Choosing Yourself

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Speaker 1 Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.

Speaker 1 It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry.

Speaker 1 And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Speaker 1 Barely fucking famous. We're back with Kristen.

Speaker 1 And I, Kale Lowry, your favorite villain, decided that I would break up these author interviews because I know that Book Talk and Book Club is not everybody's champ.

Speaker 1 So Kristen and I are back for a personal update, a fun update. And before I got on this fucking recording, I found out that y'all sold out Columbus, Ohio's live podcast show.
So I'm shitting my pants.

Speaker 1 And that may or may not be factual.

Speaker 1 So you guys already know how my bowels move. And when I get excited or worked up, things come out.
So Kristen, thank you so much for joining us on Barely Fucking Famous.

Speaker 2 Hello, ma'am. I'm very excited for you.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm excited as well because before this recording, before I told Kristen about Columbus selling out, which normally Kristen is the one giving me the news,

Speaker 1 I just like was freaking out. So I went on the website and I was like, let me just see like if I could put in like two tickets to see if it was like available or whatever.

Speaker 1 And it said two tickets couldn't work, but one could work. And then I refreshed the page and it said no tickets available.
So I was like, wait, what? Is this like true?

Speaker 1 But then before that, Kristen and I were on a meeting with a special guest for Philadelphia's show on October 9th. And we had a really good, it was a fun meeting.
I feel like it was creative.

Speaker 1 It was fun. It was a good catch up.
And I'm excited for that show specifically. And then Kristen told me that the cops showed up at her house looking for someone that absolutely does not live there.

Speaker 1 and it's not the first time. So give me a personal update before I give you a personal update.

Speaker 2 Evidently, people that don't live at my house just really like to use my address.

Speaker 1 And get arrested.

Speaker 2 Get arrested, not pay fines, commit crimes, do all kinds of things. So that was my second encounter with, I think they call it a constable,

Speaker 2 letting me know that someone used my address. And that if I've heard from said person,

Speaker 2 they have a warrant out for their arrest.

Speaker 2 So yeah, nothing like a good knock on the door at, you know, 1.30 in the afternoon to really get your day going.

Speaker 1 Well, so there's two things that I have to say about this. Number one is

Speaker 1 why did they think they could find said person at 1.30 in the afternoon? Because I would say most people, most sane

Speaker 1 people are probably at work or if they work the night shift, they would be sleeping. So unless they're...
It just so happens to be their day off, why would someone be home at 1.30 in the afternoon?

Speaker 2 That's a really good question.

Speaker 1 Truly, you'd think that they would come like at night after five or like

Speaker 1 morning. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The second question I have surrounding this entire situation is:

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 did you know that you could use somebody else's address? Because I should be putting other people's addresses on everything so that people can't find me in the event that I need to be arrested.

Speaker 2 Could you first, I didn't because I was under the impression this whole time that they have just like a way of looking up where you live.

Speaker 2 I don't know why I didn't think about this because I specifically have one person that does use my address, but they lived here before and I know that. So, like,

Speaker 1 right. And their family.
So, like, you know ahead of time that it's possible that if they were to commit a crime, they could come looking at your residence. Right.
So, like,

Speaker 2 I would expect that one. I would not expect ones that have never actually lived with me in my home.

Speaker 1 I could picture. So, when I built this house, the address never originally came up on like deliveries, like UPS, FedEx, Amazon, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 And so, even still, because Elijah and I share a driveway, sometimes packages still get like Amazon drivers for some reason, specifically Amazon, not anyone else, specifically Amazon, does not look for the correct driveway.

Speaker 1 Okay. And so, sometimes packages don't even end up on Elijah's forge.
They end up at the shed or the drop, the garage.

Speaker 1 But anyway, I could see if a cop or a constable or something showed up to Elijah's house because we share a driveway and so it might be confusing.

Speaker 1 This one might not show up on an on a map or whatever. But I mean, that was truly creative on that person's

Speaker 1 front. You know what I mean? Ghost creative on front.
Creative anxiety.

Speaker 2 Creative.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I mean, he wanted to keep you on your toes and he wanted to make sure that you got you had to shit yourself before he shot himself for the arrest warrant.

Speaker 2 For me, I'm just like, I don't actually know why I panicked so hard because, like, I know I haven't done shit wrong, but cops showing up at your door, like unsettling. I don't, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 But I instantly was thinking about every transgression I've ever had in my life. Like,

Speaker 2 am I in big, big trouble?

Speaker 1 Or like, what?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 you probably

Speaker 1 failed to pay Easy Pass or something.

Speaker 2 Said person who they came for has failed to do that as well.

Speaker 1 Okay. So I wish them the best of luck.
Truly, I hope 2025 gets better for that person. And I hope that

Speaker 1 may the, what is the, may the odds be ever in your favor.

Speaker 1 Truly.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 So personal updates. I truly don't have any outside of the kids started school.
Isaac went to high school, which I talked about on Baby Mama's podcast.

Speaker 1 Isaac has absolutely loved these first two weeks of high school, which has been fantastic.

Speaker 1 Lincoln, Lux, and Creed are all playing soccer. And I'm going on fucking tour, which is crazy.
And you're going to be with me every step of the way, which I'm looking forward to.

Speaker 1 I just have my person. You know what I mean? Like, yours might be your husband,

Speaker 1 you're mine. So

Speaker 1 I've been having a good time with that.

Speaker 1 I've had some really good interviews on this podcast lately that I've been really thankful that, you know, some of these big-time authors are giving me a chance and they're coming on my podcast.

Speaker 1 So that's been really fun.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 first stop after this will be Columbus, Ohio.

Speaker 2 Well, technically first stop after this is Philadelphia tonight.

Speaker 1 Right. So we're going to, Kristen and I are going to suss out a podcast show in Philadelphia because it's a big influencer on TikTok and he has a podcast.
So I was like, oh my God, I saw this.

Speaker 1 And I was like, I have no fucking clue what I'm doing when it comes to podcasting live. I've never done it.
I've only seen one.

Speaker 1 I did have tickets to see the canceled podcast before Tiana and Brooke broke up.

Speaker 1 And I was getting ready to leave my house, literally sitting in this exact seat. I was ready to go.
I was texting my friend Zach who got us the tickets. And I was like, what is the parking situation?

Speaker 1 Because he had gotten there before me. And I said, what is the parking situation? And it was a torrential downpour.

Speaker 1 So when he told me that I'd have to walk two blocks in the rain, I said, absolutely not. I'll catch y'all next time.
I'm not coming. So I didn't get to see Brooke and Tana at the DC show.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 so I just don't know what to expect. Like, I don't know.
I have a vision in my head for how life, how I want my life podcast to go, but I just don't know how, one, how to bring it to fruition.

Speaker 1 I've never done it before. And two, like, what are people's expectations? Because I don't want to let anyone down.
And so I am nervous. So.

Speaker 1 I texted Kristen and I was like, hey, let's go to this podcast show in Philly so we can kind of suss it out and see like what they do. And I think it would give me a little bit of peace of mind.

Speaker 1 And he's also reached out to me prior to this asking if I would ever come on his podcast. So I was like, we'll find out if this would be a good fit for me to go on it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like a good segue, you know? Segue.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It is. Suss out the button.

Speaker 1 I'm very excited.

Speaker 2 So that'll be, that'll be tonight. Um,

Speaker 2 so many things. First of all, I'm so, so excited for you that you're selling out all of your dates because I knew you would.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 2 so I'm very thankful that everybody in the whole podcasting community that you've built has really showed up and showed the fuck out because

Speaker 2 I didn't want to be wrong.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I was like, just I wanted to prepare myself for a worst case scenario. And I feel like I did a good job doing that.

Speaker 1 But also now it's like

Speaker 1 I just don't want to get nervous. Like I feel like I was always fine at like team mom reunions and stuff.
And it never really bothered me, but that was because there was a host.

Speaker 1 So I was not in charge of running the fucking show. Now this is my podcast and I'm in charge of running the show.
And so I think that that's where I'm struggling.

Speaker 1 And I just want it to be a good time. If nothing else, like say it's a complete shit show, as long as people walk away saying they had a good time, I don't care.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 I think no one expects anything less than a shit show. I think that's why they're coming.

Speaker 1 I hope so.

Speaker 2 I hope so. It would not be you.
It just wouldn't be you if it wasn't chaotic.

Speaker 2 So like you have that to your benefit, where people, other people out there who are doing live podcast shows might be worried about comedic timing and all these things.

Speaker 2 And for you, it's literally just like people would just expect absolute chaos the whole time. So it's really in your favor because if something goes wrong, they're not going to know it went wrong.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true. They'll know.
They'll all know. I'll know in the back of my mind.
I also,

Speaker 1 I wanted to be mindful and demure about my guesting for each show because I think that the energy energy and the vibe on stage with the co-host is going to make a big difference in how

Speaker 1 it goes.

Speaker 1 So, I'm hopeful that I picked the right people and

Speaker 1 I think it's going to be good. I think it'll be good.
I've never been to Ohio. I've never been to Houston.
Houston, Texas is my biggest show, which makes me super nervous.

Speaker 1 But enough about the podcast tour. Let's talk about other things.

Speaker 1 Kristen and I had this good conversation yesterday, and I was like, hold on, let me write this down because I need to, we need to talk about some podcast.

Speaker 1 Actually, Kristen told me it would be a podcast topic. I'm out here taking credit for something that she said.

Speaker 2 While you're looking that up,

Speaker 2 I do want to touch on,

Speaker 2 I need to know. So, like, you are in a very unique situation because you have some kids that have to get to school, right?

Speaker 2 On the first day of school, I asked you

Speaker 2 how long this routine takes.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. So, the first day of school came, Kristen, I called Kristen, or she called, I don't know.
And Kristen was like, wait, so what time did you leave your house? And what time will you be home?

Speaker 1 And then I was like,

Speaker 1 I don't really know. I never really timed it.

Speaker 2 We timed it that day. You were gone doing drop-off for two hours.
And that is literally from the time you left your doorstep to the time you arrived back at the doorstep.

Speaker 2 That is not getting everyone into the vehicle, fed, teeth brushed. That's not any of that stuff because that was too much for my brain to compute, truly.
But it was two hours.

Speaker 2 So then I obviously estimated the same amount of time to do pickup. So that's four hours out of your entire fucking day that you are doing drop off and pickup from school.
And I just,

Speaker 2 I know that you have a lot of kids. So I know that plays a role, but like,

Speaker 2 is it something that is basically like this when you live in a pretty, I would say, a rural area? Is that what some of this is? Or is it like, because everything is far from you.

Speaker 2 Nothing is close to you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know what? I didn't really think about that aspect of it.

Speaker 1 I think that could definitely play a part because just getting the kids to school is like a 15-minute drive for Isaac to get to school.

Speaker 1 If I was to drive Isaac to school, it would take about 30 minutes.

Speaker 1 Thankfully, he does have a bus that comes right to our driveway this year, which is nice because he's going to a new high school.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I just want to say that for the people that do not have flexible schedules and who are parents, whether it's one kid or five children, like you, I'm giving you all the credit in the world because four hours to get my kids where they need to be.

Speaker 1 It's not, like, I realize how blessed I am to be able to do that because some people that have to be to work at eight or nine or whatever, six, seven in the morning, and are not able to send their kids off to school or they're not able to get off work to go pick them up.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't want this to come across as like tone deaf or out of touch because I truly do realize how blessed I am, but it puts things into perspective for me that, like, I truly don't know how people do it.

Speaker 1 Like, the workday is absolutely not conducive to people who work night shift or that work a traditional eight to four or nine to five job.

Speaker 1 Because my girlfriend, Emily, you guys know her from Book Club. You've seen her on my Patreon, my Instagram.
She is a single mom of four kids. She's a teacher.

Speaker 1 She has to send her kids to before care to get on the bus to go to school because she's not able to get her kids to school or drive them to school or get them on a bus because it's just not working out.

Speaker 1 And she's a teacher in the district.

Speaker 2 And that's kind of what I was getting at. When I took a look and was like, four hours out of your day, you do have the flexible schedule to like make accommodations for that.

Speaker 2 I'm thinking of regular people who don't have that luxury. It's like, what does everybody do outside of have to pay for before care and aftercare?

Speaker 2 Or do they get help from family members that are maybe retired, like grandparents or something that help them get their kids? Like, what does that look like for the everyday family?

Speaker 2 Because the workdays are not conducive to that, especially when people, I think, have a now that people are, especially are a lot of them are back to the office.

Speaker 2 I think the average commute is like 45 minutes to an hour. I'm pretty sure that's your average commute.

Speaker 1 Well, so I have a really good relationship with Elijah's aunt, and she texts me yesterday. We were texting about something completely unrelated.

Speaker 1 But just to put this into perspective for you, she's not on social media in any way, shape, or form. So she is, for lack of better words, like she lives a very normal lifestyle.

Speaker 1 So we were texting about something. And just for clarity, Elisha's aunt, she has twin girls that are Lincoln's age.
So, and she works a traditional job, fairly normal hours, like fairly.

Speaker 1 I mean, give or take. I don't know what their morning schedule looks like.
I don't know if she takes them. I don't know if they get the bus.
Like, I don't know any of that.

Speaker 1 But she texted me and was like,

Speaker 1 I'll text you when I get home from work. Okay.
That was at 5.30 5:30 p.m.

Speaker 1 She texted me again at 6:30 and said, I still didn't leave work yet.

Speaker 1 So, just

Speaker 1 trying to wrap my head around that is like

Speaker 1 we need to do better for our moms, parents, caregivers, because this is not okay.

Speaker 1 I realized even before soccer started last week, I'm not spending time with Rio and the twins because I'm running here and there and everywhere with my four older ones and, you know, trying to get stuff done.

Speaker 1 And I really thought about this last night when I put Rio to bed. Was like,

Speaker 1 I feel like I have a very flexible schedule and I'm still not able to spend time with my younger babies because I put so much into into my four older ones.

Speaker 1 But what about the people who are working everyday jobs, they're working traditional jobs, traditional hours, or somewhere in the realm of like traditional normal hours.

Speaker 1 They're not seeing their kids, their only kids, right? Like, so I'm spending a lot of time with my four oldest and I'm missing out on a lot with my three youngest.

Speaker 1 But we'll just say that these people have two or three kids and those are their only kids. They're not seeing them because they're fucking working until God knows what fucking hour.

Speaker 1 If the kids come home from school, get home from school around four o'clock, anywhere between three and five, depending on the aftercare situation, by the time they're doing dinner or even doing sports and all of that, they're not even getting to see their kids until the fucking weekend.

Speaker 2 No, 1000%. And then what happens on the weekend when you, especially if you're only working one job, right? And you don't have to work weekends for that job.

Speaker 2 So many people are out here working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. Your weekends are gone at that point.

Speaker 2 But weekends, you have probably, if your kids are in sports, some type of sports situation, birthday parties, and then all of the actual life shit that you have to do, grocery shopping, cleaning, laundry, all of that that builds up throughout the entire week, you have to get that done in those two days in those two days.

Speaker 2 So like the weekends aren't even weekending. And I know someone whose husband works as a mechanic and he

Speaker 2 wasn't getting home till like seven, seven thirty at night. And she was like

Speaker 2 complain, not complaining about it, but she was very upset. She's like, you're not even seeing your kids an hour a day.

Speaker 1 But what is the solution? Because if he was to cut back his hours at work, that's a loss of income. Yep.

Speaker 2 And that's the other side of it. And it's hard.
It's just not

Speaker 2 nothing about our society is

Speaker 2 family focused or family friendly at all.

Speaker 1 And I hate to even go to the point where it's like, well, nobody told you to have all these kids, right? Like nobody told you to have a child, right?

Speaker 1 But there's also the unspoken and sometimes spoken societal pressure to have children like how many times since you've been married have people pressured you to have kids but they're not thinking about the bigger picture things right like look at you and corey's schedule like what would that look like for you guys to have kids like do you even know i mean for i i have a generalized concept in my head do i know if it's 100 accurate obviously not but when I can envision it now more than I could envision it when he was on night shift.

Speaker 2 And that's why I was so like, we're not doing this. And I would have people be like, oh, but you'd be fine.
Because my, the famous thing that gets said to me is, oh, but you work from home.

Speaker 1 No, because here, that's a whole other, I've said this on baby mamas recently.

Speaker 1 I'm actively looking and seeking out a space outside of my house because working from home with children, yes, I do have help right outside these four walls, right in this office, right?

Speaker 1 Like I have help here at the house. Every time one of my twins cries, it stresses, like you, I don't know if people can see it when I'm podcasting.

Speaker 1 I don't know if they can hear it when I'm podcasting. It stresses me out, not because I think that she's not doing a good job.

Speaker 1 I absolutely love her and I think she's doing a fantastic job, but just as a mom and having the maternal, like, and then also

Speaker 1 over the summer, you saw it firsthand was like the knocking on the doors, the coming in the office, the not, they can hear me at through the door. Like, they want to come talk to me.

Speaker 1 They want to color in here. They promise they're going to be quiet.
They promise they're going to be good. They're not being good.
I can't

Speaker 1 work from home, I think, would stress stress me out more with children than to work outside. I don't, I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 It's a shit show, but I would get told that all the time because I would say, okay, so let's take a look at this.

Speaker 2 When Corey worked night shift, he would leave this house by 4:45, 5 o'clock at the latest. He would not,

Speaker 2 no, no, P.M.

Speaker 1 P.M.

Speaker 2 He would not necessarily get home until seven o'clock in the morning the next morning.

Speaker 2 He was then sleeping. He would literally come home and get his ass in bed and go to sleep.

Speaker 2 He would not wake up a lot of the time until probably two, three o'clock in the afternoon because he's just, you're not getting a restful sleep at that time. Let's think about it.

Speaker 2 I have neighbors that have kids that are not in school. They're outside.
They're yelling. They're screaming.
They're doing all their things. Like, it's normal life.

Speaker 2 I can't tell someone, like, oh, make your kids be quiet between the hours of 7 a.m. and 2 p.m.
Like, no.

Speaker 1 Oh, you can't? Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, I can't, I can't do that.

Speaker 2 So he would be be waking up, not restful, sleep, the whole thing. He'd get up.
And then it's like, got to make dinner. And then I'm off to work again.

Speaker 2 I would literally look people dead in the face and I would say, how the fuck do you think that would work with a baby? Oh, well, like when they're small, like you'd be fine.

Speaker 2 Like, okay, so I would look at my schedule at that point.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So I get up for work between six and six thirty every single day. And I start work upon hitting the ground.
I walk into my office and I start working.

Speaker 2 There are times where I don't leave this office until nine, 10 o'clock at night. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, but just take care of a baby while that's going on. It's not that hard.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Then

Speaker 2 let me not sleep all night long because Corey's at work and someone has to take care of a baby at night.

Speaker 2 You can't just like shut them off at nighttime and then get up and do it all over again the next day.

Speaker 2 I did not get married to put up with the bullshit of marriage because yes, there's ups and downs to every decision you make, including marriage.

Speaker 2 I did not get married to be a single mom.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So that was never on the table for me. I didn't give a shit what kind of candies and roses people wanted to try to paint me.
No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that insane. Corey's sister, bless her.

Speaker 2 She works from home like two days a week and she has watched Miles the entire time since he was born at home those two days while working. I have no idea how she does it.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 That's not something that I'm

Speaker 2 interested in trying.

Speaker 2 I can see it.

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 2 with him being back, like on days, I can see it. But he still doesn't get home until, depending on the day,

Speaker 2 between 4:30 and 6:30 at night. And then he's up and out the door by 5-something in the morning.

Speaker 1 I felt so bad when Matt came to visit to go crabbing and like babysit and stuff. I don't think that he was fully prepared for what he was signing up for because you don't get a break.

Speaker 1 Like I, he was staying at my house, and like, we were having work to do, but then also, as soon as we were done, like, I still had to be a mom.

Speaker 1 I still very much had to be present for my children while he was here. And so, I feel like

Speaker 1 all of these things that we are required to do in order to maintain the relationships that we have, like, specifically with our partners, too.

Speaker 1 Like, not only do you need to spend time as a family, everybody collectively, but you also need to spend time. And you know, this, everybody knows this about me.

Speaker 1 I very much much prioritize spending individual time with my kids. So, I also have to prioritize that.
I also have to prioritize alone time with my partner.

Speaker 1 And there's just so much, I mean, that alone is

Speaker 1 time consuming. And there's, you have to figure that out.

Speaker 1 And then, if you take time off of work to spend time with one of the kids, then it's pulling money out of the finances to provide for said family.

Speaker 1 And then, um, you know, just making it's just the pressures of being a human being, just in general, it doesn't matter like what walk of life like is insane.

Speaker 2 No, when you really break it down like that, it's like most people, I would say, when they start having kids, everything else goes like the priority list changes, right?

Speaker 2 So it's like kids become the priority, then potentially partner if you even have anything left to give. And then you're way down here.

Speaker 2 And then if you ever decide to switch out yourself for one of these two, even for a day, you're selfish. You're an asshole.
You're the worst mom in the world. And you're a terrible terrible partner.

Speaker 1 1000%.

Speaker 1 Actually, we had you and I were on a meeting yesterday, and the person, the person we were having the meeting with was like, Kayla, it's okay if you can't go entertain other people, like your friendships, like maintain other friendships when you have seven kids.

Speaker 1 And it's like, but it's not. Like, I get what you're saying.
I understood what she was saying,

Speaker 1 but I also was like, but you're,

Speaker 1 I can't fill seven kids' cups without filling my own cup.

Speaker 1 And without, and then also Elijah and i can't as a team fill seven cups without filling each other's cups there too so like no it's like yeah i get it on a friend level but like away from my kids i have to fill kale's cup not as a partner not as a mom not as you know a host none of that and so i just i don't know i think that the whole society and like daycare and things like i follow um this woman named Paige on social media and she also was talking about I think she said she lives in like Maine or Massachusetts or something.

Speaker 1 And she was talking about how much she pays in childcare. And for she was talking about cutoff babies.

Speaker 1 So I think that Lux would be the perfect example of a cut, a cutoff baby. He just made the cutoff.

Speaker 1 Well, he just missed the cutoff to start kindergarten a year early.

Speaker 2 Or he's like me.

Speaker 1 So, no, no, no, because you're October. So he's not like you.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 should have been in the grade lower than the one I was in.

Speaker 1 Okay. So the way it works here is August 31st.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 Lux was born August 5th. So he is the youngest in his class.
So all of his peers in his class are almost a year older.

Speaker 1 But then like

Speaker 1 I'll technically pay more money, I guess, for.

Speaker 1 the twins because they're October. So they're going to go to preschool.
I'll have to pay for that full year. and she was kind of putting it into perspective where like

Speaker 1 where she lives it's like around twenty thousand dollars for one kid to go that additional year and it's like

Speaker 1 so society wants us to have kids but does not want to help us maintain a lifestyle that is suitable and convenient to like make this like these big families go around I've seen people talk recently about the four-day work week, right?

Speaker 2 Like how some businesses are trying to do like adopt a four-way four-day work week model which all sounded great and good because i know you and i briefly like talked about it probably privately like oh that sounds good probably like a year year and a half ago

Speaker 2 and they kind of put something into perspective for me and they were like just so y'all know we're working a four day work week here but you're fitting five days of work now into four into four no it's not actually any better no it's not It's not any better.

Speaker 1 It's, it's really not.

Speaker 1 And then like, to your point, it's like, it ends up not being like an actual weekend, like a three-day weekend, because you're still having to fit all of these things into two days.

Speaker 1 So now you have, yeah, you have an extra day, but like, can you do anything on that extra day, or are you spreading out your chores into three days versus two days?

Speaker 2 I don't even know what that looks like, and I don't, I don't even know what the solution is. People are always like, you know, I say it all the time, be solution-oriented.

Speaker 2 I don't even know what a solution to this is because there is not so many aspects that would have to change simultaneously to make anybody stand a chance.

Speaker 2 It's like, no wonder mental health crisis rates are like the highest they've ever been. And just,

Speaker 2 it's insane. It's so insane.

Speaker 1 Well, we say all of this to say that anyone that is working from home with children or without children, truly,

Speaker 1 some, anyone that is in a relationship and being pressured to have children and doesn't know where, if they want them or if they want them anytime soon, like all of you guys, and people that have traditional jobs or really non-traditional jobs that have kids and are just trying to make things work, like you have all the kudos from me.

Speaker 1 It's not fucking easy. I have help and it's not fucking easy.
So I see you. I remember what that was like.
I understand what that was like. But you guys are, you get all the kudos from me.

Speaker 1 And Kristen, I'm sorry that you are going to get it both ways because right now you're being pressured to have kids.

Speaker 1 And then when you have kids, you're going to be struggling to figure out how to make that work for your schedules, who, which your schedules are so weird.

Speaker 1 And like me, you, every, every work trip I'm on, you're on it. So like when you have kids,

Speaker 1 what the fuck are you going to do? Yeah. Your job.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Oh, God, please, for the love of God.

Speaker 2 We might be, we might be carting a small baby around.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I mean, I did that for the longest time.
I took looks every fucking where that I went. So,

Speaker 1 I mean, we, we make it work. But also, yesterday, Kristen and I started having a really good conversation about

Speaker 1 just romantic relationships in general. So, no kids necessarily in this, I mean,

Speaker 1 This isn't necessarily about the kids that are involved, right? But there's a lot of,

Speaker 1 I get a lot of backlash for leaving the relationships I'm in when they no longer

Speaker 1 fit for me, when they're no longer a fit. When I start growing out of them, I leave them.
And I think that so many people have this mentality that they like need to stick it out.

Speaker 1 They have to listen to their vows. And like, I do get that to a certain point.
But then also, like, when it no longer fits, it no longer works.

Speaker 1 And I'm not going through two, three, four years of this work to try to potentially have another happy five years. Like, that's just not what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 And so, Kristen recently talked to someone who

Speaker 1 sort of brought this conversation up. And Kristen said that I'm probably one of the only people that actually leaves the relationships when I'm not happy anymore.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like, out of everyone I know, and I had that realization yesterday when I was talking to this person about their situation.
And I was like, I literally only know one person

Speaker 1 who

Speaker 2 has chosen themselves and their happiness and not just like sat in a a relationship that was going nowhere. And I just, it made me think about it because I'm like, it wasn't easy for you.

Speaker 2 Like, it wasn't easy. I think people make the assumption of, oh, it's just easy for her to leave.

Speaker 2 No, like you went through hell multiple times to choose yourself. And I think that a lot of people would say that's a selfish decision.

Speaker 2 And I hate the fact that a connotation with the word selfish is always negative. It is okay to be fucking selfish when you need to be selfish.

Speaker 2 There are times and situations because at the end of the day, I look at the situations that you were in that you decided to leave in the relationships.

Speaker 2 And if you hadn't left, that would have been at the detriment of your kids.

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Speaker 1 Well, I think that is a big misconception, too, is that people are like, well, why wouldn't you try to stay to work it out with your children's father?

Speaker 1 And the thing is that while I was in the relationship, I was trying or not trying, right?

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 I, again, I'm not going to stay with my children's father for two, three, four years if it's not fucking working to maybe

Speaker 1 have it work at the end of the two, three, four, five, six years. Like, why am I going to stay beyond that? You know what I mean? So I think that's like,

Speaker 1 I don't want to model unhealthy relationships for my kids. And yes, with that being said, I have also modeled leave when it's not working and be with somebody else.
So that's not great either.

Speaker 1 But like,

Speaker 1 what is the lesser of the two evils? You want to stay in a relationship with their dad or stepdad that is absolutely unhealthy. It's unhinged.
You never know what you're going to get.

Speaker 1 You don't know what mood we're going to be in. or leave it and potentially be with another person.

Speaker 1 And they either might get to know them in a way that they love them, or they might not get to know them at all. And they still have a relationship with their own biological father.

Speaker 1 I'm going to go the second route for myself.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I can appreciate it because I think that it's just not, it's not talked about if people are choosing to do that

Speaker 2 because it's looked down upon, and I don't understand why. Like, I took the same vows that you and Javi took.

Speaker 2 Okay, so it's like, I took the same ones.

Speaker 2 What does it bother me as a married person if you decide down the road this isn't working and you decided to choose yourself? Why am I casting judgment?

Speaker 2 Because I'm choosing to potentially stay in a situation that maybe I'm not actually happy in to uphold something I said X amount of years ago. And you're choosing happiness.

Speaker 2 What's why am I pissed about that?

Speaker 1 Because, and this, I wrote this down because we were having this conversation yesterday. I really think that this is part of it.
So I wrote down that,

Speaker 1 obviously, I know this is easier said than done. So for anyone that's listening to this podcast episode, like Kale is so fucking delusional, I'm not.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Because let's not forget that I left Joe when I had nothing, right? Like I had literally nothing. I stayed at a homeless shelter and they never showed that on TMOM.

Speaker 1 I was literally checked into a homeless shelter before I moved in with Susie.

Speaker 1 So I was at the homeless shelter. I had nothing.
Let's just, I want that to sink it. I left when I had nothing.

Speaker 1 Actually leaving the relationships when you realize that you're unhappy, right?

Speaker 1 And like maybe you've worked, you you put an expiration date on it and you're like, I've worked at this for a year or two years or three years. It's still not working.
I'm leaving.

Speaker 1 Get your fucking ducks in a row. That is the biggest thing.

Speaker 1 It's like, if you feel like you're in a relationship that is not working and it's probably not going to work out and you feel like you're women silently leave, right?

Speaker 1 So we leave before we actually leave.

Speaker 1 You check out before you leave. Get your ducks in a row during this time.
And I know it's easier said than done, right?

Speaker 1 But hold yourself accountable because once you get out, you do deserve to be fucking happy. Kids deserve happy parents and life is too short to stay in these relationships that are just convenient.

Speaker 1 And I think what happens to your point is that people are staying in these relationships because they don't feel like they feel stuck. They don't feel like they have a way out.

Speaker 1 They don't feel like they have the means to do what they have to do.

Speaker 1 But like as a 17-year-old teenager, I did what I stayed in the homeless shelter with Isaac with me, like on my hips, slept in the same bed in the homeless shelter, right? Like.

Speaker 1 There are resources. You have to be proactive and hold yourself accountable to go fucking locate them.
And again, I know it's easier said than done, but like I did it.

Speaker 1 And so I know that it can happen. And no, it's not ideal to take two, three, four kids to go stay in a homeless shelter.
I know that.

Speaker 1 But like if you're, if you're already staying in a relationship where you're mentally checked the fuck out and you're staying in for years after you've checked out, then why are you not getting your ducks in a row during that time?

Speaker 1 And that's why I think that people hate me for it because I think subconsciously,

Speaker 1 They also want to get out and they just didn't for whatever reason they have.

Speaker 2 Misery loves company, right? So it's like, you know, people see you make a decision that they

Speaker 2 probably envy, might envy to some degree.

Speaker 2 Obviously, they're going to, it's easier to look down on you than it is to resonate and be like, damn, like I can actually do that too, and use it as an inspiration.

Speaker 2 I feel like, you know, people get stuck, and we frequently see it with women more so than men, because let's not forget, pay difference. It still exists.

Speaker 2 Also, who is usually the primary parent?

Speaker 1 Women.

Speaker 2 So we usually see that. And

Speaker 2 it's not a fair playing field out there. I don't care what anybody wants to tell me.
I promise it's not a fair playing field.

Speaker 2 So we have a lot of women that come out of work, don't have their own finances. Everything is through the husband.
And it's like basically being like financially held hostage in a situation.

Speaker 2 And I think part of it too is like nobody wants to feel,

Speaker 2 no one wants to feel uncomfortable and have to go backwards in life. That's just not natural.
Everybody wants to progress, progress forwards.

Speaker 2 So I think people probably hear, could hear you say, like, I did the whole, I had to go to a homeless shelter to basically start my shit over again to get to where I needed to be.

Speaker 2 People probably at, we'll just say our ages in our 30s are like, I would never fucking do that.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, then stay uncomfortable for the rest of your life then, because I'm not. I would rather be so fucking uncomfortable for a year or two years of my life for the long.

Speaker 1 I always try to think big picture because when I was 18 years old and I had left Joe, I think at this time I was already dating Jordan.

Speaker 1 Maybe my cousin looked at me and she said, Don't ever leave yourself or put yourself in a position where you're relying on a man.

Speaker 1 You need to know that you can support yourself and your children if he was to wake up and leave you tomorrow.

Speaker 1 If he was just to leave, and I had already left Joe at that point, but I never wanted to be back in a position where I had to go stay at a homeless shelter, right? Like, I get it.

Speaker 1 You, you marry a man, he might make good enough money, or it just makes sense financially for you not to go to work, right? Like, you don't, it just makes sense.

Speaker 1 The second that that child goes to kindergarten, I need you to go get a part-time job.

Speaker 1 And it might feel like you're walking backwards because you're like, I'm in this relationship where I don't actually have to work and I'm comfortable and it's convenient and I don't really have to put myself out of the comfort zone.

Speaker 1 I don't really care. Go get a fucking part-time job because that is going to set you up.
You may never need it.

Speaker 1 You may never end up leaving, but at least you are never going to be in a position where you can't financially provide for yourself. And like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I just, I, I don't know if this mentality is going to be hard for people to understand. And they're going to be like, Kale, you're so out of touch.
But like, this is where I came from.

Speaker 1 I was built off survival. So never in my wildest dream.
Why do you think that I looked for the opportunity with T-Ma, right? Like I was built to survive. I was not built to thrive.

Speaker 1 So immediately when I found out I was pregnant and I saw this on the TV, why I've never in my life went on mtv.com prior to that, but I saw this and I was like, oh my God, I'm already pregnant.

Speaker 1 Let me tell my story somehow. And I ended up getting picked, right? Like survival made me do that.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 when it was time for me to leave Joe's house and I realized that that was not working and it was, it was actually a lot more toxic than anyone was showing on TV.

Speaker 1 It wasn't always like, yeah, obviously Joe's parents did what they could for me, but it was a lot more toxic behind the scenes that nobody saw. It was time for me to get the fuck out.

Speaker 1 And I did that on my own, right? Like my cousin was like, You need to get the fuck out of this situation and we're going to figure this out.

Speaker 1 And so she didn't financially help me in any way, shape, or form. You know what I mean? But she was like, you need to look for the resources.
You have to do the work yourself.

Speaker 2 Definitely. And I think there's a sense of accomplishment that probably comes with that too.
Right. So I think that's a huge thing.
I just, I,

Speaker 2 it makes me so sad when I hear people, even in my personal life, say, like, you know, basically, I'm not happy in this, but I'm stuck. I'm not happy, but I'm sitting here.

Speaker 1 When people are like, I'm just going to stay for, you know, until the kids graduate.

Speaker 1 What is the, because it's convenient. So you're going to, you're going to sacrifice.
We'll say if a kid is 10 years old, you're going to sacrifice eight to 10 years of your life right now

Speaker 1 to potentially leave. And then try to make yourself happy after that.

Speaker 2 Well, and it's probably harder the older you get.

Speaker 1 Because it's convenient. You've already stuck it out that long.
You might as well keep going at that point.

Speaker 2 And I think that there's so many people who are still out here married out of convenience at, you know, 50, 60 years old.

Speaker 2 And we're congratulating people on, oh my God, you've been married for X amount of time.

Speaker 2 It's like, I would rather look at a couple that's been married for five years and truly thriving and like actively choosing and knowing that they want to be together than applaud someone for having 50 years of marriage and they've both had side bitches the whole time and can't stand each other.

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 1 side bitches is crazy, but you know what happens. So, like, I just don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I think that, and what's so funny too is like when people look at the grand scheme of like all my relationships that have played out, right?

Speaker 1 Like, that people know about, they're like, okay, oh, is the common denominator, or like, they never stick around. I'm, I just want to reiterate: the OGs already know.
I'm the one that leaves.

Speaker 1 I realize it's not working. I'm the one that is like, we can't do this.
And I get the fuck out. I also just think that like

Speaker 1 just because I have failed relationships doesn't mean that I was the only problem too.

Speaker 2 It takes two to tango.

Speaker 1 It does. It absolutely does.

Speaker 2 How I feel. I also wonder, in your experience, because you've left several relationships,

Speaker 2 most of them have had kids involved, right? Like, that's just what it is.

Speaker 2 Have you noticed that they're actually happier kids when you're out of these bad relationships?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would say so because

Speaker 1 I'll use Chris as an example here.

Speaker 1 And luckily that ended before the kids got too old. But it was a constant like Lux was always asking where his dad was.

Speaker 1 And so I thought we were together. I don't know if we ever actually were.

Speaker 1 I thought we were. We had two kids together.
Like I thought we were together.

Speaker 1 And so it was one of those things where it's like

Speaker 1 you're a child under the impression that your parents are together, but they don't live together, but they're actually always fighting. You never know what mood you're going to get.

Speaker 1 Are you asking where your dad is because you know that we were arguing or were you asking where your dad is because you don't understand like this whole thing?

Speaker 1 And so I think now that we have separated completely and never look back in four years.

Speaker 1 The kids know they have more stability that way where they know they're going to Chris's house for X amount of time. They They know they're coming to my house for X amount of time.

Speaker 1 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 And so, I think that with the stability and the structure of that, and obviously, that doesn't apply to people who have really unhealthy co-parenting and who use their kids as pawns.

Speaker 1 So, I think that, um,

Speaker 1 like I've seen comments from people saying that, like,

Speaker 1 I've used my kids as pawns or like people use their kids as pawns, but I think that that's just like a buzzword. Pawn is a buzzword.
Like, I don't,

Speaker 1 what I mean by that is like

Speaker 1 actively holding your child away from them for no reason or because you don't like their girlfriend. Like, that's using your kid as a pawn, right? Like, that's like

Speaker 1 now my kids are look, like, they know the structure. So, we have Chris and I are probably one of the more unhealthy ones, but there is structure and stability in what we have so far.

Speaker 1 Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it does to me because I feel like

Speaker 2 you and him together in your communication might be

Speaker 2 i'm not gonna say might be that's lying is not good no it's absolutely toxic communication there is toxic it's not it literally doesn't help anything but the structure you guys independently give your kids is healthy And the kids are happier because they know, okay, they're going to their dad's house on these days.

Speaker 1 They know, I mean, I said it to you the other day. Like, I know that when the kids kids go over there, they're, they have, you know, their clothes, their shoes.

Speaker 1 Like, I know that they're, they're okay.

Speaker 1 And so in that way, I think that the kids are a lot happier. Now, if Chris and I had stayed together and kept doing what we were doing and it clearly wasn't working and I decided to stay for the kids.

Speaker 1 The kids are like, where's my dad? I think my parents are together, but are they? Are they not? Like, they wouldn't know what the fuck is going on.

Speaker 1 And so I think just like subconsciously, that has to be a weight off of a child's shoulders to know that they're not walking on eggshells, not knowing what is going on with their parents in the same fucking household.

Speaker 2 No, I would agree. I also wonder, and this might be

Speaker 2 a controversial opinion.

Speaker 1 You see,

Speaker 2 do you feel like

Speaker 2 how you are as a mom when you are with someone? And I'm not going to count Elijah because that's like an anomaly situation now.

Speaker 2 In all of your relationships up to Elijah, do you feel like your mothering was better alone or with a partner?

Speaker 1 I think it was better alone. I've always

Speaker 1 it's weird. I don't know because, and then like with Elijah, too, like I don't know if it's my age.
I don't know if it's because I have four other kids. Like, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 I've always just been a better mother alone. And then I also, I just

Speaker 1 Maybe it's because I was built on survival. Like, I feel like I rely on Elisha so much

Speaker 1 because he's present and active. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, because it's a healthy relationship and it's also healthy co-parenting. I think everyone, and this is speaking from someone who's not a parent, so this is just an opinion.

Speaker 2 Don't, you know, don't sue Kristen, okay?

Speaker 2 When I look at it and also see people who are not together also parenting, I feel like co-parenting is not something that's just done when you're not with the person you have a child with.

Speaker 2 I think you co-parent with someone you are together with. I think it's still co-parenting.

Speaker 1 I don't, I definitely think that the word co-parenting is misused and misplaced. I don't think that co-parenting happens when you just when you break up.

Speaker 1 I think you, when you're, especially from like, for example, like Javi and I were raised so differently and like our views were so different.

Speaker 1 I mean, everything from religion all the way down to just like our cultural differences. I think we were co-parenting in our marriage because we were so different.

Speaker 1 And so, thankfully, it never caused conflict as far as co-parenting goes. But I would agree with you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because I just look at it that way and I'm like, okay, so let's imagine Corey and I have a kid. We were raised entirely differently, you know, so like

Speaker 2 there's things that I would say,

Speaker 2 I don't agree with X, Y, and Z on your side, and he doesn't agree with X, Y, and Z on my side. And it's like, how, how

Speaker 2 I don't want to say someone has to win because that's not the correct terminology, but like

Speaker 2 some way you have to figure out how to parent.

Speaker 1 So like you have to actively like co-parent parent because

Speaker 2 unless you're magically with someone who is raised exactly the same way, has the same exact beliefs, has the same exact parenting style as you, has the same exact everything, which I think is probably few and far between.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I feel like you're probably better off when it's a little bit of differences because it's probably how you raise a well, part of how you raise a well-rounded child.

Speaker 1 For sure. I would agree with that.
I also, yeah, I would wholeheartedly agree with that.

Speaker 1 It's really interesting because I definitely think I've read certain articles just like online and things like that where they've said that co-parenting, the term co-parenting is definitely not used correctly.

Speaker 1 But we, what we know today as co-parenting is typically among exes or people who have platonic, do do platonic parenting. Um, no, you co-parent when you're in a relationship for sure.

Speaker 1 Like, absolutely.

Speaker 2 Do you feel like

Speaker 2 because I also feel like not that I don't want to say a better mom when you were alone? I don't, like, because that's not what I mean, but like

Speaker 2 I don't know. I just feel like you thrived in it more.
And is it because it's basically survival mode? You don't have choice, or like, why, for you, why do you feel like you

Speaker 2 liked that era over like partner era?

Speaker 1 Or even when I had not, when Natalie was my nanny, it was not,

Speaker 1 I've, I end up relying to, I just do better by myself. Like, I just no nanny, no partner, and I'm self-sustaining.
Like, I just do it myself because there's nobody else to fall back on.

Speaker 1 Okay. When I have someone.

Speaker 1 I don't know what it. I don't think it's like codependence.
It's just like I put all my eggs in that basket and I expect them to do as much or more than me. I don't know.
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I, to this day, I think I just parent better remember, like, if I know, for example, when Elijah was away, I sent him off on a cruise. Yeah.
Good fucking buy. I got this.
I don't need you.

Speaker 1 There's absolutely nothing, no part of my brain that is like, oh, I'll wait for Elijah.

Speaker 2 Or like,

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's just like this weird.
It's also probably like, just like a complex that I have from living in survival mode for so long that I just thrive better by myself. Like,

Speaker 1 if you were never,

Speaker 1 obviously, if you were my friend, but like, if you never worked for me, I would figure out all the things that you do, I would figure them out. But it's kind of like that with you too.

Speaker 1 Like, I know if I don't have it, you have it. It's like, I don't, and I don't like that.
And so I feel like.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't. Like, I appreciate it.
And like, obviously, when I have help with the kids, like, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 But I also know that it puts me in this place where it's like, I'm going against everything that I know. And it feels weird because then I like

Speaker 1 overdo it.

Speaker 2 Is that probably because basically because you had to rely on literally yourself and only yourself for such a long time that it's a foreign feeling and it goes against everything that you

Speaker 2 basically, I don't want to say were raised because you weren't raised. Like the way you raised yourself, essentially.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's everything, like the self-reliance is there.

Speaker 2 And then when you finally like kind of let your guard down and you let someone else like take, take some of the shit off your plate, then you're like, oh, well, if you're going to take this, like, you might as well help me out.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 you might as be, you might as well be an extension of me. Like, you're another, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's not a healthy place to be.
That's, that's for sure. It's not.

Speaker 1 But that's why I do, I was very apprehensive about moving in with Elijah and like just being with Elijah in general because giving up that independence felt really weird.

Speaker 1 And I know that it's like, I'm all or nothing sometimes. And it's not great, but we'll work on it.
Like

Speaker 2 you'll make it work. I, that's actually really interesting when you say that about our dynamic because I never really looked at it like that.

Speaker 1 Well, it's like, look at the situation with Natalie and then look at like, but what's weird is like it's only certain people.

Speaker 1 I never in a million years, in all five years that Chris and I were on and off, never relied on him in that way.

Speaker 2 Maybe you just know who you can and who you can't

Speaker 2 subconsciously.

Speaker 1 And sometimes I do it to the wrong people.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't know. That's interesting.
That's a, I wonder that that's like a therapy topic.

Speaker 1 Oh, for sure. So I'll be calling up the therapist and I'll be back in therapy in 2.5 seconds.

Speaker 2 That's, yeah, that's absolutely a therapy topic. I know you brought up Tana and Brooke when you were going to go to the canceled podcast.
I think they're back together.

Speaker 1 Oh, are they back together? Oh, thank God. Oh, thank God.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I think they are. Let me.

Speaker 1 Well, it's about fucking time. I was very upset with Tana because I obviously don't know these fucking people.

Speaker 1 I was upset with Tana because I said, you know, I don't feel like right now is the time that you should turn your back on your bestie. But like, are they besties or are they just like regular friends?

Speaker 2 That's also good. I don't know anything about.

Speaker 1 Like this segment right here is all the questions I have for Tana and Brooke because neither one of them have responded to my request for a podcast swap. Tana, is Brooke your bestie?

Speaker 1 And Brooke, is Tana your bestie? And like, what was the full reasoning? Because, like, I understand there was like some scandals and shit like that, right? But, like,

Speaker 1 y'all have both done some foul shit. So, like, and said some foul shit.
So, what was the deciding factor to remove her from the podcast? Was it just like a temporary break?

Speaker 1 Or is it, was it just like a fucking publicity stunt? Like, what was that? Because we also know that you're on tour. And so, or you're about to go on tour.

Speaker 1 So, were you just going to replace Brooke for that entire canceled tour?

Speaker 1 Or was it just like, um, okay, let's remove her from the public situation right now and then bring her back when, like, all is clear? Like, what was going on there?

Speaker 1 And then, also, why haven't you responded to my request to do a podcast walk? Because people do like me, also, and I feel like we're we could all be cool. But

Speaker 1 also, I'm not going to beg for someone who doesn't want me, so also, fuck you. But, like, I also, I love you.

Speaker 1 So, I'm in a toxic relationship, a toxic, one-sided relationship with the canceled podcast. Okay, like, truly.

Speaker 2 Um, I just pulled up an article that was ran six days ago talking about, um, so yeah, so she did appear back on the podcast and she said it says brooke schofield reveals her future at canceled podcast after you know everything that's going on she said that

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 2 oh she revealed that she is still part of canceled podcast and was filming an episode about her racist tweets

Speaker 2 oh so this says

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 2 This is just giving like background. I'm just trying to see like what.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she revealed, she revealed to TMZ that she was getting ready to film an episode for the canceled podcast to speak about the tweets. Brooks said, we are filming today.

Speaker 2 We are going to talk about it a little bit more in depth, obviously, because it's very serious. She continued, I'm still part of the tour.
I'm still part of canceled.

Speaker 2 When asked about the tweets being exposed and people not thinking Brooks' apology was not

Speaker 2 people not thinking Brooke's apology was not enough, she said, I feel like I'm doing the best that I can.

Speaker 2 She took full accountability to what she did and understands why people won't forgive her, but she's going to keep trying.

Speaker 2 So it sounds like there's going to be an episode coming out.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So further in-depth there.

Speaker 1 I'm always

Speaker 1 apprehensive to talk about anything racially charged, racially motivated, racism in general, because I never know how to address it. But I will say this: like

Speaker 1 all white people have implicit bias, every single one of us. So, and

Speaker 1 whether it really boils down to whether or not you're willing to do the work to move past that, I don't know Brooke or Tana enough to decide that for them, or like, I have no idea what they've done to do like any amount of work.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 with that being said, there will always be people who will never see

Speaker 1 beyond the racist remarks and the implicit bias.

Speaker 1 So, I just want

Speaker 1 everyone to be mindful of that. Like I think that it is something that has to be a work in progress.

Speaker 1 But even with the work in progress, there's a possibility that people won't accept the work that is being done to get them to a better place. And so I also have experienced that.

Speaker 1 And I do encourage both Brooke and Tana to read the book Small Great Things. I talked about it on Book Club.
It's fantastic.

Speaker 1 And if anyone else has any other book recommendations that talk about implicit bias, I think that the book specifically, what number one, Jody Pico said on this podcast, she said that small great things is not meant for the black or African-American audience.

Speaker 1 It is meant for the white people to learn about that. So that would be a really good place to start.

Speaker 1 And just on this topic of the racist tweets and all of the racist comments and situations that, you know, Tana and Brooke both found themselves in and I've been in in the past.

Speaker 1 If there are any recommendations for, you know, workshops or books or anything like that that we could benefit from, I want to use Brooke and Tana's situation as another reason why I need to continue to be on my own learning journey and to educate myself further on all of these topics.

Speaker 1 So if you have any book recommendations, workshops, anything like that, send them to me.

Speaker 1 I'll also share them online with other people that like other white people specifically that need to learn, but maybe Tana and Brooke will see them and it also will help them.

Speaker 2 I never even knew.

Speaker 2 I didn't know what, I was never taught about implicit bias ever until you started teaching me about it.

Speaker 1 Like I also didn't know.

Speaker 1 I also didn't know. I also did not know.
Essentially, for those of you who guys, for those of you who don't know, implicit bias is essentially like subconscious racism.

Speaker 1 You could say until you're blue in the face that you are not racist, but you have implicit bias, which stemmed from racism. And so

Speaker 1 there is so much learning that white people as a society and as just the general population, you could be,

Speaker 1 you could live in the most diverse places, but you still have implicit bias.

Speaker 1 And I think that that is something that people really need to like look up because, yeah, as a whole, you may not be racist, right?

Speaker 1 Like you might accept all walks of life, but you still have implicit bias.

Speaker 1 And that's like when I was posting about this and white people in the comment section were like saying, oh, like we have bigger fish to fry. Oh, the band-aids.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Let's just clarify that really quickly.

Speaker 2 I was so pissed off by that because even I fucking understood what you meant. And it's like, that was a direct example from the book that you read was talking about the band-aids.

Speaker 2 And when the way you explained it to me, I have never felt as stupid in my life for never even thinking about that as I did at that moment.

Speaker 1 Well, because people that didn't read the book, they knew they didn't know that the Band-Aid example came directly from the text. And that, again, that book itself was for white people, right?

Speaker 1 Like we, the Band-Aid brand, if I'm not mistaken, and this is alleged because when I googled it, I did find really old photos. So unless I'm wrong, which Bandaid brand, please don't come sue me,

Speaker 1 it used to say on the packaging, flesh colored. And so that's where the example in the text came from was, and that's implicit bias.
So maybe the person that created that wasn't thinking about

Speaker 1 people of color. Yes.
So that is implicit bias, the fact that you are not thinking about that there are other people with other skin colors.

Speaker 1 and so people were missing the entire point and i would just come in back and be like okay when you're ready for this conversation then come back because you clearly are not understanding the bigger picture like you're holding on to this one little example that i used from the book and you're not understanding um the example was literally showing you the actual bigger fucking picture and i was just like i just something

Speaker 2 that seemed so regular to me, right? I've never had to worry about what the hell color bandaid I'm wearing.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Ever in my life.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh, it's going to be freaking whatever tan, I guess, is like the

Speaker 2 color that like the shit would be. And it's like, I've never thought about it.
I'm just taking a band-aid and I'm putting it on, or it's like character ones. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm just putting it on, but never in my life. People were saying, oh, well, that doesn't match my skin color either.
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 It is closer to your fucking white skin than any shade of brown or black. That is the fucking point.
You are looking into the fucking.

Speaker 1 No shit. It's not going to match our skin tone quite exactly either.
But at the end of the day, it is closer to you and my skin color than any person of color.

Speaker 1 So I was in, and I was just like, I cannot believe this is where we are. But that really put things into perspective.
So

Speaker 1 I say all of that to say that

Speaker 1 I do think that based on what I've seen about the Brooke and Tana stuff, like I do, I do think that there's growth there, but I think that obviously that all of us, myself included, have a long way to go.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And like, I learn the basically everything I learn about racism and implicit bias, I either look up or I learn from you.

Speaker 1 And I'm also learning. So when, as soon as I learn, I tell you, because I'm like, okay, this is what it is.

Speaker 1 I actually had a really, really great conversation about racism and things like that with Elijah, his cousin, and her husband, who's Elijah's best friend. They live right here.
I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, and it was a great conversation because I

Speaker 1 want to continue learning this, right?

Speaker 1 And I think if Brooke and Tana are being genuine, I think that they also want to continue learning, but we don't want to be called ignorant and assholes and be called out for asking questions that seem probably pretty ignorant, but we don't know.

Speaker 1 So we can't learn without asking questions. And so I think that there's a fine line there too is like, how do we continue to learn?

Speaker 1 Obviously, we can read books, we can read articles, we can you know talk to people but without asking certain questions and the way that they explained it to me is all about how you the delivery and the question yeah i i mean my dad always taught me it's not about what you say it's literally about the delivery my dad taught me that since i was like very very little um

Speaker 2 and i think that goes for anything and and i would agree because

Speaker 2 there's questions that i have that i come and i ask you because i feel so dumb and i might not know the i might not

Speaker 2 you'll say that to me though you'll like you were just explaining to me when we were in New York, we were talking about braids. And I literally looked at you and I said, Okay, so what's

Speaker 2 what at what point do braids become cultural appropriation? And you broke it down for me and you were like, You can do this, this, this, and this.

Speaker 2 As a white person, you're allowed to have these types of braids. You cannot have,

Speaker 2 I don't remember what they were called. I think it was like twists, maybe

Speaker 1 faux locks.

Speaker 2 Some you were telling me something about what at that that point you're culturally appropriating.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I learned from experience and I never want to put myself, but I didn't know at the time. So I had no idea what cultural appropriation even was.

Speaker 1 So I couldn't have known that I was appropriating culture. I didn't know.
And that's not an excuse, right? Like that's not an excuse.

Speaker 1 But now I had to learn. I had to learn the hard way, unfortunately.
And so that was like not okay.

Speaker 1 But at the end of the day, like we can't grow and learn and be educated without asking questions and fucking up, but like, also, it's not an excuse, and so it's it's there's a very fine line.

Speaker 1 And so, I think that all of us need to do the work, it's not just Tana, it's not just Brooke.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, theirs came out the way that it did, or specifically, Brooke's happened the way that it happened. But

Speaker 1 we have to, we have to continue the education, we have to.

Speaker 2 No, I fully agree with you. It's so important, truly.
It's so, so important.

Speaker 1 Um, okay, I did

Speaker 1 actually have to go get looks from school,

Speaker 1 But someone, um,

Speaker 1 someone asked me about is barely fucking touring coming to the UK,

Speaker 1 and my short answer to that is that is a dream come true. So if it ever happens, I would fucking love that.
Um, I was also going to say something else about Philly, and I don't remember what it was

Speaker 1 about your tour.

Speaker 1 I have no idea.

Speaker 2 Was it about the second date?

Speaker 1 No, Okay.

Speaker 1 Don't give people ideas, Kristen.

Speaker 1 I guess the last thing I can say for now on this episode is that there are still, as of today, when I'm recording this episode, there are still tickets available for the Houston show.

Speaker 1 That is September 24th. And you can get tickets at kale lowry.com.
Just click the get tickets link and go over to get the tickets for Houston. I hope to see you there.
Kristen and I are driving from

Speaker 1 after Houston will be driving to Dallas the very next day. So we're excited about that.
Kristen's going to be there every step of the way.

Speaker 1 So, if you want to meet me and you also want to meet Kristen, just say the fucking word and I'll make it happen because Kristen is that bitch.

Speaker 1 So, I

Speaker 2 the amount of people that have messaged me being like, Are you going to be there? And I'm like, Yes,

Speaker 2 no, incognito.

Speaker 1 No, she won't be incognito. She will be there every step of the way.
So, with my meet and greet, when you meet me, you also meet Kristen. So, it's a two for one, truly.

Speaker 1 I hate you. I love you so much.
Thank you for joining this very chaotic all over the place episode of Barely Fucking Famous.

Speaker 1 And don't forget to, don't forget about Patreon because Patreon's got full episodes of Barely Famous Coffee Combos, Book Club. We do weekly book club giveaways.
We do weekly lives.

Speaker 1 We do pre-recorded episodes. I have a couple

Speaker 1 little, two little episodes coming soon.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to tell you guys what they are, but go on, head over to the Patreon to find out what those are because I think there's one coming either tomorrow or next week.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure, but they're coming very, very soon. And

Speaker 1 what else?

Speaker 2 Go buy tickets to the tour.

Speaker 1 Go buy tickets to Houston.

Speaker 2 And tell Kale that she needs to add a second Philly date.

Speaker 1 Absolutely not. Love y'all so much.
See ya.

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