Choosing Yourself

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Welcome to the shit show.

Things are going to get weird.

It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry.

And you're listening to Barely Famous. Barely fucking famous.
We're back with Kristen and I, Kale Lowry, your favorite villain, decided that I would break up these author interviews because I know that book talk and book club is not everybody's champ so Kristen and I are back for a personal update a fun update and before I got on this fucking recording I found out that y'all sold out Columbus Ohio's live podcast show so I'm shitting my pants and that may or may not be factual so you guys already know how my vowels move. And when I get excited or worked up, things come out.
So Kristen, thank you so much for joining us on Barely Black and Famous. Hello, ma'am.
I'm very excited for you. Well, I'm excited as well because before this recording, before I told Kristen about Columbus selling out, which normally Kristen is the one giving me the news, I just like was freaking out.
So I went on the website and I was like, let me just see like if I could put in like two tickets to see if it was like available or whatever. And it said two tickets couldn't work, but one could work.
And then I refreshed the page and it said no tickets available. So I was like, wait, what is this like true? But then before that, Kristen and I were on a meeting with a special guest for Philadelphia's show on October 9th.
And we had a really good, it was a fun meeting. I feel like it was creative.
It was fun. It was a good catch up.
And I'm excited for that show specifically. And then Kristen told me that the cops showed up at her house looking for someone that absolutely does not live there.

And it's not the first time.

So give me a personal update before I give you a personal update. Evidently, people that don't live at my house just really like to use my address.
And get arrested. Get arrested, not pay fines.
Commit crimes. Do all kinds of things.
So that was my second encounter with, I think they call it a constable um letting me know that someone used my address and that if I've heard from said person um they have a warrant out for their arrest so yeah nothing like a good knock on the door at you know 1 30 in the afternoon to really get your day going well so there's two things that I have to say this. Number one is why did they think they could find said person at 1.30 in the afternoon? Because I would say most people, most sane people are probably at work or if they work the night shift, they would be sleeping.
So unless it just so happens to be their day off, why would someone be home at 1.30 in the afternoon? That afternoon that's a really good question truly you'd think that they would come like at night after five or like first thing in the morning yeah the second question i have surrounding this entire situation is i did you know that you could use somebody else's address because i should be putting other people's addresses on everything so that people can't find me in the event that I need to be arrested. Could you? First, I didn't because I was under the impression this whole time that they have just like a way of looking up where you live.
I don't know why I didn't think about this because I specifically have one person that does use my address, but they lived here before. And

I know that. So like, right.
And their family. So like, you know, ahead of time, that it's possible that if they were to commit a crime, they could come looking at your residence, right? So like, I would expect that one.
I would not expect ones that have never actually lived with me in my home. I could picture.
So when I built this house, the address never originally came up on like deliveries, like UPS, FedEx, Amazon, stuff like that. And so even still, because Elijah and I share a driveway, sometimes packages still get like Amazon drivers for some reason, specifically Amazon, not anyone else, specifically Amazon, does not look for the correct driveway.
Okay. And so sometimes packages don't even end up on Elijah's porch.
They end up at the shed or the garage. But anyway, I could see if a cop or a constable or something showed up to Elijah's house because we share a driveway.
And so it might be confusing. This one might not show up on a map or whatever.
But, I mean, that was truly creative on that person's front. You know what I mean? It was creative.
Creative. Anxiety.
Absolutely. absolutely I mean he wanted to keep you on your toes and he wanted to make sure that you got you

had to shit yourself before he shot himself for the arrest warrant. For me, I'm just like, I don't actually know why I panicked so hard because like, I know I haven't done shit wrong, but cops showing up at your door, like unsettling.
I don't, you know what I mean? But I instantly was thinking about every transgression i've ever had in my life like am i in big big trouble or like what you know what you probably failed to pay easy pass or something said person who they came for has failed to do that as well okay so i wish them the best of luck. Truly, I hope 2025 gets better for that

person. And I hope that may the odds be ever in your favor.
Yes. Yes.
So personal updates. I truly

don't have any outside of the kids started school. Isaac went to high school, which I talked about on

Baby Mama's podcast. Isaac has absolutely loved these first two weeks of high school, which has been fantastic.
Lincoln, Lux and Creed are all playing soccer. And I'm going on fucking tour, which is crazy.
And you're going to be with me every step of the way, which I'm looking forward to. I just have my person.
You know what I mean? Like yours might be your husband, your mind. So I've been having a good time with that.
I've had some really good interviews on this podcast lately that I've been really thankful that, you know, some of these big time authors are giving me a chance and they're coming on my podcast. So that's been really fun.
And first stop after this will be Columbus, Ohio. Well, technically, first stop after this will be columbus ohio well technically first stop after this is philadelphia tonight right so we're going to kristen and i are going to suss out a podcast show in philadelphia because it's a big influencer on tiktok and he has a podcast so i was like oh my god i saw this and i was like i have no fucking clue what i'm doing when it comes to podcasting live.
I've never done it. I've only seen one.
I did have tickets to see the canceled podcast before Tana and broke up and I was getting ready to leave my house, literally sitting in this exact seat. I was ready to go.
I was texting my friend, Zach, who got us the tickets. And I was like, what is the parking situation? Because he had gotten there before me.
And I said, what is the parking situation? And it was a torrential downpour. So when he told me that I'd have to walk two blocks in the rain, I said, absolutely not.
I'll catch y'all next time. I'm not coming.
So I didn't get to see Brooke and Tana at the DC show. And so I just don't know what to expect.
I don't know. I have a vision in my head for how I want my life podcast to go.
But I just don't know how one how to bring it to fruition. I've never done it before.
And to like, what are people's expectations because they don't want to let anyone down. And so I am nervous.
So I texted Kristen and I was like, Hey, let's go to this podcast show in Philly so we can kind of suss it out and see like what they do. And I think it would give me a little bit of peace of mind.
And he's also reached out to me prior to this asking if I would ever come on his podcast. So I was like, we'll find out if this would be a good fit for me to go on it.
Yeah, like a good segue, you know, I'm very excited. So that'll be that'll be tonight.
So many things. First of all, I'm so so excited for you that you're selling out all of your dates because I knew you would um so I'm very thankful that everybody in the whole podcasting community that you've built has really showed up and showed the fuck out because I didn't want to be wrong so I was like just I wanted to prepare myself for a worst case scenario and i feel like i did a good job doing that um but also now it's like i just don't want to get nervous like i feel like i was always fine at like teen mom reunions and stuff and it never really bothered me but that was because there was a host so i was not in charge of running the fucking show now this is my podcast and i'm in charge of running the show and so i think that that's where i'm struggling um and i just wanted to be a good time if nothing else like say it's a complete shit show as long as people walk away saying they had a good time i don't care you know i think no one expects anything less than a shit show.
I think that's why they're coming. I hope so.
I hope so. It would not be you.
It just wouldn't be you if it wasn't chaotic. So like you have that to your benefit where people, other people out there who are doing live podcast shows might be worried about comedic timing and all these things.
And for you, it's literally just like people would just expect absolute chaos the whole time so it's really in your favor because if something goes wrong they're not going to know it went wrong yeah that's you'll know they'll know i'll know in the back of my mind i also um i wanted to be mindful and demure about my guesting for each show because i think that the energy and the vibe on stage with the co-host is going to make a big difference in how it goes. So I'm hopeful that I picked the right people and I think it's going to be good.
I think it'll be, I've never been to Ohio. I've never been to Houston.
Houston, Texas is my biggest show, which show which makes me super nervous but enough about the podcast tour let's talk about other things um Kristen and I had this good conversation yesterday and I was like hold on let me write this down because I need to we need to talk about some actually Kristen told me it would be a podcast topic I'm out here taking credit for something that she said um while you're looking that up I do want to touch on

I topic i'm out here taking credit for something that she said um while you're looking that up i i do want to touch on i need to know so like you are in a very unique situation because you have kids that have to get to school right on the first day of school i asked you how long this routine takes oh yeah so the first day of school came kristen i called kristen or she called i don't know kristen was like wait so what time did you leave your house and what time will you be home and then i was like i don't really know i never really timed it we timed it that day you were gone doing drop off for two hours and that is literally from the time you left your doorstep to the time you arrived back at the doorstep. That is not getting everyone into the vehicle, fed, teeth brushed.
That's not any of that stuff because that was too much for my brain to compute, truly. But it was two hours.
So then I obviously estimated the same amount of time to do pickup. So that's four hours out of your entire fucking day that you are doing drop off and pickup from school.
And I just, I know that you have a lot of kids, so I know that plays a role, but like, is it something that is basically like this when you live in a pretty, I would say a rural area? Is that what some of this is? Or is it like, because everything is far from you, nothing is close to you? Yeah you yeah you know what i didn't really think about that aspect of it i think that could definitely play a part because just getting the kids to school is like a 15 minute drive for isaac to get to school if i was to drive isaac to school it would take about 30 minutes um thankfully he does have a bus that comes right to our driveway this year which is nice because he's going to a new high school um but i just want to say that for the people that do not have flexible schedules and who are parents whether it's one kid or five children like you i'm giving you all the credit in the world because four hours to get my kids where they need to be it's not like i realize how blessed i am to be able to do that because some people that have to be to work at eight or nine or whatever six seven in the morning and are not able to send their kids off to school or they're not able to get off work to go pick them up like I I don't want this to come across as like tone deaf or out of touch because I truly do realize how blessed I am but it puts things into for me that like, I truly don't know how people do it. Like the workday is absolutely not conducive to people who work night shift or that work a traditional eight to four or nine to five job.
Because my girlfriend, Emily, you guys know her from book club. You've seen her on my Patreon, my Instagram.
She is a single mom of four kids. She's a teacher.
She has to send her kids to before care to get on the bus to go to school because she's not able to get her kids to school or drive them to school or get them on a bus because it's just not working out. And she's a teacher in the district.
And that's kind of what I was getting at when I took a look and was like four hours out of your day. You do have the flexible schedule to like make accommodations for that.
I'm thinking of regular people who don't have that luxury. It's like, what does everybody do outside of have to pay for before care and after care? Or do they get help from family members that are maybe retired, like grandparents or something that help them get their kids? Like, what does that look like for the everyday family? Because the workdays are not conducive to that, especially when people I think have a now that people are especially or a lot of them are back to the office.
I think the average commute is like 45 minutes to an hour. I'm pretty sure that's your average commute.
Well, so I have a really good relationship with Elijah's aunt and she texted me yesterday. We were texting about something completely unrelated, but just to put this into perspective for you, she's not on social media in any way, shape or form.
So she is for lack of better words, like she lives a very normal lifestyle. So we were texting about something and just for clarity, um, Elijah's aunt, she has twin girls that are Lincoln's age.
So and she works a traditional job, fairly normal hours, like fairly, I mean, give or take. I don't know what their morning schedule looks like.
I don't know if she takes them. I don't know if they get the bus.
Like, I don't know any of that. But she texted me and was like, I'll text you when I get home from work.
Okay.

That was at 5.30 p.m.

She texted me again at 6.30 and said, I still didn't leave work yet.

So just trying to wrap my head around that is like, we need to do better for our moms,

parents, caregivers, because this is not okay. I realized even before soccer started last week, I'm not spending time with Rio and the twins because I'm running here and there and everywhere with my four older ones and, you know, trying to

get stuff done. And I really thought about this last night when I put Rio to bed was like,

I feel like I have a very flexible schedule and I'm still not able to spend time with my younger

babies because I put so much into my four older ones. But what about the people who are working

Thank you. I have a very flexible schedule and I'm still not able to spend time with my younger babies because I put so much into my four older ones.

But what about the people who are working everyday jobs,

are working traditional jobs, traditional hours, or somewhere in the realm of traditional, normal hours?

They're not seeing their kids, their only kids, right?

So I'm spending a lot of time with my four oldest

and I'm missing out on a lot with my three youngest. But we'll just say that these people have two or three kids and those are their only kids.
They're not seeing them because they're fucking working until God knows what fucking hour. If the kids come home from school, get home from school around four o'clock, anywhere between three and five, depending on the aftercare situation, by time they're doing dinner or even doing sports and all of that, they're not even getting to see their kids until the fucking weekend.
No, 1000%. And then what happens on the weekend when you, especially if you're only working one job, right, and you don't have to work weekends for that job.
So many people are out here working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. Your weekends are gone at that point.
But weekends, you have probably if your kids are in sports, some type of sports situation, birthday parties, and then all of the actual life shit that you have to do, grocery shopping, cleaning, laundry, all of that, that builds up throughout the entire week. You have to get that done in those two, all of it in those two days.
So like the weekends aren't even weekending. And I know someone whose husband works as a mechanic and he wasn't getting home till

like 7- 730 at night. And she was like, not complaining about it, but she was very upset.
She's like, you're not even seeing your kids an hour a day. But what is the solution? Because if he was to cut back his hours at work, that's a loss of income.
Yep. And that's the other side of it.
It's hard. It's just not...
Nothing about our society is family-focused or family-friendly at all. And I hate to even go to the point where it's like, well, nobody told you to have all these kids, right? Nobody told you to have a child, right? But there's also the unspoken and sometimes spoken societal pressure to have children.
Like how many times since you've been married, have people pressured you to have kids, but they're not thinking about the bigger picture things, right? Like look at you and Corey's schedule. Like what would that look like for you guys to have kids? Like, do you even know? I mean, I have a generalized concept in my head.
Do I know if it's 100% accurate? Obviously not. But when I can envision it now more than I could envision it when he was on night shift.
And that's why I was so like, we're not doing this. And I would have people be like, oh, but you'd be fine.
Because the famous thing that gets said to me is, oh, but you work from home. No, because here, that's a whole other, I've said this on baby mamas recently.
I'm actively looking and seeking out a space outside of my house because working from home with children, yes, I do have help right outside these four walls, right in this office, right? Like I have help here at the house. Every time one of my twins cries, it stresses, like you, I don't know if people can see it when I'm podcasting.
I don't know if they can hear it when I'm podcasting. It stresses me out, not because I think that she's not doing a good job.
I absolutely love her. And I think she's doing a fantastic job.
But just as a mom and having the maternal and like, and then also, over the summer, you saw it firsthand was like the knocking on the doors, the coming in the office, the knock, they can hear me through the door. Like they want to come talk to me.
They want to color in here. They promise they're going to be quiet.
They promise they're going to be good. They're not being good.
I can't. Working from home, I think would stress me out more with children than to work outside.
I don't, I don't know. It's a shit show, but I would get told that all the time because I would say, okay, so let's take a look at this.
When Corey worked night shift, he would leave this house by 445, 5 o'clock at the latest. He would not- A.M.
No, no, P.M. P.M.
He would not necessarily get home until 7 o'clock in the morning the next morning. He was then sleeping.
He would literally come home and get his ass in bed and go to sleep. He would not wake up a lot of the time until probably two, three o'clock in the afternoon because he's just, you're not getting a restful sleep at that time.
Let's think about it. I have neighbors that have kids that are not in school.
They're outside. They're yelling.
They're screaming. They're doing all their things.
It's normal life. I can't't tell someone like, oh, make your kids be quiet between the hours of 7 a.m.
and 2 p.m. Like, no, you can't.
Yeah. Right.
So I'm like, I can't I can't do that. So he would be waking up, not restful sleep, the whole thing.
He'd get up and then it's like got to make dinner and then I'm off to work again. I would literally look people dead in the face and I would say, how the fuck do you think that would work with a baby? Oh, well, like when they're small, like you'd be fine.
Like, okay, so I would look at my schedule at that point. Okay.
So I get up for work between 6 and 6.30 every single day and I start work upon hitting the ground. I walk into my office and I start working.
There are times where I don't leave this office until 9, 10 o'clock at night. Yeah.
Oh, but just take care of a baby while that's going on. It's not that hard.
Okay. Then let me not sleep all night long because Corey's at work and someone has to take care of a baby at night.
You can't just like shut them off at nighttime and then get up and do it all over again the next day. I did not get married to put up with the bullshit of marriage because yes, there's ups and bounds to every decision you make, including marriage.
I did not get married to be a single mom. Right.
So that was never on the table for me. I didn't give a shit what kind of candies and roses people wanted to try to paint me no i'm not i'm not i'm not that insane cory's sister bless her she works from home like two days a week and she has watched miles the entire time since he was born at home those two days while working i have no idea how she does it i don't know that's not something that i'm interested in trying.
I can see it.

Like, with him being back like on days, I can see it, but he still doesn't get home until, depending on the day, between 4.30 and 6.30 at night. And then he's up and out the door by five something in the morning.
I felt so bad when Matt came to visit to go crabbing and like babysit and stuff. I don't think that he was fully prepared for what he was signing up for because you don't get a break.
Like I, he was staying at my house and like we were having work to do, but then also as soon as we were done, like I still had to be a mom. I still very much had to be present for my children while he was here.
And so I feel like all of these things that we are required to do in order to maintain the relationships that we have, like specifically with our partners too, like not only do you need to spend time as a family, everybody collectively, but you also need to spend time and you know this, everybody knows this about me. I very much prioritize spending individual time with my kids.
So I also have to prioritize that. I also have to prioritize alone time with my partner.
And there's just so many, that alone is time consuming and there's, you have to figure that out. And then if you take time off of work to spend time with one of the kids, then it's pulling money out of the finances to provide for said family.
And then, you know, just making it's just the pressures of being a human being just in general. It doesn't matter like what walk of life like is insane.
No, when you really break it down like that, it's like most people, I would say, when they start having kids, everything else goes like the priority list changes, right? So it's like kids become the priority, then potentially partner if you even have anything left to give, and then you're way down here. And then if you ever decide to switch out yourself for one of these two, even for a day, you're selfish, you're an asshole, you're the worst mom in the world, and you're a terrible partner.
1000%. Actually, we had you and I were on a meeting yesterday.
And the person, the person we were having the meeting with was like, you know, it's okay, if you can't go entertain other people, like your friendships, like maintain other friendships when you have seven kids. And it's like, but it's not like, I get what you're saying I understood what she was saying but I also was like but you're I can't fill seven kids cups without filling my own cup and without and then also Elijah and I can't as a team fill seven cups without filling each other's cups there too so like no it's like yeah I get it on a friend level but like away from my kids I have to fill kale's cup not as a partner not as a mom not as you know a host none of that and so I just I don't know I think that the whole society and like daycare and things like I follow um this woman named Paige on social media and she also was talking about I think she said she lives in like Maine or Massachusetts or something.
And she was talking about how much she pays in child care. And for, she was talking about cutoff babies.
So I think that Lux would be the perfect

example of a cutoff baby. He just made the cutoff.
Well, he just missed the cutoff to start

kindergarten a year early or. He's like me.
So no, no, no. Cause you're October.
So he's not like you. Well, I, I should have been in the grade lower than the one I was in.
Okay. So the way it works here is August 31st.
So, um, Lux was born August 5 5th so he is the youngest in his class so all of his peers in his class are almost a year older yeah um but then like I'll technically pay more money I guess for the twins because they're October so they're gonna go to preschool I'll have to for that full year. And she was kind of putting it into perspective where like, where she lives, it's like around $20,000 for one kid to go that additional year.
And it's like, so society wants us to have kids, but does not want to help us maintain a lifestyle that is suitable and convenient to like make this like these big families go around. I've seen people talk recently about the four day work week, right? Like how some businesses are trying to do like adopt a four day work week model, which all sounded great and good because I know you and I briefly like talked about it probably privately like, oh, that sounds good.
Probably like a year, year and a a half ago and they kind of put something into perspective for me and they were like just so y'all know we're working a four-day work week here but you're fitting five days of work now into four into four so it's not actually any better no it's not it's not any better it's it's really not and then like to your point it's like it ends up not like an actual weekend, like a three day weekend, because you're still having to fit all of these things into two days.

So now you have, yeah, you have an extra day. But like, can you do anything on that extra day or are you spreading out your chores into three days versus two days?

I don't even know what that looks like. And I don't I don't even know what the solution is.
People are always like, you know, I say it all the time, be solution oriented.

I don't even know what a solution to this is because there is so many aspects that would have to change simultaneously to make anybody stand a chance. It's like no wonder mental health crisis rates are like the highest they've ever been.
And just it's insane. It's so insane.
Well, we say all of this to say that anyone that is working from home with children or without children truly um some anyone that is in a relationship and being pressured to have children and doesn't know where if they want them or if they want them anytime soon like all of you got and people that have traditional jobs or really non-traditional jobs that have kids and are just trying to make things work like you have all the kudos from me it's not easy. I have help and it's not fucking easy.
So I see you. I remember what that was like.
I understand what that was like, but you guys are, you get all the kudos from me and Kristen. I'm sorry that you are going to get it both ways because right now you're being pressured to have kids.
And then when you have kids, you're going to be struggling to figure out how to make that work for your schedules, which your schedules are so weird. And like me, you, every, every work trip I'm on, you're on it.
So like when you have kids, what the fuck are you going to do? Yeah. Your job? I don't know.
Oh God, please. For the love of God.
We might be, uh, we might be carding a small baby around. I don't know.
I mean, I did that for the longest time. I took looks every fucking where that I went.
So I mean, we, I mean we make it work but also yesterday Kristen and I started having a really good conversation about just romantic relationships in general so no kids necessarily in this I mean this isn't necessarily about the kids that are involved right but there's a lot of, I get a lot of backlash for leaving the relationships I'm in when they no longer fit for me, when they're no longer a fit. When I start growing out of them, I leave them.
And I think that so many people have this mentality that they like need to stick it out. They have to listen to their vows.
And like, I do get that to a certain point, but then also like when it no longer fits, it no longer works. And when I'm not going through two, three, four years of this work to try to potentially have another happy five years, like that's just not what I'm going to do.
And so Kristen recently talked to someone who sort of brought this conversation up. And Kristen said that I'm probably one of the only people that actually leaves the relationships when I'm not happy anymore yeah like out of everyone I know and I had that realization yesterday when I was talking to this person about their situation and I was like I literally only know one person who has chosen themselves and their happiness and not just like sat in a relationship that was going nowhere.
And I just it made me think about it because I'm like, it wasn't easy for you. Like it wasn't easy.
I think people make the assumption of, oh, it's just easy for her to leave. No, like you went through hell multiple times to choose yourself.
And I think that a lot of people would say that's a selfish decision. And I hate the fact that a connotation with the word selfish is always negative.
It is okay to be fucking selfish when you need to be selfish. There are times and situations because at the end of the day, I look at the situations that you were in that you decided to leave in the relationships.
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Well, I think that is a big misconception too, is that people are like, well, why wouldn't you try to stay to work it out with your children's father and the thing is that while i was in the relationship i was trying or not trying right and so i again i'm not gonna stay with my children's father for two three four years if it's not fucking working to maybe have it work at the end of the two three four five four, five, six years. Like, why am I going to stay beyond that? You know what I mean? So I think that's like, I don't want to model unhealthy relationships for my kids.
And yes, with that being said, I have also modeled leave when it's not working and be with somebody else. So that's not great either.
But like, what is the lesser of the two evils? You want to stay in a relationship with their dad or stepdad that is absolutely unhealthy. It's unhinged.
You never know what you're going to get. You don't know what mood you're going to be in or leave it and potentially be with another person.
And they either might get to know them in a way that they love them or they might not get to know them at all. And they still have a relationship with their own biological father i i'm gonna go the the second route for myself and and i i can appreciate it because i think that it's just not it's not talked about if people are choosing to do that because it's looked down upon and i don't understand why like i took the same vows that you and hobby took okay so it-hmm.
Okay. So it's like, I took the same ones.
What does it bother me as a married person if you decide down the road this isn't working and you decided to choose yourself? Why am I casting judgment? Because I'm choosing to potentially stay in a situation that maybe I'm not actually happy in to uphold something I said X amount of years ago. And you're happiness what's why am I pissed about that because and this I wrote this down because we were having this conversation yesterday I really think that this is part of it so I wrote down that um obviously I know this is easier said than done so for anyone that's listening to this podcast episode like Kiel is so fucking delusional I'm not okay because let's not forget that i left joe when i had nothing right like i had literally nothing i stayed at a homeless shelter and they never showed that on team mom i was literally checked into a homeless shelter before i moved in with suzy so i was at the homeless shelter i had nothing let's just i want that to sink it i left when i had nothing actually leaving the relationships when you realize that you're unhappy, right? And like, maybe you've worked, you put an expiration date on it and you're like, I've worked at this for a year or two years or three years.
It's still not working. I'm leaving.
Get your fucking ducks in a row. That is the biggest thing.
If you feel like you're in a relationship that is not working and it's probably not going to work out and you feel like you're women silently leave, right? So we leave before we actually leave. You check out before you leave.
Get your ducks in a row during this time. And I know it's easier said than done, right? But hold yourself accountable because once you get out, you do deserve to be fucking happy.
Kids deserve happy parents and life is too short to stay in these relationships that are just convenient. and I think what happens to your point is that people are staying in these relationships because they don't feel like they feel stuck they don't feel like they have a way out they don't feel like they have the means to do what they have to do but like as a 17 year old teenager I did with I stayed in the homeless shelter with Isaac with me like on my hips slept in the same bed in the homeless shelter Like there are resources.
You have to be proactive and hold yourself accountable to go fucking locate them. And again, I know it's easier said than done, but like I did it.
And so I know that it can happen. And no, it's not ideal to take two, three, four kids to go stay in a homeless shelter.
I know that. But like, if you're already staying in a relationship where you're mentally checked the fuck out and you're staying in for years after you checked out, then why are you not getting your ducks in a row during that time? And that's why I think that people hate me for it because I think subconsciously they also want to get out and they just didn't for whatever reason they have.
Misery loves company, right? So it's like, you know, people see you make a decision that they probably envy, might envy to some degree. Obviously, they're gonna, it's easier to look down on you than it is to resonate and be like, damn, like, I can actually do that too and use it as an inspiration.
I feel like you know people get stuck we frequently see it with women

more so than men because let's not forget pay difference it still exists um also who is usually the primary parent women so we usually see that and it's it's not a fair playing field out there i don't care what anybody wants to tell me i promise it's it's not a fair playing. So we have a lot of women that come out of work, don't have their own finances.
Everything is through the husband. And it's like basically being like financially held hostage in a situation.
And I think part of it too is like nobody wants to feel, no one wants to feel uncomfortable and have to go backwards in life. That's just natural everybody wants to progress progress forward so i think people probably hear could hear you say like i did the whole i had to go to a homeless shelter to basically start my shit over again yeah to get to where i needed to be people probably at we'll just say our ages in our 30s are like i would never fucking do that okay well then stay uncomfortable for the rest of your life then because I'm not I would rather be so fucking uncomfortable for a year or two years of my life for the long I always try to think big picture because when I was 18 years old and I had left Joe, I think at this time I was already dating Jordan, maybe my cousin looked at me and she said, don't ever leave yourself or put yourself in a position where you're relying on a man.
You need to know that you can support yourself and your children if he was to wake up and leave you tomorrow, if he was just to leave. And I had already left Joe at that point, but I never wanted to be back in a position where I had to go stay at a homeless shelter, right? Like I get it.
You,, you marry a man, he might make good enough money, or it just makes sense financially for you not to go to work, right? Like you don't, it just makes sense. The second that that child goes to kindergarten, I need you to go get a part-time job.
And it might feel like you're walking backwards because you're like, I'm in this relationship where I don't actually have to work and I'm comfortable and it's convenient. And I don't really have to put myself out of the comfort zone.
I don't really care. Go get a fucking part time job because that is going to set you up.
You may never need it. You may never end up leaving, but at least you are never going to be in a position where you can't financially provide for yourself.
And like, I don't know. I just I don't know if this mentality is going to be hard for people to understand.
And they're going to be like, Kale, you're so out of touch. But like, this is where I came from.
I was built off survival. So never in my wildest.
Why do you think that I looked for the opportunity with T-Mock, right? Like I was built to survive. I was not built to thrive.
So immediately when I found out I was pregnant and I saw this on the TV, why I've never in my life went on MTV.com prior to that. But I saw this and I was like, oh my God, I'm already pregnant.
Let me tell my story somehow. And I ended up getting picked, right? Like survival made me do that.
Yeah. So when it was time for me to leave Joe's house, and I realized that that was not working.
And it was actually a lot more toxic than anyone was showing on TV. It wasn't always like, yeah, obviously Joe's parents did what they could for me, but it was a lot more toxic behind the scenes that nobody saw.
It was time for me to get the fuck out. And I did that on my own, right? Like my cousin was like, you need to get the fuck out of this situation and we're going to figure this out.
And so she didn't financially help me in any way, shape or form. You know what I mean? But she was like, you need to look for the resources.
You have to do the work yourself. Definitely.
And I think there's a sense of accomplishment that probably comes with that too, right? Yeah. So I think that's a huge thing.
It makes me so sad when I hear people, even in my personal life, say like, you know, basically, I'm not happy in this, but I'm stuck. I'm not happy, but I'm sitting here.

When people are like, I'm just going to stay for, you know, until the kids graduate.

What is the because it's convenient.

So you're going to you're going to sacrifice.

We'll say if a kid is 10 years old, you're going to sacrifice eight to 10 years of your life right now.

To potentially leave and then try to make yourself happy after that. Well, it's probably harder the older you get.
Because it's convenient. You've already stuck it out that long.
You might as well keep going at that point. And I think that there's so many people who are still out here married out of convenience at, you know, 50, 60 years old.
And we're congratulating people on, oh my god, you've been married for X amount of time. It's like, I would rather look at a couple that's been married for five years and truly thriving and like actively choosing and knowing that they want to be together than applaud someone for having 50 years of marriage.
And they've both had side bitches the whole time and can't stand each other. Side bitches is crazy, but you know what happens.
So like, I just don't,'t i don't know i i think that and what's so funny too is like when people look at the grand scheme of like all my relationships that have played out right like that people know about they're like oh kiel's the common denominator or like they never stick around i'm i just want to reiterate the ogs already know i'm the one that leaves i realize it's not working i'm the one that is like we can't do this and i OGs already know. I'm the one that leaves.
I realize it's not working.

I'm the one that is like, we can't do this.

And I get the fuck out.

I also just think that like, just because I have failed relationships doesn't mean that I was the only problem too.

It takes two to tango.

It does.

It absolutely does.

How I feel.

I also wonder, in your experience, because you've left several relationships, most of them have had kids involved, right? Like, that's just what it is. Have you noticed that they're actually happier kids when you're out of these bad relationships? yeah i would say so because I'm going to,

I'll use Chris as an example here.

Um,

and,

and luckily that ended before the kids got too old, but it was a constant,

like Lux was always asking where his dad was.

And so I thought we were together.

I don't know if we ever actually were.

Um,

I thought we were, and we had two kids together. Like I thought we were together.
I don't know if we ever actually were. I thought we were.
We had two kids together. Like I thought we were together.
And so it was one of those things where it's like. You're a child under the impression that your parents are together, but they don't live together, but they're actually always fighting.
You never know what mood you're going to get. Are you asking where your dad is because you know that we were arguing or were you asking where your dad is because you don't understand like this whole thing? And so I think now that we have separated completely and never looked back in four years, the kids know they have more stability that way where they know they're going to Chris's house for X amount of time.
They know they're coming to my house for X amount of time. Do you know what I mean? And so I think that with the stability and the structure of that, and obviously that doesn't apply to people who have really unhealthy co-parenting and who use their kids as pawns.
So I think that, um, like

I've seen comments from people saying that, like, I've used my kids as pawns or like people use their

kids as pawns, but I think that that's just like a buzzword. Pawn is a buzzword.
Like I don't,

Thank you. kids as pawns or like people use their kids as pawns but I think that that's just like a buzzword pawn is a buzzword like I don't what I mean by that is like actively holding your child away from them for no reason or because you don't like their girlfriend like that's using your kid as a pawn right like that's like now my kids are are like they know the structure.
So we have Chris and I are probably one of the more unhealthy ones. But there is structure and stability in what we have so far.
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does to me because I feel like you and him together in your communication might be. I'm gonna say might be that's lying is not good no it's absolutely toxic communication there is toxic it's not it literally doesn't help anything but the structure you guys independently give your kids is healthy and and the kids are happier because they know okay they're going to their on these days.
They know. I mean, I said it to you the other day.
I know that when the kids go over there, they have their clothes, their shoes. I know that they're okay.
And so in that way, I think that the kids are a lot happier. Now, if Chris and I had stayed together and kept doing what we were doing and it clearly wasn't working and I decided to stay for the kids the kids are like where's my dad I think my parents are together but are they are they not like they wouldn't know what the fuck is going on and so I think just like subconsciously that has to be a weight off of a child's shoulders to know that they're not walking on eggshells not knowing what is going on with their parents in the same fucking household.
No, I would agree. I also wonder, and this might be a controversial opinion.

Is it rude?

Juicy.

Do you feel like how you are as a mom when you are with someone,

and I'm not going to count Elijah because that's like an anomaly situation now,

in all of your relationships up to Elijah,

do you feel like your mothering was better alone or with a partner? I think it was better alone. I've always thought.
It's weird. I don't know because, and then like with Elijah too, like, I don't know if it's my age.
I don't know if it's because I have four other kids. Like, I don't know what it is.
I've always just been a better mother alone. And then I also, I just,

maybe it's because I was built on survival. Like, I feel like I rely on Elisha so much because he's present and active.
Does that make sense?

Yeah. Well, because it's a healthy relationship and it's also healthy co-parenting.
I think

everyone, and this is speaking from someone who's not a parent so this is just an opinion don't you know don't sue kristin okay when i look at it and also see people who are not together also parenting i feel like co-parenting is not something that's just done when you're not with the person you have a child with i think you co co-parent with someone you are together with. I think it's still co-parenting.
I don't, I definitely think that the word co-parenting is misused and misplaced. I don't think that co-parenting happens when you just, when you break up.
I think you, when you're, especially from like, for example, like Javi and I were raised so differently and like our views were so different.

I mean, everything from religion all the way down to just like our cultural differences.

I think we were co-parenting in our marriage because we were so different.

And so thankfully, it never caused conflict as far as co-parenting goes.

But I would agree with you.

Yeah. agree with you yeah because i just look at it that way and i'm like okay so let's imagine cory and i have a kid we were raised entirely differently you know so like there's things that I would say, I don't agree with X, Y, and Z on your side, and he doesn't agree with X, Y, and Z on my side.
And it's like how, how, I don't want to say someone has to win because that's not the correct terminology, but like some way you have to figure out how to parent. So like, you have to actively like co-parent because unless you're magically with someone who is raised exactly the same way has the same exact beliefs has the same exact parenting style as you has the same exact everything which i think is probably few and far between yeah and i i feel like you're probably better off when it's a little bit of differences because that's probably how you raise a well, part of how you raise a well-rounded child.
For sure. I would agree with that.
I also, yeah, I would wholeheartedly agree with that. It's really interesting because I definitely think I've read certain articles just like online and things like that where they've said that co-parenting, the term co-parenting is definitely not used correctly but we what we know

today as co-parenting is typically among exes or people who have platonic do platonic parent parenting um no you co-parent when you're in a relationship for sure like absolutely do you feel like because i also feel like not that i don't want to say a better mom when you were alone. I don't, like, because that's not what I mean.
But, like, I don't know. I just feel like you thrived in it more.
And is it because it's basically survival mode? You don't have a choice? Or, like, why, for you, why do you feel like you liked that era over, like, partner era? Or even when I had, when natalie was my nanny it was not i i end up relying to i just do better by myself like i just no nanny no partner and i'm self sustaining like i just do it myself because there's nobody else to fall back on okay when i have someone i don't know what it i don't think it's like codependence it's just like i put all my eggs in that basket and i expect them to do as much or more than me i don't know like i don't know i to this day i think i just parent better like if i know for example when elisha was away i sent him off on a cruise yeah good fucking bye i got this i don't need you there's absolutely no no part of my brain that is like oh i'll wait for elijah or like i don't know it's just like this weird it's also probably like just like a complex that i have from living in survival mode for so long that i just thrive better by myself like if you were never obviously if you were my friend like if you never worked for me, I would figure out all the things that you do, I would figure them out. But it's kind of like that with you too.
Like I know if I don't have it, you have it. It's like, I don't, and I don't like that.
And so I feel like, like I don't, like I appreciate it. And like, obviously when I have help with the kids, like I appreciate it.
But I also know that it puts me in this place where it's, like, I'm going against everything that I know. And it feels weird because then I, like, overdo it.
Probably because basically because you had to rely on literally yourself and only yourself for such a long time. That it's a foreign feeling and it goes against everything that you basically, I don't want to say were raised because you weren't raised.
Like the way you raised yourself, essentially. Yeah.
That's everything. Like the self-reliance is there.
And then when you finally like kind of let your guard down and you let someone else like take some of the shit off your plate, then you're like, oh, well, if you're going to take this, you might as well be an extension of me. You know what I mean? It's not a healthy place to be.
That's for sure. It's not.
But that's why I was very apprehensive about moving in with Elijah and just being with Elijah in general because giving up that independence felt really weird. And I know that it's like I'm all or nothing sometimes and it's not great but we'll work on it like I don't know you'll make it work I that's actually really interesting when you say that about our dynamic because I never really looked at it like that well it's like look at the situation with Natalie and then look at like like, but what's weird is, like, it's only certain people.
I never in a million years, in all five years that Chris and I were on and off, never relied on him in that way. Maybe you just know who you can and who you can't.
Subconsciously. And sometimes I do it to the wrong people.
Yeah. Yeah't know that's interesting that's a i wonder that that's like a therapy topic oh for sure so i'll be calling up the therapist and i'll be back in therapy in 2.5 seconds that's yeah that's absolutely a therapy topic um i know you brought up tana and brooke when you were going to go to the canceled podcast i think they're back together oh are they back together oh thank god oh thank god okay i think they are let me it's about fucking time i was very upset with tana because i i obviously don't know these fucking people um i was upset with tana because i said you know i don't feel like right now is the time that you should turn your back on your bestie like, are they besties or are they just like regular friends? That's also good.
I don't know anything about. Like this segment right here is all the questions I have for Tana and Brooke, because neither one of them have responded to my request for a podcast swap.
Tana, is Brooke your bestie and Brooke is Tana your bestie? And like, what was the full reasoning? Because like, I understand there was like some scandals and shit like that. Right.
But like y'all have both done some foul shit. So like, and said some foul shit.
So what was the deciding factor to remove her from the podcast? Was it just like a temporary break? Whereas it was just like a fucking publicity stunt. Like, what was that? Because we also know that you're on tour and so, or you're about to go on tour.
So were you just going to replace Brooke for that entire canceled tour was it just like um okay let's remove her from the public situation right now and then bring her back when like all is clear like what was going on there and then also why haven't you responded to my request to do a podcast walk because people do like me also and I feel like we're we could all be cool but also I'm not going to beg for someone who doesn't want me so also fuck you but like i also i love you so i'm in a toxic relationship a toxic one-sided relationship with the canceled podcast okay like truly um i just pulled up an article that was ran six days ago talking about um so yeah so she did appear back on the podcast and she said it says brooke Schofield reveals her future at canceled podcast after, you know, everything that's going on. She said that, um, oh, she revealed that she is still part of canceled podcast and was filming an episode about her racist tweets.
Oh. So this says, um, this is just giving like background.
I'm just trying to see like what. Yeah, she revealed she revealed to TMZ that she was getting ready to film an episode for the canceled podcast to speak about the tweets.
Brooke said we are filming today. We are going to talk about it a little bit more in depth, obviously, because it's very serious.
She continued I'm still part of the tour. I'm still part of canceled when asked about the tweets being exposed and people not thinking brooks apology was not people not thinking brooks apology was not enough she said i feel like i'm doing the best that i can she took full accountability to what she did and understands why people won't forgive her but she's going to keep trying so it sounds like there's gonna be an episode coming out um okay so are they in depth there i i'm always apprehensive to talk about anything racially charged racially motivated racism in general because i never know how to address it but i will say this like all white people have implicit bias every single one of us so and whether it really boils down to whether or not you're willing to do the work to move past that i don't know brooke or tana enough to decide that for them or like i have no idea what they've done to do like any amount of work but with that being said there will always be people who will never see beyond the racist remarks and the implicit bias so i i just want everyone to be mindful of that like i think that it is something that has to be a work in progress even with the work in progress, there's a possibility that people won't accept the work that is being done to get them to a better place.
And so I also have experienced that. And I do encourage both Brooke and Tana to read the book Small Great Things.
I talked about it on Book Club. It's fantastic.
And if anyone else has any other book recommendations that talk about implicit bias i think that the book specifically what number one jody pico said on this podcast she said that small great things is not meant for the black or african-american audience it is meant for the white people to learn about that so that would be a really good place to start and just on this topic of the racist tweets and all of the racist comments and situations that, you know, Tana and Brooke both found themselves in and I've been in the past.

If there are any recommendations for, you know, workshops or books or anything like that, that we could benefit from, I want to use Brooke and Tana's situation as another reason why I need to continue to be on my own learning journey and to educate myself further on all of these topics. So if you have any book recommendations, workshops, anything like that, send them to me.
I'll also share them online with other people that like other white people specifically that need to learn, but maybe Tana and Brooke will see them and it also will help them. I never even knew.
I didn't know what I was never taught about implicit bias ever until you started teaching me about it. I also didn't know.
I also did not know. Essentially, for those of you who guys, for those of you who don't know, implicit bias is essentially like subconscious racism.
You could say until you're blue in the face that you are not racist, but you have implicit bias, which stemmed from racism. And so there is so much learning that white people as a society and as just the general population, you could be, you could live in the most diverse places, but you still have implicit bias.
And I think that that is something that people really need to like, look up because yeah, as a whole, you may not be racist, right? Like you might accept all walks of life, but you still have implicit bias. And that's like, when I was posting about this, and white people in the comment section were like saying, Oh, like we have bigger fish to fry.
Oh, the bandaid. Oh, my God, let's just clarify that really.
I was so pissed off by that because even i fucking understood what you meant and it's like that was a direct example from the book that you read was talking about the band-aids and when the way you explained it to me i have never felt as stupid in my life for never even thinking about that as i did at that moment. Well, because people that didn't read the book, they knew they didn't know that the Band-Aid example came directly from the text.
And that, again, that book itself was for white people, right? Like we, the Band-Aid brand, if I'm not mistaken, and this is alleged because when I Googled it, I did find really old photos. So unless I'm wrong, which Band-Aid brand, please don't come sue me.
It used to say on the packaging flesh color. And so that's where the example in the text came from was, and that's implicit bias.
So maybe the person that created that wasn't thinking about people of color. Yes.
So that is implicit bias. The fact that you are not thinking about that there are other people with other skin colors.
And so people were missing the entire point. And I would just come in back and be like, okay, when you're ready for this conversation, then come back because you clearly are not understanding the bigger picture.
Like you're holding on to this one little example that I used from the book and you're not understanding um but the example was literally showing you the actual bigger fucking picture and I was just like I just something that seemed so regular to me right I've never had to worry about what the hell color band-aid I'm wearing yeah better in my life I'm like oh it's gonna be freaking whatever tan I guess is like the color that like the shit would be and it's like i've never thought about it i'm just taking a band-aid i'm putting it on or it's like character ones i don't know i'm just putting it on but never in my life people were saying oh well that doesn't match my skin color either shut the fuck up it is closer to your fucking white skin than any shade of brown or black. That is the fucking point.
You are looking into the fucking. No shit.
It's not going to match our skin tone quite exactly either. But at the end of the day, it is closer to you and my skin color than any person of color.
i was in and i was just like i cannot believe

this is where we are but that really put things into perspective so i say all i say all of that to say that um i do think that based on what i've seen about the brook and tana stuff like i do i do think that there's growth there but i think that obviously that all of us myself included have a long way to go. Yeah.
And like, I learn basically everything I learn about racism and implicit bias, I either look up or I learn from you. Well, I'm also learning.
So as soon as I learn, I tell you because I'm like, okay, this is what it is. I actually had a really, really great conversation about racism and things like that with Elijah, his cousin and her husband, who's Elijah's best friend they live right here i love that yeah no and it was a great conversation because i want to continue learning this right and i think if if rook and tana are being genuine i think that they also want to continue learning learning but we don't want to be called ignorant and assholes and be called out for asking questions that seem probably pretty ignorant, but we don't know.
So we can't learn without asking questions. And so I think that there's a fine line there too, is like, how do we continue to learn? Obviously we can read books, we can read articles, we can talk to people, but without asking certain questions.
And the way that they explained it to me is all about how you, the delivery and the question. Yeah.
I mean, my dad always taught me it's not about what you say. It's literally about the delivery.
My dad taught me that since I was like very, very little. And I think that goes for anything.
And I would agree because there's questions that I have that I come and I ask you because I feel so dumb. And I might not know the...
And you'll say that to me, though. You were just explaining to me when we were in New York, we were talking about braids.
And I literally looked at you and I said, okay, so at what point do braids become cultural appropriation? And you broke it down for me. you were like you can do this this this and this

as a white person you're allowed to have these types of braids you cannot have I don't remember what they were called I think it was like twists maybe faux locks some you were telling me something about what at that point you're culturally appropriating yeah I learned from experience and I never want want to put myself but I didn't know at the time. So I had no idea what cultural appropriation even was.
So I couldn't have known that I was appropriating culture. I didn't know.
And that's not an excuse, right? Like, that's not an excuse. But now I had to learn, I had to learn the hard way, unfortunately.
And so that was like, not not okay but at the end of the day like we can't grow and learn and be educated without asking questions and fucking up but like also it's not an excuse and so it's it's there's a very fine line and so I think that all of us need to do the work it's not just tana it's not just brooke unfortunately theirs came out the way that it did or specifically brooks happened the way that it happened but we have to we have to continue the the education we have to no i fully agree with you it's so important truly it's so so important um okay i did actually have to go get looks from school but someone um someone asked me about is barely fucking touring coming to the uk

and my short answer to that is that is a dream come true so if it ever happens i would fucking love that um i was also going to say something else about philly and i don't remember what it was about your tour i have no idea was it about the second date no okay don't give people ideas Kristen um I guess the last thing I can say for now on this episode is that there are still as of today when we're recording this episode there are still tickets available for the Houston show. That is September 24th.
And you can get tickets at kaillawry.com. Just click the get tickets link and go over to get the tickets for Houston.
I hope to see you there. Kristen and I are driving from after Houston.
We'll be driving to Dallas the very next day. So we're excited about that.
Kristen's going to be there every step of the way. So if you want to meet me and you also want want to meet Kristen just say the fucking word and I'll make it happen because Kristen is that bitch so I the amount of people that have messaged me being like are you gonna be there and I'm like yes no incognito no she won't be incognito she will be there every step of the way so with my meet and greet when you meet me you also meet Kristen so it it's a two for one truly i hate you i love you so much thank you for joining this um very chaotic all over the place episode of barely fucking famous and don't forget to talk about patreon because patreon's got full episodes of barely famous coffee combos book club we do weekly book giveaways.
We do weekly lives. We do pre-recorded episodes.
I have a couple little, two little episodes coming soon. I'm not going to tell you guys what they are, but go on, head over to the Patreon to find out what those are because I think there's one coming either tomorrow or next week.
I'm not sure, but they're coming very, very soon. And what else?

Go buy tickets to the tour.

Go buy tickets to Houston.

And tell Kale that she's at a second Philly date.

Absolutely not.

Love y'all so much.

See ya. I'm out.