Balancing Family, Trauma, and Writing with Jennifer Hartmann

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Welcome to the shit show.

Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry.
And you're listening to Barely Famous. All right, y'all.
Welcome to an episode of Barely Famous. Today, I'm sitting with Jennifer Hartman, and I'm super excited because I fell in love with her when I read Still Beating.
And thank you so much for joining us on Barely Famous. Of course.
Thank you for having me. Yeah.
No, I'm excited. And I'm so, you're so chill and I was so nervous about this that I was like, what if I come in and then I'm just like, cause you're an author.
Like I just, I'm like, I've seen you on TV though. Like you're way more famous, but no, because you're an author.
Like people read your books. Like I don't have any talents.
You know what I mean? Not the same. I feel the same way though.
So I'm equally nervous. Well, thank you.
That makes me feel a lot better. So did you always want to be a writer? So I always wanted to write.
I never actually believed that I could turn writing into a career. So it was always just kind of a hobby and a pastime.
Right. I wrote poetry.
I dabbled in fan fiction. That kind of really stirred my passion for writing.
But I don't know. I settled down early.
I had a family, three kids, and I was like, whatever, you know, just have to make, you know, a living. And then what happened was COVID hit and my husband was like, you used to love to write.
You should go back to doing that. I was like, I don't know.
But I pulled up this manuscript I had half written from 10 years prior. And I read it.
And I was

like, ooh, just like that spark returned. And I was like, let's just do it.
It's now or never.

We were both laid off. So I did it.
And then I kept writing and I kept writing. And

Still Beating was later that same year. And everything just kind of changed.
So I'm like,

wow. That is so fascinating to me, especially knowing that you just said that you had a family.
I feel like the more kids I have, the harder it is for me to write. It is.
It is. Finding that time, carving out the time is really difficult because, you know, kids and family are always priority.
But sometimes you just have to take it day by day. Like, OK, today, you know, today I have to get this done.
I have to get in, you know, a deadline. My book is due.
So you really just have to kind of prioritize. And then just, you know, at the end of the day, be like, all right, now it's family time and, you know, take, take care of that.
So, so it works better for you to have like a deadline to work. You know what it does.
I absolutely hate it for myself because I get very stressed out and anxious about it, but I really do need a deadline because I'm such a procrastinator. You know, I will put things off to the last minute, but with writing, I really can't do that because it's such a culmination of time and days.
So yeah, deadlines really help me in the long run. I feel like, well, I guess too, if you're making it a career, you kind of have to work off deadlines because otherwise how are you going to get anything done where I'm like writing and it might take me two years and I might maybe be done.
Sure. It's like whatever works.
Right, right. So prior to COVID and writing and making that your full-time thing, what was your career path before writing? Yeah.
So I worked with animals. I worked at a veterinary hospital.
I love that. Yeah.
I'm such an animal lover. You'll see dogs and cats and all those, you know, creatures and stuff in my book.
So I always like to throw that in. But yeah, I worked at a vet hospital and it was like a boarding facility too.
So I was there for 13 years and I really thought I was going to get into the veterinary field. But I'm very like empathetic.
And so if a dog came in and they were just like sneezing funny, I would just break down. So I'm like, there's no way I could just be in there when, you know, dogs are sick or you have to put them down.
So I really kind of questioned that. And I was just, I don't know.
I think I was just kind of content to where I was. I never really thought anything would, you know, take off beyond that.
But, yeah, I always have a soft spot for animals. But it just wasn't the path for me.
No, I get it. And also, I mean, I think even

vets closed down during COVID. Yeah, they did.
Yeah, I was laid off from my job and I had been

there again like 13 years. So it was, I was like, oh my gosh, what are we going to do?

So COVID was, yeah, no, for sure. So when you first published, you started writing during COVID

and things like that. Did you self-publish initially? I did.
You did. Yes.
I did a lot

of research into that. So I got my book done first.
It was called Aria. And yeah, I just, everybody said Amazon, that's the way to go.
So I just did that. And I was like, all right, cool.
Never thought anything would happen or take off just beyond maybe like, oh, 200 bucks a year extra, who knows? And that ended up being a duet. And then I wrote another book that year.
And then I wrote Still Beating. And that published the very end of, I think, 2020.

And it took off almost like a month later.

It was like January 2021.

I was like, oh my God, what is happening?

It just kind of like, it was right place, right time, I think.

And it just hit that like Facebook algorithm with that dark romance really kind of taking

off and the indie publishing really, you know, reaching new levels.

And it's, yeah, like the rest is history. I don't even know what happened.
It's still very surreal. Well, I think during COVID was also a time where TikTok took off.
It did. And it kind of moved from like the dancing scene to creators getting on there and trying to find, you know, a way to have an outlet during that time.
Do you think that BookTok also impacted? Yeah, I think BookTok kind of carried it further. It kind of took it to that next level.
I think where it started was really like the Facebook groups. There was really a desire for dark romance at that time when I started writing.
And I didn't go into it knowing that. I kind of figured it out after.
I was like, oh, this is perfect. Like I lucked out.
Yeah. And just joined these groups and made connections and friends and everything.
And yeah, what really kind of I think the trajectory kind of picked up was still beating was the cover. So my husband and I are photographers.
Oh, that's so interesting. It's the original cover.
So it's not that cover. It's not this one? It's not.
That's the new one with my publisher. Um, so the first one was a picture of my husband and I, it looks like we're in an arm wrestling competition, but our arms are like chained together.
I've seen that one. Yes.
That's you guys did that. We took that picture on just a tripod in our living room and are like 10 by 10 living room at the time.
And my toddler was just like pulling on my pant legs, demanding chicken nuggets. And we're like, we have to get this picture.
And we took like a million. And like we went through and it was the only one that like turned out.
Everything else was terrible. I was like, this is it.
This is it. And it worked out.
And I did this little Facebook ad. I don't know any, I don't even do ads now.
I'm terrible at it, but it just took off and it kind of, I don't know, it just projected the book into this another different level and I was not anticipating it and people, I had a ton of pre-orders for it and yeah, and then it just took off from there. Did it already have the synopsis on the back? It did.
Okay. So people read, yeah, the blurb and I think just the combination of things.
And I did this before and after post of like me and my husband with a cell phone picture of our arms in our, in our living room. And then with the final cover and people were just like, there's no way you did that.
Like, cause I don't know, it turned out pretty cool though. We just, we Photoshopped the background and you're in a basement and like, no, it's our living room.
Yeah. That is so insane.
That's really cool. But so with, with Amazon self-published, um, when you're kind of getting traction on your book, how are you notified on like how many orders there are? Like they tell you? Yeah.
So there's like you have this little, I call it like your back office and there's little different tabs and it tells you, you know, like your sales for the day and then you have like your pre-orders and it tells you how you're doing. And I'm like, I was a nobody.
Like no one knew who I was. I just started out.
So I was like, you know, obviously this is just hitting the right algorithm at the right time. And right.
So that's so cool and fascinating. I can't wait to go tell book club that's like your image.
Cause I've seen, and like, I'm on good reads a lot and you see different variations of the cover. And then, um, in book club, a lot of times we'll be like asking each other, what cover do you have? Because you'll order something and then a different cover comes.
Right. So it's so interesting.
So can you, can people still get the cover that you know? Sadly, no. Okay.
Who knows? Maybe that'll change someday. Cause it really does.
I feel like a lot of my readers are like, Oh, it's so iconic. I need that cover.
And maybe someday my publisher will re-release it with a special edition. So we'll see.
That's really exciting. So then, um, obviously when get to it, we don't have to talk about it right now.
But we know, I know, that it was picked up for a movie. Yes.
So there'll probably be then another cover, right? Possibly. Possibly.
Yeah. I mean, maybe they'll even kind of recreate that original cover.
That would be cool. That would be cool, right? That would be really cool.
Like for the movie poster. So for people, for listeners who don't know what Still Beating is about mean i fell in love with you you're writing everything with that book so can we talk about what it's about because when i described it to people um specifically my boyfriend i said um you know what would you do and his jaw hit the floor he's like what the fuck are you reading yeah and i was like my husband said the same thing like what the fuck are you writing what's wrong with you um okay so do you want to give the synopsis or you want me to give the synopsis um it doesn't matter either way first of all i didn't know it was romance like i didn't know i'm sort of newish to just like being a book girly and so when i i think this particular one says romance on the back it might it does yeah it just says not.
Interesting. Yeah.
So I was like, and my friend, um, Kathy, shout out to Kathy. She kept texting me.
Have you read it yet? Have you read it yet? Are you reading it yet? And I'm like, I haven't gotten to, cause you know, I don't know if you read a lot, but you're, you have like your TBR, but then you continuously add to it. And so it shifts the way I was like, I'll get to it.
Finally got to it. And I was the only regret that I had was not reading it sooner.
So yeah. Can we talk about what it's about for anyone who might be interested? Yeah, absolutely.
So it's basically two enemies that have known each other for 15 years. He is engaged to her sister.
And so it's a little bit forbidden. And anyway, they have not liked each other for the past 15 years.
They get kidnapped by a serial killer called the Matchmaker.

And they're trapped in this basement for three weeks.

And they have to rely on each other and work together if they want to survive.

So we delve into what they experience in the basement, which is a little bit dark.

There's a lot of triggers. And then we detail kind of the aftermath, their healing journey after going through something like that and finding love in hopeless places, I guess you could say.
That's a really good way to put it. Hopeless places would be.
Yeah. And the forbidden situation.
We actually got, so I have a book club online and we, my neighbor who is a good, just a good friend of ours too. He listens to a lot of audio books.
And so he was like, I want to get on in on this book club. Right.
And so we're like, okay, don't read or listen to anything else. You have to start with still beating.
And so he did. And so we did this whole episode with him about it because it was just one of those books that like your jaw hits the floor.
You never pick it back up. Truly.
It was fantastic. It was so, so good.
So in your books, specifically Still Beating and Catch the Sun, I have not gotten to the other two yet. You kind of hit the ground running right off the bat when you opened the book.
Did you do that on purpose to set you apart or was that kind of unintentional? You know what? When I was reading, I know that I really got invested in books when they kind of started off with that action and external plot kind of hitting you. And then it kind of took a breather.
And then you get the development. And then you go back into it.
So I really liked books that were like that, set up and structured like that. So still beating.
I was like, all right, well, this is an opportunity where I can really just kind of like throw it at you right in the very beginning. Sometimes you need a little bit more set up.
Yeah, so I went with it. And then with Catch the Sun, I didn't know how to do that at first.
And I was like, all right, let's just take a prologue of a future scene and kind of set the stage where you're like, what is happening right now? And then we can kind of fall back and start over and go from the beginning. So okay.
Yeah. So with that being said, for Catch the Sun and the deadlines that you sort of set for yourself, were you already contracted for Catch the Sun? I was.
So how does that work with like the creative process and your writing process? It's tricky. So while deadlines are good for my motivation and to keep going, creativity is so fickle.
And I'm such a mood writer. So it's really hard.
And when I was writing Catch the Sun, actually, before I started writing it, I was actually in the middle of a completely different book. So I and I wasn't really feeling it, I hit a wall.
And I just had this like epiphany moment one day, I was listening to like some songs in the car and the song just like hit me. And I just had this, I don't know, this vision of a story for Catch the Sun.
And I was like, Oh, my God, so I went home, I closed out the manuscript I was writing, and I just started writing that book from scratch. And that's normally I need months to kind of like simmer in these ideas.
And this was one that just I just started writing it. So yeah, I was very lucky that the idea hit me because if I hadn't, I would have probably been struggling to the last minute to try to get this other book done.
But yeah, you just kind of go with your gut. If

something's not hitting right and if something is, you just need to pivot and write what speaks to

you. So how does that work with the publishing house then? Are they like, okay, we want you to

go YA or we want you to go dark romance? Do they kind of give you a direction or not necessarily?

Yeah, sometimes. So I had no intention of writing YA and so I just wanted to write younger characters.

So it really just kind of fell into that with Catch the Sun. And then they liked that.
So they're

Thank you. Sometimes.
So I had no intention of writing YA. And so I just wanted to write younger characters.
So it really just kind of fell into that with Catch the Sun. And then they liked that.
So they're like, well, why don't you try to write YA for your next book? I don't know if I'm really a YA writer. I enjoy doing it.
But I'm like, how many? My tagline is kind of like, you know, it's more trauma based. So I'm like, how much trauma can I put these like 17 year olds through, you know? Yeah.
So the next book I'm writing, I'm like, well, it's going to be a little YA, but then I need to age them up a little. And they're totally fine with it.
They're like, write what speaks to you. You know, that's where the magic lies is like when you have that inspiration.
So they're really cool and accommodating with it. So now that you are no longer self-publishing, did they know the success of Still Beating since you self-published that? Yeah.
So they picked that one up. That was one of my first backlist books that they picked up and re-released it.
So yeah. And what is the idea behind these stunning covers? Because they're in no way...
I would never... I don't read the backs of books before I read them.
I want to be completely just caught off guard. I thought when you released this one, I was like, oh, I wonder if this is going to be like a, like no trauma.
So wholesome. Yeah.
So wholesome. Yeah.
So what is the idea behind putting these like stunning covers on the books? I don't know. They gave me, they give me a lot of covers to choose from.
So they'll do some designs. I think Catch the Sun, we had like maybe 10 different designs that I could choose from.
And then I narrow it down to a few and they test them with the readers and whichever one wins, that's generally the one they go with. But yeah, they're a little kind of secretive.
Like you don't know what you're going to get when you see the covers. It's a mystery.
I mean, I love that. And also I just think that they're so different than other covers too, which is nice.
I will say that before I read this one, I was comparing the cover to still not still beating.

I was comparing the cover to Pretty Girls.

I've heard that.

Yes.

And I actually noticed that in the beginning when they were sending me.

There was another one that looked very similar.

And I was like, oh, I don't know.

It's a little close.

So we compromised with this one.

But I still get that a lot that they are they're kind of close.

But I mean, this one's better. Oh, thank you.
I haven't read the other one. I read Pretty Girls not that long ago.
I mean, very, very different stories, too. So there's not even similarities in the book.
But I think the locket, I just kept thinking because I had heard about this one after that. I was like, oh, like, are they connected? I didn't know.
But they're definitely not connected. Where did you get the concept for still beating? Oh, God.
I probably brain nugget, um, much earlier than I should have. I was like probably like in my mid teens and I, it just, the idea came to me and originally I was going to have them as best friends.
So it was going to be like friends to lovers. And then once I started writing it, I was like, oh, let's make them hate each other.
This just hits different. It's a little bit more juicy.
Um, so I changed it up,. But I just when I started writing the book, I was going to write it as this kind of twisted novella.
OK, because the only idea I had had was the basement scene where there's just this kidnapper called the matchmaker where he kidnaps people and tries to make them fall in love before he. So I was like, all right, let's just keep it there.
Let's never get them out of the basement. It'll be really dark and terrible.
And then I just got really invested in the characters. And I'm like, I want to see how they make it through.
And there's just something about, I don't know, you don't see that in a lot of romance novels, like dark romances, where you see the aftermath, where you see the healing journey. It's usually focused on the external plot and the action that happens and that, you know, what they're going through.
Well, I loved the development even after the fact, because I think I would have been upset if I didn't know what happened. You know what I mean? Yeah.
That's how I felt too. I'm like, I need to know.
Yeah. Like where are we going from here? So when you were having the idea for still beating and you were a teen, did you ever get concerned with your own thoughts? Like what am I, you did? Absolutely.
Were your friends and family, like that's a a red flag. I never told them.
I was like a super shelter child. So I was like, and I was like raised Catholic and everything.
And I was like, I can never tell a soul about this. I went to Catholic high school.
I'm like, what is wrong with me? But I always just had this like interest in true crime and just kind of twisted things. I was watching Criminal Minds before I wrote that book.
And I was like, I just got this idea, like a love story, like a Criminal Minds episode, but make it like twisted into a romance and give them a happily ever after in the end. So that was kind of the inspiration.
I mean, it definitely worked out. I'm glad.
Yeah, no, for sure. So that being said, once you finally started, because you said that that was like when you were in your teens, right? When you finally put the pen to paper, like you got on your computer, did you share the idea for the book with your husband before it was published or before you published it? Or did you give him like an idea after the fact? Oh, my gosh.
Has he read it? He has. He's read a lot of it.
So he's not really a reader. But he has.
If I'm like, all right, can you read this part and make sure it's OK? I think he listened to like half the book on audio and he knows, he helps me plot. He helps me brainstorm.
So he knows pretty much everything about my books, but he's just not really a reader. Like that's hard for him to, you know, stay focused on a book.
I think I told him a little bit and he was a little concerned for me, but it all worked out. So it's fine.
Did you share it with any other peers like your idea? I did. So I actually had beta readers while I was writing it because I was going to write the book under a pen name.
OK, there's no way I can put this like I can never make eye contact with anyone in real life if I put this under my name. Come on.
But my beta readers were like, no, it's good. You need to own it.
Like, just do it. It's OK.
And so I did. And I'm glad I did.
No, I'm so glad you did. Um, I, I don't think I know of any authors that write under a pen name besides maybe like, um, Christina Lauren, but that's two girls or two women rather.
Um, so I don't, I can't think of any other pen names, but I'm glad that you put it under your, people love this and you want your name on that. You know what I mean? I'm proud of it.
Um, so what were, what were people's reactions to your other books compared to Still Beating? Yeah, they went over pretty well. I didn't know what to expect.
Still Beating is still, I would say, my darkest book that I've written. And I followed it up with Lotus, which had a little bit of a nugget in Still Beating that, you know, you're like, oh, that's kind of interesting, hopefully.
And then you want to read Lotus after that because that's his story. And that book is a little, it's not as dark.
It has a little bit more humor and lightness, I think. But there's still, I mean, there's still kidnapping.
All my books have kidnapping, apparently. There's still like mystery and some darkness in there.
But yeah, I don't know. I feel like my underlying just theme that carries through all my books is just kind of overcoming trauma.
So they're all just very angsty, emotional reads, some darker than others. But you kind of get the same, hopefully you get the same feeling when you're done.
Like also people knowing that it's a Jennifer Hartman book. Yeah, I think so.
I think so. Yeah, I for sure think so.
Did you ever write from Earl's perspective? Oh my god, that's a good question. I don't think so.
I don't think he deserves a POV. And I don't know if I want to get in his head.
He was, yeah. So we do touch upon him more in The Stars Are on Our Side.
So we get a little bit more of his backstory, which really interested me while I was writing Still Beating. I was like, what makes this guy tick? Because I don't like writing just kind of like one-dimensional characters.
And he was a little one-dimensional in that one. So I was like, let's kind of like pick him apart and see what makes him tick.

So we delve into that a little bit and the stars are on our side.

But getting into his head, I don't know.

I don't think I'll ever do that.

Maybe like a little bonus scene here and there in the future.

But not a book.

For sure not a book.

Okay. Not a book.

Or maybe a novella?

Maybe.

I don't know.

We'll see.

I think I agree with your decision that he doesn't deserve a POV. He so can we are we allowed to talk about the movie yeah okay still beating was picked up for a major a major motion picture yeah um do we know if it's a show or a movie it's a movie it's a movie that's so exciting first of all so were you did you approach production or like outlets to make that happen or did they approach you they approached me So that was very exciting.
I was not anticipating it. I mean, that's always been my dream.
Before I started writing books, I went to screenwriting school in community college. So I took a lot of courses.
And that's actually where I wanted to go if I could have done anything. So it was really like any of my books being a movie is just like the ultimate.
So when they approached me about it, I actually tried to give them a different book at first because I didn't know. I thought maybe still leading would have been too dark.
Like I was like, is this something that is going to translate well to film? I don't know. But they felt very confident about it.
They gave me their ideas, different scenes, played them out how they would do them. And I was 100 percent on board.
So I am very excited to see what they do. But what was that? First of all, who was the first person you called when you found out? My husband.
Yeah, of course. And then what was that like just hearing that, I guess, a literary agent or your team or whatever was like, hey, we want to they want to do this meeting about this? It's so it's so surreal.
I never imagined this. I'm just like this, like always been this kind of shy introverted person.
So just to be kind of thrown into like a movie deal and you know, it's just beyond my wildest dreams and I, I'm very excited. So when I saw on, I think it was Instagram that it was going to be picked up into a major motion picture, um, immediately I DM'd you and this is more for the listeners who don't know this um i immediately dm'd her and i said i have these characters in mind for for the for the movie and i'm not gonna say who they are because in the event that they are casted um i don't want to like spoil anything but i she you said those are the people that you picked literally the same like how Like how? Out of the millions of people? I was just blown away.
And it's so funny. So then I'm scrolling and I follow the characters that I have in mind on Instagram.
And I'm like, it just further solidified me wanting them. So I hope.
I hope. My fingers are crossed.
It would be amazing. So how much involvement do you get in casting? Apparently, I get a lot of involvement, which is kind of, that's really what sealed the deal.
Because I know if you just kind of like, hey, let's give my movie rights to Netflix, you kind of lose creative control and they take over. But with Passionflix, they really want the author to be involved, which is amazing.
So I will have a say in the casting. I get to be on the set for the whole time.
I get a say in the final script. And I can even give notes to the director.
So, yeah, it's very exciting. So you know, obviously, from being an author and also just, like, seeing the adaptations, that some things have to be changed because you're going from a manuscript of 300, 400 pages to a smaller script, right? Like, will you get to kind of give approval on what changes you're willing to make? Yes.
Okay, cool. Yes.
So they'll, yeah, I'll get final say in all that. Um, so if something just isn't feeling right or something, I'm like, I need to have this in there.
It was really important to the story. Um, then I'll get to, you know, I'll get to have say in that.
So that's, that is, is you're gonna see your name on the credits i can't even that is so is there a timeline like do you know when it's set to go into production or whatever the case may be i don't have details yet okay um from what i've told it might be sometime next year where we're gonna start maybe like during the summertime it would be very cool to have like end of 2025 a release but that might be wishful thinking but we're gonna okay maybe i mean and are you casting now not yet not yet okay so i still have time to still have time okay perfect i'll start the acting classes now absolutely and then even if i am the barista at any point or i'm like just hanging out bartender in the perfect yeah perfect i don't have to and we can just be like just bringing drinks to the actors white claws specifically white claws perfect um obviously we're all seeing the drama kind of unfolding with some other movies that are book adaptations does that scare you at all of course I am like I'm a people pleaser and I'm very just like a positive like I love positivity I stay away from anything controversial or negative right and so just the thought knowing that there's going to be, it's just, you know, it's, you

get it.

It just comes with the industry.

There's no avoiding it.

So I just, I don't know, I might be hiding for a little while, but at the end of the

day, it is what it is.

And that's one of the biggest lessons I've had to learn.

Probably the biggest growth is just knowing that not every, you can't please everybody.

There's not a single person, you know, nobody is going to love it a hundred percent.

So I don't look at reviews anymore.

I think it's a hundred percent. So I don't look at reviews anymore.
I try to stay away from like all that stuff because it's just, I'm very sensitive. I'm very empathetic.
So I take all of it to heart. I'm like, well, maybe I should just burn the book and pretend that it never existed.
But you know, there's no, there's always people that are going to love it too. And so I try to focus on that stuff.
Like the people that message me, they're like, this book changed my life. And those really positive things, I try to focus on that.
No, absolutely. Reading comments and social media, there's such a love-hate relationship.
And I think that goes for everyone, not just influencers, but people who run businesses or authors. But I mean, I would agree.
Are you on Goodreads? Do you read like ratings and reviews on there? I used to. I used to when i first started out um but it was really just kind of sucking my soul and i was like i'm never writing again and i'm like well that would be that would suck like i really want to keep writing so i do stay away now i haven't gone back since like it was my new year's resolution i think going into 2023 since then i've never looked back i've never gone aside from to just list my book on goodreads i i have stayed away from it it's's a reader space, you know, and it is what it is, you know.
If it's clearing your mental well-being, then I think that's for the best. But so now that you are kind of doing the movie thing, are you writing anything new now? I am.
I'm actually writing two different books right now. Do you not like confuse the plots and the storylines? So, well, what happened was I started writing a book.
I am writing one with a co-writer and it's actually going to be a little bit still beating ish. We're going to delve into kidnapping again, but try to put another twist on it.
And so that one's been really fun. We're really far into it.
We were like maybe 85, 85% into the book or so. But then I have a deadline due for my publisher.
And so they want something completely different. So we are pausing that.
And I started that one. I'm like 40,000 words in.
And that one's a little bit more contemporary romance. We have fake dating in there.
We have enemies to lovers. Wait, what's fake dating? That's where you pretend.
They pretend that they're dating, but they're not. You know what? I just read a book like that.
It was The Paradise Problem by Christina Lauren.ina lauren yes so i just read that one i think in june and that was sort of like the vibe i'm still with the romance um even though this is considered romance i'm still new to like the tropes and things like that okay so um this one is like enemies to lovers that would be fake dating and then what was the other one that you said second chance second chance maybe okay i do that a lot too i like history i like the characters characters having history before they like get together i know it adds to the slow burn and the tension for me for sure would you so is that one going to be more of like a slow burn oh yeah i think all of mine are slow burn i i don't know i just slow burn where maybe where in the romance part oh oh for the lovers to get together in the end. So beating is probably my least slow burn maybe because you have that whole beginning part where they're kind of forced to like interact.
I don't know what to say. Interact is a good word.
Interact. Yeah.
So, yeah. So one of my questions was actually would you collab and what do you think that process would look like? So how is that one different? How is collabing with – is she an author? She is.
She is. So how is it collabing versus your own writing process when you're doing it by yourself? You know what? So not only is she's my co-author, but she's also my alpha reader and one of my best friends.
So she, I always give her my chapters as I'm writing them and she's like, all right, well, this is what you need to change or this is what I like. So she, and we have very similar tastes and very similar writing styles.
So I trust her a her 100%. So I feel like if I were to do collaborations, it would probably only be with her.
Honestly, it's really hard. Otherwise, you know, for some of you don't know as well, or if you're going to mesh, you never know until you're writing.
Because I really have like strong feelings about my characters when I'm writing it. I'm like, this has to go in this direction.
And she's like the only one that I trust to be like, no, you're wrong. And be like, okay, I guess you're right.
So. Well, to, um, to that point, just like even going back into this conversation was like, you have a very specific writing style, I think.
So it would be hard to kind of pick up with an author or, or just anyone that doesn't have even a similar writing style. That would probably create some conflict.
It would be difficult. Yeah.
I don't think the readers would feel it as much. You're going to feel the disconnect a little bit.
No, I love that. I'll be excited to read that one.
You don't have to share it, obviously, because it's not done yet. But do you have a title for that one yet? We do.
Oh, that's exciting. So you're like really almost done.
We are almost done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that's super exciting. So are you reading anything right now? I know you're writing and I know you're doing the movie thing, but are you reading anything right now? Um, so I actually just started fourth wing and I'm super into the game and I don't usually read fantasy romance.
Um, but yeah, I'm like, I need to, I need to get on board with this one and I'm liking it so far. So wait, iron wing.
Is that ACOTAR? No, ACOTAR is different. Yeah, no, this is Rebecca Yaros.
Um, so yeah, it's iron flame was the second one, I think. And then fourth wing was the first book.
So those are going to be movies, too, I think.

Right. I'm sure.

Yeah.

I'm sure they are.

They're so popular.

And it's super good so far.

It's like it has.

There's not a person I've met that has not liked it.

So I'm like, oh, this is great.

the staff at my kids school yeah talk about like book club and like now like people are hosting book club at like their businesses and stuff which is so funny and one of them was um fourth wing like they were like trying to get me but my tbr is so long but i just how do you commit to what you're reading you know what i mean and i'm. I have, like, everyone's like, oh, do you DNF books? I'm like, I do all the time, unfortunately.
Do you? I do. Oh, my gosh.
Like, I just, I don't have, I'm a slow reader. I don't have a ton of time to read.
So I'm like, I usually know within the first, like, 10% if I'm, like, connecting. Okay.
So, and then I'll just, maybe I'll try again later. But, yeah, I don't know.
I've only read, like, 20 books this year. And I'm so sad about that.
Like, last year I read year I read I think like 50 or 60. Okay.
But I'm just – I'm so picky. I'm so picky reading.
I have commitment issues in life and with books. So I have never DNF'd a book and I get mad at myself every time I don't DNF a book that I hated because it's like I could be spending time reading something I love.
Right. But there are – But you need that closure.
I need it Because I'm like, what if I missed out on something? Like what if this truly was or I get really upset about the books that I'm like eating up until the very end and then you're like the ending ruined it so much. I hate that.
And then I'm like, it's not fair for me to like give them a bad rating on Goodreads because you're like, okay, I ate this up this one book. I don't want to slam anybody, but ate it up one day.
Loved it. And then the last 15%, I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, are you, like, I loved this and I was ready to go to bat for you.
And then you let me down. I hate that.
I know. Yeah.
It's such an emotional experience. It is.
It is. And reading is so subjective.
So like other people will be like, well, I'm still giving it a five star because it's so good all the way. Like until the ending.
Yeah. So it's like, I don't know.
I'll give you like a three. Like a three.
Right. Three stars.
Because it's like I loved it until I didn't. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay.
So favorite authors. Do you have any favorite authors to read? I have so many favorite authors.
You do? Yes. I love.
So my co-author, Shelley St. Clair, she has one standalone and it's one of my favorite books of all time.
What is it? So I can read it. It's called The Bayou Never Tells.
Okay. Let me go add it to my Goodreads before I forget.
Yes. It's like the Louisiana Bayou.
It's like this like gritty. What is that? It's just like a Southern, kind of a Southern hero.
What is it called? The Bayou Never Tells. Can you spell that? Yeah.
B-A-Y-O-U. Okay.
Never Tells. Yeah.
What is a Bayou? It's like a swamp kind of. Oh.
A southern swamp, I guess. There's alligators and stuff.
Oh, I just saw an alligator for the first time in the wild. I went to South Carolina a couple weeks ago.
Oh, wait. Did you have anything to do with this cover? My husband made it, actually.
I knew it. Like you could just tell.
It's stunning. Thank you.
It looks so good. Okay.
So I just clicked want to read. Oh, it's rated really well too.
It's very good. It's a romance, but she is good at adding in like those other external factors and action and like suspense and all that.
So it's very good. Otherwise I love, I love Colleen Hoover.
I love her. She was one of the first authors I read when I started writing.
And then Jewel E. Ann.
Okay. Great.
Pam Godwin, Mia Sheridan. I just read Mia Sheridan.
I read Archer's Voice. Yes.
And then I also read that was I read Archer's Voice kind of early on into my reading journey. I'm not I did rate it five stars, but I'm definitely not like a like a romance girly.
I'm like a dark girly. I got i like the twists and the turns and the trauma i think that there's just something and i have tabs in here like you couldn't have convinced me that i would have related to anything and like this is so dark and twisted but i have tabs where i related i'm so glad that's but like in a book like this i just never know that i mean we shouldn't be but actually yeah cora also you picked great names for the um the characters but yeah i have three this was like the relationships um i don't want to call it trauma relationship the healing yeah that was like the stuff that i tabbed that i related to a lot so it's funny because like when people find out i'm like, oh my God, you write romance for a living.
Like, do you have any relationship advice? And I'm like, have you read my books? You're like, absolutely not. Like maybe like overcoming kidnapping, like love after kidnapping.
Like I could help you there maybe. You have kids.
Yes. What is their, how old are they young? Are they older? So one is almost 15.
Okay. And then I have a 12 year old and a six year old what are the older kids reactions to you being an author and then do they read they don't read your books no okay yeah they can't absolutely not yeah no my luckily my oldest um my daughter she's not really much of a reader her friends are though and her friends are like oh like your new your mom's new book is why I'm reading it I'm like no I'm like yeah and my daughter's like she's like I'll never read your books mom don't worry I'm like, no.
I'm like, yeah. And my daughter's like, she's like, I'll never read your books, mom.
Don't worry. I'm like, well, maybe when I'm dead, you can read.
But until then, no. But no, she's super, super positive and supportive.
All my kids are. They're very excited about it.
I think it really hit the first time they saw my books in like Target. They went to Target and they're like, oh my God, this is Target and my mom's book is there.
So up until then, it's almost just like, oh, I don't know. It's just on Amazon kind of a disconnect um but yeah once they started seeing them in stores it was really like whoa holy crap like this is real cool yeah so do they know about the movie they do and what do they think about that yeah they're very excited yeah so the production company passion flicks had actually come to our house to film this little like tv show that's going to be airing i think soon okay um where they just did like it's called tasca talks and it's basically just like a day in the life of the author so they got to experience that it was almost like our house was turned into a little movie set and um so they were like that was really i think when it just sunk in like oh my gosh this is like we're on tv right now so yeah it's been pretty cool that is so awesome i'm just so happy for you and i feel like this is going to be huge i hope they also adapt the others.
Thanks. That would be incredible.
But so your other two books that you're working on, do you have timelines for when they'll be released? Kind of. So I think my like the fake dating book that I'm writing for my publisher, I believe that's next summer.
Okay. And then the other one that Dark co-write is in limbo.
We don't know if it's going to be independently published or with the publisher. It's just kind of in transition right now.
So we'll see. I'm not sure.
Two books will be released next year, I think, for sure. We just don't know what order.
Do you ever see yourself, like, I know that there's another author that I have in mind that just kind of releases multiple books a year. Do you ever see yourself doing that? So I feel like I would be happy with, like, two to three books a year.
Um, I, the very first year I started writing in 2020, I think I wrote five books that year.

I just was like, so gung ho. I'm like, let's just do this.
But, uh, I don't know. I think

the longer you go on, the more like imposter syndrome sets in, the more you overthink,

you have expectation, like reader expectation. Um, so it's harder.
It takes a little bit longer to get the whole story down so i think yeah i think like two to three books a year is probably you know what i'll go for how do you decide as an author what that balance is like it's just whatever feels right it is just a feeling yeah it's um if i'm not feeling 100% confident with the story or the direction or i'm disconnected i i have to put it aside and either just start over. One of my recent releases called Older, I published that independently.
I think I wrote that, like I rewrote it three different times. And that's a first for me.
It was just this like forbidden age gap story. And just to get that right where it's not icky, I guess it was really, it was a struggle for me.
So I just had to kind of go back to square one multiple times until I got it right. And it's really intuition based writing for me.
I really work well just trusting my gut with stories and knowing that everyone will love it. But if I'm happy with it, I feel like, you know, it's okay at that point.
What's the title of that one? Because I also, it's going to sound, I feel weird saying that I love books like this, but like, um, my dark Vanessa or like Tampa. Have you seen, have you heard of them? I've heard of my dark Vanessa.
Okay. So like books like that, like I'm fascinated.
I don't want to say it's so weird to like, when I talked to Colleen Hoover, it's like, so it feels so fucked up to say, I love it because it's so dark and twisted. Like for Verity, did you read that one? Yeah, absolutely.
devoured it. How do you sit there and say, oh, I love this, but it's like so it feels so fucked up to say i love it because it's so dark and twisted like for verity did you read that one yeah absolutely devoured it how do you sit there and say oh i love this but it's like so fucked up right so it's the same kind of thing for like my dark vanessa or like tampa like those types of vibes so is it what is did you already publish that one yes it's called older older yes and it takes place in the 90s so i'm a 90s girl i mean i was born in the 80s but like 90s was my vibe i love it.
So yeah, it's an older guy. It's like a 17-year age gap.
But with me, I have to have it like – it has to be meaningful. There has to be development in depth.
So I can't just write a superficial like, oh, let's just like all fall into bed together. It's totally fine.
There has to be a buildup. So yeah, it took a little bit longer to get there for me with that one.
But it was fun. It was something different.
I wanted to challenge myself. For sure.
So I will be definitely, is that still available to order? That one's just on Amazon. It will be picked up with my publisher, I think, next year.
Okay. That's so interesting.
But keeping the cover, though, which is cool. That's nice.
Usually they choose the covers, but yeah. Well, maybe they could talk to my publisher because I would love to change my covers.
That would be fantastic. So those are all the questions I have for podcasts.
I have a few more for book club, if you don't mind. Absolutely.
Where can people find you and where can people order your books? So you can order my books. So a lot of them are pretty much all of them are on Amazon, but otherwise some are on different platforms.
The ones that are picked up through my publisher, Bloom, that's Still Be Dane, Catch the Sun, Lotus, and June 1st. Those you can find on Barnes & Noble.
You can find at Target, Walmart, a lot of local retailers. But yeah, otherwise Amazon.
And then where can people find your socials? So Amazon I'm probably most active on. And that's author.jenniferhartman.
I am on TikTok, but I'm one of those people that will post like 10 videos in a row. And then I'll disappear for nine months.
And then I'll come back and do it again. I love that.
I don't even know my handle. It's like Jennifer.Hartman, author.
I'll tag her. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. For anyone listening when I post this, I will also put it in the description of this episode and then I'll tag her on social media so you guys can go find her.
Thank you so much for joining us on Barely Famous. Thank you so much.
I love being here.

Yes.

If you guys want to hear more about Still Beating and Jennifer Hartman,

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