Twisted in All the Best Ways with Colleen Hoover

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Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.
It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry. And you're listening to Barely Famous.
Well, Miss Colleen, Mrs. Colleen Hoover, thank you for joining Barely Famous Podcast.

I heard that you don't typically do podcasts.

I don't. I don't do a lot of interviews.
They just make me nervous and I don't sleep very well

leading up to them.

I was going to say before or after?

Before. No, after I'll be completely fine.

Okay. I'm the opposite.
I get nervous.

Yeah. I'm like, oh, should I have said something differently?

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?

You start going over everything. Well, I do that too.
But once it's out there, I'm like, whatever it's the, yeah. Leading up to it for sure.
But I'm excited to do yours. They asked me and I was really, truly excited because you know, teen mom fan.
You were? You watched teen mom? Absolutely. Shut up.
That's why I said yes. I was so excited.
Oh my gosh. That is so, I'm like, people don't know who I am.
So like, I, that's just what I think. Do you have imposter syndrome ever? Every second of my life.
So we have that in common. Yeah.
Okay. Because I thought I was the only one.
I'm like, okay, I'm the only one in like a public presence sort of situation where I question my own. No, you're not the only one.
So you have it too. Absolutely.
Yeah. Did you ever have it with it ends with us? Oh yeah.
You did still to this day. Yeah.
Your trailer got like 25 million views. Yeah.
I'm like, why am I being pranked? Was it, was it bots? Are they going to like put out an article and be like, no one actually watched the trailer. Everyone watched the trailer.
Um, how did this movie even come to fruition? Oh man. don't know did it is it out yet like i still have imposter syndrome we watched the movie kristen and i went to the screener yesterday yes and what do you think well so i read the book um a while this year actually and um so i kind of already knew like what to expect, but Kristen hadn't read the book and we both sobbed.
So you've got reactions from people. That's interesting.
Yeah. Well, the first time I saw it was in a theater where no one knew that I was there and they weren't even readers.
It was just a random, like very early, early screening before edits. And the people next to me hadn't read it or didn't even know what they were watching.
And she was crying the whole time. So I was like, that's good.
That's a good sign. Oh, for sure.
We were like, okay, one, two, three, sniff. So nobody would hear us because we were sobbing and we were like, no, we don't know if anyone else can hear us.
So it's like, I don't know what to do. And then, um, there were a lot of parallels to the book and the movie to my personal life.
And so I think I connected on that level. And, um, I mean, also brownie points for having post Malone's music in it.
I'm a huge postie fan. So immediately I was like, did she have something to do with this? No, that was probably mostly Blake.
She has the best taste of music. I love it.
And you got an executive producer credit, which is incredible. That's awesome.
So what was it like to be a part of a movie production versus a manuscript for a book? Completely different to completely different worlds. Um, you know, we were just talking about imposter syndrome and I had it the entire time.
Like I wasn't on set a whole lot. Um, a lot of it had to do with like, it was filmed during the writer's strike, the director's strike, the actor's strike.
It was just a bunch of like, what probably should have took less than two months, took them over a year. So yeah, it wasn't your typical filming experience.
So I wasn't, you know, there all the time, but, um, completely different. So many people involved, so many people.
I remember showing up on set the first time and just being extremely overwhelmed. 200 people just walking around.
Everyone has a job and I'm just standing there like, this is insane. Yeah.
I can't even imagine. What was it like working with Blake? I have never met anyone with such a fierce work ethic in my life.
Like that woman does not rest, does not sleep. It's just constant work, work, work, mother, mother, mother, like watching her as a mom probably impressed me even more than even when we were at the movie, Kristen was like, she has four kids.
And we were like, I didn't realize I thought she had two or three maybe. And she was like, she has four kids.
I said, what? That's incredible. I honestly think, okay, we need to talk about the controversy that is aging the characters up.
I didn't really think it was a controversy because in the book, I know that they were a little bit younger, but I always pictured them exactly how they were casted. So even though I knew they were younger, it just felt natural to me.
I agree. I I wrote the book, oh God, it was like eight years ago.
I think yesterday was the anniversary of when it released. No, today, August, is today the second? Yeah, today's the second.
So when I wrote it, new adult was a big genre and that is college age characters. And so I was contracted to write new adult books.
And so no matter what the storyline at the time, I would just make them around like 23, 24, 25. And, um, I got away with like pushing Ryle's age up a little bit more than Lily's, but, um, same.
Like I, when I even wrote the book, I think I was probably like 35 at the time I was thinking, oh yeah, they're about my age so when the controversy came out about you know the characters ages I guess I just I don't know I didn't know if it was just blown up just for the because it was my page and I see everything related to my books or if it was actually an issue but I just didn't really care because I was happy about it absolutely and loved, um, so I watched Grey's Anatomy and then Owen's character made a cameo. I loved that.
Love him. I was so excited.
Um, how much involvement, if you're allowed to say, did you have in the casting? Like, were you able to like submit a list or, or like dream? I didn't really have any involvement in the casting, to be honest with you. I wasn't super involved early on.
I was having, I had other deadlines I had to meet writing wise. And, you know, you sell these film rights.
That was probably like the 10th one I'd sold. And then most of them revert back to you as an author because they never get made.
And so I, I really started off like, okay, yeah, if it happens, it happens. And, and not putting a lot of energy into it.
Right. Right.
So I can't take a lot of credit for, you know, the casting or anything. I know that Justin and I had talked when he bought the film rights about him potentially playing Ryle, and I thought that was a good idea, but obviously, you know, if you have him playing Ryle, you're going to have to age up Lily.
You can't have a 25 year old playing

that character. So, um, when he said that they were talking to Blake, I was like, yeah,

like that's going to happen. That's cute.
Justin, that's real cute. And so when it actually happened,

like I was, I was kind of stunned. No, I, the casting was incredible.
I think they,

all the characters really fit into it.

They did such a good job.

They did.

I mean, all of you guys did such a fantastic job.

But where do you specifically get the names for your characters?

Because I'm obsessed and no book I've ever read.

I think I've read 56 or seven books this year and none of the names compare to yours.

Oh, well, thank you. I feel like I get a lot of shit for my names.
Can I say that? Oh, of course. But I'm just shocked because like, I think there was a surge in the name Atlas after it came up.
No, I mean, I feel like when something's popular, it also gets a lot of hate. So I'm used to it.
But yeah, I have noticed. And there were actually two girls in line today that were in front of me at the airport.
And one of them has said something about her daughter, daughter Lakin. And I wrote slammed was my first book and Lakin was the main character.
And they were, both of them had daughters named Lakin and they were freaking out with each other and talking about the spellings and stuff. And I've wanted to say so bad, like, did y'all read my book by chance? But I just kept my mouth shut.
Cause that would have been embarrassing They would have loved that though. If they read the book.
But then they would want to go read it. True.
You know what I mean? True. I probably should have said something.
Yeah, for sure. For sure.
But, um, no, I usually use like, I go through baby books, like I'm naming a kid, which your kids have great names. If you ever want to use one, you have my full permission.
I probably will. Valley is a good one.
Verse is a good one. I love verse of Valley.
Like I saw that and I was like, Oh my God, those are so cute. Um, but yeah, I, I just, one thing for me as a writer, like, especially when I started out, social media is so big, especially like getting your books out there.
And when readers talk about your characters. So I always try to have one unique name.
Yeah. I try to make them up a lot that I haven't heard before.
And then one kind of normal name. So when readers talk about characters,

people kind of know like, oh, that's that book. And so I always do try to use names that haven't

been used a whole lot. Ryle's the first time, it ends with us, the first and only time I've ever

heard that name, but it's not like so far off that you're like, okay, that's weird. It's a cool name.
Yeah. It's really cool.
I honestly don't even remember where that one came from. Maybe a baby book.
Maybe. I love it because I've heard Lyle, Kyle, but Ryle is exquisite, truly.
I love it. Also, all of the names and reminders of him, which is one of my favorite books of yours, the names in there are fantastic.
Oh, thanks. Yes.
So there's usually some differences from a book to a movie adaptation. How do you feel about any of the changes or lack thereof? You know, I'm not super married to books when it comes to the movie, even as a viewer or, and a reader, like when, when they change things, I kind of understand it, you know, um, there have been times with, with other things that I'm passionate about that I get angry about, but with this one, like, you know, I was kind of in on most of the changes.
And so I was like, Oh yeah, I get that, you know, like changing the name of the restaurant from Bibbs to Root. It just fit the storyline better because we didn't have time to include like every single aspect of their childhood, like the specific magnet and the better in Boston and all this stuff.
Plus Bibbs sounds kind of funny, you know, for a grown man to have as a restaurant name. When you see it on a big sign in a movie, it just has a different feel than it it does in the book.
So yeah, there's definitely things that changed, but yeah, I'm not, I'm, it doesn't bother me. I feel like it betters the plot in the film that they're two different forms of art.
So it's necessary. Well, I also think that books are, I would say longer, right? So you have to do what you can to kind of tell the whole story and make it make sense.
You're condensing everything from 300 and something pages to 120 pages centered one line down the middle. And so it's like you're getting a fraction of the book and not only that, but you're not getting any internal dialogue in a script.
And so every single piece of internal dialogue, which there was a lot from Lily in this book has to be somehow turned into dialogue or expression or written into the movie in a different way. Like it's just extremely hard to capture a book completely, but I thought they did a phenomenal job.
They did. And I did like the little, um, the scene with Ellen, you still added that.
And then the journaling with Ellen. I loved that because that was a huge part of the book.
Yeah. I was glad that they got that in there, even though it was more like a nod.
It wasn't like a huge theme in the movie, but it just shows that they cared about making the readers happy, I think. For sure.
And I know that events in your personal life kind of inspired aspects of It Ends With Us. So do you pull inspiration from your own personal life for all your books? Never, never.
This was really like maybe twice. I have, I try to avoid using anyone I know in real life.
Yeah. But I have three boys and, and sometimes they're really funny.
So, you know, when they were little, I would include things that they said or, yeah, especially in my earlier books. Cause they were just at such a funny age.
Now they're all grown men and it's like, you know, Lauren is funny. I'm not going to put you in this book.
But yeah, I try not to. I don't want anyone in my hometown getting mad at me if they see themselves in a book or something.
I mean, I would be flattered. So if you ever want to write a book about me.
Yeah, I guess it depends on how I write them in. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. For sure.
So what is your writing process? Because I feel like some of your books are so different, but they can be so realistic, especially it ends with us, reminders of him. But then you have books like Verity.
So what is the writing process? And are they different for like a more so love story than maybe a thriller? I think it just depends on my mood. Okay.
I'm very much a writer that has to only write when I feel like it. I can't set a schedule.
I envy the writers who could sit down and have a word count every day. Does that happen? Yeah.
Oh, there's a lot of writers that are like, okay, I want to sit down and write 3000, 10,000 words today. You know what? I'm just like, yeah, I just, you know, hope I remember to put on a bra.
Like I am the most chaotic human. I, if there's anything on my schedule, I start to panic.
Like, um, I can't even sit down or write if I don't have like two weeks of nothing. Okay.
And then I will sit down and I will write for 18 hours straight a day. So it's sort of like mood reading, but mood writing.
Exactly. Do you take a notebook and pen everywhere you go? I use my notes app on my phone.
I have hundreds and hundreds of random notes to make no sense. I mean, I love, you know what they mean.
Sometimes.

Sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night and write random notes.

I used to share them with readers.

I need to do that again.

It was, it was pretty funny. Have you ever written a book and just scrapped it and never take it to publication or even try? Not really.
I mean, I've had ideas that I loosely outlined that I maybe haven't gotten to yet, but if I'm not feeling a story, I'm not going to get very far on it. Yeah.
Yeah. So if I get far enough to even call it a book, I'm going to finish it.
Yeah. Because that means that I'm thinking about it and obsessing over it.
And that's my problem is the last couple of years, I haven't really written much because I don't have an idea that I'm obsessing over and I refuse to just write for a paycheck. Right.
Because I feel like the readers can tell. I would agree.
I would, there's an author that I absolutely love. And some of the work I, it, it more so felt like, you know, you're pumping them out just to pump them out.
Um, and I'd rather, I'd rather wait. You know, we all, we all need to work.
I just, um, I'm fortunately in a position to where I can just write when I feel like writing. And, um, but yeah, I just, I wish, I wish I could do that and just sit down and spit it out.
Yeah. Do you think that you would ever write another book like Verity? Absolutely.
Oh my gosh. That was probably my favorite writing experience.
Are you serious? Yeah. I mean, that book is top tier.
I'm obsessed with it. Yeah.
Um, when my mom and sister read that book, they were like, there you are. Oh, where does this romance come from? Like, this is you you're fucked up.
Like I watch like car crashes to fall asleep at night. Like I'm very dark.
And so Verity to me was like, oh, this is so much fun. But I don't know.
I, I also enjoy writing romance. I don't know why I'm not a romantic person.
My husband buys me flowers. I get angry.
I'm like, that's 75 bucks, dude. They're just going to die.
Like, yeah. So I don't know.
No, not Lily, Alyssa, because she was like, wait, I don't, I don't love this. That's so funny though.
I'm also dark and twisted. And I just wonder like, why are we obsessed with death in this way? Yeah.
I don't know. Can we, do you also love to read romance? I love your romance novels.
Um, I'm not typically a romance girly. So I'm just also dark.
You know what I mean? We're twisted in all the best ways, right? Like, um, what was the hardest book to write? Probably Layla. Why? I don't believe in ghosts and it's paranormal.
I just really wanted to take a stab at paranormal. I was like, I've never done this before.
I want to try it. And it was very hard for me to finish that book.
Okay. Um, yeah, I didn't enjoy the writing process of that one.
So no more like paranormal ones. I'll probably never write a paranormal again with Verity., I loved it.
I consider it a very different book than Layla because I feel like it could have happened to me. Like if something can happen to me in real life, that scares me.
Yeah. Um, ghosts and demons and witches and things like that don't scare me in real life.
And so to me, I don't enjoy writing them. We are very aligned in that.
I typically, yeah, I would say the same. I typically don't fuck with for lack of better words, like the paranormal in real life and things like that.
But in any of your books, or maybe it ends with us specifically movie, whatever, do you feel like any of your personal qualities have seeped into your characters?

That's a good question. I don't think that there's a way to keep pieces of myself out of it.
You know, like I'm, I'm writing these characters and they have a lot of internal dialogue and, and a lot of times like the humor, even like I'm very sarcastic and I tend to put that into, into my I like levity and moments of pain. And so I think that in itself is a lot of me.
But I don't know. I don't know that I really truly live similar lives to any of my characters.
No. Or maybe I do.
I don't know. Maybe just some qualities.
Yeah yeah you know what i mean um do you have a least or favorite character from any of your books um do you remember all of them that's the better question because i don't remember my podcast after i say it i typically don't i have anxiety a little bit it airs and then i forget about the conversation right so do you? I, if someone brings it up, yeah. But if you were like to ask me like name all your characters, there's no way.
No, my sister yesterday asked me if I'd ever named a character a certain name. And I was like, I don't know.
I don't know. I would have to like literally go in and search every book that I've written.
And I'm not doing that for you. So, um, she was like, come on.
I think that I, this is so bad. I don't know if you've read too late, but I had so much fun writing ACEs character.
He's probably the most disturbing character I've ever written. Okay.
And, um, even over Verity. Yeah.
Yeah. And, oh, wow.
Okay. And so I had a lot of fun writing his character, but he probably is the character I hate the most.
Okay. So I guess it's a different answer, but the same.
Okay. I guess I enjoy writing characters that are the most unlike me.
Like, I really feel like I get to be free and make them do, you know, whatever. I love that.
I absolutely love that. Also loved Ledger and a reminder.
I keep bringing bringing up reminders reminders of him because i'm so happy you love that one that's the one i recommend to everyone really yeah that one and heartbones i was just fixing to say reminders of him and heartbones are probably the two i'm i'm the least embarrassed of is how why would you be embarrassed of any of your books oh my god i mean people i get so embarrassed to even tell people like if they ask me what I do for a living and then when they're like well what book should I read um Taryn Fisher I don't know that one was good I have that one too um uh you did one with Taryn Fisher right yeah never never that one we wrote I think so Taryn and I are best friends we've been best friends for about 14 years and we're both very dark and our readers know that And when we wrote Never Never, we wrote, I think, so Tara and I are best friends. We've been best friends for about 14 years and we're both very dark and our readers know that.
And when we wrote Never Never, we wrote it with

like 14 year olds in mind. Like for us, it was like a fun young book, but I think they all expected

this really dark thriller because that's what she usually writes. And so, um, we really want

to give people a dark thriller someday. Do you want to use my life as a plot? No, I'm just kidding.
But also Heartburns was... I say heartburn all the time.
I mean, I had a lot of it in my pregnancies, but Heartburns was the first Colleen Hoover book I ever read. Oh, really? And I just has, I connected with Bayes.
So is that, did I pronounce it correctly? Okay correctly okay because i know on audio if you ever listen on audio as you know i'm sure some of the names um aren't always pronounced the way that we say that's probably my fault because i think we're supposed to approve those files and i never listen to them well so it's like in it ends with us i think it's elisa and it's supposed to be elisa there's, um, probably it's my father. Well, it's not just, I haven't, I don't think I've ever listened to your audio books, but just I've read them, but other ones that I've listened to.
And one of my girlfriends texted me was like, is that how you pronounce it? And I was like, I don't know that was on the audio. So that's why, okay.
But so it's supposed to be Alyssa, but you wrote Alyssa or it was Alyssa. Um, so a reader won a contest to have their name in that book and that's how she spelled her name and it's Alyssa and, um, it is spelled different than you usually see Alyssa spelled.
And so I think that's where the confusion came in with the audio book. Cause I think most people were reading it as Alyssa.
Okay. And, um And I just didn't even know until like a year ago that it's completely pronounced different.
And I think it was actually when they were filming because they were like, how do you pronounce this character's name? Because it's different. Right.
In these two different areas. Well, I felt very connected to Marshall as well because I named my son Lincoln Marshall.
And so I was like, oh, like she totally got the inspo from. Yeah, absolutely.
I'll let Lincoln know. Well, you know, my middle son's name is Kel and I know a lot of people call you Kel, but he's, he's 20.
So, so that probably come from you. Yeah.
Usually people from the South or like the Midwest, they always say Kel. Yeah.
How do you say, like, how did, did they call you Kel instead of Kalen or Kale? Yeah, I go by Kale. But like Leah from Teen Mom, she would always say Kel.
Oh, yeah. And so it's always like Texas too.
Yeah. He spells it C-A-L-E.
Oh, so it's not. Is it Kale? I just, I'm from the South.
So it sounds like. Oh, his name is not Kel.
It's Kale. Kale.
Yeah. Oh, so we have the same name.
Yeah. Oh, I love that.
I love that. And he's a boy too, so that's cool.
You can like, if anyone wants inspo for names, Colleen and I have that in common. It's going to be Caleb, but then my oldest couldn't say Caleb, so he always called him baby Kel.
And so we just dropped the B and named him Kel. I love that.
Wait, so did you name him after he was born? I mean, wait. I get what you're asking me.
No, we dropped the B before he was born.

Oh, okay.

It was when I was trying to decide and then when my son, because we would talk about the baby,

you know, and then I was like, oh, that's even cuter than Caleb. I think I'm just going to go

with that.

If you named your kids so long after they were born, I would say we were aligned there too.

So I just was wondering.

What's the longest it took you? 63 days. Are you kidding me? Is that legal? Yeah.
You have 90 before you get fined in the state of Delaware. Which one? Lux.
Oh, you ended on a good one. So yeah, I, um, we, we struggled with that name.
Um, I loved it so much and I think it's kind of popular maybe in like, I think it was like Ireland or something for girls.

And then one of my other girlfriends loved that name.

And you have mostly boys, right?

Yeah, I have six boys, one girl.

And so we couldn't decide.

I was just like, well, I'm going to go with what my gut says, which was Lux. And truly, if anyone else named their kid Lux, I just don't think it would fit anybody the same way it fits mine.
You know what I mean? Just like the original, the OG. Do you have any characters in mind that have changed just the most changed character from conception to final manuscript? wow that's a good question um

in ugly love

I finished that book and turned it in. I don't know if you've read that one.

I have it also.

You know the old guy Cap that was the elevator attendant?

Okay.

His name was, they called him Cap, but he was, he was like who,

instead of trying to remember the characters,

because it's been so long since I wrote that book,

Tate, the girl, would like stop and talk to him, you know, all the time. And he ended up being like a confidant for her.
He wasn't in the book at all when I turned it in. And then I was like, man, she needs a friend.
This is missing something. And then I made her friend an 80 year old man.
So, um, that one, like I have instances like that where I'll write the book and then be like, oh, this is missing an entire character, you know, and then I'll just go in and like rewrite portions of it or slam to the first book I wrote. I don't want to spoil anything, but if anyone wants to read it, but Will, he worked at a grocery store in the first part the first outline right and then um have you ever read that one i didn't okay i don't want to say what he is can't you ever read it oh it's very different he ends up his job is very different from being working at a grocery store so he might be one of the more changed ones yeah okay cool that's really cool how's really cool.
How do you, when you're writing the novels, like how does that, how do you line up the dialogue, I guess, like the series of events and things like that? Like, do you write a script for one character and then turn around and write the other one and then try to match them up? Or how does that, how do you even? I've noticed like, I feel like writing books is kind of like raising your children. You raise them all differently.
You know, they all need certain things. And so it's very hard when people ask even for writing advice, because it just depends on the book.
Like some books I've written, depending on how they're written, um, I'll write all the past chapters first and then all the present day. Most often I write in consecutive order.
Like I have to start from the first scene, page one, and then get chapter one. Perfect.
Sometimes I'll write 20 chapter ones, like chapter one's the hardest for me. But then once I feel confident with my chapter one, then I'll go to chapter two, but I can't start chapter two until I read chapter one.
And I can't start chapter three until I read chapters one and two and then move on to three. And so it gets very like painstaking the further along I get in the books, I have to go back and like, make sure everything's lining up.
Right. Um, so when I'm done with the book, it's pretty much done.
I don't do a lot of rewrites. I don't do a lot of edits because I do so much of it as I'm writing that

I don't really change anything when I'm, when I'm, by the time I finished that last chapter,

because I've reread each chapter so many times. Um, but I don't think you, you can really find

two writers that do it the same way. No, that makes sense.
Yeah. I, um, I had a really hard time.
I wrote a book in 2014 and I, it took me like two and a half years, maybe three years just like, right. And then it's out of your head.
Once it's written down my head, it's out of my head once I write it. And then I'm like, okay, now I have to go back and figure out where does this fit in the timeline? And what if the timeline is off? You know what I mean? So I didn't know if it would be the same for fiction.
Yeah, it is. And I get timelines off sometimes.
Yeah. So what happens then you just have to like, kind of just edit it and tweak it.
Well, the publishers are really good about doing like, um, detailed edits where they keep notes and they'll have like, anytime you mention a day has passed or something, they'll do a timeline while they're editing it. And so sometimes when I know I'm off, I'll be like, oh, they'll figure it out.
Yeah. That makes sense.
Did you always want to be a writer or were you doing this? Oh yeah, absolutely. That's all I've ever wanted to do with my life.
But when I was like 20, I would say 19 or 20, I was actually in college for writing and found out that the average writer makes 10 grand a year. And I was pregnant with my first kid.
And I was like, there's no way I can live off this. And it was hard.
Like I was majoring in journalism and then had him and there, I just couldn't do the work. Like you would have to do interviews and all this stuff outside of your regular class hours.
And I'm like, I need, you know, I have a babysitter. I gotta go pick my kid up.
And so I changed my major to social work and did that for about seven years. I didn't even start writing my first book until I was 31.
So there is hope for the listeners of this podcast that are aspiring writers. Like you don't have to do this straight out of high school, straight out of college.
I did not go to school for writing. Um, I went to school for social work, which may be, you know, why a lot of my books are so, you know, messed up and dark.
But that's for life. Heavy subjects because that's what I did for a living too.
Yeah. Do you, have you pulled any inspo from like social work? Not really.
No, no. I mean, Verity has to be something of the imagination.
Verity, do you want me to tell you a little bit about where that came from? So I was, my mom and I were at the movies and we were watching this scary movie that we were about halfway through it. I was like, this is the most, and I'm not going to say what it was.
Okay. Maybe after this.
Yeah. When did we stop rolling? It was the most brilliant, scary movie I'd ever seen.
And I loved it. And I almost made a Facebook post.
It was like, everyone needs to go watch this. Well, then the last quarter of it was like demons or witches or something.
And I'm like, why, why didn't they just keep it realistic? And why'd they have to end it with this weird, weird ending? And like the whole way home, I was griping to my mom and she was like, yeah, I don't know why you write romance. Like just write a thriller, write something that can happen to you.
Cause I was saying like, that can never happen. Doesn't scare me.
Like anyway, so I went home that night and I outlined Verity based on my husband who cannot read my books because he finds it very, he's very concrete.

He has very little imagination. Love the guy.
But he gets very upset with my characters because he can't separate them from me. And he can't separate their actions from me.
And so I kind of took that and created Jeremy, who was kind of the same way and was like, you know, if my husband ever found a manuscript I'd been working on that kind of seemed like a biography, he'd be like, he'd believe every word of it. And so are you team letter or team manuscript? I think they're all messed up.
I do. Like there's not a character in the, but especially after you the extra chapter in the hardback like there's just not a character you can even root for.
But I truly think Verity's the most evil of them so I would say that I'm which one is that? Does team letter mean you believe the letter? i don't believe the letter i don't even

they're all i'm team manuscript yeah i am so i i don't know the truth honestly like i would have to dive into that book from verity's point of view because i wrote it from lowen's perspective and when she when i finished writing the book she was confused and didn't know the truth and so me as a writer was also confused and didn't know the truth. And so like if I were in Lohan's shoes, I would absolutely believe the manuscript.
I would be team manuscript. That's another good name.
Lohan was so good. And if my last name wasn't Lowry, one of my kids would be named Lohan.
Oh, that's cute. Lohan Lowry.
Stop. That's a mouthful though.
It is. I mean it is i mean so is valley lowry like that's crazy yeah but i wasn't thinking about the last name when i named her and i was just dead set on that name so i was like well if she marries a man and wants to take his name someday she'll have a different last name or she can keep it forever it's i think it's a um it's a strong name valley oh well thank you i'll let her know you said that you said how old is Valley uh she's nine months dang you got babies three of them and I'm like one of my uh so my son's stepmom and I we have a podcast together she came over I love that yeah yeah I mean we've come a long way and so she came over the other day and she all the babies were in the high chair just like in a line and she was And she was like, what the fuck? And I was like, I know this is every day.
And it was just like, I was just kind of feeding them and doing whatever. And she was just like, what is going on? Are your other kids pretty helpful with the babies? You know, I don't, I really don't like to ask them for help because I feel like it's not their like job, but they have really expressed interest in like entertaining them.
So I'll let them do that. So I'm like,'re gonna entertain them really quick i can go make a bottle i can get clean clothes like that was my least favorite part of mommy was having to play yeah you know what i feel like i can't talk about that to anybody because they're like but i really don't love to play i don't like it i don't i'll do it cartoons oh my god please don't.
Well also just like the action figures. I'm like, what do you want me to do? You want me to be violent with them? Like, I don't, you know, I just don't know.
Like, what do you do? So what did you do? Left it to my husband? You're like, just do this. No, they were very entertaining.
And you know, all three of my boys were pretty close in age. So luckily I didn't have to play a lot with them.
They entertain each other. They entertain each other.
I can't imagine like having an only child and having to be that only child's like sole source of entertainment. Yeah.
I was an only child and it was rough. It was so rough.
And if you don't have like cousins that are in your age group or like friends that you're always with, it's even harder. So I love, I knew once I had one kid, I was like, I have to have more.
So, um, but I did hear rumors that Verity is also being picked up. Oh, that's exciting.
Are you allowed to talk about any of it? I think so. Okay.
Um, it actually got sold like four years ago. Yeah.
It's been a long time in the works. A lot of things take a long, long time.

And I think the momentum of It Ends With Us has helped Verity take off, but they finished the

script on that one and we're in talks on cast and director and everything right now. So hopefully

they'll start filming soon. That's really exciting.
Do you think you'll cast any of the same that you

or them or all of you collectively would cast any of the same characters from it ends with us um because who who nicholas sparks was the one that casted rachel mcadams for like all of his movies was it him he used her for quite a few i think it was him i'm not entirely sure don't quote me on that but there was an author that was like pretty much consistent with the i don't know that i would want to do that like i obviously would love for a lot of these actors because they did such a good job i love them to be in a lot of it but like that would even confuse me if it were my books and my characters to see the same actor playing two different of my characters like i don't know yeah i think as a as a view i i'm not super familiar with nicholas sparks works but i did see the notebook um and i don't know that i would love that like then going to watch another movie yeah as the lead yeah i think that would be a little bit hard for me as like a consumer of it but um so i'm i'm glad to hear that that's all happening i'm so excited for for verity i loved it ends with us so so so so much and how do you feel about the um all the covers i didn't realize how many covers there were for it ends with us also are there a lot yeah so there's two here and then i have i guess what would be the original one where it's like um like oh yeah because they put it in hardback finally so it was out several years before they put it out in hardback. And so there's the, the original cover with the, that looks kind of like similar to this one, similar to that one.
Then they put it in hardback. And then of course they always do a tie in addition with one or two of the actors on it.
So, um, but like one of my favorite things about being an author is getting the foreign covers in the mail because every foreign contract you sign, they, they have to redo the cover because they don't own the same, like, you know, picture rights and stuff. Okay.
And so almost every book from every country that's translated has a different cover. And so I love getting those in the mail and seeing what they did with it.
What do you, do you collect your own? Like, do you have a cover of each book? I do. I, um, I, I save one for myself and then they usually send five, like they're contracted to send five to the author.
I think that's how it works. You're like, I don't know.
We just go with the flow. And I usually get five in the mail.
So I'm just assuming, but, um, yeah. And so sometimes I'll just, um, have giveaways for giveaways for foreign covers yeah for sure because there's a lot of people out there that collect like their favorite books in different languages that's really that's a cute idea actually to like start a collection in that yeah that's a really good idea also is there going to be any sequels of any books coming out maybe heartbone sequel how's bae doing i don't know never thought about doing a heartburn sequel.
How's Bayou doing? I don't know. Never thought about doing a

heart bone sequel. We could collab.
We could like totally just give me all the ideas. I bet you

think about it. You have them mapped out, don't you? I do.
I, you know what? I almost got a heart

bone statue because I, but I, I don't know if I want the pinwheel. I must, is that the original

cover? The pinwheel one? No, no. Okay.
So my little sister, this is an interesting story. Maybe

My little sister is a cover designer. She got into book editing and cover designing after I wrote my first book.
And so she did the original cover to heart bones, which was like flower. It was a white with flowers and two skulls on it.
And, um, when we sold it to a publisher, cause I self published that one. And then when I sold it to a publisher, they changed the cover, but she also did the pinwheel cover.
Okay. Okay.
I just didn't, I couldn't decide if I wanted the pinwheel or cause I have a skull, but it's not the same. So I'm like, I don't know, but I love that one.
Um, I kind of want a pinwheel tattoo. Yeah.
We could go get them together. I don't know Maybe We talked about social media and book talk

But how do you think that that's impacted you as an author? Do you think that it helps? Do you think it hurts? Do you read? Both. Okay.
Yeah. I think book talk is kind of nice though, because I feel like it puts underrated books on the map.
You know what I mean? Yeah. No book talk.
I think I can absolutely credit book talk for what's happened to my career in the past few years. Really? Yeah.
Which is just crazy because the entire time I've been publishing since day one of self publishing my first book every single day, I'm like, Oh, this is as good as it's going to get. I better enjoy this.
And so really like maybe like four years ago, I literally did not think it could get any bigger. I was like, this is great.
I've made this great career. Um, you know, my books hit the New York times.
Like I had this great fan base and then COVID happened and TikTok happened and it was insane. Like how much it blew up, like almost overnight.
It was crazy. So book talk absolutely changes authors' lives.
I've definitely discovered authors that I wouldn't have otherwise, you know, maybe discovered from social media, which I love. Yeah.
It's just also very different. Like before people started, you know, and it's not just book talk, it's just social media in general.
You know, you get kind of rewarded for negativity now, like you get more views. If your videos are negative, you get paid more money.
And so it's kind of like this reward system. Like, and so it's harder, I think for me to be online now, because I just would rather not see that stuff.
So I just stay away from it. So I miss it.
I love social

media. I loved being online.
I loved being interactive, but just probably during the

pandemic, it all felt very different and still feels very different for me. So I just don't

partake in it very much anymore. I got on TikTok during COVID.
We were all bored. I didn't know

what to do, but I didn't actually discover book talk until probably the last 18 months. I'm fairly

Thank you. because we were all bored.
I didn't know what to do, but I didn't actually discover book talk until probably the last 18 months. I'm fairly new to it.
Um, and it's changed my life. I really don't scroll as much.
People are like, where do you find the time? Where do you? And it's just like, I don't, I try not to scroll because it's so negative. And if I scroll, it's on booktop to find new books.
So it's, it's really changed my life in a positive way, but I could totally see like the negative and not wanting to stay on.

Cause.

And that's just social media, but.

It's chewed me up and spit me out.

Just the whole book world in general and how much it took off during the pandemic has been

incredibly awesome to watch.

And I have so many friends who benefited from it career-wise it's it's it's insane do you have a dream collab for maybe like i know you you did a book never never um would you have a dream collab for maybe like, I know you, you did a book, Never Never. Would you have a dream collab with anybody else or you just want to keep it with that one? It's very hard to write a book with someone.
It's very hard to write a book by yourself and then to try to match you know know, your, um, energy and your timing and your writing style with someone else. It is super hard.
I'm not going to say it was the most enjoying time. I think Taryn and I would both say it was probably the hardest book we've worked on because you're not only like disappointing yourself, if it doesn't turn out how you feel like you're disappointing the person

you worked with. I don't know.
It's, it's weird. It almost feels like double.
It should feel like

half the word, but it feels like double. Yeah.
So I really enjoy writing by myself.

I could, I could see where that would be unless we do our sequel for heartbones. I mean,

I'm always available for you, Colleen Hoover. Do you have a favorite author? Um, I have a lot.
I think, um, Tiffany. Okay.
She's my friend. I should know how to pronounce her last name.
We can edit this too. Like if you, I mean, she probably would think it's funny that I still don't know.
But forever I kept calling her dad by the wrong name. Um, and her dad has the same name as mine.
So, um, Tiffany day Bartolo or day Bartolo. I don't know.
Tiffany. We love Tiffany.
Love her books so much. She's such a fantastic writer.
And then Taryn, of course, I just think her sentences are art. I love Kennedy Ryan.
I love Lisa Jewell writes good thrillers. There's just so many that could go on and on.
I just read my first Kennedy Ryan book. Her words, I mean, just the way that she tells the story.
I was so impressed and just I loved it. So I have her next book on my, it's, this could be us on my August TBR.

Before I like.

Yeah.

And then I saw that she was submitting her third one and like, so it would be like a

trilogy.

So I thought that was cool.

But I absolutely loved her.

That was the first book that I read of hers.

So you've done the books, you've done the movies.

What other endeavors do you have going on?

Are you just sticking with the books and the movies for now?

Do you have a publishing house?

Thank you. absolutely loved her.
That was the first book that I read of hers. So you've done the books, you've done the movies.
What other endeavors do you have going on? Are you just sticking with the books and the movies for now? Do you have a publishing house coming out? Like, I'm just trying to catch up on my Bravo shows. I'm two seasons behind on below deck.
Um, I'm going to learn how to play the guitar. Okay.
But I would never play in front of someone. I want to learn for myself yeah no I love that yeah and you could also maybe down the road create a character that also learns how to play the guitar yeah that would be cool that would be I feel like the guitar would be the hardest instrument I don't know I've tried it and it just I'm just not I agree I'll give it a shot every now and then and I'll make it like five minutes.
Yeah. And then I'm like, no, not for me.
But then I always regret not sticking with it. My son's learning how to play the banjo and I'm getting really jealous because I hear him upstairs when I'm at his house.
And I'm like, oh, it actually sounds like music. Yeah.
I want to do that. That is so cool.
But yeah, like stage fright, no way could I ever. So you don't like public speaking? No.
Same. I also failed that when I went to community college before I got my degree, you couldn't pay me to get up there and talk to people.
Like I wasn't doing it. So I don't know how I ended up here, but.
And I bet people try now. Oh yeah.
They want me to public. And I'm like, to do what? Embarrass myself? Yeah.
Yeah. I don't, that's not for me at all.
But isn't it weird? Like you, I know you're very good at podcasts. I love like situations like this and Q and A's.
I could do a Q and A where readers are just firing questions at me all day long, but you get me up there to talk about a particular subject. I will forget my name.
I get such stage fright. Like it's a whole different vibe.
I think we just never get used to it. There's some people that it's, they're okay with it, but I'm just not, it's not for me for sure.
Not. Um, okay.
So possibly new thrillers in the future. It's possible.
Possible. Verity is in the works.
Um, did you ever have specific intentions for the ending of Verity before readers kind of put their input? No, you didn't. It was just kind of like...
No, I was two weeks away from publishing it. It had a different ending.
And I woke up one night and was like, that's not how it ends. And I got up and rewrote the ending two weeks before it released.
Because I self-published that one could do that. Like I could rewrite it and then put the new file in there.
I mean, couldn't do that if you were with the publisher. Oh, I know.
I wanted to change the cover of my books and he's like, absolutely not. I'm like, but they're outdated.
And I know. Yeah.
Yeah. But I had people, so I wanted to read Verity for so long.
It was on my TBR and everyone was like, you need to wait until you're not pregnant with the twins because – Yeah. I'm glad they told you that.
Did you wait? I did wait because the twins made me weak. And so I don't know what happened in that pregnancy, but I couldn't stomach anything.
Yeah. So once I had them, then I – it was actually the first book I read after they were born.
And then I understood why. didn't really even give me too much detail on why.
Um, I think they might've mentioned like, oh, there's twins, like just chill out for a second. Um, and then I got it and then I got it and I was like, okay.
Yeah. It's a very dark book.
I get so uncomfortable when teenagers email me and like, I just read Verity. I'm in ninth grade.
You're like, wait a minute. That wasn't my target audience.
That's so funny. Um, it's not funny, but it's funny.
Um, but so my, I have a book club and I brought you some stickers and bookmarks that with my book club stuff. Um, if you are reading anything, what are you reading anything right now? No, I'm not.
I almost bought a book at the airport today, but I've just been so in movie mode that I haven't had time. How do you even come out of that? Like, how do you adjust? I don't know.
I got an email today about Verity about like they were needing me to give feedback on a list of casts or something. And I'm like, I can't.
I can't even open that document. I can't get out of like this mode and these interviews that I'm doing all weekend.
And then, um, you know, I don't know. That's just me.
I'm not a multitasker. And not everyone is.
I've learned over the years that my ADHD just fully takes over, but I'm also not a multitasker, but I, I, it's out of my control. So I completely understand that.
Um, I so appreciate you coming on Barely Famous. I appreciate you inviting me.
I'm so excited. I'm so excited to meet you.
I hope you let me take a selfie with you. Oh, absolutely.
Will you do it? It's like a literal 15 second TikTok. No, I'm done.
Okay. I'm just kidding.
I was like, you know what? I'm going to shoot my shot and hope for the best. All right, you guys, it ends with us.
The movie is out now exclusively in theaters. And if you haven't already, go get all of Colleen Hooper's books.
Let us know what you guys think of the

movie. It ends with us.
And let us know on our socials if we should get the pinwheel tattoo