spICE on fire with Geri Halliwell-Horner

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Speaker 1 Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.

Speaker 1 It's your fae villain, Kayla.

Speaker 1 And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Speaker 1 Today's episode is bringing you a full dose of girl power, and by that, I mean who you might know as Ginger Spice. We know her as Jerry Hollowell Horner.

Speaker 1 And not only is she a pop icon, she's also a writer. And I absolutely love her.
This is like me trying not to fan girl. Jerry is inspiring a whole new generation of girls with her new book.

Speaker 1 She has Rosie Frost, the duology that she is working on.

Speaker 1 She started it in 2023, the first book released, and now April 2025, the second book in the duology is out this is jerry hollowell horner and let's get right into it jerry welcome to the barely famous podcast i'm so happy you're here oh thank you very much for having me i loved the history lesson on henry viih you're so welcome i loved it and we have to talk about your books because i am a huge reader and i love reading so you sort of transitioned from you know you're a mom you are you know you were a pop star and now you're an author you're a best-selling author so let's talk about it how does it feel it feels amazing actually I mean I always

Speaker 2 have studied English literature before I went into music okay so it was kind of I always loved the power of words I didn't have a lot of money when I was younger but I always found a love of reading I could escape

Speaker 2 and you can learn so much

Speaker 2 just through the power of a book yes it definitely is a superpower if you can really get your head in the game of

Speaker 2 reading

Speaker 2 and then

Speaker 2 and so

Speaker 2 you know, having a book, and I've written books before for younger, but then I thought, oh, I'd really like to do a series of for older, but for everyone, because I'm a reader myself, it doesn't matter what you know, age bracket is meant to be in.

Speaker 2 And so, having you know, this series come out and be a success, I'm like, I'm so grateful, you know, that dreams do come true. This is a dream come true, but and lovely to share it with you.

Speaker 2 You're amazing. Why do you say that?

Speaker 2 Well, look, to everyone listening at home, you know, you don't know me very well, and I don't know you listening, but you know, and I don't know this lovely lady, Kale, very well.

Speaker 2 But in the few minutes that she's telling me about herself, you know, and feel free to edit this out.

Speaker 2 But I'm hearing, my goodness, what a strength of a woman to, you know, have all these children, bring them up, be a businesswoman, educate herself show interest look beautiful I'm like wow that is really inspiring so slay you you are like the icon behind girl power you're the originator of this right like you have taught young girls that you can do all the things you can be a mom you can be a pop star you can be an author you can be educated you can be all of that you yeah

Speaker 2 I think we all learn from each other if I can see it we you know we can be it yeah and you know so I was always watching television and thinking you know american television watching the a team you probably you're not old enough to remember that but

Speaker 2 i always firmly believe that you

Speaker 2 books or movies or music just brought me up and inspired me so wonderful that you know people think that of me but actually it's just a baton that gets passed on have you ever read by any other name by jody pico no is it good it would be right up your alley i feel yeah by any by any other name yes okay i'll can you write it down?

Speaker 2 So I can.

Speaker 1 You absolutely need to read it down.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I love the recommendation.

Speaker 1 Based on the history lesson of Henry VIII and, you know, women, and you talked about how he was like 55 and he married a 15-year-old. Very,

Speaker 1 by any other name would be right up your alley.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think you would really like it.

Speaker 1 So you first, your first ever book was in 1998. Yeah, that's right.
And that was a memoir.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What has it been like transitioning from writing memoirs to children's books to now fiction?

Speaker 2 I think,

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 I tell you what was the game changer for me.

Speaker 2 There was this book called The Artist's Way.

Speaker 2 I don't know what she, like, everybody in this room, three people have just nod, going, I know this book. And actually, four people have nodded, I know this book.
Five people have nodded.

Speaker 2 The artist's way. I read that book and it changed my life because I followed it to the letter.

Speaker 2 And it gives you a, for those who don't know, it gives you a series of instructions to really awaken the artist in with you.

Speaker 2 If you want to pivot, if you want new direction, if you want to find out what's in inside you, it gives I really firmly believe the answers are within you, all of you, whatever path you want to take.

Speaker 2 And I read this book, did the challenges, it makes you sort of awaken.

Speaker 2 And this, and so I wrote my first

Speaker 2 children's book. This was for very very young children, you know, this is seven years, six to seven-year-olds, and I thought there's a gap in the market.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I did Eugenia Lavender, it did very well. Okay, bit of a gap.
And what I loved about writing, you can do it anywhere when your kids are at school,

Speaker 2 or you know, if you're traveling, it's not, you know, it doesn't tie you down. You can still,

Speaker 2 and you get really to be,

Speaker 2 you get to be the boss, you know, which is fantastic in so many ways.

Speaker 2 And so, to be able to, you know, to develop

Speaker 2 just through experience you know it's just it's really a wonderful thing yeah and how have your have your fans from you know

Speaker 1 I guess from where you started in music to now sort of followed you into your reading and writing journey I have to say they have because

Speaker 2 one the sort of genesis is always the same in me because you know I want the story to inspire you but I mean Rosie Frost is a page turning adventure you know for any because I'm a reader myself I feel very very

Speaker 2 like I it's a I've got to it's paramount of importance to me that it's page turnery but there's there is something I'm a curious person I'm nerdy I like facts and all of that just a little bit but and then there's a little bit of love there but all

Speaker 2 you invest in the characters you know know, Rosie and Jackson, and Beena, and Charlie, and Ottilie, she's just like a slay queen.

Speaker 2 You just think, I love you, and she's funny, but they all have an arc, and you process things through them

Speaker 2 and escape with them.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 I feel very responsible as a reader myself to make sure

Speaker 2 that you feel

Speaker 2 held and heard, and you can't put it down. Absolutely.
But then also,

Speaker 2 to give you value, in the back of the book, you've got a song.

Speaker 2 So if you were a fan, you know, of my previous, you know, incarnation, then you're going to get some music in there just for you. You just scan it.

Speaker 1 I do love as a reader when books have like a playlist at the end or some kind of song that just adds an extra layer, a little elevated

Speaker 2 favourite book.

Speaker 1 Oh, The Nightingale.

Speaker 2 Oh, I haven't read that.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, it's a World War II historical fiction.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Yeah.
The Nightingale.

Speaker 1 By Any Other Name, which is by Jodi Pico, and that's also historical fiction. And then I also loved Wild Dark Shore just came out.

Speaker 2 Okay. Historical fiction is brilliant.
And that's how I got

Speaker 2 entry into this kind of genre is because I read The Other Berlin Girl. Okay.
And she, Philippa Gregory, is like the sleigh queen of that genre.

Speaker 2 But what I try to do with Rosie Frost is it's set in present time,

Speaker 2 but the heritage of her background, the school where she's at, has got, or if you like history, it's all in there. If you want a little bit of science, it's all in there, but it's murderous.

Speaker 2 So you keep paychurning for whatever reason suits you. Yes.

Speaker 1 So there's a third book coming. Yeah.
So we

Speaker 2 yeah, I'm in it already. I'm yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How do we feel about that? Do you see it becoming like a TV series, a movie, anything like that?

Speaker 2 Very exciting. I'll circle back when I'm, you know, when I can.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, that's exciting news, right? And how do you balance all of it between, you know, motherhood and, you know, everything else that you're doing and then writing too?

Speaker 1 Because as you said, you can do it anywhere. But also,

Speaker 1 I've written books and sometimes it consumes you, right? Like, because you're like, all I can think about is what's next in the novel. So how do you, how do you balance all the things?

Speaker 2 I think it's, um,

Speaker 2 I think it's letting, letting going of it letting go of it perfectly.

Speaker 2 Sometimes a bit of discipline, you know, getting up and no matter what, just meet the, you know, the page at nine o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2 And then, you know, and so really using the time for a few hours, you're at your desk, phone outside, and that's no distractions.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 2 But then sometimes you're going to get inspired. Yes.

Speaker 2 I think I've become much more guarded of my time. Okay.

Speaker 2 You know, that it's I'm not gonna have so much fruit I mean you've haven't you've got a lot of children that want your attention yep I've got and I love being a mother so you know to show up for them and for myself my artists within me to feel satisfied just takes I think it takes a bit of practice to juggle it all yeah you just think okay

Speaker 1 and also forgiveness when you sometimes you're not going to get it perfect yeah do you think that you have included pieces of yourself in your characters or pieces of your family?

Speaker 2 Definitely definitely, but or people around me

Speaker 2 it's like being a I think it's like being a chef that you sort of take oh I take that person the Bina the character in there.

Speaker 2 She's a little bit of my someone that I know and then someone else I know that this child that I know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But so you keep the anonymity.

Speaker 2 You can't help it.

Speaker 2 You can't help it. But fundamentally, I think there is a level in all of us that

Speaker 2 is the same. This is a generalization.
We all want to be loved and heard and even in the best of us there's a little bit of

Speaker 2 you know that there's the worst of us and in the worst of us you know there's a little bit of greatness too. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 So I sort of make try and make well-rounded characters that we can all connect with. And I love that.
And you should watch their journey and surprise and cry when they die.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, that's the worst.

Speaker 2 I hate when that happens. Yeah, they've got to though.
Yeah. They have to.

Speaker 2 You have to make, you know, someone always has to die. Yeah.
You have to cry in a book. And I always endeavor to make you cry and laugh and laugh out loud.

Speaker 2 There's bits in it that I'm like, I sort of was muttering with humor when I was like

Speaker 2 a certain chapter. I'm like, that's quite amusing to me.

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Speaker 1 Did you know that you always wanted to be a writer? Like when you're going on world tours and you're.

Speaker 2 Yeah, before I would say,

Speaker 2 like, I was studying English literature and then my path took another way, but I did contemplate at one point being a journalist. Okay.

Speaker 2 So I did think about it, and it was always useful, you know, with you know, within the band to contribute in that level. I found it really,

Speaker 2 you know, I could give authentically,

Speaker 2 you know, the power of words and ideas, right? You know, and sort of that sort of landscape of it. I've really enjoyed that bit, you know, whatever it came to.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, whether it was videos, you know, your storytelling within a song is like a coffee shot of a story, whereas a book is just a longer feast.

Speaker 1 Did you share any of the same in, like, did any of the girls that you toured with or other celebrities that you met along the way share the same interests as you with like writing and books and things?

Speaker 2 I'll tell you who

Speaker 2 gave me the

Speaker 2 the first piece of advice do you know who dawn french is she's a comedian okay no she was in french and saunders she used to be in um

Speaker 2 what did she be she was really good if you look at vicar of dibley she's really funny okay and she's so clever and she's brilliant comedian she told me leave the phone outside that was the first bit

Speaker 2 but i love i love sharing like love of books yeah people so you go what did you think of that bit Yeah, a good one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What is your favorite book of all time?

Speaker 2 Would you say? It's so hard to say. I mean, you must have that thought a lot because

Speaker 2 ones that stay with you.

Speaker 2 For example, Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe. I read that as a child.
Amazing. But then I've, you know, in my 30s, I remember reading The Book Thief.
Okay. And that was so different and incredible.

Speaker 2 And then I read

Speaker 2 There's Surprise, Hamlet. Have you read that? Okay, that's oh my god, that makes you cry.

Speaker 1 You need to read The Nightingale.

Speaker 2 Okay. But sometimes I think, oh my goodness, do I really want to cry? Tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow? That's another one that will make you cry.

Speaker 1 I think you, I feel like you love crying a lot.

Speaker 2 No, I don't, but then I don't want to. Like, I picked one up the other day and it started, it felt a bit different.
I thought, no, I'm just going to watch a comedy.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Either laughing or crying, no, in between.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's extreme.

Speaker 1 Do you have a favorite comedian?

Speaker 2 Do you know what i'm gonna say this i'm watching the studio seth roger seth rogan yes he's so funny he's so funny

Speaker 2 i didn't like forgive me seth but i had no idea how funny he is have you met him no oh you should we should be nice i don't know i've never met him but he seems like he would be nice he comes he's brilliant

Speaker 1 Have you met any comedians? I don't think I've met any comedians now that it like because normally comedians are like

Speaker 2 They're normally a little bit not as funny when you meet them. Yeah, I always wonder that because I feel like comedians storing it all up, the nuances for that moment.

Speaker 1 They gotta make sure their jokes hit, right? Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. Um, so what, what is your favorite hat to wear, right?

Speaker 1 Like, you, I know that you are all the things, but what is your favorite hat to wear?

Speaker 2 Can you pick one? I mean, they're all like Batman suits. I don't know.
What does your tattoo of the bee mean?

Speaker 1 My one of my twins, um,

Speaker 1 his name is Verse, and he verse yeah yeah and why did you call him verse

Speaker 2 i just love that name it's i guess that word verse verse like from the bible verse verse yeah

Speaker 1 so i this

Speaker 1 wonderful woman in australia made i guess she what they call them jumpers like a sweater she hand-knitted it yeah and it said his name on it and it had little bumblebees on it and so ever since she gifted that to me i associate like i think of bees when i think of verse and I think of verse, I think of bees, and I just love them.

Speaker 2 I think they're so cute.

Speaker 2 And how old is Verse?

Speaker 1 He's one.

Speaker 2 Oh, my goodness. And the twin?

Speaker 1 Valley.

Speaker 2 Valley. Valley and verse.
Did you know that you were going to have twins?

Speaker 1 I found out I was going to have twins right away, but I thought they were both going to be boys.

Speaker 2 Interesting, but this is two eggs.

Speaker 2 Two eggs. Yeah.
Okay, so that means it's in your family.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, it's in my family and also, I know it doesn't come from the male, but he also, his mom's a twin. and I didn't know that.
Yeah, so it does come from the mom's side.

Speaker 1 A lot of people think that if the dad has twins, it's genetic, but it's not. It's not true.
Yeah, it's mothers.

Speaker 1 And so, we have them in my family, and he has them in his, which is really weird.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Amazing.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, we have our little version of the children.

Speaker 2 You're like the Waltons.

Speaker 1 I don't know what that means. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 You need to go and look back at American history. Okay.
The Waltons.

Speaker 1 Do you think we'll make history?

Speaker 2 Potentially. I hope so.
Yeah, of course you're making history. Okay, ask one of your friends,

Speaker 2 whose mothers or relatives that are slightly older

Speaker 2 about the Waltons. And they will know exactly what I'm about to say.
And they went,

Speaker 2 good night, Grandpa.

Speaker 2 Good night,

Speaker 2 Grandma.

Speaker 2 And they all said, and there was about seven of them, the kids. There are seven kids.

Speaker 1 I have seven of them today.

Speaker 2 Okay, yeah. So that's what I think.
You need to go and watch it. Just Google the Waltons.
Okay, I'm going to that'll be my on my drive home it was all it was always a very loving

Speaker 2 family experience okay i hope like that has a warm place in my heart the waltons okay and are they an american family yes oh it's a big american tv show i don't think i used to watch as a little girl and they lived up on this valley uh-huh so valley inverse yes and um

Speaker 2 It was just very charming, but they, you know,

Speaker 2 they'd face their adversities together.

Speaker 2 when you say you grew up watching it so did you live in the UK and you just toured here or did you eventually move here no I lived in the UK but we all had American television oh you did so why don't we get like the BBC well you can now but we had things like the Waltons the A team

Speaker 2 Like we were flooded Charlie's Angels.

Speaker 2 We were flooded with American television. Oh, interesting.
And then we'd watch these movies and back in the day you only had a few channels and you'd think, America,

Speaker 2 Ghostbusters, and you'd see New York and think, wow.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but when you actually got to New York, how did you feel?

Speaker 2 No, it was still really charming. Do you know what it was? I remember.
Because I'd only ever seen America on big movies. Right.
You know, yellow cabs or big limousines.

Speaker 2 You have this idealization of what it's going to be. But I remember when I first arrived in Los Angeles and I saw a limousine, I was like, wow.
This was when limos weren't, you know, so available.

Speaker 2 Now everyone gets a limo just for their birthday party. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 But then it was like a big deal. And I saw it and I was like, oh my God, I felt like I was in a movie.

Speaker 1 Did they not have that?

Speaker 2 Not really. It was a very much more American culture, I think.

Speaker 1 So the difference between...

Speaker 1 I guess the celebrity world here and in the UK is very different?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I think you start to sort of homogenize and merge into one.
But I would say back when I was younger, there was a much more,

Speaker 2 it just felt very, very adrenalized and

Speaker 2 it felt really optimistic and we can do it. Yeah.
You know, so I was brought up with that.

Speaker 2 energy watching it and thinking yeah that's it that's what's the dream yeah yeah fame there was a tv show called fame yeah it's like okay you need to look at these programs they're american they're your heritage.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Fame is another one. Okay, I'm gonna look it up.

Speaker 1 That'll be my homework on the way home.

Speaker 2 Yeah, totally, and it's got a really good soundtrack.

Speaker 1 We're all about the music. Have you been on Book Talk lately? Do you get on Book Talk?

Speaker 2 No, I

Speaker 2 haven't been on it lately, but

Speaker 1 so I know you're on Goodreads. The books are on Goodreads.
I don't know if you're on Goodreads, but I did see the books on Goodreads, so they're definitely there.

Speaker 1 But I was going to say, I think Book Talk has really taken off and really helped authors with getting their books out to new audiences.

Speaker 1 And so, I was going to ask what you thought maybe the reaction to your books has been on Book Talk, but I can let you know.

Speaker 2 Can you let me know? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 I can. I can.

Speaker 1 Because I know that Rosie Frost, the first book, because this is a duology right now, but it will be a trilogy. Yes.
And book one was a New York Times bestseller. Yes.
How did that feel?

Speaker 1 What did you say when you got the news?

Speaker 2 It's like mind-blowing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 extreme gratitude.

Speaker 2 I just feel incredibly grateful that, you know, this is connected.

Speaker 2 That's all you can hope for. Yeah.
100%.

Speaker 2 Because it's very exposing and

Speaker 2 you just go for it. Yeah.
But when people connect, it's just so rewarding. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's really nice. And I'm sure you have...

Speaker 1 people of all ages that come to your signings because they know a lot of you know people my age knew who you were growing up and then we're also having kids and explaining to our kids who you are but then they know you as an author not as a pop star yeah and so that's kind of cool yeah it's very cool and so but i try and write books that

Speaker 2 if whatever it's ageless timeless so you i can read it my 15 year old could read it yeah a good reader 10 year old could read it but also a 47 year old could read it anyone can yeah and you'll get what you need out of it if you just want page turning fast adventure that's it but if you want you know nerdy fact it's in there yeah if you want relationship like, are you going to cry or kiss?

Speaker 2 It's in there.

Speaker 1 Not the first kiss.

Speaker 2 I can't. The first kiss is in there.
Yep. Period.
The fear.

Speaker 1 Which is my oldest is around that age.

Speaker 2 Okay, the first kiss is in there. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, I'll let him know.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Here you go.
It sort of touches on it in a very, I'm quite proud of the way it touches on love, just very gently, that confusing time.

Speaker 2 And actually, what it says in that, that 14-year-old, she's just turning 14 it's the age of power and we go through different chapters in our life where we suddenly go do you know what this is a new chapter I'm reclaiming it I'm I'm owning my identity and that can happen whether you're 14 27

Speaker 2 35 you know different periods and where you all go like okay this is a new phase right yeah no i think that's relatable for everybody and i think we all change sort of not identities but we go through that throughout our lives of Evolution, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 I think exactly.

Speaker 1 Um, so we talked briefly touched on a third book in the works, which is really exciting. But what do you think the main difference is?

Speaker 1 And I sort of already touched on this, but what do you think the main difference is between writing a memoir?

Speaker 1 Like, were you writing real-life things that were happening as they as they were happening, and then this was like you're setting deadlines for yourself, and it was a little bit different?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 there is a saying you can either write on they call it pants or premise.

Speaker 2 I said, Do you know this yeah yeah

Speaker 2 and so and the first book i was just um the first rosie i was just writing you know by the receipt of my pants i didn't really plan okay i did plan character that always stayed the same but the actual premise i kind of knew

Speaker 2 and then

Speaker 2 with book two with experience another author said to me why don't you just write an outline first

Speaker 2 but i always knew and i know what my ending is for the end of book three I always knew that from the beginning. Okay.

Speaker 2 And you put yourself in, and you know, but then there is structure, and you become attached to the characters.

Speaker 2 Whereas I think an autobiography is much more, in certain ways, a cathartic experience. I would agree.
Do you know what I mean? It's just like

Speaker 2 this happened, and this, and you're processing as you do it.

Speaker 2 So, and I did that many, I mean, it was a quarter of a life. You know, I was only 26 when I went to do it, so you've done it too.

Speaker 2 Then, you know, I always think actually, when people come up and say, Oh, I went through that too, that was useful. And that's quite nice, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, has anything that you experienced, both I guess, as a pop icon, but also writing the memoirs shaped the way that you

Speaker 1 shaped your characters?

Speaker 2 Yeah, there is something in here that I've put in all the way through, actually, and that is

Speaker 2 about grief.

Speaker 2 Okay, so if you want page turning adventure that's it you're gonna get it right but there is a little bit of I call it iceberging a subtext to the character Rosie Frost she's lost her mother and we know lots of orphans in different stories but actually she you see you feel her process losing her mother

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 and if you ever experience grief like I did when I was younger my dad died when I was young and I had this constant feeling that I didn't know how to process and everyone's quite in the west quite

Speaker 2 conservative quite modest about their feelings whereas in the east they were very much about you know everyone passes and how you process it and so I had this sort of contained feeling within me that I felt quite stuck when I was younger okay and so looking at that I put it in the book that you know Rosie she's going through that feeling of like she's quite angry actually and she's sort of really trying to put a lid on it

Speaker 2 and uh so she i think everything is copy everything is useful right you know whatever you've experienced with your your own child and your beginning and what the subtext of this is also

Speaker 2 is that and in book number two and it says one of the characters jackson he's kind of a bit of a love interest

Speaker 2 and he comes from a different fa kind of you know heritage family and it says isn't it interesting you know we have all these backstories and it doesn't matter who you are you know whether you're the duchess or the dustman it doesn't matter we all have a backstory, right, from

Speaker 2 our families, you know, that what we've inherited.

Speaker 2 And the truth is, is our conditioning of our environment, whether we're going to pull the trigger on it, or not, whether it's going to get triggered, right?

Speaker 2 And so, and, and, and it sort of really like shows that up.

Speaker 2 For example, she's acting on revenge, like she wants revenge for her mother's murder, and she sort of doesn't act in the best way, and then she's got this like icky feeling afterwards.

Speaker 2 Now, okay, so that's it in that adventure. Now I'm looking at you, and you were telling me a little bit about your story.
And I think you've been quite open about it.

Speaker 2 Now, I'm looking at you as a woman. We don't know each other that well, but I'm thinking, okay, here is a woman that she's had seven children.

Speaker 2 Okay, you told me that you don't have a mother, an active mother in your life and you didn't really have one, okay, yet, and you had a child at 17,

Speaker 2 yet you managed to turn your poop to fertilizer as in whatever was going on.

Speaker 2 And look at look at you now look at you now I love that metaphor yeah look at you now you are a slaying a businesswoman a brilliant mother and you look great thank you yeah and say

Speaker 2 you haven't you've actually you pivoted to what you're um how would you say the the conditions that could have triggered somebody else right into a different way a different path yet you've gone nu-uh i'm gonna make something great and that's amazing and we're all learning as we go Rosie Frost she

Speaker 2 she goes through those they're very it's very real what happens to her and she's angry and she's thinking I she acts badly at a moment and then suddenly goes do you know what this doesn't feel good that's relatable that's relatable so I try to make it a very modern story right although it's like heightened realism in certain ways but actually all the feelings and everything she goes through is real right but in order to create a character like that or maybe recognize that in me, would you say that you had to, you also face adversities and

Speaker 2 absolutely. We all have to in different shapes and forms.
Every single one of us that's listening, you, me, everyone, we have, we get presented with different challenges.

Speaker 2 And someone said to me, those challenges in our life,

Speaker 2 they are qualifiers, those obstacles,

Speaker 2 that, okay, what am I going to do with this? How bad do I, how, how, how bad am I, do I want this?

Speaker 2 or you know what am I going to do with this like am I going to let it define me or I'm I'm going to let it shape me in a positive way right so I can imagine that you probably experienced a lot of that too just

Speaker 1 going through everything and being as famous as you were your whole life like that had to have presented its own set of challenges I think it just it puts a microscope on all of us right it just just it just presents itself differently

Speaker 1 do you think that that

Speaker 1 with the rise of social media, could you imagine having been as famous as you were growing up? Or I guess not growing up.

Speaker 2 I mean, that is tricky, isn't it? Because everything is documented, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, at least, and not to say that it's not, it wasn't hard, right? But like thinking about, you know, well, maybe Britney Spears or Christine Aguilera, a lot of their early

Speaker 1 struggles with fame, I would say, struggles or challenges, rather, you know, and same for you and the Spice Girls and, you know, everybody, they, it's not not everything is on video maybe like a tabloid or something.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Do you think it is harder or do you think it's I don't know?

Speaker 2 Here's the truth. Like if you ask like like you're a great grandmother, right, and look at you know where she came from and she looks at the world, it just keeps on turning and moving and evolving.

Speaker 2 Right. That is a guarantee.
The world is going to change whether we like it or not. Right.
Right.

Speaker 2 And so, you know, even from where she started in 1901 or whenever it was,

Speaker 2 or 1940 or something,

Speaker 2 and looking at now, you know,

Speaker 2 the way the Industrial Revolution changed, you know, from not cars to having cars to having a computer, that was fast. And then we've, you know, we're just progressing and moving.

Speaker 2 I would say it has its blessings and curses. Just think about this now.

Speaker 2 So, you and I, we're having a nice conversation, we're processing something, and we are able to share that, you know, and make the world a little village or a little chat. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 If it wasn't for digitalization, this would not be happening. Right.
Right. So, that is a blessing.
Absolutely. That's a beautiful thing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, and I think it's just, we're all just learning and choosing how the world's going to shape us. And we'll suddenly go, do you you know what? That works, that doesn't.

Speaker 2 It's a bit like sugar and cigarettes.

Speaker 1 Do they not go together?

Speaker 2 Well, think about it. When they first came out, no one really, you know, they didn't come with a label.

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Speaker 1 Everyone that I've met from the UK is so much more polite than Americans. Oh, really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like calling someone darling, and then you sat right here next to me and were asking about me. That would never happen with an American.

Speaker 2 Really? No.

Speaker 2 Or maybe that's just, you know,

Speaker 2 is that confidence?

Speaker 1 Maybe. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Maybe. No, but I don't think anyone that I've ever interviewed has been like that.

Speaker 2 Like, really? Am I the first British person? Yes.

Speaker 1 No. I had another author on who's British,

Speaker 1 Alice Feeney. She writes suspense thriller novels.
I had her on pretty recently. I loved her.
She was, again, one of the sweetest women I've ever met. I just love everyone.

Speaker 1 I think I'm going to move to the UK.

Speaker 1 I think I'm going to move there.

Speaker 2 I'm very proud of the

Speaker 2 United Kingdom. But what I will say about America, I think I feel like we're cousins.
So we have this sort of connection.

Speaker 2 And obviously, you know, we all, you know, have history and we all can be idiots at different times. None of us have behaved perfectly, but we're all still connected.

Speaker 2 You know, there are good bits that we feel. I feel like Americans and Brits, we're cousins.
Okay. I can't believe that.
You know, I met that.

Speaker 2 And there's some amazing bits that we learn from each other and love each other for. Sure.
You know, so.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I just love it.

Speaker 1 I might be British. I think I'm British.

Speaker 2 I'm thinking you're a bit Scottish. I am.
Are you? Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like a bit Scottish.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like Scottish English.

Speaker 1 I did ancestry and 23andMe. I did both.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And which one's the best one to do?

Speaker 1 So 23andMe has the health aspect that you can do. So it'll give you like what your percentage of likelihood to be allergic to certain things or what type of body type you have.

Speaker 2 Did you think it was helpful? I do.

Speaker 1 because now that I so I just recently had a breast reduction surgery okay um gonna get back in the gym and it sort of gave me like my body composite composition my body type and so that gives me insight to how I should work out to be in the best shape, which is super helpful It just has like cool fun facts in there I'm terrified of having Alzheimer's so that gives me like my likelihood of that so I definitely think 23and me 23and me Yeah, and the other one is ancestry So that gives you more about that one's more like building your family tree and seeing who you're related to like I think I found out from there that I was like Benjamin Franklin.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so that's pretty kind of cool.

Speaker 1 It is, but um

Speaker 1 i um yeah so they're both cool for different reasons just do both honestly just do both it's cool and you can connect with relatives can you yes oh my goodness like i found cousins on there that i didn't even know i actually found out recently like i went down a whole rabbit hole about like my dad who's

Speaker 1 maybe I shouldn't be Lowry. My last name is Lowry, but maybe I shouldn't be Lowry.
So there's a lot of drama on there if you are wanting to open that can of horns.

Speaker 2 What it's saying to me is that one, we all want to connect. Yes.
We want to feel connected, but we also want to

Speaker 2 feel our own identity. Rosie Frost is all about that.
It's all about that. And there's a whole family tree in it.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And she's finding, she's sent to that island, Bloodstone Island, and her mother's died. She doesn't know who her dad is.
So that's, you know, that's quite a modern question. Yes.
Right.

Speaker 2 And she's, she's, she's wondering, actually, in book two, she's going, who's my dad? Well, that's my dad.

Speaker 1 I met my dad dad when I was 17. Okay, there you go.

Speaker 2 She's wondering because we want to think, oh, who are we? Who am I? Who am I connected to?

Speaker 2 Those are natural questions that we can all ask ourselves. But I'm learning ultimately, you have the truth inside of you.

Speaker 2 Of your own wisdom and your own answers. They're all in you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Don't you think? No, I agree. I think it's a little bit hard getting the answers, but I think we have them.

Speaker 2 You have them. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Is it because there's so much noise?

Speaker 2 think about it i would say so if you've got all you know lots of children and

Speaker 2 work and this and that and that to like get quiet and go okay what does my heart feel here yeah yeah sometimes it's hard to get there lots of therapy years of therapy you know

Speaker 1 well done you well done you thank you you have all these books i'm so excited for the third one that's really exciting we actually went out and got um the first book today we went to thank you yeah because i was like we can't do um I have an online book club, so we're going to give them away, but we only had book two, we didn't have book one.

Speaker 1 So it's like, we can't just give away book two, we have to give away the duo, the set. Okay, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So that's very good. I like this book club.

Speaker 1 Yeah, feel free to join us for book club anytime. Thank you.

Speaker 2 What's the name of your book club?

Speaker 1 Chapter seven, because I have seven children. Chapter seven.

Speaker 2 Do you know what my mother says, right? She says it, and she's Spanish, and she says to me, every time there's something might not go as you'd hope, she go,

Speaker 2 and this is forgive the Spanish action. She go, chapter 17, move on.
I'm like, okay.

Speaker 1 Are you bilingual?

Speaker 2 I can speak a get by if we were lost. Okay.
A little bit.

Speaker 1 That's cool.

Speaker 2 I didn't know you were Spanish. A little bit.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm a cocktail of many things.

Speaker 2 That's why I'm interested in doing

Speaker 2 the ancestry thing. You should do it.

Speaker 1 They used to have a show. I had Tamara on, and she did it.
She went on a show

Speaker 1 where they do all of that for you, which which I thought would have been really cool because you sometimes you get stuck when you like go down the on ancestry, there's like these like leafs that you add to the tree and it's like all the people and sometimes you can get stuck or maybe there's someone with the same name.

Speaker 2 In number two, okay, so there's a, there's that, it's called a futurology exhibition. Okay.

Speaker 2 And it like this very, very big investor of the school and the island, okay, he's a multi-billionaire, you know, trillionaire.

Speaker 2 They're doing a competition of who comes up with different ideas okay scientific ideas and it's not the main story but it's just one chapter of it and there's one girl called bina and she does exactly what you're talking about that you take it from one hair just from your genetics and can absolutely reveal the lot for you and some that's so cool we're all interested aren't we in who we are yeah i just i would love for the me to come from like a really cool history like what i don't don't know.

Speaker 1 Maybe like a Scottish king or an English king of some sort.

Speaker 1 But so far I haven't found that. But maybe one day.
It's fine.

Speaker 2 Maybe one day.

Speaker 1 Maybe one day. Would you ever write another memoir?

Speaker 2 Maybe. Part of me thinks, God, a lot has happened since that date that I wrote the first one.
So yeah.

Speaker 1 But maybe because as we grow and evolve as people, our perspective shifts and hindsight is always 2020.

Speaker 1 So maybe just like looking at it from a new lens yeah that's true that's true yeah that's a nice that's that's a that's the great way to say actually a new lens because i think when we go through something you know challenging we might be angry or resentful or not understand why xyz is happening but maybe 10 15 even 20 years down the line you're like wait I needed that for whatever reason, whatever that reason may be.

Speaker 1 Or maybe you're like, I still don't understand. And so sort of just looking back and reflecting on everything that you've done.
and maybe by then you'll have several more books under your belt.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I just put it, I all that you've just mentioned, resentment, anger, which is the natural thing that

Speaker 2 we feel. Yeah, it's what we do with it, right? And so, I just use it, I use it for creativity.
So, we can either go in, I call it the ricochet of revenge, right?

Speaker 2 For example, you did that, so I'm gonna do that, and then they're gonna do it back.

Speaker 2 And it goes, boom, boom, and then there's that feeling of that resentment you mentioned is that someone said it's like drinking poison and expecting that that other person to die so staying with it resentful who does it serve so how do you feel about karma then do you believe karma is real

Speaker 2 no

Speaker 2 I don't you know potentially I think I'm open to that but I think you know but allowing to letting go of that you know resentment towards someone right is of service

Speaker 2 to myself right you know because otherwise I'm in constriction and I can't I'm so like caught up in that, I'm blocking actually what's inside of me, which have other answers, other paths to lead.

Speaker 1 And the other person doesn't feel it, right?

Speaker 2 No, of course they don't. What I will say is, though, sometimes resentment is gas in your tank, but unfortunately, it's short-lived.
You know, that sort of, excuse me, look, that F you.

Speaker 2 F you, I'm going to show you I can do it. Right.
But actually, it's a battery power that's going to run out. Right.
So

Speaker 2 when I'm fueled with something greater and bigger, then

Speaker 2 I'm plugged into like the socket in the wall rather than the battery. Right.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, that makes like at first it might propel you, but then what happens when that, when eventually you let go, then what? And it's exhausting. No, it's so exhausted.
It's exhausting.

Speaker 1 Resentment, hate, anger, all of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's absolutely exhausting to keeping it up.

Speaker 1 It tortures us more than it tortures the other person.

Speaker 1 I would definitely agree with that.

Speaker 1 Did you do audiobooks for these?

Speaker 2 Yes, I did.

Speaker 1 You audio.

Speaker 1 Did the audio for them?

Speaker 2 yes I did okay because the number one did really the first book did really really well okay second one oh my goodness

Speaker 2 I created like new characters a couple of new characters so I found myself

Speaker 2 in one sitting right you read it in one sitting no no no it took me about oh my god three weeks to do right okay in one sitting so that was like three hours worth and I'm reading the couple of chapters I did about

Speaker 2 four different accents.

Speaker 2 I went from so forgive me, listeners of Audible.

Speaker 2 Oh my god, I do an Irish accent like that. So I'll be like, Kaylee, what do you think you're doing? And then I went from, there's a there's a character called Akiva, okay, right?

Speaker 2 She's just slay, yeah. And she's like, oh my god, Kay, what do you think you're doing? You're an adam, you're mad, kind of thing.

Speaker 2 Oh, she's kind of like, yeah, and then, and then there was, it was like my take on Texas, so forgive me, yeah. And then there, who else?

Speaker 2 There was a, there was a French Marie Curie, and she was like, Oh my god, you what are you doing?

Speaker 2 We will find the murderer.

Speaker 1 But see, we love that.

Speaker 1 I always ask for recommendations on a good audiobook that has the different accents, the different characters, like all of that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. So, for anyone that's listening, that is a part of Chapter 7 Book Club, definitely check out the audio version of Rosie Frost series.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that

Speaker 2 I always feel like because I

Speaker 2 buy books and I listen to Audible,

Speaker 2 I want to make sure that everyone feels like absolute like get they get their they get their full value. Yeah, like a full experience.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I think okay I'm gonna give it I'm you know all out there.

Speaker 1 So I love that.

Speaker 1 I think that the full experience whether you're reading it the book version or you know the physical copy Kindle Audible whatever you're yeah and you get a song actually with a book and the audible

Speaker 1 okay you just scan it I love that so before we do Rapid Fire, you guys can buy the Rosie Frost series at Barnes and Noble, Amazon, wherever you guys buy books. You can also find it on Audible.

Speaker 1 So, I highly suggest listening to the audio version. So, this or that, I guess, we could do for Rapid Fire.

Speaker 2 I think that's okay.

Speaker 1 Go for it. So, you appeared as a judge on different TV shows.
Which one was your favorite? The Rivals, the X Factor UK, or Australia's Got Talent?

Speaker 2 Actually, I'm going to go for something completely different.

Speaker 2 Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 There was a show, okay,

Speaker 2 that only had one season called America's

Speaker 2 All-American Girl. Okay.

Speaker 2 And it only did one season and didn't go, but it was actually quite a nice experience.

Speaker 1 Like you loved it.

Speaker 2 Sometimes the process was good. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's good to know.
Can people still watch it? No.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 1 Like they're not even replaying season one?

Speaker 2 I don't think so. No,

Speaker 2 it didn't make it.

Speaker 1 Okay, so you've also acted. You've done Spice World, Crank High Voltage, and Gran Turismo.
Which one was your favorite?

Speaker 2 Gran Turismo was amazing because I was in a scene with Jamin Husson, which who was in Gladiator, and I had to bring my A game. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yes. That was like an experience.
And afterwards, he went, oh,

Speaker 2 you really can act. Like, he was like, I was like, okay.
And I studied acting. But I'll tell you what else that really was fulfilling was I had a

Speaker 2 scene scene in Sex in the City. Oh, yes, Phoebe Kittenworth.
And you loved it?

Speaker 2 I remember being in the meat packing

Speaker 2 district and I had a scene with Samantha Jones. And I remember looking because I've been studying acting and I was like, oh my god, I feel, I just felt so grateful.

Speaker 2 I looked up at the sky and I was saying, I am loving my life right now. I love that though.

Speaker 1 Do you prefer the

Speaker 1 like unscripted versus scripted or do you prefer acting?

Speaker 1 What do you mean? Like for when you were judging and doing, I guess they were like more like a reality, real life.

Speaker 2 If I had to call it, for me,

Speaker 2 I prefer being the painter than the paint. I prefer creating

Speaker 2 than being

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 you know, they all have their mediums, they're all useful, it's all okay.

Speaker 1 For sure, yeah.

Speaker 2 Favourite, they do, they do, you know, whether it's a really serious drama, right?

Speaker 2 You know, Oscar Oscar winning that is important as is you know a piece of reality TV that's just light and fun and we process they all are needed it's like a salad would you ever do judging again for like American Idol or the

Speaker 2 I think that market is crowded okay fair that's fair yeah

Speaker 1 favorite song to perform ever there's a song

Speaker 2 that I once saw it was in a Tarantino movie okay right quintin tarantino quintin tarantino movie and It's Django Unchained. Okay,

Speaker 2 and Jamie Foxx He is on a horse and he's like riding across did you say Django? Django Unchained.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know I've seen that. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Do you remember when Jamie Foxx is on the horse? Yes.

Speaker 2 And in the backdrop is

Speaker 2 a Jim Crochy song called I've Got a Name, right? Okay. Well, I performed that song with

Speaker 2 one of the Rolling Stones in his lounge.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that, for me, I was like, oh my God, this is that's quite amazing. This is amazing.

Speaker 1 Can you tell us one thing that people don't know about you?

Speaker 2 Well, that's riveting.

Speaker 2 That's interesting. Okay.
I don't know. I really feel confident at reverse parking.

Speaker 2 It's really like random, isn't it? And I can speak German. You can? Well, not bad.
I can speak, get by. I'm not fluent.

Speaker 2 I can speak, get by German. I love German.

Speaker 1 So German, Spanish, English?

Speaker 2 A little bit, yeah.

Speaker 1 I love that. So basically, trilingual.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't say I'm there, but enough.

Speaker 2 Enough to go.

Speaker 2 I love German. I love that.

Speaker 1 Okay, what's a British slang term for like, see you next time?

Speaker 1 Anything that we don't say in America?

Speaker 2 Cheerio. Cheerio.
Cheerio. That's sort of like quintessential.
That's from Mary Poppins.

Speaker 2 Cheerio. That was how the Imagine.
What's his name? Yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 1 Well, on that note, thank you so much for joining us on Barely Famous Podcast.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having me. Wad on you.
Thank you. William.

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