From Reality TV to Real Life: Katie Thurston’s Journey

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welcome to the shit show things are going to get weird

it's your fae villain kale

and you're listening to barely famous

All right, y'all, if you are a Bachelor Nation fan, you do not need an introduction for my next guest.

In case you are not a Bachelor fan, Katie Thurston is here on Barely Famous podcast.

So she's made a lasting impression by showing herself as herself, being honest, open, sex positive, and bringing a vibrator to night one on The Bachelor.

Since then, she's continued to connect with people through humor and honesty and her ability to say things that most of us are thinking.

She's a girl's girl, a stand-up comic, and recently she's been navigating a cancer diagnosis with the same openness and strength that has always set her apart from everybody else.

I'm really looking forward to this conversation with Katie.

Katie, thank you so much for coming on Fairly Famous Podcast.

Thanks for having me.

Of course, we were just joking about

recording over Zoom.

I'm not a huge fan of recording over Zoom.

I think the chemistry is different and I'm able to just have a better conversation in person.

Yeah, no, I agree totally.

Okay, that's that's great.

Where are you from?

Well, I'm from Washington, but I just recently moved from LA to New York.

So I'm fresh here in New York City.

Do you like it?

It's been an adjustment.

Obviously, I came here under some crazy circumstances, but New York was always the plan with my now husband.

So just trying to like, you know, make friends as an adult and figure out like my new hair salon, my new neighborhood and restaurants.

Yeah, which it's always harder as adults, I feel like.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know.

When I moved, I moved to Delaware as an adult and I was just like, where do I even go?

Like, what do I do?

I don't, I didn't know anything.

And truly, there's this app and I won't name it out, but that you can like sign up and then it assigns you to meet with four other strangers for a restaurant, a restaurant dinner, like a dinner at a restaurant.

Sorry, I will mention my medicine gives me a little bit of a brain fog.

So if you hear me like stutter or whatever, that's what that is.

Okay.

But

yeah, so it's a cool way that you can like meet strangers.

I haven't signed up for it yet,

but I was like, that's kind of where I'm at where I'm like, I'm ready to go on a blind date with strangers and make friends.

With like the real world from MTV, you remember when they put seven strangers in a house and they all live together?

Sort of like that?

That's kind of cool.

Like modern day.

Yes.

So you're very known for being like sex positive, talking about all of that kind of thing.

And I absolutely love it.

And I think because maybe you brought the vibrator on the bachelor,

that people sort of connect your sex positivity with the bachelor.

Would you agree?

Or do you think that you were always like that before?

If you've known me before, well, and also, I think it just depends where you're from.

I'm from Washington.

It's a very progressive state.

So, like, a lot of people would VM be like, you're not sex positive.

You're just like a woman in 2020 at the time.

And it was like very normal for a lot of us, you know.

Whereas like certain areas, it's like, oh my God, a vibrator, you know?

And so, yeah, I'm sex positive, but so are so many other women.

And so it was just kind of a cool way to start conversations about just like self-love, self-care.

Yeah.

And the amount of women who messaged me being like, I spoke my first vibrator because of you.

I'm like,

you're welcome.

You're welcome.

I'm cracking up.

I remember I was partnered with one of the vibrating companies and

my like little cousins, they were like teenagers and their mom messaged me and was like, Kale, can you not do that?

And I was like, but we need to have these conversations.

Like you don't have to have them with your kids right now, but maybe mute my post then if it's not for you.

Like, right.

I don't know.

I just just feel like we should continue to have those conversations Do you still talk about being sex positive and just being like self-love self-care self-care?

Yeah, I mean, it's not like my like focus or identity.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

You know, but I'll partner with a vibrator brand and talk about it, no problem.

Whereas I think some people do shy away from it.

And then I'll get DMs a lot of times from people.

And I'm happy to totally dissect, you know,

not how to use a vibrator, but like why it's okay or why it's okay to incorporate with your partner.

Like it's not a bad thing and it's not a sin.

Yeah.

So yeah, I don't see myself ever shying away from that.

When you were growing up in Washington, did you have conversations surrounding that?

Or did you sort of get that, get to that point as a young adult or an adult?

I think the part where it started to stand out for me was actually during COVID.

I went on TikTok pre-reality TV.

Okay.

And so we're all like locked inside and bore at home.

And I was kind of like taught, like doing like little skits almost or having these like conversations with people.

And I was like, oh, I'm so horny.

I could fuck a a ghost right now you know like not the ghost smut

look it was like a crazy time right and I was single and I was just like what am I what's happening in the world you know and and so a lot of people like enjoyed those conversations you know and um

yeah I never really thought it would go anywhere and then when I had the opportunity to be on the bachelor and you know I'm talking to the producer and I'm like you know what do we feed you this

it became like a whole thing and then my tagline for the bachelor was like see what the buzz is all about

Okay, we might be a little bit of an overkill now, you know?

So, wait, you said you were talking to the producers at that time.

How did you get on The Bachelor, if you're willing to talk about it?

Of course, yeah, yeah.

I applied.

Like, I

was 29 at the time, and I remember being like, Oh, I'm about to be like too old for reality TV.

Really?

That's what you thought?

Well, for The Bachelor, they tend to at least at the time, it felt like a younger crowd.

29 felt old to be on The Bachelor, you know, and so I kind of did it like not actually like it was kind of like a Hail Mary, like whatever happens, happens.

And then I remember getting the call at Miss 222, and I'm a big like numbers person.

I was like, oh, and it was like an LA number, and I'm in Washington at the time.

And anyway, um, just like one interview after the other, after the other, I'm like, okay, I don't know, like, are they gonna keep calling?

And then, like, sure enough, they're like, all right, like, you're in.

So there was like two weeks later, I think.

And then I was in a COVID bubble season, but but yeah any regrets um i don't think so because everything you know everything has like an impact and it leads you to like where you are and i despite all things i'm very happy with like all the things i've experienced right now would i go back and redo reality tv a little different possibly um but you just never know the grass is always sometimes greener on the other side and you think you know what if and it's like it still could have been the same outcome or who knows would you go on another reality show if they asked for you i want to go on traders so bad

so much same okay whoever's listening can you put us both on traders same season no just

yes i so definitely obviously i'm retired now from um dating reality shows yeah yeah yeah but competition shows like bring it on i'm a new fan of traders i'm obsessed i watch it from like a analytical eye of like if i was on it what would i do yeah or what's uh the mass singer competition i can please don't put me on anything singing or dancing that's not oh dancing is not for me but just for the experience i would try to do dancing with the stars But I am not a dancer by any stretch of the imagination with dancing with the stars I almost wish they brought on more non-dancing type of people Yeah, but a lot of times the people who are on it are like professionally trained in their past or we're a cheerleader or like whatever and I'm like that's not fun you want to see like an underdog come up and do yeah although to be fair Joey who's the past bachelor he just won um and he didn't have any background in dancing and did you maintain any relationships with people from the bachelor or the bachelorette yeah I mean, it's interesting because off the show, right away, everyone has one thing in common, and that's the trauma bond of reality TV, you know?

But then like once the dust settles and it's kind of like old news, there's new seasons, whatever, you kind of realize, like, who do you have stuff in common with?

You know, who do you vibe with?

Yeah.

So overall, yeah, there's people who I'm like closer with.

And then there's some people I've like, I haven't talked to you in years.

But overall, I'd say, yeah.

But I think that's, that's also true for just real life people, right?

Like seasons of life that you go through and maybe you have a job here at one point, and you're good friends with certain people, and then you go get another job.

You might never talk to those people again, but that doesn't mean that you guys aren't friends, just the season of life.

Totally.

I was so close with like people I worked with at a bank, and then I went on reality TV, and it just brings you into a whole new lifestyle and world.

And then I'm like, I don't, we don't have as much in common anymore.

Right?

No, completely.

And on your socials, you talk about, or you have talked about

consent.

Do you still talk, are you still talking about consent like you are about sex positivity?

It's definitely a topic I want to continue to preach forever.

Right now, the chapter of my life is very different,

unfortunately.

But it is a topic I was very passionate about and constantly wanting to educate women on and men too, I will say that.

But I have just mostly a women audience.

So yeah, I think it's something that needs to be taught in

school, like as young as like middle school.

I was thinking like kindergarten.

I mean, oh, I mean, yeah, I guess guess I have you're a mom, so you have a different mindset, but absolutely.

Absolutely.

Like you met my friend Emily.

She's in the other room.

She has four kids and I have seven kids and our kids are really good friends.

And so her daughter and my son are close.

And you know, sometimes my son will hug her daughter and I'm like, you need to ask her before you can touch her.

Yeah.

Because I feel like it starts there.

If you don't understand the word no for something as simple as a hug, I can't, you're never going to get what consent is as an adult.

Totally.

And for more serious things.

And so for me, I mean, he's going to kindergarten and I want him to say, oh, can I touch your hand?

Can I hug you?

Because if they say no, it's no.

Oh, that's so smart.

I didn't think of that just from a different mindset of

having children, but it's true.

And just understanding the dynamic of like adult to child and teaching that child, like how to say no or how to be comfortable talking to you if something, you know, unfortunately was to happen.

I have a two-year-old too.

And I'll be like, can I have a kiss?

And if he says no, I don't keep trying.

Yeah.

I love that.

It's just something that I feel like it becomes second nature when you do it younger.

And I do understand what you're saying, like the heavier conversations or like the in-depth conversations in middle school, but you can start even sooner.

No,

you're so right.

Yeah.

I wish there was more conversations about it.

I think you're the only person that I know that even talks about it publicly.

So I think that's really cool.

And I know that it's sort of on the back burner right now.

And that's okay.

But.

Yeah, I think it's important to talk about it.

I have six boys.

So I'm like, we have to talk about this.

Absolutely.

We have to talk about it.

And like my kids they don't i don't think they understand right now like when i'm saying oh like can i do this or you know you have to ask you know your friend to touch them or whatever they don't really understand it now like why it is that way but they will go get it

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Did you ever feel villainized at any point from, I don't know, going on The Bachelor until now, like for being sex positive?

Did you get any backlash for that?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Really?

Well, The Bachelor tends to have a more traditional audience.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it was very polarizing.

I think you had some people who are like, hell yeah, you know, finally, whatever, you know, and we could be friends.

And then you have people who are like, you're going to hell.

You're disgusting.

You're a slut, you know, I'm like, you're watching The Bachelor, The Bachelorette.

You know, like the whole, literally, like, the finale, you have someone, if you want, to go to the fantasy suites with like three different people.

Like, you can't support this show, but then, like, have like a double standard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's.

Catch 22, I guess.

Yeah.

Um, if you could describe the bachelor in two three words, what would they be?

Oh, God.

From what perspective?

I guess maybe from your experience as a contestant.

Yeah.

Unique,

chaotic,

and

stale.

I'm watching Love Island now.

I have not seen that, but the girls keep talking about it.

And it's, is it live?

Is that right?

Kind of, like, it's, it's being filmed and like produced like within like, I don't know, like a 24-hour period or something.

So it's not totally live, but it's like...

Essentially, it's live.

Yeah, they put out an episode like a day or two later, whereas like The Bachelor, I think it's like two or three months later.

Yeah, I think Teen Mom for me, I filmed it October to, I filmed it in two months.

Mine actually, 16 and Pregnant was four months later.

Okay.

But then Teen Mom, some seasons of Teen Mom wouldn't air for six months to a year after.

Yeah.

So it's like crazy difference, but Love Island being 24 to 48 hours is crazy.

I've never seen it.

I don't know what anything this is my first time watching it is it what is it on netflix uh peacock peacock yeah oh my gosh yeah i've never i have no idea what that is so yeah

it's great and then people like america gets to like vote so then america kind of becomes a producer what is the premise of this show is it like the bachelor and the bachelorette it's i would say it's a little sexier okay i think it's to find love ultimately okay as anyone who watches the reality tv doing that is hard but i've heard there's like successful uh couples who come out of it you know but it's a dating show it's it's essentially a dating show.

Okay.

So that brings me to my own.

Do you think that people are going on these shows to actually find love or do you think that they are trying to build a social following?

I think it's both.

I think they're like worst case scenario, I don't find love, but I got screen time, I got followers, I got brand deals, you know, best case scenario, I'm in love and I have a million followers, you know, like you definitely go on it knowing that social media is a big part of it now.

Okay.

If you find someone who wants to go on the show and doesn't have a a social media, like I would love to watch that, you know, but I think it's so hard to find, you know, the right person for that.

Well, I think it's a double-edged sword as well as what we were just talking about because the producers, in my opinion, I don't know this for sure, this is just my opinion that specifically for like dating shows or competition shows, the producers want people that have a following because at some point they want to be able to promote it.

And the more following that each contestant has, they'll be able to promote it to more people.

That is the industry, whether it's comedy, music, reality TV now.

A lot of opportunities are given based on your following now.

Even for me, I don't know if you know this, but I dabbled in comedy for a bit.

Yes, I was going to bring it up at that point.

And so I had a big following.

And when people would ask me to come like open on their show or be on their show, if they had never seen me perform, I typically would tell them no because I'm like, oh, you're just asking me because I have a following, not because you actually think I'm funny or have even seen me perform before.

Ah, was that tricky for you?

Did you feel like weird about that?

I just wanted to do it the right way.

Certainly, yes, people can use their audience and use it to their advantage.

And I think that's great.

I think comedy is not the place to be taking shortcuts.

Like you really got to take your time and work your way up.

And so I was pretty comfortable with declining people where I felt like, oh, you're using me for my audience and ticket sales, not because you're giving me a chance.

But even that is like a catch-22, because if you don't, if you're a comic that is trying to build from the ground up, they sort of i'm not speaking for all of them but i know sometimes it's a little bit harder so they can't really turn gigs down

so then it's like comedy is so hard because the people that do put in all the work from the bottom up that

they don't they didn't necessarily start with a following where someone with a following gets into comedy and people love them because they already had that following which is it sucks yeah there's like no happy medium yeah but i will say i think it it does kind of end up coming full circle like the people who put in the work are continuing to go on tour and sell tickets and and perform those people who are just like skipping the line and not putting in the work you might be able to do a show one time but people are going to be able to see you on stage and be like that person's not experienced or like this isn't funny they can't edit this clip like this is live performing and it's not it's not hitting you know so you might do a show in seattle but then you might never come back because you're like did you do because i know that there's like um comedy shows that are it's like the same bit when they go on tour and it's like the same material.

And that's like what that tour is.

Yeah.

Did you ever do that?

Or was it stand up and it was different every time?

Because I don't think I could never in my first of all, I have a hard enough time saying one joke in a day.

So I couldn't imagine like standing up on stage and telling jokes.

Yeah.

Like that seems like my worst nightmare.

There's moments that you're like.

it's bombing and you're like, get me off the stage.

But because I recognized my experience or lack thereof, I was, I would would go on the road, but it was like short term.

And I would bring other experienced comics with me.

So, in the reversal of like people trying to use me for my audience, I was trying to share my audience.

And so, I would bring experienced comics with me.

I would maybe do a 15 to 20 minute set.

And then I would have someone who's more experienced do like 40 minutes.

And then I would share like the ticket sales with them.

Yeah.

And now they're being exposed to like a new audience and stuff.

So that was kind of like my way of like giving, I guess, back.

Yeah.

And then when you stopped stopped doing con comedy was it when you got your diagnosis or before that it was before that and it was when i met my husband who's also a comic and so he's a very experienced comic like 15 years in he's on a world tour right now oh that's awesome and so once i started watching him perform i was like oh, I'll just be like a green room girly.

You know, like I'll be there for support.

I see, and I obviously knew what went into it.

And I did it for about two years.

I saw what went into it and what was required.

And there's so much

time you have to commit to it.

And you have to love it.

I'm talking 10, 15 years to really like make it work.

And I was just at a point in my life where I was like, this is fun.

I enjoy it.

But fully committing, I just don't think that's in the cards for me.

Fair.

Yeah.

So how do you support him now on his tour?

Oh, just ask him.

I'm like his on-site manager if I'm there.

I'm like, did you guys check his rider?

What's the green room looking like?

Where's his water?

I'm on the side, ready to like bring him whatever he needs.

Oh, I'm just supporting him.

Like a showrunner.

Yeah, literally, literally.

For podcasting tour, we had like a showrunner and all that too.

So similar, but no jokes.

And obviously before you met your husband, you were announced as the bachelorette.

Yes.

What went through your head when you found out that you were going to be the bachelorette?

I was actually so shocked because I don't know if you are familiar with the show and the structure, but typically they'll ask one of the girls from like the final four.

Okay.

When you're talking like, I don't like the word place but like in terms of elimination you know i was 11th place like so like middle of the season got the boot and i was like i bet the best thing that happens is they asked me to like bachelor in paradise but never thought the bachelorette um and then especially because we had so many like great great women yeah and then when they like gave me the offer i was shocked i was shocked but of course like you can't turn that down no you know you can't so so you did it i did it yeah I told, I was like, hey, to my boss, I was like, I don't think I'm coming back after this.

Like, there's just so much that happens.

And like, I was working at a bank.

I'd been in like finance for like 10 years.

And I was like, I'm pretty sure regardless, like, I need to take like.

a couple years off.

Oh, wow.

From like just conventional work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's hard when you're on reality TV.

It's really hard to go back to like a traditional

job.

And I didn't know.

Like if influencing didn't work out, then I, my resume is great for finance.

And if it does, which

it has worked out for me still yeah i'll just keep riding that high of of you know influencer content creator yeah because it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing i feel like we're never gonna

have this ability again like when we're in our 50s or like it's not gonna be the same so i feel like capitalize while you can

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Rich Girl Summer follows the story of Valerie, a down-on-her-luck event planner posing as a socialite's long-lost daughter while piecing together the secrets surrounding a mysterious family and falling deeper and deeper in love with the impossibly hard-to-read and infuriatingly handsome family assistant, Nico.

Caught between pretending to belong and unexpectedly finding where she truly fits in, Valerie learns her summer is about to get far more complicated than she ever planned.

She's in over her head and head over heels.

Listen to Rich Girl Summer now on Audible.

Go to audible.com/slash rich girlsummer.

so how soon after the bachelorette did you meet your husband oh my now husband yeah i was thinking fiancé from the show oh yeah no sorry i skipped right over that i know that

you should um

you were like engaged to him for a couple months yeah short time

you were engaged to someone from the bachelorette yes and how long did that last i think after we were together like Two or three months maybe okay.

Was it real?

When you're in a bubble, you convince yourself it's real.

You know, I'm one girl dating all these guys.

Every day, all you're talking about is like marriage, babies, life, love, all that, you know.

And did you want that stuff?

Yeah, like, I didn't know about like what my future was going to look like, but I was definitely at a point in my life where I was like, I want to find the one.

Yeah.

You know, and,

you know, I'm not, I don't want to like shit on Blake.

He's a great guy, the guy that I ended up choosing at the end.

But he was in Canada.

I was in the States.

It was COVID.

And it's really hard.

I think I spent 24 hours with him total over the period of i think six to eight weeks of filming oh wow so i mean

you can tell yourself it's real all you want but then when you like kind of check out and you're like back in reality real reality you're kind of like

it was a coin flip if that was actually going to work out or not okay yeah but so he's a great guy he's a great guy called off the engagement yep yep and how soon after that did you meet your now husband oh gosh it would have been a couple years like okay so i had to go through it with some bad dates oh no yeah so you did date after the bachelorette and like went on dates in your real life yeah yeah i dated actually funny enough i ended up dating a guy also from my season oh

because again like fresh off the show everyone has something in common you know and um so dated him for a little bit publicly and then That was a nightmare because when you are a bachelorette who's engaged and you call off the engagement, then to date another guy from your season, it's very messy.

And so I think that was the last relationship that I went public with.

And then I was like, okay, whoever I am with next, like I'm not hard launching until like our wedding date is what I would joke because I was like, it's so embarrassing to like post someone.

And then like three months later, you're like,

we're not together anymore.

I get it.

I get it.

Yeah.

So yeah, I did a lot of dating and then eventually met my husband.

Like I said, like it was years later because we were both in comedy.

And

I was going to say, is that how y'all met?

Yeah.

I mean, it was in the DMs.

I started following him because I wanted my, my Instagram feed to be like comics, you know I'm done with reality TV.

I just want to I want to be a comedian and I just followed all these different comics and he was a New York comic and I was like never followed him romantically.

Yeah, but he was very charming very sweet very like golden retriever energy.

Yes.

Yeah.

I love that.

Which is like my type.

And then we exchanged DMs here and there and then

we finally met and then it was like we met for the first time.

Like we talked in April, met in May and then got engaged in August.

In the same year in the same year and then married like literally it was the one-year anniversary of our

Actually

let me rephrase that it was the one year anniversary of me texting a girlfriend being like my future husband But like in a joking way

You know, you know I hadn't even at that time I hadn't even met him yet.

I just was I was like a like a fan

You know, I was just like liked his comedy and I was like oh, it's my future husband and then I was like oh shit I manifested so hard on accident So I mean it worked out.

We We were just talking, do you know who Trisha Paytas is?

Yeah.

We were just talking about how she manifests everything and everything she manifests literally happens.

She's a goddess for that.

Truly.

Like, yes.

And I'm like, good for her.

I love that.

So you manifested your husband so hard.

I know.

Who else do you like as a comic, like a comedian?

Ali Wong is probably my top.

Taylor Tomlinson.

Like, I got to show the ladies.

But who, what is your husband's name?

Jeff Arkiri.

Okay.

You might recognize him.

No, I probably would.

You guys just laugh all day?

Yes.

But like,

what is it?

Do you take anything seriously?

Well, I mean, yeah, when we have serious conversations, it's like rare.

Not because we can't have them, but you know, if it's serious, it's because it needs to be.

Yeah.

Otherwise, I'd say 90% of the time we are just messing around and making jokes.

So how far into your relationship with your now husband did you learn that you had cancer?

We were coming up, it was like within, I don't know, 10 months maybe of being together.

Sure.

We were already engaged at that point, but yeah.

Okay, so because I did read, I think

I read it, or it was on your Instagram or something that

you guys eloped.

Yes.

But so it was, you didn't get engaged because of your diagnosis.

No, no, we got engaged August of last year.

And then our hope was to do wedding planning this summer.

And then in February February of this year was when I found out I have breast cancer.

So we kind of were like, well, obviously a wedding's not happening this year.

Sure.

But he was like, I want to show you, you know, how much I love you and support you.

And, you know, I'll get married to you tomorrow.

And I was like, I'm taking you up on that.

And so, yeah, we did the process of, you know, going to the courthouse.

It's actually, you cannot get married tomorrow.

You have to, there's a little bit of planning in it.

I didn't know.

But yeah, so then we did, we flew our parents into town to just literally eloped in our living room and then went to dinner.

And it's official.

I love that story so much.

I mean, obviously not the diet.

But you, you're my age.

So you're 91.

Yep.

I'm 92.

So we're,

and I recently went to go get a full body scan in depth from head to toe.

Yeah.

And in the paperwork,

or when we were going over like all the results and stuff, they went through like, you know, obviously breast.

And they said this is not, you know, in lieu of a mammogram.

Like, you should still follow up.

But that being said, if you go anywhere in Delaware where I live, they're not giving anyone a mammogram at 33, 32, 34.

Like, they're not.

So, how did this all?

I mean, I know that people who follow you will already know because you've talked about it on socials.

But

for anyone who's listening that doesn't know your story, could you sort of walk us through like how you found out?

Totally.

Yeah.

And this is, I think, why I preach it so much because I wish somebody our age was talking about it.

Yeah.

Because the first thing I'll say is: breast cancer in your 30s is not rare.

It's very common, unfortunately, and has been a thing, a trend in the last 10 years.

And that was something I didn't know.

It's in my inner circles, even the people I follow, I didn't know that was a thing.

In your 30s, it's common.

So, why are we not changing?

I have chills.

Why are we not changing the protocols for mammograms and women's health?

I think there's stuff in the works because of it.

There's, they're working on a breast cancer vaccine.

They're working on new ways to be proactive in women's breast health that aren't just normal for us now.

Like I do see in the next, I would say two years, there'll be changes that help women discover their cancer earlier because that's the thing is a lot of these women are waiting till 40 to get their mammogram and find out they have breast cancer, but really they probably had it in their 30s and it's just, it's growing and they didn't regard a mammogram and then it shows up.

So do you have an idea of how long you had the cancer before you started recognizing symptoms or signs?

Yes.

And it's crazy because you mentioned a full body scan.

I don't know if it's the same company, but I also got a full body scan last summer.

When I got this scan, I had no physical symptoms of breast cancer, but I did have something on the results that were kind of like moderate finding, like not red, but like the yellow, whatever color, brown, yellow, that's kind of like, hmm.

And so there's a lot of terminology that I was not familiar with at the time, especially not having breast cancer,

you know, like malignancy.

I don't know what that word means, you know, benign, what is that, you know?

And so, with that full body scan, they call you and they go over the results.

Yeah, and I, I, to this day will remember the tone of the woman, the way she sounded.

Nothing insinuated that I should get my breast further checked out.

Um, I had had a benign cyst in my 20s, and so I have a lumpectomy scar.

And so, she was like, it could be just old scar tissue.

And so, of course, I'm like, well, yeah, it's definitely not breast cancer, you know?

So, I just never did anything.

Oh, wow.

So that was last summer.

And then maybe last spring, because then in the summer, a little lump started to appear.

The lump would kind of come and go.

It would kind of hurt, kind of not.

And then I got to a point where I was like, okay, I need to like go back and reread my scan.

And position-wise of where the scan happened, what they saw, and what I have, I was like, oh.

that actually kind of matches.

Like, okay, maybe it's another cyst coming that I'm going to have to get removed.

Again, never thinking cancer.

And so, you know, fast forward to August, I'm engaged.

Fast forward to the winter time.

It's the holidays.

We're having an engagement party.

And so I'm like, all right, you know what?

January New Year, I got to like, I got to get this checked out.

Again, there was no urgency in my mind.

I thought it was going to be another benign cyst, whatever.

So it was a physical lump that I could feel.

It was painful.

And if you Google, like, is breast cancer painful?

At the time, at least Google was like, no, it's typically it's not painful.

So I'm like, okay, it's PMS.

It's working out, whatever.

So I go to the doctor.

They they feel it, they refer me to the, you know, the specialist who I don't get to see for another couple of weeks.

I'm like, oh, this is part of the process.

Well, then I get the breast ultrasound.

And that was like the first time where I was like, oh, something's going on because the tech was not saying anything to me.

I could hear the machine.

She kept taking pictures.

When I had a breast ultrasound in my early 20s, they were very quick to be like, oh, it's nothing.

They could tell.

And in this appointment, she just wasn't saying a lot.

And so I remember laying laying there i'll get emotional and like um crying i just that that guy you're just like oh

and so then um they're like are you available to get a mammogram and i'd never even had a mammogram and i was like okay

and so i like hiding him in the waiting room for the next part and again the waiting room was like all like older people i'm like what am i doing here So I get a mammogram that same day.

And then they're like, can you get a biopsy?

And so now

the same day.

So just back to back to back.

And I was like, yes, yes.

And they were like, okay, okay, let's see if we can get you in.

Were you by yourself?

I was by myself.

I didn't, I didn't, I was no, you didn't know.

You were just if I knew it was going to be a breast cancer situation, you would have had your husband there.

Bring someone there.

I was just like, oh, this is, I remember literally like taking a freaking selfie, being like, check your boobs, you know, like just for funsies.

So whatever.

There's even a TikTok that still exists where I'm like,

so there's a, there's something in my boobs, but I'm not worried.

You know, booby checks aren't scary.

Like just

oblivious to what my future was about to be.

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And so you get the mammogram.

Did you do the biopsy?

Did you end up doing the biopsy in the same day?

No, they couldn't get me in.

So I had to wait like, I think a week or two.

So in the meantime, I put on, I don't tell anybody like what's going on, like unless you're in my immediate family.

I put a post and I'm like, hey, when you guys get a mammogram, like how many of you guys made it to the biopsy part?

Because I'm like, is that a normal step?

And I remember the amount of people who made it to the biopsy step of your breast exam is like pretty small.

It's like, shit, like that's not good.

And then with your mammogram, there's a BIRAD score, which mine, I think was like a four.

And so I like looked up what that meant.

It was like, basically, it meant like 95% chance it's breast cancer.

So were you looking those things up before you even talked to your doctor about the results?

I got the results before I could talk to somebody.

I didn't know what this meant.

It was just like a whole thing.

And so, um, anyway, I remember being in Hawaii, it was February.

And the plan was I was going to join Jeff on his world tour.

We were supposed to leave from Hawaii to Australia, to Japan, to New Zealand, all these places.

And it was February 13th.

And I get the call and they're like, it's breast cancer, like officially.

Yeah.

Were you at least with someone when they?

I was with Jeff and then his whole family.

It was supposed to be this like family trip and it would just really put like a damper because we we had a feeling, but you can never know if it's cancer until you do a biopsy, like ultimately, no matter what shows up on a scan.

And so, I was kind of holding on to that.

I was like, oh, despite what my mammogram says, like, they're going to test it and it's not going to be cancer.

Right.

Because nobody, nobody, how old are you?

34.

34.

Yeah.

No 34-year-old is thinking that they're going to have breast cancer.

And it doesn't run in my family.

You know, I've had the BRCA genetic testing, don't have that, you know, so I'm like, I don't have breast cancer.

Like, that's crazy.

So you're with the family, you're with your husband, you find out yeah what what happens then did you decide to go home did you go on tour did you what was the next step there were so many just big decisions that had to be made because it was like okay well i i can't delay treatment you know i because that was a contemplation do i it's six weeks and then we come back should i just enjoy six weeks you know um I'm supposed to be moving to New York.

Should I be transferring my care now or when I come back?

Or do I transfer care back to Washington where I'm from and where my family is, you know?

So what ended up happening is Jeff ended up postponing that chunk of his tour

on super short notice because it was like within a week.

He couldn't really say why yet.

I ended up transferring my care from LA to New York because we were like, all right, we're just going to go from Hawaii to New York and get that figured out.

And

yeah, it was

a lot because it meant we were moving in together for our first time to New York, transferring my insurance situation and my now cancer diagnosis from LA to New York.

And it was great that he postponed it.

I didn't know, but I will say the beginning of a cancer diagnosis for anybody is the hardest because there's so many tests.

There's so much you're learning.

There's so many unknowns.

And then when, and that's like, it's, it's probably two months of my life.

And then it finally, like, it feels like the dust settled a little bit.

And now I'm just like,

I mean, there's still a lot of like unknowns and I'm in treatment and whatnot.

But yeah, the beginning was the hardest.

And he was there for me for that.

So at what point during all of this did you take him up on his offer to get married

um i think i mean

i don't remember what day we decided but we were just talking about how you know what happens in like the medical world if we're not married and something you know happens like he's a fiancé will they let him in there was one time where she even was like one of the nurses like oh he needs to stay back and then i use the word fiancé and then she let him in and so it was just like this thing of like it's very powerful to be like a married couple during this, you know.

So, yeah, we moved, we moved there in like March 1st, and then we got of this year, of this year, and then we got married March 22nd.

So, I think I took it up pretty quickly.

Like, once we signed the lease, that the next thing is like, let's sign some court documents.

I love that, though.

I mean, you know, he was, he's a rider to buy.

Yeah.

Um, and did you do the egg retrieval process during all of this?

Yeah.

So, initially, we thought I was going to have to do chemotherapy, and chemo will will impact your ovaries, your eggs, your fertility.

And so I luckily had this like 10-day window where they're like, if you want to do IVF, you got to do it now.

And so you had to decide that fast

before you started treatment.

Yep.

Like you could, technically, you can delay as much as you want.

But knowing it would impact the medicine or the treatment would impact your eggs.

Yeah, you can't like you have to, if you're going to do IVF, do it before treatment.

And then if you can get pregnant afterwards, sometimes you have to wait like two to three years.

Given my age, I didn't know.

Well, at the time, I was like, can I wait that long?

Well, now I'm stage four, which means I have to do it via surrogacy.

So

when you choose to have kids, it will have to be a surrogate because of the treatment.

You won't be able to carry.

And so I just don't know.

These are such valid questions.

So the one thing with breast cancer I learned that I don't think people realize unless you're in it is there's so many like subcategories of what types of breast cancer.

It's not just breast cancer.

It's like triple positive, triple negative, all these different things.

My type of breast cancer is

feeds off hormones.

What does that mean?

Like whatever hormones are in your body, it eats it like a little snack and it'll grow.

And so what does that do for your hormones then?

Does it imbalance them?

If I was to have done nothing, I don't think I would have noticed a difference in my hormones.

The tumor would grow.

So what they've done is I have my ovaries

suppressed right now with a monthly shot that I get and a daily pill.

So now at 34, I'm in medically induced menopause, which means hot flashes, it can impact my sex life.

I think that takes a little bit longer.

So I'm trying to be proactive on that.

Your hair thins, basically anything that you would go through in like your normal menopausal state, I'm going through right now.

So medical induced menopause is putting you into menopause.

Yeah.

For to slow down the hormone?

Yeah.

So they're trying to like eliminate like as many hormones that are in my body.

So like the first thing I obviously did with the diagnosis was like stop birth control completely.

And then your over like a lot of people will actually remove their ovaries because that's producing hormones.

And so that's a big decision that I'm not ready to make.

And it's a very permanent one.

And so for me, yeah, I just get this shot that suppresses my my ovaries.

And so it decreases the amount of hormones that are like flowing through my body.

But some people could choose to remove their ovaries some people choose to do a mastectomy or double mastectomy

your type of breast cancer does not require you to do that or you're traveling for the breast surgery

so it's it's all it's again it's like so layered for my type of cancer and given that i'm stage four a lot of doctors kind of have this mentality of like it's already spread there's there's not an improvement by having your breasts removed okay um the data shows shows, according to them, it doesn't make that big of a difference.

However, a lot of people, regardless of what stage you are, are like,

get these off of me.

And that's where I'm at.

I want them removed.

I'll probably do reconstruction.

The problem that I'm running into right now is we have to make sure the medicine is working first

before I'm allowed to then pursue surgery.

With doctor, some doctors saying that it doesn't really help, what is the decision-making process for you

to want them gone?

Yeah.

So I think a lot of it, there's obviously like mental peace of like, I need these gone.

When you're diagnosed with cancer, they do genetic testing.

And I found out I have what's called an ATM mutation, which is also kind of in the same breast cancer category of like you have an increased chance of having breast cancer.

Okay.

And so despite even being stage four, I just want to eliminate as much of the cancer, of the hormones, anything I can to improve my

mental health, my physical health, I'm going to do.

Right.

And so I

want them removed.

My team is very supportive.

You know, they kind of were like, you're the captain of the ship.

You, you guide us.

Here's our feedback.

At the end of the day, we're going to do what you want to do.

So you have a good team behind you.

Yes.

I know that some people go through hell trying to find a team that doesn't treat them like a number.

And so it sounds like you have a good team.

New York was great.

Good.

And was that part of the decision-making process to come here?

Or you, or it was because of Jeff?

It was for Jeff.

Like, we were ready to start our lives together.

And so we always knew that was going to be in New York.

I think I just got very lucky finding the team that I did here.

I did as much research as I could, but I'm also on the

self-employed market plan, you know, and I'm like, who's within network?

You know, I know I'm going to pay a lot this year for stuff.

So, what's the gold level of like insurance coverage?

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Did you have a hard time initially when when you like were finding out that you know you had this lump and you wanted to look at, did people ever give you a hard time from the beginning of your journey?

I don't think so.

I think like once once it was known it was cancer, everyone is very like supportive.

Doctors were very supportive.

You know, everything just felt very

like hand-holding.

Yeah.

You know, which you need.

Yeah.

So nothing stands out as having like a hard time necessarily.

Sure.

There is this weird, like, I don't know if it's guilt, but there's people who go through cancer and go through chemo.

And I was one day away from when I was supposed to have chemotherapy.

I had a port placed in my chest, which is where the chemotherapy would have gone.

And then a day before the doctors called and said, wait, the testing was wrong from Kaiser.

You actually don't have to do chemotherapy.

Which it was like a whole thing.

And so then there's like this almost like, I don't know if it's guilt or like, it's just a weird feeling that I can't really put into words about how i don't have to do chemo but other people did you know and sort of like survivor's guilt on my maybe yeah and i and you know i use reddit there's breast cancer communities on reddit and i use those for myself and there was one time where i i saw someone writing about me um me and olivia munn in terms of like maybe not being like quote a good enough like cancer patient you know and i responded i don't think she was expecting that but i'm like you know here you are upset that i didn't have to do chemo but here i am jealous you get to like carry your own child.

Here's- Stop.

I'll cry right now.

But it's the truth, you know, it's like you people, you can't compare.

Like, at the end of the day, anyone in like the club of cancer sucks.

Like, no matter how bad your situation seems, like, someone else, like, has it potentially worse, you know?

Yeah.

And, like, it's not a competition.

Like, we're all just like.

fucked, you know?

For sure.

And obviously, no shade to you, but she probably was not handling it well.

Yeah.

And it's, you know, misery does love company.

And although cancer is not fair for anyone, I think that's probably where she just didn't have anyone, you know what I mean?

No, and I get it.

And because I still get those messages sometimes where people will be like, well, you have all this like access and support and da-da-da.

And it's like, okay, but I'm using my access and support to like educate other people for sure to bring attention to these nonprofits, to teach you how to be, you know, proactive on your health because finding it early is like how you save your life.

Right.

You know, and unfortunately, I didn't, I didn't get that opportunity because I didn't know.

Yeah.

And so like all I want to do is like make sure other

sorry.

Don't apologize.

I just want to make sure like other women don't have to go through like what I went through.

Yeah.

How are you feeling today like overall?

Overall, like I feel like a lot better than I have been.

Yeah.

You know, I think in the early stages, you are just so

like devastated.

You cry in a way you've never cried.

You're, you're questioning everything.

You're like, what did I do wrong like how how come i have cancer you know and and the thing i'll say to anyone listening is you can try to find an answer and think oh it's because i'm not vegan but then you you meet a vegan who has cancer you're like oh it's because i didn't have kids yet and then you meet someone who has kids and so there's really not like some magic answer that you're you're hoping to find because i think a lot of people want to like place guilt on themselves and be like oh i shouldn't have drank as much as i did in college whatever it is you know yeah um i think with cancer uh it's a mindset you know, and I've gotten a lot better with my mindset about, you know, just doing everything I can do and what I'm allowed to do and just know that I'm showing up, I'm doing the best.

And,

you know, stage four sounds very scary and it can be, but no, cancer or not, we're never promised tomorrow.

And I think that's what I like, I'm really trying to hold on to instead of putting some like invisible like countdown over my head.

Right.

And when you say you're doing everything you can do, do you have restrictions for what you can and can't do right now?

Um,

I mean, people, it's all a very personal choice, but people have an opinion on drinking.

People have an opinion on meat, you know, like all these different things.

And so I'm doing

what I feel is best for my body in terms of like my diet and lifestyle, you know.

Am I still drinking a glass of wine?

Yeah, I am because I'm going to live my life, you know.

Imagine I quit drinking and quit eating meat.

And then I still end up like, you know, passing from cancer.

Like I, there's, you have to kind of balance, you know, like what feels best for you.

Because if you live every day in fear and restrictions of things, um, what there's not a point of living, you know, like you have to do that.

How do you get there?

How do you get to that place for other people who might be in your same situation?

How do you get to a place where you are not living in fear of the worst?

It's an ongoing practice.

Like

today, I'm okay.

Tomorrow, I will have a breakdown and be deep on the archives of like cancer and survivorship.

And like, you know, it's I don't think it ever ends especially stage four because technically you have it forever being stage four and what does that mean when it's stage four like having it forever so the way it works is stage three or less means it's contained within the the breast okay stage four means they found it somewhere else so for me it's in my liver and what that basically means is the cancer is like in your blood and so the way i try to describe it to people is um sometimes the molecules of this cancer are are so small you can't see it on like a scan.

So even if I remove the breast, even if the liver spot is removed, you know, and on a scan, it doesn't look like I have cancer anymore.

They know it has spread.

And therefore, like even in the smallest little molecule kind of way,

the cancer is still like existing in my body.

And there's no way as of now to like take it out of my body.

Okay.

So then you would be living with it.

Yeah.

So it's, it's long term, forever, as of now.

The way I kind of describe it to people is like a diabetic person.

It's like every day they take their insulin and they just move on with their life.

And it's just what they do every day.

And so that's where I'm at right now: I every day take medicine, like four pills a day, and then a monthly shot.

And we're,

it's called your first line of treatment, meaning like you hope it works and you hope it works for a long time.

But because it is forever, sometimes your body eventually like outsmarts that and you got to go to like your second line of treatment, your third you know so that is a little scary because I've met people who are now on their font like that they've exhausted all their resources they've been stage four but for 10 years oh wow so I mean people definitely like are living very for the most part normal lives

but if medical advancements don't continue like some people are really just out of options and just kind of

hoping and praying would that be considered remission or no like if if you're you were saying that some somebody could could live 10 years, would that be remission or not really?

I don't think they use the word remission.

They use the word no evidence of disease.

Okay.

So with like stage three, you're remission or like you're cancer free and you ring that bell.

You know, when you're stage four,

you're just, you're just fighting a battle every day.

And so yeah, you're hoping just your scans show that it's not there anymore.

Alessandra and I know two different women, our age in their 30s, who have tried to get mammograms and were declined, like they were not allowed to, which I think is so interesting because you were talking about in the in your 30s it's so much more like more common than people think yeah and I think that's really insane well I have advice on that please share

it I have so much advice okay so if you're wanting to get a mammogram there's there's layers to it so first of all what's your family history and I'm not talking breast cancer I'm talking just cancer in general both men and women.

Make sure your doctors know.

Have you or anyone in your family ever had a genetic test that shows any kind of genetic mutation, not just BRCA, but like ATM or anything else that exists out there?

If anyone feels not just a lump, that was my personal experience, a lump, but like dimpling of the breast, discharge, anything that just seems itchiness even, pain, anything that seems not normal for their regular breasts, you have to bring that up to your doctor.

And so the first step before the mammogram is a breast ultrasound.

So if your doctor is declining further exploration because you fall under the category of like like something is wrong tell them to document that then say put that in writing that you are not going to allow me to explore this further like put it in my chart yeah put it in my chart they will change their mind so fast so i get to a certain extent if you have nothing except your peace of mind that is causing you to like want to get a mammogram a little harder but if you have anything

his family history,

any symptom, not just pain, not a physical lump, you know, even with your, with your scan that you got, it sounds like maybe there was something in there.

I'd be like, this is what it says.

I want a breast ultrasound.

If they say no, then say, put that on my chart.

You know, people who are overall healthy, right?

Like, I don't have a whole lot of health concerns.

I don't care to have a PCP because that's also part of it, though, is like, we have to be proactive about our own health, but we need to make sure that we have the providers for that.

So I wouldn't, if I had something, I wouldn't even be able to go to a primary.

You know what I mean?

So that's hard.

And I think just advocating for women, talking about our health and advocating being proactive and things like that is probably super helpful.

I will say with your personal or primary care provider, I've only seen mine in New York once because I had to establish a

starting point.

Right, right, right.

So figure out, you know, who you're, who your insurance, I hope you have in your duplication,

who's covered, do a quick little search.

You know, all it is is a starting point.

They don't,

it's the person who then refers you to the next, the next doctor.

Are there any misconceptions about breast cancer that you could possibly share with the listeners?

I think for me, people look at me and go, you don't look sick.

And I think, one,

they might think they're being complimentary, but it's like, it's not something we want to hear because like, oh, no, I have like a terminal, I'm stage four breast cancer, you know, like, I don't know what you think I'm supposed to look like, you know?

So I think people expect you to look like a certain way.

Yeah.

Or because you don't look that way, they don't take you as seriously.

And it's like, no, I still have a lot of physical and mental stresses that I'm going through and trying to, you know, fix myself.

Sure.

No, that makes sense.

So PCP,

um,

arguing for mammograms, put it in your chart.

Yeah.

At least a breast ultrasound.

Like, you don't want to do a mammogram, that's fine.

Also, I just, I do want to just add, because I'm obviously very passionate about this, ask what the cost of a mammogram is then if it's not through an insurance company.

Cause sometimes it's like, depending where you go, it can be like as little as like a hundred bucks for like that peace of mind.

People think a mammogram is like thousands of dollars.

I think at the high end, it's like $400.

Okay.

So you could pay out of pocket if you're not.

Yeah, you're like, okay,

I, because they're declining you because they don't want it to like insurance will deny you, but it's like, what if I want to pay out of pocket then?

Because you're like that committed, you know?

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Really quick, going back to your wedding.

Did you get married and then you had started treatment a a few days later?

Is that true?

I started IVF.

Okay.

I was like in the middle of IVF because I remember being very bloated in my

elopement dress and being like, oh my God, people don't think we're getting married because I'm pregnant right now or something.

Like, no, I'm just full of extra eggs and hormones.

And you did the egg retrieval?

Yes.

Did it go okay?

Yes.

We got two embryos.

Oh, that's exciting.

Which, for anyone who doesn't know, getting embryos is actually really tough.

As an adult, it's so fucking hard sometimes to get actually pregnant.

And so, like, I went from 17 eggs retrieved, then it got cut down to like nine were mature enough to even be fertilized.

Then it was six were fertilized.

Then, of the six, three made it to like day five.

So, quickly, like, your numbers are like dropping.

Yeah, and then of those three, they get um genetically tested.

And so, one of them, they

it would have likely like ended up being a miscarriage.

So, of all of that from 17, we got two, two embryos.

So, we're hopeful that that's that's

all we need.

The scary part is

even having an embryo, it's not a guarantee.

Right.

You know, it's possible one of them or both of them don't end up coming to full term.

So that's scary.

There's a whole surrogacy piece of it that I have to like now explore that I just never expected.

Sure.

Are you able to, because you said it was in your blood, are you able to do a retrieval later on or no?

So

I think I technically could, but the risk in that with IVF is you're injecting hormones in your body.

And that's what your cancer is feeding off of.

Yeah.

So there's a potential if I needed to.

And that's where it's like tough timing wise.

It's like, do we want to do more IVF if we have these two eggs or do we only want to pursue it if these two eggs don't end up working?

You know, it's like, it's a very heavy conversation that Jeff and I keep having because it's like, well, we're not ready to.

like pursue surrogacy this year, you know, but then also surrogacy takes a long time in terms of finding the right match.

And there's a lot of like medical and background checks that go into surrogacy and like legal.

And like, it's a whole beast that I'm just not experiencing yet.

Right.

No, I could imagine how that would be really difficult.

And I'm sure there are so many things that you guys want to do, especially, you know, just we're halfway through the year.

What else?

Do you guys have anything to look forward to this year?

Yeah.

I don't know if Jeff will be mad at me for saying this, but I'll say it.

I'll put it this way.

Jeff has like something really big coming up at the end of this year.

So like he's focused on getting ready to do that.

You know, we just moved here.

I finally just furnished my apartment.

Like we're just like, let's just chill.

Like we got a puppy like in the what kind?

He's a rescue.

So he's a mixed, like he's like a lab, pit bull, great thing.

Like he's a little bit of everything.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I love that.

Yeah.

What's it like having a dog in the city?

I feel like, is that rough?

It's very rough.

Our apartment luckily has like a little patio space.

It's kind of like

so that's super helpful.

But

I'd never had a dog before.

I'm definitely a cat lady.

I learned.

Dogs dogs are hard because they when you're potty training them they go in the like babies wear diapers so they just pee and poop in the diapers but dogs are like all over the house and babies aren't freaking eating up your shoes and underwear and court like they're you can contain it i understand

so i don't i'm not a mom and i don't want to like discredit motherhood no no but i feel like a puppy's very freaking hard

I always say that the puppies are harder than the kids, to be honest.

So

then I can, I can make it through motherhood in the future.

Oh, for sure.

Without a doubt.

Do you feel like cancer has impacted your confidence at all?

Yeah, I'd say so.

I mean,

my hair is thinning, which you might be like, it looks fine.

But like, I know that it's thinning.

I see it come out in bigger clumps than it has.

The medicine impacts your weight, your energy.

And so I'm only about three months into like treatment, whatever that is, it's treatment.

And so there is a level of like, what,

how is this going to impact me appearance-wise, wise even beginning of this podcast i was like stuttering and like that's even like your mind is like so foggy sometimes and that's um

i i use the word embarrassing but like i know you're not judging me but i'm judging me you know um

but also you with cancer you do have a new perspective on like what really matters i'm like okay if i gain 30 pounds but i'm alive so be it right you know and i'm like if my hair is thinning like okay like you're allowed to feel the feelings but you do have a different view on what's important and put obviously life like ahead of beauty.

Yeah.

And being in the industry

and having such a big platform, I'm sure like you're used to like people just like having a comment on everything with our appearances.

And so that's tough, but my perspective is, I think, evolving and growing for the better since my diagnosis.

And how does your husband support you through all of this?

Because obviously he's been with you every step of the way, but he's not, he doesn't have cancer.

He's not going through it himself.

So how do you guys work out?

You know, what's the dynamic?

Yeah, there's so many things he's done.

The one that stood out like right away from the beginning was he's like, I'm gonna pay rent, which I know that sounds so little, but I'm like, that was great because, like, I, I could focus on like paying for like my medical stuff and not being like, oh, I got to get this brand deal because I got to make sure I pay my part of the rent, you know, like financially, he's like taking off what he can so that I can just focus on, you know, treatment.

And then, when it comes to decisions on like kids and ivf you know ivf is hard like to anyone who's done it it is cancer or not it was hard to do it's shots every day in your stomach and your emotions are hot and cold and it sucks and he's like if you don't want to do it again i support you like everything i've wanted to do even down to like breast reconstruction or some people just choose to go flat he's like i i support you and so just knowing that he's allowing me to like navigate the way that i need to and just knowing that he's always going to be there to support me no matter what is like i think all i needed to like truly mega through this

so how can other people support someone they love going through cancer so i have two pieces of advice one is definitely reach out i think some people don't know what to say yeah and i think it's easier to be vulnerable and admit that like i don't really know the right thing to say but i want to be there for you

um i kind of describe it as like Words are better than nothing, but actions are better than words.

And so the things that have helped me a lot, and I know it helps other people is go to dinner with me, go to coffee with me.

If I'm, if my energy is low, people sent me like post-meet gift cards and, you know, or offer to like take Charlie, our dog, off my hands for a few hours.

If they have kids, babysit for them.

Anything that you can do to help kind of remove a responsibility, whether that's eating, cleaning, cooking, dogs, whatever.

is going to make such a big impact to somebody who's going through cancer because you know if you're like just let me know how you how i can help they they don't know what's going on.

They don't know how to ask for help.

They don't know what they need help with.

Well, I think decision fatigue also.

For sure.

You're making enough decisions.

Yeah.

You know, what is it?

The mental load of your diagnosis, your treatment,

all the steps.

And so one more decision or one more ask for somebody else, I feel like would be really stressful.

Yeah.

What about mental health through?

all of this?

Yeah, I'm still trying to find the right therapist.

I was given one right away, obviously, and I, it just didn't didn't click you know therapy is like dating you got to find someone that like matches your energy and that you feel good about um i think therapy is so important and if not therapy find a group of other survivors you know other people who are going through it there's so many free support systems out there in terms of like that I think that's where I found the most support is talking to someone else who has cancer, someone who's been through it, someone who's stage four and like I said, 10 years out.

I'm like, okay, that feels like that feels good.

And we can talk about our medicine and our routines and how to like feel better during chemo and all these different things.

So if it's not therapy, it's just real life people going through it with you.

Is there anything that is helpful to you on the days that you just can't keep going?

You feel like you can't keep going?

I think learning to give yourself grace.

I feel oftentimes guilty if I take a nap or the house is dirty.

And I think on the days where I just feel like I can't keep going, I just, you just have to like reset.

And if that means like doing nothing, putting your phone away, binging TV, whatever you need to do that you feel guilty about, just do it.

Just indulge in the art of nothing.

And it sounds like your husband will be supportive of that.

Oh, yes, yes.

He's been gone.

So he comes home next month.

Next month.

Yeah.

He's been gone.

He's on a tour.

Yeah.

So like, and then that's not even, that's like Europe.

The other one is rescheduled for like this fall.

So what was that when he you got your diagnosis yeah and then he postponed the dates and the world tour in the beginning yeah he moved them but you're still going through treatment is that hard for you very hard yeah so we like again we got a puppy which was stupid

but we're good now but we like you know we had to put um our dog in training because like i can't be like new into my diagnosis and figuring out how to train a puppy and you're not here like that's crazy don't want to travel with him because your team is here and treatment is here yeah so every month i have to do some kind of treatment, blood work.

You know, I'm still very much in the early stages of exploring things.

Okay.

For example, next month I get my first free scan to see if the tumor is shrinking.

Is it growing?

If it's growing, that's not good.

That means the medicine's not working.

If it's staying the same, that's okay.

That's good.

So yeah, so I was able to meet him for like two weeks.

In we went to Barcelona and Italy, but I had to like coordinate with my doctor of like, okay, like how, what days do I need to make sure I'm back home?

Or like, what shots do I need to get before I leave?

And so we're doing that again.

Actually, I leave June 25th to be with him in Greece.

And then we come home together.

He's done

until the fall.

July 2nd.

And then my scan is July 7th.

How are you going?

I don't know how.

We were just watching a movie last night and it was somebody in the military and he was like doing, going overseas.

And then the wife was like, if you don't, if you leave again, like, I can't do this.

I feel like that is the same, right?

Like you're going through something.

How do you, but you have bills to pay.

So it's like, how, who, how do you decide?

Yeah.

Well, so the thing, him and I started off as a long distance couple.

So, and we, and we got a great foundation in our early stages of dating through that.

Um, in fact, literally, we were, we were long distance technically up until moving in together in March of this year.

Oh, wow.

So like we would see each other every couple weeks, but you know, like we were long distance.

We had to rely on texting and phone calls and FaceTime and memes or whatever to keep it spicy.

You know, that's spicy for a comedian, I guess, memes.

But, um, so that's kind of what we're doing now, you know, like, yeah, it's, it's really hard with him gone.

There's a certain, like, usually week two to three is when I'm like losing my mind, but then we know, like, okay, there's another trip coming where I get to see him.

Right.

So you just have that, like, that moment to like look forward to.

For sure.

No, I, I could see that.

Like, the, the highs keep coming.

They just, like, so many, like, strong emotions, I feel.

Yeah.

I enjoyed the interview.

Like in general, it was a very fun.

I'm glad.

Okay.

Fun rivers.

I'm nervous about it.

Thank you so much for coming on Barely Famous podcast.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for coming.

Where can people find you on socials?

My handle is the Katie Thurston on Instagram.

And that's pretty much my like starting point for anything.

Perfect.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you.

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