Small Towns, Big Feelings with Lucy Score

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Welcome to the shit show.

Things are going to get weird.

It's your fade villain, Kale Wower.

And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Today's guest is Lucy Score.

She's one of the biggest names in indie romance.

Her books are full of small towns, big emotions, swoony slowburns, and characters you wish were real.

She's built an empire from the ground up, gone viral on book talk, and somehow keeps things fun, grounded, and relatable.

All right, Lucy, thank you for joining me on Barely Famous Podcast.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited to be here.

You said this is your first in-person

which I'm so happy to be the first one.

Hopefully I set the bar high for all the other podcasts.

I think it'll all be downhill from here.

But first and foremost, Lucy is a pen name.

Is that right?

What made you decide to go under a pen name?

Well, when I started writing romance, I was working full-time for an accounting firm in marketing, and I just had this feeling.

I was like, I don't think.

they're gonna like me doing this on this side.

And so I was like, you know, I'm gonna have a cool pen name, Something short that's easy to sign.

Yeah, so I worked really hard to come up with the exact perfect name.

And I went with Lucy because my grandfather used to pretend that he couldn't remember my name and he'd always call me Lucy.

That's so cute.

What a cute story, though.

I, yep, so that was my nod to him.

And score came from the same night I picked Lucy.

We went to a ceremony for one of Mr.

Lucy's nephews.

And we're in this auditorium, and there's like this big marble surround over the stage, and the first couple of lines of the

Gettysburg address were carved into it, so it was four score.

And I was like, Lucy score, nailed it.

Yeah, no, I love that.

Are you actually familiar

with the rumor that you're Colleen Hoover's niece?

Oh my god, Colleen was the one who told me this.

Really?

And I think we figured out like a year later that I may have accidentally started that rumor.

Oh, good.

Because I have an aunt, Colleen, and I dedicated a book to her and i think people just made the leap that

you were because colleen hoover is one year older than me or no one month older than me she's

i was born in january and i was yeah i thought that was hilarious i i had a dm from her a couple years ago and i'm like oh my gosh colleen hoover is in my dms and she's like hey have you heard that i'm your aunt

So you did, you started that rumor.

Accidentally.

Are you related to any other authors that we should know about?

no not to my knowledge okay but i'm i'm hoping that somewhere in my genealogy will be like a cool author or something i i had um tamara mowry on the podcast a lot like what last year and her last name is one letter off from me and i used to tell everybody that i was related to her because our last names were almost the same Don't know how I got there, but I started that rumor myself as well.

Seems logical.

So your most recent book is Story of My Life, and this is the beginning of a new series for you.

Yep.

Okay.

Let's talk about it.

What was the writing process like for this book this was a little hectic this one took me longer than usual but i was enjoying it so much i didn't start to panic until right before my deadline um i just i wanted to write a book dedicated to my readers um and i had had this idea for a really long time about a romance novelist who would go and build a town like one of her fictional towns she would build it in real life and i was like oh my gosh that would be such a great movie and i don't know how to write a screenplay So I was like, I guess this idea is just going to die with me.

And I was explaining it to my agent one day.

She's like, make it a book.

Yeah.

Like, oh, yeah, that's actually a really good idea.

So I changed it a little bit.

But

basically the heroine, Hazel, is a romance novelist.

So I had to do very little professional research for this, which was convenient.

And she moves to a small town for inspiration and kind of helps reinvigorate the town.

And when you start a book, do you know right off the bat whether it's going to be a series or a standalone?

Usually, yeah.

With my knock them out series, I didn't know.

I started writing the first one.

I started writing Things We Never Got Over as a standalone.

And then that kind of messed me up big time when I realized it was going to be a three-book series.

But this time, I had my shit together and I knew that this was book one of three.

Okay, so also three.

And how do you decide what you're going to build off of?

You just do.

Yeah, it's the vibe, I think.

I really love starting with a grumpy sunshine,

enemies to lovers, that kind of story.

And I don't know, I love book ones because I love creating the world.

I love sinking into this small town and figuring out who all the people are and what all the businesses are.

And I just, I really have a good time with that.

So that's where I started with this one.

Do you pull any inspiration from your own life?

Like maybe where you're from or even your personality and any of your characters?

Definitely.

I mean, I'm

relatively boring and I don't have a lot of life, but I do love to eavesdrop on other people.

Our favorite sushi place, the tables are like almost stacked on top of each other.

So I cannot wait to go there every time because I always get like great little nuggets of life and relationships and interactions.

And so yeah, I'm just constantly mining real life for something that I can pull into fiction, but in a totally legal sense.

Yeah, for sure.

Do you have a favorite part of this writing process or a favorite part of this book?

I think my favorite part of the writing process is kind of the beginning when I'm full of ideas.

and energy and motivation and you know it's the sky's the limit nothing's wrong with this story yet um and i'm so far away from deadline there's there's no stress i love the beginning um i get really hung up on like the two-thirds part That's when I realize all the problems with what I've written so far and I start to panic.

And then the last like third of it is I'm coming up on deadline and I have got to hit it.

So I need to work really hard, really fast.

I think my favorite scene in the book was their meet cute when she's driving into town for the first time and a bald eagle crashes into her and she crashes into the town's welcome sign.

I was, you know, I was like, what is the worst possible first impression you could make

as a heroine in a romance novel?

And I was like, oh, hitting a bald eagle would pretty much do the trick for sure.

No bald eagles were actually harmed in the making of this book.

I would just like to say that.

Did you always want to be an author?

No, I wanted to be Lois Lane.

I wanted to be a journalist.

I went to college for journalism.

And then I realized how depressing the news was.

And I was like, oh, this is not going to feed my soul.

No.

This is going to kill my soul.

So I worked a series of real jobs, none of which I was good at.

None.

I got fired and laid off a lot.

But in my spare time, I was always writing little stories, little scenes that it was just my hobby.

And

I think when I was working at a newspaper when 50 Shades of Gray was really popular and we were passing the book around the newsroom and I remember reading it and finding out that it was originally self-published and I was like, what?

So I, I, that's when I think the bug was planted.

Yeah.

I, I was like, I, my mom is a librarian.

So she was always like, why don't you write a book?

I'm like, books are so long.

Yeah, it's a lot of work.

Mine, especially.

I think the knock them out series is like 600 pages each, right?

Yeah, they're huge.

It definitely set you apart from other romance authors, I would say.

When I first got into reading a couple years ago, like what, two?

two years ago.

I hadn't seen books that thick, right?

Like romance novels.

I was like seeing like maybe around like 250, 300 pages.

And so, and then I learned about the Knock Them Out series was the first time I heard about Lucy Score.

So

what was your first, first published book?

Undercover Love in 2015.

So it's my 10-year anniversary this year.

So exciting.

And you published 25?

I think around 35.

35.

I'm not 100% sure.

I think it's 35.

And did you start self-publishing or did you did?

And so what was your, like, what was the final push that made you decide, okay, I'm going to try to publish this book by myself?

I was,

I didn't like the idea of gatekeepers, you know, like I'm, I'm a hold my beer kind of person.

So I was like, I don't want some complete stranger just reading a couple chapters and saying, no, you're not good enough.

So my, my first book I self-published and sold 35 whole copies.

And thankfully, my brother had shared a link to the book in one of his forums at the time.

And these two authors who were self-publishing had started their own publishing imprint.

Oh, cool.

And they reached out and asked if I would let them publish it under their label.

So that was, it came out in 2015, and they did my first five books.

And then I felt like I learned a lot from the process.

And I was like, I think I can do this myself.

Myself, meaning me and dragging Tim, Mr.

Lucy, along for the ride.

He, I asked him if he would be my publisher.

So he was like, let's give it a try.

So the next 20 books were,

yeah, he still does all of my digital.

So he still publishes my e-books and my audio books.

And then I have print deals.

That's so exciting.

It's really, really cool.

Like, I love that.

It's like, you know, maintaining authorship and ownership of those rights is like just really exciting.

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Has it been hard for you to find a balance between keeping your private life private and then also having Lucy score as your full-time?

I honestly feel like I'm basically 98% Lucy at this point.

I don't have any, I don't use any personal social media anymore

because I just can't, I can't keep up.

So when you go out in public and people recognize you, do they call you Lucy?

Do people know it's a pen name?

Yes.

Okay, okay.

I didn't know if that was like groundbreaking information.

And you have another book in the works in addition to this series, The Body in the Backyard.

Oh my gosh, my Riley Thorne series.

Yes.

I'm obsessed with it.

It's okay.

It's like

a little cult series.

Like it's, it, it does not have the star power of knock a mountain story of my life, but I am obsessed with this series.

It's, I said it in Harrisburg, which is right across the river from where we live.

And she's, she's a reluctant psychic and she falls in love with a private investigator.

So it's a series of, you know, solving murders and missing persons cases.

And it's, it's ridiculous.

It's so over the top.

It's, I love writing it.

So that's an ongoing series.

Yes.

Story of My Life, or Story Lake is an ongoing series.

And then I have a bunch of ideas for

more.

How does it work?

Because I've talked to some authors that have like a book a year or they'll, they'll do 18 months or they'll have, I think Frida was talking about having several books in a year.

So how do you decide?

What's kind of deciding for me right now is the pacing, I think.

I'm a slow writer.

Okay.

And

with

how everything has exploded since the Knock them Out series, there's a lot more happening on the business end of things, which I'm sure you totally get.

Like, you know, there's, there's this sliver of creative process and then there's everything that supports that.

Sure.

And so that that side of things has really slowed me down.

Yeah.

So last year and this year, I'm only putting out one new release.

Bloom Books, my North American print publisher, has been re-releasing all of my backlist in paperback.

So that's exciting to see new readers discover old books.

But it's a lot of work.

So I was only able to write one book last year and this year, but I'm hoping to, I will,

hashtag manifestation.

I will write to and release two for 2026.

That's exciting.

I will say, being a part of the reader community though, like we're willing to wait for quality books.

I appreciate that.

I think so often, like maybe it's hard to gauge what the pacing looks like, but if you're pumping out so many books, it's like, how much time can you really put into it?

Right.

And so I would say, Emily, she's a co-host on my book club.

We would, we appreciate that for sure.

How has your husband supported your career as an author?

He has been called him amazing.

Mr.

Lucy, I know.

He was rolling his eye.

He was always like, I don't want to be Johnny Carson.

I want to be Ed McMahon.

He's like, I don't want to be up front.

I don't want to be in front of people.

He's been amazing.

Like, not just from, he handles all of the business side of things.

Like, he's the reason why I'm not in IRS jail or

making sure the taxes get paid.

The accounting, the taxes.

He coordinates all the editorial process across publishers because we also have foreign publishers.

He basically acts as my manager.

But in addition to all that, he's just been really supportive of me and my process.

I mean, it's living with a romance author is intense, you know?

I can't imagine because I don't know how you feel when you're reading a book, but I feel it.

Oh, yeah, you're like in the book.

You're in the book.

For sure.

So I will be writing the big giant breakup scene and I will be devastated for two days.

Like in my real life, I will be depressed and feeling like, oh my gosh, I'm going through a breakup.

And he, you know, he's

it.

So do you just give her her space?

Yeah, he's nodding his head.

So we love the support.

Do you ever pull inspo for your characters, the boyfriends from him, from Mr.

Lucy?

Yeah.

You have to, right?

Yeah, the second book in the Blue Moon series,

Fall Into Temptation, the hero has this heart of gold and he's also incredibly stubborn and very dedicated to doing the right thing and that was like definitely mr lucy and then um

uh things we never got over knox's uh grumpiness with like the teddy bear underneath that is also

that guy does he know which one which characters are inspired by him i don't know like i you know without me telling him i don't know if he's you know he's like i i say that sometimes yeah that's so cute you were talking about foreign publishers and we were just talking talking about not part of the plan, having a brand new cover.

Do you have any say in what goes on the cover?

Do you just kind of give a vibe?

In the North American stuff, I have a lot of say on the covers.

With the foreign editions, so I've been published in, I think, 30 different languages now, which is so cool.

So I have less of a say

on the foreign language editions, but also I tend to trust

them to know what works best in their market because, you know, the Finnish market is going to be way different than the North American market and things like that.

So it's really exciting to me to see what people come up with

what their visual inspiration is for these books.

I love the covers.

I think they're so cute.

Actually did we designed

book marks and Kindle case covers inspired by the Knock Them Out series.

Oh my God.

These are a couple of them.

I'll show you.

Because they're just so bright.

I love that.

That's so cute.

Yeah.

So I'll send you home with these.

When did you know that writing books was going to work?

Like that you were going to do this full-time.

Okay.

I'm still not convinced.

You're like, am I living in the twilight?

I still live under the apprehension that this could all go away at any moment.

And I think I'm okay with that.

I think it makes me appreciate it so much more

because I am terrified that it could all go away.

What happened is

my second book was going to come out.

I was still working a full-time job and I had a plan.

I was gonna write, I was gonna take five years and I was gonna save up one year of salary and I was gonna,

after that five years, I was gonna take the year off and try to be a full-time author.

The Wednesday or the Monday or whenever before my second book came out, I started to get nervous because a couple of my coworkers found out that I was writing on the side and they were like really supportive and excited.

But it's a small office and secrets don't keep.

So I finally, I went to one of the bosses and I confessed.

I was like, hey, I just wanted to let you know I've been writing romance novels on the side and, you know, it's a hobby and I really love it.

And she was like, oh, good for you.

Congratulations.

The next day they called me into the conference room.

All of the bosses were there.

And I sit down.

I'm like, what's up, guys?

And they're like, yeah, we're going to close down your department and you have until the end of the year to find a new job.

Because you were writing romance novels or just the time was super suspect like let's just is there a reason why you couldn't do both uh

no i don't think so i i can't guess but it all worked out for the best but the very next day

my second book came out and two weeks later it hit number one on amazon and i was able to quit early oh so you didn't even finish out the year with i didn't even finish out the year because i spent 24 hours being devastated i I was like, I have to stop writing books.

I have to start working on a resume.

I have to get a job.

This is my five-year plan has to start all over again.

And that second book just struck a chord with readers.

Thank God.

And I have been full-time ever since.

What a crazy story.

I know.

I mean, like, just, and isn't that life?

You know, you go from being absolutely devastated to it turning out to be one of the best things that ever happened.

Like a blessing in disguise.

Yeah.

How did that feel to have your book number one on Amazon?

That was crazy.

I was really, I wanted it bad.

And I was watching.

I had been sitting at number two for, I think, like a full week.

And I just wanted that one spot so badly.

And there was this one author who wouldn't give it up.

And I remember I was in the car with a coworker.

We went for lunch.

And I just hit refresh on my phone.

And I was like, I'm number one.

I mean, I was like rolling down the window, screaming, so excited.

And that that other author ended up messaging me and congratulating me.

Isn't that so nice?

I know.

It was so nice.

His name's Matthew Fitzsimmons, and he was writing thrillers.

I think he writes sci-fi now.

But

so we kept in touch for a while after that.

And we ended up naming characters after each other in future books because we had this like competition.

So my character Fitz in Blue Moon, who is a used bookstore-owning hippie who strips on the side,

was named after

me and killed me and oh no but that's a cool story though do book do the um book talkers know that i don't know i don't think so because this was so

before back in 2015 yeah yeah wow that's really cool though it was really neat and it just i mean that's that's the author community for you you know yeah so you found support in the author community yeah

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I talked to one thriller author and she said that the author community was not good to her.

That's that's such a shame.

Well, I think it's hard because obviously you all want to be number one or you know in the top 10, the top five.

And so when someone else, it's like, why can't, why couldn't that be me?

And so it's hard.

It's bittersweet.

You want to be happy for someone, but you also want it for yourself.

And I can imagine that that's I think that's something that we all work on a lot because we're all doing the same job.

We all want the same things.

Right.

But there's,

I think I went through a phase where I just felt like the scarcity mentality.

I felt like if somebody else had that number one spot or if somebody else got that huge publishing deal, that meant I couldn't have it.

And I eventually realized that it is absolutely not true.

Every time

somebody, a romance author hits number one on Amazon, that just makes it more possible for somebody else sure every time somebody signs a seven-figure deal that makes it more possible for me and so I think it just it really was a big mindset shift to realize that other people's successes are just showing me the way it's showing me what's possible how does it work for authors that are trying to

Like when they're releasing their book, is it a timing thing?

Or does, how often does the New York Times list come out and stuff?

Once a week.

Oh, once a week.

So there's, you could hit it at any point in 52 weeks out of the year, right?

Yep.

Okay.

So that's exciting.

Yeah.

So there's like 52 opportunities.

You never know.

I mean, you could have a launch and it could not hit and BookTalk could get a hold of it six months later and make it go viral and you're on the New York Times.

Like you six months, six months later.

Yeah, or a year later or even more.

You know, it's really exciting to see what's possible now.

Yeah.

Well, I was going to say, how do you think BookTalk has impacted your career and your book sales and, you know, all of that?

Oh my gosh, the knock them out series, things we never got over, book talk discovered that.

I don't think I was even on TikTok at the time when it happened because I'm a grand, a grandma, I don't understand how social media works.

Me neither.

Just kidding.

I mean, I don't know how to make anything on there, but they found this book and they loved it.

And it was

there, it was just so authentic and organic that I will just never forget that.

It was, it was the power of these young women telling other young women all about something that they they love.

Right.

And I don't, I don't know what's more powerful than that.

It was, it was incredible.

So I'm very grateful for what that did.

It opened me and my backlist up to an entirely new audience.

And that was really, really exciting.

Because I would imagine if someone likes, you know, sees someone talk about your book, one of your books on Book Talk, they might, they want to go look up the rest of your books, which then is successful.

Emily and I were just talking about how literally, if we'll say we read a new author, for example, she recently got into Megan Quinn, she'll go in and buy every single book that written by you know what I mean.

And

when

we fell in love with Still Beating by Jennifer Hartman, went in and bought every single book.

So it's like, even if we don't get to them on our TBR, we're still going to go support the author if we like one of their books, which is kind of cool, I would imagine, for you guys.

I love readers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And once you buy one of them, you have to buy the whole series because then it only counts as one book.

And so girl, math, just right.

Library math.

Do you pull inspiration inspiration from any other romance authors?

Oh, oh my gosh.

Everything that I read, everything I see on TV,

everything is inspiration to me.

It's just really,

I don't know.

It's my brain works in such a weird way.

I think it makes me a good writer, and I think it makes me a less good human being just because I'm not.

fully present in any moment because I'm constantly the writer part of me is like, oh, that would be funny.

Or what if this happened?

or you know like yeah yeah it's just it's constant it's exhausting and exasperating and absolutely delightful how do you know if you get an idea that you're gonna write about it like do you keep a notes app or anything and you're like okay this might make a story later on you would die if you saw my iPhone notes app like I I keep notes on everything I keep notes on names that I like for characters um story ideas every one of my social media accounts has a list of like a secret list of book inspiration.

So it'll be, you know,

it's anything.

My, my second book that made me a full-time author, Pretend Your Mine, that entire book came from me binge watching

Soldier Homecoming videos.

Are you serious?

I am dead.

Like on TikTok?

Or like just social media in general?

Yeah,

I don't know what I was watching it on back in 2015.

Oh, those will make me cry.

Like the compilation ones that they do on TikTok.

I'm like, it's 7.30 in the morning.

I was sobbing.

And that's where that entire book came from.

What were some of the biggest changes that you made when you decided to continue with a full-time career in writing?

I struggled because I was like, oh my gosh, I am no longer dedicating nine hours of my day to working for someone else.

This is going to be so amazing.

I'm going to get so much more done.

It does, it did not work like that.

No, I was like, I'm home.

I'll do a load of laundry.

I'm home.

I need a snack.

You're just distracted.

I was.

I find it very hard to even podcast at home because I'll look at my phone.

I'm eating snacks.

I'm like clicking around on my computer.

My kids are walking.

It's really hard.

It is.

It is.

So it took me probably a year before I kind of found my groove.

And now, you know, now I have it down to a science.

Like I'm good.

But yeah, it was a, it was a big transition.

Like I felt for people when everybody was moved home during COVID and the lockdown because everybody had to learn to do their jobs from home and homeschool.

And I just, I really, I, I felt their pain.

No, I completely agree.

And you were telling us before we started rolling that you have sort of like a family affair of your family reads all your books and then your brother, you had to do,

you had to hire him in order to get him to read your books.

No, he was the lone holdout.

He was like, I'm not reading your books.

No, no.

Was there a reason?

He's a huge reader.

Well, i think i've been told my voice comes across very clearly in my books so i guess when you know me okay that can make the sex scenes awkward

so he's reading them now he's yeah he proofs all of our audiobooks so he and my sister our younger sister madison she writes for us now too oh i actually did read that so what is that like working with your brother it's awesome i mean he and i have gotten along since he was born you know we're we have always been good friends.

We have the same personality and the same sense of humor.

Like, I feel so bad for all of our significant others when Dan and Madison and I are together because we are the same person and it's just, it's a lot.

It's, I think, personally, it's incredibly entertaining.

Yeah.

I think we should go on the road together.

I think, you know, for a book tour, I should take them.

Mr.

Lucy is shaking his head.

I don't know about that.

Do you like working with her family?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You guys have a good time oh yeah i love that do you have any um authors that you read regularly

you feel like naming them or like off the top of my head i have you ever read leanne moriarty yes um

apples don't apples don't you know apples never fall yep um

My favorite of hers is the hypnotist love story.

Okay, I love that one.

So good.

And The Husband's Secret was really, really good.

That one, like, you get to the epilogue and you're reading it, and you're like,

What just happened?

But that's not your

genre that you write.

No, no, no, I read everything.

Okay, same.

I just recently got into dystopia, I think it's called.

And we were just talking about it.

I don't even know what categories I'm reading, what genres I'm reading.

I just like what I like.

Exactly.

I don't know.

I'm the same exact way.

I can't stay focused on all the labels because the names change anyway.

And I'm just like, I like this.

Yeah.

I, um, a couple books, Wild Dark Shore, I just read this year, and I'm obsessed with with it, but that's Charlotte

McConaughey.

Okay.

Yeah.

Love that one.

It's a good one.

But it's like dystopia.

I don't think it's like thriller like man.

All right.

Can you walk us through your Pomodoro writing style?

Yeah.

What is that?

Oh my gosh.

So I write in sprints.

Okay.

So my attention is very hard to harness.

So I've gone through a lot of

action plans and I've tried a bunch of different hacks, but this is the one that works best for me.

I go into my office, I turn turn my music on, I put my headphones on, and I have a visual timer.

Like it's not like numbers, it's like red.

Okay.

So I set it for 25 minutes and then the only thing I'm allowed to do is write.

I can't touch my phone.

I can't get a snack.

I can't pee.

I can only write.

And since I'm focusing so hard on that 25 minutes, If I get to a part in a sentence like, oh, I don't know this character's name or I forget what color eyes they have, I just leave myself a note.

I just do like double asterisk, and I'm like, try to remember this guy's name for next time.

And I keep going.

So nothing slows me down.

It's not fun for me when I get to the revision part.

So I have to go back and fix all the notes, but that's how I get my first draft done in 25-minute increments.

So then, after the 25 minutes, then what do you do?

And how long is the break?

If it's going super well, I'll just set it again.

Or I will take a five-minute break and do like, I will

get more water or I'm trying to do like more moving.

Yeah.

So I'll do like some push-ups or some stretching and then I just jump right back in.

For nine hours?

Um

there's a lot of business stuff that takes up my time.

So now I would say I probably write for about three hours a day,

which I would love to do more, but I also don't want to drop the ball on everything else.

What is the pantser or planner?

Oh, pantser or plotter.

Plancer.

And so pantser means you have no idea where it's going.

You just sit down and the story takes you wherever.

Okay.

Plotter means you sit down and you have an outline and you know where the story's going.

You know what's going to happen.

I'm both.

Okay.

So I start with an outline and I always feel overly confident.

I'm like, oh, this is a real story.

Good job, me.

I finally figured it out.

Way to crack the code.

And then I start writing my book will be 50% longer because I didn't plan for all of the stuff that comes up while I'm writing.

So it's like, I don't know, there's something about being in the story where more of it opens up for you.

So that's a time where you would reset the clock completely.

Yeah.

Okay.

Makes sense.

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what do y'all do what do you do while she's writing publish books oh my gosh you're printing she's so busy

all the way behind the scenes okay and y'all do that in the same house yes we have um we built our house a couple years ago and it was a really fun process because we're like okay guys so we need a lot of guest bedrooms and we need two gigantic offices.

So we keep our offices on separate floors, which I think is good because otherwise he would be distracted by hearing me in my office either tearing up the keyboard or whining about how hard writing is.

But yeah, he's, oh my gosh, he's, he's so busy.

He has.

Way more meetings than I do.

He, you know, he works with my publishers.

He works with my agent.

He works with my brother.

He works with our accountant, all of the lawyers.

Like, it's, if I were in charge of this, I would probably never put another book out because i would be so busy dropping all of those balls no sir i have a whole team and i feel like i can't keep up

shout out to the teams out there because

you guys make our jobs so much easier um i have two assistants yep who are amazing um i could not function without them like it just but it makes a huge difference kind of cool you should you could do a whole romance novel novel with it where the characters are partners i know married or something yeah pulling inspiration right out of your own life i know how has your writing and your

process evolved since you published your very first book?

It's kind of interesting.

I think it's gotten harder because my standards have gotten higher.

I've learned so much since I wrote my first book and now it takes me that much longer to write one because

I'm so aware of character arcs and themes and layering those pieces in on top of a romance.

So it's, I used to get really down on myself for how long it would take me to write a book because my lovely friend Megan Quinn can write one in like three weeks.

And she writes long books, but she's, she's just so incredibly talented and focused.

And I think I'm relatively talented, but not focused.

It's hard, especially when you're doing it all in-house and like there's so many moving parts.

I could see why that would be tricky.

It's it's just it's a lot.

So I've learned learned to just, you know what, it takes me this long to write a book.

That's, you know, I'm not going to fight that.

Yeah.

I'm going to make sure.

I, and something that hasn't changed is I will not turn a book in until I'm happy with it.

Like I will not, if there's something that I feel is wrong with the story or a missing component, I won't turn it in.

Do your publishers get mad at you for that?

They're super nice to my face.

So they don't let me know how much that I stress out.

They're very, they're very willing.

They all want me to turn out the best book possible, too.

So it benefits all of us.

But Things We Never Got Over, that book was three months late.

And that was before I had a print deal.

So at least it was just our deadline that I completely murdered.

But it was worth it.

It was absolutely worth it.

Yeah, and three months isn't that late.

You know what I mean?

It's just

one quarter years.

You're like, no big deal.

Just three months.

What do you think

the hardest part of publishing was for you in the beginning compared with now?

Ooh,

the hardest part.

You know what?

I think it was growing a thick skin.

Do you read Goodreads reviews?

I do not anymore.

Yeah, I would imagine not.

I don't go near the site.

I think every single author that I've spoken to does not read reviews on Goodreads.

Now, I feel like because I get to know some authors on this podcast, like one, I never want to hurt anyone's feelings with my reviews.

So, if I don't love something, usually we'll give it a three because I don't want people to not read something simply because I don't like it.

Or just like making the bad part of the review funny.

Right.

Because, you know, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, it was, it was something that I, it made me look at how I was talking about other people's content and art that they've created.

Because I've been known to be like, that TV show ending, I'm so pissed off.

I will never rewatch it.

I'm, you know, I've, I,

I had feelings and I was, you know, I voiced them publicly.

And once I started getting some like

really mean one-star reviews, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm a human.

And the people who wrote that TV show are humans too.

And I was just like, oh, that thing that you spent years on and bled and sweated into.

Yeah, no, I hate it.

Oh, I mean, I was like, oh, crap, I can't.

So

I only talk about books that I found five-star.

I only talk about books that I think my readers will love.

And I never talk about, like, if I'm just reading something for fun, I never talk about what I'm reading just because I don't, you know, if somebody asks me, I don't want to say, I didn't love it.

I didn't, you know, like, it's, yeah, I'm, it made me, you know, being on the receiving end of people being like, you should never write another book again because you're awful.

I was like, people said that.

Oh my gosh, they've said terrible, terrible things.

I would imagine that would be the most challenging part.

It's a book, guys.

I think you can close it and go get something else you like.

It's fine, you know.

Don't feel like you have to finish something that you hate.

So speaking of that, do you DNF books?

I am a huge DNFer.

I can't bring myself to DNF.

Once I commit to this book, I don't care if it took me, if it takes me three days or three weeks, I have to finish it.

And Emily and I used to be the same.

Like, she was the same way.

And now she DNFs books, but I don't know if it's like a complex that I have about that's a how do you feel like if if you know you don't like the book and you finish it how do you feel afterwards are you like thank god that's over or are you still angry at how much time it stole from you there's only been two or three books that i was like i wish that i dnf'd yeah um

most of the time i'm like i'm just glad it's over i can move on but i'm like i feel like i hit the goal i it counts towards my reading you know what i mean so i i will say that i cannot dnf i can't i'm a big DNFer and sometimes I have to read just to get like

is it am I really reading this book that's you know this bad or whatever and so like I have to I don't know it's just a complex yeah um

I have a couple questions about books specifically if that's okay oh yes please um okay So what about 50 shares inspired?

50 Shades inspired you?

I just thought it was amazing that this woman wrote this story, self-published it, and then

it exploded.

It became this worldwide phenomenon.

And she

actually know it was self-published.

She had no idea.

Yeah.

And

it was originally fanfic for Twilight.

I did not know that.

I just think that is the most amazing thing.

So just, I mean, that's a beautiful way of how inspiration plays a role in these stories.

Like you can take something

and take the pieces that you loved from this, and then you can add your spin and you just create this whole new story.

Right.

And I just, I thought it was amazing.

We've been lucky enough to meet E.L.

James, Erica, a few times, and she's like the most delightful person on the planet.

She is so happy and so generous and so confident.

I just, I think,

what a great role model for authors, you know, especially young women who are trying to tell their stories.

I just, it was really cool to see that happen.

If she asked you to collab on a book, would you do it?

Yeah, and I am a terrible collaborator.

I would feel bad for her.

Every author I talk to says that.

What is it about you?

Like, I feel like I want to collab with an author on something.

And I just,

it's so intense.

For me personally, I, nobody sees my story.

Nobody.

Not even Mr.

Lucy?

Nope.

Nobody sees it until I have gone back through.

I did three drafts of this book or three read-throughs of this book.

Story of my life.

Mistakes were made, book two.

I just turned it in.

Okay.

So that's coming out next year.

But I did three drafts of that and nobody saw anything from it until I turned it into my editor.

So you couldn't do that with like a co-author because they would have to be able to have some sort of say.

Yeah, and they would be looking at my first draft, which is a flaming dumpster explosion.

And they would be like,

how did you get to where you are?

And I just, I can't, I can't open myself up to that.

And I also am extremely protective of my characters and my storylines.

So somebody would be like, you know, what would be better?

And I'd be like, no, I don't want to hear it.

And they would be like, wow, I have a lot of regrets collaborating with you.

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I know that you don't want to collab with anyone, but if you were to collab, who would you pick?

Dream Collab.

And it was completely seamless.

Ah,

okay.

I would pick

Nora Roberts.

Okay, I love, I love her books.

Um, her book, The Obsession, is one of my all-time favorite books.

So good.

There's romance, there's a serial killer, there's home renovation.

So, you wouldn't stick maybe in the romance genre, you would.

I love a little romantic suspense.

Okay.

I would dabble in that.

Yeah, I think also I would just want to sit in Rebecca Yaros's office while she writes just to be like, what are you thinking now?

Do you like her books?

Have you read some of her books?

I do.

I read the first one and I have the next two to read, but the first one I read while I was trying to write a book and I didn't write a word for like four days because I was so sucked into her book.

So I'm not allowed to read her stuff while I write.

There are some people because I'll listen to a book, read a book, physical copy, and then also one on my Kindle.

And people are like, Kayla, how do you do that?

Do you read and do you read more than one book at once?

Oh, yeah.

I usually have about three books going at one time.

Yeah.

And I'm a mood reader.

So, you know, I always have a nonfiction going.

I always have an audio book going.

That's usually romance.

Yep.

And then I have something on my Kindle.

But

the romance,

spicy scenes on audio, like that doesn't bother you at all?

I think I'm immune.

i don't think that i could listen to sex scenes on audio like um emily was what reading credence oh

she was listening to credence

and we pulled up to the school parking lot that's across the street so the kids were not around us yet just a disclaimer and i hear the audio through the car and i was like oh no girl you could not pay me to listen to this book um

i can't do smut on audio do you get to pick your audio readers like the narrators yeah and do you get to decide if it's a full cast or just one person that does all the voices?

We have generally stuck to two narrators just because it's easier for the narrators and easier for us to proof.

And I think the full cast ones are amazing to listen to.

But every time somebody tells me how much work it goes into

making that a cohesive product, I'm like, I want to jump off a bridge.

Oh, I would.

I recently,

I read Beautiful Ugly by Alice Feeney, and it was a great book.

I read the physical copy, but somebody else was listening to it in my book club, and they said that they had like every walkie-talkie that was like mentioned in the text.

It was like

an audio sound effect.

Yeah, like a radio play.

Yes.

So like all the little sound effects were in the full.

Like I would imagine that would be so hard because I know what goes into editing a podcast and just like the small sounds that have to be edited out or like color balancing that people don't think about and what all of that.

I cannot imagine for a full cast of characters on audio and also getting them to

you're not seeing them.

Right.

And so you have to come up with the emotion of the characters.

Yeah.

And I do, do you know if they have to read the book prior to getting in to recording?

Because how do you know what the tone of the character is?

Well, we've been working with the same two narrators for several books now, and just because I love them so much.

Lila Winters, Natalie Duke, she's done so many of my books, and I just, she gets me.

Okay.

She gets my humor and she adds a layer on top.

She, she performs it.

And so sometimes when I'm writing, I will be like, I will have somebody eating a ham sandwich and say a line just because I want to hear Natalie do this in the audio book.

She's, she's incredible.

We've worked with Sebastian York a lot too, and he's, he's such a professional and he has such a great voice.

But so like your brother or your other family members that read your books, they probably know how you want it narrated, which is nice when you build that relationship with people and every book i write has a bible so it is the character's name the age um the physical description like there's so many so many columns it's a spreadsheet like what kind of car they drive what pets they have and i have a column for the audio narrators like this is how i hear their voice in my head so it gives them a little bit of guidance on does this person have an accent is this person really young you know okay yeah so it's it's really cool but i'm for the most part i just sit back and let them do their thing because they they just get me and they know what they're doing.

Yeah, it's such it's such a joy to work with them.

Do you ever sit in on them?

No, you just let them do their thing.

Yeah, if you ever need a narrator, just let me know.

Okay, no, that would be so cool.

I'm not going to narrate the spicy scenes.

Um, count me out of those.

I'll put them all in the mail POV.

Perfect.

Could you, yeah, that would be great.

And you're from Pennsylvania.

Are any of your towns or

plot the settings of your books based out of where you're from?

Oh,

there's inspiration there for sure.

I wrote a book called Rock Bottom Girl, and I borrowed heavily from the town that I grew up in and my high school.

And so that was a lot of fun.

If you can't tell, I love not doing research on things.

So when the inspiration is that close to me, I really enjoy it.

But yeah,

they're just, I grew up in a small town.

I live in a small town.

There's just such a vibe to it that I love putting that on the page because it becomes its own character then.

It's very much like what I loved about Gilmore Girls wasn't Rory and Lorelei.

It was Stars Hollow and all of the secondary characters.

That was my favorite thing.

Do you have any characters in mind from any of your book, like ancillary characters that you would build a series from?

Yeah, I think there's always people in the books that kind of surprise me.

There was this hilarious bodyguard character named Jane in my book, The Price of Scandal.

I just had the best time writing her.

It was, she's just this ridiculous over-the-top character.

And I was always, I wrote like a little short story for her afterwards just because I had so much fun with her.

So there's always little characters hanging out.

And I have to be careful because readers will, they'll be like, that person's single.

We need, we need their book.

And do you do it?

Not everybody gets a book.

No, of course not everybody gets a book.

How do you name your characters?

I take a lot of inspiration from real life.

I keep a list on my phone.

And I actually have a list of like funny potential character names, like Shifarobe.

Like, can you imagine somebody?

And their nickname would be Shiffy.

You'd have to put like how to pronounce it too because I can't tell you how many books I've read that I cannot pronounce it.

So I just say whatever, and then I'll hear the audio.

Can you romanticize

what?

Well, as a reader, I think we experience that a lot.

But so you do the same thing.

Like you're having names that people probably wouldn't wouldn't be able to pronounce.

Oh my gosh.

And you know, I've been such a big reader my whole life.

There are so many words that I've only read and never heard out loud.

I remember I was in college talking to my advisor and I mispronounced the word constituent.

I said constituent and she was like, what?

It's like me.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I've never heard that word out loud before.

I pronounced indicted, indicted.

Well, why wouldn't you, right?

I don't know.

The universe said, why wouldn't you?

The universe is like, I intended it to be pronounced indicted.

I literally was reading like an article on the podcast, and my co-host did not correct me.

So it didn't get like edited or anything.

And so indicted has become the word that I can never do.

I don't think that makes sense.

I didn't know narwhals were real.

Well, they seem like they would be fantasy.

Yeah.

Why would a swimming sea unicorn be real?

Okay, thank you.

I feel so much better.

Today?

Just when she said that.

Yeah.

Well, you know, ligers are real too.

What?

ligers from um what was that movie napoleon dynamite oh yeah a liger and no ligers are real out of all your books do you have a favorite it's like picking a favorite child okay

i'm gonna be a jerk and say mistakes were made which is the one that i just turned in because i am in that beautiful window of time where i finished the book i love it i'm

So happy that the thunder loves it too.

And I haven't gotten any negative feedback on it.

So it's this perfect window of, I feel like I crossed the line at a marathon and I'm really proud of myself and really happy with what I've accomplished.

So that is the perfect moment.

What is the process then?

When you hand in a manuscript, did they, does your publishers or Mr.

Lucy send it out to like ARC readers?

For

arc readers don't get it.

I don't, reader readers don't get to see it for a long time.

We go through a pretty extensive editing phase.

My

print editor will get it.

My UK editor will get it at the same time.

And they coordinate on their edits and developmental story stuff.

And then we have editors on our team that will get it and read it.

It goes through a sensitivity read.

And then there's like line edits, copy edits, proofreading.

It's by the time the book goes to the printer, I'm so sick of seeing the pages.

I'm like, I don't know where commas go.

I and I don't care.

Please, someone figure it out.

Fix them and leave me out of it.

If you could pick any of your books to be a series on TV or a movie, what would it be?

Well, I'm so glad you asked because the Knock Them Out series has been optioned for a TV series with Amazon MGM Studios, and I'm super excited about that.

And there might be a couple other projects in the works that I can't talk about yet.

So I guess I can't tell you.

But there, yeah, I'm, I'm really excited.

And how do you, how are you handling, and I say this to every author when we talk about this part of it.

Colleen Huber was the first person to tell me that the manuscript for a book, the reason why you have to cut so many things out for a TV or a show or a movie is because you're, you're taking a typically 300-page book and then you have to write a 150-page screenplay or screenwrite.

And so for you, how has that process has it?

Have you been like, okay, I can see this part, you know, maybe cut out or whatever?

I'm not the script writer, so I'm really enjoying it.

So, is there, are there parts that you're like, I don't want you to cut this out?

Yeah, they've, they've definitely asked certain things like, you know, what are the most important components?

You know, what do, what do you need in here for your readers?

And, you know, I mean, one of the things that I was like

1000%

clear on was no cheating.

Like, they don't cheat in the books.

I don't, you know, don't

add that.

Please, no.

We have, we have lots of conflict and lots of, lots of ways to

keep viewers entertained.

So, no cheating.

And also, I was like, you know, the humor is really important to me.

And they're like, yeah, that's not going anywhere.

Good, good, that's good.

So, yeah, I don't, I don't know, like,

I don't know how somebody would take a book and then turn it into

a script for a movie or

season one of a TV show.

Like I'm just really enjoying watching the process unfold with experts.

Yeah, yeah.

You're like, I'll let you do what you do.

Yeah, it's it's so because it's such a different animal.

And like, you know, the book, it's so

surreal.

It's all happening inside your head.

Everything in that book is designed to make you visualize something, to make you see it and feel it.

But obviously TV and movie, you're already seeing it.

So everything has to be adapted so you can deliver the same feelings through a different medium.

And I'm just really excited to see how it all plays out.

So that's everybody's sign to read the Knock Them Out series before it comes to the big screen.

I would definitely recommend that.

And then read it after.

And yeah, oh, that's a good idea to see how your perspective has changed.

And share with your friends.

You're like, tag everybody, send it to your mom.

Do it in front of your boss.

I love it.

Before we close out, where can people find you on social media and where can people buy your books?

I am on Instagram at scorelucy.

I'm on Facebook

and I have a website that's lucyscore.com.

My books are available in bookstores everywhere.

You can hit up a big retailer or your favorite indie store

and also on Amazon.

Thank you so much for joining us for Barely Famous.

Thanks for having me.

Hi, I'm Adam Rappon and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent-free in my head for years.

From dumb decisions to awkward moments, I probably should have kept to myself, nothing's off limits.

Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid-flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that.

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