Leah Van Dale: Speaking Her Truth

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Welcome to the shit show.

Things are going to get weird.

It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry.

And you're listening to Barely Famous. Thank you.
so hey everyone welcome back to another episode of Barely Famous Podcast. Today we have Leah Van Dale.
She's formerly known as Carmella as part of the WWE. It all started when Leah was a dancer and cheerleader for the NFL and the NBA.
And then she took the leap into the WWE, which is amazing. Leah's dad was a former pro wrestler who worked for the WWE.
And so it's not really a surprise that she made this leap. I absolutely loved her character, Carmella.
And she was with the WWE for 12 years. And we've been seeing all of your questions, all of your comments.
And today we're going to get some insight from Leah herself about why her contract ended so abrupt. At some point,

she decided she wanted to enter motherhood. Unfortunately, that meant lots of changes

in other aspects of her life and deciding whether she was going to continue to be a WWE wrestler or

not, or maybe it wasn't even her decision. So let's get into it with Leah Van Dale.
Welcome back to another episode of Barely Famous Podcast. Today, we have Leah Van Dale, formerly known as carmella or mella welcome to barely famous

you it with Leah Van Dale. Welcome back to another episode of Barely Famous Podcast.
Today we have Leah Van Dale, formerly known as Carmella or Mella. Welcome to Barely Famous.
Hello, thank you for having me. I am a little bit nervous about this because this is the first time you're ever doing something like this.
Yes, it is. And people who are familiar with WWE know you as Carmella.
Yes. So you have been out of WWE for almost two years.
Yes. But not by choice.
No. So let's talk about it.
Sure. And it started with you.
First of all, let me backtrack. You were in the WWE for 12 years.
12 years, yes. I signed in 2013, which is wild.
And we're in 2012. That's 12 years is a long time.
Yes, I was a baby. I just was 25, I think, when I first signed signed, it's so crazy.
But first you were a cheerleader and a dancer. Yes.
But how do you make the leap from cheering and dancing to WWE? Such a great question because I don't know. I never in my life imagine I would end up in WWE as a dancer my whole life.
I cheered in the NFL and then the NBA and then it just kind of snowballed. My dad was a wrestler in the early nineties.
So was around it I grew up watching it but I never thought I would do it and then this opportunity came out an agent for dance and this opportunity came like to have a tryout with WWE and I was like whatever let's give it a shot yeah yeah and I tried out and I made it and then the rest is just kind of history and you've won so many titles over the years and become a fan favorite, truly.

I mean, it's crazy. I never, I thought like, I mean, I never had any experience.
I didn't wrestle before I got to WWE. And I feel like so blessed that in just a short period of time, I made it to the top.
I became champion. I made history and got to be a part of this huge women's evolution.
And it was such a pivotal time for women in WWE. And I'm so grateful that I got to be a part of that.
No, truly, because I think women really changed

the dynamic in the entire WWE industry, and I think that's really cool that you got to be a part of that. It's really cool.
It got to the point where it was no longer a big deal that the women were doing all of these things. It was just the norm.
Part of it. And that's what we wanted, and it's just such an awesome, awesome feeling.
Things start to take a turn about 10 years into the contract or 10 years into the franchise.

Sure.

Well, not necessarily a turn.

I just got pregnant.

Okay.

And not like a turn.

It was like a great, great experience.

I mean, I was so excited to, I always wanted to be a mom.

Yeah.

And I got pregnant and yeah, I was just so excited. Everything was going according to plan.
And then I had my baby. And I mean, literally the best thing that ever happened to me in my entire life.
I'm still in love with this little boy. And unfortunately, when I had my son, I got an injury when I was giving birth.
I was in labor for like, well, it year. I went into the hospital on a Monday night, and I didn't have him until Wednesday afternoon.
And I was pushing for like three hours. And having my legs up and my nerve behind my knee was compressed for so long that I got what's called deep fibular nerve damage.
So I couldn't really walk. The muscles that control the top of my were so damaged.
I couldn't walk for like weeks after I had my son. So it was, it was scary.
No, that's terrifying. So, but how, how did the WWE react to you getting pregnant in the first place? They were fine, supportive.
I mean, so many women, I mean, not so many women, but a handful of women, um, have gotten pregnant while under contract. And basically, they freeze your contract while you're pregnant, they pay you, which is so incredible.
Like they don't have to pay you when you're pregnant. And they paid me.
And they've paid every woman that's been pregnant before under contract. And I'm so grateful for that.
I will say I did offer to work when I was pregnant. I was like, please, like, I know I can't wrestle, but let me let me go on the road.
I'll do backstage interviews. I'll do kickoff shows.
I'll do panels. Like, let me contribute.
Cause I didn't want them to think like I'm just cool with sitting at home and getting paid and not working. Right.
Yeah. So, but they were like, no, like to stay at home, it's fine.
So I was like, fine. Okay.
Um, so I did, I stayed at home and yeah, they were really cool about it. Um, and then usually what's happened in the past with women who've been pregnant under contract, they have their baby, they recover.
I mean, every, as you know, every postpartum journey is so different. And I don't want to speak on anyone else's recovery.
Mine was obviously a lot more difficult because of the nerve damage with my foot. But I was like, I let them know.
As soon as like, I think the day that I had my son, I told the head of medical, by the way, I just want to let you know, this is what happened. This is what's going on.
And I think for women, like women's health in general is just so under, I don't know the word, like overlooked, like people don't talk about these things. And so when I had the nerve damage, they were just like, it'll just resolve in like four to six weeks.
It'll be fine. So then it's like, your doctor said that? Yes.
It. It'll be fine.
It'll just take a little bit of time. Like, okay.
Now like months and months are going by and it's not getting better. And so then I'm going for all these tests, senior specialists.
And I've been in touch with WWE the entire way, like telling them what was going on and everything like that. And then, I mean, I guess fast forward until a few weeks ago.
And then I got a call saying that my contract was up in 10 days. And basically what happened was, usually when you're injured, your contract is like on a pause.
Okay. So they take the, however long that the contract is paused, whether it's during pregnancy, postpartum, or just a regular old injury that you get in the ring, your contract is paused for a certain amount of time.
And then when you go back to work, however long it was paused for, they just kind of tack on to the end of your contract. Okay.
Fair enough. Right.
And that's just kind of the impression that I was under. And then, um, come to find out the way it worked out was my contract was paused for seven weeks after I had my son and then reinstated.
So basically seven weeks postpartum, my contracts reinstated and I didn't know, like nobody told me that I only had seven weeks off after my son and that they were going to reinstate it. Um, and then, yeah, I guess fast forward into it.
Cause I basically had a year left on my contract when I got pregnant. So then when it was reinstated January 1st, 2024 is when they decided for whatever reason, they just like picked that date and that's the date that it got reinstated.
So then January to the following February, which is where we're at now, it's expired. And that was that.
So you let the WWE know that you were pregnant and they were fine. They were supportive.
You go to have your son and You got seven weeks off, but I didn't know that at the time Nobody said and nobody said that so basically when I got pregnant they sent me a letter and they said that like They gave me an X amount of days off on my contract for being pregnant and then seven weeks postpartum. So basically They anticipated how long it would take me to recover postpartum.
And I'm assuming they give this number to all the women who get pregnant, right? But they said in this letter, like no matter what, when you return to wrestling, these dates will all change. So basically it's just kind of like a placeholder date and number and period of time that you have off.
But when you return to wrestle, that's the date that we're actually going to take. And that contract would be frozen for that amount of time that you were out.
Okay. So like, say I was out for 300 days and they're like, okay, we're going to freeze your contract for 300 days.
Um, or we're going to freeze your contract for whatever amount of time. But I was out for 300 days.
They would, once I came back, they would add that 300 days back onto my contract. If that makes sense.
No, that makes perfect sense. Um, and so just the impression I was under because that's how it's worked for other women in the past.
And that's how it's worked if you're injured or anything. Um, and again, every woman is so different.
Like some girls have been out for six months postpartum and some girls have been out for 14 months, postpartum, five months, eight months. It's just, of course, everyone's recovery is different.
Um, so it's like they can put an exact timeline on when you're going to return. Um, but I just was like completely shocked that they had only given me seven weeks and then reinstated my contract, but didn't tell you when they didn't tell me.
Yeah. So at the point that you hit the seven week mark postpartum, no one said, Hey, we're going to reinstate your contract.
So you didn't go back to work. I didn't go back to work.
I also was completely, I mean, you can barely ride a bike seven weeks postpartum. Oh no.
You know what I mean? Nevermind. Like even if I was completely healthy and didn't have the nerve damage in my foot, there's no way I was returning seven weeks postpartum.
I mean, you get cleared to work out and do regular things at six weeks. If you're lucky.
If you're lucky. And that's like light working out.
So at the point that they reinstated your contract did you did they know that you had the diagnosis that you had with the nerve damage okay so they still brought you they reinstated it knowing that you had nerve damage okay and that's why i was also confused because in the letter i was sent it said like these dates and everything will change based off of your like medical condition so like i have a medical condition and like i I'm assuming they put that in there for any pregnant woman because you just don't know what'll happen. Right.
Um, so I just was, I was completely shocked. Like I had no idea.
And then I got a phone call a few weeks ago just saying like, Hey, we just want to let you know your contracts up in 12 days and we're not renewing it. And I was like, first of of all my husband and I were walking into a Nikki Glaser comedy show like I'm like we're in line to get a beer and we're like so excited to go watch the stand up like the last thing on my mind is thinking about getting a call about my job and I just was I was completely blindsided and I was just like wait a minute what like I thought my contract was frozen because I'm injured I had no idea because usually when you're injured your contracts frozen right and it just it it was it hurt I get really hurt I was really upset and disappointed because I just felt like they knew about my injury and I also was doing everything

in my power to heal and get better that same day that I go to phone call I was at my spine specialist and my neurologist getting different tests and results and chatting about options and doing everything I can to I mean my foot is getting better it's just not 100% yet so I just was like why am I going through all this trouble to try to get better and try to get back to the ring if that wasn't the ultimate goal at the end?

And the kicker is I actually offered to go back to work last summer.

Well, you tried to work while you were pregnant.

Exactly.

You know, I just feel like it would be so much of a different story right now if they valued how hard you were willing to work and what you were willing to do for the company.

Exactly.

I called them. I was maybe seven or eight months postpartum and I reached out to like the head of the head of everything.
And I was like, Hey, I don't know. I wasn't even sure if he was aware that I had nerve damage, but I kind of laid everything out for him.
And I was like, I can't wrestle, but I'd love to contribute anyway. Ken, here's my pitch.
I had an idea of working with this tag team and being a manager. Carmela is like a huge personality and like, I love microphone, so let me help another team out.
In the meantime, even though I can't wrestle, but let me just contribute. He loved the idea.
He put me in touch with the head of creative and let's get it going. I can't wait to see you is what he told me literally point blank.
I was like, okay, cool. Then I was in touch with creative they got medical

clearance from my doctor like my personal doctor saying yes she can

travel she just can't Russell well and then like radio silence I haven't heard

from anyone that was like the end of July I was in the middle of collaborating

with them on this and then I haven't heard anything from anyone so everyone

just ghosted ghosted ghosted completely ghosted and it just it it hurts because

I feel like I have always been a company girl I've always like done whatever it

is ghosted completely ghosted and it just it it hurts because I feel like I have always been a company girl I've always like done whatever it is they wanted me to do I feel like I was representing the company in a professional way and do what's asked of me I never like gone off script or done anything where I was like oh shoot maybe I shouldn't have done that like I always do everything that's asked of me and it just feels like a shitty way to end a 12-year career with the company like that this is how it ended that's a long time there are people who don't stay with companies for 12 years especially in the entertainment industry because they feel like they're the turnover and you want the next best thing but you've been the next best thing for the all 12 years do you know what i mean it just it sucks i feel like is it because i'm a woman because I had a baby? And well, it is because I had a baby, like point blank. I, when I even spoke with, cause like they wouldn't give me any answers on the phone either.
I was like, well, why? Like what, what's happening? They're like, uh, this is just what we're going with right now. I'm like, they don't even think they said that he was just like, I'll put you in touch with legal.
And I'm like legal. Like, I don't, I just want to know like why this is happening.
Like this doesn't feel feel right. You're a human being.
You want real answers from a real person, not this robotic, legal. And I get it.
Everything is a liability, but also to be treated like a human being and a woman and someone who's dedicated 12 years of your life to this company. All right.
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So when you're walking into the comedy show and you look at your husband and you are telling him about the call or you have it on speakerphone, what, how does he react? Because he's still with the WWE. And that's also like what bothers me.
It doesn't bother me to stay with the company. Like I'm so glad he has a job.
I'm so glad he's still there. Right.
But he still has a job. We had a kid and he has a job, but I don't like like how is that fair well you know what I mean it's it's wild I'm thinking of you know being a business owner myself if one of my girls got pregnant and had an injury right uh related to the pregnancy or not sure if they can't do the role that they were in before they got the injury I'm going to find a place for them within the company that they can do.
Right. Because I'm a girl's girl and I recognize that at the end of the day, like you're not just a number, you're not replaceable.
You know what I'm saying? Like, of course I can have someone else build a role, but it's not the same. Right.
And I just feel like with your fan base and everything that you've brought, of course that's so hurtful. It's so hurtful.
And the fact that I went above and beyond and tried to go back. So like, I was like, Oh, I'm fine with, I'll let me just sit at home and collect my paycheck and screw you guys.
Like I tried to go back. And for example, my husband, when years ago he had gotten several concussions, he had to retire.
They let him figure out another path. They let him try commentary and he completely excelled at that.
He's incredible. He's like one of, if not the best commentator WWE has.
He's incredible. There's another guy a couple years ago, Big E, he's a friend of mine.
He broke his neck, unfortunately, in the ring, but he was given the opportunity to have another, another avenue to succeed. Yeah.
Why, why wasn't I afforded that same opportunity? It's like, that's what I keep asking myself. Cause I feel like I have a lot to offer.
I have a fan base. I represent the company.
Well, why wasn't I given an opportunity somewhere else when I've showed interest and shown that I wanted to contribute in any way that I could, and they didn't give me that opportunity. And I just, is it because I'm a woman and I don't want to keep saying these things, but I just feel like it is 2025, but we still have a long way to go with equality.
I think, I mean, the women there are extremely underpaid compared to the men. And that's just a fact.
Everyone there knows it. The women working there know it.
And they maybe can't say it because they're working. So let me say it.
I'm going to say it and speak up for them because it's important. And there's just, there's some work to do.
I feel like for your, for those listening who are not familiar with WWE, there is a, you have, you have to be able to act right. Like there's storylines and there's all kinds of things like that.
When you, I don't want to say left cause you didn't leave when your contract was frozen and you had your son What was the storyline that you had just like ended on? Yeah, I was in um, so basically it was right around the same time Two years ago was elimination chamber Um, and I I mean I killed it in that match I was like super annoying like carmela is so annoying and I was just like in that match like playing games with everyone and just being annoying and obnoxious. And actually I was supposed to, I was factored into WrestleMania that year.
I was supposed to be in a tag team with Chelsea Green. We were going in to, it was like, I think like a four way.
And she was supposed to be my tag team partner or I was supposed to be her tag team partner. And then unfortunately, or not unfortunately, circumstances changed and I got pregnant and I wasn't able to participate.
But I was supposed to be in WrestleMania that year. So.
I was in all the programs and I felt bad. The girl that replaced me, it was like my picture in all the programs.
Aw. Not her.
I mean, it happens. Sure.
And you have to, as a company, WWE needed to be able to pivot when they needed to pivot. Exactly.
And so that part is what it is. So was any of your storyline, I can't remember because I do watch it with my kids sometimes but was is your husband your husband in WWE sometimes yeah I mean like they acknowledge it for sure and um leading up to our wedding we had like a big storyline where it was like I was in a tag team I was actually tag team champion with um Zelina Vega and like our entire storyline was like me just worrying so much about our wedding and not worrying about Wrestlemania and like my husband like making out on tv and like it was just so over the top and ridiculous but it was fun but so I say all that to say that you could have done something with your husband while you couldn't be in the wrestling ring and so there are definitely so many ideas that you could have done especially with both of you guys being such a name.
And he was doing commentary for, he's doing it for NXT now, right? Yes. Okay.
So originally doing it for WWE. And then, I mean, even now, like I could have done backstage interview.
Like it doesn't even mean to be about me. Let me just contribute.
Cause like you're saying when you're paying somebody and they're not able to do their job, like, okay, let's find something else. And it just would have been like, if there was some communication, like, hey, we know you're injured, you can't wrestle right now.
Like, why don't you come back in a few months? Or like, when you feel better, like, let's reopen or revisit the conversation. But like, I wasn't even given a conversation.
It was just like, boom, we're not renewing your contract. And like, you have 10 days or 12 days to like, figure out how to make money and like my family I was just like I was so shocked that I didn't even really know what was happening and again we're at this comedy show we're like in the concessions and I'm like on the side just trying to like what is happening what like my con you're not I was so confused by all of it I just was it was the last thing on my mind that something like that would happen.
And I was just like, how is this happening? Like I thought my contract was frozen because I can't wrestle. Like I'm not able to wrestle.
And basically what came back to with legal was like at any point W can change their mind. So they can decide to extend your contract based off of when you're injured or they can not extend it.
And they, in my case, for whatever reason, decided not to extend it. I don't know why there's no rhyme or reason.
And it just is what it is. How does that change the dynamic between you and your husband now? Because he is still part of WWE NXT.
Yeah. I mean, it doesn't change it at all.
Like I, and listen, I'm not sitting here. I don't want to like be speaking poorly about WWE.
Like I had such a great experience there. I loved working there.
It was 12 years of my life. I met my best friends.
I met my husband there. Like I traveled the world and created the best fan base and the crew, everyone, like everyone top to bottom.
I just loved working there. And that That doesn't change like my husband loves this business.
He loves wrestling

Like this is what he always wanted to do and he's living his dream and I fully support that and it doesn't change

It at all like we still talk about it

We still talk about storylines or whatever's happening on TV and my girlfriends like Natty and

Bailey they're like my two best friends

I talked to them every day and I'm They're like my two best friends. I talk to them every

day and I'm not going to like not support them or you know what I mean? I feel like,

you know, I just, that was my life for so long and now it's not, but it doesn't change anything.

Does it feel bittersweet though, that all of your people are still there?

It does. But I also feel like this is the path that I'm meant to be on right now.
I feel like I'm a huge believer in everything happening for a reason. Right.
So if this wasn't happening right now, it's going to lead me to a different path. And as much as I wanted to prove not only to myself, to my son, to my coworkers, to my female fan base, you can have a baby and still kick ass and still go back to work.
Like that's what I really wanted to do. And unfortunately I'm not able to do that anymore, but I'm going to pivot.
And like, this is the next chapter of my life and whatever's meant to happen will happen. And I feel like something amazing is going to come from this.
I don't know what it is right now. It's all still so fresh, but I'm excited.
I'm excited to see what's next for Leah. Like for so long, it's like,

oh, Carmela and it's like, no, I can now fully be Leah and like do what I want to do. And

I don't know what that is. It's like, what do I like to do? I don't know.

Like, this is all I did for so long, but I think it's time. It's like time to figure out what's

next. Well, you could definitely write a book.
I could write a book. You also have Snatch.

Snatch. Let's talk about it.
So I did get some information on it. I pulled up the website,

We're going to link it in the description. What inspired Snatch and what is Snatch? So Snatch is a platform that I created for women.
I had a miscarriage, two miscarriages actually, before I got pregnant with my son. And I didn't know anyone that had a miscarriage.
And I was like, what is happening? Like, why is this happening to me? I had an ectopic pregnancy, which is so dangerous. For those who don't know, it's like when the baby is like growing in your tulip tube and it can like burst, a lot of women bleed to death and die when this happens.
So I decided to talk about it because I felt like if it was happening to me, there was like such, I felt such shame. And I was alone during this time.
And I was like, I'm just going to share this and let other women know, like, hey, if this is happening to you, you're not alone. You didn't do anything wrong.
And so when I did that, I just felt like it opened the floodgates for this conversation. So like my girlfriends who had miscarriages, had never even told anyone, they're like, oh, my God, you're making me feel better about the one I had.
And I'm like, oh my God, like why wouldn't you talk about this? You know, like you shouldn't feel like ashamed. Right.
So then when I got pregnant with my son, I was like, okay, there's something here. Like we need to like get these conversations going.
And that's why I created Snatch, which is like the most ridiculous name. And people are like, do you know what that means? I'm like, obviously I know what Snatch what snatch means right but like that's the whole point to get people talking and to be like bold in your face let's talk about it talk let's have the conversations that you know women aren't having like let's i'm going to try to facilitate that and so it's basically like a private forum where women can go and chat with each other and ask questions i have a lot of guest speakers and experts on different topics, whether it's like fertility and IVF or postpartum depression, or just like topics that you don't, I feel like women are so uninformed on, um, until you become a mom, as I'm sure you know, you don't, it's like, you don't know what you don't know.
And then when it's happened, you're like, Oh my God, how come nobody told me about this? Or why didn't I know about that? Yeah. And so that's what snatch is all about.
Well, I'm glad that you did that because I've had four losses and, um, I, when I opened the website and I saw it, it was like, wow, this is amazing. And I think that more people should know about it.
And I, to your point, I mean, I didn't really talk about my miscarriages or, you know, anything like that, because what do you, if someone else hasn't related, how can they you? When you're talking to other women who have experienced the same thing, you feel a different sort of connection and comfort. And so I think that's really great.
Were the women in WWE supportive? Yes, very, very supportive. And it's crazy that the community it's created, and that's just more than anything what I wanted to do is create a community.
and like to this yesterday one of this girl that I from where I grew up messaged me because she thinks she's having an ectopic pregnancy and she's like tell me about this or how did it and I'm like oh my god like thank god you're at least like reaching out to me because what if I never created this what if you didn't know about this like how would you even know to ask questions or go to your doctor and find out what's going on? So I just think it's so important to have these conversations as women. No, it's, it totally is.
And I'm sure Corey is, that's not his real name. Matt.
Can I say his, you can say Matt. Okay.
I don't know what to, I know it's so confusing. I think I, who told me, there's like a name for like having to stay in character.
What is it called? Kayfabe. Kayfabe.
I want to make sure I don't break anyone's characters. No, and you're not.
Okay. This is like, this is real life.
Okay. So, and what was Matt's reaction to you starting snatch? He's so supportive of it.
I mean, he is, I'm going to go off about him, but he's just incredible. Like even when all of this stuff stuff went down a couple weeks ago, he was sitting, because I was sitting there, like, doubting myself.
Like, what if this is the end of my career? Like, what am I doing with my life? What do I have to offer? And he was, like, shaking me. He's like, babe, what do you mean? Like, this is not the end-all be-all.
Like, you have so much to offer. And, like, it just, I'm so grateful for him to, in times like that, just to, he's so supportive and he's so supportive with snatch and he he's just he's the best I'm gonna cry oh so so much I'm so grateful for him unfortunately winter is still here that means harsh temps dry indoor heating and more and personally I've struggled with frizzy hair and thinning hair I don't know know what the heck is going on, but I'm going to be saved by pros.

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I did not realize this happened a couple of weeks ago. Yeah.
Yeah. I thought this was like last year and you've been like, so this is fresh, fresh.
This is so fresh. Yeah.
I haven't even been out of my contract for, it's been a week now. So it's, it's all very fresh.
It's crazy. And do you think they, they could change their mind? Right.
But I, why would you want to be somewhere that doesn't want want you it's like when you're in a relationship and someone's trying to break up with you and you're like no don't leave me like i promise like it's like no like you're not wanted in that relationship anymore see you later like that's not for me and i truly feel like that door is closed i'm not saying forever it's not like carmella may never make another appearance like i i think that would would be great to eventually put my Jordans back on and moonwalk back out there and be in front of the fans like I think someday it will but right now it's just not for me right now it's like universe's way of telling me there's something else for you and I'm excited for that maybe it's with snatch maybe're going to turn that into just like a worldwide making, you know, making people aware of it. Yeah.
Right. And that's kind of why I wanted to have this conversation today.
I feel like I've been so transparent about my journey with my miscarriages and my pregnancy and my postpartum journey. It's like, I want to be open and honest about this.
And again, I'm not sitting here trying to disparage WWE, but I want to be real and honest because it's 2025 and we still have a long way to go for women and moms and pregnancy

and health and all of it.

I feel like this conversation needs to be had because I mean, shit, I, there's, I had

a baby and now I'm not working anymore.

Right.

And that sucks.

Right.

That's just the reality of the situation. Yeah.
I feel like I'm being punished because I had a baby and I wouldn't change a damn thing. I'm obsessed with myself.
Like this is my life. And so I would do it a million times over again, but it's just the reality of the situation.
If you could suggest improvements, where do you think they would be specifically for, you know, the and what happened to you through this throughout this whole process the lack of communication feeling like this is an attack on your womanhood your motherhood you know and what you what value you bring so where where would you suggest the improvements like where do we start with change I think communication for sure there needs be more communication. And there needs to be something that's put in place for moms in this workspace.
And what that looks like, I don't know. But I feel like as an athlete, we should be able to have children and still have a career.
It should be possible. And there are other women who have done it in WWE.
There's been a few, not a lot, but I think me sharing this, hopefully for any other woman who's in that locker room right now and contemplating having a baby, but still wants their career, just got to be careful because you just don't know. What do you say to the women who are thinking about it? Because at this point I would look at this, if I was in the WWE, if I was in, in the company and I, and I saw this happen to you, I would have to think twice about whether or not I could start my motherhood journey.
Yeah. And I would agree.
And that's too bad. And again, there are other women who have had babies and gone back.
Um, but they also didn't get injured. And I did get injured childbirth and that is unfortunate, but it is the reality and it happens.
And I just feel like people don't talk about, again, they don't talk about these things. Like we don't realize you can get hurt giving birth and while knock on wood, it's, I'm going to be okay and I'm recovering.
Um, it's still very real and it's what happened. Um, and that's again I feel, like, hurt that there's no other avenue for me, no other path.

Like, no, we only want you as a wrestler, and you count me as a wrestler, so you're no good to us, you know?

Yeah, which feels really unfair.

Yeah, it does.

Just as a human being, it's like you feel helpless.

Yeah.

When you realized that something was very wrong, can you walk us through the journey of realizing that something was wrong with the nerves and, and after birth? Yeah. So I had, I got an epidural.
I was in labor for so long. I was like, give me this damn epidural.
And after I had my son, I was like this weird, like tingling, numbing feeling in my right leg and foot. And they're like, Oh, it's probably just from the epidural.
It's going to wear off. And then I got up cause you have to go to the bathroom after you have your, and I'm like, couldn't, I like fell over.
I couldn't, and I was like, Oh my God, this is not okay. Um, and then a few days go by and then I'm getting discharged from the hospital and they said, okay, just, um, so I said, Hey, listen, like my leg doesn't feel normal.
I still, I can barely walk to the bathroom and they're like, just give it a, like I said, a few weeks and then weeks

went by and nothing. And it got to the point where I was at my six week checkup and it still wasn't

better. They're like, okay, we'll give it eight to 10 weeks.
And I'm just like, this feels weird.

It just felt off. Like this isn't right.
Um, and now I'm at like almost three months and I'm going to see the chiropractor, my acupuncturist. I'm, like, trying to do whatever I can in the meantime.
And finally, I had to go to my primary care and not my OB. I was like, I don't know what's going on.
So she sent me to get an MRI. And then basically, because of years of wrestling, I have, like, crazy, like, slip discs and things in my back.
So they just attributed that to to my foot so then they were treating my foot as though it was coming from my back but that would also be where the epidural goes right it wasn't gives like the l4 l5 okay and I don't even know where the epidural like and then of course anesthesiologist they were they were like not taking my, like, no, no, no, it was not us.

And I was like, okay.

It was just like, I kept getting the runaround from everyone.

And like the way they were treating my nerve damage in my leg was as if it was coming from

my back.

So then we're going through, I was going through physical therapy for like months and it wasn't

getting better.

And then finally they sent me to a spine specialist and the spine specialist was like, no, that's

not coming from your back.

That's coming from your leg. So it was just like this huge runaround where I just feel like everyone was giving me like pointing the finger at somebody else and finally when I saw the spine specialist and again I didn't get to see her till September I had my son in November I didn't get to see her till the following September because of the runaround and then I wanted to see someone good so then of course it takes months to get in.
And finally, when she sent me for an MRI and realized like it's not from my back, it's coming. I had to get an EMG, all this nerve testing.
And coming to find out it was from the back of my knee from pushing. So is that a lawsuit to the hospital then? No.
It's just it happens. You're better than me.
Everybody getting sued. If it was me, so you're better than me.
I just feel like the end of the day, like, I just don't want to deal with all of the bullshit. I just want to get better.
You're like, I want to go back to work and get better. Yes, that's it.
I just wanted to get better and having a son and like, I'm an athlete, like to not be able to like run and work out the way I want to and like jump, like I can get by everyday life, normal life. Fine.
It's not a big deal. I'm wearing boots with heels.
It's okay. But like to get back into like full, like what I've always done, it's, I can't right now.
And that sucks. It's, it's unfortunate.
So what do you tell you're, you have a blended family with Matt. What do you tell the kids? Like, do you just say, can't, can't run around with you guys today? Can't, I mean, my, like I said, my everyday life is normal.
It's just like to get back into like that huge, like that hardcore, like training regimen and like doing things the way I would like to do them. I just can't.
Um, but I can play with the kids and dance and do stupid, silly talks and things like that. Um, but it's just like getting back into like that crazy training that I would love to be able to do.
I just can't do that right now. And that is necessary for WWE.
What does that look like? What is like a regimen for someone to get your cardio up? Like there's nothing that can prepare you for cardio and the wrestling ring like you can sprint you can do like condition like nothing prepares you other than getting in that ring and like running the ropes and like there's so many different conditioning drills that you would do I'd have to be down there for at least like I say down there we have a training facility in Orlando okay so I would have to be there for like well over a month like really getting Mike like and you can be aesthetically look great but cardio wise you have to get it up so it's more for like actually yeah to be able to keep up not because they want you to look a certain way sure I'm sure they also want you to look a certain way you have to like well within like I mean Carmela she's like a bad bitch yes I have to like so it's her honey it's a bad her. So it's her.
So it's her. So it's her.
So it's her. Leah is a bad bitch too.
Leah is too. So.
Yes. Thank you.
We actually saw, we went to Disney in October. We saw, don't catch me lying on his name.
Solo Sakoa. Oh yes.
Yep. Freaking out.
The kids were freaking out. And I was like, shh, shh, shh, shh.
He was right in Orlando though. No, he was really sweet.
He was, he was great. But so, so you, you can't do like the hardcore endurance stuff.
But so then how do you keep up with just regular keeping Leah well on a day-to-day basis now? Yeah, I feel like I try to do Pilates. That's kind of like my go-to.
It makes me feel good. It makes me feel strong.
And I mean, running after a 15-month-old, that'll keep you in shape. I think we have kids that are same age.
Do we? Well, my twins are 16 months. Oh, okay.
So that right around the same time. Oh my gosh, 16 months.
Twins, girl. Twins are, they're crazy.
Although they're, my twins are not walking yet. So I mean, one of them is sort of walking.
So I'm not, but then I have, I had Rio who was 11 months older. So they're like Irish triplets.
Oh, okay. So I keep up with him.
I don't think that I could ever keep up with a WWE workout plan, regimen, any of that. So kudos to you.
So will you still go support any of the shows? Like, well, I don't know. I mean, never say never.
I feel like, again, I want to support my husband, support my friends. And again, never say never.
What would you say to any of your kids that wanted to join WWE or NXT or any of the, Oh my goodness. I would say make sure that you have thick skin if that's what you want to do, because it's, it's a lot and you're going to take a lot of crap and being in the public eye.
I know even sitting here right now, people are going to have something to say about this. And I'm just speaking my truth, but people are going to be having something to say.
And that's just the nature of that business, entertainment in general. You're not going to make everyone happy.
And you've got to make sure you really love it because you're going to get a lot of shit. Did people give you shit about getting pregnant while you're under contract? Yeah, of course.
Oh, look at her just sitting at home, getting pregnant, like staying pregnant and making money. And it's like, listen, I'm a woman.
I want to have children and I would like to also have a career. And I think that's fair.
And I'm now 37.

At the time, I was 35.

Time wasn't on my side.

I didn't want to wait until my contract was up again.

I had trouble getting pregnant in the first place.

So I didn't want to risk not being able to wait until my contract's up when I'm 37 and then try.

I was scared.

I wanted to make sure that I would be able to be a mom.

And I think that's fair.

I feel like you can be an athlete. You can still be a mom.
You can, you can do it all. You don't have to fit into one box.
And I just think, you know, people are going to have something to say no matter what, no matter what, this is my life. And my son is very real.
And it's like, that's what matters. Absolutely.
Oh my gosh. And men don't have to think about giving up their career to become a parent the same way that women do.
They don't. And that's just in and of itself is heartbreaking because, I mean, you think about, we were just talking internally about, you know, one of our girls, you know, wants to try to have a baby this year.
And I said, great. And we're going to fill her role until she gets back.
And if she chooses not to come back, that's her prerogative. But the fact that women have to think about whether or not they're going to be able to keep their career if they're in a place to decide do they stay at home or do they not.
You wanted to have both. I did.
And there's no reason why you can't. So I think it's really heartbreaking that they, you know, and I know this isn't to talk shit about the WWE or anything, but maybe this would help open their eyes to the situation and you didn't have to choose between being a mom and whether you were injured or not, there was, there is a place for you.
Right. So I just think that's, you know, heartbreaking.
Yeah, it is. And that's what I was saying.
Like my husband, my, his job hasn't changed. He's going to work every week and he has five or four kids.
I'm like, wait, how many does he have? I'm getting out of control. son.
So it's like to have four kids and he still has a job and he's working. And again, very grateful for that.
But it's just, yeah, nothing about his life has changed. And it's just the reality that's the world we're in.
And again, you think like you've come so far as a society, but it's 2025 and these things are still happening. And I just wish, I wish more for women in general and moms and especially athletes.
I feel like it's, you shouldn't have to choose one. Like, why can't you have both? No, all things can be true.
All of it, you know? And I don't know. I just feel like if I could write a letter to them.
But again, you know what? And it's, it's, it is what it is. Like this is the journey I'm on right now.
And again, it's not, it's not talking shit on WWE. This is just what happened.
And again, I want to be open and honest about it because I feel like it's my duty. I've been honest about this entire process and I want to be open and honest for other women in the future.
But this is the path I'm on. And like, it's not for me right now.
It's something else is coming. And it's like, I'm feeling it.
It's coming my way. I'm like putting it out there.
Something good is coming my way. And again, I'm excited for it.
Like, why would you want to be somewhere that doesn't want you? And actually just listen to that. I'm listening to Mel Robbins' book, Let Them.
Oh, yeah. And so it's covering different aspects of the let them theory.
And one of the pieces of that was like, you don't want to be somewhere that you're not wanted. So let them not invite you, let them not include you, let them not resign your contract in your case.
And it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt. But at the end of the day, I think that it's just like what you do with it, how you react to it.
And I think, you know, you telling your story and you telling your truth, you're always going to have your, your fan base, your diehards and your family, of course. So I'm so grateful for that.
Absolutely. And I, I'm excited to see what you do with snatch too, because I think that I, that was the first time I had heard of it was when I agreed to do this interview and I was like, yeah, I would love this.
I got on the website and I thought it was really cool. And I, you know, I actually just had an interview with a woman who, um, she had a stillborn.
And so she's connected with a lot of women for miscarriage and still, you know, stillborns and things like that. And so just women who are going down that journey, this will be a really good place for them to sort of have a sense of community.
Yeah, exactly. And I love that.
So what was the deciding factor for you in wanting to speak up about this? Because I know that from what I know, I don't know, but from what I know, um, the WWE kind of has like a tight leash on what things, what can be said and you know, how you use the name and things like that. So did you ever think like maybe I shouldn't talk about it at all?

No, that was never an option for me because I feel like it's so important to speak up on this.

As a mom, I have two stepdaughters.

I have a platform where I have a lot of female followers and female fans from over the years. I need to speak up on this because if I don't, it's going to happen again.
Maybe not in WWE, but maybe somewhere else. And if this can help one company or one woman fight for herself or her career, then I'm so proud of that.
I think it's so important to speak openly. Other women, we need a champion for each other and rally around each other and I feel like if I didn't speak up then if I was getting so many questions like why aren't you resigning why didn't you go back you just want to be a mom like what and first of all there's nothing wrong with just being a mom yeah number one and number two that wasn't the truth like I felt like I needed to address this once and for all and to say like it wasn't up to me this isn't my choice like this is what they decided and it's the truth and there's never any harm in speaking your truth i've talked about quince hundreds of times over the years and i'm absolutely obsessed with it quince is my go-to for luxury essentials at affordable prices i have bath towels i have the comforter slippers i all kinds of things from Quinz.
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and 365 day returns that's q u i n c e.com famous to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com famous and i hope that you don't get any backlash for that because that is the truth i just i hate that because i saw your story the other day i think it was on your Instagram. Do you have TikTok? I don't really like posts on the TikTok.
Okay. So Instagram.
Yeah. Okay.
So it must've been on there and you, you were talking about how you're going to come on a podcast and you're going to share your truth and stuff. And I'm, I could imagine that your DMS were flooded at that point, wondering what, what is going on.
I told you before we started recording that I went to WrestleMania with my kids last year. And the following that is WWE, I have never in my entire life seen anything like it.
It's insane. I mean, we're talking the walks of life from...
Grandparents to babies. Shapes and colors from everywhere.
People next to me flew in from ireland i was shook i could not believe my eyes it was the craziest thing i've ever seen and that's something that you have for life for life i'm so grateful that i got to be a part of that for years like our fan like i traveled all over the world like any country can imagine i've been there and with our fans and And I feel so blessed that I got to do that for so long that is so cool I think I saw also is Charlotte Flair a female wrestler was or she was I saw her at an airport one time okay yeah so I only know a little bit from what my kids yeah um and then I think the only other mom that I was aware of in WWE was Becky Lynch. Becky, yep.
And then... So it was Becky Ronda, Ronda Rousey.
She had a baby under contract. Is she still under? She's not anymore.
Okay. But she was.
Okay. And then Nikki and...
And then Nikki and Brie were not with WWE when they had their kids. Got it.
And then there's Alexa Bliss. She actually just returned just returned she had a baby two weeks after I did and she just came back a few weeks ago so is that hard to watch yeah it was at first because but when she came back I didn't know that I wasn't ever returning so when I was watching her I was just like I texted her right away I was like oh my god that was because she came back she got such a great reaction and like the fans were so excited to see her and I was like hell yeah I'm like you show them like you can be gone for however long and come back and the kid like the crowd is still going to be like they were erupting for her and I was so happy for her and I was like I can't wait to do that but I mean Nikki came back right yeah I mean I know it's not the same sure but there was room for her to come back yeah and that's true like that's why I'm saying like never say never right in the future maybe yeah don't be a hypocrite like me I said I would never go back to teen mom and then I made a cameo so um yeah so, yeah.
So I already asked you, but just for like a clear

answer, what would you like to see for mothers moving forward specifically in WWE and athletes

across the board? I think moving forward as moms, I feel like I would like more support,

like backstage for these moms. Cause it's like, even if I were to go back, I would have had to

leave my son at home with my mom and like travel for two days and then come back home like something put in place where women are able to bring their kids to work and have them be there and like be in a safe space and not have to worry about like putting them in a hotel with you know a nanny or something right um like make it because this isn't normal job. This isn't like going to like bringing your baby to the desk every day at work.
This is like, we have to travel all over the world. So, um, some sort of more support for the moms, um, backstage and then just athletes in general, just in a perfect world, not having to choose, not having to choose career or mom.
I think that it's really important that you just noted that this isn't a regular job, right? And, and I don't, I'm not using the word regular to be disrespectful, but this isn't a nine to five. And so when people hear that, I don't want them to misinterpret what you're trying to say because we're, I mean, I think there should be more support across the board for moms in general yes but this is not a typical office job this is not you're not a teacher this is very special circumstances and I think in order to make everybody happy but also to include moms in the storylines and to have women as part of the storylines is so important for WWE in and of itself that it is important to have support there last year I had Becky Becky Lynch on the podcast and her kids were in the hotel room and, you know, she travels with them, but I don't think that that's always realistic to leave them in a, like maybe for her, right? Love that for her, but that's not for everybody.
And so, you know, making sure that you have a space to bring and travel with your kids, because if you are in another country for days or weeks on end, you have to, you know,. And you want to do both.
So why can't there be support for women to do both? Right. And that's what I'm saying.
The circumstances are a little different as an athlete because you're traveling so much. You're on the road.
You're in stadiums. It's just a different atmosphere.
And there just needs to be more balance. I think between work and mom and like being able to do both

Maybe we can be the HR for moms and W. Yeah, like you and I team up and we go in there and we're like

Hey, here's what we see for WWE and all these other like athletic places

Or or entertainment. I don't know right.
Maybe that's what we're implementing here. Sometimes on the podcast, we talk about the mental load of women and how men's lives don't necessarily change the same way that women's do.
And we briefly touched on that, but I think that it's, you know, just important to highlight that men don't have to think about any of this, right? Like they don't, and that's no disrespect to Matt, right? Like there's no disrespect to Elijah. But at the end of the day, they're not having to think about choosing between anything, travel and career or, you know, an injury or birthing a child in the first place.
It's like, you had to think about it. You thought you could have both, you know, your career and your, and, and being a mom, but you didn't even have to think about the fact, like you did have to think about what if something happens to me.
Right. And men don't really have to think about it because they're men.
Right. And I mean, and not only was I having all of these thoughts and the mental load, like you're saying was crazy and dealing with postpartum in and of itself is just like, men will never understand.
And again, not like they can, but like, it's just, they'll never get it. But like on top of it, having to feel like I was trying to get myself back into the best shape I possibly could, because I wanted to, I didn't want to be like, Oh, I had a baby and then my body changed and I can't go back and be Carmela and do things the way I wanted to do them.
So on top of all of it, it's like trying to get in the gym and try to make it while dealing with an injury. But like, what if they call me and want to bring me back for something? I need to make sure I'm ready.
I can't just like show up and not have to look like I just had a baby, even though I just had a baby. You know, it's like this crazy mindset that you have to be in to like, and like, you shouldn't have to look like you didn't have a baby.
Like, well, that's what society says. Bodies are so incredible that they do what they do.
And yeah, like you're saying, like society, it's like the snapback culture is just like, or bounce back or whatever they call it. Like, why do you need to bounce back or snap back? Like you would just had a baby, give yourself grace but like the whole time I'm like oh my gosh now I have to make sure I'm like getting back in the shape and dieting and this and that and it's like breastfeeding and not sleeping like it's just so much that again my husband didn't have to think about that no he's just eating his pizza drinking his beer and living his best life and I'm over here like milking myself, but I mean, it's just, it is what it is, you know? Yeah.
Well, I mean, be, make sure you're fit, make sure you're breastfeeding. Don't do formula.
But be a mom because your time is ticking. But then also you have a career, don't you want to have a career? And then also make sure you look the part, but you also have kids and you can't work because you have to be with the kids and you're not allowed to be away from the kids.
Right. And so.
I mean, it's, it's insane. Like it's insane when you think about it.
So when you guys were both, you know, working and things like that, did you have to work at different times so that somebody could stay with the kids or did you both go to every place together? Traveled together. So my husband has 50, 50 custody.
So we would get his kids Friday through Monday or it just depended on the week, whether we had a pay-per-view or whatever that happened, whatever that looked like. Um, so we would travel together, then come home, get the kids.
And then we're like full on, right into like parent mode. And then as if we weren't just wherever we were last night, it's just funny.
Um now i just feel like i've been in such mom mode for so long i don't even know like say i like did my makeup and like got a spray tan i'm like who is she like i don't recognize her i'm not used to it so it's just funny to like not be in that mode for so long for. So what's next for Leah? Not Carmella, not Mella, not WWE.
What is next for Leah? That's such a good question. I feel like, I mean, perfect world.
I would love to get, I love being in front of the camera. I love like being over the top, a little annoying, obnoxious.
So like it worked well for Carmella. I don't know how well it'll work for Leah, but we will see about that.
I just, I think maybe like getting to some hosting space or, um, I mean, dream job. Yeah.
Dream job. Roxy Hart in Chicago on Broadway.
Like, would you do it? I would die. Okay.
So do it. Oh my God.
Could you imagine? Yes, I can. Yes.
Are you kidding me? I would die. You better call your agent when you leave here.
You're like on the way to the airport and you've got to call your agent.

I'm in Philly. I'm like, I can meet you in New York right now.

Right now.

Three hours. Just give me three hours.

I think that would be cool if you did Broadway.

That would be like dream job.

No, I can see it.

I love, like when I was a kid, I would go to the Rockettes all the time.

Yeah.

In the holidays and I would sit there, Radio City, and like in the bathroom

and I would tell my mom, like someday I'm going to be here be here. I mean, it's not completely out of the question.
I mean, I would die to do that. Trisha Paytas has done it.
JoJo. Joanna Levesque.
She did Broadway. You could totally do Broadway.
I mean, you think. Do it.
Yes. I'll call myself.
I'm like, hold on. But in the good work for me.
Leah Van Dale is on her way. Okay.
Yeah, so Broadway and momming, of course. And being a mom.
Like, truly, I feel so grateful because this, at the end of the day, has been the greatest blessing, not going back to WWE because I have been part of my son's life every day for the last 15 months. And you can't get that time back.
No. And so I wouldn't change it for anything.
I've been able to be there for him every step of the way and watch him grow up. And at the end of the day, I can always get a job, but you can't always be there to watch your kids grow up.
If he grows up and asks you why you left the WWE, what would you say? I would be honest with him. I would tell him the truth.
And that because I became a mom and like, hopefully at that point in time, we will have progressed as a society and things will be different. Um, and I think that he would be proud of me for speaking up on it and like not being small and just speaking my truth.
I think he would be proud of it. think so too thank you for sharing your story thank you

so much for having of course before we go where can people find you on socials your website snatch

dot co yes um my instagram handle just changed so I'm so not used to this it's the leah vandale

which is wild um it was carmella for so long um yeah and snatch.co and then you can follow

snatch on instagram snatch for her thank you so much for coming on barely famous thank you Thank you.