Breaking It Down With Cate & Ty

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Speaker 7 Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.

Speaker 7 It's your fade villain, Kale Wower.

Speaker 7 And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Speaker 7 All right, Kate and Ty, welcome to the Barely Famous podcast.

Speaker 2 Ty. Thank you for it.

Speaker 7 I should say, Kate and Ty break it down.

Speaker 2 Welcome to the Bulletin Famous Podcast. Drop it, throw it out there.

Speaker 7 For those of you guys who don't know, Kate and Ty just dropped their own podcast.

Speaker 2 Super excited. Yeah.
Super excited.

Speaker 7 How did it go yesterday? Tell me in your own words.

Speaker 2 I thought it was great. I mean, it was like, it was fun.
Yeah, it was our first time, but we felt good about it.

Speaker 7 I was at the airport getting like live updates and I was like, how did it go? Like, I just wanted to hear because I couldn't be here. Yeah.
And everyone was like, it was so good.

Speaker 7 They were all super excited.

Speaker 2 And I told him I said, don't both smoke on my ass, you better. Tell me when I'm messing up.

Speaker 2 We will definitely tell you.

Speaker 2 But honestly, like podcasting is so fun because i feel like we just get like listeners get a longer glimpse into who you guys are as people because 100 obviously it's a longer episode than what we get on and we had a little more freedom yeah yeah and it was nice to just like jump in and go full force yeah instead of just dipping our toes wet into little things it was we came here and it was like boom boom boom boom boom and this is better because the people we're talking to it's like we don't really know we we purposely don't want to know too much about them i just want to like i want to really like make it authentic i want to feel real i want want it to feel just like you're chilling with us being out talking like normal.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't want it to be like really like, you know, news reporter.

Speaker 2 I'll show them pajamas. I don't give a shit.
All right. And snacks.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Let's do this.

Speaker 7 But what's cool about podcasting too is that like people know who Kate and Ty are, right? People don't necessarily know who your guests are, or maybe they have a smaller platform.

Speaker 7 And what's cool is that brings out new things about you guys that you're able to say because it opens a conversation more.

Speaker 7 And so maybe things that didn't get to air on T-Bomb, you'll be able to say, or maybe something that someone else says will trigger something that happened with you guys, right? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 7 I think that's like trigger a memory, I mean, not trigger you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, I don't. I hope no one triggers you, but it doesn't.
We're easily triggered. Yeah, I mean, I am, but no, neither here nor there.
But this bit, I mean, I honestly feel like

Speaker 2 people have been writing us for like years, and we're just like, yeah, you know, all right.

Speaker 2 But I feel like after a while, I was like, all right, clearly this is something that people want to hear about. And I also feel like kind of go off what you said about you get to see, um,

Speaker 2 no, through our perspective, not necessarily through MTV's perspective or Teen Mom's little clip of it.

Speaker 2 It's like now you get to really dive deep into like what our whole journey's been like, which I feel like people have a good idea, but not like the nitty-gritty details and what happens behind, you know, the scenes and stuff.

Speaker 2 And like, this gives us an opportunity to kind of just get right in there.

Speaker 8 And also, too, like, when stuff is aired about us, we can go into the facts. And this is what happened behind the scenes that the cameras didn't air or they didn't catch.

Speaker 8 And yeah, we can just kind of explain it more in more detail.

Speaker 2 Just more freedom because honestly, with team mom always changing, it's like less and less, you know, screen time, more stuff you're sharing with other, you know, you don't you only now you only get what five minutes maybe right.

Speaker 7 Uh, what is the structure of team mom next chapter? Because I haven't, I left you.

Speaker 2 What do you mean, the structure of what do you mean?

Speaker 7 So, what, so what is the diet?

Speaker 7 So, is it the same sort of structure as team mom and team mom, like team mom OG and team mom 2, but now it's blended together and you guys all have a couple minutes each?

Speaker 8 Well, no, no, it depends on if you make it in episodes or not.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Got it. So you're not in every, you guys might not be in every episode.
Right.

Speaker 2 Right, right. Got it.
Okay, because now there's what, eight, eight casting person. Eight or nine? Yeah.
So we have you guys,

Speaker 2 Macy,

Speaker 2 Leah,

Speaker 2 Amy. Yep, Amber.

Speaker 2 Oh, now you're going to fuck her all up. Oh, sorry.

Speaker 2 Who else? Oh, Mackenzie?

Speaker 2 Ashley. Oh.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then

Speaker 2 that's it, right?

Speaker 8 Cheyenne.

Speaker 2 Oh, James.

Speaker 7 There's nine people in.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.
So we were like, okay, this is the time. Fans have been asking for it for years.
Right. Started podcasts want to hear about adoption and trauma and addiction, all this other stuff.

Speaker 7 Well, so I always, always, always related to you guys, specifically on the addiction stuff. Yeah.
Because I felt like when your season of 16 and Pregnant aired, like the very first one episode shows,

Speaker 7 you guys were the only ones that really sort of shared the same

Speaker 7 background, I guess, as me with I don't whose parent your dad was an addict, right? My mom.

Speaker 2 And your mom.

Speaker 7 My mom, too. So I felt like you were the only ones that I really resonated with in that way.
I don't think that there are a lot of cast members on the show as

Speaker 2 a whole, like in the franchise that really struggled with that.

Speaker 7 And so I feel like I always resonated with your story because of that. But I wish we talked more about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's what I mean, because didn't it shape everything who you were? I don't think people understand my entire life to this day.

Speaker 7 Yeah, to this day, exactly. By addiction.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And how you're raised.

Speaker 7 And so it's really interesting that, you know, we have that in common. I feel like I always resonated with your story.
No, it's funny.

Speaker 2 I actually just, someone just saw a clip. I just saw a clip of when you first met your dad.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Me and Kate, I was like, dude, that was like my dad.
Like, that's, hey, I was like, that was really hard to hear.

Speaker 8 I'm like, yo, you're like, what'd you say? You're like, is this how your house always looks?

Speaker 2 I was just floored because I was like, what is happening?

Speaker 7 Because I had this fantasy in my head my entire life that my dad was like this knight in shining armor that was going to come save me when I was like whatever age. He's going to come.

Speaker 7 He's going to find me and he's going to take me away from all the problems only to find out that like

Speaker 8 he has a lot of problems too right

Speaker 2 yeah and also a lot of missing teeth so i was just like what's going on no but i saw the clip and i was like dude that is literally like our lives that's what we arranged in like so it's funny that you went there like whoa what the hell what is your relationship with like with what is your relationship like with your parents now i mean my dad is in texas still he oh so that's where my dad is okay

Speaker 2 holy

Speaker 2 okay uh but yeah so he's in texas he's uh after i got him to go to rehab in texas he just stayed down there but is he sober As I know of, I don't, I can't confess, I don't think he's, I don't think he's completely sober.

Speaker 2 I think he may dip and dabble here and there.

Speaker 2 But also, we don't talk to him enough.

Speaker 2 Why don't you guys talk? I just felt like for my own mental health, I was like, listen, like, I need to kind of create some parameters. Some boundaries.
A little bit of boundaries.

Speaker 2 Like, so I always reach out to him at least once a month and say, hey, because I think it's important for me to say, hey, I love you. I'm thinking about you today or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean I need to see you or you need to come in my life or anything like that, but I want to make sure that I don't have any regrets, you know, from

Speaker 2 me, you know, my reaching out or whatever. It's like peace of mind for me.
Yeah, for myself.

Speaker 2 And so I felt like once I realized that he was probably not sober, I was like, that's when I was like, all right, you're dipping and dabbling again. I got my own kids now, and I just feel

Speaker 7 it's safe. A personal choice on your end.
Yeah. Not necessarily because he wasn't reaching out or does he not reach out.

Speaker 8 He doesn't. He doesn't.

Speaker 2 He's starting to the last like year yeah i have to say he started reaching out more um he has a girlfriend that is down there that you know it's a whole nother story but she don't really like me really yeah she's uh yeah she don't like me but it's fine hey it's all it's all right um i she actually um thinks that i use my dad as like a you know story or like oh you use your dad as like a um yeah i'm here to say absolutely the fuck not but here's the thing we didn't ask to fucking be here and if you traumatize me for my whole fucking life i am going to talk about you.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 I have a camera for all my story. I'm like, dude, I'm going to talk about it.
You traumatize me. I deserve to talk about it.

Speaker 2 I'm going to ask for permission.

Speaker 7 I'm sorry, but you know, you don't get to dictate what you did to me and how I feel about it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I feel like for me, it was like, I just kind of keep a nice, safe distance that feels good for me. For sure.
And I plan on going to see him pretty soon.

Speaker 2 Or him coming to, you know, I was like, yeah, I want to fly you out. You haven't met my last two kids.
Like, oh, he hasn't? No.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, you know, it's time.

Speaker 2 And you seem to be be in a good space right now so I think now's the time um and I'll determine if that you know changes obviously but um yeah so I think we're I'm at a place where I'm just kind of like creating a safe distance with and what about your mom my mom's she's at our house right now yeah she's at our house right now watching my kids I love her I love

Speaker 2 what about your parents where

Speaker 8 what is the relationship with your mom now um with my mom now it's is she sober um I don't know but I don't police it enough all I know is that I gave her strict boundaries on the fact of I don't want you drinking around me and I don't want you drinking around the kids.

Speaker 8 And, you know, you're an adult. If that's something you want to do, just let me know.

Speaker 8 And I know not to come over or I know that you want to have some drinks, then I'll come pick my kids up or whatever, you know? But it's very,

Speaker 8 we've been through a lot. We went through a lot like on this past season and I cut her off for like a good year.
I just couldn't take it anymore. And

Speaker 8 now it's kind of slowly progressed into having conversations and she comes over to my house and sees the kids. And honestly,

Speaker 8 who opened opened that door was Nova.

Speaker 8 And her and I had this conversation and she just said, I really miss her. I really miss my grandma.
And I was like, well, fuck.

Speaker 8 Like, is there any way that I can do this in a way that makes me feel safe? And I know my children are safe.

Speaker 7 Right.

Speaker 8 And so

Speaker 8 my mom has come over to our house a few times for like barbecues and to see the kids. And there's been like two or three times where I'll drop the older two off of my mom's house just for the day.

Speaker 8 I'm not comfortable overnights yet. And she knows that.
I let them hang out for a few hours. I go there, pick them up, bring them home, like whatever makes me feel safe and comfortable.

Speaker 2 I'm okay with.

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 8 And I think that's maybe what needed to happen for my mom to realize, like, I'm not doing this anymore, this back and forth, the me not speaking when I'm uncomfortable, or I'm showing up and you're drinking and I don't say anything and I stay, but I'm anxious.

Speaker 8 Like I'm not doing it anymore for myself. And

Speaker 8 so it's been slowly progressing into a relationship, but I'm just literally taking it super slow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I feel like when it comes to your mom, we're just kind of following our intuition, like whatever feels like good. And I feel like your mom's been really good.
She's not like.

Speaker 8 She has. And I've noticed like she reached out to me and said, hey, I would love to start doing like a weekly thing.
I come over once a week.

Speaker 8 We do dinner or we make pies or we do something with the kids. And I said, absolutely.
And I told her, I said, that means a lot to me.

Speaker 7 And she's making the effort. Yes.

Speaker 8 Cause I felt like it was, I was always having to be the one to make the effort when in a mother-parent relationship, it should not be like that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because honestly, the whole reason why all the follow happened, there's a lot that happened as far as like you didn't, like, you didn't just attack, you know, or put, you know, do stuff in front of Nova that we didn't agree with, but you also totally like attacked our relationship.

Speaker 2 You attacked our lifestyle. Like, it was a hard time.

Speaker 2 Your mom did that? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
They went on like Instagram and they, yeah, it was just toxic. It was just bad.
It was not good.

Speaker 7 I don't think I knew about any of this. Was this like a public situation?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 I mean, she, she did, she made a couple quotes and stuff, and then her little brother went on Instagram live and did a whole like so much rumor stuff that just kind of got it was like unnecessary out of nowhere like what is going on.

Speaker 2 It was just really weird Thing and so I think at that point it was like all right Well how how could we consciously let you be a part of our lives when you actually are really just creating mess like for no reason like I can't consciously do that so until you get your shit together what I mean it's not safe for us to really be around you and that was on and she was like listen honestly the year that you didn't talk to your mom was the that's the only time that i really think about like wow you really stuck to your boundaries like it was yeah without promising yourself because i made a promise to myself there's been many times and i feel like you know when you do grow up an addiction and you're so used to policing the environment so you feel safe like

Speaker 8 you know, she would start drinking around me or whatever. And I would just, I would just shut down.
And I knew what my boundaries were to myself. Like, get up and say, hey, I'm leaving.

Speaker 8 I'll see you in a few days or or whatever. You're having, you're drinking, I'm leaving, you know, but I wouldn't.
I would sit there and I would just tire him instead.

Speaker 8 He's like, I could physically see your body turn inward.

Speaker 2 She would. She would, she would, like, I could see her, like, she would, her, she would literally make herself smaller on the couch.

Speaker 2 And I, so I would go up to her and just kind of like, hey, are you, you want to leave? Like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And it was, it was, it made me really uncomfortable because now I'm like, all right, I know my wife is like not liking this. And I, you're not my mom, so I can't, like, it's your house.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 I just felt really, it was like uncomfortable.

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Speaker 7 Do you think it was better to have each other

Speaker 7 during these times rather to, or did it, was it harder on your relationship because you would see her kind of struggling with it and then it would take a toll on your relationship?

Speaker 8 It never took a toll on our relationship. I think most

Speaker 2 there's a point when you were like, I'm gonna go to my mom's house. I'm just not, I don't wanna go.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like, I don't, I, that was my, and that was my boundary for my own because I'd have to sit there and be like,

Speaker 2 oh my God, now I gotta emotionally monitor her and make sure, you know,

Speaker 8 so eventually, yeah, so for me, it just got to a point where it was like,

Speaker 8 I'm not, I'm doing myself a disservice, yeah, like by not sticking to my boundaries. And so I made a promise to myself that I was, I'm never doing that again.
I will call it out every time I see it.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 so my mom and I had a conversation about that.

Speaker 8 We met up for lunch one time and had a conversation. And I laid out my boundaries again.

Speaker 8 And that was after we didn't talk for like six months. We met up, had a conversation, and I was, and I just was basically like, we can move forward, but these are my boundaries again.
And

Speaker 8 this is what I will not deal with. Fast forward like a month or two after we had that conversation,

Speaker 8 it was the Carly visit was happening. And my mom and I, you know, we're kind of still going through it a little bit, but we were talking and stuff again in the mending process.
Yeah.

Speaker 8 And so we had the Carly visit and

Speaker 8 two times during that visit, she was drinking. at the visit.

Speaker 7 Oh, she went to the visit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 8 And she was drinking at the visit. And I didn't want to call it out exactly right there in that moment, which I've learned through therapy wasn't the right thing.
What?

Speaker 8 Wasn't that my therapist said you should have stood up right in that moment and said, Hey, listen, if you're going to drink, you need to leave. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Was Carly present? Yes. So your therapist would have suggested for you to say that in front of Carly?

Speaker 8 Not right now in front of her, maybe

Speaker 2 in the vicinity.

Speaker 8 Like as soon as you see it happening, you speak on it. Right.
But my thinking in that moment was, I'm going to wait. We only have one more day.

Speaker 8 And after this visit, visit, I'm bringing it up to her, you know?

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 8 And so after the visit happened

Speaker 8 and

Speaker 8 we said our goodbyes. The next morning, I woke up to a text message from my mom's mom.
And she was basically going off on me saying, like, the way you treat your mom is disgusting.

Speaker 8 This is before I even said anything to my mom or anything.

Speaker 7 This always comes from the people who are enabling the addict or the alcoholic.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 7 Because I always have, people always have words for me, the ones that are enabling enabling my mom. Yes.
And it's like, dude.

Speaker 8 She just said all this nasty stuff to me and everything. And then, so I was, I literally just woke up, got that.
So then I reached out to my mom. I sent it to her.
I said, Your mom's fucking crazy.

Speaker 8 And for two, I don't appreciate you. I called her out on it.
And I said, I do not appreciate. Like, I let you into one of the most intimate things in my life.
And you know, my boundaries.

Speaker 8 And you did it anyways. And she said, well, I didn't think it was that big of a deal because other people were having drinks too.
And I said, they're not the alcoholic.

Speaker 8 They're not the one that traumatized me. And one of the reasons why my child is where she is, because I didn't have any support.

Speaker 8 And so it just, it really blew up. And I think I needed that.
I needed to feel what it was like to be strong and to not rely on her for anything, you know?

Speaker 8 And that's when we didn't talk for like a year. And so now it's just very slow moving.
And it's for the kids. And same thing, like.
Tyson not wanting to have any regrets with his dad.

Speaker 8 I don't want to have any with my mom either, but she needs to understand what I will tolerate and what I will not anymore. Absolutely, you know, and I stand firm in that.

Speaker 8 But if, again, if there's a safe way where the kids can be involved and she can be involved, then I'm cool with that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I respect that.

Speaker 7 I think just knowing your boundaries is, you know, the best thing you can do for yourself and for your kids.

Speaker 8 But I kind of hated myself in a sense.

Speaker 8 I felt like a part of it was my fault at the Carly dinner because there were so many times before that where she knew my boundaries and she would do it in front of me and I would never call it out.

Speaker 8 And so I think she was so used to that pattern. Of course, she's going to think, oh, I can do this and she's not going to call it out because she never has.
Right. And then when I did, she blew up.

Speaker 7 Well, because the boundary is for you. Yes.
And it's up to you to like stand firm in it. And she has to learn to respect it or not.

Speaker 2 And, you know, and especially it's one of those things where it's like, you know, you guys, we actually invited you into this really intimate thing, the most intimate thing and personal thing that we ever could do.

Speaker 2 Do with her.

Speaker 2 We're giving you the honor of like, let's, let's come to the visit.

Speaker 8 Because I don't have to invite anybody. It could be just me, tying the girls, you know?

Speaker 2 So it just kind of

Speaker 2 blew up on our face. And

Speaker 2 obviously after that happened, that's when like they went online and kind of like just threw our whole relationship all over the place.

Speaker 8 Yeah, Tyler's gay.

Speaker 2 He has a boyfriend that lives in Arizona.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 But like started all this shit. And then honestly, like, you know, and the way I took it was, and I was like, listen, I don't take anything personal that your mom says about me.

Speaker 2 I don't take anything personal about what your little brother says about me. I know who I am, comfortable, whatever.

Speaker 2 My problem is, is that when they say certain things like Kate always listens to Tyler or does whatever he says you're diminishing her strength you're you're literally dehumanizing her robbing her of all the strength that she had on her own i was not involved any of the strength she did it on her own so you're you're you're taking it away from her and how dare you rob her of that by bashing me

Speaker 2 for saying that he controls yeah that's actually a really good point like what are you doing like i i i've watched your daughter go through therapy i've watched her struggle and fight and and just scround to get to where she is.

Speaker 2 And for you to say, oh, well, she does everything you say or whatever. I'm this big controlling person or whatever the case is.
Like, how dare you?

Speaker 7 Well, because acknowledging that would require them to have some level of self-awareness that they clearly didn't or don't have.

Speaker 7 I mean, I don't know them, so I don't speak to them right now, but maybe at that time, they didn't have that level of self-awareness. And that would cause, they would have to look at themselves.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 But it was way easier for them to place the blame on you.

Speaker 2 That's what I told her.

Speaker 2 I think it's easier for your mom to. place the blame on me than to say, wow, maybe I traumatized her as a child and that's why she's

Speaker 2 making these decisions. You know, it's not.
Which she knows.

Speaker 8 She's been to multiple family weeks. I've been in treatment.
She knows what she has done, you know.

Speaker 7 Does she ever acknowledge any of that?

Speaker 8 She has. Yes.
She definitely has. She's acknowledged.
She's apologized. She's, you know, all of the things.

Speaker 8 But, you know. I think one of her problems is, too, that she doesn't do all the therapy for all the shit she went through as a kid.

Speaker 7 Well, I also think that, I mean, you can apologize until you're blue in the face.

Speaker 7 Until you make those changes and your actions are the apology, it it doesn't it's sort of a moot point yeah sorry is just a word right yeah and you have nothing

Speaker 8 and if a month later you're cussing me out and saying bad shit about my husband again you are never really sorry exactly yeah because at that point it's a choice like you're choosing to do that and my clause came out with that too it's like how dare you this man has supported me through

Speaker 8 My whole life, basically. We've been together for 17 years.
I have four beautiful daughters with this man.

Speaker 8 And if you think that I would stay in a relationship with a man that controlled me and I just listened to everything that he said, you're out of your fucking mind.

Speaker 7 Because you don't know me as a person.

Speaker 8 No, because you don't. And I have four daughters.
If you think I want them to think that that's a normal way to live and that's really how you think I am, then I don't want nothing to do with you.

Speaker 8 100%. You know, like I'm not that type of person.

Speaker 7 So when you guys are going through

Speaker 7 everything that you're going through now with,

Speaker 7 you know, Carly's adoptive parents, what does that do with your relation to your relationship with your parents? Like, does Butch have anything to do with, like, do you ever talk to him about it?

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 7 No. And do you ever talk to your mom about it?

Speaker 8 My mom and I did have a conversation, yeah, and she was pissed. She was pissed.
And, you know, my mom is very abrasive. She says hurtful things.

Speaker 8 She, you know, but then once she got all that out, she kind of got to the point of like, I'm so sorry. You know, so I let her have her moment of she's pissed.
Oh, fuck them.

Speaker 8 She's just very blunt about all that. And then she turned it around and was like, I'm so sorry, you know, like, and

Speaker 8 I mean,

Speaker 8 it's, yeah, it's just a lot. It's always something.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 2 Especially with just the history of our parents. They were together and then now they're not.

Speaker 7 Oh my God. I forgot to say that.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Hey, you remember we were step siblings. You know what I'm saying? Hey, hey, hey.
Why trash over here? Yeah. Living in a trash apartment.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, so like the fact that they were married before, it's just like our, our parents, we would be lying if we said they weren't a part of our story. But just like.

Speaker 2 But I think it's weird how the parents are kind of like, who, you know, they're like, oh, well, you're, you're doing it. It's like, no, dude, I'm just telling the truth.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and you're, I'm sorry that, like, you know, MTV can't make you look like shit or put words in your mouth. You know what I mean? Like, you called your daughter a bitch.

Speaker 2 You're the one that, so it's like, I, especially for our type of show.

Speaker 8 Yeah, you did it all to yourself. I wasn't, you know, telling you what to say or call me a whore on TV.
Like, that was you, not me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I think it's just one of those things where it's like, we have to create a safe distance with our parents. And I feel like we're, it took a minute.

Speaker 2 It took, it takes a while, like, I feel like to kind of create what is my safety net? Where am I comfortable? Went too far that time. I'm like, come back in.

Speaker 2 Like, it's just, it's kind of a constant evolving.

Speaker 7 Well, I think humans are like creatures of habit, right? And so sometimes chasing the chaos or, or that fear of the unknown becomes the pattern. And that's sort of what we're used to.

Speaker 7 And so anything normal or calm or constant sort of feels foreign. And you're like, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Go back to the chaos.
We're uncomfortable. Yeah, where's a grenade?

Speaker 8 And you know what's so funny is like I grew up in so much chaos my whole entire life. One of my biggest dreams was was like to have my own place and it be safe and calm and nurturing.

Speaker 8 And so it's when I have chaos around, I tend to now just want to go home. We retreat.
You know, I want to go home to my safe zone because I never felt safe as a kid ever.

Speaker 2 What was your childhood like?

Speaker 7 I know your mom was an alcoholic, but what is the relationship with your dad?

Speaker 8 My dad.

Speaker 7 Is he also an addict or no?

Speaker 2 No, no.

Speaker 8 My dad has always, you know, worked really hard, all the things. Of course, when I was growing up and I was younger, like a lot of my child memories are with my dad.

Speaker 8 I don't have a lot at my mom's house. All the ones being little, my mom's are very traumatic.

Speaker 7 But they're separated. They were always, they were divorced.

Speaker 8 Yeah. They were never married.
My mom was 19. My dad was like 20 or 21 when they had me.

Speaker 7 So you grew up living with your dad most of the time? Nope, my mom.

Speaker 8 I lived with my mom.

Speaker 7 So why didn't you live with your dad?

Speaker 8 Because they separated when I was, before I was even one, I think.

Speaker 7 But if if she wasn't stable and she was an alcoholic, why was there ever an option for you to go live with your dad?

Speaker 8 I know my mom and dad went to court when I was 10? Maybe a little younger than that. Yeah, eight, nine, or ten.
My dad fought for a few years.

Speaker 2 Was that after you moved to Florida?

Speaker 8 No, before he moved to Florida, yeah. But my dad,

Speaker 8 he didn't do everything right. You know, he very much so got into a relationship with a woman who was very toxic, gave me a lot of my self-confidence issues.

Speaker 8 She was very mean to me, emotionally abusive. Not, I mean, there were some physical things, but not like kidding, but cutting your hair, I think.
That's what I mean. I guess that's physical.

Speaker 2 That's physical abuse.

Speaker 8 Would tell me that I was fat and overweight and I couldn't eat certain things. This was your stepmom?

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Are they still together? No.

Speaker 8 But they were married for like 11 years.

Speaker 7 Oh, that's a long time.

Speaker 8 And so I was a kid.

Speaker 2 And throughout the 11 years, she was at. I was going, but I was going,

Speaker 8 and I would go to my dad's every other weekend. And my dad would pick me up from school every Wednesday, and it would be just me and him, and we would go like on a lunch date or whatever.

Speaker 8 Um, my dad is very regretful in the choices that he has made, and he has apologized numerous times. And, you know, I forgive him for that because he has shown me actions.

Speaker 8 You know, he makes it a point to be in my life. He calls me once or twice every single week, and we have, you know, we talk on the phone.
And

Speaker 8 I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there was an action after his sorry. Yes, you know what I mean? Like, there was like actions.

Speaker 8 And so I really have, you know, I've forgiven him for that.

Speaker 7 Are you his only child?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 7 So you have other siblings. So you have a brother from your mom?

Speaker 2 You have five.

Speaker 7 You have five siblings?

Speaker 8 I have a brother.

Speaker 7 Why am I just now learning this?

Speaker 8 We don't have, and none of us have a relationship. It's actually really sad.

Speaker 7 Yeah. Even your little brother?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 8 And he was the one I was closest with. So what it is, is on my mom's side, it's me, I have a sister and my youngest brother, Nick.

Speaker 7 The sister is older or younger than you?

Speaker 2 Younger.

Speaker 8 She's middle. We're 40.

Speaker 7 Are you the oldest of all your siblings? Okay. No.
No.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, Andrew. Oh my God.

Speaker 8 I have, yeah. So on my mom's side, it's us three.
It's me, my sister, and my brother. I'm the oldest.
My sister's the middle, and my little brother is the youngest. On my dad's side,

Speaker 8 he had a son when he was like 16 years old.

Speaker 8 He's four or five years older than me. And I didn't meet him until I was like nine.
eight or nine.

Speaker 2 How'd you meet him?

Speaker 8 I remember waking up one day and this kid was there and I remember him looking over a bunk bed and my dad's like, oh, this is your brother.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 7 So like the trauma.

Speaker 7 Have you ever said this story out loud?

Speaker 8 Yeah. Have you? I mean, I feel like I have.

Speaker 2 No. I know you told me like I was in my bunk bed and my brother.
Probably only Tyler. Probably only Tyler.

Speaker 8 And the sad thing about my brother is

Speaker 2 he

Speaker 8 You know, he lived with a very not mentally well mother.

Speaker 8 My dad, she was a T-mom, obviously. My dad was 17.
My dad didn't know that he had a son for many years, found out he had a son.

Speaker 7 This just keeps getting worse.

Speaker 8 Yeah. My brother now is very, it's sad.
He's just, my dad has nothing to do with him, wants nothing to do with him because he is

Speaker 8 mentally ill as an addict and all of the things. And you wonder why.
And I feel bad for my brother.

Speaker 8 I was, I built a relationship with him when I was like 12, 13 years old, and I fell in love with him. We were so close.
We, you know, talked all the time he lived with my dad actually for a while

Speaker 8 for a few years when he was growing up and then he got to the age of 18 and my dad said his wife basically said he needs to get a job or he needs to leave and my brother ended up leaving and it's just been very toxic for him but and then on my dad's side there's a little brother and my stepsister amber which was my dad

Speaker 8 also have an amber yep okay so you both have an amber yep okay yeah but my steps my stepsister is my dad's toxic ex-wife's daughter. Got it.

Speaker 8 But her and I, it's funny because I don't have a relationship with any of my siblings.

Speaker 7 Except for her. Yeah.

Speaker 8 And they're divorced now, but I still, ever since I was, you know, I think I was like three and she was four when they got married. So my whole life, she was my sister.

Speaker 7 Was she also traumatized by her mom?

Speaker 8 Very much so.

Speaker 7 So that, okay, you know how people say, oh, like.

Speaker 7 You talk about trauma and they call it trauma bonding, but that's like not actually trauma bonding. Trauma bonding is when you go through the trauma together.
Right. That whole thing.

Speaker 7 Do you think that that's sort of why, like, why you guys bonded the way that you did?

Speaker 8 I think so. I think

Speaker 8 being older is when we've gotten way closer. When we were younger, we used to fight and, you know, like sisters would and stuff.

Speaker 2 But but I think it was more or less like you know, you had to keep watching her have a life that you really wanted with your dad. Yeah, so that's definitely

Speaker 8 sibling animosity, you know, kind of thing.

Speaker 7 Like a resentment almost. Yeah.
Like you didn't get to live with your dad full-time and she did.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 And my dad adopted her. So she has like my, you know,

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 8 my last, you know, our last name and everything.

Speaker 7 Um, do they still have a relationship now? Oh, yeah, they do.

Speaker 8 That's my dad's daughter. She has a daughter.
That's his granddaughter, you know. She,

Speaker 2 she

Speaker 8 doesn't have a relationship with her bio dad or anything. Um, and so that's all she has known is my dad since the age of four, you know.
Um,

Speaker 8 but her and I have a very close relationship. Her mom was so like disgusting to her that she said one time her mom

Speaker 8 looked at her because her boyfriend broke up with her and she said to her,

Speaker 8 Something to the fact of, you're just jealous because all your boyfriends want me.

Speaker 2 Like nasty.

Speaker 8 She is the loopy. Like she's she when you meet this lady, it's almost like she's fucked up on pills 24-7.
Yeah. She's airy, out there, says weird shit.
Like

Speaker 8 it's just been lots of trauma on that side.

Speaker 8 But my sister has nothing to do with her mom. She can't stand her.
Like she, you know, has cut her out of her life completely.

Speaker 8 And actually, she's done great making her boundaries with with her mom oh yeah she does nothing to do with her but and her her and i are the closest we're not even blood related

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Speaker 7 I'm still just so fascinated that I didn't like, I feel like you have, you have one sister and that's it. Yep, one sister.

Speaker 2 I knew that.

Speaker 7 I had no idea I knew you had a little brother from your mom yep I'm just sort of floored sorry I threw all that on you

Speaker 7 by the way I'm just thinking about how addiction has impacted all three of us and none of us have went down that road thank god isn't that so interesting though like i don't know i know addicts who came from really really wealthy well-to-do families

Speaker 7 and they're struggling on the streets right now. And then we came from very

Speaker 7 tumultuous

Speaker 7 families and childhoods, and we did not go down that path. And I wonder what that was, what the difference is.

Speaker 8 And I think it's, and I think it's sad because you're like, you know, I didn't go down that path. My stepsister didn't go down that path.

Speaker 8 And some of my siblings did. Like my sister on my mom's side, she was an addict for a long period of time, addicted to pills, addicted to cocaine.

Speaker 7 Okay, so you've experienced addiction, your parent, your sibling, and your husband's family.

Speaker 2 A few of your siblings.

Speaker 8 Yeah, my oldest brother, he he has an addiction problem he's actually been sober just going on two years now most recently um and i like applaud him for that um

Speaker 8 my brother on my dad's side the littlest one he's definitely addicted to weed you know so it's like there's yeah addiction runs rampant on both sides of our family that's why we have to be very careful when we talk you know we talk to our kids openly about all the things um which is why i think we've done such we've focused so much on like okay let's explore the trauma so we understand it better.

Speaker 2 So that way we can know exactly what not to do with our own kids. And I think that's what people get kind of confused.

Speaker 2 Like, well, we've heard it all the time, like, oh, you guys are just always talking about your trauma. It's like, well, listen, it's important, though, because that's what, that's what we need to do.

Speaker 7 But what else are you going to, you are undoing

Speaker 8 years,

Speaker 8 generations.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I mean, we're talking like over a decade worth of trauma from addiction and everything else. So it's going to take just as long or longer to undo that and unpack that and digest that.

Speaker 2 I think people don't really get intergenerational trauma. They don't get that.
Like your mom, then you're, it's a ripple effect and it has to stop somewhere. So we had to.
We had to make it.

Speaker 7 All you do is talk about your trauma. What, like, how else?

Speaker 2 That's what people say now. Or that we're trauma bonded.
And it's like, okay, I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 2 I'm not denying the fact that we're trauma bonded, but I feel like there's a negative viewpoint of that. And then it's also just a truth and a fact matter of that, yes, adoption is trauma.

Speaker 2 Yeah, our parents were addicted.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean,

Speaker 8 and honestly, I'm like, if this is trauma bonded, then I'm glad I'm in it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know,

Speaker 8 but we've, you know, but I think, and I don't think people understand, but before cameras came around, you know, and ever caught, caught us where we were at in our lives,

Speaker 8 Ty and I, we did bond on a form of just like, damn, like your life's crazy, my life's crazy.

Speaker 7 And we, but that's we were over, that's like bonding over the traumas.

Speaker 2 The similarity almost. That's not trauma.

Speaker 2 There's a a difference yeah right and so it was like we very much could talk to each other and relate to each other but then y'all were trauma bonded by the adoption process and going through we acknowledge that and we're like but i think people kind of have this negative connotation with oh you're trauma bonded it's like well listen when you go through life like talk to any you know married couple who's been married for 50 plus years i guarantee they've bonded through trauma together as a couple it's inevitable right i mean it's it's part of life so 100 and also you can ask dr mike dow uh yeah

Speaker 2 wait he's yeah uh he's our therapist. He's the one that did psychedelic therapy with.
Yeah.

Speaker 7 We need to talk time out. We have to talk about this.
It's ketamine, right? Ketamine. Yes.
Tell me about this because I thought ketamine was like the zombie drug.

Speaker 2 The horse tranquilizer. Remember we were kids?

Speaker 8 No, he freaked me out the first time when he said he was going to do it. I was like, horse tranquilizer? I'm like, you're going to do horse drink lyzer.

Speaker 2 I was like, do people get high off that?

Speaker 8 People can, yeah, on the street.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 7 It's like, yeah, but there is, is it like fentanyl where there's like a medical use for it and then a street?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yes. Okay.

Speaker 7 Yeah. So I'm thinking that you were like using the street drug drug to

Speaker 7 medicate yourself. And I was like, I don't know if we should go down that path.

Speaker 2 No, honestly, I think it's important to talk about because there's been so much research done with psychedelic therapy in general and all the data that's coming out.

Speaker 7 Did you talk to Becky about this?

Speaker 2 Because she used to microdose. No, but no.
Oh, really?

Speaker 2 Y'all should talk about it. Okay, psilocybin?

Speaker 7 Excuse me?

Speaker 2 She micro-doses psilocybin. Mushrooms.
Okay, yes.

Speaker 7 Okay. So you guys should talk about that

Speaker 7 at another time. But so is it like that?

Speaker 2 It's exactly like that.

Speaker 2 You're kind of hooked up.

Speaker 2 They give you the ketamine and it's guided. It's like

Speaker 2 a professional. Oh, yeah.
I'm in a zero

Speaker 2 chair, wineful music.

Speaker 7 Do you ever, do you feel different, or is it just

Speaker 7 his conscious changes?

Speaker 2 He's high as fuck. He's high.
Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 What does it look like? I've never done it. I'm too scared.

Speaker 2 What does he look like?

Speaker 8 When he came home, he was totally fine. Wait, when you weren't there?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 7 So you just got fucked up medically, professionally.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But if you look at the situation

Speaker 2 in a therapeutic environment with a doctor, doctor's therapist, who's a therapist, whatever. And what happens is you kind of create this

Speaker 2 portal, whatever you want to call it, to tap into all the subconscious in your head. And so you go in there with a really big intention.

Speaker 2 Like I spent two weeks doing pre-psyched, like going into what we're going to tackle. And I think for me, the only thing I really got out of it was that

Speaker 2 I was able to visualize myself healing and comforting my younger self visually. So now when I meditate, because I have to meditate every day or else I'm going to lose my life.

Speaker 8 Can you explain what that was though? Like you literally saw your older self.

Speaker 2 I literally saw my older self and I was a little boy and I was crying about my dad or whatever at two different ages. One I was eight and one when I was 11.

Speaker 2 And I literally was like me as I am now. And I just gathered both of them.
it was and it was this is all visual obviously i'm

Speaker 2 you know tripping but you knew you were tripping like you oh, yeah.

Speaker 7 Like, even when you get high, like when you smoke, have you ever smoked weed?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, I just wasn't sure.

Speaker 7 Um, like, so when I would get high, I would be like, can this go away? Like, I'm tired now. Like, I'm over.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, you don't want this to go away. You want to stay in here.

Speaker 7 But does that scare you? Did it ever scare you and like make you want to keep using that stuff?

Speaker 2 That type of thing? No, no, because it's not. Ketamine's not like, you don't get addicted.
You can't get addicted. It's like, it's like, it's almost like you can't get addicted to psilocybin.

Speaker 2 You can't get addicted to LSD because it's just too much. You can't.
It's like,

Speaker 2 I mean, if you are, you're fucking permanently damaged your brain. Like, you can't do that.

Speaker 7 Wait, you can't get addicted to those things.

Speaker 8 I think people can get addicted, but I think what he means is like it takes so much mentally and emotionally and physically.

Speaker 8 You don't want to do it every single day.

Speaker 7 So it's not sort of like.

Speaker 2 Microdosing is different. I'm talking taking a dosage where you are like fucked up.
Yeah. Like,

Speaker 2 you did an LSD? No. Because he was.
Have you? Absolutely.

Speaker 7 Have you?

Speaker 8 Yes. And I hated every moment.
She hated it.

Speaker 2 She absolutely. Y'all did it together? Yes.
Oh, yeah. She hated it.

Speaker 7 no wait

Speaker 2 no listen no listen what is going on a lot what the is okay listen is that the thing you put on your topic acid it's acid lsd acid psychedelic right different than mushrooms psilocybin is natural uh lsd is not so listen so

Speaker 2 hold on

Speaker 2 That's what actually inspired me to go do ketamine and actually take it as a in a therapeutic, not recreational use.

Speaker 7 No, no, no, because there's so many, we have a lot to unpack here.

Speaker 2 Let's let's unpack.

Speaker 8 Okay, start start one by one.

Speaker 7 We're going to go back to the ketamine. Okay.
But first, I need to know where you were and why you tried LSD.

Speaker 7 Like, what opportunity presented itself?

Speaker 2 So we had a friend.

Speaker 8 Yeah, we have a friend named Tom.

Speaker 2 Yeah, my best friend.

Speaker 8 Definitely into psychedelics.

Speaker 7 And he was like, here, I have LSD. And you were like, okay.

Speaker 8 Yeah. So it was us and a big group of friends.

Speaker 2 And we lived in our trailer, which was shown on TV.

Speaker 8 Yeah, we lived in our trailer and we were all like, all right, we're going to take it, you know, not knowing that it takes like an hour or so to kick in.

Speaker 2 Or that it lasts for like seven hours.

Speaker 8 But so then all of a sudden we're like, well, let's go look. It hasn't kicked in yet.
What does it look like?

Speaker 8 It's just like a little piece of paper, a little square piece of paper, and you put it on your tongue.

Speaker 8 And it didn't kick in for a while. And we're all like, well, we should all probably like eat before this kicks in, you know? So me and my friend Casey, me and Casey,

Speaker 8 me and Casey go to McDonald's to get McDonald's for everybody. And kicked in.

Speaker 8 And I'm sitting in there. No, and I remember looking out the window and saying, Casey? And he's like, yeah, I'm like, the clouds are moving.
He's like, they always move.

Speaker 8 I go, no, dude, like supersonic speed clouds, you know? And then we get back to the trailer park. It is hit everybody.
We had McDonald's. Nobody ate shit.

Speaker 2 No one ate McDonald's.

Speaker 8 You can't eat nothing.

Speaker 2 It was on the couch. That lasted for seven hours.

Speaker 8 I was so paranoid. I was hiding in the bedroom in the dark.
I thought I was going to sleep. You hated it.
Hated it. I'm like, I'm going to go to sleep.
I need to go to sleep. I need to go to sleep.

Speaker 7 Sleep. That's how I am with weed.
Like, I cannot get fucked up because it just let me get it, just stop, just make it stop.

Speaker 8 But the problem is, is that you cannot sleep.

Speaker 2 You can't get off the roller coaster once you're strapped in.

Speaker 8 People were laughing in the living room, and I felt the laughter. I felt the sounds were vibrating through my body, dude.
Like

Speaker 2 I had the greatest time I ever had. I'm freaking out.
I'm having a discovery. So I'm like, where is she at? I go in the back room and she's like, in the dark

Speaker 2 with the blanket above her head, like up to here. She's like, uh-uh.
I said, I hate it. I hate what's wrong with you.
I hate it. And she said, I hate it.
I said, can you hate it?

Speaker 7 Can you act normal on it?

Speaker 2 No, you just, you just succumb, surrender, throw your hands up. You're really good to control.
Got it. And I don't look.
And I walked in the room and she said, I hate it.

Speaker 2 And I was like, I can't be in here. Okay.
And I like, and that was it. And then she would eventually came

Speaker 8 up when Casey dragged me outside and I was like, this is beautiful.

Speaker 2 You got to go outside. It can't be a little tin box.

Speaker 8 And I have a vivid remember of sitting on the couch, so paranoid. And Tom's looking at me like, it's just a drug, man.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm like, Tom, leave her alone, stop.

Speaker 7 So you hated it. You loved it.
And you were like, I'm definitely micro-dosing on ketamine.

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Speaker 2 Years and years later.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was 17. I didn't do ketamine until a year ago, two years ago.

Speaker 7 That was recent.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 They covered it on this show, TV show.

Speaker 7 Everyone told me to ask you about it because I talked about ketamine on my podcast because I had no idea what the fuck it was and I didn't know what it is. So now we can talk about ketamine.

Speaker 7 Okay, so you go into this environment where it's controlled. There's professional.
You are strapped in.

Speaker 2 There's music. You have like therapy sessions.

Speaker 8 You have therapy sessions before you even do the ketamine therapy. So you have intentions.

Speaker 2 And then you, the purpose of it is to go into, tap into your subconscious of where your neural pathways have been built in a way that are not serving you. Okay.

Speaker 2 And so you go back and you rewire your neural pathways in a different way, which it worked like a charm. The fact that I can go immediately, I can meditate right now if I wanted to.

Speaker 2 And I can go into this visual. And it's like the most warming, peaceful hug you've ever had.
It's like, it's hard to assume.

Speaker 7 How many times did you have to do that to get to where you are now?

Speaker 2 The ketamine? Yeah. Only once.

Speaker 8 But you've done it twice. You did one in Michigan and then you had a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, I did one in Michigan to kind of test it out to see what it like. And then once I realized, like, oh, wow.
Like, they had to actually wake me up. They're like, Tyler, you're done now.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, well, I don't want to go back. Like, what the hell?

Speaker 2 But, and then that's when it got, that's when it kind of sparked in me like, all right, I need to look into this like more. And that's when I found Dr.

Speaker 2 Mike, who's a professional, years of research, wrote a book about it, like, whatever. And that's when I was like, okay, I'm going to do it with you so he

Speaker 8 was different yeah so that's did you go with him no but you came to visit i came to visit at the end and we had a session me him and dr mike about like what he found out about himself and us even came up and do you know if

Speaker 7 you said things in therapy while you were

Speaker 2 on the ketamine no he well he starts talking to you as you're going under um but then eventually i'm like i don't even hear him and that's when you know it's kind of just all right experience whatever's going on.

Speaker 7 I don't know that I want to discover the things that I don't remember.

Speaker 2 It's no, it's really scary.

Speaker 7 I will be honest with you. I do not want to know.

Speaker 2 No, no, it's scary.

Speaker 2 No, it brought up, it brought up stuff that, like, I had to re not relive it, but I relived it from an outside, almost like a ghost in the corner, like an out-of-body experience, yeah, yes, very out-of-body, watching me get abused, watching me

Speaker 2 attempt suicide, watching me like do all these things that I didn't know these things, yeah. Well, I mean, now you do,

Speaker 2 but but like it takes you

Speaker 2 really like stuff that because honestly, we're we're our brain just does things to try to protect ourselves, right?

Speaker 2 So we will like, you know, we'll fortify it in a way where it's like, no, we don't remember that memory. We don't go in there, block it out, yeah.

Speaker 2 So, this really, which actually manifests physically, anxiety, depression, uh, mood swings. I

Speaker 2 have a belief, and this is just me thinking, but like, I have really believed that those

Speaker 2 hidden stuff in the subconscious actually presents presents itself as like bipolar. Like it messes with your neural pathway that affects everything in your life.

Speaker 2 So when you, when I was doing it, it was like an out-of-body experience where I was like watching myself be abused and all these traumatic things.

Speaker 2 And then at the very end of it, I was able to kind of comfort those ages.

Speaker 7 When you say abuse, do you mean like fit like sexually abused? You were sexually abused. And have you talked about that before?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yes.
It does openly.

Speaker 2 And I actually like wrote a letter and stuff. And the part of my, part of my, so you do the ketamine treatment.

Speaker 2 Then afterwards, there's post-treatment like homework you have to do um and therapy sessions and therapy sessions afterwards to kind of you know yeah break everything down but one of the one of the things that my psychiatrist was like this is what you need to do is write a letter to your your younger self and so i i did that hugely impactful like it was like whoa i was able to like let it go burn the letter and it just felt freeing and so

Speaker 2 uh yeah it was just like it was the best thing I ever did.

Speaker 2 And I did years of therapy, but I swear to God, this one ketamine session equaled like five years' worth of therapy for me as far as just healing.

Speaker 7 So, do they say to continue doing it, or do they say it's like sort of at your own discretion? Yeah, at your own discretion, yeah.

Speaker 8 But, and some people say, like, hey, I have to go and do a session like every six months, or sometimes you get to the point where it's like, oh, I only have to do it once a year or once every three years.

Speaker 8 It depends on how much you have to unpack. Yeah, but there, I mean, just the statistics alone of it, it's literally curing people's PTSD,

Speaker 8 curing anxiety and depressive orders, like disorders.

Speaker 8 Yeah, like it's literally curing it. And they have proof, like statistic proof of it.

Speaker 2 And mushrooms are right up there. A psilocybin will be prescribed in the next 10 years to people instead of

Speaker 7 mushrooms. Like swears by them.
I had, we weren't friends for five years, so I missed that chapter of her life, but she was telling me about how just like micro-dosing really, really helped.

Speaker 2 So I think we could know that.

Speaker 7 Yeah. Well, now you know next time you guys are talking about it.
Or we could do like a swap where it's like both of us and both of you.

Speaker 2 That would be fun. We can do it in Louisiana.

Speaker 7 You guys could talk about it. Because I've never experienced anything with psychedelics before.
I smoked weed and I hate the feeling of it. Like, I just don't love it.

Speaker 2 It, it, I took money kids too, and I hate it.

Speaker 2 No, there, and there are, there are some people who, like, I feel like who have more of a uh anxiety issues that they don't like not being in control of their body. I hate it, I hate it.

Speaker 2 And so, me, I love it. Free me.
Mine, I want to surrender.

Speaker 7 Mine is more of like, I don't know how I'm being perceived.

Speaker 2 That's not control, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 Like, I don't know what I'm like, if I look stupid, if I sound stupid, I don't want other people to see me that way. Yeah, so I can't, I, I can't

Speaker 2 relax, I guess.

Speaker 8 Yeah. No, same.
Anxiety.

Speaker 7 Oh, I was diagnosed with anxiety, OCD tendencies, and coping. So when I feel like my life is out of control, I clear surfaces.
I have to like clear countertops, clean. Yeah.

Speaker 7 And then I was, did I say I was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD?

Speaker 2 Oh, no, no. Yeah.
I was just a kid.

Speaker 7 Were you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's so good. No riddling for me, though.

Speaker 7 I'm always like, I'm not medicated. Yeah.
Mainly because I get pregnant so much.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I, yeah, ADHD and bipolar, which I question, but well you you think you were diagnosed with yeah, and they gave me like a really intense medication and I looked it up and I was like, uh-uh.

Speaker 2 So I'm too scared to do that. I'd rather do natural ways that I can, like ketamine.
I wanted to do, I just didn't want to do the this antipsychotic medication that really has a lot of side effects.

Speaker 7 Like I would have never, I don't know enough about bipolar disorder to know, but I would have never.

Speaker 2 I didn't, that's why I asked her when I got diagnosed. I said, you, you know me better than anyone.
You live with me.

Speaker 8 And I told him I could totally see. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, you can see it. Yeah.
I can.

Speaker 8 I can sometimes, and

Speaker 8 sometimes I've brought up to him, like, do you think you're having a manic episode? Do you think, you know, because there's times where out of nowhere, he can't sleep for months. Yeah.

Speaker 8 And he struggles with it. There's times where he's just angry and doesn't know why.

Speaker 7 But look at everything that you said in the past 50 minutes. Of course you're angry sometimes because I just feel like life has not been fair to you guys, to either one of you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, okay, life's not been fair, but at the same time, look at the blessings that are around.
I mean, we've literally now, but now,

Speaker 7 yeah, now, but I feel like, but just because you have blessings now should not discredit all of the trauma and all of the really shitty experiences you've had as a child.

Speaker 2 That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 8 And so, and I don't blame him as a wife and he's, you know, when he said, I would personally love to try all of the natural resources there are to me. I said, I support you in that.

Speaker 8 Like, I do not blame you at all. Now, I'm different.
Medication saved my life. Absolutely.
Do you know, and I still take it to this day and it absolutely saved my life.

Speaker 8 Um, if I wasn't such a bitch and scared and have anxiety, maybe I tried some ketamine. No, that just scares me because I like, I like going back to anxiety.
I like to be in control of my body.

Speaker 8 When I'm not in control, I freak the fuck out.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, I don't know what you're saying.

Speaker 8 So, I support. I said, that's your own stuff.

Speaker 8 You do what makes you feel good.

Speaker 2 I mean, listen, me and her, we both have, you know, mental things, but and look at how we both differently, we kind of tackle them differently.

Speaker 2 I think that's what's really important is that there's not a one-all for everybody. Like, everyone's got a different path for how they're going to heal their trauma and stuff.

Speaker 2 And so, and it's okay to, to just do things differently, whatever works for you. So, I mean,

Speaker 7 what was your mom like growing up? Did you, was she sort of always a support system for you?

Speaker 2 And did she just wasn't there? She had to work two jobs. Your mom wasn't there.
No, no, no. She had to work two jobs.
I mean, I was like, I was, I, I was like making grilled cheese at five by that.

Speaker 2 Like, I was doing my own thing. Like, I was, you know, she's like trying to provide.

Speaker 7 Yeah. She's going to be mom and dad.

Speaker 2 She, yeah, she just worked uh mortgage and then she did bar on the weekend. So literally seven days a week, she was working, you know, so she was just trying to survive.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 2 She was just trying to survive. So I think for me, it was just, I got, I was by myself constantly.
So that's what kind of what I mean, she's absent. She wasn't like abusive.

Speaker 2 She wasn't like, you know, she's just absent.

Speaker 7 But not because, not by choice, but purely out of not being able to provide for you guys. Yeah.
I watched this clip of someone recently on TikTok and it was this older woman. I'll have to find it.

Speaker 7 Don't even remember her her name. I have to give credit where credit is due.
But she basically said that she wasn't a good mom.

Speaker 7 She wasn't a nurturing mom because she had to be the sole provider of her household.

Speaker 7 And as a single mom and, you know, dad wasn't in the picture, she became, you know, she was absent, not necessarily by choice, but by default.

Speaker 7 And she couldn't be the nurturing parent. She had to be the sole provider.

Speaker 7 And I just think that for sort of all of our situations in some way or another, whether they're an addict or not, all of our, one of our parents has all, like your mom, your mom to some degree was a provider for you, right?

Speaker 2 100%.

Speaker 7 And my mom, you know, she, she struggled a lot with her, her own addictions and her alcoholism, but she also had to be the sole provider because I didn't have a dad.

Speaker 7 So the times that I lived with her, she couldn't have been present if she wanted to be. Right.

Speaker 2 That's kind of where my mom couldn't have been present even if she wanted to be, but I think it's one of those things where it's like, don't you find a little bit, not more or less like, but you, you have, I have a little, a lot of more sympathy for my parents at my age now.

Speaker 2 Even your dad? Oh, yeah. And And through healing, just like where I'm like, wow, like you were literally just a young kid figuring it out too.

Speaker 7 See, I don't have that. I don't share that same experience.
I hold so much resentment for my mom.

Speaker 7 But when other people, like you guys, tell me about your experience with addiction, I have more empathy for people that have addiction that are not directly impacting me.

Speaker 2 Do you think that's to protect yourself, though? Because being angry is a lot easier than being vulnerable.

Speaker 7 Yeah, it's like when I talked to Macy about Ryan and I had so much empathy for him and I have so much empathy for Butch and for your mom because it doesn't directly impact me.

Speaker 7 But my mom, she was supposed to be the provider for me. She was supposed to be the nurturer.
She was supposed to be my safety. So like I don't have that same empathy for her.

Speaker 7 And I think too, because I become a mom and I'm so involved with my kids, it makes me very hard and very resentful.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But

Speaker 2 it's easier. It's easier.

Speaker 7 It's powerful. I know Macy was telling me to go to Al-Anon.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I know I've been told that too, my whole life. I've never gone.
I've never gone.

Speaker 8 You have never gone either.

Speaker 2 We should just go together. Should we just like do it? Let's just do it.

Speaker 7 You guys, Macy, we'll all dive right in.

Speaker 8 Seriously.

Speaker 2 I asked Lux the other day.

Speaker 7 I was talking to him about my mom and he goes, where's your mom in hell? Because he like, I was like, she's dead to me. And he was like, yeah, in hell.

Speaker 2 And I was like, wow.

Speaker 7 Interesting. It's like my anger is seeping down into my kids without even realizing and recognizing.

Speaker 2 So maybe just try to like look at that for a minute. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Your anger is

Speaker 2 funny, but it was

Speaker 7 100%. And it's not just about my mom, right?

Speaker 7 Like I think just as parents in general, like our anger, our happiness, our, you know, every feeling that we feel and we put on display, our kids are soaking that up.

Speaker 2 Oh, yes, they are. So you are careful.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 7 So when Macy was like, go to Al-Anon and she was like telling me about it, I was like, okay, well, luck saying what he said. And now this, I guess I'll go.

Speaker 2 Okay, fine. And they do listen to my.

Speaker 8 They do online ones too. That's what she said.

Speaker 7 She's like, you don't have to put your mic on. You don't have to put your camera on.
You can literally just show up and listen. And she said, it's more for us than it is for them.

Speaker 7 And I thought that was really interesting. I also think it's interesting that, like,

Speaker 7 not only are we tied together by the show and like growing up on TV together, but also our ties to addiction. Like, it has affected all three of us and Macy to some degree.

Speaker 7 And I just think, I don't know, there's just so much power in the ties that we have, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 No, yeah, it does because now we're all raising kids. Yeah.
And now we have to stop it with us.

Speaker 8 Do you ever freak out about that? I don't know how you are on time, but freak out about, oh, I don't care.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 8 Do you ever freak out about one of your children becoming an yes?

Speaker 7 I think about it to the point.

Speaker 2 Do we, yeah, we, yeah, no, and

Speaker 7 my small children, I'm like, I'm actually like nervous.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Like terrified.

Speaker 7 Even when I, when I got my wisdom teeth out, when I've had cosmetic surgery, when I, anything, I don't take medication and I'm, because I'm terrified. Right.

Speaker 7 So like even taking 800 milligrams of ibuprofen freaks me the fuck out. And I just think about my kids, you know, we all try drugs at some point, right? Like I tried LSD and weed.

Speaker 7 I smoked weed, you know, it scares me to think that my kids, I don't have an addictive personality, so I've never really been sort of addicted to anything, but it scares me to know that, genetically speaking, it could be affected my kids, right?

Speaker 7 And um, it freaks me out.

Speaker 7 That's something that I thought of when I started having kids.

Speaker 7 No, we didn't either, we didn't either, you know, in the last I would say five years where I'm really starting to think about what that looks like, especially Isaac.

Speaker 7 He's, I mean, he's I'm not, you know, what I'm not worried about him, I'm not even necessarily worried about Lincoln, it's more the younger ones. Why is that?

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 7 of mental illnesses, okay.

Speaker 7 So, meaning like I have struggled with depression, anxiety, things like that. My mom is diagnosed bipolar.
She has addiction. So I'm, and then also on their dad's side.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Mexican have a history of on their dad's side as well.

Speaker 7 And so I think about the double effect, right? Like it's coming from both sides instead of just one. And so I worry

Speaker 2 more against them. Right.

Speaker 7 Same with our kids. And I know it sounds crazy, but that's why I literally put them in every single sport they asked to play.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 7 Because I'm like, if you guys are so busy getting like your dopamine hits, your serot, what is it, serotonin?

Speaker 2 Serotonin.

Speaker 7 And then adrenaline, if you get that from other things, you won't seek it out somewhere else. You're so scared of them being bored and sort of that

Speaker 7 taking them down the wrong path.

Speaker 2 And I also feel like, well, I think, I think, I think, though, it's interesting to point out that like a lot of addiction doesn't happen because you experiment.

Speaker 2 It happens because you have unresolved trauma yourself.

Speaker 2 So as long as you're vigilant and watching your children and how they act and what they react to and what could possibly be traumatic for them, and you just, you know hand away intervene when you're

Speaker 7 help there's so many questions i have surrounding addiction because my mom came from a really good family and nobody else struggled with addiction so like how did that happen to her interesting happened to her yeah

Speaker 2 but but really but really yeah because you know no addict you're you can't find an addict who is not trying to heal trauma or escape from something something happened yes i don't know what it is i would want i would need to pick ryan's brain because i i think i'm i don't even know if i've ever met him him, but like, what would lead him down to the road?

Speaker 2 Because what I've seen and what I know

Speaker 2 of what I've seen,

Speaker 7 I don't, I only know what I've seen on TV or on social media and I thought that he came from a really great family. So like, what could have happened to you?

Speaker 8 All addicts are trying to numb themselves from something.

Speaker 2 That's what separates you. You don't have an addictive personality because you don't go that route with it.
I think in a way, I feel like it's easier for us as traumatized kids.

Speaker 2 It's easier for us to go, let's just be like, it's easier to escape through trauma.

Speaker 7 I have just never had a thought to be like, let me just just try heroin.

Speaker 2 Yeah, right. No, Freddie, Freddy.

Speaker 7 I'm traumatized. Let me go shoot up.
Like, that just has never computed for me. Yeah, me either.
Even drinking, nothing, like, I've never been a drinker.

Speaker 2 But I think it's interesting. You point out, like, like, for Ryan, for instance, the outside looks really good.
Big house, beautiful family, you know, but there's so many things.

Speaker 2 Like, most of the addicts that she was in rehab with, wealthy, came from amazing families, trust fun kids.

Speaker 7 Like, you don't think it's just like them partying too hard? And it's like, oh, I want to get like do a little bit of a now.

Speaker 8 Sometimes that can happen. Yes.
But I'm telling you, but then what happens with the rehab?

Speaker 2 What I unpack it.

Speaker 7 My best friend from high school is, um,

Speaker 7 you'll have to look it up. It's called Kensington.

Speaker 7 It's a fucked up place by us, and that's where she's at. And I saw an interview on YouTube of someone like interviewing her on Kensington.

Speaker 7 And I just think about the family that she came from, and it was a really great family.

Speaker 7 And like, I've been to her house and like, we had sleepovers, and like, I just can't under, like, I, she never talked about trauma. She never talked about anything ever.

Speaker 7 I never saw anything happen happen to her. So, like, I can't, I think, understand it from that.
And then I think about my mom, and I'm like, I just don't understand it.

Speaker 8 But you know what, also, too, is sometimes people can have trauma and they speak about it. And people look at them and say, How, that's not even that bad.
How's that trauma?

Speaker 8 But to them, it's the most intense thing they've ever experienced in their lives. Yeah, even if it seems small to us, so we're like, what? Really? To them, it's the biggest issue of their lives.

Speaker 8 Or whatever.

Speaker 2 What I think the big misconception about trauma is trauma is not what happened. It's how you reacted to what happened.
It's not the event that happened, it's how you perceive that

Speaker 2 and how you behaved in result of that thing happening. So, like a dog dying, like, oh my gosh, like, people be like, Oh my god, it's a dog, right?

Speaker 8 You're only sick for a four year, four years, but a person could be like, No, that's like trauma, you're indeed

Speaker 8 a person, so it's not trauma's not what happened, it's how that's why in treatment they always say, Don't judge people for their trauma because trauma at the end of the day is trauma, even if it seems small to you, it's big to them.

Speaker 2 And I think comparing trauma is stupid, I think it's no, I don't mean to compare, no, I know

Speaker 7 I don't understand it. So it's really like I have a hard time with it.

Speaker 2 Okay, so are you curious to know?

Speaker 7 Yeah, no, I want to know. Like, I want to know how you got addicted.
Did you get surgery? And then you were on

Speaker 7 Pergo set and then it just like spiraled.

Speaker 2 A body like dependency? Yeah. Because I think opiate's a little different

Speaker 2 ballgame, right? Because that's like literally physically

Speaker 2 your brain saying, hey, we're going to die if you don't get this opiate in you.

Speaker 8 But if you're talking like alcohol, heroin, cocaine, like hardcore drugs, I mean, nine out of 10, I'm like a major intervention lover.

Speaker 8 Every single episode you watch, it's either divorce, it's a sexual abuse, it is like a moment. Mom not having their parents.
It's always linked to trauma. Yeah.
That's so interesting.

Speaker 2 And even the ones that come with great families, something happened.

Speaker 8 Something happened. Something happened.

Speaker 2 That may seem small. So maybe one day.

Speaker 7 So what's not trauma to me was could have been trauma to them.

Speaker 8 But who knows? Maybe one day you might find out what happened to your mom.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 7 But even then, you're like, I'm going to go drink. Or it's like a gradual thing.
Like, I don't.

Speaker 8 It could be gradual for somebody. Yeah.

Speaker 2 but I think it's okay to admit that, hey, you're stronger than your mom, but to be curious enough to know why your mom went that route, but does she even know?

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 maybe not because why would she still be using it, you know? I mean, so obviously, she has unresolved healed things as well.

Speaker 8 And because through my therapy, there was stuff that came out that I was like, wow, I never would have looked at that as trauma, right?

Speaker 7 I think that my whole life was that way. And

Speaker 2 I was just like, oh, this happened to everyone. Yes.

Speaker 8 And yeah, and there were some things where I was like, holy shit, like that is traumatic as hell. And I needed therapy to really realize those things, you know?

Speaker 8 And sometimes our parents, like my mom hasn't, maybe your mom hasn't, but they don't go to therapy to figure it out. What was it for them either?

Speaker 7 So sometimes they've never been to therapy that I know of.

Speaker 2 See, I think what separates us is that we actively are trying to figure this out. And I think staying curious about your own journey and why you do the things you do will lead to healing.

Speaker 2 It's, it's inevitable. You just got to stay curious and not get hardened and not just, you know, label it and let it go.
Right. You got to keep evolving.

Speaker 8 For sure. And also, I think from a young age, I always had a drive of my kids will never have this.
I'm going to, like, I always had that thought process.

Speaker 8 I always wanted to be a mom and I wanted to do things differently. So I just lived by that.
I feel like you're given two paths when you grow up in households like us.

Speaker 8 It's either I go down the same path or worse as them, or I do completely opposite. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't, I think.

Speaker 7 Luckily, I just didn't get the addictive gene because otherwise I think I would have, I had access to all this stuff. Right.

Speaker 2 And I just,

Speaker 7 I was so traumatized by how my mom was as a person when she was under the influence that I was just repulsed me more than

Speaker 7 I don't even know how to. And I think also just like being around people who took me in when my mom was not in her best state of mind was helpful.

Speaker 2 But I'm glad that we got to talk about it. Yeah, me too.

Speaker 7 It feels like therapy.

Speaker 2 It does. It does.
You have to give you like therapy, right?

Speaker 7 So, where can people find your podcast and where can people find you on social media?

Speaker 2 Kate and Ty Break It Down.

Speaker 8 It's all of our social medias: TikTok, Instagram, Twitter,

Speaker 8 anywhere. And

Speaker 2 Spotify, Apple, anywhere you look at it.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 7 Well, thanks for coming on Merley Famous. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 Thanks for having us.

Speaker 15 All right, I may not be as funny as Nikki Glazer.

Speaker 16 I want to pitch a series of like calendars where men are just crying in a therapist's office or punching a pillow and working out their anger towards their dad.

Speaker 15 But I do have my moments. I actually have full conversations with the moon.

Speaker 17 Yes.

Speaker 15 I try to keep it pretty balanced on this podcast. A little fun dance between comedy, therapy, self-medicating.
Oh, and sorry, if you haven't guessed.

Speaker 15 Hi, I'm Caitlin Bristow, host of Off the Vine Podcast, where we like to just keep things loose and keep them raw and keep them real, like when we have listeners call in and give confessions.

Speaker 18 And then that glass of wine progressed into me becoming a unicorn for them.

Speaker 15 But we do, and I promise you this, try to keep it honest and vulnerable. So jump on the wagon, not off, grab your favorite bottle of wine, preferably Spade and Sparrows, and join the Vinos.

Speaker 15 Have yourself a time. The Off the Vine podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts.

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