Alice Feeney Is Barely Famous

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Speaker 4 Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.

Speaker 4 It's your fae villain, Kale Wower. Kalwower.
And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Speaker 4 All right, Alice, welcome to Barely Famous Podcast. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 4 And you said this was your first podcast. Yes.
This is your first podcast. I'm very excited about that.

Speaker 4 I have been so immersed into the book world that I'm so excited that you agreed to come on.

Speaker 2 I just think it's a great podcast. I listened.
It's the first podcast I've listened to all the way through. I was hooked.
I thought

Speaker 2 I have been missing out. I'm basically an old lady trapped in a slightly younger woman's body.
And this, what have I been doing all this time? This is the place to be.

Speaker 4 It's better late than never, right? Definitely.

Speaker 4 So we're here to talk about Beautiful, Ugly, your new book and if you're gonna get this on amazon you're gonna have to pre-order it for the next launch because it's sold out yes it's sold out already i can't believe it it's launch day yes one day in what an amazing problem to have what a lovely how do you feel I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 This book was so long in the making and I loved writing this one. You know, I've written seven, I've had seven books published now.
I've written a few more that have not been published.

Speaker 2 But for it to finally be out in the world just feels like magic.

Speaker 2 And I love that readers can finally enjoy enjoy this story about grady green honestly though the i even if i didn't have you here today i would have bought this book solely for the cover because it's beautiful the cover is stunning and it has like a little a little um shimmer to it i absolutely love it i love the little like rip through here i think it's so good they've done such a terrific job i love it and i love that this is the first time i have the same cover everywhere so the same cover in america will be in england

Speaker 2 it's in australia it's in india everywhere it's um the same cover coming out.

Speaker 4 So why do you know what the reasoning is for different covers in different countries?

Speaker 2 I asked for it to be the same cover everywhere this time. I did.
I just fell in love with it. It was designed for the American cover and I thought it was so perfect for the book.

Speaker 2 So beautiful, so not ugly at all, actually, for a book called Beautiful, Ugly, just beautiful. And I thought it'd be fun to have the same cover everywhere this time around.

Speaker 2 And I love actually seeing all the different covers in different countries. We're in 40 countries now and it's so fun.

Speaker 2 You know, a box arrives at the house and I open it like a kid at Christmas going, oh my goodness, which one is this?

Speaker 2 But it's also really fun, I think, because so many readers now are on social media and they'll all say, oh no, I wish I could get this cover. I wish I could get the other cover.

Speaker 2 Or if only I could have the British version. And this time everyone can enjoy the same one and we can all share and talk about the same book.

Speaker 4 There is something special too, though, about collecting the same book from different countries. I just never understood what the reasoning was.
Or is there no rhyme or reason? They just do it.

Speaker 2 I think people just do it. I think they fall in love with a story and they want every different edition of the same story.

Speaker 2 And why not? It is fun seeing them all on the shelf together.

Speaker 4 I absolutely love that. And so, do you get a say in how this gets

Speaker 4 designed? Because I've talked to other authors on the podcast and they say they have nothing to do with the cover, but you get, you sort of got a say, right?

Speaker 4 Like you were like, I want the same thing across the board.

Speaker 2 I said I wanted the same thing this time and I said, please, could we have foil? I think I'm secretly a magpie. I like shiny things.
And not only did they give me foil, they gave me holographic foil.

Speaker 2 I think it's the best thing ever. I love my publishers.

Speaker 2 So it's so pretty. And there are other pretty things inside as well.

Speaker 2 I drew a map

Speaker 2 when I handed the book in.

Speaker 2 Every year I like to surprise them with something. Sometimes I have little illustrations.
This year I had a map.

Speaker 2 And even my editor was, you know, very nice on the phone, but she said, just to clarify, you want a map at the start of a thriller.

Speaker 2 Because normally you might find them in fantasy books. And I thought, yes, why not?

Speaker 2 I want I want everyone to picture the Isle of Amberly so they said yes but then they called me back and said we'll do it but we'll get a professional artist to do it okay so that they or not my version but that's okay my version is not nearly as good as the beautiful version inside the book so I think it was a good call that's so funny because when my friend who you were commenting on had tab this is Emily's copy and she tabbed it all and she's like if she could sign this one she opened it and she said

Speaker 4 is this fantasy and I said I don't think so I don't don't think Alice writes fantasy that I'm aware of.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, I don't. They're all quite dark and twisty.
I think I write sometimes, the books are quite different from each other.

Speaker 2 Daisy Darker, for example, felt very different to this book. I think if people enjoyed Rock, Paper, Scissors.
I was just about to say that. Oh,

Speaker 2 I feel like this one.

Speaker 4 I don't know if you have this same experience when you read, but sometimes like you'll remember the story, but maybe not always the characters' names.

Speaker 4 And so I was like, wait a minute. So when I started reading it, I was like, okay, if

Speaker 4 I I thought maybe Henry, I forgot Henry's name. And I was like, wait, is this the same cabin from Rock, Paper, Scissors? And then with the red jacket.
So I was like, hold on.

Speaker 4 So I had to go back and see, but it's not the same. But if you like Rock, Paper, Scissors, you will love Beautiful, Ugly.

Speaker 2 You will absolutely love it. They've definitely got a few things in common.
We've got Scotland again. Yep.
We've got, it's about a writer again who disappears to Scotland.

Speaker 2 And of course, there's a dog.

Speaker 2 And I always feel very sorry for my mother-in-law, who is one of my number one fans, because I keep writing about unhappy marriages and I'm actually very happily married but when when I write about authors who have a black Labrador and I have a black Labrador who go to Scotland to write and I go to Scotland to write right I know that as soon as it's UK publication day she'll be on the phone saying is my son okay um so so yes it's always it's always fun when people think is she the character in this book um uh but no i'm not I'm not Grady Greene.

Speaker 4 But maybe some parts of you are in the characters?

Speaker 2 Oh, yes. There are definitely a few bits bits of me sprinkled between the pages in this one in a way that I almost didn't realise when I was writing it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it was actually only when we were doing the audiobook, which came so much later after the edits. A few months had gone by.
I was working on another book by then.

Speaker 2 And I was listening to Richard Armitage narrate the audiobook. And he did a terrific job, by the way.
Sure.

Speaker 2 There are parts where I feel like we've got a cast of twenty people because Richard can be an elderly Scottish woman, Richard can be a 40-year-old man, Richard can be an East End pub landlord, and you think you're listening to it.

Speaker 2 He's terrific, and he sounds like he's having fun when he's doing it.

Speaker 2 Um, but there are a few bits when I was listening to the audiobook where I thought, crikey, yeah, that that's very similar to things that have happened to me as an author.

Speaker 2 I wonder where I got that idea from. So, um, there are a few bits like that.

Speaker 4 When you walked into you know, the space to podcast, you said something along the lines of not having an Uber in your head, right? Like, you just don't do Uber.

Speaker 2 I don't do Uber, no.

Speaker 4 There is no Uber on Amberley.

Speaker 2 No, I think Amberly sounds like a perfect place.

Speaker 2 And unfortunately, it's just in my head, but

Speaker 2 it's this place where you're a little bit cut off, but in a nice way, I think. Not everybody in the book would agree with me.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, it probably sounds like my worst nightmare, not having Uber when I need it. I like the idea of like the quiet, secluded place, but it also, the whole plot, or I guess the setting.

Speaker 4 It's not too far off, right? Like it doesn't sound so outlandish that it couldn't be true,

Speaker 4 which is what I like about it.

Speaker 2 And there are tiny islands in the Scottish Hebrides that are a little bit like Amberley, where some of the ideas came from, where there really is just a ferry twice a week.

Speaker 2 And if you miss it, or if there's a storm, you're not getting on and off the island. And the same with the doctor.
I remember reading about this tiny island where the doctor only visits on Tuesdays.

Speaker 2 Imagine that. You can only get ill on a Tuesday or you're going to be in big trouble.

Speaker 2 But I love these tiny places where there's this real sense of community.

Speaker 2 But if it's not something you're used to, or or if you're someone who's quite private it could be your worst nightmare because rural community-based places that are in the middle of nowhere are sometimes not the isolated havens that you think they are everyone knows everyone and everyone knows everyone else's business and everyone probably knows more about you than you realize

Speaker 4 and i think in the book if i remember correctly it was 25 people on the island yes yeah i could not imagine like it sounds good in theory but then when you need something and you have to walk two miles or one mile to get to the nearest road to be picked up to even get to a ferry, I don't know.

Speaker 4 It sounds like the perfect plot and the perfect setting for a thriller, which it is. Yes.
So I love that. Oh, thank you.

Speaker 4 So you worked as a journalist before becoming an author. So what was that transition like?

Speaker 2 It was really interesting and very different. So I went from working in the middle of the world's busiest newsroom at the BBC in London to working all day in my shed with my dog.

Speaker 2 So I had so many people that I was working with, hundreds of people within the newsroom, to just me and my dog. It was very different, but I dreamed of being an author for so long.

Speaker 2 It took me a really long time. I spent almost 10 years writing books, sending them off, collecting multiple rejection letters.

Speaker 2 I just could not get an agent. And sometimes the rejection letters would be really lovely.
very polite no's. How do you okay?

Speaker 4 I was going to say, what do you, what does, what does lovely mean? Because I feel like a no

Speaker 4 kind of terrifying sometimes.

Speaker 2 They would say that they liked the book, but it wasn't quite right for them. Or they enjoyed it, but it wasn't the right book to try and launch a new author.
And could I maybe send them my next book?

Speaker 2 And my favourite ever rejection came from a really lovely agent who I did not know, who I had submitted one book to, who wrote me this, I think, lovely rejection letter.

Speaker 2 But at the end, she said, I think you can do better. And I remember feeling a little bit beaten up because, you know, rejection is hard.
But also I thought, well, how do you know? You don't know me.

Speaker 2 Maybe this is as good as I've got. I've been trying for years to do this.
But something about that particular letter made me think, yeah, I can and I will. And then I'll send another book to you.

Speaker 2 And by the time I actually managed to get published, she had retired. That's how long it took me.
But she was so kind and she remembered me.

Speaker 2 And she actually got in touch when I did my first first deal to say I thought you'd do this one day so so it's funny how rejection sometimes can be a good thing you know it just it makes you want to try even harder to get that thing that you've always dreamed of and eventually I wrote a book called sometimes I lie and then everything changed everything changed I just read it um not too long ago but

Speaker 2 that is so interesting because I I just feel like after a couple of no's, I would have just said, okay, I guess this isn't for me, but for some reason for you, it just propelled you to work even harder i think i've just always had this slight obsession with stories okay even as a child sure you know if the real world felt too loud or too dark i would hide inside a book and i would read a book and i think for me even though now i'm a lot older i'm the same in that way i still hide inside a story if i think the world is too loud and for me the world is always a little bit too loud, especially now.

Speaker 2 So I've gone from hiding inside books by reading them to reading them and writing them. But it's the same with all forms of escapism in terms of stories.
I love watching TV shows.

Speaker 2 I love watching movies. And I think we all need that sometimes, just to disappear down the rabbit hole to get away from reality.

Speaker 4 And that's not too far off from Grady Green, because Grady Green says that he pushed away, he basically pushed away. all these relationships

Speaker 2 um because he was writing yes obsessed with his books and i have definitely gone through phases in my career this is book seven for me and I've just handed in book eight

Speaker 2 which was really scary. It's always so scary handing in a new book

Speaker 2 but I remember with his and hers in particular I spent nearly a year writing a book

Speaker 2 and then and I loved the book and then I decided that I couldn't let anybody read it. There was something wrong with it and I didn't know what was wrong with it but I'm very secretive as an author.

Speaker 2 I don't tell anyone even my agents my publishers nobody knows what I'm writing until I finish the book so I sent an email to my agent. I remember I was in Wales.
I was in a horrible Airbnb.

Speaker 2 It stank of damp. There was a terrible storm.
There were dead seals on the beach. It was a really horrible trip.

Speaker 2 And then I sat in the window of this horrible Airbnb writing an email to my agent saying, I'm so sorry. I feel like I've let you and everyone down.
I can't send the book in. And he said, just send it.

Speaker 2 I'm sure it's not as bad as you think. And I said, no, there's something wrong.
But don't worry. I'm going to write another one.
And he said, let me talk to your publishers.

Speaker 2 We can push back the deadline. It's going to to be fine.
I said, No, no, no, the whole book is in my head, I just need to write it. I can do it in three months.

Speaker 2 And I always do three drafts before anyone reads it. So, I did three drafts in three months, and I hit send, which is as terrifying now as it was then.

Speaker 2 And everyone loved the book, and that book was his and hers, which is my best-behaved book. What is best-behaved? Um, it just wrote itself.

Speaker 2 Um, I just sat in the shed with my dog, I had no social life whatsoever for three months, but I got the book done. And I think those are my Grady Green moments when everything else just stops.

Speaker 2 Life stops. The house turns into a giant mess.
My hair, I've got naturally very curly hair. In situations like that, it grows sideways.
There'll be robins nesting in the background.

Speaker 2 So I understand Grady's obsession with when you get a story in your head and you have to write it.

Speaker 2 So that was definitely his and hers for me.

Speaker 2 And the badly behaved book, the one I couldn't figure out how to fix, I came back to it maybe a year later and I could see what was wrong finally but I didn't know how to fix it so I wrote a book called Rock Paper Scissors then I came back to the naughty one again and I read it again and now I knew how to fix it and the solution was really actually very simple I just needed to delete 80,000 words

Speaker 2 so simple no big deal just 90% of the book yeah I mean my books tend to be about 80 85 so I had 5,000 left so that felt quite positive something to work with it was something at least something to the starting point was there.

Speaker 2 And I wrote the book again. Same book, same story, same characters.
But this time it worked, and that was Daisy Darker.

Speaker 2 So all of the books have behaved differently, but sometimes you do, I think, as an author, get a little bit obsessed with the story, the characters. I mean, I hear them in my head.

Speaker 2 They're talking to me now without wishing to sound too crazy. But yeah.
Do you remember them?

Speaker 2 Yes. They feel like family because in some ways I spend more time with the characters than I do with anyone real in my life.
Sure. Um, they're there all the time, they wake me up at 3 a.m.

Speaker 4 And you're like, hold on, I have to type this really quick, or it's gonna be out of my brain.

Speaker 4 When you said that, the badly behaved one, when you said then you wrote Rock, Paper, Scissors, I thought you were gonna say that Rock, Paper, Scissors was the badly behaved one.

Speaker 4 Rock, Paper, Scissors is one of my favorite

Speaker 4 thriller suspense novels because it is so different than any other one that I've read. Thank you.
And it was our book club of the month pick in, I think, November. It was last year.

Speaker 4 Was obsessed with the ending because I do not like books that explain everything at the end and give you a play-by-play of what it is that happened.

Speaker 4 It's like you're supposed to figure that out on your own, like kind of deduce down what you want. And so some people love it and some people hate it.
I loved it.

Speaker 2 I ate it up. It was so good.
Thank you. It was another one where I submitted the book and this time I had little drawings at the top of the chapters.
Do you remember?

Speaker 4 Yeah, like the little sketches.

Speaker 2 Yes, every character had their own little

Speaker 2 drawing at the top. It's so funny.
Again, not normal for a thriller, but I like to do things a little bit differently. Yeah.

Speaker 4 No, and I love, I mean, the same thing for this because you have the little map. Yeah.
And I love it. I got the PR box from Beautiful Ugly and I about died because it has like the painting with the

Speaker 4 not the painting, the pottery.

Speaker 2 The pottery. And the Bog Myrtle tea.
I love my team. They come up with all these brilliant, fun things.
It's such a great thing. It's like Christmas.
They send me these gifts.

Speaker 2 They send me a magic eight ball because that was in the book too.

Speaker 2 I feel like I must add, you know, if there's something I want as a present, I need to put it in the next book so that the lovely team will get it for you.

Speaker 2 We'll make up something for a press kit and send me one.

Speaker 4 That's so funny. So for, when you're describing the first book that you wrote, did you ever come back to it and publish it? The first book that you wrote, did it ever get published?

Speaker 4 Or would you ever go back to it to try to publish it?

Speaker 2 Oh, it's terrible. Is it public? I mean, thank goodness it didn't get published.

Speaker 2 I just think.

Speaker 4 That's so funny, though. I talked to Frida McFadden a couple weeks ago, and she was telling me about how she had to redo an entire book.
She started.

Speaker 4 It was called Suicide Med, and then she changed it years and years and years and years later.

Speaker 2 Now, I told you I've only listened to one podcast. That was the one.
That is the one. So where she's talking about the butt eye.

Speaker 2 The butt eye. I mean, I had to pause it and think, did I misunderstand? No.
No, no. You did it.
I mean, I just thought that was the best writer story I've ever heard ever. I loved that.
I love that.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, all respect to her. That's fantastic.
So maybe I didn't have a butt eye in my first book. I sort of wish I did because it's a brilliant story, isn't it? It's good for a story.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 2 No, it was

Speaker 2 a bit too happy, if I'm honest. Okay.
I think that I'm I think I prefer writing and reading and watching quite dark and twisty stories. I think I was scared of doing that.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And I think I was scared that perhaps I wasn't clever enough to do that. So in all ways,

Speaker 2 well, I think when you're growing up, for me, I imagined authors as these supreme magical beings. That's how I feel.
You know,

Speaker 2 they were these magicians of words. And so, although it was something I would have loved to have become, I couldn't imagine how someone like me could be.

Speaker 2 And even, you know, people would say,

Speaker 2 even when I wanted to work for the BBC, people would say, you'll never work at the BBC.

Speaker 2 How would someone like you work at the BBC? So it was,

Speaker 2 there were these dreams of mine that seemed so difficult to achieve. And yet, I don't know, I think there's something about me.

Speaker 2 When someone tells me I can't do something, it makes me really, really want to do it even more.

Speaker 2 And I felt like that about journalism. And I felt like that about becoming an author, but I was just always scared that I wasn't.

Speaker 2 good enough and even just now you know very recently I submitted book eight you would think that I might have more confidence now but I don't.

Speaker 2 When I send that novel in for the first time, it's pure terror that I experience that I'm scared that it isn't good enough or that I might let people down.

Speaker 2 Because let's face it, there are lots of brilliant books in the world. I don't want to inflict a bad one on anybody.

Speaker 4 No, no, I don't think anyone would think that your books are bad. I also, I mean, they speak for themselves.
You go on Barnes and Noble, and I think you said that it's listed as a bestseller already.

Speaker 2 It is, which is incredible.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I've never seen so far in my, you know, reading journey, I have never seen on published day the book be out of stock on Amazon.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is incredible. It's, um, it blows my mind to know that there are so many people around the world reading books that I've written in my shed.

Speaker 4 Oh, my hairstylist was like, I cannot wait to talk about rock, paper, scissors with you. We have to talk about the ending when I see you.
Like that we are having conversations about your book.

Speaker 2 I guess I spend so much time on my own. Yeah.
that I don't always understand what is going on in the outside world to do with the books.

Speaker 2 I really do only come out for two or three weeks to do tour once a year and then I go back to the shed again.

Speaker 2 I'm a bit of a hermit. I suppose I am a bit like Grady Green in that way too.
But it's always a surprise. You know, when we go to events and there are so many people.

Speaker 2 I remember we went to an event in St. Louis a couple of years ago and we arrived and my lovely publicist Claire, who is here today,

Speaker 2 said to the lady when we arrived, is anyone here yet? And she said, Yes, don't worry, we've already got 20 people. And I thought, oh, thank goodness.

Speaker 2 You know, everyone, as authors, you're always scared of turning up to an event, and either nobody's there, or one man and his dog are there, or someone turns up and it turns out really they wanted to meet Ruth Ware and they thought I was her and they're disappointed.

Speaker 2 It's never happened yet, but it might. You never know, do you know?

Speaker 2 Did she comment on the book? No, no, no, I don't think she did. But we got lots of other lovely comments.
But this event where they said there's 20 people, I was so relieved.

Speaker 2 And it turned out I hadn't heard her. She said there's already already 220 people.
And so when we walked in, I was so confused.

Speaker 2 I thought maybe they turned up for another author and that they'd be disappointed it was me. But then they all held up my books and they really were there to see me.
And

Speaker 2 this, this year, we've got events where there are over 400 people coming along. And I just, I think it's amazing.

Speaker 4 Oh, I bought tickets for your event as soon as I saw it.

Speaker 2 I just can't believe it.

Speaker 4 I said, oh, we're going.

Speaker 2 I still sometimes think maybe this is a dream.

Speaker 2 Nope.

Speaker 4 Somebody needs to pinch you because it's very real.

Speaker 2 It's very real.

Speaker 2 I always remember with Sometimes I Lie, my first book that was published. The first ever newspaper review of the book got the names in a muddle.

Speaker 2 So the book was about a character called Amber Reynolds who is in a coma. But the newspaper review, the first one I'd ever seen of my writing, didn't say Amber Reynolds.

Speaker 2 It said, this book is by Amber Reynolds and it's about Alice Feeney who is in a coma. And I think since then, I've wondered, am I?

Speaker 2 Am I just making, am I lying in a hospital room somewhere with machines keeping me? Because how else did I get an agent and publishers and all these wonderful things? They mixed up the names.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Did you clip out the article? Did you have that? Oh, yes.
You framed it. I kept it anyway.
It was the first one, yes. That's really fun.

Speaker 4 I mean, that's just as good as Frida's story about the butt eye.

Speaker 2 Is it? Yeah, that's good. Okay, so I've got to say, I'm still jealous of the butt eye, but you know.

Speaker 4 You should film something for TikTok or Instagram about that.

Speaker 2 My first ever.

Speaker 4 Because that is funny. I mean, at least it made it in the article, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. And that's what's most important.

Speaker 4 It's It's like, we're featuring the work.

Speaker 2 All publicity is good publicity, according to my publicists. So here we are.
She's like, this is good. This is fine.

Speaker 2 From

Speaker 4 England? Yes. Okay, so is TikTok big over there?

Speaker 2 Well, now, you know how we've been talking about Uber and podcasts. TikTok is a bit of a mystery to me as well.
Oh, it is. I understand what it is.
It's videos on the phone. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I did look at it once. It made my brain melt a little bit, I think.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it'll definitely change the the way that you think about, like,

Speaker 4 shorten your attention span. Yes.
But I only bring it up because I think that Book Talk partially inspired me to read.

Speaker 4 And so I just was going to want, I was going to ask you about how.

Speaker 2 I love that on

Speaker 2 Instagram is the one I do do a little bit. I like Instagram.
Pretty pictures. I'm there for it all day long.

Speaker 2 But sometimes people will tag things on Instagram and they'll say that it's on BookTalk as well. And I know that Rock, Paper, Scissors was a book of Book Talk, which sounds very fun.

Speaker 2 Yes, it went viral. that's that's incredible isn't it again amazing things

Speaker 4 i have for my book club this book talk sticker that i

Speaker 4 did that i that's my book talk sticker i'm obsessed because i'll go look for recommendations and if it's on book talk then you it has to be good right if you thought that book talk book talk contributed to you know maybe new author success or or anything like that.

Speaker 4 I know that Barnes ⁇ Noble is opening a bunch of new stores by the end of this year. And I thought that maybe,

Speaker 4 I don't know this for sure, but maybe BookTalk contributes to that a little bit.

Speaker 2 I think all reading is good reading. Yeah, absolutely.
Sometimes I think there can be some snobbery in this business. And I think if people are reading, to me, that's fantastic.

Speaker 2 And however they can hear about books and however we can spread the word about books is also fantastic. And I love that I have a lot of young readers

Speaker 2 who are much cleverer at all this technical stuff than I am, but sometimes very young.

Speaker 2 I was at an event in Macedonia last year, and there was a 12-year-old in the audience with all of my books and came up to sign them at the end of the event.

Speaker 2 And I did wonder if 12 was a little bit a smidgen, a smidgen too young perhaps to be reading my books.

Speaker 2 But then it reminded me that I used to read Stephen King at that age, and I think I sort of turned out okay.

Speaker 2 I think you turned out okay. But yes, it was interesting meeting that 12-year-old actually changed the ending of this book.

Speaker 2 Really? Yes. In what way?

Speaker 2 I really loved her. I loved her energy.
I loved how

Speaker 2 enthusiastic she was about all reading. It makes me really happy when children are reading.
I get so scared that everyone is living inside screens these days, including me.

Speaker 2 I spend too long looking at screens for everything.

Speaker 2 So to see this kid who is so into her books and so eloquent about stories and what they meant to her and how they had helped her and changed her life just made me so happy.

Speaker 2 And I was worried she might misinterpret how I wanted the ending to be read, how I wanted people to feel about the women

Speaker 2 on the island. Did you see me pause there to try and avoid spoilers? No spoilers here.
It's so tricksy because I know what happens.

Speaker 2 But yeah, so I did. I tweaked the ending a little bit because of meeting a reader who I'm mentioning because she was talking about TikTok.
So clearly

Speaker 2 it's a big thing for young readers, especially out there. And I think anything that spreads the word about good books is a great thing.

Speaker 2 It would be cool if 10 years from now you see her writing her own books yes wouldn't it and maybe you were the inspiration behind her i just i i find it so fascinating meeting people you know we had our first uh event last night and one of the readers who came along made me a hat to match the book she she knitted an actual beautiful ugly hat in the same colors and things like that just blow my mind or sometimes people turn up with lucky kit kats to the events which is just i've had kit kats from every country and they all really they all taste different so you eat them they all taste good oh yes she's like like i'm eating all the cake cats all of the cake cats

Speaker 4 yes i absolutely love this though like i think that you are inspiring young readers i i can't i don't know that 12 is too young i'd probably i have an 11 year old i have a 15 year old

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Speaker 4 Are we allowed to talk about the Netflix?

Speaker 2 Oh, yes. Okay.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 So his and hers is going to be a Netflix movie or show?

Speaker 2 Movie show this summer. It'll be at the filming is all done and it'll be on our screens this summer, which is just incredibly exciting.
I still can't quite believe that's true either.

Speaker 4 I can't believe that's an incredible.

Speaker 4 And I also just think that it's so nice to see all of the, you know, Hulu, Netflix wanting to do the adaptations to books now because so many people are reading these books.

Speaker 4 We want to see them on our screens. Yes.
And sometimes you read books and you're like, I've really liked this, but it could be better on a screen.

Speaker 2 Yes, and I know what you mean. I love it.
I mean, I love reading books like this. I love watching TV shows like this.
I love watching films like this. I feel like I can't get enough.

Speaker 2 And I think there are lots of other people out there who feel the same. You know, we've got this desire for some reason.

Speaker 2 We're all obsessed with these dark, twisty stories, and we love playing the game of who did it and trying to solve the mystery. So, no, it's been a fantastic experience.

Speaker 2 A few of my books have been optioned, but that's the first one. This is the first one that's actually been filmed.

Speaker 2 And I got to visit the set and my characters who've lived inside my head for years came to life and we're walking and talking his and hers is the first one that you published it wasn't book number three book number three book number three it was the well-behaved one that was three months in the making and you were like that's why i got optioned first yes because it was such a well-behaved book child um no it's fantastic and the the tv show is actually very true to the book um they've done the most incredible job i think the scripts are fantastic there's a twist or two in there that i wish i'd written um i sort of want to go back and do it another version because it's so clever what they've done and uh the whole cast were just fan fantastic um john burnthor who was in the walking dead and more recently the bear he's jack harper and i confess my eyes leaked a little bit the first time he was walking towards me because for me now he is forever jack yeah and so to see jack come to life and to see all these scenes where he's saying things that I wrote and oh it was just there's nothing like it.

Speaker 2 They were so sweet to me. It was my birthday while we were there.
And they made a birthday cake. They all sang happy birthday.

Speaker 2 I really loved the school uniforms in the show for the school that's called St. Hilary's.
And I told the costume designer, the uniform is so similar to how it was on my head.

Speaker 2 So they made me a uniform to fit me. I've got my own St.
Hilary's school uniform to take home.

Speaker 2 No, I loved it. And they gave me a friendship, a friendship bracelet when I first arrived, which for anyone who's read the book, it's actually a bad sign.

Speaker 2 But I'm still here. I'm still here.

Speaker 2 It's just for show business. It's just a nice little touch.
So, no, I've had such a fantastic experience and I can't wait for people to see it.

Speaker 4 So when you get optioned for a movie or a TV show, do you end up getting to choose whether it's a movie or TV show? Or is that sort of up to like the director based on the script?

Speaker 4 Because I did have Colleen Hoover on and she was telling me how, you know, if she got a movie for one of her books, you know, you go from 300 pages pages to a 100-page script for a movie.

Speaker 4 And so it's a little bit different where I, and I don't know this for sure because she didn't say that, but for a TV show, you have a little bit more time.

Speaker 2 Yes, it's almost the other way around. You're almost trying to expand the story in certain ways, but also find neat little ways to break it into, say, six or eight episodes.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And I think my books lend themselves quite well to that because I like having lots of twists. So there are twists to choose from in terms of, you know, having a nice cliffhanger to end an episode on.

Speaker 2 Hopefully so the people want to watch the next one straight away but how it's always worked for me is that um the new book will go out um to the industry before it gets published and then um I've been very lucky, Touchwood.

Speaker 2 We always seem to have quite a few people interested, so I'll meet with different people.

Speaker 2 And sometimes they might want to make a movie, or they might want to make a T V show, but I'll always base it more on the people, the producer, or the sometimes it'd been an actor who has come forward with the offer.

Speaker 2 And for me, me, I just want them to love the book and look after it the same way that I would. You know, the books are my children.
I always want them to be in safe hands.

Speaker 2 So I've only ever said yes to people who I think are going to do a good job of it.

Speaker 2 And they all have. You know, everyone I've worked with has just been so fantastic.
And

Speaker 2 we've got his and hers coming out this summer, but we've also got Sometimes I Lie in the pipeline.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I heard that or not.

Speaker 2 I always worry about what sequence was next. That's why I need to see what's going on.
I look at Claire because I don't know if it's not out yet.

Speaker 2 No, it's okay. It's okay.
So I think we've had a press release about the early stages of that. So it's a producer called Tommy Harper who did Top Gun Maverick.
Oh, okay. And I did hear this.

Speaker 2 And Wednesday, and he just did Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, and he's working with a couple of people in the UK as well.

Speaker 2 And so that's going out soon. So there are things I can't say about it.
Of course, of course. Again, amazing scripts.
And all of these people have been honestly such fun to work with.

Speaker 2 It's been a really pleasant experience for me. So I'm all for adaptations.

Speaker 4 So you said that the manuscript goes out to these people?

Speaker 2 Goes out to lots of different people. And then if producers or actors.

Speaker 4 Before it hits the public. Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, wow.

Speaker 4 I always wondered that part because I don't know, you know, if sometimes the book will come out and then a show or movie won't come out for years and years.

Speaker 4 So I didn't know if it would, you know, they pick it up after all the buzz that it gets.

Speaker 2 There are so many secrets. Nobody told me before I became an author that you had to keep so many secrets.

Speaker 2 So, there is lovely, beautiful, ugly screen-shaped news as well that I'm not allowed to share yet. For example,

Speaker 2 but yes, I'm sure one day we're going to see Grady Green on screen too, and I can't wait.

Speaker 4 If you need anyone to make a cameo, I'm available. Excellent.
So, I can be

Speaker 4 anybody you want in this book.

Speaker 2 You could have a podcast. Perfect.
You could have a podcast

Speaker 2 on the Isle of Amberly. Perfect.
I love that idea.

Speaker 4 That's so funny. So, I Know Who You Are was written, and well, let me not say written, but it was published in 2019.
Will we see that on our big screens anywhere?

Speaker 2 I don't think so. I've always said no.
Okay, I don't really know why. I just never particularly wanted to see that story on screen.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And the only other book that I've always said no to in terms of screen adaptations so far is Daisy Darker. I think because I love her too much.

Speaker 4 You don't want to share her with the screen?

Speaker 2 Daisy honestly felt like family to me and I remember when we went to the printers I cried partly because it's such a beautiful book and I was so happy to see it finally published but also because it if you're at the printers you can't do any more edits you know it's too late yeah so I was really saying goodbye to Daisy after five years of writing her finally and um I felt really sad about it so I think one day I hope Daisy Darker would be made into a TV show or a movie, but it would have to be set in the UK.

Speaker 2 It would have to be true, very trueish, I think, to the story. Whereas for some of my books, I think it's more about the characters and the story.

Speaker 2 And you could almost set it anywhere if you wanted to.

Speaker 2 With Beautiful, Ugly, for me, Scotland almost played a... a character in itself in

Speaker 2 Scotland. I think the honest truth is because I go there every year I'm just obsessed with the place.
I think if there's a more beautiful place in the world, I've yet to find it.

Speaker 2 It's so unspoilt. It's so rugged and beautiful and perfect.
And you can walk for miles and miles for hours with your dog.

Speaker 2 I am so much like Grady. Every time I say something to you about the book, I think, oh gosh, yes, we have that in common too.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I think it's just this magical, magical place for me. And I've had so many happy things happen to me in Scotland that I now feel like it's just linked to my writing.

Speaker 2 You know, I finished writing Sometimes I Lie in Scotland and then I finally got an agent. I remember being up in Scotland in a terrible snowstorm.
We really shouldn't have travelled. It was so unsafe.

Speaker 2 Nobody else was on the roads. We drove for eight hours from London up to Scotland.
We

Speaker 2 ended up arriving at this very rural house that we'd rented that was honestly so creepy and in the middle of nowhere. We went inside the house.
There was no water.

Speaker 2 The pipes were frozen because of the storm. There was no power.
There was nothing. We thought maybe we should get back in the car.
The car was totally snowed in, couldn't leave.

Speaker 2 So we thought, we'll make the most of it. You know, we'll, we'll light a fire, we'll open some wine.
It sounds like rattle, paper, scissors. Yes.

Speaker 2 And then just before bedtime, there was a face in the window. And I've never screamed so loud.
We were nowhere near anyone. We were in the middle of a valley.

Speaker 2 And in real life, it was just a caretaker who came to check that we were okay because everyone thought we were crazy still going to this house when there was a terrible storm.

Speaker 4 But why did they go to the window?

Speaker 2 Well, exactly, because

Speaker 2 apparently he said, oh, I knocked on the door and you didn't hear me. But I felt like I was in a horror film.

Speaker 2 But, you know, then my imagination turned it into rock, paper, scissors. So again, Scotland delivered this amazing story for me.
And I've had so many happy experiences like that.

Speaker 2 I feel like it inspires stories in my head. I feel like I get so much writing done when I'm there.
It's like the speed increases by double.

Speaker 2 so um no i'm just in love with the place so if i sit for a year writing about it it means i get to be there even when i'm not i think that's that's part of it too i've never been to scotland but i would absolutely now i want to go now we have to use now we have to go

Speaker 4 okay and then i know who you are did i say i know who you are yes okay daisy darker you said you don't really want to bring on screen right now that's okay i I'm excited for rock, paper, scissors.

Speaker 2 Is that going to come out? One day, I hope. Yeah.
It's very slow. I feel like.

Speaker 4 What is the book?

Speaker 2 No, no, that's super fast.

Speaker 2 I enjoyed that one. I feel like because I worked in journalism for so long,

Speaker 2 working for the BBC in the newsroom, everything is fast. A story breaks in the morning, I've got it on air by lunchtime.

Speaker 2 Publishing, I write the book. Sometimes it isn't out for a year or a year and a half later.
And you've already finished the next one?

Speaker 2 I've already finished the next one. I'm onto the two books ahead.
And television, in my experience so far, takes even longer.

Speaker 2 But I'm kind of I've made peace with that now because now I've seen them actually film my TV show. I'm like, it is worth the wait, guys.

Speaker 2 It's worth the wait. Yeah, I'm so excited.
Let's do it again.

Speaker 4 And you've already finished the next one after this?

Speaker 2 Yes, I have. Is there a publishing date? I think it will probably end up being this time next year.
Okay. So, um, not too long to wait.
It's not too long.

Speaker 4 I think the years go by really fast. I mean, I don't know if it's because I have seven kids or what it is, but I feel like the years just go by so fast.

Speaker 2 They do, don't they?

Speaker 2 I mean, everything I think just keeps coming around so quickly suddenly it's birthdays and Christmases and Halloween it's like we just did this five minutes ago yeah yeah would you ever do a book about your life or a character sort of like your life working for the BBC

Speaker 2 like have a main character that worked for you I'm just not that interesting in real life

Speaker 2 I just you know sometimes people say why don't you narrate your own audiobooks I'm like oh gosh I don't like the sound of my own voice do you pick who who narrates them or I do?

Speaker 2 I think I'm a bit of a control freak in some ways

Speaker 2 because they are my children. Yeah.
You know, I really care about them all deeply.

Speaker 2 And I get so scared, you know, when it's publication day, for example, because it's like I'm sending my children out into the world for the first time by themselves.

Speaker 2 And I just hope everyone's going to be kind to them and take care of them. And if anyone isn't kind to them, I hope they're strong enough to take care of themselves.

Speaker 2 Well, those strange sorts of feelings, you know, that you might have about sending a child out to school for the first time or something but I think that's pretty normal though because you just never know how people are gonna

Speaker 2 you know feel about them you don't go on goodreads though right no you shouldn't no I try to um the only I read I read reviews when they're good and people send them to me so my team my family my friends will send me the good ones yeah um and I think you've got to be quite um

Speaker 2 you've got to just kind of roll with the punches a little bit with that it's not possible to write a book that everyone is going to love it's simply not possible And I remember even in year one, I learned very early on don't read reviews, but also I learned not to pay too much attention to reviews.

Speaker 2 I remember my favorite Amazon review

Speaker 2 is a five-star review on Amazon. And then the description just says great.

Speaker 2 And below that, it says, this is the best dog brush I've ever used on my husky. It gets rid of all the dead fur.

Speaker 2 And I just thought, well, I'll I'll take it. That's still a five-star review.

Speaker 2 I still worry that somewhere there is a really brilliant dog brush out there with a one-star review that says, this book sucks.

Speaker 2 But, you know, because clearly they got them in a muddle.

Speaker 2 So, no, the reviews I mostly care about, honestly, across my heart, are reader reviews.

Speaker 2 When people post a review on Instagram or something like that, and they tag me in it, I read all of those.

Speaker 2 I look at the beautiful pictures they take of my books all around the world, and it brings me so much joy when a reader has genuinely loved reading one of my books

Speaker 2 when they get it. You know, that's it's the best feeling in the world.

Speaker 4 My

Speaker 4 um, I'll call her my co-host for Book Club. I mean, she ate it.
She texted me, she's like, This is so good. Thank you.
And I was like, I'm sure she'll love that. And I'll tell her that you said that.

Speaker 4 When you start writing, do you plan your twists out ahead of time, sort of before you have the full story, or do the twists come as you go?

Speaker 2 Most of it is there. So I tend to think about the books for one or two years before I start.
So even when I'm working on one book, my head is already planning the next one.

Speaker 2 It's always very noisy up here. There's always voices all the time.
I wish they shush.

Speaker 2 And unfortunately, a lot of my good ideas tend to happen at 3 a.m. in the morning.

Speaker 2 And we've established I'm not great at technology. So I sometimes forget how to make the phone go into silent.
So my poor husband at 3 a.m.

Speaker 2 will just hear tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Because sometimes, you know, you'd think you might forget the idea idea if you don't write it down.

Speaker 2 So, I tend to put it all together in pieces like that. Then, I have a giant board, giant white board.

Speaker 2 I think because I'm so old-fashioned and not down with the kids at all, for years I did everything on an actual giant cardboard board, which would have tiny little bits of different coloured card stuck to it with blue tech.

Speaker 2 Do you have blue tech in America? It's like it's like chewing gum,

Speaker 2 but it's just sticking things together. I don't know that we call it that.

Speaker 4 I'm not sure, but I remember I used to

Speaker 2 still think kids were used for my first grade class group.

Speaker 4 Yes, exactly. Because I just wanted it for whatever reason.

Speaker 2 So I did it like a child, basically, putting together this sticky board. And then one year, my husband said, This is ridiculous.
You're actually,

Speaker 2 you're actually like a professional author now. I think we need to up your game.

Speaker 2 So I have the same thing, but it's a whiteboard with magnets and still the same different coloured cards, but it looks slightly better, I suppose.

Speaker 2 It doesn't look like my nine-year-old niece's artwork project.

Speaker 4 I just watched A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson.

Speaker 4 She has the show on Netflix, and one of the main characters is trying to solve the crime, and she has like a marker that she's like drawing on the wall with like pictures and arrows and sort of like what you're describing.

Speaker 4 Yes. And it just looks...
to us like a mess, but to her it made sense. Exactly.

Speaker 2 I think I need to see the whole book in one place. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I need to see all the chapters, all the characters and just see it all together and then once i've got the board i even call it board day um once i've got this is like a special day because it's it's like me committing to writing the book i've never done the board and then not written the book so that's when i'm sure it's a book it's something i want to write something i want to commit at least a year of my life to and then i have all these strange little traditions so after board day um

Speaker 2 i'm telling you far too much it's because it feels like we're just having a nice fun chat i forget that anyone else is going to hear all my madness later on.

Speaker 4 I'm going to love it, though, because there are people that listen that are like, we want to write a book. What do we do?

Speaker 2 Well, you need a board.

Speaker 2 You need to have a board day.

Speaker 2 And then I normally treat myself to a very nice bottle of champagne. And I write the book number and the date.
And I put it in the fridge straight after board day.

Speaker 2 And then I'm not allowed to drink the champagne until my agent has read the book once I finished it and says it's good.

Speaker 2 So for the following year, I will open the fridge several times a day and see the champagne and think, not yet, not yet.

Speaker 2 So it's so special when I get the phone call from my agent to say, I've read it. It's good.
You've done it. Well done.
And you can drink it.

Speaker 2 Then I drink the champagne and then we start all over again and sooner or later there's another bored day.

Speaker 2 I love that. Isn't my life fun?

Speaker 4 No, I actually love it because I'm like, this is so, and you have like the writing shed.

Speaker 2 I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think everyone has their little quirks and I have the jar of lucky Kit Kats on my desk as well.

Speaker 2 So if it's a slow writing day, if it's taking me a while to get to my 2,000 words, then I have a Lucky Kit Kat.

Speaker 2 And I always, I always, whenever I come to America, I remember that here you have six finger Kit Kats because at home there's only two finger Kit Kats. Okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 The ones here would not fit in my special lucky Kit Kat jar. But I always wonder if I lived in America with the giant Kit Kats, I could probably write two books a year.

Speaker 2 I'd probably speed up. I shouldn't be able to do it.

Speaker 4 We could also get you in America, everything I feel like is bigger. So, we could also get you a bigger jar.
So, the six-finger ones would be able to fit in the jar.

Speaker 2 Yes, I'm sure there is a jar out there that we could use to accommodate this.

Speaker 4 We could definitely do that.

Speaker 2 I don't know that you'll be able to get it back on your plane, but you have such different confectionery here. It always amazes me.
And

Speaker 2 on the film set for his and hers, they had this area every day, wherever we were, whether we were on set or in a house called Crafty

Speaker 2 with all these different, amazing snacks just everything everything you can so jessica chastain is producing the show and she was rather partial to something i'd never heard of before which was a lollipop with bubble gum in the middle you don't have that no i'd never heard of such a thing

Speaker 2 that's what she called it that's what it was because when she first said it it sounded a little bit rude if i'm honest i didn't know what was going on you know if someone says they want one of those i just think crikey i thought we're here to film a show but um no and so she was explaining to me that that's what they are and it's a thing.

Speaker 2 And she, she loved these things. And I, I don't know what my face did.
I think my face sometimes does things I don't know it's doing.

Speaker 2 And she understood that I wasn't that impressed with this particular

Speaker 2 lollipop with bubblegum in the middle. And she said, what's what's wrong with that? And I said, well, either it should either be a lollipop or it should be bubblegum.

Speaker 2 And I told her the story of the time I nearly divorced my husband, who I've been with for 20 years,

Speaker 2 because of a Yorkie bar. Do you have Yorkie bars here? No, no, see, this is the problem.
You have all these different things, and we have different things at home.

Speaker 2 But at home, we have this thing called a Yorkie bar. And when I was a child, the advert, the TV advert for it, said, These are not for girls.

Speaker 2 Which, again, when someone says, I can't do something, I can't.

Speaker 2 I wanted it. So I always wanted the Yorkie bar.
But then they messed it up by having a special version which had raisins inside it. You know, and I think chocolate should be chocolate.

Speaker 2 Raisins, I've got no problem with them, but they should just be raisins.

Speaker 2 And I felt really sad that first day I met Jessica Chastain that instead of having a deep and meaningful conversation with her, I spent most of it talking about raisins and chocolate and lollipops and bubblegum bits in the middle.

Speaker 2 But we got to know each other the next day on set a bit better. So it was all good.

Speaker 4 I'm sure she'll remember that forever, too. But I just have to ask then, do you know what a Tootsie Pop is?

Speaker 2 Oh my goodness. Again, I'm worried it sounds so rude.
Doesn't it? I mean, what on earth could that be?

Speaker 4 In my my opinion, they're better than a blow pop. They have a Tootsie roll, which is chewy chocolate in the middle, and then a lollipop on the outside.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 And they're so good. Okay, well, I'm going to make it my mission to find one while I'm here.

Speaker 4 I'm going to have to, I'm going to bring one to your event and I'll sneak it to Claire. If I see Claire, I'll sneak it to Claire so she can get it.

Speaker 2 That's amazing. That can be a thing to look forward to.
Yes,

Speaker 4 but you have to promise you're going to try it. I will.
You don't have to try it today, but you'll have to try it another, you know, whenever you're out of your event.

Speaker 4 But I would argue that a Tootsie Pop is better than a Blow Pop because the thing about the Blow Pops is that the gum gets really hard really fast.

Speaker 2 All these things I never knew. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I'm worried that you've missed out a little bit.

Speaker 2 I think I could have. This very sheltered life I've had in Britain, where we don't have these magical things that are here.
The Tootsie Pop is good, though. Okay, I'm going to give it a while.

Speaker 4 All right, let's talk about hair because I want my characters.

Speaker 2 Oh, well, it's always, it's always different.

Speaker 2 Sometimes I just know their name. So with Sometimes I Lie, I remember waking up again between three and four, which I think is my magical witching hour.
And I just knew three things.

Speaker 2 I had this story in my head that I woke up with, and I thought, I've got to write it down straight away or I'm going to forget. And so I had this.

Speaker 2 very cheap, strange little board from a shop called Woolworths that we used to have in the UK, which mostly sold sweets. I'm obsessed with talking about sweets today.

Speaker 2 But I remember writing on it in my sort of half-asleep dazed state that the main character's name was Amber Reynolds. I just knew it it from my dream.

Speaker 2 And there were three things I had to remember about her. That number one, she was in a coma.
Number two, her husband didn't love her anymore. And number three, sometimes she lies.

Speaker 2 And that became the book. I mean, that became the opening and it was the crux of the story.
So I literally woke up with that name in my head.

Speaker 2 For Grady Green, I think I just really like names with a smidgen of alliteration. So I've, you know, I've had a Priya Patel in his and hers or, yeah, Grady Green in this particular book.

Speaker 2 And I have a future book. So, a book that won't be out next year, a book that will be out the year after.

Speaker 2 Two of the main characters in that are actually names of people who came to a book signing at a tiny little bookshop in Cornwall, in England.

Speaker 2 You know, because I see all these names when I'm signing books for people in the queue after events, and sometimes people have these amazing, beautiful names that I've never heard of before.

Speaker 2 And I remember meeting this very sweet girl at this bookshop a few years ago when we were promoting Daisy Darker and I just stopped what I was doing and that's not a good idea when you've got a long queue of people waiting for signatures I said oh my goodness that's just the most amazing name I've ever heard would you mind if I used that in a book because she was a fan she had all the books I knew she would read it one day

Speaker 2 and it's an unusual name so it would be a huge coincidence if I'd chosen it any other way and she said I'd be so thrilled if you did that and she left the queue and then she ran back she said by the way just in case my sister's called and I won't say what it is is, this other name.

Speaker 2 And my goodness, their parents were really on it. They were two fantastic names.
And I said, I'm going to use them both one day. I don't know when, but I will.
And I have.

Speaker 2 So, in a couple of years' time, that very sweet girl I met in a queue a few years ago in line in a bookshop in Cornwall will see her name in one of the books.

Speaker 4 That is amazing.

Speaker 2 So, yes, people should come to the events because you might end up in a book. You never know.
You never know.

Speaker 4 That's incredible. And they're going to love that.
You just made their whole year, I'm sure. When that book comes out, they're going to be so excited.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm not always nice about it. We renovated a very old thatched cottage a few years ago, and we had an awful plumber.
I really, really did not like this man.

Speaker 2 He, you know, we turned on the new system for the first time, and the walls actually were crying. You know, there was water running out everywhere, floods everywhere.
And he was such a...

Speaker 2 He was such an he was not a good person. He was

Speaker 2 not a goodie. So I murdered him in a book and I felt so much better.
That's the best thing I ever heard.

Speaker 2 I felt so much better afterwards.

Speaker 2 Suddenly, he was all forgiven, and i felt i felt better again and he'll never say karma he'll never read it so it's fine so i get the names from he might after hearing this podcast he might he might i get the names from all over the place um yes i mean i think that's funny do you get any inspiration from any other authors or have you ever oh yes um i mean too many to mention sure probably but as a child i was a bit obsessed with stephen king books um i was i was good at school academically um really bad at sport could not catch a ball, still can't.

Speaker 2 You know, we do netball and someone throw a ball and just hit me. I couldn't catch it.
What is netball? Oh, my goodness. All these things that are different.
Is basketball? No.

Speaker 2 You throw the ball and if you're not me, you catch it. And then you, it's a bit like basketball, as in there's a net and you throw it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 4 Is that only in the UK?

Speaker 2 I don't think so. I didn't used to think so.
But when you catch the ball, you have to stand still. But even that wasn't a problem for me because I could never catch it.

Speaker 2 So no good at sports, really slow at running. And I'm quite short.
I find it really comical that my feet actually don't touch the ground here. Oh, wow, they really don't.
Yeah, no, they really don't.

Speaker 2 I'm really short. So I'm sitting, I feel like a child or like an umpa loompa.
I'm from Williwonkaland.

Speaker 2 No, but so, you know,

Speaker 2 they ask you things like the hurdles at school. I can't jump over things, for goodness sakes.
Got little stumpy legs here.

Speaker 2 So, no, no good at sport, but good academically. So we'd have these prize givings at the end of the school year.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Nothing for the sports side, but I I I could I could write, I could do English and I could add things up in math.

Speaker 2 So I'd I'd I'd win at that and I'd get like a the the prize you would get would be book tokens. Okay.

Speaker 2 And then you could choose your your your book and then you'd go up on stage, meet a local celebrity, shake their hands.

Speaker 2 You know, the head m headmaster would read something out about you, you'd get your book. All the other kids would go up on stage, collect a giant atlas or a special encyclopedia.

Speaker 2 I'd spend my vouchers on as many Stephen King paperbacks as I could. I've never met him.

Speaker 2 No, I was so loved to meet him. I think he's like, I have so many heroes, but he's my number one hero.
And I think I'm a writer because of him.

Speaker 2 I think me disappearing inside of his stories when I was a little girl is what made me fall in love with stories so much.

Speaker 2 So no, I think I owe him so many things, but also his book on writing,

Speaker 2 that's my go-to.

Speaker 2 You know, if I'm having a badly behaved book, I have no idea how many times I have read the book, as in read the physical book, but also listened to the audiobook because he narrates it himself.

Speaker 2 So I feel like sometimes Stephen King is in my shed with me, guiding me if I get stuck, reminding me that I have written a few books before, and of course, we can write another one, and this is how we do it.

Speaker 2 So, no, there have been lots of authors, and there are authors around, you know, who every year I'm so excited to read their books.

Speaker 2 Lisa Jaw is a big favourite of mine. We share an agent.
So, one of the best perks of my job now is that I get sent her books early every year. Yes.
I'm like so excited for that.

Speaker 2 I mean, that's enough for me to want to carry on being an author forever. So I get to read her books early every year.
That's awesome. So no, I'm a huge fan of lots of authors and I read a lot still.

Speaker 4 Frida also told me that she liked, she was listening, at the time of the interview, she was listening to a Stephen King book.

Speaker 2 So that's funny that you guys both really like it. Yes, and

Speaker 2 I listened to Holly quite recently as well. Holly Jackson? He had a book called Holly.
Oh,

Speaker 2 yes, yeah, which was fantastic. I think audiobooks these days have come on in such an incredible way.
The beautiful, the beautiful, ugly audiobook has all these amazing sound effects in

Speaker 2 the world that really bring the story to life. So there's a crackle of a walkie-talkie, or there are the sounds of the waves.

Speaker 2 It treats music to everything.

Speaker 4 Yes. It really does.
And the thing is, sometimes, and I can't speak for all readers, but sometimes I'm in the car a lot.

Speaker 4 So I was telling you before we started podcasting it, you know, I drive to New York several times a month. And so sometimes I'll start a book, like a physical copy or on my Kindle.

Speaker 4 And then I, you know, if I'm in the car for three hours, I'll listen to the same book.

Speaker 2 So I'll buy the physical book, but I'll also buy the audio.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 4 And so when sometimes when you do that and you hear the sound effects and everything, it is either exactly what you thought it, what you pictured for the physical book when you're reading it, or it'll change it a little bit.

Speaker 4 And so then you have like an even better idea because of the sound effects that are in an audiobook.

Speaker 2 It's really fun, isn't it? And I just think, again, anything that's getting people into reading and stories in whatever format is fantastic. And Richard Armitage narrates this one.

Speaker 2 You know, I would forget listening to it that it was, it was just him doing about 20 different voices.

Speaker 2 So we've got Richard Armitage and we've got Tuppence Middleton, but Richard, in all of his chapters, you'll hear about 10 different versions. Richard can be a 40-year-old man.

Speaker 2 He can be an elderly woman from Scotland. He can be the East End pub landlord.
All of them. And I was like, how is he doing? He sounds like he's having such fun in it.

Speaker 2 So it was a real joy to listen to. And I think readers are going to enjoy that version too.

Speaker 4 Good. I did try to get it before.
Oh, I didn't try to get it. I went to go download it, but it wasn't out yet because I forgot that today is publication day.

Speaker 2 So I was like, okay, well, but reading it, just reading it, I think is also, I mean, that's my favorite way of reading that because then you get your own version, don't you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 You picture it all in your own head how it's going to look and who they are and what they sound like.

Speaker 4 Because I was telling you earlier, my son and I watched A Good Girl's Guide to Murder, which is YA. It was like right up his alley.

Speaker 4 But he was, I didn't read it. I had only seen the show, and he was telling me, oh, that, you know, that wasn't the way that I pictured it in my head or, you know, something like that.

Speaker 4 And so it's, I think, audio is a little bit different because you can still picture it in your head the way you want, but it's still like a fun way to do it. Rapid fire, really quick.

Speaker 2 Is that would that be fine? Oh, yes. Okay.
I don't know what that is, but let's do it.

Speaker 4 But what is the best piece of advice that you received as a writer?

Speaker 4 I think you can do better from that lady.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it probably, probably was.

Speaker 2 I mean, when people ask me, you know, what should I do if I want to become a writer, I always say read a lot, write a lot, and never give up, because if you don't give up, you can't fail.

Speaker 2 And I think that's probably, you know, what I was telling myself at the time during those almost 10 years of keep writing books and keep collecting the rejection letters.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, I think the best piece of advice I did get was you can do better. I love that.

Speaker 4 Coffee or tea while writing?

Speaker 2 Neither. Neither.
I don't drink hot drinks. Oh, okay.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 I don't use iced coffee and iced tea.

Speaker 2 Ooh. Neither? Okay.
No.

Speaker 2 I don't know why. I think I'm a bit of a child in that way, too.

Speaker 2 Something fizzy.

Speaker 4 Oh, same. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I do love a good Coke. What's the Coke like in England? Okay, I think it will taste the same, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 No, absolutely not. Oh, no.
Okay.

Speaker 4 The best Coke you can ever get on the planet is in Disney World in Florida.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 4 And then I would say second to that is McDonald's Coke.

Speaker 2 I did not know this. In America.
I did not know this. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I think they do add a little bit extra syrup. I don't know that for sure.
Don't sue me. But But I would guess that they add a little razzle dazzle to it.

Speaker 2 I like a lemonade. Ooh, okay.
I love pulp. With pulp or without pulp?

Speaker 2 Either, actually. I like both, but maybe without

Speaker 2 and a straw.

Speaker 2 I like a straw. Okay.

Speaker 4 But I don't like a straw with soda because I feel like the paper straws.

Speaker 4 specifically that are better for the environment, they take the fizz out of the drink.

Speaker 2 Yes, and then they go a bit soggy, don't they? Yeah. You know, because you've got to drink it quickly.
You've got to just get on with that. Yes.

Speaker 4 What is one thing that you cannot write without?

Speaker 2 My dog. Yes.

Speaker 4 Which is also, there's a dog in Beautiful, Ugly. There's also a dog in Rock, Paper, Scissors.
I don't remember a dog in Sometimes I Lie.

Speaker 2 No, I don't think I don't think I was doing the dog thing at that stage.

Speaker 2 There's always a dog now because I spend all day with my dog. And so he's sitting on my feet.
And I really wanted to call our

Speaker 2 dog now is two years old.

Speaker 2 So he's still a bit of a big puppy. And he's called Boots.

Speaker 4 Not Columbo.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 But it's funny because in my next book, I called the dog in my next book what I really wanted to call Boots. So in the next book, there you go.
There's a bit of a hint of the book that's to come.

Speaker 2 There's a dog in the next book called Sunday. And I really wanted to call my dog Sunday, but my husband pointed out that we might be up in the woods or up a mountain one day going, Sunday, Sunday.

Speaker 2 And someone would think, what weirdos, it's Friday.

Speaker 2 So I wasn't allowed to call Boots Sunday. So i called a dog in a book sunday instead i actually know some

Speaker 2 someone who named their child sunday i think it's a lovely name i think sunday is my favorite day of the week i think sunday's a great day so um and dogs are great chill day okay

Speaker 4 um and where is your favorite place to write scotland scotland or the shed or the yeah yeah okay which they're is it a shed here yeah not a shed but there's he's always writing a cabin yeah yes and same for um henry winter and rock paper scissors yes

Speaker 2 Yes. He likes the...
Yes, I think I definitely,

Speaker 2 whenever I write about writers, I guess they do tend to have more in common with me in that way. I know that some writers like to write in cafes, and I think they are an alien species to me.

Speaker 2 I need quiet. And yeah, the shed, somewhere remote, somewhere in the corner of Scotland with no phone signal.
Perfect. My idea of heaven.

Speaker 4 My worst nightmare.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. We'd have to meet somewhere in the middle, wouldn't we? Yes.

Speaker 4 And so where can people get Beautiful Ugly or any of your books?

Speaker 2 I think Beautiful Ugly is everywhere today. It seems to be everywhere.

Speaker 2 I keep, you know, I keep opening up Instagram and I see more and more beautiful pictures taken by readers, which makes me honestly so giddy with joy, actually, to see people reading it and enjoying it.

Speaker 2 So I think it's out everywhere that you can buy books today. Sold out temporarily, I think, because so many people have ordered it from Amazon, but it'll be back in stock soon, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 So, no, I'm just so grateful to everyone who's been talking about the the book, spreading the news about the book, and it's finally out. Hooray! Hooray! Congratulations! Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 And where can people find you on social media?

Speaker 2 Oh, Instagram is the best one for me. That's my happy place.
I always try and see all the pictures that I'm tagged in.

Speaker 2 And I really love seeing them. And people go to such incredible lengths to take beautiful pictures of the book.
They do.

Speaker 4 I saw the collage you posted of all the events. I think that you posted it.

Speaker 2 Yes, I did.

Speaker 4 And there was a collage of every single one that you probably had seen, or maybe they didn't fit all in there.

Speaker 2 But I was like, wow, that's incredible. Yes, I just, I really love seeing them.
So if I see ones that I love, I save them onto my phone. I thought, I want to celebrate this.

Speaker 2 And I want my readers to know that I am looking at this stuff and I really appreciate it. So, no, I think, you know, writers are nothing without readers.
And I have the best ones. So I'm so grateful.

Speaker 4 Well, thank you. And I will see you at your event later tonight at Barnes and Noble.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for talking to me. And I can't wait to see you again later.
It's been so much fun. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 6 I'm Caitlin Bristow, host of Off the Vine podcast, where I get real, maybe a little too real sometimes, with my friends and celeb guests from Bachelor Franchise and Beyond.

Speaker 6 I'm talking guests like Jonathan Vaness.

Speaker 6 Nikki Glazer, Wells Adams, Elise Myers.

Speaker 4 Just like in this like business jacket, like I would love some tagos.

Speaker 6 Heidi D'Amilio, Big Brothers, Taylor Hale. I have to bring it up because it happened and we're going to get through it.
But I do. And so many more.

Speaker 6 So come hang out with us, hear ridiculous confessions, and get a little vulnerable because you know what? We're all just floating on this weird little planet together.

Speaker 6 Follow, rate, and review Off Divine podcasts wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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