An Abortion Story (FBF)

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Speaker 26 I'm currently on my way to a preferred women's health center

Speaker 26 where women in Charlotte, North Carolina get abortions.

Speaker 26 It's a Saturday, so the clinic is probably going to be pretty busy. Saturday also is probably when a lot of protesters will be here.

Speaker 26 If there's one episode of Call Her Daddy

Speaker 14 that people should watch and listen to, it's this one.

Speaker 31 50 years worth of women's rights in America overturned

Speaker 32 and ended a woman's constitutional right to an abortion.

Speaker 35 Puts every single one of us in danger.

Speaker 35 Your children have done nothing wrong to deserve the death sentence today to deserve an end

Speaker 9 in the trash can.

Speaker 34 Did you choose life?

Speaker 34 Did you choose life?

Speaker 34 There's an ultrasound down there. Just go park there, okay?

Speaker 36 Go ahead.

Speaker 34 Go down there to the ultrasound. Keep driving.

Speaker 36 You're driving.

Speaker 37 Keep driving. Inside that building, you are not going to find hope.
You are not going to find health.

Speaker 38 You're not going to find joy or peace or any of those things inside that building because none of those things can help from the murder of your innocent life.

Speaker 38 Leading you like sheep into the plant.

Speaker 9 Hi, there. I'm a volunteer for the planet.

Speaker 37 God bless us.

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Speaker 20 I want to start off by having you introduce yourself.

Speaker 33 I'm Hala Hales.

Speaker 35 I'm the executive director of a Preferred Women's Health Center. And this is my ninth year being here.

Speaker 28 So your parents started this clinic.

Speaker 35 Yes.

Speaker 26 In what ways has your clinic been impacted by the overturn of Roby Wade?

Speaker 35 This is easily the most desperate I've ever seen patients, which is very frustrating. However, like we do focus on the fact that we are still helping patients live their best lives.

Speaker 26 Because as an outsider, just coming in and seeing the protesters immediately, I'm like, holy shit, this is hell.

Speaker 35 And this is like an easy day.

Speaker 35 Once you get here and you're driving to the clinic, you're driving past these folks who are calling themselves pregnancy counselors,

Speaker 35 but they're not with the clinic. And they're specifically trying to stop patients to explain to them why they shouldn't have an abortion or what they can do instead.

Speaker 35 You're seeing these patients and their companions come in, and

Speaker 35 you start hearing people yelling at you and being like, You're a murderer, you're a slut, mama, don't kill your baby.

Speaker 35 They're so loud that you can hear it through the doors and through the walls. And it is traumatizing.

Speaker 35 One of the worst and most uncomfortable feelings to have is when a patient comes in and like is so distraught and so upset. And you know, you ask them what's wrong.

Speaker 35 And they're like, am I going to die? I'm like, honey, why did you come in if you thought you were going to die? And she's like, well, I can't have this baby.

Speaker 35 But the guy outside tells me that like people die here all the time. And I'm like.

Speaker 35 The fact that you felt like you were submitting yourself to what you thought could be certain death is just so heartbreaking.

Speaker 31 Well, now that abortion laws can be determined by each state, conservative America is tightening its grip.

Speaker 19 So we knew that the United States Supreme Court was going to overturn Roe v.

Speaker 40 Wade.

Speaker 39 Fuck.

Speaker 19 And I mean this with all disrespect in my heart, you.

Speaker 47 26 states will ban abortion. You're talking about 36 million women of reproductive age.

Speaker 39 I'm a 15-year-old girl and my rights are being threatened.

Speaker 48 And I came here because I'm hoping to not allow these government officials who think they have control over my body to do what they're doing and take us back 50 years of fighting.

Speaker 33 The day that the ruling came down, I had to immediately call up my staff and tell them to stop seeing patients.

Speaker 33 Because in Alabama, we had a law that said that all abortion was illegal and anyone who was involved could be put in jail.

Speaker 33 I'm Robin Marty. I am operations director for West Alabama Women's Center.
and until a few months ago, it provided about half of the abortions in the state of Alabama.

Speaker 33 Now it just does reproductive health care.

Speaker 26 As we sit here today, how many states have made abortion illegal?

Speaker 33 At this point, we have 14 states where there's no longer legal abortion. Now that Roe v.

Speaker 33 Wade has been overturned, all of the states get to decide individually whether or not there will be legal abortion, and they don't have to have it legal in their state at all.

Speaker 33 A lot of times people think, okay, that means I have to go to the the next state over in order to get an abortion. Where I'm from in the south, in the Gulf Coast, there's no legal abortion anywhere.

Speaker 29 So is that when people are referring to like an abortion desert?

Speaker 33 Yeah, an abortion desert means that you have hundreds of miles that you have to go through in order to be able to access a legal clinic.

Speaker 33 We won't go back. We won't go back.
We won't go back.

Speaker 40 We won't go back. There have been bills in a number of states to ban common forms of birth control, not abortion, birth control.
I think every woman in America needs to know this.

Speaker 26 Should women be nervous and worried that birth control and Plan B could potentially become illegal?

Speaker 33 Oh God, yes. I'm so terrified of it.

Speaker 33 Specifically in Alabama, we think the next legislative session that emergency contraception is going to be banned. And we think this because right

Speaker 33 after the decision, there was a reporter who went through and asked all of the representatives whether they would consider banning emergency contraception next.

Speaker 33 And the worst part was most of them responded, I don't really know what that is, but yeah, we're gonna, that sounds like a good thing to ban.

Speaker 33 I don't know how it works, but yeah, we should ban it because that's what we're at. I don't know how it works, but yes, let's get rid of it.

Speaker 33 Your baby's heart started beating in your womb, just below your own heart.

Speaker 33 That's highlighted.

Speaker 33 If you you can't name five parts of a woman's reproductive system, you don't deserve an opinion on women's reproductive health care.

Speaker 33 You're not pro-wife. You're pro-forced birth.

Speaker 33 Women are not your incubators.

Speaker 9 Your religion

Speaker 9 does not have a place

Speaker 9 in my doctor's office.

Speaker 26 I drove up to the clinic while this protest is going on and

Speaker 42 I was shaking.

Speaker 26 It's fucking terrifying. There's so much shame as I was driving.
A man just started screaming, murderer, murderer, and a woman shoved her face at my car window and it's like, did you choose life?

Speaker 1 Did you choose life? Did you choose life?

Speaker 34 There's an ultrasound down there. Just go park there, okay?

Speaker 26 The shame that they're trying to inflict on these women, the confusion also of like how they make you feel, it's so overwhelming.

Speaker 26 And it's, I can't, I cannot even imagine waking up in the morning to get an abortion and to have to fucking deal with this bullshit.

Speaker 9 It is,

Speaker 50 it's insane.

Speaker 35 I am Christy Kelly.

Speaker 28 My regular job is I'm a corporate accountant

Speaker 35 and I have been volunteering in like some sphere of reproductive justice for off and on 20 odd years.

Speaker 26 Your job is an escort and defender. Okay.
So can you describe what those jobs do? Sure.

Speaker 35 So escort's job is to, you know, once the patient's in the parking lot, you get them from their vehicle into the clinic door.

Speaker 35 And the whole point is just to shield them as much as possible, you know, to maintain their privacy and dignity and to try to shield them from, you know, a lot of the rhetoric and really nasty things.

Speaker 26 Do the protesters ever provide misinformation to the patients?

Speaker 35 A better question would be, do they ever not?

Speaker 9 provide misinformation.

Speaker 35 They try to say things that are not true, like if you go in there, you will die. An abortion is not safe.
An abortion is incredibly safe. It is safer.

Speaker 35 Have you ever had a root canal or gotten your wisdom teeth out? You were in way more danger.

Speaker 28 It's all scare tactics.

Speaker 33 Mostly.

Speaker 18 Yeah. And shame.

Speaker 35 Yeah. Shame and fear.
It's the easiest thing to learn about, like the anti-choice stuff and all of that. It's not about babies.
It's never, ever, ever about babies. It's about control.

Speaker 37 We are having a conference here.

Speaker 9 Conference.

Speaker 37 And I'm trying to enlighten these nice folks

Speaker 52 of their slavery to sin and their need to repent.

Speaker 9 Their slavery to sin.

Speaker 9 I was was free of you. You're concerned about repentance.

Speaker 9 I'm concerned about yours as well.

Speaker 44 Why do you think my soul is in jeopardy?

Speaker 52 Because you're supporting the murder of children.

Speaker 52 You're in rebellion to God? Because

Speaker 9 children are being murdered inside of the area. What if I don't believe in God?

Speaker 38 How can I be in rebellion to sin?

Speaker 52 I mean, you can stand on an interstate and say, I don't believe in Mac trucks, there's one coming at you at 70 miles an hour.

Speaker 38 So you are equating God with a MAC truck?

Speaker 52 And you need to bow before me when you address me. Oh, I will never bow before me.

Speaker 9 Because I identify as royalty. Do you know what those felt like? I've always felt royal ever since I was born.
Well, of course you felt royal.

Speaker 38 You're a white man.

Speaker 26 Do you believe in equality of women and men?

Speaker 52 I believe in equality of value, yes.

Speaker 9 I don't believe in equality of function.

Speaker 52 Like, literally, men and women have different functions

Speaker 52 with their bodies and the way their bodies operate.

Speaker 26 What is your goal when you show up to this place?

Speaker 52 My goal is to try to persuade people not to take the innocent lives of their children and offer them alternatives.

Speaker 9 Some kind of judgment. Is that a man's issue?

Speaker 52 I do think abortion is a man's issue, yes.

Speaker 9 Why is that?

Speaker 52 If men didn't take advantage of women and have sex with them outside of marriage then this wouldn't be a thing.

Speaker 26 Do you think that it would be helpful if men all at a young age got vasectomies and then when they were ready to financially be able to support a child then they get it reversed?

Speaker 52 Are you suggesting that the government institute that as

Speaker 52 a government program?

Speaker 26 Well at this point we're regulating the uteruses. We could also regulate the penises, right?

Speaker 26 I mean we're forced to have the kids you believe that

Speaker 26 I'm just asking you, do you think that would help?

Speaker 52 I don't know. I don't think it would be helpful for society.

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Speaker 44 I'm Shannon. I am the executive director of Charlotte for Choice, which is a nonprofit that helps defend and escort patients coming to the clinic.

Speaker 35 What do you make of the term pro-life?

Speaker 44 I don't use it because these folks are pro-life would be taking care of the children that are born, working with houseless population, helping others.

Speaker 44 they don't they also believe that you know help yourself we'll give you everything you need up to two years of life that's what the antis tell the patients we will give you a lavish baby shower for everything you need up to two years of life there's there's a little bit more involved so let's talk about this rv because this is this is crazy this is evil and you know you know in your heart that this is the murder of your child.

Speaker 28 What is happening in this RV?

Speaker 26 What is the purpose of the RV?

Speaker 57 You can have a free ultrasound and see your precious baby.

Speaker 44 They allegedly have an ultrasound. They say they have a nurse that gives you ultrasound.
They try to get patients to come on the RV.

Speaker 57 Young women, we have real help for you today.

Speaker 44 Yeah, perhaps they give ultrasounds, but while they're doing that, they're trying to convince them as to why they need to continue the pregnancy.

Speaker 57 Please do not do this today.

Speaker 44 They also use this opportunity to hopefully get the patients to not make their appointment, miss their appointment time.

Speaker 35 I can't actually remember a time where an ultrasound from that bus was accurate. I've had folks come in and say, well, they said they couldn't see anything.
Like I was too early to be seen.

Speaker 35 Or you tell them they're too far along to be seen to begin with. Like there's real manipulation here that really works to keep a patient from getting surfaces.

Speaker 37 We don't take money for what we do. They don't want you to have any other choices but death, but we have many choices.

Speaker 59 Health or housing, food, food, a big baby shower for your child that covers close to two years of the baby's life.

Speaker 35 If you're going to tell someone we have resources for you, be honest about what those resources are. If you take resources from them, they make them sign this like really elaborate contract.

Speaker 35 You have to give them access to going to medical appointments, to posting your image and your potentially future child's image on social media. They get to use you as a bargaining chick success story.

Speaker 35 That's pretty gross. That's really, really exploitative.
And there's a huge element of, you know, white saviorism to it, too. That is extra gross.

Speaker 26 It does feel very manipulative.

Speaker 35 Right, because they're going to say, we have resources, we can do this, this, this, this, and this for you. They don't.
We've looked at those pamphlets.

Speaker 35 They're the number to the local social services. It's how to apply for Medicaid, how to apply for food stamps.
How is that helping someone?

Speaker 57 Inside that building, you are not going to find hope.

Speaker 33 We hear the religious right say that it's okay to do those kind of lies because it's for a good cause.

Speaker 35 It's for God. God's word says the sixth commandment, God says, thou shalt not murder.

Speaker 33 And it just terrifies me because

Speaker 33 when you feel that every person who is for bodily autonomy is evil, they don't believe their lies and deception of this world.

Speaker 60 The wicked people.

Speaker 33 Everything's justified.

Speaker 33 They believe that they are fighting the spiritual battle and we are the devil.

Speaker 61 I don't care how many of y'all come out here.

Speaker 61 I don't care how many times you come out here. People are going to get abortion.

Speaker 9 Abortion is still legal in North Carolina. We are still free.

Speaker 61 You uphold white supremacy.

Speaker 36 You

Speaker 28 How does religion play a part in the fight for women to have access to this type of health care?

Speaker 33 Well, their religion doesn't like women.

Speaker 33 When you look at all of the language in the decision that overturned Droe v.

Speaker 33 Wade, it's all harkening back to the 150 and 1600s when women were possessions that were traded for cows and used to make alliances, but they weren't people.

Speaker 33 They didn't have any control over their lives. And that's what they like.
They like the idea of women as possessions.

Speaker 33 They like the idea of women as something that they can move around and bend around and will do whatever it is that they want.

Speaker 33 And what better way to do that than to have her exhausted and constantly pregnant? Being able to control your own body gives you independence. And that's not something that they enjoy.

Speaker 33 That's not something they like. And apparently it's not something that is part of their Christianity.

Speaker 33 My name is Kristen Smith.

Speaker 35 My name is Rana. My name's Nick.

Speaker 58 I'm a non-binary person. My name is Jack.

Speaker 51 My pronouns are they, them.

Speaker 62 My name is Victoria Refel, and I had an abortion.

Speaker 35 I had an abortion.

Speaker 28 I had an abortion when I was 20 years old.

Speaker 45 I found out I was pregnant when I was in my early 20s.

Speaker 58 And I had an abortion in Texas in 2017.

Speaker 51 The condom broke. I went and got a Plan B.
That did not help.

Speaker 51 And when I found myself in that position, you know, the partner I had at the time, we had a really tumultuous and complicated relationship that was not healthy.

Speaker 58 I was unemployed. I was just in a period of a lot of instability.
I was living with a bunch of roommates. It was like the worst time to find out I was pregnant.

Speaker 35 I got pregnant just after my 40th birthday. Like many...

Speaker 35 people who have abortions. I was already a mom at the time.

Speaker 27 I have three kids and last year in May, I found out that we were pregnant with our fourth. It was unexpected but we quickly got excited.

Speaker 27 We found out it was a boy and we named him Case. Everything was perfect up until my 20-week ultrasound.

Speaker 62 I knew from the moment that I saw the positive pregnancy test that I did not want to continue the pregnancy. I felt my heart sink.

Speaker 62 to like the bottom of my stomach and I remember I was just crying, crying because I was afraid.

Speaker 27 I knew in my soul that I couldn't watch Case be born, to struggle to breathe, to go through any type of pain, to just lay there and watch him die.

Speaker 33 I just, I couldn't imagine it.

Speaker 27 So I scheduled, I called the clinic in DC and I scheduled an appointment.

Speaker 35 For me, it was not a hard decision to have an abortion. I was already struggling to balance work and being a parent.
I felt like my kids deserved 100% of my attention.

Speaker 58 I did have to face protesters on that day and it made it really hard. You know, it honestly

Speaker 58 was just really humiliating to have to listen to people scream about me and, you know, tell me I'm a bad person for making a medical decision that has nothing to do with them.

Speaker 60 Having an abortion is probably one of the best things that's ever happened to me. Having that access is one of the best things that has ever happened to me.
It gave me freedom. It gave me a life.

Speaker 60 I absolutely would not have been able to carry that to terms.

Speaker 51 There is no way I would have survived that.

Speaker 60 I would have made sure I didn't survive that.

Speaker 35 I do think about that pregnancy and think about what my life would have been like if I had added another child to our family at that point. And I'm very glad I made that decision.

Speaker 62 I felt so relieved that I could finally move on with my life. I could finally heal.
I wanted to graduate. I wanted to study abroad.

Speaker 62 I wanted to do so many things. And because of my abortion, I'm now figuring those things out.

Speaker 58 And it changed my life for the better.

Speaker 45 Having the right to an abortion, having my abortion, it saved my life.

Speaker 45 It allowed me to become a parent when I was good and ready over a full decade later.

Speaker 45 It meant that I could grow my family on my own terms according to my own timeline with a PhD degree in hand and pursuing a career I care about deeply.

Speaker 45 It meant that I could live my life in the way that I knew was best for me.

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Speaker 12 Here's the thing, Daddy Gang.

Speaker 7 You know, I love the outdoors.

Speaker 18 I love it.

Speaker 22 I love it.

Speaker 12 And I love it until I don't have service.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 12 I'm like, ooh, this hike is so gorgeous, Matt.

Speaker 4 My dogs are so hot.

Speaker 19 Wait a second.

Speaker 46 Daddy Gang, I'm here to tell you, we are going to be fine.

Speaker 10 Now, even if you wander into the middle of nowhere, T-Mobile has us connected because they have T-satellite.

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Speaker 14 Like, picture a random trail, zero bars, but still texting the crew chat, like, yeah, I survive.

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Speaker 55 They

Speaker 26 know who you are. Yeah.

Speaker 26 You're pregnant. Yes.
Like, is that almost to them like confusing? Like, oh, the woman that's helping give abortions is pregnant now. Like, how do they treat you?

Speaker 35 Um, some of them, it really does radically fuck with their heads. Last time I was pregnant, I gave, uh, I gave birth during COVID.
And

Speaker 35 after I gave birth, I had complications. My daughter had complications.
And that information got out somehow.

Speaker 35 And that led to a lot of protesters being like,

Speaker 35 this is punishment.

Speaker 28 Your daughter's going to die.

Speaker 35 Like, this is going to be punishment for all those babies you killed. This is your karma.
This is your retribution. I used to take it really personally.
I don't as much anymore,

Speaker 35 just because of the fact that

Speaker 35 if you did, if you took it personally, like it would eat you alive. And I feel like that's what they want though.
They want to eat you alive. They want you to quit.

Speaker 35 They want you to just make their lives easier.

Speaker 26 You have

Speaker 32 been

Speaker 26 personally attacked because of the work you do.

Speaker 26 Do you mind sharing what happened to you in Raleigh?

Speaker 35 So when I was still in Raleigh,

Speaker 35 I had just gotten out of grad school and moved back town. And like most people who are new to an area,

Speaker 35 you make friends, you go on dates and things like that. And I unfortunately went on a date with someone who I thought was normal and wasn't.

Speaker 35 It turned out to be a protester who knew me and knew my family and knew what I did and had a lot of feelings about it. And in turn, took that out on me.

Speaker 35 And I was attacked and assaulted.

Speaker 33 I know her tells she needs a second.

Speaker 33 Oh, no.

Speaker 9 She's seen me do this way too many times.

Speaker 33 I'm sad because I don't think people understand

Speaker 33 it's very hard. It's hard to be an open book.
It's

Speaker 33 difficult to live life really publicly. And

Speaker 33 it's difficult when you know that there are people that want to cause you harm. And Calla is so unbelievably brave.

Speaker 33 And she just keeps coming back and she does it over and over and over again.

Speaker 36 You good?

Speaker 28 Obviously, you're still working in this field.

Speaker 26 It's very close to you and your family, but to have something happen to you like that, like, how did you move on?

Speaker 35 There's a certain level that you don't move on.

Speaker 35 I will say that it still comes up. It catches me off guard when it still comes up.
But obviously I was caught off guard in this conversation

Speaker 35 because you lock it, you just lock it down and you keep moving. It's like that is a thing, it happened.
And I have to now see patients who are in that exact situation, too.

Speaker 35 So, if I can use that to help them and understand them,

Speaker 35 one of the things that I do try to be kind of open about is, and like I keep, like Robin said, like, I keep coming back and I keep being this open book is because,

Speaker 35 quite honestly, people need that and they need to know that they can talk about it.

Speaker 24 Don't murder an innocent child.

Speaker 36 You're not going to be able to escape death.

Speaker 50 I know the true love of Jesus Christ.

Speaker 24 These people, they don't know love. They spread hate.

Speaker 50 They take his name in vain and spread a message of hate and disgust and vile.

Speaker 39 Terrified little man.

Speaker 39 There's a time when women are not free

Speaker 24 They're not pro-life. They're pro-hypocrisy, pro-birth, and pro-control.

Speaker 31 All they really care about is controlling and suppressing women.

Speaker 63 We need to let them know that this is our bodies and we do what the fuck we want to do with our bodies.

Speaker 26 This is not exclusively a healthcare issue. It has become, it is political.
And in order to have autonomy over my own body, I need to get out there and vote.

Speaker 29 It's like, why do I have to vote to have control over my own body?

Speaker 26 How are we not progressed enough as a society where women have equal rights to men?

Speaker 33 That's a fabulous question. How long is your podcast?

Speaker 33 I mean, everything's about inequality, but also it's not just about women not being equal to men.

Speaker 33 It's about white patriarchal men who are terrified of the idea of losing power because when they grew up, they've always been the ones in charge.

Speaker 33 They've always been the ones likely to be running the board meetings. They're the ones that get called on the most in class.
They've always been in charge.

Speaker 35 So much of it is about control, and that does take you back to the patriarchy. If you are not assigned male at birth, you have less power in this country.

Speaker 12 You just do.

Speaker 33 At some point, we're going to to get to a place where people are going to have to challenge laws, and you challenge laws by breaking them.

Speaker 33 It's something that, quite frankly, I'm doing at this moment by saying it on a camera because I could get charged with conspiracy in my home state of Alabama.

Speaker 33 But everybody should have access to an abortion. Everybody can get access to an abortion, and they can do that by accessing pills online.

Speaker 33 Every person can do that, regardless of their state, by going to aidaccess.org, ordering pills, and having them.

Speaker 26 Interesting, the concept of breaking laws. And let's see, because if every single woman in America, if we all joined together and we decide, no, we're actually, we do deserve abortions.

Speaker 26 It's my fucking body. I'm going to do whatever the hell I want.

Speaker 33 There was this amazing protest where 100 women got together and took medication abortion out in the middle of the public square.

Speaker 33 Two of them were actually doing actual pills. The rest of them were taking Tylenol or something.
Nobody knew who was who and what was what. No one was arrested.

Speaker 33 That's the kind of shit we need to be doing.

Speaker 26 What will happen when the government in Alabama sees this?

Speaker 33 That's an excellent question, and it's one that I'm ready for. At some point, you have to decide what you're willing to do in order to make change.

Speaker 26 I don't think a lot of people understand what's going on, which is essentially a war against women and our bodies.

Speaker 26 Coming here has opened my eyes, and I feel so grateful because there's never been a greater moment that daddy gang can actually affect what's going on in the world.

Speaker 26 Like we genuinely can make a difference and change and I hope this episode shows like this is us. This, we are the women that could potentially also be going through this one day.

Speaker 26 And so if we don't fight for ourselves, who the fuck is going to?

Speaker 26 What would be your rally cry to people in America that are listening to this in their dorm rooms at home, in their apartments, wherever they are listening? What would you say to them?

Speaker 44 First off, is fight. When you fight, you start building strength.
When you start getting up, when you start getting momentum, when you start moving, you're getting ready to battle.

Speaker 44 And that's something that is, I hate to use that terminology, but that's what's going on. This is very much a battle.

Speaker 35 I know it's a broken system and that voting is such a hard thing in this country and so complicated, but it's the broken system we have. And to ignore it just means downfall faster.

Speaker 33 The idea of hell has no fury like a woman scorned. You just scorned a whole fucking nation of women and they are coming for you.

Speaker 33 Like that is the thing that gets me through every day is the thought of the reckoning. I call it the reckoning in my head because of course I do.

Speaker 33 And it's going to be amazing and I can't wait to watch it. And your audience is who is going to change everything because they're the ones who are going to be the most impacted by this.

Speaker 33 They are the first generation who is going to know what it's like to grow up without reproductive rights, that is going to have to face the idea that there are a bunch of men in power that think that they deserve less, that they don't deserve to have control over their bodies, that they don't deserve to have sex just for pleasure.

Speaker 33 Like,

Speaker 33 what good is a world without sex for pleasure? And they're going to fight for it.

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