Phoebe Gates & Sophia Kianni: Rebounds, Roommates & Running a Business

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Daddy gang, welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy.

I am so excited for you to watch this episode.

We have Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kiani on this week's episode.

They just launched their podcast called The Burnouts with Unwell, and they are our most recent sign to Unwell.

If you guys are going to become fans of them today, I am just excited for you to listen to their chaotic stories.

They're best friends, they're business partners, and they are officially unwell.

The first time I ever met them was on a random Zoom.

We had a mutual friend put us together.

They were like, you guys are in complete different industries, but maybe you guys will hit it off.

And one thing led to another.

And we recognized, wait, you guys are launching a sustainable fashion company.

You're young women in your 20s living in New York.

You're figuring life out.

Yeah, I want to listen to you guys and hear what you have to say.

And so we launched their podcast.

They also just launched their company called FIA, and they really have become quickly two of my favorite people.

They're so funny together.

Their banter as business partners and best friends is everything.

So without further ado, I'm so excited for you to get to know them.

Let's get into it.

What is up, Daddy Gang?

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Phoebe Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kiani.

Welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Thank you for having us.

Phoebe and Sophia have been up since 2 a.m.

3 a.m.

5 a.m.

Okay, your company just launched today.

Fia, how are you guys feeling?

I feel like we just birthed the child that we've been like creating for the last year.

It feels nuts.

I'm like really excited though.

I'm kind of freaking out a little bit.

Launch day for anyone that has a business, anyone first day of school, like a birthday party.

I don't even know what the feeling is, but there's just this excitement and I want to get into everything.

But first, I do though want people to get to know you better today

because this is kind of like now your reintroduction to the world through the lens of Caller Daddy and the daddy gang.

So we're going to do it a little call her daddy style.

I want to go back to the beginning for you guys in terms of you two met at Stanford.

You're in college, you meet.

Can you tell me your first impressions of each other and how you actually met?

Okay, so we met at a football game, right?

And Sophia, I was pretty intimidated by because she worked for the UN.

Her Instagram basically looked like this girl was a professional award receiver.

Okay.

It's like Times, New York Times, UN, saving the world with her nonprofit.

And so I obviously was super jealous of her.

I'm not going to lie.

And I thought she was a little bit of a freak because she put something on her story that was like sober squad, love college, like love being sober.

And I was like, well, she sounds like a whole lot of fun.

And so when I first met her, I was like, oh, and she's hot too.

I hate her so much.

That was my first impression of Sophia.

Was honestly, I feel like a lot of like jealousy.

I was like, this girl's pretty cool.

But it really took, I want to say a year for us to bond.

And it was frankly an accident because there was another girl we were supposed to room with, and she ended up living with her boyfriend.

So we end up getting screwed and we have to live with each other.

And I'm like, oh, great.

Sober squad and me can't wait for an awesome year of talking about sustainability.

I'm like throwing away my plastic water bottles, like hiding the sheen shirt I have.

And I didn't even know this.

Look at some.

You hit the sheen

I did.

I threw them all away.

I got recyclable battles for you.

Wow.

Thank you.

Thank you, Phoebe.

Well, I was like, okay, I am in my bag and I am here on a mission.

I am going to graduate from Stanford.

I'm going to law school.

Like, I'm bossed up.

This irrelevant person does not matter.

No, I'm just going to go.

Okay.

Then we go, we got dinner one night because we find out we're going to be rooming together and we're talking and she'd been dating her boyfriend for about like five years.

You dated for like half a decade.

Four years.

Whoa.

It was four years.

Okay.

Almost.

something.

Almost had a decade.

And we're at dinner.

And I was like,

it's very clear to me, your parents are getting divorced.

And she was like, how do you know that?

And I was like, just your emotional state, everything you're talking about.

Because I had gone through, my parents had had a very, very public divorce.

And I really couldn't tell many people about it, especially because like it was going on for, you know, so long in our household before it was announced.

And so I really felt like this built up pressure and I could just see that in her.

And that was the moment then we ended up, you know, sitting and talking for four hours together.

And I'm like, okay, honey, you need to dump your boyfriend though, because we had, I had just gone through a breakup and she was like, me and my boyfriend, we're getting married.

Like, I'm going to be a senator.

It's going to be incredible.

Senator?

Yes.

Oh, my God.

So really, it was so crazy because.

We become roommates.

We don't really know each other at all.

We're like randomly.

We had that one dinner.

It was a heart to heart.

And you were a little mad at me because I said you needed to break up with your.

I did.

And I was delusional.

And I was like, this bitch is trying to sabotage me.

She doesn't realize he's my husband.

Whatever.

She was in her bag.

Of course.

I was like, why did you think she needed to break up with him?

He was like, I just think if you were a senator it'd be hard for the kids

and I'm like what kids and also how is that how you're gonna react to this like that is so negative but I'm still delusionally believing he's my childhood sweetheart whatever we're gonna get married and then me and Phoebe are talking she's like you're gonna break up with him I'm like she's literally trying to sabotage me fast forward we're roommates this was actually before we're roommates this is like lore we're roommates I've very recently broken up with him I'm basically like sobbing trying to keep it together I'm not in my bag at all I'm a mess the bag has fallen off And Phoebe's like, are you okay?

What's wrong?

And I'm like, we did break up us.

She's like, I knew it.

But then she actually ends up being the most incredible person on the planet, like the most supportive friend, gives me such good advice.

And I was like, whoa, I love this girl.

Like we actually, and I'm like fake tanning at 2 a.m.

I'm butt naked.

She's talking to me.

We're talking for hours.

And I'm like, this is my soul sister.

We really just got along instantly after I stopped being like a robot and I broke down my walls and I just opened up and I actually talked about what was going on.

And we talked about like, yeah, the divorces, the ex-boyfriends, like we realized how much we had in common.

It was

the fact that you guys kind of went from like enemies to lovers is kind of iconic.

It was a true arc.

It was a true arc.

Hello.

But I love though how Phoebe, you said, which I think is like a very relatable thing for women.

It's like, okay, I was jealous and I thought she had all this.

How did you go from feeling like competitive jealous to all of a sudden being like, wait, I actually can like mutually have a good relationship with this person and not feel like I have to compete.

Cause I feel like especially being at such like a high level school and you guys both wanting to have such successful careers, like where do you think the competitiveness kind of

died out a little bit?

I think honestly, it's not about it.

I mean, for me, there was.

I had to find myself first because right, I was so insecure.

I was going into Stanford.

I wanted to be pre-med because I knew my sister was pre-med and I wanted to do that better.

And figuring out, you know, I'm still figuring myself out, but having confidence in myself and my own decisions was a big thing.

And now in the company, each having our own lanes.

And then I realized I was like, well, we're both very competitive people.

What if instead of like this being against each other, like it could be together?

And I think that's the thing is it's not like that has gone away, but it's, we just drive each other so hard.

We're both like foot to the gas pedal.

And also seeing that like.

Frankly, you know, I was asleep in my bed and I hear one night Sophia in front of the mirror, completely by herself go,

this fake tan is developing wonderfully.

Wakes me up so loud, wakes me up.

She's saying it over and over to herself crazy person and i open my door

and i see her butt naked in front of the mirror like this just by herself no boys are over there and that was the like i think finding out and really humanizing her for me was the biggest thing was gaining confidence and then humanizing her and then being like wait what if we took this like competitive energy and then brought it together to actually like build something and now we've birthed fia i am obsessed with you being like the moment I knew is when she was naked in front of the mirror, just really like relishing in her fake tan.

Can you tell me the story though, Sophia, of you made up in college that you had an assistant?

So in college, I discovered that I'm doing public speaking and you're supposed to get paid when you public speak and I need to pay my Stanford tuition.

So I'm like, hey, like, can you give me $100 to do this speech?

Everyone laughs at my face.

They're like, absolutely not.

So I'm like, okay, well, how can I get people to pay me?

And one of my friends goes, well, you can have a fake assistant, make it a man and make him negotiate your deals for you.

And I'm like, that's so psychotic.

You're a genius.

I'm going to do that.

That is so psychotic.

So I create like Kobe Sophia team at gmail.com or something.

I have a friend named Kobe.

I'm so paranoid.

I'm like, I'm going to put you on the phone.

If anyone ever asks, you're my assistant.

Okay.

He's like, you're psychotic.

But I'm like, it's going to work.

So Kobe, every time someone emailed me, I'm like looping in my assistant, Kobe, to take it from here.

Kobe's a hard ass.

He's like, Sophia has spoken at all these places.

Her rates are

this and this.

He starts out with like $1,000.

He's like, she's going to speak for $1,000.

I'm like, shitting my pants.

I'm like, everyone's going to think I'm a fraud.

This is so much money.

They're like, done.

Absolutely.

Whatever Miss Kiani desires.

I'm like, I am Miss Kiani now.

I am Miss Kiani now.

Picture you writing as Kobe being like $1,000.

I'm pressing send.

I could see you like panicking, walking around.

I was so paranoid.

I would change the way that Kobe did his grammar to not sound like me.

I would capitalize weirdly.

Then when I had to loop myself back in, I would talk and sign off my emails in a different way.

I had a whole elaborate scheme going on.

And then I was telling Phoebe, I eventually got in way over my head.

I promoted chief of staff to my chief of staff because I was like, 1,000, let's try 5,000.

Like, let's keep upping the stakes.

We actually had a guest on the burnouts recently.

And she's like, I don't know if you remember, but I actually talked to Kobe when you were in college.

And I'm literally like about to to die of embarrassment.

I'm genuinely so embarrassed.

And she's like, you looped in Kobe and then you were like, Sophia would love to do this, but you need to cover her travel and accommodations.

And she also needs a speaking stipend.

And I'm like, so embarrassed.

I am actually about to die.

And she was like, honestly, at the time, I was like, I don't think a college student would have an assistant, but I love this for her.

And honestly, this does make sense.

Like, I will, and she paid me.

She literally paid me, paid for my flights, whatever, because of Kobe.

No, this is so genius.

I think it's so genius.

Also, the biggest factor that I took from this, which I wouldn't have thought of, is like that you made it a man.

I know.

Because when a man is like, no, this is like, it's just the world we live in.

And it was so smart of you to be like, I'm going to advocate for myself through a fake man.

And look how much I can get out of this fucking man.

That's Kobe.

That is genius.

It's so that's a good hack.

It's a really good hack.

If anyone is listening, boom, have a male fake assistant.

Oh my God, this is genius.

Do you guys have any other like hacks that you can share with the daddy gang in business that are like little tricks?

Unhinged.

Okay.

I told Phoebe I was going to take this to the grave with me because I genuinely also

agreed.

Like I wanted to gatekeep it because it's such a good hack.

So when I got into Stanford, I was like, oh my God, I need to apply for scholarships.

Like I need to have scholarships to pay for college.

I'm applying for these scholarships and they all have this section where it's like, include links about yourself if there are articles about you.

And I'm like, the fuck?

How the hell do you have an article written about you?

That's so crazy.

So I'm like, okay, how do I get a journalist to write an article about me?

And I, you know, I use this thing called Rocket Reach.

You can find anyone's email.

Anyway, so I'm emailing all these journalists.

Obviously, they're like, who is this psychotic 19-year-old trying to pitch herself?

She's so embarrassing.

I was so embarrassing.

So I'm like, okay, this isn't working.

I need another way.

I go on Twitter and go look at these journalists.

By the grace of God, I see this one journalist and she posts this thing that's like hashtag journal request, looking for a source to speak about climate change, something like that.

and i'm like me me me me me me me me me i signed to her dms i email her whatever first time i am ever in a story and i'm like there must be more of this i go to this hashtag hashtag journal request it's like hundreds of journalists every single day they are posting looking for people to interview for things and i'm like i am going to email every single person who is doing this and i am going to have links kobe email sorry yeah kobe's emailing them

i'm going to email all of these people and i'm going to have articles to link in my scholarship application.

And let me tell you, my friends all were like, are you famous or something?

Do you have a PR person?

Like, how are you every single week?

Phoebe's like professional award receiver.

Yeah, because I engineered it.

Like I was literally like every week I am DMing these people.

I'm emailing these people, whatever, because I'm like, I need links to put in these scholarship applications.

And fast forward, I think the most important thing to say is I ended up going on this interview live on TV because of a journal request and they thought I was a good fit.

So I go on, I talk about my climate change background, I talk about my climate change nonprofit, my UN work, whatever.

And I swear to God, it was like a miracle.

These people emailed me and said, We run this scholarship organization, we have closed applications for the season, but we heard your story, we thought it was so amazing.

We would love to extend you an invite to apply for a scholarship.

And I'm like, this cannot be real.

And I apply and I got the scholarship.

And it was all because of this fucking journal request hack.

Sophia, I feel like that is so

what people need to hear also today of like, sometimes you just have to put yourself out there, even as like embarrassing as it can feel, even if you feel like you're faking it and you're just like getting yourself in the door because you are qualified and you.

do deserve if people are going to pay you that amount of money, even though you felt awkward to ask for it or when you went to get the scholarship, even though you had to bust through certain doors and like do like random things to get there.

I feel like that is like a hack of, that's a great hack for people to be like, go for it in any way you can.

And there is no fucking shame.

There's no shame.

You can't create your own luck.

Like that's the reality.

Can we talk about you guys then finally deciding to work together?

Because you're obviously talking about like you guys had your things.

You were talking pre-med.

You're talking about all of this.

Like.

Then you guys eventually come to be like, I think we want to work together.

Can you talk about how you decided?

Like when did you guys come together and be like, let's make this?

So I'm on my journal journal request wave because I'm doing my stuff in women's reproductive health.

So I was focusing on like access to birth control, access to abortion, et cetera, after Roe v.

Wade was overturned.

And so I'm all in this mindset of like, what if we work together on something, you know, joint activism-y, because that's what we were both interested in at the time.

And so our first idea together wasn't even going to be a company.

We wanted to create.

like a smart Bluetooth tampon low-key like an aura ring for your pussy.

We realized very quickly there was no monetization model behind it.

We didn't know how the hell we would do it.

We honestly didn't know what it would really do.

But that kind of kick-started this like crazy, I want to say almost manic like sense of like, let's just come up with an idea, lock ourselves in our dorm room for a week and like see what we can create.

We came up with, I'm going to be honest with you, the dumbest ideas for the first like month.

There were rumors spread all around campus that we had fallen off the earth, that we had fallen in love with each other.

And so.

But as we keep building, the one thing we came back to was like our own experience of, okay, we're roommates.

We're always arguing over clothes and frankly like it's kind of bullshit that the shopping environment hasn't developed in the last 10 years like how come i'm on a site and i don't know if i should buy an item or not why isn't ai able to tell me hey this is a good deal or this is not a good deal where's my little shopping assistant and so we're like what if we could create a shopping assistant or a shopping hack, be it your Kobe for shopping.

So we were like, what if we did something like with our names together, Fia?

And that's how the idea was originally born.

But it took a lot of bad ideas.

I'm not going to lie.

Was there any hesitation because you guys are now best friends to be like we're actually gonna get in business together or no was that no hesitation we did a day where we wrote down our strengths and weaknesses and that was brutal you to write about each other oh we did our own and then we did each other's yeah getting in business with a friend is obviously like there is a risk but i think it's also there's an upside to like it's kind of similar to maybe how i feel kind of with matt where it's like you guys trust each other we don't know how you do it with matt we talk about that all the time really That we can never do it with our boyfriends ever in a million years.

We're like, this is so much easier because I don't know how you don't take it home.

I would, we, I would go crazy.

I think we just have found this like weird balance where we know how sacred both.

elements are.

And it's like the minute we can tell one of us is like burnt out, we're like, let's stop talking about work.

But we also just like, it's our passion.

We love it.

Like I don't feel like it's work.

So, and then the minute it does feel like it's too much, then we're like, okay, stop.

But I think it's beautiful that you guys have found this like perfect rhythm.

Well, perfect.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You guys are still figuring it out, right?

Like, it's not perfect.

That people don't realize though.

So one thing I'll say is every time we do an interview, they always want like us to hate each other.

They're always asking.

If it's, especially if we interview individually, they'll always ask me, what do I hate about Sophia?

What does she hate about me?

It's so fucked.

Because they really want like the beef between the two women, I think, which I think is really interesting because you see in all narratives, like when you have women in business, they always want there to be some sort of cat fight.

And I think the

clarification is me and sophia fight all the time i mean we're co-founders and best friends but it's about like having something so we can figure out at the end of the day like okay we disagree on this but like if you think that color blue is better like let's just go for it and if it's wrong we'll get rid of it like and then we'll do you know my idea next and so that's like the biggest thing i think we've learned is just argue really fast and we have something where we limit arguments to what five minutes now so at the end of it we're like okay decision like i'm so mad i did it i'm like five minutes ding ding ding ding ding we're not we're not talking about

like we need to decide what the next step is.

So, even like you're getting it off the chest, and then at the end of the five minutes, like, okay, what are the action items?

Okay, if Phoebe's mad, Phoebe, go for a walk, Phoebe, go get latte, Phoebe, go take a nap, Phoebe, come back, or you know, let's make a decision, let's try this.

And then if it fails, okay, great.

We'll try it for a week and then do your idea.

But I love what you said, Phoebe, because it's so real.

Where, yes, people want, whenever there is a duo,

people want to be like, how is it not working?

And the reality is, if anyone's like, it's so perfect, just like a marriage, just like a friendship and a business relationship, nothing is perfect.

And I think it's, there should be healthy arguments.

Like, and again, it's how you argue is the key factor.

The fact that you guys have this like structure where you're like, five minutes, let's get through it.

That's so healthy.

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Okay, Sophia, you have talked about feeling pressured to be the perfect immigrant daughter and have more of like a traditional stable career that you felt like at one point you probably would make your family happy if you went that way.

Can you talk about how you ultimately decided to take the risk and go for something that wasn't as predictable and stable?

120%.

The only reason I was able to take that leap of faith, move to New York City and work on the company was because of Phoebe.

I think, honestly, throughout college, it was very much for me, fake it until you make it.

Like I put on this confident aura.

deeply still, I was insecure and scared.

And for the first time, it was like seeing this person who believed in us and honestly who believed in me that we could do this together made me tell my parents, listen, like I'm taking a leave of absence.

I'm leaving Stanford.

I know I worked so hard for this.

Like I know this was my dream, but I need to do this.

Like this is our calling.

And it was honestly only because of Phoebe, because she said, I know we can do it.

I know this is an opportunity.

You need to believe in yourself because I believe in us.

And I was like, you're so right.

And I want to do this.

I don't want to be an environmental lawyer.

I don't want to work for the UN.

I want to build this company with you for the next five or 10 years.

Like, we can do it.

You're right.

And it's just so surreal to think, yeah, we were bumbling and fumbling in our dorm room, building a smart tampon.

We had no idea what we were doing.

And now, like, we launched FIA and we launched a product we are genuinely so proud of that we poured like our blood, sweat, and tears into.

And it was all because Phoebe was like, it's worth it.

We can take the leap of faith.

Stanford will always be there.

It's worth it.

Can I ask?

Because obviously, you guys sitting on this couch, you have such different backgrounds.

And like you,

Sophia talking about wanting to get scholarships and getting the scholarships and trying to figure out how to get in the door that way.

And then Phoebe coming from a place of privilege and you both kind of like having this like beautiful opposite energy of where you both came from.

Like how have you guys like found an equal feeling to merge your independent lives and your backgrounds into one in a business?

I think it's about Phoebe really made me understand like you are a byproduct of your own beliefs.

And if they're self-limiting, that's how your life is going to pan out.

Like you can't have a scarcity mindset.

And I think especially when you come from a background where you're being pushed to do something really typical, like climb the career ladder, get the pedigree.

You never think about what if, like, what if you take that risk?

And Phoebe being able to do that for me has everything to do with just who she is as a person.

Like that's just how you're wired.

Phoebe, you coming from a place of privilege, your dad being Bill Gates, did you ever feel like it's been difficult to make a name for yourself and really like carve your own path and not just be like Bill Gates' daughter?

Yeah, I think 100%.

But the tough thing is it's like, yeah, that's difficult, but that comes with so much privilege, right?

Like I didn't have to fight for a scholarship in college.

Like I didn't, I knew my college was going to be paid for.

I had incredible opportunities because of my parents.

Like if I didn't have my parents as my rock, like I wouldn't have been able to have these incredible opportunities.

So yes, it came with the thing of like, oh yeah, I am in my parents' shadows.

And like, you know, it is going to be tough to make a name for myself.

I had to learn very early on who were true friends, who weren't true friends.

But honestly, like, I think all in all, like, I have.

an incredibly privileged life.

And so I think saying that is like, oh, it's, it's a hardship.

It isn't really for me because it's like, I've been so blessed with what I've been given by my parents.

And I'm never going to pretend I haven't been.

Obviously, we've all seen like the nepotism conversation online.

And I think that's like, there's not a right answer.

Cause if people are like, what do you want them to say?

And I do feel that from you since the day I've met you, like you're so hardworking, you're so smart.

And yes, you have this privilege, but it's beautiful to see what you're doing with it.

In a,

I guess what I would want to ask, because I know you're not saying you're like, feel bad for me, but like, how have you walked into rooms and in moments?

How do you deal with it when you can feel someone's maybe not, not not taking you seriously, but being like, oh, it's like Bill's daughter, like we'll just like take the meeting or whatever.

Like, have you, how have you been like, no, I am an individual and I am smart and I do deserve to be here?

Like, how do you push through those feelings of imposter syndrome, but then also knowing your worth?

I think it's really about what Sophia said, fake it till you make it.

I used to lean too hard of, and this is something we've discussed a lot, too hard on the side of I would overshare consistently of like where I'd messed up, there things had gone wrong, because I wanted people to feel like I was a real human and not just like, you know, a figure or like a figment of my parents.

And so I used to lean too hard on the over-sharing side.

And then I realized like, fake it till you make it.

Like if I feel like I am my own person stepping into that room, because frankly, once you get inside a room, it doesn't matter how you got there.

Once your foot is in that door, you're there.

And I think that was like the biggest learning.

And then frankly, honestly, not even like something that I did myself.

or either of us did, but finding really strong female mentors that were there because they liked us was a huge thing for us.

And so finding those people who could say, yeah, you think that's tough for you?

Walking into a room and everyone thinks you're just Bill Gates' daughter.

Yeah.

Okay, honey.

Imagine walking into a room in tech in 1965.

Like, you think you have a tough babe?

Like, watch what I did.

See, see the empire I built.

And learning from those women has been so critical of how do you like be true to yourself and be your own person.

I completely agree.

I love also what you said about having women as mentors.

I feel like, I mean, that's literally how we even got connected is like the more, I feel like it's very isolating as a woman in business to connect with other women because there, there is that like scarcity mindset where you see online people trying to tear women down if they're succeeding.

And when you see a man succeeding, everyone's like, oh, that's so hot and attractive and go him.

And when a woman is succeeding, it's like, well, she must have done something bad.

Who did she fuck?

Who did she fuck?

Who does she know?

Or who did it for her?

And she's like just the face of it.

Like there's, they're always trying to tear it down.

I think when men are assertive also in business, people are like, wow, this is so attractive and a great quality.

As where when a woman is assertive in business, she's considered a bitch.

How have you guys navigated being women in business, being business owners and bosses and navigating all of it?

I think it's easy because we're bitches.

Oh,

we lay down the law.

That's the reality.

So Leah,

we are hardcore bitches.

I know, what if we all just start saying like, yeah, I'm the biggest bitch.

I'm such a fucking bitch.

Like, yup.

And what else?

Like, it is kind of like, yeah, just own it.

I think the hardest thing for us was learning.

originally how to fire people because i feel like as a woman you are asked to be everything when someone reaches out for you and wants you know support or wants advice you feel like you need to respond to that email or you're not giving back you know you're not helping out there's this you know aspect where you feel like you need to show up as a girlfriend as a friend and a founder and so i think for us learning really early on to separate the emotions be like i can't be everything for someone Like, I can't be someone's emotional support.

I can't be their friend necessarily if they're my employee and I have to let them go.

I have to have a wall there of how I do it.

And I feel like we allow men to have that wall, but we don't let women have that.

It's so fucking true.

And hearing you say that, I'm just thinking about like how many women are listening to this episode right now and have tried to go in and advocate for themselves in the workplace, let's say.

How many women have walked in and asked for something, whether it's a raise or fair treatment or whatever it be.

And I know as a woman, because I've done it myself, we're always apologizing, like, sorry, like, I know you don't have that much time.

And it's like, a man would never walk in and feel anxious and feel like they have to kind of like placate the energy and kind of like also throw in a smile and also throw in like a compliment.

And we, as women, I feel like we have all these little cushions that we surround the hard truth information that we want to deliver.

Because as a woman, we need to be graceful and we can't be a bitch.

And we want to come off as sweet and kind and not intimidating.

Where a man is like, I think I deserve the rave.

This is the things that I've done to deserve it.

And let me know if I, if you can give me the raise or not.

I think that's a great piece of advice to women is maybe we need to start really thinking to ourselves.

Emotion, yes, it's what we've trained.

We've been trained to do since we were born.

But when it comes to business, you are as deserving as the person out there with a fucking penis.

And so start moving forward and acting like that and be like, you know what?

Let me try it.

Cause I've been doing this recently.

And as scary as it is to wonder, like, oh my God, is someone going to call me a bitch?

I've just been way more direct.

Running a business, you have to be direct.

Is it scary?

Fuck yes, because I'm also in a public situation where someone could go and be like, Alex is a bitch.

I'm like, no, I just told you the job wasn't good enough.

If that makes me a bitch, totally fine.

But if it came out of Matt's mouth, you would have, if anything, been like, okay, damn, I want to go work harder.

So I like this that you're saying of like firing people or being trying to be everything for everyone.

You can't.

So maybe we just need to start saying, fuck it.

And if the, if the word gets out that you're a bitch, okay, you're doing just fine.

What has been the hardest double standard you guys feel like you've had to overcome together?

Children, always children.

We'll have investors ask us all the time, well, what happens when you two go have babies?

And I remember one time like crying about that.

I called my mom and she was like, get up or get out the game, sis.

I was like, damn.

But I think just like the assumption that, you know, in your career, if you're a woman and if an investor puts in money and you're going to be around for 10 years, that like, you know, that you're going to have kids and then you're going to fuck off.

Someone asked that to us, like literally an investor on a call was like, so what's going to happen to your company when you have kids?

And we were like, what's going to happen to your venture firm when you have kids?

I was like, Sophia, calm it down.

Calm it down.

I'm like, what about you, huh?

And he's like,

why would that affect anything?

And I was like, you answered your own question.

It's so true and it's so crazy because that's not a one-off.

It's wild you say that.

I just had someone ask me the same thing.

No way.

We were talking about a specific thing for business that we were considering launching and someone asked me about my timeline for kids.

And I was like, oh my God.

And it's like, imagine ever asking a man that.

Listen, I get it, that our bodies are going through something that the man doesn't have to go through.

However, like it's.

It's so inappropriate.

And in my brain, when I have a kid, I'm like, Matt, we're 50, 50, if anything.

You're 70 and I'm 30 because I already have an extra fucking 100% that's on me anyways.

So step up, buddy.

Like

that is so crazy.

Wow.

Do you have any advice for women in the workplace when they're dealing with this like kids timeline, all of it?

Like, obviously, none of us have kids right now, but like, how do you deal with it?

Keep a wind sheet.

Always, my biggest hack is keep a wind sheet of things that you've done.

I had someone come to me recently and they, they wanted something.

They wanted to do a project or something.

And they came with a win sheet of here's everything I've done for the business.

Here's how I've affected the bottom line.

Here's the things I've created.

And I was like, oh my God, you're so right.

You did do all those things.

I thought I did those.

But it's like, no, you did those things.

Like, of course, then you deserve this.

And I think having that, because then you can't be doubted.

You can't be on your back foot of, oh, what's going to happen when, you know, you're a mother, blah, blah, blah.

If you can show up to your boss and say, this is my win sheet, this is what I've created for the company.

And this is what I deserve.

I think that's the biggest thing.

And having writing that down, even for yourself, when you start to doubt yourself and going to look at that is a huge thing.

Such good advice.

Cause it's also like, don't worry about that.

I'll handle that.

This is what I've done.

And I'm going to continue to do it.

And just don't answer questions you don't want to answer.

Sophia's taught me this so much.

Like in.

when someone asks you something and it's necessarily in a professional setting, it's not a conversation.

It's a question and it's a response.

And your response doesn't need to be an answer to that question, especially like in any sort of media setting.

It's just a response.

So you can twist that and say whatever you want and spin it into your thing.

You just need to respond.

You don't need to answer their question because sometimes people ask inappropriate questions.

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Okay, you guys are obviously so well put together but we're gonna play a game called have you ever been unwell i'm gonna give you an unwell scenario and you tell me if it has ever happened to you have you ever embarrassed yourself in front of someone famous sophia that's all you say this is such an embarrassing story and phoebe knows exactly what i'm talking about because i talk about it all the time because i i just can't forget it because i'm so embarrassed but we went to so michael rubin had this charity party for it was like a poker charity party right we're freaking freaking out.

This is so cool.

All these cool people are there.

We're like, oh my God, we look need to look amazing, whatever.

So my domass wears like these five-inch stiletto heels because I need to look like a bomb ass bitch.

And so we go to this poker night thing.

And I'm like walking down the stairs, being like, don't fall, don't fall, don't fall.

It's a huge, like, it's like, so here's the entire pork room.

There's probably what, 200 people in here, and there's a staircase like this.

We think we're having our moment.

No one knows who we are.

No one has any idea but each other.

We're walking down the stairs.

Done, done, done, done.

Like slow motion.

I'm like

Cinderella's story.

You're like, I'm a ride.

Exactly.

I fucking tumble.

Like, I'm not even joking.

It was like a movie.

Like two flights of stairs.

Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

Bum.

I like collapse on the floor.

I am literally, I swear to God, gushing blood from my leg.

I'm wearing a long dress.

No one can see it.

I'm gushing blood.

I'm like, I have a concussion.

And then I look up.

I'm dizzy.

I think it's Phoebe.

And I'm like, yo, bro, I need help.

And then literally, she goes, yo, bro.

It is Jay-Z.

No.

It is fucking Jay-Z being like, hey, are you okay?

I'm literally like, he goes, that was really embarrassing.

I'm like, I literally can't speak.

I'm just like,

yeah.

And he literally goes, I know, you're embarrassed, right?

It's okay.

Don't be.

It's going to be okay.

Are you okay?

I'm like, yes, sir.

Absolutely.

I am so okay.

Do not worry at all.

I am so good.

Please, please, just, please leave.

I'm going to start crying.

Please, please, please, please, please go away.

Can you take his hand?

Yes, of course.

I take his hand.

He's so, he was such a gentleman.

He was so sweet.

He literally was like, hey, like, do you need someone to come over here?

And I'm like, no, no, I promise.

I'm so okay.

This is so embarrassing.

Everyone's looking at me.

Please stop.

You're like, no, I just need to leave.

I was like, I need to leave.

And then anyway, he like helps me up so sweet and then leaves.

And then Phoebe walks over.

And I'm like,

I

am so embarrassed.

I need to leave.

Like, I'm literally gushing blood.

Phoebe's like, no, I want to go play poker.

Phoebe is a black chack god.

Do you want to tell her what happened after this?

Much more important, actually, part of this one.

Well, I'm kind of a loser.

So, before the party, I had memorized the stats of how you can win blackjack.

Like, what are the most, you know, the best statistical plays to win?

Cause it's a game of luck, right?

And I was at, somehow, I ended up at a table with Tom Brady and I ended up beating him in Blackjack, which Sophia will not stop talking about.

I talk about it every day.

You shouldn't stop talking about it.

I talk about it every day.

That's actually so cool.

I'm gushing blood, losing this game.

I have no idea how to play.

I look over.

The whole crowd is around phoebe the

fucking mastermind beating tom brady at blackjack and everyone's like who is that i told everyone i was an influencer i'm like it's called img and i model for them it's it was tough dna and img they had a lot of debate over me but it's uh you know it's been a busy career meanwhile you're like counting cards but he's still like he says it to you like i ran into him once recently and he was like blackjack i was like that is so okay i'm again like tom brady knows who you are.

This is so insane.

He doesn't know my name.

He just knows I was the girl with like the ink written of the different stats on my hands.

He knows you're an immoderate.

Phoebe, you're a model influencer.

Wait, okay, speaking of famous people, your boyfriend is the grandson of Paul McCartney.

Indeed.

Are you a Beatles person?

Oh, man.

It's so bad.

Like, I'm so bad at music.

I mean, my family, like, we're so nerdy.

So I knew nothing about music.

Like, I knew about tech stuff growing up, not music stuff.

So I remember like early on, he was like so excited.

Like, he thought he was a RISME.

He took me to an Elton John concert.

And Elton John comes out in like a bedazzled tracks.

And I'm like, is Elton John gay?

His entire family starts dying laughing.

And now we've been dating like almost two years.

Every time I see them, they're like, oh, it's Elton John Kay.

Oh my God, you're like, this girl went to Stanford.

It's Elton John Kay.

Oh, are you kidding me?

No.

Unfortunately, Arthur does not have any musical talent.

I've been trying to get him to serenade me for a very long time, but it has not happened.

It's not okay that you're like, Elton John.

They're like, you dumb bitch.

Okay, but you're learning.

Yes, I am learning.

Okay, that's good for you.

Okay.

Have you ever ghosted someone?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I feel like you're so good at ghosting people on the low.

I just, yeah, I don't respond.

I mean, I'm so bad at my inbox.

I have ADHD that I just randomly ghost people.

I'm not going to lie.

What is the most unhinged lie you've ever told to get out of plans?

Sophia, yeah.

Okay, well, Phoebe would always make fun of me in college because I was...

I had a template email.

A template lie email.

I had a template lie email because I was trying to juggle so much in college with all our work.

Justify it system.

And my own, like my climate and my UN stuff, whatever.

I had so much going on.

And I obviously always needed a deadline extension.

They just keep talking to you.

Like, and then this is the reason I also had to do it.

And then this is the reason I, what, what did you do?

So I had a folder of images.

This sounds so crazy.

So psychotic.

So I had a folder of images that I had with like really random, like weird, crazy people, right?

No, with famous people.

With famous people, but like the Pope famous, not like Dolly and the Pope and Malala were in this folder.

Yes, Malala Pope.

And one photo of her in the hospital from when she had the salvation.

I did use that hospital photo many times.

And so I have a folder of photos that I know I can attach to an email that guarantees me a get out of jail free card.

When you tell your professor, I'm so sorry, I am meeting the Pope this week.

I really need an extension.

They are all like, absolutely, you get the extension.

100%.

It always worked.

Phoebe's like.

You're going to hell.

She is one of them.

I have an email with Dalai Lama, one with the Pope, one with some, a couple different climate guys.

And then one is the, this horrific photo I took of her in the hospital when like a TA would be like, why'd you miss class?

She'd be like, so sorry.

I have E.

cola.

I'm very ill.

And you're fucking attaching a hospital photo.

I did.

I have a cell.

It was a selfie of me going like this in my hospital.

Oh, yeah.

I'll pull it up.

With like my hospital band.

So they put it because I was like, I'm really sick right now.

And they're like, it's due tomorrow.

And I'm like, I'm literally in the hospital.

Can you, you are so mean.

You're horrible.

You're horrified.

That is kind of so genius.

Although the fucking hospital one, I can't design.

Cause I get if you say you're in the hospital, most teachers are going to be like, go fuck yourself.

No, you're not.

Like, where are the receipts?

But then a selfie as opposed to just like the paperwork is fucking nice.

I'm like, I'm so sorry.

I'm delirious.

This is the only thing I can send you.

This is literally like I'm in the hospital.

Like,

do you know what a horrible person you have to be to tell someone they can't have an extension if they have literally given you a selfie in the hospital?

And I'm green.

I like, it would just be so awkward because sometimes we'd have like overlapping TAs for different classes and they'd come up to me like oh so bum Sophia missed last week and then I would try to suss out the conversation to see what email she had sent them because I'm not sure if it's like a oh yeah like it's so cool like she did meet the pope last week how great is that versus like did she send the hospital selfie email because that's like a little different conversation I have to have so I'd be like as they're like talking like

yes it is very interesting that she missed that

I will always tell Phoebe you have to fucking cover for me bro I'm dead I'm like literally dead at the hospital Phoebe one time is like how incredible and they're like she's in the hospital hospital.

She was green.

I'm like, incredibly sad is what it is.

It really is.

That girl, she works herself too hard.

Dude, Sylvia, you're fucking savvy over there.

You're coming up with some good ass shit.

Okay, let's talk relationship.

Have you guys ever gone for the same guy?

There was a guy, we'll say.

Alejandro,

because I like Spanish.

So both of us have these relationships that end.

He ended up being both of our rebounds.

Importantly, my rebound first, I'd just like to say.

but i like this guy is gorgeous and the reality is there's like three attractive guys at stanford so it's absolutely blown out of proportion and alejandro was like i was i mean i was down bad this guy was like not interested i think we made out like a couple times and he not look he was like pretty narcissistic and

hella hella narcissistic My favorite quote from him is saying that he was the best person that Sophia had ever met and Dolly Lama and Pope were number two and three tied.

This guy's psycho.

He's psycho.

But I warned Sophia after her breakup.

I was like, be very careful.

Like, you're going through a breakup.

Like, we've been there.

I've been down bad for Alejandro.

We know there's no one else on this campus.

Avoid Alejandro at all costs.

He's a witch.

And Sophia's like, please, like, I'm a bad bitch.

Like, I'm never going to fall for this trap.

Like, you're so stupid.

And I was like, okay, but like, just so you know, like, if you and Alejandro get together, like, I'm not going to be upset.

Like, I understand there's literally one attractive guy on this campus and I can point to him.

And,

but I'm just going to warn you, like, it's not going to end well.

My relationship has ended.

And I'm like, I'm, a guy's never going to look at me again.

I'm so devastated.

I don't know how to talk to boys.

And Alejandro comes.

He's like, long kind of like highlighting.

Yeah, but it's natural.

And he's like, so

sexy.

And he comes up to me at a party and he's like talking to me.

He's flirting with me.

I'm like, oh my God.

And this whole time I'm like, Phoebe, ew, I would never go for Alejandro.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

You're psychotic.

He comes over and woos me.

And then I go back and I'm like, Phoebe, Alejandro was flirting with me.

I'm really flustered.

I don't know what to do.

Phoebe's like, dude, go for it.

I get it.

But just know, like he on the low sucks.

And I'm like, but he was just so charismatic and beautiful and handsome and sweet and smart.

And oh my God, he's just the best.

And

it ended up in flames.

So now he texts us.

So we put him to therapy because what we did.

The next thing I know is I'm like, and if things get messed with Alejandro, I don't want to be included in this drama because I've already had a pep talk with him about me being down bad for him and like it not working out between us.

So I don't want to be involved if things go south with you two.

Next thing I know, I'm in a group chat with Sophia and Alejandro and she's texting him about how he should go to therapy, which apparently he did.

How long did each of you last with Alejandro?

Literally like two weeks.

It's like

a dream.

Mine was bad.

Like two months.

Oh, not like on and off for like two months, but now it's a bit where he's like, my company, my Fia, my girls.

Like, how are my ladies?

He's gonna be so gassed that he's included on this podcast.

Like, you don't understand the text we're about to get.

Wait, we're like best friends now.

He has like a really hot girlfriend.

We're really good.

It's actually really difficult.

The therapy fixed him.

Like, he's a good boy.

We were kind of hoping with karma that she wouldn't be cute.

We're like, nah, there's no way.

We looked at the Instagram.

It was very tough.

And you guys are like the stepping stones.

We were like bathe into a better man.

We did.

And now a deserving woman gets him.

But you guys are happily in your relationships.

Yes.

Yeah.

Can you explain to me?

Because I'm sure people are fascinated.

What is it like introducing a guy to your dad?

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What is it like introducing a guy to your dad?

I think terrifying for the guy for me, hilarious, because my dad's like pretty socially awkward.

Like he said he's, you know, has Asperger's.

Like to me, it's so funny.

But for guys, I think they get like really wigged out.

And I'll never forget like early in high school,

before I had like a long-term boyfriend.

It was like one of my first like dances, maybe my like sophomore or junior year.

And my mom had like signed my dad up to drive me and the boy to the dance together.

First off, my dad insisted on us listening to NPR the entire 30-minute drive.

He stopped for fast food.

Then he calls the guy.

He's like, be responsible tonight.

Max Diemenhauer.

His name was

Maxwell Dannenhauer.

Literally wanted to die.

But honestly, like, I think like now it's become easier for me because it's just funny.

Like when you introduce a guy to your dad and it's like depending on how he reacts that's how you know if he's going to be a good guy or not such a good point wait how are you and your dad different and similar uh we are i'm way more of a people person than he is he would a hundred percent say that like it used to be a joke of like our family would be so boring if i wasn't born i'd force my dad like at the dad daughter dances my mom would like have us go to i'd force my dad to go like talk to all the other dads and daughters there and he would get like nervous and leave and i was like no like if we're here we're going to socialize.

Like, we got to work this room, Bill.

Like, these other, these other dad and daughters, they're sweeping us up.

Like, we got to get out here.

So I'd say we're very different in that way.

I'd say in terms of similarness, we're both very competitive.

I mean, you do not want to play a board game with the two of us.

And that's actually worse than introducing a guy to my dad is my dad's always like, let's play pickleball.

Let's play a board game together.

Let's do a puzzle together.

And the second you do that, like the guy's like trying to put two pieces together.

My dad's like grabs the pieces out of his hands, like shoving them together.

So that is actually when it's really nerve-wracking to put a guy around my dad.

Like pickleball with my dad, he like puts on his glasses.

He's like, boom, boom.

Have you experienced this competitiveness?

Oh my God, this is so embarrassing.

But the first time that I met Bill, we were going to a concert or something.

And so it was like me and Phoebe and a couple friends.

And we were all staying at Phoebe's house.

And so her dad was there.

which I am an idiot.

And I obviously people's parents are at their houses.

So I literally have face gems all over my sustainable face gem company sent face gems to Sophia.

I was like, throw the burn those things.

She was like, these are immaculate.

Yes, I'm like, literally, like in my sparkly set with my face gems, blah, blah, blah.

I'm walking, I'm walking, I'm walking.

Boom, I run straight into Bill Gates.

And he's like,

wow, I like your outfit.

Who are you?

And I'm like, I'm.

Sophia.

I'm Phoebe's co-founder, actually.

We're in business together.

He's like, oh, it's really nice to meet you, Sophia.

I like your outfit.

I'm like, so, so nice to meet you, Bill.

So nice.

I need to go.

I need to go.

And then I'm literally like, Phoebe, why would you not tell me your dad is here?

This is so weird and embarrassing.

Like, I don't want to meet anyone's parents with fucking glitter all over my face.

And she's like, did you not think my parents were going to be here?

Like, hello.

Obviously, I just.

was dumb, but it was literally, I honestly still, every time I see your dad, I'm like, he probably thinks I'm so honestly probably does not remember at all.

I guarantee.

Right.

He's like, okay, this crazy bitch.

Anyways, bye, don't care.

That is, you're like, I wish I was in a suit.

Then he's really presenting.

But then honestly, like, look, it worked out.

You guys are still in business together.

Yes.

Okay, let's talk about Fia.

So by the time this comes out, you'll have been one week launched.

One, just tell me how much are you twitching to look at your phones right now?

Very much.

I'm like, I need to text FifthCroft.

You guys literally just launched.

Like, how are you feeling?

Honestly, it's been so exciting.

So Fia is currently on the top 100 shopping charts.

We were basically crying and then we were like, wait, wait, our makeup needs to look good for Call Her Daddy because we were so excited.

But honestly, it's just been such a long time in the making.

When we were in college, we probably had no idea that what we would end up launching is now FIA is an app and a shopping tool where basically as you're shopping in one click, it will find you the best price on fashion.

So it's like, say, you're looking at like a thousand dollar Gucci bag.

Fia pops up and then you ask it, should I buy it?

And it's like, girl, no, the price is high.

Like you can buy this for $250 on the Real Reel or on like eBay, whatever.

And then you can save like 75% off.

And so it was honestly the tool that we wished we had in college because what me and Phoebe really bonded over is we loved secondhand shopping, but it's just so hard.

There's so many sites.

Like you never know if like one reseller is scamming you or not.

And so we built this like really easy tool so that anyone while they're shopping can get this like instant price check, kind of like Google Flights for fashion.

And I honestly think we were really nervous this morning, but just seeing girls like DM us being like, wait, this is so smart.

Like this is so helpful.

Like now I can save time and money.

And like, I'm so glad that you guys built this and thought about us.

So someone listening today, walk me quickly through what do they do?

You go to the app store, you download FIA, you basically click a button that says, take me to Safari.

You go to Safari, you click, and then you turn on the extension, you toggle it on.

And then there's two pop-ups that show up.

And then you need to say, I want to allow FIA on every shopping website.

Every website is the key, not for one day, not for just this website.

Every website, that's where everyone falls off.

And then you're done.

It's honestly like one, two, three.

App,

toggle, permissions, you're done.

I'm so excited for you guys.

I'm excited for Fia.

I'm excited for the burnouts.

I think everything you guys are doing is so exciting.

And it's so nice to meet people and get to know people that are like so smart in such a different field than me.

I think it's like very stimulating to listen to you guys and talk to you guys because I think what we've probably all recognized is there's so much through line between all of these different industries.

And when you think that you can't relate, you're like, oh, there's all the same themes of being stressed, staying up late at night.

Like everyone listening is going to take something from this.

And it's inspiring to hear you guys talk about the story.

I love you guys.

This was so fun.

I feel like we got like a good amount of chaotic fun and also like really good advice.

And honestly, like the hacks, the hacks that you has journal requests.

No, it's crazy.

Hashtag journal request.

Everyone, go become a bad.

We're going to be eating that up before this goes nice next week because then the hack is going to be dead.

No, and we also need, we all need our own Kobe.

Okay.

No, I love you guys.

Thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy.

This was a dream.

You guys are amazing.

Congrats.

Thank you so much, Alex.

Download Fia on the App Store now.

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