Kristin Cavallari: So You Want to Date an Athlete? (FBF)

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What is up, Daddy Gang?

It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy.

Are we ready?

Okay.

That laugh.

I'm like, I know it so well.

It's like so weird to be in person with you.

Now, okay, okay.

Kristen Cavallari, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

Thank you.

I have always been a huge fan.

Laguna, the Hills, Hills, owned all the DVDs, would watch with my sister, would binge watch.

But another reason I was super excited to have you on was because I follow you on social media.

Oh, thanks.

I respect everything you're doing, your career, but specifically with your children, you deciding to not really show them and keep that part of their life private.

I mean,

I really respect it.

Thanks.

How did you decide to take that approach and protect your children by keeping them off social media?

Well, thank you because a lot of people don't understand it.

But if you go back to when I first joined Instagram, Camden, my oldest, is on there when he was a baby a little bit.

Okay.

And then we just decided that we wanted to give them the opportunity to make that decision.

You know, my kids may want no part of being known or whatever.

And I want to respect that and give them that chance to decide when they're old enough.

Yeah, I feel like that's like a huge debate on social media because so many people with social media are posting even like they're infants.

Yeah.

And then there's the debate of like, wait, that's kind of fucked up because they don't have a say and now their whole life is going to be documented and then they're going to get to high school and people are going to be like, I have all these Instagram photos of you.

But I think it's a really, it's a really good decision.

And I definitely want to do that when I have children.

When do you think they'll get on social media?

I hope not until they're like 20.

You're like, I'm not giving them a phone.

They're never going to be.

16, I'd say it's probably realistic and

long enough where hopefully they have decently thick skin and can handle some criticism.

Because ultimately, like, that's my biggest concern with it: just how nasty people can be on social media.

So,

yeah.

And when it's your kids, it's like, I want to do everything to protect them.

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There was no social media when you were growing up, but I'm curious, did you have aspirations at all to be on television?

I did.

And it wasn't really until high school, but before MTV came, I wanted to study broadcast journalism and kind of work my way in the entertainment world through hosting.

But then MTV came and everything just kind of fell in my lap.

And I thought, well, you know, when I graduated high school, I moved up to LA.

I started at Loyola Marymont.

I literally went to one class, like literally one class.

And then I booked a job on UPN, which you guys probably don't even remember that network, but it was a network back in the day.

I was hosting a show.

And so my excuse was, well, I'm traveling around the country.

I obviously can't go to college.

And not that I want to like promote not going to college, but it's the best thing I ever could have done.

College would have done nothing for me.

Right.

Cause you already kind of had a career set in stone because you started in high school, which is like not normal, especially for like television.

You're in high school.

Now we got to go through it.

Okay.

And MTV picks you to be on their new show.

Yeah.

What did your parents say when you asked them if you could be on this show?

Well, so I was living with my dad in Laguna Beach.

My mom was in a suburb of Chicago.

My mom definitely had reservations because of the time.

MTV was a little scandalous at the time.

You know, that was right after the Janet Jackson boob thing happened at the Super Bowl and they didn't have the best rep.

And so she was a little worried, but my dad was all for it.

And because I lived with my dad, I'm pretty sure I only had to have my dad sign off on it.

You're like, Mom, I'm not even doing it, dad.

Why do you think your dad was okay with it?

I think he saw the opportunity, you know.

I mean, he just did.

And well, also, none of us knew what the show was going to turn into.

No, you know, my dad probably at the time was like, oh, cute, a little home movie, no problem, have fun.

Wait, it literally probably was like a school, like school project, dad.

It just happens to be from MTV.

And it's crazy because reality TV really, like, no one had gotten famous from that yet yeah so it was kind of like an undiscovered concept so i can kind of understand why parents would be like sure yeah it wasn't like it is today no one knew you know i mean totally obviously there was the real world at the time um i think the simple life had already happened and maybe the osborne show but other than that there was there was nothing really so yeah we this was unchartered territory we had no idea i'm trying to picture myself in high school getting cast on a show.

I would have failed out.

I I would have dropped out.

No way.

You would have been like, how did you know?

You would have fucking crushed it.

That's the point, though.

I would have been like, I'm obsessed.

I get to go party with boys.

Like, how the fuck is that?

And that was me.

Okay, I was wondering, like, did it fully take over your life?

I mean, yeah.

Well, yes and no.

Yes, in the sense that, yes.

I mean, that was like what everyone in Laguna Beach was talking about.

We filmed every weekend for like nine months or something.

But because we were still in high school, I mean, I was actually going to class still.

And so during the weeks,

you know, my life was normal.

I was going to school, doing whatever I was doing.

And then we would film, I think sometimes Thursdays, but mostly Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

When you came out, did people that were in your school that weren't on the show treat you guys like

different?

What happened was the first season, everybody auditioned, right?

Everyone did.

Well, and then when those people didn't get it, fuck MTV, blah, blah, that whole thing.

And then those people were on season two.

And I was like, oh, really?

Right.

Fuck MTV, huh?

That pissed me off, but I mean, it's understandable.

And then when it aired, the first season aired, I was a senior in high school.

Talon and I were.

Everyone else graduated and went on to school.

That was the one time the freshman coming in looked at me a little differently.

And I was like, okay, this is weird.

You talked about the fact that your relationship with your dad was hard to heal in therapy.

When you were growing up, what was that core issue between the two of you?

Well, my dad wasn't around a lot, to be honest.

We were living in Connecticut before my parents got a divorce, and my dad had moved to Colorado.

I think I saw him maybe like once a month, like for a while.

And then in Colorado is when my parents got a divorce, and my dad shortly thereafter moved to Laguna Beach.

And I was still in Colorado.

Then my mom got remarried and I moved to Chicago.

And then my freshman year of high school is when I moved to Laguna, moved in with my dad, my stepmom, who was 20 years younger than my dad, and my brother at at the time, who had also been broken up with.

He moved to Laguna when I moved to Chicago.

And honestly, my dad and I were just never close.

And I just remember in high school, I never wanted to be home.

Like, I just never wanted to be around that environment.

So that's why I think I fell into like friendships a lot and going out.

I was kind of the party girl.

And I was just, you know, that's where I found connections.

Did you want to move to Laguna?

I sort of had to because I was getting in so much trouble in Chicago and I had a major issue with my stepbrother and like all of the pieces just fell into place for me to move.

My mom wanted to ship me off to boarding school and my dad said, let me give it a go.

Let me see if I can control this wild beast.

So I moved to Laguna my freshman year of high school.

And honestly, the best thing that's ever happened to me.

What were you confident about in high school?

And what were you insecure about?

Well, it's funny because on Laguna Beach, everyone thought I was a super confident kid.

And now that I've had to go back and watch the episodes for my podcast, I don't see a confident girl at all.

I see actually someone who's incredibly insecure.

You know, they that saying, confidence is quiet, insecurity is loud.

Well, I was that, you know, I was overcompensating for my insane amount of insecurity.

And so I think most kids are a mess.

You know, most high school kids, you don't know who the fuck you are at 17 years old.

But I think really probably because I didn't have

a family member in my life that I was really close to.

My mom now is my best friend, but at the time we were not close.

I wasn't living with her.

You know, I never wanted to be home.

So I think that was probably a large part of it for me.

That is really interesting because I think like watching it back, sometimes when you're in your head about whatever your insecurity is for you, you're like, I kind of feel like I'm.

alone out here doing my fucking thing.

You kind of just have to fake it till you make it.

Exactly.

Was there anything when you were social with your peers that you were insecure about?

No, I mean, that's really where I kind of found my identity, I think.

And so I moved around a lot growing up.

And I think because I was always the new girl, I was a survivor.

Like, you could throw me in any situation and I was going to figure it out.

I knew how to navigate through situations.

That's maybe where like the confidence came from because I wasn't someone who's going to like, you know, crawl in the corner and suffer.

I was like, boom, here I am.

Let's go.

But I was faking it though.

That makes so much sense.

I can completely relate to that where you're like, I'm about to walk in this room and I have two options.

And so sometimes being like the loud one, it just gets you in the door.

And it immediately, if you exude confidence, eventually you're going to fucking beat them.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

If you had to guess,

who would you be now if the MTV cameras never showed up to your high school?

Oh my God.

I love that question.

I mean, I think,

wow.

If I was never on Laguna Beach, I probably would have gone to school and, you know, did broadcast, studied broadcast journalism.

Hopefully would have worked my way in still.

I don't know.

I feel like in a lot of ways, I probably wouldn't be as far along on my journey as I am today because ultimately being on TV at such a young age and going through everything I've gone through over the years has really forced me to grow up a lot.

I think the older we get, we realize life is building blocks and everything starts to make sense.

And so I feel like just everything that I've been through, like I feel like this was supposed to be my journey.

So I can't, it's hard to sit here and be like, well, if not, because I just feel like I was destined for this.

I think a lot of people are fascinated because, like you said, high school is hard enough.

Like high school is such an awkward time.

You're trying to figure out who the fuck you are.

You're dealing with peer dynamics, family dynamics.

How did it feel?

And I think this is where we all are so fascinated with it because.

It's really not natural to have grown-ups with cameras in your face.

Like I feel like your scenes were always like you chilling in bed with Alex in the morning, like discussing what happened the night before.

But it's like, how did it feel having these grown-ups come into your life, stir up drama and kind of like manipulate these storylines to get a good show going when you're in high school?

Yeah, it's a weird dynamic when you really explain it like that.

I mean, my whole life, I had trust issues, but then really when you're 17, 18, and you have adults taking advantage of you and manipulating situations and

in a lot of ways, just straight up lying to your face.

I mean,

that's, that'll rock your boat for sure.

Trust is like my biggest issue with people.

And so that obviously didn't help that situation.

And now that I'm older and I've.

I've been on the other side of reality shows, like very cavalier.

I was an executive producer, which was the best thing for me to end my reality TV career with that experience because it left a really good taste in my mouth.

But it was also really eye-opening to be involved in those conversations of like, oh, these are the storylines we're getting.

And no matter what you do, they're going to get the storyline they want.

So I understand from a producer's perspective now that I'm an adult, why they do the things they do.

They have a job to do.

I get all of that.

I just think it's a tricky thing when you're dealing with children.

I mean, we were kids, you know, that's where it's like,

it's tough.

It's really tough because in one part, it became one of the biggest shows.

And then on the other end, it's like, yo, you're in high school.

That's your life.

When When you say they would lie to your face, can you give us an example of something you remember?

Well,

so I look at Laguna Beach and the Hills as two very different experiences.

Laguna Beach was more just, no one really ever told us what was going on or like what they were trying to do, you know?

No one prepared us for what was coming.

I just remember one producer in particular before it aired saying, well, you know, you can definitely tell that you're not from Laguna Beach.

And I was like, oh, okay.

Like, what does that mean?

And then it came out and I was like, oh, you mean because everyone's going to fucking hate me?

And this is so not who I am.

You know, but like, I don't know, a bigger heads up would have been nice how much you guys fucked with me.

That kind of stuff.

When you say fucked with you, are you saying like they really leaned in to try to make you that villain?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And that's why I've really loved doing the Back to the Beach podcast with Steven because we literally go through scene by scene and break it down.

And it's been therapeutic for me.

It's been eye-opening.

It's been really fun also just to to break it all down because I'm not emotionally invested in it anymore.

Where at the time, I remember Steven being like, that's not how it went down, but I couldn't hear him or believe him because I was so upset about it.

And so, yeah, being able to go back and watch it and just get to the bottom of it, I've loved every second of it.

When you realized, like, wait, I look like the villain in this.

What the fuck did that do to you mentally?

I was, I was pretty wrecked for a while.

I was so upset.

I was really upset when I saw the first episode.

It was hard.

It was you and Lauren Conrad.

Essentially, the first premise was like you guys fighting over a guy.

Yeah.

Did you and Lauren, was it really only over Steven or were you two just

two personalities that probably would have always butt heads regardless of if a guy was involved?

Well, we were never friends, but we never fought or anything, you know?

And so MTV coming definitely made it.

a way bigger thing than it ever was.

And Lauren and Steven did have something, but it was before MTV came.

And then, of course, MTV caught wind of that.

That was like the only thing they focused on.

And in a lot of ways, try to keep it alive.

And that was where I felt really threatened.

And so I put up walls.

That was all I knew how to do at age 17.

Totally.

And so, yeah, it goes back to that thing where I was always a survivor.

And so if I felt like, you know, threatened and people were like coming after something that was mine, aka my boyfriend, or whatever it was, I was going to get scrappy.

I mean, that's just what I knew how to do.

I have had many of your now castmates on.

I've heard.

And being on Laguna Beach and the hills and getting to like directly interact with Adam DeVello, what was your experience with him?

I mean, it was,

it was never great.

I had my issues with Adam without a doubt.

And again, I mean, I kind of said it earlier, but I understand now as an adult why he did the things he did.

It's not that I agree with them, but I mean, he had a job to do.

I think my biggest issue with what Adam did was he would create these storylines on the show that were bullshit, but then he would go and feed them to the tabloids.

So not only are you living this shit on the show, but then I'm having to answer questions in the tabloids, and people are painting this picture of me, which isn't true at all.

And again, I get it because the tabloids fueled the show.

And, you know, at the end of the day,

it's all fine.

It's all worked out.

But um i

i had my issues with adam for sure i don't think he's a good person but i think he's a great producer i'm actually kind of upset though because steven and i were supposed to have him on our podcast and he you know had us going around and around and around and then two days before we were supposed to film he pulled out and it's just shitty because a you could have told us up front and b he totally opened up my career right started my career but we also started his career like without the cast of season one of laguna Beach, Adam wouldn't be what he is either.

So I just felt like, why can't you come on?

It's a mutual respect thing.

Answer some questions about how the show was created and we'll call it a day.

You kind of made him.

Because yeah, he had like the format, but if you guys didn't show the fuck up and do your iconic scenes, like there was not going to be a huge media mogul moment for MTV in that category.

So it's like

Spencer did talk about what happened with Heidi.

Did you know about that?

And do you know?

No, because that was before I had come on the show.

My issue with him was a bribing situation and him

creating the storyline that I was doing drugs and was out of control.

I partied my ass off in my early 20s.

I had a really good time.

I don't regret anything.

I was never out of control.

It was never cause for concern.

I was never not showering, which is like what Us Weekly had said, that I needed to go to rehab and all this shit.

And so

that wasn't cool.

I remember that.

Yeah.

He bribed the girls to call me out on camera for doing drugs with a purse.

So, but

and that was difficult.

And Adam and I got in a huge fight about it.

And because what I was doing then,

because then he fueled it to us weekly, I would be on camera filming and I'd be like, I know it was Adam like going around just running my mouth.

And Adam called me and he was like, you have to stop saying that.

I was like, but you did.

Well, that's also fucked.

And I think that's where I think it's fair for you guys.

You're not discrediting the show.

Even you sit here and you're saying, great producer.

He knows what the fuck he's doing.

But I do think it's fair to clear your name because I was going to ask you that about like, there was that huge sin I remember with the Hills where it was like, she's on drugs.

She's spun out.

And they like got you when you like just woke up and they were, the girls were like trying to have an intervention.

And I was like.

Is Kristen really on drugs?

Intervention.

And that fucks with you because your kids are going to watch that one day.

Like, and so I think it's fair for you to be able to at least clear your fucking name with.

I party.

Like, I'm not going to sit here and say I never did.

I had a lot of fun.

Yeah.

I'm glad that I did.

I got everything out of my system, but it was never, I never needed rehab.

No one in my life was concerned about me.

Like it, it was totally under control.

I love that.

If there's, if you can be a partier that's under control.

But yeah.

And I, yeah.

So, and I just hope that Lo learned you always have to get that shit in writing, you know?

Because she never got her purse.

She didn't?

No.

Stop.

What kind of purse was it?

I don't even remember.

I want to say it was a Birken.

It wasn't.

Shut the fuck out of it.

Yeah, it was a Birkin.

Yeah, but you got to get get that shit in writing.

Absolutely.

I would have been like, give it to me first and then I'll show up.

Exactly.

Damn, no Birkin for love.

Sorry, girl.

And no rehab for Kristen.

Hope it was worth it.

When you look back, young Kristen is like in that moment, cameras around.

What were the perks of having this show in your life?

And then what was like the most negative part that you look back on now with perspective?

I mean, the perks were, it was fun.

I would get phone calls being in, you know, whatever class during senior year.

And MTV would be like, hey, can you fly to New York tonight to be on TRL tomorrow?

I'm like, Yes, absolutely.

Like, that stuff is fun, you know?

I mean, so there was a lot of cool things going to the MTV VMAs and all that stuff was really fun.

I mean, I was still in high school, so it's not like I was getting great dinner reservations and stuff yet, you know.

But when I graduated high school and we moved up to LA, yeah, like I never waited in a line at a club or a restaurant.

Like, that was, it was fun.

It was very, very fun.

And then the biggest downfall I'd say, and

well, I guess, okay, more so back in the day was the tabloid world, that aspect of it.

Now I'm not so much in the tabloids like I was back in the day, but what I don't like now is every time I feel like I do an interview, like what they take, they'll take nothing and turn it into headlines for clickbait.

And that shit really pisses me off still.

Like I just did another podcast and we were talking about dating and.

I guess we were talking about Instagram.

And I said that I only noticed the verified ones because they go to the top.

I'm not like, and we were like joking around so now all these fucking articles are like Kristen's using Instagram as a dating app and it's like no I'm not that's not what I was saying right no I do I totally get that like the spinning of the words and it almost makes you like not want to do shit makes me not want to talk

which I think you do love to talk though I know but I feel like in the last few years I don't talk as much because I I'm not people probably don't know this about me they probably think I love all the attention.

I actually don't unless it's for something positive like my company like I'm coming James James or something, then I'm like, all right, that's great.

But I really, I don't care about being in the press or the tabloids.

I really don't.

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Is MTV paying for everyone's therapy?

They should be, but no.

They didn't offer.

No.

And actually, Steven told me on our podcast that they gave him a speech coach.

And I'm like, really?

Because I probably needed one out of everybody.

And they didn't offer me that.

They offered him back when he was in Louisiana?

Yeah.

Did he need a speech coach?

I didn't think so.

I did.

I'm like, that would have gone against the character they wanted me to be.

Right.

Like rough around the edge, like Wild Kristen.

How do you think having your first relationship, like serious first love and relationship air on TV impacted your future relationships?

Oh,

um.

I don't think my relationship being on camera affected my future relationships.

I think just being in the press then affected my future relationships.

And again, it goes back to that whole trust thing.

Unfortunately, I've had to be careful with guys that I date because a lot of guys, or what I have found, is a few different things.

They get a little taste of fame and they lose their mind.

They become addicted to it almost.

Or it's really threatening for a lot of guys.

So then they want, they get really jealous and insecure about it.

So that's been really tricky for me.

Wait, when you say they get addicted, like, how can you immediately tell?

Like, oh, fuck, he's turned.

It takes me a second.

You can just tell, like, what I can't fucking stand is when a guy will plant

breadcrumbs.

You know that saying

on Instagram.

Like, I dated a guy.

I don't know.

Or I dated a guy who would come to Nashville and he would like tag the location.

And I'm like, why?

You've never tagged a location in your life.

Why?

Now that shit I can't stand.

Because it's so purposeful.

Like he's looking to kind of be like, I hope this gets picked up by someone and I hope there's an article.

Like, are they seeing each other?

Like, you're disgusting to me.

You're like, I don't even know you that well.

We're trying to get to know each other.

Like, before we actually start dating, like, chill the fuck out.

Or what I've noticed, if it's not about the guy, the attention, they do not like that.

So then they're like, oh, you know, like,

I'm like, it's because it's not about you.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

So

you married someone that was famous and was in the public eye.

How did you meet Jay Cutler?

So I,

well, I got a call from my publicist in 2009 when I was still filming the hills.

And he said, Jay Cutler wants to fly you to Chicago and take you on a date.

And I had no idea who he was.

And I just wasn't interested, quite honestly.

So I said no.

I obviously told my mom about it though, because a year later, I was visiting my mom who lives in a suburb of Chicago.

And we were going to a Bears preseason game with my cousin for actually my friend Matt Leinart, who was playing on the opposing team.

And my mom said, you know, didn't Jay Cutler ask you out?

And I was like, oh, yeah, I totally forgot about that.

My cousin, who is like the biggest Bears fan, told me what an idiot I am.

So, long story short, I got his family passes to meet him after the game, thinking I would never talk to Jay ever again.

And, you know, but my cousin would be like over the moon about it.

And he walked in and he was a lot cuter in person.

And we hung out two nights later.

And then honestly, we just moved so fast.

I mean, we got engaged after eight months and it just moved.

What initially attracted you to him?

So at the time, I remember my life felt very claustrophobic living in LA.

I couldn't leave my house without a million paparazzi every day and I just was over it.

Every guy in LA I felt like was a little bitch, to be completely honest.

And I wanted someone who could like be the alpha because I felt like everything in my life, I was always the alpha.

So I wanted to be in the passenger seat for once.

Jay checked all of those boxes.

And

honestly, we just had chemistry.

Like you can't pick and choose who you like.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

And so we just had that spark.

Totally.

And, and yeah.

So with where I was at at the time in my life, it was, he was perfect for me.

I wanted to discuss dating an athlete and marrying an athlete because I've dated.

I was going to say a few.

I've dated a lot of athletes.

Okay.

Everyone knows I've dated a lot of athletes, had serious relationships, flings, whatever.

And they're an interesting breed.

Yeah.

Was Jay your first professional athlete that you dated?

No.

I have a few under my belt as well.

You kind of already knew kind of the game.

You know, it helps when you have them under your belt because you kind of know

that world.

So well.

So well.

You have like the whole playbook ready to go.

Like musicians, fucking insane.

I won't go near another one.

But athletes, I could do that world.

Oh, they're all the fucking athletes.

I can do that shit in my sleep.

Absolutely.

What were some of the perks of dating a pro athlete in your mind?

Well, in Chicago, I mean, he was a huge deal, you know?

And so it was like instead of me always having to get a dinner reservation, like Jay could fucking do it.

Like dumb shit like that, though, but it mattered at the time.

Life was just, it was easy and fun with him.

Totally.

You know, did you fit in with the other players' wives?

Yeah, I did.

You did?

I did.

See, I didn't as well because they would want me to go to a luncheon or like a lot of that shit, which I wasn't a fan of.

I couldn't do.

No, but like, yeah, we all got along.

You got along.

Yeah.

But maybe you weren't like at all the luncheons with like the,

no, I don't think I went to a bears luncheon until like my last season there with them.

I was like, all right.

They would always ask me and I'd be like, ladies, I got to go to work.

And they'd be like, but we have a luncheon at noon on Wednesday.

Sorry.

Sorry.

No, but they are sweet.

They are.

They are.

What I found was that most of them had been together since they were like 18.

So many of them.

And I guess I get it.

And I think that's where maybe it was cool because you had a different dynamic where like a lot of them try to stay with the people that knew them before they got big.

Right.

And you and Jay had a different dynamic because you both were big in your own right.

So there could kind of be this just mutual, like, we both have our own things going on.

That makes sense.

What were some of the hardest hardest aspects of being married to someone whose job is to play football?

Well, I mean, I love someone who has their own shit going on.

So that was great.

But I think the hardest part was watching him get the shit beat out of them week after week.

You know, football is a really tough sport.

And so that was difficult, especially after we had kids too.

You know, then things just become even more serious.

But

other than that, loved the schedule, loved him traveling, loved him going like, I, please go do you, you know?

Yeah, I also feel like football football is like one of the better schedules.

It's not bad at all.

Baseball, it's like I'll see you never.

Bye.

Also, that's why they have girlfriends in every city.

Every single city.

They would always call it like road beef.

And I was like, Excuse me, why are you saying this in front of me?

And my boyfriend's friends would all be like, are road beef in like Minnesota?

I dated a baseball player who actually sent flowers to me and one of my friends on Valentine's Day.

I mean, this is so long ago, but yeah, I was like, oh.

Like, we have no shame.

No shame.

No shame.

They're like, what?

what no literally and totally told me he had a girlfriend up in san francisco like i mean oh yeah i was like oh okay well hey there's something about the honesty

wait they're like but like she's my girlfriend in that city you're like you're here why

why no

Did you ever worry about Jay's behavior on the road when he was gone?

I didn't.

And that's why football is actually a good sport because they're gone for one night.

They have curfew the night before.

It's the night before a game.

As soon as the game's over, they get right on a plane and come home.

There's no room.

There's no, I mean, listen.

They do and they have and they will continue to.

But at the time, I didn't have any reason to suspect.

How did the dynamic of your marriage change once Jay retired?

I mean, it actually kind of didn't.

And we started very cavalier right away.

And so

it kind of, it didn't.

He was just around a lot more.

Okay, so you guys were getting to spend more time.

A lot more time, yeah.

Initially, when you got engaged, you postponed the wedding.

You said one of the reasons was you didn't want to be a stay-at-home wife.

What made you think that you would have to be staying at home if you got married?

I mean, it was so much bigger than that, though.

I think I probably said that at the time to like say something and move on.

But

basically,

I ended the, or I called off the engagement the same reason I got a divorce.

Same reasons, I should say.

And so I guess.

If there's any takeaway from that is you can't ignore red flags.

People don't change.

And you got to trust your gut.

I was 23 when I met Jay.

You know, I was a baby.

And at the time in my life, getting married and having kids was the next natural step.

I'd gotten everything out of my system and I don't regret anything at all.

And I really am thankful for our time together.

But

yeah, I just think, you know, now I'm so different dating.

I see shit a mile away.

And now it's like, nope, I'm actually not going to put up with that.

Cause you know what it is now for me.

It's a huge turn off.

Instead of being like, oh, well, you you know, maybe he'll change.

Maybe we could fix him.

It's like, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Goodbye.

I don't have time for that anymore.

You say it wasn't because of loss of love that you guys got divorced, but because you couldn't be in a toxic relationship anymore.

What was toxic about it?

So here's my only thing.

Because I have three kids with him.

I'm very careful about what I say.

If you and I didn't have microphones in front of us, I'd fucking tell you.

But, you know, that's their dad.

And my oldest Googles us now.

and i just want to be very careful my mom never said anything bad about my dad growing up and i really respected that and i want to be that kind of mom and even if i don't say anything the headlines will say i trashed him somehow so i just

you know it was toxic i think period end of story that's all i kind of need to say when did your family and friends realize forever they did

because i know sometimes you can like try to hide it because actually yeah okay i i kind of hit it from some of my friends My mom knew every step of the way and my best friend Stephanie who's in Chicago But like Justin my best friend He didn't realize it until he moved to Nashville and then he saw it firsthand when you get to a place where you are trying to hide stuff from your friends or your family That's also a red flag for yourself of like

why aren't you telling your friends?

It's so true and then it's like to get out and then it's almost harder once that you're so deep in it by yourself that Then to try to be a lone ranger just on your own island.

And then you're like, how do I even tell my friends because I've been faking this for so long.

But you're saying your family knew.

So you weren't fully alone.

Yeah, my mom knew.

My mom knew.

And, you know, because my mom went through some similar stuff with my dad, she was actually the perfect person for me to have.

She understood what I was going through.

And so that was good.

I also think it's really important if you do have issues with your dad, for girls, you know, obviously for girls especially to work through that shit before you get married because otherwise we end up with our dad.

When you think you have any fucking issues with just even like your family, your parents, that shit, if you don't work on that, you're about to turn right around and do the same fucking shit.

And so it can be a little bit of like a daunting process, but you have to work through it or you're going to marry your father.

Exactly.

When you are breaking up with someone,

it fucking sucks.

Even if you.

No matter what side you're on.

No matter what side.

And what is worse, especially with social media, is like, it's hard to see someone move on.

Yeah.

How did it make you feel or does it make you feel like if you still see or when if he's like out with other people like i hope that he finds someone yeah i really do i mean i want him happy my kids benefit from that you know so i hope that he gets remarried and i i mean i really do obviously the first time i heard about it it stung a little yeah yeah yeah that's anybody you know but totally and i'm friends with almost all of my exes and i

I

I think that that's a good thing.

Like, I really value the time I've had with everybody.

I've learned from every relationship I've had and I really want all of my exes to be happy and be in a great relationship.

For young women listening, it's fucking hard to end something that, especially I'm sure, when you have children, like you have deep ties with someone, there is love there because what you've created, the world you've created with this person, but when you know something's not right for you,

how did you like mentally work through ending it officially?

Because that's hard.

It's really scary.

I mean, it took me a few years to actually pull the trigger, to be honest.

For you, was it just time, or were you finally like, okay, something happened?

Like, now I'm going to do it?

No, it was more just time.

It was like nothing major happened at the end, you know, it was just time.

And I remember always asking my mom, like, well, how am I going to know?

And she would be like, you'll just know.

And I did.

I just kind of knew.

And, you know, it's the scariest thing.

It's also the saddest thing.

I mean, it's so many emotions, but it can also be the best thing, you know?

And so I really don't think anything good comes easy, really, like with anything in life.

And so, but also, you don't want to like just make an impulsive decision either.

And I think that's why it's important to write it out.

I've also seen couples that have worked through shit and come out on the other side, you know?

So, I mean, you, I think with any relationship, you just have to realize what are deal breakers for you, what's important to you, and what's not.

And I was really unhappy.

I mean, and that was the bottom line.

And I was in an unhealthy relationship.

And so that to me is not worth it.

Also, I didn't want my kids thinking that that was normal.

And,

you know, I wanted them to see me happy and see me eventually, not right now, but eventually see me with someone who really respects me and treats me the way I need to be treated.

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Okay.

You are now recording.

a Laguna Beach rewatch podcast with your ex-boyfriend in high school.

I don't know if I could ever fucking sit down with my ex-boyfriend and be like, let's, and also the fact that you have to re-watch it.

It's like, holy fuck.

Do you see yourself ever hooking up with Steven again?

No, I went to dinner with him almost two years ago and we kissed, which was fun.

I mean, we had had a couple drinks and yeah, we were, yeah, it was just fun, you know?

Right.

And then I was actually dating someone at the time, you know, I'm just making up for lost time.

And so I think that was kind of what the issue was, was that I was dating someone else.

And

it just kind of just didn't turn into anything.

Do you feel like you guys are like, because you know how everyone's like your first love?

Like, do you think there's any

way you would explore it again?

No, I really, once I'm done with someone, I'm done.

It's like a light switch that flips and I can't go back.

Are you guys having that moment?

I actually feel like this is something I would think about in high school.

It's like, are you guys having any of those moments where together you kind of regress back to the high school version of yourself together?

Because do you even even know adult versions of each other?

Well, we've kept in touch and we would hang out a little bit before I got married and stuff.

But, um, and I think had we not gone to dinner almost two years ago, I don't know that the podcast would, I don't know that we would have, well, I'm sure we would have had the same chemistry, but it put me at ease because I was like, I know that we still can, you know, banter back and forth, have fun together.

So that was a good thing.

You need to take us through the last date you went on.

Okay.

Where did you go?

Did you like the person?

Kristen, give us the tea.

This is a good story, actually.

Actually, okay.

Tell us.

Here we go.

So I hate actors, you know.

I've always known that.

Like in my early 20s, I went out with a few and I was like, they're the worst.

But an actor asked me out.

I was like, all right.

So this was in LA.

This was probably like two months ago.

And

I went to Laurel Hardware.

God, I hope he doesn't hear this.

It's fine.

I've gone on dates there too.

Let's just pretend it was me there, but you there.

Who was it?

We don't know.

Keep going.

Laurel Hardware.

That's a good place for drinks.

So he was slamming drinks, like slamming drinks.

And then at one point, he was telling me he does his own stunts.

We were sitting at the bar, okay?

It's fucking packed.

He gets up to reenact a stunt that he had done, accidentally runs into the waiter, and is like, oh, I'm so sorry.

I was like, please sit the fuck down.

I can't.

Just creating all this commotion in the middle of Laurel Hardware.

I am so turned off.

He tried to do a stunt.

Reenacting a stunt in the middle of a packed restaurant.

I was like, please sit down.

Also, like, just drawing so much attention.

I'm like, oh my gosh.

Also, why are you doing a stunt in Laurel Hardware?

Sit the fuck down.

And to confirm, anyone that's not from LA, that is a packed bar.

It is not a hardware store.

Thank you very much.

It was awesome.

So then did you talk to him afterwards?

He's texted me a couple times.

And I can't be, I can't just like go someone.

Right.

But I give him like a one-word response.

I don't even know that we're in a serious relationship.

Literally.

Okay, so you're just kind of like, I get that.

Wait, why do you think you can't ghost someone?

I'm too fucking nice, which people would not know about me.

I'm too nice.

Really?

Yeah.

I wouldn't want to be ghosted either.

I would actually appreciate someone just being like, hey, you know what?

You're great, but like didn't feel any chemistry.

Totally.

Which I said that to another guy.

I was like, hey, I didn't feel any chemistry.

And his friends were making fun of me for weeks about it.

I'm like, I actually thought I was being like mature, not wasting anyone's time.

I love that.

What can they say to that?

Exactly.

And he deleted my number and told all of his friends, and everyone was making fun of me.

I'm like, okay, well, that's thank you for validating why the fuck I don't like you.

And like I'm an adult and like, sorry, you couldn't take the fucking truth.

I'm trying not to waste anyone's time.

Like totally fun.

If you are not having a good time on a date, because I feel like this is me and I'm wondering if it would be you.

They won't know that I'm not having a good time.

I know.

I'm going to like people please it up and be like, yeah, laughing.

And then he's going to think we're leaving.

I'm having the best time.

And I'm not going to want to talk to him.

Can are you, do you give signs on a date if you're not into it?

I know, because that's the same thing.

Like, I'll fucking fucking show up to the party, you know?

But what I've been doing is I won't go on dinner dates.

I will get a drink.

Smart.

They usually turn into dinner because, again, I'm too fucking nice.

But

like, like, I can't do that.

This guy who was acting out stunts got dinner with them.

Like, what am I doing?

Let's get the ravioli.

Dude, like, I gotta go home.

Fuck.

Yeah.

So, because I know, because I need to come up with a better game plan.

I'm like, oh, well, I have an early morning, you know.

Right.

Actually, this is another funny story.

I almost want to say who it was with in my early 20s okay you have to uncall her daddy come on all right I'll say it don't say it it's in your early

moments this is going don't say it all right I'll tell you the story so I went on a date with a guy this is my early 20s height of my partying career right okay he was vegan and he was sober and I was like oh

one or the other, right?

Pick one.

Preferably both, but or like be both.

So I was like, I have an early morning.

Well, sorry.

Went back to his house, made out with him on his bed.

I was like I have a really early morning tomorrow got you know changed in my car went to hide I'm such a dumbass of course there's paparazzi the next day he was like my friend saw you at hide I was like oh really

you're like it's so crazy I was on my way home and I got an email that the event in the morning was canceled so I thought you were asleep I'm gonna go to hide I felt so dumb I felt so bad and he's really cute but like at the time in my life totally I'm eating meat and I'm drinking a lot of alcohol oh you can't do this No, I actually respect the honesty, though, because I have done something similar where, like, if they're just not on your wavelength, especially when you're in your early 20s and you're like, I am going to every club.

I want to be known at that club.

My job is to go out right now.

I don't know if you understand that.

And so it's like, even if they're a great guy, maybe if you met him later on, by the way, like,

well, I've seen him not that long ago, but like great guy, you know?

It's just not meant for you.

You're more interested in getting fucked up at hide.

If I were to go

Okay.

Can you tell us who is the most famous person you've denied?

Denied?

Oh, God.

What about initials?

Your publicist is having a panic attack.

What about tell us the profession?

I didn't deny a lot of people back in the day, to be honest.

You're like, did you just hear about my mom?

I'm staying on the date with the guy doing the stunt.

Alex, everybody has to do it.

I'm getting dinner with him.

All right.

Fine.

No one's getting denied.

Okay, how about this?

You see someone on Instagram you find attractive.

Okay.

How do you vet these people to see if they're worthy of you DMing them and pursuing them?

I won't DM.

You don't?

No, I won't make the first move on Instagram.

Why?

Okay, so where I'm at currently in my life, I want to be pursued.

I want to be fucking courted.

I want the man to put in some fucking effort.

And I think because guys now, so again, I was married.

I was with Jay for 10 years.

This is my first time dating in the social media world.

Like, it's a fucking shit show out there.

I hate every second of it.

But guys are lazy as fuck now.

And they're always looking for the next best thing.

And so it's like, no, I'm sorry.

I don't have time for your little bullshit anymore.

Like, let me see how serious you are and put in the effort.

So no, I'm not making the first move.

I've said, ladies, if you want something, slide the fuck in, but where you're at in your life also kind of dictates what you're going to do.

So for you, I totally hear you we're like i'm not i'm gonna sit on my couch drink my tea and wait for the men to come in and if they're not

signara like i don't give a yeah okay i think that's a good one thing i did do was um i went to a show and i posted a story of this musician who i did end up dating so he saw it saw it dm'd me so like that in a roundabout way is kind of like the making of pretty natural yeah i like that that's a good way to do it yeah

if you were going, though, to slide into someone's game, let's pretend like something hits you on a Sunday night, the kids are gone, you're bored, you're like, Maybe I'll give it a try.

What is

it's gotta be hot.

Okay,

what are you gonna slide in with if you had to?

If you like, what's my pickup line?

What would you say?

Hey, hi, Chris is like, I'm so lazy with it.

Hi, period.

Okay, this is a fun game.

Oh, God, what would I say?

It really really depends on the guy, the situation, where he lives.

Like, if he lives in Nashville, like, it would be different than if he lived in LA, right?

So it would be, I don't know.

Like,

shit, I don't, I don't know.

Because, like, Nashville, you could be like something about like, like, do you go to like something like something dumb?

Like, like, location.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or, like, hey, like, like, are you in Nashville?

Like, something like that.

If they're in a different state.

Yeah, then it's like LA.

I come out here quite a bit.

So I'm like, I'm going to be in LA and blah, blah, blah.

Blah, blah, blah.

Like, what are you up to?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you have a good game.

Like, we know.

I know.

We know.

Thank you.

We watched it.

We still got it.

You know,

I do know that.

I think that's the best part.

I remember watching On the Hills when you came back and you with Brody.

He was like drooling because it was just like, you know how to get the guy.

Sweet Brody.

Do you think that would ever go anywhere?

I've ever gotten it.

No, I just saw him actually and I met his new girlfriend.

I love Brody.

But no.

Brody's the only ex I ever went back to though.

And it was because I was filming the Hills.

Interesting.

Although on the show,

we didn't actually date, but we hung out a little bit.

I can't remember how it all, but what you saw on the show was all bullshit.

Like he and Jade pretended to break up, but they never actually did.

Like all that.

Dude, those fight scenes.

I was like, Kristen, how do you get yourself riled up to just screaming these?

Is it easy for you to get riled up, though, when you're filming now?

Not anymore, but like back in the day.

Oh, yeah.

When you showed up, I forget the scene, but you showed up.

Oh, my God.

I remember your hair looked great.

You were looking great.

You showed showed up and you're like, you want to fight?

Oh, my God.

You came in

piranhas.

God, I know.

I was hammered.

I watched that back and I was like, oh, Heidi and Spencer was my first day really filming.

Heidi and Spencer came with bottles of tequila and it just went south.

And when they showed up.

You know what I was mad about though?

So before I started filming, Audrey and I talked about how we know that they want us to fight and, you know, they want you to go after Justin Bobby.

We're not going to fall for that shit.

I was like, yeah, no, we're not.

Woo.

Then we're filming and she comes up to me and picks a fight.

And I was like, what?

I was like, that's why I was like, so it's gonna be like that?

Because I was like, what the fuck?

We just had this conversation.

That makes so much sense.

Oh my God, I forgot that.

So it's gonna be like that, really?

You and whatever.

That was like fucking piranhas.

Am I crazy?

Fuck all of you.

It's like game on.

That actually makes a lot of sense how you got that riled up in that scene.

Guys, just Google Kristen Cavallari.

You came at me like fucking piranhas and you will watch the glorious moment that Kristen almost loses her shit.

But it truly was such an iconic moment.

And also, that's so good to know you were hammered because that line was so iconic.

I'm better when I have a little buzz.

Like, that shit just comes out of my mouth.

See, sometimes people look like idiots.

Kristen's like, give me a fucking tequila and I will rock.

I perform way better.

I love that.

Okay, when you're looking at someone's Instagram, now that you're learning how to date with social media, what is a photo?

That laugh, guys, I can't.

I feel like I've heard that since I came out of the fucking womb.

I'm obsessed.

It's the giggle.

It's the cute one also where the guys are endeared.

And then it's also like sinister for women being like, oh my God, is she going to cut my face off or do I love her?

Okay, wait.

If you're going to a guy's Instagram, he DMs you.

You're like, okay, what could be a photo that you see that you're like, absolutely not?

Like a shirtless selfie.

The model photo.

It's like, yeah, like, sorry.

A gym selfie.

Yeah, no.

We don't need to see it.

No, be a man, a manly man who's not taking fucking shirtless photos in the mirror.

I agree.

We don't need to see it.

Cool, bro.

Anyone cares?

I agree with you.

Mine were the fishing photos when they're like holding the big fish in the photo.

And I'm like, sir, what?

That's your thing.

I just can't.

I just, I can't take it.

I'm from the Northeast.

I just.

To be honest, I would actually love to find someone who's not on social media.

Or maybe they have one, but like they really don't post.

It's like that kind of stuff.

That's the goal.

When I met my boyfriend and I was like, what?

Show me your Instagram.

And he was like, I don't have one.

I was like,

I was like, I will marry you.

You officially have a second date, buddy.

It was

so nice.

You're going to find it.

Yeah.

You're going to find it.

I think so, too.

Does someone's prior dating history in the industry affect if you're going to pursue them?

I would be lying if I said not at all, but if you've dated some fucking trash buckets, yeah, it kind of stands out.

Give us the definition of a trash bucket.

Just like a trashy girl.

Got it.

Yeah.

Like that, huh?

Because then I'm like, why would you be into me?

I'm not saying I'm a fucking saint, but you know what I mean?

Like, I'm not saying I'm not trashy, too, but I have like my own category of

no, no, but I get what you're saying.

If, like, you can tell the vibe of someone, if they're dating someone completely different, like, you're like, I have my business, I have my kids, like, I don't got time to bullshit.

Exactly.

Like, I'm just at a different phase in my life.

The shit I put up with when I was 21 is totally different totally well now.

What is a non-negotiable for you now in a potential partner?

A non-negotiable is someone who cannot take any accountability and who is insecure.

I mean, honestly, I need someone who is so

comfortable in their own skin because that's been the crux of most of my relationships.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Like, you can't, I've had that before too, where it's like, because then it comes to you just constantly having to build them up.

And you're like, and they're threatened by everything in my life.

And it's like, I can't, I don't have time for that anymore.

I can't babysit you.

Yeah.

Would you date date an athlete again?

It's not at the top of my list.

I'm like, I'm not gonna, I'm not looking for one.

They like me for some reason.

Um, and so

I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not looking for that.

And I would love to get, I mean, I'm fucking 35 now.

Like they're all a little young for me now.

I've been attracting a lot of guys in their 20s, though.

I don't know what that's about.

I don't know what's going on.

I mean, I've just decided though, like 30s at least, okay?

Like in my perfect mind, I'm like 45, a businessman, not on social media, no one knows who the fuck they are, but that's just not what I've been attracting.

So I don't know.

But maybe you're also at a point in your life where, like, since you're newly single and you're getting out there, like, maybe that's also, it's gonna shift, but like, you're giving some great energy that, like, the young bucks are like, kind of like,

you guys know, I have three kids, right?

Okay, cool.

I just want to throw that out there.

It's like turning them on even more.

You're like,

a 26-year-old just asked me out.

I was like, 20 fucking sound.

I'm like, you're hot.

But no, like, I can't.

You're like, are you going to hide tonight?

Like, I've been there, done that, man.

I can't.

Okay, if you could go on a date tomorrow with any person of your choice, okay, who would it be?

Like, like Alexander Skarsgård.

Is that how you say his name?

Who is that?

Oh, we.

Google him.

Someone Google him, please.

Big little lies.

Yeah.

I mean, maybe his character wasn't the best on that show, but you know, he's got another shit, right?

You're like, I don't want to raise that off of that character.

You're like, it's not because of the character.

It's because of him.

Guys, don't worry about it.

You really worked through your shit.

So, okay, that's a good answer.

Okay, as we wrap up, you are everywhere.

I feel like when I was prepping for this interview, I'm like, I can't keep up with Kristen Cavalieri enough.

Do you feel exhausted by the fact that your income and your job is slightly dependent at times on you being in the public eye?

Yeah, I do because honestly, if everything went away, I would be okay.

But now that I'm a single woman, especially supporting three children, I have to keep my money coming in, right?

And so, yeah, it's kind of a, but

in the same breath, what I'm doing now, I really love.

Like the podcast, for example, I've really enjoyed.

And I do feel like because I live in Nashville, I can kind of separate a little bit and I go back to a really normal, peaceful life.

And so.

I actually think I have a really good balance with everything right now.

I think that's great.

Yeah.

And being on TV, sometimes I feel like we get a version of you.

Like you said, everyone's, I just learned that you weren't like the most confident girl in high school.

And it's helpful to hear you be able to kind of like debunk those myths about yourself through time.

What is something you feel like people don't understand about you that you wish you could just like set straight and they understood like who Kristen Cavallari is?

Well,

I think there's obviously a lot of sides to my personality.

I do have that like fiery go-getter part that I think a lot of people do see.

I also can be very shy and very reserved.

I'm a homebody.

I recharge by being quiet and having alone time.

And

I,

I just think people would be surprised at what a normal life I live.

Like, people always assume I have chefs and nannies and butlers.

It's like, I don't have any of that shit, you know?

And so

I think, um, I don't know.

I think I'm way more normal than people probably think.

No, I love that you're explaining that because I think also like you could be in LA going to all the places, getting paparazzied all the time.

Like it's, it takes someone to like specifically try to like maneuver the world and not be photographed all the time and there's ways to do it there is yeah

but it's cool that you're like living in nashville you because isn't your house like not yeah i'm actually like 35 minutes outside of the city like out in the country so you're living a pretty normal life when you're there yeah i am and the other thing too is like i'm not seeking press like obviously i just did this video for my company with tyler cameron for uncommon james which i knew would get press but that's different that's for my company i'm not like out there trying to like be in the press and be in the media and like only date someone famous.

And like, I'm not, I don't think like that.

And so, and I think because I am in the press a lot, like, and I actually roll my eyes at that shit.

I'm like, how the fuck are they creating a story out of nothing?

I actually just had to like talk myself off the ledge the other day because I was like, okay, look at it this way.

At least you're being talked about.

People care.

It's like, you know, I have to just kind of like.

turn the narrative around in my head because otherwise I'll drive myself insane.

Do you think it's helped you though that you have now this brand that like now you're not just fully, it's not all about Kristen and who she's dating and your love life and your social life because that's what it originally was.

Now you have something you're like, no, this is my business.

And this is like something that's completely independent of who I'm dating.

Yes.

And that's how I can justify it.

I'm like, well, if people are talking about me, my company benefits.

And so it's all good.

It's all good.

Totally.

Yeah.

Kristen, thank you so much for coming on Caller Today.

Thanks for having me.

It's amazing.

Oh my God.

We're going to have to do it again.

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