Quentin Tarantino Returns Part 1 | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Speaker 1 You're a perfect one to ask. How could it be his fault? It's a gun.

Speaker 1 You are a partner in the responsibility.

Speaker 1 I never put myself up for sale as a dialogue writer. They asked you? Of course they did.
My dialogue is the shit.

Speaker 1 I hear Quentin Tarantino is here, and I...

Speaker 1 It's like I have a fireman's pole in my house. I just come right down.

Speaker 1 Smoking a pipe. Good to see you, my friend.

Speaker 1 Can I get you a smoking jacket?

Speaker 1 Would you like some candy? I mean the Playmate candy. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Candy with a candy.

Speaker 1 No, you mean candy Lieberman.

Speaker 1 That was a joke I used to do. I went up to the Playboy mansion on New Year's Eve.
Can we have candy? She's in the grotto with Jimmy Kahn.

Speaker 1 So I don't first of all thank you for being here i mean you're our first

Speaker 1 repeat customer yes i think we're gonna frame the dollar bill right on the wall the first repeat customer quent and tarantino by popular demand that's you know i you know the the the uh the gal that uh uh put some powder on me told me that uh well not the gal but one of one of your people

Speaker 1 said that she uh uh

Speaker 1 uh does you know handles the uh the the website and everything and she said that there's been a thing about

Speaker 1 who would you like to see a repeat guest?

Speaker 1 And I didn't know this. Apparently it was like, I want hands down.
Hands down.

Speaker 1 Quoting part two. So you're smoking out of a pipe now.

Speaker 1 That's quite a pipe, too. Yeah, this is a calabash.
This is the, this is not the famous pipe that Hans Landa smoked in.

Speaker 1 And Glorious Bastards. That's kind of just a cinematic artifact.
But

Speaker 1 it's actually just, it's interesting. I get into a little bit of smoking smoking a pipe for a little while, and then I get off of it for a little bit, and then I got onto it for a little bit.

Speaker 1 But it was funny because I was doing it while I was here, and I was thinking I was smoking it too much.

Speaker 1 I go, God, I don't want to have to, like, I don't want to be like smoking cigarettes or anything.

Speaker 1 So then I left it at home

Speaker 1 when I went back to Tel Aviv, and I was like, okay, let me just see if I...

Speaker 1 Did I monkey around and get myself addicted? And then, no, I didn't. Right.

Speaker 1 It wasn't there, so I didn't eat it. But this is, I've always been that way with putt.
I know it sounds like it's an invitation for a joke about how it's not addictive.

Speaker 1 I've been doing it for 45 years, and I'm not addicted, but it really isn't in that it doesn't call to me. Like marijuana doesn't say, do me now.
Cigarettes did. Yeah, yeah.
Cigarettes were the boss.

Speaker 1 Right. Or if you're on heroin or cocaine.
Well, you know, also, well, it's easy, especially when you live by yourself. It's easy to get high every night because, well, you're by yourself.

Speaker 1 So you're a little bored. And so you'll be less bored, all right, if you get high.
All right, I think we all, I think we

Speaker 1 I think we all remember Richard Pryor, yeah, yeah, talking rapturously about his love affair with the cracked pipe.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, that he remember he was just in his bedroom with the pipe, and anybody else was a third wheel, yeah, right. I mean, a drunk can be that, yeah, exactly, if they're good.

Speaker 1 No, kids, I don't mean that at all, but no, but it was actually interesting because when I went back to Tel Aviv, I'm like, okay, did I

Speaker 1 smoke in this pipe a little bit too much? I got a little used to it a little bit too much. And then when I went back to Tel Aviv, no, I didn't miss it.
However, I watch a lot of old movies.

Speaker 1 And so when I would watch an old movie and the guy smoking a pipe, okay, I had a little feel. Okay, that would be nice right now.
I admit right now

Speaker 1 watching the old guy in the hat, all right, smoke is making me want to smoke, but I can handle that. But your smoke is for a reason and you inhale it.
Yeah. In the old days.
This isn't inhaling.

Speaker 1 This is just like, you know, it's like a cigar. You take it and you blow it out.
And it just just feels good in your mouth. Yeah.
It's just like it tastes good. You know, it's a powerful.

Speaker 1 It tastes good. Yeah, it tastes good.
And

Speaker 1 yeah, it's just

Speaker 1 kind of a test. Well, first of all, it's that's so funny.
I was inscribing this book. Here, you can read it.

Speaker 1 I may have sent you one of them. You did send me one.
I don't know not an autograph. Oh, I think they are autographed by I sent you, but my assistant did it.
No,

Speaker 1 your sister did it. That's almost like you did.

Speaker 1 But this is, speaking of sophistication, this is what I wrote to you, like, you know, today.

Speaker 1 For the sophistication and the laughs, as the world got a lot stupider and more cowardly.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's really great, man. But it's true.
As the world got stupider and more cowardly, you stayed the course and never pulled a punch. And it was always sophisticated.

Speaker 1 And it was like, no, I'm still going to make movies for adults because, you know, as just since I

Speaker 1 way back in the 90s,

Speaker 1 we were already past that point where children were just much more important than people. Everything was, what about the children? How would it affect you? And I used to say, what about the people?

Speaker 1 Right. You know, I'm a

Speaker 1 childhood survivor. Doesn't that give me some victim credibility there? Can I count too?

Speaker 1 And like in the arts. I think that's what happened is things just got more oriented toward children.
As parents became more indulgent,

Speaker 1 you always trade your well, it also falls on deaf ears when it comes to us because we were subjected to the

Speaker 1 really wild stuff in the 70s as a kid, both in

Speaker 1 movies and TV and oh, it's especially movies and stuff, but and just pop culture. And I think it made us better.

Speaker 1 Well, your book, which I fucking loved, that book you wrote about What is it called?

Speaker 1 Cinema Speculation? Cinema Speculation. And it's so interesting.

Speaker 1 I haven't done it. It's on my to-do list.
All the movies that you did a chapter on that I was,

Speaker 1 I hadn't even heard of a lot of these movies. And I thought I knew all.
I mean, a lot of them I did, of course. But I can't even remember their titles because they weren't familiar to me.
Right, yeah.

Speaker 1 Like Rolling Thunder or something. Oh, that's one of my favorites.
I never even fucking heard of that.

Speaker 1 Should I see it? Oh, well, I think you would actually, no,

Speaker 1 I think it's a terrific movie. But, however.
Who's in it? What's it about? It's a William Devane, a very young Tom Ellie Jones. William Devaney.
I'm a big William Devane fan. I love William Devane.

Speaker 1 And it's written by Paul Schrader, you know, who wrote Taxi Drivers. Of course.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's a good Revenge-Imatic. Oh, great.
Okay. But, like,

Speaker 1 I mean, the ones I love, oh, well, Deliverance. I loved your thing on Deliverance.

Speaker 1 I think that, aside from the biography pieces in there, I think that's the best written cinema piece. I did.
That's why I'm citing it because it stuck up.

Speaker 1 I mean, also, you're working with the movie that, well, I mean, all the movies you made, I mean, I certainly appreciated the ones, again, that I'd seen more, like Dirty Harry, I knew that.

Speaker 1 I knew the getaway. That's very interesting.
I thought that was great. The idea that, you know, back in the production code days,

Speaker 1 you literally couldn't get away.

Speaker 1 I mean, that was almost the whole point of the production code.

Speaker 1 If you commit a crime, which included adultery. Absolutely.
It did. Yeah.
You did not get away with it. And here they're like, no, we got away.
Yeah, no,

Speaker 1 there's a whole thing. And

Speaker 1 you can't hold this against older movies because they literally had to exist under this code. It's not their whole thing.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 But like, you would see, they would do a movie version of,

Speaker 1 say, a fantastic play where the whole point is that the characters do this thing.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 they can do this thing in the movie version, but they all have to pay for it. Exactly.
Including up until 1960 was Where the Boys Are. Yeah, yeah.
The original. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Some people,

Speaker 1 most people will still be too young to remember the remake, but I remembered it was 1984. They remade it.
And it's actually called Where the Boys Are 84. It was? Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, but in the original, this is 1960. This will be interesting to kids because this is the legacy and how it continues.
That's what made Fort Lauderdale

Speaker 1 and that part of southern Florida the spring spring break destination. That movie popularized the idea.
It's Paul Apprentice is in the beginning. She's in school in Minnesota in the winter.

Speaker 1 Spring break. We're all going to Florida.
Right. Barbara Eaton and Connie Francis.
And George Hamilton. George Hamilton, yeah.

Speaker 1 I remember he sat down next to the girl and he just writes a question mark in the sand.

Speaker 1 That's actually a pretty cool move. Very cool.
And then she answers, she gives her name, and he just does it again. And she gives like where she's from.
And he just keeps doing it.

Speaker 1 It's like, wow, that made me want to be George Hamilton,

Speaker 1 who was a pretty cool guy. Yeah, he was pretty cool.
Did you meet him a couple times? Oh, we used to pal around in the 90s.

Speaker 1 I met him a couple of times. We didn't pal around.
Oh, no, no, he was so cool. He had this cigar bar.
No, or he, yeah, I think it was his cigar bar on Santa Monica Boulevard.

Speaker 1 Well, that sounds like a cigar bar I'd want to go to. You would.
It was great, although it stunk of cigars, which I don't like. But

Speaker 1 no, he was very cool, very self-deprecating, you know, not full of himself. Well, he had actually

Speaker 1 some,

Speaker 1 he did a real kind of change his whole

Speaker 1 persona in

Speaker 1 the 70s. He kind of, after being the Steve Stunning guy and everything, but in real life was actually quite funny and

Speaker 1 depreciating.

Speaker 1 He saw how Burt Reynolds revolutionized himself on talk shows. Yep.

Speaker 1 And George Hamilton was kind of number two at that, you know, as far as going on talk shows, one great story after another, really charming, really self-depreciating, really make the host feel really good.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that was just a whole different look for him compared to what it was like in

Speaker 1 the 60s. He would show up.
They had a...

Speaker 1 In the middle of the afternoon, Sandy Barron had a local LA show. Sandy Barron, I remember.
And it was like, you know, it was sort of like what the Regis and Kathy Lee became. Right.

Speaker 1 And I did the show. Have you ever talked about George and Alana? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That was his ex-wife. He did the show with his ex-wife.
Oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 I'm talking about he would just be a guest. He would be a guest on the Sandy Baron show.

Speaker 1 And I was like, wow, this is the guy, George Hamilton? This is Evil Knievel? He's like, he's so charming on this.

Speaker 1 And then he kind of took that persona and did A Love at First Bite. Yes.
Kind of works.

Speaker 1 He was cut out of godfather 3 yeah he had a pretty big role as the the success he really took the the tom hagan part he was the conciliary because now michael's really into legitimate business or mostly of course they pull me back in yeah but um

Speaker 1 but he was i think very disappointed about that i know he was because i remember him talking about it like lots of actors get are very disappointed as they should be when they get cut out of a movie they think they've got a big part and coppola looked at it and he went, well, that's not what the movie's about.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But frankly, to me,

Speaker 1 he was one of the most interesting things about Godfather 3 was the idea of George Hamilton being a Michael's

Speaker 1 lawyer. Yeah, the idea that, well, first of all, there were some brilliant ideas in that.
I mean, I'll tell you why I think it's ultimately not great.

Speaker 1 And most people think it's worse than that. I don't think it's terrible at all because it's very entertaining.

Speaker 1 The reason why I think it never can quite work is because it's a trilogy of a story that has already ended after two. Michael Corleone starts out, that's not me.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's my family, Kay, and goes all the way to, and I kill my brother. Yeah.
Once you go from that arc, which is beautiful, you have nowhere else to go.

Speaker 1 Look, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, there was a thing where

Speaker 1 you probably don't like it, but I'm a big, big fan.

Speaker 1 And I'm not, I don't watch all the animated movies and stuff, but I am a big fan of the toy story trilogy i think that that agnostic never saw it yeah i i

Speaker 1 i

Speaker 1 i think there's only one trilogy that completely and utterly works to the nth degree

Speaker 1 and that's uh uh fistful of dollars for a few dollars more and the good and the bad and the ugly that's a trilogy yeah so yeah those are all the same character it's the man with no name the man with no name yeah right clinneswood yeah and you know so it's like it's one director vision sir gilioni through all three so that's the spaghetti west.

Speaker 1 But the thing about it is it does what no other trilogy has ever, ever been quite able to do.

Speaker 1 The first movie is terrific, but the second movie is

Speaker 1 so great and takes the whole idea for a few dollars more is so great and takes the whole idea to such a bigger canvas that it obliterates. the first one.
Wow.

Speaker 1 And then the third one, Good and the Bad and the Ugly, does the same thing to the second one. And that's kind of what never happens.

Speaker 1 you'll see this big jump from the first to the second and they don't really land the third one right you know um you know mad max road warrior and well beyond thunderdome doesn't dwarf road warrior you know

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 but in the case of so this is toy story in the case of toy story the third one is is just magnificent. It's one of the best movies I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 And if you've seen the other two, then it's just, it's devastating. Is it a cartoon? Yeah, well, it's a, yeah, it's a, yeah, yeah, it's a cartoon.
But the thing is,

Speaker 1 then three years later or something, they did a fourth. And I have no desire to see it.
Right. You literally ended the story as perfect as you could.
Right. So, no, I don't care if it's good.

Speaker 1 I'm done. Why put the condom on? I am done.
It can still be good, but I'm done. Don't put the condom on after you come.

Speaker 1 I mean, if you follow that rule of life.

Speaker 1 But so this is why there's no kill Bill 3. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right? Because you feel like. Oh, I did.
I killed Bill. Right.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 1 I get it. But it's interesting.
I mean, speaking of the threes, now, I mean, three is a magic number in the arts. I mean, it's very often not just trilogies.
People, I mean, the

Speaker 1 Dante's Inferno is written in triplets. Did you know that? Triremes.
Like every line line is threes, threes, threes. No, I did not know that.
For a whole book of, you know,

Speaker 1 and the concentric circles of hell is done in threes. I mean, I thought that was very sick.
Three acts in every

Speaker 1 in the deliverance chapter, if I recall, you are... you love it as we all love it, but you do basically...

Speaker 1 I'm rough on

Speaker 1 the third act. The third act.
And I don't tell me, because you know what? Now that I'm thinking about it,

Speaker 1 I don't think I quite understand what you, because I don't remember the movie.

Speaker 1 Well, because I don't remember the movie. I don't remember what happens in the third act.
Well,

Speaker 1 it's a

Speaker 1 double-headed coin that I have a problem with. One,

Speaker 1 once Burt Reynolds is taken out of the picture, and it's just Ned Beatty and

Speaker 1 John Voigt

Speaker 1 trying to survive and John Voigt has to climb up the mountain and then get one of the hillbillies.

Speaker 1 Why is Burt Reynolds taken out of the picture? Well, because

Speaker 1 he wiped out down the river and his his leg got hit on a rock and he's all he's all he's just taken out he's he's he's messed up

Speaker 1 he's just completely messed up they're carrying him you know they they hide him out but then they can't get away because that hillbilly is up is up on the on the mountain and shoot him right so john voice got to go out and get the hillbilly and hopefully catch him and kill him and then then they got to make their way and now we got to lie about what happened so we don't right so we can get rid put this all behind him and does he complete this quest i don't know he does complete the quest now to me

Speaker 1 part of it is simply just the kind of the movie thing of like, well, I know John Voight's not going to fall off the fucking mountain, so they make a big deal about him climbing the mountain.

Speaker 1 But of course, he's going to not just fall off the mountain and die. Okay, but John Voigt is the character who we, as the Everyman, relate to.
Yeah, he's the one, yeah. He's.

Speaker 1 Burt Reynolds is a bit of a superhero. Yeah, yeah.
Okay, and Ned Beatty is the opposite. He's the guy who has to squeal like a pig because he gets fucked in the ass.

Speaker 1 I seem to recall you saying you saw this with your mother.

Speaker 1 Yeah, which blows my mind because I couldn't watch HBO with my mother because there would be some sex scene or something that was just made me like turn beat red inside.

Speaker 1 But you watched it with your mother. Yes, I did.

Speaker 1 But your mother was cooler. Yeah, she was, well, my mom was pretty cool about stuff like that.
But to me, the real problem

Speaker 1 with the movie is

Speaker 1 when they decide to go to town and now they're going to lie about what happened and not mention the rape and not mention the hillbillies that they killed.

Speaker 1 And just if we can just get past this thing, all right, then no one ever has to know about this and we can go on with our lives. And then

Speaker 1 they show up in the town and they report it to the sheriff.

Speaker 1 Whether or not they could pull this off should be one of the most exciting parts of the movie. Right.

Speaker 1 All right, because I mean, they could say what really happened and take their chances in court, but no,

Speaker 1 we're going to double down. Right.
We're going to get away with this whole thing completely or not at all. Right.

Speaker 1 Like it never happened.

Speaker 1 And that should be one of the most exciting things. But John Borman doesn't really play it for suspense.

Speaker 1 He could have cast like a really trivic, like a Wilford Brimley type of actor to be the sheriff who, like, I know something's up.

Speaker 1 I'm not just a folksy old sheriff, but I know something's up between you guys.

Speaker 1 And that could, and you could have been shitting bricks, all right, watching that happen. And it's just all treated with their left hand.
It's all treated,

Speaker 1 it's all,

Speaker 1 it just, it's a, it's a fizzle. It just, it's like a pop.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 As opposed to. It ends with a whimper and not a bang.
Yeah, it absolutely ends with a whimper. And to me, it's just a, it's a, it, it, it's a,

Speaker 1 it's a bizarre decision to undramatize that situation.

Speaker 1 But the question you ask, I feel like, is the question that makes everything either sophisticated or not, as opposed to movies that end with someone shooting rays out of their fingers.

Speaker 1 Okay, this is, this is is not sophistication. Okay, I'm not saying it's bad and you can enjoy it and I enjoy stupid things too.
But a sophistication. You still like my wife because my wife is like,

Speaker 1 well, I'll take, I don't consider this this, but okay, I'll take her to see like that, one of the latest King Kong movies, King Kong Skull Island. And she liked it well enough.

Speaker 1 But that's a children's movie. It is.
It's a movie for children.

Speaker 1 That's exactly what I'm always saying. Things are in.
She sees Wonder Woman. Yeah, okay, for a children's movie, it's okay.
Absolutely. That's what I'm always saying.

Speaker 1 Either something is for children or adults. It's okay.
I can like children's stuff too, but not that much. Hey, friend in high places, my new favorite podcast with Matt Friend coming out on YouTube.

Speaker 1 You got to check it out. And the first guest is me.

Speaker 2 If you're a smoker or vapor, ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zin nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

Speaker 2 Zin is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program.
There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zin.

Speaker 2 Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you.

Speaker 2 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 1 When you have to ask yourself as the audience member,

Speaker 1 if I was in that situation,

Speaker 1 Would I do that, what the character did, and would it make me bad? Or would I do the same thing? Michael Corleone. You know, I mean, Michael Corleone kills a lot of people, but he's pulled into it

Speaker 1 because he wants to avenge the death of his father and protect his father, which is something that we all can relate to. So is he a bad person? Or would I in the same situation? Well,

Speaker 1 I think it goes even deeper than that because the thing is,

Speaker 1 Coppola makes the family so vital that you're actually able to look at the Godfather

Speaker 1 on one level as a movie about a family business. It could be about the family dry cleaners.
Olive oil. Yeah.
They were in the olive oil.

Speaker 1 They were in the olive oil business, but it could be, they could be fighting all about the barbecue joint that the family has opened. And this brother

Speaker 1 knows the barbecue sauce and this brother knows how to cook the meat. Sure.
And they don't fucking like each other.

Speaker 1 But they fucking need each other.

Speaker 1 And here's the plot. Someone suggests they now get into the frozen yogurt industry.
that's like that's like the heroine of this yeah

Speaker 1 i don't know there's a lot of money in that uh frozen ice cream we're just selling up to the side you're ruining the whole texas vibe of it i predict frozen yogurt will be the death of this

Speaker 1 i was against it then and i'm against it now if all the people in this room who sold frozen yogurt were to die i'd be the only ones standing

Speaker 1 and they will be the peace don coleone will provide production for the frozen yogurt industry in the east

Speaker 1 After all, we are not communists.

Speaker 1 But yeah, that is, to me, the key is like you ask yourself,

Speaker 1 would I do that in that situation? Otherwise, the character is two-dimensional. Well, you know,

Speaker 1 I saw an interesting movie

Speaker 1 from the 30s. It's written by Agatha Christie.
It's based on an Agatha Christie story. It's called

Speaker 1 Love from a Stranger.

Speaker 1 And it's where this kind of regular, mundane woman lives a hard scrap of life, but she's okay. And

Speaker 1 she ends up winning the lottery.

Speaker 1 And she becomes rich all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 And so she's on a cruise and meets Basil Rathbone. Oh, Sherlock Holmes.
Yeah, Sherlock Holmes. And one of the great actors, one of the great talkers, as far as like

Speaker 1 actors' voices.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he completely sweeps her off her feet and then marries her and uh

Speaker 1 now

Speaker 1 have you seen the poster of this movie if you've read about this movie to even enough to want to watch it written by agatha christie

Speaker 1 you know what you're watching you're watching a movie about a guy who's gonna fucking kill his kill his wife he married her obviously because she's rich and he's going to kill her it's that kind of movie right you kind of know what type of movie you bought a ticket for sure a feel-good movie he's gonna kill his wife you said it

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 so we know

Speaker 1 what we're watching all right and um

Speaker 1 we're heading towards it

Speaker 1 but she doesn't know the kind she doesn't know she's in a movie so

Speaker 1 we know this guy's a rotter

Speaker 1 but We're also watching it from her perspective. When is she going to figure it out? Right.
Because we're a little bit ahead of the curve. Right.
And they never show him doing anything.

Speaker 1 In fact, he's even creepier because he never really gives you any reason, other than that we know, other than we know that he's going to do it.

Speaker 1 He never gives us any indication that he's going to do it, which makes him all the creepier.

Speaker 1 But the thing is.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we know, but we keep looking through her eyes and there's nothing he does that raises a red flag. She's not stupid.
She's far from stupid.

Speaker 1 And so we keep waiting for her to see something and ignore it or or or or or be a patsy but no he's that good

Speaker 1 until it finally ends up that she puts it all together but when she puts it all together they're staying for the weekend in a cabin in the woods and this is the night he's going to kill her

Speaker 1 It's a really, really terrific

Speaker 1 I can't tell you. You should watch it.
It's a fun movie.

Speaker 1 Well, you won't watch it, but somebody out there in TV landscape. Oh, I might.
What is it called? Love from a Stranger. Oh, yeah, that's a famous title.

Speaker 1 What the Irresist, 40s? It's like, no, it's like

Speaker 1 39. Wow.
39, the Anes Barablis year. Yeah, that was a great year.
That was a great year from Hollywood movies. Gone with the Wind and The Wizard of Oz.
Yes. I mean, plus, like, plus.

Speaker 1 Actually, my favorite movie of 1939 is The Man in the Iron Mask. Oh.

Speaker 1 Louis Hayward and directed by James Whale, who did the Frankenstein. I saw, I guess, the remake of it with Leonardo DiCaprio.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and then they also, but they had a big remake in the 70s, the Richard Chamberlain version that they showed on the Hallmark Hall of Fame. Is this where the twin takes over the castle?

Speaker 1 Because the remake is so stupid.

Speaker 1 First of all, I mean, I'll suspend my belief, as you have to in the arts, for things

Speaker 1 like identical twins. I'm not unreasonable.

Speaker 1 But he's in an iron mask for six years. And when they take the mask off, his skin is perfect.
And

Speaker 1 he looks exactly like the guy who's been living as the king for six years. Exactly.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm not talking about that one.

Speaker 1 I'm talking about the 1939 version. That one I stand behind.

Speaker 1 But that's also one of those actually interesting things, though.

Speaker 1 Well, at least it's interesting to me, because it's... It's based on a very famous Alexander Dumont novel.
Right. Okay.

Speaker 1 Three Musketeers. Yeah, yeah.
The same author, right? Same author. And it's the same era.
And well, it's also a sequel to that. D'Artagnan and the Three Musketeers are characters in it.

Speaker 1 They're certainly characters in the DiCaprio movie. No, but they're characters in the book.
Right. It's part of it.
Gabriel Byrne, I think.

Speaker 1 Again, you keep referencing that.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I think Tim, your boy, Tim Roth, I think, is in it. I don't think he's in that one.
I don't think he's... No, I don't.

Speaker 1 He's in that... The one where they have the ladder fight.

Speaker 1 It was called The Musketeer. But he's not in that one.
But anyway, the thing is, though,

Speaker 1 it's a pretty famous story.

Speaker 1 In 39, they hired this really terrific

Speaker 1 screenwriter named George Bruce to take the novel and turn it into a movie. And he did, and that's the movie that I like.

Speaker 1 And they do such a good job of it. that you kind of just think, oh, well, that must be the story.
That it's such a classic story and it plays out so well. You just assume that, oh,

Speaker 1 that's what's in Dumas' book.

Speaker 1 So because I liked the story so much and I liked a couple of other versions of it, I decided to read the book. The book's fucking terrible.
So is the Great Gatsby. No, no, the opposite.

Speaker 1 The Great Gatsby,

Speaker 1 they keep making the movie, it keeps sucking. And then I may say to myself, maybe it's not a great book.

Speaker 1 But you're saying the opposite. Yeah, I'm saying the opposite.
You said that about Deliverance. The book is not that great.
The book isn't that.

Speaker 1 But the movie does improve it.

Speaker 1 The movie definitely improves the book. And I did not expect that to be the case.
The actors really take. It absolutely can happen that a movie is better than a book.

Speaker 1 But one of the things I talk about in the deliverance thing, and I want to get back to the Mad of the Iron Mass thing, but the one thing I was talking about in the deliverance thing is in most cases, a movie can't help but be a reduction when it comes to the book.

Speaker 1 You can't just help it. It can't include everything.
Yeah, it's just what it is. That's kind of not the case with deliverance.

Speaker 1 I can imagine John Borman reading the book and thinking, oh, shit, I can do something with this. Right.
Oh, I can cast this well. Right.

Speaker 1 And actually going down the river, seeing that, that will be important. Right.
Seeing the trees, that will be important. This environment will be, I've got something to do here.
Right.

Speaker 1 It's not like I have to figure out what do I lose. What can I add? Let's get started.
And that doesn't happen that often. He's a visual stylist, anyways.
Right.

Speaker 1 Let's get started on storyboardering the ass fucking scene. I want to see pictures.
I want to see drawings. But really, when you think about it.

Speaker 1 Let me finish my thought on the man with the iron mask. The thing that was cool about that, though, is I'm reading it, I'm like, oh my God, I realized that this screenwriter, George Bruce,

Speaker 1 kind of invented the story that we all know and just

Speaker 1 grafted it onto his screenplay. And now we all think that that's the story.

Speaker 1 But the thing that's funny is, okay, when they do the Richard Chamberlain version in 1979, they did a version with Bo Bridges playing the two guys. Bo Bridges.

Speaker 1 And in each case, they hadn't read the book either. They want to do the Louis Hayward movie with just with their guy.
All right. So that they

Speaker 1 set it all up, and then they read the book and they go, we don't want to do this shit.

Speaker 1 So they all keep remaking the same of the first movie. Right.

Speaker 1 Because that's the story they want to tell, because that's now the story. That's so interesting.
And it's all a screenwriter. So how could somebody who loves movies this much ever walk away?

Speaker 1 I know I say this every time, and I'm a broken record, but like, you've got to be kidding. First of all, you know, you're just too young.
You just, you don't, you don't. I like it.

Speaker 1 But you don't present as old. I mean, this country has certainly had a moment where we confronted this idea of people who just present as old.

Speaker 1 Because Joe Biden, I don't think he lost his marbles, but he presents as old. You don't.
If you don't, you probably have like a lot of things left in you. So again,

Speaker 1 and I hear, this is only the scuttlebutt, I hear you are, it's a done deal. You're directing the next Star Trek movie.
What's it going to be about?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what is your vision for Star Trek? Well, I had, I,

Speaker 1 well, it's never going to happen. So I've been, there's been so many, there's been so much misinformation about what it was going to be.
I mean, nothing but misinformation about it.

Speaker 1 That's a big word in today's world, misinformation.

Speaker 1 It's a trigger word for me. Because even though there is a lot of misinformation, it's also a weapon you can throw at something to just stop a debate.

Speaker 1 I mean, there was a lot of misinformation about COVID that wasn't actually misinformation. Yeah.
Oh, no, look, look, I understand what you're talking about, but

Speaker 1 I live in this other,

Speaker 1 I live in a special zone.

Speaker 1 And part of my zone is Because I'm not on Instagram and I'm not on Facebook and I'm not on the social media thing.

Speaker 1 So thus I'm not creating this constant dialogue of, you know, with the world about what's going on with my life. And you don't need to.
You're above it. And so, so, but, but consequently,

Speaker 1 if you're Joe Schlomocha and you're some sort of a

Speaker 1 transient celebrity reporter of some kind,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 If you hear Quentin is going to make a Star Trek movie or Quentin is going to do a movie called The Movie Critic or Quentin is going going to do any fucking thing. Okay.

Speaker 1 It's a little bit like when that guy wrote that Howard Hughes biography that ended up being a hoax. Clifford.
Clifford Irving. Clifford Irving.

Speaker 1 The thing is,

Speaker 1 they can say anything. Oh,

Speaker 1 Quentin is going to cast. Tom Cruise.
It's for sure. Quentin is going to cast Tom Cruise as the movie critic, or Quentin is going to cast Tom Cruise as Captain Kirk.
Or Quentin is going to cast...

Speaker 1 Yeah. Just send that on the Instagram.

Speaker 1 The thing that was kind of funny about the movie critic was they started saying that I was going to cast that actor Paul Paul Walter Hauser. Who's that? He's an actor and it's been a few things.

Speaker 1 He played Richard Jewell in the Richard Jewell movie. Oh, he was good.
But the thing that was funny about it, I think they just think he looks like a critic. That's what they expect.

Speaker 1 Okay, but my point being, though, is they write it in,

Speaker 1 you know, Show Biz

Speaker 1 Daily or whatever. Something.
Show Biz Weekly. I read it.
And then that gets picked up in 140 pieces. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 because I'm not shutting that down because I'm not all connected, then that's just reported as if it's true. And it's true for a couple of weeks

Speaker 1 because no one knows anything better because I'm not filling them in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I had a talk with him.

Speaker 1 It's not a bad thing. It actually, I mean,

Speaker 1 the egomaniac in me thinks that the idea that 142 articles can be printed about just speculation of what I'm going to do, I appreciate that a lot. That means I'm in a good place.

Speaker 1 The egomaniac Elvis guy part of me goes, yeah, right on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what about the two Oscars that you have and how lonely they are and how they cry at night wanting a third sibling?

Speaker 1 I'm just saying I have some ideas.

Speaker 1 for you to win that next Oscar. Okay, the only thing.

Speaker 1 Okay, first of all, I think you should do a movie on a train.

Speaker 1 I've actually just had a

Speaker 1 train. I want to hear it.
I want to hear your idea. The three, I've read this, the three greatest like 30s comedies, some like it hot, and that's not the

Speaker 1 30s to 60s comedies.

Speaker 1 Some like it hot, the 20th century, and Palm Beach Story, I think, they all take place on a train.

Speaker 1 Because it's because it's kind of like you're trapped. You know, you can, it's it, I mean, they're all great movies.
No, I mean, no, it's funny that you're saying this because I actually just,

Speaker 1 I do a podcast with Roger Avery and we we watch movies and it's called the Video Archives Podcast.

Speaker 1 And the thing is, we just watched this really fun movie from the 90s, early 90s called Narrow Margin with Gene Hackman and Ann Archer.

Speaker 1 And it's a train movie and we have a big talk about how fun train movies are.

Speaker 1 There's James Bond stuff on a train. Oh, the big fight, but him and Robert Shaw is in the train.
Right. And Tom Cruise has done trained

Speaker 1 stuff.

Speaker 1 But as a comedy, you know, like, I feel like you could do a straight-up comedy. I agree with you, but, you know, I mean, Spielberg did a comedy in early on 1941.
I feel like hugely underappreciated.

Speaker 1 I agree. I'm a big fan of 19 movies.
I love that movie. And it's very funny.
And Scorsese did After Midnight. Yeah, yeah.
Remember that? After Hours, yeah. After Hours with Griffin Doe.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's good. It's such a good, funny movie.
Like,

Speaker 1 just to show, I mean, I felt like, look, I can do this too.

Speaker 1 I may not even go back to it. And neither one of them ever went back to it.
Yeah. I guess because they didn't have a like, the critics like sort of were out to get them at that moment.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, at the same time, you know, I mean, but they missed those. Those are good movies.
I agree. I really agree.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 I'm leaning more towards writing right now for a while, uh, trying for a while anyway, uh, theater

Speaker 1 and in theater, yeah, yeah, uh, uh, and, and in theater, uh,

Speaker 1 it would be funny stuff.

Speaker 1 I can't go to the theater. I need to make a movie.

Speaker 1 Well, if it's a popular play, then I'll probably make a movie.

Speaker 1 Really? But why do we even have to try it out in the theater?

Speaker 1 I mean, the theater, like you got to, like, get a shower in and put on clothes and like go out and let me let me tell let me tell can i tell you the attraction for me yeah why it sounds good i mean you know you've met you've had david mammet sit here before oh i love him okay i'll tell you exactly why it's interesting but one i haven't done it so we'll see what happens all right but the thing is uh um i meant two things are interesting

Speaker 1 one

Speaker 1 the idea of especially if it was funny, especially if it was a comedy,

Speaker 1 the idea of doing something where,

Speaker 1 oh, no, it's in a comedy play, the audience is a character in the room. And it's like, you say this, they laugh.

Speaker 1 The actors kind of wait for a moment to get the, for the laugh to die, then they got to pick their pace. And it's a rhythm.
It's almost like the audience is almost like a live animal in the room.

Speaker 1 There's a type of play, I've seen them. I think it's called a drawing room comedy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh. Where they, or maybe there's another word for it, but I saw one of them.

Speaker 1 I forget the name of it but back in the 90s I think and it's like there's four doors yeah and the people come in and out oh yeah yeah oh no and then and then that door closing is a line that right and then somebody I mean it's all about timing yeah it's almost like watching something that's a little above what a normal yeah and the and the thing is when that works wow that's a That's an evening out.

Speaker 1 That was funny.

Speaker 1 There was a reason why it was in that room and there was an interplay between the actors and the

Speaker 1 capture on film. Yeah, that's really hard to capture on film.
That could be something really, really special.

Speaker 1 The other thing that could be really neat about it is if the show were successful, then I would have the

Speaker 1 joy of seeing different actors. play those characters.
When I do a movie, it's okay, the actor I cast plays the character, and then that's the character. And that's kind of what you want.

Speaker 1 You want them to kind of own that character.

Speaker 1 But in a play, it's like, no, no actor owns the role. This actor will play it.
And even if it's a big hit, okay, well, somebody else will do the London show and somebody else will do the tour.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then colleges and high schools can do it later. And I feel like you're like the last one who will stand up against the current trend to

Speaker 1 cast not by merit.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But and also to, I mean, the whole thing about about like

Speaker 1 cultural appropriation that,

Speaker 1 you know, who was it? We did a whole thing about it. It's in that book.
Yeah. Oh, John Leguizamo, who I like, but he was complaining about,

Speaker 1 who was it? Some white guy who was playing Castro. Yeah.
He's like, but he's not Cuban. But John Leguizamo has played parts where he played Super Mario.
He's not Italian. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's like it's Tom Hanks said he would not play the character in Philadelphia today. Oh, really? Because he's not really gay, which I feel is so gay

Speaker 1 in

Speaker 1 the Eminem way.

Speaker 1 I mean, I mean, I mean, the thing about it is, I mean, look, I guess

Speaker 1 I have no problem

Speaker 1 with

Speaker 1 any actor playing any type of another race role for anything that's happened kind of up until now. Okay, now there is, now I,

Speaker 1 now it actually, I would ask the question, well, what, but you couldn't find a Mexican guy to play this Mexican guy? All right. Uh-uh.
Right. And

Speaker 1 no, you couldn't find an American Indian of all the people that exist. You can't find, you know.
Certainly an Indian because they just don't look. the same.
And certainly there's Mexican.

Speaker 1 I understand that. No, but I mean, I even feel, but I even feel like, I don't want to see some American do a phony French accent when there's French people, when there's French actors.

Speaker 1 But that's an exaggerated version of it. They're talking about things like Tom Hanks as a gay, like

Speaker 1 I think you should be able to play. Well,

Speaker 1 that's the part that I, that's where I, that's where I would kind of draw the line. If it comes to a different race, well, that I can understand, but I also

Speaker 1 feel all of Latin America is eligible to play all the rest of Latin America.

Speaker 1 We're not going to cast Mickey Rooney again as a Japanese man or Jerry Lewis with a bucket. But if it comes to sexual sexual preference, then anybody should play that role.

Speaker 1 Right, because we're not supposed to know what people's sexual preference or care about them anyway. It's so hypocritical.
And there also is an aspect about acting going on. Of course.
You know,

Speaker 1 it's like, I mean,

Speaker 1 I would be interested to see

Speaker 1 Al Pacino play a drag queen to see

Speaker 1 the drag queen Al Pacino would come up with because he's a great actor.

Speaker 1 You know what movie I was watching recently, and I swear to God, the character, and don't take this the wrong way, but he came off kind of gay,

Speaker 1 Hal in 2001. Oh, well, he, oh, yes.

Speaker 1 Well, that's always kind of been a subtext, in it. Really? Yeah, well, well, I mean, he gets very gay.
His manner. His manner, yeah.
His manner. Yeah, his manner.

Speaker 1 I thought I was the only one to see this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, if people don't remember, I mean, first of all, what is your interpretation of that whole movie? You'd be a great one to ask that.

Speaker 1 I mean, at the beginning, we see the apes. And by the way, when you watched it fairly recently, it's so obvious that they're men in ape costume.
I guess we would do that differently today.

Speaker 1 Although, I don't know how you would get the apes to actually do the things that the director wanted them to do. It's hard enough to get the actors to do what you wanted to do.
Am I right? Okay.

Speaker 1 But the apes, yes, they're obviously men in ape suits. But those are pretty good ape suits, though.

Speaker 1 I agree. They're pretty good at, pretty good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I don't mind that, though i don't mind it either it's 1968 but i mean but in that instance particular that does not break me out of not at all okay it's 1968 i agree so okay the first 20 minutes of the movie is the apes first they're like they're just

Speaker 1 doing ape shit but they don't seem to be like you know going ape shit about anything then the monolith comes

Speaker 1 This is the big thing. I remember my mother and father talking about it when I was 12 years old.
They were like debating, which is what you want in your household.

Speaker 1 Your parents yeah absolutely debating art yeah yeah and they were like

Speaker 1 the monolith and you couldn't by the way in 1968 go on the internet and say what are people saying about this you had to know what you were saying well no but

Speaker 1 you know something that you might that i don't know if your parents did but my parents did it and i i think a lot of

Speaker 1 a lot of people our age their parents did it is my parents like uh had bridge night oh my father was a big bridge player and so all you know so all of a sudden it was was like two or three couples would show up at the house

Speaker 1 and they would play bridge. And,

Speaker 1 you know, and it was made pretty clear. Okay, no, this is not the time for you to be fucking around.
No, the adults are going to be doing their thing. Right.

Speaker 1 And you can come and say hello, but we're doing our thing. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 during that playing a bridge, they would talk about 2001 or anything that was interesting going on at the time. Yes.

Speaker 1 And what's different about today, because, you know, yes, I don't have kids, but I have been in the homes of people who have kids. And I'm always quite amazed that the kids, and I mean from 10 up,

Speaker 1 you know, teenagers invite themselves into the adult conversations without asking and without the parents remonstrating about this at all.

Speaker 1 And if I ever did that, if I just walked into the adult conversation, you know what I think we should do about Vietnam?

Speaker 1 Get the fuck out of here, you little whipper snapper.

Speaker 1 Well, look, I've definitely been in houses where the kids ran herd over the adult conversations, you know, and usually you're even describing where they're actually trying to engage in the topic at hand.

Speaker 1 Okay, normally it's no, they're talking about their kids' shit, and we're all supposed to stop.

Speaker 1 I'm very proud of my four-year-old son.

Speaker 1 Because when adults, when adults come over and we're going to have dinner and we're going to have adult time, they can still be like in the room where the TV is with the nanny or whatever.

Speaker 1 And then they come over, but

Speaker 1 he knows this is adult time and

Speaker 1 it's not Leo's time. And he is a guest here.

Speaker 1 And he's wonderful. And

Speaker 1 he dips his toe in. It's all cool.
He doesn't break the vibe.

Speaker 1 Okay, first of all, Quentin, at four, I don't think they're interested in you.

Speaker 1 Tell me this in six years. When they're old enough to like want to be in the adult conversation, that's when you got to tell them to go fuck off.
Well,

Speaker 1 that might be true, but the thing about it is he's respecting the idea that

Speaker 1 the adults are here.

Speaker 1 And normally his needs get the attention, get all the attention. Are you here? He's...
What is age four like? I've always heard the term terrible twos, so

Speaker 1 I have an idea what the twos are like. But four must be very different from two.
Yeah, four is very different from two. I mean, look, he's still,

Speaker 1 he's still a little boy. There can still be moments where he just wants his mommy, you know,

Speaker 1 or he gets a little scared about something. But he's much, much more articulate.

Speaker 1 He's really, he's putting together phrases now as opposed to words. He knows what he wants.
He actually, you know, I mean, aesthetically. Sure, great.
You know, he has the stuff that he likes. And

Speaker 1 just even as far as like, I've watched him go from

Speaker 1 watching simple things that are 10 minutes to 15 minutes in length. So now he watches like

Speaker 1 more involved things that can go to a half hour. That's more than a lot of American adults do.
And then like, you know, and then you can watch maybe three of those in a row. Right.

Speaker 1 You know, because I was thinking, well, he's not quite ready to watch a movie as far as his attention span from.

Speaker 1 Certainly not one of yours. Yeah, not one of mine.

Speaker 1 But the other day he did watch a movie. It was, it was literally a thing where I was like, okay, we'll watch this for maybe 20 minutes.
And then at some point, he'll start climbing the chair.

Speaker 1 And that lets me know that he's lost his attention span. Or he'll say, hey, can we do something else?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 so I put on a Despicable Me Three.

Speaker 1 And he'd seen the other two in segments. And so we're watching it.
And well, he's kind of got past the 20-minute point and he's like, kind of like into it, into it.

Speaker 1 I go, okay, well, let's see how far this goes. And then we got to the

Speaker 1 like 45-minute point. And he's still kind of watching it.
And not only that, he's laughing out loud about sight gags that he thinks are really funny. And then there's even a couple of scary parts.

Speaker 1 And he's like, oh, this is scary. But then he got through them.
He got through them. And then now we're into other stuff.
And when we finally got to the director credit,

Speaker 1 I'm cheering on silently for these last 15 minutes to make sure his concentration. But no, it's a good movie.
He was caught up in the end. He wanted to see how it all came out.

Speaker 1 But that was the first time that I realized that he had the attention span to watch an actual motion picture from beginning to end. But spoiler alert, I think the actual epiphany here is about you.

Speaker 1 Yes, he had one, but I predict you're going to make another movie, but it's going to be one that you want him to see because I saw Jerry Seinfeld do the same thing.

Speaker 1 Jerry Seinfeld made a movie called Be Movie. Yeah, it's a good movie.
Very good movie. But he had little kids, and I think he wanted to make a movie that the little kids could watch and love.
Oh,

Speaker 1 that would be an honorable.

Speaker 1 I bet you that is going to be an ineluctable pull for you to get back into this. Maybe.
Yeah. Well, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Speaker 1 So may I suggest the Three Stooges go to the Fire Festival.

Speaker 1 The Three Stooges go to Fire Ireland? Go to the Fire Festival. I kind of like the Stooges go to Fire Ireland.
Or that.

Speaker 1 That could be fun, too.

Speaker 1 Oh, I used to love the Three Stooges. I mean, I lived for the Three Stooges and Superman.
I was a snob. I didn't watch cartoons.

Speaker 1 Still really. Did you watch The Little Rascals? Because they were usually connected to the Three Stooges.
Yes, because that was film. Right.

Speaker 1 I watched the, and also the Bowery boys were very influential in my upbringing because the Bowery boys were bad.

Speaker 1 Okay, here's the thing. Okay, well, let's make sure we're talking about the right guys, okay, because here's the thing.
Hunts Hall.

Speaker 1 Well, no, no, I know I know Hunt Hall and Leo Gorsey, but the thing is that there's two different groups. Well, there's three different groups.
Really? Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 This is explained in the Paradise Alley chapter of my book. All right.
So

Speaker 1 initially, there was this group called The Dead End Kids. And then they were in this play on Broadway, and they were so popular that Warner Brothers signed them up.

Speaker 1 And they put them in like one great movie after another.

Speaker 1 They made me a criminal. Angels with Dirty Faces.

Speaker 1 They're literally acting opposite the biggest actors in the Warner Brothers. Isn't Bogart in one of those? Yeah, Bogart's in one called Crime School.
Okay. John Garfield's in They Made Me a Criminal.

Speaker 1 James Cagney is in

Speaker 1 Angels with Dirty Faces, one of the most famous of all the gangster films.

Speaker 1 And so they were really, really popular for a while. Then Warner Brothers decided, okay, enough of these kids.
And so

Speaker 1 now they're still popular. So they go off to make a deal.
And Leo Gorsey takes one group of them and starts the Eastside Kids. And he makes it with one of the cheapy studios called Monogram.

Speaker 1 Now, here's the thing:

Speaker 1 the Eastside Kids,

Speaker 1 there's the east side kids and there's the bowery boys the they they do the east side kids for a long long period of time and then then and then leo gorsey starts another one all over again so he can own own more money over it and he changes the bowery boys

Speaker 1 and he takes some of them with him now the difference between the east side kids and the bowery boys is the east side kids are really tough the bowery boys they're buffoons

Speaker 1 So I don't like the Bowery Boys movies, but oftentimes people will use Bowery Boys to mean

Speaker 1 any of them. I always saw the Leo Gorsey character as sort of like the Mo

Speaker 1 of whatever group he was in, right?

Speaker 1 Well, no, that would be a good way to describe him, but frankly, but in his better guys and the Eastside Kids, he's more like Robert Blake.

Speaker 1 Okay, Robert Blake. In fact, Robert Blake is obviously influenced by Leo Gorsey in his whole Beretta persona.
Beretta? Yeah, Robert Blake. Yeah,

Speaker 1 Robert Blake's entire little tough guy persona that he had with Beret had his Beretta and on the talk shows and

Speaker 1 that his whole kind of way of talking is he was completely influenced by Leo Gorsi in the Eastside Kids movies.

Speaker 1 I can see that.

Speaker 1 The way he strangled the English language, but like

Speaker 1 a poetic, entertaining effect.

Speaker 1 I saw recently and I had never seen it. It's one of those.
I'm going to have another hit on that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's one of those

Speaker 1 movies that I remember it was out and I just never caught up with it. Tell them Willie Boy is here.
Oh, yeah. Robert Blake, Robert Redford.

Speaker 1 What's your take on that? I mean, he's an Indian.

Speaker 1 Well, that movie has a,

Speaker 1 I don't think that movie works as a movie, but it's interesting what the director is trying to do

Speaker 1 because he's.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he's using a gigantic, he's using this whole Indian thing as a gigantic metaphor because what he's, the story he's telling in where he's coming from,

Speaker 1 telling Willie Boy is about a Black Panther, but he can't tell that story. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So he takes, yeah, so he takes a Black Panther story and he sets it in the Old West and he makes it an Indian. Right.
All right.

Speaker 1 And then to make, and then to, and to double down on the iconography, not only does he cast Golden Boy Robert Redford to represent both white man and the law, he names him Coop. You're right.

Speaker 1 As in Gary Cooper. Oh, I see.
Wow. That's interesting.
So Golden Boy is playing Golden Boy rep, and this is representing white America law.

Speaker 1 And speaking of casting an Indian as an Indian, the Indian woman who Robert Blake is involved with is played by Catherine Ross,

Speaker 1 late of the graduate the year before, two years before, where she's playing a debutante. So you could be a debutante in one movie and a year later be an Indian.
That's where we were.

Speaker 1 Well, the sad thing about it is, Robert Blake pulls off Indian roles perfectly.

Speaker 1 Perfectly. No issue there.

Speaker 1 He's great.

Speaker 1 Catherine Roth is terrible.

Speaker 1 Including when he killed his squaw outside of a restaurant in the valley.

Speaker 1 He snuck up behind her and scalped her. Well, remember that story? He went back to get his gun.

Speaker 1 Was that the.

Speaker 1 Well, you know,

Speaker 1 he was on trial and he was found innocent. He was found not guilty.
I used to see him at the Playboy Mansion.

Speaker 1 I was friendly with him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's like somebody, if he hadn't killed his wife,

Speaker 1 you would have revived his career. Well, yeah, well, yeah, okay.
Well, one, we don't know if he killed his wife. He went to jail.
He went to trial and he was found not guilty.

Speaker 1 He definitely killed his wife

Speaker 1 you can say that i'm gonna actually go with i don't know and the jury said not guilty isn't that legit okay is that not legit okay but as i recall now this is going back maybe you will recorrect the record in my mind i know we can move the furniture

Speaker 1 uh i they had dinner in the valley i think the restaurant was called botello's yeah

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 so they go out after dinner and he was not happy in the marriage and she was kind of like a some sort of

Speaker 1 mail-order bride type. I mean, it was like she's like a conman kind of scammer.
She was absolutely a con man scammer.

Speaker 1 And so it was sort of like pathetic to begin with that someone who had been a star and was famous and was walking around the Playboy mansion. He's married to this predator.

Speaker 1 This is the best he can do.

Speaker 1 And he, they have dinner there, and then they go out to the leave. They get in the car, and he says, oh, I got to go back to the restaurant.
I forgot my gun.

Speaker 1 Or I don't know. I don't remember what

Speaker 1 it is.

Speaker 1 But then she's dead in the car. But then, no, but then, okay, but okay.
I actually saw Robert Blake on

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 Phil Donahue show.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's funny to begin with. No, it's a very, it's a really,

Speaker 1 you should look up this episode. It's worth watching.
Okay, so now here's the thing the whole fucking episode every minute of it um

Speaker 1 but one of the things that's really funny

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 blake is just being him and he and he's and he's a little bit more comfortable than he's been i think in in in in front of the camera in in in in a while and the reason he's a little bit more comfortable the audience likes him The audience fucking digs him.

Speaker 1 This is after the murder. Yeah.
Uh-huh. The audience digs him.
They get into his vibe. They like OJ.
And

Speaker 1 you could tell that

Speaker 1 Dr. Phil's a little sketchy about the dude.

Speaker 1 And it makes fantastic television. But one of the scenes that's really Phil Donahue, not Dr.
Phil. Dr.
Phil. No, Dr.
Phil. It's Dr.
Phil I'm talking about. Did I say Phil Donahue? I mean, Dr.
Phil.

Speaker 1 Oh. Oh, yeah, you said Phil Donahue.
Yeah, I mean, Dr. Phil, sorry.

Speaker 1 Okay, I meant Dr. Phil.
Okay, it's even funnier now, right? It is even funnier. Okay, so it's Dr.
Phil. So,

Speaker 1 so Blake

Speaker 1 deals with what people say

Speaker 1 and he deals with

Speaker 1 the scenario, and

Speaker 1 he says it incredulously about the theory against him. He goes, okay.

Speaker 1 So let me, okay, so if I understand you correctly.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'll do it like Blake. Okay, so

Speaker 1 if I understand you correctly,

Speaker 1 my whole plan was this.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 Mr. Hitman, I want you to kill my wife.
I want you to offer.

Speaker 1 Wait till I take her out to dinner.

Speaker 1 So I'm there. It's got to be important that I'm there when the hitman kills my wife.
Okay, so I will take her out to dinner.

Speaker 1 And when I'm not looking,

Speaker 1 I think if I wanted to kill my wife, I could have done it even better than that. You know, that's probably true.
No, you know, I could have, I never really thought about it that much. You're right.

Speaker 1 I mean, that absolutely could be the case.

Speaker 1 But OJ, you got to admit, that one looks better.

Speaker 1 My holding on to what the jury says maybe doesn't extend as far as to OJ, at least as far as my thoughts.

Speaker 1 But what about the whole theory now, but maybe it was the son?

Speaker 1 OJ?

Speaker 1 Well, I would say that that doesn't change my opinion of OJ that much, that he actually wouldn't kill his own wife on his own.

Speaker 1 Hey, kid, after you get done cutting the lawn, I've got another little errand for you. I want you to kill the ex.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'll be at the Cobb Energy Performing Arts Center in Atlanta on September 7th. September 8th, the Riverside in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and September 28th, the Orpheum Theater in Memphis, Tennessee.

Speaker 1 September 29th, the Taft Theater in Cincinnati, Ohio. And November 1st and 2nd at the David Copperfield at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 You know that they couldn't get...

Speaker 1 I was just reading this. They can't get a host for the Oscars.
Like they asked Jimmy Kimmel, and he said no. They asked somebody else.
Oh,

Speaker 1 John Mulvaney, they asked. He said no.

Speaker 1 They went to Alec Baldwin.

Speaker 1 You know who they should ask? I'm joking. You know who they should ask? Because, well, he's done it before.
All right. You know, he said he couldn't do what he was shooting.

Speaker 1 No, wait. Now, before we go on, I have to say, I am the biggest supporter of his bullshit case.

Speaker 1 Don't you think? I mean, come on. You're a perfect one to ask.
Who's been on more sets than you? I mean,

Speaker 1 how can it be his fault? Like, either you think he purposely shot that cinematographer, or you think he didn't purposely shoot her.

Speaker 1 And if he didn't purposely shoot her, then it's all fucking bullshit. Am I wrong? No,

Speaker 1 it's a situation. I think I'm being fair enough to say that

Speaker 1 the armorer is 90, the guy who handles the gun, gun, then armorer is 90%

Speaker 1 responsible for everything that happens when it comes to that gun. But, but, but, but, but, but

Speaker 1 the actor is 10% responsible.

Speaker 1 The actor is 10% responsible. It's not just, it's a gun.
You have to, you are a partner in the responsibility to some degree. So, what do you do to test it?

Speaker 1 They show it to you.

Speaker 1 You go, you, you, if there's steps to go through, you go through them and you do it due, and there's a and it's done with due diligence and you know it's it's for real all right and so like okay here's how an actor can handle it in in a and i'm not talking about what should he what should he have done looked into the barrel or or like shot it one i mean you can't like shoot it because then you're using if he went through the steps that he's supposed to go through then he's changed what are the steps well it's like okay so you see the barrel is clear they show you that the barrel is clear that there's not anything wedged wedged in between the barrel.

Speaker 1 You actually show you the barrel. All right.
You look at you, they show you the barrel. And then,

Speaker 1 and then, you know,

Speaker 1 and then they show you some version of, like, here are our blanks. These are the blanks.
And here's the gun. Boom.
Now you're ready to go. It's ready for two or it's ready for three.

Speaker 1 And, and

Speaker 1 if an actor is,

Speaker 1 if the actor knows he has three hot

Speaker 1 rounds in his gun,

Speaker 1 and he knows that like okay uh uh uh

Speaker 1 I'm gonna do a scene blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and he knows he's got three hot rounds as he's doing the scene and then at this point bam bam bam

Speaker 1 and then he's gonna continue on and say a few more things

Speaker 1 okay if one of the rounds doesn't go off while he does his bam bam bam

Speaker 1 Then he should like cut the scene and say guys one of the rounds didn't go off I think I'm still holding a hot gun here

Speaker 1 Okay, let me ask you this. Why can't we just do it this way? There's nothing in the gun.
Nothing.

Speaker 1 So when the actor pulls the trigger, nothing happens except you hear. Except that's bloodless.
Okay, but can't you put that in and post? Yeah, but that's who that's a that's that okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I guess I can have, I guess I can add digital erections to porno movies, but who wants to fucking watch that?

Speaker 1 We needed to go that far. No, I'm just doing it.
No, it's like, yeah, but I'm just

Speaker 1 no, it is. I mean,

Speaker 1 there's a... No, it's exciting to shoot

Speaker 1 the blangs and to see the real orange fire, not add orange fire.

Speaker 1 So we do.

Speaker 1 We do see orange fire. Yeah, no, but no, and but

Speaker 1 also you got to catch it. Well, it's no, no, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a thing that it's, you got to catch it because the thing about no, no, no, no, no, let me explain it.

Speaker 1 No, no, I'm just saying, I'm not going to argue catching orange fire with Twenty and Tarantino. I get it.
You're the orange.

Speaker 1 No, but there's an interesting thing about it, though, because when you actually fire a gun,

Speaker 1 whether or not you see the orange fire that comes out of the muzzle, it's a 50-50 thing.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 If you see it on the viewfinder, you didn't catch it on the camera.

Speaker 1 If you don't see it in the viewfinder, that means you got it on the camera.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it is actually something you have to catch. It's not just.
All right, what about this?

Speaker 1 Would it be always impossible to shoot from an angle where the person wasn't aiming at anyone? So if the worst happened, you would just be shooting the wall. Well, okay.
Can I just answer that?

Speaker 1 Can I answer that?

Speaker 1 I'm asking. Can I answer what? Can't they

Speaker 1 hear? Can I answer that from an action movie point of view? From an action movie lover point of view? Please do.

Speaker 1 Even before I was a filmmaker, when I was like the guy video archives, I can answer that exactly.

Speaker 1 That's what Hollywood did in the the 80s.

Speaker 1 And then I started watching Hong Kong movies. And then they're like Chaoyan Fat has got the 45 and he's this close to the guy.
Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it was so fucking exciting. It was like movies were liberated.

Speaker 1 It was like, oh,

Speaker 1 yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 And if you're talking about, and I think for as many guns as we've shot off in movies, that we only have two examples of people being shot on the set by a gun mishap, that's a pretty fucking good record.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, that is.

Speaker 1 I mean, I just wouldn't want, especially now, to ever be on the wrong end of a gun, no matter how much I thought it was safe, I would be shitting in my pants.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, no, no. Look,

Speaker 1 that's the kind of fuck-up that happens that undermines an entire industry.

Speaker 1 Yeah, kind of. Well, it certainly makes you nervous.
Yeah, but yeah,

Speaker 1 you don't need nervous people. You want people to go for it.
That's the last thing you want is nervous people.

Speaker 1 You want, you know, you want, no, we're all in this together and we're going to do this cool thing and we're going to capture this exciting thing on film. And it's a thing that we're capturing.

Speaker 1 But it's the thing, to go back to Alec Woland just for one second.

Speaker 1 I mean, and look, I have no personal, really, relationship. He used to do my show a lot and we loved him.
He'd stop doing it, which I have no grudge about.

Speaker 1 I wish he would, because he's such an interesting guy to talk to. But that's...
Was there a reason that you know for a fact? No, he's just, he's got living his best life. He's got a thousand children.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm happy he's a free man, or at least as free as a man with eight children can be.

Speaker 1 And I'm happy it came out well for him. But

Speaker 1 no, I like him a lot. And I saw, I mean, he's interesting.
I mean, has he colored beyond the lines many times, and he always survives. I kind of love that about him.
And he's too charismatic.

Speaker 1 People are like, yeah, he said this and he said that and he said fake and he did this, but he's Alec Baldwin. And I agree with that.
No, I mean, no,

Speaker 1 no, he, no, he's kind of the whole package as a celebrity. When you think

Speaker 1 when you add up the last 30 years. Yes.
And very funny. And, you know, anyway.

Speaker 1 I forgot what I was going to say about him.

Speaker 1 Well, just generally, I'm glad that. I mean, oh, when I saw him crying at the, you know, he went.
Of course, he fucking ended up shooting somebody.

Speaker 1 That's not something most of us human beings have to go through. And it's bad enough, but then to have to put him through this charade.
Oh, it's terrible.

Speaker 1 I mean, like, when I saw him break down, it's like, yes, I mean, you saw like this incredible amount of stress and tension, which any of us would have had under the same circumstances. Like,

Speaker 1 I just, it just, just, it's the kind of thing that just makes you really go yuck about the nature of our society these days. The pettiness that some people have, the sort of bad faith.

Speaker 1 When you, you know what that means? I'm sure

Speaker 1 when you act in bad faith, when you don't really think he's guilty of it, but you know you can get away with charging that. That's called bad faith.
No, I mean, it's so gross.

Speaker 1 No, I actually think it's actually

Speaker 1 well, that's why I drink.

Speaker 1 I don't want to. God damn it.

Speaker 1 I don't want to

Speaker 1 get into a thing where I'm just like

Speaker 1 so cynical about

Speaker 1 the modern world of the modern time. Get into it.
It's like finger painting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But the thing that does make me heart sick at the end of the day all comes down to the bad faith on every single solitary side everything so true

Speaker 1 everything and it's just

Speaker 1 gross

Speaker 1 so gross ignorance is one thing but bad faith is something else so much worse because to have bad faith you have to know something yeah you have to know that what you can make people believe is different than what you know is true okay so let me ask you about because you you know her you had her on your show i was like this i was like man you got to get her on your show and then you finally did I don't know if you guys got along, but

Speaker 1 I have to ask you about one person that I'm really kind of curious about. And

Speaker 1 even the existence of this one person is an interesting thing to me.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Fox is Fox. MSNBC is MSNBC.

Speaker 1 They're a lot closer than we wish they were, but there's still enough daylight between them. Correct.

Speaker 1 But the the closeness is all to the discredit of MSNBC. Correct.
Correct. I would agree with that.
But there's still daylight between them. Correct.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Yet.

Speaker 1 Yet.

Speaker 1 Fox does hire Jessica Tarloff.

Speaker 1 And they put her on their big show.

Speaker 1 And she says what she says against the Fox audience, against the panel, and especially against Janine Pereira. All right.

Speaker 1 Monday through fucking Friday. Yep.
As far as I'm, as far as I can see,

Speaker 1 that is the hardest job on television. All right.
And also,

Speaker 1 they kind of like,

Speaker 1 maybe not Janine, but they all kind of like her. So they're not going to, they don't go ballistic on her.
All right. They keep it respectful.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, and so here's the thing: one, she's kind of amazing. And I think it's one of the hardest jobs that there is out there.
But two,

Speaker 1 how come there isn't that person on MSNBC? Right. Well, I asked the same question.

Speaker 1 And that says a lot about the left because MSNBC is a branch of the left who, you know, again, we probably say Nicole Wallace. No, you turned her.
Fuck it. You turned her.
You turned her a decade ago.

Speaker 1 A decade ago. Exactly.
No, I've said that, and I like Michael Steele. I love him, but no, you turned him.

Speaker 1 He switched sides a long time ago.

Speaker 1 It's very much like the way they break a horse.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Except,

Speaker 1 yeah, you hobbled him for a little bit, but

Speaker 1 now he's taking your daughter to church. I mean, a Mustang is a Mustang, and then at some point he's going around around Central Park shitting in a bucket.
You know, I mean, that's just it.

Speaker 1 And that's okay. Jessica Tarloff is not a retired liberal.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, yes.

Speaker 1 But again, this is a lot of fun. Did you like her when you had her on the show?

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 1 I mean, do I remember everything perhaps as...

Speaker 1 in detail as you think I do? I do not. But, you know, I have a lot of guests and there's a lot of day and there's a lot of plots.
I've got a thousand guests. I'm not sure.
I know.

Speaker 1 But I think I like her a lot.

Speaker 1 But the bigger issue is

Speaker 1 the left and their ability

Speaker 1 or their

Speaker 1 desire to engage with anyone who's not already in the bubble. And they get a big fat D minus on that.

Speaker 1 I couldn't agree more. Right.
I mean, you see, Kamala, I mean, I'm glad she's doing well. I'm glad we have a real fight now for president.

Speaker 1 But doesn't talk to the press, you know, would never go near me. And I'm, you know, when you won't go near the people who are going to vote for you,

Speaker 1 I'm going to vote for you. Do I have to love everything? No, I don't.
It just shows they're a friend. And you're right.
I see it so more much.

Speaker 1 Hold on. I don't, okay, you know what? I don't see her.
Well, there's no reason for her to go on your show before the election, but I can actually see her.

Speaker 1 Yes, there is, because I speak to the exact voter she needs, the person who is in the middle, the person who is not ideologically captured by either side.

Speaker 1 Now, there are some who watch, who are that, and everyone is welcome. I need a bigger audience all the time.
I'm greedy that way. But basically, that's exactly the audience she needs.

Speaker 1 The MSNBC crowd is already voting for her. People who watch me who will decide this election will probably be decided in like four states by

Speaker 1 something like 80,000 votes in each. That's how these elections, how close they are these days, and that's where we're back to.

Speaker 1 We're at least back to normal, which sucked, but it is normal that it's 50-50 going into the election. With Biden, it wouldn't have been.
Let me ask you about this, though. Okay, look, look,

Speaker 1 there's nothing you said that isn't right. All right.

Speaker 1 And there's definitely nothing you said that isn't right in a normal election cycle. I mean,

Speaker 1 it's irrefutably right in a normal election cycle where you have a year to set your case.

Speaker 1 I think there's just all about winning the fucking election, all right?

Speaker 1 And then the easiest path to winning the election, look, you can talk about maybe she should have had more guts about this or that and the other, but we're the fucking president. Right.

Speaker 1 And Trump's not the president, and we're the fucking president, and now it's going to be about this. But this is about fucking winning.

Speaker 1 What most people don't give the Democrats enough enough credit for, all right, but we give the Republicans credit for is like, no, sometimes it's just about fucking winning.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't matter how we look at this moment, it's about fucking winning. Right.

Speaker 1 This is about fucking winning. Yep.

Speaker 1 No, it is. It's a mad fucking dash, and she is running, and she's not stopping to stumble.
And you know what? And there's nothing wrong with stopping this.

Speaker 1 I'm going to vote for her fucking anyway, no matter what she says in a stupid fucking interview. Exactly.
So don't fuck shit up you're right i couldn't be more on that page

Speaker 1 when i say that she doesn't talk to the press i'm not even complaining about it yeah i'm just saying that is the democrats and that has been their flaw and there are some times when you really do and in general they should start doing it more talking to people who are not already on their side they come across as as scared i can't and that is not right but it's but it's i mean i mean but i mean well i mean and frankly though that's uh

Speaker 1 I mean, there's not a world where Pete Buttigieg should be coming across as like this magnificent, wonderful thinker.

Speaker 1 But one, he is very articulate. He's great.
All right. No, but he is.

Speaker 1 He's great because everybody else is so fucking bad. No, I disagree.
No,

Speaker 1 I think in a time of statesman.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No, I think I'm not putting him down. No, I am.
I'm just putting everybody else down. I get it.
I mean, and everybody else deserves to be put down, but I would give him way more credit than that.

Speaker 1 I think in any era, he would have stood out. He is super smart, super articulate, never takes the bait.
That's the Obama playbook. Never takes the bait, which you have to do.

Speaker 1 They're all, excuse me, wait. No, you're all right.

Speaker 1 They're all trolls out there. My thing

Speaker 1 is not about, let me just say this. My thing is not about Pete Buttigieg.
My problem is there's not 20 Pete Buttigester. Well, that will get used to that.
No, but that's not, but

Speaker 1 that's not unrealistic to ask for because there was a time that that was the case. I don't think there was ever 20.

Speaker 1 I think there was Adlai Stevenson and then he ran against Eisenhower, who was a nice person. I actually do think that there was a time where you had statesmen.

Speaker 1 You had 13 to 14 to 15 statesmen who could fucking

Speaker 1 talk their game because it was all about talking the game. Yeah, I think

Speaker 1 I think you're

Speaker 1 romanticizing the past a little, yes.

Speaker 1 I mean, there was Lincoln, whose letter I quoted, we see how eloquent he was, and people used to be because they actually had schooling where they taught kids things.

Speaker 1 That doesn't happen anymore. So people were generally more literary and they could.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 are you going to just throw that away? That's like throwing away talent from talking about an actor.

Speaker 1 I really think the number of people who go into politics who are qualified is so tiny it would scare you. People like Buddha Judge is one of them.
Obama was one of them. Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton.

Speaker 1 These are people. Did I agree with everything? No.
But did they like to do that?

Speaker 1 But when you say talented, talented and just saying that they took the job of politician, of running a government very seriously. It's not just something.

Speaker 1 I mean, The Rock, I love him, but he thinks he can be president because what?

Speaker 1 You have to actually learn things about how how government works. It's a job just like any other.
Maybe it's more complicated. You can't walk into the Oval Office and on day one be like, What's TPP?

Speaker 1 Oh, well, that's a giant treaty we've been negotiating for 10 years. You have to know these things going in.
Well, you know, I mean, look,

Speaker 1 there is this weird aspect that

Speaker 1 politics was

Speaker 1 this sort of

Speaker 1 shell game that like the players who ran it, they knew what's going on and

Speaker 1 they're showing us and we don't really care. So as long as you seem to know what's going on, we'll pretend like we care about what's going on.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 this all works and we all more or less kind of as a public decide, well, they have more information than we do. And

Speaker 1 they ultimately know us best. That's why we're voting for them.
That's why we pay them.

Speaker 1 Then, when George W. Bush becomes president, for the first time,

Speaker 1 I knew somebody dumber than me was president,

Speaker 1 and the whole fucking thing fell apart.

Speaker 1 It's all been

Speaker 1 a house of cards, it's all been a shell game and a mirror illusion. And George W.
Bush made it,

Speaker 1 you could see through the mirror at all the wrong angles. It's also just because you got older.

Speaker 1 You were as dumb as anybody as I was when we were in our 20s and shit. So, I mean, and, you know, presidents were, I remember Obama was the first president who was younger than me.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which is like, wow. I mean, there are certain moments in your life like, oh, well, I guess I'll never be a professional baseball player.
Yeah. I'm 25 now.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, oh, the president is younger than me.

Speaker 1 But, you know,

Speaker 1 I still think

Speaker 1 I really have come to understand.

Speaker 1 That was actually one of the, there's all the things that you can do at a certain age, but there was one, and actually I remember from a Bill Cosby routine, all right, was that you can't run for president until you're 39.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, it's true.
Well, 35. 35, 35.
Yeah. That's, yeah.
Like Taylor Swift can run next year. Yeah.
And I'm sure she will, and I hope she wins.

Speaker 1 But, you know, something you said really reminded me of Three Days of the Condor.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I remember that movie, yeah. I can't remember what it was.
What? Oh, what I said? You can't remember? Or you can't remember what was going on?

Speaker 1 It was about like, well, what was Three Days of a Condor? Well, it's about the idea that

Speaker 1 I don't think that's almost a ridiculous idea. I love the idea that the government would do this, but I don't think it does.

Speaker 1 Oh. Okay, so the government has a division.
No, I got to say this. That's what it is.

Speaker 1 The government has a division. I don't believe that this exists.
The government has this division of like brainiacs

Speaker 1 that just read everything ever printed, every newspaper in every small town ever printed.

Speaker 1 to just know what's out there. Now they have a computer to it, to just know what's out there in case there's something weird that like spikes or does something.

Speaker 1 Read every piece of pop culture, read every comic strip, read everything to just see if there's some weird leaning of something.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 Robert Redford is part of this collective.

Speaker 1 And then some sort of conspiracy happens inside of the CIA where they realize that they may have read something and they can put it all together.

Speaker 1 So they send a hit team to come out and wipe all those people out. And they do, except for him.
Except for Redford.

Speaker 1 You know, and so he's.

Speaker 1 They just read for a living. Yeah, yeah, they just read.
Yeah. When he gets with Vay Dunaway and finally tells her what he does for a living, it's like, we just read.

Speaker 1 I mean, they just read spy novels to get ideas about what the Soviets might be thinking. Now, I actually had a situation like that, oddly enough,

Speaker 1 in my work.

Speaker 1 I never put myself up for sale as a dialogue writer, you know, to do dialogue punch-ups for Hollywood movies. They asked you? Of course they did.
My dialogue's the shit. All right.
You know,

Speaker 1 it is. No, I

Speaker 1 can make any movie better by giving it a dialogue polish. That's just a deal.
I can make it better.

Speaker 1 All right. I can't make it good, but I can make it better.
Could you start on Flowers of the Early Moon?

Speaker 1 I mean, the whatever movie.

Speaker 1 Something more. I don't know.
But the thing is, though,

Speaker 1 I didn't want to like make money that way.

Speaker 1 And I also looked at it as like, no, I'm a director. I'm making movies.
That's my magic well water. I don't want to give it to the Hollywood fucks out there for a,

Speaker 1 there's not a price I can put on it. This is for my movies.
Yeah. You know,

Speaker 1 or was I going well? No, I don't know, but I would file that under duh.

Speaker 1 But yeah, no, it's like, that's my shit. Yeah, you don't do punch-up work.
Right. And I don't open bowling alleys.

Speaker 1 Right. We're past that.
We're old. Yeah.
But

Speaker 1 there, you know, that would have been crazy lucrative if I wanted to, but I bet, no, I'll make the money myself. Yeah, and you did.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but hold on for a second. It's the only time I'm saying cut.
I want to go where I was going with my thought, and I can't think of it.

Speaker 1 I think I want to go back to three days at the Condor. It wasn't about it.
It had something to do with that.

Speaker 1 But I remember you said something about like,

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 the reason why you're so right about some of these movies being so great and emulating them is like the end of that movie. Okay, yes, they're a CIA team that reads about spies and they get wiped out.

Speaker 1 And Robert Redford, at the end of the movie,

Speaker 1 Robertson, what's his? Cliff Robertson. What is it? Cliff Robertson.
Cliff Robertson, who's the CIA guy. And Robert,

Speaker 1 and we think that Redford is the hero, and I guess he still kind of is because he's given the story about

Speaker 1 how bad the CIA is to the New York Times. And they're at the New York Times building, and the truck comes out.
I gave it to them. And Cliff Robertson says, oh, my God,

Speaker 1 you have no idea how much damage you've done. Yeah, right.
You have no, you know what? When people are

Speaker 1 freezing in their homes and they want us to get the oil, they're not going to want us to ask, how did you get it? They're just going to want us to get it. And it's like, that is adult entertainment.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. That is sophistication.
Okay, but not only is, okay, yes. Because it's true and it's entertaining at the same time.
There is not, okay, there is not a yeah, but. There's not a yeah, but.

Speaker 1 There's a yeah and

Speaker 1 and the yeah and

Speaker 1 in that is

Speaker 1 Again,

Speaker 1 you can't take entertainment out of the era it was made and for the audience it was made for. Three days of the condor was not made for us sitting here right now, correct, watching it.

Speaker 1 Oh, what's that movie? Because they hear us talking about it. Maybe somebody watches it now.
It's not made for them. It was made for the audience in the 70s when it came out.

Speaker 1 But I bet you people today would still like it. That's not the point.
That's so fucking cool. That's not my point.
My point is, it was made for the audience in the 70s when it came out. And

Speaker 1 just by the very nature of it, a cynicism about the government is baked in the pie.

Speaker 1 This is about as commercial a movie as you can possibly make. Robert Redford, Faye Dunwitt.

Speaker 1 Fay Dunwood, the biggest stars, the most glamorous stars in a really exciting action movie that seems to talk about now.

Speaker 1 Sexy. And sexy.
And it's talking about now. But a cynicism against the government is baked into the audience pie.

Speaker 1 But sexy.

Speaker 1 I mean, if people don't remember or haven't seen it. But no, but the thing is, that movie could not exist in that commercial a way in 1966.

Speaker 1 No, of course not. But look.

Speaker 1 But after 73, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 It was a cynical time. So any cynicism about history or the government is expected.

Speaker 1 But here's where the modern filmmakers have mostly, not all of course, but fallen down. The ability to weave

Speaker 1 the sexy, entertaining part into a movie that means something. Yeah, I agree.
You know, like, I would like this movie anyway, but I really love it because it's a love story.

Speaker 1 It's very similar to Born Identity, where, and many other movies, I'm sure, where the guy who's in great trouble meets some chick who's kind of hot.

Speaker 1 It's going to be very hot that they're getting out of this situation together. What could be right? No, you don't want to fuck anybody more than that.

Speaker 1 And they do, and she does, and she's the girl who's just somehow in the way, and then she becomes a compatriot with him.

Speaker 1 No, that's a very Pauline Kalish

Speaker 1 review, all right, of

Speaker 1 the Bourne genre,

Speaker 1 the Bourne movies as a genre and as a placeholder for every other spike movie you've seen since. Well, Three Days at the Condo came well before the Bourne movies.

Speaker 1 No, but I'm talking about from what you're talking about. Well, they weren't the first to do it either.
It's like guy in trouble on the run meets Hyla

Speaker 1 who wants to help. I mean, it's no, no, there's 90 versions of that that deal with World War II espionage.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 they drop the flyer in France and the French girl helps them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, excuse me if my dick is in my hand for every one of them. I mean,

Speaker 1 I like a movie that, I don't know, where you sort of like, you know, can sort of put yourself in the place of the guy who's getting the hot chick in the movie. Does that make me a bad person?

Speaker 1 Of course not. I mean, just human.
I actually think, like, it is,

Speaker 1 it's one of the differences

Speaker 1 between movies and theater.

Speaker 1 I mean, because the thing about it is, yeah, handsome people and pretty women in theater obviously did well, as you would imagine they would, but actually, acting was more important.

Speaker 1 You know, so the idea is like

Speaker 1 some of the greatest actors of the theater times before cinema, the people went to the theater.

Speaker 1 You know, some of them weren't the greatest-looking people in the world, but they were the fucking greatest actors. They filled the fucking room.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, that's still true of Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But the point being is, you're not in a close-up, it's about their ability to fill the room,

Speaker 1 And we had those people on film too: George C. Scott, Edward G.
Robinson. We had those people.
Yeah, Bogart. Kind of faced like three miles of bad roads.

Speaker 1 That's a Robert Blake quote. That's a Robert Blake quote.
It is. That literally is a Robert Blake quote about Bogart.
My father used to say it. He heard it from Blake.

Speaker 1 I'm learning so much about my own family didn't say it.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 So back to the agitated apes they're they're they're they're the monolith comes down yeah okay nonetheless and then the question becomes then the question becomes and it's a question it's not an answer it's a question

Speaker 1 is is that technology or is that spirituality well it's some well what it what i don't know but what it definitely is is something from not earth oh absolutely okay because there's nothing like again

Speaker 1 but is it a spiritual thing is it a technological thing i think it's a technological thing because the next scene

Speaker 1 theoretically I agree with that, but it's a slab. Okay, it's a slab, but they didn't have slabs back in the ape days.
They just had like rocks and wood. That's it.
This is like smooth and shape.

Speaker 1 But I would think if I was going to try to sell

Speaker 1 if I was going to try to sell technology, I might have a few working parts. But okay, they also find the monolith, remember, like a few scenes later when they go to the moon.

Speaker 1 They go to the moon and the monolith is. Okay, well, now you're trying to tie it together like it's a movie that has a story and it does.
It kind of does.

Speaker 1 Well no, it has a

Speaker 1 okay. Well let's go through

Speaker 1 a theme and it has no no no no let's go through it. Maybe you don't remember.
So first we have agitated apes. Yeah.
The monolith comes down. They seem to get different after the monolith.

Speaker 1 First of all, they certainly learn how to use tools because you see the guy, the ape, hammering with the bone, big, he's got a big femur in his hand and he's like, okay, so we see he's learned how to like do things with technology, and he throws the bone up in the air, it becomes the spacecraft.

Speaker 1 Iconic, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 Then there's like a scene where the guys, the doctor dude, is talking to people, and it's like, oh, there's some trouble on,

Speaker 1 and it's very vague. And then they go to the moon, and there's the monolith again.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, and the monolith emits a piercing sound, and they go like this with their space helmets on, which I don't think would do anything if he had a space helmet on.

Speaker 1 But, and then I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1 And, you know, but it's actually curious while you're describing it, is

Speaker 1 the apes respond to the sound, but they don't respond to the sound that way. It's not like, oh,

Speaker 1 they can't handle it. The apes don't hear sound.

Speaker 1 No, when it goes,

Speaker 1 when they touch it and it goes,

Speaker 1 they respond to the wall. Yes, yes, you're right.
Yes.

Speaker 1 But it's not, it's a different sound. It's like, it's not the, they're not going out.
They're not going like this, right?

Speaker 1 So I don't know why the monolith was doing that on the moon. I don't know why the monolith at all.
And then we cut to they're on the

Speaker 1 thing going to Jupiter. It's like Jupiter mission 18 months later.
And that's where we have the famous

Speaker 1 Hal, I can't do that. One of the astronauts goes out to do a spacewalk to fix something.
There's something wrong. We've seen this in other movies.

Speaker 1 And Hal will not let him back in, and he dies out there in outer space. I think

Speaker 1 Hal is a little bitch.

Speaker 1 It's one of the questions of cinema,

Speaker 1 it's one of the reasons that you can say that there's a brilliance to,

Speaker 1 if not Arthur C. Clarke's novel, but to Stanley Kubrick's movie.

Speaker 1 He seems to ignore everything about drama

Speaker 1 except just

Speaker 1 enough

Speaker 1 rope with knots in it. You're so right.
To connect you to the next knot, to the next knot, to the next knot. You're right.

Speaker 1 And a case can be made that when the movie loses it, when it gets more metaphysical at the end is when he stops supplying knots that are narrative. Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 And the knots don't need to connect to each other. They just need to get you forward.
And they do. And they do.
And they do. Like it's, yeah.
I mean, like this

Speaker 1 very interesting scene where he's watching the news from home. They say there's a seven-minute delay, but thanks to editing, we...

Speaker 1 And he's, and they're interviewing Hal. It's like our spaceship here going to Jupiter.

Speaker 1 And what year must this be? I mean, Jupiter is a really long trip. And what do you do when you get there?

Speaker 1 Not like you can land on it. Anyway,

Speaker 1 we're talking to our astronauts who are going to Jupiter, and two of them are in suspended animation. They apparently had that back then.

Speaker 1 And two of them are around. Oh, I had that from Planet of the Apes.
I'm good. I understood that.

Speaker 1 And then we're going to also talk to Hal. Hal is the HAL 9000 computer.
And

Speaker 1 by the way,

Speaker 1 this show is very much like Entertainment Tonight, but for like

Speaker 1 no, it's a nightly news. This is a big news.
No, but it's done as if it's Entertainment Tonight. It has and he's listening to it like he's listening to his report on Entertainment Tonight.

Speaker 1 He's eating his like space food, which is like compartmentalized, but he's watching it on the news.

Speaker 1 I thought it was very BBC, and they're trying to do it straight. I thought it was very much like you've done Angie, and you're watching the Entertainment Tonight special on Angie, and

Speaker 1 here comes your guy. Yeah, well, that's what you think because you've probably smoked too much much pot.
Anyway, I thought it was more like the BBC.

Speaker 1 And anyway, he is interviewing, and then the guy interviews Hal.

Speaker 1 And Hal, again, it's like,

Speaker 1 I don't remember this from the first time I watched it, but when I saw it recently, I was like, wow, how is to be this prescient in 1968 about what we are absolutely talking about today,

Speaker 1 AI in 2024? Like, how, that's exactly what we're talking about now. Are the computers taking over, and when they do, will they be this bitchy?

Speaker 1 Okay, because the computer is such a bitch and a little like everything is like at the end, like, how? I mean, like, Dave, I'm sorry, I can do better. I made some poor decisions.

Speaker 1 It's like, it's like a relationship fight they're having with a fucking computer. Here's the thing that I, oh, that I think you kind of

Speaker 1 nailed without nailing it.

Speaker 1 My specialty.

Speaker 1 That was a debunking passive-aggressive compliment. I apologize.
I really don't agree with shit like that, but that kind of was that. I apologize.
Oh, please.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 1 I have to say,

Speaker 1 I really enjoy watching the show.

Speaker 1 It's actually interesting.

Speaker 1 My favorite ones

Speaker 1 are the ones that I wish I was on the show. I wish I was the third person on the episode.
Couldn't do it. And then,

Speaker 1 but it's actually interesting. It's all about

Speaker 1 comedians and an actor. So the three that I wish I were in the room at the time was the Martin Short episode,

Speaker 1 the Chevy Chase episode, and the Richard Dreyfus episode. Here.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Cloak random episodes.
I mean, Richard Dreyfus will never live that down.

Speaker 1 I mean, Richard Douglas was actually

Speaker 1 the most memorable of your shows. All right.

Speaker 1 You know, remember what they said about the Kennedy-Nixon debates? That if you saw it on TV, you thought that Kennedy won. And if you heard it on radio, you thought that Nixon won.

Speaker 1 It's a little like that.

Speaker 1 People who didn't see it, they didn't think he was fucked up at all and people who watched it i mean he was it was well in this position you know so it was i no no i watched it it's the craziest thing in the world that he's like sinking in the chair to the degree that he is he had it but okay but here's the deal but i don't know any of that I'm not like

Speaker 1 I'm not reading I'm not reading blogs about that episode. I watch it.
Right.

Speaker 1 And I think, well, maybe that's the way he sits in chairs.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 maybe if you're going to talk to Richard Dreyfus for 90 minutes, then that's going to be the way he sits in a chair.

Speaker 1 That's actually not unbelievable that there's certain old dudes that, when they get together with their boys, that they're like in the chair that way at the end of the fucking talk. Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 No, you're not wrong at all. And I did not want to break.
I'm turning so Jewish. Am I wrong? I'm saying, am I wrong?

Speaker 1 You're George Siegel.

Speaker 1 I'm turning into

Speaker 1 Israel for a while. You're turning into George Siegel.
George Siegel had a nice career. He had a magnificent career.
From

Speaker 1 Virginia Wolfe. Yeah.
I mean, no, I mean, it was like a young Steve Stunning guy. All right.
And then he became the guy.

Speaker 1 No, in the 60s he was. In the 60s, he was.
But in the 70s.

Speaker 1 He was in Jewish Steve Stunning. Okay, that's different.
No, but if you look at his movies in the 60s, it's different. He's pretty Steve Stunning.

Speaker 1 Oh, the Quiller Memorandum. All right.
No, that's a good one. He's like

Speaker 1 a James Bond kind of guy in that.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Okay, but I'm remembering, of course. Well, actually, but no, he's still in the Steve Stunning period during the time he's doing

Speaker 1 Was Afraid of Virginia Wolf. okay that was like 1966 i mean

Speaker 1 if he's

Speaker 1 i'm talking about the 60s if he's so stunning how does he why does he have to hire a prostitute in the owl and the pussycat

Speaker 1 i put it to you sir okay

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 he realized

Speaker 1 that as handsome as he was

Speaker 1 to go in this 60s George Maharis kind of George Maharaj. Yeah, well, I'm using

Speaker 1 his examples, all right? You know, to go in, no, to go in that kind of

Speaker 1 handsome cut-out role.

Speaker 1 One, it's not who he is. That's who Hollywood was asking him to be.
And then he got in touch

Speaker 1 with the Jewish prankster inside of himself. And 70s cinema allowed him to do that.
And so then,

Speaker 1 as opposed to not playing the Jewish guy, he's playing the Jewish guy.

Speaker 1 And that's Elliot Gould's job. Yes, exactly.
That's his main competition. Oh, really? Elliot Gould is showing him the way.
There is no George Sequel without Elliot Gould's guidance. Wow.

Speaker 1 That's a very heavy statement in nowhere. No.

Speaker 1 Well, in a world that...

Speaker 1 In a world, what are we doing?

Speaker 1 In my world, it's actually a really cool statement because I actually just put it together right now when I said it.

Speaker 1 Somebody did a funny parody once of the trailers, and every one of them started with, in a world.

Speaker 1 That was for a while. That was De Riguer when you had the guy with that perfect voice over voice say,

Speaker 1 in a world where nothing seems to make sense, you know. Well, you know, look, there is a case.

Speaker 1 There is a case that as much as I like like film criticism to such a degree that I'm writing it now. And by the way, just to answer a question you didn't ask, but you alluded to.

Speaker 1 Again, my specialty.

Speaker 1 About central. Bill, here are your allusions for today.

Speaker 1 Oh, the Toopy Sales here. You got the laugh.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got the

Speaker 1 crew laughing. You got your joke.
The band laugh.

Speaker 1 I don't know who those people are. And I'm throwing them off the property.
You know, I did my first HBO special in 1989. It was called the Young Comedian.
They had like young comedian specials.

Speaker 1 Half hour. Half hour.
You remember that. Okay.
Very well. So, and you were asked to do a sketch at the beginning.

Speaker 1 So my sketch, like a two, three-minute thing to introduce the special. So it wasn't just stand-up.
And the one I did was a parody of My Fair Lady.

Speaker 1 Though in My Fair Lady, as we all know, it's a play on Pygmalion.

Speaker 1 In Pygmalion, he turns a statue into a woman, his ideal woman. In My Fair Lady, he makes a bet with Pickering, his friend Pickering, whether he can take the biggest

Speaker 1 gutter snipe. A gutter snipe.
I could take a gutter snipe and turn her into a lady and pass her off as a lady at the ball. And so he does that.

Speaker 1 And he's just such a huge prick in this movie, movie, Rex Harrison. It's amazing the way they did not pull a punch in those days.

Speaker 1 And he, and so I, my parody of that was, I played Henry Higgins, who could take the most generic derivative comedian and turn him into a fabulous monologist. And so I took this.

Speaker 1 So that was the bit where I then found this like comic who's doing, hey, Jack Nicholson, you know,

Speaker 1 like the most

Speaker 1 an airline food, food, am I right?

Speaker 1 And I'm turning it so that way I thought that for

Speaker 1 that, from age 30, I thought that was a pretty sophisticated way to go with my little. Well, where did it go with it?

Speaker 1 Well, then we did. I remember they shot the split screen where I was both Henry Higgins and I was the bad comic coming in.
I was the Eliza who was going to transform.

Speaker 1 I can turn him into a fine monologist.

Speaker 1 That's actually

Speaker 1 pretty good cultural satire of its time it really is especially since no one knew my fair lady or what i was talking about even in 1989 no they actually did they they did a little bit there was a context to it there actually was uh uh

Speaker 1 i'm realizing now and this was a point i was going to say earlier

Speaker 1 there is an aspect that

Speaker 1 As much as I like film criticism, that parody

Speaker 1 is the greatest criticism.

Speaker 1 Well, yes, that's interesting, of course. All right.
Well,

Speaker 1 it's the one that wields the most scalpel. The most scalpel, the most scalpel edge, all right, to

Speaker 1 criticism of art is parody itself. But when it's like, when it's, again, when it's like

Speaker 1 sushi, like finely cut. Well, when was the last time you saw the great dictator?

Speaker 1 I actually have seen him recently. You have? Yeah.
Okay. I have not, but I did see, I was watching the Don.
I'm a big Chaplin fan. I know you are.
I know you are. No.

Speaker 1 That's not a

Speaker 1 given. No, I

Speaker 1 went for years putting down Chaplin because I was so worshipped at the altar of Buster Keaton. And now I've appreciated

Speaker 1 at an older age, I've appreciated what Chaplin. Oh, amazing.
But, you know, in 1940, he made the great dictator, which, of course, was a Bermanoclei, a very thinly one on Adolf Hitler. Yes.

Speaker 1 And the upshot of that, as we remember it. Czech, okay,

Speaker 1 as Mussolini and the very funny Mussolini. The famous scene where he's in the Nazi uniform and he's kicking the globe, which is like a beach ball.
Just he's going to take over the world.

Speaker 1 And this was 1940, of course,

Speaker 1 after the war had started, but before we got into it.

Speaker 1 And as everyone remembers, the upshot of the whole thing, of his satire, of making fun of Hitler mercilessly, was that Hitler was stopped and World War II never happened.

Speaker 1 Oh, wait, that's not what happened. What happened is art can do nothing.

Speaker 1 I have no patience with the people, especially musicians. They're such narcissists.
Music can change the world. No, it can't.
Nothing in art changes the world.

Speaker 1 What it can do is make the shitty world we live in more tolerable because it entertains us or or amuses us or comments on us. Yes, they can change social mores.

Speaker 1 I mean, television changed gay marriage in this country. It made it, and the people saw it on TV and they were okay with it.
And race issues, it can move the needle, but it doesn't solve anything.

Speaker 1 And certainly, but that movie is just funny.

Speaker 1 The great dictator? I mean, it's just, it's just.

Speaker 1 I'm always amazed how it's like as much of it's a parody. He does go for the laugh.
No, he is chaplain. Of course he goes for the laugh.
I mean,

Speaker 1 at the end of the day,

Speaker 1 there is probably no actor who ever performed before a camera that felt more entitled than Charlie Chaplin. I mean, ever, ever.

Speaker 1 Marlon Brando at his most Brando-esque was never as entitled as Charlie Chow.

Speaker 1 Why are you like saying entitled? So, what will happen? Well, because it's like whatever this film captures is just

Speaker 1 the glory of what I'm doing. I see.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Right. I am capturing history by me doing anything.

Speaker 1 This is all history.

Speaker 1 Just turn the camera on.

Speaker 1 Wow. Now, talk about it.
Turn the camera on.

Speaker 1 Talk about a scathing review.

Speaker 1 No, but it's all history because I'm Charlie Chaplin and I can do no wrong. But that's certainly.
But you're capturing it.

Speaker 1 But certainly is great movies. No, no, no, no.
I'm not making.

Speaker 1 I'm making fun of the megalomania, but thank God for the megalomania because he's Charlie Chaplin. You could say the same about Jerry Lewis.
Yeah. No, what you're saying.

Speaker 1 Thank God for the megalomania because without that, there would be no buddy love.

Speaker 1 You can absolutely say that in that instance, but it's a bad comparison with Charlie Chaplin because Charlie Chaplin is like,

Speaker 1 there is no celebrity in the history of celebrity, in the history of our world, that was ever as famous as Charlie Chaplin. That's true.

Speaker 1 No, no, but that's an important aspect of it. No.
Because it was silent and he translated everywhere. And the little tramp translated that the persona translated everywhere.
And his comedy. No.

Speaker 1 And his humanity. Translated everywhere.
But to your original point about how just big he was.

Speaker 1 When he went back to London after he became a sensation in America, the headline in the London Times that day was just chaplain. Yeah.
Like he was in town and that was like more important.

Speaker 1 But you know, it's like, I don't think

Speaker 1 until Elvis, there was a celebrity at the level of Charlie Chaplin. Frank Sinatra.
There was. I don't, I think, I

Speaker 1 think

Speaker 1 if the deal is Chaplin to Elvis, I think Sinatra is here. I think Sinatra is hanging below.
Maybe, but I mean, there are a few people.

Speaker 1 When you're talking about an entire career, that's another thing. There's, look, there's someone who is performing today, possibly right now, who is on that level.

Speaker 1 You may not like it or not, but Taylor Swift. As far as just popularity, I mean, there's Michael Jackson, there's the Beatles, there's Elvis.
No, but there's not some popularity right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. But I'm just saying some people like get to this level that's sort of preter show business.
It's above where show business is. It's part of the culture.
No, but that's exciting.

Speaker 1 That's actually exciting. I'm talking about the landing.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying that there is one around today. I mean,

Speaker 1 I don't, do I get why that is? No, I don't. I don't begrudge her.
I just don't get why she's reaching people on this level. But, you know, I'm not a teenage girl.

Speaker 1 I mean, I didn't just break up with, you know, what do you call them? What's your name for the studdly guy in the movies?

Speaker 1 Harry Stunning. Steve Stunning.
I'd never heard that. Steve Stunning.

Speaker 1 Is that something people say or do you just say that? I think I just say that.

Speaker 1 I'm going to stop here in a second. I want to take a pee, okay? Oh, yeah, yeah.
I thought you just did. No, I didn't.
Just not do.

Speaker 1 Okay. We can keep going, whatever, but I'm only.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm good for going after dinner.
Yeah, let's just go do that.

Speaker 1 Let me take a pee though. Yeah, yeah.
You pee. But we can't do that.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. We've done enough.

Speaker 1 Okay, here's the deal.

Speaker 1 If they will stay,

Speaker 1 it wouldn't be the worst show in the world if we did 20 more minutes. Great.
Then come.

Speaker 1 I'm serious. No, no, let's do it.
Cool.

Speaker 1 I literally, I couldn't stop my pee. I was like, I started, I was like, this is the best pee I've had in like.

Speaker 1 You're lucky.