Malcolm McDowell | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Speaker 1 My father ran a pub. What, and you lived upstairs from the pub? Yes, and I've never liked pubs ever since.

Speaker 1 He's the lead singer of ACDC. One of the funniest men I've ever met.
Let's get him over here.

Speaker 1 Welcome. Hey!

Speaker 1 Are you there? I'm here.

Speaker 1 Don't get up.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, I actually won't. After all the entertainment you've given me, you deserve to stay seated.

Speaker 1 Let me serve you. How are you? It's a devoted fan.
Nice to see you. I wrote that in my book.
I'm not here to plug my book, although I guess it's in my hand. I should.

Speaker 1 It's been

Speaker 1 on the best on the list for seven weeks. Yeah.
Got to be number one.

Speaker 1 I'm giving it to you.

Speaker 1 Yes. Oh, it's my copy.

Speaker 1 Christ, you're handsome. We'll finish your thought.
You know.

Speaker 1 Well, Well, you didn't inscribe it, but hey. You look good for your...

Speaker 1 This is it. What are you?

Speaker 1 Early 50s now, Malcolm?

Speaker 1 Yeah, early 50s, sure. Wouldn't that be nice? I'm 81.
81? You're the same age as Biden?

Speaker 1 Yeah. You seem very un-Biden-esque.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 I'm just working my ass up.

Speaker 1 Really? I don't think I've ever been offered so much stuff as I am right now. Now, I put it down to the fact that maybe

Speaker 1 my competition, I'm outgrowing them and outliving them.

Speaker 1 Well, so you're iconic. You know, when you've been iconic, you know, for a while.
Since

Speaker 1 1970, supposedly, when I did Clockwork Orange. Right.
I think that was 72, but I tell you.

Speaker 1 We made it in 70. Really? It opened in 71.
Really? I believe. I thought it was 72, but anyway, long time ago.
Okay, well, you may be right.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 I don't Yeah, maybe off, but I never think about in terms of dates, you know.

Speaker 1 Well, you don't become iconic right away, but the character does. But you yourself now are.
But again, that's good because when you're 81, you have to be iconic. And then you can work.

Speaker 1 But you go through phases, you know. Absolutely.
And that's the phase.

Speaker 1 And it's great that you were able to work enough along the way and do enough great work and was respected enough that you then become iconic because,

Speaker 1 you know, when they remake Titanic and it's a guy who throws the necklace off the edge of the bridge, they're going to need some 95-year-old to fucking take the bite the bullet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Instead of Gloria Stewart? Yeah, I'm just saying everything

Speaker 1 has to be redone with different identities. So let's do Titanic.
And it's the chick who saves the guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Let's have that happen.

Speaker 1 All right. Why can't that happen? What, like J-Lo or something? Yes.
Why can't it be the woman who disappears under the icy waters of the Atlantic while the guy is up on the board? Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So what's your

Speaker 1 drug of choice? No. What's your favorite movie of the last couple of years? That's a great question.
Let's go through them because I forget movies. So do I.
So do I.

Speaker 1 No, I like see them, but it's like I don't like, I know I've enjoyed some.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you one I enjoyed a lot I thought was great was Marriage Story. Oh, I didn't see it.

Speaker 1 So that ends that conversation. Do you know which one I'm talking about? No.

Speaker 1 Oh, wait a minute.

Speaker 1 It was with Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson. Oh, okay.
It really should be called Divorce Story. But this is up for Oscar next time, right? No, it was like two years ago.
Jesus, well,

Speaker 1 for some reason, I didn't see it. I don't know why, because I'm supposed supposed to see it.
It was Netflix, I think.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. I think it was,

Speaker 1 I may get this name wrong. Noah Birnbach.
I think he's married to

Speaker 1 Greta Gerwig, who did Barbie. Oh, yeah.
I think it was him, but I could be wrong. And I'm giving credit to somebody who just completely had nothing to do with this movie.

Speaker 1 But he's a good filmmaker, and this was a good film.

Speaker 1 I mean, it was just, there is a scene in there that is as harrowing and I think as true to life, although I'd never been married and divorced, as I can imagine, where, you know, it just starts out, they're married and they're happy, and then, you know, it unravels, and it's just, it's the process of a divorce and how at the beginning, the couple always wants to do it civilly, but then the lawyers get involved.

Speaker 1 And it's sounds good. It's very good.
Yeah. And, you know,

Speaker 1 it destroys in a way both their lives. He has to move out to California.
He has a little apartment. He wanted to be in New York.
He was a director.

Speaker 1 And she comes over, and it's like a year after their and it's a true story, right? Based on a true story. It's based on a million true stories, is my guess.
But I'm the small apartment in California.

Speaker 1 I bet you that's thousands. That kind of rings true.
With lots of people, that they are

Speaker 1 going to want. Well, divorce economically can downsize you in a big way.

Speaker 1 At least half.

Speaker 1 Right. Why did that happen to you? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I think, honestly, my divorce was as civilized as you could possibly get it.

Speaker 1 And because there were children involved and, you know,

Speaker 1 you don't go into tirades when...

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 You know, you try to keep all that. Is it too personal to ask if no,

Speaker 1 you know, it was with Mary Steenberg.

Speaker 1 And we are great friends. Did I know that, that you were married to Mary Steenberg?

Speaker 1 I probably did at some point. But you forgot.

Speaker 1 Because you are getting old. I may have misfiled it, Malcolm.

Speaker 1 Or maybe just disc full, disc full. Hey, I do not have to.
And why would you even care about something like that? Right. It's no big deal.
Well, I've always thought it's very odd

Speaker 1 what you remember. It seems to be completely arbitrary that certain...

Speaker 1 such inconsequential moments from so many years ago stick out in your mind and and you try to think was there something significance into that to that and it's like no i just for some reason remembered that and then whole swaths of time will go by with and important things like ask me like if i can remember losing my virginity i remember where i was who i was with all the details are gone oh you you you don't remember you know well i know my dick was out you know i mean

Speaker 1 i've got the broad strokes yeah and i know it was bad so you've never been married, but you've had significant relationships. Very significant.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I get the drill. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 And anyway, so what happens is the scene I'm talking about, and it's worth the price of admission to this. It's about a 10-minute scene.
But the way it builds so

Speaker 1 perfectly artfully. It's about a year after they're apart.
So they're, you know, they're making it work. They've got a co-parent.
They've got a kid.

Speaker 1 So she comes over and it's like, hey, how you doing? It's that level, you know. But you can tell underneath there's so much suppressed cause.

Speaker 1 And the way that comes out, because at the first it's just like, hey, could you take the kids next weekend? I've got a thing.

Speaker 1 And oh, no, I would, but I can't because, you know, my new boyfriend and I are doing this. Oh, but we said we would try.

Speaker 1 So it starts civilly and it just builds to, I want to fucking, you know, this rage of it just had to come out at some point.

Speaker 1 And the way it builds to that is, and the performances, I have to say, that stuck in my mind. That was like, that was cinema and drama and artistic acting at its very best, I thought.

Speaker 1 Well, I think

Speaker 1 in terms of brilliance all-round, I don't think I ever saw a better film. Certainly not an American film, better than Fargo.
That is by far. Fargo.

Speaker 1 For me, the greatest American film made 30 years ago now. Oh, like from the 90s, yeah.
The original with Francis McDorman. Yeah.
I mean, I liked it. Why was it that great?

Speaker 1 I just thought it was the style of the film, the horrendous things going on, a bit like Tarantino before Tarantino was doing it.

Speaker 1 You know, the...

Speaker 1 The Cohen brothers are brilliant. Oh, they are.
They've done so many.

Speaker 1 Miller's Crossing, isn't it? Yeah, geniuses. Oh, so many.
Yeah. And also can...

Speaker 1 Was Albert Finney in that one?

Speaker 1 Which,

Speaker 1 absolutely. Yeah.
Albert Finney and

Speaker 1 my favorite actor gabriel burns albert finney i saw him on screen in liverpool at the odeon lime street 19 uh

Speaker 1 50 50

Speaker 1 or something 58 somewhere like that you are old and i watched this no maybe it was later it's got to be 60s I watched it anyway, it was a movie called Saturday Night and Sunday Morning, directed by Carol Rice,

Speaker 1 great director.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I saw this, I guess I was 17 or something like that. And I just said, I'm going to do that.
Really? That's when you got the boat. That's when I knew I was going to do that.

Speaker 1 So Albert Finney is somebody you owe a great debt to. Yes.
And weirdly enough, who produced my first movie, which was called If,

Speaker 1 directed by the great Lindsey Anderson? Hitler.

Speaker 1 How did you know? Well, you wanted me to guess. It's like Albert Finney.
Oh, Albert Finney. Damn.
It was Memorial Enterprises. I always guess Hitler for everything.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because one of these times, it's going to, you know, you'll get it right.

Speaker 1 And who invented the Volkswagen? Yeah. Hitler.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. So.
Yeah. So.

Speaker 1 What about Shoot the Moon? It was a beautiful film. That's Albert Finney.
Do you know who wrote that? Who wrote that? Bo Goldman. Hitler.

Speaker 1 Gaubles.

Speaker 1 Bo Goldman. Who's that? Bo Goldman.

Speaker 1 One of the greats. Never heard of him.
Come on. Bo Goldman? Bo Goldman wrote.
I don't remember that name. He won two Academy Awards for Best Script.
For what?

Speaker 1 Cuckoo's Nest. Cuckoo's Nest.
Yes. Just rewatched it.
And Sent of a Woman.

Speaker 1 Sent of a Woman won best screenplay? Yes.

Speaker 1 Sorry, no, it didn't.

Speaker 1 He didn't win for that.

Speaker 1 He won for Melvin and Howard.

Speaker 1 But he also wrote Center of a Woman.

Speaker 1 I remember the name Melbourne and Howard. Well, look, it was about, you know, you know what it was about.
Gay men.

Speaker 1 Melvin and Howard. Gosh, you have sometimes, Bill.
What? No, I mean, what's it about? It was about

Speaker 1 Howard Hughes being picked up.

Speaker 1 Okay, I didn't see it at all. In the desert, yes, I got it.
And Melbourne was played by.

Speaker 1 Oh, I don't remember, but I can see him Paul Lamat

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 so and my ex Mary won an Academy Award for best supporting actress in that movie yeah what did she play she played his girlfriend which one who's a stripper Howard Hughes's girlfriend no Melvin Melvin because I was saying Howard Hughes's girlfriend was like yeah well he had the pick

Speaker 1 well but some of them were I mean I love the when they made the movie the Scorsese movie about him oh yeah Kate Beckinsale Beckinsale played, was it Ava Gardner?

Speaker 1 But she was, first of all, she was perfect for it. She was sexy, gorgeous, of course, and also like she was.
Charismatic. Charismatic.
But also, she had the right,

Speaker 1 she played it perfectly when she comes into that scene and he's like cowering in the bathroom. And he's like, he tells her to look at the sink.
Does that look clean to you?

Speaker 1 And she's like, not completely, Howard, but we all do what we can. You know, she's just like, he's a five-year-old.

Speaker 1 It's just amazing, though, way how a person can be so brilliant in some ways yeah and then so retardedly emotionally retarded in in others well melvin and howard was brilliantly directed by jonathan demi one of his earlier movies i think it was his maybe it's third or fourth third maybe

Speaker 1 and um

Speaker 1 It was a brilliant script by Bo Goldman. And

Speaker 1 I'm hoping to make a Bo Goldman script that I have, and he wanted me to make it. Oh.

Speaker 1 And he wrote it. I think Tracy.

Speaker 1 I've still got it. No,

Speaker 1 he passed away not long ago. So he won't be doing the rewrites.
No, there are no rewrites.

Speaker 1 It's perfect. If it's a Bo Goldman script,

Speaker 1 you don't touch it. You make it work.
So he wrote Shoot the Moon.

Speaker 1 I believe he did. Okay.

Speaker 1 Now, I may be wrong, but I think he did. That was another Boyd's family.
That was Albert, wasn't it? Yes, Albert.

Speaker 1 And didn't it take place in Napa Valley or something like that? No, no, no. England.

Speaker 1 England. So what was the story? The story is,

Speaker 1 it's funny. It came up right after we were talking about divorce story.
It would be a perfect companion film. Albert Finney.
Oh, I've got, I'm getting it mixed up at that point.

Speaker 1 Okay, he's married to, I think, Diane Keaton.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's in England. He's a professor, and he's having an affair with, I believe, Karen Allen.

Speaker 1 oh really yes and so it's just the dilapidation of that marriage it's it's divorce i think it is the same film and i have it in my imagination as it was somewhere in napa valley or something no no no i watched it fairly recently it's uh it's england he's in english he's english oh okay uh i think the wife is not i think she's american they're playing right

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 but There's a great scene where she's in the bathtub crying and singing the Beatles. If I fell in love with you, would you promise to be true? And

Speaker 1 yeah. Wow.
It's a great song. Great song.
Well, so you're Beatles not anyway, aren't you? You just love them. I do love them.

Speaker 1 And I can always

Speaker 1 find out.

Speaker 1 If you have something that I don't know about them, I'd love to hear it. Oh, I'm sure you know everything.
I mean, listen, I was just dragged by a girlfriend to the cavern,

Speaker 1 1962, I guess.

Speaker 1 Oh, my. And there they were.
And, you know, the cavern was no bigger than this.

Speaker 1 Right. With a vaulted ceiling.
Right. And they were on a stage, which was really a platform.
Right. This big.
Right. It was nine inches or something.
Yeah, they were amongst the people.

Speaker 1 They were, just slightly up.

Speaker 1 And the place was jammed always.

Speaker 1 And the and to dance, because you could not stop moving to their singing and their playing, was called the Liverpool stomp, which was literally you would hop on one foot to the next because you couldn't move around.

Speaker 1 That was it.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I remember very distinctly being completely taken with John Lennon and his persona on stage.

Speaker 1 Of course, it was before Ringo and all that, but

Speaker 1 they were called the Silver Beetles.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I don't remember them ever singing anything of their own, but then they may have done, and I didn't really know what it was. But

Speaker 1 of course, all Little Richard and Chuck Berry, you know, that Fats Domino,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 a lot of Buddy Holly.

Speaker 1 You certainly don't have that in my memory to see them at the cavern. No.
That's amazing. So I went back a lot with this same girl, Patricia

Speaker 1 Langshaw, her name. And you thought that they, just seeing them, you thought they were going to go places? No.
No.

Speaker 1 Really? Oh, Jesus. Do you think? I mean,

Speaker 1 I just thought they were a fantastic together band. Then why wouldn't you think that they were going to go places? Because there were a lot of bands.
Right.

Speaker 1 I'm not really afraid.

Speaker 1 But they didn't stick out?

Speaker 1 Well, they stick out because of who they became.

Speaker 1 Well, you're right. There were a lot of bands.
Yeah. Just

Speaker 1 the way in Jesus's time, there were a lot of new religions. Yeah.
Yeah. And one of them was the Betamax, and, you know, one of them was.
That's right. That's right.

Speaker 1 One of them was MySpace, and one of them was MySpace.

Speaker 1 Every pub had a live band.

Speaker 1 And the Beatles were voted by

Speaker 1 the Mersey Beat, which was the local yes the mersey river which is liverpool right yeah and so the mersey beat was this rag this little newspaper about

Speaker 1 this you know the the scene right and they were voted the second most popular band on merseyside the first being a jazz group called the mersey sippies oh jesus well i know well there was like bands like jerry and the pacemakers yeah in fact rory storm and the hurricane well that was ringo's band right no it wasn't it was Rory Storm's band.

Speaker 1 No, but Ringo was the drummer. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And he was obviously, they knew amongst themselves, he was by far the best drummer, you know, working in Liverpool. But there was a book written about the Beatles called

Speaker 1 150 Glimpses of the Beatles a couple of years ago. I did the book review for it in the New York Times book review session.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And one of the quibbles. You obviously loved it.

Speaker 1 I loved it, but I also had quibbles with it. And one of my quibbles was

Speaker 1 I could have done with 99 or 100 glimpses of the Beatles. 50 of them were not interesting to me, but you can't always get what you want.
Oh, wait, that's the stone.

Speaker 1 Okay, so one of the quibbles was that

Speaker 1 they did a chapter. It was a chapter, very brief chapters, and one of them was like, let's look at an alternative.

Speaker 1 What would happen if there was an alternative universe where Jerry and the Pacemakers became the big big group coming out of Liverpool, and the Beatles were just an afterthought.

Speaker 1 And I said, that's incredibly stupid because there's a reason why the Beatles became what they did because they have 200 great songs and Jerry and the Pacemakers has one. Two.
Or one, right?

Speaker 1 Well, did they say that? So you write, it's not a problem. He didn't write any of them.

Speaker 1 Jerry?

Speaker 1 He didn't write any of them.

Speaker 1 He was writing the coattails of the Pacemakers.

Speaker 1 What he did, his claim to fame for me,

Speaker 1 is that they always play You'll Never Walk Alone before Liverpool kick off.

Speaker 1 And 60,000 scouses rise up and sing, You'll Never Walk Alone. You know what the irony is, Malcolm? Tell me.
Jerry now is on a pacemaker.

Speaker 1 It's very sad. Oh, God.
And I just say. This is what happens when you sit down with a comedian.

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Speaker 1 But you've known a lot of comedians, right? Yeah, I do. I've known a lot.
Absolutely. Well, you know, Liverpool

Speaker 1 was a great place. A lot of comedians, English comedians, come out of Liverpool a lot.
Like who? Ken Dodd? Never heard of him. Oh, my God.
Well, Ken Dodd,

Speaker 1 if you see these old pictures of the

Speaker 1 newsreels of the Beatles, Ken Dodd's there with great hair, you know, up here, the Doddy Diddy Men and all that book. I know they were friends with Peter Sellers and the was it the Goons? Is that the

Speaker 1 Goons? Yeah, The Goons were a radio show. Okay.
That was Peter Sellers. Right.

Speaker 1 Dudley Moore. Dudley Moore.
No, no, that's way after. He came way after.
Okay, but American audiences know Dudley Moore. Yeah, well, Dudley Moore's a different time phase.

Speaker 1 Peter Sellers was... Right, but I mean, Peter Sellers and Dudley Moore came from that school.
It was kind of like here in LA. No, they didn't.
They didn't. You're wrong.
I'm sorry to tell you that.

Speaker 1 No, tell me. No, Dudley Moore

Speaker 1 wasn't a stand-up comedian. No, but they were, it wasn't Dudley Moore.
But Peter was a vaudevillian. He was in some troop like that.

Speaker 1 Yes, behind the fringe. Behind the fringe.
Beyond the fringe, actually. And I was saying, that's a little like our second sister.
He did tell me a funny story, actually, of Dudley.

Speaker 1 And he was a very sweet guy. But he said, you know, Malcolm,

Speaker 1 in the maturity, we were doing Beyond the Fringe.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 there were two, we came out, you know, with our, you know, with dark glasses, and they were following these two ladies and go, oh, it's a very lovely show, behind the fridge.

Speaker 1 So when they did the second one, it was called Behind the Fridge. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, so they came out of that one. I mean, Dudley Moore was as big a...
Peter Cook. Now, Peter Cook, Peter Cook was the.

Speaker 1 But Dudley Moore was a huge movie star in this country. Yeah.
Arthur 10. 10.

Speaker 1 He had a 10.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, that was interesting because he wasn't cast in that movie. It was George Siegel supposed to do it.

Speaker 1 Supposed to do Arthur? Yeah. No, no, 10.
10. 10.
I could see George Siegel in that. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But Duffy Moore was just, he was charming.
For some reason, I don't know why, but he couldn't do it at the last second.

Speaker 1 And I think.

Speaker 1 It wasn't it Blake Edwards that directed it? I think it was. But I'm just saying American audiences just fell in love with this sort of club-footed, diminutive, harmunculous.

Speaker 1 Because he was fun, he was very erudite, and he also could play a hell of a mean piano. Yes, but he was also self-deprecating, and he was just different and charming.
And you know, English.

Speaker 1 In England, he became

Speaker 1 part of a duo with Peter Cook in a show called

Speaker 1 Not Only But Also. Okay, I've heard of that.
Yeah. And so they'd be sitting there in the pub, you know,

Speaker 1 doing exactly what we're doing now. You go, you know, well, you've been a Mally Booley Bum Bum and

Speaker 1 you've pulled lobsters out of Jay Mansfield's ass. Is that it? You go, oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I've been watching Tottenham this week. Oh, yeah.
All that, you know.

Speaker 1 It's so funny.

Speaker 1 English humor. I know.
To an American, or at least this American, it's just, it's so. You don't get it.
You don't like it? No, no, no.

Speaker 1 It's just, it's, it's,

Speaker 1 it goes from,

Speaker 1 I would characterize it by saying it goes from like the best to the worst. I mean, when it's great, Monty Python.
And I mean, the Beatles themselves were very funny.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But lots of it. And then there's stuff that, yeah, that you just go.

Speaker 1 Benny Hill.

Speaker 1 Benny Hill. That's.
Yeah. No, but it's very broad.
But that goes back to Shakespeare, where there would be a very highbrow joke followed by a fart joke. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's totally true, actually. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So some of it I love. Yeah.
But you have, there was an incredible

Speaker 1 television sitcom called Hancock's Half Hour.

Speaker 1 And it starred this comedian called Tony Hancock. And he was always fucking everything up.
And it was Hancock's half hour.

Speaker 1 And it was actually groundbreaking and quite brilliant in black and white and we all watched it and you know he pulled in like 20 million viewers a week um

Speaker 1 god knows they couldn't get that many when did you move to america like in 1979 79 that far back yeah

Speaker 1 and became a citizen right away no never

Speaker 1 uh no i am a citizen now but uh because it's the fourth of july tomorrow mister and i don't want any bullshit it's the fourth of july tomorrow no he he doesn't. You're in America now.

Speaker 1 I don't want any bullshit about

Speaker 1 the mother country or the queen or any of that. The queen, excuse me, she passed away a year ago.
I know. It's the king now.

Speaker 1 Well, whatever. Well, in my view, the king usually is a queen.

Speaker 1 Well, he's not a queen. No, no.
I like Prince Charles. Always did.
Yeah, he's a good guy. He's a very good guy.

Speaker 1 Yes, I mean, he is what he is. They all are.

Speaker 1 But for being in that royal family and being the hand he was dealt with the mother who would never say this, who would never go away. And

Speaker 1 he was up on real issues. He was a big environmentalist.

Speaker 1 He was.

Speaker 1 And he was dear to his heart. And he loved good, interesting architecture

Speaker 1 and bemoaned some of these awful buildings.

Speaker 1 The selfless thing to do would be for someone to have the guts to completely renounce the monarchy and say, we should just retire this. It's antiquated.
But it also, I get it, serves a purpose.

Speaker 1 Well, wait a minute. Would you say that about the Declaration of Independence? Let's forget it.

Speaker 1 Let's not even go there.

Speaker 1 No, because there are two completely different categories.

Speaker 1 No, they're not, actually. They are not.
No, I'll tell you why. The Declaration of Independence is a collection of ideas.
Yes, but

Speaker 1 so is the monarchy. And the monarchy has been around a lot longer than America itself.
Yeah. It goes back thousands of years.
And you can keep a corpse in the attic if you want. No, but look,

Speaker 1 they've

Speaker 1 actually made it work. And the monarchy, of course, has no political clout and it really doesn't mean much, but it means a lot to the populace.

Speaker 1 Because it's outside of

Speaker 1 party political politics. I've seen the point that there is an argument for it.
Yeah. And I can make that argument.
I can make, by the way, arguments against two.

Speaker 1 It's a waste waste of fun and money. I agree, because it's part of both.
But what I will not countenance is that it's anything like the Declaration of Independence. Again, one is a set of ideas.

Speaker 1 One provides an emotional solace for a population and a rallying point.

Speaker 1 And that is important. Maybe we should have a royal family, other than the Kardashians, of course, who could like take all the gossip because that's the thing.

Speaker 1 The royal family like takes all the gossip.

Speaker 1 Not that there isn't gossip with the regular politicians too but like they take a lot of that and there is a there is an argument for no you need someone to just do the ceremonial stuff

Speaker 1 well you do actually and then free up the don't forget it's only

Speaker 1 in times of real trouble and stress like a world war for instance like a blitz right for instance when the royal family's true worth comes into being right it's that rallying as you said,

Speaker 1 this optimism about.

Speaker 1 Although in World War II, I mean, I'm sure the royal family did their part, but it was Winston Churchill who rallied the people and inspired them. Winston Churchill would probably disagree with you.

Speaker 1 Oh, please.

Speaker 1 Well, of course he was a great orator. He's a great is a great man, the greatest man of ever.
But they also knew he was the actual leader.

Speaker 1 So during a time of crisis, it's nice to know that the guy who's the actual head of the government...

Speaker 1 Yes, he's the head of the government and he would bow his head when King George VI came into the room.

Speaker 1 No, I get it that you English have a fucking hard on for these old crones and people and these inbreds from centuries ago and you

Speaker 1 It's I get it. I've had this with so many people Sharon Osborne, Pierce Morgan

Speaker 1 you all take umbrage and I'm not trying to insult well no no listen I'll tell you this Bill

Speaker 1 the biggest fans of the royal family are the American public. You're so right.
Which is blows my mind.

Speaker 1 Which speaks to the point that maybe we need one because they yearn for it. They yearn for it so much.
You're right. And you are.
You don't have to get, you don't have to do anything. Right.

Speaker 1 You don't even have to pay for it.

Speaker 1 Well, Trump will take over, never give up the post, and then we'll have it. So like, I don't know what we're worrying about.
This problem is going to take care of itself. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then he'll pass the crown on to Don Jr.

Speaker 1 That'll be great.

Speaker 1 And then it'll,

Speaker 1 or Ivanka. So why even get rid of George III? I mean, you've got your own monarch now.
Yeah, Ivanka would be a good queen, and she's actually very nice, and she's

Speaker 1 not dumb at all. So maybe that would certainly be better than him.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, she could do a Nixon to China kind of thing and just be, you know, she travels in like liberal circles, like she knows lots of people from.

Speaker 1 She grew up, you know, in New york city and um and then of course it'll go to baron

Speaker 1 i don't know if that's a great thing

Speaker 1 i don't know much he kind of looks like the kid from the omen i don't know much about him you know except that he's very

Speaker 1 tall very very tall uh good-looking kid yeah very but you know there's something about the male gene in the trump family that i'm a little distrustful of considering the father oh the father fred was fred was you know i'm not going to to say he's a Nazi.

Speaker 1 I'm going to say adjacent.

Speaker 1 I just, you know, and not

Speaker 1 definitely not going to get the NAACP Award of the Year at any time posthumously.

Speaker 1 And then, of course, there's Trump himself. And

Speaker 1 it stems from the father, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 I mean, isn't that the theme of so much

Speaker 1 experience?

Speaker 1 I think it goes back to the Greeks, very much so.

Speaker 1 What is the Oedipus complex? Yeah. The Oedipus Complex basically.
Well, the Greeks invented drama. Did you ever do a Greek play like that? No, I've been in a play called Andromark,

Speaker 1 but it was part, I was a very young actor, maybe 20.

Speaker 1 And I was asked if I wanted to be a soldier in the world theater season. And the French were coming over with this Greek play called Andromark.
And it starred Jean-Louis Barlow and his wife.

Speaker 1 And I can't remember remember who she was, but she was the most famous actress in France. And I had to stand there, you know, and listen to this in French.

Speaker 1 It was

Speaker 1 quite amusing, actually.

Speaker 1 And I was told one performance that as soon as the curtain comes down, you're to leave the stage immediately. And I went, well, why? Don't ask, just leave.
And I thought,

Speaker 1 I'm going to hang around a bit.

Speaker 1 And of course, I came from behind the curtain and stood. And suddenly, I stood to attention.
Her Majesty walked in. Really? Yeah.
And I met Her Majesty. Wow.
And they were like,

Speaker 1 who is this?

Speaker 1 Don't you have to memorize a whole list of things that you're not supposed to do? Mom. No, like you can't turn your back on her.

Speaker 1 There's a whole list of like do's and don'ts. She's really cool.
She really was. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It wasn't her.

Speaker 1 The one that really demanded

Speaker 1 the rigmarole of all that was Princess Margaret.

Speaker 1 Fred Armiston used to do a genius sketch on SNO where it was the queen and their, and

Speaker 1 you see them with like the press or something are in their room and they are some people from outside and they're talking in their upper crust accents and they're acting like the queen and king as we know.

Speaker 1 And as soon as the strangers leave the room, they've got completely, you know,

Speaker 1 what code? The scouse is that?

Speaker 1 That accent. Oh, I love it.
And they're like truck driving.

Speaker 1 By the way, did you see those two little girls from Burnley going, I've just been able to ice cream nine pounds, nine pounds for two ice creams. She was like this big.
Nine pounds.

Speaker 1 I mean, oh, well, I don't care if he does hear me. And they marched off.
It's hilarious. Is this like a TikTok?

Speaker 1 No, it was, it was, I don't know whether it was TikTok, one of of those things. It was going the rounds, and I saw it a few.
Do you use TikTok? No.

Speaker 1 What about Instagram? Instagram, yeah. You do? Yeah.
You scroll through?

Speaker 1 Occasionally. My wife does a lot of it.
I say, can we post something?

Speaker 1 Please, can we post this? And she goes, I'll find you a great picture or photograph.

Speaker 1 Instagram seems to think that the only thing I'm interested in seeing is dogs

Speaker 1 doing goofy things that make me laugh. Well, I love that, too.
And that's because that is the only thing I'm interested in. Is that the only thing that makes you laugh? And cats are funny, too.

Speaker 1 Thank God I am a person of discipline because I absolutely could look at dogs like doing goofy things. That's YouTube.
That's YouTube. No, no, no, it's Instagram.
That's all I want.

Speaker 1 I can just scroll. And that's it's mostly what it is.
I guess it's also this podcast and my show

Speaker 1 and that.

Speaker 1 Wow. Well,

Speaker 1 your education is somewhat limited then.

Speaker 1 That's true. Well, I mean, I'm not going to say that I'm

Speaker 1 technologically savvy.

Speaker 1 No, I do my best.

Speaker 1 But, you know, when you're not native to us and to this thing, as people in our generations are not,

Speaker 1 it's like always doing it left-handed. I know.
And they do not make it easy. They purposely.

Speaker 1 Well, where's the

Speaker 1 kids go, it's on a story, on Instagram story. No, I just think like they don't.
What do you mean, story? I see the picture. Where's the story? They're constantly changing shit.
Yeah, are they?

Speaker 1 Like how things work in the computer. Oh, yeah.
You know, and

Speaker 1 on your phone and shit. And it's like suddenly something doesn't work streaming.
And it's like,

Speaker 1 okay, you know, passwords. And it's just, it's just.
I know, but isn't it amazing, though, really, that on this tiny phone. Yeah, oh, I know.
It is.

Speaker 1 Your whole life is. Oh, it is.
It's, it's, I mean, it's just

Speaker 1 insane.

Speaker 1 We take for granted, we immediately get used to all these amazing stuff until you lose it. Well, and then you're going, I can't remember anybody's number.

Speaker 1 But then, you know, you bitch about the stuff that doesn't work. And the truth is that all of it is glitchy, but that's just where we are.
Someday, I guess they'll make it unglitchy.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, a lot of it is that there's so many predators on the internet of all sites. I'm talking about.
Oh, by the way, I'm in this movie called Thelma with

Speaker 1 June Squibb, who is the lead in the movie. She was 93.
And it's about this very thing. She's being scammed.
Right.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 gets talked into giving 10,000,000 bucks. No, Apple is like

Speaker 1 infuriating to deal with, but I only blame them half, for half of it, because

Speaker 1 they do really try hard. I'll give them that.
Who, Apple? To protect your privacy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So therefore, this is like so many firewalls to try to keep out the fucking leeches out there who, who, I mean, because it's so easy,

Speaker 1 hackers and so forth

Speaker 1 to make money. You don't even have to scam people half the time.
You can just steal it by writing. You know where they steal most of it is from the government.
And the government, of course.

Speaker 1 They steal

Speaker 1 the worst possible because they're completely in it.

Speaker 1 I mean, this whole COVID payments and everything, people made billions

Speaker 1 just by filling in forms.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's staggering. There's a piece about it in that book.
Is there? Oh, absolutely. You'll see it.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Is that mine to take home? Absolutely. Wow.
Completely free, Malcolm.

Speaker 1 Scam America is what we call Scamerica. Yeah.
It's so easy to scam America.

Speaker 1 But, you know,

Speaker 1 you would be good in, you know, these all these Greek plays.

Speaker 1 They always need, because the Greeks were not ageists, there's always the Nestor character, like in the Odyssey, Nestor, the old, wise person. I've seen Anthony Hopkins play it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And all the, like in Achilles and all these things. That's.
By the way,

Speaker 1 do you know Brian Johnson by chance? Who is he?

Speaker 1 He should come to this. Really?

Speaker 1 He's the lead singer of ACDC. Oh, ACDC.
One of the funniest men I've ever met. Let's get him over here.
He is right now.

Speaker 1 Brilliant.

Speaker 1 And I was going to do a musical

Speaker 1 of Helen of Troy. It was called Troy.
Oh, Helen of one of the other. I can't remember now.
A musical of Helen of Troy. Yes.
And he ghosting. Madam,

Speaker 1 you're fucking Zeus, man. You're going to be flying over the fucking stage and there's going to be sparks coming out of your ass.

Speaker 1 And I went, wow, that sounds pretty good. He wrote me this great song, It's Good to Be God.
Wait, but why would you need to be flying first to because it's Zeus flying above it? Oh, you're Zeus? Yeah.

Speaker 1 See, that's what I'm saying is this is the, this is the age of playing gods. And like, like,

Speaker 1 yeah. Or, you know, like

Speaker 1 superhero movies always need like the old dude who

Speaker 1 the fortress of birth or whatever, and he tells the muscle battle. Well, the best one was Alec Guinness, no? What? Alec Guinness.
Alec.

Speaker 1 Brando did it in Superman. Yeah.
There's always the old

Speaker 1 dude who gives wisdom to the guy that the girls want to fuck. That's right.
Yeah. That's right.

Speaker 1 Hey, you know, you go through the stages and you end up. Right.
Seven ages of man. That's right.
That's where you end up. I mean.
And embrace it and love it.

Speaker 1 Well, that's what I try to do.

Speaker 1 That's a great attitude. I only half believe you.

Speaker 1 I believe the embrace part. Love it.
I totally.

Speaker 1 I would not, I don't don't have to do it. Do what?

Speaker 1 Act.

Speaker 1 Oh, I thought you meant live.

Speaker 1 No, but acting is, I love,

Speaker 1 I love it still as much as I think I did way back when. Right.
Well, you know why? Because you get better at it. You do.

Speaker 1 I'm saying this just as a fan of you and acting in general. It's so obvious to me.

Speaker 1 That when I'm watching a movie and there's somebody in the scene who's in their 20s or 30s and they're acting with someone who's in their 50s or 60s, it's like watching a split screen. It just is.

Speaker 1 I mean, not that the people who are younger are bad. It's just you get better.
You just get, because you get better as a person and you're more comfortable in your skin. You don't really realize it.

Speaker 1 Of course not. It's an evolution.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it's true. I mean, I just, you asked me

Speaker 1 great movies I've seen. Okay.
I'm going to tell you about one I just saw.

Speaker 1 We will not be, it was fine, but we will not be filing under the category of great. Okay.
Okay. So

Speaker 1 it was, it's on Netflix. I can't remember the name of it.

Speaker 1 And by the way, it was, it was the second movie of a genre which I will only call Mom Fucks a Rockstar because this is the second one I've seen. Ann Hathaway just did one

Speaker 1 where mom fucks the rock star. Like her,

Speaker 1 yeah what's it called

Speaker 1 it's called mom fucks a rock star no it's not but it should be and because like the daughter but i feel like that one i love ann hathaway though me too and i think and she's uh very attractive at you know she's i think she's a good actress really she's playing someone with a teenage daughter who she takes to a concert she's got a teenage daughter well in the movie and stumbles backstage uh looking for her daughter or the bathroom or something and meets the rock star cut to their fucking now.

Speaker 1 Who did she meet? Who's the rock star? I don't remember his name. He's new.
He was very, very good in the part. I mean, they know.
He's an actor, though.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah. Not a rock star.
No, no, no. He's playing a rock star.
It's a movie. No, I know.

Speaker 1 So then now there's one,

Speaker 1 Nicole Kidman.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's the other one. And Zach Efron.
That's right. That's the one I read about.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And again, mom fucks the, well, he's a movie star.

Speaker 1 And I'm just wondering why, like, this genre has reared its head at this moment. It just struck me as.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 people of a certain age,

Speaker 1 the ladies, they need these parts.

Speaker 1 So, hey, so let's put her in the...

Speaker 1 Okay, so.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see. You're saying it's star-driven.
Yeah, of course. You think most parts are that way? No.
A lot aren't. The good ones aren't.
The really good ones are organic stories.

Speaker 1 But William goldman you're familiar he wrote the book yes of course um unlike bo goldman that's a totally different book right but another great screenwriter william goldman

Speaker 1 one of the greats yeah right and and and wrote and probably wrote the best book about screenwriting adventures in the screen yeah brilliant all his and you know didn't he do um butch cassidy network was it no that's patty chaewski

Speaker 1 that's right that's right that's right but he said goldman said like if you want to get you know first of of all, you're writing a script, you might as well just

Speaker 1 throw it in the garbage if you can't get a star attached to it. So you have to have that in mind.
Yeah. So he said, and you want to get the star to do it, write him a great opening

Speaker 1 speech when he first walks in or, you know, make him look fucking, it's not rocket science to get on the good side of movie people. Make him look really good.
They're all world egomaniacs to him.

Speaker 1 Why are we in this business yeah it's it's all about mom look at me i'm doing it yeah look yeah you know so oh yeah and sort of true i mean yeah it's funny that's totally different from my experience which was

Speaker 1 you know with a very great director i just got plucked out of a crowd kubrick no lindsay lindsay anderson oh yeah who's that

Speaker 1 wow i thought you were a cenophile and i really thought you were

Speaker 1 Well, I guess

Speaker 1 not to your degree. No, I mean,

Speaker 1 you should know who is.

Speaker 1 Well, he made, he didn't make that many films, but they were great ones. He made a film called This Sporting Life with Richard Harris, Richard Harris's best performance, I think, ever on a movie.

Speaker 1 And he did my first film, If O Lucky Man, which I wrote with him. I know that.
And David Sherwood. And

Speaker 1 he did a lot of theater in London. In 30 years, he would have a play always in production.

Speaker 1 Well, I'll put it on the top of my to-do list to catch up to this dude. Come on, no.

Speaker 1 Have you ever seen If?

Speaker 1 May I just ask that question?

Speaker 1 If. It doesn't matter if you haven't.

Speaker 1 I must not have.

Speaker 1 Oh, you would love the film. I'm telling you now, knowing you as I do,

Speaker 1 not very well, but I know that you appreciate really good. Good.
I'm always looking for Christmas. It's a masterpiece.
I think I want to watch the third version of Mom Fox the Rockstar.

Speaker 1 Well, if you can put up with that.

Speaker 1 It's pretty amazing. No,

Speaker 1 this is an amazing movie that was written in.

Speaker 1 It's funny. I'm always saying to myself, I'm going to write out a list.

Speaker 1 of movies that I need to catch up to because I mean there are thousands of movies that are worthy of seeing and no I think I've seen a lot of them Yeah. No, not all of them.

Speaker 1 So make a list. And then when I get into bed at night, instead of like

Speaker 1 looking at whatever is

Speaker 1 whatever they're putting out in the buffet happened to be a lot of mom fucks the rock star lately. Yeah.
I could just dial up the one that I wrote on the list that's worthy.

Speaker 1 Well, you and then I never do it. You've seen movies like, I don't know, Multis Vulcomed.
Of course.

Speaker 1 Yes. Go ahead.
Keep testing me. I'll see.

Speaker 1 See if if I'm

Speaker 1 redeem myself.

Speaker 1 Anything with Jimmy Cagney, of course. Nothing.
Yankee Doodle Dandy.

Speaker 1 Don't remember it if I saw it. White Heat.
Yankee Doodle Dandy. If I saw it, I remember it.
Jimmy Cagney. No, that's before.

Speaker 1 Well.

Speaker 1 No, you would love this. You would love this movie.
Okay. I mean, come on.
Sometimes these movies are so old that

Speaker 1 the style is so different that

Speaker 1 it only only survives really as a historical piece. Yes, there's moments

Speaker 1 in it that are. I totally disagree with you.
Well, yeah, well, that's because there's great artistry.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you may

Speaker 1 styles may change. Of course, styles change.
You're right. Look, you're going to say that about John Ford's movies.
You know what? You're right.

Speaker 1 I'm not that much of a cinephile, and I don't want to be. You know, I don't want to be a snob about what's entertaining me.
I just want to be entertained. Well, yeah.
Just suck my dick and go home.

Speaker 1 I don't want to. And a cinephile is somebody that's not, that

Speaker 1 does a critique.

Speaker 1 They either love it or they don't, you know, and

Speaker 1 but but you have to open yourself up to things that are not just, you know, the normal fair. No, I am.
I love

Speaker 1 the just

Speaker 1 looking to green screen, you know. Oh, yeah.
No, no. I, I'm, trust me, there are nights when I'm very entertained by what they're offering and then there's nights where I really need that list.
And

Speaker 1 I'm going to start it now. Well, I'm at the point where I'm sort of just doing things that are really outside my supposed range and just for the hell have a go, you know.
I don't know if I don't care.

Speaker 1 Have you always used the same criteria for deciding whether to do a script or not? Or has that changed?

Speaker 1 No, that's never really changed.

Speaker 1 Never.

Speaker 1 I read it. I know within 10 pages whether I'm going to do it.
So you never did anything just for the money?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 1 What do you think? I'm a professional actor, for Christ's sake. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What are they offering? Jesus. Okay.
Yeah. Well, I can make that work.

Speaker 1 Like what? I'm talking. What'd you do just for the money?

Speaker 1 I did this

Speaker 1 thing called what was it called it was this French comedy thing and it was actually very successful in France They tried to remake it here in America and it was what was it called christ i've had a complete block because i just hated it so much jean renault was in it well it was called it'll come to me but you know i i've names i'm using it with names a lot as long as you remembered the money the money was

Speaker 1 and i couldn't believe it and that was lovely what did you get for caligula

Speaker 1 Ah,

Speaker 1 you know, I didn't get paid that much. I think by the time...
I'm guessing you didn't. No, I

Speaker 1 that's why I'm asking.

Speaker 1 I'm guessing it's shockingly low or it would be no,

Speaker 1 it wasn't shockingly low. I think I got as an

Speaker 1 upfront

Speaker 1 pay was $300,000,

Speaker 1 but it went over and over. I got another $200,000,

Speaker 1 but it was out of the country, so it was tax-free. I remember seeing it in a theater in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 1 And it's not on your top 10 list?

Speaker 1 I was making the movie DC Cab at the time. Oh, really? And had a day off, and I went, yeah.

Speaker 1 And I was like practically masturbating before I got into the theater. I just thought this is going to be...
And it was. I mean, there was lots of whacking material to take.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But, you know, look.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, they've re-edited the whole thing, and it's about to open. I have to see that again.
No, but listen, this this is

Speaker 1 what they did was amazing because

Speaker 1 Gucione controlled

Speaker 1 the movie, stuck in 40, 50 minutes of hardcore porn,

Speaker 1 dropped the whole last hour of the movie. So it made no sense whatsoever.
He could care less. He had his A-list actors and

Speaker 1 he had the pornography and he had all the, and he also, he forewalled it, which means he bought out the cinema. He didn't have a distribution deal.
He did it himself.

Speaker 1 So instead of charging the, I think the average price of a ticket was $3

Speaker 1 then, he charged seven. And there were lines around the block, you know.

Speaker 1 But it was absolutely a piece of absolute garbage. But it could have been good if they had edited it differently, you're saying there was, you actually made a good movie that just got cut out.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 And so what happened? What's the theme?

Speaker 1 Well, it's it's about the rise and fall of this emperor. Yeah, but what's the theme? Like what, I mean, it's.

Speaker 1 You know, he was supposed to be mad.

Speaker 1 And when I, and Gorvidal wrote the script, the original script,

Speaker 1 which was terrible, by the way. Really? Yeah.
Gorvidal's script was terrible. Yes.
Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 And I had lots of... discussions with him and said, God,

Speaker 1 we can't shoot this. You're going to have to do some rewrites.
And he was like, I don't need to do rewrites.

Speaker 1 What did you find lacking in it?

Speaker 1 It just didn't,

Speaker 1 it was just a

Speaker 1 sort of tableau, one tableau after the other, without connecting or flowing or have any reason for it. Well, that's what I'm asking you.
What is the theme?

Speaker 1 I mean, if you ask me what's the theme of Hamlet, I would say when Laurence Olivier made it, he put a tag at the beginning that said, This is the story of a man who could not make up his mind.

Speaker 1 Okay, so now I know what his tragic flaw was.

Speaker 1 What was that for Caligula?

Speaker 1 Caligula was

Speaker 1 thrust into a position of absolute power.

Speaker 1 He had absolute power over life and death. Nothing like the sort of power that even, you know, the sort of Putin power, you know, and at a very young age,

Speaker 1 And he, listen, went through Tiberius's,

Speaker 1 all the money that Tiberius had made in 14 years of reign. He went through it in 18 months, a whole lot.

Speaker 1 And he was very popular, Caligula, because he was always giving the Roman citizens five gold pieces.

Speaker 1 And they loved him. You know, why not? It's like getting a big bonus of the enemy.
But why was he like that? Because

Speaker 1 he was a Nepo-based.

Speaker 1 Well, the way I played it, I didn't want to play him as a madman because you can't spend two and a half hours just being mad right i mean there has to be some so i what is this arc uh my arc was that he was

Speaker 1 one of the original anarchists and was bringing down the whole roman empire from the top

Speaker 1 he wanted to do that yes but he didn't he saw all the corruption and all the

Speaker 1 i thought he was the corruption he's part of it but he saw all the corruption corruption in all the things around him the senate the this of that and and he railed against it and brought it down from the top and that's the way i chose to do it whether it was right well he certainly didn't bring it down because it was i mean no he was a murdered of course yeah yeah and the roman empire thrived for over another century.

Speaker 1 I mean, the Pax Romana did not end until 180 AD. That's right.
You you know so okay well um it's a but it's uh it was absolutely beautifully shot beautifully

Speaker 1 designed by um folina's designer danilo danati

Speaker 1 he did the costumes as well and um

Speaker 1 huge sets massive i mean i walk onto these sets and go

Speaker 1 so you couldn't do any small acting. You had to move around the sets because otherwise

Speaker 1 you couldn't be seen. Right.
You'd have to.

Speaker 1 I was running everywhere.

Speaker 1 I mean, it was just ridiculous. But I knew that's the only way to do it with those sets.
You know, that.

Speaker 1 Movie making is so ridiculous

Speaker 1 in a way.

Speaker 1 But it's fun. Oh, sure.
Of course. I know.
I did it. It's a wonderful

Speaker 1 sleight of hand. It is an odd way to live, though, because

Speaker 1 you're so intensely interwoven with a group of people for three or six or nine months. Yeah.
Like, because movies

Speaker 1 all day and all night. Yeah.
So you really only do the movie and sleep. So the people that you're with,

Speaker 1 it's like your left hand. You know, you're just, and then it all goes, and then you all go away.
And it just ends like in a day, and it's very weird. Yes.
It's just psychologically very weird.

Speaker 1 It's sort of very, yeah, it's, it's,

Speaker 1 well, it's really strange too, performance-wise. For instance, in the theater,

Speaker 1 if you want to

Speaker 1 have the audience look at you in close-up

Speaker 1 in the theater so that you become very still

Speaker 1 and don't move hardly at all, then the audience come in.

Speaker 1 If you want them to move out to a mid-shot, you do this.

Speaker 1 And suddenly it's to here.

Speaker 1 If you want a long shot, or the whole, you move around the set.

Speaker 1 and so you you're literally editing your own performance in a

Speaker 1 in a theater you can't do that but you can help the editor right by saying something and then looking over right going what the fuck is he looking at and and so

Speaker 1 and then they'll come back right

Speaker 1 you know so you've got to know what's important that's you've got to know what's important in a scene that's a considerate actor you're thinking along with the director so that you're giving him the choices.

Speaker 1 But you're not saying anything. No, no, you don't have to say it.
You don't want to

Speaker 1 intimidate. Well, I'm sure that's one reason why you never stop working is, you know, people want to work with people who make work easy,

Speaker 1 as opposed to many actors who have. Won't come out of the trailer.
Well,

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 and many other things.

Speaker 1 And I don't even. I haven't worked with many of those.
Well, I mean, there's many videos of blow-ups on sets. There's the famous one with David O'Russell.
There's a famous one with

Speaker 1 Kristen Bale.

Speaker 1 That's a great one. I don't know if people realize that you could have one from every movie that was ever made.
Movie sets are, by their nature, tense places. Sure.

Speaker 1 And a lot of that tension is just right below the surface. And actors use that as their instrument, of course.
It's brilliant to have Edge.

Speaker 1 But it also can just, I mean, I've had it done at me on a sitcom one. Oh, tell me.

Speaker 1 What happened? I'll tell you a few.

Speaker 1 What happened?

Speaker 1 Well, I was on a sitcom, and one of the

Speaker 1 actors was on heroin. So

Speaker 1 he didn't show up a lot, but the show was sort of like centered around him.

Speaker 1 So there was a lot of tension when, you know, we couldn't shoot and, you know, he wasn't there.

Speaker 1 And then one of the other actors, because they couldn't really take it out on him because he was the star of the show, kind of like exploded at me. Like, you know, so I,

Speaker 1 okay. Yeah.
But we've all had

Speaker 1 been on sets where somebody exploded. It just is sort of built into the system.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't kind of mind that. I mean, I don't do a lot of that.
No, I'm going to say you, but

Speaker 1 you've seen it. Yeah.
I mean, sometimes I felt like it, but

Speaker 1 I know that it tends to get

Speaker 1 an actor is like having trouble getting the scene right or he's having trouble remembering the lines. Yeah.
And then somebody like moves in his eye line. And he'll blame that.

Speaker 1 Hey, how the hell am I supposed to do this? Get out of my eye control.

Speaker 1 Sorry, what was the line? Yeah, come on. Let me tell you, people in your eye line is legitimately a fuck-up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love it. I don't mind at all.
People in your eye line? I don't mind at all because I'm not seeing them. Wow.
I'm not focusing on them. I'm somewhere else.
So,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I really like when I'm

Speaker 1 doing my monologue on my show, like, don't have people scurrying around, but

Speaker 1 with cameras. Scurried around.

Speaker 1 Sometimes, you know, people want to.

Speaker 1 The director's got to be in the eyeline. I mean, somebody's got to be in there.
The director's in the booth.

Speaker 1 Television. Television.
Okay.

Speaker 1 In the booth. Wow.
Well, they are. Bill Moore.
I don't know if we've met you. How are we? Nice to meet you.
Oh, that's television. That's old school stuff.
Oh, yeah. Now it's all film.
They don't.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. You know, they make them flat now.
Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, my God.
Yeah, I've had a few. Just a couple of.

Speaker 1 I mean, you got TV laid in England. You got TV late in England.
I remember being in England in the 80s, and there was still only like two channels. Oh.

Speaker 1 I mean, it was now it's just like American TV, but. Yeah, they have all the same stuff now, satellite stuff.
And stupid stuff. Yeah.
Like I used to be able to think, oh, I like some stupid stuff.

Speaker 1 I do too, but like I used to think of Britain, and maybe it still is to a degree, like

Speaker 1 more erudite, more mature

Speaker 1 in the West. No.
No. No, I think they...

Speaker 1 Once in a while.

Speaker 1 America Americanized a lot of the world. And I'm not saying that as a compliment.

Speaker 1 It's not bad, though.

Speaker 1 Some of it is. Listen, it gave me great hope as a young man to see American movies, to see Westerns, Saturday morning, newsreel.
Why did you want to move here?

Speaker 1 I didn't particularly want to move here, but

Speaker 1 you did. I fell in love

Speaker 1 and had a choice.

Speaker 1 You moved for the wife. Yeah, of course.
For Larry. Yeah.
But then you stayed. Well, when we split up, I wasn't going to be...

Speaker 1 you know, an absentee father. Right.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I really didn't have a choice, choice, you know, about that. And I didn't mind.
I kind of had to start again, but it was fine. It was okay.

Speaker 1 And I still worked in Italy. Are you missing one?

Speaker 1 Still, after all these years?

Speaker 1 There's a lot I love about my home country, of course. And I

Speaker 1 feel very

Speaker 1 patriotic about it in some respects. But do I miss it? No, but I'm not the kind of person that looks back.
Me neither.

Speaker 1 I never look at my old stuff. I never look at the work.
In fact, I very rarely see any of it. But I am.
Because I'm always thinking about the next thing. And people go, what's your favorite part?

Speaker 1 You have to do that. And I always go, my next thing.
Next, exactly. That's it.

Speaker 1 You know, and I'm really excited because I'm going to do this film of Death in Venice with Davy Porter. And I'm really,

Speaker 1 he wrote it. He's directing it.
But it's really interesting because I don't. Did you see the Visconti movie? No, I'm not a cenophile.
Oh, fuck you.

Speaker 1 You are

Speaker 1 such a prick. I'm the prick? Yeah, come on, come on.

Speaker 1 No, but

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 think this is going to be great, but it's a little eggheady. I think you should do it.
No, no, no, it's not egg heady. But is it Thomas Mann?

Speaker 1 I knew it was Thomas Mann. Okay.
Maybe I'm a bibliophile. But

Speaker 1 no, but I'm just saying it's not a popcorn movie. I'm just saying don't be snobby if Aquaman needs an old dude to like teach him

Speaker 1 the ways of the sea or something. Like just if you're if the Superman

Speaker 1 are you all, I'm a great

Speaker 1 I'm a manager. I would be a great manager.
I always have good ideas for people on this show. I'm just telling you,

Speaker 1 this is, this is,

Speaker 1 if your agent isn't working on this right now, every superhero needs this mentor, this wise mentor.

Speaker 1 And it helps if the, if the, if help the person playing the part also is seen by the audience as sort of this eminence of

Speaker 1 many years who we've come to respect and like, and he's iconic. So you, you kind of want to blend those.

Speaker 1 You know, that's why I'm sure Brando got a fortune, and I'm sure it took him one day to shoot that part. I'm Jorrell, and I'm going to send you to Earth.
And then.

Speaker 1 And you know he was reading it off the guy's head first.

Speaker 1 Who cares? No, I know. It's what you see.
And

Speaker 1 that's why I love Marlon. Many reasons.
I mean, Marlon Branda gave

Speaker 1 some of probably the greatest performances ever on Cellular. But the reason I love him more than any of the others is because he did it while not taking it seriously at all.

Speaker 1 I mean, imagine writing it.

Speaker 1 You think he didn't take

Speaker 1 on the waterfront, seriously? Oh, on the waterfront, back then.

Speaker 1 Yes, back then, yes. I'm talking about like even if...
That's him absolutely at his top of his power. Well, I would say that was the Godfather, but, you know, he's great at it.
Oh, my God, no.

Speaker 1 No, The Godfather. It's a great movie, of course, and he's brilliant in it, but the range he had.

Speaker 1 And on the waterfront is staggering. And the vulnerability and the

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 look at the wonderful vulnerability in that taxicab scene the famous scene with Steiger that could have been somebody there you go you see it's a bit of a bungalow and then you're telling me you're not a Xenophile right is that it oh I've seen that one it's been a while I mean

Speaker 1 of course

Speaker 1 yeah I mean I feel like I watched it. I'm sure I've watched it more than once.
I'm sure I watched it once when I was young and oh boy on the waterfront. And then I probably watched it one other time.

Speaker 1 And I think I thought, yeah, it's good. But like a lot of those, it's like, yeah, it's kind of of its era.
First of all, just the pacing is often slower than we have come to.

Speaker 1 Our brains have gotten used to something a little quicker. I mean, Hitchcock is painstakingly slow.

Speaker 1 It's very hard to get through a Hitchcock movie. Very little happens.
It's very,

Speaker 1 really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Stupidly. I mean, I should have done it.
It was a terrible script, and I didn't like the film at all, but I should have done it.

Speaker 1 To work with him, man. You know, I bet you I know which one it was.
Okay, tell me. Well, I remember seeing in the theater.
I was 16. It was 72, I believe.
Yeah. It may have been his last movie.

Speaker 1 No, it wasn't the last, but close to the movie. What was it called? I think it was.

Speaker 1 Frenzy.

Speaker 1 Frenzy, maybe.

Speaker 1 And it was,

Speaker 1 it took place in Covent Garden. It was in color, which I remember saying

Speaker 1 was

Speaker 1 the one great scene in it was that there was a body

Speaker 1 in a truck full of potatoes. And this hand comes out of all these potatoes, the body's buried under it.
And when it goes around a corner, a lot of potatoes slide and you see a hand. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's pretty cool. Yeah, I mean, Hitch, I feel like, was really made for compilation reels.
Like when they show great moments, and it's like, oh, the hand coming out or the shower thing.

Speaker 1 And then you watch the movie and it's like, wow, there's just few and far between. You know, we were listening.
It's just very subtle. My sons and I, on the way down here, were listening to

Speaker 1 Eleanor Rigby.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's such a great song. Oh.
But you know, that

Speaker 1 stabbing,

Speaker 1 stabbing, stabbing violin that's in that. Yes.

Speaker 1 You know where that, the inspiration for that is Hitchcock.

Speaker 1 Psycho. Really?

Speaker 1 The stabbing scene in the shower.

Speaker 1 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And how do we know that's in that?

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 I believe you, but how do we know this? I think Paul talked about it. Oh, we did.
If it wasn't Paul, it was George Martin who talked about it.

Speaker 1 No, I know exactly what you're talking about, and it makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Isn't it weird, though, how these things cross over?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Or the inspiration. I mean, I know.
It's just amazing. It's amazing.
You know, like, I mean, look, I don't think I'm talking out of school to say Paul McCartney was always a giant pothead.

Speaker 1 I don't know if that continues to this very day, but for a lot of, certainly the 70s, 60s, I think after they got into pot, he'd like me. He's like, you know, some people just really like pot.

Speaker 1 And like when you think about, oh, it was probably he was high. He just watched that movie, it became the song, you know.
I just think possibly.

Speaker 1 No, I don't think it was that way around, but who knows? Maybe it was. Well, no, that came after the song was written.
And I think he was talking to George Martin and saying he wanted something.

Speaker 1 And then it was like Psycho, you know, in the curtain went, ee, eee. I know exactly what you're talking about.
And it's on El Nor Rigby. And we were.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Psycho's another one that's slow to develop. Yeah.
Um and you know there are but to see this is what television has done to us.

Speaker 1 Television and well, not just television. I don't think it's mostly television.
That's partly what it is, but it's also, I think, even more the internet and social media. And I guess.

Speaker 1 I mean, the attention span, I've said this many times, of Americans baffles me. It's either seven seconds or two hours.
Yeah. Like I used to just do an hour.

Speaker 1 You know, it's really weird because Kubrick used to go above and beyond to make sure that every screen that played a Clockwork Orange,

Speaker 1 because I'm speaking from personal experience, is that he had a guy go into Cinema One on 3rd Avenue in New York and tell Rugoff, who owned it, to paint the surround to the screen matte black.

Speaker 1 Because?

Speaker 1 Because he wanted,

Speaker 1 he didn't want any distractions.

Speaker 1 He wanted it

Speaker 1 perfectly floating.

Speaker 1 Yeah, directors are like that, Martin Scorsese. But I'm laughing because...
Well, if they only knew it. How do we see it now?

Speaker 1 On our phones. Oh, yes.
I mean, look, I watch movies in the kitchen. I watch movies in the bathroom.

Speaker 1 When I really want to watch something, I watch it in my bed on a big screen and just really watch it.

Speaker 1 But not every movie makes the cutback. No, no.

Speaker 1 You know, sometimes,

Speaker 1 especially if I've seen one before. Do you vote for the Academy?

Speaker 1 I vote against it.

Speaker 1 Wherever they are, and whatever Academy they are, I think it's a joke they could be. But look, they send all the things, so you have to watch as many as you can.
Well,

Speaker 1 first of all, I'm not in the movie industry, so I don't.

Speaker 1 Well, you've done movies? I have done a long time ago, yes.

Speaker 1 And so, how many movies did you do?

Speaker 1 Let's see.

Speaker 1 There's some fake posters installed.

Speaker 1 Is that a... Where is that? Yeah, there's one in the bathroom.

Speaker 1 it was that was next to elvis with nixon oh yeah that's a great photograph yeah that is yeah i know um great oh i don't know it was the 80s um but uh when you were doing stand-up yeah absolutely yeah yeah yeah i mean that first decade of your career when you're doing whatever they're offering of course and and you're and you know you're young and you're having a good time and look at chevy chase regards no i mean it's like what i'm in the avocado jungle with the piranha women oh this

Speaker 1 is way better than working at Kinney's shoes oh yeah so

Speaker 1 you know I enjoyed it but I was never meant to be an actor I was always meant to almost do the exact opposite

Speaker 1 and I never would have gotten to well certainly not your level but even that I mean I could do comic acting and got parts but what is comic acting it's not really well like different like sitcom acting nothing too heavy but but it's really in the writing it's the you're still telling the truth.

Speaker 1 If they write something that's funny, then

Speaker 1 it's getting sitcoms.

Speaker 1 It's not as

Speaker 1 timing, yes.

Speaker 1 It's all timing. Well, I'm doing a comedy at the moment.
This is my fourth season. Right.
And

Speaker 1 called Son of a Critch, and I love it. I just love it.
It's a great show. Well,

Speaker 1 a lot of times great actors... do great with comedy because they play the reality of the situation.
If it's written well, that's enough to get the laugh. That's right.
And you're not trying.

Speaker 1 If it's written well. Right.
Because you're not trying to get the laugh, but if you play the reality, then you do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Again, this is better than what I was. I was just a guy who knew how to get a laugh, as a comic does.
Oh, yeah. So I could do sitcoms and like light comedy.
So somebody like, for instance,

Speaker 1 Einfeld and all that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's brilliantly written. Right.
Of course. But he was even worse than me.
I mean, he would fucking crack up in his own scenes, and you could see it on his face. Of course.

Speaker 1 Well, that's why we loved him. Yes, but part of the charm of it was this guy is like, I'm not even going to pretend to try to be an actor.
But what about Gary Shandling? Oh, I love him.

Speaker 1 Did you know him? Of course, very well. But how well did you know him? Very well.
He's been in this room before we were

Speaker 1 using him to film many times.

Speaker 1 He's a genius to me. And I only met him once and I adored him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Gary was a great guy. I mean, look,

Speaker 1 you could only get so close. Yeah, sure.
I guess a few other people got a little closer. But isn't that the same with you, though? No.
Same with me? No,

Speaker 1 not me.

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 1 I mean, I let lots of people in as far as you go. Now, women are always going to think there's a there's, I've said this many times, too.
They're always going to think there's another level.

Speaker 1 Like, just, I want more. It's like, no, honey, that's all there is to me.
I swear to God,

Speaker 1 you keep digging and you're not going to find anything. You're going to go one level down and two level.
It's still the same thing. And then there's public parking

Speaker 1 wow yeah okay i never get tired of that job yeah that's um

Speaker 1 hey i'll be at the mgm music hall at fenway boston massachusetts july 26th july 27th the toyota oakdale theater in wallingford connecticut and september 7th the cobb energy performing arts center in atlanta georgia and the 28th of september the orpheum in memphis tennessee and the 29th the taft theater in cincinnati oh milwaukee september 8th i was supposed to be there.

Speaker 1 The convention was there. There were plane problems.
I never made it. I'm so sorry.
But I will come back. I want to come back.
I will want to...

Speaker 1 I play the state so badly. So Milwaukee, forgive me for making you come out twice and take a shower twice and pick out a new shirt twice.
But September 8th, Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 I don't really want to give up wine. you know it's like why should you why should i it's what i said how much do you drink well i don't drink any.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've got nothing.

Speaker 1 Well, we would have given you whatever you want.

Speaker 1 I know, but I don't drink. So I thought you said you drank.
Well, this is just to finish the story is that the last person I was to see was a religious person.

Speaker 1 And I'm not really a religious kind of person. So I don't go in for, you know, organized religion.
I do believe in God. But, you know, so I met with this guy and I thought,

Speaker 1 nothing he's going to tell me, you know,

Speaker 1 because I really want to do why. I said, look, and he goes, if you drink alcohol, the chances are that you will be back doing your drug of choice, which is cocaine.

Speaker 1 Is that right? And I went, I don't think so. I really don't.
I know you say this. And

Speaker 1 I know what he means.

Speaker 1 This is what he said to me. This is what made such an impression on me.
He said, why take the chance? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's all.

Speaker 1 And it reverberated with me. And when I came out, and that's the, I never had another drink, so that's 42 years ago.
Oh, wow. And that's it.
Done. Can I offer you one?

Speaker 1 You can offer it, but I will not take it. Oh, that's a shame.
I love to leave people off the beat. This is all fake booze anyway for Christ.
Oh, yeah, totally. Take a swig.
Go ahead.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 42 years? What is this? Don't be such a

Speaker 1 trick for me. Don't be such a prick about it.
You know, 42 years. So what? You have a drink.
What's the worst that's going to happen?

Speaker 1 I get it. Enjoy your 80s.

Speaker 1 Come on, you pussy. Have a fucking drink.
I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it.
You can have a drink, Christ. Oh, God.
You'll do the drink every time.

Speaker 1 I'm fucking with you. Yeah, I know.
But it is interesting the way people think that there is always a gateway drug. That's a big thing.
That was always a big argument against marijuana. legalization.

Speaker 1 It's a gateway drug. Truly, for most kids, at least in our era, the gateway drug was beer.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 But the whole point is that you're going to do something, whether it's pot or beer or whatever it is, even coffee, you're probably going to do something in your life that tells your brain, oh, there's an alternative kind of way,

Speaker 1 wavelength that we can be on.

Speaker 1 And once you realize that, then you're going to try every drug because every drug is just good or bad pot to me. Now, maybe your drug is a different one, but every drug is just another

Speaker 1 variation of like I'm sober or I'm fucked up. Like for me, mostly

Speaker 1 pot, but like pot plus having a drink is also different. Yeah.
Oh yeah, very different. Yeah.
Yeah. One's up, one's down, right?

Speaker 1 A little bit. And together they make a beautiful combination.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm so happy for you. No, it's it's very Rogers and Happy.
But you know, look, in England, growing up,

Speaker 1 I mean, I lived in a pub and I loathed beer.

Speaker 1 Lived in a pub? My father ran a pub

Speaker 1 and a hotel. What, and you lived upstairs from the pub? Yes.
So you lived over a pub? Yeah, I went to

Speaker 1 sleep as a child,

Speaker 1 listening to sort of distant laughter and chinking of glasses. Right.
And I've never

Speaker 1 ever liked pubs ever since.

Speaker 1 And also, my father was an alcoholic. Oh, well, that'll do it.

Speaker 1 But you made it sound actually kind of soothing, the clinking of glasses and light laughter. We mean a bit like the sea.
Yeah, waves. You made it sound nice.
Lapping in Malibu. You made it sound nice.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, this is Ormskirk outside Liverpool.

Speaker 1 It wasn't very romantic. It could have been to the sound of people fighting and, you know.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, that was occasionally, too. And not loud music, right? It was.
Yeah, there was distant music. Distant, perfect.
But, you know um i was a kid so yeah um

Speaker 1 but and the whole thing of drugs was so alien you know you just didn't get much but the there wasn't much going on the only drugs that were happening were the occasional uh guys coming back uh from nepal Nepal?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And they would bring in, I knew these couple of rug guys, John and John John, just to confuse.
Where's John? John John.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, they'd put him in these rugs, you know, and they'd bring back hashish.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, you would crumble it and put it in a, with tobacco and smoke it. But I never liked that.
Did we tell the people where Nepal is in case they are people who have not studied the map?

Speaker 1 It's between China. and India, yeah.
Really between Tibet and India. Well, it's actually.
It's where Mount Everest is. Yes, well, it is indeed.
And it's a very beautiful country.

Speaker 1 You lived above a pub. Was it also a whorehouse? No.
Oh, no. Damn.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it did have

Speaker 1 a tap room where there was

Speaker 1 entertainment. Oh.
So there'd be very bad comics.

Speaker 1 Comics? At the pub? Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 1 I worked in bars.

Speaker 1 I've worked on with the story. I tell you, if you've done bars,

Speaker 1 you've had no stage. You talked the Beatles had a little riser.
Yeah. I don't

Speaker 1 saw. I remember, I can see the sawdust on my shoes.
Sawdust on the floor. Yeah.
Why did they even do that? Why is that? And it hits you in very good stead.

Speaker 1 Why was... Because there's nothing you can do after that that's ever going to be as bad as that.

Speaker 1 Oh, I did. I did work gigs of that.
Really? Yeah. Opening for a rock band when they were throwing things at you.
That's worse. Getting stuff thrown at you.
Oh, I'd love to have seen you do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I would have been throwing, of course.

Speaker 1 yeah music audiences do not want to hear and first the funny guy that is not what they no they want they wanted to see him

Speaker 1 yeah yeah that's cool i mean you know you're right it's great that you have that experience yeah oh gosh i wanted to do it again well i

Speaker 1 it was brought up in weekly rep where you had four plays in your mind at any one time. You know, you were playing a week, you were rehearsing the next week, you were

Speaker 1 trying to forget the one that you'd just done. Right.
And then you were trying to look ahead to see if you could just catch, and it was crazy.

Speaker 1 My hat is off to anybody who has to memorize, and that's singers too. Like,

Speaker 1 how do singers?

Speaker 1 Now they do. Most of the Beatles certainly didn't.
Oh, no. People thought.
Oh, they were amazing. How many songs that they covered was staggering.
And then all their own songs.

Speaker 1 And by the way, just because you wrote it doesn't mean to say you can remember it.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Sting told me that.
Yeah, of course. No, it comes like any other song.

Speaker 1 But I mean, the Beatles didn't actually, I mean, in their early repertoire, yes, they did do a lot of covers of other people's songs, but they only recorded 18.

Speaker 1 They recorded 18 covers on the first three albums. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Six on each of them.

Speaker 1 The first of the three albums, there was eight originals and six covers. And which is your favorite cover?

Speaker 1 I love that one, Anna.

Speaker 1 What? Oh, my God. What? I have a story about that.
Anna? Yes. It's a great record.
All right. So I

Speaker 1 get the stage, which is the actor's newspaper. I'm out of work.
I'm working as a messenger boy on Victoria Street in London.

Speaker 1 I look at the back of the stage and it says Arnold Rose Pop Tuition.

Speaker 1 And they named one, some uh a pop singer that is johnny layton ever heard of him anyway hey there wild wind johnny layton so i go to see this guy

Speaker 1 uh my aunt paid for it i said look i could do i could do you know do a beatles number or something i think i could if i got some i make a record i think i could make it so i went to see this guy and he goes oh you and what do you uh want to sing and i went well look i've got this beatles album and i'd like to do the song anna Oh, he goes, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Well, let me hear a bit of it. Let me just hear the scales.
And I'm like, oh,

Speaker 1 he went, oh, okay, okay. You're kind of,

Speaker 1 yeah, you're in tune. Yeah.
He goes, well, listen, I want you to do this. Get up on the stage.
He had a little stage.

Speaker 1 And he said, what I'm going to do is record you, and we're going to play the Beatles, but I'm going to cut their vocals and we'll just have them backing you.

Speaker 1 And I went, you can do that. He went, oh, yeah.
Yeah, because it's a great harmony. So yeah.

Speaker 1 So I start and

Speaker 1 do the whole thing. And he goes, wow, well, that's pretty good.
Now, next week, I want you to come back. We're going to cut a record.
And I want you to bring £150 to do that.

Speaker 1 I mean, I went, £150?

Speaker 1 I mean, that to me was like $10,000. You know, it was huge money in those days.
So I had to go to my aunt, you know, and take her out for a cup of tea and try and tap her for a little more money.

Speaker 1 So I said to myself, I was sharing a place with my sister and I went, you know, this guy thinks I'm a bit like John Lennon, you know. She goes, oh, really?

Speaker 1 Well, play it for me. And I got the reel to reel, played it.

Speaker 1 And she goes, wow, that is, that's great. Now played the original.
I went, oh, yeah, okay. Played the original.
And she went, there's no difference.

Speaker 1 I went, what? She goes, there's no difference.

Speaker 1 You are John Lennon. I mean, he didn't cut, he didn't cut the vocals.

Speaker 1 He goes, that's John Lennon. You think it's you?

Speaker 1 I went, well, yeah.

Speaker 1 She went, no, it's not. Do not go back and do not give him £150.

Speaker 1 I went, oh.

Speaker 1 So that's the end of my pop career.

Speaker 1 I don't get get it. Jesus Christ.
I don't get it.

Speaker 1 You don't get it? No, you.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. I think I made that clear.
Not to me. Okay.

Speaker 1 What's not clear? You recorded this. I went to the guy.

Speaker 1 Let me do it. It sounded just like John Lennon.
Yes?

Speaker 1 He had me stand and told me that he was cutting the vocals. I get it.
When he wasn't. Oh.
So he lied to me.

Speaker 1 And I thought because I was a young wannabe

Speaker 1 and completely naive. So it was a stupid.
It was a scam. I really thought it was me.
It was a scam. It was a scam.
Well, once again, I got to say, stupid.

Speaker 1 Wow. Come on, come on, man.
You've hit me twice. I never got you dying.
What can I say?

Speaker 1 I mean, because John Lennon's voice is so distinctive. And how could it? I mean, I can

Speaker 1 hear it. I know, but I can hear it in my head.
And

Speaker 1 oh, it's. You come and me, girl,

Speaker 1 to set you free, girl.

Speaker 1 Go with him. It's a beautiful song.
And it's a cover, but I think that's a great song. You know what I mean? And it's beautiful.
You know what this is a great cover? Mr. Moonlight?

Speaker 1 That's great. But the best has to be the best.
What? We've missed.

Speaker 1 The absolute best is John Lennon at his genius best, Twist and Shouts. Yes.
Yes. You're right.
You're right.

Speaker 1 Every time you hear that song, which is a million times

Speaker 1 you cannot help, but.

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, you think of, I do anyway, the fact that they cut that whole album in one day. Of course.
It was their return. But we didn't know that.
It was their, no, of course not.

Speaker 1 It was their repertoire.

Speaker 1 And he purposely sang it last because his voice would have been true. Exactly.
But the fact that the voice is a little shredded is what gives it it

Speaker 1 genius. It just does.

Speaker 1 It's just, it's one of my favorite.

Speaker 1 I remember in the old days of making mixtapes on cassettes, I remember when I made one as a Christmas gift one year because I couldn't afford anything more, a mixtape called Singing.

Speaker 1 And it was just great vocal performances. And I think that was probably the first one.
And I think Mr. Moonlight was on there too, because that's another one.

Speaker 1 But Twist and Shape. Yes, you're right.
You're right. I mean, John, that is one of the greatest performances

Speaker 1 of a rock and roll. I mean, he had the greatest rock and roll voice.
He really did. He really did.
I mean,

Speaker 1 Paul had a beautiful voice. Yes.
Well, the thing about Paul was, it was amazing, that Paul could sing either or absolutely. He could do the raw, you know, Little Richard.

Speaker 1 I mean, I mean, he had a, I don't think, I'm not sure about the voice now. I think.

Speaker 1 If you didn't know much about the Beatles, like kids, you know, you can't blame them. They didn't live through it like we did.

Speaker 1 But if you, and they, but they just know the basic reputation. And you said to them, which Beatle do you think sang and wrote, Why Don't We Do It in the Road?

Speaker 1 They would say, Oh, of course, John Lennon. I mean, it's a rebellious kind of song.
No, no, but it's not. It's not.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I mean, Paul McCartney could do that. Oh, darling, you know, he was still.
That's a beautiful song. But, you know,

Speaker 1 I love songs like like Girl. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Girl is a beautiful song. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Beautiful, beautiful song.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, honestly, you can't. Literally hundreds.

Speaker 1 Especially when you add in the... I mean, hundreds.

Speaker 1 If you add in the, in the... I think the genius of Paul, besides the fact that he was obviously a great songwriter, but the genius of him.

Speaker 1 is that John would, I don't think, done half the stuff he did. Of course.
If Paul wasn't producing them, moving them,

Speaker 1 whipping them into shape.

Speaker 1 That's by John's own admission. I think he said every time the phone went, it was

Speaker 1 time to make a new album. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, John Lennon was definitely the guiding spirit of the early Beatles and the foundation of the band. And then halfway through, it switched up, which was kind of poetic justice.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I would love to get Paul McCartney here just to like talk only about the post-Beatles period, because I feel like

Speaker 1 we all know about the Beatles and how great they were. I mean, the Hamburgs.
But I feel like I know that period just as well.

Speaker 1 Like all the great, just even in this century, and a lot of the rock heroes of my youth have disappointed in this century.

Speaker 1 Not him, not every single song, but like you could put together a really great compilation. And I saw this video of some guy tech still believing, oh my God, that Paul McCartney was replaced.

Speaker 1 You know, people love their conspiracy theories in 1960. Oh, they're like, Elvis is not dead.

Speaker 1 And I would like to tell them, like, okay, for this to be true, it would mean that the guy who replaced Paul McCartney would have had to come up also with that solo career. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because he's got amazing records that he made all through the decades. And of course, once you get a little older and the audience moves on, they don't sample them as much.

Speaker 1 Oh, I mean, Flowers in the Dirt is absolutely a Beatles album. I mean, it's every bit like one in it.
And I mean, there's

Speaker 1 my favorite, though.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 the one with

Speaker 1 what about George Harrison's? Yeah,

Speaker 1 less material, and John had way less. John, Paul just lived longer, but he was also more prolific.
I mean, All Things Must Pass is a bad thing.

Speaker 1 He did another one after that. Brilliant.
That is one of the great double albums of all time. It's a triple album, actually.
Is it? All Things Must Pass is a triple album.

Speaker 1 And then he did concert for Ballads. My favorite is Plastic Ono Band.
Boom. That's it.
Well, that's Imagine. Oh, my absolute.
Oh, the album. I thought you meant the actual band.
It is.

Speaker 1 That's the, that's what the album's called. You're right.

Speaker 1 It is the absolute greatest John Lennon stuff. I don't think so, but

Speaker 1 I do like it. I mean, that has God, right? On it? Yeah, that's a God is a concept by which

Speaker 1 we measure our pain. Measure our pain.
I'll say it again. Yes.
And then the end. Because it rhymes.

Speaker 1 It's the three parts. It's that thing.
God is a concept by which we measure our pain. That one.
And then it's a very good thing. I don't believe in, remember? I don't believe in Beatles.

Speaker 1 I don't believe in Dylan. I don't believe in Elvis.
No, Zennerman. Zimmerman.

Speaker 1 He goes through this whole thing. Just believe in me, Yoko and me.
Brilliant. And that's reality.
The dream is over.

Speaker 1 It's great because, well, it's great because he's telling the audience, the dream is over.

Speaker 1 What can you do?

Speaker 1 It's because the Beatles split. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I don't think it's the greatest song ever.

Speaker 1 Or the one. But it is great.
But in context of

Speaker 1 where

Speaker 1 he was, the band was, what happened to them, and where everything was at, it was.

Speaker 1 I mean, it was. No, I think.

Speaker 1 Look, I'm the biggest John Lennon fan. There's a picture of him right over there.
But he also was a little full of shit about some stuff. Like,

Speaker 1 he wasn't the working class. There's a song on that album called Working Class Hero.
Oh, it's a great song.

Speaker 1 And he wrote it in the back of his role. But he wasn't

Speaker 1 working class hero, something to be. All right, that was good.
I've got to give you a pound on that. All right, I got to go back to my day job.
Yeah, I got to pay.

Speaker 1 Hey, listen, can I tell you one thing?

Speaker 1 I want to mention that I have a movie coming out. It's a Western

Speaker 1 called Last Train to Fortune. A Western.
And Beckett McDowell did the music.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 my other two boys are in it. Wow.
And it's a brilliant performance from James Paxton. And I wanted to mention that because it's dear to my heart.
I love the picture. And thank you.

Speaker 1 I always say there's one thing. We've been talking a long time, haven't we? I do apologize.
There's one thing we need more of. It's Nepo Babies.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm kidding. Give me a more.
Yes, I had a. Give me this fucking box.
I had a.

Speaker 1 I had a good time. Great to meet you.
Bill.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 I feel like I do know you were a little cry. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
Thanks, buddy. Thank you.

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Speaker 7 RSV often begins like a cold or the flu, but can quickly spread to your baby's lungs. Ask your doctor about preventative antibodies for your baby this season and visit ProtectAgainstrsv.com.

Speaker 7 The information presented is for general educational purposes only. Please ask your healthcare provider about any questions regarding your health or your baby's health.

Speaker 1 Be our guest at Disney's enchanting musical, Beauty and the Beast. Fill your heart with joy and Disney magic.
Brought to life like never before.

Speaker 1 Coming to the Orpheum Theater July 14th through August 9th. Tickets at BroadwaysF.com.