Malcolm McDowell | Club Random with Bill Maher

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My father ran a pub. What, and you lived upstairs from the pub? Yes, and I've never liked pubs ever since.
He's the lead singer of ACDC. One of the funniest men I've ever met.
Let's get him over here. Welcome.
Hey. Are you there? I'm here.
Don't get up. Oh, well, actually, I won't.
After all the entertainment you've given me,

you deserve to stay seated.

Let me serve you.

How are you?

As a devoted fan.

Nice to see you.

I wrote that in my book.

I'm not here to plug my book,

although I guess it's in my hand.

I should.

Let me see.

It's been on the bestseller list for seven weeks.

Yeah, man.

Got to be number one.

Can we see it?

I'm giving it to you. I'm the bestsellerist for seven weeks.
Yeah, man. Got to be number one.
Can we see it? I'm giving it to you.

Yes.

Oh, it's my copy.

Christ, you're handsome.

We'll finish your thought, you know.

Well, you didn't inscribe it, but hey.

You look good for your...

This is it.

What are you, early 50s now, Malcolm?

Yeah, early 50s, sure.

Wouldn't that be nice? I'm 81. 81? You're the same age as Biden.
Yeah. You seem very un-Biden-esque.
Yeah, well, you know, I'm just working my ass off, so. Really? I don't think I've ever been offered so much stuff as I am right now.
Now, I put it down to the fact that maybe my competition, I'm outgrowing them and outliving them. Also, you're iconic.
Yeah, I've been iconic. Right, for a while.
Since 1970, supposedly, when I did Clockwork Orange. Right.
I think that was 72, but I take it. We made it in 70.
Really? It opened in 71. Really? I believe.
I thought it was 72 but i 70 we made it in 70 really it opened in 71 really i believe i thought it was 72 but you could anyway long time ago okay well you may be right now right um yeah maybe i'll i never think about in terms of dates you know it's um well you don't become iconic right away but the character does but now are. But again, that's good because when you're 81, you have to be iconic.
And then you can work. But you go through phases, you know.
Yes, absolutely. And that's the phase.
And it's great that you were able to work enough along the way and do enough great work and was respected enough that you then become iconic. because, you know, when they remake Titanic and it's a guy who throws the necklace

off the edge of the bridge, they're going to need some 95-year-old

to fucking bite the bullet.

Yeah.

Instead of Gloria Stewart?

Yeah, I'm just saying everything has to be redone with different identities.

So let's do Titanic. Yeah.
And it's the chick who saves the guy. Yeah.
Let's have that happen. All right? Why can't that happen? Like J-Lo or something? Yes.
Why can't it be the woman who disappears under the icy waters of the Atlantic while the guy is up on the board.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

So what's your... Drug of choice?

No, what's your favorite movie of the last couple of years?

That's a great question.

Let's go through them because I forget movies.

So do I.

So do I.

No, I like see them, but it's like I don't like...

I know I've enjoyed some.

I'll tell you what I enjoyed a lot I thought was great was Marriage Story. Well, I didn't see it.
So that ends that conversation. Do you know which one I'm talking about? No.
Oh, wait a minute. It was with Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson.
Oh, okay. It really should be called Divorce Story.
But this is up for Oscars next time, right? No, it was like two years ago. Jesus, well, for some reason I didn't see it.
I don't know why, because I'm supposed to. It was Netflix, I think.
Oh, okay. I think it was, I might get this name wrong, Noah Birnbach.
I think he's married to Greta Gerwig, who did Barbie. Oh, yeah.
I think it was him, but I could be wrong. I'm giving credit to somebody who just completely had nothing to do with this movie.
But he's a good filmmaker, and this was a good film. I mean, it was just, there is a scene in there that is as harrowing and I think as true to life, although I'd never been married and divorced, as I can imagine, where it starts out, they're married and they're happy, and then it unravels.
And it's the process of a divorce and how at the beginning, the couple always wants to do it civilly, but then the lawyers get involved. Oh, it sounds good.
It's very good. Yeah.
And, you know, it destroys, in a way, both their lives. He has to move out to California.
He has a little apartment. He wanted to be in New York.
He was a director. And she comes over, and it's like a year after their party.
And it's a true story, right? Based on a true story. Well, it's based on a million true stories, is my guess.
But I'm the small apartment in California. I bet you that's thousands of- That kind of rings true.
With lots of people, that they are- Yeah, you're looking at one. Well, divorce economically can downsize you in a big way.
At least half. Right.
Why did that happen to you? Oh, yeah. Really? But I think, honestly, my divorce was as civilized as you could possibly get it.
And because there were children involved, and, you know, you don't go into tirades when, you know, you try to keep all that. Is it too personal to ask if...
No, you know, it's with Mary Steenburgen. Oh.
And we are great friends. Did I know that, that you were married to Mary Steenburgen? I probably did at some point.
But you forgot. Because you are getting old.
I may have misfiled it, Malcolm. Or maybe just disc full, disc full.
Hey. I do not have room.
Adam, why would you even care about something like that? Right. It's no big deal.
Well, I've always thought it's very odd what you remember. It seems to be completely arbitrary that certain, such inconsequential moments from so many years ago stick out in your mind.
And you try to think, was there something of significance to that? And it's like, no. I just, for some reason, remembered that.
And then whole swaths of time will go by. And important things.
Like, ask me if I can remember losing my virginity. I remember where I was, who I was with.
All the details are gone. Oh, you don't remember, you know.

Well, I know my dick was out.

It must have been fairly stiff.

I've got the broad strokes.

Yeah.

And I know it was bad.

So you've never been married, but you've had significant relationships.

Very significant.

Yeah, yeah.

So I get the drill.

Yeah, sure.

And anyway, so what happens is the scene I'm talking about, and it's worth the price of admission just for this. It's about a 10-minute scene.
But the way it builds so perfectly artfully, it's about a year after they're apart. So they're making it work.
They've got a co-parent. They've got a kid.
Sure. So she comes over, and it's like, hey, how you doing? It's that level.
but you can tell underneath there's so much suppressed of course and the way that comes out because at the first it's just like hey could you take the kids next weekend i've got a thing and oh no i would but i can't because you know my new boyfriend and i are doing this oh but we said we would try so it starts civilly and it just builds to i want to fucking fucking, you know, this rage of, it just had to come out at some point. And the way it builds to that is, and the performances, I have to say, that stuck in my mind.
That was like, that was cinema and drama and artistic acting at its very best, I thought. Well, I think in terms of brilliance all around,

I don't think I ever saw a better film,

certainly not an American film, better than Fargo.

That is, by far, for me, the greatest American film made 30 years ago now.

Oh, like from the 90s, yeah.

The original with Frances McDormand.

Yeah.

I mean, I liked it. Why was it that great?

I just thought it was

the style of the film,

the horrendous things going on,

a bit like Tarantino before

Tarantino was doing it.

You know, the... The Coen

brothers are brilliant.

They are. They've done so many.

Miller's Crossing?

Yeah, geniuses. Absolutely.
Oh, so many. Miller's Crossing? Yeah, geniuses.

Absolutely.

Oh, so many.

Yeah.

And also can...

Was Albert Finney in that one?

Which, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Albert Finney and...

What an actor.

My favorite actor.

Gabriel Byrne.

Albert Finney.

I saw him on screen in Liverpool at the Odeon Lime Street, 1950s. 50? 58 or something.
58, somewhere like that. You are old.
And I watched this. No, maybe it was later.
It's got to be 60s. I watched it anyway.
It was a movie called Saturday Night and Sunday Morning, directed by Carol Rice, great director. And I saw this.
I guess I was 17 or something like that. I just said, I'm going to do that.
Really? That's when you got the book? Yes. That's when I knew I was going to be.
So Albert Finney is somebody you owe a great debt to. Yes.
And weirdly enough, who produced my first movie, which was called If, directed by the great Lindsay Anderson? Hitler. How did you know? Well, you wanted me to guess.
I was like, oh, Albert Finney. Oh, Albert Finney, damn.
It was Memorial Enterprises. I always guess Hitler for everything.
Yeah. Because one of these times, you know.
You'll get it right. And who invented the Volkswagen? Hitler.
Yeah. Wow.
So. Yeah.
So. What about Shoot the Moon? It was a beautiful film.
That's Albert Finney. Do you know who wrote that? Who wrote that? Bo Goldman.
Hitler? Gorbals.

Bo Goldman?

Who's that?

Bo Goldman.

One of the greats.

Never heard of him.

Come on.

Bo Goldman?

Bo Goldman wrote.

I don't remember that name.

He won two Academy Awards for Best Script.

For what?

Cuckoo's Nest.

Cuckoo's Nest?

Yes.

Just rewatched it.

And?

Scent of a Woman.

Scent of a Woman won Best Screenplay? Yes. Sorry, no, it didn't.
He didn't win for that. He won for Melvin and Howard.
But he also wrote Scent of a Woman. I remember the name Melvin and Howard.
Well, look, it was about, you know what it was about. Gay men? Melvin and Howard? Gosh, yeah, sometimes, Bill.
What? No, I mean. What's it about? It was about Howard Hughes being picked up.
Okay, I did see it. In a truck.
In the desert. Yes, I got it.
And Melvin was played by. Oh.
I don't remember, but I can see him. Paula Matt.
Okay. And my ex, Mary, won an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress.
In that movie? Yeah. What did she play? She played his girlfriend.
Which one? Who was a stripper. Howard Hughes' girlfriend? No.
Melvin. Melvin.
Because I would say, Howard Hughes' girlfriend was like. Yeah.
Well, he had the pick. Well, but some of them were, I mean, I loved when they made the movie, the Scorsese movie about him.
Oh, yeah. Kate Beckinsale played, was it Ava Gardner? But she was, first of all, she was perfect for it.
She was sexy, gorgeous, of course. And also, like, she was.
Charismatic. Charismatic.
But also, she had the right, she played it perfectly when she comes into that scene. And he's, like, cowering in the bathroom.
And he's, like, he tells her to look at the sink. Does that look clean to you? And she's like, not completely, Howard, but we all do what we can.
You know, she's just like, he's a five-year-old. It's just amazing the way how a person can be so brilliant in some ways.
Yeah. And then so retardedly, emotionally retarded in others.
Well, Melvin and Howard was brilliantly directed by Jonathan Demme, one of his earlier movies. I think it was his third or fourth, third, maybe.
And it was a brilliant script by Bo Goldman. And I'm hoping to make a Bo Goldman script that I have, and he wanted me to make it.
Oh. And he wrote it.
Is he still with it? I've still got it. No.
Is he? He passed away not long ago. So he won't be doing the rewrites.
No, there are no rewrites. Perfect.
If it's a Bo Goldman script, you don't touch it. You make it work.
So he wrote Shoot the Moon. I believe he did.
Okay. Now, I may be wrong, but I think he did.
That was Albert, wasn't it? Yes, Albert. And didn't it take place in Napa Valley or something like that? No, no, no.
England. England.
So what was the story? The story is, it's funny, it came up right after we were talking about divorce story. It would be a perfect companion film.
Albert Finney. Oh, I'm getting it mixed up.
Okay, he's married to, I think, Diane Keaton. Oh.
And it's in England. He's a professor.
And he's having an affair with, I believe, Karen Allen. Oh, really? Yes.
And so it's just the dilapidation of that marriage. It's divorce.
Now, I think it is the same film. And I have it in my imagination as it was somewhere in Napa Valley.

No, no, no.

I watched it fairly recently.

Oh, okay.

It's England.

He's English.

Oh, okay.

I think the wife is not.

I think she's American.

They're playing her. Right, right.

But there's a great scene where she's in the bathtub crying and singing the Beatles.

If I fell in love with you, would you promise to be true? Wow, that's a great song. Great song.
Well. So you're a Beatles nut anyway, aren't you? You just love them.
I do love them. And I can always.
You can always find know, if you have something that I don't know about them, I'd love to hear. Oh, I'm sure you know everything.
I mean, listen, I was just dragged by a girlfriend to the cavern, 1962, I guess. Oh, my.
And there they were. And, you know, the cabin was no bigger than this.

Right.

With a vaulted ceiling.

Right.

And they were on a stage, which was really a platform.

Right.

This big.

Right.

It was nine inches or something. Yeah, they were amongst the people.

They were, just slightly up.

And the place was jammed always.

And to dance, because you could not stop moving to their singing and their playing, was called the Liverpool Stomp, which was literally you would hop on one foot to the next because you couldn't move around. That was it.
And I remember very distinctly being completely taken with John Lennon and his persona on stage. Of course, it was before Ringo and all that, but they were called the Silver Beetles.
And I don't remember them ever singing anything of their own, but then they may have done, and I didn't really know what it was.

Right.

But, of course, all Little Richard and Chuck Berry,

you know, that's Domino, and a lot of Buddy Holly.

Well, I certainly don't have that in my memory,

to see them at the cavern.

No.

That's amazing. So I went back a lot with this same girl, Patricia Langshaw, her name.
And you thought that they, just seeing them, you thought they were going to go places? No. No? Really? Oh, Jesus.
Do you think? I mean. No? I just thought they were a fantastic together band.
Then why wouldn't you think that they were going to? Because there were a lot of bands. Right.
I'm not really a concert. But they didn't stick out? Well, they stick out because of who they became.
Well, you're right. There were a lot of bands.
Yeah. Just the way in Jesus's time, there were a lot of new religions.
Yeah, yeah. And one of them was the Betamax, and one of them was- That's right, that's right.
One of them was MySpace, and one of them was Facebook. You know, every pub had a live band.
And the Beatles were voted by the Mersey Beat, which was the local- Yes, the Mersey River, which is Liverpool, right? Yeah. And so the Mersey Beat was this rag, this little newspaper about the scene.
Right. And they were voted the second most popular band on Merseyside, the first being a jazz group called the Mersey Sippies.
Oh, Jesus. Well, I know, well, there was like bands like Jerry and the Pacemakers.
Yeah. In fact.
Rory Storm and the Hurricane. Well, that was Ringo's band, right.
No, it wasn't. It was Rory Storm's band.
No, but Ringo was the drummer. Yeah, yeah.
And he was obviously, they knew amongst themselves, he was by far the best drummer, you know, working in Liverpool. But there was a book written about the Beatles called 150 Glimpses of the Beatles a couple of years ago.
I did the book review for it in the New York Times book review. Yeah.
And one of the quibbles... You obviously loved it.
I loved it, but I also had quibbles with it. Oh, yeah.
And one of my quibbles was I could have done with 99 or 100 glimpses of the Beatles. 50 of them were not interesting to me.
But you can't always get what you want. Oh, wait, that's the stone.
Yeah. Okay.
So one of the quibbles was that they did a chapter. It was a chapter, very brief chapters.
And one of them was like, let's look at an alternative, what would happen if there was an alternative universe where Jerry and the Pacemakers became the big group coming out of Liverpool, and the Beatles were just an afterthought. And I said, that's incredibly stupid because there's a reason why the Beatles became what they did.

Because they have 200 great songs and Jerry and the Pacemakers have two. Right.
Well, did they write? He didn't write any of them. Jerry? He didn't write any of them.
He was writing the coattails of the Pacemaker. What he did, his claim to fame, for me,

is that they always play You'll Never Walk Alone before. He was riding the coattails of the pacemaker.
What he did, his claim to fame for me,

is that they always play You'll Never Walk Alone

before Liverpool kick off.

And 60,000 scousers rise up and sing You'll Never Walk Alone.

You know what the irony is, Malcolm?

Tell me.

Jerry now is on a pacemaker.

It's very sad. Oh, God.
And I just say... This is what happens when you sit down with a comedian.
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But you've known a lot of comedians, right? Yeah, I do. I've known a lot, absolutely.
Well, you know, Liverpool was a great place. A lot of comedians, English comedians, come out of Liverpool a lot.
Like who? Ken Dodd. Never heard of him.
Oh, my God. Well, Ken Dodd, if you see these old pictures of the...
Who is he? Newsreels of the Beatles, Ken Dodd's there with great hair, you know, up here. The Doddy Diddy Man and all that bullshit.
I know they were friends with Peter Sellers and the, was it the Goons? Is that the? Yeah, the Goons were a radio show. Okay.
That was Peter Sellers. Right.
Dudley Moore? No, no, that's way after. He came way after.
OK, but American audiences know Dudley Moore. Yeah, well, Dudley Moore's a different time phase.
Peter Sellers was... Right, but I mean, Peter Sellers and Dudley Moore came from that school, kind of like here in LA.
No, they didn't. They didn't.
You're wrong. I'm sorry to tell you that.
No, tell me. No, Dudley Moore wasn't a stand-up comedian.
No, but they were, it wasn't Dudley Moore. But Peter was a vaudevillian.
He was in some troupe like that. Yes, behind the fringe.
Behind the fringe. Beyond the fringe, actually.
And I would say, that's a little like our second city. He did tell me a funny story, actually, of Dudley.
And he was a very sweet guy.

But he said, you know, Malcolm, in the matinee,

we're doing Beyond the Fringe.

And there were two, we came out, you know,

with dark glasses, and they were following these two ladies.

And they go, oh, it's a very lovely show, Behind the Fridge.

So when they did the second one, it was called Behind the Fridge. Wow.
Yeah. Okay, so they came out of that one.
I mean, Dudley Moore was as big of. Peter Cook.
Peter Cook, right. Peter Cook was the.
But Dudley Moore was a huge movie star in this country. Yeah.
Arthur, 10. 10.

He had a 10-year run.

Well, you know, that was interesting because he wasn't cast in that movie.

It was George Segal supposed to do it.

Supposed to do Arthur?

Yeah.

No, 10.

10.

10.

I could see George Segal in that.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

But Dudley Moore was just, he was charming. For some reason, I don't know why, but he couldn't do it at the last second.
And I think, wasn't it Blake Edwards that directed it? I think it was. But I'm just saying, American audiences just fell in love with this sort of club-footed, diminutive, homunculus Because he was fun.
He was very erudite. And he also could play a hell of a mean piano.
Yes. But he was also self-deprecating.
And he was just different and charming. And you know, in England, he became part of a duo with Peter Cook in a show called Not Only But Also.
Okay, I've heard of that. Yeah.
And so they'd be sitting there in the pub, you know, doing exactly what we're doing now. You go, you know, well, you've been a Mallybooly bum bum and you've pulled lobs out of Jay Mansfield's arse.
Is that it? You go, oh, yeah, yeah. I've been watching Tottenham this week.
Oh, yeah. All that, you know.
It's so funny, English humor. I know.
To an American, or at least this American. It's just, it's so.
You don't get it? You don't like it? No, no, no. It's fucking brilliant.
It's just, it goes from, I would characterize it by saying, it goes from, like, the best to the worst. I mean, when it's great, Monty Python.
I mean, the Beatles themselves were very funny. Yeah.
But lots of it. And then there's stuff that, yeah, you just go, Benny Hill.
Benny Hill, that's very broad. But that goes back to Shakespeare, where there would be a very highbrow joke followed by a fart joke.
Yeah, yeah. That's totally true, actually.
Yeah. So some of it I love, yeah.
But there was an incredible television sitcom called Hancock's Half Hour. And it starred this comedian called Tony Hancock.
And he was always fucking everything up. And it was Hancock's Half Hour.
And it was actually groundbreaking and quite brilliant. In black and white.
And we all watched it. And he pulled in like 20 million viewers a week.
God knows they couldn't get that now. When did you move to America? In 1979.
79, that far back. Yeah.
And became a citizen right away? No. Never? No, I am a citizen now.
Because it's the 4th of July tomorrow, mister, and I don't want any bullsh It's the 4th of July tomorrow. I know.
And you're in America now. I don't want any bullshit about the mother country or the queen or any of that.
The queen, excuse me. She passed away a year ago.
I know. It's the king now.
Well, whatever. Well, in my view, the king usually is a queen.
Well, he's not a queen. No, no.
I like Prince Charles. Always did.
Yeah, he's a good guy. He's a very good guy.
Yes, I mean, he is what he is. They all are.
But for being in that royal family and being the hand he was dealt with the mother who would never go away. And he was up on real issues.
He was a big environmentalist. Yeah, he was.
And he was dear to his heart. And he loved good, interesting architecture and bemoaned some of these awful buildings.
I think the selfless thing to do would be for someone to have the guts to completely renounce the monarchy and say, we should just retire this. It's antiquated.
But it also, I get it, serves a purpose. Well, wait a minute.
Would you say that about the Declaration of Independence? Let's forget it. Oh, let's not even go there.
No, because there are two completely different categories. No, they're not, actually.
They are. No, I'll tell you why.
The Declaration of Independence is a collection of ideas. Yes, but so is the monarchy.
And the monarchy's been around a lot longer than America itself. Yeah.
It goes back thousands years. And you can keep a corpse in the attic if you want.
No, but look, they've actually made it work. And the monarchy, of course, has no political clout and really doesn't mean much, but it means a lot to the populace.
Because it's outside of party political politics. I see the point that there is an argument for it.
Yeah. And I can make that argument.
I can make, by the way, arguments against two. It's a waste of fucking money.
I agree, because it's part of both. But what I will not countenance is that it's anything like the Declaration of Independence.
Again, one is a set of ideas. One provides an emotional solace for a population and a rallying point.
And that is important. Maybe we should have a royal family, other than the Kardashians, of course, who could, like, take all the gossip because that's the thing.
The royal family, like, takes all the gossip. Not that there isn't gossip with the regular politicians, too.
But, like, they take a lot of that. And there is an argument for, no, you need someone to just do the ceremonial stuff.
Well, you do, actually. And then free up the pride.
And don't forget, it's only in times of real trouble and stress, like a world war, for instance, like a blitz, for instance, when the royal family's true worth comes into being. Right.
It's that rallying, as you said, this optimism about... Although in World War II, I mean, I'm sure the royal family did their part, but it was Winston Churchill who rallied the people and inspired the people.
Now, Winston Churchill would probably disagree with you. Oh, please.
Well, of course, he was a great orator. He was a great man, the greatest man of that time.
But they also knew he was the actual leader. So during a time of crisis, it's nice to know that the guy who's the actual head of the government...
Yes, he's the head of the government. And he would bow his head when King George VI came into the room.
No, I get it that you English have a fucking hard on for these old crones and people and these inbreds from centuries ago. And I get it.
I've had this with so many people, Sharon Osbourne, Piers Morgan, that you all take umbrage. And I'm not trying to insult.
Well, no, no. Listen, I'll tell you this, Bill.
The biggest fans of the royal family are the American public. You're so right.
Which blows my mind. What the hell? Which speaks to the point that maybe we need one because they yearn for it.
They yearn for it so much. You're right.
Well, we'll lend you ours. You don't have to do anything.
Right. You don't even have to pay for it.
Well, Trump will take over, never give up the post, and then we'll have it. So I don't know what we're worrying about.
This problem is going to take care of itself. Yeah.
And then he'll pass the crown on to Don Jr. That'll be great.
And then it'll—or Ivanka. So why even get rid of George III? I mean, you've got your own monarch now.
Yeah, Ivanka would be a good queen. And she's actually very nice.
And she's not dumb at all. So maybe that would certainly be better than him.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Well.
She could do a Nixon to China kind of thing and just be, you know, she travels in like liberal circles, like she knows lots of people from. She grew up, you know, in New York City.
And then, of course, it'll go to Barron. I don't know if that's a great thing.
I don't know much about him. He kind of looks like the kid from The Omen.
I don't know much about him, you know, except that he's very tall. No, I don't either.
He's very tall. Very tall.
Good-looking kid. Yeah, very.
But, you know, there's something about the male gene in the Trump family that I'm a little distrustful of, considering the father. Ooh, the father, Fred, was...
Fred was, you know, I'm not going to say he's a Nazi. I'm going to say adjacent.
Mm-hmm. I just, you know, and not...
Definitely not going to get the NAACP award of the year at any time posthumously. And then, of course, there's Trump himself.
Well, it stems from the father, doesn't it? I mean, isn't that the theme of so much? Yes. It's your experience, isn't it? I think it goes back to the Greeks, very much so.
What is the Oedipus complex? Yeah. The Oedipus complex based...
Well, the Greeks invented drama, of course. Did you ever do a Greek play like that? No, I've been in a play called Andromarch, but it was part...
I was a very young actor, maybe 20, and I was asked if I wanted to be a soldier in the world theatre season. And the French were coming over with this Greek play called Andromarque.
And it starred Jean-Louis Barlow and his wife. And I can't remember who she was, but she was the most famous actress in France.
And I had to stand there, you know, and listen to this in French. It was quite amusing, actually.
And I was told one performance that as soon as the curtain comes down, you're to leave the stage immediately. And I went, well, why? Don't ask, just leave.
And I thought, I'm going to hang around a bit. And of course, I came from behind the curtain and stood, and suddenly I stood to attention.
Her Majesty walked in. Really? Yeah.
And I met Her Majesty. Wow.
And they were like, who is this? Don't you have to, like, memorize a whole list of things that you're not supposed to? Just mom. No, like, you can't turn your back on her, and you, there's a whole list of, like, do's and don'ts.
She's really cool. She really was.
Really? Yeah. It wasn't her.
She, the one that really demanded the rigmarole of all that was Princess Margaret. Fred Armisen used to do a genius sketch on SNL where it was the queen in there, and you see them with, like, the press or something are in their room, or some people from outside, and they're talking in their upper crust accents, and they're acting like the queen and king as we know.
And as soon as the strangers leave the room, they've got completely, you know, what's called the scouse? Is that the accent? Oh, I love it. And they're like truck driving.
By the way, did you see those two little girls from Burnley going, I've just been asked for ice cream, nine pounds. Nine pounds for two ice creams.
She was like this big. Nine pounds.
I mean, oh, well, I don't care if he does hear me. And they marched off.
It's hilarious. Is this like a TikTok? No, it was.
I don't know whether it was TikTok, one of those things. It was going the rounds.
Do you use TikTok? No. What about Instagram? Instagram, yeah.
You do? Yeah. You scroll through? Occasionally.
My wife does a lot of it. I say, can we post something? Please, can we post this? And she goes, I'll find you a great picture or photograph.
Instagram seems to think that the only thing I'm interested in seeing is dogs doing goofy things that make me laugh.

Well, I love that too.

That's because that is the only thing I'm interested in.

Is that the only thing that makes you laugh?

Well, cats are funny too.

Thank God I am a person of discipline

because I absolutely could look at dogs doing goofy shit.

But that's YouTube.

That's YouTube.

No, no, no.

That's Instagram.

That's all I watch, by the way.

I can just scroll.

And it's mostly what it is.

I guess it's also this podcast and my show and that.

Wow.

Well, your education is somewhat limited then.

That's true.

Well, I mean, I'm not going to say that I'm technologically savvy.

No, I'm not. I do my best'm technologically savvy.
No, I'm not.

I do my best.

I'm not.

But, you know, when you're not native to us and to this thing,

as people in our generations are not, it's like always doing it left-handed.

I know.

And they do not make it easy.

They purposely.

I know.

And you go, well, where's this?

My kids go, it's on a story, on Instagram story. No, I just mean like they're kind.
What do you mean story? I see the picture. Where's the story? They're constantly changing shit.
Yeah, are they? Like how things work in the computer. Oh, yeah, yeah.
You know, and on your phone and shit. And it's like suddenly something doesn't work streaming.
And it's like you know passwords and it's just it's just

i know but isn't it amazing though really that on this tiny phone yeah i know it is you your whole

life oh it is it's it's i mean it's just right we we take for granted we immediately get used to

all these amazing until you lose it well and then you're going i can't remember anybody's number

you know you bitch about the stuff that doesn't work and the truth is that all of it is glitchy Thank you. do all these amazing things.
Until you lose it. Well, right.
And then you're going, I can't remember anybody's number.

But then, you know, you bitch about the stuff that doesn't work.

And the truth is that all of it is glitchy.

But that's just where we are.

Someday, I guess they'll make it un-glitchy.

Or, you know, a lot of it is that there's so many predators

on the internet of all sites.

I'm talking about.

Oh, by the way, I'm in this movie called Thelma

with June Squibb, who is the lead in the movie. She was 93.
And it's about this very thing. She's being scammed.
Right. And gets talked into giving 10,000 bucks.
No, Apple is like infuriating to deal with. But I only blame them half for half of it because they do really try hard.
I'll give them that. Who, Apple? To protect your privacy.
Yeah. So therefore, this is like so many firewalls to try to keep out the fucking leeches out there who, I mean, because it's so easy, hackers and so forth.
Oh, I know. to make money.
You don't even have to scam people half the time. You can just steal it by writing a code.
You know what they steal most of it is from the government. And the government, of course.
They steal everything from the government. Oh, of course, because they have the worst possible.
Because they're completely inept. Because they're the government, yeah.
I mean, this whole COVID payments and everything. People made billions just by filling in forms.
I mean, it's staggering. There's a piece about it in that book.
Is there? Oh, okay. You'll see it.
Absolutely. Is that mine to take home? Absolutely.
Wow. Completely free, Malcolm.
Scam America is what we call scam-america. Yeah.
It's so easy to scam America.

But, you know, you would be good in, you know,

all these Greek plays.

They always need, because the Greeks were not ageist,

there's always the Nestor character, like in the Odyssey.

Nestor, the old wise person.

I've seen Anthony Hopkins play it.

Yeah, yeah.

And all the, like in Achilles and all these things.

That's-

By the way, do you know Brian Johnson?

No.

Who is that?

He should do, he should come to this club.

Really?

Right.

He's the lead singer of ACDC.

Oh, ACDC.

One of the funniest men I've ever met.

Let's get him over here.

Right now.

He is brilliant.

I'm told.

I was going to do a musical of Helen of Troy. It was called Troy.
Oh, Helen. One of the other.
I can't remember now. A musical of Helen of Troy.
Yes. That's interesting.
And he goes, Malcolm, you're fucking Zeus, man. You're going to be flying over the fucking stage, and there's going to be sparks coming out of your ass.
I went, wow, that sounds pretty good. He wrote me this great song, It's Good to Be God.
Wait, but why would you need to be flying first to do it? Because it's Zeus flying above it. Oh, you're Zeus? Yeah.
See, that's what I'm saying is this is the age of playing gods and like or, you know, like superhero movies always need like the old dude who's in the fortress of birth or whatever and he tells the muscle bound. Well, the best one was Alec Guinness, no? What? Alec Guinness.
Alec Guinness. Brando did it in Superman.

Yeah. There's always the old dude who gives

wisdom to the guy that

the girls want to fuck. That's right.

That's right. Well, hey, you know,

you go through the stages

and you end up... Right.
Seven Ages

of Man. That's right.
That's where you end

up. I mean...
And embrace

it and love it. That's what I try to do.
That's a great attitude. I only half believe you.
I believe the embrace part. Love it? I totally.
I would not. I don't have to do it.
Do what? Act. Oh, I thought you meant live.
No, but acting is, I love, I love it still as much as I think I did way back when. Right.
Well, you know why? Because you get better at it. You do.
I'm saying this just as a fan of you and acting in general. It's so obvious to me that when I'm watching a movie and there's somebody in the scene who's in their 20s or 30s

and they're acting with someone who's in their 50s or 60s,

it's like watching a split screen.

It just is.

I mean, not that the people who are younger are bad.

It's just you get better.

You just get, because you get better as a person

and you're more comfortable in your skin.

You don't really realize it. Of course not.
It's an evolution. Yeah.
But it's true. I mean, you asked me great movies I've seen.
Okay, I'm going to tell you about one I just saw. What? It was fine, but we will not be filing under the category of great.
Okay. Okay.
So it was on Netflix. I can't remember the name of it.
And by the way, it was the second movie of a genre which I will only call Mom Fucks a Rockstar because this is the second one I've seen. Anne Hathaway just did one where Mom fucks the rockstar.
Oh, yeah, I've read about that. What's it called? It's called Mom Fucks a Rock Star.
No, it's not. But it should be.
And because, like, the daughter. But I feel like that one.
I love Anne Hathaway, though. Me too.
And she's very attractive. Yeah, I think she's a good actress.
Really interesting. She's playing someone with a teenage daughter who she takes to a concert.
She's got a teenage daughter? Well, in the movie, and stumbles backstage looking for her daughter or the bathroom or something and meets the rock star. Cut to they're fucking now.
Who does she meet? Who's the rock star? I don't remember his name. He's new.
He was very good in the part. He's an actor, though.
Well, yeah. Not a rock star.
No, no, no. He's playing a rock star.
It's a rock star. I don't remember his name.
He's new. He was very good in the part.
I mean, they all. He's an actor, though.
Well, yeah. Not a rock star.
No, no, no. He's playing a rock star.
It's a movie. No, I know.
So then, now, there's one, Nicole Kidman. Oh, that's the other one.
And Zac Efron. That's right.
That's the one I read about. OK.
And again, Mom fucks the, well, he's a movie star. And I'm just wondering why, like, this genre has reared its head at this moment.
It just struck me. Because people of a certain age, the ladies, they need these parts.
So, hey, so let's put her in the, okay, so let's... Oh, I see.
You're saying it's star-driven. Yeah, of course.
You think most parts are that way? No. A lot aren't.
The good ones aren't. The really good ones are organic stories.
But William Goldman, you're familiar, he wrote the book. Yes, of course.
Unlike Bo Goldman, that's a totally different goal. Right.
But another great screenwriter, William Goldman.

Oh, wow.

One of the greats, yeah.

Right.

And probably wrote the best book about screenwriting, Adventures in the Screenplay.

Yeah, brilliant.

All his, and, you know.

Didn't he do?

Butch Cassidy.

Network.

No, that's Paddy Chayefsky.

Chayefsky, that's right.

That's right, I think.

But he said, Goldman said, like, if you want to get, you know, first of all, you're writing a script.

Thank you. No, that's Paddy Chayefsky.
Chayefsky, that's right. That's right, I think.
But he said, Goldman said, like, if you want to get, you know, first of all, you're writing a script, you might as well just throw it in the garbage if you can't get a star attached to it. So you have to have that in mind.
Yeah. So he said, and you want to get the star to do it, write him a great opening speech when he first walks in.
Or make him look fucking, it's not rocket science, to get on the good side of movie people. Make him look really interesting.
They're all egomaniacs. Why are we in this business? Yeah.
It's all about, Mom, look at me. I'm doing it.
Yeah. Look.
Yeah. You know, so.
Oh, yeah. And.
Sort of true. I mean, yeah, it's funny.
That's totally different from my experience, which was, you know, with a very great director. I just got plucked out of a crowd.
Kubrick. No.
Oh. Lindsay Anderson.
Oh, yeah. Who's that? Wow.
I thought you were a cinephile. I really thought you were...
Well, I guess not to your degree. No, I mean, look, you should know who Lindsay Anderson is.
Well, he didn't make that many films, but they were great ones. He made a film called This Sporting Life with Richard Harris.
Richard Harris' best performance, I think, ever on a movie. And he did my first film, If, Oh, Lucky Man, which I wrote with him.
I know that. David Sherwood.
Right. And he did a lot of theater in London.
In 30 years, he would have a play always in production. Well, I'll put it on the top of my to-do list to catch up with this dude.
Oh, come on now. Have you ever seen If? May I just ask that question? If.
It doesn't matter if you haven't. I must not have.
Oh, you would love the film. I'm telling you now, knowing you as I do, not very well, but I know that you appreciate really good.
Good. I'm always looking for, trust me.
It's a masterpiece. I'll tell you.
I want to watch the third version of Mom Fucks the Rockstar. Well, if you can put up with that, it's pretty amazing.
No, this is an amazing movie that was written in. It's funny.
I'm always saying to myself, I'm going to write out a list of movies that I need to catch up to. Because, I mean, there are thousands of movies that are worthy of seeing.
And no, I think I've seen a lot of them. No, not all of them.
So make a list. And then when I get into bed at night, instead of, like, just looking at whatever.
Right, flicking through. Whatever they're putting out in the buffet happened to be a lot of MomFucks the Rockstar lately.
Yeah. I could just dial up the one that I wrote on the list that's worthy.
Well, you. And then I never do it.
You've seen movies like, I don't know, Maltese Falcon. Of course.
Yeah. Yes.
Go ahead. Keep testing me.
I'll see if I redeem myself. That's a great movie.
Anything with Jimmy Cagney, of course. Not anything.
Yankee Doodle Dandy. Don't remember it if I saw it.
White Heat. Yankee Doodle Dandy.
If I saw it, I don't remember. Jimmy Cagney.
No, that's before. Well.
No, you would love this. You would love this movie.
Okay. I mean, come on, sometimes these movies are so old that this is.
Is that creaky? The style is so different. Yes, it's true.
It only survives really as a historical piece. Yes, there's moments in it that are great.
I totally disagree with you. Well, yeah.

Because there's great artistry.

Yeah.

You may,

the styles may change.

Of course,

styles change.

You're right.

But look,

you're going to say that

about John Ford's movies?

You know what?

You're right.

I'm not that much

of a cinephile

and I don't want to be.

You know,

I don't want to be a snob

about what's entertaining me.

I just want to be entertained.

Well, yeah.

Just suck my dick and go home. I don't want to have to.
And a cinephile is somebody that's not that does a critique. They either love it or they don't, you know.
But you have to open yourself up to things that are not just, you know, the normal fit. Oh, I am.
I love it. Because they're pretty much just.
I'm always looking to be. Green screen, you know.
Oh, yeah. No, no.
Trust me, there are nights when I'm very entertained by what they're offering. And then there's nights where I really need that list.
And I'm going to start it now. Well, I'm at the point where I'm sort of just doing things that are really outside my supposed range and just for the hell have a go, you know.
Middle enough, I don't care. Have you always used the same criteria for deciding whether to do a script or not? Or has that changed? No, that's never really changed.
Never. I read it.

I know within 10 pages whether I'm going to do it or not.

So you never did anything just for the money?

Oh, yeah.

Of course.

What do you think?

I'm a professional actor, for Christ's sake.

Yeah.

What are they offering?

Jesus.

OK, yeah.

Well, I can make that work.

Like what?

I'm talking.

What did you do just for the money?

I did this thing called, what was it called? It was this French comedy thing. It was actually very successful in France.
They tried to remake it here in America, and it was, what was it called? Christ, I've had a complete block because I just hated it so much. Jean Reno was in it.
It was called, it'll come to me. But, you know, I've, names, I'm losing it with names a lot.
As long as you remembered the money. The money was, I couldn't believe it.
And that was lovely. What did you get for Caligula? Ah, you know, I didn't get paid that much.
I think by the time... Oh, I'm guessing you didn't.
No, I... That's why I'm asking.
I'm guessing it's shockingly low. Or it would be...
No, it wasn't shockingly low. I think I got as an upfront pay was $300,000.
But it went over and over and I got another $200,000 but it was out of the country so it was tax free. I remember seeing it in a theater in Washington D.C.
And it's not on your top 10 list? I was making the movie DC Cab at the time. Oh really? And I had a day off and I went, yeah.
And I was making the movie DC Cab at the time. Oh, really? And I had a day off, and I went, yeah.
And I was, like, practically masturbating before I got into the theater. I just thought this was going to be, and it was.
I mean, there was lots of whacking material to take. Yeah.
But, you know, look. Well, you know, they've re-edited the whole thing.
It's about to open.

I have to see that again.

No, but listen, this is...

What they did was amazing because...

Gucci only controlled the movie.

Stuck in 40, 50 minutes of hardcore porn.

Right.

Dropped the whole last hour of the movie

so it made no sense whatsoever. He could care less.
He had his A-list actors, and he had the pornography, and he had all the... And he also, he four-walled it, which means he bought out the cinema.
He didn't have a distribution deal. He did it himself.
So instead of charging, I think the average price of a ticket was $3 then, he charged

$7.

And there were lines around the block, you know.

But it was absolutely a piece of absolute garbage.

But it could have been good if they had edited differently, you're saying?

You actually made a good movie that just got cut out?

Yes.

Wow.

And so what happened?

What's the theme?

Well, it's about the rise and fall of this emperor. Yeah, but what's the theme? Like, what, I mean, it's...
Well, you know, he was supposed to be mad. And when I, and Gore Vidal wrote the script, the original script.
Yeah, I'm saying. Which was terrible, by the way.
Really? Yeah. Gore Vidal's script was terrible? Yes.
Yes. Okay.
And I had lots of discussions with him and said, Gore, we can't shoot this. You're going to have to do some rewrites.
And he was like, I don't need to do rewrites. What did you find lacking in it? It just didn't, it was just a sort of tableau, one tableau after the other without connecting or flowing or have any reason for it.
Well, that's what I'm asking you. What is the theme? I mean, if you ask me what's the theme of Hamlet, I would say when Laurence Olivier made it, he put a tag at the beginning that said, this is the story of a man who could not make up his mind.

Okay, so now I know what his tragic flaw was. What was that for Caligula? Caligula was thrust into a position of absolute power.
He had absolute power over life and death. nothing like the sort of power, even the sort of Putin power.
And at a very young age, and he, listen, went through Tiberius's, all the money that Tiberius had made in 14 years of reign. He went through it in 18 months, the whole lot.
And he was very popular at Caligula because he was always giving the Roman citizens five gold pieces. And they loved him.
You know, why not? It's like getting a big bonus at the end. But why was he like that? Because he was a Nepo man? Well, the way I played it, I didn't want to play him as a madman.
Because you can't spend two and a half hours just being mad. Right.
I mean, there has to be some. So I...
What is this arc? My arc was that he was one of the original anarchists and was bringing down the whole Roman Empire from the top.

He wanted to do that? Yes. But he didn't.
He saw all the corruption and all the... I thought he was the corruption.
He's part of it, but he saw all the corruption in all the things around him, the Senate, the this, the that.

And he railed against it and brought it down from the top. And that's the way I chose to do it, whether it was right or wrong.
Well, he certainly didn't bring it down because it was, I mean. No, he was murdered, of course.
Yeah. And the Roman Empire thrived for over another century.
I mean, the Pax Romana did not end until 180 AD. That's right.
You know, so, okay. Well.
But it was absolutely beautifully shot, beautifully designed by Fellini's designer, Danilo Donati. He did the costumes as well.
And huge sets, massive. i walk onto these sets and go so you couldn't do any small acting you had to move right around the sets because otherwise you you you couldn't be seen right you'd have to i mean i was running everywhere i mean it was just ridiculous but i knew that's the only way to do it with those sets.
Movie making is so ridiculous in a way. But it's fun.
Oh, I'm sure. Of course.
I know. I did it.
It's a wonderful sleight of hand. It is an odd way to live, though, because you're so intensely interwoven with a group of people for three or six or nine months yeah like because movies family all day and all night yeah so you really only do the movie and sleep so the people that you're with are there it's like it's like your left hand you know you're just and then it all go and then you all go away and it just ends like in a day and it's's very weird.
Yes. It's just psychologically very weird.
It's sort of very, yeah. Well, it's really strange, too, performance-wise.
For instance, in the theater, if you want to have the audience look at you in close-up in the theater so that you become very still and don't move hardly at all. Right.
Then the audience come in. Sure.
If you want them to move out to a mid-shot, you do this, and suddenly it's to here. Right.
If you want a long shot, you whole you move around the set and so you you're literally editing your own performance in the theatre you can't do that but you can help the editor by saying something and then looking over and they're going what the fuck is he looking at? And so, and then they'll come back. Right.
You know, so you've got to know what's important in a scene. that's a considerate actor.
You're thinking along with the director so that you're giving him the choices. But you're not saying anything.
No, no, you don't have to say it. You don't want to intimidate.
Well, I'm sure that's one reason why you never stop working is you know people want to work with people who make work easy yeah as opposed to many actors who have won't come out of the trailer well i mean and many other things i haven't i haven't worked with many of those well i mean there's many videos of blow-ups on sets. There's the famous one with David O.
Russell. There's a famous one with Kristen Bale.
But I don't know if people realize that you could have one from every movie that was ever made. Movie sets are, by their nature, tense places.
And a lot of that tension is just right below the surface. And actors use that as their instrument, of course.
Oh, it's brilliant to have edge. But it also can just, I mean, I've had it done at me on a sitcom one.
Oh, tell me. What happened? And I'll tell you a few.
What happened? Well, I was on a sitcom, and one of the actors was on heroin. So he didn't show up a lot.
But the show was sort of like centered around him. So there was a lot of tension when, you know, we couldn't shoot and, you know, he wasn't there.
And then one of the other actors, because they couldn't really take it out on him because he was the star of the show, kind of like exploded at me. Like, you know, so I...
Okay. Yeah, but we've all had...
Yeah. ...been on sets where somebody exploded.
Yeah. It just is sort of built into the system.
Yeah. I mean, I don't kind of mind that.
I mean, I don't do a lot of that. No, I'm going to say you, but...
No, but... You've seen it.
Yeah. I mean, sometimes don't kind of mind that.
I don't do a lot of that. No, I'm not saying you, but you've seen it.
Yeah. I mean, sometimes I felt like it, but I know that it tends to get people.
Yes. An actor is like having trouble getting the scene right or he's having trouble remembering the lines.
Yeah. Oh, my God.
And then somebody like moves in his eyeline. You'll blame that.
Hey, how the hell am I supposed to do that? Get out of my eye. Sorry, what was the line? Yeah, come on.
Let me tell you, people in your eyeline is legitimately a fuck-up. See, I love it.
I don't mind at all. People in your eyeline? I don't mind at all because I'm not seeing them.
Wow. I'm not focusing on them.

Well.

I'm somewhere else.

So, you know.

No.

I really like when I'm, like, doing my monologue on my show.

Like, don't have people scurrying around.

Well, no. Like with cameras and stuff.

Scurrying around.

Well, sometimes, you know, people want to, like.

I mean, God, the director's got to be in the airline.

I mean, somebody's got to be in the airline. The director's in the booth.
There's a television. Oh, sometimes, you know, people want to like.
I mean, God, the director's got to be in the airline. I mean, somebody's got to be in the airline.

Director's in the booth.

It's television.

Oh, in the television.

Okay.

In the booth.

Wow.

Well, they don't.

Hi, Bill Maher.

I don't know if we've met.

How are you?

Nice to meet you.

Oh, that's television.

That's old school stuff.

Oh, yeah.

Now it's all film.

They don't.

Oh, no.

You know, they make them flat now.

Oh, no.

Yeah. Oh, my God.
god yeah i've had a few just a couple of i mean you got tv late in england you got tv late in england i remember being in england in the 80s and there was still only like two channels oh i mean it was now it's TV, but. Yeah, they have all the same stuff now, satellite stuff.

And stupid stuff.

Yeah.

Like, I used to be able to think, oh.

I like some stupid stuff.

I do, too.

But, like, I used to think of Britain, and maybe it still is to a degree, like, more

erudite, more mature.

No.

No.

No.

No, I think they, we.

Once in a while. America Americanized a lot of the world.
And I'm not saying that as a compliment. You know? It's not bad, though.
Some of it is. Listen, it gave me great hope as a young man to see American movies.
To see Westerns, Saturday morning, Newsreel. Why did you want to move here? I didn't particularly want to move here, but...
But you did. I fell in love and had a child.
You moved for the wife? Yeah, of course. For Mary? Yeah.
But then you stayed? Well, when we split up, I wasn't going to be, you know, an absentee father. Right.
So I really didn't have a choice, you know, about it. And I didn't mind.
I kind of had to start again, but it was fine. It was OK.
And I still worked in Italy. Are you Miss England? Still, after all these years? There's a lot I love about my home country, of course.
And I feel very patriotic about it in some respects. But do I miss it? No.
But I'm not the kind of person that looks back. Me neither.
I never look at my old stuff. I never look at the work.
In fact, I very rarely see any of it. Because I'm always thinking about the next thing.
And people go, what's your favorite part? You have to do that. And I always go, my next part.
Next, exactly. That's it.
Same way. And I'm really excited because I'm going to do this film of Death in Venice with Davey Porter.
And I'm really, he wrote it, he's directing it. But it's really interesting because, Adam, did you see the Visconti movie? No, I'm not a cinephile.
Oh, fuck you. You are such a prick.
I'm the prick? Yeah, come on, come on. No, but I think this is going to be great, but it's a little egg-head-y.
I think you should do it. No, no, no, it's not egg-head-y.
Because it's Thomas Mann? I knew it was Thomas Mann. Okay.
Maybe I'm a bibliophile. But no, but I'm just saying it's not a popcorn movie.
I'm just saying don't be snobby if Aquaman needs an old dude to teach him the ways of the sea or something. Like, if Superman.
Are you my agent? Now you are. I'm a great.
You're advising. I'm a manager.
I would be a great manager. I always have good ideas for people on this show.
I'm just telling you. OK.
If your agent isn't working on this right now, every superhero needs this show. I'm just telling you.
Okay. This is, if your agent isn't working on this right now, every superhero needs this mentor, this wise mentor.
And it helps if the person playing the part also is seen by the audience as sort of this eminence of many years who we've come to respect and like, and he's iconic. So you kind of want to blend those.
That's why I'm sure Brando got a fortune, and I'm sure it took him one day to shoot that part. I'm Jor-El, and I'm going to send you to Earth.
And you know he was reading it off the guy's head, first of all. But who cares? No, I know.
It's what you see. Oh, of course.
That's why I love Marlon. Many reasons.
I mean, Marlon Brando gave some of probably the greatest performances ever on Cellular. But the reason I love him more than any of the others is because he did it while not taking it seriously at all.
I mean, imagine writing it. You think he didn't take, I mean, on the waterfront seriously? Oh, on the waterfront.
Back then, yes. I'm talking about, like, even as a- That's him absolutely at his top of his power.
Well, I would say that was The Godfather, but, you know, he's great in everything. Oh, my God, no.
No, The Godfather.

It's a great movie, of course, and he's brilliant in it,

but the range he had in On the Waterfront is staggering,

and the vulnerability and the, just look at the wonderful vulnerability in that taxi cab scene,

the famous scene with Steiger.

I could have won somebody.

There you go, you see.

I was fed up a bum.

And then you're telling me you're not a cinephile, right? Is that it? Oh, I've seen that one. It's been a while.
I mean, Auella Kazan, of course. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I watched it.
I'm sure I watched it more than once. I'm sure I watched it once when I was young and, oh, boy, on the waterfront.
And then I probably watched it one other time. And I think I thought, yeah, it's good.
But like a lot of those, it's like, yeah, it's kind of of its era. First of all, just the pacing is often slower than we have come to.
Our brains have gotten used to something a little quicker. I mean, Hitchcock is pain-takingly slow.
It's very hard to get through a Hitchcock movie. Very little happens.
It's very... I turned one down.
It's very... Really? Yeah.
Stupidly. I mean, I should have done it.
It was a terrible script, and I didn't like the film at all, but I should have done it just to work with him. You know, I bet you I know which one it was.
Okay, tell me. Well, I remember seeing in the theater.
I was 16. It was 72, I believe.
Yeah. May have been his last movie.
No, it wasn't the last, but close to it. What was it called? I think it was Frenzy.
Frenzy? Maybe. And it was...
It took place in Covent Garden. It was in color, which I remember thinking was new for Hitch.
And the one great scene in it was that there was a body in a truck full of potatoes. And this hand comes out of all these potatoes.
The body's buried under it, and when it goes around a corner, a lot of potatoes slide, and you see a hand. Yeah.
And that's pretty cool. Yeah, I mean, Hitch, I feel like, was really made for compilation reels.
Like when they show great moments, and it's like, oh, the hand coming out, or the shower thing, and then you watch the movie, and it's like, wow, there's just few and far between. You know, we were listening.
It's just very subtle. My sons and I, on the way down here, were listening to Eleanor Rigby.
Yeah. And it's such a great song.
Oh. But you know that stabbing, stabbing, stabbing violin that's in that.
Yes. You know where the inspiration for that is Hitchcock.
Hmm. Psycho.
Really? The stabbing scene in the shower. Yeah, of course.
Right. And how do we? That's in that.
Exactly. I believe you, but how do we know this? I think Paul talked about it.
Oh, we did. If it wasn't Paul, it was George Martin.
No, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.
And it makes sense. Yeah.
Isn't it weird, though, how these things cross over and become, you know... Or the inspiration.
I mean... I know.
It's just amazing. You know, like, I mean, look, I don't think I'm talking out of school to say Paul McCartney was always a giant pothead.
I don't know if that continues to this very day. But for a lot of, certainly the 70s, 60s, I think, after they got into pot, he'd like me.
He's like, you know, some people just really like pot. Yeah.
And like when you think about, oh, he was high he just watched that movie it became the song you know i just think no i don't think it was that way around but who knows maybe it was well no that came after the song was written and i think he was talking to george martin and saying he wanted something and and then it was like psycho you in the ee, ee, ee, ee. I know exactly what you're talking about.
And it's on Eleanor Rigby. And we were.
Yeah. Psycho's another one that's slow to develop.
Yeah. And, you know, there are.
But to see, this is what television has done to us. Television, well, not just television.
I don't think it's mostly television. That's partly what it is, but it's also, I think, even more the internet and social media.
I guess, yeah. I mean, the attention span, I've said this many times, of Americans baffles me.
It's either seven seconds or two hours. Yeah.
Like, I used to just do an hour.

You know, it's really weird because Kubrick used to go above and beyond to make sure that every screen that played A Clockwork Orange, because I'm speaking from personal experience, is that he had a guy go into Cinema One on 3rd Avenue in New York and tell Rugov, who owned it, to paint the surround-to-the-screen matte black. Because? Because he wanted...
He didn't want any distractions. Right.
He wanted it perfectly floating. Yeah, directors will like that.
Martin Scorsese would like that. But I'm laughing because...
Well, if they only knew our phones? Yes. I mean, look, I watch movies in the kitchen.
I watch movies in the bathroom. Yeah, yeah.
You know, when I really want to watch something, I watch it in my bed on a big screen and just really watch it. Yeah.
But not every movie makes the cut that way. No, no, no.
Of course not. You know, sometimes, especially if I've seen one before.

Do you vote for the Academy?

I vote against it.

Wherever they are and whatever Academy they are,

I think it's a joke they give.

But look, they send all the things,

so you have to watch as many as you can.

Well, first of all, I'm not in the movie industry,

so I don't... Well, you've done movies?

I have done a long time ago, yes. So how many movies did you do? Let's see.
There's some fake posters. Oh, I know.
Yeah, there's one in the bathroom. Next to Elvis with Nixon.
Oh, yeah. That's a great photograph.
Yeah, that is. Yeah, I know.
It's great. Oh, I don't know.
It was the 80s. When you were doing stand-up? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
I mean, that first decade of your career when you're doing whatever they're offering. Of course.
And you're young and you're having a good time. Yeah, look at Chevy Chase, for God's sake.
No, I mean, it's like, what? I'm in the avocado jungle with the piranha women? Oh, this is way better than working at Kenny's Shoes. Oh, yeah.
So I enjoyed it. But I was never meant to be an actor.
I was always meant to almost do the exact opposite. And I never would have gotten to, well, certainly not your level, but even that, I mean, I could do comic acting and got parts.
But what is comic acting? It's not really any different. Well, like sitcom acting, nothing too heavy.
But it's really in the writing. You're still telling the truth.
If they write something that's funny, then. It's getting, it's getting.
Sitcoms, it's not as long. Timing and all.
Timing, yes. It's all timing.
Well, I'm doing a comedy at the moment. Right.
This is my fourth season. Right.
And called Son of a Critch, and I love it. I just love it.
It's a great show. Well, a lot of times, great actors do great with comedy because they play the reality of the situation.
it's written well that's enough to get the laugh that's right you're not trying it's written well right because you're not trying to get the laugh but if you play the reality then you do yeah again this is better than what i was i was just a guy who knew how to get a laugh as a comic does oh yeah so i yeah. So I could do sitcoms and light comedy.
So somebody like, for instance, Seinfeld and all that. Yeah.
But that's brilliantly written, of course. But he was even worse than me.
I mean, he would fucking crack up in his own scenes, and you could see it on his face. Of course.
Well, that's why we loved him. Yes, but part of the charm of it was this guy is like, I'm not even going to pretend to try to be an actor.
But what about Gary Shandling? Oh, I loved him. Did you know him? Of course, very well.
But how well did you know him? Very well. He's been in this room before we were using him to film many times.
Was he a genius to me? And I only met him once, and I adored him. Yeah, Gary was a great guy.
I mean, look, you could only get so close. Yeah, sure.
I guess a few other people got a little closer. But isn't that the same with you, though? No.
Same with me? No. Really? Not me.
Oh, no. I mean, I let lots of people in as far as you go.
Now, women are always going to think, I've said this many times, too, they're always going to think there's another level. Like, just, I want, it's like, no, honey, that's all there is to me, I swear to God.
You keep digging and you're not going to find anything. You're going to go one level down and two level, it's still the same thing, and then there's public parking.
Wow, yeah, okay. I never get tired of that joke.
Yeah, that's good. Hey, I'll be at the MGM Music Hall at Fenway, Boston, Massachusetts, July 26th.
July 27th, the Toyota Oakdale Theater in Wallingford, Connecticut. And September 7th, the Cobb Energy Performing Arts Center in Atlanta, Georgia.
And the 28th of September, the Orpheum in Memphis, Tennessee. And the 29th, the Taft Theater in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Milwaukee, September 8th. I was supposed to be there.

The convention was there.

There were plane problems.

I never made it.

I'm so sorry.

But I will come back.

I want to come back.

I want to play the stage so badly.

So Milwaukee, forgive me for making you come out twice and take a shower twice and pick out a new shirt twice, but September 8th, Milwaukee. I don't really want to give up wine, you know.
Why should you? Why should I? It's what I said. How much do you drink? Well, I don't drink any.
Twice. I mean, I've got nothing.
We would have given you whatever you want. I know, but I don't drink.
I thought you said you drank water. Well, just to finish this story, is that the last person I was to see was a religious person.
I'm not really a religious kind of person, so I don't go in for organized religion. I do believe in God.
So I met with this guy, and I thought, nothing he's going to tell me, you know, because I really want to do why. I said, look, and he goes, if you drink alcohol, the chances are that you will be back doing your drug of choice, which is cocaine.
Is that right? And I went, I don't think so. I really don't.
I know you say this.

I know what he means.

This is what he said to me.

This is what made such an impression on me.

He said, why take the chance?

Yeah.

That's all.

And it reverberated with me.

And when I came out, and I never had another drink, so that's 42 years ago.

Oh, wow.

And that's it.

Done.

Can I offer you one? You can offer it, but I will not take it. Oh, that's a shame.
I love to lead people off the beat. This is all fake booze anyway, for Christ's sake.
Oh, yeah, totally. Take a swig.
Go ahead. So what? 42 years.
What is this? Don't be such a prick. What is this, a trick? Don't be such a prick about it.
42 years. So what? You have a drink.
What's the worst that's going to happen? Yeah, I could. Enjoy your 80s.
Come on, you pussy. Have a fucking drink with me.
I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it.
Fucking have a drink. Christ.
Oh, God. You do the drinking.
I'm talking with you. I know.
But it is interesting the way people think that there is always a gateway drug. That's a big thing.
That was always a big argument against marijuana legalization. It's a gateway drug.
Truly, for most kids, at least in our era, the gateway drug was beer. Yeah, that's right.
But the whole point is that you're going to do something, whether it's pot or beer or whatever it is, even coffee. You're probably going to do something in your life that tells your brain, oh, there's an alternative kind of way, wavelength, that we can be on.
And once you realize that, then you're going to try every drug. Because every drug is just good or bad pot to me.
Now, maybe your drug is a different one. But every drug is just another variation of like, I'm sober or I'm fucked up.
Like for me, mostly pot. But like pot plus having a drink is also different.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Very different. Yeah.
Yeah. One's up, one's down, right? A little bit.
And together they make a beautiful combination. Okay.
Well, I'm so happy for you. No, it's very Rogers and Hammerstein.
But you know, look, in England growing up, I mean, I lived in a pub. And I loathed beer.
Lived in a pub? My father ran a pub. Is that right? And a hotel.
What, and you lived upstairs from the pub? Yes. So you lived over a pub as a child? Yeah, I went to sleep as a child, listening to sort of distant laughter and chinking of glasses.
Right. And I've never ever liked pubs ever since.
And also my father was an alcoholic. Oh, well, that'll do it.
But you made it sound actually kind of soothing, the clinking of glasses and light laughter. What do you mean, a bit like the sea waves lapping in Malibu or something? You made it sound nice.
Yeah, well, this was Ormskirk outside Liverpool. It wasn't very romantic.
It could have been to the sound of people fighting and, you know. Oh, well, that was occasionally too.
And not loud music, right? Yeah, there was distant music. Distant, perfect.
But, you know, I was a kid, so. Yeah.
And the whole thing of drugs was so alien. You know, you just didn't get much.
There wasn't much going on. The only drugs that were happening was the occasional guys coming back from Nepal.
Nepal, wow. And they would bring in, I knew these couple of rug guys, John and John John, just to confuse.
Where's John? John John. Oh, yeah, they'd put them in these rugs, you know, and they'd bring back hashish.
And, you know, you would crumble it and put it in a, with tobacco and smoke it, but I never liked that much. Should we tell the people where Nepal is, in case they are people who have not studied the map? It's between China and India? India, yeah.
Really, between Tibet and India? Well, it's actually... It's where Mount Everest is.
Yes, well, it is indeed. And it's a very beautiful country.
So you lived above a pub. Was it also a whorehouse? No.
Oh. No.
Damn. Because Richard Pryor lived above.
But it did have a tap room where there was entertainment. Oh.
So there'd be very bad comics. Comics? At the pub? Yeah.
Wow. I worked in bars.
It's tough. I've worked on with no stage.
I tell you, if you've done bars and you've had... Yes, with no stage.
You talked, the Beatles had a little riser. Yeah, nothing.
I can see the sawdust on my shoes. Sawdust on the floor.
Yeah. Why did they even do that? And it held you in very good stead.
Why was... Because there's nothing you can do after that that's ever going to be as bad as that.
Oh, I did. I did worse gigs than that.
Really? Yeah. Opening for a rock band when they were throwing things at you.
That's worse. Getting stuff thrown at you.
Oh, I'd love to have seen you do that. Yeah.
I would have been throwing, of course. Yeah.
Music audiences do not want to hear. And first, the funny guy.
That is not what they, no. They wanted to see him.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's cool. I mean, you know, you're right.
It's great that you have that experience. Yeah.
Oh, God, yeah. I wanted to do it again.
Well, it was brought up in weekly rep, where you had four plays in your mind at any one time. You know, you were playing a week.
You were rehearsing the next week. You were trying to forget the one that you'd just done.
Right. And then you were trying to look ahead to see if you could just catch.
And it was crazy. My hat is off to anybody who has to memorize.
And that's singers, too. Yeah.
Like, how do singers? They have an old little. Now they do.
Most of the Beatles certainly didn't. Oh, no.
People. Oh, they were amazing.
How many songs that they covered was staggering, and then all their own songs. And by the way, just because you wrote it doesn't mean to say you can remember it.
Exactly. Sting told me that.
Yeah, of course. No.
Yeah. It comes like any other song.

But I mean, the Beatles didn't actually, I mean,

in their early repertoire, yes, they did do a lot of covers of other people's songs.

But they only recorded 18.

They recorded 18 covers on the first three albums.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Six on each of them.

The first of the three albums, there was eight originals

and six covers.

And which is your favorite cover? I love that one, Anna. What? Oh, my God.
What? I have a story about that. Anna? Yes.
It's a great record. All right.
So I get the stage, which is the actor's newspaper. I'm out of work.
I'm working as a messenger boy on Victoria Street in London. I look at the back of the stage and it says, Arnold Rose pop tuition.
And they named one, some pop singer, Johnny Layton. Never heard of him? Anyway, hey there, Wild Wind.
Johnny Layton. So I go to see this guy.
My aunt paid for it. I said, look, I could do a Beatles number or something.
I think I could. If I got some, I could make a record, I think I could make it.
So I went to see this guy and he goes, and what do you want to sing? And I went, well, look, I've got this Beatles album, and I'd like to do this song, Anna. He goes, oh, okay, well, let me hear a bit of, let me just hear the scales.
He went, oh, okay, okay, you're kind of, yeah, you're in tune. He goes, well, listen, I want you to do this.
Get up on the stage. He had a little stage, and he said, what I'm going to do is record you.
And we're going to play the Beatles. But I'm going to cut their vocals.
And we'll just have them backing you. And I went, you can do that? He went, oh, yeah.
Yeah, because it's a great harmony. Yeah.
So I start. And I undo the whole thing.
And he goes, wow, well, that's pretty good. Now, next week, I want you to come back.
We're going to cut a record. And I want you to bring 150 pounds to do that.
I mean, I went, 150 pounds? I mean, that to me was like $10,000, you know. It was huge money in those days.
So I had to go to my aunt, you know, and take her out for a cup of tea and try and tap her for a little more money. So I said to myself, I was sharing a place with my sister, and I went, you know, this guy thinks I'm a bit like John Lennon, you know.
She goes, oh, really? Well, play it for me. And I got the reel-to-reel, played it.
And she goes, wow, that is, that's great. Now play the original.
I went, oh, yeah, okay. Played the original.
She went, there's no difference. I went, what? She goes, there's no difference.
You are John Lennon. I mean, he didn't cut the vocals.
He goes, that's John Lennon. You think it's you? I went, well, yeah.
She went, no, it's not. Do not go back and do not give him 150 pounds.
I went, oh. So that's the end of my pop career.
I don't get it. Jesus Christ.
I don't get it. Sorry.
You don't get it? No, you. I'm sorry.
I think I made that clear. Not to me.
Okay. What's not clear? You recorded this.
I went to the guy. Wait, wait.
let me do it. It sounded just like John Lennon.

Yes?

He had me stand and told me that he was cutting the vocals.

I get it.

When he wasn't.

Oh.

So he lied to me.

Oh.

And I thought, because I was a young wannabe.

I see.

And completely naive and stupid.

It was a scam. I really thought it was me.
It was a scam. It was a scam.
Well, once again, I got to say, stupid. Wow.
Come on, come on, man. You've hit me twice now.
I know. What can I say? I mean, because John Lennon's voice is so distinctive.
And how could it? I mean, I can hear it. I know, but you know.
I can hear it in my head.

Anna, oh, it's so good. You come and ask me to go, to set you free, go.

Go with him.

It's a beautiful song, and it's a cover,

but I think that's a great song.

You know what else is a great cover?

Mr. Moonlight?

That's great, but the best has to be be the best. What? We've missed.
The absolute best is John Lennon at his genius best, Twist and Shout. Yes.
Yes. You're right.
You're right. Every time you hear that song, which is a million times, you cannot help but.
Well, first of all, you think of, I do anyway, the fact that they cut that whole album in one day. Of course.
But we didn't know that. No, of course not.
It was their repertoire. And he purposely sang it last because his voice would have been shredded.
Exactly.

But the fact that the voice is a little shredded is what gives it...

Brilliant.

Exactly.

It makes it genius.

It just does.

It's just...

It's one of my favorite...

Same here.

I remember in the old days of making mixtapes on cassettes,

I remember when I made one as a Christmas gift one year

because I couldn't afford anything more,

a mixtape called Singing. And it was just great vocal performances.
And I think that was probably the first one. And I think Mr.
Moonlight was on there too. That's beautiful too.
But twist and shit. Yes, you're right.
You're right. I mean, John, that is one of the greatest performances of a rock and roll.
I mean, he had the greatest rock and roll voice. He really did.
He really did. I mean, Paul had a beautiful...
Yes. The thing about Paul was, it was amazing, that Paul could sing either or.
Absolutely. He could do the raw, you know, Little Richard.
I mean... I mean, he had a...
I don't think... I'm not sure about the voice now.
I think... If you didn't know much about the Beatles, like kids, you know, you can't blame them.
They didn't live through it like we did. But if you, and they, but they just know the basic reputation.
And you said to them, which Beatle do you think sang and wrote, why don't we do it in the road? They would say, oh, of course, John Lennon. I mean, it's a,ious kind of song.
No. No, but it's not.
No. And yeah, I mean, Paul McCartney could do that.
Oh, Darling, you know, he was still doing that. That's a beautiful song.
But you know, I love songs like Girl. Yeah.
Girl is a beautiful song. Yeah.
Beautiful, beautiful song. Oh.
I mean, listen, honestly, you can't. Literally hundreds.
Especially when you add in the. I mean hundreds.
Well, if you add in the. I think the genius of Paul, besides the fact that he was obviously a great songwriter, but the genius of him is that John would, I don't think, done half the stuff he did.
Of course. If Paul wasn't producing them, moving them, whipping them into shape.
That's by John's own admission. I think he said every time the phone went, it was, oh, he wants us back in.
Yeah, time to make a new album. Yeah.
Yeah. No, John Lennon was definitely the guiding spirit of the early Beatles and the foundation of the band.
And then halfway through, it switched up, which was kind of poetic justice. Yeah.
But I would love to get Paul McCartney here just to, like, talk only about the post-Beatles period because I feel like, you know, we all know about the Beatles and how great they were. I mean, the Hamburgs.
But I feel like I know that period just as well, like all the great, just even in this century. And a lot of the rock heroes of my youth have disappointed in this century.
Not him, not every single song, but like you could put together a really great compilation. And I saw this video of some guy still believing, oh my God, that Paul McCartney was replaced.
You know, people love their conspiracy theories. In 1960.
Although Elvis is not dead. And I would like to tell them, like, okay, for this to be true, it would mean that the guy who replaced Paul McCartney would have had to come up also with that solo career.
Yeah. Because he's got amazing records that he made all through the decades.
And of course, once you get a little older and the audience moves on, they don't sample them as much. Which is your favorite album of his? Oh, I mean, Flowers in the Dirt is absolutely a Beatles album.
I mean, it's every bit like one. Yeah.
And I mean, there's tons. Yeah.
My favorite, those. I mean, the one with.
Well, what about George Harrison's? Yeah, less material, and John had way less. John, Paul, just lived longer, but he was also more prolific.
I mean, All Things Must Pass is great. He did another one after that.
Brilliant. That is one of the great double albums of all time.
It's a triple album, actually. Is it? All Things Must Pass is a triple album.

It's three.

Wow.

And then he did Concert for Badly.

My favorite is Plastic Ono Band.

Boom.

That's it.

Well, that's not my...

The Imagine.

What?

Oh, absolutely.

Oh, the album.

I thought you meant the actual band.

It is.

That's what the album's called.

You're right.

It is the absolute greatest John Lennon stuff.

I don't think so.

Oh, I do.

I really do.

I'm going think so. Oh, I do.
I really do. I do like it.
I mean, that has God, right, on it? Yeah. God is a concept by which we measure our pain.
We measure our pain. I'll say it again.
Yes. And then the end.
Because it rhymes. It's the three parts.
It's that thing.

God is a concept by which we measure our pain.

That, when I first said that, I started crying and weeping.

Remember?

I don't believe in Beatles.

I don't believe in Dylan.

I don't believe in Elvis.

No, Zimmerman.

Zimmerman.

Yeah.

He goes through this whole.

Just believe in me.

It's fucking brilliant.

And that's reality.

The dream is over.

Just believe in me.

It's great because he's telling the audience, the dream is over. Yeah.
What can you do? It's because the Beatles split up. Yeah, yeah, of course.
It's nice. And by the way.
I don't think it's the greatest song ever. No.
Or the one that is great. But in context of where his hit, who he was, the band was, what happened to them, and where everything was at, it was, I mean, it was dynamite.

No, I think he's, like, I'm the biggest John Lennon fan.

There's a picture of him right over there.

But he also was a little full of shit about some stuff.

Like, he wasn't the working class.

There's a song on that album called Working Class Hero.

Oh, it's a great song.

And he wrote it in the back of his rolls.

But he wasn't.

Working class hero, something to be.

All right, that was good.

I'm going to give you a chance. And he wrote it in the back of his rolls.
But he wasn't. Working class hero is something to be.

All right, that was good.

I've got to give you a pound on that.

All right, I've got to go back to my day job.

Yeah, I've got to pee.

Hey, listen, can I say one thing?

I want to mention that I have a movie coming out.

It's a Western. Yes, please, plug away.

It's called Last Train to Fortune.

A Western.

And Beckett McDowell did the music.

Oh.

And my other two boys are in it.

Wow.

And it's a brilliant performance from James Paxton.

And I wanted to mention that because it's dear to my heart.

I love the picture.

And thank you.

I always say, there's one thing we...

We've been talking a long time, haven't we?

I do apologize.

There's one thing we need more of.

It's Nepo Baby. Yeah.
I'm kidding. Give me a pot.
Yes, I had a... Give me this fucking pot.
I had a... I had a good time.
Great to meet you. Bill.
Thank you. Now you're going to have to get up.
I feel like I do know you a little more. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
Thanks, buddy. Thank you.
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