Penn Jillette | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Don't street show guys like that make a lot of money?

The amount that I made would knock you over.

Then why were you living in the alley?

I've just told you I changed my mind from this point of view.

And you just said you should change your mind.

Oh, good.

Oh, look at you. Standing.
Good to see you. Wow.
You look like you lost a lot of weight. Only about 120 pounds.
Really? Yeah. And I know it wasn't no Zempick.
No, no, it wasn't. I'm not a big fan of that.
But it's been now, I mean, I just haven't seen you often. It's been like nine years I've been down.
Really? Yeah. Oh my God.
And also that brought me around to a point of view of yours that I thought I would never share. Oh good.
Which is it brought me around to being, I'm afraid I'm a pretty hardcore vegan now. Have been for nine years.
I'm not a vegan. I know, but here's what happened.
You see, when you... But I'm a...
Animal rights guy. A medical skeptic.
Well, animal rights, yes, but also a medical skeptic in the broad sense. I started out stopping animal products for my health, and it turns out...
I don't agree with that. You don't either? I'm not sure.
I think the science is completely out on that. I mean, the science may very well be that people or some people need to be adopted in health animal protein.
That may be the case. I know that's not what PETA wants to hear, and I love my friends at PETA.
But I'm sorry. The truth always comes first.
And the science is out on that. Yeah.
And I've heard many, many doctors say, all my patients are vegetarians. They don't look good.
I disagree with that because I know vegetarians who do look fine. Yeah.
But. I'm not sure.
I'm not sure you do. But I'll give you that.
But what I was saying was, what's really interesting is when you give up having to resolve your cognitive dissonance with factory farming and so on. Yes.
Once you no longer have to do that. Right.
I agree. It's one of those things that I don't think you can find a person that will do anything.
I don't think you can find reasonable people who would go into a factory farm and say, I feel good about this. This is the way we should be living.
But there are definitely people who, even if they saw it, wouldn't care that much. That's right.
That's different. It's different.
I mean, there are some people, I always compare it to me and babies, not that I would ever want to hurt a baby, but you can show me humans, in fact, but babies, like in a movie, and bad things are happening to them. It won't actually make me cry.
But an animal? Yeah. It's just some people are fur people.
I believe that's a cultural thing, how we start to function that way. I'm not sure that would be built in.
Yeah. Oh, I don't know about that.
A cultural thing to, like, just have a thing for animals? I think our culture is moving in that direction. What culture hates animals? Well, you would say America.
America? Well, yeah, but not like, but only mostly because they're more like the, you're right about the fact that if most people saw it, they would be appalled. But they just want to do the out of sight, out of mind.
It's one of the amazing things about freedom of speech in this country. You can't show the inside of a slaughterhouse.
Ag-gag rules. Yes.
How does that happen? And you know what? This is all going to come to the fore. Again, I tried to make it a case when COVID happened.
I said, when you torture animals, it's going to come back on humans. We keep doing it.
Yeah, it's not the torture. It's putting a billion of these things in close quarters.
Well, that's torture. You're torturing them.
But I'm saying it's a byproduct of the torture. It's not the purpose of it.
But the sickness that you're putting into the animals by torturing them comes back to make us sick. I'm not going to go into all the details of how that is.
This is not a science show. Why bother? Because we agree.
Right. No, no.
Right. But just for people listening.
There's people listening? No, not really. I thought this was the first honest conversation we'd ever had.
Well, it is the most honest conversation you'll ever have anywhere in media. I'll guarantee you that.
But what I was going to say is, this is all going to come back in a much bigger way now with bird flu. Oh, yep.
It's all bird flu. As a matter of fact, with COVID, we got really lucky.
The first thing we get that's bird flu related, it's really bad. I mean, the coming plague, as the book said, or the epidemic that's coming is going to be really, really bad.
And our hope is maybe we can be dead by then. That's what we're clutching on to.
Well, no, that cannot be the, we got to find a better way to look at it than that. Well, one thing, you know, is if you cut down animal products a lot, it would help things a lot.
But you, what was, I remember you and the potatoes. Yeah, well that.
What is the potatoes? The potatoes was, I'm glutton, and I was completely on the SAD, which is, you know, standard American diet.

Right.

And a friend of mine, who's pretty pro-science, worked at NASA and all that shit, said to me, you know, you've got to knock yourself out of your head.

So people tend to say it back in an oversimplified way. That's why I'm asking.
That you just started to eat potatoes. And the fact is I did for two weeks.
Right. And what that did for me, I'm not saying for anybody else.
What it did for me is it taught me what it felt like to be hungry, which I didn't know. You know, you've never been fat.
No. But learning not...

I do hear, but not fat.

Learning not to be a glutton

and not to fall for all the social cues,

you want to knock yourself out of it for a little while.

And two weeks of eating nothing but potatoes,

I was thinking differently.

And I started to taste food differently

and started to feel differently.

Yeah, I mean, I started—

It could have been anything.

Potatoes weren't magic.

Right.

It was just a mono diet for long enough to say, I'm not going to see those ads the same.

Well, just something to disrupt.

I mean, when you think about most people who never do a fast, for example, I mean, you're just—they would never really think, and I never really thought for year after year, anything other than I eat three meals a day. Right.
And I never skip a day because it's eating, for fuck's sake. Yeah.
And then, you know, you get older and you have health issues, and then you're doing things like, I mean, I've, I think for about five years now, a couple of times a year, I do that prolon fast. It's like they call it the fasting mimicking diet.
Yeah, I've just, I've done a tiny bit of food, but it, you know. I've done just water for two weeks.
Just water. See, I can't do that.
I tried the hardcore. I can't.
But remember, I still have. I mean, for one time, I was down much lower than this and probably to where you are in terms of body fat.

But I'm not there now.

I could easily go three weeks.

But what the fast does, especially if you do it regularly, it does, again, retrain you to how much food you need.

And then you can go to what I did was two meals a day instead of three. because compared to the fast, two meals a day is joyous.
I do one. One? Yeah.
One, like a dog. I eat very, very carefully and it's all vegan.
But I take the supplements. The thing that I didn't really understand is that how much of the way we live our lives is based around food.
Of course. I can now talk to somebody without eating.
Right. It used to be that's all I did was eat when I did.
Well, when I do the fast, I can't talk to anybody because it is social. So I have to stay home.
I mean, some people can work through a fast. I'm amazed.
I can't be social. I don't want to talk to you on the phone.
I just have to be alone. And that's okay for five days.
It's actually a nice reset, reading, and certainly can't do any pot. When you come back from doing a fast, and you go into Hollywood meetings, and it's 10 o'clock, and they have bagels and donuts, and you say, who's hungry right now? Why do they have this food? Who came to the meeting going, wow, I'm wicked hungry? Wait, you go to Hollywood meetings at 10 a.m.? I have.
I have. Recently? Even though they know.
No, but I mean, a few years ago. I was just going to say.
I'm from Vegas. So I'm not really supposed to be up before noon.
Right. What time do you get up? I usually get up actually about 10, 9 or 10, because I go to sleep about 2.
So how many years have you been at the Rio? I should interject here, because you might be interested, the longest-running headliners in Vegas history. Fuck you, Sinatra.
Right. We have now gone, I only say that because he's dead, 23 years we've been playing.
Conveniently named Penn and Teletheater. Right.
I've been to it. Do you remember that I did a trick with you guys? Yeah.
What was that for? It's funny because, you know, I don't know what year this is. I'm guessing the 90s? Yep.
Okay. It would have been on Sin City Spectacular.
OK. And we called in a favor.
I remember. I was happy to do it.
I was honored. The name of the trick was Blood from a Stone.
Oh, yeah, yeah, with the hand. And I remember, what? Into the hand, the razor into the hand, yeah.
No, there was a stone. Yeah, but it turned into a faux expose that had people cut in their hand.
I don't specifically remember that. I don't remember much.
Of course, it's the 90s. I'm a pothead.
But what I do remember, I remember the name of the trick, Blood from a Stone. And I also remember afterwards thinking, oh my God, that's so cheap when you get up close to it.
Well, thank you. Like, really, this is what's fooling all these people? It was just like a magic shop rock.
Yeah, that was the first part. There was a second part we paid off.
Okay. You were the setup.
Oh, I was the setup? Yeah. OK.
There was a payoff later. But yeah, we do Fool Us, so we have to come up with 20 new tricks a year.
Right. And most magicians do 25 in their lives.
So we are writing a lot of material. And it's really fun.
I'll bet you that's fun because that's new. Yeah.
What I can't wrap my mind around is the amount of shows you do. Like, I couldn't do that.
We do a lot of shows. Do you do two a night? No, not anymore.
We also go on the road. But how many weeks a year? Well, 52 if you count on the road.
Like, for instance, next year. You never take a week off? No.
Next year we'll be doing Australia and England. It's the 50th anniversary.
Oh, my goodness. But I don't.
I take a day or two off every two or three years. I just love to work.
Humans are so different. Yeah.
I mean, the thing, I mean, just the, you're not bored if you're doing the same act? I don't do the same act. We have, we do different stuff on the road than we do in Vegas.
We put different tricks in it. So from Thursday to Friday, it's a different show? This week, it will be way different, yeah, from Thursday to Friday.
But you just happen to get lucky on that question. The best living magician is a man named Juan Temeriz, who's from Spain.
And we have a bit in the show called The Spaniel, which we wrote with a great Spanish magician named Jandro. And he's a student of Juan Temeriz.
So we were going to pull that out of the show and a bunch of other stuff to put new stuff in. But Juan's coming from Madrid to see our show, so we're keeping in the stuff we want him to see.
That may be unprofessional to say, tonight's show is for this guy. And your partner feels the same way about all this work, or are you dragging him? He's happy to do it, too.
We intend to die in office. We have no plans of retiring.
I mean, Teller is seven years older than me. So I am, you know, three score and nine, and he's, you know, he's 76.
Three score. Now, for the kids out there, I can only explain this to you in terms of the Gettysburg Address.
Kids, you remember four score and seven years ago? That's 87 years. That was the time from the American Revolution to the Gettysburg Address.
Score means a period of 20 years. And only people who are three score or older would ever use it.
And certainly not to get laid. No.
But you're married, right? Yeah. I believe we're the- How long have you been married? I've been buried, oh, gee, 20 years.
20? A score? We have two children. We have two children who are 19 and 18.
Do you like them? I do. Okay.
I do, and that's fortunate. Although I will tell you that there isn't a study that will tell you that I'm happier than you because of having children.
Wait. They all say the opposite.
What do the studies say, that you're happier if you have children? No. Oh, that if you don't.
No, yeah. Well, first of all, it's so stupid.
Because we're all individuals. What makes me happy isn't what makes you happy.
So we're comparing apples with not even another type of fruit. What'd you call me? Well, again, I've heard rumors.
Yeah, well, they're all true. Right.
What were you, like a gay when I'm drunk kind of guy? I've never been drunk. You know that.
Oh, that's right. I'm stoned or drunk.

So what was your excuse?

Full moon?

You know, that's one of the things that these two people have differently.

I don't even drink caffeine.

Right.

I've never had a puff of marijuana.

I don't think that's true for you.

Well, you're going to get one tonight.

And, you know, I don't think that's true for you. Well, you're going to get one tonight.
And, you know, I don't drink alcohol. But I have had, you know, what they referred to as medicinal drugs like morphine and stuff when I was wicked sick.
And I've got to tell you, I really enjoyed it. Morphine? Of course.
And a matter of fact. It's opium.

You know Trey Parker.

Well, now I don't know him, but I know who he is.

Well, Trey used to say, probably still does.

I haven't talked to him in a while.

That my biggest flaw was never being high.

You personally?

Oh, I see.

Yeah.

So he said he wanted to be opium, but I was high. So I had gone to the dentist, and they had made a mistake and given me much more than they should have of, like, some powerful painkiller.
Good for them. So I said to my wife, I said, call Trey Parker.
Right. So he flew in and spent an evening talking to me and said, I was right.
You're a lot better high. Well, look, some people literally are better high.
I think I am in some areas. I love to write high.
Stand up. I can do high and often have.
Real time? No, that would be a disaster. That's not the kind of thing you want to be high for.
There's too many elements going on, too many important people. Got to keep the clock.
We're on a big network. It's not the same thing.
In this show, I can go, oh, what were we talking about? Or fuck you. Or are you gay? Whatever it is.
Just I'm not going to. that's just a different kind of thing.
High is right for something. I've never been an everyday smoker.
I've said this many times. I'm a situational smoker.
And that's how I, I know it sounds counterintuitive to say I'm not addicted to marijuana. I could have quit any time in the last 45 years that I've been smoking and I just didn't.
But it I think it is true. Like when I do the fast, I don't miss it.
It's like I know I'm not going to smoke during a fast or on a Tuesday night or whatever night I'm not smoking. And my body doesn't go, come on, let's do this.
When I was on cigarettes, my body was saying, come on, let's do this. There's very little evidence of addictive qualities of marijuana by almost any definition.
You know, I'm not, I'm someone who doesn't smoke marijuana, who has been on the cover of High Times Magazine. Well, that's it.
I have been very, very pro-legalization of everything. Because I just think that if you don't have the freedom to smoke dope, I don't really have the freedom not to.
Right. And I think if we ask most men on the street, women on the street, whoever, trans on the street, I don't want to leave anybody out.
Whoever happens to be on the street. Any life form on the street, Penn Jillette, first they would say magic.
And of course, they didn't know that.

Second, I think they would say is libertarian.

Yeah, which faded a little bit for me. I got that tag, too.
And look, you know, I think we're probably similar on this. Some things I am libertarian about.
Sure. Where it makes sense.
You once said to me, I think, that libertarians were, you know,

conservative. It makes sense.
You once said to me, I think, that libertarians were, you know, conservatives wanted to smoke dope. Some of them are.
Yeah. And the formal party.
That has come to be more true. The formal party takes it too far.
Like the actual libertarian party. And also.
They're the ones who I think of saying, you know, seatbelts? No. They restrict my freedom and I want to soar like an eagle right through the windshield.
The other thing is that for me, a lot of what gets forgotten is the responsibility. Libertarianism only really works if people are taking more responsibility than many people want.
And the fact that I seem to want responsibility, you know, it's that mistake that's made with the do-onto-others thing that we've been hitting again and again. I cannot treat you like I want to be treated because you want different things, you know? And that is the problem with extrapolating from your own desires that everybody else wants.
I don't understand that. Of course you can treat me like we're talking about things we have in common, like we treat each other like I'm polite to you.
Of course. But I can't use the solipsism of thinking that you have the same desires I have.
No. Exactly.
And that's what makes the world go round. You know what I'm saying? It's a good thing.
It is a good thing. Or else we'd all be competing more so for the same things.
I mean, we are already competing for a lot. You know, people, I mean, this is a capitalist society.
We're all trying to get ahead and get rich or die trying. But at least we're not competing like on other levels, like for pot and liquor and women.
That's all you meant.

That's all you meant.

Right.

I mean, I think the marriage, not marriage thing is, to me, the clearest divide as to how people are just built differently and have different DNA and different needs. Part of it is psychological, of course.
Part of it is physical. Some people just have a very high libido.
But I was very anti-marriage, as was my wife, which is an odd thing to say. And I did not think that the solution was gay marriage.
I thought the solution was no marriage for anybody. Made contracts.
But we talked to several lawyers. and we couldn't get anybody to tell me 100% that if we had children and my wife died, custody would go to me.
I see. And we tried to write up an elaborate contract that would do that, and the lawyers finally said, get married.
Save yourself some money. Because we, I think that all the stuff that comes with marriage and saying that there's one way or a broad way that people interact with each other is madness.
It's insane. But they've put up so many roadblocks because I would not want, and I trust my wife's family completely, but I don't want to be in the situation where she would have a car accident.
Of course, this is now an academic question because my children are over 18. But when they were 10, my wife has a car accident and someone in her family decides to take me to court over custody.
I don't want that to happen. And when you're married, there's no doubt you're the father of sin.
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About six weeks ago, I cracked. And I just said, I can't take in any more news.
I can't read the Times anymore. I can't watch Bill's show.
My closest friend, as you may know, is Lawrence O'Donnell. And I would watch his show.
I did not know that. And I wrote to Lawrence and I said, I got to stop watching the news.
And that includes your show. And I said, make me one promise, Lawrence.
If things change enough that I should vote for Trump, send me a text. Other than that, I'm not watching the news.
So I'm a little bit self-conscious, because I used to have a pretty good idea what was going on. But you should see the clip from Friday of Jiminy Glick on my show.
Okay. You will die.
I'm just sitting there. I'm just a prop.
But you know Jiminy Glick. I mean, he did it for me, and it was just, I mean, I've never had a reaction like that.
It's really, I mean, he's just a genius. He is, absolutely is.
But you're not the only one. I mean, Sam Harris famously got off Twitter about a year ago and talked about that and said, like, he was so much more clear after that.
I mean, I don't get it because like, I want to say to these very smart people like you and him, why did you ever go down this stupid rabbit hole to begin with? I'm not a genius, but I saw from a mile away that this is a stupid thing to do. To engage with the whole world on everybody's complaints 24-7? Really? You thought that was a good thing? But also, there's this other thing thing that's happened.
I believe, and maybe this is simply getting old, and that's a possibility. And if that's the answer, then that's the answer.
But I believe that some people were talking about issues in our lifetime. And I believe that now it's become nothing but team sports.
Well, it is Lawrence O'Donnell and go, how's Trump doing? Is he going to be okay? And I just can't do that. Yeah.
But to be fair, that's not what I'm doing. That is not what I'm doing.
And the reason why my show and my career in general are doing better than ever, my book went to number one, is because I'm not doing that. Because I'm not going to say the one guy.
I don't monitor everybody else. But people come up to me all the time and say it to me.
You are the one guy who is not playing this partisan game. I get that you're center left, but you are not afraid to go after you.
Right. You never have.
You are not afraid to go after the left.

As the person who was on the first week and the last week of Politically Agored.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Really?

I'm the one who was on both.

Oh, my God.

You knew it at the time.

Did you get smokers when you saw the sign behind you there when you walked in?

I will tell you.

Isn't that a perfect spot?

Yes.

I mean, and you had to put a stripper pole in front of him, didn't I? May I tell you my favorite Bill Maher story? Oh, please. Because I love him.
I was on Politically Incorrect. And there were the seats there.
I don't know. Yeah, 90s.
Long time ago. And there was your seat.
And for some reason, this didn't often happen, but it was just the two of us on the set. And I had the list of the people who were on with me.

And I forgot who it was.

It was some drug czar for Clinton and someone else.

It sounds right.

You know, it was these people.

And I said to you, and it was probably...

Bless the sitcom, actor.

Yeah, it was probably your kindest moment in your life.

I looked at it.

I mean, I was sincere.

I was not setting you up for a joke.

I should have one nut. You have one person in the nutshell, and you always know who the nut is.
And you went, that's all you did. And I went, oh, it's me.
And you went, well, you know, we have all different people on. And I said, I'm in the nut chair.
And then you kind of looked at me like, you always are, Penn. You're always in the nut chair.
That's hysterical. But your look is a look that they've never seen Bill Maher give, which was the look of, I'm kind, I care for you, but there's a truth I have to tell you that might be a little tough.

Well, I was more fond of the nut chair.

I didn't even know we had one, but yes.

Yeah, now it's coming back to me, right?

I mean, I wouldn't call it nut, but like somebody, of course, the nut chair was where you were probably going to get the lion's share of the good stuff that came out of the show. Because the nut chair is somebody who is voluble and probably interesting with unpredictable ideas.
And that's what I always wanted. And that was the, you know, I always say about politically, it was a designed train wreck of four different people who have nothing in common.
But we all get to vote, so we should all get to talk. And there were some people who were on that show, like musicians, a couple of them.
I won't say the names. I think I can remember at least one of them, who sat there for four segments and said nothing.
Like they just had a good seat for the show. Like the whole show went by, and they did not make a word come out of their mouth.
The only show, and I did your show a bunch of times, the only show that I shouldn't have done and I didn't enjoy was right after my mom died.

And this is not your fault. I was on the show with a psychic who talked to the dead.
And it was the one time I've been on your show that I couldn't mitigate my grief and my anger. Wow.
And my outrage, I couldn't temper with any sort of comedy. And I remember after this show.
Because you thought he was a phony? No, I'm asking. Yeah.
That's it, because you're the magician. Yeah.
But also, but the point was that my mom had just died. So I had no, I should have called up and said, my mom died two weeks ago.
I shouldn't be on your comedy show talking about life after death. And afterwards, you just went, yeah, your mom just died.
I'm so glad we got onto this because you're the guy to ask about this. All acts who do like a psychic thing, they're all phonies.
Is that what you're saying? I have. Because sometimes I don't.
I have looked very, very hard, sincerely trying to find something that seems supernatural. And I haven't been able to.
Meaning? And that's as far as you're going to get out of me. Every single person that I've experienced has been phony.
Okay. And every single person.
I don't know the name of this guy, and I don't see this a lot because I don't seek it out. But I do seek it out.
Okay. That's why I'm asking you.
Okay. Barbara Streisand.
I don't know if she's. I think she exists.
Oh, yes. And is a very good friend of mine.
And I love her dearly. And she may be right.
I don't know. To love you? Well, she's definitely right to love me.
But she has someone who comes out in her act, at least when I saw her the last time live. And this is going back, you know, not that long, but maybe eight years.
And it's somebody she presents in the middle of her show who does a psychic act and does things, you know, like somebody in the audience. And you can tell when someone is not a plant in the audience.
No one is that good an actor. I agree with you on that.
Okay. So, I mean i mean and then you know what writes on a white board the name of their high school boyfriend or whatever it is that is like it's like no i know i don't know how magic tricks work so i'm saying maybe there is a way but it is it is befuddling to me how someone could do that trick what could possibly be Yeah be the means by which you get into this person's head? You just described a trick.
You just happen to have. You described a trick that's trivial, that is easy.
But there are other ones that are harder. Easy? How do you do it? Well, I don't know.
First of all, I wouldn't necessarily be right. And that's what makes me hesitant.
I'm not protecting magic secrets. But whenever you postulate this is how a trick was done, you could be wrong.
Because I don't know all the details. But you can.
It's pretty easy to get information off a whiteboard. It's pretty easy to get information off a chalkboard.
No, no. If you write something down, I know it.
No, but he's, I don't understand. He's writing it down.
Oh, he's writing it down. He's writing it down.
Well, there's a- He's saying, he's talking to somebody in the audience who just, again, unless they're the most brilliant actor or actress in the world, I don't see acting. I see, no, I've never met you before.
And then I'm writing something down that is in your head that only you would know. I would imagine they're telling the truth on everything.
Who's telling the truth? What do you mean? I would imagine the person in the audience is telling the truth, as you said. I'm agreeing with you.
Yeah. So you have to, different body lines.
Yeah, the person is blown away. They're destroyed.
Rob Schminkus was my high school. Exactly.
Or the guy got the name wrong by one letter or something. And it's like, come on.
I just, I can't explain it, but. I can.
Please. But it takes a long time.
There's a thing called pre-show work, which is much more brilliant than you think it would be. And there's also something called dual reality, which is really, really important.
If I'm doing a trick for you and the audience is watching, if I do a trick that will blow you away and you're amazed, it may be a different trick than what the audience thinks. I don't see this as a trick.
A trick involves a prop, like blood from a stone. No.
Okay. No.
This is just mental telepathy. But you're making, I think.
I don't know. You're making a mistake that is pretty important.
Okay. While you were going to college, while you were doing all the things you were doing, learning to be funny, learning to write jokes, learning to deliver jokes, other people were working on other things.
You know, I will bump into doctors. I, I just don't get the infrastructure, the college you go to, to learn how you could ever learn how to do that.
I'm sorry, but maybe if... I do know.
If you want to learn to do that, I can point you where you need to go. Just give me a little something to hang it on.
Like, again, a person, the guy has never met. What you're asking me to do, Bill, is you're asking me to tell you in two and a half minutes how to go out and do an hour stand-up show.
No. It's not the same.
It is exactly the same. No, because I know how my stand-up back got in my head.
I want to know how what's in that lady's lady's head in the audience if you can control the question you don't have to worry about the answer they're making if it's rob schminkus if it's that specific they're making you ask a different question which is how they got in that head but and that's you they've already lost the back what i I'm saying is maybe, maybe the only time this has ever happened happened when you saw it with Barbra Streisand. I'm just saying I've seen that same effect.
Yeah, because it's another guy who has this, if this is what it is. But it's not.
Well, you say it's not, but you're not giving me anything.

But you say it is, and you're not giving me anything.

I'm not saying it is.

Okay, good.

I'm saying my mind is open, which I'm sure is disappointing to some people who are like,

well, Bill, you made religious.

I thought you were like logical.

I am logical.

That means open.

And in religious, by the way, I don't say there is no God.

I say I preach the gospel of I don't know. I don't think there is.
The most important three words in science. I don't say there is no God.
I say I preach the gospel of I don't know.

I don't think there is.

The most important three words in science.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Exactly.

And that is what makes science.

Before science starts, I don't know is never said.

Kings don't say I don't know.

Religious figures don't say I don't know.

I don't know are the three words of the key to everything.

Absolutely.

And that's the brilliant thing about you dealing with religion. And that is, by the way, what atheists say.
Right. But like, I don't know how this guy does this trick.
And again, maybe, are we sure, should we clear out what he's, now again, I'm remembering this from like eight years ago and very vaguely, but he is on stage with a whiteboard. He talks to someone in the audience.
Hi, we never met. Absolutely not.
I'm convinced of that. And you've been feeling whatever lately.
Okay. Anybody could be, I'm getting a, I'm getting a, it's about a friend.
Yes. It's a male.
Yes. High school.
Yes. And then he writes the name down.
I mean, I don't know where this trail begins for him. You're not helping me with that.
The fact that you don't know how something happens does not make it supernatural. I agree.
Explain to me how a refrigerator works. I could, though.
I absolutely could study up. And you can study up and learn this, too.
I took physics for poets my sophomore year in college. And by the end of the term, there was one great shining day when I could derive for you E equals MC squared.
It took the whole semester to get there, but I understood it as we did it. I couldn't remember one thing about it now.
Let me tell you something that might illuminate this that I do know, because I wasn't there, and I can't talk you through it. I don't know who it was, but I can tell you this.
There was faith healers. They were doing a lot of faith healing.
And there was one trick they were doing, and I will use that word, that amazing Randy, you know, my dear friend. Yes, the great debunker.
Could not figure out. No idea how to figure it out.
And that was the healing people in wheelchairs. Get people up on stage with wheelchairs.
He would say, get up, dance. Well, that's the power of, I mean, like.
No, I'm going to tell you the trick. I'm trying to explain it to you.
When you arrive at the theater, they had 50, 25 non-matching wheelchairs. And when someone came in who was limping or with a cane or their family was helping them, a very, very nice person said to them, would you like to sit in a wheelchair? Would that make it easier? And they wheeled them down toward the front.
And when it came time to heal, all the things you say. The world is full of charlatans.
We agree. And much of this would be charlatanism.
Because nothing is lying. you ever danced like that before throw that wheelchair away do you need that wheelchair no i don't i get but that's okay but it's i guess a very different thing yes that exists in the world it's nothing to do with the thing i presented yes it is it's exactly the same it's not how it's not at all let me tell you.
It's not. That's a cheap trick that is understandable.
And the other thing is not understandable. To you.
To you. Well, if it is to you, again, you're giving zero.
Okay, let me give you more. And maybe that's because you're protecting the magic.
You want more? But again, I don't think it's really a magic trick. Do you want more? But it is.
And I can tell you more. Tell me how he does it.
He has never met that person before. Right.
Ever. One way you could do that, that gives you the exact effect you're talking about, is for a nice usher to say to people, you know that the psychic's going to be performing tonight.
What kinds of things are you concerned about? And you're done. And it works.
And they will never, ever admit that because it's not part of their reality because they have- Down to the boyfriend's specific name. Yes.
Yes. Okay.
I feel like he would have gotten busted by that like the the lady would have the magician the the psychic who's gonna bust him the girl the girl who said she believes it okay but she could if it was me i would have said after the show to somebody oh well you know i did tell that to the usherher. And what is the forum you say that on?

I don't know, Penn.

There's no place anyone could put out material these days

if you only had some sort of internet or some sort of social media.

And it would be out there.

And it is out there.

I've never seen.

No, you haven't looked for it, Bill.

That's true.

I haven't looked for it.

You believed it.

Okay.

You can find these people busted everywhere. Maybe that's right.
But I'm not saying that's how they did it because there's a bunch of other ways. Okay.
Yeah. So, but, but okay, but at least you gave me something.
What you're saying to me is he does need some Confederate. Not necessarily, but in this particular story, yes.
I don't see how I... Okay.
You can also do, for instance, you can also do people filling out forms that they keep with them. That's a very common thing.
Filling out forms? You can just say to somebody, to help focus your thoughts, write it down this piece of paper, don't let me see it, cover it up. I'm never going to look at that.
Keep that in your thoughts. Write it down on this piece of paper.

Don't let me see it.

Cover it up.

I'm never going to look at that.

Keep that in your pocket.

Hold it close to your heart.

And you're done.

What about, okay, let's move on to ghosts.

Goats?

There's the fainting goats that I... Now, I know many very intelligent people who are not religious.
Why do you say intelligent in this at all? That doesn't mean anything. Because, well, okay.
Well, because they are. But anybody can make a mistake.
Okay. Let me get to the question.
Okay. Let me get to the answer.
So, I mean, there are many people over the years who, again, not drunk, not stupid, have some sort of experience with what you would call a ghost.

Like they moved into a house and it would be an odor or a little rush of air would go past them.

Certainly there are places people who say they see furniture move across the room. You know, the comedy store is supposedly haunted and that.
What's that? I have no idea. But why are you jumping to ghosts? I'm not jumping, I'm asking.
But if you take ghosts out of that and tell me that someone went into their home and their furniture moved, why are you giving an explanation? Why aren't you stopping it? I don't know. I am saying I don't know.
Okay, then we're done, right? When you say people have seen ghosts, you're making this jump. Well, they've seen, they have some sort of experience.
It's not, sometimes it is visual, but I certainly have heard it more to be like something like a brief brush. I mean, I know someone once said they moved into an apartment and they would feel this odd.
And it wasn't, and very often these presences don't seem to be particularly malevolent. They just live there.
And she said, one day she just went, get the fuck out of here. And she yelled at the ghost and she never felt it again.
I don't know. See, the problem is your question contains the assumption.
If you say to me, someone's feeling something rubbing against their head. They felt when they moved in this apartment.
They felt it over and over again. They yelled, get the fuck out of here.
And you say, why did that happen? And I say, I don't know. You're the one who said that was a ghost thing.
I'm just saying, let's call it phenomenon. No, let's call it.
There's a phenomenon that the vernacular would be ghost, some sort of spirit, some sort of something. I personally have never experienced any.
But you're also clumping those things together. I'm just saying it's odd to me that people who are otherwise, let's use that proviso for you, otherwise intelligent.
And under cross-examination, we'll tell you, I know I wasn't dreaming.

I know I was, and I certainly wasn't drunk. And it's, was it, is it a hallucination? No, there's nothing.
We don't know. There's nothing you're saying that I disagree with, even slightly.
And if you say, can you explain these? My answer is no. If you say, can anyone explain this? My answer is no.
Right. My only moment is when you say, well, then it was a ghost.
How about you say, well, then we don't know. I don't want to be a ghost.
That's all I know. Okay.
When I go, I don't know if I want to be cremated because, you know, if they keep your something around, they could maybe bring you back with AI in the future, you know. Not that maybe that wouldn't be.
Although you're trivial on AI. They've got plenty of you talking recorded.
They've got what? They've got plenty recorded of you talking. So they don't need me.
They don't need you. They can do an AI Bill Maher like that.

You know, we're doing an AI of Gilbert Gottfried

that we've been playing around with.

It's pretty fascinating.

That's his painting there.

I know.

He's, you know, I miss him all the time.

That was Jerry.

That was Scott Carter got that for me

from the Jerry Lewis telethon that was outside Jerry's door.

Isn't that awesome, Jerry?

And it's certainly true.

It's so Jerry.

He needed time to dress, think, and rest.

There's just no doubt that he did.

He needed more time to dress, think, and rest than the rest.

It's so Vegas.

Not that I don't, well, I was just there.

Did you ever do the telephone?

Yes.

And I have to tell you, I probably shouldn't even say this because I get canceled. But okay.
My opening joke was that I parked in the handicapped spot. It could have all ended for me that night.
I mean, it was like. Well, it has all ended for you three times, and you still keep coming back.

Yeah, I know, but talk about...

I don't know.

Charitably, you would say balls.

Uncharitably, you would say, what a fucking idiot.

I mean, talk about not reading the room.

And it's also...

Those two things are often indistinguishable.

What? Balls?

Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes.

No, absolutely. It just depends who happens to be talking at that moment.
And how it's taken. Jerry, I mean, he could have been worse.
But I just figured, like, everyone's always sort of tiptoeing around them. Yeah.
You know, just they probably want to laugh, too. I was wrong about that.
But that's what I figured. Sure, sure.
That's the thinking. That was the thinking that went into it.
And then never heard it that way.

Again, it's not moving the needle on me, but it's such a great way to put it. There's no reason you need to.

Evolutionary love.

Right.

It's not a decision.

I get it.

And that's fascinating.

You mean you're compelled to do it.

It's a calling.

Well, no.

It's like hunger. There's no control over it.
You care about these compelled to do it. It's a calling.
Well, no, it's just, it's like hunger.

There's no control over it.

You care about these beings a tremendous amount.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, because they're, as you say, evolutionary.

They're an extension of you in a way no other person can be.

Right.

And we would not have survived this far if our children were able to get us to kill them.

If what?

If our children were able to get us to kill them, we would not be here. Because they're so annoying? Yeah.
I mean, they try. They try.
And we have this love built into us that we can't control. Right.
But believe me, if we could control it, it would be the end of the race. Because they're that annoying.
Sure. Of course, I agree.
That's why I don't have them. I just, my hat is off to any parent today, really, because I think it's never been harder because you're not allowed to boss them around the way you, you know, and you should be able to boss around children because they're children, because they're just stupid.
Well, I'll just tell you, if you want really clear advice on raising children, you have to talk to someone who doesn't have children. Really? You have to.
Because anyone that has children, that's what I'm saying. You were just giving advice.
And I was commenting on that by saying, the fact that you have an understanding means you don't have children. People that have children go, ah.
Well, the polling always says, and it's kind of depressing, but it does say what people say, at least Americans say, is I love my children, but if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't, which I feel is kind of an indictment on your loving your children. I mean, there's no doubt about it.
It's a very, very complex situation. I think that's more of a comment on Americans or, you know, we are such a successful civilization for all the problems we have and the complaining that goes on.
And I understand a lot of it. But a lot of it is just a lack of historical perspective at how bad things could be, how bad, how much worse they were for almost everybody who ever lived.
Well, you just fell into that trap when you said it's harder to raise children now. It was harder with polio.
It was, but harder in the sense that people just expected it to be hard. And now people have children and they're like, oh my God, I can't go to the club.
I've got this, this mewling brat that I have to take care of. I think a lot of it is that life got so cushy and children interrupt that.
Children, children, children do interrupt that. Children do interrupt that.

It's interesting that you have this complete love, and yet it's a difficult task.

It's a very difficult task.

It is.

And you've made the decision, for whatever reason, that you want to take on this task, and that responsibility is overwhelming and crushing.

And I think that when you start to realize that, you're going to have moments, especially when the pollster is interrupting you, going, yeah, I wish I didn't have you.

Fuck, fuck.

Right.

Because there's a lot of parenting that has been going, I'm sure there is. And that's okay.
We choose all the time to have life experiences that... So you must feel awesome now because you're almost at the end of the...
Well, no. I have friends who have children that are 40 years old, and it's still hard.

Well, that's bad parenting then. Yeah, sure.
You've got to prepare them. But here's the thing, Bill, that this was an argument.
One of the things that Americans have done is turned having children into a narcissistic experience. because you think, even when you said that's bad parenting,

my responsibility for my children is keeping them alive, feeding them, and loving them. Beyond that, I have very little control.
And this argument, it's poetic. It's not a deep intellectual argument.
This argument changed my whole view on everything. If parents are so important to their children, why don't immigrants' children have accents? Say that again.
When someone comes over here, first generation American, their children are born. They have heavy accents.
They don't speak English well. The children do not have accents.
And yet they're learning the language from their parents. Supposedly, they're learning all the words from their parents.
And yet it is not the parents. But they're also in American society.
It's a culture. They go to school.
They get both. They're bilingual.
My point is, no, they're not all bilingual. Most second generation are,, again, as you say, they hear the old language.

This is Italians, everybody in the home from the parents.

But they don't have the accents.

And that really shows you how important society is. Okay, yes.
They did huge, a lot of information on Dylan Fleabal, Colorado school shooters. Oh, the trench coat murders in the very Columbine, the very first school shooting.
Yeah, not actually, but yes, the one we know about and the one we talk about. And they've done a lot of research, and those parents really good.
They're really good. Everything we, everything we heard about the Columbine school shooting was wrong at first.
Like they, they were not unpopular. Right.
You know, it was, it's, it's much more of a befuddlement why they did that. Well, the fact is anyone that says anything about school shooters we know is lying because we don't have enough data points.
If you have 100 people out of a sample of 350 million, you can't know anything. The brain is just not in a good place when you're that age.
It's just, it's amazing more shit doesn't happen. Well, I'll tell you something.
You're so stupid. And I think that's just what that is.
Yeah. They just, you know, weren't really like thinking ahead.
That's it. Really, I mean, it is amazing.
And women, of course, much better at this. Much better.
The difference between a woman of 1920, 21, and 25 is night and day. And believe me, I know.
I've done extensive research on this. Whereas for a man, 20 to 25, almost the same idiot.
Almost. And even up to much higher years, I hate to admit.
Yeah. But truly.
And we can also speak not only of statistics, but also of personal experience. Oh, I mean.
I mean, I was. I need to.
I still am, but I was quite a knucklehead. We all must have.
I certainly know I was. And for many years past when you think, oh, you should be mature by then.
I mean, I remember being, I was in the longest relationship I've had in my mid-30s. And when I got out of it, I was 37.
And I remember thinking, oh,, I'm, I'm too old to, to date. You know, it was like, no, you're just, you're, you're not even ready to date.
You're just still such a dick, you know, not a dick, but like just, just doing stupid things, just still not really getting, uh, how to be around women in, in the best way for the best way for them. But also you have, you know, as a friend of mine said, no matter how bad high school was for you, when you go through it the second time with your children, it's worse.
Really? Yeah, it's a really tough time. I mean, as much as you remember how tough 17 and 18 were.
It can't be anything like it when we were in high school because there was no social media. There was no phones.
But that doesn't... That has to change everything.
Everything. But the angst is what's causing it, what you think is causing it, changes.
But it's a tough time to be a human being. Oh, I had so much more anxiety from, say, well, from birth to, you know, I don't know, mid-20s.
Just, but especially school. There was no day where I didn't go off to school without a knot in my stomach, I seem to remember.
High school, grade school, you know, just if you're not like one of the cool, you know. And yet we find out as we grew up and when you talked to those cool ones, they weren't having a good time yet.
I don't know about that. I think the cool kids in my school were having a great time because they were the cool kids.

I mean, I don't know how they got there.

I guess some of it was they were better looking or I don't know.

They're just richer.

No one better looking than you, Bill.

Richer.

What made some sort of confidence that just human beings just sort of sense and they make that the alpha? Certainly, I didn't have that. I had no confidence, super shy, and just trying to survive, and sometimes not.
But the cool kids, I think they were eating it up. I mean, they should have been.
I don't know. What were you in high school? Were you not the, what group were you in? When I was in high school, I was in, you know, I was quite an, I had the longest hair, I was the goofiest, and I was also, the worst thing you could be in high school, I was a juggler.
You were in the nut chair. Yeah, I was in the nut chair.
I spent all my time in the nut chair. I wasn't wrong.
Put me in the exact right chair. Were you popular with girls? Yeah.
Yes! Listen to that. Well, I wasn't.
And if some girl liked me, I was too shy to do anything. I was talking.
I'm still friends with my high school girlfriend. We were talking about that.
And we were saying. I wish I was.
We were saying to each other, we were saying, why was everybody else having trouble getting laid? Really? But we had each other, yeah. Throughout all of high school? Well, no, there were different girlfriends.
Different girlfriends. Oh, my God.
I had one. And when she dumped me, I've not to this day ever been sadder.
To this day. So that's why it's, you know, that brain that you have, it's just your brain is so bad.
And you have access to adult things is the problem. So, I mean, I feel like I can't.
I remember in college. And you're pushing back adolescence.
I mean, really, just 200 years ago, at 15, you'd be raising a family. I mean, that's the insane thing.
200 years ago? Yeah. We pushed adolescence back.
Oh, I see, yes, yes. Oh, God, yes.
I mean, we treat people who are, I mean, we're now going to directly contradict what we were just saying before. The other problem is, one problem is that people stay children until they're 27.
The other problem is we treat people like they're children they're 27. So we're contradicting ourselves, but I think both are true.
No, I don't think so. We indulge it.
Yeah, we really indulge it, yeah. We indulge it, and it's not good.
It's funny because it's not good for anybody. It ruins the parent's life because now you've got to worry about it, and you should be free after 18 years.
And it ruins the kid's life because they're not able to function on their own. Funny story about, oh, I don't know, six, seven years ago, a young lady I was seeing once said to me, and it just made me laugh out of the chair, she said, we kind of got into a really serious discussion about our past, and she said, I ran away from home when I was 18.
I'm so glad you were perished. I said, honey, you cannot run away at 18.
You're supposed to be gone by then. And that, I felt like, said it all.
And of course, she said it without irony. I mean, she really meant that.
I believe I understood this story completely. I don't even need it annotated in the least.
You're so right. And the hint was how hard I laughed at the exact right time.
You're right. But I don't know.
I'm glad you're happy. Yeah seem like you're very happy.
Doing okay. Doing all right.
You know, I left. I graduated on a plea bargain from high school.
Didn't really graduate. Really? And right after that, I left hitchhiking.
And I lived on the street, juggling homeless for two years, and called my mom and dad every day. Called them collect every day.
What do you mean living on the street? I mean. You had no home? I had no home.
I could have gone home to my parents at any moment. Any moment I could have gone home.
Now, that's the difference between our generation. I don't have quite nearly as dramatic a story as that, but I was miserable when I went off to college.
Just wanted to put my tail between my legs and go home every day. I mean, I was ostracized in the dorm.
And so whatever, it's so funny. I remember going off to college and you're thinking, again, in your stupid brain of 18, you're thinking, oh, I'm going to a completely new place where I can be a completely new person.
I was a loser in high school. I'm going to be James Bond in Ithaca, New York because...
And there was one kid who was going to Cornell from my high school. And I thought, I'm going to have to kill him because no one can be at Cornell who knows of my past because now I'm James Bond.
And of course, you have left nothing. And I mean, I wasn't there a month and I was ostracized again, which happened in high school.

So I was miserable and I so desperately wanted to get out of there.

But I didn't because, again, not to pat our generation on the back, but the pride of not going back home to the nest was even stronger than the misery. What was your relationship with your parents like? Fine.
And they would have been fine with me. I mean, I think they would have been disappointed.
But I just, what I'm saying is, we had something in us that was a little sterner, which is funny because when we were kids, it was like, oh, you kids are so soft. But compared to these kids today, we're the fucking Marines.
Yeah. You know, I used to, it's, I don't even understand it because I was, you know, I was, you know, sleeping in alleys and I was juggling to make money and I was, I didn't have any place I lived.
And yet I would call my mom, dad every day and say, I'm doing great. And they were okay with me doing it.
Where did you go to the bathroom? Public restrooms or behind trees. Behind trees? Were you in the city? I was all over this great country.
I hopped trains. Here's the problem, Bill.
Like a hobo? Yes. With a stick and a bundle tied to the end of the stick? I had a backpack from LLB.
But I hopped a train. See, here's the thing.
I was a huge Bob Dylan fan. I read about Bob Dylan.
That's no excuse. I wanted to be like Bob Dylan.
I didn't find out two years. I didn't find out for years later that Bob was lying.
When Bob said he worked in the carnival, he was lying. I worked in the carnival.
When Bob said he hopped trains, he was lying. Really? I hopped trains.
Yeah. So the Bob Dylan, if you take that two years of Bob Dylan's life that talked about in the press releases when his stuff came out, I lived it, not Bob.
Bob was from Hibby, Minnesota. Well, I like to think of it as you lived it for Bob.
For Bob, yeah. And then I also made Bob not lie because somebody did it.
Wow. So why did Bob lie? Because the story of I grew up in Hibbing from a dad who owned an appliance store and then went to University of Minnesota and dropped out and then went to New York.
And now I get famous in 15 minutes because it was instant. He got successful.
It wasn't very interesting. Well, also, I must say, and again, these are people, let's put this in perspective.
I love Dylan. I'm sure you love Bob Dylan.
We're not trashing him. I really love John Lennon.

There's a picture of him somewhere around here.

But he also had an embroidered history.

He's the one who wrote, like, working class hero.

He's a rich kid from Liverpool.

He's not rich.

Well, he was called, for Liverpool he was.

He was richer than the others.

Yes.

That's what rich means. No, it doesn't.
I don't think so. I think rich means rich.
You're rich now. You were poor then.
No, I mean, it was. He was well off in Liverpool.
The others were real working class, like the lowest sort of. Paul a little less.
Gringo was the lowest. Lowest kind of housing that you could have.
And he had a much more middle class. They weren't rich.
It was a little cottage house. But yes, it was more like in the suburbs.
And he wasn't a working class hero. No.
There was, you know, Elvis Costello had the wicked line about him. Right.
Was it a millionaire? Yeah. Was it a millionaire? Oh, you know it from? Imagine no possession.

Yeah, imagine.

Wow, you know you're almost Costello.

Well, I just knew where we were going.

You know the song?

I do.

What song?

What is it called?

Oh, the other side of summer.

Oh, the other side of summer?

The other side of summer.

Perfect for this time of year.

Yeah, I might have.

What a poet. This first line, the sun struggles up another beautiful day.
The sun struggles up. Like, not all lyricists in rock and roll are poets.
You know, like, they don't write quite like poets. That's, yeah, was it a millionaire who said, imagine no possessions? A poor little schoolboy who said, we don't need no lessons.
That's a shot at Pink Floyd. It certainly is.
Yeah. And we don't need no education.
I beg to differ. Right.
But so you were a carny and a bum? So interesting. I would go, I would get hungry, and I would do shows to try to get money on the street by juggling.
And so the— And I would do stand-up and bars and anything I could do. So the— But all I needed to do was make, you know, five bucks a day, and you can do that street juggling.
So hapless civilians who encountered you would give you small change to make you go away? Well, I was actually did a good job of the show. By the time I got to be 20, I had a really great street show.
I was just going to say, don't street show guys like that make a lot of money? The amount that I made would knock you over. Then why were you living in the alley? Because that was two years after when I learned to do that.
Then, I see. Then I was living in a great place.

See, at least when I... When I went, I was working streets in Philadelphia

down at the Head House Square,

and I was juggling for money,

and I was making a lot

because I was doing $300 to $500 a show,

and I was doing five shows a day, and I was working Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. So I went to an accountant, tax guy, and I said to him, I said to him, you know, I'm making all this money, and it's all in cash.
Shouldn't I be paying taxes? And he said, how much money are you making? And I kept notes and everything. You still have every dime I made and every street show is written down.
I showed him all that. And he said, this is the amount of money you say you make juggling on the street? I said, yes, it is.
He said, if you bring this to the IRS, they're going to think you're a drug dealer. And then he paused and said, I think you're a drug dealer.
Yeah, you need a stripper accountant. Exactly.
They can tell you how to hide cash. I just had so much fucking cash.
I mean, I was absolutely in the stripper market. I mean, we just had boxes of cash.
Oh, my God. I did not.
I mean, my version of you were living on the street. Well, you were a drug dealer.
I was a drug dealer. Exactly.
I was a drug dealer. Well, a pot dealer.
In college, we sold whatever our dealer had, which was, quite frankly, everything except heroin. I never dealt heroin, and I'm proud of that.
But when I got to New York, I mean, I also would have been on the street, except I got a rent-free situation, which was, you could find this in the back of the Village Voice, and you did something for somebody. The first two interviews I went on, I realized after way too long, I was being interviewed by an old queen who wanted me to do something that I did not want to do.
And I finally got a place on the Upper East Side living with an ambassador.

And I had to fucking be the basic au pair for his kids.

And I fucking hate kids.

It might have been better to be on the street.

But that's what I did.

I took the fucking kids to school.

Who would hire you?

Who the fuck?

Who ever this ambassador?

I mean, put him in jail now. I know.
No, I was a good actor, I guess. I mean, I convinced them, and I was supposed to speak French to them, and I didn't really do that.
But I brought them to school. I picked them up.
I took them to their stupid activities. I was supposed to be, look, it didn't, nothing bad happened, but they were, I think, a little disappointed.
They were expecting someone who was going to be more engaged with the kids. But they wanted someone who was.
More engaged than you would be with the kids. I mean, let me take that in for a moment.
But they wanted a guy because they wanted someone who could bodyguard them. You know, they didn't want.
When I think bodyguard, you're the top of the list. Whether, I'll tell you.
Hey, those kids were never kidnapped. I respect you.
And this was a controversial country. I respect you as much as anybody.
But I would never hire you as a bouncer, bodyguard, or au pair. Those are three jobs you will not get from Penn Jillette.
Okay? If you are completely destitute and you call up your buddy Penn, I might be able to give you some coin. I might be able to hire you.
But those are not three jobs you will get. Got it? You're so right.
Write it down. You're so right.
No, you're so right. I could add a few more, but we'll stay with those three.

I'm not a bodyguard, and I wasn't an au pair.

But they wanted, I guess, a man to take their kids and watch over them,

and they were never once kidnapped or killed.

I mean, and this is New York City, and I was always there,

even though it was very early in the morning, and I was always there,

even though it was very early in the morning, and I had barely gotten to sleep yet, coming home from the clubs. But it was on the Upper East Side.
I could walk to the comic strip, and I could walk to Catch a Rising Star. And I did.
And I was like the Lincoln of comedy. I always would walk miles to borrow a joke.
But, you know, I don't know. Would it be great to be young again? Yeah, but not to deal with that shit, to deal with the things we dealt with.
You have to be young. I mean, why do you think they put them in the army? You need someone who is able physically and mentally to put up with just really rough conditions.
I mean, we wouldn't survive at this time in our life. Are you telling me that you and I wouldn't do great in Marine boot camp? Is that what you're claiming? Or sleeping in an alley or dealing with children.
I couldn't get them to disagree with me too much on go, so I'll go this, we can go into boot camp thing, see if you'll disagree with me there. So what do you think your 70s are going to be like? Where do you think, like you're 69.
By the way, I'll be 69 next year, so we're very close.

And it's funny.

This has come up a couple of times in conversation.

Whenever you say 69, everybody has the same reaction.

Like, oh, you know, elbow in the ribs.

As if anyone ever really did 69.

It's the most overrated sex position.

It's the fucking beta max of fucking.

Everybody tried it once.

They didn't like it. It's impossible to do.
I tried it, you know, and I couldn't do it. I could stick up for it a little bit.
I've enjoyed it many times. Yeah.
Well, once again, you have qualities I lack. I've enjoyed it.
It's different for me because I'm taller than you. Well, I wasn't suggesting we do it together.
I'm just telling you it would be different because I'm taller than you. I mean, I remember asking some guest, some woman guest I had here, I can't remember who it was.
I said, if a guy is doing the alphabet, can you tell, like, can you tell what letter he's on? Well, this is Kafka's in the penal colony, right?

Kafka's short story in the penal colony.

I know the story.

The prisoners don't know what crime they've committed until they etch it into their back.

So you could-

Until they what?

Until they etch it with needles in the prisoner's back.

That's how they find out what they're guilty of,

is being able to feel it in their back.

So what you're saying is, this is the oral sex equivalent. You can do messages that way, probably more efficient than needles in the back.
Anybody who can make that analogy to Kafka does not belong in the nut chair. That's all I'm going to say.
I'm going to change your chair. It's all you have now.
You only have the nut chair. You have devolved.

Right.

Who wants anything but the nut chair?

I know, I know.

The whole story is not about the nut chair.

It's about the kindness in your face.

But, I mean, one thing about you, you were always just interesting.

Like, well, that's an interesting guy.

That's why we wanted you on the show.

In the nut chair.

There's a guy who's always thinking about stuff.

Thank you. just interesting like well that's an interesting guy that's why we wanted you on the show you know like there's a guy there's a guy who's always thinking about stuff i don't have to agree but mostly i do i mean i feel like we really have come around to very similar ways i mean we're both atheists yeah but when you come when you're able the idea that i would even entertain animal rights 10 years ago was totally outside.
What did you have against animals? Nothing against animals. I just thought, I mean, the very simple answer, if you'd asked me for a facile answer to that, I would say, first, have every child on earth fed, clothed, sheltered, and eating, and then we'll all work together on the mountain gorillas.
Oh, shut up. That's no long.
No, don't say shut up. I did shut up.
I just told you I changed my mind from this point of view, and you just said you should change your mind. Oh, good.
Okay. You've already won that.
Sorry. Sorry.
Sorry. Me too.
Me too. You never got me too'd, did you? Only by the grace of God, I didn't.
No. You're a nice guy.
You never did bad shit with women. No.
No. I didn't realize you were such a cathode in the pussy beaker when you were young.
You know, I'll tell you. I will now give you the secret to getting late in high school.
It's a little late, pal. I know.
I know. Fuck smart girls.
I could have. I wish I could have had the courage, yes, to at least just react to the girls.
There was a couple of girls who were sweet on me. Like, if I could have just reacted to it, I couldn't even do that.
We are about the same age. Yes.
It was the girl with the baggy black sweater and hair part in the middle carrying around Henry Miller. Believe me, under that sweater, everything was beautiful.
No, there was a girl. There was a girl so long ago.
Was it eighth grade? And there was a Sadie Hawkins dance, which you asked. And she asked me out to this thing, and I still couldn't say yes.
Yeah, well, that's, yeah, boy, that's sad. All I'm doing today is agreeing with you.
I made up for it, but, I mean, it is, I mean, youth is just so hard. I mean, I understand, like, why people in many cultures for most of human history and somewhat into today have many, many children because they anticipate that a fair number will not make it.
But also. Because they're just so fucking dumb.
In agriculture, the more children you have, the better it is. Yes, because three of them are going to get kicked by a horse.
But also, they help around the farm.

Once you get out of agriculture, children are just a liability.

Right.

I've always said that.

Children are just a liability.

Because you're not a farmer, is that correct?

I am not a farmer. If you were a farmer, you might see it differently.

I've got one crop out there that I think qualifies. I'm not really the farmer around here, but it is growing well.
But, yeah. So when you're, like, married with kids, I always hear about, like, date night.
Yeah. Is that a thing? Like, when you carve out a specific? We try to do that a little bit, but the truth is I am always working.
Always working? We grab it every time we can. My other question about marriage is always like, how do you know when to do it? Like, if you can always do it.
Like, for me, sex always had to be an event. Like, I always had trouble with that.
Like, how can it be an event if it's ever present? You know, like, how do you know when to throw down? I think we really, I was thinking about if I built a time machine, killing Hitler, buying Microsoft. Now I think it's going back and talking to you in eighth grade.
I think that is what I would do. I think that from the future, Pev would appear and say, listen, Bill, let's talk about the Sadie Hawkins dance, because this is going to have repercussions for the rest of your motherfucking life.
Butterfly effect. Yeah, exactly.
We cannot. Possibly.
You get me laid in high school, and I'm telling you. No problems in Gaza.
Bird flu is now wiped out the whole world. Or no problems in Gaza.
Yeah. It could have happened.
We don't know. So that's what I would do now.
Let Hitler live. Go back and help Bill.
I did a joke in last week's

monologue that I thought was like such a

combination of the

old and

what's the newest.

Because I'm always doing Johnny Carson

in my monologue. And I don't usually

do, it's so hot, but it was the first

day of summer.

And there was some funny one.

So hot yesterday

that Jew haters

were protesting

without the mask.

It was like

a Johnny beginning

and then an ending

he would never do.

You don't think

Johnny would do that?

Jew haters, no.

You did that show.

Was it?

Can I show a lot?

I have a story that's sadder. Sadder than your story of eighth grade Sadie Hawkins.
Oh, my God. It's horrible.
Tonight Show story? What's that? A Tonight Show story? Yeah, it's terrible. Johnny Carson asked us to go on The Tonight Show, or we were, you know, Fred, whatever, asked us to go on The Tonight Show.
And we were going to do The Water Tank, where I'm doing a card trick and Teller drowns in the water tank. I think I've seen that.
Yeah, yeah. We did it a million times.
Right. So it's a great trick.
We did it first on Saturday Night Live. So we're going to do it on Carson.
And to me, because I was an idiot, the most important part was leaving Teller dead. So I can't find the card.
I can't find the card. It's a signed card.
And then I teller drowns. I turn around his dead body.
And then on his face is the signed card. Miracle.
And he's still dead. So we said, I'm going to say Johnny, but it wasn't a direct conversation with Johnny.
We said to the Johnny people, we'll leave Teller dead and go to the break.

And they got back to us and said, Johnny says he wants you to open the tank.

Teller comes out.

He waves.

We go to commercial break.

I said, it's not funny if Teller isn't dead going to commercial break.

And they said, Johnny does not want to go to commercial break with Teller dead. I said, Teller's not dead.
It's a trick. And he's a magician.
Right. Johnny Carson's the most famous I started as a magician guy.
He just said, for this show, we don't want to go to commercial with a dead guy. So we said, he's, this is my show.
And we said, this is our trick. Wow.
So then they say, Johnny says he really wants you on the show. He really doesn't want that on his show.
So here's what he said to do. Jay Leno is filling in hosting.
Come on and do the trick exactly the way you want. So you have your integrity and I have mine.
Great. And we said, fabulous.
And then we did it with Jay and changed the trick. You changed the trick.
We did a different trick because we couldn't ship the water tanks. We did a whole different trick that would have been fine with Johnny.
And Johnny, we became friends after he retired. Yeah, he's a magician.
He loves it. Yeah, and he's also a skeptic.
And although I think it's safe to say now, you could say he was an atheist. I don't know, but he seems like the type.
He said it to me. He did? Many times.
So you were friends with him. Yeah.
That's awesome. I called him up, and he called me up because he was a real fan of bullshit.
He liked our show bullshit. Oh, I was too.
And he called me up, and he said, I just want to tell you, I think bullshit is the best show on television. That's awesome.
That's awesome. You know, Johnny, I don't know if you knew this, but the Tonight Show is also on television.
And that was a better show. And from there, we became—I have another sad story that you can think about when you're lamenting the eighth grade.
So we did the movie called The Aristocrats, which you want. Yes, of course.
And Johnny Carson loved the joke, and we were talking. And when we were working on the movie, I was calling Johnny and talking about the movie, which he would not be in because he was retired.
And I didn't even know. I never even asked him.
Yeah, yeah. And Johnny said to me, would you do me a favor? You're going to go to Sundance.
When you're done at Sundance, do you have a couple days? Can you fly down to LA? And can you and Paul of Provenza, can you show me the aristocrats in my home? And I said, Johnny, I can't think of a greater honor. And Paul and I were over the fucking moon.
We're going to do Sundance. We're going to fly down and show it to Johnny.
Man, how beautiful would that be? And we did Sundance. It was very well received.
The next morning, Prevents and I met at a Starbucks to have a hot chocolate to celebrate because he's working with a child so we don't go out drinking like grownups should do. So we're having a hot chocolate.
And my phone rings. And I was going to just ignore it.
And it was Randy, Amazing Randy. And I said to Paul, it's Amazing Randy.
He doesn't call me often. This might be important.
And I pick up the phone, and Randy is sobbing, uncontrollably sobbing. And I said, Randy, what is it? And he said, Johnny.
Johnny's dead. And I said.
I fucked up your weekend. Fucked up my weekend.
And I said to Paul, Johnny Carson died. And Vance and I didn't say another word.
He just went and added to the end of the movie for Johnny Carson. You know, next time a starving homeless guy asks me for change, I'm going to tell him that story.
I'm going to say, buddy, we all have problems and yours are not the worst. Yeah.
I bet you Johnny was such a fan because, you know, he was, he melded magic and comedy, which they not all do, which you guys probably did more than anybody. I could, I could.
I mean, you were always, I mean, that's why you have these records in Las Vegas. It's like, because you did something, you put a dimension to it and, you know, a wit to it.
Well, thank you. That, like, I don't know if you want to, like, talk about other magicians.
I mean, I play in the David Copperfield Theater when I play at the MGM Grand now.

I play in the Penn and Teller Theater, just so you know. No, I understand.
Just so you know. No, I do understand.
Right. It's easier to find when your name is on it.
But I've heard some of these magicians really phone it in. Huh, have you?

And I'm sure, do you have a club?

Like, do you, no, like.

Oh, we all get together.

You must, come on, because only you can kind of understand. Oh, sure.

Really?

Like, like every night you and Jon Stewart and Dennis Miller

just get together.

Yeah, that's, that's the threesome.

Well, that's the threesome you just suggested with me. I understand.
I know, I know, I know. And I even could map those three, by the way.
What do you do? Like, I could never live in Las Vegas. I love it for a weekend.
I was just there. I don't gamble.
I don't drink. I don't smoke.
I go home and read. So it doesn't matter that I'm in love.
It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter.
I care less about where I am than anybody. How far is your commute from...
22 minutes. 22 minutes.
So you live out in Henderson? Actually, the other side. Summerlin.
Whatever it is. Yeah.
I could talk all night with you, but it's been too long and it's been too long and it's also been never i know because i never really this one one thing one reason i love this thing is i get to talk to

people and request people to come here so that i can get to know somebody i just had ray romano

here same thing somebody i should have been friendly there just wasn't enough time they

said you've known bill for 33 years right right and then? No, I know. They said, how close are you to Bill? I said, I think we've talked, not on camera, 45 minutes.
Yeah. And I say this also to many people who have been here recently.
Jerry Seinfeld and I just said the same thing. But it's just the truth.
Like, when do you talk to people?

When you're working.

That's all.

We have to.

You just said it before.

I work all the time.

Like, what compels us?

What motivates us?

What gets us to be in this situation, which we would love?

You've got to be working.

Which we would love anyway, is that there's a camera in the wall.

And I'm going to pee.

Okay.

Great to see you. Great to see you.
You're out of the nutshell. Oh, good.
I'm good. But I'll be back in it another time, I hope.
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