Armie Hammer | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Speaker 1 If they could have nailed someone like me, it would have been such a boon for the LAPD. I could not agree more.

Speaker 1 Well, although I hear you're broke now. Yep.
Where's the money? It's so complicated.

Speaker 1 Hey. Hey, buddy.
Army.

Speaker 1 Army. How you living, my man?

Speaker 1 How do I look like a friend? Struggling. Pretty, yes.
Well, I I mean, this is not exactly,

Speaker 1 this is the down and dirty party house that I always had, but so great to meet you because I have to tell you, all day long, wherever I go, people are always mistaking me for you.

Speaker 1 It's like, hey, Army Hammer. And I'm like, no,

Speaker 1 we look very much alike, but I'm about a half an inch shorter. And it happens to me all day.
You know, if I had a dollar for every time I heard that, I wouldn't even care if I was canceled.

Speaker 1 I'd be rolled.

Speaker 1 I hadn't heard. What happened? You know,

Speaker 1 it's just one of those things. It's going to happen to everybody.
Just wait. Well, that's true.

Speaker 1 I was doing a radio interview yesterday, and a guy said to me, what people say to me all the time, which just makes me laugh.

Speaker 1 They go, Bill, I think you're like one of the only, maybe the only one or one or two people who are uncancelable, which I said, I could get myself canceled in the next 10 seconds on this interview.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's interesting, though, because I've had conversations with people about this, like what makes someone uncancelable? What is that kind of thing?

Speaker 1 I don't know that it ever exists, but there is something that is unique in this space more so than in TV or anything like that. Because it's like you're direct to consumer.

Speaker 1 It has a lot to do with identity politics.

Speaker 1 Some people will hate this, but I mean, we, especially me, even more than you in a way, because I'm not just white, male, heterosexual, but old.

Speaker 1 What? It's not so funny. No, I didn't laugh.
No, I was laughing at the white part.

Speaker 1 But I'll tell you three people who

Speaker 1 would have to do something like beyond outrageous to get canceled.

Speaker 1 Beyonce.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Michelle Obama.
Right. And Oprah Winfrey.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying you couldn't cancel them or that they are in any way, any of them are the type of person who ever would do something horrible because they're not, which is part of the reason why they're so lionized.

Speaker 1 They are great people. Sure.

Speaker 1 But I know for a fact, and I'm not going to say which one, but I know one of them

Speaker 1 from a very close source is at least a potty mouth. Okay.
I think I know which one this is. It probably is all of them.
Yeah, I just know about that one. Yeah.
And who isn't?

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 anyway, you know,

Speaker 1 this is called Club Random, but somebody suggested it could be called Club Rehabilitation because between this and my other show,

Speaker 1 I like I had Andrew Cuomo on my real-time about, I don't know, six months ago. And, you know, I said to my staff,

Speaker 1 and it was a giant deep dive into, and we'll never know what happened behind closed doors with two people, but I said, just stick to what is irrefutable.

Speaker 1 And by that, I mean, it changed people's perception of him a lot.

Speaker 1 Because one story gets out there and then it's a narrative. And I have to tell you, in your case, I watched the House of Hammer doc

Speaker 1 and read Jamie Kirchik's article

Speaker 1 and this is what fucking infuriates me so much about the media is like I never trust you and for good reason you do not deserve to be trusted you never tell me the whole story if you just watch that documentary

Speaker 1 I mean there's a lot of things in Jamie's piece

Speaker 1 what which one was that about a year ago

Speaker 1 Yeah, maybe a little more. Okay, this is actual investigative journalism.
Now, I mean, I'm sure there are women listening to this right now, like they hate me already. I'm talking to a monster.

Speaker 1 It's like, well, wait, who's the monster?

Speaker 1 Just look at the facts. And you certainly have things to

Speaker 1 own. You know, you're kind of a sick puppy in a few ways.

Speaker 1 But yeah, you owned it in the article. But I'm just saying, just look at the facts.
Just look at what is in the article that is irrefutable. That's all I'm interested in.
Things you can't argue about.

Speaker 1 Texts that see.

Speaker 1 You know, firsthand, not someone's opinion. Just by that, they really did leave a lot out of the documentary.
I mean, I had one impression when I saw that and another impression.

Speaker 1 And one is more complete. Jamie's thing doesn't leave out anything.
It just adds the fullness.

Speaker 1 And the documentary just, it reminded me of the Woody Allen documentary that HBO did. And I love my brothers and sisters at HBO, but I didn't like that documentary on Woody Allen.

Speaker 1 It was called Alan v. Farrow, and it was not.
It should have been called Mia's Story. Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah. I mean, the thing about these documentaries, though, is like

Speaker 1 there really is,

Speaker 1 I think you're taking a, it's a bit of a journalistic stretch to call them documentaries now.

Speaker 1 I could go out and make a documentary and could just exercise every single bit of confirmation bias from the very beginning to the end.

Speaker 1 And any bit of information that comes up that I don't like, I go, no, no, no, no, but let's focus on this. And the next thing you know, you've got

Speaker 1 this thing that, you know, you put out there as a documentary. People go, oh, it must be true.

Speaker 1 Well, that's interesting that you use that term confirmation bias because this is, again, not to make it all about me, Army, but it is. It's my show.
We're in your house. We're in my house.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, it's so hard to work to the dwindling number of people who want a dispassionate objective view. People don't even want that.
They want to be in their own bubbles.

Speaker 1 They hear that all the time, the criticism, oh, the right is in the bubble, they are. Oh, and the left is their bubble.
And it's like, yeah, and I'm happy here.

Speaker 1 Don't

Speaker 1 give me gray airs with throwing things at me that I don't already believe.

Speaker 1 I mean, I think that's what you mean when you're talking about confirmation bias, right? 100%.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is the issue with sort of like politics in general that I see right now is like, you can have someone who is a staunch supporter of either side, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, I have family members that are on this side, family members that are on that side. Is it about you or politics in general?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 kind of, it's all kind of part and parcel as I see it, right? Because it's like, this is what we're dealing with as a culture and as a society right now.

Speaker 1 I don't want to be challenged. I don't want to be wrong.

Speaker 1 And I think for a lot of people who believe one thing and have been vocal about it, whatever that one thing might be, if a bit of information comes to them and they all of a sudden go, oh,

Speaker 1 I might have misjudged this one. I might have been wrong.
It's upsetting. It's upsetting, but then also

Speaker 1 there's an element to it where it's like that person now has to admit that they were wrong, which I think is a very difficult thing for people to do.

Speaker 1 We see it now with the Biden situation.

Speaker 1 All the people who are out front, me among them, of course, always out front, burden

Speaker 1 Biden. Like I was always saying ageism, I'm against it, but it is a case-by-case and the credibility of it relies on when the case is, you are too old to do it, you got to own up to it.

Speaker 1 The way the media just did a 360 on this after that debate from hell.

Speaker 1 Like without any apology of like, oh yeah, we kind of knew this for the last year or two. And we didn't really say anything and we pretended it was going to be okay.

Speaker 1 and we could just run out the clock with Biden and then just turn on a dime and no acknowledgement. Same thing with COVID from the lab.

Speaker 1 I see the New York Times did a big piece a couple of Sundays ago about COVID, you know what? We really looked at this deep dive and yeah, it probably came from a lab.

Speaker 1 Okay, well I was saying that three years ago, or at least that it wasn't a political thing and it should be neutral, but it certainly is at least a 50-50.

Speaker 1 No acknowledgement of you're the paper that sort of more than any was saying, well, it's kind of racist if you say it came from a lab. And no acknowledgement of that.

Speaker 1 And no acknowledgement of that some people did get it right. Well, it was a cancelable offense, I remember.
When people were saying,

Speaker 1 this is a lab-grown virus, people would go, how dare you? You know, and it's.

Speaker 1 Which ironically is so much more racist to think that it came from the wet markets.

Speaker 1 That to me would be racist. Like, boy, these people will put anything in their mouth.
Yeah. They got it from eating bats.
And you're like, okay, yeah, that somehow works. Where is a high-tech lab?

Speaker 1 I mean, it could happen. Well, of course, it was inevitable that it would happen.
But,

Speaker 1 well,

Speaker 1 how did we get on to COVID? Oh, about bias and,

Speaker 1 you know, not owning up when you do a 360 and not willing to look at the materials.

Speaker 1 I mean, the reason why it was great when Cuomo was on, I thought, was because, again, just sticking to what's irrefutable, when I read it, the audience laughs. And laughter is,

Speaker 1 as we know, involuntary. You can't force it.
All comedians know this.

Speaker 1 People can be as thrilled to see you as anything. And in one minute, if you're not actually making them laugh, they're not laughing.
But when they do laugh, people say, okay, it rang true.

Speaker 1 That's how that reads. It rang true.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And whether it's Cuomo, whether it's anybody else who experienced something like that, you know, when this information comes out and people go, oh, actually, like, it looks like this is more complicated than we thought.

Speaker 1 Or we might have jumped on a bandwagon or, you know, we grabbed our tar and pitchforks maybe a little too quickly here. Well, we've seen it with many.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And we're going to continue to see it because for every single person that gets thrown into the fire as a sacrifice to this movement, all they're doing is adding fuel to the fire.

Speaker 1 That fire is just going to get bigger. And the person who threw them on the fire might think, I'm doing this as an act of self-preservation,

Speaker 1 or they might think, I'm doing this out of an act of moral superiority. But they're grabbing someone and they're throwing them into this fire.

Speaker 1 And this fire is going to continue to grow and get bigger and bigger until it just burns through everything.

Speaker 1 That's the, to me, the essential difference between old school liberals, which I mostly count myself as, and woke. And I know people don't like that term.
It used to be only good things, and I agree.

Speaker 1 But then it,

Speaker 1 sorry, migrated to this, you call it whatever you want.

Speaker 1 But the difference between maybe it's generational old school liberals and younger people who think they're liberal or left, but really it's a lot about, you know, they call themselves social justice warriors.

Speaker 1 They really just want to, they think they're warriors because they're like hitting send on their phone. Keyboard warriors.
Keyboard warriors, you're right. I've heard that term too.

Speaker 1 And they just think they're somehow ridding the world

Speaker 1 of evil. And they're, you know, like as if they're facing the fire hoses in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963 or something.
I mean, people really did put themselves on the line and get rid of real evils.

Speaker 1 And there are still evils in the world. I don't think you're one of them.
Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 you did some gnarly things. Listen, I needed an adjustment.
Like, there was, you know, there was, there was some shit on the bottom. And do you think you got it now?

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 you don't feel that, like, if you, if it all didn't happen,

Speaker 1 would you miss the kinky part of your sex life?

Speaker 1 Here's what I think would have happened had none of this gone on. And, like, the cataclysmic tectonic shift in my life wouldn't have happened.
My life would have kept going exactly as it was. Right.

Speaker 1 And I know that that would ultimately only lead in one place, and that's death. Do you literally see it as a blessing in disguise? 1 million percent.
Yeah. Really? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 I experienced a

Speaker 1 ego death, a career death, a financial death, all of these things. Right.
And Young talks about this. Joseph Campbell talks about this.
You got to die. And once you die, you can then be reborn.

Speaker 1 The Phoenix. Exactly.
A Phoenix isn't going to rise if there's no ashes. That affleck has a giant phoenix.
I've seen it.

Speaker 1 In real life? No, no, no. I've seen pictures of it.
Yeah. That would have been a good story.
I know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Listen, it got pretty crazy in the heydays. Now, the best line was Jennifer Garner when they asked her about it.
And she said, I think in this metaphor, I'm the ashes.

Speaker 1 But the thing is, is about this, like my life was going on a certain way. And there was,

Speaker 1 it's, it's Newton's laws, right? An object in motion is going to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. My life was in motion.
I was making a lot of money.

Speaker 1 I was drinking a lot. I was doing a lot of drugs.
I was partying hard. I was being real fast and loose about what I put in text messages.

Speaker 1 And I was also engaging in risky behavior that, if you really think about it, was stupid. You know what? Maybe the worst thing you did was putting out a video of you driving drunk.
Oh,

Speaker 1 I mean, that's really irresponsible. 100%.
100%. I mean, 100%.

Speaker 1 The women thing. To be fair, it was MDMA.
Really? Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 I'm a little hazy. I know that there was a video of me in a car doing MDMA.
I saw it in the documentary. Right, right, right.

Speaker 1 To be fair, I was in the passenger seat. Oh, you were? I was in the passenger seat.
Oh, I thought you were driving. Yeah, no, no, no, no.
I was in the passenger seat. Well, then no harm, no phone.

Speaker 1 Yeah, see?

Speaker 1 I mean, who hasn't done MDMA in the past? Who hasn't been shocked? Who's shocked on MDMA? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Well, then, no, I'm glad we cleared that up.
It looked like you were driving, but that would be worse. But yeah.
I mean, look, but like, maybe I was.

Speaker 1 I'm also 100% sure that I definitely drove irresponsibly. Right.
For sure.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I did all kinds of crazy shit that, like, if I really think about it now, I kind of look at it and I go, there's no way I didn't expect this, even unconsciously, subconsciously.

Speaker 1 Like, this, I, I was, it was self-destruction. It's, it's almost even more inevitable than that.
In that if you took a guy, I mean, if they were making a movie star in a lab, they'd make you.

Speaker 1 Um, plus, you're back, I mean, you look like that.

Speaker 1 The wealth of the family wealth. And also, when your family is prominent, you sort of have a sophistication and a confidence that other kids don't very often, you know.

Speaker 1 I mean, you just have walked through life on a certain different plane. So, you know, you have all this, and I'm sure the women are throwing themselves at you.
Like, at some point,

Speaker 1 like, it's going to to get harder to find a vein.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It just is.
Like, I get it. You know, it was act.
My life is actually,

Speaker 1 I'm more lucky because I, I would have gone, I don't know if I would have done what you did, but I would have gone somewhere weird if it had been that easy for me.

Speaker 1 Whereas it was always, I always thought it was hard. As much as I did well with women, it was like never like just like that.
And that's, that turned out when I look back, I'm glad that's the case.

Speaker 1 I'm glad I had to work. 100%.
Yeah. Because there's also the flip side of that, too, is,

Speaker 1 oh, um,

Speaker 1 there's the dopamine aspect of it. Sure.
Right. You do one thing and the first time you do it, you're like, whoa, like that just ticked every box.

Speaker 1 You tried again and you're like, that was pretty good. And you try it again and you're like, yeah, okay.
Well, how can we ramp this experience up? Right.

Speaker 1 And the thing about being a successful actor or being a public figure in any way in the time of social media is like, it gets real tricky real fast because you have people reaching out to you.

Speaker 1 So you're not pursuing anything. I mean, it's, it's coming to you, and it's people sending incredibly explicit videos.
Oh, yeah. People saying you can do X, Y, and Z to me.
One thing, again,

Speaker 1 I'm going to keep saying this, and people will still hate me, me, but

Speaker 1 sticking to the irrefutable.

Speaker 1 When you see the documentary, you see only certain parts of the texting between the women who are mad at you and you. And Jamie Kurchik, great reporter, prints the full both sides.

Speaker 1 When you read theirs,

Speaker 1 I think, I'm thinking of, I don't know, if it's all of them, there's three or four prominent women in this. It's not like eight.
Oh, one of the women in the documentary, I've never even met before.

Speaker 1 Your aunt? Yeah, I wish. I wish.
God bless her.

Speaker 1 No, but like one of the women who claims that

Speaker 1 I've never met her. So it's right.
And she has it again. I'm not taking anybody's side here.
I'm just giving you the facts.

Speaker 1 She had a text to you,

Speaker 1 something like,

Speaker 1 I'm going to be your slave.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And another one, oh my God, the potty mouth on this one, I mean, they're worse than you. It was like, I want to be your fuck puppet, and I want you to fill all my holes and

Speaker 1 choke me. And yeah, there's, I mean,

Speaker 1 I don't know who put who up to this. Maybe you, you

Speaker 1 prompted them because they knew this about you or because other stuff there. I think a lot of it is this.
Here's how it is on my level.

Speaker 1 Thank God no women have ever wanted me to, you know, enslave them. I don't have it going on like that.
But women over the years, especially. After loss, Bill.

Speaker 1 I know, exactly. But after I was successful, especially, like a lot of women, when they're trying to get with you, they say something,

Speaker 1 some variation of, I'm into women. I like girls.
I'm into threesomes. And I love to say to them, no, you're not.
Right. Yeah.
Because you're not. You're saying it because you think I want to hear it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You're putting that chum in the water because you think that's what I want a woman to say to me is I'm into girls.
But I mean, some people.

Speaker 1 For you, it was like even on a different, that was taken to that level, like, oh, he wants. But some people are genuinely into those.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. And so it's like, you know,

Speaker 1 and it's, it's, it's, it's very easy for, let's say a woman comes up to you and she says, oh, I'm, I'm also into girls. And, and you say, hypothetical situation.

Speaker 1 Well, let's, let's experiment with that. Let's have some fun.
And you have a situation with this girl and another girl, right? But now this other girl catches your attention.

Speaker 1 This original girl who said she's into girls feels left out, feels like you didn't give her enough eye contact or whatever it might be. And all of a sudden, you have a scorned person.

Speaker 1 This is. Trust me, I've been with girls who actually are into other girls.

Speaker 1 But I also know, and I, you know, one answer to like, I'm into girls, I'm into threesomes is no, you're probably not. You're probably just saying that because you think I want to hear it.

Speaker 1 The other answer is genuinely, I lived that life. I did it.
We all do it when we're like 32 or something and you have a little enough to go on to get it.

Speaker 1 And I never thought it really worked.

Speaker 1 My line was always, it's better for the ego than the dick.

Speaker 1 I, you know, and it's so true.

Speaker 1 Unless it happens with two people who you both met at exactly the same moment, which I'm sure for someone like you, it does.

Speaker 1 does, one person you know, even if it's just a little longer, you're right, they get jealous. You look into someone's eyes.

Speaker 1 Someone is always, first of all, not getting enough dick because I only have one dick. It's a good one, but there's only one.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And someone's always not getting enough, I don't know, intensity. And yeah, it just doesn't work.
And you don't need it to work. I never really missed it.
The idea

Speaker 1 itself is great. Right.

Speaker 1 Just do it with one person who you're really into, and you're good to go. Yeah.
The idea is always better than the execution. I mean, I got the feeling with the women.

Speaker 1 I mean, the main one who talks is this Courtney.

Speaker 1 Yeah, in the documentary. Yeah.
Okay. And again, half the story.

Speaker 1 Sorry to butt your bubble, people who hate this from the get-go. But again, half the story in the documentary because, I mean, I saw her text messages in Jamie's piece.

Speaker 1 And they're they're very like, I want you to squeeze my head off.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is the thing with these text messages, right? Like any of these text messages are sort of like

Speaker 1 any bedroom talk that you have with a partner. In the moment.
I never say that. I never say that.
Right. Whatever it is you say, whether it's

Speaker 1 like, okay, it's this. You walk in on your parents having sex.
It feels awful. You're like, this is disgusting.
I can't believe this. This has ruined my life.

Speaker 1 But, like, they're not doing anything wrong. They're just having sex and enjoying each other.

Speaker 1 Like, a lot of these things, a lot of these messages that, like, look, whether or not it was like, hey, this will be a funny thing to send, or like, hey, like, or, or something where it's like, I like, we are caught in the heat of the moment.

Speaker 1 Anytime you take something like that and put it out in the sunlight, it doesn't look as good, you know? And it's like, anytime you take half

Speaker 1 the conversation,

Speaker 1 that's my completely different. But there's a reason it's half, right? There's a reason that's not.
Okay, but then you're not doing journalism.

Speaker 1 You're just a fucking hack and you have a narrative and then a narrative is not synonymous with the truth. I just always want what is the truth or as close as we can get to it.

Speaker 1 Don't give me your side of the story. I don't give a fuck about your side.
Just do your job. Just serve me, a person who wants information.
I don't care what your take is.

Speaker 1 And I feel like that, I can't even get that in the newspaper anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean I get it where it's supposed to be on the op-ed page, but it's not supposed to be on the front page. And I can't find that anymore.

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Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 this is a good microcosm of what you have to do. You can't get it just from one side.

Speaker 1 There are things that I saw in that documentary that were possibly not in the article and vice versa. But again, the big corrective to me is the article.
It's much fuller.

Speaker 1 Again, show me the whole text. Show me the exchange.
Just not one side of it.

Speaker 1 And, you know, this, again, if I had only watched the documentary, I would have thought that you were under the sword of Damocles legally right now.

Speaker 1 And then when you realize, when you read the article, again, not in the documentary, Gloria Allred, who is representing the woman, who's represented, I mean, that's sort of how she made her

Speaker 1 reputation and with mostly with very valid cases. I mean, Gloria Allred's good at her job.

Speaker 1 The woman who was accusing you of sexual assault Gloria Alred dropped her I mean when Gloria Alred drops you yeah not a good sign and that woman again irrefutable things people

Speaker 1 didn't see it in the documentary read it in the article

Speaker 1 would not sign an affidavit

Speaker 1 about the things that she claimed against you

Speaker 1 And again, something I didn't see in the documentary after she claimed this, was still following you all around Europe and like showing up like a stalker. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 again,

Speaker 1 this is the full picture. Now,

Speaker 1 if the rest of you want to just fucking believe, again, what you already believed and not actually take in new information, that you're right. I mean, I could see people just saying, yeah, but just...

Speaker 1 even all without that i hate him because he you know let's take okay let's take you carved your

Speaker 1 initial in somebody. Now, again, here's the two different sides.
The woman

Speaker 1 documentary, or some, maybe I read it all there. The woman says it was an inch deep.
Do you know how

Speaker 1 an inch? Do you know in it in the human body, how

Speaker 1 deep an inch would go? I mean, and we just, because that's the woman, excuse me, but because that's the woman saying it, it's like, oh, wow, an inch?

Speaker 1 I mean, you'd hit bone or the kidney or something, but certainly not an inch. On the other hand, what do you do that for?

Speaker 1 What do you,

Speaker 1 and important question, did you sterilize the knife? Okay, so

Speaker 1 this is part of the whole bigger picture, right? Where it's like you get in these things, you get in these moods, you get in these whatever.

Speaker 1 And like, you know, especially if you're inebriated or especially if whatever, you start to go, this is a great idea.

Speaker 1 And it's like, it's like, wait, people get tattoos of each other's initials all the time. That's so true.
This is like, and by the way, like, I'm not performing surgery. Right.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like,

Speaker 1 it's all, all of these things

Speaker 1 in a consensual relationship that were pre-discussed and all of these things that were consented to, whatever they might have been.

Speaker 1 Between two people, it's like,

Speaker 1 if we're going to be, if we're going to be liberal or even we're going to be libertarian about what people want to do, right? Two people want to do this thing. You guys go ahead and do it.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's obviously limits in terms of we want to keep people safe and things like that. But that's a very interesting part of this where it's sort of a wedge issue with the woke

Speaker 1 because they're all for always, and I'm mostly with them. on this, by the way.

Speaker 1 They like everything do it obnoxiously very often, but I'm with them on the idea that we expanding rights is a good thing and expanding our view of what

Speaker 1 anyone can be and claim to be without being ridiculous. I mean, I can't claim I'm 29, although I've seen people try that.

Speaker 1 I'm not even really down with, I can claim I'm another race, although people have certainly tried to do that.

Speaker 1 But we certainly have, you know, Facebook has, what, 56 genders that they list. So this idea that's very much in the woke culture that you can,

Speaker 1 we should not shame people for whatever they want, trans, whatever they're doing outside the just old boundaries is good.

Speaker 1 BDSM falls into that category. Sure.

Speaker 1 And in fact, again, in the article, he points out that BDSM, which stands for

Speaker 1 what does that stand for? Bonjour, dominance, sadomasochism.

Speaker 1 Bonjit, dominance, sadomasochism, and BDSM. And I think sadomasochism.
Psychomasochism. Okay.
So that kind of stuff. Could be wrong about that.

Speaker 1 I think it's called the Diagnostic Manual of,

Speaker 1 I can't remember, but it's a very famous. BDSM.
Well, no, no, it's a book. It's the psychiatry Bible.
It's called the Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorders or something.

Speaker 1 I call it the Big Book of Crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The Big Book of Crazy says BDSM is no longer considered a disorder.

Speaker 1 We look at it like trans. It's gay used to be in the DSM.
Exactly. You know, I mean, that's my point:

Speaker 1 that it's a little, it's a little squirrely for them. Yeah.
Because they're trying to, you know, you're getting hung on something that on the other side of this

Speaker 1 movie, you know, is it this that's like we don't kink shame. We don't, this is a thing, and he, it's just like being translated,

Speaker 1 but we don't shame it. Because I have a wedge for your wedge, and it's, it's this.

Speaker 1 Hello. Yeah.
let's talk it's this there's a clip for the internet yeah i it's it's

Speaker 1 i believe that someone has the right to think however they want to think behave however they want to behave and believe whatever they want to believe yeah i'm affording them the right to do that but i'm also reserving the right for myself to have my own opinion about it yeah so if you want to do whatever it is that you want to do whatever your proclivities might be, you go ahead and do that.

Speaker 1 But I get to have an opinion about this. And me having an opinion that doesn't align itself with what you're doing doesn't make me a bad person any more than it makes you wrong.

Speaker 1 No, but so if somebody looks at any behavior, mine, anyone else's, and goes, I don't like that. Fine.
No, but it's the action.

Speaker 1 You're allowed to think what you want. But it's the action that has people more upset.

Speaker 1 Right. But when again.
But then where do you draw that line? Because the action between two gay people is probably something that would make

Speaker 1 a heteronormative person

Speaker 1 who is very traditional upset as well. That's true.
I mean, that's the Kevin Spacey case a little bit. Like,

Speaker 1 it's politically incorrect to say it, but I think there is a little bit of difference between the straight world and the gay world

Speaker 1 as far as approach.

Speaker 1 And not that it's all. But all of my gay friends were like, honey, I saw saw your text messages.
That's it.

Speaker 1 They go, oh my God, if people hacked into Grindr and put Grindr chats public, none of us would have jobs anymore. You know, so it's like.

Speaker 1 You have a gay friend? One. They must be trying to fuck you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, yeah, the call-me-by-your-name thing definitely, definitely made an impact.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's just that army. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 yeah, I mean, that's where it gets interesting is that it BDSM or whatever, whatever this is,

Speaker 1 it is now like

Speaker 1 it goes in that, up on that shelf with first it was gay and then it was trans and then it was, you know, whatever. There's again, 56

Speaker 1 things you can put up there. Look at the pride flag.
I can't, I don't know what all the fucking letters are.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's like, it's like everybody who's not just man on the top of the woman, get it over with with the lights out, you know, is something else. And that's part of what you are.

Speaker 1 And like either these women, again, were the syndrome I described before of, yes, I'm into threesomes and they were just saying it for you, or they are just legitimately into this.

Speaker 1 But again, I mean, their texts are fucking dirty. I mean,

Speaker 1 and,

Speaker 1 you know, now describe for me this scene. You said everything is pre, I read a phrase in there, like CDC,

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 preconceived scenes. It was yeah, I mean, the idea.
Like, like you, you know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you negotiate, you talk, you write, like, I'm going to be, like, acting like I'm raping you, but we've talked about this before, and it's not really that because we know it's happening. Correct.

Speaker 1 And that applies to any BDSM scene that you might engage in. So you have to have the

Speaker 1 pre-production meeting. Yeah, of course.
Of course. A table reading.
You have a table read.

Speaker 1 Really? Okay, now let's see it on its feet, guys.

Speaker 1 Really? Is that how it is? No, but it's like you negotiate boundaries.

Speaker 1 You negotiate what you're comfortable with hey listen i'm gonna tell you these are the things that i like now you tell me the things that you like where is there on on our venn diagram of passion where do they overlap okay well what about this can we do this why can we do x y and z here yes but i'm not as crazy about that one so can we do that it's like it's it's a negotiation always and that's the way that but how is it specific like i'm gonna come over i'm dressed as a pirate i'm gonna uh

Speaker 1 that's your thing no

Speaker 1 i'm saying is this how it happened Like, like, tell me, walk me through like the scene that led up to the carving of the initial. Like, like you say everything was discussed.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that, that wasn't like a scene scene. Like, and I mean, but you didn't just start doing it.
No, no, no, no, no, no. It was, I mean, like, anything.
Wow, what is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Surprise.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It wasn't that.
No, no. She knew it was happening.
Yeah. And it's like something you talk about before.

Speaker 1 And like, and I was always very careful about doing that, about like being like, let's discuss what this is going to be.

Speaker 1 And then also, if you want to stop at any point, say orange, and we will pause and we'll just hold for a second or say red and we will stop stop. So you have a safe word.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 Two, one for pause, one for stop. I see.
Yeah. Pause is like, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed, but I don't want to stop.
Like, just give me a second because this is intense. And you always.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 So it wasn't like when you were driving. Correct.
Correct. Because when the cops say stop, that's a suggestion.
You actually did stop. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. All right.
But

Speaker 1 that's essential for people to engage in sort of like intense behavior. But I feel like, okay,

Speaker 1 I read you a quote from the article where you said, like, if they're not feeling good about it, I can't feel good about it. Right.

Speaker 1 But I feel like some of this stuff, they weren't feeling good about it, and it did make you feel good. Like, I feel like you were into their pain.

Speaker 1 Well, if someone is a masochist, then when they're not feeling good, they're feeling good.

Speaker 1 You know, like that's, that's, and by the way, you don't engage in stuff like this with someone who doesn't enjoy it. Right.
Like you can talk to somebody and go, right, this is what I'm into.

Speaker 1 And they can go, oh, that's interesting. I've never tried it.
I'd be interested to try it. And then all of a sudden you go, okay, well, let's, let's see how we slowly try this world for you.

Speaker 1 And that's one way to do it. Or you have the conversation with someone and they go, I'm not into that at all.
And you go, okay, then we'll have normal me on top lights off. Sex.

Speaker 1 That's fine too. It's so, it's so, it's for the for the regular mind, it's hard to process.

Speaker 1 It's almost like that, you know, that old famous joke about what did the masochist say to the sadist and back?

Speaker 1 The masochist says to the sadist, hurt me. And the sadist says, no.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 You know, it's almost like, I mean, does anybody just fuck anymore? For Christ's sake, sake, why can't you look at you? I mean, you're a good-looking guy. I mean, just

Speaker 1 to be fair, to that point, I think a lot of the behavior that I was engaging in was coming from extenuating circumstances, whether it be, you know, a certain displeasure about my own life, whether it be, you know, fueled.

Speaker 1 Your abuse.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was, I mean, that was obviously

Speaker 1 when that happened? Like 13.

Speaker 1 And how long did it go on for?

Speaker 1 I'd say about a year. Right.
It was a member of clergy, like that kind of stereotypical kind of trope. I was out front on religion.
I always said it was shit. You said it religious.

Speaker 1 That's where we are. And so,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 it was interesting, you know, and it was something, funny enough, it was something I never, ever spoke about and was never open about and never okay with and had so much shame about.

Speaker 1 Like, what does that say about me?

Speaker 1 And the answer is, it doesn't fucking say anything about me like no 13 year old is like i want to do this like it's just not the way it goes you know what i'm ashamed of they never tried yeah

Speaker 1 anyway um now that i'm canceled yeah yeah yeah we join the party it's pretty great but it is liber in a way it is liberating dude it's incredibly liberating yeah because so much of my life leading up to there was it was two things it was

Speaker 1 being preoccupied with how I was perceived, which now you don't have to care about. Once everyone just decides that they hate you, you go, oh, well, then I don't need anything from you people anyway.

Speaker 1 I guess I should just learn to be content with myself.

Speaker 1 And then you go do that. And it feels fucking amazing.
And then when anybody says anything to you afterwards, where they go, I don't like you. You go, okay, I don't care.
Right.

Speaker 1 Like, your opinion is yours and you're allowed to have it. I just don't agree.

Speaker 1 But before, I needed that. I needed that validation.
Take time. You know,

Speaker 1 like you telling me that you liked my movie made me feel good. Well, all of us in show business,

Speaker 1 this is what we have in common. Yeah.
I call it, mommy, look at me.

Speaker 1 I'm doing it. No, you're not looking.
I'm doing it now. Yeah.
That's all we're doing. You know, 100%.
When I, my show

Speaker 1 goes on at seven o'clock. I don't do social media.
So like, smart. So like my likes have to come from people who I actually know.

Speaker 1 Like when we've done an especially great show, you know, there's a bunch of people who text me or email me, like, and people watch it, you know, right when it's on, seven o'clock out here, 10 o'clock back East Friday night.

Speaker 1 And, you know, yeah, I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1 You like that? Sure. I did something.
I worked hard on it. Sure.
I want.

Speaker 1 But I think

Speaker 1 you have other things, or maybe, maybe this is an assumption, that you have other things in your life that give you that sense of self-worth. So that is an icing on the cake.

Speaker 1 Where I was before, I didn't have any of that. That was all I had.

Speaker 1 I'd be pretty not okay without the career. The career.
But I kind of had to, you know,

Speaker 1 because I never got married. Can we delineate between the career and the compliments? Yes.
So the career is the success. Yeah.
It is the, you know, I mean, this is obviously a nice house.

Speaker 1 Like, it's, it's all these things. It's respect.
It's respect.

Speaker 1 It's, it's that people, it's, you know, by the way, it's calling a a restaurant and getting a table even if that's full that's it there's there's layers to it but that are great but the most for what for the game i'm in it's relevant

Speaker 1 yeah people want to know yeah what i said about it and they trust you know a lot of people feel like that's a big responsibility yeah of course it is yeah um

Speaker 1 i speak for like

Speaker 1 there's very few people who speak not for the fringes like we were talking about before it's very easy to be in one of the bubbles you've got an automatic audience who just wants to be fed back what they already think, and it's easy to do.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to do something very different, but the people who appreciate it appreciate it on a very deep level.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 if you took that away from me,

Speaker 1 I'm not sure I wouldn't be carving my initials in people. And my initials are BM.

Speaker 1 And I hated that growing up as a kid because whenever we had to put it anywhere, the kids, I would, my face would get red, beat red with embarrassment because like, I remember we made pottery and you'd have to put your and carve your initials in it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying your initial story is any worse or better than mine. I'm just saying I really suffered when that happened because it would be BM.
And then the kids say, BM, you have his name is BM.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 To this day, I kind of don't like my name for that reason. I mean, we all have trauma.
Sure. Okay, you got fucked by a priest.
I had bad initials. Yeah, I got fucked by a priest.

Speaker 1 Kids called and said your initials out loud. We're not the same, Bill.
I'm going to call it a push.

Speaker 1 So, but it didn't seem to like, like, how old were you when you say when you got over it? Because there was a study that was done some years ago, and it was surprising to a lot of people.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people want it suppressed because it did not confirm the,

Speaker 1 you know, the politically correct opinion, which is that this is a trauma that cannot be, you know, outlived. And the truth is that most of the kids, like, they did.
They're resilient.

Speaker 1 They like, they processed it. It was bad.
It's not good that it happened, but it didn't fuck up their whole lives.

Speaker 1 I don't subscribe to the idea that there is necessarily any trauma that you can't overcome.

Speaker 1 I do subscribe to the idea that overcoming a trauma is almost always a more sort of like

Speaker 1 extended sense of pain than the initial trauma itself. Like you, you can

Speaker 1 break that down for me. Okay.
Extended. So what happened to me took a year.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Me working through it took way more.

Speaker 1 And in a lot of ways was more painful. And it's like, it's like this.

Speaker 1 You pull a muscle in your back, right? Now you're going to have to go to a massage therapist and they're going to dig into that muscle. And it's going to hurt.

Speaker 1 And it's probably going to hurt worse than your initial tweaking of your back. But they got to get in there and they got to figure out out what that is and get to the core of what that issue is.

Speaker 1 But I genuinely believe that any trauma can be worked through, and once you punch through the other side of that, what's waiting for you is always better than where you were pre-trauma.

Speaker 1 So, how do you work through trauma?

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 therapy,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 there's therapy for me has been a life-changer. But what's the what's the connection for a layman like me? I don't, I think there is one, but I don't

Speaker 1 put some meat on the bones there.

Speaker 1 The connection between the trauma and then treating women,

Speaker 1 well, being in to be a DSM,

Speaker 1 wanting to be dominant with women. I don't know exactly what the link there is.
There might be some, there might be none.

Speaker 1 The documentary would like the narrative to be, and again, I don't know if this is bullshit. It could not be bullshit because it makes sense, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

Speaker 1 Their narrative is that your family, it reminded me a lot of the girl with the dragon tattoo.

Speaker 1 Remember see that movie? Remember the family he's investigating? Sure. They're all kind of, they're rich.
Yeah, yeah. And they're all kind of weird and fucked up in their own way.

Speaker 1 This one's a Nazi and that one's a guy. And then, you know, and then one of them is.
He's killing people. One of them is men.
Yeah, the actual bad guy, Kellen Scargaard, who's a genius actor. But

Speaker 1 that's their narrative that

Speaker 1 like from your

Speaker 1 great-grandfather, who was abusive, and then through the different family members and some like the Kennedys,

Speaker 1 who are like, you know, incredible womenizers and they can't ever stop. It's just in the family tree and it comes down.
Sure. That's how they present it.
So

Speaker 1 how much do you think that's true?

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 in terms of like addictions, which like I also include process addictions into addictions, whether that be, you know, gambling, overeating, sex, whatever, whatever process addictions you use as dopamine hits.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Is there a genetic component to, you know, the passing along of addictions? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's pretty clear that we're going to see that.

Speaker 1 But this is, this is the difference, though, is

Speaker 1 it's not my fault that anyone else in my family had behaviors.

Speaker 1 It's not my fault that anyone in my family was an alcoholic.

Speaker 1 It's my responsibility to know this, and it's my responsibility to work on myself so that I don't blindly stumble into the same pitfalls that other people before me have stumbled into.

Speaker 1 And maybe there's a way where you sort of go, the buck stops here. Like, let me go and actually work on myself.
Let me go and figure out what is actually going on in here.

Speaker 1 Let me pull this machine apart and see what cog needs to be polished a little bit and put everything back together so that my kids aren't saying that I'm included in that whole chain and I'm giving my kids a fresh start.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, the one thing that I read,

Speaker 1 was it in the article about a tweet you had about

Speaker 1 like 2021 is going to be the year that's going to like kiss my ass. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I did that for sure. I mean, like, what was it? Was that just be drunk? Because that's.
Oh, I was super drunk. Okay.
And by the way, I was super drunk. I had just gotten into a fight with an ex,

Speaker 1 my ex-wife. I was in the process of negotiating a couple really big deals that were going to be great.
And like, I was, it was just hubris. And it was pride coming.

Speaker 1 That to me was something that made me think, oh, that's like what a rich kid, great-looking rich kid, would do, but I would never even think to do because that just wasn't who I, you know, I just was a loser in high school.

Speaker 1 And like, it took, you know, it took me a long time. And it's also kind of not my generation.
But by the generation. Most of that was projecting because I didn't feel that way.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, and most of my behavior was projecting. Most of my, I have to look good.
I have to have a perfectly fitted suit. My hair has to be brushed perfectly.
I have to be doing this and that.

Speaker 1 I need to look perfect. Anyone who's doing that, they're not doing it because they actually think they're perfect.

Speaker 1 Most of the time, they're doing it because they're projecting and they feel like shit about themselves. Army, you do look perfect.

Speaker 1 And if you keep talking about, I'm going to fucking stub this out on your face.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I don't think you have to do that. Thank you.
I don't think you have to do, you know, on top of winning the other lottery, you did win. Well, although I hear you're broke now

Speaker 1 yeah yeah so you don't you didn't get any family money no can i ask you a very personal question sure

Speaker 1 the baking soda is that you no

Speaker 1 no okay so the baking soda let's i'm really glad we can clear this up

Speaker 1 because that was my thing that was my thing in school baking soda personal question i have my bm was baking soda boy right really yeah

Speaker 1 it's just a coincidence well yes and no so uh arm and hammer baking soda was owned by a company called Church and Dwight, which was like a big, massive holding company, right?

Speaker 1 And Arm and Hammer was one of the subsidiaries of Church and Dwight. My great-grandfather became very successful with art and oil and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 And then he said, oh my God, this company is my name. I would like to buy the company.
They said, no.

Speaker 1 Oh, so it was his name. It was Arm and Hammer.
It was Arm and Hammer, but it was the company Arm and Hammer Baking Soda was around before he was born. That's so interesting.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it wasn't like, it wasn't named after him. It was meant to be.
Meant to be. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So then he did that sort of like very goofy, rich guy thing that you can only do if you have too much money, where he goes, no, no, no, but it's my name. I want your company.

Speaker 1 And they go, no, no, it's not for sale. And then it became a publicly offered company or publicly traded company, and he bought up a majority of the stock.
Look, nobody who takes himself from

Speaker 1 he wasn't rich when he was born. And wasn't he in Russia at first? Yeah, they were, yeah, they were.
Okay. They were, well, his family was sent to America by the Kremlin to start the Communist Party.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Okay. So they were, I mean, they were doctors, but, you know, they were.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, even as a kid, when I was interested in history and politics, I mean, I was, my father was a newsman. So this was, I knew who Armentheimer was.
And it was always in Russia.

Speaker 1 He was always like with the, he was like, and I think I was right. He was one of our liaisons.
He had deep roots there.

Speaker 1 And, you know, when you look back on it, it's like, oh, yeah, he was a communist until he got rich. And then

Speaker 1 it's like, who wants to be a rich communist? Yeah. It doesn't make much sense.
No, it's like, oh, so now I have this money. I have to give it to everybody? Yeah.
I'm renouncing my party affiliation.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, but nobody who like has a fortune like that doesn't do some.
I mean, you know, most, they say all great fortunes start with some kind of crime. I mean, the Kennedys were bootleggers.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so, um, but

Speaker 1 I want to know what Warren Buffett gets into behind closed doors. You know, I had dinner with Warren Buffett last year.
He's just the nicest guy. The greatest.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, you called me up and said, you know, he's the biggest fan, never misses the show. Wow.
Although he can't stay up when it's on. It's not even on that late.
He's on the Biden sleep program.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Nothing after 8 p.m.
Hey, let me tell you, this guy is no Biden. No, I don't.
He is proof that that is a case-by-case thing because he's older than Biden and he's sharp as a tack.

Speaker 1 We had a great time. He said, I see you're coming to Omaha to do a show.
I can't stay up till 8 o'clock when the show is. I'd love to see it, but if you want to have dinner at five o'clock,

Speaker 1 I will go anywhere in Omaha

Speaker 1 to meet you. And of course, we met at his favorite restaurant and

Speaker 1 went to the special Warren Buffett room. And he just could not be more charming, more on the ball, full of great stories.

Speaker 1 He sent me a

Speaker 1 oh, it's so adorable. He sent me a VHS tape of Hank Greenberg.
Hank Greenberg was the first Jewish superstar superstar baseball player. Yeah.
And was very meaningful to young Warren Buffett.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Warren. This means so much.
And now I have to go out and buy a VCR.

Speaker 1 Not a VCR. It wasn't that bad.
It was a DVD. Okay.
A DVD. Okay.
Even still. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was trying to get a movie from somebody recently and I was like, can you get me a DVD?

Speaker 1 Do you have it in Laserdisc? There's a link. It's just Link.
I said, I'll send you a telegram about it. Yeah.
Yeah. But,

Speaker 1 but you seem like you're in a good place now. I mean, you seem,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 But it's, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of because now, like, the good place only comes from walking through hell. You know, it's like it was,

Speaker 1 it was, it was a brutal experience. Do you know the song me and Bobby McGee? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
By Janice Jofflin. Yeah.
Yeah. Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

Speaker 1 Nothing left to lose. Yes.
And

Speaker 1 it's amazing. I mean, it's like someone might look at me and go, yeah, but financially, you're in a very different position than you've ever been in your entire life.

Speaker 1 And I look at that and I go, yeah. And you know what it's taught me is that I don't need that because I've never been happier than I've ever been in my entire life.

Speaker 1 Maybe this is a bad time to bring it up, but this podcast doesn't pay. Yeah, yeah, sure.
Yeah. That's all right.

Speaker 1 I don't know what they told you. That's all right.
I don't know what they told you to get here. I'm here for the free water, dude.
Like, I don't need to get paid. And you don't drink anymore, huh? No.

Speaker 1 Do you miss it?

Speaker 1 not really i do like okay here's the thing i every now and then i miss it and i still do it yeah every now and then i'll watch someone have a martini and i can just i can feel the vodka in my mouth that unctuous cold vodka just slide or like watch someone drink a scotch or a whiskey and like i can smell it and i can taste it and all those things Yeah, there are things about it that I miss as an addition to a meal.

Speaker 1 It can make an experience, right?

Speaker 1 But also, I look at what I've gotten in my life since stopping putting anything in my body, I wouldn't trade it.

Speaker 1 You know, it's like the way I wake up in the morning, first of all, without ever feeling like shit, which is invaluable in and of itself.

Speaker 1 But like, I wake up in the morning and like my head is clear and I'm grateful and I'm happy and I'm alive.

Speaker 1 And like, I have a morning routine that if you would have told me about it five years ago, I would have said it was the most ridiculous thing in the entire world. Let me guess.

Speaker 1 One, your dick's inside of a supermodel's mouth. Two, only way to wake up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Cleansing food.
And then I hit three. And then I hit moisturizer.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, I wake up in the morning and like, I make myself a cup of coffee and I go and I sit outside. And like, I, because so much, this, it's, it's twofold.

Speaker 1 One, I just like meditate and I watch the clouds and I connect with nature and I feel good about life.

Speaker 1 And the other thing is we spend so much time looking at our phone or whatever whatever that like, I feel like our eyes are always focused very close to us.

Speaker 1 If I start my day looking far, it just it just gives me a sense of perspective where it's like, this is a much bigger picture than this.

Speaker 1 You know, like looking at my phone, reading news that makes me upset. Like, fuck all that noise for a second.
Like, I'm going to go sit outside and I'm going to watch a cloud. Right.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to be okay. That's, you know, Brando.

Speaker 1 Famously, I don't know if you remember, we're too young to remember this, but he did an interview with Connie Chung. You remember who that was? Yeah, yeah.
yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, she was a big news person, like Diane Sawyer, and she famously did an interview with him. And he said very much the same thing: like, he was like, Why aren't you an actor anymore?

Speaker 1 You're you're the greatest actor. Uh, sounds the greatest actor, he pretends he likes me when he went.
That's the dog, right?

Speaker 1 He was talking about his dog, yeah, and then, like, well, what did you do today? You know, Connie Chung, all you know,

Speaker 1 a student, yeah, putting the

Speaker 1 leaflets on her notebook together. And she was like, What do you do? And he, well, today

Speaker 1 I watched an aunt

Speaker 1 crawl up that drain pipe. And I don't think he was fucking around.
I mean, I don't think he was lying. It's hard to tell with that guy, but yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, it's just Marlon Brando, greatest actor, but I think that's exactly what he did. And then ate 12 cream puffs.

Speaker 1 I think he did that too.

Speaker 1 17 Big Macs. And then fucked the maid.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 the way these guys get lazy is hard to believe. I mean, it's just, it's so interesting the way it really is.
You're the personality you're born with.

Speaker 1 You know, I've had so many parents tell me as someone who's never had kids or wanted them, like,

Speaker 1 when you have kids, like, you can tell who they are at two. 100%.
Like, 100%. That's a wild one.
Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I feel like I was always

Speaker 1 and very lucky to be not addictive. I don't, I'm not really, I like what I like.
But like, I mean, I could make jokes about I'm not addicted to pot. I've been smoking it for 45 years.

Speaker 1 But I'm really not in the sense that I smoke it when I want to.

Speaker 1 It never calls to me. I just happen to want to smoke it all day every day.
But I don't. See, that's the thing.
If I did,

Speaker 1 you smoke pot all day. Oh, I used to smoke pot.
I used to smoke 20 joints a day.

Speaker 1 I mean, I was really. You mean wake and bake? Oh, 100%.
Oh, see, I was, that's never what I was. Yeah.
I was always a situational smoker.

Speaker 1 Never every day. Yeah.
I wanted to work. Like, I couldn't smoke a joint like this.
Like, a joint going out because I'm not puffing it, never happened.

Speaker 1 A drink, like, getting watery because the ice melted before I finished it, not a chance. Really? No.
And by the way, if yours started to get watery or melty, I'd be like, are you going to finish that?

Speaker 1 Like, what's going on? Are you okay? Are you sick? Steve Bannon? Yeah. Like,

Speaker 1 what's happening over here?

Speaker 1 But, you know, but I also don't know how much of that was physical dependency because I never had physical withdrawal symptoms from anything but mental withdrawal symptoms I definitely had of like now I'm stuck in how uncomfortable I feel I need to self-medicate all right so look into that camera which one isn't that great the way I built the cameras here yeah I mean this place this one that one right there this one and just say something bad about yourself and whip yourself so that people who are hating us right now know because like one of the things I did like in the Jamie Kirchek article yeah is you owned it 100%

Speaker 1 You're like, okay, now this is where it's a little different.

Speaker 1 Love is, you know, all is fair and love and war is an old saying. And women hurt men, men hurt women in the love game.

Speaker 1 Nothing in my life, and I'm 68, has ever been actually more traumatic than being dumped by my high school girlfriend at 17. She wasn't wrong to do it.

Speaker 1 She was right to do it. But I'm saying love hurts.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, like, just that's the first layer of that is that we all hurt each other when we're going through this. Now, there's an added layer to this with you, which I think, you know, you owned up to.

Speaker 1 Love him and leave him. Well, you know, I had a period where I did the same thing.

Speaker 1 I think because I had a shitty child, shitty adolescence where I couldn't get girls, my own fault.

Speaker 1 And then it was like, oh, now I'm like a, I'm a gay blade out here and I can like go out with this one and this one and this one. And, you know, some feelings get hurt.
It's a shitty thing to do.

Speaker 1 You're a CA. So you were like a CAD

Speaker 1 on a higher level.

Speaker 1 Plus on steroids.

Speaker 1 Plus BDSM. Right.
So the way that looked for me is I would find someone and I would grab them. And I'd be like, you are a shiny new little toy that is going to fix me and make me feel great.

Speaker 1 And I need that because I don't know how to give that to myself. But you want to fix you? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I didn't know this like consciously, but like, I feel like shit. You're amazing.
I'm going to just glom on to you. Right.
And and we're going to have a whirlwind. We're going to take trips.

Speaker 1 We're going to go to amazing restaurants. We're going to go fucking stay in amazing places.
We're going to have

Speaker 1 crazy fun sex. Are you asking me? Let's go because I'm signed up.
Let's go.

Speaker 1 But then what would happen is I would suck these people into this whirlwind.

Speaker 1 And then the minute it got real or the minute it got intimate or the minute it got serious, I would go, whoa, I never signed up for this. And I would just,

Speaker 1 I would move on. And like, no, I wouldn't.
And like Seinfeld, like the Seinfeld episode, I was a terrible breaker-upper. Like, I just wasn't good at it.

Speaker 1 Well, again, not on this level, but I think it's not that uncommon what I was sort of describing about myself for men to go through where we're always at a disadvantage when we're younger because women mature faster.

Speaker 1 And we're so like the 17-year-olds don't want to go out with other 17-year-olds. They want to go out with a guy in college who's a little more mature and has it together a little more.

Speaker 1 So we're always kind of like...

Speaker 1 you know, fighting against that. We don't do well sometimes in adolescence.
It looks like it, that way on Instagram, but that's just the people who look like you. They're doing very well.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of incels in their basement masturbating.

Speaker 1 Okay. So then you get a little older and it's like, oh, okay, now the tables have turned a little bit.
You know, now I'm doing better. I'm making some money.
I'm not a complete idiot.

Speaker 1 Women want to go out with me. And so there's this like period where it kind of switches.
where you feel like, oh, instead of the women who wouldn't give me a shot, now I can.

Speaker 1 And, you know, that's just inevitable, I think, in life.

Speaker 1 I don't know if that has anything to do with your thing, but

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 can't look at that. I just want you, I want people to understand

Speaker 1 that you get like the bad part because I think you do.

Speaker 1 I mean, look, dude, like the bad behavior that I did,

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 cheated on my wife. Right.

Speaker 1 I used people to make me feel better.

Speaker 1 I was callous and inconsiderate with people and their emotions and their well-being.

Speaker 1 And I wanted what I wanted and I was going to take it at any cost, even if it was at an emotional cost of someone else. Right.
And that is shitty behavior. Yeah,

Speaker 1 and that's very honest.

Speaker 1 That's as honest as, I mean, that's as believable as I could expect. Yeah.
And like,

Speaker 1 what else can you do? You can't change the past. Right.

Speaker 1 And the thing about it is, is like,

Speaker 1 there are things in my behavior that I have to take accountability for. Right.
Because that is pivotal for me learning and growing from it. But it is also important,

Speaker 1 but it is important also people know that

Speaker 1 one of my big issues with this, because victim blaming, no, that's bad. There should be victim accountability.

Speaker 1 One of the sad things I think about that, not just this case, but a a lot of Me Too cases, is that like it's great that Me Too happened.

Speaker 1 That is certainly a wonderful, necessary corrective that we needed to have, long overdue.

Speaker 1 But one of the upsides was that some women interpreted it as,

Speaker 1 I think, the opposite of feminism, where I have no agency. Like, I would have liked to heard one word out of

Speaker 1 what's her name, Courtney's mouth, about,

Speaker 1 yeah, maybe he was a schmuck, but like, you know, I could have left. I have agency.
I mean, the first date was like, you know, looking for rope.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know, honey, if the first date is to Home Depot, I say, get out now. It's not like it wasn't a train you could see coming.

Speaker 1 And, you know, also when, I got to say, again, not victim blaming, and maybe this is, maybe this, maybe she's being honest, but whenever I hear an attractive woman say especially about a hot movie star I didn't know who he was

Speaker 1 I'm like come on do they get Wi-Fi under the rock you live because I just never buy that yeah I didn't know who he was yeah I bet you you did you know and so

Speaker 1 anyway and also but then there's okay now to

Speaker 1 To your point,

Speaker 1 a lot of them did know. And a lot of them were then.
She knew, I think. Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 1 But a lot of them were willing to put up with things that they normally would have not.

Speaker 1 Exactly. To

Speaker 1 be a part of it. And that's what you took advantage of.
Correct. Yes.
Okay. At least

Speaker 1 we're at this point.

Speaker 1 If I was. This is honesty.
Yeah. If I was a, you know,

Speaker 1 right.

Speaker 1 Manager of a regional bank or something like that, then like, there's no way i i all of this if you were some loser selling timeshares in the cayman who does that who does that by the way i am so sorry i loved it you say what you want i love it

Speaker 1 i would love to be a timeshare salesman it is so fun it is oh my god it's so fun i mean when i saw that on tmz yeah i was like wow

Speaker 1 I had, I didn't know what to think, but ultimately I was like, fuck, this guy's got balls. I mean, if that was me, if I had gone through this whole thing.

Speaker 1 That's the wrong vowel. It's bills.

Speaker 1 Like, I have to. But it's balls not to have bills, because certainly there's family money you could tap.
Is there not? I mean, if you, I mean, how could the Armand hammer

Speaker 1 the baking soda king

Speaker 1 with a side business and oil? I mean, that's like Kennedy money or like

Speaker 1 any family like that.

Speaker 1 Somebody's got that money in your family. Well, my dad's, my dad has passed, right? And so he was sort of like the last of that dynasty or whatever.
Where's the money? It's so complicated.

Speaker 1 And like also, I have come to the place where I understand that there are no free lunches and anything that you take. always has strings, especially from people who love to give

Speaker 1 because then they know they've got strings. Right.
So what I would rather do is, I would rather go get a job selling timeshare. I would rather go get a job.
I applied for a job to be a drama teacher.

Speaker 1 I applied for a job to be a landscaper. I applied for a job to be a building manager.
And the Cayman Islands refuses to give me work permits. We need a court for the canceled,

Speaker 1 you know, just like any other court. And

Speaker 1 when you go in, you know, you can present this as like as part of

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 request for a pardon after six years, we are presenting as evidence that my client worked as a timeshare salesman. It's got to be time-served.
It's got to be time-served. A little bit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not quite stabbing trash on the highway.
Yeah, yeah. But

Speaker 1 it's closer to that than being the star of The Man from Uncle. Correct.
Correct. Love that one, by the way.
You know, that was one of my favorite shows as a kid. I lived for The Man from Uncle.

Speaker 1 It was a great show. Yeah.
And I thought, you know,

Speaker 1 I know it didn't like light up the box office, but I guess it was a little too sophisticated. Yeah.
You know, still fun to make. I'll bet.

Speaker 1 You know, we got to travel all over Europe and have a great time. And yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, everybody, I loved everybody in it.

Speaker 1 But just real quick, to get back to the sort of like job thing, like, is there a world in which I could

Speaker 1 just say

Speaker 1 fuck it and

Speaker 1 you know, figure out how to borrow money from family or do anything like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But that's just not who I am. That's not what I want to do.
That's never been who I have wanted to be. When I was 19 years old, I decided to go be an actor.

Speaker 1 Like, I didn't follow in the family footsteps. I didn't graduate from high school.
I didn't go to college. I didn't get an MBA.
I didn't do any of those things.

Speaker 1 If I would have done that, My life path and trajectory would have been laid and I would have job dependency. I would have a paycheck, I would have all those things, but that wasn't who I was.

Speaker 1 And that oil company is still in existence, Occidental Petroleum. Yeah, Occidental Petroleum.
But it's publicly traded now. Like it's not, it's not our company.

Speaker 1 Okay, but you know, but somebody always has a lot of the stock from the family. I, I mean, I don't.

Speaker 1 No, but somebody, I can't believe some hammer. Yeah.
Well, it's only my dad and my aunt. And we know how my aunt feels about us.

Speaker 1 So, you know, and my dad's.

Speaker 1 It's interesting the way some of the people like got in cahoots with each other when when you were yeah you know it's funny i was just writing the thing for a friday show about biden and the

Speaker 1 i think the ultimate test for this is not going to be about politics it's just that this country is run by mean girls

Speaker 1 mean girls in the media, mean girls in politics. And when they smell blood in the water

Speaker 1 of a vulnerable person,

Speaker 1 that person will not survive. Joe Biden is a vulnerable person now with blood in the water, and he will not be the nominee for president in 2024.

Speaker 1 I guarantee it, because the mean girls will never stop. And I feel like, in your situation, there was like it's interesting the way these different

Speaker 1 people from different films they like sort of found each other like united in this cause

Speaker 1 of the monster. Yeah, And I mean, the wife, the ex-wife,

Speaker 1 didn't she connect with

Speaker 1 the one who's claiming sexual assault?

Speaker 1 Something like that.

Speaker 1 There was something, it's in the article.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 wow.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's got to be tough. And again,

Speaker 1 just to go by what's factual, irrefutable, I read in the article, not in the thing, there was a investigation

Speaker 1 in the Cayman Islands of the claims, and it was a fairly glowing report. Again, I'm just reporting the facts.

Speaker 1 I think two things are being conflated here. There was an investigation by the LAPD that lasted for two and a half years.
So I was under the sword of Damocles, legally speaking. Okay.

Speaker 1 For two and a half years. They went through phones, emails,

Speaker 1 eyewitness report. Like they, they, they investigated me for two and a half years in a time where if they could have nailed someone like me, right, it would have been such a boon for the LAPD.

Speaker 1 I could not agree more. And after the newspapers.
Yeah. And after two and a half years, they came to the conclusion that there is no evidence any crime had been committed.
Well, that didn't do that.

Speaker 1 And then the other thing is there was a full psychological evaluation that I had to go through in the Cayman Islands because of the custody battle.

Speaker 1 So I had to subject myself for a multi-month full psychological evaluation.

Speaker 1 And the report at the end of that was glowing. I mean,

Speaker 1 by the way, they're like, he's got issues. Well, I mean,

Speaker 1 what people are saying. I'm just going by what the facts that Jamie laid out.
The wife, the ex-wife, is like, he's dangerous.

Speaker 1 He cannot be around people.

Speaker 1 I'm wearing extra security right now. Yeah, yeah.
A cod piece. Yeah, yeah.
Just because because I know.

Speaker 1 But then the report says he's not dangerous. Correct.
He can be around people. Correct.
So

Speaker 1 here's my ultimate bottom line about this kind of thing is women, of course, throughout history, much more vulnerable and have every reason to be suspicious of us. We are toxic in many ways.

Speaker 1 But they also believe in something that is not talked about, I think, enough, which is what I would call

Speaker 1 romantic poetic justice, which is if you fuck over a woman in one way,

Speaker 1 she feels she is completely justified in fucking you over, maybe not on the facts of what you actually did, but on something else. I don't think Mia Farrow really thinks Woody Allen molested the kid.

Speaker 1 I just think

Speaker 1 he started dating Soon Yee while they were still together, and that was a little hurtful.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it's like, that's what I mean by romantic poetic justice. It doesn't have to logically make sense.
If you hurt me over here, if I could hurt you over there, even if it's a lie,

Speaker 1 it's justice. But also, you know, like you pointed out, there's a long history of women being vulnerable and being taken advantage of by men.

Speaker 1 And I think that there is a way where we need to acknowledge that the pendulum did need to shift, but there needs to be a sort of like, as Reagan would say, trust but verify kind of aspect of this.

Speaker 1 Because if, I mean, I know, I know a guy who, I knew, I knew a guy who went to prison for years because a girl accused him of something.

Speaker 1 And then later she wrote him a message saying, I'm really sorry about that. My parents thought that this was blah blah blah.
No, no, no. I mean, it's, it's.
And by the way, he got out of prison.

Speaker 1 I met him when he was sweeping floors and working at a boxing gym. You know, it's like there's no apology parade for these kinds of things, nor should you expect one, but it's tough.

Speaker 1 And, and, and at the end of the day,

Speaker 1 well, it's hurt people, hurt people. Yes.
And it's this, no, the height of the pendulum swinging the wrong way, I think, was 2017. After, you know, just

Speaker 1 17, 18, Al Franken having to step down

Speaker 1 with a low point in that. But also this idea that after 2017, women lost the ability to lie.
They did not.

Speaker 1 That's no knock on them. They're humans just like we are and they didn't lose the ability to lie.

Speaker 1 And again, I think poetic romantic justice,

Speaker 1 it means, yes, you can lie if you have revenge coming.

Speaker 1 So I'm not saying people lied about you. I mean, you have to own up being a schmuck.
Correct. And then society has to figure out, like, what is the penalty for being a schmuck?

Speaker 1 Being a schmuck is not being a rapist.

Speaker 1 And, you know, these distinctions matter. We have distinctions in every sort of crime.
And there's first-degree murder, manslaughter. You know, I mean, Alec Baldwin is on trial now, not for murder,

Speaker 1 because no one thinks he actually was like, today I'm going to shoot the cinematographer. Sure.
My view is. If we don't think that, what the fuck are we talking about?

Speaker 1 Either he meant to shoot and murder the cinematographer, or what are you doing dragging him into this courtroom? You fucking phonies. It's just phony.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's, but anyway, we do have these distinctions between crimes, and that's what we refuse to do for some reason with this. It's just easier, again, not to think about it, wipe that out.

Speaker 1 I think the problem is, is you have people who are genuine victims, people who have been raped, people who have been abused, assaulted, whatever.

Speaker 1 And those people deserve their justice. Those people deserve the right thing to happen for them.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, that movement to try to protect and help those people is being co-opted in a way by people who are using it for their own self-interest.

Speaker 1 And all that's doing is hurting the ability of people who have actually been wronged

Speaker 1 and weakening the movement for those people who it was initially intended for

Speaker 1 you need to get a charity that's my solution

Speaker 1 yeah we need to get you people want to give me a lot of money bill let me let's let's

Speaker 1 let's brainstorm this yeah and find because i i don't see a guy who doesn't want to like uh amend and give back you know Yeah. I mean, it's like they got their pound of flesh.

Speaker 1 Maybe they need another half pound i don't know i don't know what the thing is but but there just has to be some sort of sane way of saying um this is the commensurate punishment for this crime

Speaker 1 not

Speaker 1 everything is a hanging offense yeah and um

Speaker 1 you know again i think it's very um counterproductive to feminism that

Speaker 1 there's never a word about like, boy,

Speaker 1 I could have been smarter about that.

Speaker 1 Not just the Home Depot, but like

Speaker 1 when I saw what I was writing, I was like, I think. Thank you and me, I think we could solve the problems with feminism.
It's just the two of us right here, right now. Have faith in us.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, like any, like any group,

Speaker 1 women

Speaker 1 have different,

Speaker 1 they're not a monolith. They have very different ideas of what feminism is.
And

Speaker 1 often it is generational. I mean, my generation of women, they're more like, you know, we fought for this shit.

Speaker 1 We actually remember when guys could pinch your ass with total impunity in the office or in front of other people. Sure, sure.
And we, like, that's the battle we fought and we won it.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 maybe we're a little tougher than you are. And so, like,

Speaker 1 we're not

Speaker 1 afraid to tell a guy. who's creepy, go away.
Yeah. You know, I mean,

Speaker 1 again,

Speaker 1 not victim shaming, but these women could have said, oh, wait a second.

Speaker 1 And again, the cannibal thing, I think, is kind of a red herring. I mean, that's sort of like, I mean, believe me, your obituary,

Speaker 1 mine will include like 9-11

Speaker 1 got fired for, you know, like saying the thing about the terrorists and like whatever. and politically incorrect and yours will say they just can't get that out

Speaker 1 and it's like the least of it. I feel like that was just like sort of, I even said that at the time when I think we covered it on the show.
It was like, it's a little beyond Tiger Woods.

Speaker 1 You know, we got his text messages and it was like, you know, I want to own that ass. I'm, you know, it's like, okay, you know,

Speaker 1 the inconvenient truth is like hot sex is just not politically correct. It's just not.

Speaker 1 I mean, and sex that's politically correct, it's got to suck. It doesn't have to go this far.

Speaker 1 Well, you have a great line in the thing where you said

Speaker 1 about why you couldn't do this with your wife. You said, you can't pull your wife's hair.

Speaker 1 But see, I now.

Speaker 1 That's good. So I remember that interview.
I was very drunk in that interview. But wait, that's true.
I don't know that it is. I don't know that it is.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I think that there is a, I think it's even called like the Madonna horror complex. Yes, there is, of course.
Where it's like you, you,

Speaker 1 if you are,

Speaker 1 if you want to have sex with your wife, where you want to feel free to grab hair, or you want her to X, Y, or Z, and she says no,

Speaker 1 maybe that's not supposed to be your wife.

Speaker 1 Maybe there's a compatibility issue here that is going to lead to an expensive divorce. Right.
You know? So like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I think that if you're marrying someone who's not the right fit and then all of a sudden complaining about it, it's kind of on you, bro.

Speaker 1 Which, by the way, bro, meaning me. Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 But people also change and relationships change. Correct.
You know, they dwarf. It's not the, it's not, the river flows.
Yes. You know? Yes.

Speaker 1 Your foot's where you put your foot in the river, but that water that passed over it is all the way downstream 10 years later. Correct.
That's every marriage.

Speaker 1 And I somebody said it is impossible to step into the same river twice. I don't remember.
I believe. I love that quote.
It's either Buddha or Carrot Top. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 I can't remember which one, but it was somebody like, yes, but that's it. So, I mean, that's why, one reason why I must say I never got married.
Sure.

Speaker 1 It's because I was like, you know, we use that phrase, I'm not married to it, about a lot of things that are like less volatile than actually aligning with another human being.

Speaker 1 Like that table, I like it. I'm not married to it.
Right. But a human,

Speaker 1 I know I'm going to chat. And I don't think I was completely wrong.
Now, it depends on your personality again. Like lots of people,

Speaker 1 I'm just roofing you. Don't worry about that.
What is that, by the way? It's terrifying.

Speaker 1 It's terrifying. It's coming from you.
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 That's too far even for me, Bill. Quite a compliment.
You'll find out later.

Speaker 1 Have a drink. No.

Speaker 1 What were we talking about?

Speaker 1 I'm not married to it.

Speaker 1 Married to it, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's always going to shift. Successful marriages are people who can surf these changes.
I agreed. And they all say that.
Agreed.

Speaker 1 You know, no one, I think you have to go in with expectations that, like, if you're having...

Speaker 1 you know, hot sex and everything on your wedding night, and even by then, sometimes sometimes it's over. Yeah.
I mean, honestly. I mean,

Speaker 1 I don't disagree.

Speaker 1 I don't disagree.

Speaker 1 The level of resignation in your face was just made me almost want to weep. It's this, though, like this is what's complicated about a marriage.

Speaker 1 And I can't speak to everybody, but if you're in a marriage where you lose sight of each other, you're going to keep growing as people.

Speaker 1 But if you're not watching and keeping an eye on the other person,

Speaker 1 there's a very good chance that you will grow apart, but it doesn't happen very quickly.

Speaker 1 It's like a tanker ship that's one degree off. You go five miles, not a big deal.

Speaker 1 You go a hundred miles, you can't even see each other anymore. And then you're blocking the Panama Canal.
And then you've suezed, and now you've ruined everything. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, look,

Speaker 1 I made so many stupid mistakes in my life life and was immature probably up to the moment, but I hopefully

Speaker 1 can improve there to a degree, but way too late in life.

Speaker 1 But one thing I got right was I kind of knew from the beginning, don't do this.

Speaker 1 It's not going to work.

Speaker 1 You're going to create heartaches for you and your ex-wife.

Speaker 1 And also money. Like, not that I'm greedy, but like people are like,

Speaker 1 like when I bought a piece of the Mets they're like how did you get that I'm like you know how I got that money

Speaker 1 no divorce no alimony no kids and no stupid hobbies yeah no motorcycle collection car collection jewelry heroin you know whatever it is hookers it's just

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that's the one thing. And of course, it makes it so much easier if you don't have kids or want kids.

Speaker 1 When you want kids, you kind of also want to be able to give them a stable,

Speaker 1 you know, and that's, and that's where it's a badly designed system by the God I don't believe in.

Speaker 1 You know, it's just a badly designed system, especially for men who it is just in our nature

Speaker 1 to want new.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, I always laugh when women are like, you know, I want to get bigger tits. I'm like, it's not your tits.

Speaker 1 If he has the big tits for two years, he'll want small tits. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I've enjoyed the fuck out of this. Yeah, me too.
I mean, I, some people will just hate both of us.

Speaker 1 And you just,

Speaker 1 yeah, I love your, I love your equanimity about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it's so honest.

Speaker 1 The people who will like it, I think it means so much more to me, those people, my people. Yeah.
And you just can't

Speaker 1 find a lot of honesty anymore. And this was just an honest like owning for the bad like exposing the true

Speaker 1 not like and then just how we really feel about shit i mean

Speaker 1 you know people are this area is such a i mean race and gender are just the biggest minefields and look they were the two parts that needed the most correcting that's part of why we needed a giant correct we still need correctives in both of those areas we're always not there yet but we've made a lot of progress and you you know, sometimes when you make an omelet, you break a few eggs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, great to see you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But honestly,

Speaker 1 you got thrown in, but it's for the greater good. Thanks.
Thanks for the sacrifice.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, there is some taking one for the team. And like, I get it why they're mad at you, but I do think they will stop being mad at you for a couple of reasons that one, I mean, I think people

Speaker 1 They love a redemption story.

Speaker 1 They will appreciate the honest owning. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If they don't, fuck them. You can't ever get those people.
You don't even want those people,

Speaker 1 which is a little tough because, you know, a lot of those people are like the mean girls who run the media. Sure.
But, you know,

Speaker 1 I think enough people, I mean, you know, people just, you know, you were around long enough that people are going to want to see the second act. I don't think your career is over.

Speaker 1 No, I mean, who knows? I think I do. Okay.
I'm pretty good at these things. You want to be my agent? No.
You're hired. I don't.

Speaker 1 You're like, that is that is a Sisyphysian task where the boulder is covered in Vaseline and I want nothing. Well,

Speaker 1 the thing is. Let them listen to this.
Yeah. And then, you know, like

Speaker 1 at a certain point,

Speaker 1 you know, you can take it for just so long.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I'm not going to tell any specific tales out of school, but I'm in. contact with Louis C.K.,

Speaker 1 somebody else who like owns up to, yeah, I did some little things things that are not cool.

Speaker 1 I did some things that are not cool, owned it. And like, again, how long do we punish somebody like that? And his particular prison is that if he goes to make his case, then it all starts up again.

Speaker 1 And they, and they're like, it's so. undemocratic, un-American to have the attitude of, you can't even make the case.
If you do that, you're wrong. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, that's the reason why

Speaker 1 I haven't said anything. Yeah, but now we are.
We're talking about it. But

Speaker 1 you know what I'm not doing? Is I'm not going through line item by line item, refuting with evidence why anything was bullshit. Just read that Jamie Jerker.

Speaker 1 I mean, he Jamie just puts the things that, again, are irrefutable in print.

Speaker 1 And then if you want to like hate, hate. But

Speaker 1 yeah, I just think that

Speaker 1 there's going to have to be some moment where

Speaker 1 people say

Speaker 1 things that are not black and white have to be adjudicated on that basis, just like we do in law. Sure.
And

Speaker 1 not everything

Speaker 1 is lifetime banishment. Again, I think in your case, it will be good because you have going for you that people do actually want to see you.
You still look like a movie star.

Speaker 1 And people are starving for movie stars in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 and again, like I think at a certain point, everybody goes, Wayne, maybe we overreacted.

Speaker 1 You know, I've seen that with so many people, so many scandals, like, oh, yeah,

Speaker 1 sorry.

Speaker 1 We kind of had to. I mean, Al Franken could run for president tomorrow, and I wish he would.
He'd be like a perfect last-minute choice. And it would say to the Democratic Party,

Speaker 1 It's actually not a bad idea. It's not a bad idea.

Speaker 1 It's kind of a sister soldier moment where somebody steps up and goes, if Al would just step up there and go, you know what, I stepped aside, whatever it was, five years ago, because I lost support.

Speaker 1 There was some people who claimed that I was handsy during taking a picture.

Speaker 1 I said at the time, I respect their opinions, but I never admitted to any of it.

Speaker 1 He was careful to say that. Well, it was just we were in that fever moment, so he went away.
If he went and said, you know what, my party sometimes goes a little too far.

Speaker 1 I'm a loyal liberal and I believe in the things on the left, but sentiments of left goes way too far and they did with me.

Speaker 1 And I'm back and I'm here to run for the, and I mean, he, he was on that path. Yeah.
You know, and he's one of the few guys who could take on Trump with humor. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, mocking him, making drive him crazy. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And the Democrats need somebody. And, you know,

Speaker 1 it would seem crazy the first three days. And then people would be like, hey, you know what? This is cool.
I actually really love this idea. I do too.

Speaker 1 See, we're going to figure everything out. Like this.
All right.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 I wish you the best of luck in all future endeavors, as my high school principal said to me.

Speaker 1 Did you throw a BM in there? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Even when I hear it now, it brings back horrible memories. But

Speaker 1 I'm so glad we did this. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I don't know who your old friends are that stuck with you. I'm sure there were some.
I'm sure it's one of those things where you find out who your friends are. Real quick.

Speaker 1 Real quick. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I'm sure you have some that were

Speaker 1 stolwarts. And I would say 99.9% of them were friends that I had before I had any success.
Right. And then you have some success, you find a whole new swath of friends.

Speaker 1 The success goes away, lo and behold, weird, so do they. Right.
And that's okay. That's okay.
As long as you understand why they were your friend and why they left, then it just makes it easier.

Speaker 1 So a whole new swath of friends. You mean other timeshare salesmen? That's right.
That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're a very tight-knit company.

Speaker 1 I actually want to talk to you about timeshares. Do you have a minute? Do you vacation? Do you have any venture program? Because I feel behind.

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