Armie Hammer | Club Random with Bill Maher

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If they could have nailed someone like me, it would have been such a boon for the LAPD.

I could not agree more.

Well, although I hear you're broke now. Yeah.
Where's the money? It's so complicated. Hey.
Hey, buddy. Army.
Army. How you living, my man? How do I look like a woman? Yeah, struggling.
Well, I mean, this is not exactly a, this is the down and dirty party house that I always had. But so great to meet you because I have to tell you, all day long, wherever I go, people are always mistaking me for you.
It's like, hey, Armie Hammer. And I'm like, no, we look very much alike, but I'm about a half an inch shorter.
And that happens to me all day. You know, if I had a dollar for every time I heard that, I wouldn't even care if I was canceled.
I'd be rolling in it. I hadn't heard.
What happened? You know, it's just one of those things. It's going to happen to everybody.
Just wait. Well, that's true.
I was doing a radio interview yesterday, and a guy said to me what people say to me all the time, which just makes me laugh. They go, Bill, I think you're like one of the only, maybe the only one or one or two people who are uncancellable.
Which I said, I could get myself cancelled in the next 10 seconds on this interview. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's interesting though, because I've had conversations with people about this, like what makes someone uncancellable? What is that kind of thing? I don't know that it ever exists, but there is something that is unique in this space more so than in TV or anything like that because it's like, you're direct to consumer. It has a lot to do with identity politics.
Some people will hate this, but I mean, we especially me, even more than you in a way, because I'm not just white, male, heterosexual, but old. Over 60.
What? It's not so funny. I didn't laugh, no.
I was laughing at the white part. But I'll tell you three people who would have to do something like beyond outrageous to get canceled.
Okay. Beyonce.
Oh, yeah. Michelle Obama.
Right. And Oprah Winfrey.
I'm not saying you couldn't cancel them or that they are in any way any of them are the type of person who ever would do something horrible because they're not, which is part of the reason why they're so lionized. They are great people.
Sure. But I know for a fact, and I'm not going to say which one, but I know one of them from a very close source is at least a potty mouth.

Okay.

I think I know one of them from a very close source is at least a potty mouth. OK.
I think I know which one this is. It probably is all of them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just know about the one.
Yeah, yeah. Who isn't? But anyway, this is called Club Random, but somebody suggested it could be called Club Rehabilitation.
Because between this and my other show, I had Andrew Cuomo on my real time about, I don't know, six months ago. And I said to my staff, and it was a giant deep dive into, and we'll never know what happened behind closed doors with two people.
but I said, just stick to what is irrefutable. And by that, I mean, it changed people's perception of him a lot because one story gets out there and then it's a narrative.
And I have to tell you, in your case, I watched the House of Hammer doc and read Jamie Kirchick's article. and this is what fucking infuriates me so much about the media.
It's like, I never trust you, and for good reason. You do not deserve to be trusted.
You never tell me the whole story. If you just watch that documentary, I mean, there's a lot of things in Jamie's piece.
Which one was that? About a year ago? Yeah, maybe a little more. Okay, this is actual investigative journalism.
Now, I mean, I'm sure there are women listening to this right now, like, they hate me already. I'm talking to a monster.
It's like, but wait, who's the monster? Just look at the facts. And you certainly have things to own.
You know, you're kind of a sick puppy in a few ways yeah um but uh but yeah you owned it in the article but i'm just saying just look at the facts just look at what is in the article that is irrefutable that's all i'm interested in things you can't argue about texts texts that I see. Yeah.
You know, firsthand, not someone's opinion. Just by that, they really did leave a lot out of the documentary.
I mean, I had one impression when I saw that and another impression. And one is more complete.
Jamie's thing doesn't leave out anything. It just adds the fullness.
And the documentary just, it reminded me of the Woody Allen documentary that HBO did, and I love my brothers and sisters at HBO, but I didn't like that documentary on Woody Allen. It was called Allen v.
Farrow, and it was not. It should have been called Mia's Story.
Yeah, I remember that. I mean, the thing about these documentaries, though, is like there there really is i think you're taking a it's a bit of a journalistic stretch to call them documentaries now i could go out and make a documentary and could just exercise every single bit of confirmation bias from the very beginning to the end and any bit of information that comes up that i don't like, I go, no, no, no, no, but let's focus on this.
And the next thing you know, you've got this thing that you put out there as a documentary, and people go, oh, it must be true. Well, that's interesting that you use that term confirmation bias because this is, again, not to make it all about me, Army, but it is.
It's my show. We're in your house.
We're in my house. But, you know, it's so hard to work to the dwindling number of people who want a dispassionate, objective view.
People don't even want that. They want to be in their own bubbles.
They hear that all the time, the criticism. Oh, the right is in the bubble.
They are. Oh, and the left is their bubble.
And it's like, yeah, and I'm happy here. Don't give me great airs with throwing things at me that I don't already believe.
I mean, I think that's what you mean when you're talking about confirmation bias, right? A hundred percent. I mean, this is the issue with sort of like politics in general that I see right now is like, you can have someone who is a staunch supporter of, of either side, right? I mean, I have family members that are on this side, family members that are on that side.
You or politics in general? Well, kind of, it's all kind of part and parcel as I see it, right? Cause it's like, this is, this is what we're dealing with as a culture and as a society right now. I don't want to be challenged.
I don't want to be wrong. And I think for a lot of people who believe one thing and have been vocal about it, whatever that one thing might be, if a bit of information comes to them and they all of a sudden go, oh, I might have misjudged this one.
I might have been wrong. It's upsetting.
It's upsetting. But then also, there's an element to it where it's like, that person now has to admit that they were wrong, which I think is a very difficult thing for people to do.
We see it now with the Biden situation. All the people who are out front, me among them, of course, always out front, burden about Biden.
Like, I always saying ageism, I'm against it, but it is a case by case. And the credibility of it relies on when the case is, you are too old to do it.
You got to own up to it. The way the media just did a 360 on this after that debate from hell, like without any apology of like, oh, yeah, we kind of knew this for the last year or two.
And we didn't really say anything. And we pretended it was going to be OK.
And we could just run out the clock with Biden and then just turn on a dime and no acknowledgement. Same thing with COVID from the lab.
I see the New York Times did a big piece a couple of Sundays ago about COVID. You know what? We really looked at this deep dive and, yeah, it probably came from a lab.
OK, well, I was saying that three years ago, or at least that it wasn't a political thing and it should be neutral. But it certainly is at least a 50-50.
No acknowledgment of you're the paper that sort of more than any was saying, well, it's kind of racist if you say it came from a lab. And no acknowledgement of that and no acknowledgement of that some people did get it right.
Well, it was a cancelable offense, I remember. When people were saying this is a lab-grown virus, people would go, how dare you? Which, ironically, is so much more racist to think that it came from the wet markets that to me would be racist like boy these people will put anything in their mouth yeah they got it from eating bats and you're like okay yeah that's somehow worse whereas a high-tech lab i mean it could happen well of course it was inevitable that it would happen.
But well, how'd we get onto COVID? Oh, about bias and not owning up when you do a 360 and not willing to look at the materials. I mean, the reason why it was great when Cuomo was on, I thought, was because, again, just sticking to what's irrefutable, when I read it, the audience laughs.
And laughter is, as we know, involuntary. You can't force it.
All comedians know this. People can be as thrilled to see you as anything.
And in one minute, if you're not actually making them laugh, they're not laughing. But when they do laugh, people say, okay, it rang true.
That's how that reads. It rang true.
Yeah. And whether it's Cuomo, whether it's anybody else who experienced something like that, when this information comes out and people go, oh, actually, it looks like this is more complicated than we thought.
Or we might have jumped on a bandw you know, we grabbed our tar and pitchforks maybe a little too quickly here. Well, we've seen it with many.
Yeah. And we're going to continue to see it because for every single person that gets thrown into the fire as a sacrifice to this movement, all they're doing is adding fuel to the fire.
That fire is just going to get bigger. And the person who threw them on the fire might think, I'm doing this as an act of self-preservation.
Or they might think, I'm doing this out of an act of moral superiority. But they're grabbing someone and they're throwing them into this fire.
And this fire is going to continue to grow and get bigger and bigger until it just burns through everything. That's the, to me, the essential difference between old school liberals, which I mostly count myself as, and woke.

And I know people don't like that term.

It used to be only good things, and I agree.

But then it, sorry, migrated to this.

You call it whatever you want.

But the difference between maybe it's generational, old school liberals and younger people who think they're liberal or left.

But really, it's a lot about, you know, they call themselves social justice warriors. They really just want to, they think they're warriors because they're like hitting send on their phone.
Keyboard warriors. Keyboard warriors, you're right.
I've heard that term too. And they just think they're somehow ridding the world of evil.
And they're, you know, like, as if they're facing the fire hoses in Birmingham, Alabama

in 1963 or something.

I mean, people really did put themselves on the line and get rid of real evils.

And there are still evils in the world.

I don't think you're one of them.

Yeah.

I mean, I think you did some really gnarly things.

Listen, I needed an adjustment.

Like, there was, you know, there was some shit going on.

And do you think you got it now?

I mean, you don't feel that, like, if it all didn't happen,

would you miss the kinky part of your sex life?

Here's what I think would have happened had none of this gone on. And, like, the cataclysmic tectonic shift in my life wouldn't have happened.
My life would have kept going exactly as it was. And I know that that would ultimately only lead in one place and that's death.
Do you literally see it as a blessing in disguise? One million percent. Really? Oh, yeah.
I mean, I experienced a ego death, a career death, a financial death, all of these things. Right.
And Jung talks about this. Joseph Campbell talks about this.
You got to die. And once you die, you can then be reborn.
The phoenix. Exactly.
A phoenix isn't going to rise if there's no ashes. Ben Affleck has a giant phoenix.
I've seen it. In real life? No, no, no.
I've seen pictures of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That would have been a good story. I know.
Yeah, yeah. Listen, it got pretty crazy in the heydays.
Now, the best line was Jennifer Garner when they asked her about it. And she said, I think in this metaphor, I'm the ashes.
Yeah. But the thing is, is about this, like my life was going on a certain way.
And there was, it's Newton's laws, right? An object in motion is going to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. My life was in motion.
I was making a lot of money. Right.
I was drinking a lot. I was doing a lot of drugs.
I was drinking a lot. I was doing a lot of drugs.

I was partying hard.

I was being real fast and loose about what I put in text messages.

And I was also engaging in risky behavior that, if you really think about it, was stupid.

You know what?

Maybe the worst thing you did was putting out a video of you driving drunk.

Oh, I mean.

I mean, that's really irresponsible.

100%.

100%.

I mean.

100%.

Thank you. you did was putting out a video of you driving drunk oh i mean i mean that's really irresponsible 100 100 i mean 100 the women thing to be fair it was mdma really yeah i think so i i'm i'm a little hazy i know that there was a video of me in a car doing yes i saw it in the documentary right right right i was in the past to be fair i was in the passenger oh you were i was in the passenger seat oh i thought you were driving yeah no no no i was in the passenger seat well, right, right.
I was in the passenger... To be fair, I was in the passenger seat.
Oh, you were? I was in the passenger seat. Oh, I thought you were driving.
Yeah, no, no, no, no. I was in the passenger seat.
Oh, well, then no harm, no foul. Yeah, see? I mean, who hasn't done MDMA in a passenger seat of a car? Who hasn't been shot on MDMA? Yeah.
Okay, well, then... I'm glad we cleared that up.
It looked like you were driving, but that would be worse. But, yeah...
I mean, look, but, like, maybe I was. I'm also 100% sure that I definitely drove irresponsibly.
Right. For sure.
And by the way, I did all kinds of crazy shit that like if I really think about it now, I kind of look at it and I go, there's no way I didn't expect this, even unconsciously, subconsciously. Like this, I was, it was self-destruction.
It's almost even more inevitable than that,

in that if you took a guy, I mean,

if they were making a movie story in a lab,

they'd make you.

Plus your back, I mean, you look like that.

You, the wealth of the family wealth,

and also when your family is prominent,

you sort of have a sophistication and a confidence that other kids don't very often, you know. I mean, you just have walked through life on a certain different plane.
So, you know, you have all this, and I'm sure the women are throwing themselves at you. Like, at some point, like, it's going to get harder to find a vein.
Yeah. Yeah.
It just is. Like, I get it.
You know, it was, my life is actually, I'm more lucky because I, I would have gone, I don't know if I would have done what you did, but I would have gone somewhere weird if it had been that easy for me. Whereas it was always, I always thought it was hard.
As much as I did well with women, it was like never like just like that. And that turned out, when I look back, I'm glad that's the case.
I'm glad I had to work. A hundred percent.
Yeah. Because there's also, the flip side of that too is, there's the dopamine aspect of it.

Sure.

Right?

You do one thing and the first time you do it, you're like, oh, like that just ticked every box.

You try it again and you're like, that was pretty good.

And you try it again and you're like, yeah, okay, well, how can we ramp this experience

up?

Right?

And the thing about being a successful actor or being a public figure in any way in the time of social media is like it gets real tricky real fast because you have people reaching out to you. So you're not pursuing anything.
I mean... It's coming to you and it's people sending incredibly explicit videos.'s people saying, you can do X, Y, and Z to me.
One thing, again, I'm going to keep saying this, and people will still hate me, but sticking to the irrefutable. When you read, when you see the documentary, you see only certain parts of the texting between the women who are mad at you and you.
And Jamie Kerchick, great reporter, prints the full both sides. When you read theirs, I think, I'm thinking of, I don't know, if it's all of them.
There's three or four prominent women in this. It's not like eight.
Well, one of the women in the documentary I've never even met before. Your aunt? Yeah.
I wish. I wish.
God bless her. No, but like one of the women who claims that.
Yes. Oh, I know.
I've never met her. Right.
And she has, again, I'm not taking anybody's side here. I'm just giving you the facts.
She had a text to you something like, I'm going to be your slave. Yeah.
Okay. And another one, oh my God, the potty mouth on this one.
I mean, they're worse than you. It was like, I want to be your fuck puppet and I want you to fill all my holes and choke me.
yeah, there's, I mean, I don't know who put who up to this. Maybe you prompted them because they knew this about you or because other stuff there.
I think a lot of it is this, here's how it is on my level. Thank God no women have ever wanted me to, you know, enslave them.
I don't have it going on like that. But women over the years, especially after- You're lost, Bill.
You're lost. I know, exactly.
But after I was successful, especially, like a lot of women, when they're trying to get with you, they say something, some variation of, I'm into women. I like girls.
I'm into threesomes. and I love to say to them, no, you're not.
Because you're not. You're saying it because you think, I want to hear it.
You're putting that chum in the water because you think, that's what I want a woman to say to me, is, I'm into girls. And for you, it was like, that was taken to that level.
Like, oh, he wants... But some people are genuinely into those things.
Absolutely. And so it's like, you know...
And it's very easy for... Let's say a woman comes up to you and she says, I'm also into girls.
And you say, hypothetical situation. Well, let's experiment with that.
Let's have some fun. And you have a situation with this girl and another girl, right? But now this other girl catches your attention.
This original girl who said she's into girls feels left out, feels like you didn't give her enough eye contact or whatever it might be. And now all of a sudden you have a scorned person.
This is, trust me, I've been with girls who actually are into other girls. But I also know, and I, you know, one answer to, like, I'm into girls, I'm into threesomes, is no, you're probably not.
You're probably just saying that because you think I want to hear it. The other answer is, genuinely, I lived that life.
I did it. We all do it when we're, like, 32 and you have a little enough to go on to get it.
And I never thought it really worked. It's my line was always, it's better for the ego than the dick.
I, you know, and, and it's so true. Unless, unless it happens with two people who you both met at exactly the same moment, which I'm sure for someone like you, it does.
One person you know, even if it's just a little longer, you're right, they get jealous. You look into someone's eyes.
Someone is always, first of all, not getting enough dick, because I only have one dick. It's a good one, but there's only one.
Okay. And someone's always not getting enough, I don't know, intensity.
And yeah, it just doesn't work.

And you don't need it to work.

I never really missed it.

Sex itself is great.

Just do it with one person who you're really into and you're good to go.

Yeah.

The idea is always better than the execution.

I mean, I got the feeling with the women.

I mean, the main one who talks, is this Courtney?

Yeah. In the documentary, yeah.
OK. And again, half the story.
Sorry to butcher bubble people who hate this from the get-go. But again, half the story in the documentary.
Because, I mean, I saw her text messages in Jamie's piece. And they're very like, I want you to squeeze my head off.
Okay. I mean, this is the thing with these text messages, right? Any of these text messages are sort of like any bedroom talk that you have with a partner.
In the moment. I don't say that.
Right, whatever it is you say, whether it's, like okay it's this you walk in on your parents having sex it feels awful you're like this is disgusting i can't believe this this has ruined my life but like they're not doing anything wrong they're just having sex and enjoying each other right like a lot of these things a lot of these messages that like look whether or not it was like uh hey this will be a funny thing to send or like hey like or or something where it's like i like we are caught in the heat of the moment anytime you take something like that and put it out in the sunlight it doesn't look as good you know well it's like anytime you take half right the conversation right that's my complaint there's a reason it's half, right? There's a reason that you're only... Okay, but then you're not doing journalism.
You're just a fucking hack. And you have a narrative, and then a narrative is not synonymous with the truth.
I just always want what is the truth or as close as we can get to it. Don't give me your side of the story.
I don't give a fuck about your side. Just do your job.
Just serve me, a person who wants information. I don't care what your take is.
And I feel like that, I can't even get that in the newspaper anymore. Yeah.
I mean, I get it where it's supposed to be on the op-ed page, but it's not supposed to be on the front page. And I can't find that anymore.
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Learn more at professional.dce.harvard.edu. I mean, this is a good microcosm of what you have to do.
You can't get it just from one side. There are things that I saw in that documentary that were possibly not in the article and vice versa.
But again, the big corrective to me is the article. It's much fuller.
Again, show me the whole text. Show me the exchange.
Just not one side of it. And, you know, this, again, if I had only watched the documentary, I would have thought that you were under the sort of Damocles legally right now.
And then when you realize, when you read the article, again, not in the documentary, Gloria Allred, who is representing the woman, who's represented, I mean, that's sort of how she made her reputation, and mostly with very valid cases. I mean, Gloria Allred's good at her job.
The woman who was accusing you of sexual assault, Gloria Allred dropped her. I mean, when Gloria Allred drops you...
Yeah, not a good sign. And that woman, again, refutable things, people, didn't see it in the documentary, read it in the article, would not sign an affidavit about the things that she claimed against you.
And again, something I didn't see in the documentary, after she claimed this, was still following you all around Europe and like showing up like a stalker. Yeah.
Okay. Again, this is the full picture.
Now, if the rest of you want to just fucking believe, again, what you already believed and not actually take in new information, that's your right. I mean, I could see people just saying, yeah, but just even all without that, I hate him because he, you know, let's take, okay, let's say you carved your initial in somebody.
Now, again, here's the two different sides. The woman, documentary, or maybe I read it.

The woman says it was an inch deep.

Do you know how, you know, an inch?

Do you know in the human body how deep an inch would go?

Oh, yeah.

And we just, because that's the woman, excuse me,

but because that's the woman saying it, it's like, oh, wow, an inch. I mean, you'd hit bone or the kidney or something, but certainly not an inch.
On the other hand, why do you do that for? And important question, did you sterilize the knife? Okay, so this is part of the whole bigger picture, right? Where it's like, you get in these things, you get in these moods, you get in these whatever. And like, you know, especially if you're inebriated or especially if whatever, you start to go, this is a great idea.
And it's like, wait, people get tattoos of each other's initials all the time. That's so true.
And by the way, like, i'm not performing surgery right you know it's like it's all all of these things in a consensual relationship that were pre-discussed and all of these things that were consented to whatever they might have been between two people it's like if we're going to be if we're're going to be liberal or even we're going to be libertarian about what people want to do. Two people want to do this thing.
You guys go ahead and do it. I mean, there's obviously limits in terms of we want to keep people safe and things like that.
But that's a very interesting part of this where it's sort of a wedge issue with the woke, because they're all for always, and I'm mostly with them on this, by the way. They, like everything, do it obnoxiously very often, but I'm with them on the idea that expanding rights is a good thing, and expanding our view of what anyone can be and claim to be without being ridiculous.
I mean, I can't claim I'm 29, although I've seen people try that. I'm not even really down with I can claim I'm another race, although people have certainly tried to do that.
But we certainly have, you know, Facebook has what, 56 genders that they list? So this idea that's very much in the woke culture, that you can, we should not shame people for whatever they, trans, whatever they're doing outside the just old boundaries is good. BDSM falls into that category.
Sure. And in fact, again, in the article, he points out that BDSM, which stands for...
What does that stand for? Bondage, Dominance, Sadomasochism. Bondage, Dominance, Sadomasochism, and BDS.
I think Sadomasochism. Sadomasochism, okay.
So that kind of stuff. Could be wrong with that.
The, I think it's called the Diagnostic Manual of,

I can't remember, but it's a very famous.

BDSM.

Well, no, it's a book.

It's the psychiatry Bible.

It's called the Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorders

or something.

I call it the Big Book of Crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Big Book of Crazy says BDSM is no longer considered

a disorder.

We look at it like trans.

We look at it like trans. Gay used to be in the DSM.
Exactly. That's what my point is that it's a little squirrelly for them because they're trying to, you know, you're getting hung on something that on the other side of this, you know, is it this, that's like, we don't kink shame.
We don't, this is a thing. And he, it's just like being trans or something that's different, but we don't shame it.
Cause I have a wedge for your wedge and it's, it's this. Well, hello.
Yeah. Let's talk.
It's this clip for the internet. Yeah.
I it's, it's, I believe that someone has the right to think however they want to think, behave however they want to behave and believe whatever they want to believe. I'm affording them the right to do that, but I'm also reserving the right for myself to have my own opinion about it.
Yeah. So if you want to do whatever it is that you want to do, whatever your proclivities might be, you go ahead and do that.
But I get to have an opinion about this. And me having an opinion that doesn't align itself with what you're doing doesn't make me a bad person any more than it makes you wrong.
So if somebody looks at any behavior, mine, anyone else's, and goes, I don't like that, fine. No, but you're allowed to think what you want.
But it's the action that has people more upset. Right.
But when, again... But then where do you draw that line? Because the action between two gay people is probably something that would make, you know, a heteronormative person, you know, who is very traditional upset as well.
That's true. I mean, that's the Kevin Spacey case a little bit.
Like, yeah, like, yeah, it's politically incorrect to say it. But I think there is a little bit of difference between the straight world and the gay world.
Sure. As far as approach.
Sure. Not that it's all of my gay friends were like honey i saw your text messages that's it they go oh my god if people hacked into grinder and put grinder chats public none of us would have jobs anymore you know so it's like you have gay friends one they must be trying to fuck you yeah yeah yeah yeah By the way, the call me by your name thing definitely made an impact.

I don't know if it's just that, Army.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, yeah, I mean, that's where it gets interesting,

is that BDSM or whatever this is, it is now like it goes up on that shelf

with first it was gay and then it was trans and then it was, you know, whatever. There's, again, 56 things you can put up there.
Look at the pride flag. I can't, I don't know what all the fucking letters are.
I mean, it's like, it's like everybody who's not just man on the top of the woman, get it over with, with the lights out, you know, is something else. And that's part of what you are.
And like either of these women, again, were the syndrome I described before of, yes, I'm into threesomes and they were just saying it for you, or they are just legitimately into this. But again, I mean, their texts are fucking dirty.
I mean, and, you know, now describe for me this scene. You said everything is pre, I read a phrase in there, like CDC, like preconceived scenes.
Yeah, I mean, the idea... Like, you know...
Yeah, you negotiate. You talk.
Like, I'm going to be acting like I'm raping you, but we've talked about this before, and it's not really that because we know it's happening. Correct.
And that applies to any BDSM scene that you might engage in. So you have to have the pre-production meeting.
Yeah, of course. A table reading.
You have a table read. Really? Okay, now let's see it on its feet, guys.
Really? Is that how it is? No, but it's like you you negotiate boundaries you negotiate what you're comfortable with hey listen i'm gonna tell you these are the things that i like now you tell me the things that you like where is there on on our venn diagram of passion where do they overlap okay well what about this can we do this why can we do x y and z here yes but i'm not as crazy about that one so can we do that it's like it's

it's a negotiation always and that's the way that but how is it specific like i'm gonna come over i'm dressed as a pirate i'm gonna um that's your thing no i'm saying is this how it happened like like tell me walk me through like the scene that led up to the carving of the initial like like you say everything was discussed.

Yeah, that wasn't like a scene scene like and i mean you didn't just start doing it no no no no it was i mean like ow what is that yeah yeah yeah surprise yeah it wasn't that no no no it was happening yeah and it's like something you talk about before and like and i was always very careful about doing that about like being like let's discuss what this is going to be and then also if you want to stop at any point say orange and we will pause and we'll just hold for a second or say red and we will stop stop so you have a safe word yeah right two one for pause one for, one for stop. I see.
Yeah. Pause is like, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed, but I don't want to stop.
Like, just give me a second, because this is intense. And you always...
100%. So it wasn't like when you were driving.
Correct. Correct.
Because when the cops say stop, that's a suggestion. You actually did stop.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
All right. But that's essential for people to engage in sort of like intense behavior.

But I feel like, okay, I read you a quote from the article where you said like,

if they're not feeling good about it, I can't feel good about it.

Right.

But I feel like some of the stuff, they weren't feeling good about it,

and it did make you feel good.

Like, I feel like you were into their pain.

Thank you. I can't feel good about it.
I can't feel good about it. But I feel like some of the stuff, they weren't feeling good about it, and it did make you feel good.
Like, I feel like you were into their pain. Well, if someone is a masochist, then when they're not feeling good, they're feeling good.
You know, like, that's... And by the way, you don't engage in stuff like this with someone who doesn't enjoy it.
Like, you can talk to somebody and go, this is what I'm into, And they can go, oh, that's interesting. I've never tried it.
I'd be interested to try it. And then all of a sudden you go, okay, well, let's, let's see how we slowly tried this world for you.
And that's one way to do it. Or you have the conversation with someone and they go, I'm not into that at all.
And you go, okay, then we'll have normal me on top lights off sex. Like that's fine too.
It's so, it's so it's for it's for the for the regular mind it's hard to process it's almost like that you know that old famous joke about what did the masochist say to the sadist and back the masochist says to the sadist hurt me and the sadist says no thank you yeah yeah you know it's almost like i mean does anybody just anymore, for Christ's sake i mean you're a good-looking guy i mean okay and to be to be fair to that point i think a lot of the behavior that i was engaging in was coming from extenuating circumstances whether it be you know a certain displeasure about my own life, whether it be, you know, fueled by... Your abuse.
Yeah, that was, I mean, that was obviously... How old were you when that happened? Uh, like 13.
And how long did it go on for? Uh, I'd say about a year. Right.
It was a member of clergy, like that kind of stereotypical kind of trope. I was out front on religion.
I always said you said it religious like that's that's where we are and so okay you know it it was it was interesting you know and it was something funny enough it was something i never ever spoke about and was never open about and never okay with and had so much shame about like what does that me? And the answer is, it doesn't fucking say anything about me. Like, no 13-year-old is like, I want to do this.
Like, it's just not the way it goes. You know what I'm ashamed of? They never tried.
Yeah. Anyway, now that I'm canceled.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Join the party, dude.
It's pretty great. But in a way, it is liberating.
Dude, it's incredibly liberating. Yeah.
Because so much of my life leading up to there was, it was two things. It was being preoccupied with how I was perceived, which now you don't have to care about.
Once everyone just decides that they hate you, you go, oh, well, then I don't need anything from you people anyway. I guess I should just learn to be content with myself.

Right.

And then you go do that.

And it feels fucking amazing.

And then when anybody says anything to you afterwards,

they go, I don't like you.

You go, okay, I don't care.

Right.

Like, your opinion is yours, and you're allowed to have it.

I just don't agree.

But before, I needed that.

I needed that validation.

Shake time.

You know? Yes.

Like, you telling me that you liked my movie made me feel good. Well, all of us in show business, this is what we have in common.
I call it, Mommy, look at me. I'm doing it.
No, you're not looking. I'm doing it now.
That's all we're doing. 100%.
My show goes on at 7 o'clock, I don't do social media.

Smart.

So my likes have to come from people who I actually know.

When we've done an especially great show, there's a bunch of people who text me or email me.

And people watch it right when it's on, 7 o'clock out here, 10 o'clock back east, Friday night. And yeah, I'm not going to lie.
You like that. I did something.
I worked hard on it. I want you to like it.
You have other things, or maybe, maybe this is an assumption, that you have other things in your life that give you that sense of self-worth. So that is an icing on cake where i was before i didn't have any of that that was all i had uh i'd be pretty not okay without the career the career but i'm saying i had to you know but because i never got married can we delineate between the career and the compliments?

Yes.

So the career is the success.

Yeah.

It is the, you know, I mean, this is obviously a nice house.

Like, it's all these things, right? It's respect.

It's respect.

It's that people, you know.

By the way, it's calling a restaurant and getting a table, even if they're full.

That's it, too.

There's layers to it that are great.

But the most, for the game I'm in, it's relevant. People want to know what I said about it, and they trust, you know, a lot of people hate.
Do you feel like that's a big responsibility? Yeah, of course it is. I speak for, like, there's very few people who speak not for the fringes, like we were talking about before.
It's very easy to be in one of the bubbles.

You've got an automatic audience who just wants to be fed back

what they already think, and it's easy to do.

I'm trying to do something very different,

but the people who appreciate it, appreciate it on a very deep level.

Sure.

And so if you took that away from me,

I'm not sure I wouldn't be carving my initials in people. And my initials are BM.
And I hated that growing up as a kid. Because whenever we had to put it anywhere, the kids, my face would get red, beat red with embarrassment.
Because, like, I remember we made pottery and you'd have to carve your initials in it. I'm not saying your initial story is any worse or better than mine.

I'm just saying I really suffered when that happened

because it would be BM.

And then the kids say, BM, you have me.

Name is BM.

Yeah, yeah.

To this day, I kind of don't like my name for that reason.

I mean, we all have trauma.

Sure.

OK, you got fucked by a priest.

I had bad initials.

Yeah, I got fucked by a priest.

Kids call and send your initials out loud. We're not the same, Bill.
I'm going to call it a push. So, but it didn't seem to like, like, how old were you when you say when you got over it? Because there was a study that was done some years ago, and it was surprising a lot of people, and a lot of people want it suppressed, because it did not confirm the, you know, the politically correct opinion, which is that this is a trauma that cannot be, you know, outlived.
And the truth is that most of the kids, like, they did. They're resilient.
They like, they processed it. It was bad.
It's not good that it happened, but it didn't fuck up their whole lives. I don't subscribe to the idea that there is necessarily any trauma that you can't overcome.

I do subscribe to the idea that overcoming a trauma is almost always a more sort of like extended sense of pain than the initial trauma itself.

Like you have...

Break that down for me. Okay.
Extended. So what happened to me took a year, right? Right.
Me working through it took way more than a year. And in a lot of ways was more painful.
And it's like, it's like this, you put, you pull a muscle in your back, right? Now you're going to have to go to a massage therapist and they're going to dig into that muscle and it's going to hurt. And it's probably going to hurt worse than your initial tweaking of your back.
But they got to get in there and they got to figure out what that is and get to the core of what that issue is. But I genuinely believe that any trauma can be worked through.

And once you punch through the other side of that, what's waiting for you is always better than where you were pre-trauma. So how do you work through trauma? I mean, you know, therapy, you know, there's therapy for me has been a life changer.
But what's the connection for a layman like me? I think there is one, but I don't put some meat on the bones there. The connection between the trauma and then treating women, and, well, being into being a DSM, wanting to be dominant with women.

I don't know exactly what the link there is. There might be some.
There might be none. The documentary would like the narrative to be, and again, I don't know if this is bullshit.
It could not be bullshit because it makes sense, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Their narrative is that you're family.
It reminded me a lot of the girl with the dragon tattoo. You ever see that movie? Remember the family he's investigating? Sure.
They're all kind of, they're rich. Yeah, yeah.
And they're all kind of weird and fucked up in their own way. This one's a Nazi and that one's a Nazi.
And then one of them is an animal. Just killing is yeah yeah yeah yeah um kellen scargard who's a genius actor but uh um that's their narrative that you like from the apple doesn't fall far from the tree from your great grandfather who was you know abusive and then through the different family members and some like the kennededys, who are like, you know, incredible womanizers, and they can't ever stop.
It's just in the family tree, and it comes down. Sure.
That's how they present it. So how much do you think that's true? I mean, in terms of, like, addictions, which, like, I also include process addictions into addictions, whether that be,

you know, gambling, overeating, sex, whatever, whatever process addictions you use as dopamine hits. Right.
Is there a genetic component to, you know, the passing along of addictions? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's pretty clear that we're going to see that.
Um, but this is, this is the difference though, is it's not my fault that anyone else in my family had behaviors. Right.
It's not my fault that anyone in my family was an alcoholic. It's my responsibility to know this, and it's my responsibility to work on myself so that I don't blindly stumble into the same pitfalls that other people before me have stumbled into.

Right.

And maybe there's a way where you sort of go, the buck stops here.

Like, let me go and actually work on myself.

Let me go and figure out what is actually going on in here. Let me pull this machine apart and see what cog needs to be polished a little bit and put everything back together so that my kids aren't saying that I'm included in that whole chain and I'm giving my kids a fresh start.
Yeah. I mean, the one thing that I read was in the article about a tweet you had about like 2021 is going to be the year that's going to like kiss my ass.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did that for sure.
I mean, like, what was it? Was that just you're drunk? Because that. Oh, I was super drunk.
OK. And by the way, I was super drunk.
I had just gotten into a fight with an ex, my ex-wife. I was in the process of negotiating a couple really big deals that were going to be great.
And like I was, it was just hubris. And it was pride coming before the fall.
That to me was something that made me think, oh, that's like what a rich kid, great looking rich kid would do. But I would never even think to do because that just wasn't who i you know i just was a loser in high school and like it took you know it took me a long time and it just it's also kind of not my generation but by the way generation most of that was projecting because i didn't feel that way yeah like and and most of my behavior was projecting most of my i have to look good i I have to have a perfectly fitted suit.
My hair has to be brushed perfectly. I have to be doing this and that.
I need to look perfect. Anyone who's doing that, they're not doing it because they actually think they're perfect.
Most of the time they're doing it because they're projecting and they feel like shit about themselves. I mean, you do look perfect.
And if you keep talking about it, I'm going to fucking stub this out on your face. No.
Thank you. I don't think you have to do, you know, on top of winning the lottery, you did win.
Well, although I hear you're broke now. Yeah.
Yeah. So you didn't get any family money? No.
Can I ask you a very personal question? Sure. The baking soda, is that you? No.
No. Okay.
So the baking soda, I'm really glad we can clear this up. Because that was my thing in school, baking soda boy.
Most personal question I have. My BM was baking soda boy, right? Really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is this a coincidence? Well, yes and no. So Arm & Hammer Baking Soda was owned by a company called Church & Dwight, which was like a big, massive holding company, right? And Arm & Hammer was one of the subsidiaries of Church & Dwight.
My great-grandfather became very successful with art and oil and stuff like that. And then he said, oh, my God, this company is my name.
I'd like to buy the company they said uh no oh so it was his name it was arm and hammer it was arm and hammer but it was the company arm and hammer baking soda was around before he was born that's so interesting yeah so it wasn't like it wasn't named after him it was meant to be meant to be yeah so then he did that sort of like very goofy rich guy thing that you can only do if you have too much money where he goes no no no but it's my name i want your company and they go no no it's not for sale and then it became a publicly offered company or publicly traded company and he bought up a majority of stock look nobody who takes himself from um he wasn't rich when he was born and wasn't he in russia at first Yeah, they were, yeah, they were. Yeah, okay.
They were, well, his family was sent to America by the Kremlin to start the Communist Party in America. Okay.
So they were, I mean, they were doctors, but, you know, they were. Yeah, I mean, even as a kid, when I was interested in history and politics, I mean, I was, my father was a newsman.
So this, I knew who Armandheimer was. And it was always in Russia.
He was always like with the, he was like, and I think I was right. He was one of our liaisons.
He had deep roots there. And, you know, when you look back on it, it's like, oh, yeah, he was a communist until he got rich.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, who wants to be a rich communist? Yeah, it doesn't make much sense.
No, it's like, oh, my God. Wait, so now I have this money.
I have to give it to everybody? Yeah. I'm renouncing my party affiliation.
Yeah. But nobody who has a fortune like that doesn't do some, I mean, most they say all great fortunes start with some kind of crime.
I mean, the Kennedys were bootleggers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, so, but again. I want to know what Warren Buffett gets into behind closed doors.
You know, I had dinner with Warren Buffett last year. He's just the nicest guy.
The greatest. Yeah.
I mean, he called me up and said, you know, he's the biggest fan, ever misses the show. Wow.
Although he can't stay up when it's on. It's not even on that late.
It's on the Biden sleep program. Yeah.
Nothing after 8 p.m. Hey, let me tell you, this guy is no Biden.
No, I know. He is proof that that is a case-by-case thing because he's older than Biden, and he's sharp as a tack.
We had a great time. He said, I see you're coming to Omaha to do a show.
I can't stay up till 8 o'clock when the show is. I'd love to see it, but if you all want to have dinner at 5 o'clock, I will go anywhere in Omaha to meet you.
Yeah.

Of course, we met at his favorite restaurant. And we went to the special Warren Buffett room.

And he just could not be more charming, more on the ball,

full of great stories.

He sent me a, oh, it's so adorable.

He sent me a VHS tape of Hank Greenberg.

Hank Greenberg was the first Jewish superstar baseball player. Yeah.
And was very meaningful to young Warren Buffett. Thank you, Warren.
This means so much. And now I have to go out and buy a VCR.
Not a VCR. It wasn't that bad.
It was a DVD. Okay.
A DVD. OK.
Even still. Yeah.
You know. Yeah.

I was trying to get a movie from somebody recently.

And I was like, can you get me a DVD?

Like, there's a nice piece. Do you have it in Laserdisc?

There's a link.

It's a link.

I said, I'll send you a telegram about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you seem like you're in a good place now.

I mean, you seem.

I am.

Yeah.

I mean.

You know, it's kind of like. Because now, now like the good place only comes from walking through hell you know it's like it it was it was it was a brutal experience do you know the song me and bobby mcgee oh yeah yeah yeah janice jofflin yeah yeah freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose to lose yeah and it's it's I mean, it's like someone might look at me and go, yeah, but financially, you're in a very different position than you've ever been in your entire life.
And I look at that and I go, yeah. And you know what it's taught me is that I don't need that because I've never been happier than I've ever been in my entire life.
Maybe this is a bad time to bring it up, but this podcast doesn't pay. Yeah.
Yeah, fair. That's all right.
I'm don't know what they thought i'm used to i don't know what they told you to get you here i'm here for the free water dude like i don't need to get paid and you don't drink anymore huh no no you miss it not really i do like okay here's the thing i every now and then i miss it and i still. Yeah.
Every now and then I'll watch someone have a martini and I can just, I can feel the vodka in my mouth, that unctuous, cold vodka just slide. Or like watch someone drink a scotch or a whiskey and like I can smell it and I can taste it and all those things.
Yeah, there are things about it that I miss. As an addition to a meal, it can make an experience, right? But also, I look at what I've gotten in my life since stopping putting anything in my body.
I wouldn't trade it. You know, it's like the way I wake up in the morning, first of all, without ever feeling like shit, which is invaluable in and of itself.
But like, I wake up in the morning and like, my head is clear and I'm grateful and I'm happy and I'm alive.

And like, I have a morning routine that if you would have told me about it

five years ago, I would have said it was the most ridiculous thing

in the entire world.

Let me guess.

One, your dick's inside of a supermodel's mouth.

Two.

Yeah, only way to wake up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cleansing foam.

And then I hit snooze.

And then I hit snooze.

Yeah.

Snooze. No, I mean, I wake up in the morning and like I make myself a cup of coffee and I go and I sit outside and like I because so much this it's it's twofold.
One, I just like meditate and I watch the clouds and I connect with nature and I feel good about life. And the other thing is we spend so much time looking at our phone or whatever that like, I feel like our eyes are always focused very close to us.
If I start my day looking far, it just, it just gives me a sense of perspective where it's like, this is a much bigger picture than this, you know, like looking at my phone, reading news that makes me upset, like fuck all that noise for a a second. Like, I'm going to go outside and I'm going to watch a cloud.
Right. And I'm going to be okay.
That's, you know, Brando famously, I don't know if you remember, too young to remember this, but he did an interview with Connie Chung. Do you remember who that was? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay. She was a big news person like Diane Sawyer.
And she famously did an interview with him. And he said very much the same thing.
Like, It was like, why aren't you an actor anymore? You're the greatest actor. Oh, Sam's the greatest actor.
He pretends he likes me when I want some biscuits. That's the dog, right? He was talking about his dog? Yeah.
And then like, well, what did you do today? You know, Connie Chung, all A students, putting the leaflets on her notebook together, and she's like, what do you do? And he, well, today I watched an ant crawl up that drainpipe. And I don't think he was fucking around.
I mean, I don't think he was lying. It's hard to tell with that guy.
But yeah. It's just Marlon Brando, the greatest actor.
But I think that's exactly what he did. And then ate 12 cream puffs.

I think he did that too.

17 Big Macs.

And then fucked the maid.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The way these guys get lazy, it's hard to believe.

I know.

I mean, it's so interesting the way it really is your,

the personality you're born with.

You know, I've had so many parents tell me,

as someone who's never had kids or wanted them,

like, when you have kids, like, you can tell who they are at two.

Have a great day. I've had so many parents tell me, as someone who's never had kids or wanted them, like, when you have kids, like, you can tell who they are at two.
100%. Like, oh, that's a wild one, you know? Yeah.
And I feel like I was always and very lucky to be not addictive. I don't, I'm not really, I like what I like.
But, like, I mean, I could make jokes about I'm not addicted to pot. I've been smoking it for 45 years.
But I'm really not in the sense that I smoke it when I want to. It never calls to me.
You just happen to want to smoke it all day every day. But I don't.
See, that's the thing. If I did, you smoked pot all day? Oh, I used to smoke pot.
I used to smoke 20 joints a day. I mean, I was really.
You mean bank oh 100 oh see i was that's never what i was yeah i was always a situational smoker um never every day yeah i wanted to work like i couldn't smoke a joint like this like a joint going out because i'm not puffing it never happened a drink a drink like getting watery because the ice melted before I finished it, not a chance. Really? No.
And by the way, if yours started to get watery or melty, I'd be like, are you going to finish that? Like, what's going on? Are you okay? Are you Steve Bannon? Yeah. Like what's happening over here? But, you know, but I also don't know how much of that was physical dependency.
Because I never had physical withdrawal symptoms from anything. But mental withdrawal symptoms I definitely had.
Of like, now I'm stuck in how uncomfortable I feel. I need to self-medicate.
All right. So look into that camera.
Which one? Isn't that great the way I built the cameras here? Yeah. I mean, this place.
This one? That one. Right there.
This one? And just say something bad about yourself and whip yourself so that people who are hating us right now know. Because one of the things I did like in the Jamie Kirchick article is you owned it.
100%. You're like, OK.
Now, this is where it's a little different. Love is, you know, all is fair in love and more is an old saying.
And women hurt men, men hurt women in the love game. Nothing in my life, and I'm 68, has ever been actually more traumatic than being dumped by my high school girlfriend at 17.
She wasn't wrong to do it. She was right to do it.
But I'm saying love hurts.

Yeah.

So like just that's the first layer of that is that we all hurt each other when we're going through this. Now, there's an added layer to this with you, which I think, you know, you owned up to love him and leave him.
Well, you know, I had a period where I did the same thing, I think, because I had a shitty adolescence where I couldn't get girls, my own fault. And then it was like, oh, now I'm like a gay blade out here and I can go out with this one and this one and this one.
And, you know, some feelings get hurt. It's a shitty thing to do.
You're a cad. So you were like a cad on a higher level.
On steroids. Plus BDSM.
Right. So the way that looked for me is I would find someone and I would grab them.
And I'd be like, you are a shiny new little toy that is going to fix me and make me feel great. And I need that because I don't know how to give that to myself.
But you wanted them to fix you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
I didn't know this like consciously, but like, I feel like shit. You're amazing.
I'm going to just glom on to you. Right.
And we're going to have a whirlwind. We're going to take trips.
We're going to go to amazing restaurants. We're going to go fucking stay in amazing places.
We're going to have crazy fun sex. Are you asking me? Let's go, dude.
Because I'm signed up. Let's go.
But then what would happen is I would suck these people into this whirlwind. And then the minute it got real, or the minute it got intimate, or the minute it got serious, I would go, whoa, I never signed up for this.
And I would just, I would move on. And like Seinfeld, like the Seinfeld episode, I was a terrible breaker-upper.
Like, I just wasn't good at it. Well, again, not on this level, but I think it's not that uncommon.

What I was a terrible breaker-upper. Like, I just wasn't good at it.
Well, again, not on this level,

but I think it's not that uncommon,

what I was sort of describing about myself,

for men to go through,

we're always at a disadvantage when we're younger because women mature faster.

So, like, the 17-year-olds don't want to go out

with other 17-year-olds.

They want to go out with a guy in college

who's a little more mature

and has it together a little more.

So we're always kind of like fighting against that. We don't do well sometimes in adolescence.
It looks like it that way on Instagram, but that's just the people who look like you. They're doing very well.
There's a lot of incels in their basement masturbating. Sure.
Okay.

So then you get a little older, and it's like, oh, okay.

Now the tables have turned a little bit.

Now I'm doing better.

I'm making some money.

I'm not a complete idiot.

Women want to go out with me.

And so there's this period where it kind of switches, where you feel like, oh, instead of the women who wouldn't give me a shot, now I can. And, you know, that's just inevitable, I think, in life.
I don't know if that has anything to do with your thing, but I just want you, I want people to understand that you get, like, the bad part because I think you do. I mean, look, dude,

like the, the bad behavior that I did, I, I cheated on my wife. Right.
I, I used people to make me feel better. I was callous and inconsiderate with people and their emotions and their wellbeing.
And I wanted what I wanted, and I was going to take it at any cost, even if it was at an emotional cost of someone else. Right.
And that is shitty behavior. Yeah, and that's very honest.
That's as honest as, I mean, that's as believable as I could expect. Yeah.
And what else can you do? You can't change the past. Right.
And the thing about it is, there are things in my behavior that I have to take accountability for. Right.
Because that is pivotal for me learning and growing from it. But it is also important.
But it is important also people know that, like, one of my big issues with this, because victim blaming, no, that's bad, but there should be victim accountability. One of the sad things I think about, not just this case, but a lot of Me Too cases, is that, like, it's great that Me Too happened.
That is certainly a wonderful, necessary corrective that we needed to have long overdue. But one of the upsides was that some women interpreted it as, I think, the opposite of feminism, where I have no agency.
Like, I would have liked to heard one word out of, what's her name, Courtney's mouth about, yeah, maybe he was a schmuck, but like, you know, I could have left. I have agency.
I mean, the first date was like, you know, looking for rope. I mean, you know, honey, if the first date is to Home Depot, I say get out now.
It's not like it wasn't a train you could see coming. And, you know, also when I got to say, again, not victim blaming, and maybe this is, maybe she's being honest, but whenever I hear an attractive woman say, especially about a hot movie star, I didn't know who he was.
I'm like, come on. Did they get Wi-Fi under the rock you live?

Because I just never buy that.

I didn't know who he was.

I bet you you did.

And so, anyway.

And also...

But then there's...

Okay, now, to your point,

a lot of them did know. Of course.
And a lot of them were then... She knew, I think.
Yeah, yes. But a lot of them were willing to put up with things that they normally would have not.
Exactly. To be a part of it.
And that's what you took advantage of. Correct.
Yes.

Correct.

Okay.

At least we're at this. If I was a-

This is honesty.

Yeah.

If I was a, you know, manager of a regional bank

or something like that, then like,

there's no way all of this-

If you were some loser selling timeshares in the Cayman-

Who does that?

Who does that? By the way- I am so sorry. I loved it.
You say what you want. I loved it.
I would love to be a timeshare salesman. It is so fun.
It is? Oh, my God, it's so fun. I mean, when I saw that on TMZ, I was like, wow.
I didn't know what to think. But ultimately, I was like, fuck, this guy's got balls.
I mean, if that was me, if I had gone through that whole thing.

That's the wrong vowel.

It's bills.

Like, I have two kids.

But it's balls not to have bills, because certainly there's family money you could tap. Is there not?

I mean.

If you, I mean, how could the Armand Hammer, the baking soda king, and with a side business and oil, I mean, that's like Kennedy money, or like any family like that. Somebody's got that money in your family.
Well, my dad has passed, right? And so he was sort of like the last of that dynasty or whatever where's the money it's so complicated and like also i have come to the place where i understand that there are no free lunches and anything that you take always has strings especially from people who love to give you to give because then they know they've got

strings. So what I would rather do is I would rather go get a job selling timeshare.
I would

rather go get a job. I applied for a job to be a drama teacher.
I applied for a job to be a

landscaper. I applied for a job to be a building manager.
And the Cayman Islands refuses to give

me work permits. We need a court for the canceled, just like any other court.
And when you go in, you can present this as part of the request for a pardon after six years, we are presenting as evidence that my client worked as a timeshare salesman it's got to be time served it's got to be time served a little bit yeah yeah yeah i mean it's not quite stabbing trash on the highway yeah but it's it's closer to that than being the star of the man from uncle correct correct love that one by the way you know that was one of my favorite shows as a kid. I lived for the man from Uncle.
It was a great show. And I thought, you know, I know it didn't, like, light up the box office, but I guess it was a little too sophisticated, you know? Still fun to make.
I'll bet. You know, we get to travel all over Europe and have a great time.
Yeah. No, I mean, everybody, I loved everybody in it.
But just real quick to get back to the, to the sort of like job thing. Like, is there a world in which I could just say, fuck it.
And, you know, figure out how to borrow money from family or, or do anything like that. Yeah.
But that's just not who I am. That's not what I want to do.
That's never been who I have wanted to be. When I was 19 years old, I decided to go be an actor.
I didn't follow in the family footsteps. I didn't graduate from high school.
I didn't go to college. I didn't get an MBA.
I didn't do any of those things. If I would have done that, my life path and trajectory would have been laid.

And I would have job dependency.

I would have a paycheck.

I would have all those things.

But that wasn't who I was.

And that oil company is still in existence?

Occidental Petroleum.

Yeah, Occidental Petroleum.

But it's publicly traded now.

Like, it's not our company.

Yeah, okay.

But, you know, somebody always has a lot of the stock from the family.

I don't.

No, but somebody, I can't believe some hammer. Yeah.
Well, it's only my dad and my aunt. And we know how my aunt feels about us.
So, you know, and my dad's dead. It's interesting the way some of the people, like, got in cahoots with each other.
When you were, you know, it's funny, I was just writing this thing for a Friday show about Biden and I think the ultimate test for this is not going to be about politics. It's just that this country is run by mean girls.
Mean girls in the media, mean girls in politics. And when they smell blood in the water of a vulnerable person, that person will not survive.
Joe Biden is a vulnerable person now with blood in the water, and he will not be the nominee for president in 2024. I guarantee it, because the mean girls will never stop.
And I feel like in your situation, there was, like, it's interesting the way these different people from different films, they like sort of found each other like united in this cause of the monster. Yeah.
And I mean, the wife, the ex-wife, didn't she connect with the one who's claiming sexual assault? Something like that. There was something, it's in the article.
And wow, I mean, that's got to be tough. And again, just to go by what's factual, irrefutable, I read in the article, not in the thing, there was an investigation in the Cayman Islands of the claims, and it was a fairly glowing report.
Again, I'm just reporting the facts. I think two things are being conflated here.
There was an investigation by the LAPD that lasted for two and a half years. So I was under the sword of Damocles, legally speaking.
Okay. For two and a half years.
They went through phones, emails, eyewitness report. Like, they investigated me for two and a half years in a time where if they could have nailed someone like me, it would have been such a boon for the LAPD.
I could not agree more. And after- And the newspapers.
Yeah. And after two and a half years, they came to the conclusion that there is no evidence any crime had been committed.
Well, that didn't deter- And then the other thing is there was a full psychological evaluation that I had to go through in the Cayman Islands because of the custody battle. So I had to subject myself for a multi-month full psychological evaluation.
And the report at the end of that was glowing. I mean...
By the way, they're like, he's got issues, but he's not what people are saying. I'm just going by what the facts that Jamie laid out.
The wife, the ex-wife, is like, he's dangerous. He cannot be around people.
I'm wearing extra security right now. Yeah, yeah.
A codpiece. Yeah, yeah.
Just because I know. But then the report says he's not dangerous.
Correct. He can be around people.

Correct.

So here's my ultimate bottom line about this kind of thing is women, of course, throughout history, much more vulnerable and have every reason to be suspicious of us. We are toxic in many ways.
but they also believe in something that is not talked about I think enough

which is what I would call romantic poetic justice, which is if you fuck over a woman in one way, she feels she is completely justified in fucking you over, maybe not on the facts of what you actually did, but on something else. I don't think Mia Farrow really thinks Woody Allen molested the kid.
I just think he started dating Soon-Yi while they were still together, and that was a little hurtful. But it's like that's what I mean by romantic, poetic justice.
It doesn't have to logically make sense. If you hurt me over here, if I could hurt you over there, even if it's a lie, it's justice.
But also, you know, like you pointed out, there's a long history of women being vulnerable and being taken advantage of by men. Yeah.
And I think that there is a way where we need to acknowledge that the pendulum did need to shift, but there needs to be a sort of like, as Reagan would say, trust but verify kind of aspect of this. Because if, I mean, I know a guy who, I knew a guy who went to prison for years because a girl accused him of something.
Yeah. And then later, she wrote him a message saying, I'm really sorry about that.
My parents thought that this was blah, blah, blah. Yeah, no, no, no.
I mean, it's... By the way, he got out of prison.
I met him when he was sweeping floors and working at a boxing gym. You know, it's like there's no apology parade for these kinds of things, nor should you expect one.
But it's tough. And at the end of the day, it's hurt people hurt people.
Yes. And it's this.
No, the height of the pendulum swinging the wrong way, I think, was 2017 after, you know, just 17, 18, Al Franken having to step down was a low point in that. But also this idea that after 2017,

women lost the ability to lie. They did not.
That's no knock on them. They're humans just like we are, and they didn't lose the ability to lie.
And again, I think poetic romantic justice, It means, yes, you can lie if you have revenge coming.

So I'm not saying people lied about you. I mean, you have to own up being a schmuck.
Correct. And then society has to figure out, like, what is the penalty for being a schmuck? Being a schmuck is not being a rapist.
And, you know, these distinctions matter. We have distinctions in every sort of crime.
And there's first degree murder, manslaughter. You know, I mean, Alec Baldwin is on trial now, not for murder, because no one thinks he actually was like, today I'm going to shoot the cinematographer.
Sure. My view is, if we don't think that, what the fuck are we talking about? Either he meant to shoot and murder the cinematographer, or what are you doing dragging him into this courtroom? You fucking phonies.
It's just phony. But anyway, we do have these distinctions between crimes, and that's what we refuse to do for some reason with this.
It's just easier, again, not to think about it. Wipe that out.
I think the problem is you have people who are genuine victims. People who have been raped.
People who have been abused, assaulted, whatever. And those people deserve their justice.
Those people deserve the right thing to happen for them.

Yes.

Unfortunately, that movement to try to protect and help those people is being co-opted in a way by people who are using it for their own self-interest. And all that's doing is hurting the ability of people who have actually been wronged.

And weakening the movement for those people who it was initially intended for you need to get a charity that's my solution we need to get you people want to give me a lot of money bill let me tell you a lot of money let's brainstorm this yeah find, because I don't see a guy who doesn't want to, like,

amend and give back, you know?

Yeah. I mean, it's like they got their pound of flesh.

Maybe they need another half pound.

I don't know.

I don't know what the thing is.

Fine, fine.

But there just has to be some sort of sane way of saying, this is the commensurate punishment for this crime. Not everything is a hanging offense.
Yeah. And, you know, again, I think it's very counterproductive to feminism that there's never a word about, like, boy, I could have been smarter about that.
Not just the Home Depot, but like... When I saw what I was writing, I was like, wait.
I think you and me, I think we could solve the problems with feminism. It's just the two of us right here, right now.
You have faith in us. Well, you know, like any group, women have different, they're not a monolith.
They have very different ideas of what feminism is. And often it is generational.
I mean, my generation of women, they're more like, you know, we fought for this shit. We actually remember when guys could pinch your ass with total impunity in the office or in front of other people.
Sure, sure. And we, like, that's the battle we fought and we won it.
And maybe we're a little tougher than you are. And so, like, we're not afraid to tell a guy who's creepy, go away.
Yeah. You know, I mean, again, not victim shaming, but these women could have said, oh, wait a second.
And again, the cannibal thing, I think, is kind of a red herring. I mean, that's sort of like, I mean, believe me, your obituary, mine will include, like, 9-11 got fired for saying the thing about the terrorists and like whatever and politically incorrect and yours will say they just can't get that out and it's like the least of it I feel like that was just like sort of I even said that at the time when I think we covered it on the show.
It was like, it's a little beyond Tiger Woods.

We got his text messages, and it was like, I want to own that ass.

It's like, okay.

The inconvenient truth is like hot sex is just not politically correct.

It's just not.

I mean, and sex that's politically correct, it's got to suck.

It doesn't have to be... sex is just not politically correct.
It's just not. Yeah.
I mean, and sex that's politically correct, it's got to suck.

It doesn't have to go this far.

Well, you have a great line in The Thing where you said about why you couldn't do this with your wife.

You said, you can't pull your wife's hair.

But see, I now...

That's good. So I remember that interview.
I was very drunk in that interview. But wait, that's true.
I don't know that it is. I don't know that it is.
I think that there is a... I think it's even called the Madonna Whore Complex.
Yes, there is, of course. Where it's like, if you want to have sex with your wife, where you want to feel free to grab hair, or you want her to X, Y, or Z, and she says no, maybe that's not supposed to be your wife.
Right. Maybe there's a compatibility issue here that is going to lead to an expensive divorce right you know so like i don't know i think that if you're marrying someone who's not the right fit and then all of a sudden complaining about it it's kind of on you bro yeah which by the way bro meaning me yeah i get it.
But people also change and relationships change. Correct.
You know, they morph. It's not the river flows.
Yes. You know? Yes.
Your foot's where you put your foot in the river, but that water that passed over it is all the way downstream. Correct.
Ten years later. Correct.
That's every marriage. Somebody said it is impossible to step into the same river twice.
I don't remember. I love that quote.
It's either Buddha or Carrot Top. Yeah, that's it.
I can't remember which one. But it was somebody like, yes, but that's it.
So, I mean, that's why one reason why I must say I never got married. Sure.
It's because I was like, you know, we use that phrase, I'm not married to it about a lot of things that are like less volatile than actually aligning with another human being. Like that table, I like it.
I'm not married to it. But a human, you're like, I know I'm going to change.
And I don't think I was completely wrong. Now it depends on your personality again., lots of people, I'm just roofing you, don't

worry about it. What is that, by the way?

It's terrifying.

It's coming from you.

Yeah, I know. That's too far even for

me, Bill. Quite a compliment.

You'll find out later.

Have a drink.

What were you talking about?

I'm not married to it.

Married to it, yeah.

I mean, it's always

going to shift. Theful marriages are people who can surf these changes.
Agreed. And they all say that.
Agreed. I think you have to go in with expectations that if you're having hot sex and everything on your wedding night, and even by then sometimes it's over.
I mean, honestly. Sure.
I don't disagree. I don't disagree.
The level of resignation in your face made me almost want to weep. It's this, though.
This is what's complicated about a marriage. And I can't speak to everybody.
But if you're in a marriage where you lose sight of each other, you're going to keep growing as people. But if you're not watching and keeping an eye on the other person, there's a very good chance that you will grow apart.
But it doesn't happen very quickly. It's like a tanker ship that's one degree off you go five miles not a big deal right you go a hundred miles you can't even see each other anymore and then you're blocking the panama canal and then you've suezed and now you've ruined everything yeah yeah yeah no i i mean look i uh i i made so many stupid mistakes in my life and was immature, probably up to the moment.
But I hopefully can improve there to a degree, but way too late in life. But one thing I got right was I kind of knew from the beginning, don't do this.
It's not going to work. You're going to create heartaches for you and your ex-wife.
And also money. Like, not that I'm greedy, but people are like, when I bought a piece of the match, they're like, how did you get that? I'm like, you know how I got that money? No divorce.
No alimony.

No kids.

And no stupid hobbies.

Yeah.

No motorcycle collection, car collection, jewelry, heroin,

you know, whatever it is.

Sure.

Hookers.

It's just, so that's the one thing.

And of course, it makes it so much easier

if you don't have kids or want kids.

When you want kids, you kind of also want to be able

Thank you. That's the one thing.
And of course, it makes it so much easier if you don't have kids or want kids. When you want kids, you kind of also want to be able to give them a stable, you know.
And that's where it's a badly designed system by the God I don't believe in. You know, it's just a badly designed system, especially for men, who it is just in our nature to want new.
I mean, I always laugh when women are like, I want to get bigger tits. I'm like, it's not your tits.
If he has the big tits for two years, he'll want small tits. But I've enjoyed the fuck out of this.
Yeah, me too. I mean, some people will just hate both of us.
That's fine. And you just, I love your equanimity about it.
Yeah. But it's so honest.
The people who will like it, I think, means so much more to me, those people, my people. Yeah.
And you just can't, you can't find a lot of honesty anymore. And this was just an honest, like, owning for the bad, like, exposing the true, not like, and then just how we really feel about shit.
I mean, you know, people are, this area is such a, I mean, race and gender are just the biggest minefields. And look, there were the two parts that needed the most correcting.
That's part of why we needed a giant corrective. We still need correctives in both of those areas.
We're always not there yet, but we've made a lot of progress. And, you know, sometimes when you make an omelet, you break a few eggs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.
Great to see you. Yeah.
No, I'm sorry. But honestly, you you got thrown in but it's for the greater good thanks thanks for the sacrifice yeah well i mean there is some taking one for the team and like i get it why they're mad at you but i do think they will stop being mad at you for a couple of reasons that um one i mean i think people um they love a redemption story.
They will appreciate the honest owning.

Yeah.

If they don't, fuck them.

You can't ever get those people.

You don't even want those people, which is a little tough because a lot of those people are like the mean girls

who run the media.

Sure.

But I think enough people.

And then people just, you were around long enough that people are going to want to see the second act. I don't think your career is over.
No, I mean, who knows? I think I do. Okay.
I'm pretty good at these things. You want to be my agent? No.
You're hired. I don't.
That is a Sisyphean task where the boulder is covered in Vaseline, and I want nothing to do. Well, let them listen to this.
Yeah. And then, you know, like, at a certain point, you know, you can take it for just so long.
You know, I'm not going to tell any specific tales out of school, but I'm in contact with Louis C.K., somebody else who, like, owns up to, yeah, I did some little things that are not cool. I did some things that are not cool, owned it.
And again, how long do we punish somebody like that? And his particular prison is that if he goes to make his case, then it all starts up again. And they're like, it's so undemocratic, un-American to have the attitude of, you can't even make the case.
If you do that, you're wrong. Yeah.
Well, that's the reason why I haven't said anything. Yeah, but now we are.
We're talking about it. But you know what I'm not doing? Is I'm not going through line item by line item, refuting with evidence why anything was bullshit.
Just read that Jamie Jerkiger. I mean, he, Jamie just puts the things that, again, are irrefutable in print.
Yeah. And then if you want to, like, hate, hate.
But, yeah, I just think that there's going to have to be some moment where people say things that are not black and white have to be adjudicated on that basis, just like we do in law. Sure.
And not everything is lifetime banishment.

Again, I think in your case, it will be good because you have going for you that people do actually want to see you.

You still look like a movie star.

And people are starving for movie stars in a lot of ways.

So, and again, like I think at a certain point, everybody goes, maybe we overreacted. You know, I've seen that with so many people, so many scandals, like, oh, yeah, sorry.
We kind of had to. I mean, Al Franken could run for president tomorrow, and I wish he would.
He'd be like a perfect last minute choice. And it would say to the Democratic Party.
It's actually not a bad idea. It's not a bad idea.
It's a great idea. It's kind of a sister soldier moment where somebody steps up and goes, if Al would just step up there and go, you know what? I stepped aside, whatever it was, five years ago, because I lost support.
There was some people who claimed that I was handsy during taking a picture. I said at the time, I respect their opinions, but I never admitted to anything.
He was careful to say that. Well, it was just we were in that fever moment, so he went away.
If he went and said, you know what, my party sometimes goes a little too far. I'm a loyal liberal, and I believe in the things on the left, but sentiments of the left goes way too far and they did with me and I'm back and I'm here to run for the, I mean, he, he was on that path, you know, and he's one of the few guys who could take on Trump with humor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
You know, mocking him, making sure drive him crazy. Absolutely.
And the Democrats need somebody.

And, you know, it would seem crazy the first three days, and then people would be like,

hey, you know what?

This is cool.

I actually really love this idea.

I do too.

See?

We're going to figure everything out.

I like this.

All right.

Well, I wish you the best of luck in all future endeavors, as my high school principal said to me. Did you throw a BM in there? Yeah.
Even when I hear it now, it brings back horrible memories. But I'm so glad we did this.
And I don't know who your old friends are that stuck with you. I'm sure there were some.
I'm sure it's one of those things where you find out who your friends are. Real quick.
Real quick. Yeah.
But I'm sure you have some that were stalwarts. And I would say 99.9% of them were friends that I had before I had any success.
Right. And then you have some success.
You find a whole new swath

of friends. Success goes away.
Lo and behold, weird. So do they.
Right. And that's, that's okay.

That's okay. As long as you understand why they were your friend and why they left,

then it just makes it easier. So a whole new swath of friends, you mean other timeshare salesmen.

That's right. That's right.
Yeah.

We're very tight.

All right.

I actually want to talk to you about timeshares, but we have a minute.

Do you vacation?

Do you have a venture program?

Because I feel that.

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