Kara Swisher | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Hey, everybody. I have to give a big shout out to everyone who bought my new book, What This Comedian Said Will Shock You.
It's officially number one on the New York Times Best Editor list in nonfiction, and it's not too late to jump in. It's a look back at many years of my real-time editorials re-edited and LOL tested.
Get it now wherever you get books. You can argue with me about a million things.
Oh, you know. Except one thing.
I don't know that. Here's the one thing you can't argue about.
Me and what I'm like. Are you surprised you're like, ooh, a liberal lesbian from San Francisco who might, you know.
I wanted to join the military, too, just so you know. Hello.
Let's pretend. Good to meet meet you we just didn't spend the last hour together jousting and arguing one thing though i'm going to tell you about my son there was a there was a uh he was in argentina for the year and they had one of those gaza protests like for gaza right he refused to do it well good and he got he got canceled by some people in his class.
And he said, I have a lot of questions because I think it's a lot more complex. And I'm not going to just sit down.
Good. And so I'm just saying there's a lot more kids like him than you think.
Well, again, numbers. I don't know what the numbers are.
What I'm saying is when you're 22 years old in general, and especially in the later generations, the more recent generations, they just don't know. I mean, trust me, I know this firsthand.
Having been 22. Well, having been 22 and knowing 22-year-olds.
Mm-hmm. Like, there's lots of people in this country who just would never watch a show like Real Time because I'm like speaking Chinese.

I had a kid here, one of the first podcasts we did, one of the first Club Reddams, he's a big TikToker, sweet guy.

I liked him a lot.

And we were talking about, and he's 30.

We were talking about, just as an example, what we were talking about on the show, my last real time, NATO and the ACLU. Did not know what either one of them was.
Yeah. Well, that's.
Okay. That's what we're working with.
So when you have a kid who I'm sure your kid is not in that category. Right.
I'm sure he. Okay.
But I don't think that's more than 20%. I think that's about 20% are aware of like this, the big bad world out there.
And the other ones are just in their God knows what TikTok zone of whatever. Which I also think most people are because I think we lived with an information desert.
Now we have an information flood. And so now it's the same difference, a desert or a flood.
It's the same difference with people. Oh, I thought you said information slut.
Slut. Yes.
Nobody's an information slut like the two of us. The two of us.
You're an information slut. I know you sit there at night.
I think that's a great title. Yeah.
Information Slut, my next book. I was just going to say, you're going to steal that right now.
You can have it. You can have it.
You can have it. No, you can have it.
I want you to have it because I'm not going to do another book. The book I have out now.
I bet John was thrilled to get books out of both of us. It's been 20 years before I refused to write a book for 20 years.
It's so funny because I refused for so long. I refused.
And you know, he was after me. He was after me.
Right. He's good.
That's why he's so good. That's why he's my original editor on my first book.
That's why he's where he is because he... A young guy.
Yeah. But he...

And he did it in a way that was so classy. Exactly.
You know, it wasn't pressure. No, but it was.
Well, yeah. I mean, in a good way, because it made us do something that I bet you you feel the same way.
He's like put personal stuff in it. I did.
So glad I did this book. I'm so glad I did this book.
Me too. I really believe it will stand the test of time.
And so will yours. I really enjoyed yours.
Yeah. And, you know, when you have other platforms like we do, you kind of have to move us very craftily because we don't need it.
Yes, that's right. That's what I told him.
A lot of these people who you see on shows like mine and yours, oh, this is how they live. That's right.
So I got new respect for them doing just two days in New York, and they do way more than that because they've got to sell those books. Yeah.
And if if somebody says, hey, you know, come to my event and we'll sell 250 books. They're like, 250.
It's pathetic, right? We won't go anyone for under 1,000. I said if they don't buy 1,000 books, I won't show up.
Even that. When you think about it.
No, I like 1,000 books and $90,000 and then I'll show up. Less and less people in this country just simply read.

Certainly not a book.

Actually, my sales, triple audio.

Triple sales on audio.

Right.

Triple, because of the podcast audience.

It's crazy.

Probably so will mine, because I read the whole book.

Yeah.

And so, yeah.

But even that, what?

That's really good.

I don't usually drink the darker ones. This is a lighter one here.
Are you having tequila? I have two tequils. God bless you.
Okay, I like that better. This is the celebrity one, the Randy, whatever, ding dong, the husband of Cindy Crawford.
Oh, right. Yeah, Randy, handsome Randy.
And Clooney. Clooney, yeah.
It's not as good as this. Right.
And I call this the Kardashian. Is this the Kardashian? Yeah, because that's Kendall.
Is it? She's a Jew. Yeah, I don't know.
She's a fucking Jew. They've been nice to me, so I keep that.
I just was with Kim Kardashian in Germany. And? She's fine.

No, they're very nice people. I mean, and I think they're- I mean, Chris would rip your face off if she had to.
She would eat it, you know, for lunch. I had her right there.
She was very nice. She's very nice, but I'm just saying, she's a sharp fucking entrepreneur.
Yes. That's all I mean, is she's got all the characteristics of an entrepreneur.
She really is. So is Kim.
So does Kim. Yeah.
And it seems like they're not afraid to be on all the time with that. No.
Like everything is. Yeah.
It doesn't make them bad people. I mean, I'm a capitalist.
Yeah. Does that make me a bad person? I'm a capitalist.
Okay, good. I'm a capitalist.
Even Elizabeth Warren said, I'm a capitalist to my bones. Yeah.
Okay? So, yeah. I think she is.
I mean, these people who, and again, let's not go back to all the kids, but it's just, to me, a perfect example of when you don't teach kids things. Right.
And when they have the combined with the bad attitude of we don't need to know a lot of things because we're just we were given trophies as a child. And so we just know we're exceptional because our parents told us that constantly.

You're fucking exceptional.

That is not true, but I'm going to push back.

But a lot of people, a lot of parents do put that in their kids' minds.

Okay.

This is how you get kids saying things like, communism, maybe we should give that another try. Because they didn't learn about it and how awful and incredibly evil it is.
And because they didn't bother to look in the past because, oh, you tried it before? Yeah, get off my lawn, old man. I'll find out for myself.
It's like, no, you know, us older people, we know things because we live through them. Like, we know about communism.
I don't know firsthand, thank God, because it's one of the most corrosive things that ever happened. I would agree.
Yeah. Yeah, although, again, I had a discussion with my son about this.
He's like, he goes, when people say, we should try communism, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Have you read history? Right. But he's read history.
Good. Yeah.
But parents, not every parent gives their kids like constant, you're fantastic. I was quite hard on my kids.
Not everyone does any. I understand, but I'm just saying, there's less parents you think that do that.
If we cannot speak in general. There's a whole group of idiot parents, and then there's actually really good parents.
What is that you're putting in there? It's something to roofie your drink, and I'm going to turn you back to heterosexuality tonight. You're going to love it, and you're going to thank me for it.
Just like you thank Jonathan Carp, you're going to thank me. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I always need these persistent reminders of why I'm gay. And here we are again.

Why?

What did I do?

No, I'm teasing you.

I'm teasing you.

No, I mean, I understand that completely.

I mean, I understand why women don't want to be around a lot of men.

Right.

Why?

I like men.

I don't have to sleep with them.

I do too.

But like, I'm not sure I would, if I was a woman, I would not have wanted to be around me at 20, 25. I mean, I had some good qualities, sure.
I mean, I must have. I had some loving girlfriends.
But like, until I was even 50, like, I just feel like I didn't have a clue. This is ginseng.
That's what this is. It's not ginseng.
It's ginseng. It's called Jing, but it's not ginseng.
It says it right here. Like I say, it's a bunch of ginseng.
Ginseng. Really? Oh, yeah.
I don't know if I will. Yes, you're drinking ginseng.
190 milligrams of American ginseng root per serving. You're doing the ginseng.
Does that make you, does that get you like a caffeine Yeah, hard. What? Like caffeine? I don't know what ginseng, it's the gin thing.
I don't know. I don't think it had ginseng.
It has tons of it. Do you not read bottles? That's ridiculous.
This is like if we were married. Yeah.
And it was a terrible marriage. But people used to get into terrible marriage.
Because you couldn't even be gay, right? Right, right. That's right.
And then there are things people like about each other and I do like you. I legitimately like you.
I know you do. I really do.
I know you do. It's interesting.
I see past your bluster. I'm not blustering.
No, no. I mean, we both, I mean, we're too alike.
We're WYSIWYG, I think. Well, we're not bullshitters.
Do you know what WYSIWYG means? No. What you see is what you get.
Yeah, exactly. It's a tech term.
We're not bullshitters. I mean, it's great to leaven that with charm.
Mm-hmm. Leaven.
Which, apropos of what I was just saying, is something I don't think I did enough before I was older. Yeah.
You know? I understand why a woman would want to be around me now, because I'm very nice. How are you? Yeah.
But, like, I just feel like when you're young, you're just so insecure're just so insecure and stupid. I'm talking about me.
Not me. I won't broaden it out.
No, probably not. Women mature at a much younger age.
Yeah. Men are, I mean, again, I won't talk for everybody, but come on, I know a lot of guys.
It's everybody. We just immature until very late in life.
It's a shame. Well, you know the old joke.
I like men. I have three sons, as you know.
And I like men because the old joke, you don't have to sleep with them. So lesbians really like men.
I do not know why people don't think lesbians. Why wouldn't we? We don't have to.
They like us. They leave us alone for the most part.
Right. Anyway.
I say in my act, girls like dick.

How do I know this?

Because they're willing to put up with men to get some.

Yeah, I would say maybe they don't as much as you think.

Well, I would say you have that backwards.

Most women, I mean, look.

I would agree.

It doesn't make, okay, so what?

Here's what I agree with.

A lot of women lately have been saying to me,

I think I'm going to become a lesbian.

And I'm like, you like penises.

That's not because they don't like dick.

it's attached to, yes. Yeah, but they would actually like it, you know, in a more appealing package of all sorts.
You know, polite, nice, kind, thought thinking of you and your needs and all the things, you know, and communicative. Communicative.
You know, communicative. I mean, guys today I think have been ruined by the phone.
I would agree. Okay.
I think the phone, more than anything, fucked them up.

Women are communicative.

Why am I saying it wrong? I don't know.

You haven't even started smoking yet.

Communicative creatures.

And the phone is antithetical to that.

It is.

It's just, what's up?

Yeah.

It's also porn.

You know, porn.

There's always something on it.

It pulls people in.

I think porn is really, which has always been the problem. It hasn't always been evil, but it's evil now.
I mean, it's just too rapey. It's been a little evil.
It's been evil for a long time. You think early Playboy was evil? Not early Playboy, but there was some really dark stuff in porn for years.
But that's besides the point. Now it's easily available, and that's what the problem is.
Everything is easily available. It's just...
And on demand. I mean, there was a time when they made actual movies with pubic hair and acting and storylines.
Yeah, really good storylines. Well, I saw a documentary on this.
There was a peak, like somewhere in the 90s, where, and I think, excuse me, it was still on VHS. Right.
But it had become, there was a little renaissance flowering period where they were actually making movies, porn movies, with a million dollar budget, which doesn't sound like a lot, but for a porn movie, it's crazy. Right, that's a lot.
Because people, it was before they had the internet and you could just see clips and stuff. So it was just you saw the movie and you waded through the boring parts about the pizza delivery guy coming over.
And so they actually tried to make them. There was one.
Interesting. I think it's about they were pirates.
You know, they had costumes and the ship. Oh, that's country.
I mean, it wasn't the Johnny Depp movies, but, you know, it was like a million dollars. They're kind of porny themselves, the Johnny Depp movies, right? It's kind of trans and looking good.
Well, pirates are, I think pirates are sexy. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, they very often use the term. Pirates are really gay is what they are.
Don't they use the term pirate frequently to. Heck, they do.
Yes. That's what I was going to say.
And also business, like the corporate raiders. Because obviously, I don't know what the dictionary definition of pirate is, but apparently it refers really to unlawful raiding, right? You know what pirates did? Yes, unlawful raiding and rapists, yeah.
I think what they're... Rapists? Well, you know, I mean, yes, indeed.

But I think they love to use that term, and Apple had it flying over their headquarters at one infinity loop or whatever. Yeah, they had the pirate flag.
So their slogan was, don't do evil or something? No, that was Google. Try to keep them right.
Their performative stuff, correct. So Apple had the pirate flag, and they kind of look at themselves as pirates, even though they're the last thing.
They would flee screaming from a pirate, an actual pirate. Because it's an attempt to make themselves feel that they're rogues.
They all really fear you, don't they? They do. What? They do.
I don't know why. I know why.
Why? Because you say bad things about them. I don't say bad things.
I say truthful things about them, Mr. Truth Teller.
Well, sometimes they're bad. Well, sometimes they are bad.
Sometimes they're good. I say good things when I like them.
Right. So they just don't hear it.
Oh, I've said a lot of bad things about them, too. I mean, and they are in many ways, you know, as bad as any robber baron class.
Well, of course they're not going to like that.

Well, yeah, but it's just the truth.

I think one of the things that drove me crazy,

and you're talking about performative pirating,

for example, which is so performative.

Like you just put on like a basic leather outfit

and do the same shit.

But they had to put on the scarves

and the parrots and the peg legs, et cetera.

Who did this now?

Pirates did this.

Oh, actual pirates. I'm just saying, you didn't have to be like that to be a pirate.
You don't have to dress different, right? I don't think the leg was performative. Okay, fine.
They lost the leg and they had the peg. But nonetheless.
That's a big sacrifice for art. Let's be clear.
Pirates are the sort of drag show of those ages, right, essentially. And so one of the things that tech people like to do is they are very performative.
And as opposed to, say, an investment banker, an investment banker doesn't go to you, Kara, what I really want to do is save the world. And, you know, the pharmaceutical executive, world peace is my goal.
But the tech people insisted on having that, like, I'm here to change the world. One of my first articles for the Wall Street Journal was all these bullshit things.
Such a good point. Yes.
You know, like, we're all equal here, except I have stock that controls everything. We're all, nobody has titles.
We're just in hoodies. We're just this, except the hoodies cost hundreds of dollars.
They were cashmere hoodies. And so it would drive me crazy that they would, the reason the line, my first line of my book is it was capitalism after all, was because that's what it was.
But they insisted on these, don't be evil. Don't be evil.
Why does it have to go to evil to start with? Why can't it be, don't be slightly damaging to young teen girls. Don't be, like they had to go to evil and therefore there was no room, everything in front of it was okay.
Right? And so they're very performative as to their role because they love video games. And they see themselves as ready player one in these video games.
But in general, I mean, they sort of like symbolize a large part of what people don't like about the left these days. They're not left.
This is crap. I know, but they certainly are seen as left, and they vote.
But they aren't. They never were.
They vote left. Not the leaders.
Silicon Valley votes Democrat. They do, but not the leaders, not the people who really count with the money and the means.
They were libertarian light. I would say libertarian light.
But they see themselves and want to present themselves and are regarded as on the left. No, I disagree with you.
They were libertarian light. They are.
I'm talking about how they're perceived. That's different because what they are is tolerant about gay people, tolerant about, you know, they have tolerance that is sort of, but it's all in favor of making more money.
It's like they like gay people because maybe they can make them money. Like one of the things that the right don't get is like, you should like anyone who can make you money.
Like that's the kind of thing. And so they try to pretend it was out of a love of society, but in fact it's a love of money.
Yes, I'm agreeing with you. And that makes them libertarian-like because most of them never expressed a political opinion ever.
Elon Musk, I never knew what his politics was until recently. Right.
Right? I just didn't. I had no idea.
Yes. Someone was like, was he always this right? I'm like, he was nothing.
Right. Bill Gates, nothing.
Mark Zuckerberg, I couldn't tell you what. He never expressed a political opinion.
None of them did, ever. And except for, government, leave me alone.
That they always said. But like Mark Zuckerberg gave $100 million.
To Newark. To Newark.
I mean. Performative.
Okay. I'm agreeing with you.
Why are you fighting with me, honey? I am not fighting with you. Even when I'm agreeing with you.
I'm going to pull this... You're drinking ginseng.
Let's keep that in mind. I'm going to

pull this... I looked it up.
You're drinking

ginseng. I'm going to pull this RV

over. Yeah, okay.
And kick

you out. Because Clarence Thomas and

his wife are in the RV behind us.

Oh, God. I so much

want to be in that RV, like in the closet,

don't you? Like, what's going on with them?

Don't you think they have really good

sex, those two? I'm just

raising the question. Be better.
You know what?

When you get with the nutty one,

Thank you. you? Like, what's going on with them? Don't you think they have really good sex, those two? I'm just raising the question.
He better. You know what? When you get with the nutty one, she better fuck you good.
That's the nutty girl. She must be, yes, there must be something.
Either they're having no sex or it's sick. No, a lot, a lot.
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Hey, I'll be at the David Copperfield Theater at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on June 21st and 22nd. I'll be at the Orpheum Theater in Minneapolis on July 13th, and on July 14th, the Riverside Theater in Milwaukee.
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Do you ever go to strip clubs? Yes, of course. Yeah.
yeah. And what do you think? I end up talking to the strippers a lot.
A lot of them are lesbians, which is interesting, which I thought was interesting. I end up discussing their homes and stuff like that.
I like them. You know what they're like, what their life is like.
Oh, I thought you meant like advising on them. No, no, no.
Yeah, you should buy this house. It's really good real estate.
I give them real estate tips. Well, you could.
I'm always there during CES when I used to go to CES in Vegas and I went to the Spearmint Rhino. You've been there? Yeah, you've been.
Have I ever been there? Yeah. It doesn't ring a bell.
Yes, I've been there. So all the tech guys.
And it's a great club. So all the tech guys.
It's very chill. I'll be honest with you.
Mark Cuban invited me to come. Oh, okay.
So I went with him because he's a lot of fun. And so, and you can't get into those clubs if you're a woman, if you're not with a man.
Do you know that? You have to have a man bring you in. Wow.
What a switcheroo. Because they told me, I asked, they thought it's either an ex-wife coming to be mad at their husband or wife.
Or it's like a feminist coming in to yell at everybody. Is that legal? I'm just telling you.
That's what they'm asking you. I don't know.
I don't know. It sounds like the kind of thing that might not be legal by the whatever.
I don't care. I know, but I'm just wondering the idea that you can exclude someone if they're not with all the gender switching and stuff we do now.
How could you even enforce that? Well, I identify. Yes.
Couldn't you say I identify as a man? No. So in essence, I'm with a man.
I went on a lesbian bachelor party there, and we couldn't get in, and so I had to call a friend of mine I knew was playing poker. He walked us in.
I made him come over. He brought a lot of ones, so that was fun.
But I like strip clubs, okay. I'm fine with them.
But what happens is during CES, there's a lot of tech bros in there. And so I go and say, hey, and it makes them deeply uncomfortable, and I enjoy that.
And they're always going to the back where things are happening in the back. This is an issue that Hamas does not have to worry about.
No, that's correct. What happens in strip clubs.
That is true. But I don't mind them.
I like that. They're fine.
That would be a funny man on the street. What? To go to some place, well, let's hope the war is over soon.
This man on the street in Gaza, like, asking, is there a strip club in town? That's nice. I don't know if there were just.
Oh, Del, that's really sick.

It's not sick. Shocking to you.
I wrote one of the earliest columns about why does Silicon Valley take money from Saudis and those countries because of the way they treat women and everything else. They just have a lot of.
I wrote a lot about them. Like, how can they do can they do this and then sort of cosplay being you know feminists or whatever they're not really feminists but you know what I mean it's my next editorial it's about if you kids really are looking for a cause I got one for you I really do yep Mohamed Bonesaw what is it Mohamed Bonesaw.
What is it? Mohamed Bonesaw.

The MBS.

That's the nickname that I gave him.

Others gave him. Have you met him?

Are you kidding?

I wrote, like, I can't believe these people are investing with these people.

So you wouldn't talk to MBS?

In a place where I felt safe, yes.

Right.

Yes.

Yes, I certainly would.

All right.

Well, there's a city called Bonesaw Village. Yes, no.
I don't know if you know it. I certainly wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia.
No, I wouldn't either. I would not either.
I wouldn't feel safe. I've been there once, and I got into big arguments with people about the hell.
And there are people now saying, you're Islamophobes. No.
Well, you know, phobe means fear. And if you have a legitimate fear, that doesn't make you a phobe.
I would be worried as someone who's been a critical person towards how they treat women and gay people. So I would say that's what I was fearful of.
It's not... Again, we talked about this earlier, the whole group of them, no.
But the leadership, absolutely. Well, actually, sometimes it's the reverse.
I hate to tell you. I know that's even worse.
But there are definitely places in this world. Pakistan comes to mind because I've read many stories about it.
It is the government that's trying to get the people to be more modern. There was a story, I think I'm remembering this correctly, a boy was in Madrasa.
And by the way, Madrasa, you know, not something you really see in other cultures, that kind of school that just teaches one book. And the headmaster was saying something like, you know, raise your hand if you don't believe in the Prophet Muhammad.
And nobody raised their hand, but one kid thought he said, you know, he misinterpreted it. So he raised his hand.
And then, of course, did the normal thing and went home and cut his hand off. Oh, my God.
Is that true? I believe you can. It feels like an internet conspiracy theory.
No, no. Did this, really, you think the world is that sane? No, I don't think it's sane.
I think religion is... I'm with you on that one.
I read this story. I know you got a lot of shit for that.
I'm going to say I'm 95% sure. Can I say a hundred? No.
No. But I'm pretty sure because I remember reading it and it was in a reputable source.
I think religion makes people crazy. It does.
In the extreme. I don't mind faith and people feeling good about things and going to churches.

But I'm just saying the federal government in Islamabad, I think, is often to the left of where the village life is.

Yeah, I would agree.

Okay.

So that's...

We agree.

Are you surprised you're like, oh, a liberal lesbian from San Francisco who might, you know, I wanted to join yeah. Okay.
So that's... We agree.
Are you surprised you're like,

oh, a liberal lesbian from San Francisco who might, you know,

I wanted to join the military too, just so you know.

No, no, no.

Look.

We contain multitudes.

Exactly.

No, no.

I'm always interested in what your exact opinion is going to be

because it's like, I feel like, again, we're kind of similar this way. You don't have to suss it out.
And I don't want to suss it out. Just tell me what you think.
Maybe I'll agree, maybe I won't. But I don't want to have a lot of lateral movement where I'm like, there are people in this world who I really like them, but they just have the kind of personality where they're too agreeable.
You know, they just never want to, they're non-confrontational. So it's like, do you really think that? Because I just said the reverse five minutes ago when you were there, you know? Well, they could be secretly seething inside.
I think a lot of people, although now I do think that people, I do think online has jumped offline now a lot more. People are seeing everything they think in their fucking heads.
And sometimes I'm like, maybe you shouldn't say it. Maybe you should, you know, put down the Twitter.
There's so many, like, many couple years ago, there was a reporter who was on Twitter and was responding to people. And I wrote them finally.
I said, you're responding to bots that are trying to upset you. You need to put the fucking phone down right now and stop it.
And so I do think a lot of people now have, that has jumped offline. Online has jumped offline now in many ways where people feel they can say whatever they think, or everyone has to have an opinion about everything of which they don't have any expertise in, which drives me crazy, which is problematic.

I think there's a lot of non-expert experts on everything.

And so that sort of drives me crazy.

People just feel they need to produce an opinion about something instead of just saying, you

know what?

I don't know.

Gaza, I really don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Or you got flamed by Bill Burr the other day. What was it? Something.
That was funny. I got what? Flamed by Bill Burr.
Flamed? What do you mean flamed? You know, he was like giving you a hard time for not knowing something. It was very funny.
Well, we were playing. I mean, that, I love that.
That was a great interview. Thank you.
Again, hardly an interview. What that really was and what I love about this show is that it wasn't an interview.
It was like we just naturally fell into this comedy team paradigm where I'm the pompous professor and he's the meathead regular guy. Right.
And it's a great comedic trope. It is.
I mean, it works as a conceit. It is.
And so without planning it, just by being it. It was kind of like Art Carney and Jackie Gleason.
Yes. That's what it felt like.
Yeah, very much. Yeah.
Yeah. And I was happy to play that role.
I mean, it wasn't really me. And that, of course, he's not dumb and a meathead either.
Oh, no. Right.
No. But he is, like, very often bereft of knowledge on things that you and I would take for granted and talk about.
He's not a political person. He doesn't know.
I'm guessing he knows what NATO and the ACLU is, although I'm not sure about the ACLU. Anyway, that was a good show.
And that's okay. That was a good show.
People like that. Oh, good.
Yeah. So you've heard this before.
Heard what? This podcast. I like it, yeah.
Oh, thank you. I like it.
Isn't it funny that we could like do. I was worried about the weed, but I'm good.
Do yours. Mm-hmm.
And then do. It's so different.
Yeah. And it just shows that we're mature people who have different sides.

That's correct.

And, like, I mean, not to make too big a thing of it,

but it is sort of what we were talking about on your show

about what America has to do to repair itself is, like,

you can be those other two people.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And then you can be these people.

Right.

I mean, I think that's hard.

That's what America has to do.

One of the things that was interesting is when I was going

I'm not going to talk to people who are... The fact that we're not able to talk to people we've decided to make lists is from fucking ridiculous.
Certain people... I'm not going to Marjorie Taylor Greene's podcast because she's a liar and a crazy person, right? And so that's different.
There's no conversation happening there. There's just performative ranting, essentially.
And I don't think there's anything to be learned from a conversation like that. But people who think I've changed a lot, to me, that's so much more about them.
That's so much more about being locked in your tribal silo where you're comfortable. And anything that disturbs you from there is something that, well, that's changed too much.
Or that's, I can't deal with that. That's not who I'm working to anymore.
You're surprised. Online, I get that a lot, too.
Like, I did this. I was telling you, I was in Germany with Kim Kardashian doing something just there.
And I got something about, like, oh, cool, that's interesting or whatever. Most of it is.
But then there's this sort of, like, how could you speak to her? And then lecturing me on it. Oh, come on.
All the time. And one of the things I always do.
and same thing if i get it from the right or the left what's the bitch i said it's none of your fucking business but what but i don't understand what the problem isn't she bad for women whatever some people are like that others are like she's you know just a terrible i i was sort of perplexed i'm like what do you first of all one what do you care what i do one it's none And I'm sort of of that Woody Guthrie thing, which is mind your own business so you won't be minding mine. Like, it doesn't, and I'm not like, how could you do that? Because they have an idea of me as sort of like this fighter for them, which is interesting.
And I agree, I do that. I do that.
But I don't have to fit into a trope of what, I don't have to go along with everything. Don't have to fit into a trope.
The people who say I've changed, they don't get on that. They have to fit into a trope.
You know how you've changed a little bit? I think you've changed a little bit. Everybody changes a little bit.
Right. But again, did I react to the change? Yes, but I reacted the way I've always reacted to news stories.
Right. You know.
Right. Right.
So, I mean, that to me is not a fundamental change. I think probably the biggest trope, it's like, look, we get that you've been out front with Trump on the Trump stuff, right? You've been way out front.
You were very early about he's not going to give a power. He's a fascist kind of thing.
That was sort of your trope a while ago. Or the assertions you were making, not a trope.
And later when you attack the left, and it's interesting because it also happened when I did an interview with Mark Benioff where he called Facebook, this will make sense, I promise, Facebook a cigarette company. And all these people reacted like class traitor.
Like that's what I felt like. You know what I mean? How could he, as a fellow billionaire, point out something that's glaringly obvious to everyone else? It's addictive.
It's a problem. They don't care about safety.
They care about money, growth over everything. And they are taking responsibility for the damage they do.
That's all he was saying, right? Which was as clear as day. The fact that when I say it, it's like, oh, she's tough on us.
When he said it, he was a class traitor. That's what I got, which I thought was interesting.
And so one of the things that I think is interesting is when you agree to talk to people you disagree with. Like when I did a Liz Cheney interview, same thing.
They're like, how can you talk to her? She likes wars. I'm like, yes, she does.
And so I will talk to her about why she likes wars, right? You know, or whatever. She doesn't like wars.
I know that. You know what I mean.
That's the broad thing is, you know, she gets a lot of, because she's loyal to her dad, and her dad was a problematic figure at best in American history. He is.
He's going to, it's going to be a complicated. But even Iraq, I would, now I was against the Iraq war as many of us were.
But I will concede all these years later, like in 50 years from now, what will people say about that? I'm not saying it will change. I'm saying you couldn't, you don't have to get a feather to knock me over with if it does change.
Because I've seen in my life, I'm old enough, enough things which I thought were one way and then weren't. And just, that's why I said here, I'm not going to lose my nervous system about Trump again, because he absolutely is a horrible threat and he could blow up the world on day one, or he could just sit there and eat cheeseburgers and call into Fox and Friends every day for four years.
He's so unpredictable. I'm just not going to lose it until it happens.
Well, one has the hope that maybe he's just old. He'll just be old.
See, I think the issue with people with you, at least with you, and I'll tell you the issue that tech people have with me, is I'm not a constant fan of them. Who? Tech people, right? Right.
I'm not constantly, even though I do love tech, and that's why the subtitle of my book was a tech love story. I love tech, but I don't love what they've done with the place.
And for some reason that those things can't coexist. And that's a problem.
I think the issue with someone like you is that you, the focus on Biden versus the danger of Trump that they're like, you're focusing on the scones don't taste very good when the house is burning down. I'm just telling you that you know that.
You're aware of that. We've talked about it on the show.
Yeah. Almost everybody who I could think of who I really respect, we're kind of all on the same page here, which is like we lose our credibility if we don't talk about, as if they're not going to notice Biden's old place.
Like I do an old joke. Oh, wow.
Honey, I had never seen that before. You know, Bill Maher makes a good point.
Joe Biden is old. Yeah.
I mean, or whatever it is. I can't say it enough.
I would I said it many times. I would vote for his head in a jar of blue liquid over Donald Trump.
But that doesn't mean that I'm not, first of all, I don't think, I think it's a moot point at this point. He's going to fucking lose.
Who, Biden? Yes. No, you're wrong.
No. I'm going to bet you.
Oh, great. What should we bet? No, nothing.
You win. Can I have ownership of this place? No.
Come on. No.
Ownership. It's not the kind of thing I would.
Can I throw a bitchin' lesbian party here? No. You're not invited if he wins? Not only will I not bet on this premise, you could change my mind on it in the next two minutes.
Right. I'm telling you he's going to win.
Convince me. All right.
There is a, you remember the silent majority with Nixon? Correct. Yes, I do.
There's a silent majority of people who really don't like Donald Trump. And I can't.
I don't think they're that silent. I think they're, no, there's a noisy group, certainly.
And they, and there are elements of, you know, going, going too far, but there is a quiet group of people. And I have a lot of people who are Trump relatives.
And now they're women. They're all women.
There's a lot of men who, and my family, people I talk to, various people who are like, I'm voting for Trump. All the women quietly? No, absolutely not.
And so I think there is that benefit. I think the issue is where the votes are.
Right. And I think that's definitely the worry is if it's in Michigan, if it's in Nevada, if it's in Arizona, Pennsylvania, those issues.
But as a whole, I think people will look at him and say, I just don't want that again. And Biden is the less problematic person who we kind of know how it's going to go.
And we don't want chaos again because people are sick of chaos. That is an absolutely possible scenario.
This is why I would not bet on something like this. Do I think that's absolutely possible to describe? Yes, or it could not be.
And I can't tell the difference. It could go that way.
There's also something called the reverse, the shy Trump voter. Oh, I don't think they're shy anymore.
No, well, you're talking about the people who you see. The shy Trump voter is specifically something else.
The shy Trump voter is the one who's going to vote for Trump, but doesn't want you to know it because it's a little declassé and they don't want it in whatever the company they're in. I mean, any place you went in this town, no one would say they're voting for Trump.
And I'm sure he's going to get some votes. Oh, absolutely.
Oh, I think more than you think here. No, I know.
Especially because of Israel. I think it's because 100%.
And also then on the other side, which is the problem Biden has, he's a reasonable person in an unreasonable age, right? Yes. You know, like he's just like, well, you know, Gaza, there's a lot of really problematic situation there.
At the same time, we need to defend Israel. You can't run up the middle anymore.
Right. You absolutely can't run up the middle.
No, and he needs a sister soldier moment. Sister, oh, like that, oh, for Trump, you mean, or? No, sister soldier was.
No, I remember. It was during Obama.
Clinton, no, Clinton. Clinton, sorry.
Clinton. Obama was the other guy, the reverend, remember? Yeah.
There's always one. Sister Soldier was not a very famous, as I recall, rapper who said that something like, I think there was this right after maybe the Rodney King.

Do you want more ginseng?

Beating.

You need more sexual vitality right now.

Sexual vitality.

Oh, I can say a million things.

Oh, go right ahead. I'm also a lesbian who doesn't mind dick jokes, as you know.
I work with Scott Galloway. Well, you came to the right club random, let me tell you.
But you haven't done any, really. I usually do six or seven by this time with Scott.
Well, next time we're at the Spearmint Rhino together. We should go.
With Cuban and Galloway. What lesbian should we bring? Megan Rapinoe? Let me put it this way.
Anytime I'm in Vegas, I'm always there. So it's really on you guys.
Do you go in the back one? No, no, no. No, no, no.
Yes, yes, yes. Okay.
You can argue with me about a million things. Oh, you know.
Except one thing. I don't know that.
Here's the one thing you can't argue about. Me and what I'm like and what I do.
No, I didn't mean you, but isn't that the room where many people are not? But I'm just saying, lots of things go on in different strip clubs. Yes, I would imagine.
I, for a number of reasons, but including the fact. Cleanliness would be on the top of that list.
That's part of it. And also just like I don't need trouble.
And yes, people could say anything happened if you're like in some dark room. I don't want to.
And I don't want to do that. A strip club used to be somewhat more, when they first had these high-end strip clubs in the 90s, they were a lot classier.
The women wore gowns. There was no lap dance.
You know, they didn't grind on your dick. That's what I think ruined strip clubs.
It made it sleazy. It made me feel bad for the girls.
I felt like the way I feel about football players, you know, like, oh, this is entertaining, but is he getting brain damage right now? Right, right. Well, it's third and ten.
And so they kind of ruined it. And I don't want to participate in that.
I just feel like a strip club is a place you can go, one, it's not too loud, which most places are too loud. Even bars, restaurants can be too loud.
It's quiet. Like the Spearmint Rhino has that great VIP lounge.
There's hardly anybody in there. You can just sit at a bar.
The secret to a strip club is to pretend you're in a regular club. I see.
And anything better that happens is like, oh, my God. All right.
I'm glad we cleared this up. I'm glad we did.
This beautiful naked girl came over and started talking to me. When did that happen down at, you know, P.J.
Hitler's or wherever? P.J. Hitler.
Well, we used to say in New York, there were so many bars called P.J. Yeah, P.J.
Clark. You could name anyone P.J.
So we had P.J. Hitler's was the joke.
That's a good Hitler joke. There's not too many of them.
There's not too many of them. That was a long time ago.
I was just in New York. Yeesh.
Wow. And? Beautiful.
Well, The View, I saw. The View and all of them.
They're smart ladies. I'm sorry.
Oh, no. I loved it.
Another group of people that would murder you and not be a trace of you. They could murder you and not be a trace of you, and you wouldn't know.
That group. No.
Joy Behar did the book reading with me that night. I love her.
Yeah. Whoopi, I love.
I mean, the other ones I had just met, they were nice. Yeah.
We got along. She called me brilliant on the air.
Oh, wow. Sonny did? Yeah.
Oh, good. So that's nice.
And, you know, we saw, well, I think we all got along great you were very well behaved it was nice you're selling them both well behaved and got my point in big time so as long as you can do both but no I didn't pussy out did you like the green room? I thought the food was fantastic. There was no food, as I recall.
Really interesting. I got a lot of really great food.
Food? Oh, yeah. At that hour? Mm-hmm.
I mean, I don't know. You probably weren't paying attention.
I mean, trust me, 11 a.m. I'm not up at 11 a.m.
Yes, that's true. That's what I'm guessing.
The idea that I'm on the air in makeup. I was judging green rooms as I did in my book tour.
Oh, my gosh. That was.
You have a good green room. Yes.
You have an excellent green room. Oh, excellent.
Good swag. And the staff.
How great is my staff? They're very loyal to you. It's interesting.
I found that interesting. Some of them have been there 30 years.
That's correct. They keep telling me that.
And, you know, they keep telling you that. No, I think it's interesting.
No, it is. It is.
No. I mean, a lot of people offer it to me as a compliment.
Like your people like to, yeah, they like to. And look, we are a bit of a family.
I mean, when you're together with people that long, and it really works because, like, am I the boss who, like, claps everybody on the back all the time? No, I'm not. I'm just not.
That's one thing I don't do well. Hey, you did a great job this week.
First of all, I don't see most of the people. Right.
I see the people in the writers meeting. You know, the writers and the few producers and everybody else.
I see them at the Christmas party at the end of the year and I go around and I catch up on them and I want them to know I appreciate them, but I just don't talk to people. You know, I'm just, I'm all business.
You are very shy. People don't really, someone asked me about you.
I said he's quite shy, I would say, if I had a pick. I'm not shy, but when I'm at work, I'm all business.
And I don't have time for that bullshit and it doesn't mean anything to anybody. And by the way, I remember when I had bosses, I liked it more when they weren't.

You don't have to talk to me.

It's always awkward because you're the boss.

So we're not really as relaxed as we'd like to be.

And what if I said the wrong?

So just let's, but be kind.

Don't never yell.

Don't get mad at stupid shit.

You know, yes, once a year we'll catch up on each other.

What do you do after the shows? Depends on the night. Dinner with friends.
I mean, sometimes just stay home. We've taped some club randoms after the show Friday night.
You know, get me while I'm already in makeup. So you just do it.
Well, if somebody is in town, like you're in town now. We wanted to get you now.
I don't know if it was ideal to do it after we did yours, but I'm loving it. But that's it.
Sometimes that's the great thing about podcasting, especially in your house. You can kind of like just do it whenever.
I mean, just turn on the cameras. I built them into the wall for a reason.
We don't even need a cameraman. Right, right.
I know there's cameras everywhere. It's great.
And then we always feel like this is just, I want it to always feel like this would be no different. Than you're sitting around in your house.
I don't think I would. No.
I wouldn't have said anything worse or better to you. Yeah.
didn't answer my question which is interesting you're quite good at that what what do you do in your free time you don't do sports right you don't have family I love basketball oh you play basketball oh yeah I have a court here oh wow oh yeah that's my passion is it well as far as physical activity not pickleball I don't see you I started that I love that you was making fun of it, and I played it once. I was like, oh, I see what they're talking about.
Yeah, it is fun. It's kind of like half-court basketball.
Ping-pong. You took out half the boring part.
They made tennis smaller. Yes, exactly.
It's not so slow. Right, and when you're older, you don't want to run that much.
Yeah, I like pickleball. Yeah, so that's cool.
I mean, I only played it once. But, you know, I mean, one of the great things about being older is that you collect friends.
I mean that in the best sort of way. Over the decades, even, you know, if you have two or three really good friends that you come to know in a decade, you know, when you get to be in your 60s, like, you know a lot of great people.
So, like, there's never enough hours to see all the people I'd like to see and stuff like that. So you just hang, sweet hang.
Well, you know, look, healing. I don't have any free time, so that's why.
I have lots of kids. Healing America is your goal.
I don't have time for women. I have to heal America, Karen.
That's what I'm doing. I'm healing America.
Yeah, that's your job. So your kids, tell me the ages now.
22, 19, 4, and 2. So I'm a straight white man.
I had a second marriage, and that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing.
That's funny. It's true, but it's actually true.
I literally am that guy. Right.
I'm that guy with the two families, the blended family. Another great title.
Yeah. I'm that guy? I'm that guy.
But I like, what's the other one? Tell them what the other one was. Something slut.
Information slut. Information.
I'm going to do them both. And they're going to be big fucking hits.
And you're going to be like, that was my idea. It would not irritate me.
It would give me such joy. Information slut is the single best.
Do you know what what I was going to call one? I shouldn't tell this story, but I'm going to anyway. I think I'm a pretty good parent.
I'm actually really good. My kids are great.
They love each other, which is really nice. I'll bet you are.
They spent a lot of time together during COVID, which was COVID sucked, but that was one of the things as the little kids got to hang with it. I'm sure you're a no-nonsense mom.
I'm a no-nonsense mom. Which is the best kind of...
But I'm still the fun... I'm dad.
I'm a fun dad. That's who I am.
Okay. I'm a fun dad.
But I am a no-nonsense person with them, and I'm pretty strict with them in a lot of ways. And not...
I make them think. I make them...
I challenge their... Like, whenever they say something, I'm like, why did you say that? Do you know that? I didn't do the...
Like, at one point, we were at a... They went to...
The older kids went to private school. The younger kids are going to be going to public school.
But at one of the meetings, they were all the parents, you know, you get in those parent meetings and I hate going to them. I hate them.
And they were like, every kid is unique. Everything, every kid is special.
And so I put my hand up, I go, come on, every kid isn't special. Why are we saying this to them? Because it's not true.
And so they were like, no, every kid is special. I said, every kid is different.
That's sure, absolutely true. I said, every kid is unique.
That is 100% true. But every kid is not special.
And it depends on what the judgment is. Like, is it money? Is it talent? Is it musical talent? Is it acting talent? I said, because some kids are not as good as our kid, and we have to be able to say this to them.
And so, of course, this group of parents was like, and I think all parents are sort of protected with their kids, so I see it. And they're like, that's not true.
And then I started saying, let's stack rank this fucking room here. Let's do that.
I said, because my wife at the time worked for Google. I said, she's the richest.
So she's more special than you when it comes to money, that's for sure, earning. And I'm kind of more special to you in journalism.
And it was kind of interesting. And so I try to raise my kids not feeling that they're not special, but that they're not, they don't get extra for being, for just being.
Like they don't get extra just for doing a good job or they don't get extra. I think that's important.
I've lost my train of thought of this choice. Well, you protesting the word special, it just sounds exactly like something I would do.
Right. That you don't really need to do it.
You could have let it pass. I'm a word person.
And we didn't. It's also a little kitty corner to what Larry David does on Curb Yourself.
It not with politics, but just it's like you could have let that pass. I couldn't.
But you didn't. I mean, that's a lot of what his things were.
I think in the pilot, there's that funny scene at the restaurant where somebody pays for dinner and thanks both of them. And he's like, why is the wife getting thanks? It's like you don't have to mention that.
That is one of my favorite shows. His whole brilliant character is like things that you could have let it pass, but you just can't help stop yourself.
It's literally what in classic literature they would call a tragic flaw. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to get, like I was, we went to see, I was just in Nashville just before this, and last time I was there, I went to Dollywood because I love Dollywood.
Everyone loves it. Who doesn't? You have to.
It's kind of a national situation. I like Dollywood.
She's totally likable. So I went to Dollywood and it's this great place where, like, literally, it was like the gays, the rednecks, the straights, they were all together with the butterflies.
America. Everybody's happy.
But everyone is happy in Dollywood and they like each other in Dollywood. All right.
Well, we're searching for this answer. I'm just telling you, Dollywood is the fucking answer for everything.
So we're in there, but then you leave, and you go to Pigeon Forge, which is now not a small town. It is a big town of a lot of, like, fried dough places.
Pigeon Forge is where she was born, but now it's a town based on Dollywood. Pigeon Forge? That's where she's from.
You need to keep up with the Dolly. What does it mean? Pigeon Forge? That's the name of the town, Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.
I know. What does it mean? I don't know.
Okay. So is it a holler? It was a holler, but now it's a giant strip mall, essentially, of all this stuff.
And my son happens to love cooking, so there was a sign that said, biggest knife store. And we're like, oh, let's get you some cooking knives.
So we pull up, park the car. And the part I didn't see was biggest knife and gun store, right? So we walk in and there, so he's going, he's going to look for some knives and it's like this like gun, like supermarket essentially.
And so I go in and I'm looking around and there's a woman and she's filling up her cart with bullets, just filling them up with bullets, right? Doesn't look like she can afford that many bullets because bullets are not inexpensive, just so you know, filling them up, cart with them. And so I go, I shouldn't do this.
This is what I do all the time. I'm like, why do you need that many bullets? And she's like, it's my right to have that many.
I'm going to use a Southern accent. She had one.
It was my right to own them. I said, I didn't say you shouldn't buy them.
I said, what do you need them for? She goes, well, you're questioning why I want so many bullets. I go, no, I want to know why.
What are you going to shoot with that? Is it like a can? Is it a target? Is it a fake deer? Is it a squirrel? That's a lot of bullets for a squirrel. I was like, why do you need so many? And she started going on about how Antifa was coming for her small town.
I go, I don't think Antifa wants to come to your shitty little town. I don't feel like that's the case.
And I kept arguing with them. I'm like, why do you need that many? Why do you need to pay them? Don't you need that money for other things like your kids or education or things like that? And then I was sort of talking with the gun people.
I'm like, why do you need seven? Like, do you need seven? Like, well, we can have them. I said, I didn't say you couldn't have them.
I'm like, why do you need? And I was doing this and I sort of started to get a crowd and my son was like, let's get the fuck out of here, mom. What are you doing? And I was like, what am I doing? Because they all have guns and you can carry them there, I think.
I believe, I don't know. But nonetheless.
It's amazing. Of course, we hear about guns and stuff like that.
But it is amazing how much if you just do this kind of thing. Like, I should have been in a lot of fights in my life because I am the same way.
And yet, I've never been in one. Me neither.
I just think, like, if people sense that you're real about it and you're not doing it to make fun of them.

Right.

I wasn't.

I wanted to know.

I wanted to know.

I didn't think they needed that many.

They respect balls.

Right, right.

Even if it's not in something that they agree with.

Right.

Well, they were sort of like, do you not like guns?

I said, I like safeguarding ownership.

I think certainly it's in the Constitution.

You should certainly be able to own it.

Well, here's a sentence you'll never hear in America.

What?

If you're going over to the holler, holla. I'm saying black people do not live in the holler.
No. Some do.
It's not true. No.
Really? There were black people in the stern. Yeah, sure.
Lots of people. Maybe they were buying knives.
Maybe they were buying guns. I don't know.
I mean, Appalachia, I think of as very, like I'm often saying to people, well, maybe you're exaggerating. Racism still exists for sure.
Maybe you're exaggerating. But Appalachia seems like the epicenter of where the kind of racism that we thought of as like actual real racism still, unfortunately, I mean, lives on I should say, you know, I mean, my grandparents had, I would call casual racism, and I don't mean to use that.
I know exactly what you mean. You know, just they'd say things and you're like, oh, no, no, no, honey, don't say, but that you would do that about the polls or the, you know, my sister-in-law is Irish and she said she called her the potato, you know, things like that, like, or she's drunk or something like that.
But one of the things that was interesting, my family's from West Virginia, my dad's family. Oh, really? So Appalachia, right? And we went there.
My dad died when I was little. And my aunt was just a very religious, lovely person.
Couldn't be lovelier. Very Jesus-y.
Jesus was every five words. And I respected that.
That was her faith. And we went there, and she gave me a box of stuff from my dad and handed it to me.
And I was looking through it. I was like, oh, wow, it's all these letters that he had and all kinds of things.
And then I found some playbills. Looked down at the playbill.
Blackface. A blackface show, right? A minstrel show.
My dad was in a minstrel show in high school, 1956, Morgantown, West Virginia, right? Or whatever, earlier than that, 52. And I looked at it and I was like, oh my God, wow.
And then I saw the script and I'm like, he was boxcar Willie. And I was like, oh my fucking God, my dad played black face.
I didn't know this about him. Also, it was at the time, remember the governor of Virginia, the Democratic governor, Northam? Yeah.
Was caught in Anyway, so I look at it, and my kids didn't know anything about this really that much. And they go, what is that? And I go, well, it's blackface.
And people would dress up. And they were younger at the time.
And I said, they dressed up, and they, well, why would they do that? I'm like, well, they thought it was funny, and it wasn't really funny, but this is what they did. This is what happened.
And then white people would put on shows like this. And I was trying to explain it to them, like in a very, like, even-handed tone.
And I was like, I don't think it was fair. Now, today, we can't do that.
And it wasn't funny, and it was racist, clearly racist. And then all of a sudden, my aunt came out of the kitchen.
She goes, oh, that was so funny. Everybody loved it.
And I go, okay, everyone didn't love it. And I was trying to help my kids.
And she goes, no, everybody didn't. I said, I bet black people didn't like it in your town.
And she goes, no, everybody didn't. And I said, they didn't say it.
But they didn't like it. Of course.
My guess is they didn't like it. Maybe one did.
But Candace Owen did. But whatever.
No. I'm teasing.
No. So she's like, no, they didn't.
I'm like, oh, they didn't. And so that was it.
I was like, but kids, like, look, today, we got to, that was then. This is now.
We know better. I guess we learn.
We evolve. You don't do that now.
It's disrespectful. It's rude.
And it's just stupid. It's also stupid, just at the very base.
And so later, when we were washing dishes, she, my son goes,, oh my God, I can't believe my grandfather was in blackface. I've been reading about it on the internet now.
This is crazy. And I said, yeah.
And all of a sudden my aunt said, I'm not racist, you know, my aunt never says a crossword. I'm not racist, you know, and very upset about it because she didn't want to be seen as racist because she's a Christian.
And I said, okay. And she goes, well, I'm not.
And I said, probably was a little racist. I said, we're all racist in some fashion.
And it's okay. Like, it's changed.
Things have changed. But you have to realize, you know, what it was.
I've never seen her upset once except that one time. And it was because she thought, I thought she was racist, which was, or my kids did.
And it was a really interesting, I think, I don't like learning moments, but it was sort of like, huh, it was such an insight to a lot of Trump supporters, a lot of people. It was such an insight.
And she's, I would say, a good person. But she just, it was interesting.

I'll finish this last thing.

Have you ever seen the movie Origins?

Ava DuVernay did it.

Didn't get much attention.

Great movie, I have to say.

It was based on Isabel Wilkerson's book called Cast. She was trying to change the idea of how we look at racism as more of a caste system.

It's an amazing book.

It's about castes in India, the caste of racism in this country, and what was the third caste? I'm blanking. Anyway, it was just showing how it's about social levels and stuff, and we should see it through that prism versus just racism.
We can start to heal if we see it as a caste system. Right.
And it was really, it's a really interesting book and somewhat controversial. I interviewed Isabel right after January 6th.
It was a great interview, but then I interviewed Ava DuVernay about it. But at the end of the movie, my favorite part of it was, she lives in this house, the author, and it's about Isabel's life.
And she lives in this house. And there's there's a there's a scene where she she runs into a plumber who's fixing their the basement, which is leaking.
And there's a lot of mold. He's wearing a Trump hat, you know, make America great again hat.
And she doesn't know what to do because here's a black woman with the make. It was really tense.
Like, you're sort of like, oh, no, this is going to be a problem.

So they have a really actually good conversation about his life,

which was she made it about his life and not they didn't get into this trope of who they each were.

You know, liberal black woman, Trump, white guy.

And at the end of the movie, they say something that I thought was really profound,

which was, look, this is the house we live in.

It was built on racism.

It was built on all kinds of injustices, right?

And the bones of the house have problems.

And in her case, it was a framing foundational problem.

So it's been built badly over the years.

Some of it's good.

Some of it's bad.

But there's a lot of bad things.

That's not really what we need to be arguing about anymore. What we should argue about is what we're going to do with it now.
And that was a really interesting, and I thought, okay, that's a way to get people, and you don't excuse what happened. Because I think what's happening in the South about pretending it didn't happen is fucking bullshit.
Let's live in the year we're living in. Right, but still, have to live in the world we're living with, with a knowledge of the world we live in.
Correct, and the year we're living in carries the scars of the past. This past lives on in the present.
Like, history lives on in the moment we're living in. Except that some people are indeed trying to erase it.
Yes. A 100%.
Some people are trying to erase it and some people are trying to exaggerate it. There is a lot...
I'm more against the erasers than the exaggerators. I can take the exaggerators.
Well, there's a lot of weaponization of white... Certainly.
Certainly. Look at that.
You agreed? I didn't even get to the end of the set. Go ahead.
No, no. I'm glad.
Please, cut me off. But I don't know why you have to equalize them because the erasers are the real danger of that.
No, I disagree. I think there's a lot of bad that comes from people weaponizing white guilt, is what I was going to say, because you preach on the one hand, like Joe Biden the other day, that you have to work 10 times as hard, that the world is just so stacked against you, which is not, first of all, it's not true.
It can be somewhat stacked against you and it can help you somewhat to be a person of color. I certainly know this personally, anecdotally from people.
So, and of course there are statistics about it. I mean, I think a third of, was it 2022, a third of white kids applying to college lied and said they were.
About the racial thing. I understand.
They said they were people of color. Okay.
So I'm not saying racism is over or that it's all better to be black. No, but it's a lot more complicated than it used to be.
except that except that the erasure or the banning

of books

I think

is a very different. That is people who have had years.
But erasure, you mean like not teaching black? Black, real history, actual history. And by the way, the way we worked on history.
I think that's mostly a bullshit charge. I mean, I was in that all-white town we talked about before, New Jersey, like in the 1960s.
We learned what slavery was, and we learned it was wrong. That's correct, and that's the way it should be taught.
And it was. I'm saying, this is an all-white town in 1968, and they weren't erasing history.
So why is the Republican Party obsessed with not talking about it anymore? Because part of it is a reaction to what happened. Talking about it too much.
Yes. Part of it is a reaction to the 1619 kind of idea, Kendi and Robin DiAngelo, that racism is everything.
That everything, that's what critical race theory really means. We have to see everything.
And I would agree it is America's biggest, baddest, awfulest sin. There's no close second, but not everything is racism.
That kind of, that's the kind of theme. But you actually think everyone, I think what happens is certain people get outsized attention for this stuff, for some of it, which is nonsense.
It's over the top. And they get, you know, Tom Wolfe wrote about it 100 years ago about, you know, the meeting with the Black Panthers.
Not really 100 kids, if you don't know Tom Wolfe. But Tom Wolfe wrote that wonderful piece, which is great.
Joan Didion did it. Others did it.
Yeah. And those were great to point out the idiocy.
Radical chic. Radical chic.
Yeah. Everyone was right to point that out.
What year was that, we imagine? 60s, 70s. 60s.
70s. 70s, right? I think Joan Didion was 70s, but late 60s, 70s.
Yeah. So it was hard to point it out, but more corrosive.
And as someone who grew up gay in America, I can tell you it's very hard, and you have to do a lot of work, not to be pissed off about it. I'm not, because I felt great about being gay.
But I can tell you, you can see how corrosive it was on so many levels in the way society. And so it takes a much stronger person not to have been affected by it.
And it's really hard. It really is.
And I'm not asking for... No.
I always say there's two ways you can see an issue not clearly.

You can be too far from it.

Racially, I will admit to that.

I'm too far from it.

I'm not black, basically.

So I cannot know what it's like to walk through life like that.

You can also not be seeing things clearly by being too close to something.

That's the fly on the Mona Lisa theory. The fly and the Mona Lisa cannot appreciate it.
What? Well, it's assuming a fly could appreciate great art. In other words, you're too close to it, so you can't see.
If your nose was pressed up against a great painting, you could not. Sure, but let's get to the Mona Lisa.
What do you think? I'm like, eh. I've said the same thing for years.
It's typical, like, sheep thinking. Like, somebody made the Mona Lisa, like, this greatest thing of art, and now every moron in the world makes a trek and takes a picture of it with their cell phones, as if there's not a million pictures of it in the world already.
And then somebody throws puke on it to protest the rainforest. I mean, it's just...
I kind of like those people. I kind of like those people.
Who? The people who throw things on it. Why? Because it's covered up.
Nothing's going to happen. Oh, really? I like people who do things like that.
Don't try it with that Elvis poster. I'm not.
Are you kidding? I will fucking fuck you up. I've been to Tupelo.
I've been to Graceland. Well, that's like beginner Elvis.
Sorry. Oh, you're a big Elvis fan? I'm a huge Elvis fan That explains the hairdo Thank you I love country music Again, I'm a lesbian who you're not going to figure out I wanted to be in the military I got married twice Well, the military, that is not hard to figure out Only gay people like the military and being married Only gay people these days, just so you know Like being in the military We wanted to be to be in the military.
Don't tell me you drive a Subaru. I had a Lesberoo.
Yes, I did. I always got that joke from my writers.
The Lesberoo? Lesbian Subaru. And it was like, I didn't know what they were talking about.
The Lesberoo? You didn't know about the Lesberoo? No. It's called the Lesberoo.
I assume. Now we drive Kias, just so you know.
Hybrid Kias. That's what we're doing now.
Why? What is that? Because they're great, because we have a lot of kids, and we need three rows, and we like the hybrid idea. I also have a Chevy Bolt.
Do most lesbians have kids now? A lot of them. You know why? I told you this on your show.
We're building the militia Etheridge. Did I not tell you this? I don't think I'm being.
So. Yeah.
But when you say lesbian, like... My kids can shoot and be sensitive.
Sorry. Shoot guns and be sensitive.
Yes, most lesbians have kids. Many gay people have kids now.
We have great fucking kids. They're great.
I have to say. But, like, when you say lesbian, to me, that's like an old school term.
Yeah, I know. No, no.
Queer is a new one. But like there is like a lot going on in the LGBT community that like muddies the waters for someone like me on the outside who's like an old school, you know, oh, you have a penis and you use it with women.
What's wrong with you? Everybody has their – We like them too. No, I know.
It muddies it for you. Well, I'm just...
What does that mean? There's so much bisexual and transitioning, but then there's this... No, I just like women.
I'm not quitting on men. I just really never like it.
That's not my thing.

No, I had boyfriends galore.

Like I said, most lesbians had boyfriends.

Yeah.

No, that's not true.

That's not true.

That is not true.

Benny did not. Honey, I'm going to pull this off.

Let me just ask you.

Clarence!

No, let me just tell you.

The next road stop.

We're pulling over.

You're getting the point.

Isn't it confusing these days for people like you? Right? Is that what you're saying? No. But honestly, one, we don't care if you're confused.
Oh, I don't care either. Nobody cares if you're confused.
I'm just asking. Two, what? What is your question? Well, like Andrew Sullivan writes a lot about, like, as an old school heterosexual homosexual man.
Yeah. And he truly is.
He feels like there's stuff, and I'm a little stoned now, so I can't reproduce it exactly, but he feels like a lot of stuff going on with the LGBT community that is like antithetical to what he marched for. And that's wrong? I don't think, why does he care what they want to do? So what if they want to do that? Like, to me, years ago, I was- I think he thinks they're transitioning kids sometimes who are just really gay kids.
I do have facts on that. It's not that many kids.
And there's more kids having, more straight kids having, you know, all kinds of body surgery than there are trans kids. But we're not going, we're not going to have the trans argument here because it's a very complex argument.
Here's what I think he's saying that I think is a, to me is a problem is one of the great things about being gay is you be who you are. And if you're truly a free speech person and you're truly a be who you are, then just let them fucking call themselves whatever they want.
And some of it's trendy, certainly. Okay, great.
That's what I say. Some of it's trendy.
But some of it's quite real.

Absolutely.

So why make their lives a living fucking hell by not letting them express themselves?

And some of them are going to get over it and some of them aren't.

Well, look, you just said you don't want to have the argument here.

No, but go ahead.

Go ahead.

Okay.

Well, we are an outlier now as Americans. That's correct.

As far as our view of, no, any kid for any reason at any age says they want to switch up. We hide it from the parents.
We double down on it. That does not happen.
It does happen in schools. Sometimes.
Okay. Minor.
And we enable it in every way possible. This is something that all the...
We don't enable it in every way possible. See, this is nonsense.
It's a small group of people that are affected and And we've made it the biggest problem. Like, remember that interview that the governor of West, speaking of West Virginia, had? I think it was with Stephanie Ruhle.
And they passed these laws about, and I'm not getting into the sports thing, because I interviewed both Martina Navratilova, who's against it, and a very famous runner who's for it. And Caitlin.
And all kinds of people. I get that particular argument.
I get that it's difficult. But they had the governor of West Virginia, and they passed a law about trans athletes, right? Very complex and requires a lot of really good people to have cogent arguments and not the crazies to discuss it.
Right. She said, how many people are affected? He didn't know of any.
They're passing laws when they should be passing laws about economy, about jobs, about everything else. This is their fucking obsession, and it's a small thing.
That's one of the issues. The second thing is with Andrew, and he and I have argued about this, is the whole crux of the gay movement is be who you are.
And so if people get to, I was at a party in Silicon Valley where someone said, when marriage was going on, and that was the gay marriage thing, this was Proposition 8, there was all kinds of amishigas around that, about gay marriage. And this venture capitalist, a very famous venture capitalist, said, I don't mind lesbians.
That's always their joke. I love a lesbian.
That's the first joke. And the second part goes, but I don't know.
I don't, I don't, I don't understand this gay man sex thing. That's how they said it in the party.
And everyone was silent because this is an important person. I couldn't do it.
And I went, you know what? If you don't like gay man sex, you should stop having it. Oh, and he said, he goes, what? And I said, you shouldn't have sex you don't like.
I think that's wrong. Right.
And he said, I'm not having gay sex. I said, you just said you don't like gay man sex.
Why did you say that? Are you lying about having gay man sex? You're either lying about having gay man sex or you're having gay man sex you don't like. Either way, you need to stop.
Right. And he's like, that's not what I said.
And then I looked at him and I said, it's none of your fucking business what people do in their bedrooms. It's none of your business.
If they want to fuck men, they can fuck men. If they want to fuck women, they can fuck men.
If they want to call themselves Sylvia and go dancing on weekends, it's none of your fucking business. And that to me is the heart of gayness.
And so if young people are trying different costumes on and off, I don't know why we have to not, we don't let them do it. And let me tell you, as someone who grew up gay, when you couldn't do that, it was toxic.
Fertiveness is toxic. I don't disagree with anything you said.
My issue comes in with medical. Right, certainly.
Because... I do have statistics down here to push back into.
I'm not going to get into any sort of specifics, but I am 68 years old. Yeah.
Nobody gets to be 68 years old without having experienced issues. Mm-hmm.
Let's just leave it at that. Yeah, okay.
Life's a rough road. What does that mean? It means like your health is not going to be perfect from zero to death.
That's correct.

Nobody dies completely healthy.

That's not true.

That's my next book.

I'm writing about that.

If you get shot, you do.

Right.

No, but there's stuff going on that's going to change that.

Well, you're going to degenerate in some ways.

Anyway, I feel great.

Don't ever worry about me, people.

But all I'm saying is medically, I could know in my mind, absolutely, I am not a man. I still wouldn't do anything medically because I know we are not that advanced medically where we can pull that off without serious health repercussions.
I mean, I don't take aspirin. Okay.
I believe we are living not in the future. We're living now, where medicine can't do things like switching out organs without, I'm not saying it doesn't solve some problems sometimes, but medically, you can't look me in the eye and tell me there are not going to be serious health replications down the road for doing anything like that or puberty blockers, making my hormones, which is the very natural part of the body, flow in the opposite direction.
That's your choice. I'm not against you being able to make that choice.
I think you can do anything you want with your body, including doing that. But for me, my choice, and that doesn't make me a bigot.
That just makes me someone who puts my health top of the list. Here's my health.
I love sex, sexuality, but it is under health. Except why the obsession with this small problem or possible that we can figure out.
I'm not obsessed. I know, but I'm just saying the right certainly is.
Because you know why? I'll tell you why. Good politics.
One is good politics. And first of all, they tried with the bathrooms and nobody gave a fuck.
Because most people, like, someone tell them about airplane bathrooms. Because we're all in the same one on those airplanes, right? They didn't work on the bathrooms.
Not at the same time. Sometimes.
No. They're talking about being in the bathroom with a penis.
I've been in lots of bathrooms with men and women. It's not that fucking big a deal, honestly.
Not usually. Find some new problem.
That didn't work. I couldn't agree with that.
That didn't work. Sports tends to work, and now this transitioning thing works.
It is an avenue into attacking gay and lesbian people on the whole. They're coming after marriage.
There's a legitimate side to this. Excuse me.
But they're not concerned about this. Women very reasonably do not want penises in prisons, and they do not want them in the swimming pool, and they do not want them in the locker room.
Women feel that way. I don't know.
Some women do, some women don't. I respect the people who don't want to see the penises.
I don't particularly. What do you think? Oh, I'm sorry.
I thought I was on The View. Have you ever been on The View? I was.
It was great. You should.
Let me just tell you why I love The View. I was on The View.
Can you imagine if you were on The View every day? Can I tell you? They asked me to be guest host this morning, and I couldn't do it because I'm here with you. Baller! Baller.
That's all I'm saying. Thank you.
I love her, and the best thing that ever happened to me on my entire book tour was I was on The View, and I was talking to Sunny, and then Whoopi Killa loved me, and all she said is, you're cool, and then walked away. And I was like, my life is done.
I was talking to Sonny and then whoopee killer with me and all she said is you're cool and then walked away and I was like my life is done I'm gonna say that I'm done I talked to her a long time after the show it was so great to reconnect I hadn't seen her in a long she's the best she's fucking cool she's iconic she is everything I mean she can do whatever she wants and she's doing whatever she wants I mean she doesn't lives in Italy oh she, she does? Yeah. She told me that.
How? She's on my view every morning. I thought the same thing.
Obviously, she has time off. Yeah.
You know, but that's what she considers herself to live. And I think that's a really cool place to live.
I couldn't do it myself. I'm kind of hooked on this crazy mixed up country.
You have this compound here. I'm not moving anywhere.
You have a compound. I'm going to die right here in this chair.
In the compound. Maybe tonight.
I wish I had a compound. I don't have a compound.
Compounds are great. I should have a compound.
I have children. Oh, no, they're so great.
I can have them all live there with me. Right.
I mean, when I think of like how when I was 18 to 28, I had no money. The worst sort of slummy apartments in college and in New York, always with roommates I didn't like, never had a bathtub I could get into, smelling other people's shit in the bathroom.
It's like it really makes it worthwhile. It makes worthwhile to have your comfort.
It just makes it nicer. Well, you can't live in stocks, they say.
You can live in your houses. You can't live in stocks.
You know, that's why a lot of people buy houses. Can I ask you a question? Do you like, and I know we have to go soon, but do you regret not having children? Fuck no.
There is. There was one thing.
I'm having them all for you, me and Elon Musk, but. There was one thing in my life that has been steady from the beginning

to the end, and that is when I was a kid,

I didn't like kids, and I

still don't. That is just

steady. Other things up and

down, that one, right

across the board. Now, I don't hate them.

I hate babies.

Babies are gross. I've

never touched a baby except once in a

sketch when I had to. They have nothing to offer.
I understand. You need to go through that phase to become a human.
Yeah, they're a little in need. But, like, I can talk to a kid.
Kids actually like to talk to me. We want to do a club random where I talk to kids.
Oh, that sounds like illegal. It would be fun.
Illegal. I want to do a club.
I'm going to have a carousel. Yeah, me smoking my pot.
That would be lollipops. With five-year-olds.
Yeah, that's going to end well. No, we're never going to be able to do it.
It's going to be the next court case. I think it would be fun to talk to kids, because I talk to them probably the way you do.
Yeah. I don't talk to them like I'm an adult talking to a child.
I just talk to them like we talk to everybody. They're my parents.
We just say what we think. And kids do that.
So we're kind of on the same level. Kind of the secret to, I feel like, preserving yourself and your sanity and feeling youthful even as you get older is keeping that quality, that childlike, not childish, but childlike quality of, you know, as Richard Pryor used to say, if a kid says you're ugly, you're ugly.
True. It's childlike, but not childish.
One of the things I talk about is the childishness of, like, the tech people. They're childish.
They like to say they're childlike, but they're childish. And a bad child at that.
Yeah. Like, I mean, the thing you were talking about, performative before, like, who's the duty bank, Sam? Sam Bankman-Free with his hair.
The unmade bed. I call him the unmade bed.
All I had to do was go like this, and you know what I was saying. Yeah, I know.
You know, he's a mess. Yeah.
Put on a shirt. Yeah.
Put on a clean shirt. Now we're on the newlywed game, and I have to make you think, he's a mess.
He's in jail now. We would win.
Oh, God. All my liberal friends are going to be like, ugh, you're getting along with Bill Maher.
Jesus, Kara. See, that's what I hate about America.
You do. You hate it.
I hate when people, like I'm friends with Ann Coulter. It's like, I hate that people, I hate that you like somebody.
Fuck you. Fuck off.
You want to unfriend me? Good luck. Goodbye.
Don't need people like that. My move is not goodbye.
My move is not goodbye. Goodbye to people who don't want to.
Just like, well, then you don't have to like them. Just like I said to that veteran, don't fuck a man.
They're the ones who were starting it. They hate that I like somebody.
I mean, that's kind of what you just said, is that your friends are going to not like it. Yeah, but I won't go fuck you.
I'll be like, okay. Okay.
Yeah, but it's just a bad attitude. That's my answer to everything.
It's just a bad fucking attitude. I don't care.
It bothers me. I don't care.
I don't care. My whole attitude towards life now is, I'm not as old as you, for example, but I am 62.
I'm 61. A lot of my life is now, okay.
Like, you know, it's sort of like that. Yeah.
Whatever.

Yeah.

You do that.

I think you've got to have a little both.

I mean, I'm certainly certain, certainly have the Irish in me still, that kind of like. That mad.

But I also feel like I have mellowed, and that's nice, too.

I mean, it is great.

I think that, you know, people have bucket lists.

I think even better than a bucket list, for me, anyway. A bucket list is, you know, things you want to do.
No, I know what that is. I know, I'm telling everybody.
Okay. That the list of things that I used to do that I no longer have to do.
Right. Or don't, you know, basically have to do.
Yeah. Like Christmas shopping.
Yeah. Like nobody's going to, you know, sorry.
I made a vow never to read anything about Henry Kissinger again. Yeah.
It's like it's taking up mind space. I don't like him.
Sure. On the whole, China thing, okay.
But otherwise, no, not so much. That's the kind of stuff.
But what is on your bucket list right now? Nothing. I'm saying I don't care about the bucket list.
I care about the list of things I no longer want to do that I just want to squeeze out of my life. And I've been very successful, I think, at doing that.
I feel like I very rarely do things I don't want to do. These last two days on a bookstore in New York, an exception.
You did that. I know.
You did look vaguely uncomfortable in every interview. Oh, I did not.
I did fantastic in every style. You did.
You did this. You had this long, like, 10-yard stare.
I so didn't. You did.
You did. You did well.
That's different than... But every now and then you could see it in your eyes.
This is what Sam Harris calls leftist mind reading. No, it's not.
I'm not mind reading. I can see your face.
You're like, oh, God, what am I doing here? You know that went through your head. I know how I felt.
Yes. But that's different.
As a performer, you're a clown.

Right.

Okay.

But you can't avoid this. There's no business like show business.
There's no business. A little dance.
A little seltzer down your pants. I get that.
I get that. But I'm telling you, you had looks.
I was watching. I was studying.
Well, I'm getting it again. All right.
Okay. Thank you.
I really, really thought this was fun. I hope you did too.
I did too. And I have a buzz on.

I'm really sorry that your friends are going to not like you for liking me.

That's all right. I don't know.

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