Esai Morales | Club Random

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When you're dead, you need to leave that tea.

Oh, you don't have no.

Never mind.

Is this thing on?

Not sound like a a douchebag who's trying to be smart.

No, you're a douchebag who is smart.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, you're so funny.

My normal, intimate conversation

with an old friend.

Oh, my God.

I need some naps.

I hate you.

I don't hate you.

I just

rushed from my studio.

So

I'm so sorry.

Oh, this is.

This is usually the late one.

And so now,

but he's.

I got my prayers in.

I got my prayers.

We don't even usually do Friday taping, but I just wanted to see you so bad.

It's brilliant.

You look the same.

Oh, thanks.

A little grayer, but hey.

We wear it well.

No, you really aged well.

I mean, it's amazing when you get up into these.

Can you just say that on the air?

We are.

I'm kidding.

No, we're not.

Yeah, we are.

I was teasing you.

But really, I mean, when you get into like over 50, people age very differently.

Really.

I mean, some people look 112 and some people look

amazing, like as good as you can look.

You, I don't know, you must eat well.

But you always were very

health conscious.

And that's the thing.

In my 30s, I did a photo shoot.

And I wasn't as conscious as I should have been.

And

it didn't go well.

And I looked bloated.

I looked like I was in my 50s.

And I was like, okay,

this is not bode well for a career, you know, unless you're going to play that guy for the rest of your life.

That doesn't sound like you.

So I got into, no,

I got serious about like raw foods, you know, like health.

Like there's something called the natural hygiene diet, which is like, you know, things meant for the human being and less processed.

When I used to hang around with you a lot, we were both bachelors.

Of course, you grew up.

I did not.

Believe me, I wouldn't go that far, but okay.

I'm still working on it.

Oh, good.

But, you know, we were out, and when you're out, you drink.

But we were young.

Our body could handle it.

And we did.

It's not my friend now, but I did agree.

I did say, you know, because it's you, I will, I will do tequila with you.

Oh, great.

Tequila.

I just had some.

Yeah.

Here.

I'm just going to catch up.

Yeah.

You should.

You should.

You have a great year.

I

saw your movie, the biggest movie ever, I guess, of all time.

Action film in the world.

The biggest action film in the world.

The biggest.

Well, isn't the Mission Impossible franchise the biggest?

Probably.

Can't be.

I mean, I can't imagine if you added them all together, anything ever made more money than that.

And you're a great bad guy, Isa.

I got to say,

for somebody who I know is not a bad guy.

Don't worry.

I remember my bad reputation.

I found you very convincing.

Yes, yo, totally.

I found you very convincing

as an evil prick

who was going to destroy the world.

And,

you know, that's quite a feather in your cap because, you know, Rocky does not work without Mr.

T.

You have to have the,

you know,

you have to have the mountain to climb.

Well, you have to have the adversary who is equal to the hero.

Formidable enough.

I mean, the original version of that is, of course, paradise lost.

God has to fight the devil.

I mean, as an atheist, I always said, if he's God and he's all-powerful, I don't see why this is an issue.

I don't see why it's, I mean, can't he just eliminate the devil?

I mean, plainly, he's not all-powerful then.

I don't think it's that.

And so funny because we've been talking.

But isn't that the truth?

But yes and no, because you have to think about the duality of nature, yin and yang, you know, it takes one to define the other, oftentimes.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, but from a purely religion standpoint, if you're

many religions believe in the devil, yes, some sort of devil.

Yes, and the adversary, but God is always all-powerful.

But

explain that to me, how God can be all-powerful and still not be able to bring this guy down in the 14th round.

I think that the

game isn't over, number one.

The game isn't over.

Yeah, it isn't over.

Oh, I see.

Things are still playing.

I'm a person of faith, but I believe so much that it doesn't offend me when people don't.

As a matter of fact, I respect an honest atheist a lot more than a full of it.

So you think there is a devil?

I think that there is.

I don't know if it's a person, but I think that there's malevolence.

But it might be James Cordon.

No, I'm kidding.

That's so funny.

I met him.

He's a very sweet guy, you know.

But the devil, then again, doesn't act, you know, like the devil all the time, right?

I mean, that's the key.

Well, that's the key about the devil.

And, you know, I'm kidding about James.

I mean, we had a little thing, but I don't have any animosity.

Nah.

But he would never be the devil.

The devil's hot.

The devil, I mean, you could be the devil.

The devil's like you because the devil has to be like super.

like baller.

I mean, he's he's like shaft.

Angel's life.

If you think about it, he's the bad dick that all the chicks want, you know, and he.

Why?

Because he has to, because

that's where his power comes from.

He's a seducer.

He can't be a seducer.

I think the key is power, what you just said.

I think nowadays,

financial security is a big thing, you know.

And it's still secure.

Always.

That's the modern version of creating a nest, creating a safe

woman.

But then men want to feel safe to do what, though?

To then stop worrying about the other guy.

Men want to be safe to be vulnerable, too.

And that's where it gets tricky because I'll say.

Safe to be vulnerable?

Yeah, I think.

I think some, not all.

I don't know what that means.

Well, because think about it.

You know, you don't want to come home to somebody else you got to fight with and argue and like have power.

Oh, no.

You want to come home

and be nurtured, you know,

to be kind of like what they call us oftentimes.

We're little boys to them, right?

I mean, no matter what it is, you can be as manly as you want, but they view us as a little boy, especially if

you're vulnerable at all.

Well, if they do, and that is a very prevalent thing,

absolutely.

If you look at the way men are portrayed, certainly in American culture.

Post-Homer Simpson, dude.

Post-Love and Marriage, you know, post-90s, men are dorks, basically.

Dorks, exactly.

They are the fourth child.

If she has three kids.

But I think that's not by accident.

That's by accident.

And I don't think it's not by accident.

First of all, it gets laughs.

Yeah.

You know, it's a tired joke, but it's still.

It's a tired joke.

But on the sitcom, it's always head up his ass, dad.

And it's part of the pandering to, look, I mean, everything has a reaction for too long.

We were horrible to women.

There's going to be a reaction.

And part of that reaction was, let's all pretend women are perfect and men are completely awful.

We're always toxic.

That pendulum is.

Exactly.

The pendulum never stops in the middle.

So it's part of that.

Yes.

I used to do a whole bit about

daytime

shows were always what I called making women nod.

Like you have to be saying something on Oprah or one of those shows where women are going.

You know who is the master of that, who I miss, but got canceled?

Phil Donahue.

Phil could make women nod.

Phil Donahue was the sensitive guy, but he always had a sense of fairness, and that came to Biden back in the butt.

Another guy who could not play the devil, because he's not sexy.

I mean, it's nice.

I'm sure women like that when a guy makes them nod, but he doesn't, that doesn't, that's not making them come.

Making them nod and making them come are two very different things.

In fact, if you're nodding when you're coming, that guy is not doing it right.

I don't know how to react now because I got a 14-year-old daughter now.

Everything is like, oh, God.

Why shouldn't you watch this?

Isai, you're making me feel so old.

You were the guy I was out drinking at the clubs with, and now you have a 14-year-old?

A 14-year-old taller than me, and like, you know,

growing up.

How long have you been married?

I'm not.

That's what I love about you, Esai.

Ah, perfect answer.

You're not.

Not a god.

I mean, no, no.

Why would you be?

I'm the devil.

Here's the thing.

I don't think you have to go through the

traditional route

to take care of your family and to be dedicated to them and to make sure that the two most important, you know, or

two women are you you unmarried to the same person

i you know again this is something i you know we we need to hold another podcast okay then let's just leave that vague but i am i am good let's all be vague i want to be vague

no no no no you know what don't throw down because i don't want to throw down let's just let's just say we're both happy but we want to but we want to be we're interesting we're two unmarried doubles that's it that's all we are i just know that i don't don't need

a religious figure or a state to sanctify my union.

That's funny when you ask, when you say that, because when people say to me, as they have over the years, why didn't you ever get married?

Like, you know, it's like a disease, like I got the this is us

fucking fungal infection and I'm a crazy zombie.

Why didn't you ever get married?

I always say, why would I invite the federal and state government into my love life?

My love life?

And the thing that is more mercurial than anything in our existence.

I'm going to try to quantify that and governmentify that.

I don't think so.

It's bad business to, and one thing, by the way, for whoever is the main earner.

It's just bad business.

And the most unromantic thing to do is to ask somebody, by the way, in case we

do this, would you sign this piece of paper?

Right.

And they look at you like you pieceish.

You know what I mean?

Like, like, you really.

Anytime you're asking a woman to sign a piece of paper you're not making them nod or come

nothing is they may not come back they're not come exactly that is just not a good

but but here's the thing

nothing

will stop me from learning or loving

and my motto in life is learn to love and love to learn do you know you made that up kind of sounds like it had to be on somebody basic no but it sounds like it had to be on some t-shirt at Venice Ball.

No, but somebody told me once,

what advice to give to kids, you know, or people, you know, and I'm thinking, what's the most basic thing?

Learn to love and love to learn.

And I think that's the problem we have today.

I've been telling kids the wrong advice.

I'm always telling them, stay out of school and get into drugs.

Is that wrong?

You know what?

If you think about medicinal mushrooms, it is amazing that it heals the brain and it actually helps repair and

like regrow brain neural pathways that we didn't have before so mushrooms and certain psychedelic drugs i think are illegal because they grow consciousness but it's how you use them it's like fire fire could burn or it could heal it could you know warm it could cook water could drown you or it could save your life so I believe in the nuance of things.

I do, I'm an advocate of weed, but I don't smoke anymore because I don't know.

I mean, and you're a big medical researcher.

Of the things I remember about you from when we saw each other a lot: one,

fun guy to be out with, two,

fun basketball.

We've played here.

And I'm not a baller like you.

You're a great baller.

You're a real baller, but I'm a hustler, is what I am.

A great passer.

Thank you.

And the third thing.

I learned that in the clubs.

And

the

third thing was you are interested in science and medicine.

I mean,

I remember when you were very, very,

very like, almost Lenny Bruce level obsessed with AIDS.

Yes.

And that they, I mean, I remember you giving me a book, which I still have.

Oh, my God.

A number of copies of.

It was a thin book, but it was like everything you know about AIDS is wrong.

I think it was called.

I mean, this was something that you were very, and I don't know where you are with that now.

I helped fund it.

No, no, but like with like with AIDS, are we still, we're at the time, and this is going back 20 years, right?

This book, wouldn't you say?

More?

Early 90s, late 80s, yeah.

Not

okay.

Early 90s.

I think by the time I was, I don't think I got to know you until I, well, Politically Incorrect went on in 93.

Is that how we met?

I did it like two or three years ago.

Okay.

So, all right.

Well, mid-90s.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

But you know what?

Okay.

You're still alive and you look great.

No, but

well, I didn't get AIDS.

So that was helpful.

But like,

but you were very skeptical of what they were saying about AIDS.

Are they still telling us the not truth about age?

Of course.

Really?

Well, they're still using the same paradigm.

You see, I made friends with a guy.

I was stupid enough to try to make a documentary about this because I was young and I thought I'd tell the world.

Last thing I realized is that it's not very smart to invest money and time

into something that goes against what

the

consensus is supposed to.

And when you piss off the people who think they have the answers, whether it's on the left or the right, I mean, look, I say it a million times, but I think the right is more dangerous, but the left is more obnoxious.

I mean, they're not.

Listen, they've switched places to meet the people.

They do many things.

They've switched places.

Exactly.

It's like the exorcist.

I mean, look at RFK.

He's with the Trump administration now.

And, like, he's.

I love him.

I was going to say, I bet you you're his biggest fan.

And I'm a fan,

but not near where you got where, like, you and Woody Harrelson are, because, like, I just can't go there with all the places I think he goes to.

But on the general, his idea that we're sick basically because of the toxins and the atmosphere and what we eat and what we breathe and all this stuff, and also pharmaceuticals and also,

you know, the pills.

The oil cartels, right?

Yeah, the things that they give kids.

I mean, so many kids, no wonder they're drug addicts of some sort later in life because you started, you made them a drug addict when they were eight years old.

How about when they're born, we put sugar in everything they eat.

Yes.

We feed them in Halloween.

We just, it's like sugar, sugar, sugar, man.

No, I always give a kid Pepsi.

A baby, I'm talking about.

I think you should give baby.

They breastfeed Pepsi, right?

No, seriously.

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Okay, that's what I've come to learn.

Okay, so where, so where are we now with AIDS?

Because certainly people who have it are better off.

I mean, they used to die and now they get, I mean,

whatever they get keeps them alive.

This is a rough thing.

And, you know, I swore to myself I would not go headfirst into the canceling thing.

It's, you know, it's Friday the 13th.

I stupidly agreed to this date.

We've been trying to do this for how long?

And I...

But you don't really believe that matters.

Friday the 13th?

But

I consider.

You see, I believe.

And you're the devil.

Of course you're going to like Friday the 13th.

I believe everything, but I will consider everything.

So in the analogy of you as the devil, like just the fact that you haven't killed Tom Cruise in the first two,

times you have to.

Don't give it away.

Times you died out.

Don't give it away.

Oh, right.

Like, you're wondering who won at the end of Vision Impossible.

Spoiler alert, Tom's a hero.

He's the last great hero.

He's a last great hero.

First day on the set, I said, I don't know anyone who's done what you've done.

That's true.

Have stayed in the top five, if not like 10, whatever.

At 60, 2.

No, no, no.

For 40 years or four decades yes i have to respect his accomplishments the movies are generally very entertaining without the mass appeal without insulting my intelligence like some movies do and it's like i get it you know this is just for the popcorn crowd um no i mean i i met him once very briefly and i just had to tell him i said night and day

one of my favorite movies of all time.

And it was not one of his hits

by his level, by his level, probably made $200 million or something.

But him and Cameron Diaz, it's just like such a delightful, fun, caper movie.

It's, you know, I think...

Vanilla Sky, remember that?

Vanilla Sky, I never understood what the fuck was going on.

It's still a fun ride.

When she takes it.

You know what?

You identified with that so much.

I take it very personally when the movie makes me feel like a fucking idiot.

Okay.

I'm like, okay, I get it.

I'm not the smartest guy in the world.

Do you have to do this to me?

Don't take me to the bottom.

The other one, that

dude who did

Oppenheimer did with the DiCaprio movie,

who did...

Oh, right, right, right.

You know what I'm talking about.

Yes, yes.

most popular like the big name now oh my god this is so bad well i smoked a lot of pot so i i'm oh my god um what's his name yes did batman yes this is like he's the biggest like people watching this oh wow this is like the two stoners.

Dude, the dude's name.

Anyway, I know it when I'm sober.

He's one of the big directors.

And he did that one.

It was a one-word title with Leonardo DiCaprio.

I didn't know what was going on in that one.

And then he did another one a couple of years ago that, like, everything moved backward in time.

And I thought that was bullshit.

Interstellar.

Interstellar.

No, no, no.

No, that's something different.

There's the other one

where the world kind of comes up with DiCaprio.

That was another one.

Yeah.

That's the one I'm talking about.

Yeah.

that's the one.

Didn't understand that one.

That's a big nit hole.

And I know people who did understand it.

And I'm more than happy to say there are people in the world who are, you know, brighter than me.

I don't even know if I want to be them.

Does that make them happier?

I think in a lot of ways that makes them sadder.

I think if you can understand that movie, yeah.

You're probably not.

Chris Nolan.

Chris Nolan.

Yeah.

Christopher Nolan.

Chris are great director.

Tasteful, tasteful.

One of those British, like,

you know, like.

Except when he goes off the reservation and does something that makes me feel like a fucking exception.

Is that the exception?

Yeah.

You see, it's all coming back to us.

If you relax, you chill out a minute, it'll come back to you.

Just when I thought I forgot.

Anyway, sorry.

I go into my owl.

Well,

I did a little movie with Alec Baldwin.

Oh.

And Terrence Howard, who I love, who you've, you know, I'm sure.

I had him here.

Yeah, I love him.

I love him.

I love him.

Him and I, I'd like, anyway, love Terrence Howard.

He's got some interesting out there theories like that.

Yeah, but you know what?

You two would get along.

We do.

But Alec Baldwin and I had an al off or Pacino off where we were both talking like, ooh, wow, if there was half a man, if I was.

That's great.

That is really exciting.

Say a lot to my little friend.

That is a really good Alan Pacino.

Listen, Al's the reason, like when I when I saw him in Dog Day Afternoon in like the 70s, I was like 12, 13 years old.

I saw that thousand yard stare.

And I've said this in interviews, you know, they go,

what made you become an actor?

You know,

what made you become an actor?

Good question.

The point that I decided this is what I wanted to do for a living was looking at his thousand yards stare in Dog Day Afternoon after like he's in too deep.

And it's like, oh, what am I going to do now?

What am I going to do?

And you just, you see this like

this, this could cost me my life.

I'm in a bank.

I'm robbing this.

And then I just felt so much with just a look, a glare, a glance, like he was looking through me.

And I was like, I elbowed my back.

And the plot of that one, if I was.

I said, that's what I'm going to do.

I said, that's what I'm going to do.

Because I was half the man I was.

And I'm sorry, guys.

Just to kill us.

I put to kill us.

I always feel like that's Al's great thing.

It's like he makes ham look good.

Oh, dude.

Nobody better

put some cheese on it.

But he means it.

The thing about Al is he freaking means it.

He's all in.

Right.

And that's what you got to be as an actor.

You know, that's true.

Can't phone it in.

Fuck off.

No, I love him.

I mean, I mean, if you'd only ever did Michael Corleone.

But it's funny, you know, like Michael Corleone, he did, you know, of course it's the roles you get, but he did become sometimes, yes, like your impression,

a little over the top, and we loved it.

But Michael Corleone,

that performance is the exact opposite.

It is so right in here.

Oh, it's so I mean, he is so chilling, measured, measured, and just like

quiet and cold.

He understood right from the beginning, that's what makes this character.

This character does not have to yell.

I think he yells one time at his wife.

Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't the bad guy.

Come on.

Who else?

Come on.

Who pushes off buttons, right?

Come on.

Says a lot.

You're right.

Yeah.

Barzini, I can handle that.

But Kay, you are driving me to the moon.

Maybe, Alice.

But like, you know, when he is threatening Carlo, you know,

Carlo, don't lie to me.

Don't lie to me.

It insults my intelligence, and that makes me very angry.

Now, who approached you?

was it barzini

or what's the other guy see oh i that i know like my name but i'm stumbling but still man look at you but yes it's look at you it's so casting directors take notes up take note it's so right in here and that's what makes it chilling um no it's and that al's performance the whole time i mean he just

He just keeps it right.

But then he did Bobby Deerfield, which was like really underplayed.

And it didn't really, you know what I mean?

Like all of us actually.

Now these are movies that try to go a graceful.

I mean, I know that name, and I don't know if I ever saw it.

Was he a race car driver or something?

Okay.

But Dog Day Afternoon is iconic.

I just want to say to the kids who are like, well, what?

What?

You have to watch Dog Day Afternoon.

Dog Day Afternoon.

He is.

Go to school.

Go to school.

Here's what's very

way ahead of its time.

Everybody in that movie was ridiculously.

Here's where it's really way ahead of its time.

He was robbing a bank to get money for a sex change operation, a sex change operation.

But Krista Rannon, who was just amazing, and the way he held, he closed his thing.

It's like, stop, please, please.

I mean, it was amazing.

Yeah, but like Ned Beatty, that was not Ned Beatty.

Oh, I don't remember.

No, no, Derning, Charles Derning.

Sorry.

I used to confuse him.

The police officer.

Ned Beatty is in deliverance.

Oh, Ned Beatty.

The one who's about to get fucked in the ass by the hillbillies.

Nobody ever forgot that scene, though.

No.

And the guy, the hillbilly, goes, he ain't gotten a hair in his mouth.

He's got purdy lips.

It's chilled us for 50 years.

If you were a

adolescent who saw that that movie and the few others just were my whole childhood, like, how could you not...

Midnight Cowboy.

Oh, Midnight Cowboy.

You know?

John Voigt.

Everybody's talking.

Oh, me.

Oh.

One of the greatest.

Soundtrack.

Nilson, Harry Nielsen.

I mean, I feel like 70s movies earned their reputation.

People often say that was the golden age.

Now there's the old school golden age, but it's almost hard to compare them because I watch old movies a lot.

And you have to watch them with

a knowledge that Things have changed so much that some of this is just going to look ridiculous.

And it's just, you just have to go with it.

People just were super, super different, certainly about issues like race and sex.

So you're just going to have to understand that.

But also, like, the purity level.

I mean, what, and also what passes as realism, they did not make any attempt.

And they did not think you needed to.

If you missed the Times Square.

Well, if you shot a guy in 1945,

you didn't see any sort of realistic death.

It was like, okay, the audience, we get it.

It was noir.

We knew what was going on.

The gun went off and he went down.

Hitchcock, you don't see blood ever.

You have to.

And then it became Tarantino and you saw lots of blood.

Right.

So when you're watching one from the old days like that, you just,

you've got to put yourself in

a different head, which is not that hard to do.

I feel bad.

Not that hard to do.

You fucking idiots who need a

disclaimer before the movie.

Before you watch this movie, we'd like to yell at you for not being as good as people should have been.

It may trigger you.

It has real emotion.

Right.

I feel bad for kids today who are so hooked on the little, like the device screen.

You know?

And that's the thing.

What does your 14-year-old do with it?

Well, I mean.

I don't want to get too personal, but I regret giving her a phone.

You know, it's just like, it's such a mess.

It's so hard to avoid.

And then they look at you on it all day.

I go, yeah, but I'm paying for your bills with this too.

I'm not just like, you know, like,

let's compare algorithms.

But wouldn't you, if you're into science, I'm into like truth, science.

Like, how do I know?

I want to know

what's really going on.

And it gets me in trouble, by the way.

But if you didn't give your 14-year-old a phone, wouldn't she be a pariah, some weird.

And also hating you for not giving her what every other parent gave their kids.

That's part of it.

You don't raise your kids in isolation.

You raise them in a society.

What is it?

It takes a village, I believe.

Yes.

It takes a village and a village can also fuck you up.

There you go.

Because the village has decided that the kids have phones,

which makes you the bad guy.

Yes.

Yes.

You have no idea how hard it is for me to like, I came from like, you know, getting beaten.

Really?

Seriously.

Beaten where?

Like, all over your body.

By who?

By your loving parents.

Oh, by your

your parents beat you?

Oh my God.

It meant they loved you.

Really?

You got to understand this.

And old school culture, they would point to the kids who could stay out all night and do whatever they want and talk back to their parents and go, that kid's going to end up in jail on drugs or, you know, like, you know, a loser.

And they were right most of the time.

If you don't have some sort of boundary.

that they can push up against and go, okay, okay, this ain't okay.

What did they beat you for?

all kinds of things dude i got backhanded but for a reason

usually

disrespect or doing stupid things which you know i'm i'm still prone to we all do stupid things no i don't like what stupid thing do you do oh you you want me to say it here yeah but don't tell anybody right i mean what do you i don't know i don't i've never read one bad word about you put it this way um never one bad word you know and thank god but there are people who don't like me i became friends i tried to do a documentary on AIDS.

I'm going to go back on the AIDS thing.

And I became friends with a guy who won the Nobel Prize for Inventing PCR, Dr.

Carrie Mullis, who's a bona fide genius.

And he did not buy any of Fauci's stuff.

He was just not having it.

And he would challenge him to debates and stuff and just, you know, wouldn't accept it.

And I don't want to talk bad about anyone.

You know, I'm that guy.

I'm like, you know, I like being the bad guy in the movies.

I do everything I can to like make up for that in real life.

I like my demons to work for me, not through me.

And it's taken a lot.

It's another good t-shirt.

But it's taken a lot.

It's a never-ending battle.

I see.

I get it.

When you think you've conquered it,

they let you know.

No, not so fast.

So I met him and he told me brilliant things that years later, I was like, oh my God.

Oh, my God.

Things about the ozone layer and environmentalism and things that I used to go and do PSAs about because as a dutiful liberal actor, you know, you read your script and yeah, you don't want the world to end.

You find out that the world was going to end in the 60s, it was going to end in the 70s, it was going to end in the 80s.

It doesn't mean it won't.

Yeah, but we're not going to end it.

The planet is going to be here.

We may end ourselves.

Oh, you know, George Carlin used to say that, and I thought it was stupid then.

No.

I don't care about the planet being here.

I care about me being able to live on the planet.

Let me give you an idea.

I went on the beach in Puerto Rico where I was locked up, thank goodness, in a condo on a beach.

And a dear friend of mine was able to let me, you know, I rented it from, you know, as my place instead of a hotel.

And there was a beach and at night I would sneak in and swim.

I was going crazy.

I was going crazy being locked up.

And I knew that I needed.

And then when I heard the call, how's I going to get out on a plane to London?

I was like, I have to swim.

I got to get in shape.

They asked me if I could be physical.

And yeah, I can be physical, but you know, you just, so I would swim for hours at night

in off the coast of Puerto Rico.

Seems scary.

Dude, I'm going to tell you.

Oh, I would never do that.

In the ocean at night?

In the ocean at night.

And let me tell you something.

God.

Faith.

Yeah.

God.

I applied a lot of faith.

Let me tell you one of the scariest things that ever happened to me by myself.

And then eventually I made friends with somebody and we'd both watch out for the cops and then go in.

And I had a beard at the time, you know, white beard.

And like when the cops would drink, I put my face in the water so they wouldn't see because they'd flash the lights.

I feel like the ocean at night is a black monster.

There's a million ways to kill me.

And after that, again, it was the desperation of being locked up that I said, I have to swim.

And what I learned.

Gotta swim.

Gotta swim.

But let me tell you something.

What I learned about nature, just two weeks after being locked down, that people weren't in the ocean on the beach all day with their suntan lotions and the boats with the oil, the fish came back.

A lot of fish were back.

And even the plankton, that glue in the, you know,

phosphorescent base.

But when I would move it, I would see tiny little bits of that coming back.

And then I realized, guess what comes back when fish come back?

Predators.

And one night, I felt something huge bump up against my leg.

And I shit you not.

I was like,

I made it back.

I hid it.

What was it?

I don't know.

That's more terrifying.

I don't know.

It could have been a motion.

Why do you think it didn't get you?

Because not everything is hungry.

Sometimes they're just feeling.

But the point is.

Sometimes they're just horny.

You said he bumped up against you.

You know what I mean?

We've all heard that excuse.

You know, and I was in good shape.

No, but the point is that I was, I was like, I could get eaten at night and not in the good way and never be found.

And no one would know.

And you did this why?

Because I knew I was being lied to because I had to rebel against the system.

I had to say my big F you and you're not going to stop me from being in salt water,

swimming for at times.

I mean, I never swam so much in my life and I would tread water and I'd go really deep because as long as you can tread water and not panic,

you catch your breath and I would just pray God.

angels, the universe, whoever it is out there, because I'm religious, but I'm not religious.

You know what I mean?

And people go, I'm spiritual as a fad, but I just know something, somebody out there in here, all around, loves me enough that it's not allowed me to destroy myself.

But what do you say to the person who like gets eaten?

Why didn't the God love him?

You know what I mean?

What about all the people who like have the shitty assistants?

Oh, very good point.

You know, I used to say it about the Trump assassination when people would say, Bill, don't you think that's staged?

I'm like, even moron.

Of course it's not staged.

Among...

But I wondered about that too, though.

Oddly enough, you know, what?

Because you went down and then you come back back and it's all.

Yeah, but okay, a bullet did go because somebody shot there.

Right.

That's my point.

It couldn't have been staged.

And, you know, people say, God saved Trump.

Where was the God for the other guy?

And here's what I will tell you about that.

I do believe life is eternal, that this is just a phase.

Like, what happens to us here is like a gestation period.

Like, you're alive.

before you're born, but you're not technically born.

Loll, let's get into abortion.

No, I'm saying you're alive.

You're evolving.

You know, people think, are you into creation or evil or evolution?

And I'm like, I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Really?

Yeah, I think.

We evolve as people.

Don't you have to evolve?

Well, creationism says the world is 6,000 years old.

That's literal, yeah.

Well, that's creationism.

Yeah, but I believe we were, again, our holy books are ill-preserved records of God-knowing men.

But, you know, this is what George Bush used to say when he was president.

Like, well, he was trying to, it was a big issue.

Should we teach creationism in school?

And he would say, teach evolution and creationism, teach them both.

And I would say, no, stupidity is not another form of knowledge.

It's just a different thing on its own.

And you shouldn't teach both.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want.

I may believe.

I disagree with you.

I think you should teach both.

And eventually.

You don't have one doesn't have to.

Like, we as human beings are extremely contradictory.

Oh, well, of course.

Okay.

So for me, political parties, like, I'm too old for parties now.

I love when you said I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the party left me.

I didn't say that.

Yeah, you did.

I heard you say that.

No, no, no.

I didn't.

What did you say?

I heard you say that.

What you're doing, which is not wrong, is you're conflating what people have said in the past about leaving parties with

the new.

Wait,

I know me better than you know me.

I don't know.

I'm just going to tell you,

you're putting a title on an actual quote on something that somewhat accurately expresses my point of view.

I understand why you said, but I never said that because I never was a Democrat to begin with.

I always like caucus with the Democrats and I generally vote for them.

I think always vote for them.

But I always look at it and like, no, I'm going to actually make up my mind.

They just always are less scary and insane than the Republicans.

But I wait for the day when it evens out.

We're approaching that because they have gotten crazier, and that's a lot of what you're referening.

But I never said I left the party because I wasn't there to begin with.

Well,

very similar.

I'm telling you, you have the general feeling, right?

But not that exact quote, and not that exact feeling because it's more than party.

It's more like left and right.

The language changes.

And I'm sorry, but woke got to be an eye roll.

It wasn't originally, but it got to be an eye roll for every crazy, way too far left, non-commonsensical bullshit.

My favorite term was woke supremacist.

I love that because you made that up?

No, I saw that.

I thought, this is brilliant.

But somebody is a woke supremacist, pretending to be all,

what's the word, tolerant, and they're the most intolerant sometimes.

They really are.

And it's like, want to cancel people at the drop of a hat.

I'm like, that's somebody's living.

Like, relax, you know.

The point I was trying to make was why I've always identified with the Democratic Party, and I still identify as a liberal at heart.

You know, at heart.

I voted for her.

You know what my definition of liberal is?

It's someone who wants to change the status quo for the better.

You liberate for yourselves from

a conservative is someone who wants to conserve what works, what's good.

And I think that's the super woke.

Tell me.

We voted for the same person.

You're just why she lost.

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What?

Knife.

You're saying I put the knife in, right?

No, but it's truth.

I love to put the knife in.

No, but you do, but you know, I haven't always.

You know, I was a huge fan, and then I said something on your show many years ago, and then I never got invited again.

And I've realized maybe I crossed a little line.

No, that's not why.

No, because remember, I...

No, no, no.

It's because the show changed.

We don't have celebrities.

When I first did the show,

is that all I am to you?

No.

That's like an incident.

You're right.

But you know, you're right.

Because you should probably, and I will say to you, and I'm sorry, we should have had you more because you are one of the few celebrities who can like very, very credibly

talk like a non-celebrity.

And I mean that.

I'm sorry to celebrities.

They're lovely people, but thinking ain't their big thing usually.

And you are a true thinker.

We have a line.

So you're right.

But the reason is because we overcompensated when we came off politically incorrect, which was all show business.

I love the concept.

I know, but it was silly.

It was a silly show.

Well, that's why I became

a silver.

But then I was talking about it.

When I did real,

moved to HBO.

Now I'm doing a different show, and I'm trying to stake out a different territory.

And at first, we still kind of were, first of all, we had three panelists, then we moved to two.

And with three, like one of them would be like, oh, we need face name value.

And then it was like the audience

at some point like got it through to my thick skull.

No, we just want a good conversation.

Well, yeah.

And like celebrities are usually fucking idiots.

So we overcompensated and got rid of even some of the ones who are good.

But that was just like an overcompensation.

So that's really good.

That's very kind of you to say.

No, no, but.

But we will do it in the future.

You know, it's hard to do.

Because you're right.

It's hard to say something you really believe in that not everybody knows and not sound like a douchebag who's trying to be smart.

You know, like I did hear another.

No, you're a douchebag who is smart.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, you're so fun.

I love you.

It's so good to see you.

You're a good baller, dude.

You're still playing basketball like you do.

Broke my finger doing it.

No.

Rebound.

Rebound.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Mallet.

You got that mallet?

Mallet finger, yeah.

That's hard.

That's what I mean.

You know your medicine.

Listen,

I have a little secret I won't tell everybody, but you see this?

right here it ripped trying to play basketball going for the ball somebody's thigh went right and it never fixed.

So my guitar playing never kind of got to the level it could have gotten to.

But now I'm obsessed with...

You play the guitar too.

Wow.

I'm obsessed with tennis.

It's still a heart throb.

I bet you're still wettening panties out there.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

You know, that's sexist.

I remember once.

Some people say, why just panties?

I remember once I was out.

This must be the 90s.

And I saw you, and I was with a girl who was Puerto Rican.

Oh.

Do you remember this?

And I introduced you.

We just

saw each other.

We were often at the same parties and bullshit because we were bullshit out in the town type.

My God.

You were having fun.

We were having fun at the time when you do that.

And you were like, and I thought, oh, shit.

Super hot.

And somebody's going to try to steal my girl.

And he did not.

You know, it's like you were very respectful.

You like, you were like, you, you like made the connection that, oh, I'm Puerto Rican and it's great that we're both Puerto Rican.

But you weren't like, hey, you're Puerto Rican, too.

Why don't you fuck me?

No, you know what?

It is, I'm an empath.

I feel no, but I've had guys try to do that.

None of them succeeded, but I've had them try and they were never friends again.

And I just, I just remember that.

I'm not a saint.

I, I, I, unfortunately have, um,

you know, the only real problems I've had in my life, unfortunately, have been due to my

inability to

to say, to be saintly when it comes to passion.

And, you know, sometimes you pick the wrong people to trust or to open up with or to take a chance with.

And then you do hear stories about yourself.

Oh, that's not what happened.

But okay,

I let it get to a point where that could be said.

And that's what I realize as I get older.

Like, maybe don't do that.

You know, maybe don't trust so much.

I love humanity.

My whole thing is I love people a little too much sometimes.

And, you know.

All people?

Almost.

I'm sorry.

Listen, I play bad people.

You know what it takes to play bad people credibly?

You have to put yourself in other shoes.

You have to understand the asshole, the villain, the evil, the murderer, the cartel guy.

I look at people and I go, how could you do this to another human being?

No, you are very convincing.

And I have to figure out a way to go, okay, if A was to B is B is to C, then A is C, and all bets are off.

Well, I think there are some people who really don't have, as I would say, a bad bone in their body, but most people do.

And the people who like can't even access that one bad bone, they're not actors.

Because actors,

they've got some bad bones.

I mean, I'm not saying they're bad people, but like in general, Their living is deception.

Yes and no, because I tell people, I know a lot of really good con artists and liars who think well I can lie I can fool I can lie to you and take your money and they think they can be actors and I'm like dude you don't get it

just because you can be a piece of shit as a human being doesn't mean you can respond truthfully under imaginary circumstances I mean that's what people respond to they have to they have to vibe some sort of truth Here's my thing about acting.

I believe like 80% of acting is like anybody could do it.

Like children do it.

Fucking wrestlers do it.

You'd be surprised.

I took some friends.

Wait, wait, wait.

I did it.

I mean, I'm telling you, children.

You did good right there earlier when you were

Pacino Michael.

Like that.

That's like, you know, soap operas and like, you know,

fucking detective work on CBS.

He's a little kid.

Okay, anyone can do that.

But on the top 20%, which is where I put you, yes, that you need a professional for.

There are, you know, the real

important roles, like the bad guy, whatever, those kind of roles,

they'll say this about show business.

It's full of bullshit, but the people who cast know what they're doing.

They generally pick the right people to be the cream of the crop, movie stars and stuff.

I really

now

know that.

You go through the ages, and I don't like, I look at old movies, I think, you know what?

There wasn't somebody better than Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda.

And I look at now and and I'm like, Timothy Chalamay, I don't know him from Adam, but yeah, I get it why he's like, he's very good at his job.

And that's what they're doing.

There are many great actors out there.

You know, people ask me, who's your favorite?

There are too many to choose from right now.

And they're really good.

I just don't know that the material in the studios are backing things that are about human beings anymore.

This is a subject I'm sure you have opinions about that I do because it's in my name, ESAI.

I don't think AI can reproduce.

That was deep.

Well, think about it.

I don't think AI can reproduce Midnight Cowboy.

I'm all over AI.

You know, this is like, we have to be careful.

I'm very obsessed that the robots are taking over.

I really am.

And we're like, we have to make a choice.

We're not even fighting.

We're not fighting.

We're just smartly.

I'm not.

We're not fighting at all.

We're helping.

We're helping.

And it's already too late, but you know, it's okay.

I gave an award at the Time Magazine AI 100, you know, Time Magazine's 100 AI-like edition in Dubai.

What's the AI edition?

Well, it was about 100 most influential AI creatures.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

Time Magazine had a thing in Dubai, an incredible event.

About the people who make AI?

Yeah, the people who are in this.

It's the new, it's the final frontier.

Oh, the frontier is here.

And I came up with a line that I had that I put him in there.

Because, you know, as the guy who is ai powered in mission impossible right if people haven't seen it i mean the bad guy uh it used to be that the bad guy in a movie like that was an entity

that

some bad guy controlled which in a way is you are that bad guy but it's almost like the villain is the entity itself no the villain according to most reviewers that that didn't even mention me Really?

The entity.

Yeah, I was a little like, okay.

Well, Tom Cruise can't fight the entity in a helicopter.

The entity is the entity.

He has to fight you.

Well, you know, but, you know, some people were very kind and some, you know, I don't normally like base a lot of feelings on, you know, one other opinion, but I was like, oh, wow, okay.

Okay.

Maybe someone's not wanting to acknowledge whatever.

I mean, I'm extra sensitive, extra sentient.

You and I are very much

very similar in this way, I think, is that like we both think not wrongly that the press just couldn't, doesn't quite get us and is not especially supportive.

And whatever we have achieved, which has been great for both of us, is in spite of them, not because they helped.

And some people, they help a lot, and that's okay.

You can't have everything in life.

I am not bitter about it.

Like, you can't check every single box.

And I'd rather have the boxes I check and understand that that's one of the sacrifices.

If you're going to actually speak true things and speak your mind, you know, no,

there are going to be a lot lot of influential people who want to hate you, ignore you, or whatever.

And that's okay.

It's a dog eat.

Minimize your impact.

Yeah, it's a dog-eat-dog.

I have a saying I say in tennis that I'm obsessed with

that don't get bitter, get better.

And it's a simple one-letter thing.

You know, it's just like...

Christ, you should open a t-shirt store.

Full of these maxims.

But it's true.

I also have

my R D theory when I talk to

people who want advice.

R ⁇ D research and development?

That's one way to look at it.

Well, isn't that what R and D is?

Yes, but it's also the difference between, I think, success and failure.

You either let the things in your life that chip away at you, that hurt you, that attack you, that, that, you know, your failures either refine you or define you.

Right.

It's one little difference.

Not a good one.

No, but I'm serious.

If you sit there and and accept that you're a loser that you're terrible you're literally they say that there's neuro-linguistic you know you're wiring your brain to no you're right either refine you or define you take your choice man or refinance you

at a good interest rate i'm all in

anyway you're right we

this is so club random you know i love it well there's no gender and there's no agenda here no but i love it and no gender that's how free we are I'm a person who's a- I'm just a human.

Listen.

I don't want you to see me as a male.

I always think.

How do you define?

Anyway,

if I ever had memoirs, if I was ever organized enough to write memoirs, I would call it, but I digress.

That's a great title.

Isn't it?

That's a great title.

Because I do.

I do.

You know,

it's hard for me to stay on one subject.

I mean, this show is apropos of nothing.

I never...

Is this the Seinfeld of podcast?

Is that what you're saying?

What's the show?

Well, first of all,

that was also

never true, not about anything.

It's about them.

It was about, well, it also was about the most

amazingly hard-to-believe coincidences and confluence of events.

That's what made it funny.

Like, you know, the jacket that you saw in the first scene somehow came back in the last scene to put some comedy ironic spin on a situation.

It was supposed to be a show about nothing.

And they said that, but, you know, they get everything wrong.

It could not have been less about nothing.

And what was it about?

It was about being funny.

That was always Larry.

Isn't all the shows, aren't they, comedies all supposed to be nothing?

No, I remember doing sitcoms, and I thought it was a good lesson, but I did my first one in 1984.

It was called Sarah.

I played the office creep, Marty.

And Gina Davis was Sarah.

She was a lawyer.

We were all lawyers in San Francisco.

Bronze.

What an incredible person.

I mean, Gina Davis.

Oh, I loved her.

We got along so great.

She just seems like such a magnanimous human.

You know, again, going back to AI,

they'll never replace the soul or at least, you know, there's something about a soul.

that is

no but undefinable that that's the only thing that we have to get back to to that story about AI, so I see her, I see great artists, they pour their soul out into their work.

Actors who don't do that don't tend to resonate with audiences, in my opinion.

No, of course.

There's no pop stars.

I don't want to mention one, but very, very mega pop star that did all these movies, and I could never buy her ever.

And

desperate to be taken seriously.

And it was just like, I don't know anything about who you, you know, I don't know.

I don't feel your pain.

I don't feel anything.

And I feel like you're faking it, you know, and it's just like, you know,

I gotta say, Israel all those years we hung out, I didn't realize it.

You're a lot deeper than I am.

I mean, I don't, I'm not even saying that facetiously or regrettably.

I'm sorry.

I'm happy with that.

My daughter says, no, it's just true.

No, my daughter says, that's okay.

My daughter's like, bro, it's not that deep.

And I'm like, oh, God.

Is that the kind of conversations conversations you have with your kid no I love my kid but it's hard to get a 14 year old to to talk about anything like is she super woke I mean they most most

no no no no she is a

independent thinker she's really go really quiet about her deepest feelings and maybe she just maybe she has a blessed what do you do for like father daughter time like like what's it what's a thing that we like to go play video games at like you know those the the play

the arcade really

you go to an arcade oh yeah you play video and you like it too i love it it brings me back to childhood you know there was a time where she was terrified of of

um zombies so we couldn't go past the zombie and i was like come on honey come on you can do this it's not real it's not and you know at one point i just had to stop or else borders on abuse you're traumatizing your child go don't make her do that but you know sometimes you gotta like say hey hey

do this and and once you get past it you'll realize your fears are unfounded.

But I gave up on it, and she's okay now.

Age 14,

have they outgrown video games at that moment?

No, so still video games at 14.

I'm just asking.

I'm not saying that.

Dude, video games today aren't the same.

There's like

never played a video game.

I didn't know what they were when they were this time.

I was obsessed with asteroids and like the 80s ones.

I never played Pac-Man.

Oh, my God.

I mean, that's when I was in college, that's what they had, Pac-Man.

But I get it.

And I was not interested in that.

For me, video games is

kind of an analogy to life where you try to get good at something and you just try to improve.

That's life.

But it's a drug.

You know why?

Because you get dope with me.

And every time you get to a certain level.

Gamers.

I mean, that's such a big subculture.

Gamers, huge.

There are some very successful people.

It's so ironic.

They're gamers, but they have no game.

And this is why they're gamers.

See, it's like circular.

They have game with other gamers.

Yeah.

But they don't, but they're not getting laid.

Or maybe, maybe like the big ones are.

I know they have like tournaments where people watch people playing games.

It's crazy.

That's, I mean, and then they expect.

When I was young, I never knew that you could have TV shows about people talking about the sport.

Like ESPN, all these shows that talk about...

And then there was a show that talked about the shows that talked about it.

It's not a sport.

It can't be a sport.

It's a mental sport, I think.

If you're sitting down.

I mean, I will barely allow golf.

You think chess isn't that's a sport.

No, chess.

Chess is not a sport.

It's different.

It is.

It's a different calories.

I've sweat.

I've had sweat playing chess.

It's mental.

Sometimes you burn more calories with your mind.

So you're a chess player.

I was.

I wouldn't compare myself to people that are really good now.

But you played chess.

I mean, I don't even know how to play chess.

Really?

Yeah, what?

No, it's just one of those things.

You seem so like, you see, look, for a comedian,

you are a more intellectual you know it's okay i i don't believe me there's a ton of movies i haven't seen where people like really you haven't seen that yeah no i mean we can't do everything right you can't do everything and why would i do that one i mean chess is amazing because it makes you think steps ahead it's it's strategy but i do crossword puzzles there you go i i'm obsessed with them oh you are and i was i've i love them you know and i knew i made it right when you were in the crossword puzzle like you you were always in there because they needed the letters three Three vowels and a consonant.

E-S-A-I.

And not only that.

I always said I could Leno about that.

He's in it.

I said, Jay,

it's not because they love

the letters.

Not only that, but I thought I made it.

Then I brought myself down because you're in the New York Times crossword puzzle.

I go, yeah.

I go, but aren't they supposed to be hard?

You've really made it when you're in the TV guide one, really.

Like everybody knows your name, you know, but New York Times, you know, it's supposed to be more obscure.

M-A-H-E-R they also use

fairly frequently.

Every time they do it, I've cut it out.

I probably have a folder with like 20 of them.

But I love exercises for the mind, and that forces you to think.

And things like that are probably why you're as a bright person.

Look, none of us here is a...

a bona fide genius, but compared to other folks out there, we give them a run for their money.

We're not the stupidest of the bunch, you know?

You're not.

I mean, show business in general.

I'm sorry.

I can't, in good conscience, sit here and tell you

that show people are generally,

you know, I'm sorry.

Their forte is something different.

It's charisma.

It's good looking.

What my daughter calls riz.

It's talent.

Talent is different than intelligence.

How do you define talent?

Talent is, it's raw.

And it's, you know, Elvis has it and Tom Cruise has it.

And it's like...

Meat is raw.

How do you define talent?

Oh,

I know it when I see it.

It's like,

it's like pornography.

I know it when I see it.

No, it's talent.

It's, you know, you can sing, you can act, you can dance, you can, I don't know.

I mean, we both have, yes, we both have it too.

But like

there are certain levels of it that are just preternatural, like Elvis Bresley, you know, but lots of people like that.

But there are people who say he copied his style off of that guy, Otis something.

Copied.

Everybody copies.

Have you seen that incredible artist before?

It sounds just like him.

Like if you were to bite something.

Everybody in show business steals from who they like or I know.

Okay, it's the Beatles were some of the greatest, but they were the Beatles.

They're the greatest thieves in history.

Yeah, everybody's a thief.

We can't feel bad about that.

Well, very few things are original.

No.

And I would like to say right now that we are standing on land that rightfully belongs to the proud Chumash people.

I feel terrible about it.

But who did they conquer it from, too?

And I will be giving it back on Monday.

No, exactly.

Who did they conquer it from?

Exactly.

It's hard, right?

I'm never sure about it.

I know that 80% of what I think is probably true, 20% of what I pretty much think I'm sure about will change.

So walk carefully.

That's why I think we should all as human beings learn to debate with each other in a civilized way.

Well, and with perspective, one of the stupidest things about wokeness is the absolute, abject ignorance about history and putting things into perspective.

And so they only see

the bad side of America, which is not to be denied and not to be not taught, of course.

But they only see that and they don't realize that

because they don't care about history, they don't think it even happened if they weren't alive for it.

But if you go back,

everybody in history was terrible, horrible, racist,

genocidal, like everything.

Native Americans had slaves.

Of course.

Black people had slaves.

Black people gathered the slaves

to sell them to the slave trade.

I mean, white people were slaves.

I say it many times.

Humans are not good people.

Humans are not good people.

They are good people, but they have been awful too.

We can't just call humans awful all the time, or else we wouldn't have to be aware of it.

No, not all the time.

Not all the time.

How did we get here?

Humans are not awful all the time, but if I had to bet on a random situation and say, will this human,

if it comes down to like eat or be eaten, eat, yes, they would.

Humans are, you know.

Creatures survive.

They survive, exactly.

Can I tell you this much?

And you can't blame them.

Before I went to the middle.

I'm a violent, I'm a radical middle.

I used to get crap from conservatives because I would post things like the massacres of the Taino Indians, of the Black Wall Street, horrible things that happened to people of color.

The Tulsa massacre.

The Tulsa, yeah, dude.

You know,

Rosewood, all kinds of things, horrible things.

Our history is horrible.

And they would say, why are you racebaiting?

And I'm like, I'm not racebaiting.

This was not good.

You know, and I'm just saying,

I just don't want us to forget so that we don't repeat.

I'm not trying to

make white people feel bad.

I'm trying to say, hey, this happened.

Why did this happen?

And can we make sure we never let it happen again?

And then

when I say anything that's not the left narrative,

they're like, what is wrong with you?

Are you one of those?

What are you, a right-wing person?

It's so infuriating.

Here's what, you know, I used to not like certain people on Fox News, and then I grew to understand them.

So I still kind of, it's hard to take some, just hard because of the tone.

I don't watch any cable news.

Jake Tapper.

I like Jake.

But, you know, I grew to respect Tucker Carlson a lot more.

You know?

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I used, he was one of those people that I couldn't take, especially when he debated Jon Stewart and he got like creamed.

You can't take him now.

There were some things that he says that I get it.

Here's my point.

I get my conservative friends and I get my liberal friends.

And I don't like it when my conservatives paint all liberals as libtards and my liberal friends paint all conservatives as fascists.

It's just not the case.

That's not the case.

But Tucker Carlson is a douchebag.

And I can prove it.

Because they have his texts during the 2020 election thing when he was saying privately,

you know, this is the one they were sued about.

Fox News paid something like $787 million

to the Dominion voting people, I think.

I've heard things about that that will make you think twice about that.

So yes, I know where you're going with that.

But, you know,

what I don't like is when the news tells me something that before it's figured out.

When everybody's not that much,

I don't think that's a disputable thing.

Fox News definitely did pay over $700 million

to settle a lawsuit because they were saying that the election wasn't kosher.

And the texts that we have from Tucker Carlson tell us he knows it too, but he was saying it on the air.

There is, I'll give a lot of people a lot of rope, but that is a level I can't go to.

And ask him about that.

I would.

I would love to see it.

But he would never do it because he knows he would be asked about that.

Maybe not.

He also went to Russia and pretended that

Moscow is some place where you or I would like to live.

I went there in 1988.

I went there in 1988.

No bueno.

And as a person of color, Latino, who has lived with under the shadow of our community constantly, you know, with babies crying and gunshots and guitars playing all the time in the background.

Stop it.

Like, I'm like sick of this, right?

I am sensitive to cultures being like...

And so you'd be surprised that Russia may not be the gulag anymore that it was once considered.

That's all.

That's all I have to say about that.

Well, I couldn't disagree more.

You know,

I find your view of Russians, that's very charitable.

And I'm sorry if I'm more of a cynic on that.

I just don't think you should paint anyone with a broad brush.

I think you really ought to.

You owe it to yourself to be a little more...

I mean, as your friend, buddy.

I'm not just a guest.

I like you.

I've always liked you.

We all, whether we want to admit it or not,

we make generalizations about people.

about basically where they're culture where they are culturally from.

And like we can't admit it publicly, but you know, you have them too listen when i was young actor i actually was was going to give myself an arabic name because in the late 70s early listen anthony quinn was mexican he played arabic he was mexican and irish and he played greek so well greek that yeah greek people i use him as an example yes you're right anywhere he went Greek people started breaking plates.

Any restaurant.

He was Mexican.

Dude, I am so proud of that man and my relationship with the Mexican American.

I'm a very proud Puerto Rican, but one of my biggest prides is that the Mexican-American Mexican-American community acknowledges me as their owner.

At least I'm an honorary Chicano.

Absolutely.

Honorary Chicano.

And that's because I don't take their culture

Mexican neighborhood or restaurant.

It must be like the Beatles in 60.

I saw

a grown gangster almost cry with the socks and the shorts

and the Raiders t-shirt.

He says, you're not Mexican?

And it was like...

It was cognitive dissonance, bro.

And I was like, I'm sorry.

Why is there beef between between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans?

All that there isn't.

There's beef between any culture that is next to, you know, like there's the Mexicans that have 60% of all Latino, you know, and then the Puerto Ricans that have like a lot of success for a tiny little island.

We're like the Israel of the Caribbean.

We have a special relationship with the United States, just not as special as Israel, but it's special.

Do you think it should be the 51st state?

That's a really tough one because I have friends on all three sides and I see all three sides.

Three sides is be a state and get, you know, contribute federal, you know, taxes and get federal funds.

Be independent.

We're big boys now, which we weren't supposed to be.

Right.

And make our own deals, you know, grow up in our own, right?

Or

stay like we are, a commonwealth, which is kind of like a welfare state in a sense, because we live off the largesse, but we don't pay federal income tax.

Right.

We, you know, I live there now too.

It's a very, you know, I'm spending as much time as I can.

I'm trying to open a school for underprivileged.

Really?

Yeah.

We were having talk, you know, people like myself who didn't have money to go to class.

I went to performance arts high school.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

I wasn't supposed to announce it yet, but the point is I'm trying to do something to help other people who may have passion for the arts, you know, give their talent because it's not easy.

I'm telling you, you're deeper than me.

But I feel like I'm feeding them to a world that AI is going to make us all obsolete.

Great.

It's like my daughter.

She wants to be a writer.

I was like, oh my God, in the time of AI where

they can copy everything, but now she wants to be a psychiatrist.

I go, that's safe.

Psychiatrists, we're always going to have screwed up people.

AI, like right now, June of 2025, AI can't do what I do.

Not yet.

That's what I'm saying.

That's my question.

It's like, could it even, because you certainly can type in, you you know, do this as Bill Maher would do it, and it will write a scene, you know, or something.

Bill Maher-ish.

Yeah.

I mean,

somebody I know is desperate for me to like voice a

big cartoon movie like The Bad Guy.

I've been told to digitize myself just to copyright your own image before other people steal it.

When you're gone, when you're dead, you need to leave that to, oh, you don't have.

No.

Never mind.

It's this thing.

I don't know.

Kids, I don't believe I'll be ending the old me

after I die.

Your pets will have your estate.

You still have all those dogs.

But we put it into chat GPT, like, what would Bill Maher as a cartoon villain, you know?

And I made some suggestions, and it came out with this character, Smug.

Oh, I was going to say, I was thinking Smarmy Assassin.

And I'm not really smug, but I get why they.

And like, it had like the cartoon version of me.

And it was like, it was a little scary yeah how close it got to something that was actually kind of funny it had my catchphrase you know it was just

you know this thing is a genie let out of the bottle but to what point will robots replace you because how does that benefit them

i was asking this on the panel tonight like there was a guy on it was talking about a future that may be jobless and I was talking to a very good friend of mine who said,

you know, why are you so afraid of the robots and AI eliminating all the jobs?

Because AI is quickly eliminating all the jobs.

I mean, not all, but yes.

Well, very close.

I mean, first the blue-collar jobs went now coding, now they do all that.

Driverless cars, it's going to be all truck drivers.

And I said, okay, you know, I get it.

Why would you want a drudgery kind of job?

Great if we liberate ourselves from that.

But what do people do?

And how do they get money?

How do they buy food if there are no jobs, if AI is doing all the jobs?

Maybe that's why they say that we're being called as a population.

Called.

Yeah.

Meaning they're trying to lower the population slowly but surely.

Who is?

The people who want to stay left running the robots because they don't want the rest of us, believe me.

They don't.

There's, I mean, come on.

For decades now, there's been like a silent war.

I see young kids.

War against who?

Just the human condition.

Well, that's so vague.

What does that mean?

Malthusian, right?

Malthus.

The guy who's 1798.

That's right.

He said that there were too many people in the world.

Do you know that that kind of thing?

Well, he said that, he said, population expands exponentially.

So he did the chart going up, and he was right.

Like, you know, for the first,

I don't know, 10,000 years of humans after the agricultural revolution.

we were still at like, you know, I don't know, 100 million or something.

And then quickly it got to 8 billion.

Like, and then in the last century, it went

all the way up to eight.

And of course, the more people make, the more rabbits fucking make more bunnies.

And so now we're at 8 million.

I don't understand.

John Lennon said something.

To you?

In my dreams.

In a video of me, he says, the world is run by insane people for one of your impressions for your eyes.

He's a scouse, mate.

He's a scouse black.

That's pretty.

But I'm saying, he said something that I tend to agree with.

If you just didn't like most people, you would tend to want to promote the notion that there are too many people in order to make people not care about the wanton deaths.

Well, there's too many people.

And I'll tell you why, because they were saying that same thing in Plato's age.

There were too many people on the planet way back then.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah, I found that out.

I was like, whoa.

There was only like 10 people.

No, that's funny.

But their world was

circumspect.

Right?

Yeah.

Well, you know what?

Athens was a direct democracy.

So they hadn't figured out, well, we could have representatives.

Listen.

So, yes, in a world where your democracy is direct, where everybody votes and they put a pebble, a white or a black pebble, in a pot, and that's how you count the votes, I could see them saying, yeah, we got too many people.

I'm on the 405.

I think there's too many people.

Well, they're definitely.

Do you know what I mean?

When you're in traffic, it seems like too many people.

I believe there are too many people.

But if everybody in the world had a certain amount of space between them we could all fit in a certain part of texas yeah but it's not about how many people it's about resources no i i again i'm gonna tell you this is this is something that i think we've been led to we've been miss mis um miseducated on because

there there the whole scarcity notion is maybe another one of those things that we'll find out later maybe you will that is is being we're already running out of like water we were supposed to be running out of oil along

water, even more basic than oil.

Where's water going?

What do you mean?

Where does it go?

Water?

Well, it goes a lot of it in California to irrigate crops, which we should.

And then where does it go?

It's like carbon.

Oh, and then.

Well, there's a finite amount because it falls from the sky.

Where does it go?

It goes to the ocean where it evaporates again.

We're in this closed loop.

It's not like we're losing water.

It's never coming back.

But enough of it, but more people.

Are you saying there's an infinite infinite amount of people that water on Earth could supplant?

Not a significant amount, but it's a lot less.

Like Elon Musk, you know, like him or hate him, has been talking about population collapse.

Yes, I don't get that.

Look at Japan.

I'm on the other side of that.

There are places

that people are dying more than they're recreating.

And now kids are scared.

Young men and women are not getting together like they used to be.

You know what?

That's true.

Can we do a shot?

I will bless the shot.

A A shot.

I will bless the shot.

My shot days are over, but

I'll pour another one.

Pour me a half a shot.

Okay.

Half a shot because I'm going to show off now.

What do you do?

Show off?

Because I'm not a Jew.

What is that?

I'm Jewish.

I respect it.

You can't.

Says who?

You're not Jewish.

Well, you probably learned that from part.

Agofin.

See, you could play a Jew.

I did in 1989.

Who?

I played a Polish-Jewish-Argentine pimp.

Hello.

Wow.

Zico Borenstein in a movie that never made it to the United States.

Hey, you know, the actor Isaac.

Oscar Isaac.

Brilliant, brilliant guy.

Sorry to say it's Oscar Isaac.

And, yeah.

I should have named myself Esai Isaac or something, right?

You know what?

I always thought he was Jewish because the name sounds so Jewish to me.

I think Guatemalan or something.

No, I saw him on Saturday Night Live.

He hosted.

I'm a big fan.

He's a great artist.

He's a great actor.

I love him.

I love him.

And, you know, working your side of the street, nice guy, nice looking guy, tan.

And he's like, and I was surprised to learn in his monologue.

He said, my real name is, you know, and then he had two.

Oscar Isaac, like Hernandez or something.

Yes, like he had two names, two Hispanic names.

He's a real Latino.

And then he said, you know, of course, they made me.

I'm like, nobody made you.

Let me tell you something.

You shut the fuck up.

Nobody made you.

Listen.

It helps.

Oh, stop it.

listen my middle name is Manuel if I came out as Manny Morales do you think maybe back in that how many people maybe back in the day you sound like a Jewish garment worker Manny Epstein it's just not like I mean Jewish well actors changed their name because it didn't sound like no he was Hispanic

anyway he was John Wayne was marrying whatever you know I thought he was Jewish and when he and when he said on this monologue that he was Hispanic the audience like burst into applause you know as if to say thank god came out thank God you're not white.

He's been saved.

Anything's better than that.

We found out he's Hispanic.

That's awesome.

Dude, I mean,

it's just.

I'm really proud of a lot of actors now that are Latino that are being accepted, embraced.

I mean, Pedro Pascal is like on fire.

You know, everything he does.

It's just amazing.

It's ridiculous to predict.

Beniso del Tara has a movie coming out right now.

It's not an impediment in show business.

It really isn't.

Yes and no.

Now I'm going to let you.

It was when you started.

Let me me give you a little bit of a little bit of a little

bit of

Raul Julia, man.

One of my

biggest heroes.

John Leguizamo?

Let me just say that.

Oh, there was something, but the tequila just knocked, derailed my train of thought.

I did that all the time.

We're putting together a highlight reel of me just saying, what are we talking about?

Now I remember.

Thank you for saying that.

Oh, geez.

But that's

not like they're writing great stuff.

It's it's few and far in between.

The characters

ever the industry

choosers of material.

Yep.

For some reason, I'm still a bad guy more than not.

And I think I could play a good guy, but I think I'm considered boring if I'm a good guy.

I don't know.

You could play anything.

I mean, I saw you.

Thank you.

I saw you in the Anne Rand movie, which, you know, if people don't know Anne Rand kids, you should really like Google this one, Ann A-Y-N

Rand.

And she was this woman in the 50s, wrote a couple of very long novels.

And I guess, and I guess some books of philosophy.

Anyway, she's very influential.

You should Google her because she kind of, depending on your view of it, promulgated this view that society was being held back by the losers

and that just the the winner type people and look there are winners and losers should just be a little more ruthless in how they take control.

And so that's what the fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are really about.

And a lot of people are...

Is that what you thought it was about?

I kind of thought it was her response to communism, the excesses.

Well, communism is, and that's why it has resonance and did, because communism is even worse in the other direction.

Evening things out.

And she's saying life is for the society is for the exceptional, and we shouldn't apologize for it.

Right.

And communism is the exact opposite.

Everybody is equal.

Jordan Peterson says the equality of outcome as a person.

Yes, yes, no.

Communism in the world.

When I was younger, I always felt sympathy for communists and socialists because I thought, okay, if I had to pick an ism, right?

Socialism and capitalism, where am I going to pick?

Capitalism is about capital.

Socialism is about people, I thought, social, right?

I thought, okay, capital can't love you.

People People can.

And I figured, okay, I'm on the side of socialism.

And then as I get older, you know, and opinions change and things, you know, life happens, I realized that

if you try to be fair too much, you can become unfair.

And if you take away people's incentive to strive,

then nobody wants to do good because if you're going to work harder than me and I'm going to get paid the same as you,

then you're not going to work as hard because because after a while, you're going to feel like an idiot.

And that's what I'm saying.

And then I thought to myself, I said, okay, capitalism, communism, you know, it's still cronyism.

No matter where you go, whether it's Cuba or this, Russia, China, if you're part of the CCP or if you're part of the ruling party, you got it good.

But it's worse.

I agree, but I'm saying.

It is always cronyism, but there are levels to it.

And one reason why America was America and the greatest is because we kept cronyism to shoe level, whereas it was just all what communism is.

Can I tell you something?

I used to be terrified of the communists, the Chinese.

I didn't want the social credit score.

I still don't.

I'm still terrified.

And there are people in our society, oligarchs, that want us to follow that because

they want to be on top of a world.

No.

And they like the Chinese model because they keep their people kind of in control.

But at the same time,

listen, listen, listen, listen.

There's more people in the world.

They keep their people very much in control.

Yet.

No substitution.

Yet hang on.

Guess what I'm finding out, okay, that blew my mind.

When they buy a house, they don't have to pay property taxes till they lose it.

It's theirs.

When they

have less people in prison per capita than we do.

We have more people in prison than China has.

It's like...

We are in prison too

with our own, like, like, let's not get it twisted.

Let's always keep some sort of mental thing to realize that we're in our own prisons with with with materialism with drugs

with pleasure, you know, like come on.

We don't take care of our own.

No, we don't.

Okay, but we have veterans on the street, and then we have people that break our laws that they're getting taken care of.

Like that, that you

don't want to live in China.

I'm not saying I want to live in China, but I can't tell you how many friends that love living in Shanghai.

For some reason, it is more modern.

It is more popular.

I don't know.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, no.

If you're okay.

I'm just saying.

Unless you want to speak freely, then you will run afoul of the state.

Unless you want to speak freely.

I don't agree with you.

If you're one of those people who are like, you know what?

I don't even follow politics.

I just want business to be good.

You're good.

You wouldn't like it.

That's not who you are.

I agree with you.

You wouldn't want to live in China.

But I also don't want to live in a world that kids itself as to how free it is.

My biggest complaint with American.

And I don't want to live in a world that kids itself that there aren't actual, serious,

differences.

There's a reason why we like it here.

How many of us have traveled the world at the same time?

I have to say,

I don't want our greatest export to be the illusion of freedom.

Because you're free unless you threaten the pharmaceutical interests, unless you threaten the bankers, unless you threaten the military-industrial complex.

Look what they did to Kennedy.

Tell me a conspiracy theory you don't believe.

Oh, my God.

You know which ones?

Okay.

The whole concept of conspiracy theory to me is brilliant because it's the way a certain agency and others have of hiding the truth in garbage.

So they come up with a lot of garbage so that the truth looks indistinguishable.

There is that, but there also is sometimes just real garbage, right?

They create a lot of it.

But even stuff they haven't created.

Sometimes garbage is garbage.

Absolutely.

Okay, good.

I don't know everything either.

Maybe there was, maybe whatever happened there had a reason for it.

Maybe the people who want to call the Earth have a reason for it that I'm not aware of.

What about the moon landing?

That's another thing.

I'm just, oh no, I'm telling you.

I'm telling you.

We lost the moon.

I'm telling you.

Have you seen the videos that come back of that stuff that looks like a really bad sci-fi?

Tell me why today when we have in our on our cell phones the same computing power that people had in a building at IBM right in the 60s and we go why haven't we been back well we lost the technology do you buy that honestly no nobody says that we don't they said that massive said that nobody says that okay nobody says that what they say is we lost the will and we do and we don't they actually did video i'll show you they did not well whoever said that was just on drugs why did we lose the will we didn't why did we lose the well first of all because i'll i'll tell you why we went to the moon like i don't know 10 times or something, maybe five, I don't know, but we went the first time.

You know, it was like anything in show business.

First one was great.

First one got a lot of hits.

And then, you know, the second one was like, okay, well, we've seen this before.

It's awesome.

I mean, it's amazing.

We congratulate you on your technological prowess here in 1970.

But you just basically did the same thing.

You flew a rocket up to the moon.

You landed and then you got back safely to Earth.

You realized the real estate wasn't good.

There wasn't pools.

There's nothing.

So it was either like, where does this series go next?

And George Bush used to talk about, we're going to go to Mars and, you know, we're going to, and because if we started from the moon, it would be easier because we were already without gravity, you know, so we're just flying right into space.

Some gravity, not as much.

Not much, not as much as Earth.

So,

okay, that would be next.

I'm not for that, by the way, but that would be next if there was something.

But like, this series just ended because we couldn't get to Mars.

We didn't have that technology.

And we also just, what the fuck?

Why we keep going back to the moon?

Okay, we got a rock.

We know it's just this fucking barren thing that was a piece of the earth four billion years ago and flew off.

And okay.

Do you know what bothered me as a child?

And then I'll tell you another concept.

When you say

Santa Claus is almost back to Santa Claus, I was like, how do you get that?

That's a concern theory.

Why did they tell me about Santa Claus?

What was going on?

no but santa claus is real anyway

you haven't heard

so anyway the point is

as a kid i never know this is just as a child

okay i never knew why the rocket would take off there's the moon and it would always go away and we'd never see it like we could see the moon And we never see it.

Like nobody saw it from

a periscope, like their own, you know, telescope actually landing.

Never then, anything of that.

And if you look at the module.

A telescope would not see something that dude, this telescope sees things now going.

Your iPhone.

No, no, no.

You blow

a telescope in 1969 could not see something as small as our spaceship.

Is that the last time we went to the moon?

69?

Around that.

No, we went in the early 70s.

I'm just saying, there are things that fly.

No, I'm just saying that's not exactly.

There was a time, if you ask Native Americans, and before, there was a time before the moon, there was a school of thought.

Again, before the moon.

I don't necessarily believe everything.

I consider everything.

There's a school of thought that says the moon was not always there.

It's not.

No, again.

Well, it wasn't.

It wasn't always there.

It's not part of the Earth.

It's not like a piece that just broke off and then became perfectly real.

That's exactly what it is.

You know, not to.

We've got to hang out and make this a history lesson, but according to the Big Bang, Native Americans knew the time before the moon.

No.

The universe, the Big Bang, is 14 billion years ago, approximately.

Then

matter cooled for 200 million years.

And then

the stars started to form.

Earth was formed about 4 billion years ago, so about 10 billion years after the Big Bang.

And the moon was probably a piece of it or something.

You know, it's just

all just fucking rocks.

But how do you know this?

Oh, we don't know this.

Ah, okay.

No, no, no.

They're in Lisa Rub.

All we can do.

Of course.

I don't know anything either, but certainly.

You can admit that.

We can agree on that.

Certainly not the Big Bang thing, because that is theoretical astrophysics.

You're right.

I am absolutely trusting that Neil deGrasse Tyson knows better than the priest I had when I was a child.

Okay.

So, no, and it could be wrong.

And scientific theories are proved wrong.

And that one.

But they seem to think

why the Earth, the universe would have started that way seems seems inconceivable, but whatever.

They

seem to think they have stuff that they know, and I know how they basically what cost the Big Bang.

Well, exactly.

That question can never be answered.

And they don't try, astrophysicists don't try to answer that question.

That's not their job.

What is their job?

Their job is to is to decipher as well as they can what happened to create the universe and what the what the universe is now.

That's the question.

What happened to create the universe?

again they're not they're not interested in that that's not their thing

and none of us can know no no it's that they're not saying that they're responsible for that and they're not no one could be we don't know if if the big bang was 14 billion years ago why why start whole things off that way and why then and what happened before and those questions you will never answer exactly and and my answer to that is i don't care I just want to live a good life.

They say the exact same thing.

I don't care because I'll never know.

You're saying there's a lot that we don't know.

And so I just wish that we were all gentle to each other as human beings.

And we only have so much on this planet.

It's the ants in the jar analogy.

You know, they say red army ants and black ants get together, they're in a jar, there's no problem.

When somebody shakes the jar, they kill each other.

Really?

Yeah, our jar is being shaken so much.

By who?

I don't know.

Maybe the people who want to see us fight each other instead of them.

Maybe it's us.

Maybe we need to look in the mirror.

Maybe we're all just humans and it's our nature to be this way.

How about this?

I mean, I don't know.

Some of it is we're being manipulated, and some of it is just us.

Let me tell you about the Taino Indians when Columbus came in.

The Taino Indians and the Arawaks.

I never heard of them.

Arawaks, I heard of them.

Yeah, well, Taino are the ones that were specific to our island, and I think some of the Dominican Republic.

Columbus wrote about them.

These are beautiful people.

They're of copper skin.

They're very healthy.

Did Columbus get to Puerto Rico?

Yeah, oh, yeah.

That was his second trip.

Really?

Where did he stay?

At the Hyatt, I think.

No, no, at the El Convento.

Sorry.

Hyatt was after.

Anyway, he said, these are beautiful people.

They share everything they have.

They don't have, like, they don't, you know, they're very peaceful.

They're, they're loving.

They're just, with 50 men, we can make them do whatever we want.

And I'm thinking a different mindset took over.

I think human beings can be loving.

They can.

And we are generally good people.

But we're formed by people who don't believe in themselves, much less us.

So that's my thing.

Well, we're farmed.

We're just animals.

Our countries are like farms.

It's like the mob.

Hey, you control this territory.

I control that territory.

We're just animals.

And when you introduce the element of fear,

all bets are off.

Can we agree?

Can we agree on that?

Yes.

I mean,

if we were...

you know, crashed on a plane, just you and I in the Andes, one of us would eat the other.

I'm just saying.

Yeah, but

I'm of the thought that we would take our time and look and look to avoid that.

Of course, first.

I'm not saying on day two, I'd eat you.

Of course, I wouldn't eat you on day two.

Of course, stop being the killer white male.

Try to fucking find a better solution.

They say, no, we both, you know.

All right.

It's great to see you.

I hope this is the beginning of many times in the future since we missed too many years.

I've had some really wonderful times.

Yeah, yeah.

This is the ultimate man cave, by the way.

Okay.

No?

No, no, it is.

I want to see you back here.

I'm so glad we did this.

I was terrified I was going to cancel myself.

I hope I haven't.

You know what?

I think you got to lean into that shit.

A little bit, but you know.

Because, like, what are they going to do?

You have to have X amount of money.

Yeah.

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