Jane Fonda | Club Random with Bill Maher

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Speaker 3 Hey, what's up, Flies? This is David Spade, Dana Carvey. Look at it.
I know we never actually left, but I'll just say it. We are back with another season of Fly on the Wall.

Speaker 4 Every episode, including ones with guests, will now be on video.

Speaker 4 Every Thursday, you'll hear us and see us chatting with big-name celebrities.

Speaker 3 And every Monday, you're stuck with just me and Dana. We react to news, what's trending, viral clips.
Follow and listen to Fly on the Wall everywhere you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 You could be my son. I'd put you over my knees and spank you.

Speaker 1 Would you like? You'd probably like that.

Speaker 1 For someone like you to be willing to go to jail, which can't be false. If you're white and famous, going to jail is nothing.

Speaker 1 Hey, Bill. Hi.
Do you remember when I was last in this room? I remember. You probably don't.
I do. Hi.

Speaker 1 You were telling me to adjust the lighting. Huh? You told me to adjust the lighting.
I did. It was Larry David was here.
Yeah, I think it was my 16th birthday. What was it? And a lot of

Speaker 1 former playgirls, and we

Speaker 1 passed the volcano around.

Speaker 1 The volcano, yes. It was fun.
I remember.

Speaker 1 That was when I was with Richard, which is why I got invited, because I don't usually get invited to your parties. Oh, stop it.
That's right. I was going through Richard Perry to to get to Jane Fonda.

Speaker 1 You're daft about that. No, of course.
I mean, I love both of you. I knew Richard for a long time, probably before you did.

Speaker 1 When did you know him?

Speaker 1 Because we were both playgirls.

Speaker 1 I've heard.

Speaker 1 By the way, Playgirl is the magazine for, you know, I mean, it's actually for gay men, but it was the magazine that was out there. I did it once.

Speaker 1 I remember, it was the magazine for women, and they would have like firemen. I remember remember looking in the table of contents and there was, you know, like the first press I ever got.

Speaker 1 And there was a little picture of me, but, you know, Bill Moore speaks out on, and was right under a huge cock from whatever other article about the fireman.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 you look well. So do you.
Why do you look well?

Speaker 1 I mean, I haven't seen you in a decade. That's not true.
But I've watched you on TV. No, you've hung in there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean. No, you look very well.
Well, drugs.

Speaker 1 You know, I try to do a lot of drugs. No, I don't.
I smoke pot. How's that working for you? Good.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 you're not against it. What I don't do much is what I'm going to do now, drink.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's the key.

Speaker 1 Drinking? Of all the things that are bad for you. I'm too old, Billy.
Me, too. I'm too.
Yeah, but,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 falling down is a big problem when you're my age. So I don't drink really.
I mean, I do occasionally. I'll have a martini.
I love martinis, but I don't, I try not to get high because

Speaker 1 I only drink. I'm scared of falling.
You only drink here? Really? And you're, what is that? That's tequila. Oh.

Speaker 1 Can you give me just a little? And by the way, this is Kylie Jenner's, or no, maybe this is the other Jenners, but Kylie dressed as Barbarella for Halloween. Did you see that? No.
Oh.

Speaker 1 It's amazing the way

Speaker 1 a little, just a little. Yes.
I can measure it here. This is what I have here, so I don't drink too much.
I'll give you half. Half a shot.
Half is.

Speaker 1 Right, no,

Speaker 1 I got it. Now, would you like some sparkling water with that? No.
No.

Speaker 1 No. No, pussy.
Great to see you. Good to see you, Laha.

Speaker 1 But yes, one of the, yeah, it was Kendall Chen. What? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, see, the Kardashians will love you for that because they need more money. Oh, it's nice.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, it's good. But it's amazing.
Barbarella still

Speaker 1 like something that the, you know.

Speaker 1 The cat bragged in.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 the fact that. It's hard for me to believe that I ever made that movie.
It's hard.

Speaker 1 It is amazing the way

Speaker 1 you almost are a

Speaker 1 microcosm of the country as it moved from decade to decade. I mean, all the things you are.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 cultural icon, of course,

Speaker 1 someone who affected the culture. You know, great performer, you know, at your job, you were always amazing.
I mean, and just world-class piece of ass. I hope that's not picking out of school.

Speaker 1 Thank you. You know, great looking then, kept your looks.
I mean, that's rare.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But you were genetically blessed, which is, you know, when I watched the documentary, it didn't seem like your mother was a great beauty.

Speaker 1 Your father's got a nice look, Midwestern look, but he wasn't like Carrie Grant or,

Speaker 1 you know, Clark Gable.

Speaker 1 He was nice looking, but like

Speaker 1 when he was so handsome. Oh, my God.
Really? Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It just seems like you're much better looking than your parents.

Speaker 1 And my mother was also a great beauty in her heyday. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And men just, just, my father wrote in his autobiography that men were drawn to her like moths to a flame. She was extremely beautiful.
I don't look anything like her.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 1 I mean, that does not come across in the documentary.

Speaker 1 I mean, she looks nice, but I mean, of course, a lot of it was showing her when she was sad.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's a great theme that runs through it. She was sad

Speaker 1 all her life. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, people, I'm going to be 87 in a few months. And people say to me, where do you get your energy? And it always surprises me because

Speaker 1 I don't feel like I'm more energetic or anything than anybody else. I just, I don't know.
I guess people expect when you're my age that you're kind of on your way out.

Speaker 1 Well, I am definitely on my way out.

Speaker 1 Well, we're all on our way out. Death is so democratic.
Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 but do you feel less energetic than you were? No, I feel more. That's what's so weird.
In

Speaker 1 fundamental ways, I feel younger than I did when I was in my 20s.

Speaker 1 I was so old when I was young. So old.
Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, of course I do. I'm almost 70.

Speaker 1 So young. You could be my son.
Right.

Speaker 1 Well, if you're.

Speaker 1 I'd be worried if I had a son like you. Yeah, you should be.
But there's that bird song. Remember the birds, the band?

Speaker 1 I remember them very well.

Speaker 1 But they had a great line about something i was so much younger than maybe it's a donut oh i was you know this yeah i know the line you mean but i can't remember what it is but it's like uh i was so much younger than than before yeah right with the idea being that you actually do in some ways get younger when you get older i feel like i'm uh i don't know if i'm more energetic but I'm so much smarter about my health.

Speaker 1 I've learned so much about health. I've learned

Speaker 1 health and how to take care of myself.

Speaker 1 And you want to take care of yourself. Well, you have to, because when you're old, you're on a short leash.
I've said it before, but when you're young, your body's almost too good because

Speaker 1 you can beat it up so badly. You can do drugs and stay up all night and snort Coke through a dirty $20 bill and you're fine.

Speaker 1 And you get up on two hours' sleep and you go to work and you're, and you just can't do that at a certain age. The drinking we were talking about, I'd love to be able to drink.
I still love drinking.

Speaker 1 I loved it every minute I did it. I just can't do it.
I'll look like shit and it'll make me sick. Good for you.

Speaker 1 Good for me. It's a

Speaker 1 good idea. Not everybody realizes that.
I never was, I never beat myself up like you just described. I was never a big druggie or, you know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, I mean,

Speaker 1 I did all the drugs. I don't think I, I was, I'm lucky.
I don't think I'm an addictive personality. So I never got too into anything it's a big doobie

Speaker 1 that's what Mrs. Arnold Palmer said

Speaker 1 oh oh yeah I know

Speaker 1 oh well

Speaker 1 the way we just both had that same thought like oh yeah I mean

Speaker 1 yeah I'm it's hard to believe I'm shitting my pen it's hard to believe I mean I may quit because I don't want to do another I did Trump I did I I did all the Trump stuff before anybody I called him a con man before anybody.

Speaker 1 I did he's a mafia boss. I was the one who said he wasn't going to concede the election.
I've done it. I've seen this fucking.

Speaker 1 Well, then how come he's so hostile to Jimmy Kimmel and not to you? He's very hostile to me. He thinks about me every week.
Oh, really? Oh, yes.

Speaker 1 Every week he accidentally watches my show and then low ratings loser. Oh, well, yeah.
But, I mean,

Speaker 1 I just,

Speaker 1 I'm bored with it. I mean,

Speaker 1 so find a new thing to do and not do Trump.

Speaker 1 Do something else.

Speaker 1 The show is the politics.

Speaker 1 There's no other thing than, and he's going to dominate the news like he always does because I had a congressman, no, a governor on, Governor Jared Polis of Colorado. He's bad.

Speaker 1 Bad. He's a bad governor.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 1 okay there's a town in in in a suburb of denver called commerce city people are dying because they're surrounded by an oil terminal and a pet food factory and a

Speaker 1 super fund site and they're dying and he does nothing He does nothing about it. Nor do the senators, Bennett and Hickenlooper.
Well, why do you suppose that is? I mean, if he is not.

Speaker 1 Because he takes money from the fossil fuel industry. I'll bet you anything.
Okay, but we're talking, if the folks out there don't know who we're talking about, he's a liberal Democrat.

Speaker 1 He's a Democrat who is, this is really weird. This is what his constituents say, that he's a Democrat who is a libertarian.
So?

Speaker 1 He doesn't like regulations. Well, we live in a soup.
of toxic chemicals. If we don't regulate it, we're all going to die of cancer.
That's true.

Speaker 1 He doesn't do anything about that. There's also many regulations that aren't necessary, that aren't.
I mean,

Speaker 1 you really don't believe that the state we live in, California, is lacking regulation. There's over 300,000 regulations.
I mean, I once... Well, maybe they're needed.
They're not.

Speaker 1 When I tried to put in a garage door, I had to have three inspections. There should have been none.
I should be allowed to change my garage door. Are you kidding? Really, it was about a garage door?

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I'm sorry.
Yeah, that is. No, you know this about California.
No, I don't. Well,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. I don't.
You don't. You've never heard that California is overtaxed and over-regulated, that

Speaker 1 we are a one-party state where there's sort of no checks on that sort of extreme leftism.

Speaker 1 And that why do you think California? I don't for a minute consider California a state that is extreme leftist.

Speaker 1 Not at all, not any way. Well, that shows where your politics are.

Speaker 1 That's not where mine are. I'm sorry to tell you, is because that I've been saying this on my show.

Speaker 1 There is two parts of the Trump coalition. There's about a third of this country who always loved the hard right wing.

Speaker 1 That's the Birch Society. We're old enough to remember the John Birch Society.
I had family members who were John Birch. Really?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And these were people who were happy when Kennedy got assassinated. They became the

Speaker 1 birthers. They became the Tea Party.
There's about a third of this country that's very hard right. Of course they love Trump.

Speaker 1 When he left office, he had an approval rating of 34%. So he really only had those people.

Speaker 1 Why is he now like tied?

Speaker 1 Because the other part of the coalition are people who they don't really like him that much. They just think the far left

Speaker 1 has gone so nutty on so many issues. That's what they're being told.
That's what they by people like you. Because it's true.
You think the far left does nothing crazy? Oh, I'm sure they do.

Speaker 1 Oh, well then. But I don't know.
Who is the far left? What do you mean when you say far left? I mean, I could give you a million examples. Oh, give me one.
Okay, the NAACP.

Speaker 1 You think the NAACP is far left? Can I finish my sentence? Yes. You asked me for an example.
Yeah. The NAACP last year issued a travel advisory.

Speaker 1 You know, that's like we used to, the State Department does to go to, I'm sure when you went to Vietnam, they were advising you not to. There's a war on it.
I didn't talk to them.

Speaker 1 I don't have no idea. I know, but you know a travel advisory.
Today we have them for very dangerous countries.

Speaker 1 Don't go to North Korea. Don't go to Iran.

Speaker 1 Do you know where they issued a travel advisory for black people not to go? Yeah. Florida.

Speaker 1 Every day there's stories like that where that just makes people roll their eyes and go, Are you people nuts?

Speaker 1 Even if they don't matter that much, I don't think one person listened to this and thought, I can't go to Florida.

Speaker 1 But they just suggest something to the average person, which I completely understand, which is,

Speaker 1 wow,

Speaker 1 do you people ever find anything that's ridiculous? Do you really think men can get pregnant? You know, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 And I understand that a trans woman can get pregnant. That's different than a man getting pregnant.

Speaker 1 And the way they sort of like insist on blurring that line is if that's some sort of reasonable social cause, as opposed to just being for

Speaker 1 having full rights, respect, and protection for trans people. We get that.
So I've never heard about men getting pregnant. I've never heard about this argument.

Speaker 1 It must be some part of what you call the far left that is so minuscule that I, who am No, Jane. What? It's not minuscule.
And I'm sorry, you can't throw this back on us.

Speaker 1 I assume it's because you are locked into media that just never

Speaker 1 wants anyone in their audience to know anything sketchy about the blue team.

Speaker 1 Well, and that's

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know. I read two papers and I that's yeah, I maybe I don't.

Speaker 1 I should watch Fox News. No,

Speaker 1 I don't watch. That's too far.
But you don't have to.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm not going to torture myself. But I like to, but I know what they're saying.
I'm for the team that understands that everybody should have the same opportunities, that everybody should be

Speaker 1 able to attain a middle-class life. That's right.
That's not what we're talking about. Child care should be, I mean,

Speaker 1 this isn't far left.

Speaker 1 No, that isn't. It's interesting.

Speaker 1 The Democratic politicians

Speaker 1 generally in this country are not far left. They don't stand up to the crazy when they hear it.
That's true. But they themselves, like after 2020, a big rallying cry was defund the police.

Speaker 1 You remember that? Yeah, I was critical of that. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. And so were most Democratic politicians.
The Republicans tried to-I don't know where it comes from, though. I mean, I understand where the

Speaker 1 desire to do something about a police force that all too often is willing to shoot black people.

Speaker 1 But defund the police, I knew, was a very bad political slogan.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, there's a lot we could unpack there, but

Speaker 1 that certainly has been the history of this country, was black, was police who were all too willing to shoot black people.

Speaker 1 So defund the police, though, was not a good idea.

Speaker 1 And, you know, who mostly didn't think it was a good idea was black people, because they want police in their neighborhoods, probably more than we need them in ours.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 but the Republicans tried to catch the Democrats with this, and they put this on, you know, they brought it up in Congress. And all the Democrats voted against it.

Speaker 1 The Democratic politicians were not for defunding the police.

Speaker 1 It's that radical fringe that has captured a lot of the media, academia, some of these cultural institutions that are not liberal anymore by my old school liberalism. The ACLU

Speaker 1 was all about free speech. They don't really believe in it anymore.

Speaker 1 They believe, I mean, in one of their chief people who is trans, said,

Speaker 1 I will die on this hill of banning this book, which was a very reasonable book about a subject that's still debatable.

Speaker 1 What was the subject of the book?

Speaker 1 How we should treat kids who say they are trans. Oh,

Speaker 1 you know, which is

Speaker 1 one of those issues, I think, which is,

Speaker 1 you know, there's a centrist position that's like, yes, of course it's a real thing that we should deal with, but we are a country that does it in a way no other country does anymore. Household.

Speaker 1 Allowing no age limits and do it by self-diagnosis of the child and make it illegal in some places to tell the parent if the kid is in school and has transitioned

Speaker 1 using a different name and so forth.

Speaker 1 I've heard them say it's outing the child. Outing to a parent? I think a parent should be able to know pretty much what their kid's doing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, normally, yeah. There are probably

Speaker 1 situations where the parents, maybe the child is being incested, or you know, that is that is why they do it.

Speaker 1 But you know what I feel?

Speaker 1 I feel like you're taking a problem that exists. There is somewhere some

Speaker 1 pretty dismissible and

Speaker 1 far left thing. And you're making it a big issue.
And I don't think it is.

Speaker 1 This is the argument people say. And my answer to that is, I don't think you know.
You're saying, I don't know. I think you don't know how pervasive some of this stuff is.
And you're right.

Speaker 1 Many schools, it's just like school was sort of in our day.

Speaker 1 I do hear, I talk to parents, and some of them say that. But there's also undeniable.

Speaker 1 You can see, like, you don't need a filter of any sort of media to see teachers who are making TikToks and telling you about how they conduct their class and so forth. And

Speaker 1 I imagine my parents would not approve of some of that stuff. And, you know,

Speaker 1 it's okay. We want to have a world where the kids understand

Speaker 1 that it's okay to be whatever you are, gay, trans, black, white. This is old school liberalism.
It's another thing to sort of put out the idea so much that you might not be the default setting.

Speaker 1 You know, there is a default setting. That doesn't mean it's better.
It's just a different

Speaker 1 male and female.

Speaker 1 What's the default setting is?

Speaker 1 Babies are born either male or female.

Speaker 1 But there is variations. That doesn't mean it's worse.
And we respect it just as much.

Speaker 1 But that's sort of, that's not what they, that's not what a lot of the TikToks are about. They're not, it's much, it's a lot.
I know this because I've been around longer than you have.

Speaker 1 And what I have always noticed is that the beginning of any movement, people are very radical and very,

Speaker 1 I don't know what the right word is, but.

Speaker 1 you know, and then it kind of like

Speaker 1 joins reality more. And I think that that's...

Speaker 1 Yeah, like I said, the Democratic politicians, I feel like by and large, they do live in reality.

Speaker 1 They're in it more for the right reasons.

Speaker 1 They're more likely to be policy wonks and actually know the details. Republicans, very few of them ever like know any details.
That's just not where their mind goes.

Speaker 1 You know, Bush, Reagan, Trump, you know, you think of them and you don't think of them

Speaker 1 like really mastering the subject like Obama, Hillary, Clinton, you know, Bill Clinton.

Speaker 1 They were wonks, you know, and that's what you really need to be to be an effective governor of the country or the state.

Speaker 1 But like Clinton and Obama, which are our last two successful Democratic presidents, two-term,

Speaker 1 Both of them went much more toward the middle. That was their success.
And I don't see anybody anymore going toward the middle. The Trump people, they just go toward being as big a dick as we can.

Speaker 1 We'll have a rally and like, let me just say awful things and call her a

Speaker 1 whore, you know, just disgusting. Okay, we're facing a climate crisis.
Oh, that's.

Speaker 1 And we, according to science, I believe in paying attention to the science, we don't have a lot of time to do something about it. There comes a point where the tipping points

Speaker 1 and then there's nothing we can do. It's out of our control.
And we don't have a lot of time between now and the tipping points, okay?

Speaker 1 Which is stop all new fossil fuel development,

Speaker 1 cut our emissions in half very quickly, and then gradually phase out. That would probably be considered maybe even by you as radical.

Speaker 1 Well, it doesn't even matter because it's never going to happen.

Speaker 1 That's just not something humans are willing to do it's going to have to happen no it's or there's no future for us well that's well first of all that's not necessarily true i've always been on your page you know well then how can you say that isn't necessarily true i'll get to it if you let me okay okay um first of all the problem with uh tipping points which i totally am on the page there is a tipping point and it could be tomorrow we don't know but The problem with that argument is that they have been saying it for a long time and made tipping point predictions that we've passed.

Speaker 1 That doesn't mean it's not going to happen because I agreed, it is going to happen. It's just common sense.
You can't do what we're doing. We know how it changes the atmosphere.

Speaker 1 Most of the discussion in the last year has been about there are like four or five new methods they've come

Speaker 1 to, you know,

Speaker 1 maybe AI had something to do with it. I don't know, but that are coming online, carbon capturing type of stuff.
Right. We can't depend on that.

Speaker 1 We can't.

Speaker 1 We can't. My question always is, we tried people should be better.
And they're like, fuck you.

Speaker 1 And that's just Americans. What about the Chinese and the Indians who for, you know, that's most of the planet.

Speaker 1 And for years, they didn't have cars and air conditioning because they were poor, but they've been lifted out of poverty by the hundreds of millions. And now they want cars and air conditioning.

Speaker 1 Are Are you going to tell them, rich white lady, sorry, we used up all the air and now you can't have these things? They're going to go, fuck that. You guys enjoyed it and we're going to have it.

Speaker 1 What we do is the simplest and the least expensive thing, which is we bring solar to them. You know, the powers that be want to bring nuclear, which is a disastrous.

Speaker 1 You made a movie about it. Yeah, it's a terrible idea, and it certainly won't solve the climate crisis.
It takes at least 10 to 20 years to build a reactor.

Speaker 1 No, we bring them inexpensive, locally controlled solar energy

Speaker 1 and electric cars. We haven't lived up to our promises of giving them money and we need to give the Global South money so they can do these things.
They don't have to go through the same...

Speaker 1 Again, people. So people are going to give.
You know,

Speaker 1 even liberals,

Speaker 1 when they're polled about this,

Speaker 1 and even when they say, like, agreeing with us, that this is a crisis and then the question next question is and what would you pay in a year to address this crisis and the answer is like ten dollars or maybe a hundred it not close to the money we're talking about I mean but we have to get in a government that will give the money that we're talking about well you have to vote we have to make sure that

Speaker 1 that part of the world that needs development like we've had we have to offer them this the new way of developing you don't have to go right through you know it's like there are countries that left over feudalism they don't have to go through fossil fuels to get to a sustainable energy source we can yeah

Speaker 1 but I mean darling

Speaker 1 this would have to be passed by Congress

Speaker 1 we we can't transfer trillions of dollars especially to other nations by fiat unless we become a dictatorship, which that's why voting is so important.

Speaker 1 We have to elect people who understand, be they Republicans or Democrats, that we're in a crisis and it's we have to do everything we can and we have to say

Speaker 1 but I'm telling you, nobody in Congress is going to vote for that because they would have to answer to their constituents who would be saying,

Speaker 1 Why are you saying that my taxes have to go up 60%?

Speaker 1 Let me tell you something. India,

Speaker 1 that's just going to happen in America. You know that.

Speaker 1 We, taxpayers, including poor people, out-of-work people all across this country,

Speaker 1 are giving $20 billion to the fossil fuel industry every year. Think what that money could do.
$20 billion could go to Africa, South America, the places that want to develop and solve their problems.

Speaker 1 We're paying for that. The people that are killing us are getting our money to do it.
So we stop that, stop the subsidies, and put it to helping the rest of the world.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? I'm not opposed to your plan. I'm just saying it's not a plan that will ever get passed.
So why obsess about it? Maybe what we should do,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry to say it, I always resisted it, is yes, we might have to invent our way out of this. And it looks,

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, all the articles this year, not from right-wing sources, this is in the New York Times, are actually very promising.

Speaker 1 There's like five new, which kind of makes sense because we are getting, I mean, with AI especially,

Speaker 1 the amount of scientific questions that elude us is going to decrease exponentially.

Speaker 1 This is how I think that you and I might be sitting here 100 years and having this 100th year anniversary of the first time you were on Club Random because it's possible we could live forever.

Speaker 1 I certainly hope you do.

Speaker 1 I certainly hope I don't. Really? No.

Speaker 1 Why? You're having a great great time no i no life

Speaker 1 no i mean now life only makes sense if there's a beginning a middle and an end why that's a story that's not life i mean if you really think about living forever uh-uh

Speaker 1 not tempting to me at all but you don't want to go tomorrow

Speaker 1 so you think there's a day that's going to be like oh tomorrow is a good day i don't care I'm not afraid of dying.

Speaker 1 I just want to be sure that when I die, I know that I've done everything I possibly could.

Speaker 1 Well, that you did. I am.
I mean, you're so cynical. God.

Speaker 1 Well, and you're so naive.

Speaker 1 You think so? Yes.

Speaker 1 But I love you.

Speaker 1 But yeah, you're very much like the character in the way we were.

Speaker 1 I mean, you could have played that part. Not that Barbara didn't do an amazing, awesome, perfect job.
Well, according to Barbara, my whole career I owe to her.

Speaker 1 Well, let's not get God. But we won't go into that.

Speaker 1 But you know the character I'm talking about. I don't know if you're.
Barbara Schreisett's character? Yes, in the way we were. Or Robert Redford's character.
I get it.

Speaker 1 No. I can't remember the movie well enough to know what you're talking about.
Okay, well, I'm going to tell you, it's a really great movie.

Speaker 1 And she's, she's the, because she plays a part who's very close to who she is. Everything is super political.
And so I'm saying you could have played it.

Speaker 1 You know, and she, like, there's a great scene at the beginning, and, you know, she has this rally, and she's for the communists.

Speaker 1 It's the 1930s, and all the kids are against her, and then she wins them, and then she loses them because she won't laugh at herself.

Speaker 1 And she says, Everything is

Speaker 1 this, and protesting. And Robert Redford, and he's just like the handsome shicks of Goddess, you know.
And he's like, Katie, you never stop, do you? You never stop. And she doesn't.

Speaker 1 And that kind of is Barbara. She never stops.
But you have sort of that same gene. I mean, it's like

Speaker 1 sometimes I wonder if we had a utopia, it would be the greatest pain for you because you need, because you need to be,

Speaker 1 I mean, you're there for the cause, absolutely sincerely, but also the cause is there for you a little.

Speaker 1 Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 I don't, you're so different than me that it's hard for me sometimes to even understand what you're talking about. Really?

Speaker 1 So we must have a lot in common. I don't think we do.
Really? No.

Speaker 1 Why? Except that Tequila is really good. Why? What do you think is so different about me?

Speaker 1 Just your worldview is so totally different than mine. I just, I don't see people the same way.
I don't see.

Speaker 1 You think I'm a cynic? I think you're very cynical. I know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But don't you think the world makes you cynical? I don't know. I'm not cynical.
And I've been around longer than you. Yeah.
A good 20 years more. You could be my son.

Speaker 1 I'd put you over my knees and spank you.

Speaker 1 Would you like? You'd probably like that.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I think I'm very normal. I think I'm very normal.
And

Speaker 1 I love when I grew up. You know, I think it was like a very normal time.

Speaker 1 If you were white, yeah. Yes, if you were white, absolutely.

Speaker 1 Glad we said that.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 I can't help that, nor could you, and when we were born and how we were, you know, I mean, I think. The color of our skins.
Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 the problem with race, I always feel, is like you and I personally didn't do it, but our race did it.

Speaker 1 And continues. And we benefited from it.
And still do, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But less than before. I feel.
One problem liberals have is they don't they don't feel like they can acknowledge progress because it somehow makes them less good.

Speaker 1 They just have to always, there's more work to be done. And there always is more work to be done.
We're humans on earth. There always will be.

Speaker 1 No, but it's pretty serious for people of color. What is?

Speaker 1 The ability to live a middle-class life, the ability to accumulate wealth, the ability to own a home.

Speaker 1 You know, they are prevented from doing those things by laws that remain in place, like redlining and mortgage issues and so forth. That remain in place?

Speaker 1 Redlining?

Speaker 1 Mortgage issues, they can't get the same

Speaker 1 loans and mortgages that we do, white people do.

Speaker 1 It's not against the law to

Speaker 1 discriminate

Speaker 1 for a business to handle that.

Speaker 1 I guess there must be some laws, but they're not, I don't know. They're still discriminated against.
I don't know about the laws. It still happens.
It's very hard for black people. Well,

Speaker 1 racism still is with us.

Speaker 1 The question I think we're asking is, is it institutional? I mean, you can never...

Speaker 1 It's institutional

Speaker 1 in terms of wealth accumulation. It's very hard for people of color to accumulate wealth the way we can.
Definitely the biggest

Speaker 1 factor when you look at discrepancy is family wealth. It's crazy.
Like the average net worth.

Speaker 1 This obviously is a legacy of our despicable history. I mean, for the longest time, black folks couldn't own anything.
Do you consider it very radical?

Speaker 1 But yeah, but the question then is, how do you address that?

Speaker 1 Well, you try to organize in the mortgage banking community. I just spoke to a

Speaker 1 conference of mortgage bankers.

Speaker 1 That's one way.

Speaker 1 We have to change the laws.

Speaker 1 Change the regulations? Well, I must admit, this one is not one that's on my radar. I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 I certainly was aware that, you know, for different reasons, I thought

Speaker 1 black folks sometimes did have a harder time just getting a mortgage, you know, getting a loan. That's just individual racism that people have.
These people just

Speaker 1 have stereotypes.

Speaker 1 But I feel like we passed the laws that we, we, you mean, like this is not covered in any statute right up until 2024 that a mortgage company can do that? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't think that redlining is legal anymore, but there are other ways that the banking system and the real estate system keeps people of color out of

Speaker 1 communities, nice homes. The ability to, you know, home ownership is the beginning of wealth accumulation.
It's something that everybody should be able to do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, it's a difficult problem because there's so much accumulated from centuries of having a monopoly on it,

Speaker 1 white wealth. And parents tend to give their money when they die to their kids.
That's why we have so many fucking Nepo babies.

Speaker 1 And people, I mean, this town is just, if you go out at night, No, no, no, but if you ever went to like a hotspot, first of all, they would, they would lionize you.

Speaker 1 It's interesting, like

Speaker 1 girls in their 20s,

Speaker 1 they don't know a lot of celebrities. They all know you.

Speaker 1 They all idolize you. Because I've been arrested a lot.
You've been arrested. I've spoken my mind.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you stayed relevant, you know, and you,

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 but that's to get that generation to go from your own generation down to that generation.

Speaker 1 That's not a lot of thing, something a lot of people can claim.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's okay because I don't think in those terms very much. I just live my life.

Speaker 1 And it turns out that young people care about the same issues I do, and so they like that I'm willing to put myself on the line for them. I think it's as simple as that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because their complaint usually about people our age is, well, what do you care? You're not going to be here

Speaker 1 after you wreck the planet. Yeah.
So for someone like you to be willing to go to jail, which can't be fair. If you're white and famous, going to jail is nothing.
It doesn't mean anything. Right.

Speaker 1 You know, I noticed during the four months that I was in D.C. getting arrested every Friday with fire drill Fridays, very few of our speakers of color joined me.
And that's because it's

Speaker 1 jail means one thing to people like us and another thing if you're black or Hispanic. And they said, no, thanks.

Speaker 1 They spoke at the rallies, but they didn't want to

Speaker 1 engage in civil disobedience. I mean, it's different like in the South during the amazing

Speaker 1 in the 50s and 60s when really brave black kids sat at lunch counters and got beaten.

Speaker 1 But that was their issue. You know, climate isn't quite on a place where they're willing to get beaten up yet, I guess.
But

Speaker 1 young people really care about climate, though.

Speaker 1 Young people, what? Really care about climate because

Speaker 1 it's their future that we're squandering and destroying. And

Speaker 1 I mean, again,

Speaker 1 we're talking about,

Speaker 1 I feel like a common goal, a common belief that it's really happening. But then, I mean, it is a reasonable debate, is it not? It's not cynical to argue about how do we get there.

Speaker 1 And it's, I don't think it's like... No, that's not cynical.
Okay. Well, neither is, I think, being practical, like, and, and being able to say, but this is never going to really happen.

Speaker 1 I mean, as much as it should happen, and we want it to happen, and we can keep agitating for it to happen.

Speaker 1 I just don't think people are going to give up the quality of being selfish and not being able to see. They want to live in the present, not the future.

Speaker 1 When they struck in Paris a few years ago, the guy, the famous line was the guy said, Macron, who was trying to get something done globally, he said, he cares about the end of the world.

Speaker 1 I care about the end of the month. Right.

Speaker 1 But the real way to do it,

Speaker 1 that we may never learn. We may go extinct without ever learning it.
But Indigenous people know this.

Speaker 1 Seven generations. You have to always think, seven generations, what is this going to mean? And we've lost.
Have you been on TikTok? They can't think for seven seconds. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 That's the problem with TikTok.

Speaker 1 well you mean the problem is we have we have been alienated from nature we don't understand that we are nature we just have bigger brains and thumbs so we can destroy nature but we are nature if we destroy or continue in this transactional way with nature we're gonna

Speaker 1 it's like how if there is a civilization in the future to look back on this they're gonna look at us and think how stupid could people have been

Speaker 1 to know what's happening and not rise up and do something about it?

Speaker 1 Well, there are those who believe they may already be among us studying us.

Speaker 1 And, you know, then there's the scene where Keanu Reeves comes in and says, Look, I'm a nice guy, you're nice people, but you're going to have to go because you're fucking everything up.

Speaker 1 And we are. I mean, humans are serial killers.

Speaker 1 Like, you ever read that book, Sapiens?

Speaker 1 No. Oh, it's great.
You'd love it. Who wrote it? Yuval Hari.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, it's a

Speaker 1 one of the points he makes is that wherever in the fossil record we see humans go, like a thousand years after that, all the large animals are extinct.

Speaker 1 And there used to be a number of human species, not just Homo sapiens. We killed all Neanderthals.
You know, we killed all them. Well, we don't know if we killed them.

Speaker 1 They died off for various reasons. No, we killed them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely. Homo sapiens killed all those things.
They killed all the big animals. Now they're killing, you know, all the fish.

Speaker 1 We just kill everything. The only thing left is each other, which is certainly possible.
I mean, it's amazing that we've lived since 1945 with nuclear weapons, or since 1949, when more than one.

Speaker 1 country had them and haven't done that yet.

Speaker 1 To me, that's like the scariest of all. I mean, the pollution, yes, the global warming, it is a slow killer.

Speaker 1 But the other thing could happen,

Speaker 1 even if just India and Pakistan

Speaker 1 exchange their nuclear weapons, that's the end of the earth.

Speaker 1 They're trying to bring back nuclear, saying that it's the solution to climate crisis.

Speaker 1 But it is clean. No No nuclear reactor has ever been built in less than 10 years, and most are 20 years.

Speaker 1 That takes it off the table in terms of a solution to the climate crisis. I mean, we're in a burning house.
There's a hose lying at our feet, and we're talking about, let's spend $34 billion.

Speaker 1 In 10, 20 years, we'll have a nuclear plant that go pick up the frigging hose.

Speaker 1 Solar and wind in particular are becoming so inexpensive and so available that

Speaker 1 they're irresistible for the market. These are going to become the reality.

Speaker 1 And if we can just stop digging and fracking and mining,

Speaker 1 it can do it for us if we do it fast.

Speaker 1 I saw Maria last night. Maria.
It's the movie about Callus, Maria Callis. Oh, okay.
Great opera singer. And played by Angelina.
Angelina Jolie. Wow.
She's fabulous. I'm sure.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, of course.

Speaker 1 Because she's so talented. She is very talented.
She's really, really talented. But she hasn't had a chance like this since Girl Interrupted.
Really? Since that far back? I don't, I mean,

Speaker 1 that she owns, she owns Maria Cow. She is, she has Maria Callis in her.
And I met Maria Callis and

Speaker 1 Angelina captured it. The sadness and the playfulness at the same time.
Angelina has some of you in her.

Speaker 1 I mean, she

Speaker 1 well, she, well, yeah. I mean, she's done, first of all, she's done at least two movies that were really,

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 I don't think any studio expected them to do that well. The Girl Interrupted being one? No, no, no, no.
I'm talking about movies that she directed. Oh, yeah.
One was about... Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, I think Serbia.

Speaker 1 And one was about Cambodia. Well, yeah, I know.
I know what you're talking about. And, you know,

Speaker 1 you've got to give it up to someone who will put their stock on the line to do a movie that, again, a lot of people are not going to be interested in. They're serious subjects.

Speaker 1 But, you know, to draw attention to, yeah.

Speaker 1 And, I mean, Collis.

Speaker 1 Boy, does that take courage to step up for that? Educate me on Maria Collis, because I know very vaguely opera singer. She was a very, she, very poor girl in

Speaker 1 Greece. She was Greek.
And

Speaker 1 she had had a troubled, I'm not going to give away too much a troubled childhood, but at any rate, she became

Speaker 1 arguably the most brilliant opera singer that ever existed and remains that way. I mean, just extraordinary voice.
What years are we talking about? The 40s, 50s? Well, let's see.

Speaker 1 It was the mid-50s when I saw her and she was already with Onassis.

Speaker 1 She was with Onassis?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 He became her lover. He refused to let her sing when they were together And he dumped her for Jackie O'Nasseth.
Oh, it was that close to when he was with Jackie. Yeah.
Wow.

Speaker 1 You know, she had a. Well, that's the 60s.

Speaker 1 It was a difficult life, but she was adored. I mean, she was

Speaker 1 beyond talented. What do you think of Onassis? Is he that kind of guy that you could have gone for? Because, like, for Jackie Kennedy to find him interesting enough to get with.

Speaker 1 Did you ever meet him? Onassis? Yeah. She, you know, in the movie,

Speaker 1 she was,

Speaker 1 Maria, played by Angelina Jolie, is asked why she loved Onassis.

Speaker 1 And she said, he let me be a girl again.

Speaker 1 You know, it doesn't matter when I think about him or anything, but

Speaker 1 it was an interesting movie, and she was extraordinary. She was so brave, really.

Speaker 1 It was really nice to see.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 I feel like I learned too late in life, not too late, but late, that you can love somebody, but they have to be right for you.

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I guess your guys were right for you at the time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 1 I think probably, Bill, at some point in my long life,

Speaker 1 the right guy came.

Speaker 1 You know, he crossed my path, the right guy, and I fled in terror. Like you were thinking of somebody specific? No,

Speaker 1 because I don't know who it was, but I'll bet.

Speaker 1 And I fled in terror. Right guy being someone really nice,

Speaker 1 capable of cherishing me,

Speaker 1 not being threatened by me.

Speaker 1 Who would say, come on, Jane, show up.

Speaker 1 Tell me what's really wrong. It doesn't seem that hard.
You're such a nurturer. I mean, the common thread that goes through all of your relationships.
Never happened, okay?

Speaker 1 Because anybody who would have asked that of me, I would have said,

Speaker 1 ask what of you? Nurture? Show up.

Speaker 1 Come on, really show up.

Speaker 1 I don't know what that means, show up.

Speaker 1 It means being in a real relationship. It means

Speaker 1 being attuned to

Speaker 1 not just the facts of what's happening, but the inner life that's going on

Speaker 1 and why it's going the way it is. And talk to me, you know, I mean, really.

Speaker 1 And you never had that? Huh? No. Come on.

Speaker 1 With none of them? No. At all?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No. People who don't do it for themselves aren't going to ask you to do it with them.
Do it, meaning being in a real,

Speaker 1 a real relationship. I don't know.
This is another one of those places where we are on two different planets because i feel like my whole life

Speaker 1 i i've had girlfriends who

Speaker 1 yes that their complaint was sort of like i want more of you i want to go deeper and i'm like this is it

Speaker 1 i'm telling you this is it

Speaker 1 we're we're under we're on like level c of parking this no there's no more i i this all and that's a very tough situation sometimes for a man to feel like well i i want to give somebody everything, but they think there's more and this is

Speaker 1 as good as it gets. You know, I'm not holding anything back.
I don't think I've ever been somebody who kept secrets. I never got married.
I don't have to.

Speaker 1 Marriage is when you have to have secret. Married people are the ones with secret.
Oh, my goodness. And see the cynicism coming out now.
It's just reality. You don't think that's real?

Speaker 1 No, not necessarily.

Speaker 1 I know people who have been together 60, 70 years

Speaker 1 and actually love each other more. Of course,

Speaker 1 there's room for everything. But you have to admit, they are somewhat of a rarity.

Speaker 1 Somewhat of a rarity.

Speaker 1 I don't think they're the majority. They are not the majority.
Right.

Speaker 1 It would be nice to try to have

Speaker 1 a society that allowed those kinds of people to be the majority. You know, I think

Speaker 1 a lot of who we become as human beings has to do with the institutions that surround our lives. Marriage is an institution, and I don't want to live in an institution.
No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 You know, no, but marriage is really just simply a deeper commitment.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it certainly is. There's no denying that.
It is a commitment.

Speaker 1 It's saying, I am throwing my lot in with

Speaker 1 state and federal law.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 that part of it, I never understood why you want to get your love life involved with lawyers if it doesn't go right. You know, if

Speaker 1 two people who are fully conjoined have to deal with things like insurance, health care,

Speaker 1 estate planning, all those kind of things. It's just

Speaker 1 natural, especially if you have children.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't seem like, I mean, I've been through it with three different men. It never never feels like it's an imposition from

Speaker 1 the dark state or something like that. It's just this is what you do when you commit to each other.

Speaker 1 And then you undo it when you uncommit,

Speaker 1 which I've done. It's not too late for you to find that guy.
No, I've closed it up shut.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, relationships take on many forms. You know,

Speaker 1 I'm so happy being single yeah me too

Speaker 1 i mean why are we arguing about it

Speaker 1 no right and also i must say maybe this will sound cynical to you but i'm sorry though the longer people know each other the more they lie

Speaker 1 people are honest at the beginning because there's there's no place easier to be honest than on a first date yes and as people are you know gilding the lilies so they look more attractive but you also can be honest because you're there's nothing there's nothing to protect.

Speaker 1 You don't have to,

Speaker 1 there's nothing ventured, nothing gained. So if a woman says, you know, do you like children? You can go, no, I really don't.
Let's get that out in the open. It's not enough.

Speaker 1 But if you're in a relationship for a year and a woman says, do you like children? You better not say no.

Speaker 1 You better be like, yeah, I do. Maybe not in the next few years, but yeah.

Speaker 1 You're always protecting more the deeper you are in a relationship. You know, do you find that woman attractive? No.

Speaker 1 There's no other attractive woman but you. That's something you say in a relationship.

Speaker 1 What? Too cynical?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't.
That doesn't resonate at all with me.

Speaker 1 Come on. You must know what I'm talking about.
I don't relate to it. No, I don't really.
So there was no jealousy at all in any of your... Oh, God, yes, it was jealousy.

Speaker 1 But the thing about that you always tell the truth in the beginning and then you start lying later on. More, yes.

Speaker 1 More.

Speaker 1 You lie at the beginning too, but

Speaker 1 just more later on because you're more walking on eggshells. You know, you've had fights about.
That's true. That's yeah.
Because

Speaker 1 you've had fights. You realize that you're this isn't going to work and you have to leave, but you don't say it right away because you have to think about it more.
So, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The leaving is usually the part that's a relief. It's that last period when it's not working.

Speaker 1 It's hard because you've put down roots to break off, but you kind of both know it's not trending in the right direction. So you take steps to, you know,

Speaker 1 get back on track. But as long as you're just taking steps, it's already over.

Speaker 1 If it doesn't come free and natural, I feel like.

Speaker 1 I always know when the end is nigh

Speaker 1 because I always have the same fantasies.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he dies.

Speaker 1 I have arranged in my head more funerals

Speaker 1 for boyfriends and husbands. How do they die?

Speaker 1 Well, it's

Speaker 1 falling from a cliff, a balcony. Something natural.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Something Putin-esque. I don't really think about how it happened.
I just think about, well, I don't have to worry about that anymore. Right.
Yeah. Is that awful? Well, it's not awful.

Speaker 1 And yet I remain friends with all my exes. It's very common because

Speaker 1 somebody was arguing with me recently about relations. What do you know? You've never been married.

Speaker 1 I said, no, I've never been married, but I bet you have something very key in common with all married people, which is that

Speaker 1 there are times in the relationship when

Speaker 1 your partner is, you know, they're about to get on a plane you're not with them and

Speaker 1 exactly yeah

Speaker 1 and when i think that i feel very guilty about the other 200 people on the plane who will have to die so that i can be happy again but i'm sorry that's the way it's going to be but yeah that would solve a lot of problems if the plane went down and that's when you know maybe this relationship maybe it's over here

Speaker 1 Well, I... Speaking of over,

Speaker 1 I have to go to,

Speaker 1 I'm going to a Rufus Wainwright concert. Oh, my God.
You are so.

Speaker 1 You are so badass. You're going to a Rufus Wainwright concert now.

Speaker 1 Wow. And I don't know what time it is in this.

Speaker 1 That man's cave where we are. Yeah, it's 6.45.
What time do you have to be there? I have to go now. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, we're going to hold you another second.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I got you these flowers. I've never gotten flowers for anybody on this show.
Thank you. Or do anything.
But

Speaker 1 I am really tired. Give me your hand.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 I was hoping I really wanted a bouquet. Like I was going to give it to you my promise.
Maria Callis. But this is what they got.

Speaker 1 It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 So many of your minions will carry it for you. And I will treasure it.
I'm living in a hotel. Why? Because there's mold in my house.

Speaker 1 I've been there since June. That's so important.
And I probably won't move in until January. I will have spent more than almost a year in a hotel.
This is going to be great.

Speaker 1 This is going to brighten up my hotel room. I like a hotel room, I got to say.
It's not the worst thing in the world. It's not the, no.
I mean, I'm sure it's not the Motel 6.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 it's,

Speaker 1 you can walk to everywhere. I'm smack dab, you know, it's good.
Just give me the key.

Speaker 1 Remember in the old

Speaker 1 hotel and they would, you know, have the guy come up to the room and they would give the key.

Speaker 1 Now they don't have keys.

Speaker 1 All right, Jane, I will leave you and release you back into the wild.

Speaker 1 Look at your shoes. Yeah, those are cool, right? Yeah, they're very cool.
I know. No, you're great.
And you've got

Speaker 1 figure. So do you.