Nightcap Hour 1: Saints in trouble + Shedeur still 4th string?!?!?!

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Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap.

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So, Ocho, let's jump right into it.

New Orleans.

Boy, y'all in a heap of trouble.

Spencer Rattler.

So if you just take that

R and put a D.

Saints fans.

That's what y'all got to look forward to.

And the preseason open to despite throwing a pick six, rookie Tyler Shook comes off the bench and outplays Rattler.

If you can believe that, it's kind of like getting bit by a water moccasin or a rattlesnake.

It's just how close are you to anti-venom?

I mean, both are going to hurt.

Both are going to

excruciating pain.

Swelling will be immediately.

Shortness of breath.

That's what you get with these two quarterbacks.

I don't know why they didn't.

I hope Kellen Moore, who's a Super Bowl winning offensive coordinator, I hope he signed a long, long, long-term deal.

Like six years.

Because it's going to be a while with those two quarterbacks before they win.

Safe quarterback in the first preseason game.

Rattler was 7 of 11, 53 yards, zero touchdowns, zero interception, but he did lose a fumble.

Tyler Shuck, 15 of 22, 165, one touchdown, one pick, six.

What do you think?

Go ahead, OJ.

Listen, while I was watching the game today,

before the game started, I threw out a tweet to Saints fans.

I have a lot of Saints fans that follow me on Twitter, excuse me, that followed me on X.

And the question was: Are you guys optimistic about Spencer Rattler as quarterback number one?

And all the answers were unanimous in saying that they don't believe in him.

And there were a few that said, you know what,

I'm optimistic about him.

He can improve in his second year.

So based on the small sample size, we were able to see from Spencer Rattler today, it didn't look promising.

But again, it is a preseason.

It is a preseason.

Maybe a little rusty.

First time out against competition outside of yourself.

So I want to give him a little grace.

I want to give give him a little grace.

Tyler.

But he's not a rookie.

I know what you mean.

I know what you mean.

He started real games last year.

I would expect him to look a little better

the second time around in a vanilla type game plan than a rookie, than say Jackson Dart, say Shador Sanders, say some of these guys, even Shook.

Okay, if Shook's going to struggle, okay, I get that.

He's a rookie.

First time playing in the NFL.

Not a guy that started games in the NFL to play that.

I mean, listen, it looked rough, but last year, watching Spencer Rattler, he played bad at times, but at times he showed flashes of what he can do.

What we have to find, he has to find that happy medium, that keel of balance, of consistency, where it doesn't drop below the bar.

The standard has to be the standard of consistency.

He hadn't found that yet.

Obviously, I'm not going to panic.

I'm not saying I'm a Saints fan, but just for his sake, I think quarterback number one is Spencer Rattler.

I don't see a rookie beating him out.

Obviously, it looked good.

Tyler, how do you say pronounce his last name?

Tyler Chuck.

Obviously, probably going against the threes and the four.

Once he did get into the game, you would look a certain way.

You would look a little better in that manner.

But I think Spencer Radler is the answer for them.

And

it's unfortunate.

But again, it's a small sample size.

I wouldn't panic right now, being that everything is so vanilla.

But the fact that it is vanilla, you should look to par.

You should look to par with it being your

second year

yeah

i think the thing is was

for me spencer rattler's style of play will eventually get him cut and a coach fired

that's what happens when you're not consistent at that position yeah

because that position gets coaches fired quicker than anything get general managers terminated quicker than anything

now they felt comfortable enough they're like okay we're gonna wait till the i think they got shook in the second round, second or third round.

They're like, we like Spencer Rattler.

They like him.

He was a highly sought after guy.

Went to the University of Oklahoma.

You know, and then Caleb Williams came.

He transfers, goes to the University of South Carolina.

So he has some arm talent, but he's just a little inconsistent for my taste.

And it's hard to win when you don't get consistency out of that position.

Because eventually it will get him cut and it'll get the coach fired.

Because we have Richard Smith used to tell us all the time he says that type of play will get you cut and get me fired yeah

I can't get any better because all I can do is just give you what you should be doing it's incumbent upon you he's kind of you know loose with the ball uh it is easily knocked out of his hands he turns it over but this is what the saints he look

What happened was, is that they had when you have quarterbacks like Breeze and you have quarterbacks like Manning and you you have quarterbacks like Brady, you don't want to waste the guy.

So you picking guys in the fourth or fifth round and you're letting them sit with no chance of getting, you know, not doing anything.

And so when those guys move on, now you got to rush.

They tried Jameis.

Jameis tears his knee.

They tried Taysom Hill, but I never thought Taysom Hill was a quarterback.

He was very good in the role that he was in as a jack.

He'll play a little quarterback.

He'll a little fullback.

He could play some tight end.

He's good on special teams.

He's a jack, do a lot of a multitude of things, but I didn't think he was a specialist or a great quarterback.

So I never thought that experiment was going to work.

I think Jameis could have been good, but Jameis towards me.

And then

they kind of moved on from Jameis.

The way I look at it, I think defensively, they might be a little, you know, they might be a little better.

They're starting to get a little older.

Honey Badger retired.

Jordan, Cam Jordan,

I think he's going into his, what, his 15th season?

He was in that 2011 class with Von Miller and J.J.

Watt, all those guys.

But

in that division, you got to get them better because

Tampa's gotten better.

I think Atlanta's gotten better.

And so

I just don't believe that the quarterback that the Saints want or needs, that can get them to where they want to be, a consistent team, you know, a team that wins consistently, that can get to the playoffs and maybe win a game or two in the playoffs i don't believe that quarterback is on their roster i i don't i don't think so either i i think heavily i think for the sake of spencer rattler i think the fact that he has alvin kamara to take some of the pressure off of him you have rashid shaheed you have chris olave i'm not sure who the number three will be there obviously but i think his job will be a little easier because of the talent he has around him chris olave is a very, very good receiver.

Rashid Shaheed is a burner.

He's a very, very good receiver.

Now, it's going to be Kellen Moore to put those players in positions to be able to make sure Spencer Rattler doesn't get him fired.

You know,

there's one thing you can do is when you have a quarterback as bad as them based on their play, you have to find a way to hide their weakness.

You have to find a way to hide their weaknesses.

And it's easy to do when you have players of that magnitude.

Alvin Kamara is still one of the best in NFL, despite.

I'm just not going to let Kamara beat me.

I'm going to make Spencer Rattler throw the football.

But listen, that's the thing.

If you're going to go into games saying, you know what, I'm going to make Spencer Rattler beat me, I like his chances with Chris Olave and Rashida Heed.

I like it.

I like it.

What was their record last year?

Oh, shit.

Oh, but, hey, you know who the number three is?

Brandon Cooks.

Come on, man.

Come on, man.

I don't think

he's not the Brandon Cook that was first in New Orleans or the Brandon Cooks that was in New England or even the Brandon Cooks that was at the Rams.

I mean, think of Ocho Damn, he's been like

four teams in the last four years.

He can still run, he can still

run, he can still

do his thing in a slot.

You know, he's easy.

I hate using the word serviceable, but you can put him in position to make plays.

Right.

That's it.

No, what with their record last year?

The Saints.

I mean, the offensive line, how good is the offensive line going to be to be able to protect him?

I mean, they gave up five sacks today.

They were five and 12 last year, Joe.

That's tough.

That's tough.

Look,

everybody's running vanilla.

Vanilla offense, vanilla defense, vanilla special teams, and nobody's showing anything.

Nobody's trying to put anything on tape that's going to be extraordinary.

Spencer Rattler, having played, I just expect, it's kind of like a second-year guy.

A second-year guy makes mistakes.

The coaches are going to be hard on him because he's already gone through this the previous year.

Bro, you've already, if Spencer Rattler played in real games, sometimes, Ocho, guys get on the practice squad, they don't get off that, and then they come back and have to go through the thing again.

But Spencer Rattler has been in meaningful ball games, he's actually played in a regular season and played in regular season games.

So, I would expect him to look a little sharper than what he did.

Now, he was only in, I mean, he only threw seven passes, and so he's probably only in there 14, 15 15 plays.

The question is long-term, because that's what that's what we get down to.

Because

Baker Mayfield is Tampa's long-term solution.

Atlanta believe

Pennix Jr.

is their long-term solution.

Bryce Carolina believes Bryce Young is their long-term solution.

The question is, now, based on what they did, now maybe they believe Shuck is going to be able to come in and unseat Spencer Rattler and be their long-term solution.

But in order to win at this level, at that level, in today's game, you got to get a quarterback.

Because you know why, Ocho?

Because he's the one position that you cannot hide.

Yeah, well, yeah.

If I got a weak corner, I roll coverage.

If I got a weak safety, I keep him out.

I put his ass down in the box.

I keep him out of the hole.

Okay, if I got a, if I got an offensive lineman, I'll slide protection.

I'll chip the back.

I'll say, hey, you make sure you chip your way out.

So I can find ways to protect a weakness if it's something other than a quarterback.

You can't hide the guy that has the ball every single time.

You're right, but

I like that you said that.

For some reason, I'm thinking from an offensive perspective, thinking as myself as a receiver and the quality, the quality of receivers they have, you know, in New Orleans.

I'm thinking Chris Olave, Rashid Shahid, Brandon Cooks, they're so good.

I can't remember remember the titan's name.

He's a very good service of Titan as well.

I can't remember his last name, but I'm thinking that they can be put in positions to be able to hide the weakness that Spencer Rattler may have, whatever it may be.

That's what I'm thinking.

That's my thought process, you know.

And as an officer coordinator, whoever the officer coordinator is, I'm not sure if Kellen.

Kellen Moore, the head coach.

Remember, he's the officer coordinator.

He's called the players too.

Oh, man.

Listen, man.

Listen.

I don't want to lose my job.

so what do i need to do

i need to use those around me i need to use those weapons put them in advantageous positions because my quarterback is not as good as i'd like

right jawan johnson and taysom hill are the tight ends jawan johnson hey he nice

a young young young young young fella be making plays yeah he's more he's he's he's he's he's more of an f um more of the h-back type got you know got receiving skills got a

more of a move tight end.

Taysom Hill is the same thing.

You can do a lot of different things with Taysom Hill.

You can put him at fullback.

You bring him in and run the tush-push with him.

You can throw him the football.

You can do a lot of things with him.

And Kelly Moore has a very creative mind,

but you've got to get consistent play from the quarterback position because it's the one position you can't hide.

Eventually, I'll figure you out and

I'll make him beat me.

I'll make him beat me.

And I'll see if he can do it.

Hey, that's tough.

That's tough.

Yeah, it is.

The fact that I asked that question and 90% of the Saints fans were like, eh, it's going to be a long year.

We might win four games.

Hey, we won five last year.

We still haven't addressed the position that is the most important that we do need.

And obviously, it took Tyler Shuck in, what, second round?

I think

it took him in the second round.

No, it might have been 40th overall, Coacho.

40th overall.

So I'm assuming I'm not sure what they saw on film from him, as opposed to what we saw on film from 12.

But listen, that conversation is like beating the dead horse.

They saw what they saw.

I'm not sure what the scouts were and felt he was.

So

maybe he is.

Maybe he is.

We'll find out.

Yep.

The Dolphins rookie Quinn Ewers struggled in his preseason debut.

He was 4 of 16, 63 yards, zero touchdowns, zero interceptions, two sacks, two loss fumbles.

Ewers

afternoon

did not do anything to create a possible position battle between himself and Zach Wilson, who went five for nine as the primary backup, Ojo, because Wilson was five of nine for 96 yards.

When we go back and look at Ojo, which rookie impressed you the most this weekend?

Shadur Sanders

was 14 of 23, 138, two touchdowns on the road.

Cam Ward, five of eight, 67 yards.

Jackson Dart, 12 of 19, 154, 1 touchdown.

Jalen Millro, 6 of 10, 61 yards.

Tyler Schook, 15 of 22, 165, 1 touchdown, 1 inception.

Cam Miller, 76 of 7.

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76 yards of a touchdown.

I mean, listen, everything we saw from the rookies, you know, this, this, uh, this past weekend, obviously the one that impressed me the most is the one that had the most time, had the most time to be on the field, and that was Shadur.

Obviously, he impressed me the most.

What we saw from can cam warden in such a short amount of time he looked good he was wheeling and dealing look very comfortable at the quarterback position and outside of that everyone was fair everyone was fair and in no scenario and no scenario did i would did i did i think that ken vers would beat zach wilson out of his out of out of his job i didn't think that i know zach is probably going to be quarterback number two and if things aren't going well and and and tula gets hurt I think Zach Wilson would be able to come in and make the plays necessary based on what we saw from him at the Jets.

Always running for his life with that old line which is the same thing that happened to aaron rodgers i think he he will be fine um the the other quarterbacks tyler shuck yeah it was nice but again you're going against three and four is that really a tail tall a how did my grandma say it

a tail tall is that a tail yeah yeah yeah based on on what you're going to get again it's so it's such a small sample size from everybody and what we're doing it really doesn't say much until the bullets are flying for real when the bullets are flying for real and teams are scheming and they're game planning, now that's a whole different ballgame.

I thought Jackson Dart looked good.

He looked nice.

Yeah, he pushed the ball down the field.

Jalen Murrow, flash potential.

You know, he has a big-time arm, OJo.

He has incredible legs.

He just got to get a little better with his consistency and touch,

things that you can work on.

But I agree with you.

I think the thing is that we wanted because, but all these other guys have gotten major reps.

You got to realize your dura didn't get major reps.

No, no, no.

So now,

but the mental reps that he was taking in the game, that was able to help him process and do the things necessary in order for him to have the type of performance that he had.

Now, I'm hoping this week, they play probably at home.

He gets an opportunity to consolidate that.

You know, in tennis, when you break a serve, they say, let's see, can you consolidate it when you break something, when, you know, when you hold your own serve so you consolidate it let's see if he can consolidate that what he did on uh friday night what he was another performance on what he can do you know when they play thursday or friday ash

so if he can consolidate that i think you know cleveland can look and says okay i think we have a guy that has the right mental makeup because you have to be

incredibly strong-minded in order to play that position on the thing about it i'm glad you said that they play again thursday you said right

they play saturday play saturday now what happened what happens i'm curious to see how stefanski and

they work the players back in so when kenny pickett is healthy when dylan gabriel is a dylan gabriel is healthy what do they do then at that point does shador go back down to to number four when when they're back healthy how does it work ask yourself what we just talked about ocho we talked about this

When Dylan Gabriel was in, at any point in time in training camp, did he look as good as he should do do or look Friday night?

At any point in time,

it's a simple yes or a simple no?

I don't, I don't think so.

And before Kenny Pickett got hurt, at any point in time, did he look as good in

camp or you know, mini camps, OTAs, joint practices?

If he made it that far, because he seemed like he got nicked really soon, did he look that good?

I doubt it, Uncle.

So

it's tough, but

listen, they've been playing games, right?

They've been playing games, the political games.

You know what I'm talking about.

I don't need to address it.

They're living in a room.

You can see it clear as day.

So I'm just saying, are they going to play game?

But we're going to find out.

I think I'm going to see if there's still going to be some funny business, even despite the way he played.

Are they still going to play that political game?

I'm curious.

I'm just curious to see.

Now, if they do play Saturday, now let's see what happens.

Is Dylan Gabriel going to be healthy?

Is Kenny Pick going to be healthy?

Are they going to get the chance to prove themselves?

I'm just, I'm, I'm really curious what's going to happen Saturday.

Oh,

NFL insider says Shadura Sanders still stands behind Dylan Gabriel for the Browns coaches.

Gabriel is ahead of Sanders in the eye of the coaching staff, but rarely in training camp has that position matched what we've seen on the field.

The quarterback situation remains the story of camp, and

Sanders is settling in to lead three scoring drives in the most extended action of the summer won't make the team's consistent stance that Sanders is fourth in a line any less perplexing.

No reasonable person thinks Sanders will be fully ready to lead a team and consistently attack a complicated defense three weeks from now.

He's shown enough talent and growth, however, to make anyone believe he should be on the team and has a chance to develop into a starting quality player.

Sanders is talented.

His throw out of the end zone to wide receiver Greg Labardin in the preseason opener and his floater down the sideline to receiver Luke Floria later are proof.

Until we see Sanders get practice reps with the number one offense, we can't believe the Browns view him as having much of a shot to be the number two when the season began.

I agree with what they're saying, but that's my point is,

okay, you said,

have we seen enough?

Have you seen enough of Dylan?

What have you seen from Dylan Gabriel to make you think he can be number two?

Did you hear?

Did you, who the, excuse me, who wrote that?

The Browns Athletic Insider.

The Browns Athletic Insider.

The Browns Athletic Insider, right?

So you see Shadur do what he does.

Three quarters of football.

Yes.

Three, I think, maybe, maybe he played well into the fourth quarter, right?

So in a live game, you saw him play the way he played and still questioned if he can do the same thing when he has the actual starters at his disposal.

I'm confused.

My thing is, he says no reasonable person thinks Sanders will be fully ready to lead a team and consistently attack a complicated NFL defense three weeks from now.

What about Dylan Gabriel?

Has he shown you enough to make them believe that three weeks from now, he can lead this team against a complicated defense?

I digress even further.

Has Kenny Pickett ever shown you

that he can lead a team against a complicated defense?

Because all I know is what I keep hearing is what you're telling me what he can't do.

Like my coach just say in college, but hey, we'll put it, find something that he can do.

See, you keep telling me what should do or can't do well your job as a coach is to put players in position and find something that they can do but where's the can't coming from when we just saw him do it i know it's a small sample size it's three quarters of football but everything you said he can't do he just did matter of fact he just did what we already saw him do at jackson state he just did what we saw him do at colorado

We just did, even though it's a small sample size.

Uncle I played the game for a very long time.

I played the game for a very long time.

I'm a receiver.

I know what it's supposed to look like.

I know what it looks like when there's a quarterback that's playing in a game and he's confident.

He's polished.

His pocket presence, his mannerisms.

I know what it should look like.

We've seen Kenny Pickett with the Steelers.

If he was the answer for Cleveland, he would have been the answer in Pittsburgh.

No disrespect to him.

What's the question you're asking?

Because

if Kenny pickett is the answer i need to know the question did he play for the university of pittsburgh yes

i i don't you know what i don't i don't know what more i don't i i don't know what more listen when you when you when you fill out your resume right when you fill out your resume yes and you go in for that job interview you want to put your best foot forward you want to leave a lasting impression Well, the lasting impression is what we saw Friday night from the person they claim is fourth, is the fourth string quarterback.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now, what do we do?

We build from that on Saturday.

Well, you build from that.

No, you build from that starting in practice by giving him more reps, more quality reps.

You don't leave him in the position that he was in where he's getting a handful of reps with the threes and fours.

You give him some opportunities with the ones, with the twos.

I'm not saying he has to take five, six reps with the ones, but I'm saying you sprinkle, maybe you give him one or two reps.

Maybe you give give him three or four reps with the twos i do agree with this until we see sanders get practice reps with the number one offense we can't believe the browns view him as having much of a shot to be number two when the season began true i do i do agree with that statement you're not going from four to two if you four training camp then all of a sudden the season start you're number two okay

they're going to need to see you with the ones and twos to feel comfortable Because they got to make a decision.

And when you make that decision, you release somebody, ain't no guarantee that you're going to be able to bring them back and put them on your practice squad.

Somebody might sign them and put them on the active roster.

So that's the case, OJo.

Do I stay on your practice squad for say 25,000, 30,000, or do I go somewhere and get an opportunity to get a real roster spot and make almost a million dollars a year?

So that's the question that you have.

That's a decision that you make when you release these guys.

Because I'm sure there are some guys, you know, I would love to have him have another year learning our system.

And when we come back next year, having

the OTAs, the training camp, the season of working scout team stuff, when we come back for OTAs, Ocho, he should be good to go.

He should be fully developed and good to go.

So, I don't want people thinking that we're beat Ocho and I'm beating up on Zach Jackson.

I agree with what he's saying, but my thing, I'm more talking about the Browns

as an organization, as a coaching staff.

Are you,

because the fans are saying you you want us to believe you or our lying eyes

I know I know I know what my eyes I saw I know what I saw I hear what you saying I'm but I see better than I hear

Y'all keep telling us Dylan Gabriel Dylan Gabriel, but we have yet to see him now everything that I see is that now he's you know, she's not better than Shadua for most of the articles that I've been reading and hey people can write whatever they want to write.

So

I don't want to put too much emphasis, but I haven't seen, I haven't read a whole lot that where they said that Dylan Gabriel is better, has been played, has played better or is playing better than she.

What did I tell you?

What did I tell you not too long ago?

But how can look?

I'm not saying no names again this time because I don't want to get nobody in no trouble.

What did I tell you?

And then exactly what that individual said who's in there every day that plays on the other side of the ball and has to see it, exactly what he said way back then, we saw it show up the fact that he's not getting first team reps with the ones or the twos and still went out there and looked the way he did what does that tell you anybody with getting marginal reps to begin with damn the ones and twos ocho he barely getting reps at all

and then stick okay i'll say no more

again

say no more

So you're not doing him justice in practice, but still showed up in the game and looked apart and looked like that.

What does that say?

But we're gonna see Saturday.

And I hope Delene Gabriel gets his opportunity because I would love to see what he does and what he gives that offense and that coach of staff that believes in him.

I'm hoping he gets a fair shot.

I'm hoping he does.

I'm hoping he does.

I would love to see it.

I would love to see it.

I know he's a competitor.

He was great at Oregon.

He was really good.

So

I'm all for it.

Yeah, it's

let the guy, like,

it's like when you're in that situation, the guy flashes.

Normally, when guys flashes in camp, Ocho, you and I both played the NFL for a long time.

We both played at a high level.

Every team that I've been on, when a guy flashes in practice, a guy flashes in the game.

He gets to move up and he gets meaningful reps, more meaningful reps, meaning he's no longer on the third or fourth.

They'll sneak some reps in with the twos.

Maybe they'll give him one or two shots with the ones.

That's normally how it works.

They're not so set in their ways that it's like, oh, we just see this guy as, it's kind of like TD.

I'll give you prime example.

TD was a guy.

TD was a six-round draft pick.

TD was probably like the fifth or the sixth running back.

But every day he made that play on kickoff.

And every day you saw TD get a little better.

They gave him a little bit more reps, and so all of a sudden he'd go from six to five, from five to four,

four to two.

After the first game of the season, TD won.

Normally, that's how it plays out.

Guys show you in the game

because when guys flashing practice, OJo, you're thinking to yourself,

I wonder if he do that in the game.

Hell, Coach, put his hands in the game.

Let's see what we do.

That's normally how it happen.

Wade Phillips, our defensive coordinator,

that's how I got in the game.

He said, Dan, put his ass in the game.

Let's see if they can cover him because we can't.

Dan's like, okay.

They put my ass in the game.

Well, Shadur, I think Shadur showed you something that he deserving.

I'm not saying he needs to, you need to implement him as the starter, the number one OJ.

We didn't say that.

That's not what we're saying.

But I think he's shown you enough Friday to say, you know what?

We might need to give him some more quality reps with guys that's going to be playing on Sunday.

And let's see him facing the number one defense, Miles Garrett, those guys over there.

But let's give him Jerry Judy.

Let's give him Njoku.

Let's see

if he can replicate some of that, what he did on Friday, with the ones today.

That's all we're saying.

Can I say one more thing?

Go ahead.

If you can do what he did without getting the practice reps

in a game

without the number ones around him,

things only get easier when you have the ones at your disposal that are better at the position.

Cedric Tillman and Joku.

Jerry Ju.

It only becomes easier.

It doesn't get

more difficult.

Now, once you're playing against the team that's scheming for you and disguises and does all the stuff, you know, with a game planning for you, okay, that's different.

Then you just have to process a little bit faster.

That's all.

Everything in the issue.

They line up and they just go.

That's exactly how it is.

But Ocho, you get better at something by doing said thing.

Exactly.

You hear what you just said?

You get better at something by doing said thing, but he wasn't doing said thing because he wasn't getting

and still looked the way he did.

But

they don't view it that way.

They, that organization, they don't view it that way.

How?

I don't know.

I don't know.

But I'm guessing

in the direction in which they're going, I'm hoping they're right.

They haven't been right in the 35 quarterback that they tried previously.

or maybe I'm wrong.

No,

I just think I do believe that he's earned the right

to get quality reps with the ones and twos.

I'm not saying that you implement him, that now he's QB1.

I'm not saying he's QB2.

Maybe,

but I think he's earned that opportunity.

I know one thing.

I know one thing.

They better put a statue of Andrew Berry outside that goddamn stadium.

Tell you that.

Listen, I can already foresee how it's going to go.

I already know how it's going to go.

I can already see it.

They're going to continue to play, continue to play, continue to play, put everybody in front of them, continue to play.

And then when his opportunity presents itself, like it did because of injury, he looked a certain way.

You can't deny it.

You can't deny it.

No matter what you try to do, you can't deny it.

You can't,

Ocho.

And Cleveland doing this, sometimes a man can make his destiny on the very road he took to avoid it.

Sometimes you might, they might even have their quarterback, even though they tried to avoid giving him the opportunity.

Come on, man.

On the very road you took to avoid it, you found your destiny.

I just'm not saying I'm general manager.

I'm not saying I'm a player personnel director.

I just know that when guys flash,

go back to Tom Brady.

They kept four quarterbacks that year.

Coach Belichick said that he saw something in Tom that said if he got more of an opportunity,

he might be okay.

He didn't know he was going to be this.

Hell, if he knew he was going to be that, somebody would have taken him in the first pick in the draft.

But he flashed enough.

Guys, you know, late-round picks, okay.

Like, he showed something.

He just, sometimes you just need time.

Sometimes you need more opportunity.

You know,

looking at Trey Lance, Trey Lance, like,

he needed time.

Time, which the 49ers didn't have.

The 49ers are on the clock.

They got to win now with the roster that they have.

They're not in rebill.

Well, the Cleveland, what do you are?

I mean, you just gave a guy $140 million.

He's under the assumption.

Now, he played it both ways.

You know, I want out.

Y'all not winning.

Got this money.

Hey.

But

what are y'all doing?

Are y'all in rebuild or are you trying to win?

Because y'all see who is in y'all division.

Quarterbacks.

Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow.

Now, Lamar Jackson is 27, 28.

He got another five to 10 years in Baltimore.

Joe Burrow might be a year younger than Lamar.

He's got another five to ten years in

Well, while y'all playing musical chairs with quarterbacks,

they've identified their guy and he's going to be there for almost a decade.

You're not beating a team that has an established quarterback playing musical chairs with quarterbacks.

No.

Uh-uh.

Not at all.

Not at all.

Listen, I mean,

it's exciting.

It's exciting.

And listen, even

a Bengal fan, as a Bengal player at heart,

it's enjoyable to be talking about the Browns.

It's enjoyable, huh?

It's exciting.

It's exciting

for Brown fans.

I mean, when's the last time you had a player of this magnitude who's a rookie that has you guys in the national spotlight like this?

Right.

At all times.

Basically, yeah, you got to go back to Johnny football.

Oh, hey, boy, Johnny.

Boy, Johnny was special, boy.

And at the Texas NM, Johnny was special, boy.

He was special.

So it's,

we'll see.

It'll be interesting to see when they go out to practice today.

I mean, excuse me, today.

Tomorrow,

what comes back?

What type of reps did Shadur get?

Did he get ref with the ones?

Did he get a rep or two with the ones?

Did he get anything with the twos?

Or was he back relegated to being the fourth quarterback and getting one rep with the with the fours or no reps or just getting side work?

That's going to be the tail.

That's going to tell us, Ocho.

Because what they talking

and what's actually happening, we'll find out.

We'll find out.

And we'll see

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Teams are reportedly monitoring Tyreek for potential trade.

According to ESPN's Jeremy Fowler, I've talked to a few teams who are at least monitoring his future a little bit.

Could he be a potential trade target now?

I know Dolphins earlier this summer were telling teams, no, we're not trading Tyreek Hill, but they just wonder, is he going to be available?

It could be wishful thinking.

Maybe they want him to be available, but he's a player when I bring up to teams, hey,

what sort of a trade target you're watching?

They bring up Tyreek Hill.

So we'll see.

He's a big option for Tua, and they would be a major move if they did

move away from him.

So, Joe,

are they, will they, should they, your hometown team you grew up watching, trade Tyree?

Absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

You want a chance to compete in the AFC East against the Buffalo Bills?

You want a chance.

You take away one of the most dynamic weapons in the NFL?

Are you serious?

I love HN.

I love Waddle.

They have some great.

Waddle got nicked in Friday's practice, so he didn't play today.

They have some great receivers also on that squad, but we talk about one of the greatest receivers to ever play

who is still very viable and one of the best in the game.

Top five.

I don't care about that goddamn downseason.

Come on now.

The fastest steel in the NFL.

We talk about trading them.

That makes no sense.

Logically, if you're serious about winning,

I need all hands on deck, the best weapons I can have.

Tua has that.

Regardless of their issues personally, listen, I'm not there to like you.

Everybody's not going to get along.

We come into camp with one goal, one goal in mind, to win games and hopefully compete for them Lombardi in San Francisco.

This ain't no goddamn kumbaya moment.

What do we talk about?

You want your best players on your team offensively and defensively, so you can go out there and compete on Sundays at one o'clock.

You don't trade them away,

not when they're still this good.

What sense does that make?

I think a lot is predicated on Tour's health.

He gets mixed again, they're going to move on.

How they just paid him last year,

Tyree.

If Tour gets hurt, they're going to, oh, okay.

You think so?

Wait a minute.

Wait, whoa, wait a minute, slow down.

Wait, slow.

Come on, wait a minute.

I don't want to help me understand that.

Because if Tua gets hurt, right?

Wait, stay with me real quick.

If Tua gets hurt,

Zach Wilson comes in.

Why would you take that weapon away from Zach Wilson?

who was also a serviceable quarterback?

I don't want him to hurt himself.

You know,

with loaded weapons in the house, you got to be careful with kids that don't know how to handle them.

Zach Wilson don't know what to do with that.

And here's the thing: Ocho, when people's name keeps coming up as trade target, somebody talking.

He said that Jeremy Fowler just said that basically every time he reached out for a name, who should he be monitoring?

Why everybody keep reaching in Tyreek Hill's name?

You know why.

they they he had a down year,

they didn't appreciate how he handled the end of the year, which I told you they were going to be unhappy with that.

Because what he got on his chest, Ocho, he got that cap.

Yes,

you you do things a little different than a normal person.

So even when you don't feel like that, Ocho, sometimes you got to suck it up like, hey, man, man, man, we ain't even got no chance, man.

We're down 31 to nothing at the start of the fourth.

You can't come out.

You got to go down with the ship.

They didn't like how he handled that.

There are some other things that was going on.

They didn't like how he, oh, you got off to a bad start.

Remember the first game of the season?

The police, you know, he coming through the state, you come into the stadium.

Air, you know,

got Khalil Campbell in handcuffs.

They got John Lewis Smith.

You know, it's just like,

is this too much?

And so

I do believe the Dolphins had mentioned that, had potentially dangled him out there.

Listen, you could dangle all you want.

You could dangle him like you could dangle him like it's mistletoe.

You hear me?

And somebody will come along

one of the top five threats in the NFL from

offensive weapons.

That's a dream come true, allowing him to be available.

What do we talk about?

Talking about a team that's on the verge of, you know what, if we can add this to our offense, that gives us another weapon.

That gives us another chance to get that much better.

Man, come on, man, please.

Please, I can understand if he is slowed down or he's not the same Tyreek he used to be.

Man, I just watched young bull run 10 goddamn one.

He ain't even no track runner.

he's a football player

someone that is fast as he is that is dynamic as he is on the field on sundays even when he loses step and when he's 35 he's still faster than everybody else but you know what we're gonna dangle him out there for trade talks huh

He makes our offense that much easier.

He makes it easier for Waddle.

He makes it easy for Tour.

He makes it easy for A-chan.

A-Chan.

Why?

Because they always got to have somebody on the top of that young bull.

Always.

He opens up all the ways.

You've got to convince me.

I know what he is.

Huh?

This is what we want to trade away.

Come on, man.

Stop playing.

We want a chance to be able to beat the bills.

Who gives us our best chance to beat the bills?

Well, maybe just...

the most dynamic receiver of all time in the history of the game that happened to be on our team.

Hell, we can't even beat Josh allen now we talk about trading away what man stop playing what are we talking about

maybe maybe maybe the talks or maybe this will get him to get in line maybe this will get him to stop some of the shenanigans he's doing you know take away his personality why would you do that don't take away what makes him him

i i i i don't know i don't know Anytime there are talks like that, Unc, you know, it comes from somewhere.

I know that.

You come from somewhere.

Most of the time, it comes from in the house.

The call is always coming from in the house.

Jeremy said, but he's a player when I bring up to teams, hey, who is sort of a trade target you're watching?

They bring up Tyreek Hill.

So no matter the team, when he's like, man, who you're watching?

Who you think might get traded?

Everybody thinking the same thing.

Hold on now.

If we talk about getting traded, what are we waiting on?

What are we waiting on?

What are we waiting on why are we waiting for the season to start the trading if that was the point hey you could have gotten him you could have gotten rid of him last year in the offseason during the draft the season get ready to start now he hadn't been through training camp planning well he's not playing the preseason games you could have let him go already so what's the point of the conversation being brought up before the season even start

that makes no sense

Hey, you know, there'd be some trade deadlines.

I mean, some guys right at the trade deadline get moved.

I'll tell you one thing.

The right team is going to get him.

hell i i wouldn't don't don't be surprised he ended up back in kansas city

yeah don't don't be surprised

you see what they got

tyree

rashi rice rashi rice and um what's my dog name

with that what's with arizona man

Oh, Hollywood.

You talk about Hollywood?

Hollywood?

Come on, man.

Stop playing.

Yeah, I

play around if you want to.

You think Mahomes won't be up there?

Mr.

Reed.

Mr.

Hunt, man, go on and get 10 and bring him on back over here.

Yeah, okay.

And Kelsey.

But y'all want to play.

They got Robert Tanya, too.

Yeah.

He was really good at Green Bay until he hurt his knee.

Hollywood Brown probably come on down.

You know, Brown, he from the crib.

I can see that trade.

I'm just throwing this out there hypothetically.

Oh, you want to trade?

Okay, yeah.

We're sending Hollywood Brown down to Miami, so we're going to exchange speed for speed.

That's a, I mean, Hollywood ain't making the kind of money.

Tyreek is 30 million.

Hollywood Brown might be making five, six.

Dolphin general manager Chris Greer said in April before the draft that he had no intentions of dealing Tyreek, but an offer including two first-round picks would be enticing.

Nobody's going to give up that.

Nobody's going to give up no two first-round picks with no receiver.

And

got to pay.

No.

No.

Now,

maybe a

second, maybe a second,

maybe a third of the fifth.

How old is Tyreek?

30?

31?

Is Tyreek a player we can use and worry about the age factor?

I don't, but teams do.

Listen,

Ocho, you know,

they put expiration dates on everything.

They can do that, but this expiration, listen, the expiration date on that one is a little different than everybody else.

I know.

Play stupid games, you can win stupid prizes.

I just don't believe he's going for two first-round picks.

I think if they made, I believe, had they made it more palatable, I believe they'd have traded him to softseason.

If they'd have like, okay, that would have made more sense, either the offseason or the draft.

Yes,

right.

Now we need to pick it up before the season starts.

Huh?

I mean, Devontae went for two first-rounders, what, four years ago?

But how old was Devontae?

Devontae was what, 27 then?

So

it's going to be extremely interesting.

He was 28 at a time?

He's 32.

He's 32.

Okay.

Nah.

Only a quarterback 31 can go for two first rounders.

You'll trade two first rounders for Lamar.

You'll trade two first rounders for Mahomes.

He'll give up three first rounders for those.

Josh Allen,

Joe Burke.

There are certain guys.

And I don't think any of those guys, I think Mahomes will be 30 his birthday, right?

But I don't think any of those guys are 30 currently.

But

it's going to be very interesting to see how this season starts.

Because a lot of times,

how's the season going, Ocho?

We ain't got no chance for the playoffs.

We ain't got no chance for the playoffs.

Let's go ahead and get some draft capital, Ocho.

Let's go ahead and get this $30, $31, $30, $31 million.

Yes.

Okay.

I mean, I like it from that standpoint.

I understand it.

That's how they think about it.

Oh, I know that.

I know the business side of it, because if you're not using the $31 million receiver the right way, you pay him $31 for a reason.

Not using him in the manner in which he's making 31 for a reason, well, that's on you.

That's on you.

Oh, Joe, the Chargers have Justin Herbert doing running back drills.

You've got to check out this video, courtesy of Nate gonzy gotsea god's me

i like it that's something that's something uh uh uh uh jim harbaugh put together

because that's that's that's that's something he would do hey there uh doing doing running back drills

Yeah, going through the gauntlet.

Having a little.

I mean, you know, sometimes, you know,

you know, you come through, oh cho, you know, they, they, you know, you working on your grip, they're going to tug.

They're going to hire type.

Yeah.

But normally they don't have the guy getting up off the ground like the running, but like a running back.

Like a running back would.

Damn.

Now you got it.

But but that's the only thing you, I mean, the guys, the guys, you know, guys tug.

You know, you get the ball.

You're not used to carrying the football.

They go, hey, he's making sure you keep it secure.

But like I said, I mean, normally they do it a different way than that.

But hey, Jim has his way of doing things, and it's kind of served him well because he's won, and it didn't take him long to start winning once he got there.

So, I don't have any problem.

And I'm mad, man.

You got me hot, man.

You got me hot, man.

I'm just sitting here thinking about it.

What you hot for?

I'm talking about, we're talking about trading Tyreek, man.

That's almost as ridiculous as saying, you know what?

They traded Randy Moss.

They traded Terrell Owens.

They traded James Lofton.

So now I'm going to ask you again.

Now you tell me which one of those three guys Tyreek is better than right now.

They cut Jerry Rice.

Now you tell me which one of the four guys I named Tyreek's better than.

I'm still mad.

I'm still mad, and I have every right to be mad because I'm thinking about my dolphins.

I'm thinking about my dolphins and us now.

Listen, in us, in us having a chance for those that say, oh, you a bangle, blah, blah, blah.

Listen, I'm from Minor Florida.

I was born at Jackson jackson memorial hospital i was born at jackson memorial hospital right near overtown at 308 on january 9th 1968.

therefore i grew up watching the dolphins dan marino zonka mark duper so therefore that is where my love and passion enthusiasm being a dolphin fan comes from

so the fact that

he gives us our best chance to compete offensively in the asc's against an animal that they have down there in buffalo new york by the name of josh allen

Up there, but yeah, we know you're going.

Come on, man.

What are we?

What are we talking about?

Are we even trying?

I mean, down there, he'd be playing in Cuba.

I said, if he was down, he'd be in Cuba.

But you answered my question, though, Ocho.

I asked you, I gave you some names.

I said, They cut Jerry, they traded Randy, they traded James Lofton, they traded T.O.

I just gave you four names.

I said, Now, which one T.O.

better than

me, which one better?

They cut Jerry.

Yeah,

You're right, Uncle.

That's just a business battle.

Repeat what I just said, don't you?

You said they cut Randy, they cut T.O.

They cut.

They traded Randy first.

Remember, they traded Randy to Oakland.

Oakland traded him to

New England.

New England traded him back to Minnesota.

Minnesota, I think Minnesota released him and he went to Tennessee.

And then he ended up in, then he ended up

with the 49ers

damn man i just don't say it's icky business huh

godly just just just think just thinking about that man i mean well if you think about it to to was a free agent

and there was some mix up with the paper because he was supposed to go to baltimore oh no and then he backed out

he wasn't going to baltimore oh no i remember that i remember that conversation oh he wasn't going to baltimore absolutely Well, I mean, his name was kind of on the contract, but that's neither here nor there.

That's kind of here nor there.

We'll move on to that.

And then he goes to Philly.

We saw what happened to Philly.

Philly released him.

He goes to Dallas.

He got released to Dallas.

So we're talking about, bro,

the Cowboys, you know, the Cowboys released Emmett, right?

Yeah, they did, huh?

Hey, it's the nature of the business.

It's grimy.

That's why you got to get as much as you can while you're in it.

Yes.

You get no qualm from your boy so i

because we both we both have been on the ends and we know how this thing works

yeah hey

when you when you when you play a professional sport

money and memories you try to gather as much of both as you can

Because it's going to eat.

It's a small window of your life.

The NFL, it stands not for long because it's a small opportunity and the years go by so fast huh you look up you'll be like well god damn i mean you're seven already

yeah

yes yep that's why you got to you got to protect your chicken but the fun but at that ride man it goes by so fast like a roller coaster and you don't even realize it

yep

Pete Carroll was asked today about Geno Smith obscene gesture as he defended his quarterback.

He said, did you see the sign?

Did you see what the sign said?

Next question

well we know what the sign said bigger bus gino or jamarcus russell

was gino and max crosby overreacting

hey

i mean

i wouldn't

That's a tough one.

I wouldn't say overreacted.

Boom, you're talking trash to me.

You got a sign right in my face.

All I've done for you.

I'm back here in Seattle and that's what you think of me.

I laid my life on the line as your quarterback number one for a couple of years.

You know, things didn't work out.

And that's how you think of me.

I'm coming back.

I'm coming back with grace.

I love you.

I did everything I could for you as a Seahawk.

And that's how you feel?

Now you feel I'm a bus?

What are we talking about?

Huh?

If anything, you should be applauding me.

Clap for me.

I know as a quarterback number one, you hold me to a standard

in comparison to some of the greats.

I wasn't Tom Brady.

i wasn't paying manning but i done all i could and laid it on the line for you week in and week out 12

well

it's not even i mean it's not even close to being true now if geno smith was ryan leaf

okay we have a conversation about him or geno i mean him or jamarcus don't do that as a fan like come on man that's not Geno was comeback player of the year.

He threw a career high 30 touchdown, lead the league in completion percentage, and earned back-to-back Pro Bowls.

So, by no stretch of the imagination, is Geno Smith a bust?

No, but I mean, listen, fans do certain things to get up on your skin.

You know, you leave a situation most of the time

and you come back.

Some people

let their true feelings show on how they really feel about you.

Now, I understand your lawyer, you might be to the Seahawks, but all I've done, this is how you really feel about me, truthfully, now that I'm not here.

Even if you like, man, don't do me like that.

Yes.

Don't do me like that.

You mean I dated you for

four, five, six, six years?

And now that I'm going, wait, this is how you truly feel about me?

Now that I'm no longer around because I'm of no value?

Yes.

That hurts.

That stings.

So I can understand where the middle finger came from.

I understand, like, what are we talking about?

I sacrificed

you

to make you happy.

On Sundays at one o'clock, I was throwing touchdowns to DK and Tyler Lockett to make you happy.

Noah fant.

A lot of players play for

teammates' respect, coaches' trust, fans' appreciation.

I guess you didn't appreciate me as much as I thought you did.

So it does hurt

it, what you, when you put what you put into it.

LeBron might not ever meet this, but it hurt him going back to Cleveland, considering what he gave him.

Yeah, he left.

But, bro, I did lay it on the line for you.

I gave you seven great years.

Did all I could.

And then you burned my jersey.

You say all these things about

Gino's like,

I had to I resurrected my career in Seattle

all I wanted was to be appreciated I know my teammates respecting me I know my coaches trusting me

does when you put when you put a lot into something

Granny used to say all the time, boy, I hate an ungrateful person.

That irks me too.

That irks me too.

I hate ungratefulness.

Wish Seattle the best.

Sometimes you better be careful what you wish for.

You thought you, I

guess you didn't like

Gino.

Well,

ain't no thing that you're getting

what's his came from Minnesota.

What's Donald?

Sam Darno.

Ain't no guarantee.

He ain't got the weapons that he had in Minnesota.

He ain't got no Jeddah.

He ain't got no Addison.

He ain't got Hawkinson.

He ain't got Aaron Jones.

And he ain't got Kevin O'Connell calling plays.

He got JS.

And

we saw the last two games, right?

Did you see the last two games

he got j

oh so what oh joe what was the craziest sign you saw as a player oh man that's a good one huh that's that's a good one hey oh my goodness

oh my goodness i enjoy those environments too

i i

oh my goodness though the craziest sign.

Probably the old

ochro, instead of ochro sinko, probably ocho stinko.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, most of the time.

And then it's so funny, they would have their signs, they would have their signs, and I would talk trash back.

And you know, I walk up to the stands and talk.

Did you sign one of their signs?

Did you sign somebody's sign?

Oh, we always sign that time.

And listen, and they always say the same thing: listen,

we do this because we love you.

It has nothing to say for the wrong team, but you won our favorites.

And everybody says the same thing.

They don't really mean it, but they don't have a choice but to go against me because we, I'm.

If you really did suck, nobody says the guy that they getting in the game,

right?

It's only the players that's really good that suck, which means you don't actually suck.

That means you're very, very good.

Ain't nobody booing Tom Brady's backup.

They booing Brady.

They're not booing to Payton Man.

The guy,

I guarantee you, if the quarterback, I mean, look, they're going to blue the opposing team, but the loudest booze, let's just say Tom Brady wasn't first.

He was third.

They're going to be looking for Brady because they want to boo him.

You boo greatness.

Hey, I talk about, I love playing in hostile environments.

I love, love.

I couldn't wait.

Listen, playing at home is cool.

That's fun.

But I like people cursing and talking trash.

And all that, that did, that was just,

I was so comfortable being uncomfortable in hostile environments.

Well, y'all, y'all rival, y'all rival was, was Cleveland.

Because remember when Sam White got on the phone and said, don't throw batteries.

You live in Cincinnati.

You don't live in Cleveland?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You got that, that was, that was you guys, because you're both in Ohio.

Yeah, Battle of Ohio.

So

it's uh uh

it's a it's a natural it's a natural rivalry.

Um

I mean, look, there was no love loss before they renamed it the AFC North.

It was the AFC Central.

Um, I think it was still the AFC Central when you got in.

They changed it like in 02.

They went to the for the eight, the eight, uh, uh, the four team divisions.

Um,

because it used to be cincinnati pittsburgh cleveland

uh

baltimore

tennessee and jacksonville we were all in one division don't jump

we all we were all in one division

and then they you know they split it up and then they took jacksonville and tennessee and put them in the south

you know uh we used to be in the Seattle used to be in the AFC West then they went to the NFC West.

But it stays the Chargers, the Raiders, us, and Kansas City.

But

like when you got like the Raiders, you know, obviously the Raiders was our biggest rivals

because

they came in like the AFL together, the Chiefs.

But it's different play.

It's definitely different playing on the road than at

You feel it as you driving in, everybody's already tailgating, and I'm saying, you know what I'm saying?

Oh, Joe, they're already tailgating, and they do it, they throw in the football, they got they drinking beer all like,

how the hell y'all drinking beer at nine o'clock in the morning,

but they, you know, they getting their thing, they getting their grilling.

Uh, Cleveland, Cleveland fans,

I love them, I will give them credit

for as little as they've won in the last 30-plus years.

Them Mofo's show up for every, every

I can understand, OJO, had they went to the AFC championship game or they went to the Super Bowl, and even if they lost, but the way they show up for their team to not win more than what they do,

I ain't seen nothing like it.

Ain't no way

I'm going to go sit out there in the cold, let alone get up and tailgate for a team that's going

4 and 13, 4 and 12.

Oh, no.

I had a special relationship with those Cleveland fans, especially Big Dog.

I'm not sure what Big Dog is at this point.

Every time I do, I'm on here and we talk about Cleveland.

I always curious how Big Dog was doing.

Everyone that sat in that, I think that might be the North End zone.

They show such love.

in a hostile way.

And I made sure to show that love back, even though obviously they're the opposing fans, but I've always showed them respect.

They've always showed me respect.

And they knew, understood when it was game time, huh?

When it's game time,

man, forget you.

We're going to have some fun.

And I remember getting permission.

I think I might be the only person that's done that and been accepting of that is when I did, I leaped in the dog pound.

Remember?

You remember when I jumped?

in the dog pound for that?

And they pulled all that beer on your ass.

So I asked big dog, I asked big dog before the game started.

I say, listen, if I happen to scroll on this end, I want to jump to you.

No disrespect, but let me jump to you.

and he said yeah well come on and do it and lo and behold i you know he one person right yeah big dog yeah one person big big man big man i but there are more people in this in the pound than him listen i scrolled on that end on and i looked for him and i saw him i jumped right to him everybody else around man i smell like beer hold the rest of the game huh it is it did they shove your ass out of the club but listen that was hey that was a great moment for me man that was a great moment you know cleveland brown

yeah you you you wild for that awesome it was awesome.

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