Nathan Lane

Sure, we got blue jeans, baseball, bald eagles, but come on! There's really nothing as American as the burger, right? And there's nothing more burger than the Sonic Smasher. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, this thing is made to order. Hand smashed, angus beef patties, seared to perfection with those incredible crispy edges that make you want to start a slow clap.
You know what I'm talking about? that kind of slow clap

where you're like,

yes, Sonic,

you brought the... is beef patties seared to perfection with those incredible crispy edges that make you want to start a slow clap.

You know what I'm talking about?

That kind of slow clap where you're like,

yeah, Sonic, you brought the Sonic Smasher.

Then there's the layered melty cheese

crinkle cut pickles and onions too.

On top of it all?

On my mind splitting,

try the Sonic Smasher as a double.

Or why not?

God forgive us all.

A triple.

Make the Sonic Smasher

your next new favorite burger

live free

eat Sonic

one thing about the entertainment industry

it's easy to earn a reputation

even if it doesn't reflect who you really are

for example

everyone thinks that Discover

is a card that isn't widely accepted

can you believe that?

I can't stand people who think that yeah me neither those are. Those are my least favorite kind of people.
In reality, it's accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. This is a flawed concept.
99%. Yeah, it's almost all of it.
Yeah, almost, but just 1% away. So maybe now you'll think twice before judging a book by its cover hello unless it's a celebrity cookbook just stay

away from those celebrities can't cook in that case judge you know what i mean whenever a celebrity is making a cake i think that's a bad cake based on the february 2024 nilson report learn more discovery.com credit card hi my name is nathan lane and I feel... It's about fucking time I was asked to be Conan O'Brien's friend.
Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk and lose, climb the fence, books and pens.

I can tell that we are going to be friends. Yes, I can tell that we are going to be friends.
Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, joined here by Sonam Obsessian and Matt Gourley. and man, things are getting heated in here because Matt Gorley just made a suggestion

and you said, because we were trying to think of what do we talk about here up front? Well, let's go back a little further and preface it with that. You always want to have something nailed down that we're going to talk about.
And Sona and I are a little bit more, you know, frankly chill. Yeah, exactly.
I guess the difference would be you two are always saying saying let's just talk about anything because in the podcast world you can literally just talk about anything and hey man that's what happened man we laid out what was happening in the moment which was nothing and isn't that great and everyone gets a podcasty. I come from a different world of thinking about things

and planning them and writing them beforehand

on such shows as The Simpsons, Saturday Night Live.

Boring.

Seven different.

Never heard of them.

Yeah.

Anyhoots, my point is,

I was taking a second to try and think of something,

and you said.

After a long pause.

After a long pause.

Yeah. No one's chiming in, and you said, said well it's windy out here in LA pretty stupid and um yeah but no one attacked you for it we just sort of was like not that that's not it and then blay got upset and blay you said well listen I think that I you always like this podcast to be the best it could be.
I, what I said was, he said, it's windy out. And you said, no.
And then you didn't say anything else. I didn't put him down.
I didn't go after him. That's right.
You just let it pass. You leaned in because you'll sometimes make suggestions.
That's right. And it's a little bit like Whack-A-Mole.
This gray haired, gray bearded Blay sticks up. Whack-A-Mole? Whack-A-Mole where all the moles are Blay.
And I... Whack-A-Blay.
Whack-A-Blay. And I just, I bash you down.
And sometimes I go after you for a while. Yeah, sometimes.
Because it's fun. But you said, if I had said that, you'd have gone after me.
That's right. And I had said that right before I said it, I literally had the thought of, I think this is a suggestion Bley would make.
I don't mean that in a bad way. Well, what other way could you possibly mean it? Well, I still said it, didn't I? Yeah.
Oh, thanks. No, that's a real vote of confidence.
No, I didn't mean it that way. I still said it, didn't I? But I pointed out that the difference is in presentation.
Right. I pointed out that what Gourley did is Gourley quietly went, well, we can talk about how it's out.
And he has, it's a little dry. He undersold it.
He undersold it. He's back from the mic.
And I'm like, yeah, right. We're not going to do that.
And I pointed out to you, Blay, when you make a suggestion, although you have a naturally loud speaking voice, you will never be lost in the desert ever. That's true.
And I will say, hold it. I'm not done.
I'm not done. You don't get the speaking stick ever again.
So what you do is you have a loud voice anyway. You lean into these, are these Heifelwessel microphones? What are they? Heifelwessel? Is that a brand? Are they Steibenschatzes? Dynamic.
Dynamic? So let's get the Heifelwessel. They're better.
These are very, very sensitive very sensitive microphones cardio and what you do blay is you take your whole body you have you're a large man a large powerful man and you lean in and you almost deep throat the microphone and you would have said hey we can talk about how it's windy. And people listening in their cars

would be crashing on the 405, the 10,

all across this great nation.

Cars would be going off.

You know what I mean?

But this is what makes Blay magical

is you are able to do this open hearted.

I had to come at it as like,

I know I'm going to get hit for this.

That's what I meant.

Like, I'm going to,

I think I'm going to get hit.

He's confident about it.

And I have to say, I think Blay, you're the MVP of this entire place, and you make this place go around. Yeah, yeah.
And can I say something else, Blay, in your favor? Oh, boy. Yes.
No, I think it's a great... Everyone's pointing at me when they...
You don't need to point at me when you're addressing... Yeah, stop pointing at me.
It's very aggressive. This is a compliment, but you have an unearned confidence.
No! No, no! That's not a compliment. That's not a compliment.
I don't think you know what a compliment means. Wait a minute.
Isn't a compliment where you really get someone? No, no. A compliment is a nice thing you say about someone.
And you don't qualify it. You just compliment.
Well, anyway, you are, every time you light the fuse and the TNT blows up in your face, it's a new, it's like it's happening for the first time. And you're just like, this should go well.
Blay, you're the coyote who's never learned. You've opened up 700,000 Acme boxes.
Charlie Brown in the football. Yeah, Charlie Brown in the football.
And you just keep going for it. I don't know if you've ever said this on Mike, but you did say once, you're like, I love it when, and you said this completely honestly, I love it when you come running through the door with a wet fart.
And which, and I can't I don't know what that means even now. I don't know.
Why? Like, hey everybody, and then just look at me, and then just I never said that. You did say that.
No, you didn't make my noise. What I'm trying to say is...
You did say the wet... It's out.
You did say the wet for it. He's going to take it out.
You are? You're going to take it out? Don't worry, boss. I'll definitely take it out.
Just drive and drop it. Control-Alt-7.
All I want to say here is... All I want to say here is...
First of all, I disagree it's about presentation. I do think there is...
Do you think your presentation could be better? Yes. Let's try it.
But can I just say it? Pitch Wendy the way you think- Well, now I'm self-conscious about it. It's okay.
You got it. You got this.
What should we talk about? Do it. You guys just sit over here.
The lights are, you know, I feel like I have to lean in to be hurt. You don't.
You don't. To be hurt or heard.
You don't. Because you do get hurt.
You don't. It's a microphone.
Psychologically being back here, don't you think, Eduardo? I've been back there. It's true.
Eduardo, back me up. Don't you think we have to lean in to be part of the conversation? Is that not true? Eduardo never yelled.
Yeah. Listen to that voice.
Listen to that voice. A smooth radio DJ.
Can I say something? I'm going to back up my boy here. I'm going to say this.
When you speak, Eduardo, I am like, oh my God, I want to hear what Eduardo has to say because he has, he always says, you've got a beautiful voice. You're very calm.
You're centered. You're not, your whole tone of voice is not begging for acceptance.
I'm going to back up my boy here and I'm going to say, I I think he's brave I think he knows I think that's true no one knows what a compliment means no no he is brave like a lemming is brave a lemming that just throws itself mindlessly off a cliff those brave lemmings to his point being in the shadows over here yes you don't know it's like a game

of jump rope

you don't know

when to jump in

when to jump out

and you don't want

to trip

and be the idiot

that you know

stumbles upon the rope

he knows

that you're probably

going to shit on him

for his ideas

but he still

will pitch them

anyway

so I think he's self aware

but that's why

I say he's brave

so you know

all I know

is that

the most powerful

salvo in the world

Thank you. I think he's self-aware, but that's why I say he's brave.
All I know is that the most powerful salvo in the world was lobbed at you and it bounced off of you, which is Harrison Ford told you, it said, shut the fuck up, Blay. And Tom Hanks.
And Tom Hanks. Both of the most iconic stars of the 20th and 21st century told you to shut the fuck up.
Yes, that's right. And it was like watching someone shoot a spitball at an aircraft carrier.
I think we should make you two medals of valor for those that you get to wear, you know? It didn't affect you at all. Anyone else would be in the hospital for the rest of their lives if both of those stars had told them to shut the fuck up.
That's right. This is a really, can we please put on the rap light for God's sakes? We put the rap light on like- Wait though, are we going to talk about the wind? Shut the fuck up, Sona.
Shut the fuck up, Sona. All right, my guest today is a Tony Award winning actor who was starred in such movies as The Producers and The Birdcage.

Now you can see him in the new Hulu series, Mid-Century Modern. I'm delighted he's here.
I'm thrilled. Nathan Lane, welcome.
I'm going to start by saying there's a moment that I had with you that is very important to me. And you're not going to be aware of this, but it meant the world to me.
And you've done very nice, very many nice things for me over the years, including doing this amazing thing on our final late night show, which was fantastic. You are what the Irish call a mensch.
But you, just before we started the podcast, you very sweetly came over and you offered your condolences about my parents passing away last month. And it reminded me of this very special moment in my life when my mother came to town.
She didn't come to New York often. She was, you know, pretty much stayed in Boston, but she came to town and the biggest thing to do at that time in New York, it was the biggest thing in the world was go and see the producers.
And I told my mother, I'm going to take you to the producers. And my mother couldn't believe it because even in Boston, they knew that this was a huge deal.
So we went and we saw the producers. And one of my favorite memories of that night is we saw the producers and my mother was not a, you know, she's from central Massachusetts.
She mostly stayed in Boston. She didn't go see Broadway shows.
She's now seeing the biggest thing in the history of Broadway. It's you, it's the whole full original cast, Matthew Broderick.
I will never forget at the end of the show, she was doing that clapping. It's not down here, it's up here.
My mother, who basically looks so much like me, imagine me in a wig, clapping like this. So then we get up and someone very kindly came over very kindly came over and said, would you like to say hello? And I said, well, I'm always shy about those things, but I thought, well, if it's possible.
And I said, oh, hi, Nathan. We went backstage.
Hi, Nathan. And this was the, I mean, literally kings, queens, presidents, everybody would come backstage with the producers every night.
And I came over i said um nathan this is my mom and you said mrs o'brien you gave her this big hug you acted like it was the biggest thing in the world i've my mother was transported into another realm and may have hastened her death that was saying 20 years'm saying 20 years passed, but I think she could have lived another... She could have lived another five.
And so I'm accusing you of murder. No, it is.
I don't know why I ruined things. It was the nicest, and I'll never forget it.
I'll never forget it. It was a beautiful moment.
And you are, I mean, people know Nathan Lane, the famous person from television, movies, Broadway, but you are a extremely sensitive person, probably to your own detriment. I'm thinking, you know what I mean? You're not a thick skinned skin soul.
And in that moment, I could just see what a lovely, fantastic person you are. Well, that's aside from the murder accusation.
That was an incredibly kind and moving thing to say, you know, you know, as as someone who in the public eye, you know, as you you know, especially, you know, when doing a Broadway show eight times a week and people when people do come back, it is awkward because they don't unless they're theater veterans and they understand the etiquette of no matter what, even though it was a terrible show, you hated it. You say, that was the greatest night of my life, and thank you for a wonderful performance, and you leave.
As opposed to walking in and saying, I have some issues with the play. Yes, yes.
You know, there are those people. Right.
But you have to, I think as you get older, you learn to be gracious, and also you have to take the ball and say, I'm so glad you're here and and you fill you fill in and then if they're able to say something that's great but you make them feel good about what they just experienced i mean very often what you want to say is i wish you were here last night you know the matinee didn't go so well yeah you know you've got to make it a positive. But what's interesting is that what you're doing is you've just done a show where you're giving it all you've got.
I mean, yes, Matthew was working hard in that show. But come on.
I mean, you're using your instrument in every single possible way. And then I don't think people realize when they come backstage you're putting on another show for them you're worried about them uh you're making sure that they get what they need which is kind of insane you know well you know you should be taken away by helicopters i mean you're done with a performance yes um you know it's that that's a part of the gig.
You know, and then, you know, yeah, you go off and go immediately to bed. But, yeah, it's, I mean, it's why I wouldn't want to do it.
I wouldn't want to be in the middle of a musical anymore eight times a week. I just, it's for, it's a young man's game.
it's just it's like being a quarterback in my career i always had a real problem with the transition to i'll just curl up with a good book yeah no you can't yeah yeah when you're with that kind of energy yeah yeah and so what would what did you do did you have a trick for, because I'm just thinking, I mean, so many Broadway references. I mean, I saw you before I even started the late night show, I think.
I saw you do Laughter on the 23rd Floor. And I was like, I don't know how he goes to sleep tonight.
Like, I don't know how he. Well, there was just many years of just a lot of drinking.
Let's point out there, if you're out there and you have trouble sleeping, drinking is the message we have for you. That really helps.
You know, I think it's just, look, you know those days when you would go out, if it didn't go well, you would go out and have drinks. And if it did go well, you went out and had drinks yes and you know you could get away with it in your youth yes but that that changes as you get older it's it's yeah you just go to bed a little later it takes a while to come down from all of that i used to go to sleep at 1 32 in the morning sure and uh and yeah it was um wouldn't You'd talk to your wife wife when you i wasn't married at the time oh but i knew who she was going to be so i'd call her she'd say who is this and i'd say it's your future husband connor o'brien and she would say i'm not a fan of that show sure he seems needy um but uh i think what remember the one time i saw you we were at the angelica cinema you know what i know exactly what you're talking about i was like it was like seeing your your teacher you know at the supermarket i was like it's conan and i can see his legs and you and you were with this gorgeous woman that's my wife and uh and it was so i i was happy to see you, but I was like, this is awkward because he doesn't have cards.
He's not going to ask me that question where I have a great bit I wrote. I thought what was awkward is that I did immediately produce cards.
Nathan, I understand you're at a funny thing having the way to the forum. Now tell me, I understand you have a funny story about avocados.
And then I threw to commercial while we were standing waiting to see a movie.

No, my wife and I, Liza, we ran into you. And it is strange when you see someone outside of

the weird, I don't know, bubble, whatever we live in. We were waiting for the movie to start.

I remembered you seemed a little downcast, you know? Have we met? I thought maybe it's me, like Nathan's thinking, oh Jesus, Conan O'Brien, I can't do it. No.
I'm sure I got nervous. Like, oh, I better be funny.
Something like that.

I'm sure it was just.

There's high stakes when you're in a movie lobby.

But, you know, it's so funny because I relate.

There are many ways in which I think you and I could probably relate.

As friends.

As friends. But it's also, I think we're both Irish.

We both come from, we were raised very Catholic, I believe. And I know that my self-defense mechanism that I learned very early on was to just beat up on myself and hate myself.
If I get to me before anyone else gets to me, then I beat them to the punch. And I always kind of sense that when I would hang with you like, oh, I think Nathan and I have, there's a kinship here.
I know you had a, there was alcoholism in your family. I know this is a dark thing to bring up.
It's funny because there was, in my family, because we had, there had been alcoholism throughout the family tree, my parents, I grew up in a dry house, which is a thing you see in some Irish culture, which is they're so afraid of it that you can't even have a rum cake in the house. Like there was nothing.
There was no, you couldn't. So I grew up kind of being told that it will kill you if you get near it.
And it was the way people talk about like fentanyl now, that was how wine was treated when I was growing up. It just wasn't in the house.
And then if company came over, my dad had a little like rusty key and we would open up a little cabinet and take out what must have been the shittiest bottle of wine in the world that he had just capped the last time someone had had a glass, didn't know how to store it, blew dust off of it and gave someone, you know, basically vinegar. Yeah.
There was a lot of ways where I feel maybe we would relate. Yes.
As Irishmen. Sure.
Yeah. The dark humor and self-deprecating that you know and also something that i samuel beckett vibe well you have said every party you said you said i love this quote as we interview with you and you said that you you felt like you grew up in a bad eugene o'neill play yeah and then later you revised that but why don't you elaborate, well, it was, you know, my father was it was an alcoholic, became an alcoholic.
Really, I was born. My mother had me when she was 40.
And not long after, he started drinking really heavily and and essentially drank himself to death. And my mother then sort of had a kind of breakdown after his death and her own mother's death, and she eventually was diagnosed as bipolar.
Then it was called manic depression. It was a difficult childhood in that I had to grow up fast.
I sort of became the adult. My two older brothers were

going to college. They were sort of on the way out, although they were very much involved in helping.
But when I was going to high school, it was just my mother and myself, and she was going through these phases of depression and manic behavior and in and out of mental hospitals. and then uh and and i never really i never really had much of a relationship with my father he died

when i was 11 and it was in and out of mental hospitals. And I never really had much of a relationship with my father.

He died when I was 11.

I can remember saying to my brother, my oldest brother, Dan,

you know, we were going to the funeral and I said, I was upset.

And I said to him, I said, I can't cry.

I'm supposed to be crying now.

My father died and I can't cry. He said, that's all right.
He said, you feel how you feel. And it doesn't, that's not important.
Yeah. And.
Which was ahead of its time, by the way, for him to say that. Yeah.
I mean, this is. And he was not the healthiest guy in the world himself.
Yeah. You know.
Yeah. He, yeah.
He was, well, you know, he was a teacher and he certainly, and he was my oldest brother who got me interested in the theater and reading. And, you know, he became sort of a father figure.
Well, I understand you're taking a trip pretty soon. Where are you going? I'm going to the mountains.
I'm going to Idlewild. The mayor's a dog.
Did you know that? Okay. Mayor Max.
Way too much information. I'm just saying it's Mayor Max.
He's a dog. That's okay.
Well, that's nice. You're going to Idlewild.
It's great. And you know what? I'm thinking about hosting an Airbnb while I'm gone to help offset some of the cost of the trip.
That's smart. Hosting is a pretty cool and unique way to make some money back.
That's right. And people can stay in my awesome apartment, which is full of great comic books.
I have a lot of cool figurines. It's a great place to sail.
Have you seen the movie 40-Year-Old Virgin? No. I should check it out sometime.
Okay. Sounds fun.
But you know what? If you've got 20, 25 goals of travel and stuff like that, this would fit very nicely into those goals, which is using Airbnb. That's right.
Because it's more relaxing to take a trip when you know that you're making some cash on the other end. Exactly.
And it might make you a little more, I don't know, prone to spend a little more on your trip on yourself because you know that you're being responsible. That's right.
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Yeah, your voice changes when you do a car act. I'm trying to become Will Arnett, but I can't do it.
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It's incredible. I'm not saying do that.
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That's good. Isn't that nice? It starts the moment you take off with free in-flight Wi-Fi, so you can stream your favorite show on the go.
Obviously, that would be this show, I would think. Yeah.
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There's this thing that happens, I think it's true of a lot of performers where they they take whatever they've been given and then they realize my experience was i just went down a checklist when i was a kid and mostly it was things i wasn't good at you know i mean literally i mean i remember doing like a mental rundown of what's not going to be uh anything in the athletic field i think that's quite clear. It's not going to be, I'm not really a ladies man.
Me too. So I just keep clicking things off and you figure out what weapon you have in your toolbox.
And you must have figured out at a... you find your group yes you find your the you know

you have to find the person who laughs at your jokes and gets it it gets what you're talking about still looking it's a quest an epic quest yeah but when so you figure out probably fairly probably what is it high school you realize like i like to get up there i like to be in front of people i i think you know honestly i can remember as a as a child like doing they would say i would get up and do impressions i would try to entertain the family and i had like a bad club act and then i was in a you know a grammar school play yeah i remember getting a laugh in that and thinking oh this was like blood to a vampire and And then in high school, I started to do plays, and it was social.

It was... I remember getting a laugh in that and thinking, oh, this was like blood to a vampire.
Yes. And then in high school, I started to do plays.

And it was social.

It was finding your people.

But it was just, I didn't think it could be a profession.

Right.

Nor did I. And then nearing the end of high school, I realized maybe I could.

My brother would also not only encourage me, but he took me to see theater in New York to see plays on Broadway and off-Broadway. And sometimes with classes that he was teaching, he would take a class and I would go with him.
And I would, you know, that first experience of watching the curtain go up and the lights on the stage and thinking, I'd like to be a part of that. I think maybe i could do that yeah and the excitement of just the ritual of it all people quieting down as the curtain goes up and there's you know nothing quite like it do you still i mean after all of this all of these crazy hits of dopamine and success can you still access that when you're in a show? Oh, absolutely.
Isn't that amazing? Absolutely. You don't get, oh yeah, no, this is old.
I'm just giving them the old number 42B. No, I'm here making this multicam, mid-century modern.
And every Tuesday night when we tape it, it's like you feel the adrenaline and you think, you know, you want it to go well. And there's because of that this process, which is sort of a whirlwind process.
And I was saying to someone today, it's really more of a writer's process. It's there.
They're sort of rewriting. this is multi-cam and they rewrite throughout the week yes it's sort of thrilling it's all flying by the seat of your pants but it's also like is this acting or am i just repeating what you said to me three seconds ago right but um somehow it all comes together and but i i i certainly um before we start you i feel that kind of the thing you feel before the thing you as a kid.
Yes. Yes.
It doesn't go away. No.
I didn't realize this, but when you did The Birdcage, that was a big boost, step up. You were doing well, very well established, Broadway, but you did The Birdcage.
But with Robin Williams, Mike Nichols had to talk you into it.

Is that true?

No.

By the way, we do very bad research here.

And your name is?

Your name is?

Jason Alexander.

Jason Alexander.

And I'm wearing the wig today.

No. I thought he had to talk you into it.
No, okay. I'll, forgive me if you've heard this before, but originally, you know, Mike, the great Mike Nichols and Elaine May had wanted to do that, an American remake of La Cacha Fall for a very long time and then finally gotten the rights.
And it was supposed to be Steve Martin and Robin Williams. And Robin was going to play the part I wound up playing.
Then Steve, there was another obligation. It wasn't going to work out.
And then Robin decided, I've just done drag and Mrs. Doutra.
I'm sorry. I've been ignoring you people.
No, no. They're to be ignored.

They are to be ignored.

I can only make one new friend at a time. So I don't know what you're doing with the rest of the afternoon.
Maybe lunch and I can deal with you and your childhood. but um uh so robin decided.
Doubtfire, maybe I shouldn't play the drag part and that the acting challenge would be playing the more subdued character. And so it opened up that role.
And he, Mike, came to see me and laughed around the 23rd floor. And I had met him briefly once.
And, you know, it's like meeting God. And then he came backstage, which he had never done.
And he said, dear boy, I'd like to talk to you about a movie. And I was like, oh, you want to go see one? I hear Conan's hanging out at the Angelica.
He's in the lobby who is this conan and uh can i call you and he did and then so the next day it was this is happening and it's elaine is writing the adaptation and robin williams is going to play the other part and i said so i would i would be the drag queen and i he said yes and i said well that's that's a very good part and he he said, yes, it is. And I said, okay.
And I couldn't believe it was happening. Now, you can cut me off at any point.
No, no, no. I love this.
It's a long story. So, we also kind of did a, he wouldn't refer to it as a screen test, but they wanted to see what I would look like in drag and all of that.
And he made it fun. And I sang a song and, you know, many outfits by the great Ann Roth, the costume designer.
And then I was supposed to do a funny thing happen on the way to the Forum. They were building this around me.
And Scott Rudin called me, the producer of Forum. And he said, he's not going to make that movie.
That's never going to happen. it's never going to work out you know it's uh and he went on and i i and and i had to uh because of the scheduling i had to turn it down i had to say uh you know what i can't really leave these people in the lurch they've been building and and the time frame now that you're talking about i couldn't i can't do that to them to them.
That's a crazy thing to say. No, Mike Nichols.
Yeah. I will not co-star in your film.
So I said, okay, you know, and I told them. And then I would hear from, I would see Mike Nichols.
I was talking about this the other day. I would see him from time to time.
He would, like, once, this was this was afterwards there was a there was a period where there was a period where maybe robin wasn't going to do the movie this is how long this went on and maybe you know he would say how do you feel about billy crystal i'm nobody you know what i mean i would say i love billy crystal yeah why are you asking me you then, you know, one day he came up to me.

We were at a benefit and he said, Robert Redford.

I said, is he here?

He said, no.

Robert.

He said, Robert Redford as your husband.

And I said, well, if you can work that out, all my dreams will come true.

And so, and then, so anyway, finally, I think Robin, itin it was yeah he was going to play the other part and then he calls me he was in ireland and he says nathan and i'm in my dressing room at laughter of the third 23rd floor and he says nathan um i keep i'm meeting people but i think you're the person and i said i said Mr. Mike Nichols, I have no power here.
Perhaps if you called Scott Rudin, something could be arranged. He said, yes.
He's like an evil serpent. Yes.
I don't mean to make him sound like that. No, no, no.
He was, you know. No, but I know what you mean.

He had a, well, an aura, an iconic status.

Oh, yeah.

And so, yes, I could see him.

He's someone who can just say, yes.

He called you dear boy.

Yeah, and it has a power to it.

Oh, yes.

And so the next day, Scott Rudin said, you really want to do this movie?

Well, why wouldn't I want to do this movie? And he said, it means we have to postpone a year. And I said, I know.
I said, I know. I turned it down.
He said, OK. And then it wound up, of course, helping us with Forum because by the time Forum opened, the movie had come out.
And I was not just this New York actor who was, you know, had lucked out in getting this the lead in this musical, but it was always the guy from that film that's doing well. Right.
So it was Jason Alexander, Jason Alexander. And so it's one thing helped the other.
And, you know, so I'm grateful to Scott Rudin, Mike Nichols, Robin Williams. It was, you know, I'm going to introduce someone who was one of the things I always say is a hallmark of a great career is that depending on who you run into in any age group, they're excited about a different thing.

My co-host today, sitting with me, David Hopping,

who's here accidentally because Sona couldn't be here,

he lost his mind when he found out that he was going to be in a room with you

because of The Lion King.

And we were walking in,

and Clay was like, do you mind sitting in today? And I was like, with Disney royalty, of course I want to sit in here. Yeah, we just did this thing at the Hollywood Bowl.
It's good. I think it's it's airing soon.
It was a 30th anniversary. I can't believe that concert of, you know, Jennifer Hudson and a lot of people from the original cast and the new people and people from the Broadway show is quite.
Oh, that's so cool. Extravaganza.
But it was fun to be reunited with Ernie Sabella, who played Pumba, and he's an old friend. And I also think I had some experience with this working on The Simpsons, but people don't realize that voice work, none of it works if it's not there in the voice.
I don't care how good the animation is. I don't care how good the story is if the actor who's doing the voice can't capture it.
And I saw this on The Simpsons. These people are just brilliant who do those.
Oh, yeah. You know, it's Hank Azaria and this whole if it's not there you don't have anything and so to be one of those iconic disney voices is uh pretty amazing yeah again sort of like a you know as a kid seeing those disney films and and and i was i was always sort of fascinated by the voice actors and and uh so to wind up doing that and with a movie that started as something called King of the Jungle.
And nobody seemed to be excited about it. And then auditioning for Hyenas, you know, Three Hyenas.
And then Ernie happened to be there. You know, we were both doing Guys and Dolls onway at the time yeah and he he had gone in first and he was going to leave and he said i'll stay i'll stay we'll get lunch we um and i said well would it be all right if he came in and we read together because it's three hyenas and it'll give me someone to play off of and you know might be fun and and then you know and then, you know, like two months later, they said,

well, we're developing these two, you know, sidekick characters that are the comic relief and, you know, a warthog and a meerkat. I said, great.
My dream. My dream.
You know, and then we started, it was like a two year process and you, they show you drawings and we said to them, well, well, how do you want them to sound?

And they wanted him to be lower pitched and me to have a higher pitched voice but they said you're doing guys and dolls so they should be like Damon Runyon characters yeah you know in the in the Serengeti and um and so Ernie was just doing he does a combination of the no one will remember, a character actor named Wallace Beery. Oh, yeah.
Who used to talk like this. And then also a little bit of Michael Gotso from The Godfather.
Who's really high up here. Your Honor.
You know that. So he does a combination of that.
And I'm just doing a, you know, Brooklyn Jewish meerkat. That old thing.
That old thing. And, yeah, that's sort of how they came to life.
And then Ernie used to, this was the big joke, was that we would, we're doing a show eight times a week. And we go in to record very early.
And, you know, we're tired. And so I'd be having coffee and we're going to start.

And Ernie would just start making fart noises in the middle of, you know, he'd say,

just to make me laugh and get me going.

And then they put it in the movie.

Which is why Pumbaa is the first flatulent character in a disney film so that's literally just screwing around that was screwing to make you chuckle yes you know little you know we improvise they use a little of it i mean apparently i don't even remember half of it but they apparently i said you do you want me to do? Dress and drag and do the hula? For some reason? It must have been a long day. And then they made it a song.
Now here's where the businessman in me says, you need a piece of that. And I bet Disney is very easy to negotiate with.
Hey, Disney. Get him on the phone? Yeah.
You let me talk to them. Okay.
I'll handle it. All right.
I've gotten in with Disney. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's a Disney guy. Yeah, big Disney guy.
I'm curious about this because I have a tendency to squish things down. If things are good, I tend to just squish it down.

Like, okay, well, that was a nice thing that happened,

but let's just squish that down

and put it over here and not think about it

and stick to the work.

And it's sort of kind of a self-flagellating,

again, God knows where this nonsense comes from.

I suspect we know, but are you able,

I would want this for you.

I would want you at this stage to be able to say, wow, God, I've done so much good work.

And I am Nathan Lane or feel some of that.

Well, I think it might be hard for you.

Sure.

It's funny you say that I had my my husband was here visiting and we had dinner.

It was my I had a birthday recently and we were sitting there and I and I said to him, you know, it's taken me such a long time to say, you know, I really appreciate, maybe it's age. I just appreciate, I have a lot of gratitude for what I've been able to accomplish with, you know, so much about luck and opportunity when it and you know

as Ina Garten says be ready when the luck happens and yeah but you you know I the amount of talented writers and actors and directors I've gotten to work with and and it's you know it's I'm very grateful and it's something to not only be proud of, but just not that you're resting on your laurels, but you feel like, you know, I have accomplished something. Yeah.
And that it's meaningful to people, whether it's, you know, the Lion King or the Birdcage or these, you know, huge, that were huge things in my life. And they meant something to someone means everything.
I mean, you know, jumping back to I was in New York doing the late night show when the producers happened. And it was a cultural phenomenon.
Yeah. That.
Rarely happens. I mean, it was a lightning strike, but it was more than that.
It was, there are hits on Broadway, but something happened and everyone agreed that this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in New York City. And it was lovely to be around that.
And then I remembered thinking, oh Jesus, you and Matthew have to walk around and everybody wants a ticket.

Every policeman, every guy who's there to open a manhole cover.

And they're not going to buy, Nathan, that you can't get them a ticket.

What do you do about that?

It was very, the sanitation workers were a big demographic.

But, yeah, you know know that kind of thing i mean like you know there's hamilton and either that was sort of another one yep but that was i think that show was kind of it was about obviously mel brooks you know sure yeah that genius and um but it was also kind of a zeitgeist hit you know you would come out of a long period of the dark british musicals and there hadn't been anything that was kind of a a return to old-fashioned musical comedy unapologetic unapologetic um you know uh you know a sort of a valentine and yet satirical at the same time and with you know arguably one of the greatest comic plots ever conceived yes and so we need this thing to fail which is such a great idea it's just the beauty of that so you, and I certainly was this huge fan of the film. I literally saw the film for the first time in a revival house here in L.A.
and with an audience filled, screaming their heads off. And I was like, zero mostelos.
I've never seen anyone so huge on screen physically and and emotionally, and yet truthful and gritty and just hilarious in the combination of him and Gene Wilder. And so the notion that when all of that started percolating, I started to hear he's writing a musical.
David Geffen is trying to talk him into writing this musical based on the movie and I thought well it is a backstage story it makes sense you know and and then somebody mentioned you know they had talked to him about it and then I was in this was the weekend I hate to mark it this way but it was the weekend Princess Diana died. Yeah, yeah.
And he wasn't my husband then, but my now husband and I were at the Ritz in Paris. We went down to the pool, and in the pool was Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft.
And my husband's favorite actress was Anne Bancroft. And he turned to me and he said, that's Anne Bancroft.
He said, I'm too nervous. I can't swim in front of Anne Bancroft.
He went upstairs. So I said, okay.
And then I went to the pool and I had met them. This is like the benchmark laughter on the 23rd floor.
They came. They had come to see it because there was a character based on Mel in the play about which he said, that character based on me, it's a tissue of life.

Anyway, they were very great.

I loved it.

But I loved it.

Yeah.

Anyway, he, you know, we said hello and I got in the pool, and Ann was swimming laps.

She left, and he stayed in the pool with me, which I thought odd.

And then he swam over to me, and he said,

I'm working on a musical based on my movie The Producers,

and I think you and Marty Short are the only two people in the world to play those parts.

And I was like, wow. I said, that would be thrilling.
I would be so honored. And then, you know, time passed.
He had to write it with Tom Meehan. And then, you know, Marty had just done, you know, brilliantly, Little Me.
He won the Tony. And he spent a lot of time in New York.
Didn't want to be away from the family again that long. And so someone brilliantly suggested Matthew Broderick.
And I thought that's, you know, in some ways, that's a better combination. Yes.
You know, his energy and my energy, as it turned out, it was. And he was, you know, sensational.
And it was the beginnings of this journey that we took together being in the middle of that tornado. Yeah.
And you you think, oh, you know, you know, you'll never the hype. You know, how can you live up to the hype? The great thing, as you said, you know, all these people, it's Barbara Walters and Kofi Annan are here after the show you know you go really it's bishop desmond tutu loved it he's coming up the stairs so you go wow this is o'brien is here alan greenspan yeah and you know it was like people like that well you couldn't believe it but the the people i loved would be like Harvey Korman.
Sure. Coming back and saying, when you did that little piece of physical comedy and you go, these are people who understand what it is we're doing.
Also, these are people that you watched when you were a kid. Sure.
To me, nothing will ever be more magical than when I get to meet the people that I saw. And sadly, there aren't many left, but I saw them on TV and they made me laugh when I was eight, nine, 10, 12, 15.
And if they noticed me in any way and saw what I was doing and liked it, I think, okay, I can die now. It's not going to get better than this.
Tim Conway. Yes, exactly.
I met him. You know, these people you idolized.
Or Carol. I mean, Carol Burnett, you know, came back and she got emotional.
And she said, you know, this reminds me of the old days of what Broadway was like. And it's like, you know, Mel is throwing this huge party and you and matthew are the hosts and it's you know it just was yeah it was that the the especially in the beginning that show you know the the joy of it and the and the the anarchy of it like anything could happen yeah because it had that uh you know that tone to it yeah it's that's kind of a once-in-a-lifetime thing.
No, it's not because I've got a new idea. The sequel? Spartacus.
Oh, Spartacus. The musical.
Spartacus the musical. And I think you're perfect.
Not as Spartacus. No, I'm his lawyer.
You know what? You all can't be called Spartacus. There's a legal issue.
I mean, Mother's Day is coming. It's a special time.
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The orange juice went everywhere. Oh, God.
Flapjacks were flying. I really screwed up.
She never forgave me. Sorry, Mom.
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Well, you know, in... the show Alice is how I got to know Linda Levin but and that was her iconic TV role

how much did you

work with her

well

you know

in the theater

she's a beloved

figure

Tony Award winning

actress

famously

I remember seeing her

in

Neil Simon's play

Broadway Bound

she played his mother

and you know

it's one of the greatest

stage performances

I've ever seen

and

we knew each other

just in passing

you know

I was just a fan

and we

Thank you. his mother and you know it's one of the greatest stage performances i've ever seen and we knew each other just in passing you know as a i was just a fan and we would see each other occasionally and i we'd always say i hope we get to work together someday so when this happened um it was this whole thing has been an incredibly happy experience um a rare thing and uh it's all the people who, you know, Jimmy Burroughs, who's the director.
I've always, again, one of these people. Jimmy Burroughs, one of these guys that, I mean, cheers.
Going back to the Mary Tyler Moore show. Yes, Friends.
Taxi. Yep.
You know, and it's created by Max Muchanik and David Cohan, who created Will and Grace. Will and Grace, yep.
And they've put together this tremendous writer's room with Jimmy there and what they're doing. And then just the casting is everything.
And so Linda was – that's a – I don't know. That's another podcast maybe.
But it's been, it was tragic and shocking and then emotional. And then they took a week, they pushed a week so that they could write an episode that deals with the death of her character.
And also where show is going to go going forward and um and they did a beautiful job and it was overwhelmingly emotional but she was you would not believe she was 87 years old i mean she was just and then you put her in front of an audience and you know she was as jimmy would say she was with a joke she was like a heat-seeking missile she just she was just brilliant there is there is that thing i always heard it um about george burns that when he was you know famously almost made it to 100 but when he was like 96 they said you could wake him up he'd be sound asleep on an airplane and you could wake him up and he could do 10 minutes like because that thing doesn't go away uh-huh you know i mean i know that god knows what'll happen to me but whenever if i'm in a coma and any of my writers come by or people come by and poke me i i will start doing a bit and um then they'll kill me yeah but what is i mean we just that's i think yeah no she was just i mean in general she was a great actress it means she

could do drama or comedy but she was so brilliant this this sort of thing and and um and we just

it's just been a very happy family matt bomer and an actor named nathan lee graham who are

Thank you. this sort of thing.
And we just, it's just been a very happy family. Matt Bomer and an actor named Nathan Lee Graham, who are sensational.
And Matt, who I feel like he's going to be the revelation for a lot of people because, you know, he's a big, handsome glute, but also a wonderful, serious actor. But he's riotously funny.
Yeah. And so it's been it was an ordeal to get through because and then we did this very emotional episode and we felt like we honored her.
And then I started to get vertigo and I'd had it since we've done therapy. I thought we'd now get to the more medical side of my life.
I can do that. I can handle that as well.
I think it's a zinc deficiency. Isn't it always? So I had this about a year ago, what's called positional vertigo.
And then there's a thing called the Epley Maneuver, which, you know, sounds like a bad off-Broadway play. The Epley Maneuver playing at the village gate.
Anyway, and it usually goes away after a couple of days and some Dramamine. So this time, it really hit me.
And I went to an ENT. They gave me a cortisone shot.
But I'm holding on to walls. And you really have my equilibrium really thrown.
And so I Google vertigo. And the first thing that comes up is the Dizzy and Vertigo Institute of Los Angeles in Beverly Hills.
And the pictures look nice. And they look professional.
Never go by the pictures. And I'm like desperate.
So I go back. So I make an appointment and I go back to the ENT the next day.
Dr. Schnittman.
And Dr. Schnittman says, it's not positional vertigo.
And and I said, well, I'm going to the Dizzy Institute right after this isn't real, which sounds like Nickman says it's don't go to the Dizzy Institute like it should be run by Jennifer Coolidge. Exactly right.
And so he says, I that's where I was going to send you. And I said, great.
And so I go and it's a very it's a real serious place. And they were they were incredible.
And they put me through a series of tests like a NASA astronaut in a chair. You go upside down.
All these tests, eye and ear coordination. And and they said, what you have is called labyrinthitis which is a virus you get in

the inner ear and i got it in the left inner ear which was causing severe vertigo and nausea and so they put the ent put me on prednisone and then i had to do a series of exercises and what's called vestibular therapy.

And again, we had to cancel a week so I could get over this. And now we did the taping we were supposed to do last week, last night.
So how are you feeling now? A little dizzy. No, I feel...
I picture when you go to the Dizzy Institute, all the furniture is made of rubber. Like every, you know, anywhere you fall, it's your boy, you're fine.
I said, I told this teen, I ran into Tina Fey. Yeah.
I told her about the Dizzy Institute. She said, you don't want to go to that parking garage.
It's a very dangerous. Crash, smash.
Anyway, it's yeah. dangerous crash smash anyway it's um yeah no thankfully thankfully i i feel great and it's uh yeah i've made a recovery but it was it's a weird thing yeah um yeah it's but it's been it's it's you know my i have a dicey history with the multi-camp uh i the Most people do.
The first one was not my fault. It was Mickey Rooney's series called One of the Boys.
Dana Carvey and I did, I'm sure. Yes.
You've discussed this with him. It comes up occasionally.
Sure. Yeah.
I was the biggest star in the world. 1940.
Yeah. Bang, zoom.

I heard it all.

But that was 13 and out.

And then I did an episode of Frasier and I was nominated for an Emmy.

And they said, you know,

if you ever want to do this,

we'd love to develop something for you.

I said, okay.

They had won the Emmy five years in a row.

We did.

It was not the right fit.

13 and out.

Then I did a show with a writer for uh for cbs uh jeff richmond an old friend wonderful writer from modern family he wrote a show you know did not did not work out uh and no you didn't really get much support from les moonves right salt of the earth les moonves so um so you know i was like, it's just never going to work out for me. That's fine.
You know, I tried. You know, it's a miracle when friends or those things come together that way.
And this time, I have to say, working with, but these are the best of the best. Jimmy Burroughs is standing there with an eye for comedy that comedy that's you know it's incredible and how they're putting this all together and the writers and the thing and you're like i can't believe this and it feels like and i love these people and it's and that's really important at this point in my life yes that we're we're as marty says it's about the hang oh you know they're they're an example on like when I did Only Murders in the Building.
They set the tone. Like you feel good about going to work and having fun and doing good work.
Those are all people that the minute it starts to get unpleasant, they're all going to walk. And you're in that category too.
There's no reason at this point for unpleasantness. I mean, that's why I adore doing this.
It's not a volume business. We're not cranking out.
I'm not talking to three people a night, five nights a week, 40 nights a year. This is people that I love, that I really want to talk to and have a real conversation with and get to know a little better.
And if this started to turn into, oh God, I don't want to know you kind of have to because they're moving. Okay, well, they're being real difficult.
All right. No, there's no reason anymore.
Yeah, yeah. And you get, in this format, you're getting something else.
Yes, this is nice. This is a real, much more real conversation than when you're playing to an audience.
Yes. People are more relaxed.
This is nice. This is a real, much more real conversation

than, you know,

when you're playing

to an audience.

Yes.

You know.

I want to wrap this up

because I have to

and we've gone

much longer

than we normally do,

which is always

an indication

that I'm having

the time of my life

and I have

one wish for you is that I, when I brought up a little while ago in the interview, are you able to own sort of what you've achieved? You said, well, I've been very lucky. And I say, yes, that's all true.
And that's the great perspective to have. But you're also a crazily talented person who has integrity and you're a very sensitive person and you have made this happen and i i just want to leave that little nugget with you and hope that you can hang on to it and then go hate yourself five minutes from now thank you thank you i yeah well will you be my friend no no no just just no i don't see it i really don't see an upside i don't see an upside you know i know i thought i was pushing it but you know no no i was just going by the title of the podcast no it's a it's a fucking gimmick god bless you and thank you bless you thank you so much.
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.
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