Paul W. Downs

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Speaker 2 Hi, my name is Paul W. Downs, and I feel thrilled

Speaker 1 about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

Speaker 2 That's very nice. It's true, it's thrilling.

Speaker 1 Fall is here, hear the yell. Back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk in blues, climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we

Speaker 1 Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I'm Conan O'Brien, joined here by the chuckling Matt Gorley, Sono Ossian.
How are you, Sona? I'm all right. You what?

Speaker 1 I'm all right.

Speaker 3 Oh, I'm sorry. I said that.
I'm all right.

Speaker 1 I think you said, I'm all right. Am I right? Am I right? Yeah, am I right?

Speaker 3 And then I did a weak-ass thumbs up.

Speaker 4 It's also weird how you kind of like turned it towards yourself.

Speaker 1 I don't like it. Everything you did just now was just wrong.
Are you in AI? Yeah, I think you are AI.

Speaker 3 Every time you're like, welcome, hey, Sona,

Speaker 3 it makes me so uncomfortable. And we've talked about it before.
I hate it.

Speaker 1 People get very scared about AI. I have been working very hard to have AI replace you, Sona.
Oh.

Speaker 1 And I have thousands of servers trying to learn Sona's rhythms.

Speaker 5 They've all exploded.

Speaker 1 They've exploded, and they're in these salt mines. I keep them in salt mines deep under the ground in Utah.
And I've spent most of the money I've made in show business on all these servers.

Speaker 1 Oh, thank you. They overheat and explode because they cannot match the Movesian rhythms.
They don't make sense. AI can't figure out.

Speaker 3 She just moves at a different speed.

Speaker 1 Does she?

Speaker 3 She's so, I, me.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're talking about yourself? Yeah, yeah. What do you talk about with the creator? Oh, God.
Oh.

Speaker 3 Can I just say, if an AI came in and just said nothing that made sense, I'd be like, that's a great AI of Conan.

Speaker 1 I know. Yeah, there's plenty of those.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 What do you mean, plenty of those? What do you mean?

Speaker 4 AIs that don't make any sense.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 So good, though. I have friends I'm talking to.
What? These AIs? Do you have a relationship with an AI? I do. My wife is an AI.

Speaker 1 She's a beautiful AI.

Speaker 1 I had to splurge in one area and then scrimp in another.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Look.

Speaker 4 I did have a conversation with a Shakespeare AI once. Like, you could go to this website.

Speaker 1 Okay. Matt.
Hold on.

Speaker 4 Don't make fun of me. No, no, no.

Speaker 1 Let's hear him out. Thank you.
We We need some context for this opportunity. Okay.

Speaker 1 So far, we haven't really hit a gusher, so let's hope this is it. Unless you think I'm some kind of nerd, I only asked him about James Bond.

Speaker 1 So you talk to an AI Shakespeare.

Speaker 1 So you have a lot of free time. That's what I'm getting

Speaker 1 from this story. I'm talking to Shakespeare on AI.

Speaker 3 How did you find that someone sent it to you and was like, oh, you'd love this, that?

Speaker 4 I don't know.

Speaker 4 Something, someone, maybe someone sent it or I heard about it like on a show or something.

Speaker 1 I don't remember. This is like

Speaker 1 early AI days, though.

Speaker 6 Oh, okay, because you wouldn't do that now.

Speaker 1 No, I'm too. I was AI before it was cool.

Speaker 1 You were doing AI back in the 80s. Yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 When it was basically Pong. Yeah, war games.

Speaker 1 Did you guys hear that? Sorry to bust. No, anything, anything.
Yeah. Because there's an old saying here, oh, it doesn't matter what you three talk about.
It'll be good. This is proof that it's not.

Speaker 1 Well, we want to say anyway, because I'm going to have to. We got nothing out.
So you go. Let's start again.
I was just going to say, Oh. Oh, hold on a sec.
Hey there.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.

Speaker 3 We're doing a dual over again.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're going to do it over again. Oh, that's true.
Because you know what?

Speaker 3 I don't want to do that. Guess what?

Speaker 1 Yeah. That was a terrible top.
No. And no.
We can't see it. No, for

Speaker 1 you. Let's do it again.
Do it again.

Speaker 1 No one's limbo bar is lower than yours. You're like, hey, man, it was great.
You guys were talking and there was talking. People love this shit.
Hey, man, go again. Go again.

Speaker 1 Hey there, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. And we're going to get a good top out of this show if it's the last thing I do.
You mean get a good top out of this show? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's the beginning of the show.

Speaker 3 Top of the show, baby.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm starting again because that was... Your instincts today are awful.
Okay. And yours are too.
You both suck. You suck.
Here we go.

Speaker 3 You suck. The fish rots from the head, sir.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 3 Your suckiness is trickling down.

Speaker 5 You rot from the top. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hey, Conan O'Brien here.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. We have tried seven times to start this podcast, and

Speaker 1 the assists I'm getting from my fellow players are just terrible. Instead of passing me the basketball, you guys are tossing it into the stands and then shooting yourselves with a German Luger.

Speaker 1 Matt, how are you?

Speaker 4 I talked to Shakespeare AI the other day.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 you got to hear me out on this. I'm telling you.
Why are you so determined to ruin the top of the show?

Speaker 1 This is important to me. I've always wanted a good top of the show.
I'm sorry. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 It's been my dream since I was a kid.

Speaker 3 Hey, I saw two coyotes this morning.

Speaker 1 Hey, now we're onto something. What were they doing? Wow.

Speaker 3 They were crossing the street and I was terrified seeing them do it.

Speaker 6 It was very frogger.

Speaker 1 That happens every day.

Speaker 3 No, but it was like really heavy traffic and I was like, they're going to die.

Speaker 1 And then I was like,

Speaker 6 do I want?

Speaker 3 No, I wasn't, I was rooting for the coyotes. I don't want them to die.

Speaker 1 No, but then I know they'll turn up. I'm not worried for them.
But they'll tear up.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying, Matt, everything you've contributed today sucks.

Speaker 1 You're throwing in, you're not helping. I'm understanding her.
And you keep throwing these giant steel anvils into the conversation and clanging away. And now you're giving me a wrap, but I got it.

Speaker 1 We're not out of time. No! We're out of time.
No, we're not out of time. We're going to get something good.
So you saw two coyotes, did you? I did. Tell me about it.
Now,

Speaker 1 I'm taking away your speaking privileges for the next year. So, Sona.
Yeah. I'm curious about these coyotes.
A lot of people in this world haven't seen a coyote. It's like a dog-only skinnier.

Speaker 3 You know what? It is. It's like a dog-only skinnier.
And every time I see them, I'm like...

Speaker 1 You're trading my content for this?

Speaker 3 Dude, are you shut?

Speaker 1 Shut up.

Speaker 3 I'm on fire right now.

Speaker 1 She's on fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's got a hot hand, and you keep knocking her royal flush out of her hand. You're off.
And you're playing hungry, hungry hippos in the corner like a drunk idiot.

Speaker 1 Go ahead, Sona.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you're off. I'm on today.
So the coyotes.

Speaker 3 So I'm watching them and I'm like, these animals will kill Okie.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Do I check?

Speaker 6 That's your dog, Okie.

Speaker 3 Do I cheer for their demise? Or do I want them to live? And you know what?

Speaker 1 I want them to live. Yes, I root for animals to live in the wild.
I do. Even if they're coyotes, I root for all animals everywhere.
Man, Sona, preach!

Speaker 1 Preach!

Speaker 1 You were great today, Sona. That was terrific.
We learned about wildlife and about your neighborhood, and then you.

Speaker 4 I'm so glad I seated the floor for that.

Speaker 1 That was really top-notch.

Speaker 3 Oh, also, I spoke to a Shakespeare AI.

Speaker 1 I hate the opening, and I apologize to everybody. I'm listening.

Speaker 1 Hey, man, let's just start talking. And whatever we say will be great.
And Blae will be like, yeah, man, it was really great. Look at all the laughs we're having.
I rest my case.

Speaker 1 We're having a good time. Yeah.
Do you want to start it again and then wrap? Yeah. Hey, and welcome to Conan O'Brien.
He's a friend. I'm Conan.
You don't need to know the rest.

Speaker 1 You're going to love today's show. My guest today is co-creator, showrunner, and writer of an actually good show,

Speaker 1 the Emmy Award-winning series that's thought about beforehand. They don't just throw it out there like a bucket of diarrhea.

Speaker 1 Hacks.

Speaker 1 I'm thrilled he's here today because he actually makes something people enjoy that has thought, structure, content.

Speaker 1 Paul W. Downs, welcome.
You didn't pause.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I'm thrilled he's here today.

Speaker 1 Paul W. Downs, welcome.

Speaker 1 I am an admirer of your work.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Likewise. And of course, I want to shout out your cohorts on hacks at the very top.

Speaker 1 Your lovely wife. Yes.

Speaker 2 Lucia.

Speaker 1 Lucia. I want to make sure you said it first because I was afraid that I would.
Oh. I was looking at like Lucia, but I've also heard it pronounced Lucia.
Yep.

Speaker 2 Lucia. There's a

Speaker 2 it is a tricky one.

Speaker 1 Jen Stotsky. Yes.

Speaker 2 I thought you were waiting for me to say which of the two I was married to because sometimes that is a question.

Speaker 1 It might be a thruple.

Speaker 2 Hey, you're not alone if you read the tweets. You know, I don't.

Speaker 1 I don't, but I've heard. I write the tweets.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm putting it out there that it's a thruple. Hey, from here.
Because you know what? That gets a lot of heat out there. You know, you just want the clicks.

Speaker 2 That's all I want. It's about clicks.

Speaker 1 Hacks is a wonderful show. Thank you.
And I'm always suspicious when a show is going to, and I've run into a bunch of times and

Speaker 1 I remembered saying this to Gene Smart and Hannah.

Speaker 1 I remember telling them when I've bumped into them that I'm suspicious when a show is going to portray people that are trying to create comedy, think of comedy.

Speaker 1 I think usually it goes wrong because, and it's difficult, but if you're trying, if there's a movie that's portraying someone sculpting,

Speaker 1 a sculptor is going to watch it and go, that's not how you do it.

Speaker 1 That's how sculptors talk. What happened to this?

Speaker 1 This sculptor, by the way, was injured. Yeah, I got that far.
A chisel fell on him. A chisel fell from a high height and did hurt his brain.

Speaker 1 What happened?

Speaker 1 I think he's attempting an accent, but it's more of a action. This is an injury.
He's a foreign injury, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 This is not a foreign man. This is a man who's...

Speaker 3 So it's not a foreign man.

Speaker 1 No, no, he was just injured by a horse. He's from New Jersey.
He's from New Jersey.

Speaker 1 I'm an Aggie Springsteen. But very terrible, terrible injury.

Speaker 1 Stupid.

Speaker 1 So stupid. I apologize.

Speaker 1 And the point that I'm going to get back to, which began as a compliment and then turned into probably just a horrible sketch,

Speaker 1 it's almost impossible to do it. And then you guys come up with hacks and I see people struggling to create comedy and then perform comedy.

Speaker 1 And I think, oh, I think that's the closest I've seen to how it really is.

Speaker 1 And of course, that comes from you guys being very talented, but also being still quite young and coming from this world. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You started out, I mean, as a kid, you were making content all the time even if it was just for yourself It was it was just for myself.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there was there was no social media. There was no YouTube.
Thank goodness.

Speaker 1 I think you're 77 years old. That's right.
That's right. That's what it says here.

Speaker 2 There there wasn't even there wasn't even cellular actually

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah, I had the stick and hoop and I was making myself I was entertaining myself with the stick and hoop

Speaker 1 Sometimes you play with the butter churn

Speaker 1 But you

Speaker 1 you were making content and this I can relate to because I don't think I needed an audience If I was in my room, I was doing this shit, and you seem like a similar fellow to me.

Speaker 2 100%. 100%.

Speaker 2 And what an honor for you to say that. But yeah,

Speaker 2 I would entertain myself in the mirror. I wish my son did that because now I have a toddler who needs a lot of attention.

Speaker 2 And I was like, I entertain myself for hours, you know, doing voices, doing voices.

Speaker 1 Is a mirror and delusion. Exactly.
I still have both. In equal measure.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about your creation story. It was interesting to me because the minute I saw you and your work, I thought, well, they're all improvisers.

Speaker 1 And then I find out that you started doing stand-up initially or dabbled in stand-up a little bit.

Speaker 1 And it's interesting because I always knew. I mean, I did early, early on, I did some MCing, but I knew I needed a gang.
I needed either my gang of writers or I needed my improv gang.

Speaker 1 I needed some kind of a squad. That I understood early on.
When did you figure out that that was kind of what you were looking for?

Speaker 2 You know, I, I did, I always, I did sketch in high school. I did sketch and improv in college.
And then when I moved to New York, I, I was like, you know, I want to be a, I want to be an actor.

Speaker 2 I'm going to just audition for things. And, and I'll do stand-up.
I'll try my hand at that because I, I idolized stand-ups and always loved watching stand-up.

Speaker 2 I watched like, you know, Premium Blend on Comedy Central growing up, where there was a lot of female stand-ups who I admire a lot. And so I tried it and I found it really lonely.

Speaker 2 I found it really hard. Yes.
I was also doing a lot of characters and at the time, you know, I think there are like phases that stand-up goes through.

Speaker 2 And at the time, I would say, hey, I have a couple sound cues. Do you guys have tech? And they were like, what?

Speaker 1 They were like, tech.

Speaker 2 I was like, yeah, do you mind if I bring out a wig and a rattle? And they were like, all right.

Speaker 2 I don't think you belong here. And it didn't really work.

Speaker 1 Seinfeld requested none of this. No.

Speaker 2 And now it's so funny because now I see stand-up and a lot of people have PowerPoints and they have tons of tech and a lot of sound, you know. So it's different now.
But when I was doing it,

Speaker 2 for a minute, and I mean a minute, I was probably four or five months after graduating that I didn't do improv. Then I did stand up, found it very hard.

Speaker 2 And then I went to the Upright Citizens Brigade and did improv and sketch because I missed it.

Speaker 1 You get to UCB and there you meet, you start to meet your people. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Not just Lucia, Jen,

Speaker 1 Lucia. I'm changing it.

Speaker 2 It's like Cappuccino. You know, that's how you.
Lucia.

Speaker 1 Lucia. Okay.
I'm Conando.

Speaker 2 Did you just get hit with a chisel? Conando.

Speaker 1 Conando. Yes.
Cornando from New Jersey.

Speaker 1 She's Lucia.

Speaker 1 Excuse me. I don't think they are.
I think they show a great caring.

Speaker 1 It's empathy. These actions are.
I think it's so much. And that's now recorded.

Speaker 1 I can use that at the trial. Abby Jacobson.
Yes. Leonard Glazer.
You start working with these hilarious

Speaker 1 people.

Speaker 1 This is where you start to find, oh, we're all like-minded. We're in a a groove here.
Yes. That's such a magical moment, isn't it?

Speaker 2 It saved me, I think. You know, especially moving to New York.
And I don't know, you move to New York, you have survival jobs. It's really hard.
Living there is hard.

Speaker 2 And finding people that were like-minded, had a similar sense of humor

Speaker 2 was

Speaker 2 huge for all of us, I feel like, you know, and it really, we found our people and started to make things. And the rest of us,

Speaker 1 it is the same thing,

Speaker 1 not just in comedy, but I think for musicians,

Speaker 1 sculptors it's across the

Speaker 1 across the board yeah because I so remember kind of finding some of my group in college and then getting out to LA and doing improv at the Groundlings and starting to find my people

Speaker 1 and you start to think hey I'm not crazy yeah that was the first feeling I had is there were all those years where I just thought well something's wrong with me and yes there probably is but then you find other people with the same issues, whatever it is, issues, malady.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And you're all having fun and you're meeting at a diner afterwards to talk down the show.
And it's few things will replace that joy.

Speaker 2 Yes. I mean,

Speaker 2 I think about that a lot. That, I mean, we still do it.

Speaker 2 I'm so lucky to still do it with my best friend and my wife, but us doing shows and going exactly to a diner and talking about the show or talking about something we'd watched or talking about a sketch we'd seen, you know?

Speaker 2 And it's weird. It is like a it is like a special language that people share, I think, when they have have a similar sense of humor.
And that's not just comedians.

Speaker 2 Of course, it's a deeper level in a way for people that try and do it professionally. But I feel like anybody that you

Speaker 2 have a similar sense of humor with and who can make you laugh, it's just

Speaker 2 such a unique and special thing.

Speaker 1 Now, here's the interesting thing to me, or an area that's interesting, is that you have this

Speaker 1 world of making comedy, jokes, bits, sketches, inside references with your friends, and you're making content at UCB, you're putting stuff up, you're having fun.

Speaker 1 And then at some point, if you're very fortunate and also good at what you do, it turns into a business and pressure is applied and expectations are applied.

Speaker 1 And there are budgets, and there's a lot of people around looking at you and saying,

Speaker 1 hey, what's going on today?

Speaker 1 And I've always found it interesting that it's the one of the challenges is to make sure you still keep the joy in it. Yeah.
When that is applied, and when I think about hacks, this is a big show.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I drive around LA and there are giant buildings that are just dedicated.
They've been painted over the windows.

Speaker 1 People can't see out the windows anymore because Gene Smart's face has been painted over.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's a children's hospital.
These poor, sick people. They need light.
They can't. And they're operating in the dark.
There's no vitamin B. Because a giant and an Einbinder.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's terrible. What's happening to children?

Speaker 1 Sorry again. It's a big show.
It's a big deal.

Speaker 1 And it's a smash hit. And so you've got to be adults.
Yeah. And you've got to meet expectations.

Speaker 1 And you've got a big fan base,

Speaker 1 but you also have to keep that silly joy going. Yeah.
Did you talk about that for a little bit?

Speaker 2 Well, that is so funny.

Speaker 2 It's true. I mean,

Speaker 2 our first job job was

Speaker 2 on Broad City. And at Comedy Central, it was a low-budget show.
You know, we didn't know if it would break through. We didn't know if people would watch.

Speaker 2 And we kind of, it was like, it was almost kids in a candy store. You know, there, it was just us figuring out how to make TV because we had never done it.

Speaker 1 And you're doing it. My favorite kind of comedy is when I can tell people are doing this for themselves.
Oh, yeah. And I think

Speaker 1 one of the things I loved about Broad City, And it's the same thing I would have said about classic SC TV or so many shows that I loved, is that I had the impression that they were doing this for themselves to make themselves laugh.

Speaker 1 And then I just happened to be stumbling upon it. Yes.
And that was some of the beauty of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, totally. And, you know, that we kind of showcased that in a way in episode four of this season when Deborah just looks at one person and looks at Ava.

Speaker 2 Because I remember doing solo shows at UCB, several, which is embarrassing to say. I did several solo shows.
And sometimes no one would be laughing except Lucia.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I was like, okay.

Speaker 1 I must marry. It's good.

Speaker 1 And then I will call her Lucia.

Speaker 1 Her true name, Lucia. You're not fooling anyone.
I've been to the DMV. You know how you spell your name.
But yeah,

Speaker 2 we try. I mean, and that's, I think, the secret of this show's success is also that we continue to try and make each other laugh.
I mean, that's what we do.

Speaker 2 When the three of us are writing together, oftentimes we all write the same scene separately and then switch and just highlight things we like. And then we combine them.

Speaker 2 So it's almost like a third draft.

Speaker 2 And all I'm trying to do is make these two women laugh. So it is for each other as much as it is for everybody.
And that was very true on Broad City. And it's still true on hacks.

Speaker 2 And Lucia, you know, always, always talks about following the fun. You have to follow the fun.
And we try and do that on set.

Speaker 2 And it's so hard when there's time and budgets and actors and crew and 300 people making something to balance all of that and still have the freedom to figure something out or to follow the fun of something is a real challenge.

Speaker 2 But we are there for each other to remind each other to do it. Yeah.
Which is not easy.

Speaker 1 No, I wouldn't think it would be easy, but I think you're also, you have such a funny cast of which you are a part, which is interesting.

Speaker 1 You wear so many hats on this show, but Megan Stalter is so funny.

Speaker 1 So funny. You get me started on Jean Smart, who's

Speaker 1 just,

Speaker 1 she is funny in so many different ways. Yes.
And when I watch her perform, I think she's not hitting one note. She's not hitting five notes.
She can hit every note in the register.

Speaker 1 And I'm so in awe of her and happy for her that you guys created this because she needed a role. She's always been funny.
Yeah. But this role shows you that she's funny and she can break your heart.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I know. She is so good.
I think you're right. Like we often talk about the music of jokes and the sound and the rhythm.

Speaker 2 And, you know, sometimes you have to, you, you have to adjust an actor and help them make the sound you want. She always knocks it out of the park and then gives us more.

Speaker 2 And we're like, oh my God, she hit a note we didn't even know.

Speaker 2 And it's so true that she also is so gifted as an actress that she plays those emotional beats in a way that it's, we, we, we cry at Monitor a lot, which is crazy, you know, still

Speaker 2 because she can break your heart. And she, yeah, she has been the funniest thing in so many things.

Speaker 2 I remember her on Frasier being so funny or in the Brady Bunch movie, I was, you know, I was like, the horny neighbor is the funniest part.

Speaker 1 I love the horny neighbor.

Speaker 2 It's so cool to have her show her range in the show.

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Speaker 1 Women have been

Speaker 1 just such a big part of your comedy experience. I mean, you look at not just

Speaker 1 Lucia, not just Jen. I'm going to say

Speaker 1 Lucia.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I actually think you might be talking about a different person at this point.

Speaker 2 Who's, I'm sure, wonderful as I'm.

Speaker 1 I'm sure. I'm talking about.
I'm about Lucia Aldente.

Speaker 1 Terrific comedy writer who lives on the island of Sardinia.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 I'm never going to say her name again. It's funny because you asked for the clarity the first thing you wanted to do.
I know, but can I say something? Maybe there is something wrong with me.

Speaker 1 Or maybe she and I have beef, and this is my way of getting at it.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 she's so passive-aggressive.

Speaker 1 She cut me off on the 405 eight years ago.

Speaker 2 And her license plate is Lucia. So

Speaker 1 she's

Speaker 1 like, When I rolled down my window, I went, Lucia, Lucia, from now on.

Speaker 1 And she said, What?

Speaker 1 You'll see. I said, You'll see.
Give this riff time to grow.

Speaker 1 Okay, Jen, Lucia, Megan, you've got two powerhouse female leads. It feels to me like this has always been your comfort zone is being around all these funny women.
We're broad city. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was reading some article about you. It said that you had a revelation when you saw young Frankenstein.
Yeah. Tell me what that was.
Well,

Speaker 2 so my dad is a comedy fan, and I remember watching Young Frankenstein as a kid and loving it.

Speaker 2 And of course, I loved Gene Wilder in it and wanted to be Gene Wilder, but I was really the my first like my foray into doing comedy was to do Clorice Leachman's lines

Speaker 2 or Valtin, you know, and just like stay close to the candles, Estes can betray.

Speaker 1 Like she was so funny in that movie.

Speaker 2 And Terry Garr is so funny in the movie and Madeline Kahn is so funny in that movie. And so I always was like, well, I think.
I think the girls are funnier than the guys.

Speaker 1 And I'll say this, who in the world is funnier than Gene Wilder? Gene Wilder, that is maybe,

Speaker 1 that is my favorite performance of his, and it's so beautifully honed. And we're talking about the women in the movie.
I know.

Speaker 1 And I mean, he's one of the greats of all time and he's giving the performance of a lifetime.

Speaker 1 And not to take anything away from him, but I can understand that.

Speaker 1 That's a great movie for... anyone to see.
Yeah. And

Speaker 1 learn very quickly that women are the funniest people in the room. Yeah.

Speaker 2 100%. And it's true.
I mean, Gene Wilder in that movie is so good because it's so grounded and yet so screwball and so crazy. He's just incredible in it.
But I felt that way also.

Speaker 2 I was a Nick at Night kid, so I watched a lot of Nick at Night and watching I Love Lucy or Mary Tyler Moore. It was always, it was always, it was oftentimes a female story that I liked.

Speaker 2 I also, you know, I was never a jock. I was never, you know what I mean? I never, yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 Can you believe it?

Speaker 1 I was a jock. And then about a year ago, what? Yeah.
We'll talk about that. You stopped.

Speaker 2 You hung up the bat.

Speaker 1 You were tired of the bat.

Speaker 1 Most people assume I'm a real jock.

Speaker 1 You were saying, I'm sorry, I interrupted you with my stupid.

Speaker 1 But you were saying that you were noticing early on in Nick at night, you're watching all these women. And a name you didn't mention,

Speaker 1 it was a thrilling moment for me. There's a moment where this season where Gene Smart.
goes to cardiologist just to get a checkup and in the waiting room, she sees Carol Burnett.

Speaker 1 We had Carol Burnett on the podcast about a year ago. I've met Carol a bunch of times and I will never be jaded.
I'm always walking on air afterwards.

Speaker 1 And she is still so sharp and so funny. And she is great in that scene, playing herself.

Speaker 2 Unbelievable. Unbelievably funny.
Unbelievably sharp. Wanted to had things to add.
Was like, you know, I can do a Carol Channing impression.

Speaker 1 There was so much that she did. I can juggle.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, honestly, it was really amazing.

Speaker 2 And we shot that at Television City steps away from her stage where she shot the Carol Burnett show, which we had, you know, asked permission to feature last season when we shot there, just to, just to show it, because she's such an inspiration for us.

Speaker 2 And we needed somebody in this season that Deborah Vance could get sage wisdom from and look up to. And like, who better than Carol Burnett?

Speaker 2 And the fact that she responded to the show and wanted to do it, I mean, it was a goosebump moment for all of us. It was, it was really crazy.

Speaker 1 The show delves into late night this year,

Speaker 1 which was fascinating for me because there are things that you cite in the show that I've lived through.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 I'll get a little bit of PTSD from watching it, but it's also really funny and apt, you know, like getting notes, or this is what we heard about, you know, in the early days of my late night show

Speaker 1 research. And what are people saying? And what do we need to try and adjust? And it was all stuff that just felt impossible.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm kind of reliving it a little bit through your show, but you guys are doing a very good job of hitting a bunch of the nerves, which means you're getting it right.

Speaker 2 That's good. That's good.
I mean, you know, obviously, like we, we talk about you and your shows a lot. And we did a lot this season making it.
And we tried to get it right, you know. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I, and just writing the show about making the show

Speaker 2 was so stressful and so hard. I'm like, I didn't do five shows a week and have to do monologue jokes.
Right. And yet I, I, I viscerally, I felt the pressure of that.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 There's a great moment where

Speaker 1 deborah vance is trying out she's meeting the new writers for the first time and they're going around the room and there's one people are throwing out funny ideas and then there's one writer who's new who just is like yeah and then he says something that's not that funny and and then she farts yeah yeah and then she farts uh because she

Speaker 1 farts which by the way which is funny it's very funny

Speaker 1 that would i would say head writer yeah yeah right away he's promoted yeah um the fart guy's promoted yeah good fart guy back. But anyway,

Speaker 1 he does it twice, and you see Gene Smart notice it.

Speaker 1 And then Gene Smart writes on a piece of paper and slides it over to Hannah and it says riff killer, which is such a great idea because it's a little inside baseball, but we call it riffing, which is people are in a room, they're coming up with good ideas, riffing.

Speaker 1 And then she just sides across riff killer because we've all been in a room where things are cooking. And then one person in the room is like, yeah, and then maybe it's George W.
Bush.

Speaker 1 And everyone has to reset. No one wants to be a dick.
Yeah, exactly. And we all go, Dorotho's pointing to Blay.

Speaker 1 Oh, Blay.

Speaker 1 You know it's me.

Speaker 1 Okay, but I don't. You don't need to pretend.
I'm right here. You don't need to just talk about it.

Speaker 1 Some people are Riff Killa. He thought it was a compliment, so he got it tattooed.

Speaker 1 He got Riff Killer on your level. He tattooed on his level.
That's nice. That's nice.
Riff Killa.

Speaker 1 But anyway, I love that moment. And then I have to bring this up, which is because I just watched it last night.
There's a scene where

Speaker 1 this killed me.

Speaker 1 It's a very funny joke and nonsensical. But

Speaker 1 Gene Smart, Deborah has stolen a guest, is trying to steal a guest away who would have been on Kimmel. And Kimmel's confronting her and saying, look, you know, I get this guest.

Speaker 1 You don't get this guest. She's trying to get Kristen Bell on her show.
And Jimmy Kimmel confronts her and says, you don't get Kristen Bell because she always does my show.

Speaker 1 She's been doing, I got sort of possession of having her as a guest after Conan died.

Speaker 1 And you know what I loved about it is that it said with no one questions it. It's just like, after, since Conan died, you know, I get her after Conan died.
And it's just like, that's understood.

Speaker 1 And I'm laughing because no one questions it.

Speaker 4 But in that universe, you're dead and you could never be on that show except in the flashback.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, don't say that.

Speaker 1 We definitely want you on the show.

Speaker 1 I think we've settled that score. No, no.
No, no, no. I'm kidding.
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
But it was so funny to me.

Speaker 1 It's such a funny, I always like jokes that upon examination, they make me laugh on a guttural level, but they also don't make sense. It makes no sense.
And he says it the way we all know.

Speaker 1 that Charles Lindbergh is dead. You know,

Speaker 1 it just, it was so funny. It was such a great moment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I have to give him credit because, you know, that was a Jimmy Kimmel improv line.

Speaker 2 Listen, so I did not write that line. That's great.

Speaker 1 Can you write that down? Okay.

Speaker 1 He will be repaid

Speaker 1 in kind. I can't wait to mispronounce his name.
Jamais.

Speaker 2 Jamais Kamal.

Speaker 1 Jamais, Jamais, Jamais. Lucia.
Lucia, have you met Jamais?

Speaker 2 So you're very much alive in our universe. Oh, well, and I, and I do mean it.

Speaker 2 I want to say it here. We would love to have you on the show.

Speaker 1 Oh, I would love to. I would absolutely love it.
Okay. And we can come up with a way that I was resuscitated.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 it's a joy to watch. And I think one of the things that's interesting to me is it's all about like a magician makes you believe in the illusion.

Speaker 1 And so I know it's a TV show, but you guys have me emotionally invested in what happens to Deborah Vance and does this late night show work?

Speaker 1 And I hope this late night show works out. Currently, things seem a little wobbly, but I'm emotionally invested in it, which means

Speaker 1 you're very good illusionists. Well, thank you.
You know, you've created this world that I'm completely invested in.

Speaker 2 Thank you. I mean, a lot of that credit goes to Gene and Hannah as well for making these characters so real.
I feel that way too. I mean, I know we write the show, but they feel so real to all of us.

Speaker 2 And I think they do now to them as well.

Speaker 2 There are some scenes this season when I think both Gene and Hannah do some of their best work in the show. And we're like, God, that was good after.

Speaker 2 And they're like, I just said it because I feel it. You know, I mean, now it's like so in their bones.
They feel these characters are so real to me.

Speaker 1 I think something Hannah does really well, just as an observer, is that she clearly

Speaker 1 wants a maternal figure. She wants a connection with this incredibly tough,

Speaker 1 you know, Gene Smart character.

Speaker 1 And she wants this so badly, but she also knows she has to be tough. And there's this great moment where

Speaker 1 without giving anything away, but she gets a hug from Gene and you see Hannah kind of melt a little bit because she's getting that connection that she really wants from not just her comedy hero, but also someone who she has a real connection with and

Speaker 1 cares about. And you see her soften a little bit.
And then Gene Smarts reveals that she's doing it just because there's a camera on them.

Speaker 1 And that's why she's doing it. And she needs to make it look good for the camera.
And you see the heartbreak. I mean, Hannah

Speaker 1 is killing it.

Speaker 2 She is incredible. Yeah.
She is incredible. And she does, like you're saying, so much sometimes with no dialogue.
You know, she's so funny and she's such a good stand-up herself.

Speaker 2 But yeah, she's so incredibly good. And it's hard, I think, to be that good.
I mean, obviously your scene partner does a lot of the lifting and helps you out. But to do what she does with Gene.

Speaker 2 is really incredible.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't work with people that lift me up.
Oh.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, it's hard when you have to lift everyone up. I know, it's hard.

Speaker 1 Can I just say for a second, I feel like I'm an Olympic swimmer and I have two cinder blocks around my neck. Oof.

Speaker 2 Okay, you are a jock.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yes.
If you can do that, we make you stronger. You do.
Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 We test you and make you stronger.

Speaker 1 You're welcome. That's what you want.

Speaker 1 And we're actively trying to drown it.

Speaker 1 It's called drag.

Speaker 2 It's called drag when you have cinder blocks as a swimmer.

Speaker 1 I was a swimmer, even though I wasn't a jock. Oh, okay.
You need the drag.

Speaker 3 You need a drag.

Speaker 1 I do. I do it.
I do need it.

Speaker 1 Your character, Jimmy, your relationship with Kayla, Megan Stalter, is, I will say this. I haven't seen, I don't think I've seen that relationship on TV before.
Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 6 I love, love, love that relationship.

Speaker 1 It's a relationship that's a dynamic. It's a dynamic that I have.

Speaker 1 And I'm flipping through my comedy nerd mind trying to find the same thing. And I'm like, nope.
I don't think it's there. I think that's a new thing you've cracked.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know, we're over the top insane. She's so insane.
So insane. And you are trying much more.

Speaker 1 I love that. You are.
And I have some experience with an insane assistant.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 But you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 No, I don't know what you're saying. I'm nothing like her.

Speaker 1 I do, but I love how different. What the fuck are you looking at me like that?

Speaker 1 I'm just looking.

Speaker 2 I'm just laughing.

Speaker 1 We have hours of footage of you acting insane.

Speaker 3 Oh, there's not enough footage of you being insane.

Speaker 1 I'm the star. I'm expected to be insane.

Speaker 1 At least Paul's character is like a normal person he's a normal boss yeah you're i love how patient you are i love how patient you are your character is uh jimmy is with with with kayla it's to an and that some of the comedy is to an absurd degree and it reminds me a little bit of one of the things that makes groucho so funny is margaret dumont because margaret dumont he's in acting insane and she's next to him going like

Speaker 1 groucho and then well anyway let's move forward when anyone else would say i'm getting the fuck away from this person

Speaker 1 But what makes it work is you

Speaker 1 can't, the whole dynamic of yes and is you are sticking with Kayla, with Megan Stalter. You're going to stick with her, and she's going to have awful, awful ideas with great confidence.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah.
She's somebody who, well, Megan is so funny and so, so good

Speaker 2 in everything she does. But when we, this is one character we kind of...
ripped from real life.

Speaker 2 This is based on a couple of assistants that people that we've worked with have had and that we've experienced. Sometimes who are nepo and have entitlement, but also a little bit of insecurity.

Speaker 2 Like having this extreme confidence and yet nerves is a really funny dynamic. And that is a duality that Meg plays in some of her original characters.
So we were like, she would be great for this.

Speaker 2 And yeah, we thought it was really funny to have somebody who is, in the beginning, at least, both his assistant and his boss, kind of, because her dad owns the management firm that they were.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 your initial problem is how do I get rid of this assistant? And now you're partners

Speaker 1 in this season. And I love that you just keep turning up the dial on.

Speaker 1 And what's also great is occasionally she has a good idea.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 And I do think that's true in the entertainment business and in management. You have to sometimes think outside the box and be insane.
And Jimmy is not insane. He's very by the book.

Speaker 2 He's very earnest. And sometimes those crazy ideas actually work.
So weirdly, she is a better manager than she is an assistant.

Speaker 2 She's terrible at being an assistant, but she has some out-of-the-box ideas that, especially this season, that really do work.

Speaker 1 I want to ask you a little bit about the dynamic of your comedy partner is also your romantic partner. And that's something that I've

Speaker 1 fascinates me. My wife is super smart, really funny.
We've never collaborated on anything. I've always thought, huh, that's a whole, that's like a Bermuda triangle that I have not gone into.

Speaker 1 And maybe we will someday, but how does that dynamic work? Or did it just, you always knew it was going to work.

Speaker 2 Well, we started, we were on an improv team together and we started doing sketch videos before we were ever dating.

Speaker 2 And it was in making those things because she's so smart and funny that attracted us to each other. And so we started dating kind of after we were already working together a bit.

Speaker 2 But she's my, she's the best audience. You know, she's the person that I want to make, that it feels the best to make her laugh.
She has such a good laugh and I love making her laugh.

Speaker 2 So, and it's been a real

Speaker 2 cheat for us to work together, not just because we have each other as an audience and as cheerleaders, but also, you know, in this business, you don't see your spouse if you're you're working as hard as we're working.

Speaker 2 So thank God we're on set together. That's really nice.
You know, we get to be together.

Speaker 2 I think it's different for different people, but I mean, you know, your wife being smart and funny, you know what it's like to make that person laugh. Yes.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like it's if I can hurt my wife really hard. And also if she can really laugh and she makes me really laugh, that's the glue.
Yeah. That's the long-term glue.
That's right.

Speaker 1 Have you ever wondered if Lucia said yes just because, accepted your proposal just because she was yes anding you? Oh my gosh. Because of improv training.

Speaker 1 Honestly, I hadn't until now. That's a fair question.

Speaker 2 I had until now. But you know what? She is a very good improviser.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Yeah.

Speaker 1 What was she going to do? You put out a scene,

Speaker 1 you laid it out there.

Speaker 1 Will you? And she has to say yes and we'll have a child.

Speaker 3 You're trying to not say no.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm saying that's the best. That's what I.

Speaker 4 I married an improviser too, and this is making me really look back.

Speaker 1 I was usual suspect.

Speaker 1 And guess what? It was during a sketch. It was, yeah.

Speaker 1 And then you afterwards were crying. and said, you said yes.
You have to.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. Oh, God.
Well, you know, didn't you, you guys

Speaker 1 had your first, your only child? Is it only child?

Speaker 2 Yeah, only.

Speaker 1 Your only child during the making of hacks. Yeah.
Well, you know,

Speaker 2 funnily enough, we weren't, we were not planning to get married.

Speaker 1 We were like, oh, well, we'll just won't get married.

Speaker 2 And, you know, we don't need to do that. And then there was a point in time when I was like, well, I want to get her a ring

Speaker 1 and I'll float it. I'll float it.

Speaker 1 thinking that she'd be like, We've talked about this, we've talked about this, we're not going to get married.

Speaker 2 Um, and she said yes, and because we had been together at that point for 15 years, so we'd been together for a really long time, and but we weren't going to have children, and so we did end up getting married.

Speaker 2 We thought it'd be a nice way to celebrate our time together.

Speaker 1 So, we're all improv, yes, and yes, no kidding. Well, that sperm and the egg.
We're like,

Speaker 1 yes, right. An improv on scene, an improv class with sperm and egg.
They were, they were, yeah,

Speaker 1 it was there on scene, and they, yeah, it crushed. It worked.

Speaker 1 I love that idea.

Speaker 1 And scene.

Speaker 1 Sperm.

Speaker 1 You work at a gym. Egg.

Speaker 1 This is your first time at the gym. And go.
You're pregnant.

Speaker 2 Actually, no, it's crazy. We didn't find out.
We, we had been traveling and she had missed one of her periods. And basically, we found out when she was two and a half months pregnant.

Speaker 2 So the next day, we saw a heartbeat. And that was two weeks before our wedding.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 So we got married, came home, started season, that was season two. We were, we were shooting season two.

Speaker 2 And then he came, he came early. Again, this is like again, sperm and egg doing their own thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He came early on his own time, and it was while we were shooting. And so she did direct between contractions because she was directing that day.

Speaker 2 I know, I know, which is mentally unwell. I mean, it's really badass and pretty badass.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's also.

Speaker 1 She's earned the right to be called Lucia. Yeah.
Oh, good.

Speaker 1 Now she's been. You know, now I've.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, Lucia. You're gone now.

Speaker 1 It's Lucia now. Rest in peace.
That's unbelievable. Yeah.
That's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 So it was a crazy year. It was a really, really crazy year.

Speaker 1 What's cool, too, is that as you go on through your career, you have this document, the actual show,

Speaker 1 where, I mean, in a weird way, I don't think about this much, but I have it too, because I met my wife on a remote shoot. We went to an advertising agency and people look it up online all the time.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. And I'm there just doing the Conan thing where I'm on a remote, being an ass.
And then I just start talking to this one woman in the room. Within seconds, I'm not even trying to be funny.

Speaker 1 We're just talking about,

Speaker 1 yeah, no, my dad. Right.
And so, okay.

Speaker 1 And you, and you like cats? That's funny. No, I, well, I've not even a dog.
I had a cat when I was a kid.

Speaker 1 And we're, and, and, my producer was listening on heads on headphones outside the office where we were doing all this this remote. He's like, what the fuck is he doing?

Speaker 1 So we have us meeting. Wow, that's really cool.
Then we have the episode where I'm just back from the hospital because my daughter was born. That's really cool.
And I'm talking about it on the air.

Speaker 1 Then we have the episode where I'm just back from the hospital because my son was born. I mean, I haven't really thought about it that much till this moment now, but those are weird documents.

Speaker 1 I remember bringing my son when he was little. No, I brought my daughter to work right after she was born.

Speaker 1 Not right after, but you know,

Speaker 1 the doctor said, yeah, she was still, umbilical cord was stretched over Ninth Avenue.

Speaker 1 Cabs were hitting it.

Speaker 1 It plays a low E-note.

Speaker 1 But anyway, she's,

Speaker 1 I brought my daughter in when she was old enough to come into the, and, and was sitting at the, and I, I saw Tina Faye recently and we reminisced about this because I said, Tina, I will never forget, Tina was up in 8-H rehearsing Saturday Night Live, and I'm down on six on the late night set, and I'm sitting, and I'm holding my daughter, And one of the cameramen zoomed in on my daughter.

Speaker 1 Suddenly, double doors fly open, and Tina comes running in, and she was like, Give me that baby. This is before she had her own daughter, but she was like, You could see that she had baby fever.

Speaker 1 And she was like, Give me that, oh my God. And she almost didn't get Nev back.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't long afterwards that she had her own daughter. But it was, I have all these memories that are, my show work is

Speaker 1 intertwined

Speaker 1 with

Speaker 1 meeting my wife, falling in love, getting married, children. It all becomes a piece.
And that's going to be part of all the work that you do going forward, even after hex, it'll all be entwined.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know. We think about that a lot.
We actually, you know, we talk about the show like our first child in a way, because it is like, it is like raising a child in a way.

Speaker 2 And then he came and... now has a sibling, you know, and he visits that sometimes.

Speaker 2 And there's so much. Now they're, now we have a lot of.

Speaker 2 Well, he really wants to, he just really wants to go to Crafty. That's all he cares about.

Speaker 2 But now we have a lot of footage of, because Gene is also, Gene is similar to Tina. Gene really wants Luca whenever he's on set.
And they have a great relationship.

Speaker 2 And she threw my wife's baby shower. And so we have all these photos and videos of him on set with Gene and sitting at Deborah Vance's desk as like an infant.

Speaker 1 And it is really cool that we'll have that. That's great.
Forever. Yeah.
That's,

Speaker 1 well, I'm, you know, I, I mean, it's, it's funny because after a while, I always think back to the I Love Lucy show where Lucy goes to the club to tell Ricky that she's pregnant.

Speaker 1 And, and it's, it's just fascinating to me because

Speaker 1 that was a show-business relationship in real life, but also they were doing a show about that. Yeah.
And then you saw all the ways in which it was intertwined. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And, you know, we go by Pauli Lou. That's our moniker, which is a nod to Desi Lou.

Speaker 2 We don't have a show about our life, but we have a show that is our life.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you play the bongos. That's right.
I wish. I wish.

Speaker 2 Jimmy could pick up the bongos. That would actually be good.

Speaker 2 He starts smoking a lot of weed and does the bongos because Kayla just drives him off the defense. That might be actually a good thing.
We need something new. We need something new for Jimmy.

Speaker 1 I can help you with that. And I'll be on set to pitch.

Speaker 1 I also want to give a personal shout out to an old fellow performer. One of the first things I ever did on stage was a show called Happy, Happy, Good Show.

Speaker 1 I did it with Robert Smeigel and Bob Odenkirk in Chicago in 1988 during a writer's strike at it. And so we were at SNL and we went to Chicago and put up this very weird sketch show.

Speaker 1 And there I met Rose Abdu.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 And Rose Abdu was hilarious and great.

Speaker 1 And I'm just so delighted that she's on the show. She is so funny.
She's always note perfect.

Speaker 2 She is perfect. And I tell you what, we, you know, we've now, whether it's at South Buy or at screenings at the Pally Fest, we've shown now a bunch of episodes to a live audience.

Speaker 1 She kills.

Speaker 2 She always knocks it out of the park. It's crazy.
Yeah. You know, she comes on for one pop and always knocks it out of the park.

Speaker 1 She is a trooper. She's like a vaudevillian trooper.

Speaker 1 And, um, but I've looked at not long ago, I found a program from Happy, Happy, Good Show. I think I'm 25.

Speaker 1 I'm 6'4. I think I'm 155 pounds.

Speaker 1 And there's a sketch where I'm supposed to be. I mean, exactly.
Damn. Jock.
Center block. Jock or Weather Vane.
You be the Detroit. You be the pole balter.
Yeah. No, the pole.
The actual pole.

Speaker 1 And I think it's a sketch where I'm, yeah, it's a sketch where all of us are supposed to be naked, but I'm holding a guitar and you can see my

Speaker 1 body. And it's a freak show.

Speaker 1 Not that it isn't now, but oh my God. But Rose is in the picture, and all of us are just really hopeful.
Like, we'll get there somehow. It's just sweet.
It's a really sweet memory for me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's been doing it for a long time, and she is so good. I'm really glad that she's a part of the family.
And she named the character.

Speaker 2 It was a different name. And we said, she said, I'm going to base this on my aunt and my mom.
And we said, okay, do you want to choose the name? And she said, Josephina.

Speaker 1 She was like, I have it ready. Yeah.
Then she renamed your wife. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 And you are Lucia. No, Lucia.
Luciana. Luciana.

Speaker 1 Am I the only one who've noticed that you have the most amazing eyes? Oh, come on. I have, I've seen on TV, but in person, I think I've fallen in love with Paul.
Throw

Speaker 1 it.

Speaker 1 Very deeply in love with you.

Speaker 1 I'm just back at you.

Speaker 1 No, no, I have... creepy killer eyes.
Look, beady, looking around. Oh, my gosh.
Look at that. Don't do that.

Speaker 1 Right? You do that, yeah. But you do have really nice

Speaker 1 expansion where the eyes move. Well, I think one of us has to call your wife.

Speaker 1 I am

Speaker 1 very happy for you. Thank you.
Massive congratulations. If you ever want me to play a parking lot attendant on your show, we need you on the show.

Speaker 1 I'm not kidding. We really need to.
Whatever. Whatever you guys want me to do.

Speaker 3 You exist in the universe.

Speaker 1 No, I'm dead now. No, you're not.
No, you've been demoted to parking lot attendant.

Speaker 3 If you don't have the late-night show, you're dead.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 I think that was his.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It's all good.
I'll do whatever you guys want me to do. It doesn't matter.
And I have no ego about it. I'll do craft services on this show.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 My son would love you. Yeah, seriously.
Just give him some pirates booty. All chocolate, pirate booty.

Speaker 1 But anything to help get an aura in the water. Like this show needs any help.
I think you've won, it's insane. I can't even get into how many Emmys you've won, Peabody,

Speaker 1 but all well-deserved and

Speaker 1 makes me happy.

Speaker 1 Always does when these youngsters out there, and you are youngsters, are doing really good,

Speaker 1 fantastic work and killing it, makes me, by association, proud. Well,

Speaker 2 I hope you, I'm glad you feel that way because we admire you and your work so much. And, you know, Jen, my co-creator, interned for you and has amazing stories about that.

Speaker 2 Covered your assistant's desk and was very nervous and said that you were not only funny, but kind. And

Speaker 2 what?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Cut on his mic. Depends on who I am.

Speaker 2 She's a very good assistant, I think.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 She knows how to play it.

Speaker 1 Oh, he was very kind.

Speaker 1 Suddenly, Bugatti shows up outside her door with a bow on it. Thanks for playing along, Conan.

Speaker 1 Anyway,

Speaker 1 Hacks, it is season four now.

Speaker 2 Is it season four? We're in season four, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're in season four, and I'm five shows through and loving it.

Speaker 1 Keep doing what you're doing. Please.

Speaker 1 Please. I know you were thinking of stopping.
Yeah. But my enemy.
I almost retired last night. I'm encouraging you to keep.

Speaker 1 I said, I'll keep going. You know, it was this podcast.
Yeah, actually. You walked in, you're all like, I think we're going to stop now.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Well, now I can retire.

Speaker 2 You know, I mean, this is, I actually, you know, I always wanted to be on your show. Oh.
And, oh, it was a dream. And so this is a dream.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I saw you once and I said to my wife, I'm going to go up and introduce myself and just tell them that I'm a fan. Everyone likes to hear that they have fans.
And she was like, like, so

Speaker 2 you can edit this out if you want, if you want to keep privacy and anonymity.

Speaker 1 But it was at the Hotel DuCap.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I'm at the Hotel DuCop.

Speaker 1 I was there on a junket. I got sent there.

Speaker 2 But they love it. Love you there.
You're on the wall. Oh, really? They have a signature of yours on the wall in the bar.

Speaker 1 The Hotel DuCop is not a hotel that I would book myself. Okay.
I was sent there because I'm not the kind of person. Look, I like a nice hotel.
Hotel. Look at this hotel.

Speaker 1 Where is this hotel? Oh, it's in edenrock in uh on the france like near canned yeah

Speaker 1 and and i got sent there they said do you want to go and do this panel there and we'll fly you and your wife and this is a legendary hotel it's insane and i get there and they're throwing some big shindig and i do my thing and i'll never forget seeing um bon jovi

Speaker 1 we'll get to you seeing bon jovi and and bon jovi and i say oh hey man what are you doing here and he went they flew me in just to sing, you know, like a cab on a steel hose.

Speaker 1 Well, I did. And I said, you're just singing one song.
He's like, like, that's it. And they're covering everything.
And I thought, show business, I haven't experienced this a lot. This is fantastic.

Speaker 1 But anyway, so did we encounter each other?

Speaker 2 So, no, because I, so we were actually, we were even staying in the main hotel. They have like a little annex that's less money.
And so, and because I wasn't flown, I paid for it.

Speaker 2 And, um, but we were on a budget. So at dinner, I said to Lucia, I'm going to take all of the baguette in the basket.
And I put baguettes in my pocket.

Speaker 1 I love this.

Speaker 2 And so we get back to the hotel. We had had some French wine.
And I said, oh my God, there's Conan. I have to go say hello.
And she said, babe, you have baguettes in your pocket.

Speaker 1 Your pockets are stuffed with baguettes.

Speaker 2 You're going to look like Jean-Paljean.

Speaker 1 You look like he's stolen food.

Speaker 2 Just wait until maybe you meet him properly one day.

Speaker 1 No. I know.
I want to say.

Speaker 4 No, he's got baguettes in his pockets still.

Speaker 1 Well, honestly, I would.

Speaker 2 I love bread.

Speaker 1 Me too.

Speaker 1 First of all, she was wrong. Okay, she's Lucia again.

Speaker 1 Back to Lucia. Demota to Lucia.
Lucia. No, are you kidding? I would have loved that.
I should have done it. I would have loved that.

Speaker 1 And as I think you will attest, you would have said, oh, I don't want to bother Conan O'Brien. You would have come up to me.
We would have started chatting. I would have asked you some questions.

Speaker 1 And then within 10 minutes, you'd be saying, I think I have to go.

Speaker 1 That is the usual experience.

Speaker 2 You should have done it then. That would have been.

Speaker 1 And I would have been like, oh, now I've got bread in my pockets, too. Let's do a payload speed tomorrow.
And I'll have bread in my pockets. I'd be like, I don't think it's Conan.
This is

Speaker 1 getting a neediness here. Oh, that was good.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Needy. Needy.
That was very good. That was very good.
Very needy. Very good.
Paul, thank you so much for making the time. Congrats on everything, and I'm real happy for you.

Speaker 2 Thanks so much.

Speaker 1 I'm sure a lot of you out there are plain Coca-Cola people, and that's respectable. Trust me, I'm one.
Yes, I am. You've many times seen me just, I like to order just a regular.

Speaker 1 You really do. I really do.
But if you haven't tried a Coca-Cola from Sonic, now is your chance, because right now it's completely free with any purchase.

Speaker 1 Now, if you're a regular Joe, you're thinking to yourself, I can get a Coca-Cola from anywhere, Conan. Why would I go to Sonic? Well, I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 1 Sonic has all the flavors and add-ins to make the perfect Coca-Cola for you. I'm talking strawberry, cherries, coconuts, sweet cream, jalapenos.
Oh.

Speaker 1 Second of all, let me say this again. It's free.
But I like an add-in. I like to have a little flavor.
And you know what? Coconut in your Coca-Cola is delicious. It really is.

Speaker 1 So create a Coke your way, any size, any flavor, free with any purchase in the Sonic app for a limited time. Live free.
Eat Sonic.

Speaker 1 Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich. I mean, we've been thinking that.
Why does he'll say it, right, Sona?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Like, who needs a crust?

Speaker 1 You've been saying that since the day I met you 15 years ago, Sona. You said, who needs the crust? And I said, first of all, my name's Conan.
You know,

Speaker 1 anyway, it's the perfect grab and go for all of life's moments with unbeatable soft bread and a variety of flavors, like, well, peanut butter and grape jelly, peanut butter and strawberry jam.

Speaker 1 Hello, peanut butter and raspberry spread, and so much more. No mess, no prep, just thaw

Speaker 1 and eat.

Speaker 1 Yep, get them in the freezer aisle today

Speaker 1 every now and then we stumble upon a revelation uh that uh really rocks our world and just the other day we found out that sona you were a girl scout yes i was i just don't see it what do you mean do you it's it's kind of shocking yeah it is a little shocking you're a rule breaker yeah you're a rebel you know you're the pinky tuscadero i still remember my pledge i live by my pledge.

Speaker 3 And I think that I

Speaker 3 think that I.

Speaker 1 What's the pledge?

Speaker 3 On my honor, I will try to serve God.

Speaker 1 I've already lost it. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 And my country.

Speaker 3 To help people at all times.

Speaker 3 And to live by the Girl Scout law.

Speaker 3 And yeah, I do that. I always do that.
So you're welcome.

Speaker 1 Do you think that you upheld the Girl Scout code when you were my full-time assistant?

Speaker 6 I helped people at all times.

Speaker 1 But what about me?

Speaker 3 I helped people at all times and I lived by the Girl Scout law. So, you know, I did my best with you.

Speaker 1 You do very well in a Senate conference. I know.

Speaker 1 The Senate votes unanimously that you are the new Secretary of the Interior. I do not recall.
So that's what I'm going to say.

Speaker 3 I always help you. I do not recall.

Speaker 1 So how did you get into the Girl Scouts? Whose idea was it? Was this something that your parents came up with or was it something you wanted to do?

Speaker 3 I think my parents, I think they wanted to get us into American stuff. And so they signed me up as a Girl Scout when I was really young.
I was a Daisy, and then I became a brownie.

Speaker 3 I think that, no, I was a brownie, then I became a junior. And so I don't know what the ranks are.

Speaker 3 It starts off at Daisy.

Speaker 1 I thought brownie was the beginning. Daisy was the one.

Speaker 3 Daisy's the baby, brownie, and then junior, and then it goes up, but I stopped after junior.

Speaker 1 And then it's Reichschführer at the very top.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. Yeah, that's when you get a long leather coat and a riding prop.

Speaker 3 It was fun, though.

Speaker 1 I had a lot of fun. Mercedes.

Speaker 1 Well, we were joined by someone else on staff who we also.

Speaker 2 Can I share a photo?

Speaker 1 And then it'll be a little bit more. Yeah, okay.
That's very good.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Look at that. Sona.

Speaker 1 So serious.

Speaker 3 I don't know why I'm holding the flowers like that.

Speaker 1 Sona, you look kind of like non-plussed about it all.

Speaker 1 It does look like you're curling the flowers.

Speaker 1 It does. Oh, I just

Speaker 1 this is incredible. Look at you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 flower bear at a funeral or something.

Speaker 1 But also, look at what do those markings indicate? Are those different awards that you won?

Speaker 3 Yeah, those are my badges.

Speaker 3 That's what it's all for.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but what were the badges? Do you remember what your badges were for?

Speaker 3 I have no idea. I think it was like, I mean, it was the 80s and 90s.

Speaker 1 No, it wasn't for flower.

Speaker 3 It was like, it was like, oh, I made applesauce. Oh, look at me.
I made a pie. Oh, look, I learned how to sew.
It's like that, and camping and stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I bet Sona was really good at selling cookies, though.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 You just tapped into a thing. We would go in front of the Albertsons, and it was me and this troop leader's daughter, and we would.
battle it out to see who would sell more.

Speaker 3 And sometimes we were so aggressive, we scared away customers.

Speaker 1 And you were just, and here's the thing, you were a livo girl

Speaker 1 who scared away adults and you were holding cookies.

Speaker 1 During that brownie you were a little bit more. Look at that monster.

Speaker 1 Look at that monster.

Speaker 1 Always come on. Always be closing.

Speaker 3 It's an assassin.

Speaker 1 Yes, you were a

Speaker 1 David Mammoth play.

Speaker 1 Desperate.

Speaker 1 He said the Glen Gary. I want the Glen Gary leads.

Speaker 1 I can't sell these Milanos. I want the Samoan leads.

Speaker 3 Milanos are not Girl Scout cookies, and you should know that.

Speaker 1 I don't know. How dare you? Oh, by the way, way, no one's bought more Girl Scout cookies than I have.
Okay. Because we have some moms here that work here that have daughters.

Speaker 1 And all I do is buy Girl Scout cookies by the bucket load. Okay.
And I take none of them home. I don't eat them.
So, um, well, you should know Milanos are not Girl Scout cookies.

Speaker 1 Okay, tell me what the cookies are.

Speaker 3 There's thin mints, there's Samoas, there's the, that's pretty much. Oh, the tag-alongs are really good.
Um, the shortbread, okay. There's the lemon ones.

Speaker 1 I mean, it sounds like, and what was your spiel when you were trying to sell?

Speaker 3 Would you like to buy some Girl Scout cookies?

Speaker 1 I bet your spiel was more like, you're going to buy some fucking cookies.

Speaker 1 Or you're going to have a flat tire when you're done buying grapes.

Speaker 4 And you're going to have protection from here on out.

Speaker 1 Do you understand?

Speaker 1 You're smoking a cigarette outside the house. You just wore a track suit.

Speaker 1 Tracksuit with badges on it. Track suit, badges.
You're smoking a bubblegum cigarette.

Speaker 1 Look here, see? Why are you carrying a tire irony?

Speaker 1 You like having knees? Must be nice.

Speaker 1 Look, you buy some tag-alongs, and I won't be tagging along, if you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'm also going to slay you some Milanos. They're not street cred.

Speaker 1 These fell off a truck. Yeah, I don't think those are Girl Scout cookies.
I said they fell off a truck.

Speaker 1 Now, David,

Speaker 1 it was also revealed when you saw this picture of Sona, you said, wait a minute. I must add something.
I was a scout. You were a scout.

Speaker 4 You are not only a scout, though.

Speaker 1 I'm an Eagle.

Speaker 1 I'm an Eagles dog.

Speaker 1 That's as high as you can go. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're lucky to have us. Yeah, I know.
So, so, wow, both my assistants have risen in the ranks of one of the most prestigious

Speaker 1 blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 I love it. That's so adorable.

Speaker 5 I think that that's me holding a participation trophy.

Speaker 1 You got a Scott car. You became a scot car, right?

Speaker 5 That was my Pinewood Derby car that I like built. Oh, look.

Speaker 1 And then I

Speaker 5 did it. And that's my participation.

Speaker 3 He got a participation.

Speaker 1 What does a participation trophy look like?

Speaker 5 I mean, it's just smaller than the other trophies.

Speaker 1 But is it a figure kind of shrugging? Like a car? It's a little car. Oh, it's a little car.
It's not even a car. It's just a blob.

Speaker 2 That was a big day.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I can tell.

Speaker 5 You put in so much work and then you put your car up and it's over in like a second.

Speaker 1 David, you look no different.

Speaker 1 Sona looks like

Speaker 1 Sona has grown into an adult person.

Speaker 1 You look like...

Speaker 1 Look at David and look at this little boy. I need to get the round glasses again.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 David,

Speaker 1 that's a very cute photograph. Now,

Speaker 1 what kind of badges did you get? I mean, if you went that high,

Speaker 1 I mean, it sounds like Sona just had a couple of bullshit badges.

Speaker 1 No, seriously, like, you didn't stick around that long.

Speaker 3 You didn't have any badges. We, if we were in nature with the two of us, you, we could.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we could start a fire. We could do that.
I think. Yeah.
Wait, could you start a fire, do you think, using just two sticks?

Speaker 3 No, I could with a lighter.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. That's what they teach when the scouts now.

Speaker 1 With this, you need to go into the woods and all you have is an acetylene torch. Sona got her fire badge from 17 pounds of beef.

Speaker 4 Soda got her fire badge from just leaving a curling iron on.

Speaker 5 So what about you david uh i mean we had to do like the camping one the the climbing one was awful because i had to rappel from like a 30-foot tower and i was terrified um but we didn't sell cookies we sold christmas trees oh that's right yeah wow

Speaker 1 wait you but did they come to a certain lot or do you have to like haul a tree around they would come to a lot and then the boy scouts we would just sit there and sell to everyone in carlinville and this is carlinville illinois shout out to carlinville yeah and david has told told me many stories about Carlinville.

Speaker 5 You're basically a local at this point.

Speaker 1 No, I know all about Carlinville. I have gone on the local websites.
Yeah. You've had, you've shown me where you used to hang out, one of the two places where you could hang out in Carlinville.

Speaker 1 Hey, Carlinville, Conan O'Brien here. I would love to visit Carlinville someday.

Speaker 1 And I think I deserve a parade.

Speaker 1 There won't be a parade.

Speaker 1 No, David doesn't get a parade.

Speaker 1 No. No, he's a local boy made good.
David drives the float. float

Speaker 1 i'll still wave yeah and our floor will come in second what is our float gonna be what's gonna be a participation float

Speaker 1 i love that there's a float competition for conan to visit yeah and i we gotta make as you're driving we get the participation um so i want to win somehow i know

Speaker 1 i am i will say this i trust you both with my life and that is a uh that that speaks well of of the Boy and Girl Scouts because I think you're both exemplary people.

Speaker 1 I don't say that you have great skills. Oh, okay.
And I wouldn't go turn to you if I was lost in the woods, but you're both very good people. They gave you a good moral code.

Speaker 1 We'll take it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thanks. So shout out to the scouts.
We took the

Speaker 1 scouts, get a Milano.

Speaker 1 There's no reason why you just can't start putting Milanos in there. And no, it's not a trademark name.
And no, I haven't looked into it. Just do it.

Speaker 1 But anyway,

Speaker 1 and Carl and Ville, we'll be seeing you soon. Wow.

Speaker 2 We're going to be in the paper.

Speaker 1 You just sexually harassed a city.

Speaker 1 These pictures can be viewed at Team Coco Podcasts on Instagram.

Speaker 4 Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonom Obsession, and Matt Gorley. Produced by me, Matt Gorley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Fross, and Nick Liao.

Speaker 4 Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.

Speaker 4 Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and Mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.

Speaker 4 Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.

Speaker 4 You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Cocoa Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message.

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Speaker 4 And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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