Charlie Sheen

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Speaker 1 Hi, my name is

Speaker 1 Charlie Sheen.

Speaker 1 I love that. Very few people struggle with their own name.
Well, no. Charlie, how are you? Charlie.
I came up with the fill-in with the in the middle of my name.

Speaker 1 I'm using all of this. I don't care what you're doing.
I hope so.

Speaker 1 Hi, my name is Charlie Sheen, and I feel enchanted

Speaker 1 about being Conan O'Brien's friend. I love that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I like that a lot.

Speaker 1 I haven't used that word since childhood. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walk in blues, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are gonna need friends.

Speaker 1 Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends.

Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, a podcast that gives life meaning. Sona Fsessian joining me along with Matt Gorley.
Hi. And Sona, I understand you've got a big gig coming up.

Speaker 1 Do you want to talk about it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, we were talking about a podcast recording we have coming up that I have to miss because I'm going to

Speaker 1 this episode.

Speaker 2 Oh, just kidding. Oh, I'm missing this episode.
You're missing this. Oh, so you won't see me or hear me in.

Speaker 2 Charlie Sheen's episode because they know it's Charlie Sheen.

Speaker 2 I'm pulling a Conan. I'm like, do they know?

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, I'm from the old school of show business where you, voila, this is the new world of magic where they tell you how the trick works.

Speaker 1 You just start with it going, and tonight's guests are. I know.

Speaker 2 I know. Nothing was ever a surprise.
I know. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Don't reveal how ignorant I am of my own life.

Speaker 1 I don't even know who I am at this point.

Speaker 1 So, but anyway, I'm going to try and clean up.

Speaker 1 My job is to clean up this brambled brush. Wow.
Yeah. You are going to miss the interview today because

Speaker 1 you have to go on a big gig.

Speaker 2 Tell us what the gig is. I'm doing a speaking engagement at a convention for assistants.

Speaker 2 Why are you laughing so hard? I was your assistant for 12 years.

Speaker 1 You were terrible.

Speaker 2 How dare you?

Speaker 1 Why is there also a convention for assistants?

Speaker 2 Because there is, it's an important thing to bring us all together. We are the most powerful people in the entertainment.

Speaker 1 This is going to make me sound really ignorant, probably to a bunch of assistants. She's speaking.
She's so fun. Stop laughing.
Obviously. Stop laughing.

Speaker 1 I kept you alive for 12 years.

Speaker 1 I kept you alive.

Speaker 2 I kept you alive.

Speaker 1 This is the greatest thing I've ever heard. I got you to where you needed to be.

Speaker 2 I forgot what else I did.

Speaker 2 I'm pretty sure, like, I.

Speaker 1 Welcome, everybody, to the Convention of Non-Killing Murderers.

Speaker 1 And our speaker today is Genghis Kahn.

Speaker 1 Genghis, talk about your life life of not killing and not murdering. No violence.

Speaker 2 These are my people. These are my people.

Speaker 1 Now, are you there? Is it kind of ironic that you're going? People know. You wrote a book called World's Worst Assistant.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you wrote the forward for me. I know, yeah.
You laugh, you laugh at you. You did this.
You laugh at you.

Speaker 1 You laugh at you. Because you enabled this.

Speaker 2 You'd laugh at you.

Speaker 1 Is this a preview of your speech?

Speaker 1 Hey, number one rule of being assistant. You laugh you.

Speaker 1 You laugh you.

Speaker 1 What are are you talking about? You're incoherent.

Speaker 2 What I'm saying is, you enabled me for 12 years.

Speaker 1 Okay, sure.

Speaker 2 All right. What do you mean, sure?

Speaker 1 I mean, yes, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 I don't think you ever reprimanded me. You just made fun of me all the time.

Speaker 1 Right. But what I'm saying is, given that all of that is true, you still should not be speaking to thousands of assistants and putting your imprint on their minds.

Speaker 2 How I am, I am

Speaker 2 a success story.

Speaker 1 In In spite of yourself.

Speaker 2 That's true. But I assisted a high-profile individual for a very long time.

Speaker 1 Very true. Very true.

Speaker 2 And I got you to where you needed to be.

Speaker 2 Yeah. What do you mean?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I did. Good debating skill.
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 Organized. And the winner was tournament.

Speaker 2 I was a champion.

Speaker 2 Speech. I didn't debate.

Speaker 1 She didn't debate because debate involves logic and doing a little reading ahead of time. She was really good at going, oh, me? Now you!

Speaker 1 You look at you. You look at you.

Speaker 2 You look at you. You look at you.

Speaker 1 Funny me, funny you.

Speaker 2 You laugh, you, and you know, you did this. You did this.
You enabled this.

Speaker 1 Champion, once again, is Sonomov Cessi and Cessi and Sessi and Cessi. No, for real.

Speaker 2 I came into this ambitious, and then you started making fun of me very early on. You said it sounded like I was arguing with Dracula when I was talking to my grandma on the phone.
It was your mother.

Speaker 1 And it broke me. And it did sound like arguing.
It broke. You were going, ble, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And it did sound like, uh you know dracula the auctioneer and i i just commented on that and i thought was a very sensitive way are you proud of what you've done to me yes i think it's really funny is it yeah is it funny for you yes because you innate you funny you you funny you well you win that one too god you're good

Speaker 2 what's the subject of your speech gonna be it's not it's a q a i don't even have to have a prepared speech i'm just gonna have a conversation with someone which is nice it's called the ea mafia and you know they're like it's a it's gonna be in palm springs it's gonna be lovely Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm going to say this at the risk of ruining all our good fun.

Speaker 1 You are, were a remarkable assistant.

Speaker 1 And no, listen, I will say this on some of the specifics, a disaster. But the important thing is, Sona would have jumped in front of a bullet for me.

Speaker 1 She would have. She's incredibly loyal.

Speaker 1 Why would you have done that? I don't know. Just so she could get overtime.

Speaker 2 Protect my paycheck.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 She'd be like well i'm shot now so that's double overtime

Speaker 2 for the length of my recovery can i say something though you compliment david hopping way more than you've ever complimented me

Speaker 1 you always tell me he's doing a good job yeah i taught him everything he knows i don't think that's true it's true no he he took over and you were like good luck to you you do you you do and then you jumped out a window and landed in a big hummus truck oh that sounds good i want to get it i want some of that that actually sounds really nice uh no i'm gonna finish my nice nice thing.

Speaker 1 Okay, yes, please. Incredibly loyal, very street smart, savvy, really funny.
And we had a blast. I had a blast working with you.
I think 95% of the time we were doing bits.

Speaker 1 But yeah, helped keep me sane.

Speaker 1 Or kept me insane. I don't know which, but

Speaker 1 Sona, I love you and I owe you everything.

Speaker 2 I love you too. I'm serious too.
I really miss working with you on a daily basis.

Speaker 1 Back to how terrible you were. Okay, you know what? No, we were so close to a nice moment.
Come on.

Speaker 1 Come on. My favorite quote is the, we did a remote that you can look up on YouTube, I'm sure, or our website, whatever.
I don't know how things work.

Speaker 1 What? YouTube. What's that? YouTube.
It should be on that. YouTube's still a thing.
Okay.

Speaker 1 On the tube. You can look it up.
But when you and I worked with someone, the HR rep. The HR rep.
Blair. I think, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 Her name was Blair. And you said, and you weren't making a joke.
You say, I just think I have a mental block against assisting him. And I said, you are my assistant.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And it was such a great moment because I think that's true, but it also, in a great way, worked.

Speaker 2 It did work. It worked.
And we're pals for life.

Speaker 1 We are pals for life. And I'm a barnacle.
Also, I'm proud of you. I'm really glad that you're doing this.
And I think those people are lucky to have you.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Thanks.

Speaker 1 Like a piece of. What are you getting paid? Yeah.
Can I get a little something? No. You can't get it.

Speaker 2 No, that's mine.

Speaker 1 Don't do that. I just want to wet my beak.
I want to wet my beak. No, don't do that.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. No,

Speaker 2 stop doing that.

Speaker 1 Ew. I love wet my beak.
Godfather.

Speaker 2 Gross, I don't like the

Speaker 2 sound effects.

Speaker 1 Those are awful. Awful.
My guess today, we got to get into it. Yeah.
I mean, there's no time to screw around.

Speaker 1 Maybe he wants to wet his beak. What's all we've been doing is screwing around, just so we're clear.
That is actually the job definition. That is what we do.

Speaker 1 Quit screwing around. We got to get back to screwing around.
My guest today is an actor whose new memoir, The Book of Sheen, is out now.

Speaker 1 He also has a two-part Netflix documentary titled, aka Charlie Sheen.

Speaker 1 Charlie Sheen, welcome.

Speaker 1 I want to make it clear to all my listeners, I met you years and years ago. You came on, I didn't realize you came on my show eight times.
That's amazing. You came on the show a lot.

Speaker 1 And the first time I met you, my immediate reaction was, and this is long before Two and a Half Men. Okay.
My reaction was, damn, this guy is really funny. Oh, right on.

Speaker 1 And I remember clicking with you right away just about how funny you are, which enraged me

Speaker 1 because you were born with that head and I was born with this head. That infuriated me that you were so quick and verbally dexterous.
Your delivery is so dry.

Speaker 1 You have the features and, of course, the career of a leading man actor. Thank you.
But

Speaker 1 you you were so funny in ways that could surprise because it's not what I expected coming out of you. And I think that served you really well over yours.
And now speak to that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 How do you,

Speaker 1 what, what can I say? Where do you go from there? What can I say that you didn't? Well,

Speaker 1 you could say, no, no, no, you're wrong, Conan. It is you

Speaker 1 who is the true master. Of course, you haven't done that.
It was you, though,

Speaker 1 when I discovered that we had, like instantly, we had a comedic rapport. Yes.
And we understood each other's rhythms and timing and sensibilities. Yes.
Yes. And

Speaker 1 that doesn't usually, that's rare. No, it was so much fun.
I remembered, you know, there was always, as you know,

Speaker 1 you generate all kinds of stories. And at the time, there was some story about how you liked feet, you know, ladies' feet.

Speaker 1 And so our producer. We did it with Andy.
Yeah. And our producer, Frank Smiley, said,

Speaker 1 and, you know, we thought, well, we'll pitch you this thing. And I thought, well,

Speaker 1 Charlie Sheen might just get mad and punch us. It was all about us showing you different feet and you rating them.
Right. And

Speaker 1 you were like, of course. Yes.
Let's do that. And then you did it and you were really funny.
And to me, it's,

Speaker 1 oh, he's really fun to play with. And there's so many ways that I, first of all, a lot of similarities.

Speaker 1 You and I were, when you talk about who really partied hard in the 80s and 90s, 90s, it's always Charlie Sheen, Conan O'Brien. Well, yeah.
I mean, and not always in that order.

Speaker 1 Not always in that order. No.
No.

Speaker 1 Sure. He didn't party and you didn't just clean up.
Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 And Charlie will bear this out, but there was not a moment in his hard living

Speaker 1 times when I wasn't right across the room. It was me, Nick Cage, and you.
And I was. And Sean Penn.
And Sean Pan.

Speaker 1 And I remembered you guys sometimes saying, Conan, slow down. Yeah, but that didn't matter if you never listened to us.

Speaker 1 But if you're going to set up,

Speaker 1 yeah, that's why when I watched the documentary, read the book, I'm like, hey, where am I, man? I was there often leading the way.

Speaker 1 As litigious as you've been in the past,

Speaker 1 we were like, let's just, let's just disappear him.

Speaker 1 And we did. And I thought you'd see that as a compliment.
You know,

Speaker 1 my wife, very appreciative my kids so glad not to be mentioned um

Speaker 1 it's so funny because you've always made me uh really laugh and you have this you've had this unusual career where you know

Speaker 1 these

Speaker 1 these films these iconic films uh that you were that you were in and then

Speaker 1 um where you're playing it's a heavy roles and leading man stuff and you know oscar winning uh uh you know platoon and you're in wall street and and then you have this, we were talking about it,

Speaker 1 Major League and the Hot Shots, where you got to show this other muscle that most

Speaker 1 guys in your position didn't, wouldn't have had that kind of flexibility. Sure.
And you probably knew all along I could do that if I had to. Or did you not know? Well,

Speaker 1 the Hot Shots movies, I,

Speaker 1 going into it,

Speaker 1 I was going to be borrowing from the late, great Leslie Nielsen. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And I just, I kind of, because I saw those films as a child or as a young

Speaker 1 teenager, like with Emilio in Westwood on a Friday night watching airplane, it was the first time when I thought, oh my gosh, someone else gets my sense of humor.

Speaker 1 And when I saw that, I thought, oh, yes, this is what it is. Your eyes don't twinkle when you say it.
You have to have the 10,000-yard stare.

Speaker 1 Everything you brought to any of your serious movies, you now bring bring to this but what you're saying and doing is is quite absurd right so I I have to kill those jokes like I killed Sergeant Barnes yes

Speaker 1 I just came up with that

Speaker 1 and then and then I had another very good thank you thank you I just that that's a fresh one for me okay okay and then I just realized that you're talking with us too

Speaker 1 I don't mean that demeaningly you don't have part of the you're in part of the triangle you know what we discourage him as much as possible okay okay because because I don't want to be like, he's the only one that matters.

Speaker 1 I really don't know. No, Charlie.
Are you part of the show?

Speaker 1 Not really.

Speaker 1 Are you filling in for someone today? No, no, no. I've never met this guy before in my life.
No, no, he was here to fix the HVAC. That's right.
And

Speaker 1 he said, this chair is comfortable. I said, well, have a seat.
And I said, this is true. I did see Platoon when I was in sixth grade.
Six times in the theater. In sixth grade? Sixth grade?

Speaker 1 Middle school. Okay.
And I was obsessed with that movie. You saw it.
How many times in the movie? Six times in the year. Six times.

Speaker 1 So you have, I I mean, that's a lot of money in Charlie's pocket that came directly. And I'm here to get it back.

Speaker 1 You were dissatisfied, but you couldn't stop seeing it. That was a lot of money in Oliver's pocket.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay.
I didn't have any ownership back then, you know, of course. Right.

Speaker 1 But one of the things that,

Speaker 1 you know, between your book and the documentary, both of which I've found fascinating,

Speaker 1 one of the things that I connected to on a personal level was because we're the same vintage. I grew up, came of age in the 70s as a kid.

Speaker 1 And in a documentary, you're showing a lot of footage from your Super 8 films that you're making. And I recognize the jeans.
I recognize the shirts, the jackets.

Speaker 1 I also recognize this idea that there were no helicopter parents back then. You just did whatever you did all day long with your friends.

Speaker 1 My parents never knew what I was up to or what I was doing.

Speaker 1 In my case, not much.

Speaker 1 In your case, a lot. But I was looking at those,

Speaker 1 looking at your Super 8 films, and I was thinking, yeah, I remember this part of my life. That resonates with me so powerfully.

Speaker 1 Killing time with your friends, only in your case, your friends are Sean Penn. And his brother Chris.
Chris, your brother Emilio,

Speaker 1 you're,

Speaker 1 I mean, it's a who's who of very famous actors that you're clowning around with.

Speaker 1 Only you're you're doing the same shit that I was doing in Brookline, Massachusetts with my brothers, only we didn't go on to become iconic movie legends.

Speaker 1 You guys did. Well,

Speaker 1 yeah, and there's two people that are missing from the dock only because they joined the party late. And the choice in the dock to focus on that

Speaker 1 specific

Speaker 1 capture of time.

Speaker 1 And that was Rob and Chad Lowe. So they were also like right down the street.
It was like, what was in the water? Yeah. What was in that point dumb water?

Speaker 1 And was Rob moisturizing back then as a child?

Speaker 1 He must have been. He must have been.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It just, that guy kills me. What is he? He killed me.
My face rotting like a pumpkin

Speaker 1 in the hot late October sun.

Speaker 1 And I've had talks with him, and I remember I was talking to him once, and he reached into his pocket and it came out, and there was like a little packet in there, and he was like, squeeze.

Speaker 1 Is that true? Did that happen? I think it happened. I think it happened.
But he, you know, some internal clock went off that must moisturize. But yes,

Speaker 1 I don't know if he'll outlive me, but his face will outlive me by 120 years. All of us.
Yeah. All of us.

Speaker 1 But one of the things that was fascinating about watching the doc was you're making these very innocent films with your friends.

Speaker 1 Then you go off because your dad, Martin Sheen, is going to shoot Apocalypse Now.

Speaker 1 You and

Speaker 1 your family join him.

Speaker 1 When you come home from Apocalypse Now, spending a long time in the Philippines, your films change in tone, and you actually have some of the props from Apocalypse Now, like a severed hand,

Speaker 1 you brought stuff back, and suddenly all of the films go from ha ha, oops, we fell down, right? Whoops, I went boom, yay, hippie, woo!

Speaker 1 And then you come back from shooting that, and it's people shooting themselves, shooting each other,

Speaker 1 hands flying,

Speaker 1 body parts. Yeah.
Your oeuvre completely changed. It did.
It did.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I guess the

Speaker 1 violence,

Speaker 1 the pure spectacle,

Speaker 1 the sheer amount of blood and body parts on apocalypse, like just like a red, you know, like on a Tuesday. Yeah.
You know, just seeing that.

Speaker 1 But also starting to like get

Speaker 1 in touch with,

Speaker 1 you know, not not with the emotional aspects of FX makeup and gore and all that, but with the technical filmic versions of it, you know, and then wanting so badly to emulate that and bring that home.

Speaker 1 And then basically

Speaker 1 it went from the stuff you talked about to our prop department just being

Speaker 1 guns and blanks and blood. That was it.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's really funny to see that change. Some of that's age, but also you were just on the set of apocalypse now for a long time.
Right. There's skulls everywhere.
There's skulls everywhere.

Speaker 1 The heads.

Speaker 1 You're looking at the heads. I mean, there's a lot of people.
This is you at catering. Yeah.
It's just

Speaker 1 skulls and bodies. And I'm just here for a taco.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You

Speaker 1 had these friends who were becoming famous. And then you had your brother.
Emilio becomes very famous, huge star.

Speaker 1 And then there's the whole brat pack phenomenon, all those guys and gals and I remembered I came out to LA in 85 and I have a very clear memory of working at Sunset Gower Studios as a 22 year old walking up the street to make a deposit at the Wells Fargo on Sunset in Hollywood and all of a sudden I saw this Jeep roar open Jeep roar past and it was Emilio and Demi and Rob they were all in they were all going yay

Speaker 1 and they went by me and I remember thinking, oh, boy, if only I could be in that jeep. That's how I talked back then.
Of course, surgery. We all did.

Speaker 1 Your early movies where you're like, I'm going to go to Wall Street.

Speaker 1 So glad they did ADR and fixed that. Yeah.
You are around that. And I was thinking, oh, right, you'd have been around the rap, but no one knows who you are yet.
And what did that feel like?

Speaker 1 It felt awful.

Speaker 1 It felt, I felt like I was just, you know, taking up the rear. I felt like a valet on certain nights.

Speaker 1 Even when I was in the mix, like we'd start at the Hard Rock Cafe and then we'd get, you know, wherever the night took us to all the VIP lounges and all the special places where you'd, you know, try to hang out with the untouchables, you know, not, not, not the band, like, you know, actual

Speaker 1 super famous people.

Speaker 1 But I never,

Speaker 1 it felt the, the, the worst was when

Speaker 1 all the attention from all the pretty girls, you know, and, they would all

Speaker 1 go home with them, you know, and I would just go home.

Speaker 1 And it was, and I just, but it was in, I think there's a line in the book that my, my, my inner bear had been poked and it, and it, and it lit a fire. You could see from the fucking moon, you know.

Speaker 1 You knew on some level, because had you been a different person, you might have said, well, gee, I'd like to be in their situation, but that's not really my thing.

Speaker 1 It almost seems to me like you had this subconscious knowledge. I'm supposed to be one of the people that everybody knows.

Speaker 1 Well, that, or at least be part of

Speaker 1 all of the perks. You know, I didn't give a shit about acting.
I was looking at that, just like,

Speaker 1 you know, if I can just

Speaker 1 give a shit about acting. No, if I can just get a job that everybody like, you know, lines up to go see,

Speaker 1 then that's how my nights will end.

Speaker 1 I mean, seriously, that's kind of

Speaker 1 the inspiration. You are honest to a fault.
fault. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 I only got into comedy to do good works. Right, I know.
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 I'm not familiar with these perks you speak of. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have nine Bentleys duct taped together.
I'm going to drive home.

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Speaker 1 He was very unhappy. He wasn't doing well on social media.
So we had a little to nip and tuck. Yeah, it was a good time.

Speaker 1 No, I would never have done that. It was a good time.
I never did that.

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Speaker 1 The fact that you can just order concert tickets through her, that's crazy. Yeah, exactly.
You didn't know that? Even I knew that. Wow.
Yeah. And I fought in World War I and I know that.

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Speaker 1 there's so much i really recommend the documentary because there's so much in it yes there's all these harrowing tales that you have there are moments where i

Speaker 1 as you as your star rises and you're self-medicating and you're, you're, uh, getting into all kinds of stuff where I'm like, okay, that's not me.

Speaker 1 Like, there's a scene where you're actually being very valiant. You're trying to help a woman out who's in a bad situation.
She's in a house with kind of a violent guy.

Speaker 1 And you say, well, I, I went to the, I knew she was in there with this tough guy. So I went out to my trunk of my car and popped it open and I took out my, and you know the exact makeup

Speaker 1 makeup model of the gun. Yeah, it was an HK hk p7 m13

Speaker 1 okay yeah not the way i go no i go for a glock m8944 slash b carry the three they were sold out of those okay the day i bought the hk yeah okay no no no that's still out there i think of it always as a ladies' handgun but anyway

Speaker 1 it shoots bubbles what do you what do you want um no you you uh you yeah why was i so specific about that in the dock in the dock it stood out to me like

Speaker 1 you rattle off the name of the gun and you like chamber around and put it in your waistband. I'm like, okay,

Speaker 1 you're an actor. What are you doing?

Speaker 1 Well, you know, rolling through a dangerous neighborhood, right? So I figured I should pack a little heat. But it's in the trunk of your car.
Right.

Speaker 1 But it's.

Speaker 1 Could you pardon me for a minute, sir? I'll take care of you. If you don't mind, I'll step out of the car.

Speaker 1 Get my in the trunk if you don't mind. Yeah, wait, all my wallet's in the trunk.

Speaker 1 Hang in, buddy.

Speaker 1 No, but it still came in handy. It did.
That was a tough guy moment, though, that doesn't really speak to like who I claim to be or want to be.

Speaker 1 But it did feel dangerous enough that I needed to be armed in that moment, in that creepy place, to help her out. Yeah.
I just, I'm really glad I didn't have to shoot anybody. Yeah.
Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because that's when it gets messed up. Do you need confirmation?

Speaker 1 I mean, it gets.

Speaker 1 no. I say it would be good if you shot up the place.
Okay.

Speaker 1 But that's when it gets messy. Yes.
You know? Yeah. And

Speaker 1 not like our Super 8 movies. Right, right.
This is the real thing.

Speaker 1 Is this disallowed? Are we like not?

Speaker 1 I don't see any issue with that. I have no issue with it at all.
It's just nicotine. Yeah.
I have no issue at all. I mean, yeah, I'm fine with it.
Vape away. Okay.

Speaker 1 No, I was going to say he was doing something else since it's audio. Yeah.
He said, is this okay? And he started removing his clothes. Can you imagine? He just pulled out a Hector and Cox 79B.

Speaker 1 Is this okay if I fire upon Conan?

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, I don't have no problem with it.

Speaker 1 But back to that night. Yeah.
Yeah, with Sandy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm not doing this in any particular order. It's just as things come to me.
And one of the things that comes to me is, which makes me sad, but you are.

Speaker 1 Very evocative of another very handsome, very talented, extremely verbally funny person that I got to know a little bit, not super well, but Matthew Perry. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 He came on my show just as friends was hitting, and he got there early. And I remembered us just chatting in 30 Rock in the hallway,

Speaker 1 taking a little walk and laughing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I just thought, damn, this guy's so, as you are, verbally dexterous, funny. Then I find out that you guys actually became friendly before he passed away.
We did.

Speaker 1 Which makes complete sense to me. Sure.
Sure.

Speaker 1 I wish that I had stayed in better touch with him or just stayed more available.

Speaker 1 His orbit was

Speaker 1 a hard one to penetrate, you know,

Speaker 1 or his ecosystem or whatever,

Speaker 1 which isn't unsurprising because

Speaker 1 when people need to be insulated

Speaker 1 to hide or protect the things that they're doing,

Speaker 1 the less people getting

Speaker 1 fast the velvet rope, the better, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That makes sense. I just.
But I read his book and I read it in a day. And I just, I started it.
And I was like, okay, I don't want to do anything else until I finish this.

Speaker 1 And then I wanted to reach out to him.

Speaker 1 And then, you know,

Speaker 1 kids and stuff and life. And I was like, I'll call him tomorrow.
I'll call him next week. But I wanted to just congratulate him and have a laugh about how I was included in his book.

Speaker 1 yeah that there's one line where he says fuck charlie sheen i'm gonna be just as famous one day you know he was like using me like i used a millio and rob and dad and the rest of them you know um and i never got to reach out and and first of all thank him for that and and congratulate him on the book and then he i think died a month after i read it yeah you know yeah it was that it was there there was a moment um in my childhood there's a uh there was a coffee house in malibu and it sits like it it was there for years and they finally tore it down, like they get rid of everything cool, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I think I was 11 or 12, I had decided that Jaws was the greatest film ever made, right?

Speaker 1 And I saw it in the movie theater a hundred times, like in a movie theater, because it played in theaters for a year or longer. So anyway, in the middle of that, probably 40 showings into that, right?

Speaker 1 Dad drops me off at that diner and I go and sit down. He says, I'll park the car and I'll join you in a minute.
Right.

Speaker 1 So he's, I'm waiting for him and a person sits down next to me and I turn and look at him and it's Roy Schneider. Oh, wow.
It's Chief Brody. Yeah.
And I'm frozen. I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 I literally don't,

Speaker 1 there's no languages available. There's no, I mean, I'm 12, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then he was there just briefly. Dad took a while with the car.
They knew each other from New York. That introduction could have been like, oh, hey, by the way, it's my son, right? He leaves.

Speaker 1 dad shows up, and I say,

Speaker 1 Chief Brody was just here, right? And he says, ah, it's too bad. I know him.
I could have introduced you. So then that's, so I never, I never got to tell him that, right?

Speaker 1 And I was always like, Jesus, if I ever saw, you know, if I ever see him out in the world, then, you know,

Speaker 1 I'll say, wow, I was a child in this thing. But during two and a half, Holland Taylor played my mom, she knew him.
And so she got that message to him. Oh, that's good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, before he passed, you know, but it was another one of those things. It was with Matthew that it was kind of, it was, it reminded me of the

Speaker 1 Schider missed opportunity. Yeah.
Yeah. That, I mean, Matthew wrote very honestly about his experiences and must have rang a lot of bells with you about those demons and what it's like

Speaker 1 to have that kind of

Speaker 1 to be wrestling with that level of addiction. Yes.
And his story, I think, took us more through

Speaker 1 a lot of the,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 just

Speaker 1 a lot of the stuff that he dealt with specifically

Speaker 1 with rehabs and with detoxes and with that whole world that tends to

Speaker 1 cycle people. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 That sort of the business model is to rely on relapse.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to get yelled at for saying that, but there's that, that's, it's really true, you know, and then they can probably happen insidiously where it starts out one way, but then things can become a business.

Speaker 1 And then you want a return customer sometimes. And I mean,

Speaker 1 I'm asking, I'm not telling because I don't know.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1 That is accurate. Okay.
Well, the lawsuit's on you then. Yeah, it's fine.
It's fine. Once again, add it to the stack.

Speaker 1 There's actually seven stacks behind you of lawsuits.

Speaker 1 But I could relate to a lot of that and just being at the mercy of people all the time and just giving away, giving up your power and giving up your agency and giving up just

Speaker 1 the light that makes you special, you know, and it just, that just being dimmed, you know.

Speaker 1 Plus, I never did the freaking drug that he,

Speaker 1 you know, was it

Speaker 1 ketamine, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The other thing that I'm, I'm grateful that, you know, I was never involved.

Speaker 1 My heaviest drug use

Speaker 1 never included fentanyl. Yeah.
So that was

Speaker 1 just a good chance you wouldn't be here.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Exactly.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 My ex-wife Brooke was engaged to a guy who had a nice business, you know, former athlete, young dude, good looking, but couldn't stop getting loaded and wound up in rehab again and scored dope, some cocaine in rehab and went into the bathroom and did a couple of big lines and died on his way to the floor.

Speaker 1 So it's like, and that was fentanyl. Yeah.
You know, and I just think about, my gosh, how many situations was I in where

Speaker 1 we couldn't like order the fentanyl test strips on Amazon back then, right? I mean, it was just you can now, you're saying?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 yeah, yeah, you can, right? Yeah, right. I thought you might order fentanyl on Amazon.
Oh, no, the test strips. Oh, Danny, for a second, I was like, well, hold on.
Yeah. My phone's right here.

Speaker 1 We're rapping early.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I misheard you.

Speaker 1 Sorry. But

Speaker 1 it's not like today when you can just get fentanyl on Amazon.

Speaker 1 There's another lawsuit, but not me. Again, you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you talk about, there was a great quote where you said that you and Matthew Perry,

Speaker 1 you had a friend of yours that described you guys as veterans of the unspeakable. Yeah.
And that's a Downey quote. Is it Jim Downey? No, Robert Downey Jr.
Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a Downey quote. Most people say Downey quote, and I go to Jim Downey, that's an awesome comedy writer.
That's awesome. And you go to that other Downey who no one knows.

Speaker 1 Is that him? Maybe one day. Maybe there's another really funny,

Speaker 1 very funny, verbally dexterous guy, Brian actor.

Speaker 1 And a lovely man. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I gave him a new nickname in my book. I call him Bobby DJ.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 that's pretty good, right? I like Bobby DJ. Rolls right off the tongue, right? Yeah.
Yeah, Bobby DJ. Okay, well,

Speaker 1 I don't have one of those.

Speaker 1 I have a,

Speaker 1 I'm not going to say guilty pleasure because usually when you say, oh, I, I, I watch these comedies on reruns, but I'm, I'm friendly with one of your directors on Two and a Half Men, Jamie Widows.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Who's

Speaker 1 a lovely guy? One of the great people ever. Yes.
Yeah. He's a lovely guy.
He's hilariously funny. A lot of you will know him.
Like, wait a minute, how do I know that? You know, great.

Speaker 1 TV director, but Animal House. Yeah.
He's in Animal House. He's Hoover, I believe.
Oh. In Animal House.
You know,

Speaker 1 now, hold on a second, Dean. You know, you sit down, you know, that

Speaker 1 smart guy.

Speaker 1 And he tells great stories from that set. He has great stories about Belushi.
He has great stories. I mean, I got to get him on here to tell those great stories.

Speaker 1 But his price is high.

Speaker 1 So wait, anyway, he talks about you should be getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Interesting.
Wow. They skipped that part.
Yeah. No, no.

Speaker 1 Two and a half men. Anytime that show is on, I'll watch it.
Seriously? Yeah, because your character in that is funny in a way, because I'm such a comedy nerd. I'm like, this is a little different.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to think of who else has been funny in this way. It feels very original to me to be playing that rhythm on a sitcom.
It just felt unique to me. You feel like there's some precedence for it?

Speaker 1 Well, yeah,

Speaker 1 I was borrowing or honoring parts of it from Ted Danson. Right.
Yeah. From cheers.
Yeah. But it's darker.
It is darker. It is darker.
It had to be somewhat likable. Of course.

Speaker 1 That didn't seem to trouble your character at all, being likable. You know, like he's, there's, you still like your character.
Right, right, right. You're not afraid to say the most horrendous things.

Speaker 1 Right, because

Speaker 1 I had confidence that

Speaker 1 whatever

Speaker 1 that my character would wind up doing, that they he would ultimately always be forgiven. I've watched the blocking on that show.
I think you burn four calories an episode.

Speaker 1 You're always very comfortably dressed. Right.

Speaker 1 And you're always usually sitting one leg crossed over the other with a beer.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 other people can have complete meltdowns or John can have a complete meltdown. You're watching, you've got some great jokes.
Sure.

Speaker 1 Then cut to you in bed with an incredibly different, beautiful woman every week. And you're like,

Speaker 1 wait a minute, did you win some kind of contest? Must have. Must have, yes.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 that's an aspect to it that nobody complained about. Yeah.
Yeah. The actors or the audience.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
And interestingly enough,

Speaker 1 I was either married or in some relationship. No, it was only two relationships during the entirety of two and a half.

Speaker 1 It was either with Denise, married, and then that went bad, and then Brooke married, and then that went bad. So anybody you see me dating on the show was just on the show,

Speaker 1 which kind of sucked.

Speaker 1 I love that you're acting like, I know it's hard to believe, but I didn't actually sleep with that woman in that scene. That's usually the case.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is going to be hard for you to believe, but I've interviewed thousands and thousands of women over 30 years of television, and guess what? I didn't sleep with any of them. Seriously? Wow.

Speaker 1 How is that possible?

Speaker 1 Thanks, pal. Thanks, sorry.

Speaker 1 Okay, B, Arthur.

Speaker 1 Wow. Wow, you brought wrote B into it.
I had to. Wow.
I had to. You mentioned that you watch it whenever it's on.
Right. Do you know who else does? My parents.

Speaker 1 Your parents. My parents will stop what they're doing.
And if they finish dinner or they're about, then two and a half is on, they'll just sit down. That's fair.
And then they'll just take it in.

Speaker 1 And then I'll show up at the house the next day, right? And I'll be like, hey, we watched this episode where so-and-so does this. And then the kid did that.

Speaker 1 And then, so what, why did John do that other thing? And I'm like, mom,

Speaker 1 I don't, I, I can't answer that question. I don't remember the episode.
You know what I'm saying? They want specific details. Oh, I know.
You know what I'm saying? And

Speaker 1 I'm like, okay, give me a little bit of backstory. And all the backstories are identical.
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 It's the week you threw John out of the house. I'm like,

Speaker 1 I'm like,

Speaker 1 I need more.

Speaker 1 I need more, mom.

Speaker 1 You're slightly

Speaker 1 unpleasant.

Speaker 1 You're skeptical that something John's trying to do is going to work out. Right.
And you're drunk in the scene. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You immediately throw one woman over for another. What happened in that episode?

Speaker 1 I really like watching you and John cry or

Speaker 1 scenes together. There's a really nice, real chemistry there.

Speaker 1 Thank you. And I know I was happy.
Because I'm friendly with John and I know that you guys went through stuff and that could not have been easy for John. Sure, I was very happy that he participated.

Speaker 1 I was too. Because

Speaker 1 it felt like

Speaker 1 there was a bit of a let's put that behind us, let's come together, which I thought was for the most part. There was the most part, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1 You say, for the most part, who's who he's because there's a couple moments in the dock where he's still kind of hacking on me a little bit, you know, and then he's questioning like if he should be in the dock because you know, is it going to be another sheen

Speaker 1 experience that starts great and finishes in the toilet? Right, right. So I proved him wrong this time.

Speaker 1 Have you, though? Because many people consider coming on this podcast to be a rock bottom.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I went through all of your experiences, both in the book and the dock. Right.
This is your rock bottom. Okay.
Okay. This beats you going to the trunk of your car for

Speaker 1 MI 1533. 28, 33.

Speaker 1 23, what what is it? 36, so whatever. There was a different time.
When you watch 60s movies, that joke about women's measurements all the time that people did back then. What is it? She's 24, 30.

Speaker 1 I forget how 36, 20, 36. Yeah, yeah, whatever.

Speaker 1 And you're like, what? You watch it now and it's just a standard thing. Like, she's 36, you know, 24, 36.
Wow. You're like, you're listing her bust and hip measurements.
What?

Speaker 1 I've never understood it.

Speaker 1 Clearly.

Speaker 1 There doesn't need to be math in that moment.

Speaker 1 You're taking what should be a beautiful moment and

Speaker 1 reducing it to

Speaker 1 ratios.

Speaker 1 The ratio of hip to breast is quite pleasing. It's the golden mean the Greeks discussed.
Pythagorean theorem.

Speaker 1 Your

Speaker 1 Emilio is not in and your dad's not in. Is that

Speaker 1 do you,

Speaker 1 I think you mentioned at one point you wish they were in the dock, but it they maybe felt like they don't want to speak to all of this. I don't know.
They watched a

Speaker 1 rough cut of the first episode at my house with the director, Andrew Renzi. Ramon was there.
Mom was there. And

Speaker 1 they loved it. They were so entertained.
They were laughing. They were just like, they were so engaged.
And then they both said,

Speaker 1 you know, dad said, I'm already in this thing. I'm already represented in this thing and i and i like the way i look in that better than today

Speaker 1 he says he said you don't want an actor thing he said you don't want the old version of me you know and i'm like well kind of i mean well you know it's that's the authentic moment right now

Speaker 1 and so so he said no no no i i can't and then emilio they both decided that that or came to a realization that they it was my story and and even though they're they're you know part of my life and obviously the whole journey um they didn't want to get in the way of my story.

Speaker 1 They didn't want to

Speaker 1 in any way put it through their own

Speaker 1 filters or

Speaker 1 in ways that might misrepresent some of the stuff, how it actually happened. You know, they didn't want to get in the way.
But of course, the press jumps on it and they're like, they're not in it.

Speaker 1 What's the backstory? What's the feud?

Speaker 1 And there's like none.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 your dad has a very special place in my heart because early on when I was doing my show in 93, 94, and people were saying, what is this? Who is this guy? This comedy is aggressively strange.

Speaker 1 We had a bit where it's very hard to explain, but it was stay-in-your-seat theater where we would.

Speaker 1 It's already funny. It's already funny.
Well, we would have, we needed someone with gravitas

Speaker 1 who would, I think it was a medical drama, and we needed an actor, a guest who would be the medical drama.

Speaker 1 But what happened is we had other actors with green screen um sort of felt over their faces moving to different positions and then when their line came up we would take someone from the audience literally a person who had been waiting in line outside rock forest center 20 minutes ago their face would suddenly be put on the actors bodies they're just sitting in their seat do you remember i don't know if anyone has seen this but you they would project it's early early aggressively weird stuff your dad said he'd do it and so i mean we never thought Martin Sheen would do this.

Speaker 1 And he'd be the superimposed face. No, no, he, he was the actual guy.
He's Martin Sheen as the doctor. And then he'd turn to another doctor and go, what's the diagnosis?

Speaker 1 And we'd be just a, you know, a body there with the green sock on. Right.

Speaker 1 And then someone from the audience who's just sitting in their seat, who's from the Bronx, their face would be there doing a scene.

Speaker 1 And they would just, we'd hold up a cue card and they'd say, three CC's of Palo Homa Samosone. And your dad would go like, great.
And then one more thing, I'm in love with you. you know, and

Speaker 1 your dad just went to the bottom. Did he commit to it? The whole thing? He didn't.
I mean, of course he did. Wow.
He committed to it a thousand percent. That's amazing.
And I, he was lovely to me.

Speaker 1 And we had a great conversation. And I've always just had a, that is just a, I mean, who does that? Especially with his stature, you know,

Speaker 1 this new guy, something that's bound to fail. Let's do it.

Speaker 1 Sign me up. Yeah, exactly.
So, well, I'm glad that you guys are, and you talk about this. I didn't realize that Emilio was the first choice that Oliver Stone wanted for Platoon.
Interesting, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Interesting isn't the word. I know, I know.

Speaker 1 It's

Speaker 1 bananas?

Speaker 1 Let's go with interesting.

Speaker 1 Let's not use a fruit.

Speaker 1 But no, it. I mean, first of all, stuff between siblings and brothers, especially, I think can be, and I shouldn't say that, sisters too, but stuff between brothers is extremely loaded.

Speaker 1 Then you're both saying, let's do this acting thing. You're, you know, Emilio's first having success.

Speaker 1 Then there's this, what turns out to be a very important film, very important big director, and Emilio is their first choice. He's going to do it.

Speaker 1 And then something happens, the project gets delayed. And then they come around and they say, well, Charlie, Oliver, wants to see you for it now.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 How heavy is that?

Speaker 1 It's, man, it's, it's a trip. Emilio and I like never had that moment where we like sat down and processed it or even gave it the,

Speaker 1 you know, it never existed between us that we felt that we needed to, you know,

Speaker 1 because it wasn't like that, that didn't work out for him and then he did nothing.

Speaker 1 You know, he did a ton of cool shit and films that people are still talking about to this day, you know.

Speaker 1 You know, I didn't mean to speak for him, but he told me that he didn't love the script.

Speaker 1 He didn't love the script. And then

Speaker 1 if you ever have him on, there's a story with him and Tom Cruise like jogging on the beach. That's already a great image, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Slow motion, the whole thing.

Speaker 1 And they're talking about the script of Platoon. They're kind of comparing notes.
And Amelia's like, well, what about this thing?

Speaker 1 What about when he, you know, and then when the bunny character pees in the, in the dead VC's face and calls him this thing, you know, and like, what about all that?

Speaker 1 And Tom's like, yeah, man, that's pretty gnarly. And, and so it, uh, I don't think that's it.
How about we us losing the Vietnam War? That's a drag. That part.

Speaker 1 We should win it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But so I don't, I don't think Emilio really felt like he missed out on a fantastic opportunity, which is interesting until he saw it and was like, oh, shit. But I think he sees that

Speaker 1 it just would have been a slightly different film with him than it was with me because that is, I think that is the only part that we've ever,

Speaker 1 what's the cross swords on? No, that's not right.

Speaker 1 What is the thing? It's the image in my head now.

Speaker 1 I'm changing that.

Speaker 1 It's the only role that ever

Speaker 1 penis is touched. Yes.
Yes. I'm trying to help you.
Am I helping? At the premiere.

Speaker 1 So what the hell?

Speaker 1 That's not in the dock, is it?

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 1 I wanted to save something good for this, you know?

Speaker 1 Sorry, Melio. Now I've done it.

Speaker 1 Directed by Bradley Cooper, Is This Thing On is an intimate and hopeful portrait of a man on the precipice of divorce as he navigates navigates reinvention, reconnection, and redemption in middle age.

Speaker 1 We meet Alex in the wake of his separation from Tess, looking for community and catharsis, and he stumbles into the New York comedy scene.

Speaker 1 Through comedy, Alex discovers a passion and sense of purpose just as Tess embarked on her own journey of self-discovery.

Speaker 1 Deadline calls Is This Thing On a brilliant and profound explanation of marriage. It stars Will Arnett, our good friend, Laura Dern, Andrew Day, and Bradley Cooper.

Speaker 1 Is This Thing On is an exploration of identity, self-fulfillment, and second chances. And I got to say, I love all things Will Arnett.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's really dear to me, and I thought he killed it in this movie. You guys saw it too.

Speaker 2 I loved everybody in it, too. Yeah, I thought it was a really cool story.
I really loved it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it's really hard to make stand-up comedy feel like legitimate, and it really did that in an amazing way. Also, and I hate to make it about me, but I also have used comedy as catharsis.

Speaker 1 And I think someone should make a movie about me and my journey. And Will Arnett should play me.

Speaker 1 Now playing in select theaters everywhere, January 9th. Get tickets today.

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Speaker 1 Well, this is another story that's fascinating. You give a verbal commitment or you sign a contract to do Grizzly 2 Revenge.
Right. It was originally called Grizzly 2 the Predator.

Speaker 1 Just for anybody, any cinephiles out there that think I'm violating

Speaker 1 the true spirit of the Grizzly franchise. Well, I'm just going to tell you.

Speaker 1 I saw Grizzly 2 Revenge in the theater 75 times. I'll thank you to respect the sanctity of my favorite film series,

Speaker 1 regardless of whether you are in it.

Speaker 1 I'm out of it. I move to dismiss.

Speaker 1 Motion denied.

Speaker 1 But you know, you, this is the crazy story. So you've said, yes, I'll do Grizzly 2 Revenge, which, by the way,

Speaker 1 also stars George Clooney and

Speaker 1 Laura Dern. So a lot of great talent came out of Grizzly 2.
And the Bear has gone on to

Speaker 1 now the, yeah, yeah, he's got that whole, that whole honey company.

Speaker 1 That's stupid. That was stupid.
He's the Paul Newman.

Speaker 1 That was a house. He's the Paul Newman of honey.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All profits go to me.

Speaker 1 But you know, you say you're going to do that, and then you get this call that they want you to be the star of the karate kid. That happened.
Yes. And take it.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I think it was on a Friday, and

Speaker 1 I went and

Speaker 1 auditioned with

Speaker 1 Abeltson, correct?

Speaker 1 We have a research team here. Yeah.
With John Abelson. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 I thought the

Speaker 1 audition was a disaster. Right.
And it was the scene where he wakes up from the beating of the bullies, right? And he wakes up

Speaker 1 to his, to this, you know, this mystical sensei, right?

Speaker 1 And so to Pat Merida. And then

Speaker 1 the dialogue was kind of stilted and didn't really have any kind of flow

Speaker 1 like it did in that scene, but it's not supposed to. That's kind of their first encounter, isn't it? Yes, yeah.
Yeah. So this should be a little tentative.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I thought I tanked it and I, on the drive home, I was like, all right, let's just park that and just do better next time.
You know, and I get to Glennis Liberty's apartment in Santa Monica.

Speaker 1 She's my very first agent, right? Who actually got her agent's license because I decided that like I was going to become an actor. Wow.

Speaker 1 You know, and she was a friend of my mom's, but she worked for Pollock and Redford, and, you know, she knew her way around.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 we would usually have like a chalk talk at the end of the day of auditions and stuff like that. And she was on the street, like, looking for me, and I thought somebody had died.

Speaker 1 And I pull up and she like runs right up to me. And she's like crying and babbling and just so excited, I couldn't believe it.
And I'm like, slow down, slow down, slow down. What's going on?

Speaker 1 And she said,

Speaker 1 they need you

Speaker 1 in karate training on Monday. You got the party.
Well, I'm like, well, hold on. Today's Friday.
So, and she's like, yes,

Speaker 1 you're going to be the karate kid. It's like the biggest film in town, right? And I'm like,

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 1 but I have to,

Speaker 1 I got the thing with the bear. I got the Predator thing.
And where is that shooting? That shooting in Budapest? Budapest, yeah. And not like when it's cool to be in Budapest, you know?

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 she said, well, I'm sure there's, you know, I'm sure there's a way to get you out of that. And, and, and, you know, what should I tell them?

Speaker 1 And I said, I just tell them that maybe if we could just have the weekend, you know?

Speaker 1 So I took the weekend and went to dad and I said, hey, I got this amazing opportunity, like a career-making move, this giant movie that I think is,

Speaker 1 you know, it's got hit written all over it. You know, it's a game changer.
And he says, and I said, so help me out.

Speaker 1 Give me like a cool way to get out of the grizzly thing. And he didn't even, he didn't even offer anything in that regard.
He, he just said, well, so you gave them your word, right?

Speaker 1 And I'm like, the grizzly people. Yeah.
I'm like, well, yeah, but it's the thing with the bear in Budapest,

Speaker 1 it's totally forgettable. Anyone can get eaten by a bear, dad, right?

Speaker 1 And he's like, he's like.

Speaker 1 I've narrowly beat out a side of ham.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 And he said, it's not about that. It's not about that.
It's about that,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 one big film is in this business. It's not going to carry you as far as

Speaker 1 being known as a man of their word.

Speaker 1 So I had to sell that to Glennis, you know, and she was like, yeah, have you lost your mind? And then after a while, she agreed with Pop. And so

Speaker 1 how was it when Karate Kid comes out and it's huge?

Speaker 1 Was that must have stung a little bit? A lot of it. Did you go and see it? A lot of it.
Did you go and see it in the theater with the bear?

Speaker 1 I picture both of you.

Speaker 1 Oh, you fucked up.

Speaker 1 It's just got a big paw.

Speaker 1 You're taking more than your share.

Speaker 1 You're splitting up. They offered me the part of Miyagi.

Speaker 1 The bear could have been Miyagi.

Speaker 1 This is great. The bear was supposed to be Miyagi.
You were supposed to be Ralph Macchio. The whole thing's fucked.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 But he went with, oh, everyone just sees me as the thing that chases people and eats me. Because I'm a bear.
But anyway. I saw it in the movie theater, like on a Friday night.

Speaker 1 And it was interesting. It was,

Speaker 1 it was a

Speaker 1 strange mashup of intense jealousy, right? And missed opportunity, all that stuff. But add to that relief.

Speaker 1 There was a relief. And I don't know how to explain what that was about.
I think Ralph was so freaking good in that movie, right? Yep. That I was looking at ways like,

Speaker 1 how would I have done that differently? How would I have done that at all?

Speaker 1 and I was kind of like, okay, I think I kind of dodged a bullet here. I don't think they would have filmed the whole movie with me.
I think they would have been like, okay, cool.

Speaker 1 No, you gave it a hell of an effort, kid. But, you know,

Speaker 1 but also

Speaker 1 I've had that experience at my age now where I can look back, the things that I missed out on that I was convinced were essential

Speaker 1 to me moving ahead that devastated me at the time. Sure.

Speaker 1 Now I see them and I go, well, they don't fit this arc that I have at all. Interesting.
They just don't. Interesting.
Yeah. And

Speaker 1 you could not if I got in a time machine. On my way here today, there was some street work.
So I had to pass my old apartment on Cochran. I had a $380 a month apartment, 1986.

Speaker 1 I lived on the first floor way in the back. I looked out on an alley and I passed that apartment.
I always slow down if I'm in that neighborhood and look at that apartment

Speaker 1 because it's going to sound weird, but I almost feel like there's a ghost of me from 1985 that I used to sit on the steps of those apartment, of that apartment complex and think like, how am I going to make this thing work?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 And so every now and then I'm like, I'm on my way to go talk to Charlie Sheen and I've had a pretty good run, but I'll stop and sort of honor that moment at that apartment at that time.

Speaker 1 If I could talk to that guy now and say, trust me, the gig that you, where it's between you and another guy to go work, be a writer, performer for Letterman, and you didn't get it.

Speaker 1 And they only hire like one person every three years and that you're not going to be on that boat. I still think that kid would have said, you're out of your mind.
That was my chance and it's over.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to make it. Right.
And I've had like nine of those, you know, and but you, but then you look at it later on and you go, no, you weren't supposed to do karate kid.

Speaker 1 It wasn't supposed to happen. No, no.
And and um because that trajectory, that choice changes other choices. So then you're not going to to get platoon, you're not going to get

Speaker 1 you're not going to get Wall Street, you're not going to get none of those things happen if you do probably not.

Speaker 1 Probably not.

Speaker 1 And, you know,

Speaker 1 following like that amazing in-theater experience with, you know, the karate kid as we know it,

Speaker 1 I didn't work for like eight months after that.

Speaker 1 And then I started writing stories about, okay, gosh, maybe they've, maybe they've tried to blackball me because I said no to their big, you know, their big event franchise film, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 it just, so that sort of compounded the,

Speaker 1 you know, the funk that

Speaker 1 that left me in, you know. And you did contemplate like, I could be a cinematographer.
I could be an AD, like I could get into this business in another way if this doesn't work out. Sure.

Speaker 1 That was more really

Speaker 1 because I had done all of those jobs in our Super 8 world.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm not saying I did them well, but I had enough knowledge about, you know, what, what happened on both sides of the camera, you know, and that was sort of the pitch to my parents at the breakfast table that first morning of summer after, you know, being kicked out of high school.

Speaker 1 I kind of sold them on this thing. And it's in the book.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's in the doc, but I said, look,

Speaker 1 I'm going to give the acting thing a shot. You know, I'm just going to spend this first summer of freedom just auditioning and just see where that takes me.
If that doesn't work out, then

Speaker 1 the kind of the, not a big lie, but the medium-sized lie that I told them was that I'll, I'll go to film school and I'll learn how to, you know, I'll be an editor or director or cinematographer.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and so I just wanted them to feel like

Speaker 1 there was a backup plan that

Speaker 1 wasn't

Speaker 1 the same one that dad had struggled with for so long in his early years. You know,

Speaker 1 And they bought it. They bought it.
You know, they thought, okay,

Speaker 1 yeah. He wants to be a botanist.

Speaker 1 Did

Speaker 1 you, you also, and you talk about this, you had to sell your, your dad on changing your name. Yeah.
Which is a moment. It was a moment.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I just, um,

Speaker 1 you know, your original name, Carlos Esteves. Right.
But Carlos had already been Charlie from, in, throughout childhood

Speaker 1 because we've had an uncle Carlos, dad's brother. And so some of them would yell, hey, Carlos, and we'd both like, come in the room.
And that, you know, we had to put a stop to that, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's only room for one Carlos. Yeah.
And seniority rules in that moment.

Speaker 1 So I became Charlie and then I was Estevez all the way through high school. And then when I made the change or when I decided to

Speaker 1 give this thing a shot, I sat with him and I said, I really want to use Sheen. It's got a bit of a ring to it.
You know, Emilio's already using Estevez. And that way

Speaker 1 you've got both bookends of your heritage

Speaker 1 represented out in the world. You're a good salesman.
Thank you. You are so good.
I'm in the wrong business. Well, you and I should start an advertising agency.
I'd love to. I would love to.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I just, I just, yeah. And I meant you say to your dad, like, I can see it in lights, pop.
Right.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Charlie Sheen, you weren't wrong, you know.
I mean,

Speaker 1 I just, it was, plus, it was easier to say. Yeah.
You know, what's your name? I'm Charlie Sheen. Even though when I walked in here, it stumped me.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's like on camera. That's going to be on like YouTube.
Yeah, I know. I know.
You're screwed. You're screwed.
Hi, my name is. Well,

Speaker 1 I don't want to take all your time. I'm going to say this.
First of all, you said you wanted to hand me something. Yes, yes.
But I don't know if you still do. Maybe you change your mind.
I know.

Speaker 1 I absolutely did not change my mind.

Speaker 1 You and I had a banter that I think ran over the course of a couple years.

Speaker 1 And it was during Spin City. Remember, I was on on the zone diet and I was like super thin and like eating nothing.

Speaker 1 But I had this thing on Friday nights that was a treat to myself that was called the McFlurry. Do you remember this? Yes.
And we had great runs about we had, yes, the McFlurry was important to us.

Speaker 1 Yes. And then you said, you would always say, well, has McDonald's reached out and like offered you free food for life or anything great like that? I'm like, no.
Unbelievable. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then you would make jokes like,

Speaker 1 well, why are you out here talking about McFlurry? Why aren't you saying names like Portia and

Speaker 1 Ed's Diamond Store? And remember all yes,

Speaker 1 yes, yes.

Speaker 1 So shortly after that, this shows up in the mail, like no joke. The guy from Arby's,

Speaker 1 the guy from Arby's. Bill Arby?

Speaker 1 You know him? Very soon.

Speaker 1 He sent me that. Oh, my God.
And Arby's free food for life card. Yes.

Speaker 1 I don't know if we can push in on that or, you know, yes, this is, and it's signed on the the back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've been carrying that around for like 20 years.

Speaker 1 I love that you have this. And also, and you're the reason I have it.
You're welcome. You're welcome.

Speaker 1 And can I say one other thing? This,

Speaker 1 I want to know: do you go to Arby's and order everything? And then when they go, wow, so cool to meet you. Oh, and by the way, I'm not paying.

Speaker 1 And you're driving like the nicest car in the world.

Speaker 1 Here's the good news. I've never used it.

Speaker 1 I've never used it. No one's nice to Arby's, but you know, I think Arby's.
I think Arby's, it hasn't changed in years. And that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 They do have the meats. But

Speaker 1 I just,

Speaker 1 I imagined there'd be a line behind me and just what you said. And the guy brings all the stuff.
And I'm like, well, I got this thing. And then he's like, okay, well, there's some paperwork.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
And then I'm like filling stuff out. People are recognizing it.
EMZ shooting it, right? And they're like,

Speaker 1 and then he's like,

Speaker 1 so that's two shakes,

Speaker 1 three roast beef. Like in bananas.
Yeah. Like in the middle of the morning.
Who had the

Speaker 1 saved it, and I don't know. I just had it all these years.
It's just hang on to it. It survived the car.
You know where that needs to go? The trunk of your car. There it is, right next to

Speaker 1 the BPX45.

Speaker 1 So you need to

Speaker 1 to free armies or the dishonest road to free army. We can fly this two ways.

Speaker 1 I rob you of these corned beef sandwiches or I get them for free.

Speaker 1 Either way.

Speaker 1 Either way, I'm leaving here with the meats.

Speaker 1 Charlie Sheen, this is what I'll say. This is one of my favorite sessions.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's up there in the Pantheon. You always,

Speaker 1 since I first met you, a delight to talk to a really funny person. Thank you.
Like

Speaker 1 you have been very honest about your struggles and the craziness. And, you know, I went downstairs and you got here and I just, I told you, we hugged and I said, I'm really glad you're still here.

Speaker 1 Wow, thank you. Because

Speaker 1 we lose all these people. We lose these beautiful people.
We lose these really funny, wonderful, and people, we lose so many people. Sure.
And I'm just very grateful that you're just still with us.

Speaker 1 Thank you. And

Speaker 1 go with God.

Speaker 1 What the hell was that?

Speaker 1 You're very, very religious today. It was powerful.
We'll change it.

Speaker 1 Go with Satan. Satan.
There you go. Go with Satan.

Speaker 1 I already went with Satan. Satan's like, enough with him.

Speaker 1 He wouldn't. He moved in and wouldn't leave.
Go with Arby. Go with Arby.

Speaker 1 Charlie, seriously, thank you so much for being here. Thank you.
This was great. It's an honor.

Speaker 1 Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonoma of Session, and Matt Gorley. Produced by me, Matt Gorley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Frost, and Nick Liao.

Speaker 1 Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.

Speaker 1 Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.

Speaker 1 Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent Booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.

Speaker 1 You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Cocoa Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message.

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Speaker 1 And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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