How AI Is Transforming Cybersecurity & Business | Ephraim Ebstein DSH #1244

put my gun out i was like if he gets too close or he opens his mouth i'm gonna have to shoot this

thing he like comes at me turns right at like right the last second shoots up to the surface and goes and my buddy who was like chopping the fish up on the surface he goes and like gobbles it and swims off no way yeah and i go up to the surface yeah he was like that was a bull shark when you get out get out of the water. All right, guys.
Ephraim Epstein here today from San Diego. Cybersecurity expert.
Thanks for coming on, man. Yeah, man.
Thank you, Sean. Absolutely.
It's a pleasure. I'm excited to be on your podcast.
Yeah. I'm a big fan.
So for those that don't know you, you built a $30 million business in revenue with 116 employees. Yes, sir.
Yeah. So in IT, cybersecurity, and now we're doing a lot in AI.
So it's been a fun ride. I love being an entrepreneur and I love the business side of it.
You know, IT and cyber and AI is kind of what we do, but it's more about the mission to impact lives through technology and help people positively and have a great time. I love it, man.
When was the pivot to AI? Were you on it pretty early? The AI pivot was probably like a year ago. So I wouldn't say super early, but I think right now is still super early because it's moving fast, but the majority of businesses still don't have AI in the company actively replacing headcount or something like that.
They might be using applications to give them ideas on writing papers or creating images or video, but the way AI is going, it's kind of sad and it's

kind of scary in some sense, but it is going to replace a lot of jobs. You're already seeing it

on certain drive-thrus. When you call and make your order, you're talking to AI and not a human.

Oh, I haven't seen that yet. A fast food spot?

Yeah, some fast food spots are adopting that. So that's a job, right? That's someone's job.

But it's a lot of business owners are saying, hey, how do we bring AI into this business? We don't want to get left behind. What do we do? And so as I was, you know, diving into AI, I wanted not just a feature set, but I wanted something that is like, where is it actively adding revenue to the company

or replacing a task that a human does?

And where we've landed on is texting.

So because the voice is getting there,

it's not quite 100% there.

I think it'll be there in about a year.

But right now texting,

you can communicate via text with an AI

and the majority of people will not know they're talking to an AI. Dude, have you seen Apple's new AI update? I haven't played with it yet.
What? Yeah, I need to. Oh my God, update your phone tonight.
It's in my text now. I just got the update.
I just haven't played with it yet. Yeah.
So basically, when I open my messages now, you know how normally the text pops up? Now AI summarizes what they said

and sends you a summary of each text. It's nuts.
So like someone can send a paragraph text and AI will summarize it for you in like a sentence. There you go.
Yeah. So it's already, it's, the rate it's going is, is pretty insane.
And I've already heard some of the AI voice stuff and I wouldn't say it's like 10 out of 10.

You know it's not a human,

but it's, 10 out of 10.

You know it's not a human.

But it kind of made me sad when I heard it.

Because I realized the reason it made me sad is it was with one of our partners.

He's creating a voice.

And he was already like, it was doing solar sales in this case.

And I was listening to that.

And I was like, man, all those customer service. And I could have a full conversation, right? About solar.
All those customer service jobs when you're, I don't know, call AT&T, Verizon, big companies. Small companies might not adopt it because they want to have high customer service.
But the ones that don't care, I'm like, all those jobs are going to be toast in a few years. Wow.
Yeah. So I don't know.
It's going to be tough for people. I think in the long run, it may be good because now it forces people to have higher skill levels.
Yeah. If you have a high skill level, there's going to be a lot of opportunity for you.
It's the low skill people. So, you know, I guess if you're a young person, get good, get a skill.
Yeah. And learn a skill that can't be, I guess, duplicated easily by AI.
But even podcasts, man. Holy crap, there's some really convincing AI podcasts.
I already saw some of them pretty- Google, I think, has a podcast AI. Yeah.
Yeah, it's nuts. So even I'm thinking of ways to differentiate this podcast from just talking to people.
Yeah, I don't think it'll ever, I don't know. There's some things I think AI will never be as good as a human.
And maybe, I don't, yeah, who knows? Yeah, until it develops consciousness, it won't be able to replicate emotions, I think, as well as humans. Right.
So we got some years before that, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully.
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Exactly.

Yeah.

So that's kind of what we've been doing on the AI. It's been pretty fun.
It's been, it's been growing really rapidly and it's been, um, it's been fun. It's, you know, we always, as a company, we have to evolve.
And I realized that companies that don't evolve, you know, they're the usual left in the dust. Yeah.
I think that's a smart move, man. Cause if you're not using AI in any way, I don't know if that's going to be sustainable in the long run.
Probably not, unless it's just a blue-collar job. But even then, you know, the companies that, you know, maybe you go on the website, you ask a question, you're conversating immediately with AI versus a company that didn't have that, you're going to have an advantage.
You're going to take a bigger market share. I mean, I've left banks because the wait time is like three hours.
Exactly. You know what I mean? I'd rather talk to at least AI so I could get some answers.
Yeah, if you can get the job done for you, you're going to be happy. Yeah, absolutely.
So you built this thing to over 100 employees. During that process, you were not a fan of DEI.
You know, the way I grew up is we grew up, my parents always taught me to, to value people for who they are on the inside and merit. And so I've always, that's been really important to me.
And, but I'm not on the DEI train at all. And I feel that, uh, the whole DEI, well, now it's becoming unpopular, but it was very popular and there was a lot of pressure on companies to implement different DEI things, even on the private sector.
Remember when the whole Black Lives Matter thing happened, everyone was posting the black square. If you don't post it, what are you saying about yourself? Right.
And when I build my company, I believe in merit and, you know, results is, is, is the world rewards you on results. And so hiring the best person for the job, regardless of their skin color, I think that is a much better system than trying to hire someone just based on their skin color and trying to fit a certain quota in.
And so I have a very diverse staff. In fact, my COO, and she's also now my business partner on a venture together.
I've been friends with her since we were 15. Yeah.
Her name's Natasha, Natasha. Great friend of mine.
Dear friend of mine. And she's black.
She's a woman. And her being in the role has really nothing to do with her skin color or anything like that.
Yeah. It's just that she's just amazing at what she does and she gets results.
That's how it should be, right? That's how we roll. That's why I like business.
that's why i'm a fan of capitalism to a certain degree yeah i like conscious capitalism yeah when the consumers are also benefiting yeah i mean definitely like capitalism has probably a a dark side which we've seen but you know it is good to let the market decide and and you know, have that freedom.

Because, I mean, I feel like socialism is more broken than capitalism. They're both probably got negatives to them.
Time will tell, right? Yeah. We'll see what happens.
So when you, because last year you did 30 million in revenue, right? We did 30 million, yeah. And we had a really interesting so uh the in 23 we our company had never known anything but growth from the time we started in uh 2000 the end of 2012 was when i started it and then in 23 we did 28 million and i had a situation where i have a very large customer.
Yeah. And they were going public.
They were a nursing home operator. Made up over, at that time, over 70% of our revenue.
So a really bad place to be. But I love this customer because a lot of our growth, I have to give credit where credit is due.
It's because of their expansion. And we got to go on that ride with them.
But they said, hey, we're going public. And at this point, they're over 300 nursing homes.
Every single one we onboarded, we helped support, we went through every lifecycle with them where we've helped them, where we were everything, all their IT, all their cybersecurity, to helping them hire their first IT director, to helping them build their team. And then in the summer of 23, they said, hey, you're a great partner.
We love you, but we're going public. And we're going to take a lot of this in-house over the next year and a half, which is when the contract was expiring.
So I was stressed out. I was worried for the employees.
And because And because I was like, man, what's this going to be painful? What if I have to lay off a lot of employees? I was scared. So what I did instead is I went to them.
I said, Hey, how about this? What if we, you buy out of the contract now, you hire basically these employees purchased from us. In essence, a division of the company will give you the ip all the information will give you turnkey what you need from the it side make sure it's super successful you take these employees with you and it was great it was great for them because they saved money on the contract it was great for us because we made more on that sale than we would have in net profit from keeping the contract for a year and a half.
And I saved everybody but three jobs. We had three layoffs.
I helped two of them actually find another job after that. So it was really a net loss of one job, which probably had to go anyway.
But it was a huge success story. it reset us on four so that was all positive the only thing is now it reset us we lost nine million dollars in recurring revenue so my intention and my goal was in 23 i was like or at the in 24 i was like i want to do the same amount of revenue in 24 that we did in 23 so we had to basically make back $9 million in revenue plus and we outperformed it.
So yeah, we did 30. Incredible story.
Sometimes those setbacks are blessings in disguise, right? It was because we're a way better, stronger organization now, right? More diverse in the client base. We had to get stronger in our processes and refined in what we were doing.
Because when you have one really large customer, it's easy to get absorbed in taking care of them. And even though you're building processes, they don't really get put to the same test.
They don't get stretched as hard as when you have a diverse client base,

which is the way it should be. So it was a blessing.
I love that. So are nursing homes targets for these cyber attacks? I'd imagine because it's an elderly crowd, people are trying to… Oh, for sure.
Yeah. We were doing IT as well as cyber for them.
So IT supporters, they feel it immediately. out if you can't print or can't like run a chart or run a med cart and do, you know, medical passes or something, it's a big deal.
But cyber attacks are a big thing. And I think every business is just getting hammered by it because the reason it's such a big thing now is that these criminal groups, a lot of them run like companies.
So there's a boss, a lot of them are overseas and they have employees and they staff employees, even give them like health coverage, have an office they come into and they hire smart people and they just work as a team to exploit legitimate companies and get money out of them. And it works.
And there's very little consequences for them. You call the FBI.
If you don't have a case over a million dollars, they won't even, they just say, tough luck, call your insurance. Yeah.
So it has to be for them to even open a case. It has to be over a million dollars lost.
And then when they start the investigation investigation as soon as they start doing some forensics they see this is going overseas even if the group is in the united states they'll connect overseas and then connect back oh vpn yeah vpn and all kinds of things and then they're like oh we don't have jurisdiction there sorry case closed so that's why less than two% there's any kind of resolution. That's crazy.
Yeah. From a legal standpoint.
Yeah. Because a lot of these guys are probably international.
So. Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe the country they're in doesn't even care.
Because I know there's a lot of hackers in North Korea. Yeah.
A lot of crypto hackers over there. Yeah.
Exactly. They don't care.
And they'll. We had a business owner.
They cleaned out over $2 million out of his crypto account. They got his keys or how did they get it? I don't know exactly how they did it.
He was talking to us to see if we could help with them. He never actually ended up hiring us, but he lost it.
I don't think he ever got it. That's terrible.
Yeah, crypto, once you lose it, you're not really. Yeah, like really, what can they do? I got SIM hacked once.
That sucked. Have you seen that hack before? Yeah.
That's like the worst. Yeah.
If they get your SIM card, they got all your texts and everything. Everything.
Yeah, your email. Yeah, they can do multi-factor authentication, get in as you on logins.
There's a lot of carriers that really, I guess, tightened their security when that started happening because they were getting sued yeah for allowing that yeah i know the mgm here you're in vegas the mgm one was a really big that was a big one 10 million dollars or something oh it was more and they paid it right yeah they paid it because that the the money that they were losing of not being operational was was more than you know yeah i don't know how many millions they were losing per day probably a lot because you got the rooms plus the gambling yeah people couldn't gamble yeah it's a big deal yeah yeah so the way they did that so a lot of the hacks actually start with social engineering that's exactly what it was uh they hired a new it person on the team and obviously mgm has a huge it team so he was like administrator he updated his linkedin so i'm assuming they just saw his linkedin saw that he got a job at mgm so they called the help desk pretending to be him said you know hey this is you know john the new dot dot can you help reset my password I can't get in. So the IT help desk group reset his password.
They logged in as him. They now had access because he was an IT administrator in the environment, had access to the server infrastructure.
Immediately, the group started doing multiple people working on it, started going through the environment, started staging ransomware,

pushed it out, locked it all up.

Nuts.

And nothing ever happened to those hackers,

I believe, that I saw.

They got rich.

They got rich, but nothing trouble-wise.

No, absolutely not.

So now they're going to probably have more money

to hire more staff.

They went after Caesars the next week, I believe.

Yeah.

Caesars Palace.

Yeah. And they own a bunch of casinos in Vegas.
I don't know how that one went, but crazy. They work.
Yeah, it works. It works good.
And it's not just a lot of companies think that or business owners just think, oh, it's the big companies that MGM stuff like that. No, no.
The majority of it, MGM, everyone knows it and it's big. So it made the news.
By far, the majority of it is only smaller businesses. Yeah.
Because they're easy, low-hanging fruit. Absolutely.
Yeah. Has your view of money changed over the years as you've made more and more? Absolutely.
Yeah. So, you know, growing up, I grew up middle class.
We weren't poor, but we weren't rich at all. You know, a camping trip was vacation.
Right. We weren't like flying on a yacht or anything like that.
So, you know, we grew up with middle class financial literacy and it wasn't until much later I learned financial literacy through mentors. unless you're born into like a rich parents that teach you this or unless you go out, through mentors.
And unless you're born into like, uh, rich parents that teach you this, or unless you go out and find mentors, which most people don't do, you're really not going to learn it because you're not going to learn in school. So, you know, just how I invest, how I think about saving, uh, everything about it has, has changed from a financial literacy thing.
But also, for me, experiences, being able to do things, freedom is much more important to me than money itself. Money is just like the unit, the freedom unit to get it done.
Yeah. I bet you feel freedom when you're spearfishing.
I love that. Yeah.
I was wondering if you're going to bring that up. Yeah.
I love spearfishing. I love being on the ocean.
We did this really cool trip this last summer, uh, lived on a, uh, a catarman for five days, sailing different islands, uh, in Fiji and got to do a lot of spearfishing. It was great.
I've never done it. It seems pretty fun.
It is fun.

It's basically snorkeling,

holding your breath,

diving down.

It's like hunting underwater

trying to get a fish that way.

What's the biggest fish you've caught?

I got a fish that was close.

I didn't get an official weight.

It was close to 300 pounds.

What?

Yeah.

Holy crap.

Yeah, I'll show you a picture.

Dude, so you need to have...

Down in Mexico.

You shoot it in the head, right? That's how it... That ideally, yeah, ideally you shoot them in the head or in the spine.
Holy crap. 300 pounds.
Yeah, it was close to 300. And it was funny, two weeks later.
So that fish I shot and we, you know, prepared it. I eat all the fish.
So I had a a lot of meat and that fish was kind of tough because it was so big so old and people it didn't taste bad but it was like kind of chewy yeah you see that with lobsters too yeah so i kind of felt bad afterwards because we weren't gobbling it up like we did the other the other meat and about three weeks later I was out again uh in the same area and I saw one I swear this thing must have been five six hundred pounds a fish yeah it was it looked like a Volkswagen it was so big and I could have shot him he swam by me a couple times but I didn't shoot him because I had already just shot a big one we weren't eating the meat and I wasn't there about killing it and now yeah I let him go but it was pretty cool it was a really cool experience it was a big fish I didn't know fish got that big yeah they get big there's there's some that are over a thousand pounds in the ocean yeah marlons and tunas and stuff you see any sharks when you're out there you know I do i don't see them a lot in fact i had my first scary shark experience just this last summer before that i had seen sharks but never anything that was like that i had any kind of adrenaline rush where i was scared right and in fiji we're trying to get dog tooth tuna. So we had shot this smaller fish

and we were chopping it up

and like letting it float out.

And the idea was to try and get these

because the dog tooth will come and eat it.

So I was waiting for it.

I was diving down.

I was about, I think I was around 60 feet at that dive.

And I saw a shark.

There was sharks all over this,

down there in the South Pacific,

but they're mostly reef sharks.

And this was like, huh, that one's a little bit bigger.

And most of the time when the sharks are around, I'll just like swim aggressively towards them and they'll just take off. Really? Yeah.
So if you act aggressive, they're like, oh, I don't want nothing to do with this guy. Yeah.
So I was like, oh, that's a little bit bigger one. Maybe I should swim towards him and like intimidate him a little bit and i start swimming towards him and he like when i started doing that he was kind of going off to the side he immediately like whips a u-turn starts swimming out me no way yeah as fast as he can and i remember it was like slow motion because he had all these little like yellow fish like swimming next to him.
And I was like i might i put my gun out i was like if he gets too close or he opens his mouth i'm gonna have to shoot this thing he like comes at me turns right at like right the last second shoots up to the surface and goes and my buddy who was like chopping the fish up on the surface he goes and like gobbles it and swims off no way yeah and i go up to the surface and he was like yeah he was like that was a bull shark we need to get out of the water and i had um seen bull sharks in videos but i don't i hadn't dove the south i dove a lot of mexico a lot of the pacific i dove indonesia and stuff but i hadn't done like a lot of i hadn't had a bull shark encounter yet. Yeah.
So that was my first one. And it wasn't until like after I was on the boat, I was like, oh man, that was kind of sketchy.
Because you were just so in the moment. Yeah.
I didn't like feel scared in the moment. Yeah.
But afterwards I'm like, man, that would have been, yeah, that would have been pretty bad. Dude, that's nuts.
How big was it? Oh man. I he was very fat and he was i want to say maybe eight feet with tail damn like that yeah maybe a little longer with the tail i wonder if your your spear gun would have killed that oh yeah he would uh he would uh i would have like the sharks have thicker skin too right it? Yeah, the spear gun, it would have went through.

He would have been jacked.

He would have died.

Okay.

Which is,

I didn't want to do that either.

But I probably would have lost

a lot of that gear.

Yeah.

Bent up the shaft

and all that kind of stuff.

Damn.

Yeah.

That is scary, man.

Yeah, bull sharks are one of the most aggressive.

Yeah, but that's if I have a shot,

which I did in this case,

like he was coming straight at me.

I mean, if he had come behind me or something, then I might be out of luck. And he was solo.
He was solo. Yeah.
So, so we said, okay, let's, let's stop chumming for now. You see any dolphins or anything cool? Yeah, I see a lot of dolphins.
I've got a lot of sea turtles, manta rays. That's beautiful.
You know, it's like a different world. It's, I love the ocean.
I love being underwater. Yeah.
60 feet deep. You never know what you're going to see.
Yeah. beautiful it's you know it's like a different world it's i love the ocean i love being underwater yeah it's 60 feet deep you never know what you're gonna see yeah so it's exciting so you're holding your breath the whole time yeah just holding your breath oh that's insane just free diving i'm really not even that good i think my deepest dives are you know about 75 feet and i get kind of i know i could go deeper but i like to be conservative don't want to die.
A lot of free divers die. I mean, yeah, that's pretty deep.
Yeah. Just getting down there probably takes like 20 seconds.
Yeah. I know a lot of guys.
Oh yeah, for sure. So if you're, if you're going at the right pace, it should take you about 20 seconds to get around 60 feet.
If you're going kind of at a moderate pace, like a meter a second, something like that. You're also using energy to get down and up so you got to calculate that yeah so it's all about just being relaxed and um not feeling tense so you just want to reduce your oxygen um use these really big fins do slow kicks how long uh are you holding your breath usually a to a minute and a half.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
That's not as long as I thought. I'm picturing long.
Once again, yeah, there's guys. I know guys that do two, three minutes.
I just don't want to die. That's where it gets risky, right? Yeah, it gets risky.
So guys have shallow water blackouts. Damn.
Yeah, it's a very common way for free divers to die wow so i i think and honestly i don't think you get any more fish like most the fish i've ever shot are within the first 20 to 30 seconds yeah yeah it's usually on the drop they'll usually come check you out sometimes it's a little bit later but you know i heard dolphins are really smart really smart yeah they're really cool animals yeah i'm fascinated by them they can communicate with each other yeah in fact there's um they're doing studies on orcas right and the pods and usually when they're born into a pod that's like their tribe their people they don't leave and usually go to another pod. And they also, the language between the pod is almost like a human language.
So the other pods don't really quite understand what they're saying. But together they've realized that they can communicate together.
And some pods hunt different things. So it's really interesting.
There's like some pods in California that they've now observed they'll kill and eat great white sharks. Other orca pods do not do that.
There's a pod in New Zealand that knows how they'll blow like stingrays and flip them over and they'll eat the stingrays without getting stung. Other pods don't do that.
So they've somehow learned these things and they communicate it and they've learned it from each other.

And it's kind of their thing.

There's a pod down and I think it's in Argentina. I might be wrong, but they're the ones that beach themselves and grab the seals off the beach.
I don't know if you've seen it. It's pretty, the seal's like hightailing it for its life, thinking it's on the, you know, almost on the sand.
this thing will like slide out of the water that it's like out of the water grab it and then kind

of like like start flipping around to get itself back that's crazy only that only that pod does it or maybe one or two pods do that but not the ones in california don't do that and the ones down there don't eat sharks it's kind of interesting chiller whales man yeah but dolphins are right in that family. Super smart.
They figure stuff out. What about octopus? You see any of those? I have seen some octopus.
They're really cool. They're smart, too.
Yeah, they're smart. There's a cool documentary called My Octopus Teacher.
I heard about it. I didn't see it yet, though.
Yeah, I never felt so sad for an octopus because it goes through its whole life. And at the end, you know, of course, they only live like two years.
Oh, that's it? Yeah. Wow.
So it's a short so he goes with it till it dies at the end and so I didn't know that. I thought they lived forever.
But you're like oh my gosh this poor little octopus but then of course I go to the restaurant and I eat octopus. Terrible person.
It tastes so good. So tasty.
I love it. My fiance refuses to eat cephalopods like squid and octopus and I love I love it.
But she thinks they're too smart. I can feel that with the octopus.
But the squid, yeah, you can eat those. They're not as smart.
I don't know. You know what? The thing about the ocean is everything in the ocean dies a gruesome death.
So take the humans out of it. There's nothing that grows old and just dies peacefully.
Maybe a turtle even they get eaten by sharks true yeah so you see turtles with their fins ripped off or or sea lions will kill them so everybody's killing everybody in the ocean and they all die and if you're lucky in the ocean you grow big but then eventually you grow weak and then you get eaten to. That's a terrifying life.
It's a terrifying life. Wow.
So yeah. Imagine being a wild animal.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's wild. Yeah.
Being human is pleasant. It is.
Yeah, it is. It is.
So I love animals. I'm not all about killing animals.
In fact, most of the time when I go out there, I'm very selective. I'm only taking fish that I need.
So if I don't need a fish and I don't see one I really want, I just have a great time underwater. That's it.
That's respect, man. Yeah.
What else do you do for fun? Man, I love traveling. I love skiing.
I love backpacking, hiking, hunting, anything that's really outdoorsy.

Where have you hunted?

And so we do a lot of bird hunting with my brother.

He's got a kennel.

He trains and breeds bird dogs, French Britneys.

And they're really cool because if you ever hunted with a dog,

they'll, you know, it's like a collaboration, you know, and beast to to get something and it's it's a very cool experience and it's really addicting and so you know the dog will find birds point the bird um if necessary even help you flush the bird and then if you can shoot the bird then they'll retrieve it for you out of water you know if it's lost they'll sniff it out find it bring it back so it's a really fun experience so um do some of that i've done some big game hunting uh is as well nothing crazy just deer boar that kind of thing i've never seen a wild boar i like eating them though they're good they're good and you know what's kind of crazy about wild boar is um it tastes great tastes like pork a little less fatty but still fatty but you don't get that heavy feeling afterwards so that's a good point yeah so i was like i've even bought i started buying because i i'll order beef and pork online high quality grass-fed stuff but i do a lot of wild game i'll order wild boar as well because i don't get to hunt as much as i'd like so when i have it i eat it all but i'll order wild boar wild elk venison and you really feel great and here's what i i say about the wild animals is they had a great life it just had one bad day most of the farm animals haven't their entire life sucks most of them yeah most of them unless it's like a good farm yeah unless a good farm so i like to support the good farms i love what switzerland does with their farm animals they have like very strict laws like uh cows have to be put out to pasture really on the grassy fields yeah so they can't they can't like live in those stalls and all that kind of stuff. So.
I hate seeing those videos. I hate that.
They come up on my Instagram. Yeah.
I hate it. It drives me crazy.
Yeah. It makes me upset actually.
Yeah. Because some animals are super smart.
Super smart. Yeah.
And it's just, I mean, animals still has, they feel pain, they feel fear, they feel all those things. And so.
Yeah. Gotta treat it with respect, you know.
Gotta think of like the way that native americans treated you know the animals that they hunted with respect have you tried that deer from hawaii yet yes i need to try that delicious i'm gonna order some this week i've been seeing it yeah yeah i got to go actually last year on molokai uh with a friend of a friend, some local guys. So I got to stay at their house, got to hunt in Molokai.
And that was a great experience. Yeah.
That is cool, man. I've never been hunting.
It's fun, man. It's, you know, it's more hiking with a firearm than it really is hunting.
But if you do get the right opportunity to take an animal then you can um you get to to eat it and as long as you're respecting it and it's i think it's great yeah i'm big on nature so i think i'd like it just being out there yeah you know that's the one downside i guess of the city life being in vegas yeah it's good to you know it's good well the nice thing can, you can get, I'm sure you can travel anywhere you want from Vegas. Flight goes every part of the world.
Yeah. We're close to Cali.
Yeah. We got direct flights pretty much anywhere in the U S I feel like.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, so it's, uh, it's, it's great, great. You know, it's a great thing to, it's very sustainable too, you know? So I encourage people that if they think, think they they would like to do it that they should give it a try at least once you also then i think you respect the food that you i mean i know this sounds silly but like it bothers me to buy meat and have it go bad and throw it out because i'm like that animal died for nothing so even the way i think about grocery meat, I have a respect, even though I never like that animal died for nothing.
So even the way I think about grocery meat, I have, even though I never saw that animal, I didn't kill that animal because I'm consuming it. I didn't want it to, I don't want it to die for nothing.
Yeah. You know.
Oh yeah. I'm not big on leftovers.
Yeah. My mom taught me that growing up.
Yeah. Same.
Yeah. Same.
You got to eat everything. You got to eat everything everything so i have dogs and they eat a lot of scraps if there is any left i feed my dogs raw meat it's great i do too what kind of dogs you have uh australian shepherd super active and then a golden mountain dog have you heard of that breed no what is that it's half golden retriever half bernese mountain dog that seems like a cool dog Shout out to Otis.
There you go. Yeah, but no, I switched them to raw because they used to get like itchy and like sick a lot off the kibble.
Yeah, and you know, if you look at most of the, not most, but I don't know what the percentage is. A lot of these animals are dying from cancer.
A lot of them. And it's from like most of my dogs growing up all died from, you know, they get lumps and these weird stuff.
If you go on the raw meat, you know, they're going to live way longer. You're going to have less vet bills and just better.
Yeah, I think the average lifespan is one third of what it used to be for dogs compared to when our grandparents were having dogs. Yeah.
They used to live 15, 20 years easy. That's true.
Yeah, now they live seven on average. Yeah, so if you you i'm sure if you just feed them the raw stuff you're gonna get that extra life my one my my one girl she's uh 15 german short hair pointer and she's uh and she's she's still going strong kind of half blind half deaf got arthritis but she walks through the yard she's always um she wants to explore constantly i have to kind of temper her because her arthritis but she's on the raw food and i think a big reason she's alive is because of that i love it man yeah i hate going to the vet dude because they give like 10 vaccines a year to them it's crazy yeah i mean if you can i don't do the yearly vaccines they get the every dog i've ever had just gets like the Parvo, kind of the puppy vaccines.
And then after that, I just. Yeah.
After that, they keep pushing them. It's like, when does this end? Same thing with the humans, right? Well, yeah.
And you have all these crazy issues in humans. They're on the fifth COVID vaccine now.
It's wild. I think the vaccine, I think just everything that happening in the environment with with with vaccines is one little piece of it but you know you have like the plastics and just the air quality and water quality just everything and they try to say with the vaccines well there's no correlation to autism or whatever well i don't think that the vaccine is maybe directly causing the autism but there's definitely a correlation it's the same thing like you could say gluten doesn't cause allergic reaction doesn't cause whatever issues but then you have people that are gluten intolerant and i think all of that stuff is just we're getting bombarded by unhealthy things constantly and some people's bodies just cannot react 100 right like you have a bunch of little kids you inject them with a bunch of vaccines at the same time there's bound to be issues yeah and it's like you say oh well was it the vaccine or was it the kid's body that couldn't handle the vaccine and maybe some

tolerate that tolerate it better than others but it's it's bad i mean you saw it during the pandemic

some people could not tolerate it i knew a couple people that died yeah i don't know if it was

directly from it but it was right after they got it and it was weird like they were super young

so one of the guys that uh worked with us at the time um healthy guy uh late 30s he has a

Thank you. weird like they were super young so one of the guys that uh worked with us at the time um healthy guy uh late 30s he has a heart issue yeah from the vaccine 100 i forgot what it's called starts with an m i think but it's like where your your heart uh loses elasticity or whatever wow and um that's terrible yeah he got all three or all four shots i don, but it like, they 100% ruled it down to the vaccine.
I'm like, probably for sure. I don't think that guy would have died.
He was. Oh, he died? No, no.
He would not have died from COVID. Oh, right.
If he got COVID. Yeah, no, it was just now they're coming out.
It's just like a cold, right? Yeah, basically. Yeah, the people that were dying had overall, I'm sure there was exceptions, but overall they were, most of them were, most people were overweight, unfortunately.
And most people had other health issues or they were old. But I mean, when you're 80 or 90, you die from the flu or the cold all the time.
You die from a fall too? Yeah, you break your hip. You're super weak.
Yeah, you're not moving. I got it four or five times, the COVID.
Really? Yeah, the first time I actually thought I was gonna die, that was the worst, it turned into pneumonia. But the rest of the times, I didn't even know I had it.
It was like- Yeah, I got it for sure once, maybe twice. I didn't do the vaccine.
And the one time it was like, I had one super bad day, like where I was just laying there. I couldn't even like look at my phone or anything.
And then the next day I was really like 50% better. Yeah.
So fortunately for me, didn't last that long. My brother got it.
He was like in that state for a few days. And then we did the monoclonal antibodies.
Yeah. Which.
The one they told you not to take? Yeah. Well, no, that one actually was FDA approved.
Oh, it was. What they were doing is they were like saying, oh, only, at least in California, only if you're over like 70.
And they were like, we don't have enough of it. So they're trying to regulate people getting it.
Got it. But I kind of heard about it from like the Joe Rogan podcast and stuff like that.
So, but here's the thing. You could get it if you private paid it.
So all the people with insurance or without health insurance, you couldn't get your hands on it. Got it.
Impossible. You private paid it, 2,000 bucks, you could get it.
Damn, it was that much? Yeah, it was two grand. So I paid for it for my brother.
My wife, she needed it one time too. When she got it, she was out pretty bad.
And I mean, within hours, you were like already feeling better. And I was like, why are they not pushing this? They just wanted everybody on this vaccine cycle so bad that even though this was a good proven treatment, this wasn't even like the ivermectin or stuff.
This was like, yeah, it works, but we got to limit it. There's not enough.
Right. So it was that kind of thing.
Yeah. But it kind of shows once again, you know, it's unfair, but if you, if you had the money to pay for it, you could do it.
And so, you know, going back to our conversation with money, it's not like, it's not that I love money. But being able to do something like that for a family member is important to me.
It was important. So that's a big reason I like to, you know, make my business successful.
I'm with you on that. Provides a lot of comfort, especially mentally.
Right. Yeah.
Like, because I've been broke twice. I've made and lost my money twice already.
And I grew up kind of middle class like you. How did you make your money back? Well, this second time around, it's in the podcast.
So I was broke. I lost everything during that crypto bear market.
I was over leveraged. So that was three years ago.
Wow. Yeah, I was way over leveraged.
Yeah. Made a ton in crypto, lost it all because I never sold.
And then the first time I got way too excited about sports cards. There was a boom in sports cards.
So what did you learn that now you're going to apply? Both of them were just over leveraged and relying too much on emotions. Yeah.
You know what I mean? I turned my passion into like a very emotional thing.

Yeah.

So are you going to like take that lesson now if you go into real estate or crypto again or something?

Yeah.

I'm very more, very careful with investments now.

Yeah.

Because I realized,

because I'm in a seven-year relationship,

I'd get married this year.

Congrats, man.

Yeah.

When I mess up though,

it's not just on me anymore.

Like it affects the whole family. I got two dogs.
We got a house now. So I need to like be more responsible basically.
That's awesome. I try to look at every, cause I've had a lot of losses in business too.
Like I did a CrossFit gym and I was doing this while I had the IT business and it was super fun, but I lost probably in the, probably a quarter of a million dollars trying to do it on the side. And then I just ended up giving it away.
I just sold the equipment. And I look back and I'm like, okay, but what did I learn? And there was some lessons I learned.
And so I basically bought myself a quarter, a million dollar of lessons that I do feel

have made me successful in other areas. And, you know, I think the mistake a lot of people do is when they have a failure, they don't, they don't think, they don't like analyze it, take responsibility and say, what can I learn? right so when i go again instead of like letting the failure define them or stop them or make them

have and say, what can I learn? Right. So when I go again, instead of like letting the failure define them or stop them or make them have fear from going forward again, they take that and they say, what can I learn? How can I try again? You know, Newton.
Oh, sorry. Isaac Newton.
Who created the light bulb? Not had like over a thousand times he failed on the light bulb but he just kept doing it but every time he would like say okay what did I learn do it again do it again do it again so you know I think that's what you have to do if you want to be successful and you never never really fail if you don't stop trying. If you stop trying, that's when you truly fail.
Otherwise, it's just a learning experience to the road to success. Yeah.
I actually had a guest on yesterday, or no, wait, Friday. And he was talking to like a billionaire and he said a billionaire asked him have you ever

failed in business before yeah and he was like yeah and the guy was like good i don't work with people that haven't failed in business before because they've never cycled they never cycled yeah and that's why you see guys that are billionaires and they lose it all and they're billionaire again i think trump did trump did it what six times yeah and you think how is that even possible but it's a

skill set and they learned from from it and they reapply it so yeah because if you've never had that financial failure you're gonna kind of have an ego about it and a false confidence you're gonna have a false confidence and right and then was your success how much of your success was duplicable

could you do it again?

Right.

Because a lot of success

is timing and luck too. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, right place, right time.
You see it in the AI industry. Yeah, exactly.
Well, there's people that were planning to start AI companies five, 10 years ago, and they're calling that lucky. But was it luck or were they planning it? Yeah.
Maybe both. I don't know.
Yeah. I think the way I like to think about luck is it's a combination of it's when preparation meets opportunity.
And so if you're preparing and putting yourself in the way of opportunities, you're going to get lucky a lot. I agree.
Yeah. I think you can control your luck.
I used to, when I was younger, I used to be like, oh, why do bad things happen to me? Yeah. You know? Does your mindset changed on that now? Oh, yeah.
Now when bad things happen to me, I'm like, okay, great. Let me learn from this.
I'm not going to have a victim mindset about it. Yeah.
You know, everyone's dealing with shit. Yeah.
People that are very successful tend to not have victim mindsets at all. And they tend to take responsibility for everything.
So they'll, they get in a car crash and they're like, it was my fault. I should have left earlier.
I should have, I should have done this. I should have done that.
And you're like, well, that wasn't your fault. The guy did this.
Right. But they don't ever want to be the victim.
And they always try to say, okay, what could I have done to prevent this from happening? My house burnt down. But instead of being the victim, well, next time I'm going to add sprinklers to the roof or whatever.
So it's not to say that bad things can't happen that are out of your control, but just the mindset's completely different. I've tried to really take that and try to take accountability and responsibility so everything that happens to me is my fault and everything that happens good or bad is either is because of me i love that yeah that's something i've seen in the top entrepreneurs when you study like guys like elon they do that.
Yeah. They all do that.
Yeah.

And I can't take credit for that.

I've learned it from mentors.

And I look at what other people are doing that are successful.

I'm like, how can I make my success easy?

And the easy way is to duplicate what someone is already doing versus trying to learn the hard way. So I've gotten a point in my life that I want to do the hard way as least as possible.

Not to say that life is not hard.

But if I can just copy what someone is already doing successfully, I can just follow in their footsteps.

And I still have to do the hard work.

I have to put the action in.

I have to put the effort in.

But I don't have to make the same mistakes.

And I can, you know, make it easy on myself as easy as possible agreed was Robert Urjavec from Shark Tank someone you copied early on uh you know what I like Robert Urjavec a lot and I I would love to meet him he's coming on really yeah wow I'll text you that day maybe you could yeah Maybe I'll come and sit in the lobby and just eat snacks and hopefully like run into him. I hadn't studied him enough and I don't know enough about how he scaled his business to be able to copy him, but he's definitely someone I would like to.
And he's in the exact same industry. That's kind of where he came up from.
Obviously, I know some things about him. But I look at Grant a lot.
Grant Cardone. Yeah, I love Grant.
He was just here. Brandon's been on too.
Oh, Brandon's been on. He's sharp.
Yep. So those are a couple guys I look up to a lot.
There's some others that I even like. Sam Waltman from Walmart.
I read his his book and I took a lot of lessons. I remember I was, um, uh, someone said, you know, a lot of people pay a few hundred dollars for some Nikes, but they won't even, uh, pay $10 to buy Sam Waltman's book.
Walmart, right. One of the richest people of all, or at least for that time period.
And I remember when he said, I was like, man, true why don't i why don't i do that and so i bought his book and i read it and i apply a lot of stuff that son waltman did and books are the best roi of all time and also there's free books now there's an app called like uh there's a library app forget the name but i'll find it and link it in the video but yeah you, you get free books. Audible is a free book a month if you're on Prime, if you listen to audiobooks.
Yes. There's a lot of good free books on YouTube.
But yeah, even if you're buying them, it's like 10 to 20 bucks. You're getting that information directly from their brain and getting to download it into your brain and people are not doing it.
And so it's amazing. A lot of people are like, hey, how do I invest? And I know a lot of people are, you know more about this, but a lot of people invest in crypto, especially if they don't have money to put to assets like real estate when you're getting started.
But I think one of the best things you can do to invest in yourself is your education. And books is one of the cheapest things you go to events networking things find mentors but with books you can get that information and what i like to do is take a pen or a little marker because most books i learned this from a um i think it was a tai lopez a podcast i'm not like a huge fan but i do like some of the things he says.
And one of the things he said is like, most big books have a lot of fluff in them. And there's just, you know, gold nuggets, right? A lot of sand and gold nuggets, but they can't put like their three or four ideas on five pieces of paper and sell it to you.
They got to put stories in there and all that stuff. But I'll go with the pen and I'll try and underline, like, hey, what are the gold nuggets that I actually have to take and apply and try and identify that within the book.
And it helps me identify the lesson, apply the lesson, and it gets my brain working on, like, how do I use this in my business or leading people. And a lot of the skills I have now, I came up with learning a technical skill set because I was an IT guy.
And then when I started a business, I had to learn things like sales, financial literacy, and leadership. And those were not natural to me.
i had to learn those and i learned those through books and other people so yeah that makes sense you can you can learn you can learn anything yeah shout out to books shout out to podcasts you know there's so many good ways to learn i love listening to podcasts yeah you get so much information and you're like oh that that's interesting i could do that and you you get that information for free almost like you met that person you're training you I'm learning every single day man like when I have on a guest I'm either reading their book listening to their podcast or both yeah when I'm preparing for episodes well I'm sure it's a big part of your success I think you're you're you're up and I don't want to even say up and coming now now you have a name for yourself and it's only growing, right? Your star is rising. But how many people are there with podcasts and what are you doing differently? Obviously, you're having good guests, but that's not it.
That's not enough. I can see all the work that goes into making this happen.
No, that's not enough, dude. Because a lot of people have Grant Cardone on their show.
He actually texted me yesterday, like, dude, the way you edit and like ask questions and converse is like game changer yeah and coming from grant that's a huge compliment he's been on some of the biggest shows so were you observing other people and kind of like because you wanted to create you came from crypto into podcasting yeah which is a huge change yeah because the crypto space is a bunch of internet nerds super introverted which is what i was right so to come into podcasts i was not was not naturally good at this. So like you said, I learned everything.
Yeah, I learned everything from watching other shows, studying other guests, stuff like that. I like that you said you were introverted, but now you're doing this.
I mean, I'm still introverted, but... Yeah, but I think people will put themselves in boxes when they say I'm extroverted or introverted.
Like maybe you're not comfortable doing something, but it doesn't mean you can't. Right.
Yeah. I agree.
Don't use it as an excuse. Don't use it as just recognize what I guess you lean towards.
But at the same time you could talk. Yeah.
Yeah. You had to put work in to make it happen.
Yeah. And now you're, now you're here.
Yeah. I mean, for me, it's like, okay, is my energy drained or not after I talk to someone? Okay.
That's kind of what I mean by introvertedness. How do you feel at the end of the day after all these? Depends on who's on.
Okay. So like right now, I feel great.
You were great. And the guest before you was great.
But sometimes there's a guest where I feel drained afterwards. So do you think it's like somehow their mindset or their energy? Something, yeah.
I'm still figure it out something with their energy maybe their substance sometimes they talk too much i'm still trying to figure it out but i don't know i guess that that shows you get so much exposure to so many people it shows why it's important to to pick who you're around with your friends in your free time 100 because that you're gonna be like them going to be like them. I mean, it's so true.
It's so cliche. The five people that like it's, it's facts.
I mean, you look at our friends when we were younger and that's who we were at the time. A hundred percent.
And now you look at who's around us now and there's a reason we're at where we're at. Yeah.
So you have to, I mean, it's the same thing. Like you're getting married, right? Your friend said when you're married, if you want to stay married, you got to pick people that have that mindset of you can't be hanging out with guys that are wanting to go do wild stuff and live this single life because you're going to just fall into that trap.
And if you hang out with people that like value the sanctity of marriage and, you know, do things as a family, well, you're going to, you're going to replicate that. Yeah.
Most of my friends are in relationships right now or looking for one and they're committed, but I used to hang out with a lot of players when I was younger in college and that's kind of what I gravitated towards. Yeah, of course.
And so you have to make um i think there's a big uh um red pill movement right now for guys yeah you know um and it's it's in response to all the the feminism the feminism and all of that but you know there's a reason that traditional values worked for centuries. And it's because they work.
I mean, there's so many studies on how children end up in a single parent household versus a dual parent household. Yeah.
And it's not good for the kid. It's not good.
It's really bad. So I feel bad for that.
It doesn't mean that if you were born in single parent household, you can't be successful. But the propensity, the environment, everything is stacked against you now.
So like, why do you want to handicap a kid if you can't? And it drives me crazy that when I see people that are parents and they'll divorce,'ll divorce, they'll get, they have kids and then they'll get a divorce because there wasn't even anything big, but they're not happy. They've grown apart.
I'm like, you have a kid. It's not about you or your happiness anymore.
It's about your kid. Like you're so selfish.
You care about your happiness more than the success of your own child. Yeah.
Sad. Yeah.
I think it's situational, but yeah, overall that's, I've seen that too. Yeah.
I'm not talking about extreme abuse or things like that, but you'll see, you'll see people that sometimes will walk away because they're bored from a relationship with a kid. What are you doing? I mean, it it's a it's a coin toss they say right yeah

with marriage 50 divorce rate yeah well i think people um are more selfish now they're more worried about their own happiness and and the point of getting married you have to think about the other person's happiness and you have to think about the success of the family the success if there's children, the success of the children.

So your happiness really should kind of come in last. Damn, that's a hot take for a lot of people, I bet.
But think about your grandma, your great grandma. Wasn't that probably her mindset? I mean, our great, our grandparents had like 10 kids.
That was normal back then, right? So was your grandma or grandpa worried about his happiness or what was he worried about probably the kids i mean baby boomer generation really spawned a lot of yeah families and that was what the most important was that like didn't mean he didn't want to be happy or your grandma didn't want to be happy but i kind of came in the last place yeah yeah my grandparents yeah they put a lot of value on their family, I feel like. You're seeing that less and less these days for sure.
I wonder if social media played a role in that. Yeah, big time.
There's a lot of studies on mental health and social media, the correlation now. Man, I think we're all addicted to it.
We have to use it for business. I can't even watch a movie now without looking at my phone.
I can't either. It's so bad.
I can't. Watching a movie, if I don't get caught within the first few, you know, 15 minutes, I turn the show or the movie off because my brain is like, yeah, like the fast.
It's bad though. When I was a kid, I used to love going to the movies.
I was like, well, it would make my whole week. It would.
And now it's like, I don't even want to go anymore. It's sad.
You know, it's sad know it's sad yeah there's a lot of negative consequences and i think it's it's had a really bad effect on on men and women you know you see it so many men are like um without relationships yeah you know they can't even get a woman um the women are over getting this like influx of of uh attention and now they think you know i only want this type of man because i see that type of lifestyle and they don't even give an average man a chance yeah um but both are ending up unhappy yeah there's this calculator that uh you type the've seen it. Yeah.
The salary and the height. The illusion calculator.
It's so wild. I was messing around with it.
And I think if you want to top, like if you want to meet a man that makes 100K and is over six feet, it's like 1% or something. Yeah.
Super low. Yeah.
And so, you know, before social media, you know, if you were a woman or a guy, you kind of worked in, you know, were in certain friend groups and they kind of met with other friend groups. But, you know, maybe if you're a real outgoing person, you went to a lot of parties and stuff.
You knew a lot of you met more people, but you kind of would meet within that group and people would kind of like find each other. Right.
Right in now it seems for the women they're getting so much attention from all over the world yeah when you have these guys say oh i'll fly you out or do whatever it's crazy right it's not but but that kind of messes that messes the mind up a little bit on on on both sides what yeah on sides. So some guys can't even get a girl.
And then the girls get so much attention. They're like, okay, I'm not going to settle for anything.
But now they're passing up a really good opportunity with maybe a really great guy. And they might not realize it until they're in their late 30s or 40s and now the options suddenly have evaporated or less because they have kids at that age right and now they're like okay now i'm ready to settle down now i'll give a guy a shot but they're you know a lot of guys are taken, right? They're taken.
Or if they're trying to go, like you said, that six foot six figure, who is he going after? And he's going to be probably going for, if you're a 40 year old woman and you're trying to go for someone in your age range, if you're not giving an average guy a shot, if you're giving, just say, no, he's got to make this much money and he's got to look like this and he's got to be charming he's all this well the other women want him too so now you're not competing with other four-year-olds you're competing with 21 year olds yeah yeah it's rough now and if you have trauma from relationships and all of that which everyone does yeah everyone does men, they want peace. So it's not even about necessarily only looks.
It's also like, oh, I'm going to marry someone that's not going to have a lot of trauma and give me, drag that into my life. Yeah.
Cause we come home after work. We don't want more issues, right? Yeah.
That's for me, that's so important. So important.
You want to have peace. You want to have a good, you just want a peaceful, happy relationship.

So I am a proponent for people

getting married younger.

How young are we talking?

I don't know.

What worked for our generations

in the past?

Yeah, I wonder what the average age

was in the past marriage.

I feel like it was young 20s.

Probably, yeah.

Now it's got to be 30s.

It's got to be 30s. It's got to be 30s.

Some people are pushing it to late 30s,

and then they're trying to start families.

That's rough, yeah.

Dude, now people at the bars and clubs

are just on their phone.

You don't socialize anymore.

You know, I don't know.

Did you grow up going to house parties and stuff?

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't know if you've noticed that,

but there's not.

Okay.

Maybe I'm a little old that I'm not getting invited, but I do have a lot of friends at younger ages and they just don't go to a lot of parties. Really? Yeah.
Rarely. I'm not saying never, but I feel like there was a party like every weekend somewhere with a group of people and now they're just kind of at home.
And I think's social media because when i grew up we didn't have social media you were bored all the time like people don't realize how i even saw a funny little like reel on instagram and people like oh i want to be back in the 90s and then they're like at home bored all the time so you're bored all the time so all you're thinking about is i want to meet people i want to go with my friends right so what did you have to do you had to go hang out whether that's skateboarding a party uh you know whatever you like to do you're always you know trying to get your i noticed a lot of young people are not even getting their driver like driver's licenses really i was trying to get my driver's license the day i could because i I wanted freedom. I wanted to go hang out with my friends.
That was a big deal as a teenager. Yeah, a big deal.
And I've met so many people that don't even get their driver's license until they're like late teens, early 20s. And I'm like, That's late.
I'm like, what the heck? Well, now Uber's out too before we didn't have that. Yeah, you could.
You could Uber. that's for sure but at the same time it's like they didn't have we had such a drive to get out and be free right and now you know people are not even they're never bored they're they're sitting you go to the bathroom and you have your phone right you're never bored you're always entertained at all times with your phone and you're seeing a lot of kids stay at home now until their late 20s.
Yeah. I feel like when we were, I want to get out.
I know my mom watches this, but I wanted to get out ASAP of my house. Dude, I can't even, I swear to you, I cannot remember the last time I heard about like a couple like 18 year old guys turning 18 or girls and moving in together and getting an apartment.
Everyone lives at home. I know part of it is the inflation and the cost of living, but people stay at home.
It's tough. No, I want to get out immediately just to like be on my own.
Yeah. You know, I don't want to live at home until I'm 30.
I know a lot of girls and guys and they're not that are in their mid to late 20s and they live at home. Damn.
Well, that's inflation, I think, too. I think so.
College debt. I think it's just like you can't even, yeah, college debt, can't even afford it.
Yeah, interest rates are crazy right now, too. I feel bad for people.
Yeah, it's rough. I think it's, you have to have a drive to be successful because the middle class is going away and you're either going to be broke or you're going to be rich.
Yeah, it's going to be gone in our lifetime, I think.

Oh, yeah. 100%.
Well, it's been awesome. Where can people find you

and keep up with you, Matt?

You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on

Instagram. Kingspear is my handle.

Email, cell phones.

I love helping people with IT, cyber,

any kind of AI business challenge.

Perfect. Hit them up, guys, if you have any questions about that.
Thanks for coming on,

man. Thank you.
Appreciate it.