Alex Duvall:Poker's YouTube War: Why Creators Are Losing Big | DSH #1440

Like what do you consider the highest like stress level careers right ever?

Maybe poker player could be one of them.

You know, they say like air traffic controller.

They say that's like one of them.

But you know, where do you put poker player at, like, as a career or a professional gambler?

Like

betting and losing thousands, tens of thousands of every day, like could be pretty harsh on someone's mental.

All right, guys, we got Alex here, professional poker player and content creator.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Yeah, my pleasure.

Yeah, I know you've been dealing with some censorship issues lately, huh?

Yes, on YouTube, I think, like, YouTube is waging a war right now against poker, specifically.

I think they've gotten some new rules, and like poker has been having a lot of problems with, like, people getting their videos taken down for unknown reasons.

So they don't even give you a reason.

Well, it's like regulated goods.

It makes no sense, like, as if you're selling something illegal.

But a lot of the videos, no one's selling anything.

Even like Brad Owen, who's huge, he's had a problem with like his vlogs getting taken down stuff like that damn yeah so do you get a strike or do they just take it down well it starts off by just getting taken down and then if you get more and more getting taken down then eventually you will get a strike yeah and youtube's a frustrating platform because you don't really have somebody you could talk to one-on-one well exactly you don't have someone especially if you're a smaller creator um and even the creators that brad's size he didn't have anyone when he was first tweeting about this even like damon a grano was like tweeting something about you know having videos taken down so he might have someone by now because, you know, he's obviously super big, but yeah, you don't have anyone.

That's scary because you make a living partially off your content, right?

Yeah, for sure.

And even if you're not making money from YouTube, you know, AdSense and sponsors stuff like that, if it's, you know, representing your brand and that kind of thing, then it's a big problem if you can't even post.

I know another guy like, you know, Ryan DiPaulo?

No.

He's a big poker guy and he just had his second strike on YouTube.

So it's like he can't post for two weeks and people are like, hey, like, I thought you were going to post that video.

And he's like, I can't post.

Yeah.

Cause the news cycle is so quick in poker.

Yeah, yeah.

Especially, yeah.

Especially right now with all the drama going on.

I feel like every day there's a new update on that cheating story from that event.

Yeah.

Million dollar WPT event.

Yeah, yeah.

So there was a million dollar

Millionaire Maker was a tournament at WSOP.

And basically.

Player was ship dumping to another player, but the reason was because of an outside poker company called WPT, where they were actually offering a $1 million

bonus to one of the players.

So let's imagine two people playing heads up.

One of the players could only get the bonus.

So imagine first place is $1.2 million.

Second place is a million.

And

what are you going to do if this guy can make an extra million?

Well, someone you want to, you want to try to get that million, right?

So they set it up to where even though the guy had a chip lead that was like nine to one deficit, he had like that many many more chips, huge chip lead.

The guy, the shorter stack, he ended up, you know, winning and taking it down because he just played.

They made it out to playing hands to where he could win.

Silly, silly hands where like, you know, he would raise with like eight, four off and get three bet by eight, three off and the eight, four would fold and just like set up hands like this.

And the commentators are like, oh, I don't know what's happening here.

Like, we don't know what's going on.

But what's going on is clear chip dumping and this this kind of thing where you know they want to get the million dollar bonus yeah so so yeah are you against chip dumping like i mean in general yes it's a good thing to be against it's like a form of cheating in poker um but in this format where we didn't think the third player or anyone else at the table was being affected um

no because like you get an additional million dollars.

I mean, it's between two players.

This was a general consensus of the poker community was if it's between just them, you know, it's, it's all good.

I mean, it's worth it, right?

Like, what would you do?

You know, yeah, you got to put yourself in their shoes and be honest.

Yeah.

99% of people would do the same thing.

Yeah.

And the only reason they're doing it is because the WSOP has had a long-time rule of no chopping.

So if there's a million for first, 1.2 million for, you know, whatever, if this is how it's set up, you can't chop.

They want a winner.

Like, they want a winner to get the bracelet.

Do you think they should bring chopping into the mix?

I think they probably should.

I mean, I understand the aspect of not, you know, awarding the bracelet if it's being chopped.

But the thing is, you can set it up to where two players can chop and then you can play for the bracelet or a small increment of money.

So you can play for, you know, 10K on the side plus the bracelet.

So someone's still going to win the bracelet.

And most of the time, you don't even know the details of chopping of what's happening.

And also, it's funny, there are cases where chopping has probably happened at the WSOP in the past, but no one really knows about it because they went about it in a different way, you know, just behind the scenes.

Yeah.

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Yeah, so Martin Cabrell just got his fourth bracelet.

Yeah, shout out to him.

Yeah, shout out, Martin.

He's been making headlines.

Yeah, people are on Twitter like the sim is broken.

Like, what's happening?

You know, this has a, we're in a sim.

But

yeah, I think he's been hilarious.

I think the coverage on him this year has been huge as compared to previous years.

I mean, he's always gotten attention, but this year, I think he's definitely come off more likable.

People in the past, maybe, like, really didn't like him.

And even now, people, you know, find annoyance with him sometimes, obviously.

But a lot of the things he's saying, people love it.

So I'm a fan.

I think he's obviously playing into it.

I don't think he's actually like that.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's definitely a personality.

He creates this.

Now, you know, in poker, there's a thing called GTO.

He's got this thing called G-R-O, and no one really even knows what that means.

I personally think just because, like, on a keyboard, if you're texting, like the T is right next to the R.

And it's like, maybe he just like mistyped one day and he's like, oh, this is my thing now, G-R-O.

But yeah, I don't know.

We'll see what he says to that.

Do you spend more time making content or actually playing poker right now?

Right now, playing poker for sure.

And especially now that my channel just got a second strike.

So we'll see if that gets reversed.

But

yeah, I totally think about this all the time because when you're a poker player and also doing content, it's like, what do you do more?

Do you care more about poker?

Do you care more about YouTube?

And it's kind of hard to, very hard to find a balance.

Right.

I just had Rampage on actually, and he was describing this conundrum because it's two full-time jobs, two full-time hats, and he doesn't have time to do like poker lessons and get better at the game because he's spending so much time on content.

Right, right.

Yeah.

I mean,

like I said, it depends on what you care more about.

I personally do care more about poker.

So maybe I put more effort into, you know, trying to become a better player.

But I also definitely love YouTube and posting that kind of thing.

So yeah.

How long did it take you to become profitable as a poker player?

I would say like, so I was definitely unprofitable when I was playing in college.

I went to Virginia Tech and I would play like 10 cent, 20 cent or 20, I think 10 cent, 25 cent.

So like buying for $60 was really like a big buy-in.

And

I mean, all throughout my time in college, I probably lost like 2K total.

But that's not a lot.

But like when you're in college, you know, you're losing that kind kind of thing um

so I was a losing poker player in college and then when I got out of college I think I became profitable I I won a WSOP circuit event like very soon after I got out of college actually paid for my college debt wow yeah so it was like I had like over 20k in college debt and I won this tournament for like 43k damn and um so yeah I was out by luck or you trained a lot for that tournament I mean I definitely got better over time like I was actually playing uh tournaments um after college at like a underground, I guess, underground, it's like not a casino, but like based out of Charlotte, North Carolina is where I was living at the time.

And I played tournaments and I would always win these like small buy-in tournaments for like a couple thousand grand or a grand here, a grand here, you know, that kind of thing.

And so,

yeah, I mean, I don't know where I was going, but uh

I always at that time, I think that's when I became profitable.

And then like once I learned more about it and became more of a cash game player, that's where I really became profitable so you like the cash games more than the tournaments um right now yeah but tournaments are definitely like more fun to like go into deep and win but if you just keep losing and losing losing it's like why am i doing this it's like pointless it starts to feel pointless you have to in cash you can sit there you could lose a big tournament you could lose a big pot but then you can turn around and and and win a even bigger one you know so it's like way easier to recover but tournament if you don't go deep it's really not as fun it seems like most pros i talked to lean more towards cash games, right?

Yeah, probably.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Other than Phil Helmuth.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also, like with tournaments, you kind of have to be backed at a certain certain level because if you don't, then you're just losing a lot in the beginning until you hit a big score, you know?

Unless you're like someone who hits a big score in the very beginning and then you have like that bankroll to supply your tournament buy-ins.

then a lot of the times you have to get backed.

And so cash game, you don't really have to do that.

You can just kind of buy in and keep winning and you'll be good.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Now, there's a hundred events at the World Series this year.

Do you think winning a bracelet has lost its

I don't know what the word is, but like

yeah, yeah, it definitely has.

And it's not just that there's a hundred events, it's that there's like even more than that online, like like two or three hundred online.

And then you can go now, like in a separate series in winter and win bracelets.

So I definitely agree that they have lost their prestige and that kind of thing.

I think like the live bracelet is still more important than the online bracelet.

Even though online play is harder, it's still like kind of a more important thing, I think, live than online.

Yeah, online, you can't get as much of an edge, right?

You can't have the reads and the tells.

Yeah, true.

And you're not like put under the lights, the final table, you know, this kind of thing.

I think that's why.

The pressure, right?

You're naked in your bedroom.

You could be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think in person, I like watching in person more.

I can't get like like I'll watch online highlights or whatever and I'm not really into it.

Yeah.

You know, yeah, you have to be like kind of like a GTO nerd and like someone who really cares about the way they're like playing against each other to like really like what's going on online to like see like oh, why did he make it that size or what did he do?

You know

Are you would you consider yourself a GTO nerd?

Um somewhat like I mean if I see like a sick play like you know a sizing player or someone did something very unordinary then I definitely like want to watch and and see why and that kind of thing.

Okay.

Because I had Bryn Bryn Kenny on and he said he just destroys the GTO nerds.

Oh, yeah.

So I think there's like a way to play against them, I guess.

Yeah, yeah.

And he just mastered it.

Yeah, well, maybe, I mean, like, like, maybe that just comes down to experience and getting player reads and that kind of thing.

But there's definitely a balance.

If you can do both, then it's pretty hard to beat you.

And I've seen people even playing online who are good at GTO.

And they know like what to do in certain spots, but then they know just because of the way you made the sizing bet and this kind of thing, these different little reads that you can also you know exploit that

so yeah i like what you said i think you need both you need the technical and the intellectual for sure right yeah which one are you better at i mean i think i'm better at exploitive um and kind of like just identifying you know what why someone's betting this size in this certain spot and that kind of thing um i could definitely become better at gto and and that kind of thing i could definitely study more that makes sense um so isaac haxton as we're doing this episode he's at the another final table he's known for wearing a mask do you care if if people are wearing masks at your table i don't really care um yeah i mean i know some people do some people don't no yeah i mean i understand why people care and i think you know like others in the past like past like phil homuth have like called him out and said like he doesn't need to be wearing a mask like this it's done to hide poker tails and this kind of thing all at the same breath like Helmuth always like puts his hands here.

So Helmuth is like always trying to hide his poker tails and stuff like that.

Right.

So i don't know maybe it's maybe it is why ike is doing it maybe ike is doing it because you know he's just trying to stay not sick i really don't know yeah no i think he has made a statement saying he still fears for the c word oh yeah trying to get censored okay do they still do that on youtube i don't know they always the v word for sure yeah

speaking of helmuth do you think he's the goat of poker Yeah, I mean, I don't know if he's a goat.

I think he's certainly has that white magic that he describes.

And, you know, he's certainly...

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Certainly has things that people can't really describe.

I was just watching the movie like Limitless.

You know this movie?

That's a good one.

Yeah, yeah.

Where this guy just takes these pills and he just like turns into a like knows everything.

Helmuth definitely has something there.

But then you know, you can see him.

use that white magic and sometimes it just totally doesn't work.

So

I think to be the goat, you really have to be playing like the high rollers and

these really big binds versus all of the greatest players.

And I think he has said that, you know, his results in the past have shown that he can do that.

But I think that's like a 10 or 11 sample size, like different tournaments he's played.

But I think he needs to play more.

You look at someone like Daniel Negrano.

Daniel Negranu is playing these big high rollers against the best in the world.

And he's like final tabling a lot of them.

Even right now, he's final tabled like a bunch of WSP events, you know.

So I just think that he needs to put him, he needs to be playing these bigger events if he wants to be the GOAT.

And it takes for sure a ton of skill to navigate in these really big field events, like, you know, 1K, 2K plus players.

And if you can go far in those, like, that's a whole nother separate skill set he has for sure.

Um, but I just think he needs to be playing bigger tournaments with the highest level pros of today to be considered the goat.

He's definitely, all credit to him, he's, I mean, he's got the most bracelets and everything so he's definitely a huge winner in poker and he's like i said he's got white magic he's got some sort of something that people can't really explain a lot of moves he makes and that kind of thing but but yeah my i don't know who my goat is i think i guess i would just say phil ivey because he's got that like he's got a he's got a lore right like he's got a a a certain sense of him where he's he's

um kind of unknown right he he had this like bachrot scandal a long time ago not not bachrot but um uh it was bach it was it was baker it was edge sorting and something i think it was with baker yeah with bachar and so like that was for that was huge news i just think he doesn't do a lot of interviews he doesn't do like a lot of press i i i think that aspect of it is very cool and um you know he obviously has had a ton of uh results himself so yeah he's like a mystery right yeah that's what i'm saying yeah i feel like people he's like the mj of poker people exactly right yes exactly i think that's a great comparison people have made that comparison for sure yeah uh who do you think the best is right now, though?

Because I agree.

I think Ivy's the goat, but do you think he's the best right now?

Not probably right now.

No, unless he starts to play way more and starts to win way more.

He's not the best right now.

Right now is probably some guy we've never heard of who's like, you know, from different country, non-U.S.

or something.

We've never heard of him, but he's just been winning a lot and a lot, a lot.

Mateos?

Yeah, maybe Mateos, but there's another guy like Arthur.

Oh, I've seen that name, yeah.

He starts with an M, Arthur M.

Possibly, yeah.

But he just won like a bracelet, and then he just won a huge event at the WSOP or at the win, actually, for like over a million.

And he kind of just comes to the WSOP and just wins a bunch of events and then like goes home.

Like, I need to look it up afterwards.

Sorry, I don't know your name

if you're watching this, but

like I think they did an interview with him and he's like, yeah, the WSOP is my vacation.

I just come here and then play and then go back home.

What a legend.

Yeah.

Yeah, like the Nikola Jokic of World Series of Poker.

Yeah, yeah.

Because he watched basketball.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So I need to look him up, but sorry, I don't know your name.

Well, shout out to him.

Yeah, shout out.

Someone should make a video on him and find out how he's doing that.

Yeah, they'll be like,

they were talking about this guy.

Yeah.

Oh, you mentioned Negrano earlier.

Did you see his beef with Alan Keating?

Yes, of course.

I saw the beef.

Who did you side with on that one?

I don't know if I sided with anyone.

I think I said that,

you know, I think what Keating was doing was good.

I think calling people out is fun.

And I think

it's good for entertainment.

It's good to build things up.

You know, Doug Polk was a master doing this.

He did this all the time.

Everyone, he started a rivalry with Daniel Negrano.

Actually, specifically Daniel Negrano that we're talking about him.

And he got, you know, a heads-up match off that and super entertaining, all that, right?

And so, Alan Keating started to do that, and um, I thought it was going to go further, but I thought Keating was going to play some high rollers, but it looks like he played maybe one in the beginning, like the 25k heads-up match, and he didn't continue after that.

But, um, yeah, I think what he did was cool.

I think it's fine, it's funny.

I think Daniel Negrando shouldn't have taken it like too personal or whatever.

Even in Daniel Negrando's podcast, he didn't even really want to like mention Keating's name.

Wow.

Yeah, like he's talking to his wife, Amanda, and their podcast that gets a little crazy, says some crazy stuff about what they do in their

private life.

But he mentioned

like

his wife was his wife Amanda was like, can we not even say his name?

And Daniel's like, no, no, we can.

Keating, like Keating.

And so he like brings it out.

Like, finally, he says Keating.

But but yeah, I think I think it's all good for poker.

I think it's all entertainment.

You know, this is a entertaining industry, right?

Like you have to be, you have to, it's kind of just like social media influencers, right?

Like, why not start something?

Why not talk to someone?

That kind of thing.

Like, I think it's fine.

Yeah.

And I'm a fan of that.

So I had Jamie Gold on last week and he was talking about how you can't really talk at the table anymore if you're mid-hand.

And I think we should bring that back.

Yeah.

I mean, can you not talk at the table?

And like, what's...

Oh, I think he meant like if you're mid-hand and it's you against someone and there's people at the table.

Oh, something like that.

Yeah.

If there's other people involved in the hand, you can't.

But I think if it's heads up, you can, right?

If it's heads up, okay.

Yeah.

If it's heads up, I'm pretty sure you're allowed to say anything as long as it doesn't have to do with the Agaz act like hand like oh I have aces what are you gonna do you can't really say that like I think that'll get you in trouble really yeah because you're like influencing like the the play of what you have and that kind of thing but I agree I think you should be able to talk it makes it more fun to watch man when Jamie won his his title he was shit talking the whole way to the final table yeah and it was just so entertaining you know what I mean and you don't see that anymore yeah now when I see guys at the final table at the main event I don't even know any of them yeah And it's like, what are you known for?

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It would be pretty baller if someone at the final table of the main event this year

just comes in and is just like, I'm going to beat you all.

And he just starts talking shit as soon as he sits down.

Even who knows what his stack is, but that would be sick.

I think it'd be good for poker.

Yeah.

It'd be hilarious.

I think everyone's acting like an NPC and just following GTO.

And it's like.

Everyone thinks they have to be quiet and just be silent and hide their face and that kind of thing.

And I will say part of that has to do with your confidence level in your game.

I got to be honest like when i first started playing poker i might have done that like um

you know because it was it was uh so

intimidating intimidating yeah it was so intimidating when i was playing um when i first started so you want to like you know kind of like put yourself in a shell like you don't want to talk to anybody but Once you have some confidence and you get more used to playing and you have a better game, then it becomes way easier and you can definitely start shit talking and talking to anybody at the table and having fun.

Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

Do you talk your shit when you play?

I don't talk shit, but I talk for fun.

You know, I'll just be like, you know, what are you going to do?

And, you know, just or just have fun table talk, you know, even if it's not during the hand, just talk to people at the table.

Because most people don't talk to people, you know, these days, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't like that.

Yeah.

I think like when I grew up watching poker on the TV, everyone was just friends talking with each other.

Yeah.

And I feel like it's not like that anymore.

No, for sure.

It's, it's

in the what, in total, like in the like public mostly.

It's not like that, but for sure.

Do you just play every day, like in Vegas, like at the casinos?

Sometimes at the casinos, sometimes online, and sometimes in private games for different events or whatever it is.

Yeah.

And are you pretty much profitable at those games?

Yeah, for sure.

It's kind of strange because after being in poker like this long by now, you can kind of choose when you want to play a little bit crazy.

You can choose when you want to play for sure.

Like, I want to win tonight no matter what.

You can choose like if you don't care as much, maybe it's smaller stakes and you just want to have like an entertaining hand for a vlog or like for social media.

You can choose this stuff like at a certain level.

What a cool skill to have to know you could just make money whenever you want.

Yeah.

I mean, it kind of sounds crazy because you're, you know, like someone who doesn't know poker is like, you're still gambling.

You're not going to be like making money whenever you want.

But in reality, like if you're doing the right things over and over and over, you can.

You know, you may not make money in one specific spot, but you're gonna make money like

the longer you play, the better, yeah.

Right, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, because you've probably seen almost every hand imaginable at this point, yeah, yeah.

So, nothing phases you, not necessarily that nothing phases me, but I mean, there was there was a hand at the wind recently, for example, like final three players.

One player had like 10 blonde, 10 big blinds, the chip leader had like 40 big blinds, and the second place leader had uh like 30 big blinds, right?

So, the 10 big blind stack was in the big blind with tens, small blind had kings, and the uh uh chip leader had seven eight off wow and they're playing for like millions so the pay def pay differences between these three places is millions huge right

the chip leader because there's so much icm pressure this is like a nerd like term but it has to do with uh the pay the payouts right because there's so much icm pressure the chip leader just jams seven eight off damn and so like

small blind is supposed to fold like a lot of really good hands he's not folding kings but he's supposed to fold a lot same thing with big blind anyways because he has kings he calls and the big blind i don't think really knew much about icm i don't think he's supposed to call with here with tens but he he calls and the run out is like he flops top set with kings and then there's a seven on flop turn seven river seven no way he ends up with quads and the tournament's over just like that holy crap yeah this is something uh i just saw recently on twitter and uh a player who's like really big right now named jesse

I don't know his last name, but he goes, he goes by like gorilla.

I'm sure you know who he is, but he tweeted about it.

And it's just like an insane hand that you would never expect to see live.

You know, that's like an online movie hand.

No, that's the dots.

That's one of the craziest ones I've ever heard of.

Yeah, that kind of made me, I don't know what we were talking about, but it made me think of that instant.

Does anything phase you?

No, yeah.

Oh, that would like phase you, you know, for sure.

That would phase you.

Have you ever had a Royal Flush?

I had it one time at the win, but they don't, but they don't have any bonuses.

So like the dealer essentially, it was hit it on the river or something.

It wasn't a big pot, and I'm like, oh, look what I got.

And the dealer's like mucking the cards and like, it doesn't matter because it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter.

They don't pay out like a bonus or anything.

Really?

Yeah.

Because certain casinos pay you like

2001 or something, right?

Exactly.

Certain casinos give you like a big payout, like high-hand bonus just for hitting a royal, like $1,000 or whatever it may be.

And because win, for whatever reason, they don't do that, which I think is fine just because I think, you know, they're a better like environment casino, and that kind of thing than a lot.

But they didn't have any bonus.

And yeah, so I was just like, oh, let me take a picture.

Nope, it's gone.

You like playing out the wind a lot?

Yeah, I like the wind.

It's probably the nicest hotel in Vegas.

For sure, for sure.

Yeah, shout out to the wind.

And they have a lot of tournaments during the World Series, right?

Yeah, tournaments and cash games.

Everything's big there.

Yeah.

They have a little Molly's room in the back somewhere.

I've heard about this, but

I've never seen it.

They have the back, like the big stakes in the back, but then there's like a another

level.

You probably need like a million to get in there.

Probably, probably.

What's the wildest place you've played?

Like, Celebrity's House or something?

No, no.

Wildest place I've played.

I don't know.

I need to.

See, this is, I need to play at more wild places.

You know what I'm saying?

Like a Molly's Room story.

No, no, no.

Nothing like that.

Yeah, probably just

crazy apartment or something.

You've never been shocked.

The person next to you is like a celebrity or?

Well, no.

No big celebrity.

Actually, I think I maybe Michael Phelps one time.

that's really big yeah because like in uh mgm national harbor he's from like maryland and uh i i might have played with him one time and then like um yeah that's really it i love poker because it brings people together people you would have never talked to oh yeah

and actually uh i forgot i i i didn't play with him but i saw mr beast at the wind oh that's playing he was playing with like his his whole crew at the win bro his style is crazy yeah he goes all in every two hands oh yeah like like you're talking about his play at like the hustler

yeah have you played on the hustler Not yet.

No, no.

Have they invited you or you just don't want to?

I just haven't done it yet.

And yeah,

I probably could if I wanted to, but I just haven't yet.

Yeah.

They've done well at branding players.

That's what I mean about bringing back the talk because like Nick Arabal, like what's that one guy that got in the cheating scandal?

Forget his name, but the Robbie cheated against him.

Oh, yeah, Gary Adelstein.

Gary Adelstein.

Yeah.

Built him up.

Rampage, Mariano.

They've done well, right?

Yeah, for sure.

Do you like those poker live stream setups?

Yeah, I like them.

They're very entertaining.

uh some players um like who are more serious at poker are like they're not playing real poker they're just going all in all the time and that kind of thing but then like it definitely has real poker as well so i think there's a mix but some some months it's the wild stuff and some months maybe it's the more serious stuff but um yeah i mean i think any poker stream is really good for poker yeah so you think for tucci will be able to come back or you think it's too far too far gone oh man i don't want to get in trouble here i've already uh oh you already made a video on this yeah well i mean I've made a couple of videos about it.

And

yeah, I mean, I don't know.

We'll see.

Apparently, he's been playing in Vegas recently.

Yeah.

But I don't know.

I don't think he's going to come back in terms of like becoming a big name or something.

I think he'll just be like a kind of forgotten.

Like, oh, look, there he is, you know.

But yeah, I don't know.

I don't think he'll come back.

I think there's, yeah.

There's a few things that you can really be permanently canceled over, and I think he did one of them.

Yeah.

There's not many.

You got to really fuck up these days.

Yeah, that's true.

Because a lot of people get canceled and they come back, but that's the one where it's like, I don't know, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

He had some crazy stuff going on and definitely didn't come out of that very, very well.

What about Tom Duan?

You think he's going to be able to come back?

Tom Duan, yeah, I think he'll come back for sure.

Tom Duan, I mean, he's always been huge in poker, obviously, since, you know, a young age when he was playing Phil Helmuth and Phil Helmuth said, Oh, I'll see you in five years.

See where you're at, or 10 years, or whatever you said.

Legendary moment.

Yeah, I'll see you where you're at in 10 years.

And 10 years later, he was bigger than ever.

But yeah, I mean, Tom Juwan recently had some sort of mental health scare, I guess,

go on.

So hopefully he's good from that.

I mean, he was, I think, on a plane and had something happen.

And then when he landed like in London, he was taken to some sort of mental facility.

This is, I think, how I remember it and see it.

And he was trying to text his friends and that kind of thing on Twitter to help him out.

But hopefully he's good from that now.

I mean, mental health is serious and that kind of thing.

But I think he'll definitely come back.

And Tom Juan is a legend of poker and he'll be back.

Yeah.

Sending good energy your way, Tom, if you see this.

Yeah.

I think the mental health of a poker player is a very fascinating topic.

Yeah.

It's such an up and down lifestyle, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I was thinking, like, what do you consider the highest like stress level careers, right, ever?

Maybe poker player could be one of them.

You know, they say, like, a plane, someone who directs traffic, what air traffic controller, they say that's like one of them.

But, you know, where do you put poker player at, like, as a career or a professional gambler?

Like,

betting and losing thousands, tens of thousands of every day, like.

could be pretty harsh on someone's mental.

I would put it up there just of the fact of the swings.

Yeah.

Because obviously you have some really high moments, but then you could lose all your money in one night.

Yes.

So the swing of that, most people cannot take that, I think.

For sure.

And I think this is even why they have like mental game coaches, like how to how to handle like a big loss, like this kind of thing.

They had this kind of thing for poker.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Even, I mean, it's more of a thing that high-level players play, like super high-level, you know, 100K buy-ins and this kind of thing.

And you go on a millions and millions of dollars downswing.

How do you handle it?

But, but yeah, it's, it can be taxing.

Have you ever had a nasty downswing where you were questioning your your lifestyle yeah for sure i mean had a big downswing and just it really mainly happens in tournaments and it's like why am i playing tournaments like i talked about earlier like why am i i should just stop playing tournaments and when play cash and i'll not have this such a crazy downswing um but yeah i've had it and i mean i guess i'm not yet at the level where it's been too too bad so yeah i can see with tournaments because you're putting in hours into each one and then you get nothing exactly that just compiles up or even if you get far and you get like 10th place but you were in for like five buy-ins like

okay you broke even or you still lost a little bit of money spent three days on it yeah and it's like was that worth it well if you got first yes but you got 10th so yeah so that's why the main event i mean it's a stamina contest too right yeah that's something uh phil home youth i just saw is even trying to like change because he thinks it's like too much of a stamina contest like 10 days is a lot yeah it's like so many days in a row he wants it to where there's like one day that's a break um i think maybe after like three or four days he wants like a one day break because he doesn't see it as something that you know like a older person like 60 plus years old could really handle so it's a valid point because all the previous winners have been relatively young right yeah probably i think so yeah from what i've seen at least so maybe he could get that through what do you think about that yeah i mean it's funny because i was just watching uh interview by uh chance and helmet i think they just had it like a day ago so shout out chance for his uh podcast.

But, um, Helmeth was saying, like, you know, you can't, uh, you have, he was trying to get this change.

He, like, put it out there as he actually said, I'm not going to play the main event if this doesn't happen.

And everyone was like, Yeah, okay, we don't believe you.

And I don't, I think he went back on it and said, He put out, he put out a poll and something about the poll, but yeah, that's another thing about Helmuth.

Um, but, anyways, um,

so

it, it, it kind of uh,

it's not a thing that

sorry, I lost my point with Helmuth.

It's not like the rule change with the time 10 days.

Do you think that's too long?

Yeah, I think like Helmuth makes a very valid point about it being too long.

But

like you were talking about, there hasn't been many young winners recently, but I think that's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, good luck because you're planning it tomorrow, right?

Either tomorrow or Friday or what's tomorrow, Friday?

Either tomorrow or Saturday.

Yeah.

How much planning and strategy goes into the main event?

Are you just going in blind?

No.

So, I mean, the years of my past experience have really is what prepared me for the main event, probably.

Like, I played it twice.

And I think the first year I went in like too aggressive.

Like, I forbade like ace nine off or something versus someone, and they had like queens.

And it's just like, not, you shouldn't play aggressive because everyone playing is playing like extremely tight.

Right.

So, you know, they're going to have higher value hands than you think, um, basically.

So, uh, my plan is to just play tight.

And maybe when it gets towards the end of the night or something and people are more concerned about making day two, that's when you play a bit, you know, more aggressive.

Smart, you know, so.

Yeah.

So 10,000 people, only the top 1,500 cash, right?

Yeah, I think it's something like that.

You got to make it deep, like day six, day seven.

Or I think it's maybe, yeah, maybe day five, day six.

Yeah.

Which is pretty nuts.

You could play for four days, 12 hours a day, and not make money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that's brutal.

Yeah, that's crazy.

And you could be playing amazing and then you have two bad hands.

Yeah, that's why poker is such an interesting game to me.

Yeah, you could be playing so well and then lose it all.

Yeah, off one bad hand.

For sure, for sure.

It's an unforgiving game.

Yes.

Well, dude, it's been cool.

We'll link your YouTube below.

Hopefully, it's not banned by the time this airs.

Anything else you want to close off with?

No.

Really?

Yeah.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Good luck in the main event.

Hope you make a deep run.

Thank you.

Check them out, guys, and I'll see you next time.