Why Independent Media Will Overtake Corporates by 2030 | Sage Steele DSH #1136

Met at 20,

married at 26,

27, divorced at 47.

So 27 years of my life.

Oh, for sure.

And it doesn't didn't end the way I wanted, but like I have the three best kids from it.

I learned so much.

Oh my gosh.

I learned so much.

Love that.

And you'll be great.

I was trying to be funny.

Like, yeah, I divorced him.

Good luck with that.

All right, guys, got Sage Steel here today.

We finally made it happen.

Finally.

Thank you for not hating me.

No, you're good.

You were so busy at Amfest, I didn't want to intrude.

Well, that was amazing.

That was my first time.

Had you been there before?

First time and same, same experience.

It was amazing.

Blown away.

I was hoping to come on your show in Vegas, though, because any excuse to get out there.

Vegas is a fun time.

So can we do it again out there?

We'll do a part two in Vegas.

Okay.

We were talking about Florida.

I think Vegas is a close second to Florida.

Totally agree.

I was going to look at places out there, especially because all the sports teams are there.

You know, it's, I love Vegas.

I love the heat.

I used to live in Arizona.

I lived in Scottsdale

seven or eight years ago.

Fell in love with the desert and all that comes with it.

So I'm the girl that's like, bring on 118.

I'm fine with the hot, hot.

I love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

Yeah.

Vegas gets really dry, though.

That's the one thing.

Your lips are trapped.

I know.

And you constantly have your water bottles.

That's how Arizona was.

Same thing.

I like it.

That's better than this.

Yeah.

DC.

I mean, you know, weather-wise, not the best.

Hard to beat Cali, though.

True, but there's other reasons why I wouldn't go to Cali.

Yeah, I mean, the fires.

Many.

Holy crap.

They handled that probably the worst of all time.

Heartbreaking and still can't even show some accountability.

That's what blows me away.

But I shouldn't be surprised.

We shouldn't be surprised.

Yeah, I didn't see any accountability from Karen or Newsome.

Nope.

Just blaming.

Yeah.

And when Newsom says, you know,

you know, like, what happened?

And we're trying to figure it out.

We're trying to, we're asking local officials and they're telling us, you're the governor.

You're the boss.

Right.

Like, it's, I know people, I'm sure you do too, have lost homes, gone.

Yeah.

And I am devastated for those people.

He's just deflecting.

And these people, a lot of them didn't have insurance.

And that's partially his fault too, because they were negotiating with the insurance companies and it fell through.

Exactly.

No one's, they're just making the insurance companies out to be bad.

I'm not saying I love insurance companies.

However,

we talked about this before.

Think about just PCH, just that area there, Malibu and Pacific Palisades, the tens of billions of dollars that those homes are worth for any insurance company to pull out of there, knowing what they could potentially make, just those premiums every month or year,

insane, probably highest in the country.

That tells you how bad off that area was and how it was too much of a risk for them.

And they pulled.

So, from a business perspective, I get it and I understand it.

And if you can't make money, like at some point, we can do our shows and our podcasts.

I don't know, give it a couple of years, let it get going.

At some point, if you're not making money and you're in the red, that's a bad business decision for you to keep doing your show.

They're no different.

And I think people need to acknowledge the why.

Why did they choose to pull out?

And that's because of what California was not doing to

help.

You can't prevent them fully, but you can be prepared.

Absolutely.

Look.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

How has your transition been from corporate media to independent?

Because you were in corporate for 20 plus years, right?

Yeah, 29 years.

29 years.

Yeah.

Wow.

It's so weird.

I'm still getting used to it because I think you're trained, honestly, as we should be as journalists to

focus on the story, focus on your job, which does not involve your opinion.

And now all of a sudden I'm saying what I think and that's really weird.

It feels weird, right?

Yeah.

And then you get, you get, you get more clicks and cancellations and all the things, but the best part is that I don't care.

I love it.

It just took a long time.

Like you're a lifetime ahead of me.

It's awesome.

Like once you can not care,

honestly, like anything is possible.

It just took me a long time.

It took me the podcast to realize that too, because I used to care about what people thought of me.

Yeah.

Up until I started the show.

So 25 years for me.

But yeah, it's been a game changer.

Now I can wake up.

I don't care.

I get hate every day.

Yeah, so how do you handle the hate?

It used to get to me like when I was younger, but now it's like people are going to hate no matter what you do.

Mr.

Beast gets hate.

He's saving lives.

Yeah.

You know, like it's inevitable.

It's often, I think, also envy,

jealousy.

Yeah.

Well, they say it's a projection of their insecurities.

And when you look at the comments and you click on their profile, it's usually not like, I'm not trying to like generalize, but they're not doing high-level things.

And then they see this somebody that they might compare themselves to.

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Age-wise or whatever.

Yeah.

And they're like, who's this guy?

Yeah.

Half the time it's a fake profile.

How do you know?

Because it's like a random name, no pictures.

It's like they use an alternative account to leave the comment.

So it's not their real account because they're ashamed of of putting their real face out there.

Yeah, grow a pair.

Yeah.

All these people.

I can't.

Do you get a lot of hate on social media?

I do.

You do.

Yeah.

Which platform?

Um, it's funny on Instagram, it's like they have to find you,

you know,

and

um, they find me.

But I'm really okay.

It's taken a long time.

I've had to train my mom to not read the comments.

Oh, poor mom.

Because I think that'd be the hard thing.

And as I'm a mother, and I think that if I saw people attacking my child, no matter how old your child is,

and you know the truth, that'd be very hard to take.

It's almost easier to take yourself, but if someone comes after your kids, watch out, honestly.

So I've trained her to not look and not go and don't respond, but

she'll get engaged.

Mom.

I love that.

Because some of the things people say, it's one thing to be mean, it's another thing to be threatening.

Yeah.

There's a line.

A really filthy.

There's a lot of filth.

When you start bringing family involved that's kind of my line when you're doxing people when you're threatening physical violence you know yeah death threats i've had them whoa people wishing you would die or threatening to rape your daughters holy crap yeah all because i have different opinions from them was that mainly the vaccine opinion or was it a different one some race stuff

yeah wow As a biracial woman, I'm proud of all of me, not just half of me.

And if I,

because I, my dad's black, my mom's white, white, because I acknowledge my white mom too.

There's many in the black community,

she sell out, you know, one drop rule.

I'm like,

what is that?

Why do you care to that level?

Isn't that diversity?

And you being biracial as well?

Like,

I think that's the diverse part where our parents, especially mine in 1970, came off the civil rights era, you know, where they had to put up with some stuff.

And it was a very different America then, but they didn't let their,

you know, their fears or society or even their families who didn't approve get in the way.

So why wouldn't I celebrate their courage?

Exactly.

I'm not here without them.

You know, yeah.

People don't like it.

If I said it, said I'm all black, then it's fine.

But if they, if I say, I'm half white because I am,

people can't handle it.

That happened to the rapper Logic.

Do you know him?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's half black, half white.

And he got made fun of for saying he was half white too.

You mean when he was a kid or recently?

No, he made a song about it.

And like, I don't know.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

But it's like, I'm grateful for being biracial because I got to experience both perspectives.

You know, people were racist to me for being Asian, it's whatever, but I got to experience like my Irish perspective and the Asian perspective.

I think it's huge to me.

Again, that defines diversity.

That's what we, that's what America was supposed to be and is.

People just, you know, they like to pick and choose the diversity.

Yeah.

And you're a fan of diversity.

We were just talking out there about how the area you live in now, there's so many different languages, right?

Yeah.

In South Florida, so many, and it's funny, my son, he's a junior in college right now, but a couple years ago, we're down there before I moved to Florida full time.

And he was like, mom, why is everyone better looking down here?

Like, it's true.

It's what vitamin D does for you, you know?

But from every country, there's always different languages being spoken on the streets of Miami and Fort Lauderdale.

It's really, it's really cool.

More so than, you know, I spent the 17 years prior in Connecticut where ESPN was.

So not much diversity there, right?

Definitely not.

Yeah.

I got similar stuff in New Jersey.

I'd say.

Yeah.

Interesting.

The Northeast, where the people that claim to be the most diverse.

Yeah.

A lot of white people, a lot of Asians up there, pretty much.

Yeah.

You know, upper middle class town.

So yeah, it's good to get out of your, wherever you grow up to get out and experience the actual world.

I think so.

You have to.

Yeah.

A lot of people are just stuck in their hometown.

It's easier.

You know, safer.

Yeah.

But there's no growth in that.

There really isn't.

And I get it.

Maybe you, maybe you end up there, but go explore some things.

Go experience life.

Go fall on your face.

Yeah.

You know, you're going to fail.

You're going to doubt.

You're going to be fearful, probably,

but you're going to be okay.

Give yourself two years.

Yeah.

And then you come back with a new perspective.

If anyone else, I was watching you on Tucker, and I know you had big aspirations even at a super young age, right?

At 11 years old, you wanted to work for ESPN.

I knew when I was 11 that I wanted to be a sportscaster.

Yeah.

That's so young.

It is young.

I just knew, honestly, I could tell from that young age that

sports was a unifier.

Sports brought people together.

And your race, your religion, your socioeconomic status, your politics, nothing matters when it comes to a football Sunday, you know, that's true.

Or Notre Dame and Ohio State playing in the national championship game, whoever it is.

Like you,

for those three hours, that Notre Dame half 20,000 people, high five and like they like family.

And it doesn't matter what you look like.

And I think that's beautiful yeah that's why sports is so important think about coming out of covid and what donald trump helped do which was to bring college sports back and football in particular people needed that they felt like they really

needed the escape and also just to come together in that way and it was through football yeah so to me i noticed that at a young age and i wanted to be a part of it Yeah, sports is beautiful.

Now they are kind of interjecting politics a bit.

You got guys like Stephen Nae Smith talking politics almost every day now, which is interesting.

Some of the athletes are speaking up too.

So it's going to be interesting to see how that progresses, right?

It is.

And Stephen A is a unicorn.

I mean, he's really probably the hardest working person I've ever been around as far as someone else on air.

So smart.

He is so smart.

And he's fearless.

With his words, he has the most confidence in himself.

Like he, I saw him on Dave Rubin's podcast recently, and he said that when the lights go on, he feels like there's no one better in the world in front of the camera than himself.

And you're like, oh, Stephen A.

But I get that mentality.

That's what you have to be to be great.

That's what you have to think, whether you're an athlete or an executive, right?

Yeah.

Stephen A is interesting, though, because there's the ESPN rules, then there's Stephen A rules, very different rules.

He's on another level.

He is.

And he can go on Hannity.

or Cuomo or any of these shows.

DBD.

All of them.

He doesn't even have to ask and say whatever he he wants.

And then he has his own show.

He has his own show on YouTube,

podcast, whatever.

That is completely separate from ESPN.

There's no tie.

It's all his.

And

they actually promote it.

Really?

At the bottom, the lower third on the bottom of the screen on a first take is ESPN show.

They promote the podcast that which they don't make a penny from.

So he convinced them.

Like, he's brilliant.

He's a brilliant businessman.

Yeah.

I think he signed one of the highest deals of all time, right?

Yeah,

$125.

Something crazy.

Yeah.

So he is arguably the GOAT of sports broadcasting, right?

Different way.

There's your journalist, there's your hosts, there's your anchors, your sports center anchors, whatever it is.

And then there's your pundits like Steve, who,

you know, are there their analysts and they're to give their opinion.

Completely different job.

I can see that.

It is a new era, though.

You got all these athletes like Shannon Sharp starting up media empires now, and they're getting unreal numbers.

Yeah.

It's crazy to see.

Like, do you see podcasts overtaking traditional media in terms of viewership?

I do.

Look what Megan Kelly's done, you know, and I think that she say in the month of November or October, November, whenever it was, that

her little streaming show blew MSNBC out of the water.

Really?

Yeah.

Wow.

Pretty amazing.

I mean, some of these shows are getting a million downloads an episode.

Yeah.

It's nuts.

Remember when Rogan did Trump and it was a million an hour?

Yeah.

Hit like 80 million, right?

Something crazy like that.

Can you imagine?

I mean, it's nuts.

I don't know what television networks are pulling, but it can't be close to that.

Oh, no, for sure.

I think also

because there's a distrust of the media by the basic normal Americans, consumers, now they're looking elsewhere

and they should.

Yeah.

When you were still there, was that distrust starting up?

When did that start happening, you think?

Yeah, I think it was everything started to get very, very political when during the Obama administration, frankly.

Yes.

But once Trump won, it all was like, whoa, and it was a

kind of a, yeah, kind of a free-for-all.

Yeah.

But

I don't know.

I don't recognize the network from what it was when I started in 2007.

That makes me sad.

But I do hope that they can turn the ship around.

It's a choice.

It actually is just a choice.

It's not that hard

because no one is better at producing that content than ESPN.

Well, they'll be forced if they keep losing viewers to do something.

They won't just let it die.

You're right.

I do agree.

But

it's going to have to come from the top.

Do they have the right leadership to do that?

And right now, I think that's questionable.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting.

NBA ratings are all-time low.

Right.

You know, these news stations are getting MSNBC struggling.

Like, you got all these major news outlets struggling.

Aren't they doing layoffs and stuff there too?

Like, I mean, they're not profitable.

So

it's not good.

It's not.

Yeah.

But they push people too far.

That's what it is.

They push people away.

Do you think it's because they were pushing certain agendas too hard?

Yeah, I think this trans issue is really ticked people off yeah you know that was a big one that was huge um

you i i don't know i absolutely think that it was a choice i used to fight with producers i used to really not fight i don't want to say it like that but i used to push back because i'm like what are we doing Why are we choosing this?

We're supporting women.

Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing?

Supporting women?

And then we can't have men's in women's spaces.

It's just that simple.

When the Riley Gaines thing started, I really

was pushing for her, cheering for her, and just wanting to cover the story.

I was like, no, no, no.

So I don't know why.

Like, why'd they choose this hill to die on, you know?

Because it pushed people away.

They wouldn't let you cover that story.

That's crazy.

Yeah, it took many, many months.

Wow.

That was a great question.

That was weird.

That was a major distortion day one, right?

It was already out, I feel like.

Yeah.

It's not like you were breaking the story.

I'd understand it if you were breaking it and it's controversial, but it was already like out there.

It was out, so why is it?

But again, if you are championing women in women's sports, this is the most basic thing.

This is science, yeah.

Like, it's okay that we're different, you guys will always be faster,

stronger than women.

That's fine.

We have great things that you don't.

Like, sorry, you can't have babies no matter what you guys say.

Like, there's certain things that we have that you don't.

Yeah.

But why compare?

You know what I mean?

But just accept us, accept each other for the greatness that is and

stay in your lane.

Fuck.

And I've never once thought,

you know, that transgender people should not be in sports.

No, sports is so healing, like I was saying, and unifying.

Absolutely.

But just not at the expense of women and girls.

This is not that hard.

They wanted us to follow the science with COVID for all those years.

And now this is so basic.

That was an experimental vaccine and we're not sure what to do.

It never happened.

A global pandemic.

We've known the differences between men and women for how many years?

Give me a break.

This is so stupid.

Yeah.

Your take on vaccines, what really drove the nail in the coffin, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, because you were outspoken and you were early on speaking about it.

Because I was forced to get shot.

Oh, they made you get it?

That's why I spoke up.

But I went on.

So Disney forced ESPN and ABC because Disney owns us.

Yeah.

Them, not us.

We're not an US anymore, are we?

I don't work there anymore.

Disney owns ESPN and ABC and said, if you're not vaccinated by September 30th, 2021, then you will be fired.

Damn.

So I went just the very last day to do it because I literally thought I might walk away from my job.

I just was afraid.

I was afraid of taking something that I didn't know enough about.

Like just didn't fit,

didn't feel right, didn't sit well.

But at the end, I have three kids.

I'm not married.

It's all on me.

And so I knew knew that I needed the job, I wanted the job and I love my job too.

But I also needed it.

Makes complete sense, yeah.

So I, that's why I took it, but it's been hard, I've had to forgive myself.

Wow, because I feel like I caved,

and so that's why I talked about it.

Yeah, yeah, no, thanks for bringing that up.

I didn't know Disney made all their employees do that.

Disney's a huge company, 50, 60,000 people, I think.

Oh my gosh, I wonder what percentage of them actually got it.

That's interesting.

I think probably a good chunk.

If you think about it, back then, when it was they put this mandate down and the timing, yeah, three plus years ago,

people still believed and still had hope that this could cure everything and you're not going to get the symptoms as bad, whatever.

People trusted more.

Now they've been exposed.

Yeah, a lot of fear-mongering.

I almost got it.

Did you?

I mean, the fear was all-time high.

You know, there was a lot of fear at that time.

They were doing a great job.

Why did you get it?

Why didn't I?

Why you said you?

I almost got it.

Almost it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't because my my

gut feeling really yeah good for you gut feeling man because there wasn't any data at the time like you said there wasn't any studies and you really just had to trust your intuition I feel like you did and I didn't have a job that was telling me to get it or I wasn't in university universities were forcing people to get it so I was fortunate in that regard because I felt like that added additional pressure 100 yeah and now there's all these lawsuits about it right former employees getting together yeah you know think about what they did kicking people out of the military military, kicking firefighters out of the LA FD.

Yeah.

Because they wouldn't take the shot.

We could have used them.

They could have used them.

Look at the direct impact of that.

Yes.

Yes.

It's

significant.

And I'm just saddened at the levels to which people went to make sure you follow their agenda.

Yeah.

There's a lot of, I mean, I got in trouble for saying what I said, which was just, I think it's sick and scary for any company to force their employees to do this, something to their body.

And I'll stand by that forever.

But at least I'm going to be okay.

A lot of other people won't without a job.

Well, look at history.

You're going to be proven right in the long run.

So there's a lot of us.

Yeah.

There's a handful of us.

I think it's just not what I ever wanted

ever.

I just didn't want to take the shot.

But, you know,

I will say that.

Somebody asked recently if there was, if I felt vindication from it.

And I'm like, no, not really.

I mean sometimes it is like huh told you like breaking news and I'm like no no no we've all reported on this for a long time but

we can't have that in our heart to want to exact revenge on somebody or something you know that's not healthy that takes a toll no you can't live with that regret you know it'll eat at you I saw it with my father oh my gosh really yeah

Well, he never forgave.

He was physically beaten up growing up on a farm.

So he never forgave his parents his whole life.

Wow.

And he had had to live with that.

And he would bring it up like every day.

Oh my God.

And it was just tough.

Like, so he never got that closure because his parents ended up passing away.

So he had to live with that.

Like, oh, I never made peace with that.

You know, that's hard.

Yeah.

It's a lot of stress.

That's all.

I don't think we realize the toll that it does take stress-wise.

Yeah.

I don't think we realize it.

Like, physically,

obviously emotionally, but like, yeah.

Absolutely.

Legit.

But this stuff made everyone question vaccines in general, too.

Yeah.

So it opened the door for that conversation of like, why are kids getting 100 vaccines these days?

You know?

And my kids are 18, 20, and 22.

So back then, you just did it.

Yeah, you didn't question it at all.

I got all mine.

I never once thought like to question it.

Right.

Because I was an athlete.

So you had to get a bunch.

Most, I mean, think of some of the ones, polio, the ones that have been around forever.

Fine.

On average, it takes six to nine years for the FDA to approve a vaccine.

Six to nine years, you know?

So if you're giving me this polio vax or something else, like it's proven, isn't it?

That's different than this throwing it out there and all of a sudden, you know, here, you must take this or else you will die.

Just the fear-mongering was so, so

it breaks my heart.

Yeah.

But now, back in the day, there were four or five vaccines.

And now, to your point, there's 70, 80, 90 that are part of kids'

vaccine shot schedules.

I'm like, crazy.

As soon as they're born, they're getting them

in their eyes.

They're getting injections.

We've allowed this.

I'm looking at home births right now, to be honest.

At what?

Home births.

Oh, for sure.

I'm looking at wellness centers.

I'm looking to not do it in the hospital.

Like, do you have a baby coming?

No, I'm getting married this year, though.

Oh, so we want to.

It's not too public.

I keep her very private.

Yeah.

I'm like that one girl.

Who was it?

Brett Cooper?

Someone keeps their significant other super private.

I'm like that.

Okay.

Yeah.

And

you're already thinking babies.

Yeah.

Well, we've been dating for seven years.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Is that like your first girlfriend?

First one ever.

Wow.

I married my first one.

Yeah.

I'm divorced now.

Oh, don't do me like that.

I'm kidding.

You'll be great.

It's 20 years.

Wow.

High school.

Together for 20.

College?

Same.

Yeah.

And where'd you go?

I went to Rutgers.

She went to see home.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right.

Jersey boy.

Met at 20.

married at 26,

27, divorced at 47.

So 27 years of my life.

Good man.

Oh, for sure.

And

doesn't didn't end the way I wanted, but like, I have the three best kids from it.

I learned so much.

Oh, my gosh.

I learned so much.

I love that.

And you'll be great.

I was trying to be funny.

Like, yeah, I divorced him.

Good luck with that.

But it's,

I think it's, it's awesome that you're already thinking about that.

Yeah.

And you just kind of know when you're with the right person right you know yeah i want two to three kids two to three 2.5 yeah we were joking about that yesterday you were yeah two two kids and then one adopted 2.5

okay it would still be a third

it's not half of a human yeah yeah we were just we were messing around but but you're we want two of our own at least when when's the wedding october Oh,

I look forward to it.

I'll be there.

Yeah, I'll send you an invite.

I'm inviting myself.

Where is it?

Jersey.

You're going home for it.

Yeah.

You don't like Jersey, it sounds like.

Jersey's underrated.

There's some beautiful parts.

There are.

It is a garden state.

But just living is different than.

No, I don't think I could live there.

But no, I just love that

you're so young and totally no.

I know.

I'm changing that narrative because a lot of people in my era, just this hookup culture is like super popular, you know?

It is.

So you've never done the apps or anything?

I met her on an app, but

I wasn't like hooking up like every weekend, you know?

Yeah, like that's the problem and so then imagine being single at my age i got divorced at 47

and i'd been with you know i mean 20 years 27 years so there were no dating apps when i was single last time so i'm like how do i do this i have no idea this is awful i went on raya for a minute

and then i was like oh gosh i i was afraid to like hurt somebody you know i'm like oh no they're not gonna hurt me back and so i quit the app i couldn't do it i never connected with anybody really i mean i think like a text like two people okay but then i think they probably googled me they're like i'm out

to be fair it must be tough dating someone like you as a guy you know so that's an interesting take and i think

i think there's something to that because you're so successful you're in the public spotlight so as a guy they want to be the natural provider you know Oh, dude, you're getting deep on me.

And that is so true.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm going to say it.

Like

I'm very traditional.

So it was hard to be the breadwinner.

I didn't want to be.

Yeah.

When I was married.

I didn't, I didn't want to be.

I wanted to be home with the kids and have this dream, but I didn't want, like, I wanted to provide for my husband.

I wanted to do those things that my mom did for my dad.

And also, she worked at times too.

So it was a beautiful balance.

My parents, I'm 52.

They'll be married 54 years this year.

Beautiful.

Like, I had the best example, honestly.

I think people underestimate the importance of some of those gender roles

and it isn't for everybody, but I do know for a fact as a mother having given birth three times and

there's something in us as nurturers that

I mean, when you have a child grow in your body and give birth, like there's a forever bond there.

Oh, yeah.

And it's very, very hard for most, not all, but most women to

not be there.

Like I wasn't there for her first step.

My husband was great at the time and he made it so that I was.

Filmed it.

He filmed it.

Yeah.

And knew I was going to really struggle with that.

But

most men, yes, have a, have trouble with women who make more money than them.

And he was a full-time stay-at-home dad.

So I made all the money.

Yeah.

That's tough.

It is tough.

And a lot of men wouldn't do that role.

He did a great job for the years that he did.

You know what I mean?

Like that was super helpful to my kids for to me to know that my kids were with the best person possible.

We didn't want nannies.

That's why, you know,

but

the ego gets in the way and I understand it.

Yeah.

You think it's ego or you think it's just like

that natural desire to like want to be a provider, you know?

I think it's probably a little bit of both.

Yeah.

Maybe something else too.

Maybe there's other factors.

And comparison too, because he probably sees his friends, you know,

social media or whatever

well

and i mean frankly

he was supposed to go back to work after the youngest got into first grade and he never did oh wow and never did and it still doesn't damn so yeah you treated him super well is that what you call it where's the wine

why is this just tea yeah we're getting deep because here we are but like and i'm not trying to but at the end of the day

most men like if you're if you're out on a golf course and you and you get you know paired up with another two, so

um

you know, it's like, hey, how are you?

Nice to meet you.

What's your name?

Yeah, what do you do?

Oh, that's the first question we asked.

You guys do, right?

So, when you have to answer that the way he did,

that's interesting, that's different.

That's a little degrading, yeah.

Or, or not, like, he was proud, he was proud of it, you know, but then it's like, well, then they found out what his wife did, and it was like, oh, so there's a couple different layers there.

I just think, like, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get married again.

I met somebody that's really incredible

and I am so relieved and so grateful.

And I said how important it is for me to

be there for him, to support him as a man and as a breadwinner.

And as even though I don't even know, I might make more.

I don't know.

I don't care.

But the point is,

I love that role.

Not all women do, but I do think there's something to it.

And I'm excited to be able to do that because I wasn't able to do that before.

But it is truly, it comes down to communication.

Yeah.

It really does.

Absolutely.

But at the end of the day, again, we underestimate the importance of those roles.

And

I'm sorry.

Beta men, go away.

Oh, I cannot.

I worked with some of them.

I'm trying to really

what I say, whether it's personally or professionally.

Like

beta men, that's one of the things that's wrong with our society right now.

Like grow a pair.

Be a man.

Yeah.

Well, part of that's just the low testosterone levels.

Like guys are at all time lows right now.

Why is that?

A lot of reasons.

The food, the water, quality of like your surrounding.

But basically our grandparents' testosterone, like our grandfathers, it's like five times higher than guys right now.

If you look at the studies.

I like to be holistic personally.

People can do whatever they want, but just measure your levels if you're watching this as a guy, because that could be why you're a little beta.

You know,

can I use bad language?

Yeah, you can.

And a lot of media programming, too.

Yeah, no, I think 100% in the social media.

Yes.

In social media and television shows, they portray the husband as kind of an idiot on some of them.

Yes.

And which was funny back in the day with what was it?

Love and marriage.

I know that song.

I've heard that song.

Al Bundy.

Yeah.

What was that show?

Alberti Guy?

Married with children?

Married with children.

Was that it?

No.

I've heard of that name.

So funny.

Comedy.

Like, and he was just owl

big belly.

And he's like, you know,

give me a beer.

And, you know, he's just stupid owl.

And, you know, of course, when you, he didn't put the laundry away.

Like, it's funny.

And then people got offended by that, you know?

And then me too.

And then it's like, if you liked my jacket sweater, which is pretty great, isn't it?

It's one piece it's amazing but if you say that at work like

oh my god i feel uncomfortable and i feel like he's you know objectifying me and i feel harassed like stop that's what happens though yeah you know and so you guys have been put in a tough position by women where you feel you can't even like do a nice average compliment to somebody

so i think yes and it's and i understand why you are but that also probably contributes but no my dad is a retired army colonel west Point.

Like we did room inspections every Saturday morning growing up, like he did at West Point.

And he's also a gentle giant, was the best father to all of us.

I have two brothers, but also has a girl.

Yeah.

But like,

he's tough

and he led.

He guided.

He made, and this is a word that I need all men to listen to of all ages.

Make sure your partner feels safe.

Please make her feel safe.

Love that.

And it's literally and it's figuratively.

And some little things.

Like if you're walking along the streets out here in DC,

which side is the man on?

Should the man be on?

Closest to the road.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I learned that the hard way.

The first time I didn't do that.

No way.

Yeah.

With your girlfriend?

Yeah, but now I do it every time.

What'd she say?

She was like, what are you doing?

I'm like, what do you mean?

Like, I didn't know at the time.

So.

Yeah.

So now you make sure your son does that.

Like, make me feel safe and protected.

If there's something that needs to be taken care of in the home and like, okay, the plumber was supposed to show up and didn't show up.

Okay.

I'm fully capable of calling the plumber and saying, what the hell?

But like, I got you.

You know what I mean?

Like, I think there's so many women who are super successful, but sometimes just want to come home and not feel like I still have to be the man.

Whether it's with the kids, with discipline.

And as moms, don't let your kids walk all over you either.

But like, it's fun.

You know, I remember my mom being like, when your dad gets home, you know,

but in general, how do you make a woman feel safe?

And a lot, a big part of that is providing.

That doesn't mean she needs diamonds and furs and materialistic things either, but like the safe word is it, because I can go crush it at work.

I've done it for years.

Yeah.

I just want to come home and feel like, cause I worked on a man's world.

You did.

Like the ultimate.

And you did it before DEI.

You did it the hard way.

Long before.

The stuff that I I saw and experienced, whether it would be in the newsroom or in a locker room.

Oh my God, the book's going to be good someday if I can get rid of it.

But like just let and not all women,

I don't need a man.

Really?

Okay, fine.

We need each other.

We do need each other.

And I think that that's

not appreciated as much anymore.

And I think to say that you're considered, you know, some Bible beating Christian right-wing nut job.

I'm like, okay, call me what you want.

But I know when you look at the numbers and the breakdown of the family right right now, it's devastating.

And I think that that's one reason why.

A lot of single parent households right now.

Yeah.

And you got kids not respecting their parents and they're just going haywire.

Yeah.

You know?

So what kind of parent are you going to be?

I'm going to be a good one because I witnessed divorce at a young age.

My parents got divorced when I was in fourth grade.

And I saw what that did to me.

It shut me down completely.

I went from being the class clown to like the shyest kid in school overnight.

Serious?

Yeah.

So I lived with that.

Because I didn't have a father figure.

My dad left and then he disappeared for like a year without seeing him at all.

And then I would see him on weekends a little bit.

But by then, he was so damaged from his second divorce mentally and then the childhood abuse and stuff.

So basically, I grew up without a father figure.

And as a man, that's tough.

So my confidence was so low.

Sports is what kind of saved me because I was kind of athletic.

And that helped me build some confidence and some work ethic.

See, full circle.

It's priceless to have your kids involved in sports, even if they're not a great athlete, right?

Like if you, if you have a young boy, young, you know little girl it's like mine were required to play a sport at all times required i'm going to do that with mine too yes and it isn't even about the sport it's about teamwork it's that it's not just it's not just about you and you you know making that shot who passed the ball to you you know what i mean but sports teaches so many life lessons um and creates friendships and relationships and for sure losing and the whole not everybody gets a trophy hell yeah like that's how it is go earn it yep you know what i mean i'm in a men's basketball league right now and i look forward to it almost more than everything else in my life going on right now because it's just like so fun, you know, figuring out how to win, teammates, you know, the whole thing.

The whole thing about sports is just so cool.

Yeah,

it is.

But I'm excited for you.

I'm going to, and I love, I respect that you keep everything pretty private, you know.

It's interesting because it'll be interesting to see what you do with kids, with your kids at some point.

Yeah.

And, and see how that evolves too.

Yeah.

Because I wasn't going to for a long time.

And then

my, you know, my kids got older and then they were on social.

And I also

really did want

people to,

I don't know about want, but I was okay with people seeing the other side.

I had to be so professional and tight laced and all those things on TV every day and network TV.

And it's like.

People think that you have this perfect life and this perfect job and perfect everything.

And then they see me and I have nice clothes and somebody else did my makeup and I get to talk to Stephan Curry or Aaron Rodgers or whoever it is.

And it is, it's super cool.

And I go home and there's still things.

And my kid got a bad grade and my dad, my dog shit on the living room rug.

Like there's real life things.

My father, I've shared his struggle with cancer, two cancers over the last 14 years.

Wow.

And so I do believe there's a, there's, I don't know the line and it's very personal.

But when you allow people to take a, just a little peek inside.

If you're normal and if to allow them to humanize you and see, so I'm not the perfect portrayal at all like that you might think from my job, what it was,

social media does what?

It crushes young girls and boys with what you think is reality, but despite all the filters and like they think it's real with the filters and with all the perfection.

And it's like, I wanted people to see that I'm struggling too.

And my kids aren't perfect either.

I feel like you're more relatable that way.

And then there was a part of me that wanted, like, this is who I really am.

Like, I was always genuine and myself on TV, good or bad.

I always was pretty much myself.

But, like,

that's what matters is those three kids.

Wow.

And so you can come at me with all these other things, but you see my children, you see.

Yeah.

So I always

sometimes wonder, should I have kept it more private?

Maybe.

But I also,

I also,

I don't know, maybe it's caring too much.

Yeah.

I've gotten better about caring less about what people think.

But to see that I'm a human being too.

That's great advice.

Thank you.

Yeah, there's definitely that balance.

I don't know what it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't want to share too much because then it's weird that you got stalkers.

But if you could share a little tidbit here and there.

Yeah, but what does your wife look like?

Your fiancé?

She's Latina.

So you're going to have pretty babies.

You've got to let us see.

She's mixed too, actually.

Yeah, we're going to have some interesting babies.

So just, we've got to see at some point.

They're going to be like gorgeous, tall,

curly hair.

That'd be cool.

Oh, that's happening.

Yeah.

100%.

I'm going to make you post your kids.

Send a picture to me.

I love it.

Yeah.

I love, I remember on Talker, you said you knew you wanted to have kids at a young age.

You even put working at ESPN to the side because you wanted to have three kids first.

I did.

So you really love the family unit.

I got that job offer from ESPN in 04 when I was about to have my second kid.

And I just knew I wasn't ready to

Stuart Scott.

I don't know if you remember Stuart.

I do.

Legend.

The best.

He was my dear friend.

It's been 10 10 years now since he passed away, which I can't believe.

He told me once, he's like, listen, you better be ready when you come here.

You better be ready because you're going to get eaten alive, especially as a woman.

It's different.

This is an 04, 0304, very different time.

And so I knew that I couldn't

be the best mom possible while working full-time

that job.

Sports Center, national TV every day, hour, two a day.

It's a lot of pressure.

I knew I couldn't be that person, that really good anchor and mom.

So I waited.

I turned it down, which was crazy.

My whole childhood and teen years was ESPN.

That was the goal.

And then I got it.

And I said, no.

Who turns down ESPN to

no one?

And that's what my agent said to me.

She's like, you have just blackballed yourself.

ESPN does not need you.

You need ESPN.

Wow.

And I was scared, but I knew I couldn't do it because of how my parents had made beautiful decisions through the years, you know, family first.

And so I took a chance, signed another contract, had a third kid, and then I was done.

Amazing.

And then three years later, they called back and

it was a better deal.

Wow.

It's a better offer, more money.

So it all worked out.

I'm like, huh.

But even if it hadn't, I always would have been sad.

But honestly, my faith is really strong.

And it wasn't as much then.

It was there.

But I just, I don't question much.

Really?

Yeah.

That's interesting.

I don't.

It's been really healthy.

Your faith is that strong.

Yeah.

Wow.

And I am the opposite of perfect.

And I, like, I have a sign in my opposite says, I love Jesus, but I cuss a little.

You know, and I think that that's me.

And I try to work on it.

But

the more I've let go of control and been grounded and prayed and felt close to God.

the more crazy, amazing things happen.

Wow.

Like crazy.

I could see that, though.

It's a form of manifestation, right?

It is, but it's bigger.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And everybody has their own beliefs.

For me, it is a spiritual thing

and beyond.

So

I don't know.

I'm just overwhelmed that it took me so long to let go of control.

Like, obviously, we have make decisions every day that you control your behavior, et cetera.

But we try to force things sometimes.

It's like, okay.

Yeah.

Well, I think you were used to control growing up in a military household.

Like you said, your father was checking your room every week.

You were probably used to it.

Yeah, but it wasn't, but it was, it was fun.

It wasn't like

tough,

mean

at all, at all.

It was respect your things.

We bought you,

you know, you have a nice bed and a nice comfort.

Make your bed.

Pick your clothes out.

We don't have that much money.

It was about teaching respect for your things

and what my parents had sacrificed to give us without rubbing it in our faces.

That's all.

But it was otherwise.

Like, I mean, they're at every sporting event and dinners were fun.

And I literally had the best childhood with the best parents.

I love that.

That's one memory I do have.

My dad was never at my games.

So when I have kids, I'm going to be there, you know, at the sporting events.

How,

I can't imagine that.

I know, because every other kid's parents were both there.

And like, sometimes my mom would be there, but most of the times, not even her near the end of my soccer career.

So.

Yeah, that definitely stuck with me, I think.

How could it not?

Yeah.

A little trauma.

But you got to work through it.

You can't live in the past.

But I say this to my daughter about relationships.

And my, again, they're 18, 20, and 22.

So, you know, all three in college and with relationships with boys and stuff like that.

I'm like, listen,

here's what I would advise.

Here's my experience.

And you do what you want, but here's my experience.

And with a couple of things, I'm like, I'm sharing with you some things that I wish I had done differently.

Do what you will with them, but please don't let this pain go to waste.

Like, I'm hopeful that she does everything in life better than the way I did it.

So then she doesn't have to experience as much pain, but we all have to to get through it.

Like what you experienced with your dad,

I cannot imagine.

It's definitely, it's life-changing, life-altering.

He could have gone in many different directions because of that.

But then I look at perspective, like he got it way worse.

Like his dad was beating him up.

So it's like, you got to get better, like you said, with each generation generational

it's real yeah yeah um i don't know i just

i uh

i think that

we hit the big picture that we've got to focus on the family again absolutely we have to back in the good old days of the cosby show and stuff like that like it was just an innocent time and divorce was kind of weird back then and now it's not now it's a coin flip yes i hope that my kids take some of my mistakes and just this is not what every parent wants.

Yep.

You want your kid to be better than you.

So let's learn from these mistakes.

And yours is a tough one, but like you're going to be a great dad

because you haven't run away from that trauma, right?

You can't.

I used to, but now I face it.

Was it therapy?

Therapy helped.

I did a little psychedelics.

A lot of just talking with the right people.

Getting dogs helped a lot with my anxiety.

And just time, time to reflect,

you know?

Yeah.

Well, you've done something right.

yeah you've got like especially for your age you've got this like piece about you it's crazy and i've seen it from a distance but not in person and it's like you've just you're like an old soul oh it means a lot is that is that a fair statement i get i get that a lot yeah old soul i could see that i'm very spiritual so i believe in in all that stuff yeah yeah well sage it's been beautiful i love the angle we took on this episode oh my gosh sorry went all over the place we're in dc we didn't even talk politics but yeah no politics like the first of all i didn't even know you were conservative for a while.

I actually didn't vote, but yeah, I would label myself conservative.

You what?

I did not vote.

Oh my God.

Yeah, I was too lazy because in Nevada, you need to mail it to a specific address, and I'm that lazy.

If you were my child, I would punch you.

You made all your, oh, wait, one of yours isn't old enough, right?

So you made two.

All three

vote.

Oh, wait, 18, right?

Yeah.

I thought it was 21.

Okay.

Are you?

That's how

you're un-American.

You know what people did to give you that right.

I know.

There's some divide within my family about who to vote for?

My fiancé is very liberal.

Great.

Congratulations.

Let her vote.

Did she vote?

No.

We kind of just had a stalemate where like we might.

We're going to cancel each other out.

Yeah.

That's total laziness.

You slacker.

Here's what I say to people too.

Like, fine,

but don't you dare bitch about one single thing that this administration or that administration is still not doing.

Fair.

Because you didn't go vote.

No, you're right.

You're totally right.

I shouldn't be complaining about it.

Lecturing you.

I'm so surprised.

I know.

People get shocked when I say that, but yeah, I didn't.

Maybe next election.

You know?

I say yes.

Are you registered?

I was registered.

I got the ballot.

I even filled it out.

I had my boy Sam Brown on there.

He was running for Nevada.

I voted for Trump and then I just didn't mail it.

I was that lazy.

I love how honest you are about it.

You're really nice to do it.

I'm like, what?

Yeah.

My kids are in college.

I'm like, here's how you do absentee ballots

because they're in different states.

We were registered in Connecticut, which, by the way, useless to vote as a Republican there.

I was in a sweet state, so my vote actually mattered.

You keep going on it.

I'm just making it worse.

Okay, so make sure, like for your kids' sake, all that, you know, you got lucky because of how it turned out.

Yeah, it was a landslide.

I'm still shocked.

I was shocked.

I thought a couple of swing states would go her way.

I did too, just because people, it's not even pro-her, it's anti-him.

Being out on the campaign trail, though.

Yeah, you got to witness it.

I have no words for the experience to be able to witness it and to be on the ground and talking to people in Nashville, North Carolina, where they were abandoned by the government and still are.

Yeah, absolutely.

It was such a bless.

It was so cool.

People love this country and actually don't care who's present.

Just do the right thing.

I love it.

Yeah.

So anyway.

Yeah, it's been a blast.

Where can people find your show and keep up with you?

I need some advice because I'm still trying to make it grow.

You're doing well.

I'm learning a lot when you work just in corporate TV forever and then it's like, wait, I have to do what?

Ad reads.

What's an ad read?

YouTube at Sage Steel and then Sage Steel Show, I guess, podcast show.

So I need the lingo.

So it's on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast.

Right.

But it's just conversations with a whole bunch of different people.

So are you in South Florida anytime soon?

Yeah, I'll be in Miami.

Really?

Yeah.

For a while.

For F1.

Heck yeah, you are.

Yeah, May.

Yeah, have you been to that one before?

Not Miami.

I've been to Vegas.

Yeah.

Those are the two that I've been to.

I've heard great things.

Oh, it's cool.

Be ready.

Yeah, I'm pumped.

I'm going to have an event.

I'm going to film out there.

It'll be a fun time.

Yeah.

Awesome.

I'd love to say hi.

Awesome.

Thanks for coming on.

Thank you for your patience to get me on here.

For sure.

We'll link everything below.

Check her out, guys.

See you time.

Awesome.

So good.