How a Stroke Changed My Life and Faith Forever | Travis Hearn DSH #1110

I texted my wife Natalie and I go, Babe, I'm dropping grapes.

It's kind of weird.

Well, she called me and she's like, Travis, please go back out to your car.

And I thought I said I'm dropping grapes, but it said something more like,

I'm dropping drapes or something like that.

She wants to call 911.

She gets 911 on the call and she goes, I think my husband's having a stroke.

I'm being wheeled out.

I looked at Natalie and I said, Okay, I'm just getting some tests.

I'll be right back.

And dude, I get in the ambulance.

I don't remember anything.

how's your day been man i it's been good i just got back from miami yeah how was that um it was great i shot a podcast with a pastor out there named rich wilkerson jr rich wilkerson jr i haven't heard of him he's he's he's big yeah he's a he's a nationally known i would say globally okay yeah good dude nice big following you know a lot of people so you're collaborative with other pastors of different churches yeah the the pastor world's easier for me because like i they're friends like i know those guys and stuff so leveraging that is a little bit easier than leveraging outside of the church world you know but um but cody's been cody's been awesome john um a lot yeah you know he's been

there's so many people that go to our church that we can we can tap into yeah john's a great dude yeah yeah i didn't know that about that because certain uh churches are kind of they keep to themselves right

you know what

some do.

I think some do.

There's a pretty good network, though,

across the nation of

pastors that are connected.

It's like you're trying to do this thing and you find like minds.

Looks like anything, you know, but like like-mindedness.

And then church is a little bit like,

it's so broad, like church, broad, right?

So then like with us, it's like certain churches

the size, right?

So

who can I rub shoulders with that has a church around my size?

Who's going through the same problems, issues, challenges, you know, and for me, who's got bigger vision even than I have and things like that.

So, yeah, but, and, and ours is so unique because it, ours started as a Bible study for the Arizona Cardinals football team.

Like, really?

Didn't start out.

Yeah, it didn't start out to be a church.

It started out to be a Bible study for pro football players that eventually opened to the public and that's the church.

So

that is crazy.

So how many members is is it i know it's about 10 000 every holy crap yeah that's insane dude i did not know churches got to that size i know i just had irwin mcmanus on for the second time

i've never met him really he is i love that guy and i oh if i could facilitate that i'd love to yeah that'd be cool he's been one of my favorite guests he's the man i just spoke at his church you did it was my first time in a church in uh man 15 years no way yeah what did you speak on what was about we spoke on just life it was right before the election so we were talking about the divide that politics has been causing.

And it was in LA.

So as someone who's a conservative to speak in that crowd, I was a little uncomfortable, but he made me feel right at home.

That's awesome.

And people were coming up to me after saying it was like one of the best talks.

That is awesome.

Yeah.

So I love how like inclusive he is.

Yeah.

He's a great dude.

He's got big vision.

He's got great teachings.

He's wit wise.

And

actually, Cody knows him too.

Yeah, he speaks at a lot of the same events that you do.

And you guys both share those near-death experience stories as well.

Yeah.

I know you had a major one in 22, right?

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

That rocked your world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Came out of nowhere.

Unexpected completely?

Yeah.

Unexpected completely.

Wow.

No signs.

Nope.

Holy crap.

Yeah, totally blindsided.

So you just woke up in the hospital.

So we, no, so we, we had, so going back to the church, like it starts as a Bible study for the Arizona Cardinals, opens to the public, you know, grows to what it is now.

Well, I like music.

Like, dude, I like music.

And I think church should be fun.

You know, like, church, I, I mean, I think church should be fun.

It should be like a celebration, not a funeral.

It should be like, I believe Jesus is risen, man.

Like, let's have a good time.

God's not dead.

So, we, we, I'm a musician, so I'm a worship leader.

I sing, I play guitar, play keyboard, play drums.

So, I, I, I really was meticulous and like particular about building our worship team, our music team.

Well, um, you know, we've got, we've got incredible, incredible

band and singers.

They're so good.

So we decided, let's start writing songs.

Like we've never done this.

Like let's try to write songs.

We wrote our first song.

We recorded it, produced it, and then released it to the world and on all music platforms.

It was our first one.

And that song released November 11th of 2022.

And that song is called He is the Miracle.

The songs about.

God, Jesus is the miracle, right?

So then on Sunday, I preached a sermon.

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Called He is the Miracle.

We kind of theme the whole weekend.

And I preach a sermon.

I'm like, I believe God still does modern-day miracle.

I believe it.

I believe God does modern-day miracles.

Like He can heal your body, like He can restore your marriage, He can help your mental health.

And, you know, so that was kind of the idea of the sermon.

Well, the next day, dude, I needed the very miracle that I just preached about and that we just sang about.

And so it came out of nowhere.

Like, this is how nowhere it came out of.

The Thursday before,

I had a life insurance policy.

I was updating it and increasing the limits.

And I got my health report back, and it was an A-plus health report.

Wow.

Like, I'm on no medication.

I wasn't on any medication.

And so released the song, preached a sermon.

Then on Monday,

I needed that miracle, man.

And

I was at my office with my wife and my youngest daughter.

She was 13 at the time.

I had a handful of grapes and I'm like, you know, popping grape.

And then I dropped a grape.

I'm like, that's weird.

Then I dropped another grape.

I'm like, that's weird.

Like, what is going on?

Like, my hand just felt, it just felt slushy.

It didn't hurt.

It just felt slushy.

Nothing else, nothing else hurt or anything.

And so I took Jazzy, my daughter, to Target.

We were going to get some shopping.

She wanted to go shopping.

And I texted my wife, Natalie, and I go, babe, I'm dropping grapes.

It's kind of weird.

Well, she called me and she's like, Travis, please go back out to your car.

I'm going to come get you.

And I'm like, what?

Like, she's like, please, please, please tell me you're going to, I'm like, babe, what?

She's like, look back at your text and read it to me.

So I grab my phone.

I look back.

And I thought I said I'm dropping grapes, but it said something more like

I'm dropping drapes or something like that.

Yeah, I know.

And I'm like, and I'm, and I'm like, everybody does that.

Like, got it, like, yeah, I typo, got it confused or whatever.

So she comes and picks me up.

I go out to the car.

We go home.

She wants to call 911.

And I'm like, babe, I'm not calling 911.

Like, what if it's like 911 emergency?

Yeah, I'm dropping some grapes.

You know, I'm thinking like, but she knew, man, you know, you know, like the women's intuition, but I believe even deeper, it's just the power of God and the Holy Spirit speaking to her.

She gets 911 on the on the call and she goes, I think my husband's having a stroke.

And like, Sean, I never even thought that.

I never thought that.

And I'm like, there's no way I'm having a stroke, man.

There's no, says, if you think he's having a stroke, he needs to lay on his back.

So I'm on my back in my living room.

Within three minutes, I think paramedics were there and they're doing all these tests and they even do a stroke test.

I passed it.

I'm having a stroke, a massive brain bleed, and I passed the stroke test.

So then my wife starts asking the paramedics, like, will you please tell him to go, you know, to ER?

And so I'm laying on my back.

I looked up at this one paramedic and I go, what do you think I should do?

I kid you not.

He says, Pastor, as a member of your congregation, I think you should go.

And I mean, I had no idea this dude, I had never seen him in my life.

He didn't know he was going to his pastor's house until he got in the middle of my living room and saw me.

And so that's why I went.

Like, if it wasn't for that man, I would not have went to APR because I just thought I'm good, you know?

So I get, I get taken to hospital by ambulance.

Well, let me rewind.

I'm being stretchered out.

I put myself on the stretcher.

That's how like okay I felt.

I mean, I got up, stood up, got on the stretcher.

I'm being wheeled out.

I looked at Natalie and I said, and Jazzy and I go, it's okay.

Daddy will be okay.

I'm just getting some tests.

I'll be right back.

Don't worry about me.

And dude, I get in the ambulance.

I don't remember anything.

Whoa.

Boom.

Yeah, boom.

So I get taken to ambulance, by ambulance to the hospital.

They do a scan.

They call Natalie.

It's not good.

Your husband's suffering from a massive brain bleed.

We have to helicopter him to a level one trauma center.

And so I get, you know, helicopter to a level one trauma center.

Dude, I'm gone.

I lost my speech, my cognition, my memory, my motor skills.

I'm gone.

And the crazy thing is, is like when

this happened, you know, it happened so fast.

You asked, it came out of nowhere.

It came out of nowhere.

I mean, nowhere.

Like, I've always almost felt invincible, really, to some degree.

Like, I feel like I don't get sick, like I don't break body parts, bones.

Like, I'm, I'm like, all of a sudden, this came out and over.

So, um, it was bad.

I mean, it was bad.

That when I was in, it was a couple days into it when I couldn't, you know, when I mean I lost my speech, I mean

like that.

And

when I was in that state of being,

the, the, the doctor told my wife that she should be prepared and and warned that this particular stroke, the effects of this particular stroke are irreversible.

Whoa.

Yeah.

So he's telling Natalie,

this is your new husband.

He's a vegetable.

And

actually, you know what?

The crazy thing about this is that,

I mean, it's all crazy.

There's not a crazy thing.

It's all crazy.

The whole thing's crazy.

But when the doctor said that

to my wife, she's a woman of God.

Like, like, we're kind of freaks, dude.

Like, we're jesus fanatics women women of god men of god and she was like i'm not gonna i'm not gonna i'm not gonna accept that like she didn't say that but she's thinking like i'm not gonna accept that and she goes to the bible and like i need a new i need a verse i need something to hold on to bro she goes to this verse in acts chapter 3 verse 16 and the verse says

By faith, in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see now is completely healed.

That's what it says.

Whoa.

Yeah.

And she just pulled a random verse.

Random verse, right?

So she, she clings to that verse.

She actually posted it on her Instagram story

and we saved that.

So we started praying, believing.

I mean, everybody all over the world that knew me, they're praying churches and pastors and friends and family and like Acts 3.16 and that God would heal this man.

And so then on Wednesday, I got admitted on Monday.

On Wednesday, so what they do is stroke patients.

So mine was in the basal ganglia area.

So I've learned so much about strokes because they're not all the same, right?

They can be massive.

They can be minor.

Depending on where it is, they can be a blood clot.

They can be a brain bleed.

Mine was a brain bleed, a massive brain bleed.

So

the basal ganglia area is like the brain stem area.

So like somebody could bleed here or here or whatever, and it might affect something.

But because of where I bled, everything goes through the brain stem.

So it affected everything.

It affected like, you know,

I'm crazy.

I tell you, I'm crazy.

I'm a Jesus-freak, crazy man.

But

I think the world is spiritual before it's physical.

And I think that if you and I could put on like spiritual goggles and look into the spirit realm, we would see like warfare.

We would see demons and angels warring over our lives, like crazy kind of stuff, right?

Really?

And so I just think, like,

when

this happened, I feel strongly this

this was an attack on my life, on my calling, on my purpose, on what I do.

It affected my speech.

I'm a pastor.

I'm a preacher.

I'm a teacher.

Like it affected my speech.

It affected my memory, my cognition.

My whole right side was completely numb.

I mean, it's still, it's been two years.

Today

marks the two-year anniversary.

Wow.

Today.

So today is the two-year anniversary.

I'm still numb.

I'm not as numb, but I mean, I was so numb, you could have stabbed me with the knife.

I wouldn't have felt it.

I got burned a few times once I got out of the hospital, and I didn't know it until a few days later that I was burned.

Like,

that's how crazy this was.

So I think it was targeted.

It was targeted.

Like, I release a song, he is the miracle.

I preach a sermon, he is the miracle.

Then I need him to be the miracle.

right

and and so we we we're praying that with stroke patients they do uh stroke tests.

So every hour on the hour, they come in and

they do the same thing.

They give you like, hey, touch your nose.

So I'm like this, you know, lift up your leg.

I can't lift my leg.

What's your name?

Don't know.

What's the date?

I don't know.

What's your date of birth?

Don't know.

What's your kids' names?

Don't know.

Wife's name.

Don't know.

Well, on Wednesday,

the doctor said,

What are your children's names?

This is crazy, dude.

This is crazy.

This is one of the most crazy things about that week to me.

He says, what's your children's names?

I have three kids, Kylie, Josiah, and Jasline.

And I said, 40.

And I knew, I knew that like, you ever been drunk, Sean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So like, you ever been passed out drunk?

Yeah.

Okay.

Great.

So it's, I can only explain it like that because like I'm a pastor, but like I didn't, I didn't grow up in church.

Like I partied my way through school.

I've done drugs and lots of them and smoked out and then dropped i got i got i became a christian after getting a dui getting arrested getting put in jail and that night i went from jail to jesus like what that night that night that's what redirected my life like crazy story so think about for a minute like

these tests and he goes what's your kids names and i go 40.

it's like you're almost passed out drunk like you're you you're kind of like you're way back there somewhere yeah

and i knew this was bad

And I had tears in my eyes.

I looked up to my wife who was standing right by my bedside.

And I said, count it all joy.

And the doctor goes, what did he say?

Now remember, I can't talk.

And I say, as plain as day, count it all joy.

And Natalie said, he's quoting a Bible verse.

from the book of James.

Whew!

I've been sharing this story, not getting emotional.

but because today's the day, it's just extra

emotional.

She said he's quoting a Bible verse from the book of James that says,

count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

Let patience, perseverance, have its perfect work in you that you may be mature and complete.

Well, this is the crazy thing about that story.

To me, I can't tell you my children's names, but I can quote a Bible verse in context of the situation as plain as day.

Wow.

And it makes me think about scripture because the Bible says about the Bible that the word of God is living and active.

It says that it's sharper than any two-edged sword.

It says that it will never return void.

And

man, Friday, dude, Friday, I got released from the hospital.

Five days later, I got released from the hospital.

And God

did the miracle.

He is the miracle.

And so,

you know,

it's been a journey.

It's been two years.

That two years has been incredible.

It's been a lot of growth, a lot of learning, a lot of therapy.

I did six different therapies for,

gosh, six months every day, you know, physical therapy, cognition therapy, hyperbarics therapy, speech therapy.

My doctor, speech therapist, she goes, hey, I heard you're a,

I know you're an influential pastor, you know, and she said, I, I watched your clips on Instagram of you preaching and stuff.

And she goes, I thought it would be cool.

Why don't you, as part of your speech therapy, preach to me?

And I was like, no way.

Like, come on, let's go.

I'm like, you know, kind of slurry, like a drunk.

Like, that's where I was at this point in my life.

and um and man I was preaching to her like I was preaching to 10,000 people man me and her and I got my little you know ipad and i'm just i'm giving her everything i got you know incredible and it's part of my it's part of my speech therapy but um yeah man those first six months were were wild because i was i was rescued i didn't die um

and and my body was healing and and i had i god did his part but i also i also played a role in it you know wow working getting after it i mean they'd show me flashcards, even several months after this brain bleed.

They're simple, like five-year-olds can do them.

And there'd be 50 flashcards.

And I remember like looking at one and I'm like, I know what, I know what this is.

Like, dude, I know this is going to sound stupid.

It's a volcano, but I'm like, I couldn't place the word.

And I said, I'm thinking lava.

I'm thinking like smoke, but I don't.

And she's like, you're really close, you know, it's a volcano.

And the other one, which was actually really funny now, it wasn't funny then, but we did laugh she showed me a seahorse and i could not freaking place the word i'm like what is that and i said i know this is wrong i said but all i can think of is water horse and we both started cracking out laughing and she's like you're so close she's like actually that's a better name for it a water horse you know but it was it was dire man and and and god rescued me man he he is he is the miracle it's like he proved to me everything i've been preaching and teaching and trying to give to the world because the world needs hope.

What a story, man.

Yeah, the doctors probably call that a medical miracle, but your wife had conviction the whole way through, it sounds like.

Yeah, absolutely.

They did call it a medical miracle.

In fact, four weeks after we went for a follow-up and

this doctor,

he looked at the scans and,

you know, he wasn't a person of faith or anything, but he just goes, you're one lucky dude.

He's like, I see these all day long.

You should be dead or a vegetable.

Whoa.

That's what he said.

That is crazy.

Yep.

Crazy.

Yeah, because I think when they give these diagnosis of you'll never recover again, people start shutting down.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

So you chose the opposite route.

You fought it.

Yeah.

That's so crazy, man.

Crazy.

Incredible.

Did you regain all your memories?

Yeah.

I would say I'm, I would say I'm

almost all the way back to normal in every area of my life, better than normal in many areas of my life.

I do still have numbness in my whole right side.

So it's not numb like stab me, I can't feel it numb.

It's numb like my foot's asleep numb and it never unsleeps.

It never wakes up.

That's annoying.

That's annoying, dude.

Because like right now, it's like tingles, it's tingles.

It's been challenging.

I

relearn to type.

Wow.

You know, again,

I'm a preacher.

I write sermons every week.

I write songs like I need to type.

And,

you know, what I've learned, man, and maybe this is something people can take away for their own lives, is that, you know, sometimes the very thing you're created to do,

there's challenges that pop up.

And it doesn't mean you're still not created to do it.

It might mean you need to pivot on how you do it.

And for me, it's, I'm a pastor.

I love people.

I preach God's word.

I want to give people hope.

And so, like, my calling hasn't changed, but the way.

I do it has.

So now, like, even in my studio, my sermon writing studio, you know, I have this headset where I can type, but I could go, hey, Philippians 4.13 says, you know, I could type that.

Philippians 4.13 says, and then I could go, I could do all things through Christ who gives me strength.

I could say it and it types it in.

So technology is pretty cool today.

I can literally go back and forth and there's no, there's no like, you know, delay.

And so I'm still working.

I'm still,

you know, I changed my nutrition.

My entire physique changed.

Is that what caused the stroke?

Do you think poor health physically?

I asked the question because obviously I don't want it to happen again.

So they said

this particular stroke, first of all, it's a fluke.

Second of all, you have no other areas in your brain that are compromised.

My six-month scan, my six-month post-stroke scan, I was healed.

It was completely, he said you could see like a scar.

You could see where it happened, but it was healed.

They said it could have been an old high school injury.

Whoa.

It could have been a sports injury, football, basketball, could have been a car wreck.

They said, you know, when you have a blood vessel that's compromised, I mean, you never know.

It may never blow.

And

mine blew.

And I was like, is it nutrition?

Nope.

You know, stress?

Nope.

You know, it could have just been an old injury.

Who knows?

Wow.

I believe.

It was targeted from the enemy.

I believe that I do God's work and I do good work and I try to bring hope to the world.

And I think the enemy wanted to shut that down.

And I think the timing of it is living proof of that with, you know, the He is the miracle release and the He is a miracle sermon.

I think he was trying to shut me up.

So now I'm speaking louder.

Yeah, I love that, man.

Yeah.

I mean, there was a lot of coincidences leading up to it, too.

Yeah.

It's just a weird timing.

Yes.

When you say enemy, who exactly?

I say the devil.

The devil is still alive, huh?

The spirit, the darkness in this this world, evil, wickedness, devil, demons.

Yeah, I believe, I believe that.

I believe that is very much still

happening.

Damn.

I do believe in some demonic entities for sure.

Yeah.

You know, yeah.

Some evil out there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I believe, I believe, you know, I believe, I believe in God's word.

I believe the Bible, and the Bible is very clear about that.

So

I believe in that.

I mean, I, I've, I've, I've, I've I've been in prayer circles where I've seen stuff, like crazy spiritual stuff, you know, people set free from demon possession.

I've seen all that, man.

And

my thing is, God is greater.

Like the spirit world is like, it's, God is greater, man.

God is, Jesus is the way.

He is the truth.

He is the life.

He is.

He gets the final say.

He gets the final word.

He gets the victory.

And for me, he gets the praise.

And the praise is whether I'm on a high, low, low or a plateau right because because it's easy to praise god on the mountaintop man life's good like praise god but what about when you're in the valley isn't god still good for me god is still good you know but but those are the those are the count it all joy moments right count it all joy when you go through various trials that's tough to do man like how do i find joy in this trial how do i find joy in this pain?

How do I find joy in this depression?

How do I find joy in this divorce?

My guy left me.

My girl left me.

They cheated on me.

How do I find, I lost my job.

I got fired.

I got sick.

I got illness.

I got stage four cancer.

How do I find joy in that?

And

the way I believe we find joy in that is that, you know, like it says in Nehemiah, the book of Nehemiah, the joy of the Lord is my strength.

I think that in Philippians chapter four, there's this scripture and it says that

it says take all your

prayer requests to God, all everything it says don't worry about anything Don't be anxious about anything instead take your request to God, right?

And then it says who gives you peace that surpasses all understanding that will guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus So I believe that and I believe that you can be going through hell but surrounded by the peace of heaven and that's the power of God's word man.

That's the power of hope, you know if we don't have hope hope is like the greatest drug in the world Like if you don't have hope, you don't have anything If you're hopeless, you have nothing.

Wow.

I just need a drop of hope, man, to keep me going.

And somebody today, listening, they need a drop of hope.

And God is the hope.

I found hope, you know?

Like for me, I told you I didn't grow up in church, dude.

I think I drank my first beer at five years old.

I think that early.

First joint, maybe at 11 years old.

Holy crap.

Yeah, man.

Like, I didn't grow up in church.

I freaking got arrested several times.

I, you know, I've been in the back of police cars.

Like, I've been, you know, put in jail.

And like, so, like, what I'm saying is, like, I know there's a lot of listeners that, like, this dude's crazy.

Like, smoke another one, Pastor.

Like, I'm just saying, like, I know it's crazy because I used to think it was crazy.

And then I, then I found out it's not crazy.

It's real.

It's, it's, it, he's the real deal, man.

Like, think about this.

How about this?

Who's the most, who's, in your, in your opinion,

who's the most famous name?

Who's the most famous human on earth in 2024?

It's got to be Trump.

Okay, let's say it's Donald Trump for sure.

I mean, if it's not, he's in the top five, right?

So

Jesus Christ,

the name Jesus Christ is far more famous than Donald Trump's name in 2024.

It's so famous that it went around the entire world that people gathered together on

every Sunday around the world and billions of people worship this name.

The man had a full-time ministry that lasted three years.

Jesus died at 33, right?

33.

But from 30 to 33, that was his actual ministry.

That's where he did his miracles.

That's when he was crucified, resurrected.

It's three years.

So

why?

Because it's just a cool myth.

And that's what I used to, I'd be like, dude, this is crazy.

Because, I mean, there is something to this.

Like, this is wild, man.

Like, God, are you real?

God, God, are you not real?

And,

and, and I've seen God prove to me time and time and time and time again the realness of

himself, the power of God.

And I think if we try, like, think about this, like, we try everything.

We're humans.

We're like, we're going to try drugs.

We're human.

Try some alcohol.

We're going to try some women.

We're going to try some men.

We're going to try.

If I could just chase money, chase women, chase men, chase fun, chase material possessions.

All of it leaves you still chasing

like it's a dead end and so my thought is for anybody that's listening like i mean try it like chase jesus just try it see what happens what do you got to lose at this point give it a shot you know and um and that's what i did that's what i did i gave him a shot you know wow my life never been the same ever since what a story yeah do you believe numbers have meaning because um jesus died at 33 you mentioned you made the song on 11 11 22.

was that strategic No, it wasn't.

It wasn't?

No.

No, it wasn't strategic.

I mean, the day of the release was strategic, but not according to numbers.

Okay.

But yeah, that's pretty cool.

Actually, I don't think I've ever even thought about that until you just said that.

Yeah, well, I know there's a divide with certain religion and numerology and astrology.

That's why I asked that.

Yeah.

Nope.

Nope.

Didn't even think about it.

That's pretty cool, though.

Interesting.

11-11.

Yeah, that's...

Angel numbers, right?

That's pretty like that.

I don't know.

Being honest, I have no idea.

Yeah, 11-11, a lot of people make wishes at that time of life okay i don't i don't know any about wishes i just know about praying to

to jesus good old prayer that's all i know hard to be prayer man yeah exactly i used to pray a lot growing up yeah what do you mean used to uh i went through a rebellion phase man okay yeah that's real i might have to get back into it that's real i got it no i definitely used to and uh Something I got away from, I think a lot of kids kind of, I don't know, church growing up could be a weird setting sometimes.

Yeah, I think so.

I think, you know,

like you said, sometimes not every child's the same, but like you grow up, maybe certain kids too are smothered by it or they feel like, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

And then they grow up and then they get their freedom and they're out of the house.

And

so I could see that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I am big on purpose and spirituality.

Amen.

Yeah.

I think it's really important.

A lot of people don't have those guiding principles these days.

Yeah.

Get kind of lost in the sauce.

You're right.

And I'm not a fan of the hookup culture either.

Yeah.

I'm big on family.

Yeah.

Amen.

Family's the way God created it.

Absolutely.

That family is the way the Bible

defines it.

So me too.

I freaking love being a husband.

We're coming up on 27 years.

Congrats.

That's how old I am.

Wow.

Really?

Yeah.

You're a youngin', dude.

See, I told you there's something with numbers.

We're meant to meet.

Yeah,

you're a baby.

And then my oldest daughter is 23, and my son's 21, and my youngest is now 15.

But yeah, man, I think, you know, we got to get you back in, man.

We got to get you.

A lot of both back in, yeah.

I'd love to go to one of your, it's every Sunday?

Yeah, yeah, every Sunday.

Next time I'm in town, I'll stop by.

Or even watch it online.

Just go to the chat.

Oh, it's online.

Impactchurch.com.

Yeah.

Churches have adapted.

Yeah, I know.

Holy crap.

We're probably the slower ones.

We're, you know, trying to, trying to pivot and move with the times, but evolve.

But yeah, yeah, YouTube, man, you can listen to sermons.

And yeah, you should do that for sure.

I mean, I definitely want to touch on the growth because this is a business show and you said it started off with just one team and now it's 10,000 people.

How long did that take?

14 years.

Okay.

Yeah.

And was it steady growth over time?

Was there specific tactics you used to grow?

Yes.

I love that you said, too, this is a business show because the thing I think a lot of people maybe don't think about is like the church is still a business, right?

I mean, it's a ministry.

You're there to help people, but there's a lot of businesses that aren't churches that are there to help people, right?

So think about with the church.

You have employees, you have HR, you have hiring.

Unfortunately, you even have firing.

You know, you have time off.

You have, you know, vacations.

You have teams.

You have culture.

You have training.

You have sessions.

You have conferences.

You have things where you're developing culture.

You have money coming in.

You have money going out.

You got budgets.

You got departmental budgets.

You got marketing.

You got advertisements.

You got branding.

All of it.

It's literally the same.

So for us, if we look at it from a business, you know, perspective, we started as a Bible study for the Arizona Cardinals, open to the public.

You know,

you're growing and now you have a church.

So how do you grow this?

How do you grow numerically?

How do you grow spiritually?

How do you grow financially, right?

Relationally, all the Elise.

How do you grow?

And so like, those are all business, like, those are good business tactics.

So branding, our name is Impact Church.

Why?

Well, I wanted a one-word purpose statement.

That's why.

I wanted one word that said all of it.

What is all of it?

Well, that I'm impacted by God, but that I make an impact for God, that I love my neighbor as myself, that I help people, that I love people, serve people, sacrifice for people.

Impact.

That said it all.

So our pro-athlete Bible study, me and Andre Wadsworth, who played in the NFL,

he and I had a Bible study called Impact Pro-Athletes.

So we had sons, Phoenix Suns, we had Arizona Cardinals, you know, Diamondbacks.

We had pro-athletes in Paradise Valley come together, did this Bible study.

And I was like, dude, Impact Church, that's it.

Like, that's the name.

That's perfect.

Now, coming on to the business idea, I wanted a symbol, like a logo, something that said impact.

Well, what is that?

Well, I was like, God,

I want a symbol.

Now, Now, the cross is obvious.

The cross is a symbol of our faith.

That's for sure.

That's what Jesus did for us.

But I came up with the idea of the star because,

so anywhere you see Impact Church, you see a star, right?

Well, why the star?

Because in Philippians 2, 15, there's a verse that says that you shine like stars in a dark universe.

That's what we should do.

Shine.

Like, the world's dark, man.

Like, how do you not?

How do you not be dark?

Man, I'm going to love like

nobody's love.

I'm going to give like nobody's.

I'm going to be generous because the world's selfish.

Like stand out, you know, shine like stars.

So, we're talking about business, right?

We're talking about like building the church, but building a business.

And so, you've got these ideas.

You've got the marketing, you've got the branding, then you've got the

imagery, and then you've got the marketing.

And then you start building everything around that.

Like, man, this is what we're doing.

We're making lives better.

We're here to help marriages.

We're here to help the addict.

We have hundreds of addicts that have been set free in our church, right?

So, like, all that speaks for itself.

So, like, you might want to, in a business, you might want to run infomercial, you know?

Yeah.

Like, well, our infomercials are lives changed.

We've had the privilege of water baptizing 6,000 people in the last 14 years.

Wow.

That's a lot of people.

But, like, I don't, I can't change a human heart.

I can't.

I literally cannot make somebody with my own words and my own power, you know, change whether they believe in God or not.

That's God.

I'll speak words and I'll speak life and I'll speak hope and all those things and love, but like God does that.

So those people that are being water baptized, it's 6,000 people that go, man, my life changed.

Like something happened to me.

Like God did something in my life.

So now you've got the power of advertisement.

Well, what are we advertising?

We're advertising life change.

We're not advertising to make money.

I'm not selling something.

I'm giving something.

But advertising is still important marketing still important right you know culture is still important uh you know being a giver and not a taker that's a good component to team because a lot of teams uh even you know uh i serve as the phoenix suns chaplain and i have for 23 seasons and i've served in the nfl and i've served in major league baseball well when i go the way chapel works with the phoenix suns is before every game we have chapel like you know most people don't know that, but I didn't know that.

But I know, and like, think about that for a minute.

There, before

60 minutes before tip-off, we have chapel for 15 minutes.

People are like, What is that?

Well, we get together, man.

We have a little prayer, a little devotional.

It's about life.

It's like, man, they have hardships too, and they can't go to church because of their schedule, you know, not during the season.

So, we kind of take it to them.

And, and so, but the NBA, the NFL, MLB, they all have chapel, right?

But the NBA, the NFL, and MLB, it's a business.

Those are businesses.

We think it was like, oh, watching sports, it's a business.

It's there to make money, right?

So a business goes, hey, let's create some space for spirituality, for

just some decompressed time, man.

We're about to play.

Like, let's just take a deep breath.

Let's reset.

Let's re-center, you know, because we're about to go get after it.

So, yeah, so then the church starts growing I mean it went from you know 200 to 400 and 400 to 800 and

you know and but it speaks for itself because God's doing what God does and and so

you know so then you start you know you you start

thinking about like space and buildings and properties and how are we gonna facilitate this and you utilizing the internet utilizing YouTube utilizing Instagram you know and all those things but but the I would say the biggest difference for the business of church versus like just like corporate America business is

it's solely about Jesus.

You know, it's like if you're in sales,

you've got to sell me on something.

So, you know, it's kind of like you're selling Jesus, but it's free and he sells himself.

Like if you give him a shot, he sells himself.

Like, I don't have to convince 6,000 people to get water.

Like, I didn't do that.

Yeah.

Like the supernatural did that.

God did that.

You know, when I watch big full-grown jacked NFL players get in a baptism tank and go under the water and come back up.

By the way, I don't know if you know this, Sean, but that's a baptism, water baptism, it's a symbol of like dying to yourself and rising up brand new.

It's like, it's a symbol of like, man, I get a new start in life.

I'm washed clean, like a new slate.

But, you know, seeing like, like, man, it's fun to watch kids and stuff.

That's beautiful.

It's precious.

But like, when you watch a full-grown man, dude, you're like, dude, only God can do that.

Because men are like tough and stubborn.

And, you know,

so yeah, man, all of that plays into the business and budgeting and departmental budgeting.

And,

you know, like I said before, the money that comes in, the money that goes out, you know,

it's really a pass-through.

in a, in, in a church, because it's just like, okay, came in, it's going right back out.

and and but i i think most people don't think that way like church is it is a business and i and i think for everybody that that you know that is running a business or thinking about starting a business um you can't

you can't market and brand enough

like saturate and that's what we did it was like you couldn't get away from impact church i mean we had it was all over the internet it's billboards you know driving around the valley.

It's bumper stickers on cars, window stickers on cars.

You know, we have a church merch, we call it, like Impact Clothing line, where it's just fun.

It's just fun clothing,

but it all points back eventually to Impact.

So if I'm wearing something that's kind of dope looking and I'm in Florida or something, oh, where'd you get it?

Oh, Impact, like it's branding.

Absolutely.

It's marketing, you know?

And I think that's the reason why your church is successful and one of the biggest in the country.

Yeah.

You thought from a business point of view about it, right?

Yes, yeah, yeah, because there's probably hundreds of churches in just the city, I'd imagine, yeah, probably thousands, thousands because I know, and like, for example, one denomination like Assemblies of God or whatever, there's almost 300 churches in the state, you know, and then there's Baptist and Lutheran and you know, all these denominations, then a whole bunch like ours, it's non-denominational, so it's super competitive space, but you were able to penetrate and scar to the top, so there's something there, there's something there, yeah.

And it's kind of weird because you said it exactly right,

It is competitive, but it, but it should, it's really not because like the other churches, they're like, we're doing the same thing.

We're on the same team.

We're promoting Jesus.

We're trying to help people.

But, but I know what you're saying because it still is.

They have a choice.

People have a choice.

They could go to that church, that church, that.

And there's so many great churches in Scottsdale, Arizona.

So many.

So that speaks to the community and culture you've built then because that's what's separating them from staying versus going somewhere else.

Yeah, I think so.

I'd love to take credit for that.

But I think I'm just just like.

So you got a great team?

Yeah, our team and good God and a great team.

Yep.

Do you want to scale to other cities?

Yes.

We're right at two locations.

We're going to have three.

We bought a building in South Scottsdale, Paid Castle.

So we're in North Scottsdale right now, have a North Phoenix location.

And then we just bought a building in South Scottsdale.

And so, yeah, we're going to scale.

And I mean, dude, until the wheels fall off, I'm going to give it everything I got.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

I mean, you're providing so much good to society.

I love it.

Yeah.

You know, thank you.

Absolutely.

What are you up to next?

And where can people find you, man?

So, man, I got this book coming out.

It's on this, it's, it's the idea of the stroke survival story, this miracle story.

The book is called The Fire is For You.

It's

a journal for the last two years about that

week.

It's now on Amazon.

People can buy it on Amazon.

The fire is for you.

The heart behind the book is, well, not only are you going to read this supernatural, incredible, hard to believe miracle story, but it's going to help you because everybody's got a fire they're going through.

And I think oftentimes we think of fires and we go, like, please get me out of that fire, God, or put the fire out, God, or we curse the fire.

But if we could flip our perspective, and I go, and the book goes, no, the fire is actually for you.

It's not against you.

And when you look at scripture, it talks a lot about fires.

In fact, it talks, i said count it all joy when you fall into various trials trials in the bible it it there's three major metaphors for trials in the bible there's valleys remember david said everybody knows this even if they're not church because it's like rap songs even though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death i shall fear no evil right the valley the valley but david wrote that he said the valley of the shadow of death And I like the word shadow because shadow means it's not the valley of death.

It just feels like death.

Like it's, it's low.

See, there's three things about shadows.

Anywhere, when you think about shadows, shadows are always bigger than reality.

So that's fear, right?

Like, dude, I'm in a valley.

Number two, shadows have never hurt anybody, but they're scary.

They're dark.

Number three, anywhere there's a shadow, there's always a light.

And if you turn and look to the light, the shadow falls directly behind you, but we usually look at the shadow.

If I turn and look to the light, well, Jesus said in John 8, 12, he said, I am the light of the world, and whoever follows me will never walk in darkness.

So the Bible uses valleys.

The Bible uses storms.

That's another metaphor for trial.

I'm going through a storm right now, man.

Life's, you know, the winds of life, the rains of life, the waves of life come crashing in.

And then the Bible uses fire for trials.

But the thing about the Bible, it talks about fire.

and that the fire is for you.

The fire purifies you.

The fire pulls pulls the impurities out of you, right?

It's like gold or silver.

It's like when a silver is refined or gold is refined, the pressure, the heat, the fire.

And what that means is it's making us more mature.

It's making us more complete.

It's making us less about us and more about God and more about others, right?

And so I was really inspired through this because like God...

God allowed me to live another day, two years now, two more years that he's given me.

And

I know people that are watching right now are going through fires.

They're going through freaking hell, a financial fire,

you know, a relationship fire.

My marriage is under fire.

My finances are under fire.

My emotions are under fire.

My health is under fire.

People watching right now, they've been diagnosed with some life-threatening.

I'm under fire.

So this book, The Fire is For You, it's going to help you navigate through this fire, give you the right perspective, the right angle of how to look at it.

And, and that's my heart for that.

So, you know, thank you for asking about that.

It means everything to me because I'm hoping to give, I'd give this book away.

I'd give it away for free to 8 billion people on planet.

If somebody had pay for it, I'd do it because I don't care.

I want people to have hope.

And this book is going to give people hope.

Love it.

Can't wait to listen to it, man.

Will it be on Audible too?

It'll be on Audible too.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Yeah, I'm an audiobook guy.

I'll definitely give it a listen.

And we'll link it below in the description.

Awesome.

Thank you, man.

Yep.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Great story.

Absolutely.

Thank you for having me.