Prison to Podcast: A Real Goodfella's Redemption Story | Gene Borrello DSH #997

Damn, 10 years.

Oh, it could take 10 years.

Genevieve's family, you gotta be on record for 10 years that you'd be considered.

Holy crap.

So every, you know, like I said, the mob is much different.

That's why we're so organized and that's why the FBI hated us so much because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules.

You went with a maid man's wife, you die.

You've put your hands on a member, you're dead.

You, you know, these rules were very strict and they had to go by them and that's how they survived, you know?

All right, guys, Scott Gene Barrello out here.

Thanks for coming out, man.

What's going on, man?

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, we were talking out there.

You said you had the first mafia show ever.

Yeah.

So what happened was

when I got out in

2020, I didn't know what I was going to do.

I was, you know, a mob guy in the street my whole life.

So I didn't know, you know, what could I do?

I had a family friend named Johnny Elite.

Johnny E-Light was a hitter for the Gambino family.

He already was out there doing talking.

So him and Mike Francis did interviews.

Just interviews.

I mean, so when me and Johnny got together, he put me on a show on a big podcast called Volad TV.

Yeah, I came out with Vlad.

I only did 10 minutes on there, but everyone knows who I was.

I was a modern day guy.

There's no such thing as that.

You know, everyone's old school, old school.

So me and Johnny came up with this idea, and we say, what if we started a podcast

for all kinds of crimes?

And you're down.

So,

long story short, we end up doing it, and it just blows up.

And then every other ex-monster just followed suit, you know?

Yeah.

And that's exactly how it happened, you know.

And then the government basically took it from me.

You know, I was still on probation.

So you got locked up and they had to put a hold well they kept there, they kept violating me for the show because you were traveling to film?

No, sitting next to an ex-con

they were mad that we were putting other cooperatives on the show

that was they still want to use one they kept put us in the newspaper.

The government was going crazy.

They wanted me off.

So they ended up starting violating me for it.

Damn.

I ended up doing like 20 months in violations.

Jeez.

Yeah.

Then you had to go to prison for those MBC Brooklyn.

Holy crap.

Yeah, they kept putting me in ankle monitors.

We saw my probation.

They were coming at me.

Jake, are you fine with freeball?

I'm done.

No more probation.

No more ankle monitors.

Jeez.

So you can't even start it again now?

I can, but you know, me and Johnny, he's in Jersey now.

I'm over in Florida.

So we don't want to do it through Zoom.

So we try to get together.

But he's in Europe right now.

So we had it going back for a little while and then we got demonetized through some things that we were saying.

Got it.

So we got married.

Oh, yeah.

How long have you known John?

Well, I mean, since I'm young, but you know, not well.

But, you know, he was good friends in my family.

And he went to jail in 2003.

I was just starting in the street, you know?

Yeah.

But

I knew his kids very well.

Did you know he was a hitman at the time?

Of course.

I mean, everybody knew what he did.

Wow.

And is that a path you wanted to follow?

Yeah.

Are you Brailish?

Yeah, I wanted to be like, you know, those guys.

You know, that's my whole life.

That's what I wanted to do.

What drew you to specifically the hitman route, though, or just...

No, just I wanted to be an organized crime.

Okay.

You know, I wanted to be a mob guy.

I was born into it.

My uncle was a captain.

My cousin was a hitter for the Gambinos.

You know, I just had it all around me.

Yeah.

You know, so at Howard Beach, Queens, I mean, where are you from?

Jersey, Central Jersey.

All right.

So, Queens, where I'm from, Howard Beach is like a mafia soul popper.

We have four bosses living out of the five.

Damn.

Yeah.

With hundreds of guys, associates.

So you walk out of your house, it's just organized cry, you know.

And that was your whole life.

That's your whole, my whole life.

Holy crap.

Any of those guys still around today?

Most of them are dead or doing life or, you know, cooperative.

Yeah, it's the same outcome for all of us.

Yeah.

You know, it's probably not many.

Michael was saying he only knows like one guy.

Well, here's the thing.

For the generation now, they'll survive because they're not doing the things that we were doing.

There's no more violence.

There's no more facing a lot of time.

When I was coming up, guys are facing life, shootings, murders, this, that.

All they're doing now is loan shocking and bookmaking.

What are you going to get?

Eight years?

No one's cooperating.

You know what?

Eight years.

You know what I'm saying?

So it's like,

they'll never experience what we had to experience.

So there's no more violence?

Gone.

Violence was gone.

No more hits.

No more.

Nothing.

We're gone.

There hasn't been a murder in 10 years.

Holy crap.

Yeah.

That's actually crazy because they're known for that.

Yeah, that's gone.

They took the murder out.

Is it because of the Rico's just scared?

Yeah, it's just that, and it turns, makes people cooperate.

You know, when you're facing life in prison, and, you know,

the murders is what brought the rocks, you know?

Do you think it'll ever get to the peak heyday of like Michael said 40s to 80s was the peak?

Yeah, 90s was pretty crazy, too.

Yeah, I mean, 90s were pretty nuts.

Just with Jack.

John Gotti, right?

Yeah, I mean, he was 80.

Yeah, he's 70s, 80s, but 90s was still really wild, you know?

So I would say 40s to 90s, I would say.

That's when you were in it, right?

Yeah, late, late, late 90s.

And caught out to L End of it.

Yeah, and then they started bringing off.

But don't get me wrong, we were still nuts.

Like, like my circle, early 2000s, we were still out of our minds.

Oh, yeah.

We were operating like we were in the 80s.

Did you want attention?

No, but to prosper in that life, we felt like money and violence was the way to prosper.

Right.

And that's what I did.

Were you trying to climb the ranks?

Yeah, you know, but it's not like a gang where you're blood and I'm blood and say, hey, you're my friend, you're blood now.

It don't work like that with us.

You got to be on record with a crew for a certain amount of time.

This episode of digital social hour is brought to you by better help making it easy and affordable to access online therapy give it a try at betterhelp.com slash dsh and get on your way to being your best self the holidays are a tricky time of the year for a lot of people and i like to stay cozy and warm at home with my favorite movies and a warm blanket and also some better help with a lot of time to reflect during the winter months therapy is a great way to embrace what's on our mind and find comfort that doesn't leave us even as the holidays fade away even if you've never tried therapy or always wondered about its effects, BetterHelp's online therapy option can be a helpful tool to learn about positive coping mechanisms and set boundaries that will aid you in years and events to come.

It doesn't just take trauma to make therapy worthwhile as we want to empower everyone to be the best version of themselves.

If you're thinking about therapy, give BetterHelp a try with its online platform designed to be convenient and suited to your schedule.

All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist with the freedom to switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

Find peace and comfort this December with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com slash DSH today to get 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelphelp.com slash DSH.

You got to show them that you could do time.

Back then, you got to put work in, everything to become a member, which could take you 10 years.

Damn, 10 years.

Oh, it could take 10 years.

Jen of each family, you got to be on record for 10 years that you would be considered.

Holy crap.

So every, you know, like I said, the mob is much different.

That's why we're so organized, and that's why the FBI hated us so much, because how organized we are and structured and how we went by the rules.

You went with a maid man's wife, you die.

You put your hands on a member, you're dead.

You know, these rules were very strict, and they had to go by them, and that's how they survived, you know?

Did you face any near-death experiences?

Absolutely.

Five attempts in my life.

Damn, five?

Yeah.

Was that after you switched her?

No, before.

Oh, before?

Street life, you know, living that crazy life.

So they put a hit on you?

No, yeah, you know, beefing.

And then, you know, they tried to kill me and they shot my elder friend.

It was just a lot of crazy stuff I went through, you know?

Holy crap.

My life was a movie, you know.

That's why I'm getting a TV show pretty much.

You know, I would fear death.

You're just used to it.

I was used to it.

You know, they tried to kill me in my house with a machine gun.

They tried to shoot me from my house with a shotgun.

I mean, I've been through it all, man.

Holy crap.

Yeah.

And you had no, like, warning, it just happened?

Yeah.

Oh, you don't see it coming, man.

Death.

We don't operate like that.

Walk in a room and you don't want to.

You don't see it coming, you know?

Any meetings you took where you were like, this might be my thing.

Yeah, so I had stuck up a social club, which is where mob guys hang out.

Me and my partner, I tell this story in a bunch of podcasts, but this is when I thought

we got stuck up.

I'll cut to the chase.

We did something we're on supposed to.

We stuck up a card game, and we had to go to the funeral parallel basement.

Whoa.

That's what I was cut for.

Holy crap.

I wasn't even going to go.

And you talked your way out of it?

No, but it was kind of like situated where we would just get a little beaten from our people and, you know, give the stuff back.

And then that was it.

Damn.

So going to card games and robbing them was a big thing for you?

Death.

It's a death pound.

So, you weren't about to do it.

No, we were doing it, though.

Supposed to do it.

Yeah.

So, you know, but you definitely get killed all that.

There's a scene of that in what's that movie?

Goodfellas?

Where they rob a card game?

That was that a different movie.

It's Sopranos, man.

Sopranos.

So, yeah.

But yeah, we were sticking up.

We were doing a lot of arm robberies.

That's how I started off with my partners.

We were doing a lot of scores.

And then...

you know, we went to loan shock and sports betting and then we got recruited by the Bonaro family and then we started doing work for them.

Were they the biggest family out of the five?

So there's no bigger family than the other.

I guess you may say at one time the Gambinos were the biggest, but usually I like to keep it equal.

Nobody's above anybody in their life.

That's how when you learn that, out of the five families, no one's above anybody.

Johnny's role equal.

You're a member, you're a member.

There's no difference.

You know, I don't care what family you're from.

You still get the same respect.

And they work together, right?

The family?

They do, yes.

But when it comes down to like beef, they'll take, you know, there's eyes.

But usually, yeah, we're all friends.

You know, I have friends that have all the crews and families, and we did things together.

But you got to be careful.

It's a lot of rules with that.

You can't get it fault now.

Beefs, you know, there's a lot of things.

You know, I mean, it's a lot of technicality shit, I say.

You know, were you in any beefs with certain families, any wars at the time?

No, more with the Albanians.

We used to fight with them a lot.

But yeah, there was definitely beefs within us.

You know what I mean?

Like crews or people that were beefing with each other inside the crew.

That happens a lot, you know?

What happened with Albanians?

They didn't like us when they came over.

So they were trying to run all the Italians out of their spots.

Yeah.

Yeah, and they weren't having it.

Oh, so it got violent.

Very violent.

They were dragging mob buys out of their restaurants.

Beatles.

Whoa.

Yeah.

It got really crazy.

And the Bronx in certain areas, it was getting wild, you know.

Holy crap, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

But the Italians are the biggest.

Well, we were, and then we softened up because the generation started getting richer and richer.

You know, they weren't hungry no more.

You know, their grandpas and fathers paved the way for these kids not to do anything no more.

So why are they in the street running around with guns?

Albanians are coming over starving like we did originally.

God.

So it's cycles.

Cycles.

So right now, where do you think they're at?

Mafia, Italian Mafia?

Yeah.

It's dead.

It's completely dead.

Pretty much dead.

It's there.

It'll always be there.

You'll always have your sports bet and your illegal gambling, your extortion, you know, unions, things.

But

the real organized crime, the fear of being killed, of shot, brought,

you know, that's gone.

Yeah.

You know?

All the movies, all the guns.

That stuff is all gone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are any other shows or movies actor?

Yes, Gofellas.

It's so accurate.

Oh, really?

Yeah, it's my neighborhood, basically.

That's my favorite one.

I worked for

the guy who was charged with LaTanza.

I worked for him personally.

Really?

Vinny Sarrow.

Did you have input on the movie?

No, no, no.

I'm saying, but he was charged with that.

Latanza.

I worked for him a lot later on in life.

That was my boss.

Oh, yeah.

What was that late?

He was psychotic.

You're a fucking nut job.

Vinny Sarah.

Everyone knows who he is.

You know, he's a psychopath, you know.

Well, he was, I got along with him, but he was crazy.

Oh, God.

What in the happening?

He died.

You ended up dying.

Didn't he prison?

No, no, down the street.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

But he was just a psychopath.

He had beat that trial, not guilty, no charges.

Damn.

Yeah.

How many times did they try to trial you?

I did 13 years total in prison.

Just the first trial guy?

No, just, no, I mean, in and out.

I did 13 years to my life.

But, you know, I've been through many cases.

Serious.

You met some interesting people in prison.

I want to go through some of them.

Hell, yes, I have.

So I'm a big crypto guy.

So you met Sam Bacon Freed.

I can't say I looked at a hole for Sam Bateman Freed.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

What was he like?

He was weird.

He was super weird.

But, you know, I mean, you know, he didn't fit in.

You know, I thought he was going to get life like 50 years he was supposed to.

For what I was told, the only reason why he didn't get the 50 or 75 years he was supposed to is because his victims actually said not to do that to him.

Really?

The people that were robbed for the money.

Whoa.

He got like $20, $25,000.

$27.

I don't agree with giving him that much time for

money.

I just don't.

Why?

I know guys that have premeditated murder that get 20 years in the feds.

You know, I don't understand, you know, killing someone and taking money.

You think it's different?

It's so different.

It does not fit.

You're not supposed to, you're supposed to get five years.

They'll pay you to some money back.

You don't belong getting 30 years, 100 years for taking money.

I'm sorry.

I think they wanted to to make an example because it was so big.

No, yeah, that's exactly what it is.

But at the end of the day, it don't fit.

It don't make sense.

I have friends who are murders, I'm telling you, kill people 30 years, 27 years.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

You know, it's right.

Was he targeted right away in there?

No, yeah, not really, but you could see they were going to be.

You know what I mean?

He's got money, so they're

helping.

Tons of money.

Yeah.

Damn.

So you got a, you, you stepped in there, right?

That's how I tried to get him.

I ended up fighting the kid, getting him, and I went to the hole, went home from the box.

So.

geez, how long were you in there?

Uh, I did a total on that bit.

I did like 90 days in the hole, man.

Dude, yeah, we were going crazy.

Oh, yeah, I was, you know, but I'm you, I've done lots of whole time, so I was not used to it.

But, you know, it sucks, but you got to do it.

There's nothing you can do about it.

Right.

There's nothing you can do.

You're there.

It's it.

You're not going nowhere.

You could scream, you could cry, you could dig.

You're not going nowhere.

You know what I'm saying?

You got the Bible, though, right?

Yeah.

You know, you're by yourself.

You know what I mean?

There's nothing you're doing.

Were you reading the Bible?

I was, I don't know what I was doing.

I was pacing.

Do you think they should remove the hole, these prisons?

They have a will.

Actually, the state is trying to.

The government will put you in a hole for 18 months

and don't even care.

The feds is fucked up, man.

The state is a lot better now than the feds.

The feds is really fucked up right now.

So you got to go to a state prison, not a fucking.

Yeah, feds is really fucked up right now.

They'll put you in investigation and put you in a hole for six months.

Holy shit.

And then tell you the investigation's up.

They don't like you.

You're far.

Well, not they don't like you.

It's just that their punishments are a lot more harsh.

Yeah.

Which prison was the toughest for you?

Rikers Island.

It's probably one of the worst prisons I've ever been to.

At home.

It's so violent.

Oh, really?

Chaotic.

Level four.

Oh, dirty.

It's just beyond that.

I mean, it's just chaos.

I mean, it's just no structure.

It's just five boroughs at war.

Oh, all the mob guys are there?

No.

All the gang members are there.

Oh, no mob guys are there.

Oh, shit.

You had no one there.

No one there.

She saw gangs.

Damn.

Just killing each other all day.

Holy shit.

You were just on your own in the middle.

Oh, yeah.

You know, it was just crazy.

Jesus.

Yeah, it was a horror show.

I just just went to Alcatraz.

They got rid of that one quick.

That's gone.

People couldn't handle that one.

No, I think when you're on an island, there's just psychologically, you're like...

Yeah, it's still Pelican Bay, right?

Is it about Pelican Bay?

Is that one of the bad out there in California?

I haven't heard about one.

Yeah, yeah, that's one of the bad ones.

I mean, there's still a lot of bad spots in California and stuff like that, but New York, the worst place is...

Reichazon.

New York in general, the court system, 96%

conviction rate.

Yeah.

It's like the worst state to go to court in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that where you did yours?

Yeah, all New York.

Yeah, you're not winning there.

No, you're not.

But I'll tell you one thing, their federal circuit is better than any other federal circuit.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

You go to other circuits, their time is way more.

Wow.

They give a lot more time out in the feds in other states.

I wonder why.

New York actually is the best place to be sentenced for federal.

I didn't know that.

Interesting.

Absolutely.

It's just not for state, though.

State, you're getting.

State, yeah.

But if you go to other states, like for federal, it's absolutely horrifying.

Wow.

Like, they give you 20 years for a pound that built hole.

It's crazy other states.

You You know, a federal say that.

And now wheat's legal and people are still in jail.

Well, if you cross state lines, it's not.

Yeah, I don't have a lot of it.

Did you ever get in a drug game when you were?

Robbing drug dealers.

We did a lot of that.

There were a lot of robbing drug dealers.

We did a lot of...

I've sold drugs, obviously, but we were robbing them.

When you were planning these robberies, how intricate was it?

How much planning went into it?

Or was it on the spot?

No, this is hard.

We were doing it professionally.

We were doing it professionally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Professionally, you're doing it.

Yeah.

Tracking devices on you.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

Watching you decoy cars,

nice cars, hiding cars with different plates on them.

You know, have different people follow you, you know, trying to, you know, kidnap you, kidnap, you know, a few before, stuff like that.

That's shit.

I didn't know that much went into it.

Yeah.

Doing a lot.

What was the biggest score?

Well, we hit jewelry stores as well.

So, I mean, I've hit a jewelry store for, well, they said it was 2 million, but it wasn't.

It was 1 million.

But yeah, I hit 1 million.

You don't got a Billing Berry somewhere?

No.

No.

I wish.

Well, they're going to say that for the insurance claim.

Yeah.

Oh, they did.

Exactly.

That was in 2005.

We hit it in the middle of the.

Damn.

2 million back then.

Yeah.

In 2005, that was.

Holy crap.

It was almost 20 years ago.

I had the biggest jewelry deep on the show.

I'm trying to remember his name, dude.

He was a bald guy.

But yeah, he said he hit.

Jewelry was a good.

Yeah, I was a big guy.

I was a big score guy.

I liked the heist, you know.

I liked all that stuff.

He liked the adrenaline.

Yeah, I did.

I was a stick-up guy, you know.

I did a lot of stuff like that.

But, you know, in general, I was just a ballsy dude.

So, you know, I liked all that stuff.

Yeah.

Damn.

You also met Fetty Waba prison.

That was my buddy.

Yeah, I was a Fetty Waba.

He's in right now, right?

Yeah, he gave him six years.

And that's when you met him recently?

Yeah, I met him in prison.

Yeah, he was a cool guy, man.

I was shocked when he got busted for drugs.

I know.

Well, his situation is kind of messed up, but you know,

I can tell you one thing.

He's a good person.

I don't know him very well.

I didn't think he was going to be cool like that.

He actually was really friendly.

Really?

Yeah, cool guy.

And you were allowed, because usually they separate the races.

No, no, no, we're all together.

Really?

Yeah, and he was cool.

He was a cool guy.

Okay.

Because I thought the blacks were separate.

Nah.

Mm-hmm.

Nah, not prison.

No.

They weren't.

Everybody was hanging.

Which Christmas was on?

MBC Brooklyn.

Okay.

Wow.

wow you got your clicks but everybody was friendly with each other yeah because the movies you just see like that's like penitentiary stuff I'm gonna go behind the walls and stuff like that you know yeah any attempts on your life in prison or were they all outside no mostly outside but I was on a lot of jail beach but mostly everything was street I feel that yeah but you're completely done you're done with it yeah I've been done you know I go to jail not for stupid shit you know like not even jail

Dumb shit, violation, probations, you know, stuff for your girl, you know, shit like that, bullshit, nonsense, you know, nothing that I was known for.

Because that was the case.

I'd be doing life.

How do you fight off those adrenaline urges, though?

Well, I just know I don't want to die in jail.

That's what's going to happen.

You know what I mean?

You know, you're going to get caught.

You know, nobody gets away.

You get along with it for only a certain amount of time, and then it's the same ending.

I'm going to tell everybody.

Yeah.

So reflecting where you're at now and seeing all your peers either gone or in jail, how does that feel?

Everyone's gone or jail or cooperative.

Everyone I know.

Does it make you question, like, why did I survive this?

Yeah, everyone says that.

I don't know how I made it to the 40 years old that I am right now.

You know what I mean?

It's impressive.

I'm not supposed to be.

For your mouth, for like

you get it.

Absolutely.

I was, you know, I was on my mind.

I think someone's got a plan for you, dude.

Yeah, I think so.

I really believe that

this TV show is going to crack off.

I think that's what it's supposed to be.

And my neighborhood really wants that.

It's going to talk about like the five boroughs and the neighborhood and the modern day mafia.

And I think everyone's going to really love that shit.

What's the premise of the show?

So it's basically about modern-day mafia.

Everyone always has Mike Francis you have on, right?

He's from the 70s, the 80s, John Guy, All those guys are from the 70s and the 80s.

I'm the only guy here with the modern day, giving you all the stuff from our day.

So, you know, it's something new.

It's like a modern day, what went on in mafia in our time.

Right.

Did you ever deal with Gotti?

The grandkid worked for me.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, one of his grandsons was my guy.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So he would tell you stories about him and stuff?

Well, no.

I mean,

my uncle was above him at one time.

You know, my grandpa knew him.

You know, it was like a soap opera.

We all know each other, you know.

I never met him, but, you know, obviously, you know, all my friends, families worked for him and people like that, you know yeah his downfall was was rough yeah he knew it but you know i gotta say he he knew what his outcome was and he was okay with it oh he was okay with it he was okay he knew he was gonna die in prison he was the most watched guy in america at one time i mean he knew where he was going he killed poor castellan in the middle of the fucking street in front of a steakhouse

you know he knew where he was going he had the you know thousands of people on there he knew where he was going he wanted to go out like that you know did you know he killed him right away or did it take i mean i was a baby but i mean obviously everyone blamed you know blamed him obviously yeah him and Sammy right yeah he was the new boss I mean you know have you ever talked to Sammy yeah I was on a show with him oh you were yeah a few times I was with him in Beverly Hills oh nice yeah what was that like cool I like Sammy yeah he's man his show is awesome yeah he's cool Sammy man he's got me and my cousin Anthony did it together oh yeah yeah it was cool yeah because I know he had a lot of a lot of enemies oh my god

kill a lot of people he might have the record right no he don't have the record but he's got a lot of murders for mafia he's got to be up there he's up there but you know you got guys like tommy karate uh Gregory Scarpa, Groy DeMayo.

These guys kill 50 plus people.

Holy shit.

Yeah, it's a whole new ball game.

50 plus?

Oh, easy.

Yeah.

So back then, it was easier to do it.

Yeah,

these guys were serial killers.

You know, they would have been killing without the mafia.

Yeah, that's what I say.

Yeah, 50 plus.

I mean, yeah, Tommy Karate, they claim he's, who knows, they say the numbers are accountable.

Jeez.

Yeah, serial killer, the murdering fuck, Gregory Scarpa, too.

Gregory Scarpa goes back to the 50s killing people all the way to the 90s.

God damn.

Yeah.

They're finding bodies in the lake of Vegas.

Every other year.

Oh, absolutely.

Damn.

The mom was big in Vegas, right?

Absolutely.

And

that was a few miles, though.

That was Chicago mom.

That was a Chicago moment.

It doesn't seem like anymore.

They're remitting it.

No, they're all gone.

It's all watered down.

The only thing left is the five boroughs, really, and it's not really like.

No, nothing really.

Damn.

Yeah, it's nothing like that.

What about in Italy?

Is it still big in Italy?

Absolutely.

So why did it survive there, but not the U.S.?

Ah, because the laws and the way the world works, it's just much different over there.

You know what I mean?

Same reason why Canada is still crazy with the mafia.

Canada's?

Eventual Rico.

Oh, so is the Rico that, yeah.

Canada is still killing everybody, they kill each other out there all the time.

Wow, so that RICO was really effective, though, for

the U.S., you get life for nothing, right?

And they would get like 20 guys at once.

Oh, forget it.

They created that law to get the people that were the puppet masters, right?

Get the guys in the shadows.

You were probably freaking out when that came out.

No, I mean, I was young.

I wasn't even known, but I know when I got hit with it,

I thought what it does to you.

Yeah.

Everyone around you.

You know what I'm saying?

What percentage of people switch when that hits?

It depends.

You You know what I mean?

Like, I was a guy facing forever in a day.

So, most of the time, you won't cooperate unless you're facing life, 30 years, 40 years.

Most guys I know, you know, most of my friends that cooperated got five murders, three murders, multiple murders.

That Pelpy case, yeah.

Like, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

You cooperated about five years, you're a jerk off.

You should have never been in the street.

You know what I'm saying?

You should have never even thought about coming out your house or doing anything.

Yeah.

You know?

So, if you didn't cooperate, what would have happened?

I became a member, and I would be running Ronnie's crew.

i'd be in prison right now actually doing a lot more time wow so now the right move yeah and it was probably the toughest decision you've ever made in your life right yeah it was because you lost all your friends and everything

oh you did people didn't people love me man they knew the situation i was in my cousin wore a wire on me everyone told on me um

uh uh that my little brother was getting got a gun charge

it was just i was in such a bad position you know what i'm saying i got over royally

but um yeah i still talk to a lot of people okay how insane was the money No, I was never a multi-millionaire.

I made good money.

I made that by high $40,000 a month.

You know, that was like decent, you know what I'm saying?

But I was more of like the violent guy.

I was doing a lot of dirty work.

But at my high, I was making like $40,000 a month plus scores.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Well, you had a second way up too.

Yeah, I was about to start making some real.

My boss was making $400,000.

I'm like, holy shit.

Yeah.

Which boss was up?

Ronnie G.

Alonzo.

Okay.

Was he on that top 50 list they made?

No.

What?

He should be.

Yeah,

millions of dollars.

He lived in a $3 million house.

He was big money.

Damn.

Which boss do you think had the most money?

I would say of all time.

Wow, it's a tough one.

I mean, mine was big.

Joe Messino had a lot, 7 million gold balls in his house.

I mean, you got a bunch of these guys.

It's hard to say, but they say Frank Costello was the richest gangster ever.

And he was one of the first.

Yeah.

Okay.

What about recent ones, though?

Right now, there's so much money.

I don't know.

You can't even say you don't even know it's a loan shortening right yeah no you know they just have so much businesses and so many things you don't even know yeah because now they're cleaning it right they're putting in business millions and millions of dollars a lot of these guys have you know real estate yeah yeah that's crazy

was there any activity in jersey when you were part of it i we didn't deal with them you didn't do it yeah i really deal with jersey over there you know i mean there is there's cruise branches off in there but we didn't really deal with them got it because the sopranos with jersey yeah absolutely that's more 80 soprano is based off a guy named uh i believe in the ocean and uh that was like a long time ago you know the 80s yeah how accurate was that show pretty accurate really yeah okay you never know what these movies and shows yeah it's pretty accurate you know and then you have consultants on these shows remember that like me on the low right that might have been a mob guy in jersey and they pay them to give them stories so that's how they get stories oh i feel that i'm humped to see your show back ways well we know working on it right now you know just had a nice meeting yesterday we're trying to uh get this thing rolling oh god Cool.

Anything else you're working on?

So I might come out with a podcast again.

I was thinking about it.

You know, I was doing it again again with John Eli, but I'm thinking about doing a solo and trying to go on to like my own platform.

I was thinking about it, you know, but I got a lot of things going on.

I really want to focus on that TV show because that's what I really want.

Okay.

You know, that's my goal.

Yeah.

We'll link your stuff below, man.

And if you do start a pod, I'll help you out.

I'll get you on Rumble.

So you'll get the amount of toad.

That's cool, man.

Thank you.

Got you, man.

Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, absolutely, man.

Yeah, thanks for watching, guys.

See you tomorrow.