From Rock Bottom to Viral Success: A Digital Redemption | Michael Molthan DSH #965

me and the man underneath the bridge is one thing it's the bridge

but we are all addicts and that's what i love when i speak and engage where i see everyone's head doing this because they can relate right okay and once again it's a person place thing or a thought that has become my source and for me personally i had to reach for the invisible uh to fix my visible problems

All right, guys, got a crazy story for you guys today.

We got Michael Moth on here today.

I made the drive all the way from Dallas.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Man, I appreciate you.

What an honor.

Yeah.

So good to meet you.

I love what you do.

I love what you do.

I saw you on Steve-O, and I was like, who is this guy now?

That was a good show.

Yeah.

So, first of all, how did you get on that show?

Because that's crazy.

Well, we, you know, M2 The Rock is our platform and our show, you know, just like yours, where we have,

you know, inspiring stories from, you know, inspiring people.

And he was on his bucket list tour.

And the PR team that was, you know, running M2 The Rock at the time just took a stab and reached out to him to see if he'd be a guest on the show.

And he literally flew a red eye in and came in.

And he was real quiet, kind of reserved.

And I came in.

It was cold at the time.

I had a jacket on.

And he was kind of sizing me up.

And then once I took my jacket off, I saw the tats and

we started the show.

He was kind of reserved.

But then there was a connection that we could relate to each other as far as drug addiction, alcoholism, and partying and all that stuff.

And it popped.

I mean, we couldn't go to commercial breaks.

I mean, he just would not stop talking.

He was crying, but he's such a good dude, very passionate about

his recovery.

He was introverted because when you think of Steve-O, you think of just huge extrovert.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I'm that way too, introvert.

You know, off the screen, I'm pretty quiet.

But yeah, he is a good dude.

I highly endorse him.

Yeah.

You struggle with addiction early on, right?

I did.

I did.

You know, I am, you know,

my story is no different than any other drug addict alcoholic.

I drank, I did drugs, I fell down.

I said I was never going to to do it again.

I meant it and I did it again.

I didn't know why I was doing it.

But, you know, I've learned today that

we're taking our focus off the word addiction and addressing why the addiction.

And we've even broadened it, you know, further.

And when I speak and tour,

you know, everyone's an addict.

Everyone is an addict.

And so what is addiction?

You know, addiction is a person, it's a place, it's a thing, and a scary one, Sean, or a thought that has become my source um there's a stigma to drug addiction and alcoholism uh because the consequences are so severe thank god for me um and we're radical but it frustrates a lot of people who are drug addicts and alcoholics and the reason why it has a stigma is um they get frustrated because they actually see their behaviors too

but their uh relief for pain and suffering is something different it could be shopping it could be gambling It could be work.

It could be golf.

It could even be service work.

You know, that becomes their source.

And they think that's what defines the money, you know, and power.

Power is another one.

It's a big one.

It's a big one there.

So you're so right, though.

Everyone is addicted, which is a total mind shift, right?

Because before when you thought of addiction, it was just negative.

Yeah.

I mean, you think of the man underneath the bridge or the woman underneath the bridge and you think of a drug addict and alcoholic and a $2 needle junkie.

And, you know, that's that has what's been, you know, that's the stigma.

And, and it's, it's not, it's not true.

I mean, for me, I mean, the difference between me and the man underneath the bridge is one thing.

It's the bridge.

But we are all addicts.

And that's what I love when I speak and engage, where I see everyone's head doing this because they can relate.

Right.

Okay.

And once again, it's a person, place, thing, or a thought that has become my source.

And for me personally, I had to reach for the invisible to fix my visible problems.

You've just shifted your addictions towards positive, more positive ones, right?

That's correct.

Yeah, that's correct.

And so it's, you know, and I always tell people that when I wake up in the morning and my eyes are open,

I'm in full-blown relapse, you know, because I'm seeking these visible things.

But the great thing about my life today is I recognize the behaviors.

And, you know, my

fiancé, if she calls me out on something that she recognizes it,

I don't get angry, mad, and all that stuff.

I'm grateful that she sees it.

Go, man, you're right.

You know, you, you, thank you for checking me

because I need to look at what the root of the problem is.

Right.

You know, because for so many years, I mean, we keep watering the leaves on the tree, wondering why the tree is dying, and we have to get to the root of the problem.

Absolutely.

That's cool.

I just met your fiancé, a wonderful woman.

You picked up.

Yeah, and she's amazing.

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for her.

Wow.

Yeah.

How'd you guys meet?

We met, you know, three years ago, and

she's a producer, songwriter.

She raised money for films, and she approached me, and she approached me at

a detour in my life, a dark point in my life, where I was going to hang it all up.

I'm not making any money.

I mean, I keep serving and serving and serving and helping people.

And it was poor me, poor me, pour me a drink.

And our paths crossed.

And she literally looked at me and says, you're a rock star.

You're the real deal.

And I believe in you.

And I want to help you.

And it was just two humans, you know, working together.

And so as we worked together,

we still haven't gone on a date.

You know,

a chemistry, you know, formed and it's the most incredible relationship I've ever been in.

Wow.

Yeah.

For the first time, I'm not taking a hostage.

That's awesome.

So you didn't go on a date?

Not yet.

You know, we never went on a date.

Three years later.

It just formed.

We've been working so hard the last three years.

And, you know, we got the book coming out and, you know, in a film.

And

so it has been, it has been something else you know just flew in from la to meet you here so crazy well once that comes out hopefully you guys can get on a date man yeah we need to we need to go on one a little vacation but she's behind the scenes and she's the the voice that's not heard but um

wouldn't be here without her absolutely so right now people are addicted to this phone i talk about that a lot like it's bad my even my screen time well granted i'm working on it But still, my screen time is like eight hours a day.

Isn't that crazy?

Yeah.

And so funny you said that because when I speak to prove my point that everyone is an addict um i have everybody raise their hand who has a cell phone every hand goes up right and when i speak to kids you know that you know haven't been introduced to drugs or alcohol yet when i educate them on addiction you know they have their their phones and so i educate addiction is a mental obsession it's what it is and so can you and i'll ask you this can you go 24 hours without your phone and not think about it.

No, not right now.

Right.

And so that's the mental obsession.

And what it is, is that it's like every hour it goes by, it's like, okay, I wonder if someone texts me or like if someone commented on a post I made, you know, what, what's, what's going on and all that stuff.

And we become literally what's called a dry drunk where we're actually just miserable just sitting there because we are mentally obsessed over this visible thing that's got a hold of me.

It's bad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I remember growing up because I grew up without phones.

I didn't get one until high school.

And I I just feel like now it's it's really tough to fight it off.

I see the kids growing up now with phones and they're glued.

They are and it's scary because, you know, Lee and I were actually talking about this.

You know, I'm 55 years old.

So I grew up.

I remember the rotary phone.

I remember it went to a push-button phone.

I remember the phone on the wall.

In order to have privacy, you bought the real long cord so you could walk, you know, around.

And then the cordless phone came out.

And then TV grew into cable and all that as it, you know, really morphed.

And then computers happened.

And so I've gotten to see all this, you know, grow before my eyes.

But I remember as a kid when there was no phone and everything like that, man, you went outside and played and you rode your bike without a helmet and see how many, you know, see how many people you could jump on your bike.

And so I just don't see that anymore today.

No, I don't see kids playing outside anymore, which is crazy to me because that was a big part of my childhood.

Yeah.

And I think it's important for kids to play outside.

and learn that way, dude.

Yeah, schools are banning phones.

It's pretty crazy.

Yeah.

And that's good that they're banning them.

Must be tough to be a teacher right now with the attention span so short.

It's got to be tough.

And I mean, do kids still write in cursive?

You know, are kids still being taught to write in cursive?

Useless.

Yeah.

I mean, so I remember, you know, writing, I always had really neat handwriting.

And I remember I'd win the handwriting awards for cursive.

And so, you know, this is the world has really changed.

And, you know, there's still 24 hours in the day.

And,

you know, we all had that TikTok attention span, that 13 seconds.

Yeah.

You know, and

it's sad.

It's really sad, man.

So for those that don't know your story, we probably should have started with this, but could you briefly tell people your story?

Yeah.

I mean,

just real quickly, I grew up in a well-to-do home.

I mean, a wealthy home in Plano, Texas.

And

I grew up in country clubs and I grew up playing golf.

And,

you know, behind closed doors, it was a very physically abusive.

you know, family.

It was all directed towards me.

It was confusing.

Was your dad an alcoholic?

No, he wasn't.

I've spilt more alcohol in one day than he's drank in his whole life.

And he was still abusive without?

Yeah, he was.

He was.

And he

was a workaholic.

That's what defined him.

And then my mom, on the other hand,

she came from a very, very broken home, very, very abusive.

alcoholic family.

And she has those traits too.

And I have to emphasize this, is that alcoholism and drug addiction is the only disease.

It has to be self-diagnosed.

So I can't sit here and say, she's an alcoholic, or they're an alcoholic.

That's up to them.

You have to self-diagnose it.

But she portrayed all the traits of it.

So it was very confusing because when we go outside the home and, you know, go to the country clubs, we look like this perfect family.

So it was very confusing.

And so alongside of that, her father, my grandfather,

my entire childhood was sexually abusing me.

And so, yeah, and it was, it was really tough and confusing.

So I would stuff it and I would keep a secret, but I was real outgoing.

I I wanted to make everybody laugh.

And I was just really driven to always relieve my parents' pain and suffering.

I wanted their acceptance.

So I literally, you know, was sent to my room.

I grew up in my room.

I mean, I literally watched a tree grow.

Wow.

So I had real trauma as a kid.

And that's, I love to talk about trauma because that's where addiction comes from.

Any sort of addiction is we seek these visible things to try to ease the pain and suffering and the trauma.

But I had real trauma.

And then once alcohol and drugs came in my life, you know, I started to feel like everybody around me look, you know, I'm like, wow, I've arrived.

And in order to keep that same feeling, I would do more and more and more until I was drinking and using drugs to feel good about the bad decisions I was making.

And now I was creating self-inflicted trauma on top of the trauma.

Multiple suicide attempts.

But, you know,

tending, you know, I kept it together.

I mean, I went straight from, I was a good golfer.

You know, the men in the locker room raised me, these wealthy, successful men, golfers.

They taught me how to drink.

They taught me how to gamble,

taught me how to play golf.

And they also taught me how to die.

And so went straight from high school to the pro-golf tour and cat for the best golfer in the world at the time, Lanny Watkins, you know, for five years on the PGA tour.

and got off and got into real estate and home building and became one of the most well-known high-end luxury homebuilders in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

Crazy.

And married a girl from, we were best friends since kindergarten, but she didn't know who I was.

Really?

I was in character all the time.

No one knew the darkness.

You never told her any of this?

None of it.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I just had this darkness.

And then in 2009, she had a massive brain hemorrhage.

And my whole life changed.

And the families came in.

They were fighting over money.

And I was scared.

And then I twisted off and literally lost everything.

And,

you know, in 2011, I got my very first arrest, mug shot.

I was drunk and high.

I had a lot of cocaine.

And

I went to a place I said,

it's jail, you know, and Dallas County Jail, the largest jail in the country.

Wow, Dallas is the largest?

Yeah, Louis Dirt Justice Center.

They house 7,500 people.

Holy shit.

Why is it so bad out here?

It's just, I don't know.

It's just such a large town.

And in fact, there's a tower called the North North Tower and the second floor is called the Jungle.

And it's one of the most dangerous floors.

And they misdiagnose me.

You know, they categorize you when they arrest you.

They put the chomos together.

They put the misdemeanors together and the drugs and then the murderers.

And they put me in that tank.

And in that tank, it was after my, so after my first arrest, you know, I literally say, you know, Sean, man, this, I'm never doing this again.

I meant it.

And I got bonded out on a second degree felony and got bonded out, got back to my, you know, apartment.

And I said, I just need to knock the edge off.

Remember, I said I was never going to do it again.

I meant it.

I took one sip of alcohol and I was drunk and high again that night.

Yeah.

26 mug shots later, total of 27 mug shots.

I finally realized on the 27th mug shot that homeless had nothing living in a stolen suburban behind the bait shop at the lake.

You know, alcoholics, we always end up at the lake for some reason.

The water is calming.

Yeah, I guess.

But so, you know, I ended up there.

And, you know, after my 27th mug shot, and Judge Jennifer Bennett, who chased me all over the state of Texas.

Oh, you were on the run?

I was on the run.

Yeah.

And so, you know, after my 27th mug shot, May 29th, 2017,

I finally realized that

God was all I needed because he was all I had.

And then I had a spiritual awakening,

you know, in prison on July 7th, 2017, as as a result of a 75-year-old man i was in a two-man tank four by nine we didn't get to move around only like three hours a day

and i'm losing my mind you know and they called me rabbit because i couldn't sit still and um this book was given to me it's called detours by dr tony evans in oak cliff i didn't know who he was and this old man asked me to read to him i'm like it was so weird i mean i'm like Read to you.

You know, it's, it's weird.

Now I'm the only white guy in the tank, you know, and so I mind my own business because they thought I was gay or a cop because I'm white and proper, you know, and so.

So they put you with all the

murderers.

All the murderers.

I was in the tank with, you know, it's called an aggravated assault tank.

So everybody in there, they weren't going home.

Holy crap.

Yeah.

And so, um, and you couldn't tell anyone?

Well, I mean, I knew I was in the wrong tank, okay?

But at the end of the day, I was in the right tank, you know.

And so when I started reading to this old man, Uwe,

I started feeling that four days went by and I wasn't anxious or paranoid, freaking out.

I started feeling at ease and comfort.

And on July 7th, 2017, I woke up in my top bunk and I couldn't breathe, dude.

I mean, it's like tightness in my chest.

And I just took this deep breath out and I breath, you know, breathed out all this anger, resentment, and just all this rage is coming out of my body.

Like the movie Green Mile.

I'm not a movie watcher, but I remember watching that and all the flies coming out of his mouth.

Same thing.

That's what it felt like.

And I just felt all this love.

And I didn't know this feeling.

And I'm like looking around.

I'm like, going, man, I see the guards walking.

I'm like, oh, I love that dude.

Inside, I'm saying it.

And I didn't know what was happening, but something happened.

And as a result of, you know, me reading to Uwe,

I was out of self for the very first time.

I was serving somebody and I was expecting nothing in return.

Wow.

And then I caught chain, you know, and I went down to Central Texas.

I was on my way to prison.

And on October 13th, they put me in the same tank, rock and roll.

And I went in there and the same thing happened.

The tank starts coming closer together.

I was tank boss, you know, and I wasn't this jailhouse preacher.

I didn't know what I was reading.

I didn't know anything about the Bible or anything like that.

I was just learning.

So you were just reading to people?

I was just reading.

They would ask me, and then they saw my handwriting.

I'll write your name when we're done.

Yeah, super.

It's, yeah.

And so people always ask me to write their name.

And so I would write their name for them.

And they'd say, what are you reading?

And I would read out of the book detours or you know out of the bible and i always said this is how it's affecting me i wasn't preachy you know then they asked me to get up and speak at dinner and so i would read a quote wow so i started yeah so holy crap and i wasn't preaching because i was in this jailhouse minister and so i would say man i can really relate to this this is really helping me you know and and it created a lot of hope and it helped me and that's how i started my speaking career was in prison wow so um this is what's cool is on october 13th, 2017, they came up with a loudspeaker and they said, you know, Michael Moulton bunking junk.

And everybody's freaking out.

They're like, what's going on?

I'm like, that's got to be a mistake.

And they set me free and they released me and they literally had to physically push me out of prison.

They didn't want you gone.

Yeah.

And I was 300 miles away.

And that was the first time when the gas of the world hit me.

You know, I just said, okay, God, we've been talking.

And I said, God, what do you want me to do?

And just through thoughts and feelings, he just said, walk so i made the journey 300 miles back to dallas and turned myself into judge bennett and she had heard what i've been doing behind the walls i'm bald sunburned um and she says i don't want to get in the way of it and um she set me free and she says go pay it forward and here i am with you today holy crap paying it forward so you were supposed to go back yeah i would have turned myself into they made a mistake there was a technicality i thought oh i mean literally i was having cops run my driver's license number i had it memorized i didn't have any ID.

Yeah.

And they would run it.

They said, you don't have any charges.

Wow.

It was just all wiped.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

So it was just, yeah, that's right.

Oh, my God.

That's what it is.

And so, but the,

you know,

I'm a huge believer in Jesus Christ.

I'm a huge believer in the Bible.

It works for me.

That's not my platform.

You know, I just want to show the world who God is, not tell them.

You know, respect.

Yeah.

Some people are a little too pushy with that.

Yeah.

I just want to show them.

Yeah.

Because I remember seeing men when I was growing up, you know, like going, there's just something about that guy.

You know, you feel a man walk in.

It's just a good spirit and energy.

I'm on with that guy.

It's got,

and that's what I want to be.

I love that.

Do you still talk to Hui?

He's still locked up.

Oh, he is?

Yeah.

I don't know his free world name.

And I don't know, but

God used him to

save a lot of people's lives.

And what's interesting is when he was a young man walking down the streets of Oak Cliff in Dallas, which is South Dallas, Dr.

Tony Evans used to pick him up and go to church and he'd be detoxing off heroin.

Wow.

And that book, you know, crossed our path.

That's beautiful, man.

I'm a big believer in energy.

I think you were just putting out so much good energy that the universe rewarded you for doing that, for real.

Well, it was a result of

true surrender and true forgiveness.

You know, I truly forgave the ones that, you know, had done me wrong.

And when you read the book, 300 Miles and you get finished with it, you're going to see that I'm not demonizing anybody.

I look at life today through God's perspective not the world or the cultures

and i look at stuff like why'd this happen why is this happening right you know and what's interesting we just finished uh proofreading the last chapter of the book 300 miles it was on july 7th 2024 seven years to the day Wow.

That I had my awakening.

Crazy.

Isn't that amazing?

Yeah.

Numbers always fascinating.

Yeah, me too.

Seven, seven, like in the Bible, it's the number of completion.

Yep.

You know, and I believe in that.

I do too.

Wow.

300 miles.

How long did that take?

Well, that's a story behind the story.

You know, I, you know, I went to reading the book.

Yeah, I went to parole and I've worked.

I walked about 75 miles to the bus station, used my mug shot as an ID to pick up, to pick up a ticket that a benevolence fund bought for me.

Wow.

And got back to Dallas.

That is insane, dude.

And here we are six years later.

Completely sober now, right?

Completely sober.

Beautiful.

Beautiful.

27 arrests.

Were they all drug-related?

Yeah.

They were done, you know, drug-related, bond forfeiture,

probation violation.

I never put hands on anybody.

But

it was a lot.

And I learned so much.

Out of six years, I was incarcerated four years.

Wow.

And so, but I learned so much.

And

these people, these wrecked men, saved my life.

And here's what's interesting, Sean.

100% of the inmates I did time with had little or no relationship with their father.

Whoa.

So our crisis today is the missing man.

100% of them.

Yeah, you can't argue with that number.

Our crisis today is the missing man, and it's time for men and fathers to take the dinner table back, you know, to play that role.

We have women today that are playing the roles as men.

It's tough.

It is.

So that's my mission and passion of sharing.

No, that's so important.

I mean, my parents got divorced when I was 10, but not having that father figure, I could definitely see it affecting me.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I went down a very lonely route.

I didn't, you know, it was tough making friends.

I didn't even know how to tie a tie.

I didn't know how to do manly things.

Yeah.

I lacked confidence.

Yeah.

It's a major thing on a kid.

Yeah.

But it's our responsibility to not repeat the behavior.

Right.

You know, and have that mentor in your life,

you know, a man in your life that you look up to and go talk to that man that you've always seen saying, I want what you got.

Yeah.

So I strive to do that.

I'm not perfect.

You know, I mess up.

I mess up, but I recognize it and I make my apologies and not repeat the behavior.

Yeah, we got to get back to that traditional family.

Yeah.

Because right now the divorce rates are at an all-time high.

All-time high.

You know, if we have a messed up man making his contributions to a messed up family,

we got a messed up family.

And if that family is making its contribution to the, to the neighborhood, now we got neighborhood, church, city, state, country,

world.

So the solution is it's time for men to become men.

Trickles down everywhere.

And now because of social media, it trickles down even faster than it used to.

Yes, it does.

And now they're pitting men and women against each other on social media.

That's right.

And that's why I love what you and I are doing because we're using social media for the good.

Right.

You know, to provide hope for the hopeless.

Yeah, I hate when, uh, yeah, there's all these shows that debate and stuff.

Like it's called Red Pill Movement.

Yeah.

I don't know if you see it, but it's, it's really bad, man.

Yeah, creating controversy to create engagement.

That's a luxury I don't have.

I'm not a fan of that model.

Yeah.

It's too toxic.

Too easy.

And it's going to come back on the person creating it too.

Right.

that negative energy that you're putting on.

Right.

And it's usually an angry person.

Yeah.

You know, and at the end of the day,

I feel for them.

You know, and it's, that's why, you know, what I do is it's hard to get engagement and following because we get a lot of views.

But as far as engagement, people don't want to step out there and make a comment because they're too scared that someone might see their name on there going, oh man, they may think I'm this way.

No, 100%.

I can relate.

All my most positive content doesn't get as much engagement as.

And here's what's interesting on M2 The Rock.

I actually looked at this.

You know, people were making assumptions assumptions that we had a more female following.

We actually are 65, 45 male, female.

So we actually have more men following M to the Rock than women, but they don't engage.

Yep.

I'm the same way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

70, 30 men to woman, but women engage way more.

All the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you still have emotional control, like issues controlling anger and stuff?

I do.

I do.

I am.

I am.

When I get angry, when Lee checks me and, you know, holds me accountable,

I feel old behaviors coming back.

I get in fear.

So when I get in fear, I get angry.

But you know what?

100% of the time when I'm angry at what she's saying, it's because she's right.

Wow.

It's because she's right.

And so I've gotten a, and the anger is different.

My anger is within.

I get quiet, real quiet.

But also, you know, what I'm working on too is when I get accused of something that I didn't do or say,

anybody in the world could say it, but if you're in my little bitty bitty small circle, my circle is very small.

You know, if someone were to say something in my circle that accused me of something I didn't do, dude, I can't get out of bed.

I mean, I'm better at it.

I mean, it just wrecks me.

Damn.

And I try so hard to, you know, prove myself, but I have, I'm at peace because I know truth.

I know.

I know my side of the street is clean.

Yeah.

And if they, and if I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

I'll fill that.

But man, I have to work on myself not to beat myself up with the bad and try feather.

Yeah.

You know, it's a little better.

Dude, it's something I've been working on because when my mom would walk into the room when I was growing up, my reaction would be to tense up and to argue.

Yeah, I can relate.

So I would take that on on my fiance, even though when she was coming with the best intentions, my immediate reaction is to argue and fight.

Right.

And it's, it was tough to get out of that, man.

Well, you bring up a good point.

I talk about, you know, it's fear.

You know, and fear is, I mean, the acronym for fear is false evidence appearing real.

It's not real.

If I don't do anything with that emotion of fear, it turns into resentment.

Then it turns into anger.

Then it turns into rage and then isolation, paranoia.

So it's the solution to fear because we talk about it.

That's the solution.

It's not medication.

It's not all this stuff.

It's definitely not medication.

Yeah.

So it's, it's, you know, it's, is we talk about it.

Yeah.

And as men, we need to be more open in doing that because

we keep it bottled in.

Yes.

Being vulnerable, if you're a man watching this, being vulnerable is very attractive to a woman.

being vulnerable is actually being brave it's okay to say i feel this way um you know if i was watching lee and i were watching a deal with jay shetty about you know about love and relationships

yeah and if if um you know if a woman you know doesn't like you being vulnerable and honest not the right woman yeah you know and that's where lee comes in she she really really uh thrives when i'm vulnerable that's awesome yeah i used to hold back tears me too and then my dad passed and that was probably the first first time I cried in 10 years, maybe.

Wow.

Yeah.

And it's okay to cry.

Yeah.

I let it out.

But even when that happened, I was like trying to fight the tears.

I was like, what the hell?

Yeah.

My dad just died.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Because we're so programmed to like hold it in.

Yeah.

Crazy.

So I cry at movies now.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Same.

Now I can tear up at movies.

Yeah.

So

we're allowed to do that.

We are allowed to feel.

Feeling is okay.

Stuffing it, not okay.

Because what happens is the more and more I stuffed my feelings in the past my solution to make those feelings go away is to seek visible things to try to fix this invisible problem when the solution is so simple and that's to talk about it yeah you know with a trusted source absolutely yeah you and Steve O bonded over that right yeah we talked yeah absolutely and um he's very vulnerable and and we really connected That's why I like his platform a lot because he used to be crazy, obviously.

That's what he was known for.

But now is he completely sober now?

Oh, yeah.

He's been sober 16, 17 years and i see him talking about that and it's it's great message yeah you know yeah he is he is but he doesn't wave any flag you know neither do i i don't wave a flag for any support group you know anything like that um but um you know people's anonymity is very important to me obviously i'm not anonymous i mean my bottom was so low i mean you can you can google all my lies

and so but but i'm okay with that was prison your rock bottom moment it was i mean it it was you know, I finally realized we hear the word rock bottom all the time, you know, and I finally realized that every time I kept hitting rock bottom, I was using my same tools that got me to rock bottom to get out.

I mean, I would use anger, resentment,

rage, the comeback.

I'll show you, you know, the rocky music playing and all this stuff.

And I would use, they call it the cycle, you know, we see it coming, Michael, it's a cycle.

And, you know, I would use those same tools.

This time, I stayed at the bottom.

I stayed next to the rock because I realized that all these times that the rock at the bottom for me was God.

So I stayed there and I let men like Uwe

and these prisoners that God used to bring in my life to pull me out.

I love it.

Did you get any visitors when you were in there?

Not one.

Not one.

Not family, friends, nothing.

My last arrest when I filled out my card, I didn't have a cell phone.

I like for an emergency contact number um and a name i couldn't write anybody down whoa because they all had given up on you yeah i mean but my whole life i never let anybody close you know i never had a best friend okay and the role i played in that is i didn't seek one wow i didn't want anybody close to me i mean i fought shame you know from all the sexual abuse i mean i i i mean to this day i still you know but before i still lock bathroom doors behind me even in my own house yeah and it's these things and you know in a men's wall urinal, you know, if there's one opening or the guy next to it, I have to wait for the deal to open.

These are little symptoms of sexual abuse, but I share that.

And I shared that one time when I was speaking and a guy came up to me crying.

He says, dude, you just talked for me.

And little did I know that he was connected to a bigwig at Securis

Technologies, which is government.

you know, communication.

And as a result of that, they put M to the Rock on every single tablet in every prison and jail in the country.

So this show here will be on it.

And they hear every episode of what we do.

And I get thousands of emails weekly from inmates all across the country.

Dude, that's so important.

As a result of being vulnerable, transparent, and forgiveness.

So when I look at it through God's perspective, he's using my grandfather,

okay,

to speak through me.

to help other inmates.

That's so important because these inmates are not going to admit if they got sexually abused to someone else.

That's right.

They're not going to want to be vulnerable.

But to hear it happen to someone, you know, that's, that could give them some faith.

And when I was locked up, me being vulnerable, okay, because it felt good, it put me in the safest place in the world.

And that was right here, right now, because that's where God's at, you know, and

being vulnerable.

They all started becoming vulnerable.

And this, I mean, this rock and roll tank, I mean, I saw a guy get killed in front of me.

Damn.

I saw a guy jump off the second row and hang himself.

And then within a month, this tank came together and it was so tight in fact when they they they when i was released they were crying wow you know bangers i'm talking bangers i've never heard of like a community in prison like that because usually there's a lot of uh conflict in prison yep a lot of conflict um and i saw it you know and it was rock and roll very tense very tense yeah um and but it was um it was one of the best experiences of my life.

There are days where I miss it.

You miss prison?

I do.

I miss it.

And what I miss the most about it is it was just god and i i was so spiritually connected because it was all i had yeah no other distraction or anything right it's all i had wow there'd be times i'd be in the chow line sean and i would feel my my back right butt cheek vibrate just being so used to having my phone in my back pocket for so long um it was just weird but it was um it was you know it was it was a absolute life changer.

Wow.

That's great to see, man, because a lot of people in prison end up going back.

Hell yeah, they do.

I think like over 80%, something crazy.

They become institutionalized and it's all they know.

And that's what they want, too, because they're making money off each prisoner.

That's right.

So they just see them as a business.

That's right.

Which is a shame.

And it's a lot of fear when they get out.

They don't have that drive of, you know, getting a job and all of that.

But a lot of them do.

You know, and those are the ones that are great stories.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My opinion on them has changed, honestly.

I used to like really look down on prisoners.

You've got an incredible

man in Las Vegas.

I'll hook you up with it.

Oh, It's called Hope for Prisoners.

He's got an incredible story.

I was on his platform.

And what he does for prisoners today is unbelievable.

Nice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I think everyone can really turn things around.

Yeah.

I mean, look at you.

Yeah.

And now look at your kids.

You show me your kids out there.

Yeah.

You know, so proud of, you know, I got four of them.

I have two from a previous marriage that I abandoned.

And they're back in my life.

Wow, you abandoned them?

Yeah, I abandoned them.

I was, I left because of my drug use and got away.

And they're doing great.

And I have a son that, you know, from that marriage that's three, three years clean now.

And out of the clear blue, as a result of him to the rock watching the show, my daughter reached out to me and said, hey, you know,

Brandon really needs some help.

And I dropped everything and I went out there just to listen to him.

Wow.

And his mom literally said, never my wildest dreams did I think that, you know, I'd be seeing you, but for the first time, I have faith in you and our son needs your help.

Whoa.

And so I literally, I literally just read to him.

And that's what I'm doing today, you know, is reading to people.

Dude, that's incredible.

Yeah.

So he didn't talk to you for all those years.

And then

he had a right to.

Wow.

Out of all the people in the world to sue me and

take me down was was their mom.

And she did the complete opposite.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How old were they when you left?

They were probably, let's see here, I'm guessing seven and five.

Yeah, that's when they need you.

Hell yeah.

And I, I, I, I lived my whole life after that just,

oh, killing myself.

And so when I had my other boys, Hudson and Hogan, I was so focused on not to repeat that behavior.

And, you know, I was a good father.

I love that.

But as a result of a really, when Stacey went down and had the brain hemorrhage, you know, her parents came in and basically just wrecked everything.

And I haven't spoken to them since.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

Where your kids are?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I haven't spoken to them since, but I'm okay with that because I get to show the world and show them, this is what I'm doing today.

And dude, I'm not killing it financially.

I'm not.

I mean, this is, this is full-blown.

I'm going to use a church word.

This is full-blown ministry.

Wow.

You know, because that's what God told me to do.

Walk.

And that's what Judge Bennett told me to do is go pay it forward.

And that's what I do.

Every time Sean and I try to quit, every time, I mean, this like burning bush moment happens where someone will call.

I mean, I literally had.

I quit,

took all the lights down in my studio and everything like that and went outside to go for a walk and a white denali pulls up and they rolled the window down and they go are you him too and i said well yeah i'm michael and they said this is my husband here you saved his life he watches your show whoa and i'm like

so went back up and put the studio back together

and so um and i just remember that god said you know hey i set your bond and i gave jesus the key and you put it in the lock and set you free he says you're gonna mind somebody you're gonna mind me dang and so that's what i'm doing crazy but it's hard yeah no it is it It takes a lot of time.

Podcasting.

It's not easy.

Yeah, it takes a lot of faith.

And, um, but with the book coming out and Grashanda Lee Perez, incredible writer, and we got some great people behind us.

Um, seven years later, uh, we are starting to feel the light and see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Yeah.

And it's not a train.

Peaks and valleys.

That's life.

It is.

And that's, but the, but the valleys is where when we see life through God's perspective, that's where we learn.

You know, why did God God allow, why would God allow my grandfather to sexually abuse me?

Okay.

Looking at it today through God's perspective, I look at it, it's a gift.

It is a gift because I get to share my personal experience and this and forgiveness to help others like this man who heard it.

And now it's on all the tablets.

Right.

You know, in all the prisons and jails.

And so to be vulnerable like that and to share that provides people hope

that they can do it.

yeah look at all the lives you're gonna save man and that's not medication no definitely not i think you'll reconnect with your kids one day too i do too i believe it i do too and people say that all the time and i truly believe it the problem is god doesn't wear a watch

you know what i mean yeah so i want what i want what i want it but i am i know that i'm i'm i'm powerless i'm powerless over wow yeah i must be tough on you man i'm sorry to hear that i appreciate it yeah i can't imagine that sounds like a tricky situation geez i'm grateful i'm really grateful You know, I'm at.

But you know what?

Today, we hear the word acceptance.

And

what is complete acceptance?

And complete acceptance is when I have absolutely no resentments because that's what's killing our human race is resentments.

A lot of that.

That's what's killing our human race is resentment.

And how do I get over resentment?

Is I accept the role that I play in it.

Wait a minute.

You played a role in your grandfather sexually abusing you?

Absolutely, I did.

And the role i played it was i chose to hold on to the resentment wow i chose to hold on to the resentment right damn and i don't have i don't have any resentments today now the day's not over but i don't have any resentments today when when i when i coach coach people and help people um they say i don't have any resentments i said oh really i said okay well write down on a piece of paper everyone who owes you an apology and they like man it's just like tons of people and i said there's your resentment list yeah everyone has them no one owes me an apology Could be a high school bully.

It could be anyone.

Sure.

I saw my dad live with it his whole life.

His father beat him up physically growing up on a farm in Pennsylvania and it ate at him, dude.

Like for real.

I can relate.

Yeah.

He, I could see him like being affected by it.

I can relate.

Yeah.

And it's not okay.

It's not okay what they did, but it's my responsibility to change the behavior.

Yeah, it's not healthy.

I know people want to have like enemies and stuff, but long term, it's just bad for your health you know they don't even realize it's eating at them well you know i went to prison okay i got 27 mug shots and let me tell you why because i didn't know how to process fear um and it was because of anger and resentment it wasn't drugs and alcohol that's just a symptom you know

um and

and and that's why i went and now that i see it through that perspective um I'm at peace.

Wow.

Yeah.

Because the anger and resentment led to the alcohol, right?

That's how it worked for you.

That's right.

You know, I hear people say, I'm a functioning alcoholic.

There's no such thing.

Okay.

If you have to announce you're a functioning alcoholic, it means you're an alcoholic.

You know, it's like a, it's like being half pregnant.

You know, you can't, you can't be that.

Absolutely.

When does the book and you said a film's coming out too?

Yeah, we're working on that.

The book will be first.

And so we, um, the book will be out October 2024.

Um, you know, you can get it anywhere.

And then we'll be doing a book tour across the country and a speaking tour.

And man, i'm just i'm just i'm mike bernie remember that movie weekend at bernie's yeah you know i'm like bernie they're just gonna prop me up and i just talk yeah you know and so and i let you know i never know what i'm gonna say i just simply go in the bathroom and say god put the words in my mouth because if i make up if i make up a script everybody's going to prison we're all going to prison sean so it's not as good when it's uh you could tell when people are giving like a powerpoint slide or whatever yeah it's not as authentic yeah i don't do that i can't do that you got to feel out the crowd yeah i just go yeah

i could i could speak to anyone about any, and I can speak to, I can speak to kids, I could speak to prisoners, and I can speak to corporate America

all about self-improvement.

I love it, man.

What's your advice to parents where their kids are dealing with addictions right now?

Great question.

I'm glad you asked that.

Is for the parents to get help.

What happens, Sean, is that the parents actually become more sick than the addict.

Okay.

And their drug of choice is actually the kid.

Okay.

And they don't realize it but they start co-signing on the behaviors and they start acting like it like i said earlier they're frustrated because they're seeing their behaviors live on stage they're just not doing drugs and alcohol and so they start co-signing on it so for them to reach out and find another family that has gone through this all right and lean on another family that can relate so when they talk to that family um that that when they're talking to them and then they're listening to the family that has recovered from this they start doing this and they start looking at the role that they play in it and they start working a program of themselves you know a child or a family member that's in active addiction of anything okay

it's like throwing a hang grenade into a family union the whole family jumps on the hang grenade yeah you know and so that's where the family has to do and we we we address everybody who reaches out to us into the rock or loved ones i love that Everyone that reaches out and it's never the addict, you know, and when they do reach out,

and I don't talk to women, but if it's a man that reaches out and

I do talk to them, I do this simple thing.

I just simply say, why do you drink?

Why do you do drugs?

Why are you addicted to porn, gambling, work, anger?

You know, anger is a drug and all this stuff.

Why do you do it?

And they start explaining and I cut them off.

I said, wrong answer, wrong answer, wrong answer, wrong answer.

And I said, you're going to get frustrated with me because no one's ever gotten it right.

And they keep saying it and say it.

And they finally get frustrated.

They go, I don't know.

Right answer.

That's the right answer.

Why do you drink?

Why do you do drugs?

I don't know.

No one taught me that.

That's what I remember saying after my 27th mug shot when I truly surrender.

And I told Judge Bennett, I don't know why I'm doing the things I'm doing.

And I'll do whatever you tell me to do.

Wow.

If you send me to prison for 25 years, I'm down.

I don't ever want to feel this way ever again.

Jeez, that's crazy.

Why don't you talk to women?

You said you don't talk to women?

I don't.

You know, in a program, you know, men work with men and women work with women.

And when you have a woman in recovery, we get so much engagement with women.

And as I look at it through God's perspective, what they're doing is they're searching for that spiritual leader of the household.

They're searching for that father.

Right.

And so they're wounded.

And so I can't relate to a woman.

And so women, if we do, we direct them in the right direction.

But a woman working with a woman is powerful.

You know, I see it with Lee when she works with women and talks to women.

I mean, there's conversations that they have that I can't have, you know, and I tell them if I'm on the phone with them, I say, hey, I'm putting you on speakerphone and Lee's here because they're, they're wounded.

And for people watching this,

you know, they'll, they'll tend to go to men and men, you know, will try to be the white knight.

And now you have two sick people getting sick again and they spin off

and go back out.

And it's deadly.

My dad lost one of his kids to a video game addiction.

That's a great topic.

Yeah, he played all day for years and they just kept fighting, eventually kicked him out and they never rekindled.

Wow.

Yeah, and then he ended up passing away.

So they never rekindled that relationship.

Once again, there's another visible thing.

It was a mental obsession.

So why was it the why was this person doing video games?

The real root of it was, is he was trying to get relief from some sort of trauma, you know, some sort of, you know, of the feelings of trauma and suffering and pain.

That's why we reach out for these things to get release of that.

And so instead of the solution is, is, is talking about it.

It's real simple.

You know, that's why dads, it's so, I could never sit with my dad and say, hey, man, I'm scared.

Yeah.

Everybody around me is hitting puberty and I'm not.

I'm scared.

You know what I mean?

I couldn't have those conversations, you know, with them.

It just didn't happen.

And I think parents are also scared to admit to other parents that their kids have some issues, right?

Because every parent thinks they have the best kids and they're scared to.

Especially in the upper class.

I work with a lot of people in the upper class, you know, high net worth.

And, you know, it's their, it's their, you know, it's, they want to keep that image.

You know, I'm like, and their kids end up ODing and dying.

Damn.

You know, then the, then the image is out there.

And then the image is actually tarnished worse.

It's like, how long do you know this?

Well, we've known it his whole life.

Well, why didn't you do anything about it?

Why didn't you talk to us about it?

Our son's been clean.

Our daughter's been clean for 12 years.

We could have have helped you.

Right.

You know, and so that's where it is, is to, is to step out there and be vulnerable.

Yeah.

You know, the pride and the ego gets in the way.

That's exactly right.

Yeah.

But everyone's got their demons.

They got to, they got to battle with, right?

That's right.

Like you said how we started this.

Everyone's addicted to something.

Yeah.

And so, you know, we hear the deal, you know, you know, spirit, mind, and body.

You know, when for me personally, when the spirit, mind, and body is out of order, my life is in chaos because the spirit feeds my mind and the mind feeds my body.

And it's proven because it was always out of order because of the chemicals I was putting.

And when that's in order, this is what you get.

You see it, you feel it.

If it's out of order and I'm feeding my body with visible things,

I'm a wreck.

I look like it.

I feel like it.

You know, to be graphic, I mean, if I'm shooting heroin and that is my God,

that is my source,

the external shows.

I look horrible.

You know, I'm ragged out.

Yeah.

So when I fill my body with the spirit and the way I get the spirit is doing this, you know, helping others.

When I fill it with the spirit, my mind is sharp and my mind feeds my body and I feel better and I look better.

100% agree.

I used to neglect spirit.

I used to just chase money and material things, but I never achieved.

all around

and it never felt that whole never felt that whole but these days when i wake up i feel so fulfilled dude it's crazy and you know one thing i'll challenge you to do that that works really good every night is, or during the day, to hit your reset button.

Just look at one thing.

Look at your feet.

Take five deep breaths because when you look at your feet, that's where you're at.

That's what's really happening.

Nothing else is happening.

All right.

And then make a gratitude list.

I do that every morning.

There you go.

Make a gratitude list and it gets you at itself.

And it's, it's, it's, it's just, it puts you back in the safest place in the world.

Like this show we're doing right now.

Let's just say we've been on here for 40 minutes already.

All right.

Have you once thought about the future?

No.

Have you once thought about the past?

No.

Have you once got anxious or depressed?

No.

Because we're in the now.

Yeah, we're right here right now.

We're serving each other.

This is not about me.

It's not about you.

It's a connection.

It's community.

We can do that all the time.

Right.

You know, so I challenge people that, you know, you get in the dump and you're driving, just text five people expecting nothing return.

Saying, hey, man, I'm just thinking about you.

I really appreciate you.

That's it.

And what it does, it increases dopamine, but nothing like serving other people.

Yep.

Ken Jocelyn does that to me.

He'll send me a video once in a while.

I'll be like, wow, I've never gotten that before.

Shout out to Ken Jocelyn.

I mean, he is so awesome.

I mean, I remember meeting him.

And I mean, he's been the base, the best.

agent.

And that's how I met you.

Yeah.

He said he prayed for me.

I was like, damn, no one's ever done this for me before.

Like, I really appreciate you.

I'm going to do it.

I really am.

I feel a connection.

I feel your vibe.

You're a really good person.

I appreciate that.

Me too, man.

It's just, it's such a good deal.

There's, there's a lot of impact that will be made as a result of this episode.

Absolutely.

The webs of

lives that will be saved and information shared.

Absolutely.

Can't wait to see the results, dude.

Anything else you want to leave the audience with?

No, I mean, we just

share this out for you.

Hit the subscribe button for Sean.

Hopefully your book's out too by the time this airs.

Yeah.

October 20, you know, 2024 will be out.

And our website is, you know, m2, the number two, the rock rock.com.

And just go right there, and you can follow us everywhere.

Awesome.

We'll link below.

Thanks for coming out.

And thank you so much.

Thanks for watching, guys.

That was an amazing episode, and I will see you guys tomorrow.