The $10M Crypto Mistake That Led to Podcast Success | Erwin McManus DSH #915

Have you ever had an interview where someone said something that totally caught you off guard, and at first you felt like, I don't know if this is accurate or true or right, and then it changed your mind?

There's been a ton.

Lately, politics is hot on the show, so politics.

Yeah, we don't have to talk about that now.

No, no, I'm going,

I kind of want to know.

Well, what are some of the things that have stood out to you?

Yeah, well, we're in LA, so I got to be, you know, we have armed security that will help you out of the city, so, you know.

Hey, would you guys welcome Sean Kelly?

Sean,

first of all, I just gotta just, you know, shout out your swag.

Thank you.

It's pretty amazing.

The character on your hoodie looks like you.

Yeah.

It is.

And a younger version.

Yeah, you could say that.

No.

All right, so I met you when I went to Las Vegas.

You invited me on your podcast, Digital Social Hour.

It was an incredible experience.

And I just want to begin here.

You have 11.3 million followers on Instagram.

We're close.

All right.

You're ahead by 11 million.

How did the journey begin to develop that kind of footprint in the social media space?

Yeah,

well, I used to run a lot of paid ads.

So years ago, that's how I grew.

But lately, the growth has been through the podcasts.

So I filmed 1,200 episodes in two years.

I do about 60 episodes a month, and I'm posting six times a day.

So I got a lot of chances to go viral.

Wow.

Anybody come in here thinking you're working too hard?

Because that's over, right?

That's over

you've had over 1200 interviews yeah 1200 that's amazing so I have to ask you all right I mean I know that our interview was like one of your favorites so let's just put that one aside okay

and

what were some of the most interesting interviews that you've experienced there's been so many and I've had massive personal growth from the podcast.

When I started this show, I was actually atheist and I was in a really unhealthy, in a bad spiritual mindset as well.

So I've just had so many growths.

So on the spiritual side, I'd say Matteus DeStefano was a good one.

Robert Edward Grant, Billy Carson, yourself.

Physically, Gary Brecca changed my health.

I used to get sick every single month, and I haven't been sick in two years now since I started.

And then business-wise, there's been so many.

I've had on quite a few billionaires.

Grant Cardone was good.

Ty Lopez, all those guys.

It's just been amazing to just just grow from the podcast.

That's so good.

When I was first connected with you, someone told me there's this guy named Sean Kelly.

He's really brilliant.

He's an atheist,

which is why I wanted to go on your podcast.

And I love making connections with people who are really bright, but also very thoughtful and open.

And that was my experience with you very, very much so.

There are some people who are atheists and they don't care.

And other people are atheists and they just don't know.

And I think it's interesting because I don't know if you could be a good interviewer if you didn't keep your mind open to every possibility.

Have you ever had an interview where someone said something that totally caught you off guard?

And at first you felt like, I don't know if this is accurate or true or right, and then it changed your mind.

Yeah, I mean, there's been a ton.

Lately, politics is hot on the show, so that's been kind of interesting.

Politics?

Yeah, we don't have to talk about that now.

No, no, I'm going,

I kind of want to know.

I mean, Brendan Bouchard talked about

anyway,

so let's talk about politics.

What are some of the things that have stood out to you?

Just speak freely.

Yeah, well, we're in L.A., so I got to be, you know.

Yes, it's true.

But

we have armed security that will help help you out of the city.

So

just say whatever you want to say because life is short.

Well, I'll just speak on this.

I had Tulsi Gabbard on the show, and my TikTok got banned.

Really?

Yeah.

That really happens.

It really happens.

So there's certain things that are censored, whether it's politics.

I've had on a lot of guests speak against big pharma.

And I've had YouTube strikes on my channel as a result of that.

And it's just something you got to deal with as a content creator.

So there's a...

Well, it's not even subtle.

No, it's not.

I mean, they'll literally tell you, they'll show you the video, tell you the reason, and

you're banned.

Wow.

So you know that there's almost a compliance that's implied

for whatever we talk about in social media.

And if you don't align with the expected narrative, you're going to get banned.

Yeah, with certain platforms for sure.

So does that make you want to talk about those things less or more?

I'm very curious, so I dive even more into it.

But at a certain point, you can't get too into it, or else you'll end up like Alex Jones and you're banned everywhere.

So, and we know that our nation leads the way globally for free speech.

And

that our government would certainly never try

to limit us from asking questions and having

dissenting perspectives.

But

have you found a way around that?

So the cool thing about my show is I'll have on both sides.

Okay.

I had on a gentleman two days ago.

It's going super viral today.

I'm getting blasted everywhere.

His name was David Pac-Man, and he's a super liberal guy.

So I had him on the whole show.

He just roasted me, basically.

But that doesn't get banned, does it?

That did not get banned, no.

Right, because anything liberal does not get banned.

But yeah, it's blowing up.

Mark Cuban even tweeted it out today.

It's got 20 million views.

So I'll have on both sides.

So I'm very open, you know.

So have you thought about, okay, so the far left isn't going to get banned.

Anything to the right of the middle is going to get banned.

So why don't you have them both on at the same time?

A debate.

Just a conversation.

I'm down.

I'm down.

Because I think that might be some way to avoid getting banned on TikTok and other social media platforms, and you're creating an environment for brilliant conversation.

I'd love that.

I think debate in the right setting is very valuable, actually.

I think we're on to something.

How many would enjoy something like that?

Because with your level of influence, the number of people who are

listening to your voice, are paying attention to the things you're paying attention to,

you could really create a tipping point

for our own culture to begin to have conversations together that are so necessary.

No, I agree.

It's a lot of people ask me how to get more views, but even just 500 views, that's this room right here.

So with millions of views, it's even more and more impactful, for sure.

I agree with that.

I love that.

You just told me before we came on that

our show, I guess one of the clips had over a million views.

Yeah.

Which clip was that?

It was about your near-death experience.

Thank you for being vulnerable on the show.

I think that's important.

Some guests come off really closed off, but you were very open about battling that disease.

So thank you.

Oh, thank you.

What I noticed when I was there is that it seemed so easy for you.

I mean, do you get nervous before you do a podcast?

Sometimes.

I think it's human nature to be a little nervous with certain guests.

But on paper, I shouldn't even be good at podcasting because I'm an introvert.

I had agoraphobia.

I have autism.

I have all these conditions.

I grew up with a lot of childhood trauma.

So you could either use that as an excuse or you can just, you know, learn from it, address that trauma, and heal and move on.

I love that.

Yeah.

By the way, if there's a consistent theme throughout the day, is that every successful person who's been up here

is really dysfunctional.

And I think, like,

being somewhat

unexpected

is a great advantage in a world where everyone tries to be expected.

And

so

I feel like maybe one of the great gifts that you receive without knowing it is that

you're born outside of the box.

Yeah, just be yourself.

My whole life up until college, I was pretending to be someone I wasn't, and it was just not fulfilling, you know?

And growing up pretty atheist was a lonely road, I'd say, looking back on it now.

Where do you think you are now in that journey, journey if i could ask i definitely believe in something i mean there's a higher power for sure we're gonna have some wonderful conversations and uh i i am just so excited and i'm glad we're beginning it here and um

because

interestingly enough there's a there's this guy

that's had like a tremendous influence on my life and his name is jesus and uh

and

And he, a lot of people think that what Jesus would say is, if you found the truth, you're in the best position.

But that's actually not what he says.

He says, if you are seeking the truth, you're in the best position.

And being a seeker is the ideal posture

to God.

And a huge problem with religion is that people convince themselves they've already found everything.

So they lose the highest value of spirituality is openness, curiosity to be a seeker.

So ironically, Sean, someone here could actually believe in God and be further away from God than you who are open and searching for God.

That's crazy to think about.

So tell us a little bit, all right, I feel like you're a little bit of an enigma.

11 million people follow you, but I wonder how many people know you.

What were some of the key moments in your life that have shaped you before you went public, before you had the digital social hour?

What were some of the things that brought you to that point?

Yeah, I grew up watching Rogan a lot.

So that definitely played a role in why I wanted to become a podcaster.

And I also failed at podcasting.

Five years ago, I started a show, a complete flop.

It was terrible.

So I had that chip on my shoulder, I think, to want to get back into it and succeed.

And just...

Starting the show, I was in a pretty dark place.

So even though I had financial wealth, I had just sold a company.

Tell us about that.

That gets set backwards for us.

Right.

So I was a crypto nerd.

I made good money with crypto and I had a crypto company.

And you actually made money on crypto.

I made and lost money on crypto.

Okay, okay.

So.

Thank you for the honesty.

Got to be honest.

Most people lose money in crypto.

So I just got to state that.

And I lost a ton.

So I had all this money at age 25.

I could have retired,

but I actually felt probably the worst I've ever felt.

So it was a weird dynamic.

I had no purpose at that time.

And

I ended up losing all the money right before I started the show.

So it was over $10 million, which I lost in crypto.

Wow.

So there was a point where you had 10 million in crypto.

Yeah.

Then there was a few big bankruptcies that happened, like Celsius, FTX, and combine that with crypto just going down 80, 90%.

I lost all that.

So then shortly after that, started the podcast and was just having conversations that led to me kind of finding purpose in life.

And that's where I'm at now.

Do you remember your first podcast?

I do.

I'm not sure if this is the right setting for it.

Oh, it really, really is.

But I can, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling it.

I feel like I know where you're going, but go ahead, tell us.

It was an OnlyFans girl.

Was that for a personal ambition or for a podcast interview?

She's a barber.

She sits on your lap while she cuts your hair.

That's quite impressive.

That's why I had her on.

Did she cut your hair while she was doing the show?

No, my girl wouldn't let me.

All right, so.

how many views did that first podcast have?

20 million.

If you're looking for takeaways.

Someone literally said to me, no one can figure out how Sean went from zero to 20 or 30 million.

Now we know.

And

so

I'm just curious.

What was your second interview?

How do you follow an OnlyFans barber and have 20 million followers and know that the next person is basically a throwaway?

I don't remember the second one.

Yeah, I knew it.

I knew it.

Oh.

All right.

So somewhere along the way,

as you began gaining momentum, because you had a lot of momentum, but imagine it was hard to hold on to it for a bit.

Yeah, I couldn't find another girl like her.

You could have found an OnlyFans chef.

There's just so many ways you could have gone.

But

what was the first significant interview where it took some courage or

it was unexpected that you would ask that person they would say yes the first one I remember being really nervous for this one was Howie Mandel

so I actually flew out here for that one it was my first time traveling and it was really early on in the show we weren't that big yet so he kind of took a chance on me

So that was the first breakthrough, I'd say, Howie Mandel.

And he has a lot of phobias, right?

Yeah, he's a germaphobe, so you're not allowed to give handshakes or touch him.

That's what I thought.

So did you go to his house?

He has a studio out here.

And is it all white?

Yeah, it's super clean.

I thought so.

And

because our building is all white, and so

I think I understand

the backdrop thinking.

But

so when you interviewed Howie Mandel,

How did you decide

what was the critical question you would ask them?

Yeah, so that's another reason I think the show does well is I ask questions normally they haven't been asked.

Hopefully I did that on our episode.

And that's because I watched like five to ten of their previous interviews and I read their books and I use AI to come up with some interesting questions.

So I just take the time to prepare.

But that was a tough one because a lot of celebrities are PR trained.

So you kind of have to break them.

So I didn't really feel like it turned into a podcast until like an hour in, honestly.

Yeah, I think it's interesting because asking questions is, I think, a greater art form than answering questions.

Because you can prepare for answering questions if you have a good group of people who can grill you with good questions.

But I think asking questions takes a level of interest and curiosity that most people don't have.

Yeah, I think it's learnable though, because if you look back on my first few episodes, I was terrible.

So you could definitely get better through repetition, but it's definitely something that is tough to just have right off the bat it's a

I can tell you when I went on your show I expected the conversation to go in one direction and it went a completely different direction and I kept thinking to myself I didn't know we were going this way I wonder if we're ever gonna go that way and then we were done

and and and I thought that was

a really interesting experience for me because a lot of times when you do interviews, you've heard the questions a thousand times before.

You can almost know ahead of time where it's going and what's going to happen.

And so you don't even necessarily have to turn on that part of your brain that has to think in a fresh and new way.

And you did have an ability just to take it someplace that was unexpected.

And I think the difference for me was you actually seemed interested.

And

not only do I think that that's a skill set and a talent, but it's actually a gift you give people.

Because when you interview someone and you communicate to them that you're actually interested in their story, interested in their life, interested in what they have to share,

you're actually

giving that person so much value

and saying that what you bring actually matters to me.

Yeah, I definitely learned a lot from the guests personally, but I also think in terms of how can I use their message and help other people.

So that's how I frame my questions and that's how I upload the content as well.

Even with Ali Webb, who came on this morning, I thought we were going to talk about dry bar building a $250 million business, but we were talking talking about all the trauma she's been through and with her kids and with failed marriages.

And it was just a really impactful episode.

And by the way, Allie, I thought your conversation with Aaron today was extraordinary.

It was really, really beautiful.

And I was sitting there listening, thinking about our Mind Shift podcast, and I realized, oh, wow,

I'm the liability.

And

the way you guys interacted, the way

the chemistry, the energy was just really, really beautiful.

It was really wonderful.

Sean, I want to ask you about your future.

Because you're 25,

you made 10 million, you lost 10 million, which puts you in a rare group of people that can lose 10 million.

So I want you to know, because I had a time in my life where I lost a few million, somewhere between six and 10.

It was hard to count.

And

I got a little depressed.

And I couldn't eat for a little while.

And

I lost so much weight, I looked awesome.

And

And I remember I had this thought to,

wow, I'm in a rare group.

Very few people can lose $10 million.

So rather than seeing it as, look what a dismal failure you are, I put it in a different category.

Look what a unique human being you are.

You get a story very few people have.

And you've reinvented yourself along the way.

You've added new skill sets.

You now have this massive platform.

But I want to ask you about your future.

Because I sense that you're still a person who's in the middle of your journey.

You're still trying to figure out the fullness of who you are and what you want to accomplish in your life.

Tell us a little bit about, like, what are some of your dreams?

If you could just have an ideal future or create some of the things that you long for most, what does that look like?

Yeah, great question.

I want to pass Rogan in episodes, so that's why I film a lot.

That's the main reason now.

He's at 2,400.

He has the world record, So that's a goal of mine in the next three years.

Who has the world record?

Joe Rogan.

Of course he does.

He got a 15-year head start.

Yeah, yeah.

And he has 2,400?

2,400 episodes.

So you're already halfway there.

Halfway there.

So if you actually just started putting some effort in

and giving up things like sleep,

you could really, you could accomplish that.

I went through that phase.

I'm not giving up sleep anymore, though.

I got an eight-sleep mattress.

It tracks all my sleep now.

Oh wow.

Yeah.

I love my sleep now.

But no, I won a family of kids, getting married next year.

I'm really excited for that chapter.

Getting married next year?

Yeah.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

But yeah, so I probably have one-tenth the network, net worth I had when I lost all that money right now, but I'm the happiest and most fulfilled I've ever been, which is crazy.

And I think a large part of that, yeah, I think a large part of that is definitely the podcast and just inspiring people, educating people, meeting people, learning so much information.

So I love the journey I'm at.

We'll see where I'm at in three to five years.

That's beautiful.

All right.

How many of you, I'm just kind of curious, would

love to increase your social media presence?

I'm just kind of curious how many of that's important to you.

Some of you would be like, what's social media?

But that's most of the room, actually.

So could you take a few minutes and just mentor the room?

Talk to us.

If we want to build our brand, if we want to

expand our influence, our voice, where would you tell us to begin and what are some steps you'd give us along the way?

Definitely collaboration.

So

on all my clips, I add the guest as a collaborator and their business pages.

So I'm able to grow quick because I'm also using their audience to grow.

You need really good editors.

And the most important thing with the clips is the first three seconds, the hook, because people are going to not watch the video if that's not interesting.

So start off with a bold statement in all your clips, something to keep people watching.

And you just need to get the reps in.

You're not gonna get views right off the bat.

I got so the thing with that OnlyFans Girl is I planned that out.

It wasn't by chance.

I knew I had to start my podcast with a bang, with something unique.

So, that's why I had her on first.

Bang could mean so many different things.

So, just be strategic with

who you're collabing with

and post every day.

I mean, I see people doing one podcast a week, which is fine, but you won't have the level of growth that people that post every day have.

All right, so maybe I'm unclear.

How many podcasts do you post a week?

21.

Okay.

You post 21 podcasts a week.

What is the average length of each podcast?

30 to 45 minutes.

Anybody really good at math?

And

if you're posting 21 podcasts a week,

how many hours a week do you spend filming?

I do 10 to 15 episodes a week, so about 10 to 15 hours.

Is it all in one day or two days?

Two days, sometimes three days.

You just do them back to back to back to back?

Yeah, I like to stack my days that way.

The rest of the week I could focus on the other aspects of the day.

Well, that's why you kicked me out right after, like, because you didn't have time to say hello.

There was another guest after you.

And yeah,

I felt that, you know, it was like

one of those speed dating.

But I got the rejections.

Like, boom, I'm out.

That's a change I've made recently.

So I used to do 30-minute blocks, but now I block out an hour because I want to spend time before and after with the guests, because that's where the value is.

So do you ever take time to have coffee or dinner with your guests?

Yeah, so I just made that change too.

Once or twice a week, I'll go out to dinner with the guests too.

I would love to take you out to dinner.

Yeah, next time we will.

No, it's so, so good.

All right.

So post a lot of content.

Maybe not quite as much as you're posting.

Yeah, probably not six a day, but aim for one a day to start and see if you can handle that.

Have really good editors.

My editors are all in the US.

I don't cheap out on other countries because there's a language barrier when they're clipping up the content and they won't catch on to certain things that will go viral.

Do you post at the exact same time every day?

There's peak hours.

Everyone's different.

You can look at your analytics.

Mine are in the morning.

On YouTube is the best time and on Instagram it's the afternoon.

And if you're posting every day, does that reduce the number of views they get?

Yeah, but it's worth it because once one video goes viral, it's not relevant off your followers.

90% of the views will come from non-followers, so I'm willing to take that chance.

So you're just throwing a lot of hooks out into the ocean and catching as many fish and not knowing which one's going to actually go viral.

I follow the trend, so politics is hot, like we mentioned earlier.

So I'm doing a lot of those

videos the next month until the election, and then we'll see what's next.

Okay, so going back to politics.

And

no,

how many interviews do you think you've had with people in the political arena?

About

30 right now, but I'm doing 20 next week at this Republican event.

Okay.

There'll be 50 soon.

50.

All right.

You guys want to know?

Like, I just want to know, like, we're not going to hold you to this.

From all your interviews and interactions, do you have a sense of where the election is going?

I mean, we're just having fun.

Yeah.

No one's really listening.

Okay.

This isn't being filmed, and it's not going to be edited and sent across the world, so don't worry about it.

And actually, it will be.

We know which way is Cali going.

We know which way.

Yeah, you don't have to worry about California.

Yeah, I think Trump's going to win, though.

Wow.

Very interesting.

Very interesting.

And that's just based off there's markets where you could place bets,

real money behind the bet.

So he's favored to win by 5% right now.

Yeah, it's funny.

Most people look at polls.

I also look at Vegas.

Yeah.

Numbers don't lie in Vegas.

Money is more honest than politics.

And so when you look where people are putting the money, you have a much clearer view of people's values.

That is really fascinating.

And from your interviews...

I didn't know we were going in this direction, but we both said we're going to go any direction we're going to go.

What do you think are like the really critical issues that people are concerned about?

Based off my interviews, probably the border,

the immigrants,

health care, always the abortion stuff as well,

and taxes a little bit.

But the border, I feel like, is the one, and the tariffs, I feel like people are talking about those a lot.

That's fascinating.

Now, tariffs, that could go both ways, right?

Because Trump has said he would create tariffs, and of course, we know Biden and Harris also have a lot of things.

I'm scared of this word because this is why I'm going viral right now.

The tariff word, people are destroying me.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Okay, when we say tariffs, we mean something different than whatever gets banned.

And

yeah, it's not that word.

No, not that word.

No, no,

you should never be banned for having a conversation.

Yeah, so I look at all the hate comments and I don't let it affect me, which is great because years ago I would have, but I'm at such a great place now where it doesn't really, you know, scare me or anything.

I'm still willing to have conversations.

That's actually a really good

question.

As you were growing and building a voice, was there a season where the negative comments were really getting to you?

Did you ever feel incredibly affected by the negativity and the trolls and the attacks you might get?

I was able to isolate myself pretty well because I have an 80-20 rule on the podcast.

So I talk 20% and the guest talks 80%.

So normally if there was hate, they would fall on the guest.

But since I jumped into politics, I am starting to get some hate.

But it's fine.

You know, politics is a very dividing thing.

So I'm okay with it.

I'm sure we will get some kind of feedback for this.

And when Aaron and I do the MindShift podcast, it's amazing what statement will create intense emotional reactions.

And I always find this fascinating because sometimes we'll say, people let me know how disappointed they are in me.

And I think, well, you weren't disappointed up to five minutes ago.

Like, I was was kind of like awesome to you up to like now.

But this one statement has disqualified every good thing I ever did before.

And that's one of the reasons I've had to like really in my own mind remind myself, don't let the people who don't know you, don't let their compliments make you arrogant.

And don't let their insults make you insecure.

Worry about the people who are close to you.

And if the people who know you are telling you you're a jerk, then you're a jerk.

And if the people who know you are telling you we trust you,

then you're trustworthy.

Those are the people that you really need to pay attention to.

Do you have like a small group of people in your life that you use as a sounding board even as you create these different podcasts and have these different conversations?

Yeah, very small.

I keep it on one hand.

And when I was living a fake persona, I tried to have as many friends as possible.

I thought that was what I should be doing in school and college and stuff.

And that's just not the right way to approach friendship.

So now I keep it on one hand.

Guys I could trust with my bank account, my life.

I know they'll be there for me no matter what.

Sean, I know that this

was

an unexpected event for you.

And it really happened very spontaneously because he didn't really remember.

Because, you know, as he was ushering me out of the room for the next podcast,

I took a moment and I said, Sean, we have an event called the Arena.

I would love for you to come as one of our guests.

And he said, sure.

I did.

Winston told me back there I remembered, but because I filmed so many episodes, I'm just

one of the things I've learned is that when you're around a person that's really unique, if you have an opportunity to invite them into your world, just take it.

All they can do is say no, and you'll be okay.

But I wanted to thank you that even though we only had those 30 minutes of encounters that you said yes and that you took the time to come out of your way and to be here with us in the arena, we're really, really grateful.

Can you guys thank Sean Calatron?