Instagram’s Hidden Tricks: Gain 1M Views Without Hashtags! | Devin Jatho DSH #572

Everything works.

The way that I look at it is, how can I give the most value possible and how can I positively reinforce someone to watch my video?

They look at me and they go, okay, this dude is a weirdly deep voice with a mop haircut, but at least he taught me something and that I can go use tomorrow.

The next time I see him, I'm probably going to listen to him again.

Wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe.

It helps a lot with the algorithm.

It helps us get bigger and better guests and it helps us grow the team.

Truly means a lot.

Thank you guys for supporting and here's the episode.

All right guys from Chattanooga Devin Jatho in the building my man.

How's it going?

It's doing good man.

Nice to be here.

Absolutely dude.

You've been going viral for a good amount of time now.

Good amount of time about a year now.

Wow.

So what was that first kind of viral video you had?

First kind of viral video I had was based on alt text.

You know what the alt text is?

On Instagram, right?

Yeah, yes, for the disable, it's a disability feature and you can use it for SEO.

Yeah, I saw that video.

I actually started doing that after.

Yeah, it's a good little hack.

You know all those hacks, bro.

I don't know how you found out about those hacks but your your videos are really informative i think that's why people like them that's what i try to do anything educational yeah because most people would charge for something like that but you're just dropping them kind of like hormosey right completely yeah i got the inspiration from yeah you were just at his event and you got to learn from him in person what was that like um it's definitely different than what i thought uh taught me that there's levels to the game it's nice being the poorest person in the room oh you were the poorest one No, but there's definitely people that had more money than me.

You can definitely tell.

I've been there before, too.

I've joined some masterminds where I'm definitely on the lower end of things.

It's nice.

It's inspiring.

It's different.

I mean, you got to kind of figure out your lane, right?

Yeah.

And then as well as I think the most valuable portion is looking at someone that makes a lot more money than you and looking at the person knowing that you're smarter than them.

Like, there's just some people that are just like, that guy can do it.

I can do it too.

Yeah,

they say there's a correlation, but

I've met some really smart people that don't have money and I've also met really rich people that aren't

that smart, but they just specialize in one certain thing and they just crush it with that.

You know what I mean?

100%.

You don't have to be like all around smart like everyone makes it seem like.

That's what I try to be.

Yeah.

I want to do content, nothing but content.

And that's your thing, man.

You generated over a billion views now for your clients.

Yeah.

That is insane.

So

which kind of videos really blow up from what you've seen?

I mean, everything works.

I mean, The Rock is not going to watch this podcast and go, okay, how can I learn how to get more views from Devin Jatho?

Everything works.

The way that I look at it is how can I give the most value possible and how can I positively reinforce someone to watch my video after they see me once?

They look at me and they go, okay, this dude is a weirdly deep voice voice with a mop haircut, but at least he taught me something and that I can go use tomorrow.

The next time I see him, I'm probably going to listen to him again.

That's just my goal.

Yeah, when I first saw you, I'm like, who is this, dude?

Like, he's got the fro, got like a deep voice, and he's like, you're like 18, right?

19, yeah.

19, damn, but you really know how to get views, especially on Instagram.

That's kind of your main one, right?

It's the only thing I care about.

You don't care about TikTok, YouTube?

I think Instagram is just easier to monetize.

Yeah.

More forms of contact.

Whenever you're at the bar, you don't go, well, I'm 19.

I'm not at the bar.

But whenever you're at the bar

and someone goes hey you never asked for the tick tock it's like hey man can I get you tick tock it's fucking weird yeah you can ask for the number

imagine asking for someone's tick tock people ask for snap though I heard which is kind of weird to me yeah that is weird well it depends on the age group yeah I mean I use snap in like middle school I don't know I'm surprised people still use it I hear people making a lot of money on snapchat actually the stories yeah David Dobrik and Bryce Hall making six seven figures a month yeah I don't touch snapchat at all so I wouldn't know much I don't get it I just got monetized on IG but it's actually not paying that well no and i get like tens millions of views but it's paying like pennies i've never even looked into it i just got it and i was pretty pumped but because youtube pays decent yeah youtube i'm making five 10k a month but i don't know instagram i guess because it's shorter videos shorter videos and then as well as uh they don't have as many forms of advertisement yeah how many times uh oh go ahead no you're good how many times a day are you posting right now on instagram like 0.2 like i'll yeah

around one a week and you think that's enough It depends on where you are.

If it was up to me, I'll do more than one a week.

But right now, it's just what we have to do with the voice and recording and all that kind of stuff for the course.

But typically, I like to be around once every other day and once a day.

Yeah.

I try to do three a day, which is nuts.

Yeah.

Pineda does six a day.

Yeah, he does.

I just got it from his podcast.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

I want to do that, but it's a lot of work, dude.

It's a lot of work.

And then, as well as I think at a certain point, quantity will lower quality.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And your quality is super high.

How long does it take you to make one video?

For me to make one video, it it takes me around two hours, but the whole editor's sitting over there, he spends around 12 to 16.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

So in total, it's 14.

Well, then you have the content audiation and all this good stuff, the SEO for the video.

It takes a lot longer than people think.

That's insane.

When it comes to the idea part, is that just you or do you got a team?

I mean, we have a team to do it for clients, but I don't necessarily use it.

I always want to do my shit.

I don't like this stuff from other people.

Yeah.

And where do you draw inspiration from?

Do you go on your For You page and just watch videos?

At the very beginning, I definitely think that that's something that you should be doing.

Now it's just, this sounds cool.

I just did it for this guy.

Let's talk about this.

Yeah, that's just what I do.

I just saw Mr.

Beast talk exactly like that about YouTube.

He used to go on YouTube, but now he's at the point where it's like a gut feeling almost.

Yeah.

Same thing.

Yeah, because you get so good at it, right?

Do it so many times.

So do you have an agency that manages all these clients?

So we used to.

And then after a while, after enough shit, we kind of dropped it off because agency model sucks.

It's terrible.

Especially with content because there's seven deliverables per week, basically one video per week.

I mean, per day per week still 20 videos a month and doing that at scale for around 20 clients is 200 and some odd videos

just takes a lot of time a lot of headache and then as well as you're also responsible for performance.

It's just not the best model in the world.

Yeah, dude, I've never had a good experience with an agency as a consumer also.

Just like the incentives don't feel aligned.

Yeah, I could see that.

I definitely for me, my biggest issue was I want to perfect everything.

So it's just like way too much time and the incentives definitely weren't aligned.

You pay me and I want to keep you forever.

Yeah.

I don't want you to be able to go build your own team and build off away from me.

Like that's just not the incentive.

Right.

Yeah.

From I see it from your point of view as well.

But with in terms of like marketing agencies, they want a percentage of your ad spend plus they want a retainer.

Yeah.

So it's just like you're getting hit twice.

Right.

And it's like, dude, sometimes the campaigns aren't even profitable and they're still making a bag off you.

Yeah.

And they don't care.

They don't care.

Yeah.

But it's interesting.

There's a shift because Amon Godzi, he got rid of his agency too, right?

And a couple other people.

So it seems like there's a new wave.

Well, I think the people that teach other people how to make money, like they don't make money doing the thing anymore.

So it's just like, I don't want to listen to you because I bought Yuman's, I bought Yamon's course at the beginning.

Like he was my inspiration at the age of 15, 16.

It was bad,

but.

It was that bad?

I mean, like, it was more so him talking about himself because that's how he got rich in the first place.

Well, not how he got rich in the first place, but how he continued to get rich is talking about himself and his accomplishments.

Right.

So I just kind of carried over to the course in itself.

And it's just like, you didn't really tell me to do anything.

I don't have a sales pitch, sales script i don't know what to do it wasn't tactical it was more just more personal

here's my mindset um here's what it's done for me go do it and i don't they didn't really tell you what to do interesting and he's launched a lot of offers it's kind of hard to i feel like maintain quality when you're launching a new offer every couple months i'm having i'm having a rough time with just the one yeah so imagine doing that three times a year yeah i mean it's nuts i get his youtube ads his ads are amazing though yeah i'm not gonna knock him on the the ad side of things i mean i'll get his ad and watch the whole ad, which is rare for me.

You know what I mean?

I feel like people don't put enough money into the production side of their business.

Yeah, he definitely does that very well.

Yeah.

I mean, he's doing tens of millions on the info side.

And you mentioned you're doing a course now too, right?

Yeah, it's group coaching program.

Okay.

So walk me through that model.

So right now it's script coaching program, media mastery.

Basically, just everything.

standard, weekly Q ⁇ A calls, that kind of thing.

But the thing that we focus on is video reviews.

So every single 72 hours, someone can upload a video to me or another social media coach and we'll break it down and give it back to you so that way you kind of have an infinite feedback loop that's pretty useful so they can upload a clip they made and you'll give feedback within three days yeah and then of course you obviously have the course to abide by and stuff like that but that that's probably like the main thing yeah if someone wanted to learn just making viral videos how long would would that take you think

it depends on the person like if you had them coaching if i had them coaching i mean it also depends on the niche like for example if you are a roofer it's gonna be a little bit more difficult if you're a make money online coach right so i think it just depends on the niche um um then depends on the person as well if someone's 6'7 270 and is a fitness coach it's a little bit easier personality yeah what can you borrow the interest off of yeah i try hard not to look like everyone else you know yeah try to grow out the fro a bit my height helps i think just my story helps if you're just the same as everyone i mean it's hard to get through right so many clips i mean so many freaking podcasts these days Podcasts are rough.

And the way I look at it, if you want to have a video that is actually well performing, it needs to be intentional.

Yeah.

I mean, you probably get offered to go on so many podcasts, right?

Yeah, it's not something I like enjoying.

Yeah.

Why don't you like them?

Just the nature of how I typically create.

I like to be able to script everything out, make sure everything looks good.

Am I going to get this concise since everyone can understand?

Am I going to stutter?

If I do stutter, David, cut it out.

Yeah.

It's just a much different vibe.

So you're a planner.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

It took me a bit to get used to podcasting, but I don't film them live, luckily, because that is way too unpredictable for me.

I mean, dude, because you don't know what people are going to say.

Right.

You can get banned if they say the wrong thing.

So I have like some time to edit for sure.

But honestly, with pods, I don't really edit much out.

Yeah.

I mean, for your short form videos, how do you go about that?

So I typically do about five clips per episode, and I'll just remember what kind of moments of the episode were viral, tell my editors to chop that up, and then maybe add some B-roll, add some text.

I don't go as hard as you.

I mean, you spend two hours on a clip.

I just pay someone to do that.

I don't know how long they're spending on each, but you do all the animations and the music.

It's pretty nuts, bro.

Yeah, it works that well.

Yeah, what's the most views you've gotten on one clip?

On one video, I think it was like 6.8 million views.

Damn.

Yeah.

And which one was that?

The subtitles?

No, that was hashtags are dead.

I saw that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You basically said they don't work anymore and there's other ways to get views, right?

Yeah, they are, quote unquote, it's outdated and the other ways to get views.

I mean, realistically,

I look at that now and it's just like, none of that stuff really matters.

I think the incentive of the platform is what you should be optimizing for, not for the platforms,

not for how the platform is optimizing for their incentive.

incentive since incentives to the platform is always to keep people on their platform for longer because they make more money doing that through advertisement that's interesting i so i still use them you think it's not even worth it i mean i definitely think that they could matter but it's not something i'm going to look at and think okay i'm not going to spend too much time on it basically i think a good video is a good video and if a good video and a good video will be soon and you said what matters most is actually the hook which i agree with the first three seconds right yeah i mean if they don't watch the hook they don't watch anything else so i think i can agree with that but i don't think it's as important as people put as much emphasis onto it because if after the hook it sucks, then who cares?

So they just need to have a good video all around, right?

Yeah, that makes sense.

I really,

the hook is like, because I see myself scrolling, and I'm like, within two seconds, if it's not interesting, I'm out.

Yeah, if you can't see yourself actually using the video, or one thing I look at is how viewer depictable is a video.

So can I see myself putting this to use?

If not, then I can no longer value, I can no longer look at the video as quote unquote valuable.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, I've strategically like changed all my hooks because I've tested the same clip, but like with like a different hook and it literally 10xes the views.

Yeah.

Have you heard of a guy named Ryan McGinn?

No.

Oh wait, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So he does a bunch of the well he used to do a bunch of the big people like Carmosian people like those Grant Cardone, Bradley, and Twin thing that he talked about.

I don't know what he calls it, but I call it the multivariate hook.

So it's just literally recording the same exact video, but changing out the hook and recording three different hooks and then posting all three of those videos with the same exact, basically the same exact video with three different hooks to the TikTok.

And then from there, testing which one works the the best and deleting the other two after 24 hours.

Wow.

That sounds like a lot of work though.

I mean for the editor, yes.

Yeah,

for you.

I mean, it's just recording two other hooks.

Yeah, if you just outsource it, yeah.

He actually came on the podcast.

That's funny.

Video length.

Does that matter?

There's a lot of debate about this.

As short as possible.

Whether it's 20 seconds or 20 minutes.

It doesn't matter.

But something that should not be in the video, take it out.

So that goes for long form and short form, you're saying?

I mean, it could go for

short form as well.

I mean, TikTok extended their period to 30 minutes, I believe it is now.

Yeah, it's long now.

And now you can make it to where it's horizontal.

Oh, I didn't know that.

That came out, like, probably two weeks ago.

What?

Yeah.

I wonder if those are getting views.

Uh, they have like this little incentive to where it should it says that you get more views whenever you post horizontal content over this.

Damn, yeah.

Okay, I got to test that out then.

Yeah, but who the hell is scrolling their phone like horizontally?

You're a freak if you're doing that, bro.

Yeah.

Are you using any AI yet?

Uh,

for my personal creation, no.

I would say for a lot of the other sides, like for example, the editing and content audiation, I'm sure they use different AI tools.

But for me,

I mean, I try GPT to think of different synonyms to words, but other than that, I don't really think that it could help me all that much.

Yeah, I've tried Opus.

I've tried Munch.

There's a few others.

I feel like it's basic.

I don't think it's like the final video.

I don't think that it can replicate creativity at this current moment.

Yeah.

It just feels very generic.

Like, I could tell when I'm on my feed and someone uses that.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, there's just subtitles and a video.

Yeah.

I feel like these days you need a little little bit more to stand out.

I think you need a lot more to stand out.

Yeah.

So are you focusing mainly on IG?

Like is that the plan?

You don't even have plans for YouTube or anything?

YouTube, actually, we're working on a video right now.

Hopefully we can get that out within the next week.

YouTube is definitely something to want to move into, but Instagram is just where we make the most money.

And you're basically, because I see, I saw your past post, you're telling people to comment a certain word.

Yeah.

So do you have an AI that will DM them from there?

So it's called MiniChat.

It's a tool that is actually partnered with Meta.

So it's completely safety used.

We use MiniChat pretty frequently now.

And what's the goal with having them comment?

Just funnel them into your group coaching?

Yeah, it changes per video.

Like, for example, some videos I have the incentive of, okay, well, this aligns with my product, so let's just go ahead and push them towards it.

But typically, it's just I want to give as many free things as possible to build up the goodwill.

And at a certain point, it's just like, if they have money, cool, I want to deliver this process so I can pay Devin.

I need to start looking into that because some of my clips get thousands of comments.

So imagine if I could collect them in a many chat because that's basically like an email list you could blast them whenever it 100 well okay it's a little bit different a little bit different than email list but i will grab an email within mini chat okay hey deme for this keyword you want to red me for this keyword i'll hey man you want this x y and z cool uh just give me your email real quick and then from that i'll take their email from the mini chat smart yeah and those newsletters are are popping off these days yeah and then as well as you also create a chat with them so it's much easier to begin a conversation that's already from someone that's already created a conversation with you so you can message them them and not feel slimy or salesy yeah i like that it feels natural right yeah yeah because sometimes you message me yeah sometimes you get messages and you're like that's obviously like copy and paste like i get tons of those especially for video short form video editors yeah dude i get like 10 of those a day but then if you message me i can go hey man i see that you're interested into this free product you want more of x y and z and it's supposed to be more natural natural yeah that's the trick man because if you make it seem like it's robotic people won't buy 100 yeah um i saw you on another show saying you're doing over 30k a month it was was a year ago.

Are you still doing those numbers?

We went up a little bit since then.

All right.

Yeah.

Care to disclose it?

It depends on the month.

Anywhere from 100 to 150.

Damn.

Congrats, man.

5X in a year.

Yeah.

What do you think were the biggest things that put you in that spot to scale that quick?

Going into the group coaching, I would say the biggest issue that we've had whenever it comes to just revenue is just putting focus on the agency because the agency takes up so much of my time.

So much of my time.

So shifting.

Yeah, 100%.

Shifting from trying to do two things at once to only doing one thing

yeah that makes sense man wow 100k a month at 19 years old you're still out in chattanooga man yeah when are you getting out to a major city well right now we're in spain to record the courses we're there for a couple months why'd you choose spain why do you choose spain because the editor lives in spain damn yeah you're really taking care of that guy flying out the whole team there yeah um it was dope and then as well as you can get like a sick place for not as expensive it was still pretty expensive but yeah better than you can get for example here in vegas vegas is yeah vegas has gotten expensive actually when I first moved here it was good but everyone came from LA and shit so but man Spain I haven't been out there that must be a totally different culture and lifestyle it's not as different as I thought it was gonna be I mean it's just pretty normal um you can't understand anything and other than that it's don't go for the food the food's not good some people would well David will say otherwise but uh don't go for a steak i'll put it that way don't go for a steak oh because europe's always one degree lower, right?

So if you order medium rare there, it's actually like rare.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I made that mistake in, I think I was in Greece or some.

Yeah, no, shit came out pink.

I was like, damn, bro.

Yeah.

I was like, bro.

But I mean, is that the plan?

Like, stay in Spain?

No, no, no.

That was just for them to record the course.

I don't really know where I want to go yet.

I'm 19.

I want to go.

explore places and then from that make a decision.

Dude, can't even drink yet.

You are a young fella, man.

Making that money at 19.

So do you even hang out with people your age?

No, yeah, I had that issue too.

Yeah, because no one can relate that age.

No one can relate.

Yeah, so you hang out with people in their 20s, 30s.

20s, 30s.

I don't really hang out with people in general.

I have work to do.

I love that.

So, you're an introvert?

I wouldn't say that,

but I would say I enjoy my quality time.

I enjoy work.

Okay.

Well, that's kind of what an introvert is.

Fair enough.

Yeah.

What did your parents think of this endeavor?

Because you didn't go to college, right?

No, no.

Fuck college.

Parents were scared at the beginning, you you know?

Yeah.

Kid was flunking out all through high school.

You flunked out?

Yeah.

Damn.

Yeah.

So definitely was a little bit weary about everything, but then it worked out and they began to adopt the ideology.

Still don't really understand what the fuck's going on.

Yeah.

They were cool about it.

Damn.

So how long did it take when you set your mind to this?

Did it take like a year, two years before you started making good money?

Before I started making good money, I started, okay.

I guess you could say I started around 13.

Damn.

The only way that I I knew to make money at 13 was through gaming.

So we did what were called wagers on Fortnite.

Yeah.

I got $5.

You got $5.

Let's play for the 10.

And that's how I made money at the beginning.

I would say my first 10K month came in whenever I was around 17 or 18.

Just from wagers?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

That came from Fortnite Cheats.

Fortnite Cheats.

Plus, you sold hacks.

Yeah.

You were that good at selling aimbot to Jarvis and stuff.

Damn, bro.

I used to, I still play Fortnite.

I just started.

Yeah.

I took five years off.

I'm playing now.

I just hit Unreal.

We can wager.

Nah, hell no.

Nah.

I don't play build.

I play no real.

Nah.

Okay, so you suck.

Nah.

I got a 4.2 KDR.

Okay.

Okay.

A little bit there.

Not too bad.

Yeah.

Nah,

those kids are sweats, bro.

You were that kid?

I was that kid.

Bro.

Did you play competitive?

Yeah, for a long time.

Damn.

Three years.

So you were really good.

I was pretty decent.

Were you signed?

To a couple of different places, yeah.

Geez.

So you went and played in like the World Cup and stuff?

No, no, I wasn't that good.

Okay.

I wasn't that good in that realm.

Wagers were completely different.

That was like purely increative.

Got it.

And how did you find kids to one-on-one for wagers for money?

There's a bunch of different things.

There's like websites and then as well as I owned a buy-in Discord.

So the issue is, let's say, for example, you have two 14-year-olds playing for $5.

First off, they don't have a lot of money.

Secondly, their egos are through the roof.

So it's like, what's the likelihood of me beating you, talking shit the whole way through the match, and then you paying me afterwards?

Yeah.

Pretty low.

Yeah.

So what we did is we built out a buy-in Discord.

So you had to pay to get into the Discord, but that's your skin in the game to not scam whenever you're in the Discord.

Got it.

So you spent spent 100 you're not gonna scam for five dollars that was the ideology behind it right so i created one of those discords and that's how i found wagers primarily that's cool so you you didn't put up the money up front and you had to just go on your word and pay them if you lost yeah uh well you can also do the do a middleman and that's how we also made money was just we had middlemans and we took five percent of the wager and basically hey sean is the middleman We two wager.

We give Sean our money first and then Sean will pay the winner.

Wow.

That's dope.

And you played on PC?

Yeah.

Yeah, I was that kid in high school.

No one else did it, bro.

Everyone was Xbox and PlayStation.

Yeah.

I was literally the only kid in my whole school.

3,000 kids.

Made you the best, though, didn't it?

Yeah.

Now everyone's switching over.

It's a superior platform.

Definitely.

Do you think Fortnite's the greatest shooter of all time?

I never played many games back then, man.

Oh, yeah.

Played Fortnite, Call of Duty.

Other than that, I never really played all that much.

I feel that.

Yeah, I think it's, I mean, the longevity of it is just so impressive.

Longevity is nice.

Yeah.

You don't play anymore, though?

No, I haven't played a video game in like two years.

years you think you'll ever play again um sometime um just not now you're just so locked in right now just want to get everything done you got an end goal because you're cash flowing heavy i mean this thing might be able to sell for big dollars one day end goal is to build the coolest thing possible with cool people do y'all have plans on exiting or no no i mean i think after you do this for like five years it's like okay fuck this this sucks yeah but the beginning is fun i'm building something and i think for right now only they can foresee it's just me building more

i love that what do you spend your money on because someone your age must be tempted to uh flex a little bit uh what do i spend my money on you do you know their brand represent no okay i buy a lot of represent it's a clothing company yeah um other than that just clothing um and work shit i like to buy a lot of nice whenever it comes to work okay yeah so no no watches cars no watches no cars i got a key optima damn yeah what made you uh not want anything like that materialistic because at your age i feel like people are into that stuff right yeah um car and i'm always to the east end I mean, I just drive to the gym and then back.

And then as far as I'm not home much, like, I'm traveling right now, so there's no point for me to get in the car.

I'll watch, definitely coming in the future.

Okay.

Right now, it's just how can I get as much done as possible?

Damn.

How big's a team right now?

Team, including editors or excluding editors?

That's going to factor.

Right.

I guess including.

Ever since we dropped people from the agency, I think we're sitting at around 15.

Okay.

20.

Solid team, man, for your age.

I mean, how'd you even learn how to manage a team?

I still don't.

I love the honesty.

I mean, they don't teach out of school.

No, they don't.

And you said you flunked out.

So you literally straight ups.

I try to stay up all night and go to sleep in school.

That way I can get.

Wow.

Yeah.

You were that kid.

Yeah.

I know a few of those kids.

And now look at you, man.

Yeah.

Making more than, making the teacher's salary in a month.

It's pretty wild.

I mean, it just doesn't teach entrepreneurship.

And you probably felt so like disconnected from everyone there.

I would say definitely whenever I started getting more into it, I was like, I love that, man.

Well, what are you working on in the future, and where can people find you?

I'm working on the future, just building a new mastery, aiming for 500 members this year.

And people can find me primarily on Instagram.

Devin Jot though.

Boom.

We'll link it below.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, thanks for watching, guys, as always.

See you next time.