The Padlock Armory: Shocking Truths From the Outlaw Biker War | George Christie DSH #532

A big war erupted.

I think 14 or 15 deaths.

Banditos were very strong here in the United States.

I went over there to find out what the problem was and I found out something very interesting.

On the outskirts of town, they have an armory to equip the local militia.

Wow.

And the only thing protecting those armories from entry is a padlock.

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And here's the episode.

All right, guys, we got George Christie here, the longest-serving president ever of Hells Angels.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Pleasure to be here.

35 years.

Yeah, 35 years in Ventura.

And I was also a leader in Los Angeles.

In the 70s, I was a leader of the Los Angeles Hells Angels.

And in the late 70s I kind of handpicked a crew of guys and moved up to Ventura, which was my hometown.

I was born there, raised there.

I wanted to go back there.

Was that one of the biggest chapters in terms of member count?

Well,

you know, we were up to 25 guys and you know you say 25 guys.

A lot of the audience might go 25 guys, that's not very many, but

for a Hells Angel charter, it's a lot of guys.

And you know, what you have to understand is you got 25 members and then they may have 20 friends that become uh

you know they develop a relationship within that charter so it you know it's it's staggered out yeah and you had to get approval to start your own charter from the i did uh i uh

sort of got approval.

I grabbed the guys, moved up there and said, this is what we're doing.

And I did get some resistance, but I found you know through my tenure in the club if you were determined to do something and you had the balls to do it yeah you could get away with it so was there a lot of infighting within the hells angels well initially no we were too busy

fighting other clubs you know we had a when I got in the club

everything

was pretty peaceful on the west coast.

There was a conflict in the east with a club called the Outlaws.

And in fact,

I think Mike Nichols, the director, just has a movie premiering this month.

I don't know if you've heard about it, called The Bike Riders.

And it's about the Outlaws.

Certainly they don't use their patch, but it was a book by,

I can't remember the guy's name, but he was an outlaw.

And they took a book of his

photographs.

and created this movie out of it.

And

Tim Harding, I think is his name,

He's a pretty prominent actor and a good actor.

And a few other people in it I'm not familiar with.

But I have a feeling it's going to be a decent movie.

Yeah.

How accurate are these movies and shows about these biker gangs, you think?

Well, some of them are not accurate at all.

You know, Sons of Anarchy

was

very dramatic.

I mean, these guys killed six or seven guys every episode.

I mean, you know, you start killing people like that, you know, you'll be classified as serial killers.

You'll probably have so much heat from the police on you, it's just not feasible.

Yeah.

And

the show was very popular.

I think it had six, seven seasons.

Super popular.

Yeah.

People would not stop talking about that show years ago.

Yeah.

You know, in 2011, I got indicted.

And during the jury of Vaudeir, one of the questions I made up was and asked, the judge allowed me to ask the jurors

was, do you watch Sons of Anarchy?

Really?

Yeah, and

the next question, if they said, yes, we do watch Sons of Anarchy, the next question was, do you believe

what you're seeing in each episode?

And the leaders have full knowledge and responsibility for the actions of the members.

Because that was the dilemma I was in.

Two of my members went rogue and firebombed some tattoo shops that sprung up in town.

And this is in the city of Ventura.

And they

took it upon themselves to firebomb them.

It was kind of a cavalier

behavior and not very professional because they got caught.

So I'm kind of being a smartass, but there's some truth in what I'm saying as well.

Yeah.

And

I

had

actually

told people in an official meeting, leave the tattoo shops alone.

I think this is a setup.

One of them were working with the FBI, and

they had complete camera systems around there.

Wow.

And that's how they busted these guys.

They saw them

actually firebombing the buildings.

Dang, and when was this?

They had cameras.

This was, yeah, the event took place in 2007.

My indictment came in 2011.

Oh, they took their time with all this.

They did take their time.

And, you know,

I beat the FBI in 1986.

I went to trial for murder for hire.

They said I ordered somebody's murder.

And so I had

that charge.

In addition, I had a conspiracy charge.

In 1986, it's the first time I'd ever been in jail.

Spent a year in federal prison awaiting the trial to come up.

And,

you know, the dynamics of everything had changed.

It just, the whole court system and whatnot.

How did it change?

Well, you know,

I fought my case and I beat it in 1986.

And I think that

I had a tenure, like you said, a long tenure in the Hells Angels as a leader.

And they just had a dossier on me of alleged things, suspected things.

And, you know, they have a 98% conviction rate.

Yeah.

You know, they take you to trial, they're going to get you.

I mean, you know, look what certainly wasn't a federal case, but, you know, look what happened to former President Trump yesterday.

Right.

I mean, you know, 34 counts.

He's a felon now.

That's crazy.

Like myself.

He can't run for president anymore.

No, he can.

Oh, he can?

He can run for president.

It's interesting.

I was in a conversation with my wife, Beverly, and with my youngest son, Finn.

And that provision is not in the Constitution.

And, you know,

why was it left out?

You know, perhaps because the founding fathers of this country were actually outlaws.

And, you know, if they had lost the

Revolutionary War, they all would have been tried and hung.

Wow.

There's no doubt about it.

I mean, you know, they went against King George.

And

maybe that's why that provision is not in there.

But he can run for president again, and he has a very good chance of winning.

I think he'll win this time.

He very well may.

Yeah.

And I know you said on Michael's show you weren't a fan of him.

No, I'm not a big fan of Trump, but I don't like

him being persecuted and prosecuted selectively.

I think that, you know, politics, that's standard practice, what he did.

I mean, you know, he's running for an office, highest office in the land.

Why would he want the fact that there was infidelity in his marriage to become part of the

political process?

It's nobody's business as far as I'm concerned.

It's his business.

You know, I don't like Trump, but I don't like Biden either.

Pick your poison, right?

Perhaps I should run.

You might have to, man.

These days, what are you up to, man?

You feeling good?

Well, yeah, I'm doing real good.

I'm

writing

another book.

I've got three books out.

I'm writing another book.

I did a stage play.

I actually did a stage play here in Las Vegas in 2018.

Wow.

Two hours.

I helped write it with another guy.

So I went across the country doing that, and

I got one of my books optioned.

I went to Spain for three years.

And of course, COVID came, and the production just halted.

So

I kind of languished over there trying to decide what I was going to do.

And

I came back in 2022, I think.

I left in 2019.

I came back in 2022, and

I did a TV show for the Danish

network over there

on

European HBO now, and the rise and fall of the Danish Hells Angels.

And it's about

the bike war in Scandinavia.

I don't know if you're even familiar with it.

No, I didn't know about that war.

Horrendous bike war

in

the

started, the first one was in the late 70s, early 80s.

It ended,

and then

it sprung up again in the

82 or 83, no, 92 or 93.

The Hells Angels

were

taking

exception with a bike club called the Banditos.

The Bandidos were recruiting people that were known enemies of the Hells Angels in the Scandinavian countries.

Wow.

So a big war erupted.

I think, you know,

14 or 15 deaths.

92 people got wounded.

Jeez.

I mean, it was hot and heavy.

They were shooting it out

in the

international airport.

Wow, in the airport.

Shoot out at the airport.

Holy crap.

One guy got killed and another guy was wounded.

And

everybody

seemed very well armed.

I took a plane over there.

I went to Amsterdam to try to find out what was transpiring because I didn't want it bleeding over into the United.

Not I'm so much a peacenick.

I just, you know, I had self-serving reasons.

I didn't want it bleeding over into the United States

because the Banditos were very strong here in the United States.

They were what the FBI considers one of the big four.

You've got the Hells Angels, the Banditos, the Outlaws, and

the Mongols

and the Pagans.

You know, it's kind of gotten a little bit bigger.

But I went over there to find out what the problem was, and I found out something very interesting.

I was trying to figure out how are these guys getting so well equipped because

guns aren't real popular in the European countries.

They have, like, seems that they have strict rules and whatnot.

And each town in these Scandinavian countries on the outskirts of town, they have an armory

to equip the local militia.

Wow.

And the only thing protecting those armories from entry is a padlock.

So people were cutting the locks, going in, getting the rockets, the machine guns, the grenades, the plastics and whatnot.

And, you know, after the shootout, the banditos retaliated and shot some rockets into one of the Hells Angel clubhouses.

Jeez.

I mean, it was really, really hot and heavy.

It took several years to

reach a peace.

The

Scandinavian government petitioned our government to allow a Hells Angel who had a murder conviction come to the United States.

And in addition, they petitioned to have one of the bandito leaders who was also a felon.

I don't know what his crime was, but he came as well.

They got special visas

at the request of the Scandinavian government.

The U.S.

government usually won't let felons into this country, but they petitioned them, they got permission, and we had a big peace talk in Spokane, Washington.

We actually had a number that if any law enforcement personnel interfered, that

they were

to call this number that we had.

And they would be told to stand down

to allow us to negotiate this.

We, you know, had a big meeting, all-day-long meeting.

Blondie and Jim, Blondie's a Hells Angel, probably the most powerful Hells Angel in Europe at the time, and a gentleman named Jim from the Banditos.

He was his equal.

He,

along with Blondie, flew back to Europe and

they

had a televised peace.

Holy crap.

They televised the meeting.

They televised the peace,

you know, signing the peace treaty and shaking hands.

The politicians were there and whatnot.

But there's a great documentary.

It's six or eight episodes.

I can't remember how many episodes, but it's a Danish production.

It's on

Get It On Roku, I think.

Yeah, I got to check that out.

Yeah, check it out.

It's the Rise and Fall of the Hells Angels.

Did that peace agreement end up being honored by both sides?

Yeah, you know, there's been some

conflicts.

When I was in

Spain,

I partied with the banditas a couple of times.

I never parted with the Hells Angels because I'm at odds with them now because of my departure from the club.

But I did see them and

just had a cordial nod.

But

it's still holding.

I mean, there are flare-ups here and there, but

like

any piece of cord,

problems always arise.

Yeah, I know it took you two years to decide to leave the Hells Angels.

It was a big decision for you.

Yeah, it was.

I had

worked

really hard on pulling all the clubs together.

At one time,

we had a moratorium on the violence with

the outlaws, the Banditos,

the Mongols.

The only club that really didn't participate in it was the Pagans, kind of longtime arch enemies of the Hells Angels.

They're on the, from your area, I believe.

Oh, Jersey?

Philadelphia, New Jersey.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Very strong in that area.

But I just,

you know,

I'd went to the meeting.

I'd reached a point in time when I felt that we had become the people we rebelled against.

And when I got in the club, you know, I stepped into that world in 1966.

And it was kind of a free-thinking culture.

It was very esoteric, you know, very small at the time.

But, you know, maybe attribute part of it to Sons of Anarchy's popularity.

I mean, it's everywhere now.

It's all over the world.

You know, people trying to emulate the outlaw lifestyle.

And I'm not sure they understand really what it was all about initially.

It was initially about

live and let live type culture, society.

And

as things progressed,

you know, it was a pretty easy live until the late 70s, 1977 is when all kind of hell broke loose on the west coast.

We got into it with

the Los Angeles Hells Angels, got into it with the Los Angeles Mongols.

And, you know, that battle still rages.

I'm not sure it'll ever be.

It still goes on right now?

It still goes on, right?

Holy crap.

It's 40 years.

It's been 40 years.

Or even 50, right?

Going on 50 now.

Who's counting?

Yeah.

That's insane.

Yeah, it is insane.

And, you know, it's, I,

you know,

the outlaw bike world has become a reflection of society.

And it mirrors a lot of the things society is doing.

And

I,

you know, don't know what the future holds in store.

I'm not even sure what the future holds in store for our country.

You know, it seems to be political chaos right now.

Right.

Well, it seems like the mafia taking a step back.

Everyone's getting arrested.

I mean, sure, yeah.

I mean.

Is it similar with the gang, the motorcycle stuff?

Well, you know,

in 1978, they tried to use the racketeering

charge against the Hells Angels in the Bay Area up in San Francisco, Oakland, and they were not successful.

They had two hung juries, and

ultimately, the young prosecutor

who later went after Trump, what the heck's his name?

I can't think of his name.

I know who you're talking about.

Mo.

I can't think of his name.

I guess I'm getting old.

It was a while ago.

Yeah.

But

it didn't work on us.

The jury didn't buy it.

You know, they came at us later.

There was the feds again about three years later with

Operation Rough Rider that started in New York City.

They targeted a gentleman back there who was the leader of the New York City Hells Angel, Sandy Alexander.

And, you know,

got a lot of guys convicted.

Was that a RICO?

Well, it wasn't really RICO.

It was

they had failed

in the Bay Area case, so they went after them individually.

They were federal charges, but they weren't RICO charges.

And they got several convictions.

Wow.

So that made you guys kind of quiet down a bit.

Well, I think it

not only makes you quiet down, it also educates you.

And

I guess if

you have that type of scrutiny,

you either straighten up or become a better criminal.

My position's always been the Hells Angels, along with other outlaw-by-clubs, are not criminal organizations.

They're organizations that have criminals in them.

And, you know, like the Senate does, and House of Representatives.

doctors, lawyers, whoever it may be.

Every industry.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Even podcasts.

Yeah, probably some criminal podcasters.

What was the number one reason you saw people joining?

Was it for the money?

Was it for a brotherhood?

I think initially it was for the love of motorcycles and brotherhood.

And that's something that

seems to have gone by the wayside.

And, you know, it's interesting you bring that up.

I just did an eight-part show for A ⁇ E called The Secrets of the Hells Angels.

All they focus on is criminal activity.

They never talk about motorcycles.

They never talk about brotherhood.

They never talk about what the initial intent was, which you have to understand, the whole outlaw bike culture was birthed after World War II.

These guys came back from the European theater and the Pacific theater, probably suffering from undiagnosed PTSD, and they kind of probably lost direction in what they were doing.

They started buying motorcycles, riding motorcycles, and all these little small

esoteric clubs started popping up around Southern California.

Probably the same on the East Coast.

You know, I'm speaking for the West Coast because that's where I was from.

And that's what I watched even as a young child in the 50s.

You know, I would see outlaw bikers occasionally.

And, you know, that's what first interested me in that whole lifestyle.

It was very romantic looking and, you know, very powerful looking.

My first experience seemed like it really pissed off the citizens.

Yeah.

And so I got a kind of a kickoff.

What'd you do?

Well, you know, I'm standing on a corner with my father

and

probably 1955, 56.

I'm nine years old, maybe 10 years old.

I don't know.

And some guy comes up on a chopper, you know, chopped Harley.

And, you know, he's got the whole cutoff vest and he's got

you know, greasy Levi's, motorcycle boots, riding a Harley with high bars on it.

And everything, time seemed to stop.

Everybody seemed to focus on him.

And I

really identified with him.

And, you know, when he took off out of that signal, the guy I was talking to spit on the ground.

And he looked at me and my father, and he said, that's your America.

And I thought to myself, yeah, that's my America.

Wow.

And so it was really an impression on me.

Yeah, so that was a goal to join for you for a while.

Yeah, for 10 years.

And, you know, that was, like I said in the mid 50s 1966 I buy my first motorcycle bought the whole motorcycle for 200 or 250 bucks

and I mean you can't even get a bike service nowadays for that price.

You can't even buy a bicycle for 250 these days.

Not a good one.

No, that's crazy.

Times have changed man.

Yeah, it sounds like it was really pure back then.

It was, and that's what attracted me to it.

And I think that's one of the reasons I stepped out of it.

But, you know, I still continue to live that lifestyle.

You know, I do it through my own

writings, television appearances.

I have my own podcast.

I, you know,

I do podcasts for other people.

As you said, you saw me on Michael Frenchy's podcast.

Michael's a good guy.

You know,

he would be a great one to come to me.

That'd be good.

I saw you on Vlad, too.

Oh, did you?

Okay.

Yeah, I, you know, Michael and I were in prison together.

Really?

1986.

Wow, I didn't know that.

Yeah, we were in prison together on Terminal Island.

He was there,

I think he had stolen $10 billion of gas taxes from the federal government.

They were very mad at him.

But

it's where I first met a lot of,

you know,

I guess, suspected mafia members, I'll call them.

There was a lot in that prison?

There was a lot in that prison.

And when I came home, I

had a lot of their numbers in my, and this is updating myself now,

in my Rolodex.

You know, I had their numbers.

You roll the thing around.

You know what a Rolodex is?

I've heard of it.

I didn't know it was an actual thing, though.

Yeah, Rolodex is a card you put numbers in and you roll it and it flips through the numbers that you have.

And the cops raided my house.

They got a hold of my Rolodex, and there were a bunch of mob members in the Rolodex.

So

they

released it to the newspapers.

They told newspapers, hey, we raided Christie's house and we found a bunch of mob,

you know, suspected mob members, social clubs and personal numbers.

So the newspapers called me and asked me,

they said, you know, cops just raided your house.

How do you explain these?

you know, mafia-related phone numbers in your Rolodex.

And I said, well, you know, I'll tell you.

I said, I also have Sean Penn's number, Mickey Rorts, and Robert Carradine.

I said, but that doesn't make me an actor.

So that was my.

That's a good answer.

I gave him that little byline.

Yeah, that's funny.

Why'd they raid you?

You know what?

I don't really remember.

Wow.

They were raiding me all the time.

They didn't have to give a reason.

They just.

Well, a lot of times they seal it, you know, and,

you know, you petition to have the

know, warrant

unsealed, and they fight it because usually they're protecting an informant.

You know,

someone snitched.

Someone snitched, and they write it up in the report, submit it to the judge.

The judge goes, oh, yeah, you probably better go in and look around in their house.

And then they say, we want to protect our information.

So we want to seal the warrant.

And so they seal it, and then you petition them to unseal it, which they never do.

Same thing when I get letters from the Department of Justice that they were listening to my phone.

You'd have this dance with them.

You'd write them a letter, and they'd say, well, it's an ongoing investigation.

We can't

tell you exactly what's going on.

But

it's just a little game they play.

Absolutely.

Did you ever find out of an informant under you?

Well, yeah,

because I had several testify against me over the years.

I've been indicted three times.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am a multiple felon.

My first case in 1986, I beat.

But in 2001, I had a 59-count state racketeering charge.

And

the lawyers, including my daughter, all felt it was prudent.

to take a deal.

They offered me time-served.

I had spent a year in solitary confinement waiting for the case to come up.

And

they offered me time served and probation so it was almost like the offer uh you couldn't refuse right you know i mean it would have been uh

you know really stupid to uh fight it another three or four years in solitaire too that's tough yeah that and that's why they put me in there that was part of their bargaining chip it didn't work out the way they wanted the you know the 59 counts collapsed under their under its own weight

then like i said they came back again in 2011 that was an eight count indictment and i pled that one out as well because the last three counts, six, seven, and eight, were mandatory minimums.

Are you familiar with that term, mandatory?

You have to serve a minimum time, right?

Yeah, and the minimum time was life.

Holy crap.

So it doesn't get much to deal with.

So

my daughter,

it was pretty interesting.

Judge Wu, who we were talking about off-camera, was a

he was one of the most interesting judges I've ever been around.

He

basically told the government, you don't have a case here.

Wow.

And he said, you want

this to be your career case.

You want to put Mr.

Christie away, but you don't have the evidence.

And he goes,

I'm suggesting you entertain the thought of a plea bargain.

And I was sitting over at the defense table all smug, and then he turned to me and he pointed, and you, Mr.

Christie, he said, God only knows what you've gotten away with.

He goes, I think you better get down there and negotiate.

So they sent us to Judge Walter's courtroom, and

we negotiated a deal.

I wound up doing two years on house arrest, and then I went to Texas prison for a year.

Wow.

That's where you met Michael?

No, I met Michael in 1986.

This was in 2013, 2014.

I did a year

just outside of El Paso, Texas.

Was that a level four prison?

No, it was a minimum level, but it was run

like a medium-level prison.

All the old prisoners were being transferred there, guys in there.

I was almost 70

when I went to prison there.

So they ran it like a medium because there was a lot of white-collar criminals in there, and they had them mixed in with traditional type prison population guys.

And so there were people getting knifed.

Holy crap.

Yeah, it was pretty serious.

They had

wind flags

so they could tell what the wind was if they were going to shoot somebody.

Damn.

You know, it was run like a regular, you know, medium to high prison.

And was that before you left or after?

That was after I left.

Oh, so you were fearing if there were members in there too, probably.

Well, you know, it's interesting.

I did go there.

The banditos ran that prison for the outlaw bike community, and they were waiting for me when I got there.

Oh, yeah.

In a good way?

Well, the

guards told me, they go, you know, the banditos are waiting out there for you, George.

And they said, if you want, we can put you in protective custody.

And protective custody is the worst thing.

It's an insult.

It really means you lost your nerve.

Oh, man.

I probably would have taken it.

Ah, no, you wouldn't have.

Nah, you wouldn't have done it.

So I said, no, I'm going to go out in the yard.

I'm going to face these guys.

And they said, well, we don't know what's going to happen.

And I went out in the yard, and I happened to know the leader, and him and I wound up sharing a cell for a year.

And it was an interesting year.

I got deep insights in the politics of the banditos.

There were

a couple of Hell's Angel associates there, but nobody bothered me.

I walked the yard every day and did my own thing.

So you're at peace with all the former.

Well, I don't know.

I live in the same town as my former charter.

I see them on occasion.

You know, I live o an open life.

I would never hide from anyone.

But

I

probably not the most popular guy with my former brothers, but

it is what it is.

Well, a lot of them have moved on or passed away right now, right?

Well, yeah, I'm kind of the only one around from my era.

I could probably count the guys from my area on one hand, all the rest of them are dead.

So I've outlived all my brothers and I've outlived all my enemies, so to speak.

But

I've been home from prison.

I got home at the end of 2014, did three years on paper, like a parole probation type thing.

And

so I'm pretty much free.

everything on my own.

Nice.

You know,

recently got married again.

Congrats.

Thank you.

Yeah.

In fact, we're here celebrating our one-year anniversary.

Let's go.

Yeah, so it's cool.

Beverly and I,

you know, people think, well, you know,

they met so late in life, but Beverly and I have actually known each other since we were 12.

Holy crap.

So we've known each other a long time.

Beverly was also a witness in my first trial in 1986.

She was a character witness.

That's a real one right there.

Yeah, so I, you know, I was friends with her and her husband.

She was married for 57 57 years to a good friend of mine named Bob.

And she's an old school girl.

And

just right up my alley.

Nice.

So Bob passed away?

Bob passed away.

Beverly was single.

I was single.

And I said, hey, why don't we just go out together?

And I'm hoping we've got another 20, 25 years.

But I don't know, Bill.

She don't want to live that long.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm going for 100.

100 is a good number.

Yeah, I'm going for 100.

I saw Willie Nelson a couple of nights ago on TV, his 90th birthday.

I've known Willie for a long time.

And

he's getting up there, man, but he's still not too old to rock and roll.

He had Keith Richards on there.

Wow.

And it was a pretty cool little podcast.

I can see it, man.

You got a good routine.

You walk five miles every morning.

Every day.

That's 10,000 steps right there.

Yeah, it is 10,000 steps.

That's my goal for each day.

And I got a little circuit training program I do and some stretching and whatnot.

So, you know, I'm feeling good, but

I'm not the guy in charge.

Yeah.

You had a lot of stress in your earlier years.

I did, but, you know, I'm hoping that maybe

as I age more and more, it'll seem like nothing to me.

I mean, spend a year in solitary confinement.

There's some stress, my friend.

Oh, I bet.

Yeah, there's some stress.

You know, it's the oldest form of torture.

Not only was I doing solitary confinement, but they also had me on a disciplinary diet at times.

I pissed off some of the guards with my smart aleck remarks,

and they give me a disciplinary diet, which you're fed twice a day.

They feed you just enough calorie and carbs to sustain you.

And they feed you in the morning, then they feed you again at night.

You're starving.

You're starving all the time, and you don't have any commissary.

They take away all your commissary.

You know, I had 350 pieces of mail turned away.

Holy crap.

You couldn't even talk to anyone.

No, no, no phone privileges, no talking, no commissary privileges.

The only thing they leave you in that solitary confinement situation is a Bible.

They do leave you with a Bible.

Read the Bible a lot, and

I discovered

mankind has been punishing themselves for centuries.

Yeah, well, you know, you read the Bible, man.

It's all about

conflict, war,

duplicity, you know, a lot of sex in there.

Really?

In the Bible?

In the Bible.

I have no idea.

I've never read it.

Well, you should.

I don't live my life by it

daily, but I think it's a good foundation for people to take and pick and choose.

I'm a martial artist, and I always

lean towards the martial arts that

use the stuff that

could be used in an actual combat situation.

And the same thing with the Bible.

read the Bible,

take the things that are beneficial to you.

I see it as a metaphor for living.

You know, I don't, you know, I don't believe Jesus Christ is my personal Savior.

Hope you don't get any hate mail over that.

I don't think I will.

I've had on a lot of anti-religious people.

Okay.

But I, you know, I'm I'm not anti-religious.

I just have my own ideas about things.

And, you know, I try to get along with everybody.

Of course, you know, even for an old man, I got a I got a temper still.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that's part of my personality.

And I think that's what not only made me a good Hells Angel, I think it made me a good leader.

And I had a military background.

I was in the Marine Corps.

And, you know, I worked for the Department of Defense for 10 years until they found out I was a Hells Angel.

Once they found out I was a Hells Angel, they were going to strip me of my top secret security clearance.

Wow.

Because it was seen as a criminal organization.

Yeah, so I just, you know, walked away.

I resigned, is what I did, and became a full-time Hells Angel.

And,

you know, Sonny Barger was kind of running the club at the time.

Was this the L.A.

or the Ventura?

He was in Oakland.

Okay.

Sonny Barger, Oakland Hells Angel.

He became the face

kind of in the name and the voice of the Hells Angels in the 60s.

70s.

And then in the 80s, he got throat cancer.

And they cut out his larynx.

And

he

seemed to be hesitant to do interviews anymore.

He had a voice box and whatnot.

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So, a gentleman named Irish O'Farrell and myself,

he was a former Los Angeles Hells Angels as well.

We kind of wound up doing the publicity and statements and whatnot in the media.

Got it.

Kind of the power base kind of shifted.

Yeah, and you and Sonny had a lot of problems.

We did have a lot of problems.

We were at odds.

In fact, my latest book I've been working on, Crossing the Rubicon, deals with

my book, Exile on Front Street, kind of gives you an overview and a linear perception of what my life was in the Hells Angels.

But Crossing the Rubicon

gets very deep, and it kind of puts you in the room.

It's kind of like you're hanging out with me and Sonny, and you can see the conflicts.

I explain the conflicts at great length, and

I explain his political position, and

I explain my political position.

And my vision, and his vision were nothing alike.

As a leader, you got to have a vision.

If you're going to be a good leader, you have to have a vision for the direction you're going.

And you have to have people that support that vision.

If you don't have people supporting that vision,

your power as a leader dissipates.

And

we talked about Trump earlier.

That was one of the things I don't care for about Trump.

I feel like he divides people.

My position, a leader should unify people and get them all heading in the same direction.

And

that's my objection to him.

How do you feel like he divides people?

Well, I think you

watch him.

I think it speaks for itself.

You know, he's very divisive.

You know, he hates conflict.

He likes conflict.

You know, he's got a nickname for everybody, which I kind of think is funny.

Sleepy Joe Biden.

That's a pretty good one.

You know, I forget some of his other nicknames, but

he was a very popular TV personality, and

I think being a TV personality and a leader are not the same thing.

You certainly can become popular on TV, but I think part of his popularity was

his

conflicts he created

in drama.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know what?

Like I say, but people seem to like him.

I think there's a good chance he's going to be the leader again.

And

so, you know, I've

been under other leaders I didn't care for and survived.

Yeah, I try not to place too much importance on it.

I just control what I can, you know.

Yeah, and that, and that's what you have to do.

How old are you?

27.

So you're 27.

I just turned 77.

And,

you know, I've seen so many different things.

You know, I have a child that's

in her mid-50s.

And I have a child

who's 20.

Wow.

So, you know, I get a real view of how things have changed.

But it's almost like it's making this 360.

You know, my youngest son is

You know, just amazing.

He's a math whiz.

He was initially

diagnosed with autism.

Yeah.

Didn't speak until he was five,

late age of five.

And

I,

since I've been back, Beverly and I've kind of like together rediscovered him.

You know, he's,

you know, I was in Spain those years, and, you know, we kind of, I didn't get to communicate with him only by WhatsApp.

We would message every day.

And occasionally I would call.

I don't like talking on the phone, but occasionally I'd call him.

Because it's topped?

Just an old habit.

All habits die hard with me.

And

that's an interesting statement.

You hear yourself in a courtroom, and then the judge orders you to explain, what do you mean by that on that tape recorder?

You're very careful how you choose your words from that point on.

And, you know, it's

cops came out after me so many times.

And

I think that

that education I got

in the 80s from the FBI,

you know, watching me and ultimately indicting me

made me very aware and,

you know, made me, they made me a better Hells Angel.

They certainly made me a more cautious Hells Angel.

So, you know, I guess I owe it all to the feds.

Yeah.

I'm pretty cautious on the phone.

I heard someone tapping me one time.

so yeah, well, I'm sure I don't know.

You know, you start saying provocative things, you've got a big media platform, correct?

Yeah, look very big to me.

And I've had on controversial guests, too.

Yeah, so you know, that stuff drags along.

They tapped Tucker Carlson, sure.

Even his signal app, which is supposed to be anonymous, they got in that, you know.

Well, that wouldn't surprise me.

Well, I mean, look, Dennis Rodman went to China.

They crucified him.

Tucker Carlson went to Putin, you know, and that same group of people, I think, tried to persecute him

as well.

You know, I,

hey, I'd love to go talk to Putin.

I think it's important to hear from everyone.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you know, a good leader listens as much as he speaks.

And, you know, I've

created this amnesty with all these outlaw bike clubs.

You know, I petitioned the outlaws, the Mongols, the Banditos, even petitioned the pagans, didn't get too far with them.

But, you know,

when you live your life thinking that someone's going to possibly end it by violence, you know, you tried to get beyond that.

Yeah.

You know, like people ask me, are you having a good day?

Yeah, nobody's shooting at me.

I'm having a great day today.

Yeah, you've had a couple assassination attempts on your life.

That's correct.

You know, and, you know, Taco and I were negotiating.

We were.

I think we respected each other.

I even liked the guy.

Which club was Taco from?

He's from the Outlaws.

He was the international leader of the Outlaws.

And ultimately, the peace talks wore down.

He was getting pressure from the really violent guys in his club, and he put a murder contract on me.

Wow.

You know, the guys came to Ventura to assassinate me.

Was it real?

Yeah, it was real.

You can look it up online: Harry Bowman, you know,

versus the United States or whatnot.

But, you know, the police had a moral obligation to petition me and say, hey, you know, the outlaws were here.

They got arrested.

They had a gun.

They had a map.

They had pictures

and they were coming after you.

Wow.

You know,

Taco,

shortly after that, one of his guys turned on him and they got him for racketeering.

Really?

He did

life.

Damn.

Died in prison.

That's terrible.

In 2019, when I was in Spain, I got word that he had passed.

Him and I talked after he went to prison.

We talked after he put the murder contract on me.

Did you ask him about it?

I did ask him about it.

And

he said, well, you know, it was nothing personal, George.

I said, well, I never took it personal, Taco.

But I said, hey, I've got to ask you something.

And this is interesting.

I want to back up a little bit.

The reason he called me is he wanted my daughter to assist his lawyer in his appeal.

Oh, yeah.

He wanted out, you know.

And I thought, you know, why the hell not?

I don't want him in jail for anything that

had to do with me.

So you forgave him for that hit.

Yeah, sure.

And I asked him, I said, so you're doing

life on the racketeering.

Is that correct?

And he goes, that's right.

And I said,

you're doing 10 years for the murder plot against me?

And he goes, yeah, that's right.

And I said, well, what are you going to do first?

The 10 years of the life?

He told me to go to hell.

And we laughed.

And, you know, that was the last time I talked to him.

That was in 2003 or 4, maybe.

I had just beat that big racketeering state case.

And He wanted some insight into what my daughter did and how she did it.

And she works miracles.

Still a criminal lawyer, practices law.

Savage.

Yeah, I mean, walking in there, man, with your daughter, you know, like you know, this lawyer's not going to sell you.

Yeah.

That's awesome, man.

You raised her well.

Yeah, I'm really great, very proud of her.

And I'm proud of all my children.

Yeah.

And it sounds like you don't hold grudges to be able to forgive someone that attempted a murder on you.

No, you know, it's interesting.

The night before Sonny died, I got a phone call.

and that's how my new book starts off.

That's what inspired me to write this book.

And

the guy wrote, they weren't, nobody from the club was supposed to talk to me.

Sonny put a you know a rule out.

Nobody talks to Christie anymore.

But somebody called me and they said, you know, he said, you recognize my voice.

And I said, yeah.

And he goes, you know, Ralph doesn't have long Ralph is Sonny's real name.

That's what his friends used to call him.

And he said, if you're going to reconcile, he goes, you better do it quick.

And

I stayed up that night thinking about it.

And

I didn't reach out.

And I don't think it would have done any good if I did.

But he died in the morning.

Oh, wow.

And

he had been

at odds with him probably since the mid-80s.

You figure we were at odds with each other, but we were still both hell's angels.

And let me give you some insight into the kind of guy he is.

In 2005,

him and I were barely talking.

And were you president at this time?

I was still president, and he was

a member in Arizona.

He had moved to Arizona because of his health.

And I think there was other reasons as well that I'm going to explore in my book.

But

I was having my 30-year anniversary.

The big buzz at the party was, will Sonny Barger show up?

And so we were all partying,

heavy party and eating mushrooms and drinking,

going wild.

And

so there was word through the party, they go, Sonny's here.

And everybody kind of stopped because him and I were at odds.

And what you have to understand,

one of my guys got killed in Arizona.

And one of his guys got killed.

And the rumor in law enforcement was that we were killing each other's people.

Wow.

And, you know, I completely denied that.

But

Sunday walked into the party and it was like time stood still.

And I thought, I don't know what he's going to do.

And I walked up to him and

we leaned in and hugged each other.

And I said to him, I said,

this is to tell you the kind of guy is.

And him and I were mad at each other.

I said, I didn't think you were coming, Ralph.

And he said to me, without missing a beat, he said, there's no other place place I'd rather be tonight, George, and hugged me, and we shook hands.

And then he went into his part of the party, and I went into my part of the party.

And

later that night, you know, he jumped on his bike and rode back to Arizona.

Wow.

It was an interesting night.

I think that, you know, I describe it in the book that Time Should Still.

And I talk about it on my podcast, but it may have been the mushrooms.

I think it might have been.

Yeah.

You were probably hallucinating.

You think he was even there?

Well, you know what?

You're the first person.

Now I'm starting to doubt myself.

No, I think he was there.

At least in flesh.

I don't know about in spirit.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

So that night when you got offered to call him, do you regret not calling him?

You know, I have mixed emotions about it because I'll tell you.

If I would have called him and we would have gotten an argument and he died, they would have blamed me.

I feel that.

Dang.

Longtime enemies, but in the same chapter.

That's an interesting dynamic.

Yeah, it was an interesting dynamic.

And,

you know, he was 10 years my senior, and

I respected him as that, but I didn't agree with him.

He did things that I thought were wrong, and I confronted him not only

personally, but publicly now, you know, on social media, and I, you know, I got a pretty decent social media following.

And, you know,

I make a remark about Sonny, and, you know, people, I get

the George Christie haters that go you wouldn't do that if Sonny was alive and you know the fact is and I usually write them back

anything I say about Sonny I said to his face when he was alive you know I always confronted him and gave him the opportunity to respond but you know the difference between Sonny and I was Sonny thought the club belonged to him I always felt I belonged to the club so that was our different philosophy sounds like a bit of ego yeah he had a big ego

you know maybe that's what made him a good leader yeah When you were making important decisions, were you talking with the members about it at all or were you more private?

Well,

I

discussed it with members.

I'd like to hear what members had to say, but I would create a vision in

what I felt I could accomplish.

As a leader, you've got to set goals that you can accomplish.

If you set goals that are unreasonable, not only are you going to fail

perception-wise, as a leader to the people surrounding you,

fail to yourself.

So, you know, I would always set reasonable goals, and some of them were pretty high, perhaps, as I reflect back.

But, you know, trying to have a moratorium on violence in a culture full of violence.

You know, outlaw bikers are violent.

And, you know, I noticed you earlier, I didn't correct you at the time, but you said,

use the term gang.

And that's one of the things we fought for years.

That term.

We like to call ourselves, you know, motorcycle clubs.

So

if you

run across the motorcycle club, don't call them a game.

Okay.

That's good to know.

It is good to know.

They get offended?

Yeah, very offended.

Oh, wow.

Very offended.

And, you know, it's an innocent remark.

And as an outlaw leader,

When you're in a dialogue with somebody, is the remark intentional or is it innocent?

Right.

And, you know, even the the members need to learn how to distinguish between the two types of remarks.

Just a

intentionally disrespectful remark.

You're in a bar with some guy and he starts drinking, and a lot of people feel that,

wow, I'm going to buy this biker guy a drink so that entitles me to disrespect him.

And that's usually what happens.

People

come around, they want to hang out with the bikers and see the outlaw bikers, whatever club it may be, hanging out at the bar, and they go, man, I want to hang out with them.

And

they do go up and they buy drinks, and they drink, and they, you know, they let their mouth overload their ass.

See what happens.

And, you know, they get called up on it.

And,

you know, getting punched in the nose in

the outlaw culture is nothing.

people in everyday walks of life you know they get hit in the nose it turns into a court proceeding you know and uh you get in a fight with somebody

you can see you made a comment, you forgave Taco for, you know, I mean, it's a violent world I live in, and

you have to understand that comes along with territory.

Did you guys have a no-snitching code similar to the Mafia

with police officers and stuff?

Yeah, absolutely.

No snitching.

And that was the one thing I really held against Sonny because he kept saying, I know George is going to wind up snitching on us.

And, you know, my comment always was, you know, if I was going to snitch, you guys would be all in prison.

You know, so your

comment and your posture and position doesn't hold any water because you're still a free man.

Right.

You know, I mean, I certainly was up there in the political arena for 35 years.

You know, I'm a man with a lot of secrets.

Yeah, you definitely have some.

You're going to be taking some to the grave.

I'm going to take them to the grave.

That's respect, though.

What do you think would have happened if you stayed?

I don't know.

You know, it's a hypothetical question.

And,

you know, Beverly and I talk about it all the time.

I think I would try to get the club to

have a direction.

I think a lot of these bike clubs

don't have direction.

Taco was a leader that had a direction.

I don't know if it was

proper at times but you know he certainly was taking the club in a direction there was a guy in the Mongols named Little Davey I think he had a good vision

and I think at the end Sonny

Sonny I think we said it earlier was he's somewhat a selfish guy yeah I don't think he cared what happened after he left and I think you know the club

maybe needs

a new guy like Sonny to step in there and you know maybe if I would have have stayed, I would have been that guy.

I don't know.

Yeah.

That's, you know, hypothetical.

For sure.

What was your direction when you were leading?

What was the goal?

The goal was,

you know, we were fighting wars on five fronts.

I thought that that needed to stop.

In addition to fighting all the other bike clubs, we were fighting law enforcement as well.

So, you know, I thought that we needed to resolve all those issues,

focus on us.

You know, one of the things, like when I first, first time I approached Taco, unannounced, I went to him,

took a big chance.

You know, anything could happen.

We were, you know, members were getting killed at the time.

And I just said, you know, I'm not competing with you.

I'm happy being a Hell's Angel.

I said, I think you're happy being an outlaw.

And

we're all living the same type of lifestyle.

There's no conflict here.

We're not in your area.

You're not in our area.

Because there were no outlaws in California.

I said, why don't we just put this stuff behind us?

the original conflict was over a woman.

It was a fight over a woman and

bruised

egos and whatnot.

But,

you know, I hope that

the outlaw bike community

survives.

I hope that they can move forward.

You know, we're 2024 now.

I think in the turn of the century in the 1900s, I think all the traditional outlaws were gone in the 20s.

Wow.

You know, I mean, is that true?

Yeah.

Yeah, they pretty much

were gone.

And I think that was one of the things I used to say to people at the meetings.

I was a West Coast chairman.

And I said, you know, as we approach this new century, we don't want the same thing to happen to us that happened to the last group of outlaws.

And, you know, America...

and the United States, they have a real

love for outlaws.

They really do.

And I think it was because the country was birthed in revolution.

I mean, our founding fathers were outlaws.

They were revolutionary guys.

And I think we stated it earlier, you know, if they'd lost the war, they would have been hung.

They were outlaws.

Yeah.

And

so

I can't imagine America without some old school outlaws.

But, you know, I don't know what may happen.

We'll see, man.

I don't know.

I think people are always going to rebel a little bit, though.

I think so.

You know, it's happening right now.

You know, there's, you know, who would have thought 20 years ago

a

convicted felon, or, you know, before he was potentially convicted, could be representing a major political party in this country.

I mean, nobody seems to care.

You know, you listened to all the politicians on the news this morning.

They were saying, we're supporting him anyways.

And I think, you know, Trump's somehow

yielding

to nothing.

He doesn't care.

You know, he just doesn't hell with you guys.

I saw videos of him laughing yesterday.

Yeah, he doesn't care.

You know, and look,

and some people are going to agree with me, and some people aren't.

The guy's a former president of the United States.

Why do we have to make ourselves look foolish to the rest of the world?

I mean, come on.

Facts.

Yeah, why would we want to make ourselves look foolish?

You know, here's a guy that held the highest office in the land, and now we're going after him

because he wanted to keep his private life private.

Doesn't matter if he wanted to do it because he didn't want to impact his family or he didn't want to impact his political campaign.

Nobody wants that stuff out in the public.

You know, you got the Kennedys, you got the Clintons.

I mean, this stuff's been going on in politics.

You know, I think

there's been illegitimate children by presidents.

Yeah.

So I can't remember his name.

He was a president in the 20s.

20s?

Hoover?

1920s?

Okay.

Yeah, I can't remember his name.

He had a kid with another woman.

Yeah, out of wedlock.

Yeah.

So, I mean, this has been going on.

I mean, look, look at King David.

You know, he was God's chosen people.

He was lusting after another woman.

So what did he do?

He sends him in the front line to a battle.

He knows he's going to get killed so he can,

you know, take this a Bible story.

Yeah.

And so he can have his woman.

And

it's nothing new.

Yeah.

It's been going on for centuries.

You know, why'd Cain kill Abel?

And I'm, you know, I'm making Bible references.

And like I said, I believe in a higher power.

You know, I don't go to church.

Church would probably fall down if I stepped in it.

Yeah.

But

I just think it's ridiculous.

I think we look ridiculous.

It is crazy.

Were women kind of off limits for you guys?

In what regard?

Like harmful, like harming them.

Well, you know, that was one of my beefs with this new show on A ⁇ E, Secrets of the Hell's Angels.

They should retitle it Not So Secrets of the Hells Angels because they didn't say anything new, but they made us out to be very,

you know, monogenistic

against women.

We beat women.

I tell you, I got to be careful with Beverly.

I think she could take me.

I can see that.

He's a shark for sure.

So, you know what I'm saying?

I'm being a little bit

funny right now, but I respect women.

I always respected women.

And I think there's a place for

women.

There were women, Hell's Angels at one time.

Oh, there were?

Yeah, Sonny sort of pushed them all out of the club.

Oh, wow.

But, you know, Garbage Head, Mother Ruth,

you know, these are famous women, Hell's Angels.

You know, that show didn't talk about any of them.

They just said, you know, we beat women, we abuse women.

You know what?

I have a daughter.

I treat her with respect, and I treat my wife with respect.

And

Beverly and my first wife, she's deceased now.

We're good friends.

And

you think Cheryl would tolerate that for one minute, Beverly?

So anyways,

you know,

people's private lives are people's private lives.

And,

you know, don't try to make some salacious episode out of a series

about

one or two people.

If you looked at the statistics for women abused by outlaw bikers,

I'm sure it's much lower than law enforcement's.

And no offense to my police buddies, but we're, talking statistics here.

I think it's probably higher.

Wow.

And I don't know that for a fact.

I'm just shooting from the hip, but I'd be willing to debate somebody on that.

That's interesting that they wanted to center that around beating women on that show.

Well, yeah,

that's one of the things that pissed me off.

They probably want to just get views, so they're just, you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, it's all about numbers.

I'll tell you an interesting comment when I did the Outlaw Chronicles back in

2015 or 16, I can't remember when it was.

It was a surprise hit for the History Channel.

And I talked to one of the executives.

He called me the next day and congratulated me because the numbers were so high.

And I was the host of the show.

I carried the show.

And I said to him,

very,

you know, I guess I sounded like very naive to him.

And I said, so how were the the numbers?

He said, they're really strong, man.

And I said, were they

positive or negative?

And he goes, we don't care about that.

He goes, we just want numbers.

And I mean, you know, he was honest about it.

He didn't give a damn.

Well, that's the media in general.

Yeah, he goes, we just want numbers.

We don't care if it's positive or negative.

But, I mean, this was a very popular show.

It had a billboard on Broadway in New York City and a billboard on Sunset Strip.

Wow.

It was like, it was a big deal.

And the reason the show was so popular

was it was told from the outlaw perspective.

And this was the first time any show had been told from the outlaw perspective.

And, you know, when the producers from A ⁇ E came to me and said,

you know, what do you think the success of, you know, the Outlaw Chronicles was?

What was it?

And I tried to explain that to them, and they just...

They missed the mark.

Yeah.

Yeah, they, you know, I don't know what the numbers were.

I heard they gradually dissipated with each episode.

Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

That's what I was told.

Yeah.

I think that's important for any media company to have someone that lived that lifestyle of

you have a say in the show.

Yeah, and I certainly need someone from law enforcement there as well, but

so we can talk shit to each other.

Yeah.

I saw on another show, you actually were on some good terms with certain police officers, though, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

I've got police officers that I consider friends.

Police officers are a necessity in society.

I, you know, I thought, I was in Spain at the time, but I thought that one of the most ludicrous

cries I heard or mantras I heard was defund the police.

I mean, you know what?

We lived in a tough part of a town in Ventura.

And in addition to Ventura, I was a leader in Los Angeles at the Los Angeles.

And

people are not, society are not ready to

live their life without law enforcement.

They think they may be able to do it.

They can't do it.

You know, we used to

take care of the streets in Ventura.

We had our own area and we kept it clean.

But

we had the ability to do it.

We had not only the power, you know,

we had the reputation as well.

So when the health angels told, you know, certain criminal elements in the city of Ventura to do certain things, they did it.

They didn't have any choice.

And if they didn't, they would be dealt with in our court where there's there's no appeals and justice is immediate.

You know, it's not drawn out over 10 years.

And

I think that

defund the police, I mean, that's just ridiculous.

It was crazy.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Yeah.

How are you going to defund the police?

And you know what?

These guys are out there risking their ass on the line every day.

And,

you know what?

You don't have to like them.

The guys that

are breaking the law, they usually get dealt with ultimately.

they get that cavalier attitude and you know

the department finds out about it and they we they don't want those guys in the department yeah those few years were scary man that blm movement yeah to fund the police and the fires everywhere crazy that was nuts you were in spain during that i was in spain that whole time you didn't miss out man no and i i you know my son was uh apprising me of what was going on uh

and

He wanted to go to a couple of rallies just to see what was happening or not.

You know, I pleaded with him.

I go, look, man,

you don't need to go there.

You know, he was 17, 18 years old at the time.

I go, you don't need to go there, man, and get caught up in something.

But, you know,

it takes a lot of nerve for a former Hell's Angel leader to tell his son

to stand down.

But, you know what?

Yeah, police are needed.

They're definitely necessary in society.

I was criticized for that as a Hells Angel by a lot of the guys in the club.

You know, cops would pull up and they'd stop out in front of the clubhouse and I'd walk out there and talk to them.

To me, I just saw it as not only public relations, but community relationships.

Right.

And

anyways.

It's better to be on good terms with them than bad, I'd say.

I would think so.

Certainly, you know, the police...

In Ventura knew the parameters.

They never overstepped their bounds, never asked me anything compromising.

And in turn, I never asked them them anything that would compromise them you know

yeah we just we had a respectful relationship uh

one of the uh chiefs uh he's retired now uh i had known him for 30 years you know he'd come up through the ranks uh and i had kind of come up politically uh through the ranks of the hell's angels you know i kept getting more powerful and powerful

but uh

you know There was a guy that I respected, and I think he respected me as well.

Nice.

Yeah, you climbed the ranks quick, right?

I did.

A lot faster than I wanted to.

I wanted to get in there and party, man.

But, you know, I got in the middle of that war with the Mongols.

And I think because of my military background, I was pulled deep into it.

I was sensible about it.

It wasn't something I thought was productive.

You know, there was a lot of shit that went down.

There was collateral damage.

You know, one of the guys put a bomb in a

Mongols'

building.

It was a bike shop, kind of a clubhouse hangout thing.

The collateral damage, you know, killed a 15-year-old kid.

Holy crap.

So, I mean, you know, war is not productive.

And it's not, you know, people think it's romantic.

People that talk about war like it's romantic.

It's not romantic.

Wonder if you're going to get shot or watching your buddy go to prison or burying your buddy because somebody stabbed him or shot him.

It's not romantic.

Yeah, waking up to something new every day, I bet.

Just stress,

absolutely stressful.

And that lasted a few years, right?

Well, it's still going.

Oh, I thought you made peace with them.

No, no, the war with the Mongols still is going to this day.

I work as an expert witness now for defense lawyers.

And

I actually

just testified

probably less than three months ago as an expert witness for a defendant.

It was a shooting between the Hells Angels and the Mongols.

Wow.

So the war is alive and well in Southern California.

That's nuts.

Yeah, it is nuts.

I wonder if it's out here, too.

Yes.

In Vegas?

It is out here.

I think the Mongols

shot a Vago.

One or two Vagos.

A Vago?

Yeah.

What's up?

That's another bike club, one of the big four bike clubs.

One of the Mongo's was shot by Hell's Angel right here in Las Vegas.

Damn.

So these clubs are everywhere.

Yeah, they're everywhere, and they are very active, and

they can be very violent at times.

Damn.

Well, George, it's been fun, man.

Anything else you want to promote?

Any books, shows coming up?

You know, I've got a, you know, my podcast, Speak of the Devil.

It's on Patreon.

Anybody interested in this lifestyle, I do a QA where people can write in and Beverly and I.

Beverly reads me the questions and I answer them.

And I try to, I take on all questions.

I don't, nothing's off limits for me.

You know, when I do interviews,

you know, like they gave you no parameters.

I don't care.

Ask me.

I don't always answer.

but ask the way.

But I appreciate you having me here.

I hope I reached

some new

younger people and kind of get an insight into the outlaw lifestyle.

Yeah, you definitely did.

Thank you for having me.

Absolutely.

Thanks for coming on.

Thanks for watching, guys.

I'll see you tomorrow.