Being $25M in Debt, Beefing with Dave Ramsay + Getting Death Threats | Sam Primm DSH #269

Wants people to invest in real estate.

That's amazing.

When I saw Trump pay zero, I was like, dude, I'm doing something wrong.

Well, he made me do something wrong too.

But yeah, no, there's a lot of power in real estate and just getting those assets.

They say when the U.S.

housing market sneezes, the world gets a cold.

Just because the entire world economy boils down to the U.S.

real estate market.

Seriously?

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welcome back to the show guys i'm your host as always sean kelly got with me a real estate expert sam prim how's it going it's going well man excited to be here excited to get this kicked off on probably the most boring guest you've ever had but that's okay people can relate to boring nah there's been some i wouldn't say boring but definitely some uh what's that word monotone okay you're not monotone no i won't do that i'll fluctuate my voice as much as you want.

Yeah, so we're off to a good start there, but what's new in the real estate world?

Is the market kind of weird still?

The market's a little bit weird.

It's still a really strong market in most areas.

Real estate is cyclical, but it's also, you know, it's not just the whole United States.

Every market's a little bit different.

So most markets are still strong.

I'd say over half the markets are still above average as far as strength goes.

So it's a good market still.

Yeah, I noticed Vegas isn't dropping, man.

No, not very many places are dropping.

The only places that are dropping are on the far coast, and it's usually just the higher dollar volume houses, not the,

mid-level houses.

Those aren't falling.

Right.

So is it true you're $25 million in real estate debt right now?

I'm about $26 million in debt, Sean.

So $26 million in debt.

I owe banks like $140 grand every single month.

Oh my gosh.

How are you sleeping at night?

I sleep like a baby.

I sleep like an absolute baby.

As soon as my head hits the pillow, I am out, get my good seven hours, and I'm up at it again.

I need to understand like this whole debt thing because it sounds bad when we talk about it, but what exactly does that mean?

so if you get into like consumer debt like buying you know borrowing money for a car or a boat or to do something stupid with of course that's bad but I borrow money to buy assets and if you don't have the money like I didn't when I got started I didn't have enough money to invest in real estate so I borrowed money to invest in real estate so if I'm simply put if I'm borrowing money to buy an asset that produces cash I take the cash that asset produces and pay off who I borrowed the money from I'm out no money and I own the asset it's it's how the world really works it's how zuckerberg started facebook must started or got involved in tesla how he bought x he didn't pay on cash his own cash for x right apple sits on 200 billion dollars in cash and they're in a hundred billion dollars in debt so as long as you're borrowing money to buy an asset then it's a good thing as long as you're managing that asset well especially if you don't come from money because i i sure as hell didn't come from money interesting so how did you go about that first borrow people watching this are looking to borrow some money what's the process i so i went to a private lender you can go to a hard million lender as well so you're going you're finding like a distressed house is what I did.

I found a house that needed work and I borrowed money to fix up that house.

And then I took it to a bank and I took a loan from the bank to pay back who I borrowed the money from.

There are some nuances to it, but it's not super complicated.

As long as you're buying something at a discount, there's enough equity in there that you're able to pay back who you borrowed the money from.

Got it.

And how long did it take you to make that first million with real estate?

I'd say probably about a year and a half.

You know, every single house that I bought had, you know, $20,000 to $40,000 worth of equity.

So I just had to buy 15 to 20 houses to get to that million.

So and the cool thing about it is that first house, even after two years, had gone up in value 5 or 10 grand.

And the debt had been paid down by the renter 5 or 10 grand.

So every single house that I buy, the equity grows every single day.

So I make about $10,000 a day without doing anything because I own...

almost $50 million worth of real estate.

It goes up in value a little bit every day.

And the mortgage gets paid down a little bit every single day plus tax-free cash flow.

But that's the beautiful thing about real estate is if you're buying something that produces cash, like I said, you take the cash to pay it off.

So you get the appreciation, plus you get the debt pay down.

And if you do that enough times, you can really make a lot of money.

Wow, that's a good life.

Waking up to 10 G's every day?

Yeah, without to do a thing.

Can't complain there.

I mean, that's enough to just retire.

Yeah, if I wanted, and I'm kind of an idiot too, so it matters no smarter than me with that to do.

Why would you say you're an idiot?

Like, were you bad in school growing up?

No, I wasn't.

I just kind of like to have a little self-deprecating humor, but I'm not like super like smart.

Like, I not, you know, I don't like, can't, like, compute things and I not like super go technology.

I just work hard and figured out that buying assets is the way that 90, whatever percent of people create wealth.

Yes, you're Dave.

Right.

Let's talk about Dave because Dave Ramsey went at you.

What exactly happened?

So he basically, I guess he saw one of my videos where I talk about my $25 million in debt.

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That's a pretty good hook for videos, right?

I'm in $25 million worth of debt.

Most people are going to watch the rest of that video.

So I've done that, you know.

couple handful of times and i guess he saw one of them and on his show somehow it got brought up and he's like yeah that guy holding the baby on his hip says in $25 million worth of debt.

He's a liar.

You don't need an FBI trained detective.

And he went at me for like five minutes.

So it allowed me to respond.

You know, everybody responds to Dave about his debt, but I could respond saying he called me out.

So he punched down.

It allowed me to punch up, which is a lot better place to be.

So I have nothing against Dave, but he definitely has this hardcore following this hardcore belief that all debt is bad.

And a funny thing about that, Sean, is I read something the other day that said Dave might become the first billionaire that's debt-free, and that person was bragging on Dave.

What about the 99.9% of other billionaires?

Like, why would you try to do the thing that one person can do and not everybody else has created their wealth through properly leveraging debt?

Dave's the only one that hasn't.

So unless you got the cult following Dave has, you're not going to create multi-millionaires or billionaires through, you know, borrowing or saving or through saving money.

You have to borrow it.

Yeah, he's so against debt.

I don't understand why, because there's so many beneficial ways to use debt.

Like Robert Kiyosaki is probably the complete opposite end, right?

So I'd love to see them two in a room together.

Yeah,

I think they're kind of friends, and I've heard Robert talk about him.

He's like, Dave, behind closed doors, will say that if you are responsible with money, that it's good to leverage it, and it's okay to get a little bit of debt.

But he can't say that in the public.

He's got to be, you know, he's the no-debt guy.

He's built, you know, a billion-dollar brand or whatever around it.

So he's got to stick to his guns, whether he truly believes it or not.

Yeah.

Now, when is the best time to refi a house, take money against your house?

The biggest thing is when you have that equity.

So, when there's equity may get created very quickly from 2020 to 2022, houses went up in value like crazy.

Out here in Vegas, they did, and a ton of markets they did.

So, once you get that equity growth, then you can tap into it however you want.

You can do a HELOC, a cash-out refinance that's debt, you know, that's debt, it's tax-free.

So, there's a ton of different options.

So, just buy the thing that everybody needs, real estate, a house, an apartment, a duplex, whatever it is.

Everybody needs it, whether they want it or not so get involved in that industry and if you got to borrow money to do it great because most people don't have enough money to scale you know putting 20% down all the time so just get in the game and over time real estate will go up it doubles in value every 15 years from 19 1950 to night to 2023 it doubled in value every 15 years except three so like from 1965 to 1980 it doubled in value from 1972 to 1987 it doubled in value so every 15 years it doubles and that's as a whole that doesn't even include like rental priced houses that are a little bit less than price they go up even more so yeah the three years that didn't double the value went up like 88 94 98 or something so get involved in that it's gonna go up if you borrow money right the tenant's gonna pay the mortgage down and that's why 90 percent of millionaires come through real estate you don't have to start some tech startup or get lucky on crypto or buy nfts before they buy

to create wealth it's just a simple clean way to do it yeah wow 90

that's super high but it makes sense because it's not too complicated and a lot of it's in people's personal residence right their house that they own that that

So, like, if you think about it, all the other ways to create wealth make up 10% of millionaires.

That's nuts.

Combined.

And that's what people focus on, the other 10%.

Yeah.

So, dude, stop trying to recreate it, right?

Just go with what works.

You just have to be patient.

People aren't willing to be patient long enough to actually see the fruits of the growth and the debt pay down, and they get tired of it and move on or try to invest in something else.

Absolutely.

Now, have you been in the real estate game long enough to experience a crash yet?

I have not.

No.

So I got started in 2014.

There was a decent-sized dip in 2018 that some people felt.

And then actually from Q4 of 2022 to Q2 of 2023, Q4 of 2022 to Q3 of 2023, yeah, there was the biggest dip ever in real estate house value.

So the average house in the United States went from 480 to like 410.

So that just happened.

You probably didn't feel it because of the higher priced houses.

It wasn't.

So we just experienced a huge dip.

But if you're not over-leveraged, and I've talked to a ton of people that went through 08, the people that got screwed were the people that had one excess strategy.

They were flipping million-dollar houses and they were borrowing above what the houses were worth.

So I have $25 million in debt, but own $50 million in real estate.

So that's a big delta for a dip to eat into too much of that.

Yeah.

I feel like with those fix and flips, there's a big skill gap.

I feel like you really got to know what you're doing with those.

And

there's a big skill gap and there's a big risk.

You're taking it down.

You have to manage contractors.

The housing market can and will shift over a six-month period.

If you're wholesaling, you're in and out.

And if you're holding, as long as you hold long enough, like I said, it's going to go up.

As long as you're not over-leveraged and don't have to give it back to the bank, it's going to go up in value.

It just is.

It's not something you can't buy a house now how you could in the 1990s or early 2000s.

It goes up.

Right.

Are all your properties in St.

Louis?

Everything's in St.

Louis.

It's not the most exciting market, but it's a great market to invest in real estate.

Yeah, it went down like 10 or 12 percent in 08, and it doesn't get the crazy swings that a lot of the markets get, but we also don't get the crazy lows.

So it's a great market to invest in real estate.

A lot of people around the country invest in the Midwest and St.

Louis.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of different strategies, but your strategy is basically to hold.

Yeah, no, yeah.

So we flip about 300 house a year.

So I do a little bit of everything.

So we flip, we wholesale, and then I hold as well.

So I do a little bit of everything.

I fell in love with real estate, and there are so many ways to make money in real estate.

As long as you've got a good team and you buy a good product and buy at a discount, you can kind of do anything.

We sell probably 200 houses a year that we don't even close on.

We go direct to to seller, we get it at a discount, we mark it up 10, 15, 20 grand, sell it to a contractor or a rehab or a landlord, and then they buy it, and then there's still enough meat on the bone for them to make money, but we have low risk and really no exposure if we're selling them before we even close on them.

Wow.

So you're flipping 300 a year, you said?

Geez, that's almost one a day.

Yeah, no, it is.

Yeah, it is.

We did 312 last year.

The market shrunk a little bit because interest rates are so low.

Very few people are selling because they don't want to get out of that interest rate.

So we're going to do like 250-ish this year about.

damn yeah i'm buying a house right now interest rates are like seven seven five out here yeah that that's tough that makes it a little bit harder but they'll go it'll go down i always say marry the house date the rate the rate will go down yeah what's the highest you paid on interest for money the highest we've paid is probably oh so with private lenders we paid 12 percent but 12 that's on a short-term basis so so you give me a hundred grand let's say and i buy a house for 75 grand put 25 grand into it so i have a hundred grand in this house and then i sell it or refinance it you know it's worth 130 grand I'll give you back, you know, after six months, I'll give you back 106 grand.

So you made 12% on your money.

So you made six grand on it.

But if I don't have 100 grand, like I'm not getting anything then.

Or I just get a little bit less profit, a little bit less equity, but I still pay you.

So it's.

We have a ton of private lenders.

I've, you know, probably done 50 million in loans for private lenders, but

if I didn't have the money or even if I do have the money now, I still can't scale.

I do well for myself, but I don't make enough money to buy, you know, 80 houses a year and put 20% down.

Right.

And if if I did, I don't want to spend it on that.

So if you want to scale borrowing money and just getting over that 12% pill, it's not that big of a deal.

It's annualized.

And as long as you're buying deep enough, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah.

I mean, with that model, it makes sense.

I feel like 12% in any other business would be tough to justify.

I agree 100% because the margins are just, and there's so much equity there that it makes sense in this business.

And it's not long-term.

I would never do a 25-year mortgage at 12%.

I got locked in at 30 years last year at like 395 or a year and a half ago before the rates raised.

So I did my entire portfolio and I locked it in over 30 years at like 395.

So I don't have any renewing loans, took out a couple million cash tax-free.

And that was all from like, at that time, like six and a half years of investing in real estate.

It's crazy what you can do if you scale it the right way.

Yeah.

How were you able to take out that cash tax-free?

So if you do a cash-out refinance, so technically it goes on top of your mortgage.

Now your mortgage is up that million or two million, however much you take out, but it's debt.

That is not taxed.

not a taxable event so right you pull it out as a cash out refinance you have to pay zero dollars in taxes on it now my mortgages you know technically you know let's just for simple math I took out you know I had 18 million in mortgages but I did a refinance so now I have 20 million in mortgages and I took the difference that 2 million in cash so my mortgage are a little bit more but I'm not paying my mortgages the renters are paying my mortgages

this is how this is how wealthy like a lot of really wealthy people preserve their money they buy real estate with it it goes up in value They do a cash out refinance and they pull out the money tax-free.

And they just do that over and over again as it grows.

And that's how they're able to get at least a portion of tax-free money every single year.

And I didn't pay, I paid $0 in taxes for 2022.

And

I made the most money I've ever made last year.

And I paid $0 in taxes because real estate allows you to depreciate and write-offs and all this stuff writing off this whole trip, coming out here and all this stuff.

So there's so many write-offs that come along with real estate.

The government wants people to invest in real estate.

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That's amazing.

When I saw Trump pay zero, I was like, dude, I'm doing something wrong.

Well, he made me do something wrong too.

But yeah, no, there's a lot of power in real estate and just...

getting those assets.

They say when the U.S.

housing market sneezes, the world gets a cold, just because the entire world economy boils down to the U.S.

real estate market.

Seriously?

Yeah, and just with the jobs it provides with real estate agents and contractors and building houses and people needing the rentals.

And then also

when the house values go up, people refinance and then they redo their kitchen.

They go on vacation.

So if you live in your house, people live in their house.

The house values go up.

You know, over time, they do a HELOC.

They pull out some cash and they spend money.

It spurs the economy.

The economy moves because of people's equity.

That's why the economy was so hot, because house values went up so much from 2020 to 2022.

The economy was so strong, and then people took that equity out and they went and spent it in the economy and kept the wheels of turning along with the government stimulus.

But that's why the economy was so hot for a couple of years.

Good times, man, especially for you.

You must have been printing money back then.

It was not like the government.

I didn't push a button to print it.

It was pretty good.

Yeah.

So you got to be one of the biggest guys in St.

Louis right now.

Yeah, we're the biggest, like, you know, as is like, you know, homebuyer.

The wee bugly houses is one of our competitions.

So yeah, we're the biggest right at the top one or one one A as far as the distressed house buyers in St.

Louis.

Yeah, so is the plan to expand to other cities?

We've talked about it.

We've done a little bit.

We're dabbling into Columbia, Missouri right now, which is where Missoula is,

Missouri University.

It's like 90 minutes away.

So we're dabbling into that.

I don't know, it's tough.

I know a lot of people that do it remotely, and you lock it up over the phone, and you don't know the condition of it, and you have like a contingency in there, and there's a ton of fallout because you send somebody over there, and it's not the condition of the person.

So it's just a very inefficient way to do it.

In St.

Louis, our buyers, we have have six full-time buyers their job is to go buy houses all day every day they're in the house they're able to we lock up we lock it up we close on it guaranteed so it's just I like that business model better I think we'll probably always be in St.

Louis and just do that but my education and social media and a lot of other things than buying rentals and all that stuff I'll probably expand into other markets yeah that makes sense there's something about being close to it where you could go there and just be touch it right i touch it touch the siding and i don't have to get on a plane to go do that yeah yeah um

so i know you've had some weird death threats threats in the past.

Yeah, just a little bit.

I mean, so I'm like, not like huge on social media or anything, but like there's a sect out there of,

I think they're okay with me calling them communist, but like they're like the communist socialist of like, you shouldn't own real estate.

The government should own it.

You shouldn't own something that somebody has to have, like shelter.

You shouldn't own shelter because it's a human necessity.

Well, people profit on water and people profit on groceries.

So anyways, so there's those people that get really mad.

If I do a video that goes viral, then I'll get people saying not usually like I'm going to you but like I hope you die or I hope you're I've had like four or five people say I hope your family gets cancer for Christmas and just things like that and it's like bro I'm just trying to help normal people create wealth I grew up in the Midwest lower middle class and been able to do a lot of really cool stuff and I'm an idiot like we said earlier so like I'm trying to help other people do that I'm not like you know trying to be greedy here but anyways it's just you you see it probably more than I do.

There's just a lot of hurt people out there and hurt people hurt people.

Yeah, there's a lot of negative people on social media, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's just that you're just a and they're the loudest section and then if you were to see them in person, they'd like shake your hand and say hi.

Oh, yeah.

So they're not doing that in person.

Midwest though, what was that like?

What's the culture like?

What are the people like?

It's a little bit different.

We say op a lot.

If you run in somebody, you say, oh, sorry.

Oh, we say op a lot.

So a little more polite than the coast, especially I heard you saying you're from New Jersey, so a little more polite.

Where you racked in Jersey.

Yeah.

So we, I've talked to a lot of people from the coast, and they're just like Missouri and you know, the Midwest, just a little more polite and a a little more patient I would say but in general I mean it's all I've ever known and I enjoy it out there it's not the most exciting city in the world but but I like it's a great market to invest in and raise kiddos in yeah but not as business driven right not as business driven I wouldn't say no I mean it's not too bad the the red states are the pretty you know business friendly states and Missouri is a red state so there are some advantages some tax things that you can take advantage of but it's not anything crazy we don't have the industry that Texas has or even like you know Nevada or California has that their actual economy are are ginormous so it's not you know super business friendly but it's not that bad yeah so was it tough to find a mentor group of entrepreneurs out there it wasn't too bad because like I mentioned earlier st.

Louis has it's a great market to invest in real estate so there are people from around the country these high-level people that invest in real estate that I've been able to connect with and there's a lot of people in St.

Louis that are super smart that invest there because it's such a good market you're like sitting on a gold mine is probably a little aggressive of a way to say but sitting on a really good asset type and a lot of people invest and there's you know smart people in every city so it wasn't too bad.

I know out here on the coast, you can run into a celebrity at every other like restaurant you go to and have maybe a little more connections, but not too bad.

Yeah, I don't really care about celebrities.

I just want to be around like solid people, you know?

Yeah.

And Jersey for me wasn't cutting it.

Yeah, I've heard that a little bit about it.

You like it out here?

I love it here because all the conferences are here.

We're getting a lot of big sports teams.

I know you mentioned St.

Louis might be getting an NBA team, right?

That's my goal, I hope.

So I don't think they are.

So I would like that to happen.

So my goal is to own an NBA team in St.

Louis, get an expansion expansion team to St.

Louis and that's cool the vanity behind it's kind of cool but in general the whole reason I have that as my goal is because it checks all these boxes and it's easier to say like I want to make a lot of money obviously I want to connect with the local business and political community I want to network with other, you know, multi-millionaires and billionaires.

I want to provide a lot of jobs for St.

Louis.

I want to make St.

Louis a more desirable city so people think of it as more of like a hub in the Midwest.

So if I'm able to do all that, owning and I would have to do that to own an NBA team.

So I I don't have to own an NBA team, but I want to do all that.

And it's just kind of one of those things you can visualize a little bit easier than the six things I just said that I want to do.

Absolutely.

I think owning a pro sports team is like every entrepreneur's final checklist item.

Yeah, it'd be pretty cool.

And most of them, unless you're like a Cronkey or Mark Cuban, most of them...

There's like 30 owners.

There's one, like the most famous person that owns them is known as the owner, but a lot of people own 5%, 10% of, not a lot, but a decent amount own 5, 10% of sports franchises.

So I don't have to be the majority owner.

That'd be cool, but I definitely don't have to be.

No, all you need is a few points to get the main benefits.

I think PBD just invested in the Yankees.

Yep, he did, yep.

So, I mean, if you have two points in that, I mean, you're getting a suite at all the games, you're networking, you're having fun.

Well, you're around those people.

And I know, yeah, and there's a ton of people that are buying into, I think J.

Cole and Eric Church just invested in the Charlotte Bobcats a little bit too, I think.

So just getting

a little piece of it and helping your brand help the team and then the team help your brand i think it's it's beneficial i do think a lot more celebrities or influencers or people with money are going to get little portions of teams just to help boost the the team brand as well absolutely have you had any uh bad deals nightmare tenants anything go wrong yeah we've had we've had our fair share so i own i don't know the exact number but like 290-ish rental door or something like that and so you know there's we do our best to prove good tenants we treat them like people we respect them we're not slumlords we're landlords our houses are really nice we give them every opportunity to pay we communicate with them.

So we have very minimal issues, but we do have some issues.

I remember there's one tenant that took us to court or whatever, and she claimed that there was mold in the house and it was causing, you know, her to not be able to breathe and rashes and all this stuff was trying to sue us.

And we tested it and it was, there was nothing wrong with that.

But I do remember, funny thing is, and the court documents, this was during ⁇ so it was over via Zoom, but there was a picture.

She's probably in her 60s.

The evidence was a picture of her tits.

And it was because there was a ration between them.

And so I remember, like, whoa, all right, well, we're going there.

But anyways, that just was a funny story aside from it.

So I was like, I don't think that helped your case, ma'am.

But anyways, yeah, that didn't go through anything.

Never had

that.

How common is mold, actually?

It's not super common.

We did a test.

There was more mold outside the house than inside the house.

Oh, really?

Yeah, so it wasn't anything we did.

There's just natural mold.

You know, there's a ton of different kinds of mold out there right now.

We're breathing mold right now.

It's just not all bad.

Oh, I didn't know that.

I always thought it was indoors for some reason.

I didn't know it grew out of the way.

Oh, Oh, there's molds outdoor everywhere.

Yeah.

Really?

Wow.

Any like properties where the tenant just never paid?

We've had a few of those, but that's the beautiful thing about Missouri and St.

Louis.

It's fair.

If they don't pay for 30 days, we send them to the eviction courts and they show up.

The judge usually will allow them to go on a payment plan and say, hey, you can go on a payment plan, pay your missing month and the next month over, you know, the next six months, this kind of payment plan.

And then if they don't do that, then you can get them out in 30 days pretty easily.

So they get a second and third chance and then they're gone.

So that's the cool thing about Missouri is we can get them out in, you know, 30, 60 days if they're in the pay.

In some places, like California and other places, it's months before you can get them out.

So that's why.

Sometimes years.

Yeah.

So that's why I'm that's one of the reasons I invest in St.

Louis.

Yeah.

So no squatting.

No squatting allowed there.

None of that.

No squatting.

Yeah.

I think if you're in there for what, 30 days in Cali, you can live there.

Yeah, there was, I just, I just did a video the other day on that lady out in California who's requesting $100,000 to move out of ADU that she was Airbnb.

So it's not even like she wasn't like her full-time residence.

She went out there and wouldn't leave, and something didn't pass occupancy.

And she's been out there living free for like a year in like this ADU of this doctor's really nice house.

And he can't go talk to her.

She'll like, you know, call the police and he can't get her out.

She said, give me a hundred grand and I'll get out.

Crazy.

We don't get that here in the Midwest.

Yeah.

What do you think about Airbnb?

Have you done any of that?

We have a little bit of Airbnb.

So I bought a resort in Branson, Missouri, which is like redneck Vegas kind of.

There's like shows and gambling and comedians.

And it's a

decent sized little town as far as entertainment goes.

I think a third of the country can drive there in a day.

So it's a pretty good hub for the Midwest as far as tourism goes.

So I bought a little resort there.

It's like a 20-unit little like hotel that was in shambles and we're turning into like a boutique Airbnb hotel thing.

So I'm doing a little bit of that because interest rates are higher right now.

So it's harder to cash flow on a 12-month lease, but a nightly lease or a midterm three-month lease to a traveling nurse, you can charge more so you can cash flow.

Again, that's another thing about real estate.

There's so so much flexibility that goes along with it.

So many different ways.

Now, I'm seeing a lot of Section 8 stuff.

Have you done any of those?

We do a little bit of Section 8, just basically government subsidize.

The government will subsidize some or all of the rent that this person has to, you know, pay to you.

And it's not bad because it's usually close to market rent, if not market rent.

And then the fact that the government's paying their rent, they do require them to take care of the property.

If they're not taking care of the property, we can call in the Section 8 authorities.

They'll go look at the property and they'll be like, get out, clean up, or get out.

They'll kick them out for us.

So there's some benefits to it.

We do a little bit of it, but in general, we're more just market rent.

That makes sense.

So out of your $40 million portfolio, how exactly are you sourcing all those deals?

Mainly through relationships.

So, you know, the flipping company we talked about earlier, you know, we buy about 250, 300 houses a year.

So any really good deals, we'll pick those off and keep those as rentals.

But also just developing relationships with apartment brokers.

I own six apartment complexes and local wholesalers, a wholesaler brought us that deal down in Branson, which is about four hours

from where we live live and operate in St.

Louis.

So relationships is the key to real estate in any business, as you probably know.

So building relationships with the right people, life happens.

People need to sell their house.

They have to sell their house.

There's always a supply, some type of supply of distressed properties because...

Houses go bad, they get mold, you know, there's foundation issues, there's hoarder houses, people get relocated, people get foreclosed on.

Life just happens to people.

And that's where we can come in and we say, hey, you can list it for this and we'll try to to do that.

It might not pass occupancy.

It might be a pain in the butt to sell, but this is an option.

Or we can buy it cash for this, like you pick.

And usually they pick the cash option and they're crying at the closing table because they're happy that we were able to help them out of that situation.

So there's a ton of different sources to find distressed properties, but usually networking and just resourcing with people is the best.

That's awesome.

Are distressed ones the ones that are in auction?

Yeah, distressed ones are usually the ones in auction.

Yeah, so that's that's the thing.

You're buying into equity.

You sign on the dotted line and there's equity in there because of the distressed nature.

Now you do have to repair it, but you're getting enough discount that you buy it to stress, repair it, then there's still 20, 30% equity.

So every single rental that I close on, I walk into 30% equity because I'm selective and buying the right houses at the discount because they're distressed.

Yeah.

Do you still have that same drive and hunger you had when you first got into real estate?

Yeah,

I would say it kind of goes in ways right now.

I feel like I'm really driven.

It's cyclical.

I am satisfied, but I'm not at the same time.

Like I'm content, but I'm not satisfied.

Like I feel like I'm just scratching the surface.

I want to own an NBA team.

I want to own a billion dollars in real estate and I want to have a billion dollar company annual revenue.

So that's going to require me to continue to grind and work hard and hire the right people.

So I feel like I've done well for myself.

Yay, pat myself on the back, but time to step it into high gear.

I feel like I'm just getting started.

All right.

Well, St.

Louis, is that enough to get to a billion dollar mark?

You'll probably have to expand, right?

I'll probably have to expand a little bit, but real estate market is so big.

So like we said earlier, I own like $45 million in real estate.

I was on the plane leaving to come out here and flew like wrapped around St.

Louis and I'm like up in the air like my 45 million in real estate is like those three blocks you know you see everything else the real estate market is so big that I could do it in St.

Louis but we'll probably expand around a little bit just because

St.

Louis will be fine.

It's not like dying, but it's not growing like crazy.

It's just steady.

But having all your eggs in one basket in case something were to happen, I don't think would be ideal.

So I'll probably spread it around a little bit.

Yeah.

So to get to that level, you'll probably have to start a fund like Cardone did, right?

Yeah.

So that's the thing I struggle with.

And I feel like I could right now.

I could do the syndication route and i could you know raise money via social media create some content around it and i had i hung out with uh brandon turner the other night a couple nights ago in vegas and he's like you could raise 10 million dollars right now by you know three stories and a funnel but i like to own a hundred percent like when a syndication you usually own like five percent or ten percent so i'd rather own a hundred percent of ten million dollars worth of real estate than ten percent of a hundred million dollars if that makes sense so yeah that's where i think to get to a billion dollar i'll have to do that syndication route but i i want to own a billion dollars worth of real estate like i know uh grant owns like or grant has what four or five billion under assets under management but he's not a hundred percent owner oh so he only owns five percent of that oh or maybe ten percent maybe twenty there's a ton of different ways to do syndication a lot of people will charge you know two percent of the of the deal to set it up so a fifty million dollar apartment complex they'll just say i'll charge one percent to set this deal up so i get paid five hundred grand to do it and then i bring your money and i source the deal and i get you know five percent ownership or ten percent ownership so you're the people that pay into the syndication fund usually get a return in ownership usually and sometimes they can be bought back out, but there's a ton of different ways to do it.

But in general, most people that syndicate own, I would say, less than 20% of the fund and of the asset they're buying with the fund.

But some own more.

There's different ways to do it.

You can offer higher returns and less ownership.

There are a ton of different ways to slice it, but I'd rather just own my assets.

Yeah, so then it comes down to how much work am I putting in for that amount of money, right?

Exactly.

Yeah.

So right now you own all of it.

So you could put in five times less work to get that.

And I own all of it and I get all the tax benefits go directly to me like we talked about earlier.

I control everything, the people that go in it, the management, my team manage it.

So I just have more control over it.

But if I do want to grow, I'll probably have to give up some control.

That's how I've grown my other companies: bringing the right people and giving up some control and trusting them.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Dude, it's been fun.

Anything you want to close off with or promote?

I don't think so.

I think just anybody, just shoot me a follow on social media, same faster freedom, and shoot me a message on Instagram, and I'll get back to you.

Awesome.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Thanks for watching.

Yep.

Thanks for watching, guys.

I'll see you next time.