Roger Mason Jr on Playing Against Kobe Bryant & Playing with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker | DSH #213

It's a dream come true.

You know, as a kid, you grow up, you know, wanting to be an NBA player and watching all these great people before you.

And where did you go after that three-year tenure?

After that three-year tenure, I went to start my company, Vaunt, and I got approached

by Ice Cube to start the big three with him.

Welcome back to the show, guys.

Digital Social Hour.

I'm your host, Sean Kelly.

Got an awesome legend with me today, Roger Mason Jr.

How's it going, man?

Going good, man.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

So, what you've been working on post-NBA career?

Oh, man.

It's been a lot.

It's been a lot.

It's crazy how time flies.

My last year was 2014 with the heat and that LeBron James era.

And so since then, I've been up to a lot.

You know, when I first retired, I left because I got a better job and I was able, fortunate, to be the deputy executive director of the Players Association.

So my first transition out of playing was with Michelle Roberts and representing all the players, doing a collective bargaining agreement.

working on group licensing rights and all kinds of fun stuff with the PA.

So I did that for about three years,

went back to school for my MBA and started my journey as an entrepreneur.

Wow.

So you went back to school after your MBA.

Yeah, after the MBA, I went to get my MBA.

Yeah.

What made you want to do that?

I've just, I've always been entrepreneurial.

And when, you know, when I was in school the first time at UVA, I was, I was really focused on getting good grades and getting to the MBA, but I wasn't really, I don't remember what I really learned, to be fair, right?

Like, so it was more life lessons and things like that.

And so after I retired, you're older, you know, I felt like going back to school would be a cool thing for me to kind of learn, you know, some more finance type stuff, you know, building businesses, knowing that I want to, you know, be CEO of, you know, big companies at some point.

So I thought it would be a good thing to do.

Nice.

What was it like at Virginia?

How many years were you there?

I was at Virginia for three years.

It was great.

You know, ACC back then was super strong.

Yeah.

I left after my junior year and declared for the draft.

And then my first workout, I got hurt.

You serious?

Yeah,

first workout.

I'll never forget the Detroit Pistons.

And I had injured myself while at UVA.

I dislocated my shoulder in a game against NC State.

And I didn't miss any games.

And so I thought everything was fine.

That first workout came and I did it again twice.

Yeah, so that kind of shut down my draft process.

My stock dropped a little bit because it looked like I was going to need surgery, which I ended up needing.

Yeah, so it was,

you know, it was a tough start to my career, but it all worked out.

So did you know you were going to get drafted?

I knew I was going to get drafted, but I had a really wide range.

I was told I'd get drafted between either 14 or 31 would be the last.

And actually, I got drafted 30th.

And that was the year that

Timberwolves didn't have a first-round pick because they got penalized for something they did with Joe Smith.

Yeah, so

just my luck.

Oh, so they would have picked you earlier?

I mean, not necessarily them, but somebody would have picked and I would have been in the first round.

Oh, gotcha.

Is it true the second rounders don't make as much salary or something?

No, not really.

It's just that, you know, most second round picks, you're not slotted.

So, you know, you don't necessarily get a contract.

Oh, if you're early, if you're early in the second round, you do.

I signed a three-year contract.

But the later you are in the second round, a lot of times those guys don't make it.

Yeah.

What was your life like once you signed that paper and you became a millionaire overnight?

I mean, it was great.

It's a dream come true.

You know, as a kid, you grow up

wanting to be an NBA player and watching all these great people before you.

And so I got drafted by the Chicago Bulls.

And I grew up watching Jordan and Pippin and BJ Armstrong and all those guys.

So it was surreal to walk into the Birdo Center,

to see, you know, legends on on the rafters, like, like MJ.

And,

man, it was a great experience.

That's sick.

Did any of the previous Bulls players stop by and saw you practice once in a while?

All the time.

All the time.

I remember Charles Oakley would come and do pickup with us.

No way.

Yeah, it was like,

and he became like, you know, someone that was a vet to me.

Nice.

But I'll never forget playing pickup.

And

there was like a fast break.

I went and I dunked it.

Yeah.

And he was kind of in the vicinity.

And he was like, next time you come down there,

I'm putting you on the floor.

Oh, man, in practice?

Yeah,

it was summertime, but I didn't mess with Oak.

That's one guy you didn't want to mess with.

Yeah, I don't blame you.

Back in the old days, they played really physical.

Well, you were kind of part of it, too.

I was like the tail end.

Like, you know, my vets were all old school type players.

Yeah.

You know, so I came in.

Jalen Rose was my vet.

Yeah.

You know, Oak League, guys like that.

And you've seen the game change a lot from when you played, right?

I mean, the game has changed tremendously.

You know, the three-point shot has become, you know, dominant in our league.

And I think you look at the statistics and the way they look at the game, the game goes a lot faster,

less physical.

But I think it's a better game for some to watch.

Oh, so you're actually a fan of it because most of the old school guys, they kind of hate on it a little bit.

Yeah, you know, I just think everything evolves, right?

So I think

it's an exciting brand of basketball to watch.

I mean, look, I grew up on 90s basketball.

I love it.

I love the physicality, but it definitely takes a toll on your body.

And I think,

you know, for the longevity of the players, I think it's a good thing.

Yeah, for sure.

Were there any injuries you got that you still feel to this day?

My shoulder.

So during my rookie year, I was playing at Hoops Gym.

Are you familiar with Hoops the Gym?

Is it out here?

In Chicago.

Oh, no, I'm not.

So this was where Michael Jordan, this is Michael Jordan's gym.

Oh, okay.

And so in the summer, all the guys from Chicago, they play there.

You know, all the Bulls players, Jamal Crawford, you know, the first time I saw LeBron was at Hoopsta Gym.

I mean,

everybody, Jay-Z, Beyonce would be there watching Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Paul Pierce, you name it.

That's wild.

Yeah, Juwan Howard.

And I had a moment where I went baseline and I dunked on Juan Howard.

And when I dunked it, my shoulder came out again.

And that was the final straw for me to have to get surgery.

And after that, Jerry Krause said, no more Bulls players playing at that gym.

He was probably pissed.

Man, so rookie rookie year, what was that like mentally?

Because you're not getting the minutes you want and you're kind of just wanting to play.

Like, and the vets are kind of yelling at you, right?

Yeah, it's a good, it's a good observation.

I mean, not being able to play or practice with your teammates and being a rookie and coming into a men's league, it was definitely a transition for me.

It was, it was tough.

I missed the first 66 games of my career.

So, I think coming into the NBA that way, you know, it made me realize that, man, this thing could be, you know, very quick.

And so, I really started thinking about business my rookie year as I was injured.

Wow.

And like, what are the things that I want to do when I do transition?

And so I kind of got started with that, my rookie year, due to that injury.

So you were thinking early, man.

I was.

Most people think about that later in their career.

Yeah, you know, and things happen in life and you kind of have to adjust.

And so for me, that was the adjustment is like, all right, you know, what do I like to do?

What do I want to do off the court from a business standpoint when I'm done playing?

So do you think that shoulder injury kind of held your career back a little bit?

You know what?

Who knows?

You could always go back and wonder.

I don't necessarily think so.

I mean,

it allowed me to get great at certain things.

I became a great shooter.

I was a solid shooter coming out of the draft, but I really hung my hat on being a dead eye three-point shooter.

And

maybe I changed my game a little bit after the injury because I was much more of a slasher guy to go up and

play above the rim at times and things like that.

And after the injury, I became

more of a shooter.

I feel that.

So you played on eight NBA teams.

Which ones were your most memorable that you enjoyed the most?

The most memorable?

Well, one, playing for the hometown Washington Wizards and being a hometown kid.

And I actually had my breakout season that year.

That was really enjoyable because my family got to watch.

Nice.

But the two favorite places that I played by far are the San Antonio Spurs and the Miami Heat.

Wow.

Those are two different cultures.

Two different cultures, but more similar than you would think.

Really?

Yeah, you know, in San Antonio, it was

what a great opportunity to learn from Popovich, from Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Mano Ginobli, Michael Finley.

Those were the first years I started in the NBA.

And so, you know, to be a part of such a storied franchise that's won championships, you know, really learned, you know, the intangibles needed to win.

So

that was a great experience with the Spurs.

And then playing with the Heat, they had one two in a row.

Eric Spolster is one of my favorite coaches I've ever had.

And

LeBron James, one of the best teammates I've had.

Being in a locker room with him, D.

Wade, also unbelievable guy, Ray Allen, Charlotte Lewis.

The list goes on and on.

Playing on that team was

a real blessing and a great way to end my career.

Yeah.

Were you part of that team that lost to the Mavs in the finals?

No, this was the team that lost to the Spurs in the finals.

Oh, that was a good one.

Yeah, that was a good series.

So you were playing against against the team you came from.

That's right.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

So you kind of knew all their strategies and stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, but you know, to be fair, you know, Miami had played those guys in the finals the year prior, if you remember.

And when Ray Island hit that shot,

they ended up winning the championship.

So who was like the leader on those Spurs teams?

Because Duncan seems kind of quiet, right?

And so does Parker and Genobley.

Tim definitely was a leader.

I think Manu, you know, is one of those guys that definitely leader himself

and Tony as well.

But Tim, even though he's quiet,

it was still his team.

He wasn't leading by like loudness of voice.

It was more like

directional.

Well, one, you know,

he's working his butt off, right?

So I think he's one of those guys that he leads by showing, but also he's very

thoughtful with when he does speak.

And he's the type of guy that when he speaks, everybody listens.

Right.

And so I think his leadership style was kind of a mixture of those two.

I feel that you mentioned Spolstra was one of your favorite coaches.

Were there any coaches you had that you didn't see eye to eye with?

Mike D'Antoni.

On the Knicks, yeah, because he's all about offense, right?

Yeah, you know, I was young, too.

I take some of the blame with that, right?

Because I was coming from San Antonio and in San Antonio, you know,

defense is a big priority with Coach Popovich.

And so, you know, when I got to the Knicks,

there was no talk of defense.

And we were getting carved up defensively.

And I remember, you know, early on, and this was a mistake on my end, we had practice.

And I said, well, instead of doing it like this, you know, when I was in San Antonio, this is how we would do it.

And I could tell.

that that did not go over well with Mike D'Antoni because I didn't see the court.

He did not, he refused to play me.

And And yeah, and I always kind of wondered, like,

you know, why they bring me in if they didn't want to play me.

And so I think my conversations about Spurs defense didn't sit over too well with him.

Interesting.

Yeah, he's always had good teams, but he's never been able to win a chip.

You know what I mean?

But he's had some solid teams.

I think Suns and then the Knicks.

I don't know where he's at now, but he's always been like between the two and five seed.

But he could never win that chip.

And I think it could be due to the defense, right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's an important part.

It's an important part of winning the championship.

Speaking of defense, you prided yourself on that.

You were a really good defender.

Who were like the toughest matchups you had to face in your career?

Toughest matchups for me are two players.

And I mean, I played my first game, I played

the first few games, Michael Jordan, but it was a different Jordan.

But,

you know, Iverson was really tough to guard.

Baron Davis

was to me one of the hardest guards

to cover.

Yeah, so explosive, so strong, like, you know, has moves, could shoot it.

Like, he's an under, he's underrated as far as the type of talent he was.

Like, he was a load.

Him and Steph Marlbury, both of those guys, their explosiveness were off the charts.

Those guys were tough to guard.

And then kind of later in my career,

you know, D-Wade was always

a challenge.

Yeah.

And obviously Kobe.

You know, I played against Kobe a ton and it was always a fun challenge with him.

Yeah.

Did you ever have any people guiding you on like mentorship, on any skills in the game?

Yeah,

definitely, man.

I had amazing mentors and guys and vets.

You know, when I first got into NBA, a guy named Pete Myers was one of the assistant coaches in the front office, and he had played a while.

He's somebody that really kind of helped me.

A guy that I didn't like at the time, Rick Brunson, actually actually Jalen Brunson's dad.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, we almost fought several times.

Really?

Yeah, I mean, and I never, there's nobody really that I ever

got into it with in the NBA.

He was the one that just, we just did not like each other.

And,

but one thing he did is, is he really instilled a toughness early in my career.

And, you know, guys like him, Jalen Rose,

they were hard on me, but it actually helped me,

you know, last 11 years in the league oh so they were your teammates they were my teammates and they were hard on you yeah yeah and jalen and i ended up being very close friends over the years nice yeah so you said you trash talking wasn't really part of your game uh if you woke if you woke me up it would be but you know i wasn't like seeking you know talking trash to players but um if if it if it if you opened me up to it i would i remember um my last year playing i was playing against cow well pope oh yeah with the pistons He was with the Pistons at the time.

Chauncey Billis was still on the team.

Wow.

And he said something to me at the free throw line.

He's a rookie.

Yeah, he's a rookie.

And he's like talking trash

and like

said something.

And I hadn't scored.

I was, you know, but when he started talking to me, man, I probably scored, I don't know, 12, 14 points in that quarter.

And after the game, I came to Chauncey.

I said, man, tell that young fella, don't wake a sleeping beast, man.

Yeah, yeah.

Man, it's different these days.

These rookies are getting away with a lot.

I feel like back in your day, you couldn't really speak like that, you know?

Yeah, no, you'd have a vet that lets you know.

So when you retired in 14, you went to the NBA PA for three years, you said?

Yeah.

What was that like throughout the process?

You know, that was an adjustment

because as much business that I was doing and I thought I knew it was a whole new world, you know, in that environment.

And Michelle Roberts was just an amazing mentor for me.

Someone that, you know, I guess Forbes had her as the most powerful woman in sports at one point and first woman to lead a sports union.

And so, and she's a lawyer.

So I really got to learn a lot from her

and, you know, how to operate in kind of corporate America.

I mean, you know, the difference between a players association and a, you know, Fortune 500 business is obviously it's not for profit, but a lot of the things that I learned were really helpful for me in my business journey.

Yeah.

So what exactly does the NBAPA do?

So the NBA Players Association is essentially the union that protects the players, right?

So make sure that players are protected, whether it's from their agents, making sure there's rules in place there, negotiate with the NBA on the salaries.

Obviously, that's the number one thing.

Oh, they help with that?

Yeah, the Players Association does a negotiation.

Oh, wow.

So when there's a CBA,

right, you know, the players, and the owners, you know, we have to come together to decide how do we split the pie up, Right.

So if the pie is, you know, back in 2010, the players were getting 57%

of all the revenue.

Wow.

The owners were getting 43%.

Okay.

That 57% is essentially where the contracts come from.

Got it, got it.

Right.

That gives you the salary cap.

When we had the lockout, the owners were like, we don't like this arrangement.

We're going to lock you out.

And now when we go back to negotiate with the players association, you know, we're going to, we're going to renegotiate what that split is.

And so that split went from 57% to 50%.

And so that was a really big change in the dynamic.

And so now it's still a 50-50 split.

But essentially the Players Association, you know, they draft the CBA in partnership with the NBA.

So all the rules, all the salary cap, there can be no changes to the NBA without the Players Association.

coming together with the NBA to approve it.

Wow.

I never knew they came up with the salary caps and everything.

Yeah.

so the NBA comes up with the salary caps, but the NBPA, you know, negotiates what those numbers are, what those numbers look like.

And you've seen the numbers go up every year, pretty much, right?

Seen the numbers go up.

A lot of the catalysts, like the sports, the media rights deal, right, which is coming up here in the next year or so.

So, yeah, I mean, it was a great opportunity for me to really learn the business of basketball.

Yeah.

You know, you're drafting a CBA with the lawyers.

You're seeing the mid-level exception.

You're seeing all the exceptions.

And so so really, really great opportunity for me to really grow in my knowledge of the CBA.

Nice.

And then where did you go after that three-year tenure?

After that three-year tenure, I went to start my company, Vaughn, and I got approached

by IceCube to start the big three with him and be the first president commissioner of that.

So I did that with Cube,

wrote the official rules.

you know, did the whole thing.

It was a great experience that first year.

And then I left and started really focusing on my company, Vaughn.

Nice.

And what exactly does Vaughn do?

So Vaunt does two things.

One, we create content, media shows.

One show we did with Post Malone.

Oh, that was you guys.

World Pong League.

Yeah, I saw that.

Yeah, that's Vaughn.

We did that in partnership with Dre London.

So that was a really cool one.

You guys should run that back.

That was lit.

We're working on season two right now.

Yeah, yeah, working on season two right now on that.

And then on the other side, we create alternative sports competitions.

Okay.

So, you know, if you've ever seen the match where Phil and Tiger Woods play one-on-one,

we create those types of competitions in our offseasons.

Yeah, I think

Steph and Clay just golfed here.

They played.

Was that you guys?

That was the match.

No, that wasn't us, but that's just an example of

the types of things we do.

That's cool, man.

Yes, you're all about content and celebrities and content, partnering the two industries.

Yep, yep.

And also, you know, creating live sporting events.

You're about the three-on-three basketball, right?

I'm sorry?

The three-on-three basketball?

Yeah.

How many teams were in that league?

How many teams did we have when we started?

I'm not sure.

Maybe it was

maybe it was 10.

I don't even remember.

Okay.

And then now it's probably grown a bit.

Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah, it's cool to see basketball kind of having multiple leagues instead of just the NBA, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's an appetite for it, especially in the months like now where there's not a whole lot of sports to choose from.

The NFL hasn't started yet.

Summer league's over with.

There's no NBA game.

So there's some pockets of time where

people still want to see the sport.

Yeah.

And now you're out here in Vegas with the USA basketball team.

What's that been like?

No, it's been great.

It's been great.

You know, I worked with Minnesota Timberwolves as well.

And Anthony Edwards, obviously, Nas Reed was playing on the select team.

So spent some time with those guys.

Nice.

How's the team been looking?

They look strong.

They look strong.

I mean, I think they're very young.

Yeah.

Which I think is a good thing, allowing those guys to grow.

I think it's going to be a competitive World Cup, though.

So, you know, we'll see what happens with Team Canada if Jamal Murray plays.

But, you know, Jamal Murray and Shai Gilchrist in the back court would be interesting.

Yeah, that'd be cool.

Yeah.

But I mean, I love the USA team, and I think they'll be fine.

Who won it last time?

World Cup?

U.S.

U.S.

Do they win it like every time, pretty much?

No, no.

You know, I don't know the history of it, but I know Argentina has won, you know, the Olympic.

Oh, with Genobley.

Yeah, with Genoi.

You know, I'm not sure who won

if the World Cup has been dominated by the U.S.

or not.

Yeah, I remember when they lost at Olympics, it was like a huge deal because the team was stacked and they lost somehow.

Yeah, yeah, that's the whole Redeemed team.

Yeah, there was like a documentary about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you see the Jordan documentary?

Of course.

That was sick.

Yeah, of course.

And you got to play against him?

I got to play against him.

We had the same trainer, Tim Grover.

So when I was from D.C.,

when he was playing with the Wizards and I was still in college, you know, I got a chance to meet him.

That guy's a legend, obviously.

You ever talk to him?

When I see him,

you know, we're not in touch often, but when I see him, it's always love.

Yeah.

He just sold the Hornets, right?

$3 billion.

So he's got like, because he was already a billionaire before that, right?

He's made all the right business moves.

Doesn't hurt being Jordan.

Yeah, it definitely doesn't.

What athletes do you see getting to that billion dollar mark like him?

Athletes that I see getting to the billion dollar mark.

I mean, LeBron's already there.

I think a guy like Chris Paul, who's not only done so well on the court, but he's been a great investor, a great kind of entrepreneur.

Yeah.

It wouldn't surprise me if, you know,

years from now, we're talking about him as another NBA player that's a billionaire.

That'd be cool.

I think KD has a good shot, too.

100%.

Yeah, because he's already investing heavy.

100%.

KD and his partner, Rich, they've done a great job of expanding his portfolio.

And boardroom, obviously, is dope.

So KD, 100%, I think we'll get it.

Have you made any solid investments?

Were you making any as a player or did it sort of come after?

Yeah, I wasn't really making investments as a player.

I was more so building my own businesses.

Yeah.

And so that for me has been more of my lane.

I've made some small bets here and there.

Nothing crazy.

But

we'll see where those goes.

I think they'll be successful.

You know, one that I'm really excited about is this company called Plant Press, which is similar to like Celsius, but it's super healthy.

And I'm getting some guys involved in that, but I think that's going to be a win.

It's an energy drink?

It provides energy, but it's not necessarily classified as an energy drink.

Gotcha.

It's like all natural plant.

Yep.

Nice.

Are you vegetarian?

Vegan for five years.

Yeah.

Five years?

Yeah.

I went vegan

six years ago.

Wow.

And just recently over the last year, I started introducing a little bit of fish.

Yeah, yeah.

But I'm still plant-based, still no meat.

I haven't had red meat in almost 14 years.

Wow.

Yeah, I remember eating out with you at some sushi restaurant here, and you were going in on that

one fish.

Yeah.

I forget which one it was, but

five years.

What inspired you to do that?

What originally inspired me to stop eating meat is just...

you know, I saw how we treat our meat here, like adding a lot of stuff to it.

And my mom actually had gotten cancer.

And so we were looking at ways to, you know, increase her likelihood of beating it.

Yeah.

And her eating was one.

So I originally stopped eating red meat with her.

My body just felt better.

I had more energy.

I slept better.

So I just kept going with it.

And then when I retired, you know, the first few years, you know, I was continuing eating the same way.

And one day I just said, let me just try going vegan for two weeks.

And two weeks turned to five years.

You know, I just felt better slept better you know for me it really worked yeah but after a while I did start really missing fish and so I figured I'd give it a try and see how my body reacted to it because you need some protein right you do yeah so it's tough to get that as a vegan I feel like there's ways to do it you know there's definitely ways to do it and you know I ate a lot of protein shakes but What I didn't want to do is start depending too much on fake meat because that's processed and I try to stay away from those things.

So the fish is what allowed me to still keep a healthy lifestyle.

And you eat wild card only, right?

That's right.

Yeah, because that farmer stuff is terrible for you.

Yeah, that's what they say.

It's nasty.

Well, what are you working on next, man?

And where can people find you?

Yeah, people can find me at MoneyMace8 on Instagram, Money Mace on Twitter.

Just continuing to build Vaunt and, you know, hope to bring a championship to Minnesota.

All right, let's get it.

Thanks for coming on, man.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Thanks for watching, guys.

Peace.