Dr Trish Leigh On The Defeating Addiction, Semen Retention and the Cause of Nightmares | DSH #194

Well, I specialize in helping people recover from f ⁇ ing.

Amazing.

So people can become suicidal from just being addicted to it.

Yes.

And you can't get the reward out of life anymore because your brain's been so desensitized.

Oh, you're anti-s ⁇ .

I'm like, I'm not anti-s at all.

Go have as much s as you want.

Just do it with another human being that you actually care about.

Welcome back to the Digital Social Hour, guys.

I'm your host, Sean Kelly, here with an awesome guest for you guys today, Dr.

Trish Lee.

Hey, thank you.

Thanks for having me.

I'm excited to be here.

So let's get right into it.

What do you specialize in?

Let's, let's get into it.

Well, I specialize in helping people recover from action.

And I actually

prefer to think of myself as an educator trying to empower and inspire people to understand what's happening so that they can make smart choices around consumption.

And

so how many people would you say are actually struggling with this addiction?

It's vast majority of people.

And, you know, right now the scientific numbers show that it's in the 70% range.

67% of men consume

weekly.

But those are the men who are willing to admit it in a study, which is, you know, I would say not the majority.

You know, I work with so many men and I have social media platforms.

I have a YouTube channel where I interact with people.

And, you know, I would say the vast majority, but a point I would like to make today is that this thing exists on a continuum.

So it exists on a continuum from, you know, people who watch

here and there and maybe don't have an issue with it.

I would contend it's still not good for them.

But then that continuum goes all the way to people whose lives are malfunctioning and they are suicidal because of

and that's a vast continuum that I would say is

impacting just about everybody.

And the people it's not impacting, they've actively made a choice.

Wow, that's crazy.

So people can become suicidal from just being addicted to it.

Yes.

What do you think causes that?

Well, I know what causes it is it is, you know, I have become a meme on TikTok, which, you know, I have a lot of, I have five teenage children.

So, of course, they think it's funny and tragic that I've become a meme on TikTok for damages your brain.

Somebody actually took one of my videos.

It wasn't me who put it out there and

sent it out there.

And I didn't even know how TikTok worked.

But then it's been stitched millions and millions and millions of times of people doing stupid things because their brains are damaged from consumption.

So the reality is that

decreases functioning in especially the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain

and it desensitizes the reward center.

So if you're kind of knocking out functioning in your brain over and over and over, what happens is then you are not able to make good decisions.

You can't function and go to work and your relationships, you know, break down.

And you can't get the reward out of life anymore because your brain's been so desensitized.

And when you can't find the rewards in your life, you're suicidal because life should be enjoyable and should be fun.

Yeah.

So, how would you define the addiction?

Is it daily, weekly?

Like, what's the threshold?

Yeah.

So, this is a question I get a lot.

And unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

And I wish it did because it would be easier to say, oh, if you watch time a week, you have a addiction.

But again, I guess continuum is going to be a thing I say here a lot is that

use starts out as use.

And then it kind of keeps brewing into misuse.

And then misuse becomes abuse.

Abuse becomes compulsion.

When you find yourself at the place of compulsion, compulsion means you have to go back to it to feel okay.

That's kind of the threshold of

you've just kind of gone over using because it feels good.

You now have to use it so you don't feel bad.

And when you get to that place, you compulsion, you're on your way to addiction.

And addiction is you really feel bad unless you get your hit.

Right.

Now, you mentioned you have five kids.

So what's your strategy there?

Because that probably worries you, right?

Yeah.

Well, not really now that has become my business, I guess.

Because before that, I mean, I worry for other people's families, honestly.

And I have to stay vigilant with my, with my kids.

I have boys and girls.

So.

You know, it's just about communication.

And again, it goes back to education and empowerment.

If you know that something you're doing, it goes back to smoking.

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Here in the Wynn Hotel and I'm staying in the hotel and I walk in and I'm like, oh, what's that smell?

It's the smell of like smoke and hope for that people are going to win a lot of money.

But, you know, 50 years ago, this place would have been filled with people smoking.

Now I'm like, who's smoking?

And there's one person.

And you know why?

Because all the other people figured out smoking k you.

And it's literally the new smoking.

It's been characterized that way, not just by me where you know people do it everybody's basically doing it because they don't realize it's bad for them

but when we see this threshold and when we see it's gonna tip in 10 maybe 20 years because of high-speed internet

it's gonna tip where all the young people are going to have bigger issues and then it will begin to be recognized that we have a problem here yeah because it leads to erectile dysfunction too right it does in young men and very young men You know, I work with people who are early 20s, and it's going to create this snowball effect that there's performance issues, erectile dysfunction being the primary one, but there's a lot of other ways it impacts people.

You know, not being able to perform creates so much more anxiety.

So young men are choosing

over being with human women.

because they can't perform or they have so much anxiety plus the pullback to there because it's addictive so like they're pulled back to it.

Plus, now they can't engage in health.

So, like, with my teenage sons, you know, it's like it's a totally weird place to be.

Because if you asked me this 10 years ago, you know, where I'm encouraging my son to be with girls,

but he's really cute.

And he, my 19-year-old, he really, he's holding out.

He doesn't have a girlfriend right now.

He'd kill me if he knew I was saying this out loud.

But he doesn't have a girlfriend, but he's, he's like, Ma, I could be with a ton of girls if I wanted, but he he wants to be with someone in an intimate way, not just in a hookup way.

And hookups are the way of the, you know, the present right now too, which is a problem.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the hookup culture too.

Now with the

addiction, I mean, I know people that watch it three times a day, you know, twice a day, whatever it is.

Is it like, what's the way to fix it if you're quote unquote addicted?

Yeah.

So again, I wish that was.

you know, easy button that we could do that.

At the core of a addiction, well, there's two things that need to be done.

And neither are that easy, honestly, is

addiction really is about unhealthy mood regulation.

And this is proven scientifically.

So people are using it to de-stress primarily and secondarily boredom.

But stress is like double the amount of boredom.

So the number one thing you need to do is figure out how to de-stress in healthy ways.

And when people have a addiction, over time, it becomes the one tool to de-stress.

So like if you're young and if you haven't been using

that much or that long, you know, you still might like go to de-stress sometimes, but go to basketball or go to hanging out with your friends.

But I always, you know, I have a lot of cliche things that I say to try to help people understand.

I always say that there's no such thing as a horizontal spiral.

In your life, you're either in a downward spiral or an upward spiral.

So you need 20 ways to de-stress that are healthy and no longer using,

but is addictive.

So it's going to pull you back.

So during that, you know, time when when you leave, there will be withdrawal symptoms.

Right.

And that can be challenging.

And then the second thing is healthy.

So when you leave behind, it's important that you go into the world.

And, you know, humans are beings.

So people criticize me like, you know, oh, you're anti-s.

I'm like, I'm not anti-s at all.

Go have as much s as you want.

Just do it with another human being that you actually care about because it's supposed to have intimacy at the core.

And that's what's got lost.

So, if you want to fix a problem,

one, find ways to de-stress, find ways to fill your life so you're not bored.

Number two, go have a ton of s with someone you care about.

I love that.

So, are you against

as a whole, or do you recommend it?

See, no, I love this.

I'm not against anything.

I'm not against, you know, against is a loaded word.

That's like, I'm here because I don't want people to do this.

I want people to realize that it is harming you if you are in a place of compulsive.

Now, that's the difference.

So compulsive.

Compulsive means what I just told you is you're going back to it so you don't feel bad.

And you're using it as a quote-unquote.

So it becomes a dependency.

And it really does.

So, you know, I work with people who

five, six, seven times a day.

And it's really just because they can't get through a workday and through an evening with their family without getting a hit of dopamine.

Wow.

So, what we're talking about here is a dopamine dependency.

So, I'm not against any of this, really.

So, like, if you don't have a compulsive

problem and if you don't consume,

go for it.

And when I'm helping people to recover from,

I encourage them to do something.

I know how cheesy it sounds.

So, just to preface it,

I encourage people to do something called

meditation, which actually I got the phrase from one of my clients.

I thought it was a cool way of articulating it, where it's like using

to stay with the sensations in your body and not go to fantasy.

Fantasy is really one of the core issues.

And,

you know, you're going to fantasy because you're trying to escape your life.

It's an escapism mechanism.

So, you know, I'm not against it.

It's, I'm against people trashing their brains because they're using masturbation as a way to get high levels of dopamine.

Those high levels of dopamine are is what is giving them the desensitization in their brain.

It's giving them all the issues that they have.

And the reason it's so important for me to educate people is because they don't get the issues that they struggle with are because of their habit.

They're not connecting it at all.

So, you know, I'm not against it.

I just want people to live their best lives with the fullest potential that they can.

I want them to figure out, okay, this is the thing that I want to do.

This is the thing that jazzes me up.

And I want them to go do that.

And so many people aren't.

And I don't want them to be stuck in front of a screen watching for hours and hours, stuck in their bathrooms

because they can't figure out how to get on purpose and to stay on purpose.

Yeah.

Did you see this issue when you were growing up as a teenager, or do you think technology has sort of enhanced it?

Technology is completely, you know, at the root of this problem.

And, you know, I wasn't looking for it as a teenager, but, you know, as a teenager, there was, you know, just think about the difference with social media, which, you know, we know most social media is media is the reality.

You know, sells is always sold.

Right.

But like, it wasn't 24-7 everywhere.

And people didn't have in their pockets either, you know.

So, you know, we now know from science and studies that their kids are watching all day long at school.

Really?

Yeah.

They're, you know, they're whipping it out to get a little dopamine, dopamine hit.

They don't know that.

They don't know that.

Did not expect that one.

Wow.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

And the kids who, you know, people find

when they're, usually it's between eight and 12 years old.

Really?

You know, I've talked to thousands of men, thousands.

That's early.

Yeah.

And that's when people find.

Wow.

And back in the day, going back to your question, back in the day,

young men, it's primarily men, but women,

the use in women is growing.

Young men were exposed by an older brother.

So like, you know, to a magazine.

Yeah.

Totally different than high-speed internet.

So, you know, they were exposed and then they might have found someone's stash.

And so they weren't getting all that dopamine over and over and over.

And now it's everywhere.

So, you know, it's, you pull up any social media platform.

And really, it's if you're looking for it, it will find you.

And people don't understand how.

I think their phone use works is, you know, we all have an IP address.

So, you know, if I want a pair of sneakers and I look at them on a website, those pair of sneakers follow me around until I purchase them.

Online, that is, you know, everywhere I go, those sneakers and I'm like, oh, I want those sneakers.

Same thing.

If you're searching for,

then it follows you.

So in today's day and age, it pops up.

I mean, it seems to be everywhere on social media just because of this movement.

So it's like unavoidable at this point.

Yeah, well, and, you know, I heard people, I overheard people talking about, you know, if TikTok will ever go away or, you know, certain platforms where it's just becoming so sexualized.

and you know i hope it tips back into where that's not the only thing we're looking for online you know it really is just overkill with and i feel terrible i have three daughters also so i feel terrible for young women people say to me all the time you know why don't you tell all these young women to put some clothes on i'm like i can only do that i only have the bandwidth for three young women because i'm trying to help the world stop watching

And, you know, young women are learning to be objectified.

They're learning to be the objects.

Objectification is a huge aspect of consumption because the more you watch,

you forget those are people.

Again, I know it's cliche that's someone's daughter, you know, but the reality is you lose sight of that because women become objects for s.

So, you know, it's tricky when you're just watching that and it's everywhere.

So even you pull up on your phone and, you know, there's young women being.

Yeah, it's scary, man.

Do you worry about that with your daughters, like their use of social media and stuff?

Some more than the the others and uh one of my daughters again would probably

if she knew i said that but i have the conversations with her yeah but you know at the same time i'm not prudish because i'm trying to be a mom who raises my daughters to make good choices so you know one of my daughters in particular is more into all of that.

So I'm really trying to help her make good choices.

And I talk with her all the time.

I don't make her do anything.

Actually, I've made her do a couple of things.

But like for the most part, I'm just trying to teach her.

And the other two, it's not going to impact them.

Yeah, I don't even have kids yet, but it's definitely something I worry about, you know, because it's so influential between social media and just the schooling system, like all the stuff they're learning.

Yeah.

And, you know, an interesting thing is with my kids grew up, my oldest is 20, my youngest is 12.

So my kids grew up and me as a parent, phones were just coming online as they grew up.

But if I had to do it over, I would not give them phones.

Really?

Uh-huh.

They all got phones when they were pretty young because it was, you know, it's a difficult choice because that's how they stay connected to other people.

And it is about connection these days.

But I probably would have waited a little longer.

I would have managed them more than I did until, you know, now they're young adults.

So I'd have to teach them to manage it.

I would have actually managed it more.

Yeah.

I got my first one in high school, which was, which was good because I got to live out my childhood without technology and I got to actually go outdoors and stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's important because either you learn to do that or not.

Yeah.

And it's a lost thing.

Like when I see kids playing outside these days, it's like, wow, I haven't seen that in a while, you know?

Absolutely.

I know I go for runs every day and I'm like, where are the kids?

You know what I mean?

And that's exactly it.

And my kids, my son, who is 17, he's a big gamer, loves to game, you know, he's gaming all the time.

But I did teach him how to manage his computer.

So he knows like you can game for a while, but then you need to go outside.

So it's funny because he'll be gaming and then I'll hear the basketball, you know, and it's just like he's fulfilling a requirement, but I'm like, that's okay because he's going to learn game life, game life.

Yeah.

So what was this talk like with your husband?

Because I'm assuming he used to watch it.

What was that talk like?

Well, it's interesting.

And because, yeah, so, you know, he's definitely watched it to a certain extent, but

he was not on board with this whole thing.

Like he was not on board with it when I first.

found out and I tried to talk to him and tell him like, you know, this

damages your brain.

Does this.

Nobody wants to hear that who watches

and nobody cares at first.

Right.

But people have to be inspired.

So it's pretty funny because what happened was I'm like, I'm into something and you're not going to like it.

And I don't keep secrets from him.

We don't keep secrets.

I'm like, do you want me to tell you about it?

And he's like, no.

So.

That's when I started the YouTube channel.

I didn't even mean to start my YouTube channel.

I like figured this thing out about.

it was really like aching me because i knew how many people are impacted yeah someone that i know was impacted by it and i started to work with them so i just dug into the research i put one video out on youtube i've always had a channel about brain rewiring but i made a video and i put it out on a different channel because i didn't want to put a video out i put it out on a different channel that had no videos it was just i just put it out i just created a new channel put this video out and it's like three months later i get you know an email email in my inbox your video has been viewed three million times or something like i'm like whoa what video is this i'm going into my my original channel and it's like you know 400 views yeah i'm like what is going on like what video and then i'm then i look in that email i'm like oh my gosh it's the video

so i go over to that channel and i'm like people want to hear this I was blown away.

Honestly, I was blown away.

I can remember sitting up, my office is on the top floor of my house.

And I remember sitting in this, like these lounge chairs I have and being like, am I going for this?

Am I actually going to do this?

So I started making consistent content.

And that's when I said to my husband, I had been talking to him about the thing, but he was not listening to me about the thing.

But that's not the first time either because I've been into other things that, you know, which we always usually get on the same page and go towards, you know, full potential.

So anyways, then on January 1st, it was New Year's Eve.

I'm like, babe, I've got to tell you the thing that I've been doing.

Oh, so you didn't even tell him you dropped the video?

No, I had been making consistent content by then.

Oh, and that's why I said to him, like, I'm doing a thing.

You're not going to like it.

Because I kept trying to kind of tell him about the like, you know, people have to stop watching entirely.

He totally was a guy who thought, like, watching a little bit is no big deal.

And I now know watching, you know, going back to your question about threshold and we can dig in there, but I now know watching a little bit is problematic.

Really?

Yeah.

Even if it's like just once a month, even if it's just once a month.

Because what it does is it's super addictive.

And it goes back to, you know,

people find it when they're 12.

That's when the seeds of addiction are planted.

So, like, even if you go back to it once a month, and, you know, people will watch f.

You know, you're out there listening.

You, you know, the feeling.

You know the rush you get in your brain.

It's not a rush you get from anything else.

And that rush is called a super normal stimulus.

And we know how powerful it is to bring you back.

And that goes back to the horizontal spiral.

There is not a horizontal spiral.

Most people do not keep watching one time a month.

It's one time a month until it's two times a month.

Yeah, yeah.

Until it's every week, until it's every other day.

You know, there's tolerance building just like

there's escalation just like

so like

it's not a thing this once a month thing.

So so yeah, if we had the conversation, I'm like, you know, I'm not comfortable with it.

And I work with partners too.

I have a partner's program.

It's called Sanity After betrayal

and

you know betrayal the

betrayal trauma is a thing that's what happens in partners when they find out that the person that they've been with for 20 years has all these behaviors and we should probably discuss the fact that

does lead to other behaviors it doesn't usually stay at

So, you know, the betrayal that the partner experiences is actually the betrayal to herself.

Wow.

Because she doesn't want to to speak up and say, stop watching.

And so a partner will just stay in a relationship with a boyfriend or a hubby who's doing a thing they don't actually feel cool about.

And, you know, a lot of women are doing this because younger women are learning to become the objects.

So they're like, me, I can just be my boyfriend's object of desire, but it doesn't work that way.

You're one object of desire if, you know, your man's continuing to consume.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Looking back on it, because I used to watch it, I was pretty depressed.

And I never like put the dots together, you know?

I never realized it was probably partially related to.

Yeah, totally.

That's what I'm talking about.

That depression is a dopamine deficit.

Yeah.

And the way that I talk about it is that it's a 4D cycle of.

So when you think you're going to watch,

you get a dopamine drip and it starts to feel good in your brain.

You know, everybody thinks it's in their loins.

It's in their brain where it begins to feel good.

That dopamine starts to flow.

and that drip you literally have three seconds this is proven by science you have three seven seconds and i tell people run don't walk pivot in the opposite direction and you have three seconds until what i call the dopamine deluge deluge deluge means flood so now dopamine is flooding into your system making you feel even better and it's pulling you towards

then you have a dopamine drowning and it drowns out your brain and that's killing the the d2 dopamine receptors in the reward center wow they're basically being drowned out that's how they get desensitized crazy but then you go back to your life and you feel depressed because you're in a dopamine deficit yeah it's hard to find those those rushes anywhere else you know what i mean you can't find the rushes anywhere else super normal stimulus it's the highest super normal stimulus

so what do you think about this no f semen retention movement because i've been seeing it recently and I've seen mixed things about like the health risks and stuff.

What do you think about it?

I think the no f ⁇ movement is a a very cool movement.

Like I can buy into that.

Semen retention, I'm not a huge fan of long term.

And I do think if you have a problem and you get into no fap or semen retention, that's going to be really good for you, a good bridge into healthy s.

But I'm into healthy s.

So I don't think anybody should be quote unquote retaining semen for any amount of time.

And I don't, I honestly, I think it, it harms people's efforts in trying to create a balanced full potential life yeah because a full potential life should include a partner in crime you know a pic that you love to spend your time with but you can you know raise your freak flag and get your groove on too

now does affect testosterone levels because there's guys with low testosterone is that caused by

yes and you know we know

and

will deplete testosterone levels and it's pretty easy to conceptualize I think, in that, you know, we talked about how if your brain is being desensitized, it's changing the way that your brain uses electrical energy.

That's the work that I do.

I can see the electrical energy patterns using technology.

I can see how people's brains are performing.

That changes the cascades of neurotransmitters and the cascade of how hormones and how the whole rest of your body works.

So, like, basically, if you're always putting your brain into this unhealthy, dysregulated brain pattern, not the optimal brain pattern, you are changing the way neurotransmitters cascade and you're changing the way that hormones are being released in your body.

And the number one way is cortisol.

So we know that when you have increased cortisol, which is from stress,

and becomes a stressor on your nervous system,

you're using it to de-stress, but it's creating more stress within the system, which is unironic, I guess.

So basically, you're increasing your cortisol levels, which will impact testosterone levels.

So to answer your question, it's not necessarily even a matter of how do you increase your testosterone levels.

It's how do you optimize them back to where they would be if you weren't consuming.

Wow.

I never knew stress affected testosterone levels.

That makes a lot of sense though.

Yeah.

And so

I, a huge part of my program, I have a 90-day program.

I call it a complete essential guide to recovery.

And in that 90-day program, figuring out your stressors, creating a flexibly scheduled life and balancing your life, decreasing stress and then managing it is a huge portion of what I help people do to be able to rewire their brains.

Right.

Is there a way to measure your cortisol levels?

Yeah, you can have blood tests to measure cortisol levels for sure.

What I do in my work is I can see, again, it's called EEG, electroencephalogram.

So I do something called a brain map.

I can map people's brains.

It's pretty wild, actually.

It's very cool.

I mean, I've been doing it for a really long time, but applying it to

addiction is really cool because there's essentially two main patterns that develop in a person's brain if they've been consuming.

I can see the brain pattern of a person who's still stuck in that 4D cycle.

Wow.

Pretty wild.

And then if a person has tipped into, I call it drain brain, just to articulate it easily.

If people have tipped into drain brain, those are people who feel really depressed.

Those are people who have erectile dysfunction and even

doesn't get, you know, arouse them anymore.

They have serious arousal dysfunction problems in the brain.

I can see that brain pattern too.

Really?

So, like, basically the first one, I can see high levels of stress.

And then all the work I do, I offer something called neurofeedback and neurofeedback and coaching.

Neurofeedback's all data-based.

So I do the brain map.

I see how a person's brain is performing.

But then over time, as I coach a person, I can see those levels change.

Really?

And I can see them achieve the optimal brain pattern.

So when people work with me personally, I can, you know, Cheerios can guarantee they lower your cholesterol.

I can't guarantee that I can help people, but I can almost guarantee that I can shift a person's brain into the optimal mode.

That's really cool.

So how do they go about getting that stand done?

On my website there, my website's drtrishly.com.

And under the tab for personal neurofeedback coaching, there's a tab that says QEEG brain map.

And is it like a machine or how does it work?

You know, it's all, thankfully, because of advances in technology now, it's all home-based.

Oh, yeah.

So there's a piece of technology when you sign up for the map.

You have to purchase.

It's very affordable.

Anybody can afford it, basically.

So I work with people of all socioeconomic levels, which is important to me.

You purchase this piece of technology.

We mail you a sensor and paste.

You connect the sensor to the, it's a headband, and the headband and the sensor are EEG reading sensors and then using a professional app

You can take the brain map at home.

It takes 28 minutes and then your results automatically pop up in the app for you Wow.

And then people get on a zoom with me and we go through your brain for an hour because if you look at it yourself, you have no idea what it means.

That's mind-blowing that you could literally see addiction just by brain scans.

Yeah, and I can see magnitude too.

So like going back to, you know, what's the threshold, like I, the other day, I was on a Zoom with a gentleman who had a map and, you know, his map was much better than most of the maps that I look at.

And so I can tell him, you know, this is the magnitude.

Your brain is three levels away from the optimal level, where most of the people I work with, it's six levels or so.

And when you say optimal level, what does that look like?

What it looks like on the EEG, I call it the green zone.

Basically, it means that your brain is able to get into any state that it needs to.

And the way I talk about it is that our brains have different speeds that our brain is supposed to be able to shift in in and out of.

So it's like an automatic transmission.

So like if your brain's using the green zone on the green map, you don't even think about it.

Your brain's just shifting in and out of those gears.

You're able to go to sleep.

You know, you get groggy, you feel sleepy, you're able to sleep all night long, you get up, you're able to feel chill and calm.

Then you're able to focus and crank out your best work.

But then you're able to feel relaxed again again in the evening.

A lot of people can't do this, by the way.

And then you're able to get into full restorative sleep all night long.

That's what the green zone looks like.

And so, these different levels away, I can see if people have sleep problems, I can see if people have erectile dysfunction.

That's crazy because I know people that could fall asleep instantly, and I'm always like, how?

Yeah, but that's not a good thing, though.

Oh, it's not when people fall asleep, it's supposed to take, and for a healthy, optimal brain, it's supposed to take 20 minutes to fall asleep.

Really?

Okay.

People who fall asleep instantly, they're exhausted.

They're likely in adrenal fatigue.

Those people typically will fall asleep instantly, but they'll wake up at 3 a.m.

And I made a video, a video saying, like, do you wake up at 3 a.m.?

And all the comments, how do you know?

How do you know?

How do you know?

You know, because like your brain's just basically fried.

It's exhausted.

It gets a little bit of sleep.

The sleep cycle, you're supposed to be able to move in and out of different speeds.

So the brain's not able to do that.

It's just kind of stuck.

So you wake up.

Interesting.

Wow.

It's been a pleasure.

I've learned so much.

Anything you want to close off with or promote?

No, I just want people to know this isn't a moral discussion, you know, and we can leave that for other people.

I just want people to know that

I think this is happening and why my content has taken off is that, you know, if any of this resonates with you and you have the feeling that isn't serving you anymore or it never has served you, that you can, many people I work with think they cannot overcome use.

They will give in to the notion like it just has to be this way because it can be difficult to walk away from.

Science shows, and I now know anecdotally, that if you have the right tools and you have the right support, which is what I offer people, you can do this.

And at the other side of recovering from is the life that you've always wanted.

So I want people to know that.

Love it.

Powerful message.

Thanks for watching, guys, and I'll see you next time.