He Is a Professional Sex Coach | Chetan Digital Social Hour #87

If you are afraid of your partner leaving

because something else is out there, if you're scared that some other guy's gonna take your girl, for example,

instead, you should just be the best version of yourself.

So ain't nobody gonna compete with you.

The idea of body count purity is like incredibly like naive.

Welcome to the Digital Social Hour.

I'm your host, Sean Kelly.

I'm here with my co-host, Wayne Lewis.

What up, what up?

And our guest today, Chaithin.

Hey, how's it going?

My guy.

How are you?

You good?

What's your job title?

What do you describe yourself as?

I describe myself as a lover and friend.

That's what my business card says, but I am technically a surrogate partner therapist.

And what exactly is that?

So surrogate partner therapist works within the triadic model, which was basically Masters and Johnson pioneered therapy as we know it.

And they created the triadic model.

And the triadic model basically is a surrogate partner who works from the neck down using their hands.

to create experiential opportunities for people to grow past blockages with sexual dysfunctions or intimacy blockages and they work in conjunction with a sex therapist who works on you know the mental part of it and in that process you give people experi you know hands-on opportunities to move past those those issues because you could you could talk about it all you want but until you're in the sheets like

you might not be able to change anything right about your actual experience.

And at the same time, in doing that, you end up generating a lot of useful information for the therapy.

So it works sort of in conjunction.

So that it's called triadic because you've got the client too, who's an active participant in the whole process.

And what type of clientele typically come to you?

Is it girls?

Is it guys?

What type of people?

For me, I work because I'm tragically straight.

I work with

AFAB and trans women, but I work with women.

Most surrogates are

female or AFAB people and what does AFAB mean assigned female at birth

so most surrogates like 80%

are and there's not a lot of us to begin with there's like a hundred of us maybe

in the country

so yeah that's that's low wow yeah like there's like probably 20 guys like me out there yeah so you guys get a lot of clients.

Well,

it's interesting.

So

surrogate partner therapy was its heyday was in the 80s, and then HIV came around and, you know, everybody

shut down.

And with massage therapy being more recognized, because like, you know, how massage parlor used to be like a...

a rub like you heard massage parlor and you thought yeah oh you know and so instead you know as as massage therapy became more recognized,

surrogate partner therapy actually was able to make a big resurgence

after a movie called The Surrogate came out in 2012.

And now is like the prime moment for us because.

So, is that what that movie was about?

I didn't watch it.

I don't know.

The surrogate?

Yeah, the surrogate.

About the guy with the iron lung.

Yeah.

And he needed, like, and he, like, went to this person who taught him how to have s, and then he had to.

Yeah, I didn't know what that movie was about

yeah that's crazy yeah

so that was that actually really helped bring it bring it about into the social conscious again and um now we're at like

just the perfect moment because sex work

is more accepted than ever and is like a big relevant conversation mental health is a big conversation sexual assault sexual trauma big conversation and all those, where do those circles intersect?

It intersects on

a hundred of us that are, you know, growing in numbers.

Wow.

But we're, you know, out here just trying to help people love their bodies more and live happier, you know, existences.

And how is surrogate partner therapy different from just pro?

Because the clients are paying you, right?

Yeah, so first off,

a surrogate partner works in conjunction with a s therapist.

So you don't like

just like hire a surrogate partner and like

hop in the sheets with them.

Like you work with your s therapist and if they think that you are a good candidate to work with a surrogate partner, you get referred to a surrogate partner.

That surrogate partner, first off, has they don't like we don't want you to be a repeat client for many many many unlimited amount of sessions.

We want to solve your problems.

So we're not.

What if the s ⁇ is just so good, though?

What?

What if it's just so good?

What if it's so good?

I mean,

we're helping people have the skills so that it's so good wherever they go.

You got you.

Not just with you.

Not just with me.

You got you.

And so, like,

our goal that's different than you're a normal s ⁇ s worker is that We want you to graduate from us.

We want you to be able to move on to a healthy, different place.

And the majority of our work does not actually involve

like it can involve intercourse,

but so much of what we do starts with just literally touching each, like helping somebody understand how to feel, truly feel their body, to live like a sensual life where they're really in their body.

They feel all of the touch that you're giving them, and they're able to provide touch with presence.

And so, you know, we're teaching people oftentimes the skills that they need to have a happy

life right so that they can go and if they want to from there go hire

workers you know go for it so there's it's so there's a science to accepting touch

yeah absolutely there's there's science there's an ex there's exercises yeah um they usually fall under the umbrella of what we call sensate focus but you know uh I like to say, you know, people should try to live a sensual life.

And what that means to me is, like, when you eat something, you should taste it.

Like, you should really taste it.

When you touch something, really feel it.

Be in your body.

Get all of the pleasure you can out of that.

And by doing that, since

not all sexual problems are psychological,

for sure.

And a lot of psychological problems become physical problems.

For example, with a lot of

women will have,

or AFAB people will have a lot of their trauma show up as really, really tight PC muscles.

Like, really, like, to the point sometimes where they can't fully avoid their bladder or they can't.

PC muscles like a vaginna?

Like, yeah, they're, they're, like, all the muscles that go across your vaginna and across your an

like that whole layer of muscles

can be, like, if with a lot of trauma, will oftentimes be so tight that you can't have intercourse.

Wow.

Or it's painful.

Or it's extremely painful.

Wow.

And then, guess what?

Once you get that in your head, as soon as you start thinking it,

you're not about to have.

Yo, this is so important.

This is important.

So the reality is...

getting people out of their head and into their body is

lets you get past a lot of these psychological things, right?

Like, I don't, every guy's lost a b

every guy has.

I don't care.

Don't, like, whatever you guys say.

No, no, I'm with you.

I agree.

I've lost a lot of them.

I lost it in the midst before.

And when you lose a bunch of work again.

And when you lose a bunch of what's the worst thing that can happen?

What's the worst thing that can happen?

Like, the next time you have s ⁇ , what's the worst thing?

If you lose it again.

I think that's it.

If you think about losing it that second time,

you're done.

Yeah.

Your goose is cooked.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

For me, if I lose it, I'm not coming back probably because there's a reason why I lost it.

Yeah, well,

and that's, you know, like, that's great.

And you don't,

like,

the reality of it is if you stop, if you don't build it in your head as, like, oh, what if it happens again?

What if I lose my bar?

Oh, like, especially when you're younger and that's, like, even more embarrassing.

And you're, like, you know, you take that as like a masculinity thing.

Like, no, for me, I'll blame it on them.

Getting that

getting that out of your head, though, is important.

Right.

Because if you get if you get that in your head once and then you lose it again,

and you lose it again,

you lose it again, it's gonna, you're going down a slippery slope, right?

So what we do a lot of times before ever

talking about real

contact is helping people get in their body because we're getting them out of their head.

Gotcha.

Because

a lot of problems are mental, you're saying.

Yeah, a lot of them are.

Like if you have

anxiety, if you have a lot of like

fear, a lot of shame, I mean, you can be over anxious too.

Oh, shame is just like

you can't have a vaj and not walk around with body issues in this country.

Or any part of the world, really.

Like you can't.

You just...

have a.

I should say

you can't have a

and walk around without body issues, right?

And when, you know, what's really hard is having an or

good s when you think you have to suck your stomach in the whole time.

Right?

Yeah, I wear body.

Because you're not comfortable.

You're not comfortable.

So you got to get people out of their head and into their body before you even get there.

So a prostitute,

a typical sex worker

is, you know, trying to get you off.

And if, like, I was on the way here, I was talking to

a colleague, and they were talking about a frustration about somebody who is claiming to be doing surrogate work and was

having intercourse with somebody after the, like, in the first or second session when, you know, they take

and rightfully, when my colleague rightfully takes their time and is like, we're going to do this exercise.

And guess what?

Even if you think that you got it, we're going to do it again.

Just like any other meditation.

It's mindfulness.

It's like truly being present in your body.

It's like, yeah.

So.

What do you think of this recent social media trend of people shaming girls with high body counts?

I mean, I think it's stupid.

You don't think it matters?

No.

Why would it matter?

Like, if you want to wife up a girl, you don't think it matters?

I don't think it matters at all.

I couldn't care less.

Really?

So she could have a thousand?

I have no idea how many people my wife has slept with.

She has no idea how many people I've slept with.

And I don't even care.

I don't even know how many people I've slept with.

Wow, so you have a wife.

It's not, it's not like...

It's not even like...

No, I'm just...

It's like, first off, the idea of purity is like incredibly naive, right?

And the other thing is, if you are afraid of your partner

leaving

because

something else is out there,

then you get two options, right?

There's guys who are like, oh, I don't want you going out to the club, right?

I don't want you wearing that, right?

That's one way of...

keeping that person and subjugating them so that they end up staying with you.

And it's subjugation.

I don't want them to wear it.

It's subjugation.

But

if you're scared that some other guy's gonna take your girl, for example,

instead, you should just be the best version of yourself so ain't nobody gonna compete with you.

So the idea of body count, first off, is like

a hysterically like naive concept in my mind.

In my mind.

Now, like, look, you like, we all come from a time and a place.

Right, right, right.

And, like,

like, if I said the same thing to

somebody who was born 30 years before me, or somebody who's born 30 years before them, they're going to have a much different version of the world, right?

And

so, we, so I, like, certainly never, like, want to tell somebody that the way that they feel is completely invalid, but the reality of it is, like,

what's the relevance?

Like, it's not like v is get looser because you have a lot of s ⁇ .

That's a a myth.

That's like not even a concept.

That's a myth?

Yeah, I thought that was true.

No, not in the least.

Really?

Yeah,

where did you get that information from?

Social media?

I mean, that's like the idea of like a loose is like the most

that is like

yeah, it's yeah, it's not real.

So what causes some to be looser than others then?

People have different levels of muscle tone.

Muscle tone, but it's size of your p.

It's it's people

have different levels of muscle tone, people have different levels of arousal, people every body is different, right?

And that's why, and every sexuality is different, and that's why people like to sleep with a bunch of people because everybody's unique, yeah, and you know, variety is like

one of the only true aphrodisiacs.

So, how good at s are you?

If I told you,

every person listening to this would blush.

Let me put it like that.

Okay.

Okay.

And how did you get to that level?

Yeah.

How'd you get to that level?

I really like s ⁇ s.

I don't know what to do.

So you're a nympho.

I really appreciate high-quality intimacy.

And I take my time.

So actually, the real answer to this question, and this is also where it connects with surrogacy

because I don't I don't want to make this really important work that people have my mentor has put her life into

I don't want to make a joke out of it it is that when I'm with a lover

when I'm with a client

I'm fully present

I'm full with every touch

I'm fully there.

And I will take the time to appreciate

every single bit and every curve and every crevice and every wrinkle and every bit of that person.

And I can almost guarantee you that they have not done that for themselves.

Wow.

And when you do that, it's not about different techniques.

It's not about

like,

oh, this is the right technique and that's the right technique.

It's not about that.

What makes really, really good s

is the presence that you carry in your touch.

Wow.

So just being really central, basically.

Yeah.

It's in the touch, so it's in the feeling.

Yeah,

it's in.

What makes for really good s is energy.

Exactly.

It's when you,

when you, it's not that you're like looking at it, you're looking at something and you're just like...

Like kind of like looking at it and passing by it like you're like really taking your time and you're observing it.

You're saying, oh, look how this like nicely moves like this.

You know, you're appreciating every bit of that person

with your eyes, with your hands.

You know, you're truly there.

And, you know, that's one part of it.

And what makes somebody a good lover in my book, the other part is to take the whole idea of there being a destination or being a single-faceted thing off the table.

And what do you mean by that?

Elaborate on it.

Like when I was walking in here, right, somebody said, oh, you know, you help people or somebody.

Take a single thing.

Take org off the table.

That's a single thing.

You could have amazing s without an org.

Take or

off the table, take,

you know, some sort of idea of what it looks like off the table, right?

Like, if you've only ever watched, like, porn

and there's just a whole bunch of jackrabbit, you know, like pounding, like, you got to take all that off the table because good s is like a dance, right?

You've got your fast and you're slow, you've got your hot and you're cold, you've got your firm and you're soft, right?

And it's in the juxtaposition

of each of those things

that you, like,

create, you know, something novel.

And so, like, good s,

you take away, if you take away that destination concept and you just let it be a journey, then it can, you know, you're allowed to play then.

Because if you have a single goal, then you're just running at the goal, right?

You're just pound a pound, pound, pound, pound.

But when you take that off, and s is how adults play.

Sex is, that is how adults play.

And everything in life is easier when you're having fun doing it.

Everything.

One of my life's great mentors watching go through the process of dying.

He had so much fun going through dying of cancer.

I swear to God, he made it look so graceful.

And it's because he had fun.

He was like, oh my God, I'm meeting so many cool people.

This really sucks.

Everything hurts.

I can't hold down food.

But I am meeting so many cool people.

I'm having fun.

So everything in life is easier when you're having fun.

This is how adults play.

So if you have a destination, you're no longer playing.

Playing doesn't have a destination.

Playing is

for the sake of it.

It's endless.

yeah.

So, like, good s is multifaceted.

It can have joy, it can have laughter, it could have sadness, it could have tears, you know, and and they could all be part of, like, a really good s experience.

Speaking of s experience, some men are afraid of s toys.

Yeah.

Do you think they should be afraid of them?

No.

I mean, if you were if if you want to, like, live like you're, like, you know, rolling, if you're building the pyramids and you want to live that way, great, but I'm going to use power tools.

Okay?

So you can cut down that tree with an axe or whatever it is, but I'm going to use a chainsaw if I got it.

So, you know,

so there's no reason to be threatened by anything.

Use things as they should be your friend.

They should be, you know,

a tool to create different different kinds of stimulation,

to create different kinds of feeling, to, like, be able to activate different parts of the body in new and unique and novel ways.

Have you ever had a client just fall in love with you because you were just so good to them?

Yeah.

So, so, so,

transference is a real thing.

Like, there can be emotions that attach, but they naturally dissipate, you know, as you, you like

become distant.

Yeah, and we limit our number of sessions.

We we're thoughtful about that thing because what we don't want to do is create harm,

you know, by

like

by like

emotionally getting them robbed.

Getting people to emotional damage.

But there will be.

Well, they're not damaged.

They're just working through something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And there are plenty of people who have incredibly healthy relationships with their sexuality on,

like,

you know, who then, like, have something happen.

Or they, like,

I mean,

one of the most common things you'll see is, like, somebody who, like, leaves their

marriage somewhere in their, like, late 40s.

Their kids are, like, finally, like, old enough to, like...

sort of understand and they feel like they've raised their kids enough with that partner right and they're like wait, I've been monogamous for

20 years

and

we haven't been having quality intimacy in that long for one or another reason.

And they're out there now saying, okay, now, like, what do I do?

They're not broken.

They're just

exploring who they are.

And who they are changes, right?

Like, your sexuality changes at every point in time, just like you do.

So they're not broken.

I don't I never want to say that

but people are working through different things

you know and but like you don't want to create harm so like we limit our sessions at a certain point and every every client has I think a different

a different based on case by case basis like amount that you would assign to that you know because like for example

somebody who's like

had a pretty healthy sexuality and now has something they're working through after years of having a very very active and healthy sex life they're probably going to be a lot more equipped to like be able to work through things for longer term than maybe somebody who's in their late 30s and losing their virginity and is having to learn and socialize some of these like basic skills

These like real basic skills.

So do you feel like it's important to lose your virginity or at an early age?

If it was up to you, like, would that be?

I mean, I think you need to define early for I would say 16, 17, 18.

Teenagers.

I think it's important for you to explore what is of interest to you when it's of interest to you.

Because if you don't,

then what oftentimes will happen is

you'll end up experiencing a compounding amount of anxiety around it.

Right?

Like, that can happen.

You can,

you can,

you know, hey, you know, I like, like, I'm the only one of my friends who's still a virgin and I want to have s, but like, I'm scared to now because of one or another reason.

Or like, oh, now I'm like, now I'm 25.

Now I'm 30.

Like, every time I tell somebody this, they run away, you know, or they're, they're afraid of, like,

the emotional repercussions.

so I think that when you want to explore something

and

that's the right age

I mean within you know obviously there's certain

reason to that but like I think that that's the thing you should you shouldn't feel shame to be who you are that makes sense you shouldn't be shamed to explore and grow in the directions that at any point in time you want to explore and grow you should just do it.

We got to wrap this up, but where can people learn more about this and more about you?

So

they can go on my Instagram, which is called Safely Feeling Sexy.

Again, Safely Feeling Sexy.

I also have a website that's under Safely Feeling Sexy,

as well as my email is safely feeling sexy at Gmail.

One of my colleagues, Rachel,

I've sent you the links, but

her

email is the ascended Muse at Gmail.

Again, the Ascended Muse.

I'll put it in the description.

And my mentor, Dr.

Kay, Dr.

Susan Kay, her email is Dr.

SusanK at Gmail.

You can Google her.

She's an original Masters in Johnson researcher.

So, I mean,

she's OG.

Like, she knows.

She can look at you and be like,

you could do this.

Or you can't do this.

You hear her do an intake with people and it's like wow.

How did you figure that out?

She'll ask you a question.

She'll ask the person a question.

You'll be like,

How did you know to

and it'll be like something really specific, you know?

She might be a seer.

I mean,

she's been she has been she's been giving she's given her life to this.

And like the amount of shame that people carry around, like it's

can you tell off back if somebody has shame or anything

can i tell can you tell like just by i could oftentimes look at somebody and be like i mean first off if you have a

country or anywhere in the world you've probably been walking around with a fair amount of shame but like you can certainly tell when people are more or less comfortable with who they are men and women Yeah, I mean,

same way, like, there's a reason why, like, you'll see people in a dance floor and you'll be like, that person's fun.

I can't hang out with that.

Right?

Why?

Because you can tell they're having fun.

They're able, they're in their own.

Yeah.

Shaythan, it's been a pleasure weighing in and closing comments.

Make sure you guys follow me on Instagram at the Creator.

Thanks for watching.

Thanks for tuning in, guys.

Digital Social Hour.

See you next time.

Peace.