Inside the Mind of Undefeated Attorney Ugo Lord, The Modern Age Attorney | Digital Social Hour #58

Man, you're a beast.

I saw on your website you've never lost a single case.

It's true.

How did you stay undefeated for so long?

Oh my god, 10 years in the game, haven't lost a single case.

And the secret is to settle.

That's really

and the law enforcement official is trying to tell the black guy to step forward.

So he's telling both of them, step forward, step forward.

And then he tells the Caucasian male, he said, Will the Caucasian male please step back?

And then the black guy steps back too.

And the black guy's like, I identify as a Caucasian male.

I love that.

I love that.

I got to ask this because I saw one of your videos.

Here we go.

Charlie and I love restaurants.

Okay.

We do food reviews.

Yes.

Why do you see that?

One of your videos said you could be criminally charged for leaving a negative review.

Yeah, isn't that something?

Wait, what?

Welcome to the Digital Social Hour.

I'm your host, Sean Kelly.

I'm here with my co-host, Charlie Cavalier, and our guest today, Ugo Lord.

Hey, how's it going?

Doing well, man.

How are you doing?

I am doing good.

I love being here in Vegas.

I grew up here in Vegas.

Yeah, I love being there.

Dude, I love your energy.

I appreciate you.

First of all, I don't know if you guys can see it at home, but this setup that you guys have here is pretty incredible.

Not bad, right?

But behind the scenes, it looks good.

Yeah.

You guys do well.

Can't complain, but I'd love to dive into your story if you could let people know the Spark Notes version.

I appreciate you.

So, you know, my name is Ugo Lord.

I am the modern age attorney, and I believe that we should have a modern attorney for the modern world.

And that's what I feel like I am.

The idea is to bring legal concepts directly to my audience.

So that way, not only can we learn about the law, but we can debate the law.

And then the idea is that if we can debate the law, then possibly even we can change the law, depending on where you fall in the spectrum.

I mean, you got 2 billion views in nine months, so there could be some changes to laws with your viewership.

You know, it's been an amazing journey.

It's incredible how now the whole idea of content all derives from being accessible directly on someone's phone.

And I've never been, I'm a really private person.

I live a private life.

I've never had this, you know, concept that I wanted to be so accessible.

But now everything is accessible.

So therefore, the law needs to be accessible as well.

Right.

What is the most danger you found yourself in talking about the law in such an open, accessible way?

The law is never black and white.

It is always gray.

Every scenario is going to change.

And how you interpret the law is going to be based on that changing scenario.

So the biggest issue that I find myself in is trying to put the law

in these little pegs.

You know, you try to put a square peg in a round, whatever it's called.

You know, it's hard to do that with the law.

And so the biggest challenge is how do I make sure that this takeaway from this video is something that is educational, entertaining, but at the same time doesn't kind of sweep everything under one blanket.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

What did you go to school for?

Which type of attorney are you?

You know, it's interesting because I actually went to school to do entertainment law because I love entertainment.

You know, and I interned for Disney Studios and I loved working with Disney ABC Studios.

That is an amazing company.

I have to say, that is an amazing company with amazing people that work there.

And I really loved it.

And I really enjoyed it.

But it just so happened that in 2015, I did this case.

It was a big case.

And I then was recruited at a business law firm as a partner.

So I was 25 at the time.

And I said, what, listen, if I can be a partner at the age of 25, then I will do it.

So I left entertainment law, which I loved, to do business law.

And then I grew a passion for business law as well.

And now what I do with, you know, making content, it kind of marries the whole idea of entertainment and the law.

So overall, I'm very happy.

And with the creator economy we have now, entertainment law and business law are basically merging in the middle.

You know, it's interesting because now that I'm a quote-unquote creator, you know, I go to all these creator events, it's like all of my clients are all in the room because these are just, I'm just surrounded by creators that are learning how to, learning that they are their own business.

They are their own brand.

It's not just about making, I mean, you guys know this.

It's not just about making content anymore.

It's now about how do we make this content profitable in a way that is true to your message and true to your audience.

And that's the definition of business law.

So, yeah, that's what I do.

Man, you're a beast.

I saw on your website, you've never lost a single case.

That's true.

How did you stand defeated for so long?

Oh, my God.

10 years in the game, haven't lost a single case.

And the secret is to settle.

That's really

it's true.

I've never lost a case and I'm and I'm proud of that.

I've won over you know $550 million

for my clients and I'm proud of that.

But of course it wasn't just me alone.

I'm part of an incredible team and I've worked with several law firms across the country.

The idea is to be able to properly educate your client because it's not that I only take cases, I mean, I'm accused of that online a lot, that I only take cases that I know I'm going to win, but that is not true.

I will take cases that I believe are the right thing to do.

You see what I'm saying?

And then it's about educating my clients.

Hey, listen, you have a losing case.

If you want to spend $200,000 on me to take this all the way and lose, then so be it.

But the smart thing to do is how do we figure out to find a resolution for everybody?

And so I consider myself the ultimate problem solver.

And that's really my goal.

Let's just solve some problems.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I've heard that whenever lawyers settle, the lawyers know deep down who really won.

Yes.

Do you, now, now, even though you have a record better than Floyd Mayweather, do you feel like you've ever settled, but you've felt like you lost?

I believe that any good settlement, everyone feels like they lost.

You see what I'm saying?

Like, if you're walking away from a settlement too happy, which I've done, I've done many times.

I've walked away from a settlement very, very happy.

It means that I've won.

But there are times where I feel like, oh, I could have, maybe I could have got $100,000 more.

Or maybe I could have saved my client $100,000.

Or maybe I feel like, I had one client who was, who I'm talking, had a slam dunk case.

Their case was worth $1 million easy.

Wow.

Easy.

They went to a mechanic, they

had their brakes changed, and then they were taking a road trip.

And on the road trip, their brakes gave out.

Whoa.

The road trip.

Come to find out, the mechanic never put, never they put the calipers on the brakes but they never bolted it in whoa so it was there for about a good 50 miles or so but then it just fell off brakes gave out my client was so just oh i don't really want anything i just want you know pay for my car pay for my therapy pay for my you know psychological therapy and i was like we can get you so much more yeah and he was like no no no so that was a case that we settled but i felt like i lost how fast was he going when he crashed it was interesting because he was only going about like 60 miles per hour.

This is on a freeway.

So I think the speed limit was maybe 70 or 65, only going 60 miles per hour.

But what happened was he was approaching traffic.

So everything started to stop.

And I realized I could not stop.

Luckily, I mean, thank God here in America, we have, you know, we have, we've built in a system to have an emergency shoulder lane for this exact same reason.

He pulled into the emergency lane, was able to activate the brakes.

But just think about it.

Just think about it psychologically, how that feels to be able to hit the brakes and not stop.

I myself.

Dude, that would freak out.

And the idea of the law, the thing about the laws, yes, it's about compensation.

It's about all of that.

But it's also about trying to teach someone what you should not do.

Be more careful.

Right.

You see what I'm saying?

Because he could have died.

He could have died.

Or killed somebody else.

Or killed someone else.

So that...

Shop should learn before I allow any car to leave my shop, I'm going to check, I'm going to double check, and I'm going to triple check to make sure that car is safe.

And when in doubt, drive a Tesla.

That is true.

Which I do, by the way.

That's not an endorsement.

We're just saying.

I got a Tesla, too.

But I don't drive.

And you don't drive.

Not for 10 months I've not driven.

You're kidding.

How do you get around?

Uber and airplanes.

Uber.

The world is a safer place if I'm not on the road.

I love that, though.

That's amazing.

I need to travel with you.

Let's do it.

I've just decided.

Uber Uber airplanes, that's all I need in my life.

So before law, you were a public speaker and you did debates.

You won a lot of competitions.

You won states.

I did.

What was that like?

Oh, it was crazy.

So yes, I was in, you know, I was in forensics debate and I really enjoyed it.

Yes, I won state here in Nevada.

I was also in this

organization called Future Business Leaders of America where I won first place nationally.

And I love it because I'm a big believer that life is about preparation.

And I'm not saying that people have to go out there and be debaters and they have to learn how to speak publicly, but learn to do what you're afraid of.

And they say that public speaking is the biggest fear, even more fearful than death.

I've heard that.

Wow.

Isn't that insane?

That's insane.

So the idea is that if you know that this is something that you don't feel comfortable with, try it.

Learn about it.

And so when I was in high school, I was not a shy person, but I wasn't good in groups.

I wasn't good with groups of people because I was always the weird kid.

I was that strange person that was, you know, bullied and made fun of in high school.

And the last thing that I wanted to do was put myself in front of another group of people that could bully me or could pick on me.

I didn't want that.

But I knew that if I could do something that would make me uncomfortable, and if I can learn to do it well, then there's no situation that I will ever find myself in where I will ever be uncomfortable again.

I've been in front of some of the most influential people in the world, including the president of Taiwan herself.

And I wasn't nervous and I didn't feel that

paralyzing fear that I used to feel back when I was, you know, a young kid in front of like a jock or in front of

someone that I didn't necessarily relate with.

And I felt like, oh, I could be picked on for that.

So put yourself in uncomfortable situations.

Learn to be uncomfortable.

And that's the only way to overcome any type of fear that you have.

Wow, I love that.

I feel like we both love awkward situations, right?

Like, I mean, you prep for everything, you become very knowledgeable about things you're getting into, and that makes you able to talk about anything whenever you go into having a conversation.

I mean, I was very scared of public speaking growing up.

I was at the point where I had to take a Xanax to even do it.

You're kidding.

How did you get the Xanax?

I was prescribed it.

Oh, that makes sense.

But it was that bad.

And I could feel like,

I could feel what you mean 100%.

And so, how do you feel now?

this.

Now I could do it with ease.

Yeah.

I love that.

I mean, that's a perfect testament on what it takes to push through the pain, push through the pain in order to allow yourself to become comfortable with the uncomfortable.

And look at you guys now.

I mean, this is amazing.

This podcast is incredible.

Millions of listeners that you guys have.

You guys, it's a huge accomplishment.

You have to pat yourself on the back.

Yeah.

And you've, I mean, you've done a lot more public speaking in the last couple of years and a lot more talking on social media.

What have, what troubles have you found yourself in, Ugo, from talking about, like, what's the most hate you've received from something you've posted on social media?

It's interesting because I talk a lot, obviously, about the law.

Right.

But, you know, law and politics, they are

hand and glove.

Yeah.

It's hard to find one without the other.

And when I talk about certain legal topics, for example, when I talked about former President Trump being indicted, what does that mean?

What does it mean to be indicted?

What does it mean to be arraigned?

Are you really arrested?

Are you charged?

Obviously, it became a huge political topic.

And I think

when I feel like I'm doing the right thing is when every Democrat and every Republican hates me.

Then I'm like, okay, that means I'm doing something right.

Because the idea is, let's just talk about what the facts of the case is.

Let's talk about what the law is.

And so I found myself, to be honest with you, I initially, when I became this quote-unquote, you know, legal influencer, I said, okay, I'm going to steer away from politics as far as i can but it becomes impossible to talk about the law without acknowledging that politics influences the law so instead of getting mad at me regarding what the law is then you know go out there talk to your congress men or women run for office do whatever you want to try and go towards the policy aspects which you have a huge policy background yourself you know talk about the policy aspect if you want to influence the policy you see what i'm saying?

And then I will just talk about what the results of that policy was, which is the law.

Yeah.

What's your advice to attorneys just coming out of college looking to make a name for themselves?

Oh, gosh.

Just pursue what you look.

The law is so big.

There's such a huge area of law.

And if you try to pursue the money first, you are going to be exhausted.

I mean, it's great.

I get it.

I mean, I had a full-ride scholarship, but I get that my colleagues when we graduated from law school graduated with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

I get it.

And one of my friends, her name is Erica.

She's an amazing, incredible attorney.

She's now a huge influencer as well.

She talks about what it's like graduating with a quarter million dollars in debt and then going to a big firm, paying it off.

And then she left the big firm because at the end of the day, it is not worth it.

So my advice to all the young graduates that are graduating right now, I'm so happy for them and I'm so proud of them.

My advice is: focus on the area of law that you love

because that's the only way that you're not going to get burnt out.

If you say to yourself, oh, I want to do mergers and acquisitions, oh, they make $300,000 a year.

Let's do that.

Fantastic.

Then you'll do it and you'll realize that's the most boring area of law that you will ever enter, ever.

But there are people who love that.

There are people who love to read.

There are people who love to resolve problems.

There are people who love to look at paper trails.

Do mergers and acquisitions.

You'll make tons of money and you'll be happy.

But if it is money that you're after and the rest is not something that you're interested in, you're going to burn out quickly.

I promise you that.

And I think that's the same in anything you do in life.

If you're not passionate about it, you're going to burn out.

Agreed.

The money is secondary.

You just have to hope that what you love doing is profitable in some way.

Yeah.

And there's always a way to turn, you know, to turn what you love to do.

It doesn't matter what you're like, if you love the environment, if you love, if you're religious and you have a spiritual message, whatever you love, there are financial ways through sponsorships and through other programs to make sure that you can sustain yourself and still do what you love.

Just find a partner that knows that area.

For example, if you know that you love the environment and you want to focus your life and your energy on the environment, find a business partner that has a passion for trying to find renewable ways to start new businesses and let them handle the business side.

And then you handle the side that you like partner together and that's a great way to to become financially sustainable doing what you love

i mean everything that exists in the world exists because it made somebody money right from the couch to the clothes to the microphones to the cameras to the tvs the only reason anything tangible exists in the world is because somebody made a dollar off of it precisely is there a dream case or maybe like a precedent you want to overturn something that you just wake up every day and you say forget that law i want to overturn this precedent.

I think the world should exist like this.

That's a really good question.

Yeah, I love that.

That's a really good question.

I love it.

You guys ask a really good question.

I love it.

Yes.

Yes, there is.

I'm a true believer in equality.

And there are several areas in

our laws that haven't allowed...

everyone to have all the rights and all the freedoms that others enjoy.

So I am a big believer in ensuring that everyone has equal access, everyone has equal opportunity, and everyone has the ability to live the American dream.

Now, the downside is that that now becomes more of a political issue, and I'm not even remotely interested in any way, shape, or form in politics.

So what I do instead is let me support those who support others.

You see what I'm saying?

I will happily, I do a lot of pro bono work.

I shouldn't say a lot.

I do pro bono work.

I could always do more.

And I'm a big believer in, if you are new and you're upcoming and you truly believe in, you know, equality for everyone,

I am happy to support you on the legal side.

I'm happy to, you know, there's a lot of...

very annoying law that goes into both local and federal elections and I'm happy to be that that support and and to support you you that way.

I am not going to be running for anything because that sounds terrible.

Sounds risky.

Yeah.

I just, to be honest, it's just, there's so much political correctness in this world.

And my life is not politically correct whatsoever.

So let me not go down that path.

I will not, I mean, obviously, I do a lot of background checks, but I will not have to willingly put my family through this concept of, oh, we're going to be this cookie cutter, you know, people.

No, I

drink, chat.

I drink.

It's probably the smart way to go.

I mean, with social media these days, you could get canceled for supporting the wrong person.

The risk-reward is just not there anymore.

It's like, you know, your life can be over.

And we were talking about like the deep fake risk.

Your life can be over in five minutes.

Yeah.

So how do you guys do that?

Because you guys are constantly covering various topics with various guests at all times where literally you can say the wrong thing and that's it.

So is it something that's in your mind?

Is it something that's in your head?

Or how do you balance that?

Yeah, there's certain topics we won't talk about for sure.

And then we try to play both sides.

So we won't lean towards one way.

We'll have guests on from each side.

Smart.

Yeah.

I just hope the guest says the wrong thing and not one of us.

Yeah, we'll ask what we ask and it's on them at that point.

Yeah, exactly.

Easy insurance goes a long way.

I love that.

I love that.

But I got to ask this because I saw one of your videos.

There we go.

Charlie and I love restaurants.

We do food reviews.

Yes.

I've seen that.

One of your videos said you could be criminally charged for leaving a negative review.

Yeah, isn't that something?

What?

Yeah.

Yeah, isn't it something?

Okay, here's the thing.

This is what I always tell people.

Be responsible for yourself, right?

Do what you have to do for you.

What you should never ever do is tell someone else what to do.

Because the moment that you tell someone else what to do, you're putting yourself at risk.

You can go to a restaurant and you can say, listen, the steak,

three and a half out of five.

I'm okay.

A little tender.

You know,

could have been better.

A little chewy, if you will.

That's fine.

But the moment that you say, oh, guys, you got this steak, listen, it tasted like poison.

This is, if only the chef knew what poison really tasted like, and then they would learn how to make some better steak.

And then someone listening to you goes and poisons the chef.

The idea is, were you directing someone to do something that they legally cannot do?

You see what I'm saying?

And let's not go down this rabbit hole, but that's like what the whole January Trump stuff was.

Were people being

pushed to go do something they shouldn't be doing?

Exactly, exactly.

And the law is very clear on this matter.

The law is absolutely clear.

You do not have to say, go poison the steak to be held liable if someone poisons steak.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

So I just tell people, hey, listen, talk about yourself.

Talk about your own experiences.

Talk about what you like.

Talk about what you don't.

But don't try and direct what other people should or should not do.

Let them draw the conclusions themselves and stay out of it.

So you can't say this is a bad restaurant, don't come here.

You can say,

in my experience, I had a bad experience at this restaurant.

Okay.

And I will not return.

Right.

We're going to have to get some pre-written things for it.

Do you want to be a judge one day?

You know, it's so interesting because I get that question a lot.

And I just hit 10 years in the law, which in the state of California where I'm licensed now qualifies me to, to, you know, enter into a job ship program that they offer in LA.

And I am strongly, strongly considering it because I do love the law.

And it's something that I think

I would be good at.

You know what I mean?

And it's something that I do in terms of the videos.

I'm kind of making

a decision on the videos.

I mean, my videos, I really cover like 1L law, meaning I cover like first-year law student stuff.

I don't cover complex situations, but it is something that I've thought about.

It is something something that I've considered now that I'm in my 10 years.

But interestingly enough,

and I can't really talk about it too much publicly, but there are

some entertainment opportunities that are presenting itself that leans on more of a trier of fact type of show.

I signed an NDA, so I can't get into it too much.

But, you know, stay tuned.

You guys might see me.

Maybe you'll see me in robes.

Who knows?

Man, I'm excited.

So, when you're a judge, are you allowed to take on other clients outside of that?

That is such a great, that is such a great question because there are essentially two types of quote-unquote judges.

There's an arbitrator, which is acting like a de facto judge, a judge in fact, that essentially is deciding a case outside of a traditional courtroom.

And then there is a traditional judge, right?

A traditional judge, it would be a conflict of interest to be a part of a firm, be on the bench, taking clients while you're on the bench.

That's a complete conflict of interest.

Why?

Because every attorney that goes up against you will know, hey, listen, I could go,

I'm before this judge, but I could be against the judge, right?

So it creates a significant problem for the attorneys that are in the court.

But if you're an arbitrator, which

again, which would be a judge, but in an arbitrary role, as an arbitrator role, excuse me, then you can engage in private practice and wear the robes and resolve disputes.

Nice.

So that's the one you would lean towards.

Exactly.

100%.

Absolutely.

And it's also less, you know, politics because if you're working, again, again, I steer clear from politics, but if you're working as a judge, you're working for the states or the federal government, depending on what level of judgeship you are, whether you're a justice, et cetera.

And there's a lot of, when you're working with the government, there's a lot of things you cannot do publicly.

You see what I'm saying?

There are limits on donations that you you can make to political campaigns.

Again, not that I'm saying I'm into political campaigns, but I just don't like to be restricted in things that I can and cannot do, especially because I'm a big believer in entrepreneurship.

I'm a big believer in business.

I mean, I'm grateful to be a partner in my firm and I'm grateful to do what I do.

But ladies and gentlemen, at the end of the day, like real financial independence, like true financial wealth oftentimes is derived from private enterprise.

And if you are working for the government, you're limited in that aspect.

Clarence Thomas is going through that right now.

A Supreme Court justice is getting a lot of flack for accepting expensive vacations from a billionaire friend.

Whether or not he had to disclose that he was going on those vacations is up for public debate right now.

And that's the interesting thing about the Clarence Thomas debate:

there are laws that restrict what a justice can and cannot receive, what they have to disclose, what they don't have to disclose.

And again, it all derives because you are a servant of the people.

And And I love giving back and I love being able to serve my community, but I think I can serve my community better, not by being a public employee, but perhaps by giving back to the community in other ways.

Yeah, that makes sense because you're capped on a salary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And my God, can you imagine?

Like, just imagine you start a business and let's say your business is quote unquote controversial, you know, and then the government comes in and decides, hey, listen, you can't do this because of XYZ.

The XYZ is the policy issue of it, but the can't do this is the law aspect of it.

And I don't necessarily, I'm not terribly fond of the idea of, you know, having my future restricted in such a way, unless I absolutely have to, unless it's really about, unless there's no other way to serve my community, then I'll do it.

But if there's other ways to serve my community, I'll serve my community in other ways.

See what I'm saying?

So you have so many viral videos.

Some of them have tens of millions of views.

Walk me through the process of creating a viral video.

You know what's interesting.

When I started, when I joined this whole creator thing, it was, you know, we're in the pandemic, we're doing our thing, and there's this, and I become a legal correspondent.

So legal correspondent, meaning that I do interviews on different, you know, news channels or television programs about the law.

And so I said, oh, I'm just going to start creating this short form content.

And then I decided to,

there was a video that was going viral at that time about this.

There was these two young people.

One was a young white guy, the other one was a young black guy.

And they were in front of a law enforcement official.

And the law enforcement official was trying to tell the black guy to step forward.

So he's telling both of them, step forward, step forward.

And then he tells the Caucasian male, he said, will the Caucasian male please step back?

And then the black guy steps back too.

And the black guy's like, I identify as a Caucasian male.

And I said to myself, how interesting.

Because we talk about, especially in today's day and age, how you identify.

And there's a huge difference between how you identify and what you are legally considered under the law.

So I decided to do a video on that, and then it just went, it just took off.

It just went viral.

And so

I guess my advice for anyone who's looking to create content is find something that is true to you.

And if you try and copy someone else,

it will never, I mean, it could work, but it's not going to, you're never going to be someone else's original.

be your own original be who you are carve your own path and when i when i carved my own path it worked so my advice is find your niche and do you and do you in a way that's different from everyone else and if and just keep consistency you know what i mean just keep going keep posting keep how many days a times a day do you post it's interesting because remember i have a full-time job

so for that reason i know when i was starting out there like you should post three times a day And for everyone out there that gets that advice, I'm sure that might work for you.

Go ahead, that's fine.

But I only posted once a day.

Wow.

But I posted once a day.

Whether I was tired, whether I wasn't tired, whether I was busy, where I wasn't busy, I was consistent.

Every day, 1 p.m.

Pacific Standard Time, I would post something.

And it could flop or it could do well.

But I would always post something.

And remember, when I first started for that first, you know, three weeks, everything flopped.

Like, I posted every day.

And if I got 300 views, I was so excited.

I was like, yes, you guys, I'm going viral.

We hit 800 guys.

Four digits.

Exactly.

Exactly.

But then again, the one thing that I will say is, you know, carve your own lane, do your own thing, have your own journey.

But when you find something that works, keep doing that over and over and over again.

You know, and then just adapt it and tweak it and change it.

You know, life is a split test.

Find what works and keep doing it.

And just because you find something that works and you're doing it doesn't mean that you can't try new things.

Keep trying new things, but also keep what works.

I love that.

Life is a split test.

I'm hanging out online.

That's a quote right there.

You guys are putting it in there.

It's been a pleasure, man.

Any closing comments for the people?

You know, I look at you guys.

I look at what you do and I look at what you offer to your audience.

And I think that everything in life is a learning experience.

Whether you're learning from your own experience or where you're learning from the experience of others, when you guys look at your tenacity and everything that you've accomplished and everything that you've done, it is a testament to allow people behind you to try and learn from that.

So my hope is for everyone listening and everyone watching out there, learn, pick something up, write something down and read it, internalize it, and then live it.

It is not enough to just keep learning and learning and learning if you're not going to take action.

Take action, Live your life.

Live your dreams and be happy doing it.

Man, I love that.

His energy is so contagious.

I love it.

I feel like we could run through a brick wall right now for sure.

Oh, it's been a blast, man.

I hope you all social hour.

Thanks for tuning in, guys.

That was a great episode.

See you next time.