Making Probiotic Choices : Debunking Diet Myths with Robert Yang | Digital Social Hour #39

A cereal is probably the worst food you can start to play with.

A skinny person take their poop and give it in the capsule basically into a fat person and they actually lose weight.

What?

All right, welcome to the Digital Social Hour.

I'm your host, Sean Kelly.

I'm here with my co-host, Wayne Lewis.

What up, what up, and our guest today, Robert Yang.

Robert, thanks, guys.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

Well, we're just gonna dive right into it.

We are.

All right, let's charm healthier than steak according to the food pyramid.

According to the food pyramid to the food pyramid, well, see, I am of the belief that steak should be part of your diet.

Okay, okay.

Um, for a lot of people,

obviously, quality does matter.

Um, so uh, I know

quite a few people believe, oh, it has to be plant-based or vegetarian on that side.

It's interesting we were talking about it because I was just looking into that.

And so oftentimes within the literature, they always refer to De Filipo et al.

So basically it's a researcher and they talk about how plant-based diets are better for gut health via low-fat and then vegetarian.

sort of diet and then they compare it to for example the standard american diet right Or another term is Western American diet.

We actually made that up that Lucky Charms is actually healthier.

Their food payment, the government.

Well, I mean, that's the, that's the, yeah, that we can get into that.

Like, hey, let's put this out.

I mean, cereal probably, I did a post on cereal, too, but just to finish that part, they compare sort of apples to oranges in a way.

So they talk about low-fat, vegetarian, but then they point to the standard American diet, which there's so many confounding factors.

You know, you have sugar, obviously, you have processed foods.

Right.

You know, the meat that they include within the meat category is typically it's bacon, it's meats full of preservatives, nitrates, that sort of thing versus, okay, is it grass-fed?

Is it organic eggs, free range?

And then obviously the fat sources are not very good.

Typically, it's categorized fat, but it's fried fat, trans fats.

So there's a lot of confounding factors where you can't really compare apples to apples

without regards to whether, okay, this is just the diet for gut health.

And that's where I think meat can be part of a good diet for your overall gut health.

So it's not healthier.

No, it is.

No,

it is healthier.

Lucky charms.

Well, not lucky charms.

I mean,

you know, if you look at, I mean, whenever I think about cereal, I did a post and I said it's probably the worst food you can start to deal with.

You called it junk.

Because I call it junk.

Yeah, yeah.

Because

you're eating something that has been so processed

with heat temperature, but also high pressure.

So it's technically, they call it an extrusion process.

So that completely changes the molecular structure of the protein of the wheat or the corn or the rice, whatever the grain was.

And so it's nothing that we've seen or exposed our body to in nature in terms of that protein.

So not only are you really causing the roller coaster effect of your blood sugar.

So our parents have been trying to kill us this whole time.

Well, without knowing.

knowing.

Without knowingly.

They're lovingly trying to kill you.

Loving lovingly.

The marketing on the cereals is brilliant.

Right.

But the red boxes, Lucky Charm, all that they're doing.

Yeah, but creating a character, cartoon character.

I mean, we all felt for that.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, it's good marketing.

McDonald's, too.

So how can people find out if they have gut health issues and what are some ways to improve your gut health?

So I would say standard blood work is one way to do that.

So oftentimes a lot of people go for a monthly checkup and they might get a complete blood count.

So basically that's looking at white blood cells, red blood cells.

So, oftentimes, with white blood cells, you can think of them sort of the Pac-Man of your body.

So, they're there to eat up viruses, bacteria, parasites, whatever that is.

And so, there's a functional range, and it should be between five and 7.5.

So, if you have a range where it's 8.5, then that usually means that there's some kind of active overgrowth or infection involved.

Or even below a five,

then it could be four or 3.5, which may indicate, okay, you've got some kind of chronic sort of issue that's going on for a long time.

So if it's above or below the range, you know, okay, maybe there's something going on.

And so oftentimes in that case, then you would go into maybe stool testing.

Or if you just outright have

waterfall poop and, you know, constipate all the time, you may need to go straight into doing a stool.

I just did a blood test and I had a low white blood cell count.

Every time I do a blood test, I have that.

My mom said it's genetic, but is there a way to fix that?

Well,

in terms of maybe fixing it sometimes they say yes you might be genetically inclined to have a white a low white blood cell count isn't that bad

it's bad yeah it's just means that there something is causing it to be depressed but so whether we know it or not our body is always trying to fix things you know create a homeostatic balance within the system even within the immune system the digestive system hormonal system so there could be something that could be driving that white blood cell count down so that's where i say look, we need to do some extensive blood work.

I call a functional blood panel.

Let's look at maybe some hidden icebergs that could be causing that to be driven down.

Right.

And then going back to the question earlier about improving gut health, what are some tips you recommend people?

Yeah, I mean, I would say.

I heard sauerkraut.

Yeah.

I mean,

sauerkraut is one way to do that.

So that goes along with that.

What kind of sauerkraut?

Because I just went and bought some from Sprouts.

And when I heard, well, when I learned about it, I went and got some.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I would say obviously the organic sort of sauerkraut.

If it's sitting on the, you know, in a shelf, not refrigerated, it's probably not the good kind of sauerkraut.

Okay.

So the refrigerated kind.

Yeah, refrigerated kind.

And typically, you know, when we're looking at fermented foods like sauerkraut, it's...

What does sauerkraut actually do?

Well, it's technically it's fermented, right?

So

you're getting bacteria to grow.

And so it is a whole food probiotic.

but it's also what we call a prebiotic because that's fiber in there.

So that feeds your good gut flora.

But also there's a concept called postbiotic.

So that's where when you get probiotics into the system and they're fed fiber or a resistant starch, you name it, then they take that, they turn it into a fuel called short-chain fatty acids.

And that in itself is the fuel source for allowing the gut flora to flourish.

So sauerkraut's one way to do that.

Sauerkraut is really good then.

It can be, but for some people that how much of it do you eat?

Like what's the amount that you should eat daily?

I mean I say start small.

It could be just one spoonful just to see how you react because sometimes for some people they may be sensitive.

On an empty stomach at night?

I would say most likely with food, just generally with your food.

Okay.

Yeah.

But sauerkraut is so nasty.

I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, but it's very acidic too, so that kind of helps with the digestive process.

Try kimchi instead.

But kimchi?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's fermented.

It's like cabbage, right?

It's basically, you know, Napa cabbage, but with spices in it.

So if you don't like spicy food, you don't handle spicy food, then that may not be such a what about kombucha?

Is that good?

Kombucha is another source of a sort of whole food probiotic.

What I was going to say is that some people, for example, with SIBO, I'm sure you've heard of that, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.

Because they have the growth of the bacteria in the wrong place in the digestive tract, sometimes sauerkraut, kombucha, yogurts can actually exacerbate some of their symptoms.

So that's when they go, oh, I tried sauerkraut, supposed to be the holy grail, and then I got bloated and I got gas and I'm farting.

And that

can be a sign that, okay, now that's sort of a clinical sign of, okay, now we need to do some testing to determine, okay, do you indeed have some kind of overgrowth that could be exacerbated by, you know, a potentially very healthily, healthy gut food.

What do you say to people that think the organic stuff is all BS and it's just marketing?

I would say there's kind of a partial truth to that in the sense where you have obviously big conglomerates that want to get in that game because there's such a it's a huge market to make money.

So in that sense, some of the organic the USD organic guidelines have sort of been watered down to a certain degree.

So when you look at organic farming and you look at, okay, what should it be?

It was biodynamic farming where you have rotation of crops, you have cows and chickens and goats and pigs all rotating through.

And that was truly a biodynamic farm.

And they can still call it organic.

Well, that is truly the sort of essence of an organic farm.

That's what it's supposed to be.

What it's supposed to be.

But oftentimes now, they try to water down

the terminology or definition because they can't.

They try those sticker on their meat.

Well, you could charge more.

Yeah, I know.

Well, you can charge more.

I would say, in terms of like that, we talked about meat earlier, when it says organic beef, for example, it doesn't mean it's grass-fed beef.

So if it says organic beef, it just means that the cows were fed organic corn, grain, soy.

Got it.

That sort of thing.

So you're still going to get a meat product that has probably high omega-6, lower omega-3s, higher arachidon acid.

So the meat quality is not going to be as good, even though it's technically organic.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Does lack of sleep affect gut health?

Whew,

that's a big one.

I think so.

I just have been, I'm working on a gut rest program, and so sleep is part of that.

solution because what they've shown over time is that when you get a person that's sleep deprived, it does directly affect the diversity of the gut microbiome,

but also reduces the number of the gut bacteria.

Wow.

So, you know, some sometimes you see when you really dive in and you take a deep dive into the literature, some will say, oh, well, there wasn't really that much of a change.

And another one will say, oh, there was a massive change.

And when you look at animal versus human studies, one of the interesting things that I found was that when they were studying the rats,

it's kind of, I mean, it's cruel in a way, but they basically sleep deprive them by putting them on basically a sort of like rotating

device so that when they start to fall asleep, they fall in the water.

So that's their sort of,

I guess, way to sleep deprive them.

Whereas within the human study, you know, they're sleep depriving, but they're, you know, watching a movie or they're playing video games or reading a book.

So it's a very kind of nice environment.

So obviously with that particular human study, they don't really show that much change in the gut microbiome.

But obviously most people that are in college, university, they're an attorney, they're preparing for some, you know,

a big event, you know, they're highly stressed, they don't sleep that much,

they don't eat very well because

the other problem with sleep deprivation, it changes your, what we call ghrelin and leptin.

So that's sort of your yin and yang of how you

treat satiety.

So that's why all the medical or the pharmaceutical companies are trying to find that holy grail of leptin drugs and so forth to help with obesity.

But what sleep has been shown to do or sleep deprivation, it increases your ghrelin levels.

So you become, you get the munchies basically.

Like being sleep deprived.

And then their problem with that is that it's a snowball effect because the munchies are not organic.

beef and kale and broccoli.

It's starchy, processed sugar, chips, crackers, Snickers, you name it.

Can fasting help with improving gut health?

It's a really good question.

There is some of the literature coming out that the fasting does change some of the gut microbiome.

And how much fasting?

Like how long?

Yeah, I mean, it's a really good question because typically it's sort of the 16-8, right?

So you fast for 16 hours, intermittent fasting.

Or people are stuck on words, time-restricted eating.

The only, I view it as a tool, the whole intermittent fasting.

So you have to use the tool properly in the situation given.

And so sometimes when I'm working with someone with a gut issue, intermittent fasting is not the way to go because

they get moody, they get hangry, they get emotional when they are fasting.

And then also what ends up happening is because they don't eat enough calories during the day, they get the munchies at night, they overeat, they don't eat enough protein.

And so that creates a whole another issue of problems over time.

So I think a person who has very good eating habits to begin with, I think maybe intermittent fasting could be helpful, but you have to be careful.

It's kind of a fine line.

People that are struggling to lose weight, is that usually due to a gut issue?

I would say yes and no.

It depends on who the person is.

So for example,

they've done some rat studies and human studies where they actually take

a skinny person, take their poop and give it in a capsule basically into a fat person and they actually lose weight.

What?

Weight.

Yeah.

Or they've done it in rat studies as well.

Take the feces of a skinny person.

Yeah, say they put it in a capsule, shoot it up.

Well, basically, they put it in micro encapsulations, or sometimes they might actually, yes, shoot up the butt of the person.

And that person that's obese or, you know, overweight starts losing weight.

They end up losing weight.

Wow.

But now, like, we're also context, right?

So we're looking at, okay, someone who's obese versus someone who's relatively not overweight so I say it depends who the person is because obviously someone who's I don't know preparing for a bodybuilding show is that gonna really help them no I mean at that point you're looking at macros and carbs and proteins and you know exercise and supplements and those kinds of things yeah yeah

but that's kind of where some of the research is going towards but I don't think it's ever gonna defeat obviously good sleep patterns, good eating, hydrating, controlling your stress because that's obviously a big factor so stress impacts your gut absolutely

oh yeah for sure slow it down right

stress can slow down your digestion uh well it can

it can either slow it down or speed it up so for example they've shown when you have high stress level you have elevated cortisol but probably nordronal as well and they've shown that that feeds the gram-negative bacteria in your intestinal tract so when you get highly stressed you could potentially

basically push that overgrowth within your intestinal tract.

And then, we're talking about obviously elevation of cortisol.

And so, typically, as the cortisol levels go up, it's not a bad thing.

It's just to help you to get away from the tiger, so to speak.

Right?

But if you chronically have high cortisol levels, what that's been shown to do is drop what we call secretor IgA.

So, it's technically, we say it's your first line of defense of your immune system, sort of like the Coast Guard line, you know, protecting the coast of California or whatever that is.

So if you have high stress all the time, it depresses your Sega and then your first line of defense is no longer there.

Now you're predisposing yourself to fungal, bacterial, parasitic overgrowth over time.

So that's sort of like the indirect path of

how high stress, mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, can affect your gut

health.

That's crazy.

So there's that, it's always at hand where whenever I lecture, I say, look, gut health is like octopus tentacles.

An octopus can touch eight different things at once, and the gut can affect your gut brain axis, gut skin axis, gut liver axis, gut kidney axis.

So it has its hand in everything.

And it's not to say that it's the end-all be-all for everything.

Sometimes even with someone with gut issues, I have to address their blood sugar.

Because their blood sugar is all over the place based on their lab work.

I'm like, look, we're not going to ever get your gut under control unless we start to stabilize your blood sugar.

So sometimes it's like, okay, we're not even doing stool testing or we're not going to do, you know, hormone testing.

We just, let's get your blood sugar.

What drinks are complete no-no to you?

Like, I'm not drinking that because it affects the gut and guts the gut in this head in this way.

I know people are going to hate me, but

it's round.

Alcohol.

It's alcohol, baby.

Alcohol?

Alcohol.

Alcohol.

I thought that was liver.

Well, so it can be liver, right?

So we have like a fatty liver that people talk about.

Fatty liver is bad, actually, right?

So yeah, so that's that's bad.

So you have, obviously people know about if you drink too much alcohol, you get a fatty liver.

You can have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

So sometimes you find that with people that just, I don't know, they drink like two liters of soda every day, right?

Fatty fructose, corn syrup, too high sugar.

But

with alcohol,

one,

you create a pseudo-like leaky gut, which I'm sure you've heard of.

It's called what?

Leaky gut.

Leaky gut.

Leaky gut, yeah.

I haven't heard of it.

Yeah, so quick explanation.

If you think about digestion from north to south, food goes in your mouth, esophagus, goes in your stomach.

Oops, excuse me.

Stomach is a big cement mixer.

So that mixes everything up, acid, and then it goes in your small intestine.

So that small intestine, there's what we call tight junctions.

So it's sort of like the riot police protecting the target store.

And so the target store is a bloodstream.

So that's very, very, very important territory, obviously.

So if the riot police gets irritated or they throw a cocktail bomb, boom, blows up.

So instead of the tight junctions being very close together, they open up and that's what we call leaky gut.

So there's a researcher.

So what happens when the gut is leaky?

So basically what happens, Alessio Fasano, he's a researcher and figured out what causes leaky gut.

And he said, what happens in Vegas should stay in Vegas.

That's kind of how what the small intestine should be like.

Okay.

So what happens happens in the small intestine should stay in the small intestine.

So when you have irritation to the intestinal tract, that causes leaky gut.

That goes straight into the bloodstream.

Immune system, body goes, what the heck?

That shouldn't be in the bloodstream.

So now you have alarms, bells, whistles, red lights, blue lights going on, going, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's it.

And you're

artificially activating the immune system, which shouldn't be activated in those situations.

But what are you...

And leaky gut basically causes them to open up.

So what are you intoxicating?

Sorry, leaky gut, alcohol.

Are you intoxicating your blood with alcohol or is it the feces?

No, you're well, when you drink alcohol, you go to your stomach, goes in your small intestine, and that irritates a small intestine and opens it up.

Gotcha.

And then you eat your organic broccoli or beef or chicken, and then that potentially goes in and makes it worse.

Oh, yeah, we don't drink, so we're good on that.

And then we didn't even talk about the blood sugar effects, hormonal effects, sleep effects, because that that snowballs into that.

What about food-wise?

What foods are bad?

I would say probably

obviously trans fats are pretty inflammatory.

What foods have put up?

So any fried food?

Fried food.

So fried food in general, French fries.

I eat the idea.

Fried chicken.

You got to cut those out.

I don't know.

That's why I went to teriyaki madness, but I said.

That's not much better.

Well, you got the sugar, right?

Right.

But if I order the bowl without teriyaki, am I good?

It's a much better choice.

Okay.

Yeah.

So no teriyaki.

But it's still got seed oils, yeah.

So, this see, that's why Sean's like, it's still got seed oils.

See, he's always gonna say something,

dude.

That's good than that.

He got two seed oils.

He's looking out for you.

Yeah, no, Sean is like that.

That's cool.

Yeah, so what were you saying?

So, you know, foods that

are bad for your gut.

So, obviously, fried food, trans fatty acids are going to be one of them.

Sugar is going to be another one because that's very

if you can, or very uh,

what if it's fruit?

Fruit, sugar.

Fruit sugar.

Sugars and everything.

Because with fruit sugar, obviously you're having the fiber content, but there's also phytonutrients.

So what we're finding is that some of the phytonutrients in fruits and vegetables

and they're continually finding new phytonutrients that are very helpful for the gut microbiome.

So, you know, we're talking about obviously table sugar and things like soda and, you know, soft drinks.

Yeah, yeah.

How often do you eat sugar?

Do you even touch sugar?

No, I do touch sugar.

Like I'll have it on the weekends.

Okay.

Like what?

What's your what's what's your like for me?

I would say it's it's ice cream.

Ice cream.

But I but I stay within a parameter avoiding dairy.

Oh, okay.

So I don't eat gluten-free.

It'll be gluten-free, dairy-free.

It'll be like coconut.

Have you tried the avocado one?

I haven't tried that one.

I've kind of scared you because I'm like, avocado.

Do you like it?

I like it.

Okay.

So I'll have to give that one a try.

So you do indulge, but just a little bit.

Yeah, I indulge.

Yeah, and that's why I tell people, look, it doesn't have to be perfect all the time.

Okay.

You know, 80-20.

Just don't, just not all the time, just not all the time.

Oh, yeah, I got you.

You gotta live your life a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Well, man, it's been a pleasure.

I could talk to you.

Yeah, man, yeah, I kind of want to keep going.

Yeah, I wish we could.

Any closing comments where people can find out more about you?

Yeah, you can find me, Robert Yang, on Instagram, also robertyang.net, the website.

So, if anybody needs help and they're just struggling with gut health issues, hormonal balances, I try to help people the best way I can.

Amazing.

Wayne, you can follow me on Instagram at the Creator, Sean Kelly, Digital Social Hour.

Thanks for tuning in.

See you guys next week.