Tariffs, AI, Immigration & Corruption: Mike Nellis’ Most Honest Interview Yet | DSH #1636

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Speaker 3 If you were a horse and buggy rider, you got killed by the car. Like, that's just what happened.
If you were a typist, you got killed by the personal computer.

Speaker 3 If you were a mathematician, if you were a computer, that's literally what they were called. You got killed by Excel and what they could do.
So that's what's going to happen here.

Speaker 3 So the job market is going to shift, but the government has a responsibility to step in and help people who are being displaced by that.

Speaker 3 Trump likes to talk about how he's going to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. That's what the tariff war was about.
I can't see that. No, there's no way it happens.

Speaker 3 But he was also like, we're going to get, what was it, 75 deals in 75 days and it never happened. Like we have five tariff deals.
But let's say he's able to bring manufacturing jobs back.

Speaker 3 Let's say say he can somehow pull them from China or Vietnam or anywhere else. And we're going to start building iPhones or cars in the United States.

Speaker 3 If we do that, within the next five to 10 years, robots are going to be building those.

Speaker 3 And that's worth doing if like we can bring manufacturing back here, but it isn't going to create jobs and it isn't going to revitalize those towns.

Speaker 3 To me, it's false hope and it's bad economic policy.

Speaker 5 All right, guys, Mike Nellis here. Hope you didn't lose too much money last night, but thanks for coming, man.

Speaker 3 No, no, I finished up by like 50 bucks. That's a huge win.
Okay. Blackjack? Blackjack.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's the way to do it, man. Blackjack, Baccarat.

Speaker 3 Poker, if you're good. Poker.
So I was good at one time. Yeah.
Yeah. I played in the World Series poker three times.
Damn. Made like six or seven final tables at WSO2

Speaker 5 events, yeah. And everyone's too good these days, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, everyone's too good. And then I got married, had a kid, started my career.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I feel like when the solvers came, I have on a lot of poker pros, and the solvers just leveled the playing field, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, there's like that Chris Moneymaker boom, and then everything just kind of feels like it got out of control.

Speaker 5 Yeah, absolutely, man. A lot of game theory.
Well, what's new these days? I'm sure you're super busy with all the stuff going on in politics.

Speaker 3 Yeah, super busy. I mean, there's never a dull moment in American politics today, just a shit ton of news every day, drinking from a fire hydrant, but trying to build up my company.

Speaker 3 So I've got a series of companies I work with. I run one of the largest digital fundraising and advertising firms for democratic and progressive causes.

Speaker 3 And then we do a bunch of other stuff like that. And then being a content creator.
So launching my Substack, Endless Urgency, and trying to be out there. Obviously, I'm not a fan of the president.

Speaker 3 So trying to be out there, letting people know how I feel about what's going on. Yeah.

Speaker 5 How do you think he's doing so far?

Speaker 3 I would give him an F. An F.
Pretty bad. I mean, I judge him this way.
When he campaigned last year for the presidency, he said, when I'm elected, everything's going to get cheaper.

Speaker 3 Day one, this is a quote, on day one, grocery prices will go down. And we're 10 months in, grocery prices are not down.

Speaker 3 It's harder for people to put food on the table, harder for people to buy a house.

Speaker 3 I'm watching the president throw American farmers off a cliff, buying beef from Argentina, letting China steal our soybean business.

Speaker 3 They're getting killed, and we're sending $40 billion overseas to Argentina to bail out their economy.

Speaker 3 So everything about this administration feels like it's either about enriching Donald Trump or enriching somebody that he knows.

Speaker 5 I did see some graph of his net worth. It's gone up a lot this term.

Speaker 3 Something like 70% of his net worth he's made since January.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's pretty nuts. Yep.

Speaker 5 No, I was just going to say, like, he campaigned on how he loses money while he's president.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, he doesn't lose money while he's president. Like, he likes to be like, well, I'm not taking my salary.

Speaker 3 Be like, yeah, you're not taking your salary, but you're taking a $400 million bribe from the Qatari government. Like, have you seen this?

Speaker 5 Was that the plane thing he got gifted?

Speaker 3 So they gifted him a plane. He says he's planning to keep it after he leaves.
$400 million. And he goes, oh, it's not a bribe because there's no quid pro quo.

Speaker 3 But like a couple weeks ago, he signed an executive order giving Qatar Article 5-like protection.

Speaker 3 So right now, if somebody attacks Qatar, they have the same protections as like there's an attack on the United States. Wow.
Yeah. So that's what $400 million buys you.

Speaker 5 Holy crap. I don't think many countries have that.

Speaker 3 No, just NATO countries. That's what we have with them.
And then Taiwan, I think. That's pretty nuts, man.

Speaker 5 He's also bulldozing the White House, you said. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, he's bulldozing the East Wing of the White House.
And look, I like, look, the White House is a historical landmark, and I know like people are really upset about it on that front.

Speaker 3 Like, I care about that, but I care less about it in the context of like whatever. Sometimes there's renovations that need to be done.
Maybe this is right. Maybe it's not.

Speaker 3 But I tend tend to think about it like, what's the way that we spend money in this government right now? This is $350 million. Now it's private funds, but we were able to find the money for that.

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Speaker 3 Right now, the government's been shut down for 28 days. 40 million Americans are going to lose their food stamps, their SNAP benefits on Saturday if they don't reopen the government and fund this.

Speaker 3 We can't find the money for that. We can find the money for this.
We can find the money for planes. We can find the money for whatever.

Speaker 3 They just gave Christy Noam just bought her second private jet so that she could travel across the country and shoot content. So to me, it's the priorities of this administration are super off.

Speaker 3 And you can go, look, I'm a Democratic strategist. You might be watching this and going, this guy's full of shit.
I don't believe anything that he says.

Speaker 3 But like, there's an objective truth here, which is everything happening in Washington right now is about enriching Donald Trump and his allies. It's not helping the vast majority of people.

Speaker 3 And he's running around talking about this golden age of prosperity that we're having. When does the golden age start? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Unless you own a lot of AI tech stock, you're not doing very well right now. There's no growth in the economy.
Job markets are getting killed. People can't afford to buy a house.

Speaker 3 Where's the things that we were promised?

Speaker 5 I was just filming at ComplexCon this weekend and all the vendors were like, dude, this is really bad. They weren't selling anything.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I remember, so I'm a local entrepreneur in Chicago. Like, one of my businesses is obviously Democratic Strategy is what I do.

Speaker 3 But, you know, I know all these small business owners, and they're running

Speaker 3 merchandise businesses and, you know,

Speaker 3 chemical stuff and all these things that I don't really understand. But I know every single one of them says the same thing.
It's harder to find customers. It's harder to sell.

Speaker 3 They're having to lay people off. We just watched, I think, Amazon laid off 3,000 people yesterday.

Speaker 5 30,000, right?

Speaker 3 30,000 people. Jesus.
I mean, it's just not a great situation. And I feel like the president is very disconnected from the day-to-day.
He stands on the lawn of the White House.

Speaker 3 He's like, it's the best job market ever. We have no inflation.
I've defeated inflation. Like we can't have a president that's that disconnected from reality.

Speaker 3 And you'll find people that are supporters of the president. They'll go, Mike Nellis has Trump derangement syndrome.
And I don't.

Speaker 3 Like I think there are things that Donald Trump does that are good every now and again. And like, you know, look, he brought the hostages home from Israel a few weeks ago.

Speaker 3 Like, good, that's a good thing. I'm happy for that.
But he refuses to accept that his economic policies are making everything worse.

Speaker 3 And the flip side of that is you have a lot of Democrats that refuse to acknowledge that what Joe Biden did over the last four years, like, wasn't enough to help the American people.

Speaker 3 Like, we lost because because inflation was poor and we didn't help provide direct relief to the American people. Trump promised to fix that.

Speaker 3 And instead he dumped gasoline on an existing dumpster fires. Now everything's worse.

Speaker 5 I'll say this about the Amazon thing. Not to defend him, but I think just with the rise of AI, a lot of jobs are going to get replaced.
I don't know if that's Trump's fault too.

Speaker 3 I mean, I don't think it's Trump's fault, but I think it's Trump's responsibility.

Speaker 3 And this is one of the things that I think politicians don't understand is there's a lot of things that happen you can't control. Like AI technology, nobody's going to defeat that.

Speaker 3 So if you're an AI skeptic out there and you're like, I don't want to use this shit, I think we should ban this shit, like that isn't going to happen. Nobody has ever been able to stop that.

Speaker 3 Anybody who was like, you know, if you were a horse and buggy rider, you got killed by the car. Like that's just what happened.
If you were a typist, you got killed by the personal computer.

Speaker 3 If you were a mathematician, if you were a computer, that's literally what they were called, you got killed by Excel and what they could do. So that's what's going to happen here.

Speaker 3 So the job market is going to shift, but the government has a responsibility to step in and help people who are being displaced by that.

Speaker 3 If you're 22 and you're about to graduate from college, you are scared to get into the job market.

Speaker 3 I meet kids and hear from them all the time where they're like, I don't know what I'm going to do because there's no entry-level jobs. Entry-level legal jobs are getting killed.

Speaker 3 So if you're a law student, you have nowhere to go to clerk. Entry-level jobs are basically everything.
It's just gone.

Speaker 3 And right now, the only growth that you're seeing in terms of jobs in the economy is either a small amount of healthcare or you're seeing a lot of gig workers.

Speaker 3 So we have more people that are being Uber drivers, DoorDash drivers, which is fine. That's noble work.
I'm not sure. Those will get replaced too, though.
Those are going to get replaced too.

Speaker 3 Just the drones?

Speaker 3 Yeah. In Chicago, they have these little like weird drones that just bring you food.
Yep.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Yeah.
They have the self-driving cars out here in Vegas now. Soon your food will be delivered by self-driving cars.
There's going to be no drivers.

Speaker 5 Uber drivers, they're screwed, honestly, I think.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and we're going to have to have some kind of shift in how we think about work. Because, yeah, I mean, these jobs are gone.
They're going to be gone in the next 10 years.

Speaker 3 Like, Trump likes to talk about how he's going to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. That's what the tariff war was about.
I can't see that. No, there's no way it happens.

Speaker 3 But he was also like, we're going to get, what was it, 75 deals in 75 days, and it never happened. Like, we have five tariff deals.
But let's say he's able to... to bring manufacturing jobs back.

Speaker 3 Let's say he can somehow pull them from China or Vietnam or anywhere else, and we're going to start building iPhones or cars in the United States.

Speaker 3 If we do that, within the next five to 10 years, robots are going to be building those jobs.

Speaker 3 And that's worth doing if we can bring manufacturing back here, but it isn't going to create jobs and it isn't going to revitalize those towns. To me,

Speaker 3 it's false hope and it's bad economic policy.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's a really good point. So you're not a fan of the tariffs?

Speaker 3 No, no, I think tariffs are stupid, and I think they've been poorly planned. Like, if you want to win a tariff war, you have to have allies.
What he did was literally put tariffs on everybody.

Speaker 3 And I think the thing about Trump is, and I just say this as a Trump critic, I'm not a hater. I don't really like the guy.
I think he's a man of low moral character.

Speaker 3 He's good at identifying the problem. Like, he's right that America is is getting taken advantage of in trade.
Like, we are. He's right that there are countries that are over-tariffing us.

Speaker 3 There's a right way to handle that and a wrong way to handle it. I don't think coming out and putting a tariff on every single country makes any bit of sense.

Speaker 3 You need to create an alliance so that you have economic partners that can help you.

Speaker 3 So, coming out and putting a tariff on Canada and Mexico was really stupid if you want to win a tariff war with China. And what you're doing is you're pushing everybody to China.

Speaker 3 You're pushing everybody to other countries. Vietnam is another example.

Speaker 3 Vietnam is a trading partner that the United States has spent decades building up as a source source of economic opportunity for the United States.

Speaker 3 Like having a place like Vietnam where we have a good relationship with them, given everything we've been through with them, it's actually incredible we have the relationship that we do.

Speaker 3 We're building more manufacturing plants there as a counter to China to hedge on their powers. They put massive tariffs on Vietnam.
Like, what the hell are we doing?

Speaker 3 You're just pushing everybody to China. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Do you think the economy was better under Biden?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 But marginally so. Like, I don't think.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't think, look, I don't think the economy under Biden was good. I think it was improving.

Speaker 3 I think you have to take a full step back and go, there was a global inflationary crisis in this, around the world. Let's be clear.
I mean, it was bad here. It was worse everywhere else.

Speaker 3 So I think Biden deserves a modicum of credit for inflation not being as high as it was everywhere else.

Speaker 3 However, I think Democrats got so wrapped up in the numbers, they would go, well, and I hear this all the time from Democrats.

Speaker 3 It'd be like, 49 out of 50 Nobel laureate economists say that our economy is the envy of the world. And most Americans are like, I don't give a shit about that.
I can't put food on the table.

Speaker 5 Egg prices.

Speaker 3 Right. Egg prices are bad.
My Chipotle burrito bowl costs $35 now. Like, they're pissed off.

Speaker 3 And I think the other thing for Democrats is we get stuck in this thing where we're trying to tell you, you should be able to survive. You should be able to put food on the table.

Speaker 3 You should be able to buy a house. You should be able to retire with Daniel.
It's all true. But you should also be able to take a goddamn vacation every now and then.

Speaker 3 You should be able to afford the new Nintendo Switch if you want to be able to buy one.

Speaker 3 You should be able to make sure that your kids have everything that you need to, you know, like I got a six-year-old kid. He's going to play baseball.
I got to buy him a glove. I got to do all that.

Speaker 3 That's harder for people to do. Now,

Speaker 3 Trump promised to fix all of that. I alone can fix it is another Donald Trump quote that I think about all the time.

Speaker 3 But the minute that he took over, he hasn't done jack shit to help improve anybody's life. Everything is worse now than it was 10 months ago.

Speaker 3 It doesn't absolve the Democrats of the mistakes that we made in the past, but we have two options. Like Andrew Yank said this not that long ago.

Speaker 3 He was like, you know, when you give people two shitty choices, they're going to pick one. And that's what happened in the last election.
People were given two shitty choices. I liked Kamala Harris.

Speaker 3 I respect Kamala Harris. I worked for her for a long time.
I think she was put in a bad position by Joe Biden and his administration. But Donald Trump is a worse option.

Speaker 3 It makes sense to me that people ran towards him because they had nowhere else to go. But right now, people are hurting, and I think he's denying that objective objective reality.

Speaker 5 I just bought her book. I didn't read it yet, but what was it like being on the inside of that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, I was on her 2019 campaign. So I was not on the 2024 campaign, but on 19, it's like, I worked for her for five years.
She was a really great boss. She was a really smart human being.

Speaker 3 I think that people didn't get a chance to see the Kamal Harris that I got to see, which was somebody who pushed me to be a better strategist, pushed me to be a better business owner.

Speaker 3 When I started my own firm, she was my first client. Wow.
And she was my client at the last firm. I told her I was going to hang up my own shingle.
She says, I'm going with you. And she pushed me in.

Speaker 3 And one of the things is the company that I was at before I started Authentic, which is the name of my business, kind of fell apart due to like financial mismanagement and then the way that it treated its staff.

Speaker 3 And when I told her I was starting my own company, the first question she had for me is like, how are you going to be different? And like, I hadn't even thought about that.

Speaker 3 I was just like, I was just sort of like, fuck these guys. I could do a better job.
And I hadn't thought about it. And like, I left that meeting and like, I wrote our first company handbook.

Speaker 3 I wrote our core mission statement. I started to really think about the intentionality of how I wanted to build that firm.
And I did that because of her.

Speaker 3 And I wish that people could have gotten a chance to see that. And they did it.
And there's a whole bunch of reasons for that. But I always thought she was a really great person.

Speaker 3 I'm sad that she's not president right now. I understand, though, why Americans voted for her.

Speaker 5 Do you think if she had more time, she would have won?

Speaker 3 I think if she had more time,

Speaker 3 I think it's two things. Time is certainly a factor, but we should have had a full, vibrant Democratic primary.

Speaker 3 Like Jake Tapper's book, Original Sin, I call it the most frustrating book I've ever read because I only believe half of it and the other half of it's like the most maddening shit I've ever read in my whole life.

Speaker 3 If Joe Biden had made the decision to not run for re-election, which is what I believe he should have done, he should have said in 2023, I'm not running.

Speaker 3 I believe I've done great work, but I'm 80-some years old. I need to step aside, right? We could have had a full, vibrant Democratic primary.

Speaker 3 And Kamala Harris would have been the frontrunner for that primary as the vice president. She likely would have won that, but she would have run against a field of 12 other highly qualified Democrats.

Speaker 3 She would have had more time and opportunity to build up a campaign. She would have done more podcasts like this.
She would have become a better candidate.

Speaker 3 Or if she didn't rise to the moment, we would have nominated somebody who had. And I think that's incredibly important.

Speaker 3 The last time we really had a full, vibrant primary where we didn't have like a sitting vice president sort of shadowing over the field was 2008.

Speaker 3 And we nominated Barack Obama, who, in my opinion, is the best political talent that's been generated in the last 40 years. Really? 40 years? I mean, who's more politically talented than Barack Obama?

Speaker 5 Talented, yeah. Yeah.
It's hard to argue with that.

Speaker 3 I mean, Trump is a talented politician. I'll give him that.
I think Zoran Mandani is a talented politician in New York City.

Speaker 3 I think Josh Holly on the Republican side deserves more credit for what he does.

Speaker 5 Yeah. But Obama, when it comes to just speeches and oration, was

Speaker 5 a monster. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, I was at his first rally in Iowa. I dropped out of college to work for him.

Speaker 5 Oh, Oh, wow. So was that the first political job you took?

Speaker 3 Yeah, it was the first. I mean, it wasn't a job.
So they called it a,

Speaker 3 I was supposed to be in class. I can vividly remember, it was supposed to be in music appreciation class.
That's a class? Yeah, it was a class.

Speaker 3 I was appreciating music, which I did in my day-to-day life, usually like being high as a college. Listening, listening, God knows what.

Speaker 3 I'm trying to think of the first song that comes to mind, like Sweetest Girl by White Cliff Shaw. But like, I don't know why that came to my mind.

Speaker 3 But no, I remember I dropped out. I got in a Red Ford pickup truck.
I drove all the way out there to beat his first rally.

Speaker 3 I'd been protesting the Iraq war for like, you know, middle of high school because I thought it was a stupid war. Oh, so you knew early.
I knew early that I was against the Iraq war. Wow.

Speaker 3 I didn't necessarily know that I was a Democrat yet. But Barack Obama was like the only person who was speaking a language that I understood.

Speaker 3 Like seemed like the future, seemed like opportunity, wanted to end the war, had a, you know, a message of like we can do better than this and turn the page. And I attached to that.

Speaker 3 And slowly as I built up my values after that, I find that they align more with the Democratic Party than the Republicans. But neither party's perfect.

Speaker 3 I mean, let's be clear, both parties generally suck. Yeah.

Speaker 5 I like that we could both agree on that.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, mean, I tell people all the time, like, I think if I just stopped working in Democratic politics, I'd probably be an independent.
I wouldn't change who I would vote for.

Speaker 3 Like, I think this version of the Republican Party is so far off the reservation that I can't possibly support the vast majority of them.

Speaker 3 Like, the last Republican for president I could have supported was probably John McCain. Okay.
Maybe Mitt Romney.

Speaker 3 But, you know, I just, even the Democratic Party, like, there's times where I don't feel like I've at home.

Speaker 5 Well, they've gone pretty far off, too, I feel like.

Speaker 3 I mean, on some areas. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Like, since Obama.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, I think on immigration, we've made a ton of mistakes.
I think the immigration policy under Biden just didn't make a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 And I think the problem is, like, we sort of swung it this way, and now it's swinging the other way.

Speaker 3 And so, I don't think Democrats did enough to secure the border and to remove violent criminals out of the country. I think it's just an objective reality that you have to acknowledge.

Speaker 3 So, then I think the reverse of that is that Trump is coming in now really, really hard and basically targeting every person who's black or brown and might not be here legally in this country.

Speaker 3 Like, I live in Chicago, and last Friday, I was out of town. I wasn't there when it happened, but they were just grabbing people off of the streets.

Speaker 3 So, somebody who's walking the streets, and like my neighbors, my whole neighborhood was like trying to prevent ice agents, massed ice agents from grabbing these people.

Speaker 3 They tear gassed people blocking a halfway from that. Yeah.
Like an hour before school got out. Holy crap.
So it's crazy.

Speaker 3 And like to me, it's like, look, we can have a debate about immigration policy. We can have a debate about what's right or what's wrong.

Speaker 3 People come in here legally or illegally, but like I don't think that massed federal agents driving unmarked cars should be grabbing people on the streets. That's pretty much it.

Speaker 3 That's the literal definition of fascism. It scares the hell out of me.

Speaker 3 You know, those like, um, those kind of gun nuts that like live in Wyoming and they have like 4,000 guns and they're like planning for, like, that's the type of shit shit that they warn about.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, I'm living that a little bit in Chicago right now. I'll be clear I'm super white.
They're never coming after me. But like, we're watching that happen to my neighbors.

Speaker 3 And I just don't, I just don't think that's right. But I think Democrats need to acknowledge that it's a consequence of how far to the left they went with immigration.

Speaker 3 When your policies don't make sense, people are going to embrace something that sort of slingshots back in the other direction. So I think Democrats have to acknowledge that.

Speaker 3 Still, Trump is responsible for that because he's allowing it to happen, not allowing it to happen. He wants it to happen.

Speaker 3 But we got to acknowledge that we're the reason it's he also did get fair fair warning, I feel. Fair warning to what? To like selling it.

Speaker 5 He was announcing that he was going to go pretty hard on deportations before he got elected.

Speaker 3 I mean, he did, but I think people just didn't believe him. I mean, if you asked the American people today, they'd be like, we didn't think that that's what this was going to be.

Speaker 3 Like, he promised in the campaign, I'm going to get rid of violent criminals, which is fine. I'm all for that.
You can find anybody that's been violent in this country, get them the hell out.

Speaker 3 I'm all for that. But if you're grabbing people at Home Depot who are trying to do a job, like, that's not right.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I sort of hate this idea of like, people come here legally, they come here illegally. Like, that's a breakdown of the system.

Speaker 3 Like, we have a border that isn't secure, and then we have an immigration system that doesn't work. We need these people to come here to do these jobs.
We want them here.

Speaker 3 I think we want anybody in this country that wants to work hard, that wants to take care of their family, and maybe every now and again they think about somebody other than themselves.

Speaker 3 To me, the immigration status at this point is a piece of paper.

Speaker 3 And I know a lot of people don't like that, but like, I don't think there's a lot of difference between me and somebody who, you know, took a very dangerous journey to get here, and now they're raising their family and their kids, and they're trying to do whatever work.

Speaker 3 work that they're doing. We should make sure that we secure the border.

Speaker 3 We should create a comprehensive pathway for citizenship for people who are here, make sure that they're paying their taxes, make sure that we get them here legally, pass through that marker, and then make sure that this doesn't happen again.

Speaker 3 And by the way, the whole reason it's happening is because billionaires in this country wanted access to cheap labor.

Speaker 3 They wanted this system to be broken so they could bring in people to work on their farms, to pick fruit, to do all kinds of jobs that they wanted, to be able to mow your lawn and stuff like that, and not invest in American jobs.

Speaker 3 So like, if we need those people to come in and do it, that's fine. Let's figure out the right way to do it.
And let's, like, neither political party wants to solve this problem.

Speaker 3 And I think that's a massive issue. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Have Have you been to any of the protests, the No Kings protests?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was at the No Kings protest in Chicago.

Speaker 5 Was that a week and a half ago? How was it? Yeah, I thought it was good.

Speaker 3 So I think there's something like 250,000 people in Chicago. White? That was awesome.
It was massive. I mean, I think they said total nationwide was like 8 million.

Speaker 5 Yeah. I drove, I got married in Jersey last week and I drove.

Speaker 5 Thank you. There was like a couple hundred people, but you're saying 250,000.

Speaker 3 250,000 in Chicago alone. It was massive.
It was like bumper to bumper. Jeez.
And, you know, J.B. Pritzker gave a great speech to a bunch of other people.

Speaker 3 I think the thing about the protest this time around that I noticed, not just that it was more people, it was how many people were carrying American flags.

Speaker 3 And what pisses me off about our politics today is the Republican Party has co-opted so many things that I hold really dear. They wrap themselves in the flag.
They hide behind their religion.

Speaker 3 They hide behind family values when they really don't represent any of them. You don't think so? I don't think so.
I don't think the Republican Party is any more patriotic than the Democratic Party.

Speaker 3 I think Democrats get scared because Republicans try to own that stuff. So then we're like, ooh, it's uncomfortable for us to wear an American flag.

Speaker 3 And like, no, I think we need to reclaim that stuff. Interesting.
They love to talk about family values. What are the Donald Trump family values?

Speaker 3 The guy's got like four kids with three different women. He cheats on them.

Speaker 3 He was on Howard Stern talking about how, you know, what was it, like the 80s were his own personal Vietnam because he was avoiding getting an STD. He talked about paying for abortions.

Speaker 3 Like, these are not people, at least this Republican Party. And by the way, I want to make it clear to people who are watching this.

Speaker 3 When I talk about Republicans, I talk about elected Republicans, I talk about Republican operatives and MAGA influencers. There's regular people, and then there's like our leaders.

Speaker 3 I think you have to separate that out because I believe that there are a lot of Republican voters who really truly are good, hardworking, patriotic Americans who I have massive disagreements with on many issues.

Speaker 3 And they're voting for the option that they resonate more with. Again, two options, generally usually shitty choices for people.
But Donald Trump doesn't care about family values.

Speaker 3 Donald Trump is not patriotic. Like America first to him is Trump first.
It's everything better for him. That's why I keep harping on this like Argentina thing.

Speaker 3 So they gave $50 billion, $40 billion, excuse me, to Argentina to bail out their economy because the guy is a Trump ally with close ties to one of Trump's billionaire buddies. That's all that that is.

Speaker 3 It's a massive billionaire.

Speaker 5 You got nothing out of it?

Speaker 3 We've got nothing out of it. No, and we're never going to get that money back.
I don't believe we'll ever get it back. And by the way.

Speaker 3 It's not even a loan. They just gave it to them to prop up the economy.
What? Yeah, I think

Speaker 3 they're buying the, is it peso, Argentina and Peso? Peso?

Speaker 5 I don't know what it is.

Speaker 3 I believe they're buying their currency to prop up the economy in Argentina. And then what happens right after that is Argentina sells all of their soybeans to China, which kills America's soybean.

Speaker 3 So they didn't even negotiate a deal where it was like, don't sell your soybeans to China.

Speaker 5 Yeah, at least get that out of it, right?

Speaker 3 Like these soybean farmers are getting killed right now. Like all they want to do is be able to sell what they've created.
That's all they want to do.

Speaker 3 I mean, most of these people are like hardworking.

Speaker 3 They've been tilling the land forever and now they can't move their product. And if they're moving it, it's like at 50% of the value of what they normally do.
So they're just getting killed.

Speaker 5 Farmers here are getting wrecked.

Speaker 3 I got a lot of them on the show.

Speaker 3 The Iowa economy, the Iowa's economy, which I think is mostly soybeans at this point, is like completely collapsing. Shit.
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I talked to a lot of farmers here and used to be able to make a living off it, but now

Speaker 5 it's really hard.

Speaker 3 And honestly, I think they want to kill the farming, what remains of the farming industry because they want more rich people to buy it up.

Speaker 3 Like this weekend, Trump's Treasury Secretary, who's also a billionaire, by the way, Scott, maybe he's like a 700 millionaire, maybe not quite a bit.

Speaker 5 70-millionaire.

Speaker 3 We'll go round up on him. But he was on, I think, ABC with Martha Radditz, and he was talking about, well, you know, I'm a soybean farmer too, so like I'm feeling this pain.

Speaker 3 Well, no, he's a rich guy who owns the land that he leases out to people who are who are soybean farmers. So he's feeling that pain because his people can't pay their bills right now.

Speaker 3 What I think is happening is they want all these farmers to go bankrupt to move off so that they can buy that land and then they can start tilling the land themselves.

Speaker 3 So the people who are going to do well in Trump's economy are people who already have so much money because they're going to be able to ride that wave. So

Speaker 3 when the economy eventually falls apart, which I believe that it is on the verge of, I believe that'll happen, I believe in the next year.

Speaker 3 Because if you just look at the stock market, it's something like 80, 90% of all the growth in the stock market in the last year, all the GDP growth too, is all in AI companies.

Speaker 3 So it feels like this massive bubble. Nothing else is growing.
Nothing else is getting more profitable.

Speaker 3 And so I think when that pops, you're going to find a lot of like very wealthy people who are able to afford large quantities of gold and have like resources that they can sort of lean on.

Speaker 3 They're going to be able to reinvest in the economy. And then when it shoots back up again, you know, a couple of years from now, you're going to be, they're going to be in a really good spot.

Speaker 3 And then average Americans are never going to get a bailout, which is exactly what happened in the financial crisis.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Rinse and repeat, right? Happens every 15, 20 years.
Yep.

Speaker 3 That's crazy. And like you and I are entrepreneurs, we've done pretty well.
Like we'll be able to navigate that situation for ourselves and probably increase our net worth for it.

Speaker 3 But the average person that's limited paycheck to paycheck can't do that.

Speaker 3 Oh, they're wrecked yeah they're screwed um did you know china owns a lot of farmland here yeah that's concerning china's been buying up all kinds of things this reminds me of like saudi arabia is buying up all our sports teams like that scares the out of me yeah they want to get in the nba now too yeah yep i would like them not to do that yeah i kind of like that the nfl keeps telling them to go off

Speaker 3 nba's going through some stuff right now i mean nba's got i mean the the whole uh cheat uh poker scandal right crazy poker and sports betting poker and sports betting is it is it sports betting are they shaving points i haven't thought uh so there's two different charges okay so half of it's poker they were rigging games with like glasses or whatever and card readers.

Speaker 3 They were rigging it with glasses?

Speaker 5 Like with meta glasses? One of the players could see the cards. That's incredible.
And then allegedly.

Speaker 5 But when it's the feds, we kind of know. They got a lot of evidence on that.

Speaker 3 I don't know. This version of the federal government, I don't know.

Speaker 3 Cash Patel's shown his ass more than a few times, but I do think this is the kind of thing they're probably right about.

Speaker 5 Well, the timing of that seemed weird because NBA just started and then he announced it. Yeah.
So it just seemed very strategic.

Speaker 3 Probably when the investigation was over with. I don't know.
My dad is a 34-year veteran of the FBI. He retired a few years ago.
I try to separate out, again, like Cash Patel's a politician.

Speaker 3 He runs the FBI. I don't think he's qualified for it, but I know that the men and women who work at the FBI are hardworking, trying to keep us safe, trying to root out criminals like this.

Speaker 3 So I want to trust that that investigation is right.

Speaker 5 Well, my view of the FBI is I've lost faith. Okay, tell me.
Not entirely, but I just feel like there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on these days. Like what? Like the Charlie Kirk thing.

Speaker 5 We don't have to get too conspiratorial, but it's just.

Speaker 3 No, let's get it. I want to talk about that.

Speaker 5 I mean, it seemed fishy to me.

Speaker 3 You don't think that guy killed Charlie Kirk?

Speaker 5 I don't think so. Do you buy that narrative?

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Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, I buy, I buy, I buy that that guy killed Charlie Kirk.
Okay. Like, I so what was his name Tyler Robinson? Yeah.
Yeah. So I buy the Tyler Robinson and killed Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 3 I don't buy some of the other stuff. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist.
Those text messages are some of the weirdest shit I've ever heard. Weird, right?

Speaker 3 The text messages, if you've never seen them, folks, please don't look them up. They're literally like, hello, my love.
I have murdered Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 3 I have left the gun at the following longitude and latitude for the FBI to find. They're so weird, but there is a conspiracy theory like the other way of that.

Speaker 3 So there's the one version is the FBI made those texts to whatever, blame it on liberals or whatever it is.

Speaker 3 But the reverse side of it is, I've seen this from MAGA World a lot, is that it's a Walter White Schuyler White situation from Breaking Bad where they sent those texts specifically so the FBI would have them later to make it look like the partner didn't do it.

Speaker 3 So I don't know. And part of this goes back to a fundamental problem of trust.
You want to be able to trust the head of the FBI.

Speaker 3 You want to be able to trust the president of the United States when something goes wrong and they have to go, you know, like when

Speaker 3 9-11 happened, like George W. Bush had to go up and lead the nation through a terrible time.
Imagine 9-11 happening with Donald Trump as president right now.

Speaker 3 Half of people wouldn't believe him just because he lies about everything.

Speaker 3 And I think like probably the bottom 25% of MAGA world would probably not believe him just because they're conspiracy theory related, right? So that's been just allowed to foment.

Speaker 3 So I think you have a huge issue.

Speaker 3 So Cash, during the Charlie Kirk investigation, announcing twice that they already had the shooter was an aggressively stupid thing to do because now I won't trust him.

Speaker 5 That's what I mean. Right.

Speaker 3 And then two weeks later, you had that shooting at Dallas where there was somebody somebody started firing at, they claimed it was firing at ICE agents. They murdered three migrants.

Speaker 3 And then like within an hour of that shooting, Cash Patel posted a photo and said that the shooter had anti-ice ideology on the bullet.

Speaker 3 And then the person had just written the word anti-ice on the bullet. And like, I'll be honest with you, I don't buy the hell out of that.
I don't buy that at all.

Speaker 3 Cause I just don't think a regular person or any person writes anti-ice. Maybe fuck ice, maybe abolish ice, something like that.
But I don't think they ever write anti-ice. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It just feels fishy to me.

Speaker 3 And again, if he was somebody you could trust who had earned that trust, who knew what they were doing, an adult in the room, you might go, all right, that's weird, but I trust you.

Speaker 3 But I don't have that trust.

Speaker 5 I don't have it right now. And

Speaker 5 we're leaving out the Epstein stuff too. I mean,

Speaker 3 that's what first. You could do a whole hour on Epstein.

Speaker 5 Yeah, that's what first affected my trust levels. And then Charlie Vane just took it up a notch, but the Epstein stuff was crazy.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, the thing about the Epstein stuff is, look, I don't know what Donald Trump did or didn't do.
I don't know what these billionaires did or didn't do.

Speaker 3 They've decided that not releasing the Epstein files is better than this situation.

Speaker 3 So right now, they're making a choice that if you see what's in there, it's worse than like this whole scandal of not knowing and the backtracking and the weird letter.

Speaker 3 And, like, this is not a good political situation for them.

Speaker 3 And it goes back to my fundamental critique of the Trump administration: the only thing that they care about is protecting and enriching themselves. And Donald Trump wants to keep himself safe.

Speaker 3 He wants to keep himself out of prison. Donald Trump wants to put money in his pocket.
He wants to keep his billionaire friends out of jail, too. And I really think that's all that it is.

Speaker 3 But the Epstein scandal is so indicative of the broader problem in america which is wealthy rich people never held accountable for their crimes never and i go back to the wall this is one criticism i have of barack obama and i have a ton of respect for barack obama i'm very proud to have worked for him back in the day but they should have held people accountable for the wall street crisis like tens of millions of americans lost their homes do you know how many people went to prison for the wall street scandal zero zero i think it might be one guy i think it was like one guy went to prison It was ridiculous.

Speaker 3 Do you know how many people have gone to prison for the Epstein stuff? One person, Julian Maxwell. I mean, Epstein died in prison, so he was never found guilty of anything.

Speaker 3 So like, I have a hard time believing that you have these two massive scandals, and they're very different in their scale, where there's only two people who are ever responsible for that.

Speaker 5 Like, that's insane to me. It is insane.
Yeah, the crisis, there should have been hundreds of people locked up for that one.

Speaker 3 Yep, hundreds of financial crisis. Yep.
And there should probably be hundreds of people who knew what was going on with Epstein. And I don't think it's a Democratic or Republican thing.

Speaker 3 I think there's probably plenty of Democrats on there. I'd be happy to kick the hell out of anybody in that manifest.

Speaker 3 And at a minimum, anybody who was there should have to explain why they were there. Yeah.
And go, yeah, I was on the plane. I didn't know what it was.

Speaker 3 I was networking or I was trying to get a grant because Epstein provided a lot of grants for like science and art. Yeah, he was top 10 with Harvard, right? Right.
Yeah. I mean, he was a savvy guy.

Speaker 3 He understood how to use money. He was a gross piece of shit and an abuser of young men and young women.
But, you know, we need to expose this stuff.

Speaker 3 Like, I feel like this is why people don't engage in the American political system. They just think everything is corrupt and rigged.

Speaker 3 And it allows for somebody like Trump to get elected because Trump is, in my view, the most corrupt president in American history.

Speaker 3 But most Americans actually give him credit for how corrupt he is because he's so brazen.

Speaker 3 They go, at least he's doing it out in the open. Unlike all these other politicians.
And like, I kind of get that. It drives me crazy.
I kind of get it, honestly.

Speaker 3 It makes you sort of respect him a little bit.

Speaker 5 Yeah, because at least you're seeing what he's doing and he's saying he's going to do it and he's doing it. Right.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Rather than like you find out 10 years later this guy took a deal behind it.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Or, you know, like, or protect it.

Speaker 3 You know, I think what happens with a lot of politicians is they protect certain industries and then when their careers are over, they go lobby for them for 15 years.

Speaker 3 And like, that's a form of corruption and bribery that I think could be outlawed in this country. And it would be good.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I know you're on the fundraising side, too. I'm sure you've seen a lot of wild stuff.

Speaker 3 Oh, I mean, I mean, I've raised over probably at this point a billion and a half dollars for Democrat candidates, all through like low-dollar, small-dollar contributions. Oh, really? No big donors?

Speaker 3 No, I don't do big donor stuff at all. So it's all five, ten dollar increments.

Speaker 5 And you were able to raise over a billion dollars?

Speaker 3 Yeah, over a billion dollars. Like I worked for Bernie Sanders in 2016.
He helped do the Crowdforce campaign.

Speaker 3 And I've worked with a whole bunch of others, Kamala Harris, Gretchen Whitmer, who's the governor of Michigan, Adam Schiff,

Speaker 3 who's the senator from California. And I love

Speaker 3 I've loved grassroots donors my whole career because I think that the biggest problem in Washington is that corporate PACs and lobbyists and rich billionaires control everything that happens there.

Speaker 3 Now you've reached a situation where 40, 50% of fundraising for Democratic candidates comes from small dollar donors.

Speaker 3 So regular people have as much say, I think, in what Democrats are willing, are able to do in Washington as rich people. Now, the challenge is there's not like one group of people lobbying for them.

Speaker 3 So the impact of that isn't as effective. But if we could get to a point where if it were me, I would make my job useless.

Speaker 3 I would just, I would ban my job altogether simply because I would make campaigns publicly financed. Really? You should be able to, you want to run for Congress, you should go to your community.

Speaker 3 There should be some kind of metric for how many petitions you need to get signed. You get those petitions signed to show that you are a viable candidate in your community.

Speaker 3 Let's say it's 5,000 or something like that. You get that done.
And then the government gives you whatever, $250,000 to run your campaign, and that's it.

Speaker 3 And that's what a lot of other Western democracies do.

Speaker 5 I like that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I think it'd be much, much better.

Speaker 5 I think there should be a cap to make it fair, too.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think there should be no super pack spending. I would ban that.
I think the idea that money is speech is ridiculous. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like the idea that Jeff Bezos can have whatever 300,000 times more influence in our politics than I do is ridiculous.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Yeah.
These companies have gotten so big lately that they have so much influence, right, on politics.

Speaker 3 And they carry

Speaker 3 so much cash, too. I mean, Apple carries like an incredible amount of cash.

Speaker 3 You know, but I mean, you have billionaires that you've never even heard of that are some of the most powerful players in Washington, people that are just pulling the strings.

Speaker 3 And by the way, they're pulling the strings for both parties. And I think that's wrong.
And what I loved about like Bernie's campaign in 2016 is like all of his money, he raised $300 million.

Speaker 3 All of it came from people given the average donation was $27. Wow.
And so part of the reason, like, you know, you can feel whoever you want about Bernie Sanders.

Speaker 3 And I tend to love Bernie and I tend to agree with him the most on like economic populism because I think we need a lot more of that in this country. I think we're like capitalism is not bad.

Speaker 3 I'm a capitalist myself. I'm not like, again, I'm an entrepreneur like you.
So like I've benefited from capitalism, but unfettered capitalism is bad for people.

Speaker 3 Like when we're allowing people to make so much money at the top, you're just leaving people fighting for scraps at the bottom. And I would argue 80% of Americans are just fighting for table scraps.

Speaker 5 They live in paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they're lucky if they're living paycheck to paycheck right now.

Speaker 3 The number of people who are financing their lunch orders on Klarna or using GoFundMe to get groceries is like through the roof. Really? I think Klarna at this point is basically a Potsi scam.

Speaker 3 Holy crap. I think it's like those CDOs.
Have you ever watched The Big Short? Yeah. Yeah.
Where they explain how the CDOs work? I feel like that's Klarna. Wow.

Speaker 3 And just like, if you look at their financials, I think Klarna lost something like,

Speaker 3 I'm going to get the number wrong. People are going to mad at me.
I think it was like millions of dollars. They lost just an insane amount of time.

Speaker 5 They're not even profitable.

Speaker 3 They're not even profitable because people are defaulting on their loans. They're not paying.
Wow. It's only going to get worse.

Speaker 3 Like, I actually genuinely think the government i have to bail out klarna holy crap yeah afterpay is another one too yeah after pay um yeah there's a couple of them i bought i've never i've never used them i bought my eight sleep mattress on it because it there was zero percent interest so how did they make money i mean i well they i think they make money off of it don't they they they take a they take a cut i've never used it so i don't actually the one i did was zero percent interest that might be because you had good credit okay i think i think that's what it is so like i bought you know i bought a car i don't know five six years ago um and they offered me a zero percentage because

Speaker 3 uh i mean it's possible that wherever you bought it from had a deal with klarna i don't quite I don't know 100% know how Klarna works, but I know that those tools are specifically designed for people that don't have good credit.

Speaker 3 Because otherwise you just get a credit card and you pay it back a month.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 Try to get your points.

Speaker 5 This morning with the Israel stuff, I mean, you were the one that broke it to me, but crazy, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, I mean, look,

Speaker 3 for those that haven't seen it at the time that we're recording this, like, Israel is currently launching airstrikes on Gaza again. And I've been saying this for the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 Like, Trump bringing the hostages home from Israel is phenomenal news. Like, I mean, I think it was the remaining, like, 20 hostages.
Joe Biden brought something like 80 back.

Speaker 3 Like, it's good that they're home. And I'm super happy with that.

Speaker 3 There was a four-part peace plan here. Part one was bringing the hostages home.

Speaker 3 Parts two, three, and four involved Hamas demilitarizing, stepping down as the government, holding free and fair elections, like withdrawing, and then Israel withdrawing from parts of the occupied territories that they're taken, right?

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I watched MAGA influencers just go, Trump has brought peace to the Middle East. Everything's great.
Look at this amazing art of the deal. And I kept going, Hamas hasn't agreed to any of that.

Speaker 3 They just agreed to bring the hostages home. And so I think we're in a moment where Trump is is just doing what he always does, which is over-promising and under-delivering.

Speaker 3 So again, good that he brought the hostages home. I'm not going to like shit on him for that.
It's an amazing thing. But he didn't close the deal on this.

Speaker 3 And so now Israel is aggressively attacking Gaza again. I mean, Hamas, I think, has been pretty violent themselves, too.
I do not, I'm not a Hamas supporter. I think they're a terrorist organization.

Speaker 3 So that does not excuse the genocide that is happening in Israel, to be clear.

Speaker 3 But and the starvation, by the way, the starvation is horrific in Gaza. But, you know, this is not, like, Donald Trump has not delivered peace to the the Middle East.

Speaker 3 And I get a little bit frustrated just from like a critique of the way the internet is now when you log on and like everything that Donald Trump does is either like amazingly good, the best thing ever, or it's the worst thing ever.

Speaker 3 Like there are things that he does that are okay. But when I watch MAGA influencers go, peace in our time, and they did this again

Speaker 3 when Trump invited Putin to Alaska. He brought a brutal dictator to American soil in an attempt to get peace with Ukraine.

Speaker 3 And if you would listen to Fox News and every MAGA influencer that day, they were like, Donald Trump is ending the Ukraine war. It's going to be the best, peaceful, golden age of America.

Speaker 3 And Putin made him look like a jackass, in my opinion. And we got nothing from him.
And then, like, a few days later, he literally bombed an American factory in Ukraine.

Speaker 3 And a few weeks later, he started drone, not like fucking with drones in Poland, right? Because he's just testing his power.

Speaker 3 So I think we continue to just look like, we look like the weakest we've ever been on the national stage, international stage.

Speaker 5 He has said he made peace with seven wars, though, right? Yeah, it's horseshit. Have you looked into those?

Speaker 3 I mean, he can't name them. I can't.
No. I mean, I think he was,

Speaker 3 I forget which two countries it was, but it was like Armenia and Turkmenistan Turkmenistan or something like that. And the two world leaders, they'd never been at war.

Speaker 3 The two world leaders were meeting at some conference and they were caught on a hot mic making fun of how ridiculous it was. No way.
Yeah. So, I mean, again, he just lies about everything.

Speaker 3 And I'll tell you one of the worst that he claims that he ended. So India and Pakistan had some hostilities earlier this year.

Speaker 3 And, you know, Marco Rubio stepped in and a bunch of others stepped in and they were able to end that conflict. Good.
I got no problem with that.

Speaker 3 The issue that I have with it is that's the type of conflict that never happens with strong American power in the world today.

Speaker 3 If America was strong, if we had a president that people feared, if we had a military that people feared, if we had hard power, which is our military, soft power, which is our relationships and our ability to move money and resources, then India and Pakistan are never going to go to war like that.

Speaker 3 They're never going to have that skirmish because we're going to be able to stop it before they happen. And I believe under Reagan's administration, Bush's administration,

Speaker 3 first Bush, second Bush, Clinton, Obama, they were all able to stop conflicts that none of us know about because they had those relationships to prevent them from happening. Interesting.

Speaker 3 And I think with Trump, you have a lot more things that are breaking out and then they're stopping them after the fact, and it's because they can't stop them.

Speaker 3 They either don't have the relationships or we lack the soft power. Like let's remember USAID for a second.
One of the very first things they did was they completely dismantled USAID.

Speaker 3 You can feel however you want about USAID. You can feel however you want about money that gets moved over from the United States to other countries.
You can talk about America first. I get that.

Speaker 3 The value of the soft power of being able to provide financial resources to other countries is the influence we have in moments when we need it.

Speaker 3 And so all the initiatives that, and by the way, I'm sure that there was a ton of wasteful spending.

Speaker 3 I'm sure that there was a ton of like stupid shit. I got asked once about,

Speaker 3 I think it was like Irish folk dancing lessons that

Speaker 3 the USAID had paid for. And I was like, I don't know.
It sounds stupid, but like, I'd have to talk to the person who like approved it. Like, maybe there was a reason for it.

Speaker 3 But, you know, so it was stupid. And, but, like, all those programs, like in Africa that they cut, they're not gone.
The money is being filled by China.

Speaker 3 So, China is ascendant on the world stage right now because they're spending more money. They're getting cozier with everybody.
They're doing more trade because of the tariffs.

Speaker 3 And do you feel safer in a world where China is stronger? Do you feel safer in a world where Russia is more emboldened militarily? I don't. I don't.
And I think that's why it's important.

Speaker 3 I think what you want to talk about Democrats for a second.

Speaker 3 Democrats spent that whole time going, it's so horrible what's happening to these kids in Africa, and it's so horrible what's happening for this and that and the other thing.

Speaker 3 And they tug at your heartstrings. And don't get me wrong, they're right about that.
It is terrible. But we need to explain to people why these things matter to them in their lives.

Speaker 3 If we don't have strong soft power in the United States, if we don't have a president that people either fear or trust or have relationships with or have qualified diplomats who can go out there and do it, we're a lot less safe.

Speaker 3 And we're more likely to have conflict break out. Like it's unacceptable that Putin violated the airspace of a NATO ally.
And we're not even talking about it right now.

Speaker 3 It happened the day before Charlie Kirk got assassinated. I think we'd be talking about it more.
Wow. If Kirk had not been assassinated, it would have probably been the biggest story of that week.
But

Speaker 3 fate stepped in the way. I don't know how else to describe it.
It was horrible.

Speaker 3 Holy crap.

Speaker 5 Yeah, no one talks about Doge anymore, too.

Speaker 3 No, well, I mean, Doge is effectively, Doge is a massive failure. And this goes back to something I said at the beginning of the podcast.
Like, Trump is really good

Speaker 3 at identifying the the problems that are in this country that politicians won't talk about. So, Trump is right.
There's a ton of waste, fraud, and abuse in the federal government. Just a ton of it.

Speaker 3 There would have to be. It's a massive bureaucracy, right? My guess is if I started looking at Amazon's books, I would

Speaker 3 any big company. I mean, you and I know there's probably fraud in our company, not fraud, but absolutely, no fraud in our companies.

Speaker 3 There's probably some waste in our businesses, you know, like it's human capital. Like, people are going to fuck up, or things are going to change.

Speaker 3 You might have a job that people don't need anymore that you need to evolve into something else. Like, that's real.
So, I think the idea of Doge is not a bad idea.

Speaker 3 Like, go in, work together, both parties, try to figure out where's money that we can save, where can we redirect it, where are their efficiencies? Like, the government is completely inefficient.

Speaker 3 Completely. Like, I mean, I think it's ridiculous when people argue that it's not.
I do think the government is more a force for good than bad in the country, but there's plenty of things.

Speaker 3 Like, as a small business owner, there's plenty of times the government gets in the way. I think there's a ton of regulations that just don't make sense.
And it's okay to like acknowledge that.

Speaker 3 The problem is they take it too far. So, what Doge did, Doge was just indiscriminately cutting people, many of whom they had to hire back.

Speaker 3 They cut programs for like cancer research for kids. Like that seems like a pretty important thing I want the government spending money on.

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 frankly, these pharmaceutical companies, there's not a lot of money for them to make from like curing kids cancer, which I think is insane to me.

Speaker 3 But we want the government like funding research like that so that we can prevent these things from happening.

Speaker 3 I want to make sure that the government is making sure we have clean water and clean air and that the shit that they put in my food isn't. This is all right.

Speaker 3 Like I agree with like the bottom third of what RFK Jr. wants to do.
Like there's like

Speaker 3 get the red dye out. Okay.
I'm with you. You know, that they put a lot of shit in our chemicals.
Then he'll like go off and be like, well, circumcision causes autism.

Speaker 3 I'm like, well, you're a fucking lunatic. I don't care.
Right.

Speaker 3 Acetametophen. Can you say it? Do you know how to pronounce it? No.

Speaker 3 Donald Trump can't pronounce it. I can't pronounce it.
Have you seen the clip of him trying to do it? I haven't. He's just like, I'll do my bad trip personation for a second.
Acina meta.

Speaker 3 Is that right? What are we doing? Aceta meta pasapina pedadan. Like, I just, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 But I don't want politicians making medical decisions. I don't want them making the decisions of like,

Speaker 3 you know, what and with Doge, again, it's like they were just cutting things indiscriminately, and I just don't think that that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 But again, he's right, and Democrats had this reflexive problem of, oh, let me defend every bureaucracy in the federal government, which doesn't make any fucking sense.

Speaker 5 That Tylenol announcement, I remember they hyped it up the day before Trump tweeted like huge announcement tomorrow. I was like, oh, what is this about? And then I saw it was about Tylenol.

Speaker 5 I was like, wow, that's interesting.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 3 they have no evidence that Tylenol causes autism. None.
The biggest study that's ever been done has found that there's no link between the two. None.

Speaker 5 It was for pregnant women, right? Taking it.

Speaker 3 It was for pregnant women who were taking it. And And there was like a there was a massive trial that was done and there's just no evidence of it.
So again, they're making RFK Jr.

Speaker 3 believes in a lot of weird shit. And some of it's right.

Speaker 3 But, you know, and I say this, like, people are going to look at me and they're going to go, well, you're like a big guy, Mike. Like, you don't know anything about being healthy.

Speaker 3 Well, I used to weigh 600 pounds. And I would frame it to you this way.
Like. I got addicted to what's in the food that we had.
Like, I'm a food addict to America.

Speaker 3 I'm not a food addict when I'm like overseas because it's not filled with additives and shit that like makes me want to eat it. But like, I'm a food addict in the United States.

Speaker 3 And because of that, I allowed myself to get to 600 pounds, amongst other things that happened.

Speaker 3 I've now lost about 300 so I'm at a much more normalish weight and I have a long way to go so I want to see the government work on that RFK Jr.

Speaker 3 has a lot to say about beef tallow and fries he has a lot to say about Tylenol he has nothing to add sugar in our food and added sugar is probably the greatest creator of cancer in the United States today because added sugar is just pumped in everything not only that but then the um the replacements and the what's the thing they put in diet coke that uh

Speaker 3 yeah i can't remember i don't even drink soda um yeah i try not to drink too much of it i don't remember I forget what it's called, but whatever that fake sugar is. Dextros, stuff like that.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Stevia, things like that.

Speaker 5 Damn, 600 pounds. Was there a specific moment where you were like, I need to get my shit together?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was. So I'd been so focused on work that I was basically trying to kill myself with food.
Yeah. It's just what I realized.

Speaker 3 Stress eating or yeah, stress eating, but I would also just eat when I was happy. It was like any emotion, a natural response was just to eat.

Speaker 3 And, you know,

Speaker 3 I drank a lot too. In my 20s, I drank a lot.
I think the only reason I'm still alive is that I stopped drinking when I was like 26. So I really, very rarely, I'll drink like a Guinness.

Speaker 3 It's the only thing I do. Guinness, by the the way, to an Irishman is not alcohol, just a loaf of bread.

Speaker 3 But you know, I was at my brother's wedding. He asked me to be the best man and stand up there with him and I physically couldn't stand.
Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'll show you a photo when we're done of what I looked like when I was 600 pounds. But I couldn't stand and I had to make an excuse to sit down and I was really embarrassed.

Speaker 3 And I wrote this plan on my phone that is titled Hot by 40. It just is like a bit.
And I've been like slowly working at it every single day. Respect to it.
It was about four years ago.

Speaker 5 Dude, respect. That's awesome, man.

Speaker 5 What weight are you trying to get to?

Speaker 3 I'm trying to get to like, I think like 250, 240. And then probably what I have to do is I'm going to have a lot of like excess skin.
I'm going to have to have it removed.

Speaker 3 And when you've lost that much weight, you just kind of have to do reconstructive surgery.

Speaker 5 That makes sense. Yeah, you were dealing with some mental health stuff, too, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, anxiety, depression, loneliness, a lot of things that a lot of men are going through right now. And I think we have an epidemic of these things.

Speaker 3 And I never see either political party talk about them, period.

Speaker 3 But I think we're in this environment where people have never been more connected, but we've never been more isolated from one another. Like that digital connection is not real.
It's not the same.

Speaker 3 No, it's not the same.

Speaker 5 That's why I do as many pods as I can in person.

Speaker 3 I was actually really impressed when you invited me to do this in person.

Speaker 3 And part of the reason I did it is I watched your show and I was like, you know what, I want to meet this guy and I want to do this in person.

Speaker 3 And I think we'll get like a better vibe and energy than if we do it all day.

Speaker 5 100%. It's always way better.

Speaker 3 I hate that, like, so I have my sub-stack. It's called Endless Urgency for folks that want to check it out.

Speaker 3 And I do most of them online. And they're good.
They're fun. I enjoy them.
I get a nice little fill from them. But I did my first in-person interview.

Speaker 3 We rented a studio in Chicago and had Congressman Maxwell Frost, who was in town, do it with us. I got more energy from that than any other time I've ever done.
Exactly.

Speaker 3 More fun, more interesting, more vibes, built a better relationship with him. We're building a content studio for that reason.
And so I think for me,

Speaker 3 I had untreated personal and professional traumas that then manifested in a massive anxiety disorder and massive depression. It funneled its way through food.

Speaker 3 I never cut myself or anything like that, but I do think I was suicidal in those years.

Speaker 3 And it all kind of culminated in a situation where I was so big I couldn't go do anything. I was married and it was with my wife.
We were watching like the same five TV shows on repeat.

Speaker 3 It was like parks and recreation, the office, good place. We just cycle through.
And that wasn't real meaningful connection. It wasn't really a life.

Speaker 3 And I got lucky that when the pandemic hit, we had just moved to Chicago. We had a one-year-old baby boy who I loved to death.

Speaker 3 And about halfway through the pandemic, I had the worst anxiety attack of my life because I literally hadn't talked to another human being other than my wife in person for like six months because I've been trapped inside.

Speaker 3 And that fucks you up.

Speaker 3 And the good news is I had such a bottoming out in that moment that I was able to get the help that I needed.

Speaker 3 And then I spent the better part of that year like getting my head right and building some real mental toughness, building some real understanding of like, okay, I got to let some things go.

Speaker 3 Like I was mad at my dad about shit shit that happened 30 years ago. I was mad at like a boss that had happened, something that happened 10 years ago.

Speaker 3 I was holding on to a less of when you hold on to that, you hold it on for somebody else. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 You're really like, you're polluting yourself. You think you're punishing that person, but you're punishing yourself.

Speaker 5 No, it's worse for yourself, honestly. Honestly, yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, I think that like,

Speaker 3 it's sort of the opposite of grief. You know, grief is considered a negative emotion.
But what grief is just the expression of the love that you can't give. That's really what that is.

Speaker 3 And I think that like holding on to that kind of the hate that I had or whatever you want to call it, it's just sort of just sort of the opposite. So it polluted me.

Speaker 3 And then it took me a year to get my my head right. And then I've always described it this way.

Speaker 3 It's like I was sort of climbing out of a deep, dark hole where I couldn't see myself or understand what I had done to myself.

Speaker 3 And then when I got my head to a place where I'm the guy you see before you today, like mentally, I looked in the mirror and I was like, holy shit, I'm 600 pounds.

Speaker 3 I might want to do something about that. Yeah.
Yeah. So I'm lucky to be alive.

Speaker 5 Dude, thanks for being so open about that. I know that wasn't easy.
I dealt with some really bad mental stuff too. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And you're on the other side of it, or you feel like? Yeah.

Speaker 5 I was on Xanax. I was like having a panic attack as soon as I left the house.

Speaker 5 Some of those panic attacks feel like heart attacks. Yeah.
Have you ever had a heart attack?

Speaker 3 You ever had one where you're like literally outside your body? Oh, no. That's not true.
I used to get them where I felt like I was outside my body. I could literally see myself.
It's crazy.

Speaker 3 Good and out of body tonight. Absolutely crazy shit.
Oh, my God. I assume that that was like a made-up TV thing about being out of your body.

Speaker 5 No, I know people that have had those, but I've never heard it from a panic attack.

Speaker 3 It's crazy. I could see myself right here.
As if there was like a camera on me down here, I could see it.

Speaker 5 So the pain was so much, or you had to disassociate it.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I literally disassociated from my body. Yeah.
Holy shit. In the middle of like a conference call or I was getting yelled at by a client.
No way. Yeah.
Jeez. It was nuts.
Dude. Yep.

Speaker 5 So that brought out a spiritual side to you too, too, though.

Speaker 3 I don't recommend it. Yeah.
I don't recommend it.

Speaker 3 No, it pushed me closer to my faith, honestly, as a practicing Catholic.

Speaker 5 Well, respect, man. That's awesome.

Speaker 3 We do have a soul. It can leave your body.

Speaker 5 You feeling optimistic about the midterms and 28 presidential votes?

Speaker 3 But, you know, before we get that, we've got elections coming up next week. So we've got Virginia, New Jersey, a lot of little local elections.
Jersey's looking close. I don't think it'll be close.

Speaker 3 You don't think so? If I had to guess, I think she wins by eight. Okay.
But maybe more than that. Last poll I saw was tied.
I'm skeptical. Okay.
But, you know, whatever.

Speaker 3 It's recorded now, so I'm going to get, you know, everybody can can fucking wreck me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 I don't know that it'll be that close. I grew up in Jersey, so.
Did you? I do a lot of Jersey work. I'm not working on the race right now, but

Speaker 3 I don't think it's going to be that close. I think we're going to be in an okay position.
I don't want to get overly confident because you never know.

Speaker 3 And I've been overly confident in the past and been surprised. But I think the Democrats are going to win these statewide elections.

Speaker 3 I think the one that's the most interesting to me is Virginia Attorney General because the Democratic candidate said some stupid shit in a text message.

Speaker 3 And, you know, about he basically made, I don't know if you've seen it, but you know, the office meme where it's like, if I had to, if I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and Toby, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Two bullets, I shoot Toby twice. He basically made that joke, but about a Republican member of the legislature, which you should not fucking do.
Like, it's offensive.

Speaker 3 And so he's getting a lot of hell for that, and the people are going to decide whether or not that's disqualifying or not. So I think that's the most interesting race that's going to come up.

Speaker 5 Wow. I always assume my text calls are being monitored.
Oh, 100%. You just got to move that way these days.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, I mean, you got to live kind of a theory.

Speaker 5 Especially in our space, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Anytime I put anything in writing, I'm living on the front page of the New York Times.

Speaker 5 Yeah. You just got to assume you have an audience.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 The one benefit to me is like, I'm not full of of shit. Like you'll get a lot of, I mean, I think you've had some good guests like Adam Machler and Harry and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 But like you'll get politicians that'll come in here and do this and like they don't know what they believe. So they're just like resuscitating

Speaker 3 talking points. It's just most boring.
Like I know what I believe.

Speaker 3 So like if you and I, if you turned off the mic right now and we weren't recording, we'd have the same fucking conversation that we're having right now.

Speaker 3 If we were at a bar with a beer, we'd be having the same conversation. Like I'm just the same, my dad had a phrase that I've now co-opted.

Speaker 3 When I would tell my dad he's being an asshole, he goes, well, at least I'm the same asshole in every room. And I'm like, that's how I felt.
I'm like, same asshole in every room.

Speaker 5 What percentage of politicians you've worked with would you say were authentic? Like they actually, like off-camera, they were talking about the same stuff.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I would kind of bucket it into three different

Speaker 3 types of clients that I've worked with. It's like ones who are true believers.
They have something that they have to say that they got to get off their chest that they believe in.

Speaker 3 They have a worldview that they want. That is probably 15%.
That's it. Yeah.
I think it's way less than you think. Not a lot.

Speaker 3 Then there's like, I would say the like large group, and this is probably like, you know, 70%, we'll say, is a lot of people who like, they kind of believe what they do, but like they don't really, they're not like, they don't really know.

Speaker 3 They're just like running for the next thing. You know, like I, you know, they'll be like, I built this business and I sold it.
Now I'm running for Congress. Oh, I ran for Congress.

Speaker 3 Now I'm running for Senate because that's the next thing to do. And I want to get to the next cocktail party.
Like you get a lot of them in the middle where they don't know.

Speaker 3 Or it's like, yeah, I was 26 and I really believed and I got elected to city council and now I'm just like on this career trajectory.

Speaker 3 And so then that, those are the career politicians you get frustrated with.

Speaker 3 And then the other 15% is like, they believe in something, but they won't tell you what it is.

Speaker 3 And those are the people who scare the hell out of you because they believe in something and it's like, you know, they're there to, they're going to say everything right.

Speaker 3 You get a lot of them that say everything right. And then when they vote or when they're in the room, they're not advocating for that.
And I think the best example for that to me is J.D. Vance.
J.D.

Speaker 3 Vance scares the hell out of me. There's a predictability in Trump because Trump really only believes in one thing.
It's himself. And so you can kind of predict what he's going to do.

Speaker 3 And very rarely am I shocked by him anymore. I'm just kind of like, yeah.
And he takes $400 million bribe. I'm like, yeah, okay.
I get it. I know.
I know what I'm getting with him. With J.D.

Speaker 3 Vance, that guy believes something. I just don't know what it is.
And that scares the hell out of me more.

Speaker 5 There are some, I know you're not into conspiracies, but there are some interesting theories on.

Speaker 3 Some of the Peter Thiel stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 5 The Palantir. I'm sure you've seen them.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm aware of them.

Speaker 3 Peter Thiel's another one.

Speaker 5 That's an interesting rabbit hole, yeah.

Speaker 5 I watch a lot of different creators. I'll watch Candace, Fuentes, and all these guys just to see what's the word.
I can't stand Fuentes.

Speaker 3 You don't like him? No. No.
Well, he's a complete and total white supremacist.

Speaker 5 Did you see him on Tucker yesterday?

Speaker 3 The only clip that I've seen of it is Tucker Carlson saying he was sorry he called him gay, which I was

Speaker 3 funny.

Speaker 5 They both accuse each other of being feds.

Speaker 5 That was a fun one.

Speaker 3 I mean, there's a whole network of like all of them. Like, I think, you know, there's,

Speaker 3 was it the 90s? Like, it was Kobe and Shaq. And they

Speaker 3 talked about it. Shaq has talked about this a lot because Kobe's obviously gone now because he died in the helicopter crash.
But

Speaker 3 Shaq was like, oh yeah, we were like best friends. Like we were teammates.

Speaker 3 We were in on all of it, but like all the tablets were like how they were fighting with one another and they hated one another and they were just creating content. That's all they're doing.

Speaker 3 So if I had to guess, like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentez, maybe the feud started legit, but they know they're going to come together. You know, Candace Owens is like feuding with TP USA right now.

Speaker 3 Like, Candace Owens has gone full conspiracy theory on the government killed Charlie Curtin, which is all crazy.

Speaker 3 I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, you, I mean, you're kind of a lot closer to believing it than I am, but I don't know.

Speaker 5 The government killed him? I don't know who killed him. I just don't buy the main narrative.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I don't know. I don't know.
That's why trust is important. Again, but you know, I think these guys like to sort of like create their own like celebrity feuds.

Speaker 3 You know, it's like, didn't Kim Kardashian do this with somebody like she was fighting with? I forget who it was. Was it Rey Jay or someone else?

Speaker 3 I don't follow any of it enough.

Speaker 3 She was married to Kanye.

Speaker 5 I don't like the celebrity gossip.

Speaker 3 No, I want to say it was like Kim Kardashian and Taylor Swift, but I'm not sure it was Taytay. Yeah.
I don't know. This is what people thought Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift was for a while.

Speaker 3 They thought they were faking it. They were faking it forever.
There was a contract that got leaked.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 3 No way.

Speaker 5 No, there was. It was like a fake contract.
It was a fake contract. Okay.

Speaker 3 Got leaked. I've always been a believer.
You believe? I've been a believer. You're a Swifty, huh? Yeah, I'm not a Swifty.

Speaker 3 I'll tell you a story about being a Swifty, though. I took my wife to

Speaker 3 see Taylor Swift. We were in London.

Speaker 3 We happened to to be there and she's playing at wembley which by the way if you ever want to see a concert outside the united states it's way cheaper wemble yeah i was at wembley um i think we paid like 400 bucks to see taylor swift and like the going rate in chicago is like 1600 bucks holy cross it was ridiculous we go and my wife is a huge swifty um loves she's all decked out i'm wearing a travis kelsey jersey like a jackass and um we go um the show starts i go get my wife a couple of by the way another thing about european uh concerts you can just buy mixed drinks so like i went to a bar i got her like a rub and coke or whatever it was tequila coke whatever she wanted and i'm walking back i'm holding holding two drinks, and this little British tween walks up to me and is like, and again, remember, I'm wearing a Travis Kelsey jersey, so I look like an asshole.

Speaker 3 And she's like, no, who dragged you here? And I'm like, nobody. I bought these tickets for my wife.
She's like, oh, yeah. What's your favorite Taylor Swift album?

Speaker 3 And I go, Evermore. And she goes, What's your favorite song on Evermore? And I go, Nobody, No Crime.
And I go, you know, and what's your friend's name in the song? I go, Estee. She's a friend of mine.

Speaker 3 Tuesday night at Olive Guard dinner in Class of Wine. Like, I just start singing the song on her.
And she's like, scoffs and like walks away. And I was like, what's a little prick?

Speaker 5 That is nuts.

Speaker 5 Her fans just vetted you you out.

Speaker 3 Yeah, this completely vetted me out. I looked out of place.
That's good. This is the first, I told my wife it's the first time I ever felt unsafe.

Speaker 5 That's funny, man. Well, safe flight back.
Anything you got planned the rest of this year? Where can people find you and all that?

Speaker 3 No, no. I mean, find me on Substack endlessurgency.com.
You can also find me on any major social media platform, Instagram, TikTok, etc.

Speaker 5 Awesome, man. Check out the links in the description, guys.
See you next time. Next time you see him, he might be debating someone.

Speaker 3 Thanks, everybody.

Speaker 5 I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe.
It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.