The Immigrant's Playbook for Market Dominance | Joseph Shalaby

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Speaker 3 Joseph, I know you're a busy man. I very much appreciate you taking the time to be with us here today.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 So when I was looking into your story, one of the places that I wanted to start, because it's something that I've just never personally experienced, is this idea of

Speaker 3 being an immigrant to our country and then

Speaker 3 growing inside.

Speaker 3 What is the drive?

Speaker 3 What's the motivation in just from being in America and meeting people who were born here, natives is there like it seems to me there are so many, and not that every immigrant becomes an entrepreneur, but it does seem like so many

Speaker 3 highly successful entrepreneurs are immigrants to our country. And there's a million examples.
I mean, three out of the four guys on the all-in podcast are immigrants.

Speaker 3 You know, I mean, there's just so many examples of this.

Speaker 3 Just your experience, your thoughts around

Speaker 3 why that seemingly tends to be the case that a lot of immigrants that come to this country come and are very industrious, whether it's a small business or it's growing a corporation like you have. And

Speaker 3 just, it seems there is a

Speaker 3 less entitled nature to immigrant entrepreneurs than some of our natives. Do you think that's a good, a proper classification? Or, you know, I'm just interested in your thoughts around that.

Speaker 2 Oh, I have a lot of thoughts about this because.

Speaker 2 Every third world immigrant you'll see will always outwork a native

Speaker 2 U.S. worker.
And the reason for that is because we just have a different understanding of the value of the dollar and the opportunity that we have right now here in america you know

Speaker 2 just to and i talk about this on my book but uh my dad came over as a physician from from egypt and uh came to work in america as a gas station attendant so coming from a physician background by the way doctors in egypt make peanuts But he made peanuts here as a gas station attendant and was super thankful outworked everybody.

Speaker 2 And while he was a gas station attendant,

Speaker 2 had to get

Speaker 2 his had to do another residency for four years so he can become licensed to practice in America. So he had four years of

Speaker 2 an additional residency and then he had to go into a fellowship as a specialist.

Speaker 2 So for the first eight years while we were in the U.S., like he was just in schooling effectively, making peanuts and working a couple jobs.

Speaker 2 The idea of him to work that much, you know, like that's just relentless work ethic. And that really can't be something that is so much taught.
That's a mindset.

Speaker 2 And the easiest way to get that mindset is to be poverty stricken and then be blessed with an abundance of opportunity.

Speaker 2 But, you know, then you have situations like my kids who are going to grow up in Newport Beach, California, and they're... They probably won't have that mindset.

Speaker 2 So I have to start instilling a work ethic in them at a very young age. And that comes through like the discipline of school and

Speaker 2 then sports and then homework and then it's like a 12-hour day and it's kind of the same grind emulated in the you know first world system

Speaker 3 Sorry, I'm I'm interested in how you like

Speaker 3 How do you approach your children with that because I though while native have a very similar experience I came from a very poor town in the middle of the woods in the middle of nowhere where you know and the audience is probably sick of hearing this but like we used to say you could leave the doors open in our town because the criminals lived in our town.

Speaker 3 They didn't steal in our town so like i remember at the age of 12 walking through my single traffic light town that had one gas station and you know a bunch of buildings that looked like they were completely bombed out and that's where people lived and going

Speaker 3 i gotta get out of here like i have to i can't this can't be my life but so many people stayed there right so okay so i get out of there you know have my own success and my own life and now i have children in a very similar situation right we live in a nice suburb they go to a private school and

Speaker 3 I'm struggling with them to find that hunger that I had. Like if I was on a sports team, I wanted to be the captain.

Speaker 3 If I, every business I've been a part of, I wanted to be on executive leadership or the CEO. If I was in sales, I wanted to be the top guy.

Speaker 3 Like I always wanted to be the hardest situation, the best at the thing, the top of the heap.

Speaker 3 And while they're good driven kids and successful in their own way, that do they want to dominate like you did?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 How do you get how do you get that in them? Like, have you cracked that code? Because I want to know.

Speaker 2 Man, listen, I talk to so many entrepreneurs and CEOs on my podcast about that. And, you know, I always look to Donald Trump.
I think he did a pretty good job with like Trump Jr. and Barron and

Speaker 2 all his kids and Eric Trump. They're all killing it, you know, in their own right.
So, you know, and he's had a faulty,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 marital, he had a faulty marital situation. So, I still think there's a lot of hope and a lot of kids.
So, I'm following that footstep, that, that, uh, that, that playbook for me personally.

Speaker 2 Like, I've been a big fan of him since I was like a kid, since I've read Art of the Deal.

Speaker 2 So, for me,

Speaker 2 I'm the same kind of mindset, superstar, elevated sales guy.

Speaker 2 And then I became a CEO of a big mortgage organization, but ultimately, what do we sell? We sell money.

Speaker 2 We just are very, very highly intellectual money advocates.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I think like for me, I oh, I'm obsessed with that. How do I instill grit in my kids? How do I make sure that they're grinding? How do I make sure that they're winning?

Speaker 2 And I do it where I can. They come to me, they hear me negotiating, and then I have like my son, my eldest son, wants to be like, you know,

Speaker 2 take my job one day. So he always negotiates with me on deals.
Whatever deal I can get him involved in, I have him negotiate directly with the other party. And he's a fierce negotiator.

Speaker 2 And then I have him serve at the church trying to get money for the church in terms of so what we do, we do it in the form of memorabilia and sports cards, you know.

Speaker 2 So he'll buy sports memorabilia and he'll buy sports cards, and then we'll flip them for charity at church and try to get the max dollar and raise it, the capital for the church.

Speaker 2 So I just do it in the way where it kind of emulates servitude, doing God's work, as well as learning the art of the deal.

Speaker 2 And it's very masterfully done to learn to negotiate properly with another party because he takes that mindset of the negotiation here for the sports membrane with this specific vendor, grinding them down to a certain price.

Speaker 2 And we're buying like high-end sportsman Belia, Kobe Bryant signed balls, LeBron balls, you know, Michael Jordan pieces.

Speaker 2 And then he's taking them and we're, you know, we're, that's our form of donation. And it's kind of cool because we're able to really catapult the money we invest and then the money we raise.

Speaker 2 So he also learns, you know, the margin additionally raised for the church.

Speaker 3 How do you teach negotiation?

Speaker 2 Just through practice itself, like through the actual practice of buying the item,

Speaker 2 working the vendor down, you know, and then going out and actually selling the item. But he does it at an auction, so.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Because that, to me, this ability to negotiate is a life life skill that I think many are missing, but to me feels paramount to success in anything.
Success in a relationship with a spouse,

Speaker 3 a relationship with your kids, your parents, your friends, your community, your peers in your work, your employees, who you're doing business with.

Speaker 3 Like, you are constantly negotiated in almost every interaction that you have all day, yet.

Speaker 3 It's something so few people have even spent more than a few minutes considering beyond the fact that they have to do it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you think about it like you're going to negotiate your purchase of your home. You're going to negotiate your spouse to convince her to be with you for the lifetime.

Speaker 2 You're going to negotiate, you know,

Speaker 2 whatever situation you're in

Speaker 2 requires negotiation. So the art of a, and it's really the art of the deal.
The art of the deal, the first book Trump wrote is about mastering negotiation.

Speaker 2 And again, thank God we have a master negotiator in,

Speaker 2 you know, fighting for us because think about all the situations where we need an extreme negotiating

Speaker 2 strong,

Speaker 2 an extreme negotiator, like where he's going into Gaza and it's like a hostage situation or whatever it is, you know, like he's literally negotiating insane deals.

Speaker 2 So to me, the magnitude and the skill of negotiation is much greater.

Speaker 2 than just, oh, being the top loan originator or the top realtor or, you know, that is a true skill that is divinely appointed for us to, you know.

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Speaker 2 Make situations better in life for us. So it's something that's just beyond sports memorabilia or beyond

Speaker 2 what I do, which is,

Speaker 2 you know, I originate mortgages.

Speaker 2 That was the original job I had. Now I originate people to come to the organization.

Speaker 2 So I recruit, I do most of the business development. And, you know, I just try to build the brand of of the company, build my personal brand.
And all of that requires negotiating, right?

Speaker 2 That's convincing. I'm able to convince people to do business with their company and to follow me or to whatever it is.

Speaker 2 You know, my thing is teaching my kids that at an early age and making sure they're regimented with schooling, you know, and that comes through

Speaker 2 sports. You know, they go to school and then they're in like they're in football, they're in basketball, they're in baseball, and they're in jiu-jitsu,

Speaker 3 you know, the martial arts.

Speaker 2 So I just try to fill their calendar where they're basically booked

Speaker 2 I don't get them as much free time as I want

Speaker 2 some people would argue you know hey they need more free time but

Speaker 2 listen I grind 12 hours a day and I see them grinding 12 hours a day and they just got to keep that regimen their whole life unfortunately from schooling to

Speaker 2 to sports to being entrepreneurs. That's just the regimen you got to be in.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, we talk about all the time.
You got to earn your video games, right? I get that. That's your release.
Completely get it. We all have it.

Speaker 3 Each generation has the things that they do, and video games tend to be this generation. I have two boys.

Speaker 2 They are like, I hate video games. I mean, Roblox and me are probably enemies, although, you know, it's probably a great company to invest in.

Speaker 3 Seriously. Yeah, the business model is insane.

Speaker 3 But, you know,

Speaker 3 I think this idea of

Speaker 3 I think this idea of instilling, like, I don't think enough parents today,

Speaker 3 I think we outsource too much of the development of our children today, right?

Speaker 3 We get so caught in our life, our world, the sale we didn't make, the position we didn't get, or whatever stuff is frustrating or causing us anxiety.

Speaker 3 And we become so contained in ourselves that then we come home and we're not even present with literally the reason that we're on earth, the perpetuation of our genes and

Speaker 3 our bloodline.

Speaker 3 We're not even investing in that.

Speaker 3 We're outsourcing it to, you know, whatever they're scrolling through on YouTube shorts or, you know, whatever's coming through the video game, or if they're, you know, if your kids have Snapchat or whatever, Snapchatting each other, or, or the schools.

Speaker 3 I mean, geez, I mean, think about what happens in most public schools. I mean, I'm in New York State.

Speaker 3 I'm completely, I can't even, I couldn't, I would work 10 jobs if I had to to keep my kids out of public school because I just, I want to know what they're being taught.

Speaker 3 They go to a private Catholic school. And

Speaker 3 it just,

Speaker 3 bewilders me how we can be so cavalier with the development of our children with some of these core ideas that you've talked about.

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, well, I mean, California and New York, we have extreme educational curriculum that is basically shoved down our kids' throat.

Speaker 2 So I'm with you. Like, I would be, I would give up everything to make sure my kids go to a Catholic or Christian school, Catholic, ideally.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that's because, number one, faith is important anyway. So, instilling a regimented faith routine.
And above all,

Speaker 2 beyond being committed to work, the most thing they got to be committed to is their faith. Number one, first and foremost, because God always tells you to be diligent with your work,

Speaker 2 to make sure that you always prosper with your work. I mean, those are biblical traits.

Speaker 2 The most faithful people are always the, you know, the most accomplished people.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm Egyptian, I'm Coptic Orthodox, and we came to America because of religious persecution.

Speaker 2 So the Coptic Christians are the most persecuted Christians. They're known as the martyrs of Christianity.
Thousands and thousands, tens and tens of thousands of martyrs.

Speaker 2 Martyrdom is becoming more popular right now, and you see the impact that martyrdom has.

Speaker 2 When you stand up for Christ, because you see what happened with Charlie Kirk. That was one example of martyrdom that we've seen in our lifetime.
So, you know, you see a real,

Speaker 2 you know, that was true martyrdom. That's the impact that martyrdom has.
How many people came back to Christ because of what happened to Charlie Kirk?

Speaker 2 So you will see a resurgence of that now in the next decade. And you'll see how many more people come back to Christ.
And that was spiraled out of like the first guy that did it.

Speaker 2 But he inspired countless others to follow in that footstep. And with the countless others he inspired, he also inspired, you know, countless other enemies to attack him.

Speaker 2 So there's going to be a lot more enemies. There's going to be a lot more where that came from because that's just how good and evil work.

Speaker 2 So we got a lot of good coming, a lot of evil coming to stop the good. But, you know, all those who are faithful to Christ are, you know, are going to be the ones winning here.

Speaker 2 And, you know, unfortunately, our states, New York and California,

Speaker 2 our governing bodies just don't really see eye to eye on that.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm hoping with what's happened with Mumdami in New York that he brings back God to some extent, even though it's going to be more secular, but it's still going to be God.

Speaker 2 I'm hoping that that happens in New York because the stuff that's happening in New York is not tolerated by the governor.

Speaker 2 It's not going to, I mean, by the new mayor elect. It's not.
It's not, you know, he's a devout Muslim dude. That stuff is not cool, you know, with him.

Speaker 2 So maybe there's going to be some good changes coming. Him and Trump should work tightly together on all that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I thought it was very interesting, you know, going back to Trump and the art of the deal.

Speaker 3 I thought it was very interesting when he had Mondami at the White House and they're standing next to each other. And you see,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 to have the composure that Trump has, to sit at that desk and have someone standing next to you who has basically built their entire uh persona and certainly their campaign and and

Speaker 3 on on basically just being you know tds right i mean it's basically just standing up there going you know trump bad vote for me and and to have that guy standing next to you and be able to say we disagree on a lot but there's a lot that we do agree on and i'm i promise this little narrative has a has a question in here um When you read the art of the deal, and I think so many people who are anti-Trump, I think there's the kind of complete wackos who just bought postmodern liberalism, hookline, and sinker, and just completely are living in a different reality.

Speaker 3 But the individuals who just don't like him, I think, because he might say a bad word or they don't understand why he does the things, they haven't read that book.

Speaker 3 When you read that book and you understand the second and third order thinking that he uses to get to the outcome that he wants or even to get to an outcome, So many,

Speaker 3 and I think some of this is we just simply believe our politicians are intelligent because they're in that position and they're not.

Speaker 3 Like he is willing to get to an outcome where, and sometimes that's messy.

Speaker 3 And I think there's like this, this complete, again, this goes back to the misunderstanding of negotiation of just when you're negotiating, you don't always get every single thing that you want.

Speaker 3 You have to be able to come to the middle and you have to know what to give where to get what you ultimately want.

Speaker 3 And like we've gone to this place where it's like, you either love Trump or you hate him. You're either a capitalist or a socialist.

Speaker 3 You're either, you know, include everybody DEI or you're a racist, homophobic bigot. Like you, there's like the nuance of our life has been lost.

Speaker 3 You know, I know in your industry, you're probably recruiting a lot of young people or in Gen Z or maybe younger millennials. Like, how do you start to approach?

Speaker 3 One, have you seen, has that mentality been what you've seen in your younger sales force? And two, when they come in, how do we start to get

Speaker 3 people off that shelf to start to understand that there's all this gray, messy nuance in the middle, which is actually where life happens?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, right now we are in like a very polarizing political environment, right? It's pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 But I would say most of the people that we come across, because I'm recruiting on the front lines are very level-headed on young entrepreneurs. Level-headed, young entrepreneurs will always align with

Speaker 2 our current president's views on pretty much everything. Just because they're level-headed, they're not thinking extreme.
They're not like...

Speaker 2 What ultra-leftist liberal out of college is starting a business or trying to make millions of dollars that does not align with their values? They're not trying to make money.

Speaker 2 They're trying to milk the game.

Speaker 2 That's the play there for most ultra-leftists that I've seen.

Speaker 2 They're not like superstar entrepreneurs. There's no

Speaker 2 big companies founded by extreme leftists. Now, there's nothing.
I'm not,

Speaker 2 you know, the LGBTQ community, very prosperous community, many, many prosperous people. We're talking about the ultra-leftist,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 the ones that are confused about or

Speaker 2 don't believe in a sex or whatever it is, you know that stuff I I mean God bless all people his people, but they tend not to be entrepreneurs

Speaker 2 Yeah

Speaker 2 So I don't see a lot of those people coming through

Speaker 2 Here and you know, we're pretty

Speaker 2 our number one pillar is servitude. So it's a very God-based company here.
So we try to emulate

Speaker 2 Good deeds and God's works through whatever we do and

Speaker 2 you know the mantra is you don't chase money, you chase doing God's work first, and the money always follows. And that's, you know, a guarantee I make

Speaker 2 because money always follows God's work. You know, you always do his work first, he does your work.
That's just the way life was designed.

Speaker 2 And anyone who's chasing, like, so, because we have the opportunity here to make a massive commission per transaction. We're doing 1,500 transactions.

Speaker 2 You can make two points on a deal, or you can make four or five points on a deal. So you can, you really have that control to not do God's work.

Speaker 2 So, that's why, you know, people here we serve the American dream. I mean, we make home ownership happen, we make difficult situations

Speaker 2 more feasible, and we help people in their life because we're helping them acquire the number one asset they're ever going to acquire, and we'll help them through roadblocks that have hindered them from accomplishing the American dream.

Speaker 2 So, you know, we really are good stewards here and try to emulate

Speaker 2 a life of servitude through the work that we offer through our organization.

Speaker 3 So, I can only assume that the fact that type of level-headed entrepreneur-minded individual is coming to your organization has to do with the brand and the message that you put out in the world because your brand is ultimately a filtering mechanism for the clients you get, the employees you get, the partnerships that you get, et cetera.

Speaker 3 What do you think it is about your brand, your message that has resonated resonated with so many people?

Speaker 3 I mean, 1.5 million plus followers on Instagram, incredibly successful podcasts, incredibly successful business that has people coming to you to be part of it.

Speaker 3 Like there is something about your message and your brand that is resonating. What do you think those pieces are?

Speaker 2 It's simple. I just said it.
You know, we do God's work first, period.

Speaker 2 As long as you're serving, you're doing God's work, you're putting the people first, you're putting God first,

Speaker 2 and the money follows, success follows. My mentor always, you know, said to me, like, you, you do the work first, success follows.
Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 You know, and I spun that to align more with our company values. You know, you do God's work first, the money always follows.
So,

Speaker 2 you know, I know it's not the most politically correct or aligned

Speaker 2 message. We're not publicly traded yet, so

Speaker 2 I could toot that as long as we're privately held.

Speaker 2 And hopefully, we'll stay privately held just because I love what we do so much. So we have no intention.
We've been self-funded. Now we have over a couple thousand people here.

Speaker 2 We just got a new campus

Speaker 2 and we have plans to own a significant portion of national

Speaker 2 mortgage market share in the next 12 months. So our goal is to hit a billion a month in the first couple quarters.

Speaker 2 And I feel like we're on track for that, especially with all the different changes happening in the real estate environment right now. We should see some significant

Speaker 2 affordability measures by the White House, housing affordability measures by the White House take place in 2026.

Speaker 2 I know that's a big agenda right now, and it's definitely being attacked in so many different ways

Speaker 2 as we enter 2026. So I'm excited to see what's going to happen for

Speaker 2 the opportunity for more, millions more Americans to purchase a property in 2026.

Speaker 3 Speaking specifically about real estate, you know, so much of what I've heard is around supply. There's not enough supply.
We need more houses. We need more houses.

Speaker 3 Is it like, what are the major aspects that have slowed the housing market?

Speaker 3 And, you know, beyond just say like interest rates, et cetera, that could be coming down in 2026, what are some of the other factors that you see that could take the real estate market and start to get it back on track and start getting people back into homes?

Speaker 2 I actually just had this discussion with Senator Choi on my podcast just a couple couple days ago.

Speaker 2 And the biggest thing that was discussed on my podcast with Senator Choi was the fact of deregulation for builders.

Speaker 2 So that's going to be a big thing in 2026 is like deregulating it so builders can build faster. Right now there's a ton of regulation that totally eats all their profit margins right now.

Speaker 2 And it's a pain in the butt to build a house right now for a builder. It's just difficult.
So they got to go through a ton of red tape.

Speaker 2 Red tape that doesn't even mean anything to the bottom line, like stuff that just holds up a project for weeks on end for no freaking reason, right?

Speaker 2 So, a lot of that's going to be looked at heavily because they need to pump out houses quick. If they pump out houses quick, then economies of scale will bring housing costs

Speaker 2 down.

Speaker 2 And a lot of things are, so that's on the construction side.

Speaker 2 That's,

Speaker 2 I think, very, very feasible to accomplish pretty, pretty quickly.

Speaker 2 The other thing that's gonna, that's trickier, but it's gonna very, very much help the housing environment is something called portable mortgages, which is genius idea that Trump is pushing for.

Speaker 2 And portable mortgages are gonna allow you to take your low interest rate to your next property. So, a lot of people are just basically stuck in their mortgage right now because they got a 2% rate.

Speaker 2 They're like, I'm never leaving. Well, obviously, you'd never leave when your savings account is paying 5%

Speaker 2 and you have a 2% rate, the delta is 3%. That means you are literally making money on the money you borrowed.
You're making 3% on the money you borrowed.

Speaker 2 So it's not free money,

Speaker 2 money that they're making profits on, right? So every homeowner who has a 3% or 2% interest rate and their savings account is paying them 5% is making that delta.

Speaker 2 So now all these people are like, I'm never selling with this rate are going to be like, okay, if I could just port that mortgage to my new house, I'll move.

Speaker 2 Obviously, they got to factor in the new tax expense, but that will free up that inventory of $11 trillion of mortgages that are basically rate locked in right now.

Speaker 2 So that's going to be tremendously helpful for housing as well, if that can materialize in some way. And the third thing that's on the docket that's going to help housing in 2026,

Speaker 2 which is going to a little bit of help, not tremendous help, but it's still, you know, enough help is

Speaker 2 50-year mortgages are coming down the pipe. So if we get 50-year mortgages, you'll see a 10-15% payment reduction.
So it's effectively like interest-only, just a little bit of principal.

Speaker 2 But it's going to be at least something to help people subsidize a little bit.

Speaker 2 And, you know, the Fed said yesterday they're going to be buying mortgage-backed securities. So

Speaker 2 I think it was like, I don't know, $20 billion of mortgage-backed securities.

Speaker 2 So that'll bring rates down. That's the fourth thing.

Speaker 2 Outside of the Fed rate cuts, it's the mortgage-backed securities that they buy that actually bring the rates down, not the rate cuts.

Speaker 3 Could you talk me through the 50-year mortgage a little bit? Because I've heard people have positive spins on this, and I've also heard a lot of negativity around the 50-year mortgage. Like,

Speaker 3 what's the pro and con to this?

Speaker 2 It doesn't move the needle on a payment much. It just doesn't.

Speaker 2 I said 10%.

Speaker 2 You know, that's not much.

Speaker 2 So it's just another way for

Speaker 2 to qualify more buyers

Speaker 2 with a tiny bit of a payment. I mean, 30-year and 50-year, it's not much of a difference.
It's literally 10-15%. It's a tiny difference.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Then, why do you think he's pushing that so hard? Just to get more people in?

Speaker 3 Just this is another mechanism, and it's ultimately going to be a collection of different mechanisms that get us there, and this is just one of them?

Speaker 3 Or do you think the administration truly believes this is a game-changing piece of

Speaker 3 no, no?

Speaker 2 They just think it's one, the administration thinks it's just one of many ways to attack the issue. You are not going to make a dent in the current environment without massive changes.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, we are really

Speaker 2 upside down with affordability for housing right now. It's like a joke.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Think about here in New York or in California where the housing average price is over a million and a half or something. I don't know.
In California, it's like a million plus.

Speaker 2 In New York, I'm sure it's the same. A million plus.

Speaker 2 A million plus for a mortgage. Okay.
At the current rate environment, that's $7,000,

Speaker 2 $7,000 payment plus your $2,000 tax bill. You're at $9,000.
You need to be making $20,000 a month to buy a freaking mediocre house.

Speaker 2 You're talking about a three-bedroom, two-bath bungalow in upstate New York. Nothing super fancy.
Who makes $20, $30,000 a month?

Speaker 3 Your local, you know,

Speaker 2 anesthesiologist

Speaker 2 is buying a little rink-a-dink ranch, you know?

Speaker 2 That's who's buying. That doesn't make any sense.
When our parents' generation, you know,

Speaker 2 like a coal worker was buying a house, you know, or whatever, right? So now you got, it's just weird how it's done.

Speaker 2 Jobs don't pay enough to buy houses. Everybody's looking for that side hustle to double their income.

Speaker 3 It's crazy. I mean, I know, I know, I have a friend who's a very successful, he's a very successful landscaping business.
He's got multiple, multiple units,

Speaker 3 does very well for himself. And he called me yesterday, not yesterday, a week ago, sorry, and asked me about

Speaker 3 YouTube faceless videos as a side hustle. And it was like, like I had like this moment of like, what the, like, it was just so out of left field.

Speaker 3 But he's like, he's like, dude, you know, I was like, dude, I thought you were doing great. He's like, oh, no, we're doing great.

Speaker 3 He's like, but he's like, you know, with all the increased, you know, increased expense here and, you know, he wants this and he's got kids that are getting close to college age.

Speaker 3 And he's like, you know, I'm looking at my bills, man.

Speaker 3 And like, he's like, I can't scale my landscaping business fast enough and, and, you know, to, to make enough, uh, more because that means I, you know, paying another crew of guys and I got to buy more trucks and I got to buy another sales guy, you know, bring another sales guy in.

Speaker 3 He's like, I I need a side hustle.

Speaker 6 He's like, and I was watching some whatever YouTube Facebook and it's like, join us for Cycle to Zero, a legacy event from AIDS Life Cycle benefiting San Francisco AIDS Foundation.

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Speaker 3 The fact that that thought was even in his head, you know, it wasn't the faceless YouTube video thing, but like the fact that he's would go to something like that to say, I need this side, this easy passive side hustle thing to make an extra five or ten grand a month.

Speaker 3 I'm like, That's crazy.

Speaker 3 Like something is wrong when that guy who's been very successful, hardworking, 20 years building his business, is thinking about starting a faceless YouTube video channel or YouTube channel in order to make an extra couple grand to like get ahead.

Speaker 3 Like that's crazy to me.

Speaker 2 You know, that's the world we're in right now. People need several hustles to survive.
I mean, that's just the reality. They need several hustles.

Speaker 2 There is no one size fits all for your income anymore.

Speaker 2 I'm a serial entrepreneur, so I understand the concept of kind of several income streams, but now that's just becoming a requirement to survival.

Speaker 3 yeah

Speaker 2 everything's so expensive now you know everything's so expensive

Speaker 3 the thing that the thing that hit me in the face was about a year and a half ago uh i'm i got divorced from my wife three years ago

Speaker 3 kind of

Speaker 3 single dad two kids kind of uh doing my thing and

Speaker 3 you know i got two boys that are with me 50 of the time sometimes a little more and I'm looking at my grocery bill and I'm going, how does a single guy who has two boys halftime

Speaker 3 like how is my grocery bill like 200 a week like how is this even possible we don't even buy that much that's it 200 bucks a week i mean man that's nothing yeah but you're obviously not going to whole foods yeah yeah that's well that's true but um but you know it's like i was just looking at it going like I'm not a big, you know, I don't make myself a bunch of fancy meals.

Speaker 3 You know, I'm pretty easy as far as that goes, although I love food or whatever, but like, you know, just in general.

Speaker 3 And it just blew me away that I was like, this,

Speaker 3 even a few years before that, it was like a hundred bucks, 120 bucks for the same amount of food.

Speaker 3 And I'm going, how do these families, like, how do we expect these families who are in a 6% mortgage because they went, you know, a year ago or something and got their home or two years ago and they got two kids and two cars and both parents are working and they're, they're trying to get their kids on the travel soccer team and they want them to go to, you know, get some extra help in math and pay for a tutor and whatever.

Speaker 3 And now, like, how does that family ever actually get ahead beyond the trickle that they may put away in their 401k or something that they hope, you know, pays for their bills?

Speaker 3 Like, I just, I don't understand. I mean, they can't get ahead.

Speaker 2 They're robbing Peter to pay Paul every week, you know?

Speaker 2 My dad would have been so successful if he started his own practice. Like, he's still 76 years old, retired, took his retirement, went back to work, you know,

Speaker 2 because he can't figure out how to just get ahead. And unfortunately, for wage earners, especially now, they're not going to be able to get ahead.
Wage earners cannot get ahead.

Speaker 2 They have to figure out some other way

Speaker 2 to get ahead, whether it's drop shipping, whether it's, I don't know, YouTube faceless reels, whether it's closing mortgage deals on the side or getting a real estate license or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 They have an additional revenue stream to get ahead. That's just how life is.

Speaker 2 I'm still, and you are, but we're both still trying to figure out how to get ahead.

Speaker 2 You know, we're podcasting, we're opening up new doors, we're talking to people that are moving and shaking in society and trying to figure out the next move

Speaker 2 because it's survival the fittest right now. It really is.
And that's what we're preparing our boys for, right? So we're preparing our kids for.

Speaker 3 As a leader,

Speaker 3 how do you recommend handling side hustle culture?

Speaker 3 I've always been of the opinion that the companies that I've led or run myself or even my own company,

Speaker 3 I have outcomes that you've committed to as being an employee of my company. And as long as those outcomes are hit, right, I'm happy with you.

Speaker 3 What you do outside of those outcomes, you know, the outcomes that I need you to get,

Speaker 3 it's never bothered me, right? As long as you stay focused and you're getting your outcomes done for my business, God bless you. You want to go have a side hustle?

Speaker 3 You want to go build another business? Awesome. But so many of my peers in my home industry is the property, casualty, insurance industry.

Speaker 3 So, so many of my peers in that space,

Speaker 3 they are like, I see the message boards, I hear the comments when I'm doing keynotes or I'm talking to somebody

Speaker 3 about this idea of like, I can't keep my people focused. I know he's working on this other thing during his lunch or this.

Speaker 3 And it's like a major point of friction for a lot of leaders that their employees have these side hustles. So,

Speaker 3 do you have that happening in your business? How do you address it? And whether you do or you don't,

Speaker 3 how do leaders kind of wrap their head around this idea?

Speaker 3 Because you don't want your people to be under constant anxiety from capital if you can't provide enough to them in your business or the job that they're doing.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the deal.

Speaker 2 My business, because I'm a leader of a sales organization where people, I'm in the business of making businesses.

Speaker 2 So e-mortgage capital is an organization that makes other mortgage companies so when i'm talking to my leaders i'm telling them go all in on building this business because the opportunity under the e-mortgage capital ecosystem is endless you have the ability to make tens of millions of dollars you have the ability to have hundreds of employees under the e-mortgage capital ecosystem we're like a farmer's insurance right

Speaker 2 You run a farmer. Some farmers branches are much more successful than other farmers branches.

Speaker 2 So if you run your mortgage company under e-mortgage capital with all the resources that we provide to you, whether it's licensing, technology, marketing, lead gen, data solutions, infrastructure support, or training, our coaching, our onboarding, or whatever it is that we're doing for you, you have a billion-dollar ecosystem that you pay $0

Speaker 2 for to scale your company. So just leverage and learn and educate yourself and ask questions as much as humanly possible.
to grow your mortgage company, to grow your brand.

Speaker 2 So you can dominate within the EMC ecosystem.

Speaker 2 we have mortgage we have real estate we have so many opportunities for you to scale and grow with our platform that i really just push people towards our side hustle culture because our side hustle culture if you build within the emc ecosystem is infinite your side hustle culture allows you You have your own production.

Speaker 2 I still produce deals. You have recruits.
You could still recruit. Everybody could do what I do, which is bring in other people and have like revenue streams under us.

Speaker 2 Or you have the opportunity to bring in other new guys or other guys and buy leads for them and split commissions.

Speaker 2 So, if you want to grow under one of the verticals, grow under one of those segments underneath our ecosystem and always build your personal brand. Podcast, do your social media content.

Speaker 2 Like, there's so much to do that you can stay laser-focused on just mortgages.

Speaker 3 Because of the infinite upside. And

Speaker 3 when you're referencing wage earners, you're talking about I work for the state and I make $64,000 and I really have no, regardless of how much effort I put in this quarter, I'm still making $64,000 and there's nothing I can do about it.

Speaker 2 Pretty much.

Speaker 2 You're basically capped.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I have a friend, you know, works for the,

Speaker 2 I think he's an well, he's a probation officer now and he has no upside. So I introduced him to an investment opportunity where he has, he can basically like earn a full-on other income.

Speaker 2 But if he sits in the opportunity, it will compound. If he extracts it every month, it'll just add a full-on like side job for him.
And he just opts to take the monthly income because

Speaker 2 he has no other monthly income. But I'm like, dude, if you just sat on that opportunity for a year, it would be like 10x that a monthly income, but he can't.
You know, he needs the month, the revenue.

Speaker 3 Do you think that, and maybe not necessarily his specific case, but I think what you just described is a very, is thinking maybe scarcity mindset or thinking very short-term versus long-term. Yeah.

Speaker 3 How do you get someone out of, because I know a lot of, I have a lot of friends who are very smart, talented at the things they do, but they tend to operate from this place of scarcity or very short-term thinking, like, I got to get through this month or I got to get through this week, whatever.

Speaker 3 But I think we both know, like, while we always have to be kind of focused on what's happening today, part of our brain, or at least we have to cordon off time to consider, think about, and plan much longer term.

Speaker 3 Because as you said, that's where compound results come from. And you know, uh, what was it? Warren Buffett said, uh, the greatest force in nature is compound interest.

Speaker 3 Um, you know, how do you crack someone out of that mentality, or how do you open them up to the to a world of abundance if they if they are operating or maybe they were taught by their parents or wherever they were raised to kind of think more small and scarce?

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 a scarcity mentality is something you

Speaker 2 a lot of people suffer with, right?

Speaker 2 And how do you make people have an abundance mindset? By letting them know that the gifts of God are much greater than what you and I can comprehend. So it really comes through faith.

Speaker 2 Like, if you want an abundance mindset, be faithful because God gives you more than you've ever wanted. So if you hold on to this little thing,

Speaker 2 you know, you start to covet, right? And like, if you covet, you're just not going to be blessed. So it's a really simple concept.
Don't covet.

Speaker 2 Give everything freely and God will give you freely. Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 a lot of people, like, they get their first deal. That's what you hear about a lot of people in my business.
They get their first deal. And guess what?

Speaker 2 They're gone for like two months, blowing the commission because they're like, I just made $10,000 on one deal. And then they're gone.
Like, take that $10,000, pretend you didn't make it.

Speaker 2 and hit the ground running twice as hard next month and it'll compound just like that but

Speaker 2 i mean that that is something that comes with wisdom. That's something that comes like we all, if you're young and you're 21 and you're making a ton of money, sadly, you will fall to that mindset.

Speaker 2 It's just

Speaker 2 a you know, a sad reality

Speaker 2 that people live in right now

Speaker 2 because they're not living a life that's based on faith. They're living a life that's based on

Speaker 2 human desire, selfishness, etc.

Speaker 3 Why did you start investing so heavily in your personal brand? Like what we see on your Instagram channel, your podcast. Like, what was the motivation to put all this effort into building that brand?

Speaker 2 You know, I was presented with an opportunity to distinguish myself from my competitors. A couple years back, I started, so I started the podcast, I started

Speaker 2 marketing, I started lead generating, I started the social media. I started really hitting social media so hard in 2024.

Speaker 2 In January 2024, I launched my podcast and I launched my social media strategy. And really at the time, it was kind of a

Speaker 2 like a selfish reason. It was because of basketball.
The number one social media influencer at the time, I made him an offer to work with e-mortgage capital. He turned me down.

Speaker 2 He went to my competitor. And I was just really sad about about him going, not because of anything other than he was our number one basketball player on our team.
And that just

Speaker 2 mentally wrecked me. So I said, you know what? I can't beat him in basketball, but I'm going to beat him on social media.
So I just went after it as my own personal goal.

Speaker 2 And then I beat him on social media, but then I'm like...

Speaker 2 The world of AI started to materialize. And I'm like, man,

Speaker 2 in this world of AI, like social media influencers are more important than others because now they have the attention of the,

Speaker 2 you know, ChatGPT and the AI algorithm. And every word we're saying right now, believe it or not, every word, and understand this, it's very important for your audience to know.

Speaker 2 Every word that you say online is now indexed on AI.

Speaker 2 So ChatGPT will be able to reference this specific podcast on this specific day, you know, that I said this and this about this political subject that we, you know, one of the subjects we talked about earlier, how I feel about Trump or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 Like, it's all indexed there. So this started to materialize while I was in the midst, like 2025.
I'm like, man, personal branding is becoming more important than ever.

Speaker 2 You know, I need to go really heavy into it. So I really started to fight with how I'm going to

Speaker 2 position my brand because I was gaining a massive audience through Mr. Beast style content, like

Speaker 2 giveaway, comedy. you know this other stuff just kind of being eccentric and i'm like that's you know i'm i'm the ceo of a financial institution.
Like, then my board is like, you can't do that.

Speaker 2 You need to, like, position yourself like Jamie Dimon. But I'm like, I'm not that boring, you know? Like, I need to just be a little bit more out there, a little more relatable.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to be like, I'm not a Fortune 500 CEO, or if that's a Fortune 10 CEO. I'm not doing super boring content.
I'm going to stay real

Speaker 2 because at the end of the day, my goal is simple. I want to recruit talent.

Speaker 3 So.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.

Speaker 3 One of the things that I've been preaching for years inside the insurance industry, in particular, has been the importance of agency owners or leaders in the space to step out and

Speaker 3 start to own that narrative. Because

Speaker 3 one of the things that you will hear in every association, conference, meeting that happens is it's so hard to find good talent.

Speaker 3 And I know you don't know too much about my backstory, but I started my own national digital commercial insurance agency, grew it, scaled it, sold it, exited it in just under five years.

Speaker 3 And at no point did we ever have problems hiring. And we actually had a waiting list for people to come in and be producers for that business.
And it was simply because

Speaker 3 all I did every day, I shouldn't say all I did, but every day I was out front on LinkedIn or Instagram or in a newsletter or a podcast.

Speaker 3 talking about what I believed about the business and what I believed in general and what my value structure was, et cetera. So people were attracted to us.

Speaker 3 partnerships were attracted to us, clients were attracted to us.

Speaker 3 And to me, this seems so incredibly obvious, yet I see, I continue to see a tremendous amount of hesitation, particularly from leaders in actually going out and presenting themselves.

Speaker 3 Now, they'll do it in a very corporate vanilla, like the lawyers dotted I's and crossed T's way, but that like what their personality is, what they actually like to do, who they really are, if you were to go golfing with them or whatever hobby you like to do, you rarely see that.

Speaker 3 Yet, that has shown over and over again, yourself being case in point, when you allow your personality to come through, that is when people actually form that true bond with you. Yes.

Speaker 3 What is the message, or how would you convey to anyone listening who is struggling with this decision to go out the importance of what you just said? Like,

Speaker 3 how do you crack that code?

Speaker 2 For every entrepreneur listening right now, if you do not build your personal brand in the next 12 to 24 months, you face complete extinction in your space.

Speaker 2 And the reason for that isn't because anything we discuss on the show, it's because of something very simple. Everybody now goes to AI to make their decisions for them.

Speaker 2 If you go to ChatGPT and you ask, should I go with Joe or should I go with Chris? And ChatGPT can't pull up anything on Joe, guess what? They're going with Chris.

Speaker 2 AI is now deciding for people. You now have to feed the algorithm, the AI algorithm, what the narrative is so that people can logically decide or

Speaker 2 reasonably decide or whatever the reasoning model is. AI is going to go through thousands of variables and deduct with what it can aggregate on all the web why to work with you.

Speaker 2 So make your voice loud, make it louder than your competitor so you can beat your competitor, period. Because they're going to do it if you don't.

Speaker 3 Yeah, the other thing about AI too that I think people miss is where with the Google's 10 blue links,

Speaker 3 even though most people would the prominent number of people would choose from the first three,

Speaker 3 you still people would still scan them all, right? Today with AI, it's returning the answer that it thinks is it's getting giving one solution.

Speaker 3 So it's not even like you have a chance if you're three, four, five on a list on a Google listing, on a Google SEO listing.

Speaker 3 But you know, when you search for, hey, what, what's the best commercial insurance agent or where should I get my mortgage from, Right.

Speaker 3 It's giving you the answer that it thinks is the best for you and it's giving you one. And if you're the business and you don't show up, you just simply aren't there.

Speaker 3 Like you said, it's not the days of

Speaker 3 options seem to be going away. It seems to be just give me the answer so I don't have to think about it and I can move on.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, and

Speaker 2 people want that instant gratification. That's what AI is delivering.
And it's going to be able to make a reasonable decision based on thousands

Speaker 2 of sources.

Speaker 2 You know, now it's going to scour the entire web. And that's why I'm on every platform.
I'm on Reddit. I'm on Facebook.
I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on YouTube.
I'm on Snapchat. I'm on TikTok.
I'm on

Speaker 2 Medium. I'm on Substack.
I'm on, I mean, you name it. Like I got stuff everywhere on every platform that exists.
So my,

Speaker 2 when you're thinking about Joseph Shaleby, the reasoning model, like, like it has thousands of hours of data. It's always going to pick me because I'm just the most well-known in my space.

Speaker 3 Where do you see the biggest opportunity in those social platforms or in distribution in general? Online distribution? Where do you see that?

Speaker 2 One thing I definitely see that's going to be very, very hot very soon, because it was, you know, that's gaining a lot of market share is Snapchat.

Speaker 2 You know, people are like not even considering Snapchat, but in so many verticals, like insurance or mortgage like nobody's dominating Snapchat for mortgage right now nobody's dominating Snapchat for insurance so there's like opportunities in these emerging social platforms

Speaker 2 but I don't know what's coming out that's gonna be better soon but it seems like the powerhouses like you know obviously meta

Speaker 2 are gonna dominate under them for a while and the ones that are like the outliers like Snapchat will start to gain more market share are continuing to gain tons of market share Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, just look at the people who built entire careers on TikTok. When, you know, that's one of the most recent that has gone very, very big.

Speaker 3 And, you know, entire careers have been generated just off of being an early adopter and building a community and growing on that platform. I give a ton of credence to

Speaker 3 taking these platforms and seeing if your message can resonate early. And the earlier, the better.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 3 yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 So, so yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 we right now are in a really critical phase right now where all these platforms are fighting for market share. We got X, we got threads, all these other, you know, we had, you know,

Speaker 2 new ones coming out. What was it called? The Blue Sky came out and tried to compete with X to be just in case the Democrats won.
So

Speaker 2 I set up a profile there even just you know

Speaker 2 during the campaign.

Speaker 2 I'm like, well, if this went, if they went somehow, I don't know if it's even possible, but thank God things worked out the way they did.

Speaker 2 But, you know, just in case I was ready to start posting on this other platform,

Speaker 2 even Trump's true social army, there's so many, you know, fighting for our attention. So if they're all fighting for our attention, I just try to pour it into all of them.

Speaker 3 Twitch. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 That makes a lot of sense. My last question for you kind of takes in, you know, you obviously are very knowledgeable, not just about your business.

Speaker 3 You obviously spend time thinking about what's going on from a political standpoint, economic marketplace, societally, et cetera. And you can see it in your commentary on your Instagram.

Speaker 3 I get pushed back because I'm very similar, very similar, ferocious consumer. I have wide ranges of interests.
Obviously, I have the things that I do for work.

Speaker 3 And I talk about an interview for this show, people from a lot of different walks of life and a lot of different places

Speaker 3 in either business or in what they do. And one of the pieces of pushback that I get is

Speaker 3 I waste brain cycles thinking about things that I can't control, right? Like the economy or what's going on politically or international, whatever.

Speaker 3 But my viewpoint has always been

Speaker 3 understanding the macro of our world is just as important as understanding the micro of our world.

Speaker 3 And I think it allows me to make better decisions in my day-to-day, smaller life when I understand what's going on in the broader world in general. But I think a lot of people get lost in that.

Speaker 3 One, do you agree that it is important to have a broader understanding and to spend that time? Or do you see,

Speaker 3 I don't want to call it being distracted because obviously I find value in it, but for those who see spending time thinking about these things as a distraction, do you think that that might be a more valid point?

Speaker 2 I mean, the macro is imperative, especially when you're, because it allows you to make micro decisions, you know, because you could see what's happening at a macro level.

Speaker 2 I'm always looking at the macro, especially in our industry, the mortgage industry, where it's very much dictated by the macro impacts, right?

Speaker 2 When the Fed cuts rates or when there's an issue with something geopolitically or when there's a war, whatever it is, all those macros affect the micro.

Speaker 2 It literally affects these people's mortgage interest rates and

Speaker 2 closing dates, etc. So a lot of people wait on Fed Day.

Speaker 2 In our industry, the macro, everybody's watching. Everybody's watching who the next Fed president's going to be.
Everybody's watching you know, Trump's moves. Everybody was excited.

Speaker 2 You know, also, one of the things, because we're in the finance business, everybody wants

Speaker 2 someone who's

Speaker 2 who helps you with your taxes and self-employment laws, etc. So that everybody wants someone like that in office because it just helps our business and our bank accounts personally.

Speaker 2 So those macro decisions as well politically impact our business. So, you know,

Speaker 2 I'm very much an advocate of people paying attention to the macros because that's what impacts them at the micro level. But also, like, you know, always sharpen your micro knowledge as well.
And then

Speaker 2 also, it's important for at the micro level in our business to be very knowledgeable, like to know what's going on with your state council, your city council, your,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 charities that you donate to locally, your local communities, et cetera. So all of that's very, very relative in our space.

Speaker 3 Joseph, I could talk to you for hours, man. I think what you've done is phenomenal.

Speaker 3 I'm a big fan of how you approach it, of your mindset. I think that you are completely dialed on how to get after this and be successful.

Speaker 3 If people want to go deeper into your world, where's the best place to do that?

Speaker 2 Just find me on social media, Joseph Shalabi, on all social platforms, or follow my show, Coffees for Closers, Coffees with a Z.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much, man.
I appreciate your time.

Speaker 2 Thanks, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 Hear that? That's me with a lemonade in a rocker on my front porch. How did I get here? I invested to make my dream home home.

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