Champion flatulence, football punditry sat navs & Sean Dyche X Big Sam

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I'm sorry.

You can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gas going on how to crack?

Yes, you know.

Oh, I think.

Brilliant.

But jeez!

He's round the goal, Keeper.

He's done it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eye whip without a shadow of a doubt getting him lip.

Oh, I say!

It's amazing!

He does it tame and tame and tame again.

Break up the music!

Charge a glass!

This nation is going to dance all night!

John Champion lowers the tone in the iBrox commentary gantry.

Monday night football's under the radar vandalism of the embryonic Premier League table.

Common football perpetuated geographical errors in audio dramas.

Why would you want a football pundit's voice in charge of your car's sat-nav?

Sean Deish meets his podcasting destiny with some very predictable results.

Front post nodding.

Keezy's favourite hotel lager brand.

And how late in a game a defense can be caught cold.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Football Clichés.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the Midweek Adjudication Panel.

Joining me is Charlie Eccleshare.

How you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Alongside you, David Walker.

How are things?

Things are good.

Big news.

The broadcasting landscape is changing, lads.

The rest is football now has La Liga highlights.

Mark Goldbridge is now doing official Bundesliga watch-alongs this season, which begs the obvious question, what league could we get?

What level are we at, Dave?

I mean, Siri Art is still out there, but we probably don't have the cash for that.

I don't think, do we?

Who knows?

What's the going rate for this sort of thing?

If we did get Siriat, I think we should install, if we've got to like broadcast official broadcast rights to Siriat, we should install the musical commentator.

Gets the shot away.

He does every game.

He's our main man.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah, we need to sort of brand tie-in somehow.

But Charlie, maybe the question isn't what level should we plummet to to meet our sort of stature.

Maybe it's that we have to sort of fit with our theme a bit.

And I thought we could choose a league that would be sarcastically referenced in a throwaway fashion for like a hipster.

So, I don't know, the Paraguayan third division or something like that.

Yeah, or we could do Turkish Superliga.

I mean, that's been obviously synonymous with us for some time.

Yeah, because actually getting to watch all these players we talked about hypothetically moving.

That's actually a sensible suggestion.

That's about our level in the grand scheme of things.

And we'd have great fun just picking out all these random players that we used to know and love in

the post-Barclays era.

So this could work perfectly for us, actually.

Yeah.

Can we chuck in a hair transplant and a teeth job while we're at it?

All right, hands up.

Fine.

Right.

Yes, speaking of whoring ourselves out, clichés is going live in 2025, as you probably already know.

Join us in Brighton, Cardiff, Hackney Empire in London, Birmingham, Dublin, and Manchester.

But not Leeds and Glasgow.

They're sold out.

Go to tickets.footballcliches.com and join us live in October.

It's going to be be brilliant.

Every new thing I find, I share with Charlie and Dave and they love it.

The show is coming along very nicely.

Time for the midweek adjudication panel.

A recap on the thing I asked our listeners for quite desperately the other day for examples of clubs who have played each other twice in the same season in two different European competitions.

Charlie, some people didn't get the remit and sent me examples of team playing each other twice in the same competition, which was quite annoying, actually.

I'll be honest with you.

But we should have seen this coming.

Celtic have experienced this twice in successive seasons.

Of course, Charlie, it was Celtic.

Celtic are perfectly designed for this to happen to them, right?

Yeah, yeah, very in their wheelhouse.

Perennial qualifier failed qualifiers for the Champions League.

Paul McNellis says in 2018-19, Celtic beat Rosenborg in the second qualifying round.

Then we subsequently lost to AAK at Athens.

Celtic then drew Rosenborg in the Europa League group stages the same season.

I mean, that's the textbook situation that we said would happen.

That's the only way it should happen.

The following season, Hamish Carton says, my team, Celtic, faced Cluj in the penultimate Champions League qualifying round.

Cluj won, but they were then knocked out in the final round of qualifying.

And we won our Europa League qualifier.

They were drawn together in the same Europa League group.

We won the group.

Cluj finished second, meaning that a fifth and sixth meeting could have been possible had both teams come through one round of knockouts.

What a scenario that would have been.

I mean, three times in one European competition would have been ridiculous.

That would be ridiculous.

That would be too far.

Disappointed you didn't get this one, Charlie.

Michael says it's actually happened this season as well.

Dreeta from Kosovo have faced FC Differdanger in two European competitions.

All eyes on that one.

I'd say this season is about the least likely for me or any of us probably to get it.

Like far more likely if it had happened in 96, 97 or something.

Yeah.

Yeah,

that's one for the sweeper podcast, isn't it?

100%.

No love lost between the Kosovans and Luxembourg bourgeois.

On another point, Johnny Samuel writes in, Dave, and says, the demise of Too Good, Too Bad.

I want to campaign for Sunday Best, Sunday Worst as its natural replacement for post-match of the day too.

Please, could you support?

Can we get behind this campaign?

I like it.

Yeah, it works.

I feel that it's just a bit more Colin Murray era.

I could see him.

I could see him pushing that as a feature

in his days.

You know, Gabby Logan or Kelly and Chappers, I don't know.

I feel like they've moved on a little bit, haven't they now?

Always a shame, Charlie, to see media move on from wry possibilities and little moments of levity.

I mean, it's such a shame.

I mean, we'll be the last one standing soon.

Yeah, exactly.

Everyone's taking it so seriously.

Sunday Best is great.

I mean, I'm surprised that's not used as more just like a stock headline or picture caption.

Maybe it is.

I'm just not noticing it.

That's what we can do.

That's our way into the rights market.

We'll do Sunday Best, Sunday Worst.

We'll do too good, too bad for Siri Apple.

For the Turkish Super League.

If we did it with the Premier League, we'd have to use still images like Sky Sports do at the World Cup.

Can't use footage.

You have to zoom in slowly on a photo to when we talk about it.

Right, next, this came from William Abbs.

Here is John Champion and Neil McCann on Amazon Prime Video Duty at

for Rangers against club Bruges right on the stroke of half-time.

And I think this is slightly unbecoming of the great John Champion.

I have to say, Neil, it's the first time we've had the pleasure of working together, but arguably you may have made the most heinous decision of the night.

Bearing in mind the sort of intimate nature of a commentary box in deciding to go for a curry just before the game.

Yeah, well, I was just waiting until you brought that up, but you're safe so far, Joanne I would like to see.

You're safe so far.

It was a good curry and there's nothing happening as yet that's going to excite the country here, so don't worry about no developments to report.

Very good curry, Mr.

Sides.

Brave new world for comedy gantry, Charlie.

I mean, I mean, PG-rated, of course, but just

I don't know.

I've never heard it, that sort of level of banter before, and I don't know if I want to hear it again.

Yeah, the most you normally get for kind of like that peek behind the curtain is, you know, oh, you've gone early with your cup of tea, or sometimes there was one recent where they were teasing one of them about having lots of sweets or something like that.

Like, that's about the level.

That

curry stuff's a little bit more than we've heard before.

Do you think there's a slight, just slight undercurrent of passive aggressiveness from champion to just sort of saying, look, I'm happy to make a joke of this, but please don't have a curry again before the curry again.

Next up, this came from Josh Gilchrist.

This is the half-time of the Sky Sports Plus coverage of Tramere Rovers versus Burton Albion in the Carabelle.

And just a glimpse into the glamorous life of midweek football commentating.

So there we are.

one all at half-time.

Second half to come.

And remember, we have to have a winner tonight to see who will be at home to Lincoln City in round two next week.

It's all sounding okay.

Boston United will ever see.

Good.

Yeah, find that.

Yeah, it's a decent game as well, isn't it?

And it's nice when the numbers are clear as well.

Because the telly I've got,

I think this is a 26-inch tele.

The other games that I've done, it's been like the 43-inch.

So precise.

Could have been so much worse.

Yeah, you're sort of on edge hearing that.

This is the problem, Dave, with these kind of no-frills kind of broadcast packages.

They don't really know what to do at half-time, do they?

So it was unfortunate that his audio was caught there.

I don't imagine he knew he was on air in any sort of meaningful way, but yeah.

Could have had a worse phone conversation, I imagine, than that just chatting to his presumably producer about TV screen sizes.

Yeah, that's the thing, because there's no co-commentator on these games.

So it's not like, you know, if there was, then actually probably more risky.

Like if you just get caught having some bunter chit-chat with the co-comms and you think you're off air, but it's awful.

There's another clip we might have seen doing the rounds after last night's games.

Plymouth's in-house media were interviewing Tom Cleverly, but they were like setting up still and like trying to work out, you know, the framing of the cameras and the sound and everything.

But they were live.

They didn't realise they'd gone live.

So there's this clip of about there's no point posting it because it's basically nothing is said, but it's just

Tom Cleverly sort of standing there, quietly seething as this poor bloke just sort of faffs around trying to get the thing set up, but the whole thing's going out.

It's excruciating.

The other bloke sort of loses his patience in the end with the whole thing as well and they sort of just rip off their microphones and walk away.

It's like God.

Yeah, cleverly takes the mic off and walks out of shot.

Again, could have been worse.

You can imagine some managers would have absolutely gone mental at the guy.

Yeah, some of the older guard would not have had that.

Dave, did you watch Monday Night Football on Monday night?

I actually watched it right from start to finish.

Me too.

All the way through.

Yeah.

Yeah, me too.

It felt more important to watch the first one of the season all the way through, because the predictions, that sort of stuff.

Not that I care about those really.

But David Russell has a huge concern about something that happened at half-time on Monday Night Football.

Gary Neville was the voice of running through the upcoming matches on Sky, like the rugby league and the films and stuff.

Dave Jones just let him do it, and it just felt weird.

And David Russell says, Have I missed this happening before, or was it the first time?

Shouldn't be allowed.

It's like Charlie hosting clichés.

Just no, don't want it.

It is weird.

Yeah, I noticed that as well.

I don't know whether he's done it before.

Obviously, he's kind of like the nominal sort of host of Stick to Football, Football, isn't he?

On the overlap and he kind of does the ad reads and so maybe he feels like he's sl slightly moving into the hosting territory but it yeah does he really do the formal kind of furniture for stick to football?

Well there isn't much of it really but yes he does

he kind of yeah he introduce he does once once they've yeah once they've done their sort of soft opening chit chat he will sort of welcome you to the show and then you know they do have ad reads and stuff that he does.

But um yeah it was weird and Dave Jones was sort of chipping in as as he was doing it on Sky as well, wasn't he?

I don't know.

That was like Adam when I did the quiz.

Just couldn't quite let go.

Exactly.

Yep, yep.

Got to keep some ownership of the situation.

But that wasn't the biggest scandal of Monday Night Football, Charlie.

And as revealed by Bring, Bring 12 on the Reddit, which got everyone up in absolute roar.

Sky were doing the league table afterwards.

They showed us the top half and they scrolled to the bottom half, but the bottom half came down from above and the top half disappeared below.

So 20 just followed one down the screen until it had disappeared.

and then filled and then they showed the bottom half it scrolled the wrong way and did it look completely mad it looks insane yeah i've watched the video a bit i've paused it halfway down so the 20s in the middle meeting the one in the middle of the screen while the top half disappears at the bottom it looks ludicrous who why would you do it that way yeah i mean they have made a few changes haven't they their font as well on the highlights looks Looks a bit weird.

I mean, I guess we don't get used to them.

Do you?

Maybe it's just a getting used to it thing, but I'm not crazy.

Just on the right, just on the right on the cusp, David, being a little bit too futuristic looking.

But it's got substance to it.

There's a luxury to it without being too...

TNT to me is too serify.

It's too fancy.

Skies has always been nice, big and bold.

I said this on Twitter, but it's quite Web 2.0.

Sort of quite a little bit rounded.

There's almost a lack of a slight lack of gravitas to it.

Do you know what I mean?

It's sort of a bit...

playful but I don't mind it it's just a fucking font isn't it at the end of the day but the um no stick to

table thing is just absolutely mental.

Like, I can't, I'd love to know.

There must be someone out here out there listening who either works for Sky or

is in a similar role somewhere else.

And

is that just a fault?

Have they just sort of done it the wrong way?

It can't be intentional.

It's like when you look at the globe from a different angle and you see that Alaska and Russia are actually really close together.

You don't think of the two as being close together, but all of a sudden 20 and 1 have met around the other side.

That's exactly what it's like.

Someone from Sky needs to be hauled over the coals for this, Charlie, at least be brought out to explain it on a technical level because it can't go on.

Can't have this for 38 weeks of the season.

All eyes on next week's table.

Yeah, Carragher will have a word.

It's fine.

No footballers' names in things on the podcast this week, which is disappointing, but I do have some football-perpetuated common geographical errors in things for you.

This came from George Montagnon Fox, who sounds like a Sherlock Holmes character, and fittingly enough, sent us this from Goalhanger's Sherlock and Co.

podcast.

Damn it, Watson.

Look, she, we do get a lot of access, you've got to admit it.

I'm a detective.

Yeah, it says you, you're not qualified.

Excuse me.

I'm just saying, I know you're brilliant, but there's nothing on paper saying you're a detective, but they still bend over backwards to give us access.

And me,

I'm a doctor from Swindon.

We've got an accountant from Sociodad downstairs, and both of us get ridiculously high clearing.

How has this been allowed to happen, Charlie?

Wow.

I didn't see that coming.

Got some niche football experts in the building.

Should have consulted with them, but they didn't.

It's La Real, actually, Watson.

The bask outfit.

Yep.

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Speaking of traveling, Green Toes987 alerted me on Reddit recently, Dave, that car navigation app Waze now has a drive with a football pundit option.

I don't know why this has been created and what the demand for it is, but I've given it a go.

We're ready to go.

This afternoon's clash is going to be a real tactical battle.

If I were managing this side, I'd be setting up in a 4-5-1.

Turn right.

That's right out of the top drawer.

And then, turn left.

They've got that little something special that unlocks defenses.

Right, Charlie, one, the synergy between driving and football chat there is completely non-existent.

Bro, complete waste of time.

Two, like, that touches can be really distracting.

Like, this isn't helpful for driving.

Yeah, quite.

Yeah,

surely...

The last thing you want is sort of like gimmicks and stuff with your directions.

Like, yeah.

Just tell me where I need to go i don't want to be like translate even if it was i don't want to be translating football speech yeah can i just ask the question is is that don goodman or andy hinchcliffe

that's the one thing i will give it credit for dave that's a very authentic football pundit voice and i completely agree they've basically gone down the charlie ecclesiah route for approximating it which is quite funny it's absolutely mental i thought i thought this was some sort of elaborate setup to a gag is this real yeah it's real it took me a while to to set it up but once i did it ludicrous and that was just that was just a very simple journey.

So I'm going to take it out for a proper spin at some point.

You actually went on a drive with it.

No, I just set it up and it told me what directions to go.

Didn't it?

I'm going to fool that.

No.

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Now, how this has not happened before, I've got no idea.

It's taken them many episodes to get to this point, but Sean Dice, Charlie, has finally appeared on no tippy-tappy football with Sam Alladyce.

I mean, this is, this is, this was destiny, isn't it?

Yeah, I find it so hard to believe Sean Dice was a Premier League manager this year.

Like, he already seems to have kind of, I mean, by doing things like this, entered that kind of Allardyce realm.

But he's like a very recent Premier League manager.

He could be a Premier League manager again.

His Premier League existence has entered the Conte Tuchul handshake phase of Tybalt, as it were.

Yeah, exactly.

And part of the reason, Dave, for that sort of increasingly distant concept of Sean Dice as a Premier League manager is because he keeps giving interviews to various sort of chatty podcasts where he continues to cast scorn over modern football in the way that Sean Dice sort of enjoys doing clearly.

So we've got a series of clips here,

highlights from his appearance on no tippy tabby football.

Let's kick things off with his big love, music, of course.

Here's Sean Deish on Oasis.

No, I'm not just saying it.

I swear, I saw him at Ned Both.

That was the last time I saw him.

You know, you just think, because obviously I know a few bands and you know, it takes a bit like falling.

It's like a pre-seeding.

It takes a bit of time to get going.

They didn't need any time to get going.

They just went bang and smashed it.

And I thought, fair play.

You know, they were terrific.

that's actually right up their day with Andy Tanzanon for Fu Fighters, I think.

But

it was the very football-y sort of slap of the hand said, Yeah, bang straight in there.

Fair play, they were right at it, yeah, yeah.

Jokingy really was at an Ebworth, yeah, back in the day.

That would have been a year, if it was in 96, yeah, so it was just before the Chesterfield

FA Cup semis.

Wow, what a year!

Yeah,

what a year is it a year he's having.

But the uh, the real crux of this appearance was Sean Dice placing himself himself in the modern landscape of coaching.

And here he is on young coaches playing the right way.

And I try and tell young coaches, I go, look, nowadays you've got to sell this new product, right?

We're all playing the right way and we're all doing this, we're all doing that.

No, they're under pressure.

I know.

They have to.

Some of you want to think you're a whopper.

We all do it.

You go, shut up.

You know what I mean?

You're not reinventing the wheel.

But some do it because they have to.

And you can sense it.

They're almost under pressure to sell this mythical with all these new manner, you know,

new phase,

double pivots, block block and all that stuff inverted wingers

and then you're like a dinosaur for not using them terms but we've all heard them a million times and these guys didn't need to use them it's knackered now charlie it's knackered let it go

so painfully off the base as well i mean here's there are echoes there aren't there of alan brazil the dean saunders just sort of trotting things out that are vaguely on the top of his head slightly postmodern twist on this particular strand of conversation dave when sean dice couldn't remember the word for terminology and then treated the word terminology as if it was new terminology

was it what they call it terminology and

allodice would just say yeah sayings inverted wingers is not a saying yeah the proverb

next up here's sean dice singling someone out here he is on andoni irayola yeah bournemouth turning you around just turn turn you turn you turn you and i think he's done brilliant you know because we played him when he was trying to play all out for And he's one of the Spanish managers that's going to go to the top like

he keeps turning you, turning you.

Well, that's long ball, you know.

Yeah, but they do it in a way that, because he's Spanish.

But I think he's better when we're playing.

It's a Spanish long ball, but it's just

him when he was first there.

And we absolutely ran all over him, 3-0 at home at Evan.

By the next time we played him, he changed.

And I thought, fair play to you.

He is setting the agenda.

It's great.

But the Spanish long ball has completely sent me.

I really enjoyed that.

It's the old Spanish long ball.

Fairly respectful.

Charlie, we should try and meet Daish halfway here managers do change the way they sort of coach and set up their teams in response to the conditions that they're playing in right so that's all right I'm all right with that yeah I mean I'm sure he's got loads of interesting things to say about these managers and like you get a little insight into it there but obviously that's not really what seems to be what you know what's wanted from this is for him to just kind of slag them off and say that it's all old you know new fangled nonsense.

But Dave,

why has he entrenched himself in this just having to prove that the old ways of football are still relevant?

Like, what's to be gained from this?

I mean, I'm sure we've asked this question before in this podcast, but

what is he going to gain from this professionally and personally?

It is quite strange, because he's, there was a time, maybe before he got the Everton job or just as he was starting it, you sort of thought that, right, okay, come on.

Like, he did a good job at Burnley, and like now it is his time to sort of kick on and establish himself

at a level up.

But obviously, it didn't go well there.

And it seems, you you know, it just seems like he's becoming the sort of parody of himself.

When you know, you sort of still feel there is more to him than this.

Like,

he doesn't need to do this.

But the weird thing about it, Charlie, is this isn't sort of Keesy level bitterness being discarded by football.

Because there's no real tangible signs that Daish has been cast aside by football.

He's doing it really happily, which in some ways I actually quite respect.

He quite enjoys doing this stuff.

It's not, he hasn't got a chip on his shoulder, really.

Do you think, I don't know, I suspect there's an element where he thinks he has he is a bit undervalued and underrated and sort of dismissed maybe okay on that note then here is sean dice seeing into the future seeing how the football landscape's going to change i think i think the big centre forward is coming back round definitely that's what's going to happen the big centre forward is going to come back round because so many teams defend deep now

you know low low block there's so many now there always has to be a dig doesn't there just let it go but also the funny thing there is he does want to use it and he realizes there isn't really a better thing or certainly there's not a thing that comes to his mind first than Low Block, but he has to be suggesting Sam Lee.

So

I'm not using it seriously here.

Like I am taking the piss out of it.

Big bold claim from Sean Dice there, Dave, as well.

The number nines are coming back.

Oh, I had noticed.

Thank you, Sean.

Yes.

Literally every club is signing one.

So yeah.

Fly me.

Some guy called Erling Harland.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was, it was, he really was playing all the hits in this podcast without really getting too into it.

But yeah, no new information from Sean Dice, recycling a lot of stories that he's been telling over the last sort of 18 months or so.

But this moment here was the moment where I really thought, right, that is enough Sean Dice media work for the next decade.

But no, you're the first to send me it.

You know, it's bizarre.

I hear that all the time.

So, utter woke nonsense is your meme.

So, we've put together a list of things that happen in football these days, and we want to know if you think they are utter woke nonsense or not.

I don't even want to play you the five things.

It's essentially irrelevant, but

don't make Dice do this.

Daishy, Daishi, don't embrace it either.

There should be an agreement.

Just leave it behind now.

Utter woke nonsense has run its course.

I think we can all agree.

Does he?

Does he enjoy it?

Seemingly.

Yeah.

It's definitely not beyond the realms of possibility for him to have a podcast called Utter Woke Nonsense in three years' time or something.

If this next job goes badly.

Probably produced by the same people who do this podcast.

So not this one.

Not this one.

I will do it.

Sorry, lads.

I'm a bit late.

A bit late.

Sean, Daishy's.

Daishi's been on at me again.

The Wi-Fi.

Daishy's Wi-Fi's let him down again.

God,

that would actually send you over the edge, wouldn't it?

Daishi's Wi-Fi.

Right, let's move on.

Jack Watkins has a poser for us, Charlie.

He says, it's obviously quite common to nod a ball in at the back post, a la Califioria, Old Trafford, on Sunday.

But is it possible to nod a ball in at the near post?

Or do the angles involved make a near post nod impossible?

I've never really confronted this before in my life.

Can you think of a near-post nod?

The nearest thing I could think of was Alan Shearer opening the scoring for England against Germany at Euro 96.

Tony Adams is flick-on.

Yeah.

It's not quite noddy enough.

It's a firm downward header, but it is near post.

Yeah.

He hasn't really nodded it.

I don't know.

Yeah, nodding.

Get on into the near post.

I feel like you just need to do a little bit more than just a nod.

Whereas it's just kind of stealing in at the back post lends itself to it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because near post, obviously near post sort of flick-ons and glancing headers are most common because the ball is still travelling fast enough that that's the easiest and best thing to do.

Whereas at the back post, as was happened at Old Trafford, you know, something might have happened in the meantime to slow the ball down.

Yeah.

So you can just quickly pop up and knob one in.

Whereas it's hard to imagine a ball traveling slow enough or at the right trajectory to knob one in at the near post.

Spot on, this is a trajectory issue, Charlie.

The ball's going to arc to the back post and someone's going to be there to just nod it home because that's all you need to do.

You don't need to impart any more power on the ball.

You're never going to get that opportunity in the near post.

It'd be very unit's possible.

A ball could loop towards the near post and you nod it in.

I can't think of a situation where that's happened.

It would have to be such terrible marking for that to happen.

Yeah.

Because, as Dave says, it would be coming, that would be an uninterrupted cross,

pretty much.

It would have to be a cast-iron nod as well.

I won't have any borderline nods, and I just, I can't, my mind can't conceive of a footballing scenario where that would happen.

If it sort of pops up off a deflection or something, so it's not from a cross, but there's sort of a bit of a scramble but then yeah the sort of near post happened the near post then doesn't sort of stops being the near post in a way of that yeah it could just bobble up and then you know everyone's jumping for it and someone just literally gets head on it and that's still technically a nod but that could be towering so yeah it's fraught with danger craig laws writes in next dave luton versus wigan uh the luton fans singing conference champions you'll never sing that the wiggin repost with FA Cup champions, you'll never sing that.

And nor should they, because no one should say FA Cup champion, should they, Dave?

No, but I mean, I suppose it's it's in response to champions.

You can see where they've done it, but if they said FA Cup winners, it would it would be correct.

Yeah, but would it sound weird, though, to chant that?

FA Cup winners, yeah, you'll never see that.

It was still scam, but yeah, yeah, I can see what I can see.

I can see the thinking here because it is like it works better rhetorically as a just this is a direct response to you.

Right.

We're just replacing what you're the champions of.

Why are Luton boasting about winning the conference?

Is it sort of ironic?

Yeah, ironic.

And they're sort of proud of their coming back from the injustice of them being relegated in the way they were.

Yeah, presumably partly like you lot are never going to be down in the conference, so you're never going to get the chance to win it.

So yeah, there's pure irony, but disappointed with the Wigan response.

Think it through, I would say.

We haven't had a good one of these for a while, actually.

If X was called Y, Charlie, this is from a Telegraph article about cask beer.

Came from Sabrina.

English people will go into raptures over food and drink they've discovered in Spain or Italy, yet ignore what's right in front of them.

A good friend of mine once argued that cask ale would be more popular if it were called cascale and came from near the mid.

And perhaps there's some truth in that.

Cascale is great.

Yeah, that is really good.

I mean this is this is a good area to do it on like alcohol and food and drink because there probably is something to this like that you know how things are branded like it does massively inform what you think of something.

Oh hugely.

Yeah.

But that yeah that is a funnily extreme because that's like a that's not a brand.

I think that's what makes that funny.

It's like a whole type of drink.

But that's the whole thing, isn't it?

With like Madri, I think.

Is it brewed in Burton?

It's like Carling.

It's essentially Carling, isn't it?

They just rebranded it Madri and then, you know, it's popular.

It's the same thing.

I mean, it's a widely lampooned marketing trick, Dave.

But I get sucked into it easily.

If I'm confronted with six pumps of lago in it and I'm wanting to make a quick decision, I probably will go for the exotic sounding one.

I'll go go for a cruise campo all day long.

Because in my head, it'll be like, well, I'm sort of on holiday a bit.

Like,

I'm getting suckered into it really easily.

I don't mind to admit it at all.

Not that you'd like the taste of it, you just want to think that you're on holiday.

Absolutely no idea what it tastes like.

Not a clue.

Couldn't tell you.

Blind test.

They'd always taste like it.

Cruz Campo.

A bit sweeter, I think.

Is it?

Right.

Yeah, right.

Lovely little Keysy sign-off to this, by the way, Dave.

When they say, yeah, if it was called Cascale and came from near the med, and there's definitely some truth in that.

Look at the baffling popularity of Pironi.

Bafflingly popular, like a goalkeeper who's not doing it for Keesy because he can play out from the back, but he can't stop them going in.

This Pironi.

Baffling.

What would Keese's beer of choice be?

You know what?

I think it could be Pironi, though.

I can imagine him.

I mean, literally, the only reason I'm saying this is because Alan Brazil used to, I've seen him drink a lot of Pironi.

So for some reason, that was always his, probably still is, his beer of choice.

A crisp European lager for Keese.

Because Pironi's often found in like hotel lobbies.

It's quite corporate.

That sort of place where he could sort of, I could imagine Keese's probably not going down the boozer when he gets to England.

He's probably being, he's probably going to be in somewhere that he feels is a little bit quieter.

Yeah, just quietly sipping away at one of those smaller versions of the Pironi glass, crucially, not the big hefty ones.

It's tall but small.

Yeah.

Absolutely

in a a hotel lobby all the way, just waiting for Gray to come down.

Just waiting for Andy.

With his iPad.

You okay?

You okay?

Ready to go?

Reading the mail on his iPad.

Yeah,

and then screenshotting it and tweeting it, I guess.

We were talking on Tuesday's episode, Dave, about the concept of managers saying, I think we've seen the champions there and how early in the season you could make that declaration after you've just lost to a team.

Jack Schenker writes in and says, with reference to this, can I please draw your attention to Gareth Ainsworth's post-match interview after my beloved QPR lost 4-0 to Watford on the opening day of the 23-24 season?

And we conceded the first goal after 35 seconds, despite having taken kickoff ourselves.

And one of the very first things he says is this.

Listen, I thought there were some positives in there.

Second half, especially.

But that first half, we were ripped apart.

We don't know whether we've just played the league winners, you know.

They're a good side.

They look a real good side.

Reasonably textbook way of delivering it, but Dave Watford went on to finish 15th in the championship season.

I remember it well.

We weren't very good that season, and neither were they.

I think he got sacked a few months later.

QPR and Watford Charlie Cousins?

Are they in the Cousins category?

I don't think so.

Because

he's not enjoying that at all.

Yeah, they're two different

sort of Premier League eras in my mind.

There's not enough overlap when they're both sort of knocking around and interchangeable.

We are.

They're both quite distinct.

I think they are technically the closest club to us geographically in the championship.

Okay.

In the championship.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it is just about.

But I know what you mean.

But we are sort of similar.

We played them just this weekend, just gone.

And I was in a pub beforehand that I usually go to.

And for some reason, there were loads of QPR fans there.

But they weren't not like being boisterous or anything.

But they were just sort of, if they didn't have a QPR badge in them, they could have easily been Watford fans.

They're basically the same people.

QPR, Palace, Watford.

Oh, cousins and second cousins, definitely.

Right, Tom W writes in next, Charlie.

He says, with the mention of pastors new,

the phrase that was posed a vito pereira, to some brief befuddlement, I was reminded of this absolute gem from the at the time Barnsley manager Darrell Clark, who while stumbling over his words, produced a magnificent mangling of this particular idiom.

And, you know, players, players, all players want to play Saturday at three o'clock.

They all want to be in the team, but you can only cater for a certain amount.

And we have we have a squad that's probably too big.

Some friend players get a little bit, obviously a little bit frustrated with lack of game time and not showing me enough to get the game time as well, to be honest with you.

And they have to pasteurize new clubs to kickstart the career.

That's absolutely astonishing.

How has that happened?

Pasteurizing.

There's no way he thinks.

I mean, that's a genuine stumbling over words, Channel.

There's no way that he thinks pasteurizing is

no, of course not.

Finding yourself some new pastures.

That's really good.

Pasteurizing.

Thanks.

I'm going to paste your eyes if that's all right.

I've got an early start tomorrow, so I'm just going to paste your eyes.

Bloody hell.

Brilliant.

Inexplicable, really.

Louis Pasteur will be turning in his grave.

Yeah.

Ben Brindle with the next conundrum for us, Dave, says, What's the most times a player or team can do something at the time of asking?

I heard a first and a second in the Ipswich versus Southampton game, but maybe third works too.

I think

you could convert a penalty at the second time of asking.

So if you scored on the rebound, that's the second time of asking.

Is that fair?

In the same penalty, in the second time of asking.

Yeah.

I thought you meant that if you'd taken two penalties in a game, but

I guess so.

I'm open to it.

What about if you were Martin Palermo and you stepping up for your third penalty in that famous game?

But that's the if you'd scored that, that would have been the third time of asking.

That's the third time of asking.

Yeah.

What's the maximum number of askings you can have, Charlie, in any scenario

outside of football as well?

And it's the seventh time of asking.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, Charlie, the one aspect of football that probably doesn't really have a distinct upper limit for times of askings is when you win your first game of the season.

So they've won at the 13th time of asking.

Yeah, that's true.

I mean, there's no obvious limit for the number of askings there, but you'd never have that in a game, would you?

But for a specific act from a player, you're probably

fourth at most.

I mean, even fourth for an individual player.

I mean,

that's just begging.

That's nagging.

That's annoying.

What about if a player finally breaks their duck or sort of scores that scores in a home game for the first time or something at the seventh time of asking?

But I don't know, it might sound a bit weird.

And finally, he scores at the if it's become like a quite well-documented thing how many games this player has played without scoring or something.

And finally, at the tenth time of asking, Peter Crouch scores for Liverpool or something.

Yeah, weirdly.

Like, I like it for players in a specific game in an individual game, Dave.

I like it for teams across a season, but I don't like it for players across a season.

Like, it feels like the phrase doesn't work.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Like, he's finally getting his first goal for his new club at the eighth time of asking.

It doesn't quite sit right, does it?

Because there's too much that's gone on.

Seven, 90 minutes.

It's too simplistic to sum it up.

A lot of us.

It's possibly the eighth time of asking.

Yeah.

Finally, Charlie, James Dean writes in.

He says, just watching Super Sunday and Dave Jones says that Brentford were caught cold just before half-time for Forrest's third goal.

I always thought that caught cold was a lapse of concentration in the early parts of the game as if you haven't done your warm-up properly.

Surely just before half-time is way too late to be caught cold.

Plus the fact they were already 2-0 down.

So third goal conceded is definitely out of contention for a caught cold.

Adjudication, please.

I don't think that there's a time limit on this.

I think it's very localised at the moment.

You were caught unawares.

It's not that you weren't warmed up.

It's just that

it's like a sucker punch.

Well, I was going to say it feels more sucker punch than caught cold.

And like almost to the point where I wonder if that's what Dave Jones sort of was reaching for when he said caught cold.

Because I know I know what James means.

Like caught cold is is typically is more of a kind of early on when they just don't really look set.

I think this is more of a sucker punch situation.

Completely.

Yeah, you can't be caught cold just before half-time when you're already 2-0 down.

I completely agree with James.

Like

I don't see how it works because...

Yeah,

it's pretty literal, the meaning of this.

You are literally like, you're not up to speed yet.

You've been caught cold.

So the start of the second half would be would sort of work as well.

They've been caught cold after the restart.

Yeah, just before halftime.

They should be at their warmest.

They are at their warmest in this half, just before half-time.

That's why, I mean, I completely accept all of those things.

I just caught cold.

Caught cold was completely universal.

They could be used in any minute because I thought it's really localised at the moment.

Okay, Dave, just to illustrate this, what do you think is the classic scenario for a defence being caught cold?

Well, what kind of goal are we talking about?

You could get caught cold within a game from a set piece, from a throw-in, if you're not switched on at a throw-in.

Massive.

Yeah, so it's all about switching off.

But

little thing.

Yeah, but I think the sort of platonic ideal of this is early on, you're caught cold by like

the opposition team is passing it backwards and then just kind of launches one forward.

And your defence isn't really set because they're not sort of up to the speed of the game.

And suddenly, someone's running in behind and scored.

Do you want to get caught cold?

You know, remember that Pedro goal against United in a 4-0 win for Chelsea would have been like October 2016.

Look it up, listeners.

There's a ball that's kind of hopeful, and De Gea and I think Smalling and maybe even another defender are almost thinking, like, ah, it's too early in the game.

Nothing's going to happen.

Oh, fuck.

He's through and has scored.

It's a perfect court cold because it's just like, we're not set.

We're just not thinking you're going to score in the first 20 seconds or whatever.

And you think that goal couldn't have existed in any other phase of the match, realistically?

It's a very early stages kind of goal.

Right.

Yeah, if you look at the goal, it just looks, everything about it looks early in a game.

I'm so resigned, Dave, so the listeners completely agree with you two here.

I've conceded defeat on this now.

I've had too many L's about this sort of thing recently, but

I just think you could be caught cold at any point.

I do.

I really do.

Only specifically, as you've just said,

if it's from a throw-in, maybe a corner, but definitely like a or a quick-free kick or something like that

in a game.

You can localise the caught coldness in that moment, but not in the way that Dave Jones is using it here.

Like the general sort of, oh, and Brentford have just been caught cold as they've conceded conceded their third, but just before half-time.

He's clearly not talking about a specific incident there, is he?

So to rubber stamp this, Charlie,

you definitely can't be caught cold for a third goal that you've conceded in a half.

You're already.

I don't think so.

Okay.

I think it sounds odd.

Okay.

Unless he was sort of referring more generally to it being the first game of the season.

They're still, you know, they've been

half-time in the first game of the season and they're 3-0 down.

Because over the course of the season...

it's still cold.

It's a fraction of the season's gone after only half of the first game.

But it's cold.

Is that not allowed?

Right, okay, fine.

Well, ending on a controversial note, but I respect both of your strong opinions and indeed James Dean's on this.

Thanks to you, Charlie Equisher.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

We'll be back on Tuesday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

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