Overage youth team mentors & the quickest repaying of a transfer fee ever

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Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's going to tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

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I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as

But jeez!

He's round the goal, Keymade.

Done it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eye whip without a shadow of a doubt getting him lip.

Oh, I say

it's amazing.

He does it tame and tame and tame again.

Break up the music!

Charge a glass!

This nation is going to dance all night!

Jonathan Pierce hits his Euro 2025 stride.

The lionesses hit the clamour button, the shot mustering threshold, Jao Pedro and the most literal act of a player repaying the chunk of their transfer fee ever seen.

A very subtly incorrect way of describing Fabio Capello.

Which club would most likely sign the Free Agent 11 in its entirety?

entirety?

The wholesome phenomenon of re-signing a player to be the overage mentor to your under-21s?

And football mentality at the supermarket?

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Football Clichés.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the adjudication panel.

Joining me is Charlie Ecclesia from Wimbledon.

How are you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Alongside you is David Walker.

How are you doing?

I'm good.

On Tuesday's episode, talk turned to Dominic Calvert Lewin and how we pondered about whether there was still a player in there and who should pipe up within minutes of us recording with this.

I used to think there was a player in Calvert Lewin.

There still might be, but United can't seriously be thinking about signing him.

What a come-down.

The Jim Reaper has led the club into a cul-de-sac.

I'd be surprised if the new stadium ever gets built.

It's a shambles.

It really is like a mini-blog, isn't it?

All in one.

Yeah,

it's the same style.

He's gagging to blog, isn't he?

Just do a blog, Keezy.

It's fine.

Or just you get like the Twitter verification.

You do this really long posts.

If he can't be asked to actually, you know, put it on his blog, just do it there.

But yeah, confirmation there, Charlie, that Calvert Lewin has passed out of his still a player in their phase, as you suspected.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's

sad confirmation for him.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, for there not even to be a player in there, because that's already like, well, it depends a lot on the emphasis of how you say it, but that's also slightly damning with faint praise anyway, because obviously it implies they're perceived to be over the hill or have just had a bad spell somewhere.

Right.

The fact that the keys is saying, I used to think there was a player in there with Calvert Lewin.

It's like, well, obviously there was at some point.

Yeah, but it's implied, isn't it?

He's saying I did think he was at the stage where you could say, yeah, he used to be good, and then I think he might get back there.

And he's saying he's even gone beyond that stage.

Dreamland subscribers, you will have received an email telling you where you can sign up for your free ticket and also to register for your

team of tickets as well.

For the rest of you, tickets are going to go on general sale for the Newcastle live quiz on Friday at 9am at quiz.football cliches.com.

Leads sold out in a few hours, so I would get on that if you want to join us for an evening of niche football trivia.

Possibly the greatest live football quiz ever held, Dave, I think we can safely say.

Yeah, I think so.

Safely say it.

Yeah.

Just check that pause.

It's just checking whether it's safe to come out with it.

Yep, yep, yep.

I think it's safe.

Yeah, Dreamland subscriber or not, hope to see you at digital on Thursday, September the 25th.

Right, time for the midweek adjudication panel.

A lovely little mixture.

of content tonight.

Let's start at Euro 2025.

This came from Joe White, Jonathan Pierce, having an absolute whale of a time.

I really hope the man who designed the Norwegian numbers on the back of their shirts is happy with his work.

They are a nightmare.

Just the right level of annoyed Dave before it starts to sound like he doesn't want to be there.

But he is right.

I mean, they are a disgrace to the kit fonts.

It's not like it's a, I can't see them because of the colours issue.

His issue is is with the almost the font, I guess.

Completely unreadable.

Pointy numbers.

Yeah.

And when the numbers are bad, Charlie, you know that that's going to annoy a commentator.

It's been a long old season for Jonathan Pierce.

He's got himself to a major tournament.

He's happy and he's confronted with this as well.

Only Jonathan Pierce could carry off this level of irritation, I think.

Yeah, I guess this is like the sort of poor Wi-Fi that we reporters whinge about.

Like it's that it's the kind of like, oh, you know, I'm in position and I can't, you know, I can't do my job properly.

And for Pierce and other commentators, that does make their life pretty difficult.

And I have to say, I am in awe of their ability with so many different teams to so rarely make mistakes.

Yeah, totally.

And they're often quite far from the pitch as well to even spot this sort of thing.

But yeah, hopefully his tournament improves from here.

Speaking of tournament narrative arcs, Dave, England's tournament has reached the clamour phase with calls for 19-year-old Michelle Aguimang to be unleashed against the Netherlands.

Now, by the time this podcast has gone out, people will know whether she has indeed been unleashed against the Netherlands.

But this has all the hallmarks of a classic clamour.

Young striker with a different dimension about her, in her case, a physical kind of presence.

Hasn't played much football, so there's the mystique about her, but did score on her England debut after a matter of moments.

So

I think it all...

It all adds up.

And a brilliant goal as well.

The goal that she scored was a great control and volley, yeah, a few minutes after coming on.

And she did come on against France for the last five minutes and put herself about.

Right.

She's very much the something different option.

Slinger on at the end.

And, you know, if you need something, you need to throw balls into the box.

So I don't think she's going to be unleashed from the start, but I think we might see her at some point.

The something different concept, Charlie, is gloriously unsophisticated.

It's basically predicated around either being quick or being massive and strong.

And those are the two things.

Those are the two different dimensions a player can bring.

Andy Carroll at Euro 2012.

Like the absolute sweet spot of that.

I mean, I think that the other, the sort of other category of clamour, though, is just like you can't hold them back any longer.

Like Michael Owen or Wayne Rooney.

Like, it doesn't matter how young they are.

They're just so good.

They've got to play, you know, sort of argument,

which is slightly different from a, they offer something different.

That's almost pre-tournament clamour, though, isn't it?

That's, you know, we're suspicious of this manager not being forward-thinking enough to put this young player in the team right from the off.

Whereas, this is the classic mid-tournament clamour of we're not doing very well, so what can we do?

Looking in the squad, what could we do to try and rescue the situation?

Elsewhere at Euro 2025, Opta Joe published this stat, Charlie.

12, Germany's Clara Ball mustered 12 shots against Denmark, the joint most by a player on record since 2013 at a UEFA Women's Euro tournament.

Ben writes in and says, Can you muster the most most shots on record?

Mustard is surely for the least on record.

You can't muster 12 shots in a game, can you?

That's so true, yeah.

They barely mustered.

Like, yeah, mustard's always a bad, low number.

Yeah,

great spot.

What's the upper limit, Dave, for a shot mustering?

It's not many, is it?

Yeah, it's two or three.

Yeah.

But three isn't bad.

Three's all right for a player.

Yeah, yeah.

For a player, yeah, but if you can get it for a team as well, like, you know, they only mustered three shots at home to Leicester.

Yeah.

Three attempts on goal.

Yeah.

What should we be using then?

Instead of mustard?

Germany's Clara Burl.

A mast?

Registered.

Registered is fine.

I went too early with a mast

racked up.

Registered is fine.

Yeah, mustard is overwhelmingly quite a negative thing, I think.

So yeah, mustard versus registered.

The age-old debate.

Let's move over to the Club World Cup now.

As Jao Pedro put Fluminenze to the sword, Dave, I pondered whether he was already repaying a chunk of his £55 million fee as he sent Chelsea into the Club World Cup final.

Luke Jensen-Jones says, to be precise, if his goals are the difference, it'll earn Chelsea 22 million in prize money, meaning he'll have repaid exactly 40% of his fee.

It's the most clear-cut, slam-dunk case of a player repaying a chunk of his fee.

Like, quite literally, directly doing it.

Yeah, it's so nice it works so nicely because it's quite a rare situation isn't it that you'll be signed and then thrown straight into a competition where you can win this sort of prize money.

I mean I suppose there isn't I mean maybe in the old days before the transfer window if you were signed in March and you played in the Champions League and you weren't cup-tied or something.

But I can't think of any other example where that would work like that.

But but also isn't this we talked the other week about what how will football in this era be remembered.

Isn't this a very PSR-y way of looking at football?

I mean, you know, this is the age we're in, that we're talking in these terms.

You've become such a romanticist about this sort of stuff.

It's amazing.

You know, you don't think of like, if this is all Jal Pedro does for Chelsea, I don't think people are going to be like, what a signing that was.

Remember those goals he scored in the Club World Cup?

You know, PSR-wise.

Just give his family mate.

Yeah, he literally is, but that's what I mean.

We're at a point in football where we think in these terms, we think so PSR, so literally about money.

Like, this is not what he's been signing to do, I assume.

To be fair, that kind of preempts the question I was about to ask you, Charlie, which is, um, you know, there have been some half-hearted efforts to turn the business end of the Premier League season into a race for the extra three million pounds per place for teams who aren't really sort of playing for anything.

Um, but the Club World Cup is so clearly the

football tournament that has been most defined by its prize money I've ever seen.

There's no there's no competition.

And it it's but I you can kind of see why because it's really struggling to overcome this kind of it looks like a glorified preseason tournament.

And this, to be fair, is kind of rubber stamps it a bit.

It's like there's no prestige to it yet, but there is a lot of money involved.

There's money, yeah.

That's what was so ridiculous about that Carve Sodo.

His sort of try telling them it doesn't matter, was talking about Chelsea executives.

He was saying they're here, they care, because the PSR was like, oh, right, God.

And there I was thinking it was a soulless, grotesque, money-driven competition.

Oh, but the Chelsea executives care.

Oh, oh, God, I was, I was wrong all along.

It is great.

I do think the fact that Chelsea have been able, you know, and any team could do this, but a fact that a team has been able to sign a player and play him in the middle of a tournament is just so completely against the spirit of a tournament.

It does feel mad.

You can't just sign a player

before the semi-final.

This is literally what happened to us.

Jael Pedro should not, they should be thrown out.

They brought in bloody Jael Pedro for the semi-final, for fuck's sake.

The Southern Sunday wouldn't have it.

I thought this might trigger you.

I mean, Carabao cup you could do it couldn't you i was thinking of other competitions but yeah yeah you could because january you could get someone in they could play the semis in the final but yeah for for a tournament for a summer tournament it feels it feels so weird and wrong i mean conversely uh jamie gittens who signed for chelsea from dortmund halfway through this tournament um isn't allowed to play for chelsea um like this has just been widely assumed dave that he's not allowed to play for chelsea in the rest of the club world cup because he's played for dortmund already in the tournament but it did make me wonder like have fifa even bothered to to like publish some regulations of his side?

I don't, they probably just didn't get around to it.

So,

it'll be all right, we'll address it as it comes.

What if someone signs halfway through?

Oh, it'll be fine, it'd be fine.

I don't reckon they've been asked to come up with some regulations for this.

But it's a bit like in reality TV shows, like Big Brother, used to do this.

They'd just sort of be like, ah, this is actually getting a bit boring.

Should we just introduce some new people or heaven and hell or send a bloke to South Africa?

Like, we're desperate here.

Like, this is kind of what they're doing.

Yeah, but anything goes in this Club World Cup.

As indeed evidenced by this.

In attendance at the Met Life Stadium for Chelsea vs.

Fluminense was one Fabio Capello.

And he was introduced by the commentator thus.

Fall back as we go look at Fabio Capello.

My stands here.

Former England man.

Now, Charlie, it's such a subtle thing.

But it has such a massively jarring effect.

I and D writes in and says, why is the Dazone commentator describing Fabio Capello as the former England man so jarring?

I mean, yeah,

I mean, we know why, but it's so funny because it conjures up.

I mean, we were talking about Plan B's before and as though Capello was this sort of like, oh, I've got to give Capello a run about, haven't we?

Like, you know, he's good in the air.

He can put himself about.

This sort of journeyman, versatile midfielder for England.

But why should club slash country X man be a exclusive thing for players, Dave?

Why can't a manager be an ex-club man?

Is it because the sort of word man is sort of

a sort of synonym for just a body in a team, basically?

Too much, he's part of the group.

I agree.

You know, yeah, he's in the squad, sort of.

Whereas

it's as if he's like

a soldier when he's not.

He's a general.

Yeah, basically.

He's a different rank.

That's the only explanation for this.

Imagine describing Sir Alex Ferguson as the ex-Manchester United fan.

Yeah.

Sir Ralph Ramsey there, former England man, of course.

It's just one of the most subtly absurd things I've heard.

I mean, given that, like, ace is a essentially meaningless word in a football team, there's no reason you couldn't say, oh, there's fabric about it at former England days.

Obviously, it would sound mental,

but it's not like it has a logical meaning for a player either, particularly.

The England flop.

Yeah.

I mean, that would have been better.

I've just, I'm just, everything about this is great, and I'm just so relieved that at least one listener picked up on it and and tweeted it in because it was really important that people pick up on this stuff.

Next up, it's been a while since we've had politicians getting football wrong but the football governance bill has now been passed in the House of Commons and is poised to become law.

And Culture Secretary Lisa Nandi said this.

I am proud to be part of the winning team that has put our fans back on the pitch at the heart of the game where they belong.

That's the last place the government regulator is going to want the fans, Dave.

Don't put the fans on the pitch.

It's going to be the 80s all over again.

Chucking seats about.

They'll all get banned.

Yeah.

Honestly, part of the winning team, Charlie.

What's wrong with them?

What is wrong with them?

At least the fact that it was said sort of as live makes me think maybe she slightly misspoke.

The worst when it's put in like a press release or something.

And you think this would have gone through so many iterations.

Yeah.

Now, this is a speech.

This has been written.

She's got it in front of her.

She's got a piece of paper in front of her.

She has.

Yeah, maybe

she has written this.

What can we do?

What nice little flourish at the end?

You know, something to do with football.

What can we do?

But it's possible she slightly misread it.

Give me the benefit of the doubt.

I think the annoying thing about it is, like, the point of this whole thing is, like, broadly speaking, a pretty good thing.

Like, it's well-intentioned, and they want to do good stuff to protect football clubs and to actually help fans.

But...

Why do we need to do this bit at the end?

Why?

Why does it need to be done?

Why do we need to have some crap analogy at the end about putting fans on the pitch?

It doesn't

fill me with faith for the government regulator, I have to say.

They don't know ball, is what I'm saying.

Anyway, it wouldn't be the first half of July, Charlie,

if we weren't presented with a free agent 11, a list of the players who are there to be snapped up if clubs want them.

Here is the line-up.

In a 4-4-2, of course.

Lukas Fabianski in goal, Sergio Regilon at left back, Viktor Lindelof and Nelson Somedo.

Good to see one in that position.

Calabria at right back, Willian at right wing, Marco Verati and Luca Modric in central midfield, Lorenzo Insignia at left wing, and up front, Thomas Muller and Jamie Vardi.

In the unlikely event that one club signed all of these players at once, which club would that be?

And where do they all belong together?

I mean, I feel bad say it because it's such an easy answer, but look, someone like Galatasarai is just a bit the midpoint of this because I don't think it's quite Saudi.

Some of them are, but I don't think that as a collective, like some of them.

It's a scattergun for Saudi.

Yeah, it's A, it's too scattergun, but also some of the players I just think would be a bit jarring.

Yeah.

And I also, and as much as West Ham is then probably the other pole in that, I'm meeting a bit in the middle with Galatasarai.

And I think West Ham, even West Ham, some of these players, like, they don't, as much as we joke about West Ham, I can't really see them going out and getting like a Luca Modric.

No.

You know, that would be quite weird.

And I mean, like, Virati, again, is way more Saudi.

But, like, none of these players, if they were at Galatasarai, I mean, Vardi would jar a bit, but I can't imagine Jamie Vardi playing anywhere but Leicester.

Yeah.

But none of them would massively jar there, I don't think.

Galatassarai is a great shout here, Dave.

I mean, West Ham, West Ham Fabianske did play for West Ham, but otherwise, I could only see Regilon and Lindelof play for West Ham.

But Galatassarai,

I can actually imagine Vardi playing there.

He's probably the most outlandish of the 11.

Loves the passion.

Yeah.

Yeah, he does.

Imagine him on the wind-up in some of those derbies.

That would be amazing.

He would do the flag, wouldn't he?

He would kick it over and shuck it around.

I wondered whether, I mean, it's not perfect because there are a couple that might not quite fit this, but I don't think AC and Milan are far off this in their current sort of, you know, they're not into, they're sort of a few rungs below.

I could, you know, but there's a lingering sort of glamour to Syria that could tempt Modric or Muller to go over there.

There are a few Italians in the team, anyway.

You can't really see Vardi over there now, can you?

But I don't know.

I just, yeah.

I know what you mean.

It's a damning indictment of sort of where Milan are, but you're right.

There is definitely that element to them.

I mean, like Kyle Walker going there felt a bit like, oh, this is where sort of washed former stars go now.

My eyes are just drawn to Viktor Lindelof in the heart of this defence.

And I think he could literally play anywhere.

He has, in the most mundane way, the world at his feet, Charlie.

If

you sort of want to be a squad player of a variety of mid-ranking clubs, if that's the world, yeah.

More in the way that like a retiree has the world at their feet.

He can go anywhere he wants on a

cruise for the value.

You've got lots of time on your hands.

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Indeed, let's return to the Club World Cup, and here is Dazone demonstrating why this season's big broadcasting innovation, the half-time interview, is facing an uphill task.

But at the break here at the MetLive Stadium, Chelsea League Fluminense, buy a gold 1-0.

Let's go down to the touchline now because Alex Aljo has been getting the thoughts of Chelsea's Tosin.

Tosin, what a start for Jao Pedro.

What a goal that was.

Defensively, so good as well.

Yet to concede in the first half at this tournament.

How satisfied can you be with those first 45 minutes?

Yeah, fantastic.

Great finish from Jar, but we've still got 45 minutes to go.

What about the penalty decision relief that was overturned?

Yeah, of course.

Trevor Burrus, his hands by his side, so it was never a pen.

What's key now if you want to get to the final in this second half?

Just keep our focus, keep the intensity going, and we'll get the win.

How are you finding the conditions?

Tough, tough.

Good luck in the second half.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I mean, this is an easy dig, Dave, but I think this is a great showcase for why halftime is a terrible time for an interview.

They're in the zone.

They don't want to tempt fate for the rest of the game if they're winning.

They're pushed for time and they literally still have a job to do.

Don't ask them any questions.

The shortest of shrift there.

And what you can't see,

what we've just seen on the actual clip there, is he is out of shot before she's even finished saying the first word of her wrapping up, being thrown back to the studio.

He's out of there so quickly.

The sign of a great interview.

It really bodes well for next season, doesn't it, Charlie?

Yeah, he's probably like worried about, you know, like seizing up or like, you know, is this, do I really want to just be like standing talking?

I'm a bit out of my routine.

Yeah.

Yeah, you just feel completely out of place.

I need to get back to the lads.

I need to get back to them.

Yeah.

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We'll be back very shortly.

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Welcome back to Football Cliches.

This is the Midweek Adjudication Panel.

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We love making it and we hope you enjoy episode three of Dreamland, which is dropping soon.

Right, this came from Tim Postins.

And this is a good example of something that was a little bit too niche for listeners, Mez at Harland Dicks, but I really wanted to feature it anyway.

Here it is.

One thing I absolutely love is when there's a substitution made and the player coming on really wants to burst onto the pitch with that high energy, with a little sprint, with a little jump, with a little fake header when they first come on.

But the problem is the position they're playing is actually right by that touchline.

So they can't run on any distance whatsoever.

They have to basically just step onto the pitch and you always get the sense they're feeling like, oh, I really wish I could like, oh, I really want to have a burst and show some energy.

But they can't because they've got to to get straight into position as left back or left wing or whatever.

I love it.

Charlie, a classic example of something we were never going to get 10 minutes of chat out of, but just an incredible observation nonetheless.

Yeah, that's that's superb.

Yeah, I'm thinking, could you take like a go, go really far back to give yourself some room, like get into the tunnel, just leg it forward.

That's the way.

Just come speeding past the fourth official.

Where's he gone?

Come onto the pitch, sort of toward your own penotier and run up the wing.

That's the only place you could do it.

But yeah, I just, as soon as I heard this, Dave, I had just this vivid image of it happening

on a live TV game and just thinking, yeah, that totally must be quite frustrating for a player not to be able to sort of stretch his legs.

And you could foresee a situation where there's some analysis and characters saying, look, the sub, he's run on too fast.

He's gone to the middle of the pitch and he's out of position immediately.

Look, there, the ball comes down this side and he's out of position because he's run on too quick.

Just complete muscle memory.

Just ran into the middle of the pitch.

Abandoned his station.

Lovely stuff from Tim.

Next up, this came from Stuart Mack, who was reading an old Rangers' match report from 1887.

It was a game between some Rangers' old boys and their current team at the time.

It's from the Glasgow Herald.

And here's a little passage for you, Charlie.

The play on the whole was more amusing than scintillating.

And although the ancients, notably Dunlop and Valance, showed some of their old dash, they had to retire at the close of the first half.

A goal to the bad.

A goal to the bad.

Surely we're not having that, says Stuart Mack, albeit nearly 150 years too late.

Well, who are we to say what was had and what wasn't 150 years ago?

I mean,

I wonder when that was phased out and why, because it's no different.

I mean, gold to the good is there's no reason why gold to the good sounds anymore, it sounds natural.

Maybe a gold to the bad was the dominant form in the 1880s, Dave.

Who knows?

Exactly.

Maybe.

Gold to the bad.

Are you a glass half full or a glass half empty kind of guy?

I'm going to start using gold to the bad.

Oh, we're a gold to the bad again.

Tosin, you're a goal to the bad here at halftime.

How do you feel about that?

You what, mate?

What is this?

887?

I wonder what it would have taken to engage Tosin there.

Like, given how autopilot he was.

Like, he would not have flinched if you'd said a goal to the bad.

No.

No, no chance.

You would have had to say, I think you could have said pretty much anything and he wouldn't have picked up on it.

It'd be interesting if anyone's listening now and they've skipped the NordVPN section.

Hey, this is why you shouldn't.

Yeah.

You won't get the callbacks.

Exactly.

Listen to everything.

You'll never know what you're going to miss.

Next up, I'm starting to enjoy this recurring item, which was born from football's autopilot habit of adding up the ages of veteran centre-back partnerships.

Anyway, this week's ludicrous combined stat comes from James Kierton, who Charlie was reading a BBC article about why the world's super yachts are getting bigger and bigger.

Lots of data in there about sort of, you know, the increasing length of super yachts, and then suddenly, half of all super yachts continue to be built in Italy, with its yards currently working on a a combined length of 22,195 metres or approximately 22 kilometres, 13 miles of boats.

Do you know what it is as well?

It's sometimes like sometimes all you then want to do is work out kind of what one what the average is, what one is.

Like it's it serves the opposite purpose.

It makes it harder to conceptualize how big something is.

Like that's just a 13 miles of loads and loads of boats to me means kind of nothing.

I want to know, well what what's one?

What does one one of these boats sort of look like?

I can imagine one boat.

I can't imagine imagine 13 miles worth of, you know, it could be 30 and it wouldn't really mean anything to me.

It's quite an impactful stat, just, you know, you know, on its own.

You could run half a marathon across all the super yachts that are built in Italy.

I could try.

I'd have gone with tonnage myself.

I'd have gone with the weight of the boats rather than the length.

Good for the BBC to clarify that 22,195 meters is approximately 22 kilometres.

Appreciate that, BBC.

You learn everything every day.

Next up, Charlie, I know you're a fan of the established post-match interview opening gambit of Achievement X.

How does that sound?

Well, I don't know if you caught this at Wimbledon the other day.

Here's Mira and Draver.

Mira, congratulations.

You are now the youngest player to make it through to the quarterfinals at Wimbledon in 18 years.

How does that sound?

She had to take ages to think about it, so I don't know, really.

Good.

The 18 years years really wraps it off, doesn't it, Dave?

Yeah, it does, it's very nice.

There's there's something so quintessentially wimbledon about those on-court post-match interviews, it's such a strange thing because, in theory, they shouldn't really be much different from your standard sort of post-match interview in any sport.

But because

they take place on the court, and you've got that little moment where the interviewer is just waiting for them to sort of put all their rackets and their gears in their bag, and then they come down, they put the bags down.

Most of the people have stayed in.

There's people cheering like you've heard there.

It's amazing how all those little bits just make it so different to a football post-match interview when essentially the questions are pretty much the same sort of stuff, isn't it, really?

Yeah, I'm working on a story on this topic.

Also, tennis has the weird thing where the loser has to, after a final, has to stay on court and talk, which is kind of, you know, you don't get that.

Imagine if in football, the losing team had to stay on the pitch and like applaud as the team went up and hoisted the trophy and then do it all do interviews to the you know just be like i mean it would be like toastin yannick sinner you've lost wimbledon

but also the thing with that with the how does that sound construction it works if it's like uh something you're going to be known for forever like you know fa cup winner or you've just been given an ob e or something you know how does that sound it's like a it should in its core meaning it should be something that it's like you've now got something that no one can ever take away from you and you'll always have it like whereas something that tenuous is, I don't imagine Mira Andreva is always going to, you know, think that, oh, I remember when I became the youngest chords finalist in 18 years at Wimbledon in 2015.

It's close to the threshold for me.

Not even close.

It's the childhood dream stuff is how does that sound?

It's, you know, Charlie Eccleshare, most red writer on the New York Times 2024.

How does that sound?

At the very least, it needs to be a new personal status for your career

rather than just achieving a tenuous record.

Really important important stuff.

Good to get it right.

Now, this came from Coop17.

This is great to see the hypothetical consecutive hat-tricks debate spread across the globe and indeed across sports.

From Australia, this is the Fox Footy podcast.

That is something that is a perennial conversation across grade cricket circles.

And I think we may have even played this game before, Ben.

How many hundreds do you have to make from fourth grade consecutively to then play Test cricket?

There you go.

It encapsulates sports fans of any denomination, Dave.

Yeah.

I would like to have heard their conclusion, actually.

Yeah.

Is it comparable to our chat about hat-tricks or not?

I mean, 100 is probably quite approximate to scoring a hat-trick, Charlie.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But

cricket's so stat-driven, I feel like it might be slightly easier to quantify than R1.

Here's an ultra-modern transfer phenomenon for you.

Andy Naylor of the Athletic reported that Ben Barkley has rejoined Brighton as an overage player and mentor for the under-21s.

A 28-year-old former Academy defender at the club had spells in the lower divisions with Accrington, Stockport, Yeovil and Carlyle after leaving in 2019.

This is definitely an established phenomenon, isn't it, Charlie, this kind of signing of a player to kind of guide the under-21s.

It feels like the new conveniently British 38-year-old third-choice goalkeeper.

Perhaps even more wholesome than that.

I was going to say, yeah,

because that's where you used to think, you know, you'd have your Richard Wrights and Scott Carsons and people like that popping up.

Yeah, I mean, there are definite players you can imagine.

I mean, Conor Cody feels perfect for this at some point.

Is this for Wolves, I'd assume?

Yeah, I guess it would be.

Yeah, maybe not quite ready now, but yeah, like an Ernest Clubman, sort of perfect.

The Jean-Marc Bosman of all of this, I think, was Paul McShane, Dave, who signed for Man United in July 2021.

He was formerly a youth player.

They never sort of played for them.

That feels quite tenuous to be the sort of returning legend.

I can't have that anymore.

It sort of works because there is a connection.

And I think, you know, Manchester United as well, they're kind of the

youth player thing is such a big thing for Manchester United.

Even though Paul McShane didn't make any proper first-team impact at Manchester United, it's still sort of

he's still kind of, they're all welcomed back, aren't they?

All those former players are kind of welcomed back into the fold because they understand the United, you know, club DNA and all that stuff.

But I think this thing, I really do think it has to be a centre-back.

Maybe a defender if you want to riden it a bit, but I think because if you if you think about it, it's like an experienced centre-back is the best position to guide young, inexperienced players through a game.

If you've ever found yourself playing in a game with like an ex-pro or someone, if they're they can be old, they can't really run anymore, but they can just sit at centre-back, tell everyone else what to do, everyone else can cover their lack of pace, and they can see the game.

Whereas if if you had like a centre-forward, you can't get a striker doing this.

They're not looking after everyone else.

They're just focusing on the broken.

Jermaine Defoe just trying to puff up his goal scoring right now.

Shouting back to the centre-backs.

Yeah, it wouldn't work.

It doesn't work for strikers at all.

I've got a sort of list of suggestions for the big six clubs go-to man for this.

Tottenham feel quite well-stocked for this, Charlie.

I think Eric Dyer could go back and do it.

Ben Davis could eventually go back and do it.

Harry Winks could very conceivably become the overage player and they're under 23.

So I don't know why Spurs are so good for this.

Yeah, I mean, Winks, I think Davis is perfect as well because Winks,

not that it really mattered, but he left and kind of, you know, he stopped getting game time and all of that.

And it maybe got a bit sour.

Whereas Davis has just been the ultimate stalwart character.

And like, you know, he's really friendly with everyone.

He, you know, he wouldn't even have to go for long.

And then he could.

you know, he'd have barely been gone and then he just pops back and it's like he's never left.

You know, you just, you want him in the building.

Man City, conversely, Dave, don't feel like they've got a lot of candidates for this.

I mean, because they just keep signing 50 million pound sort of continentals and no one sort of puts down the roots that I feel that you need for this.

So the only player I could think of was Alexander Zinchenko.

I feel like he's got the character for it.

That's quite a good shout.

And also like he's a technical leader and that's sort of the currency at Man City, isn't it?

He was always like, oh, you know, for all the stars, the best player technically is actually Zinchenko.

And he scored in the Guardiola way as well.

Yeah, yeah.

I did notice that

I think anyway, I wasn't quite clear according to his Wikipedia page, but there was some suggestion that Fernandinho might still be playing at the age of 40 in Brazil.

And I could sort of see him doing it.

Yeah, Fernandino's a good shout.

I also thought that in an alternate universe, if his career hadn't fallen away in the way that it did and he hadn't burst onto the scene as a pundit, Micah Richards could have had this sewn up.

That would have been absolutely perfect.

Chris Smalling at Manchester United.

Adam Lalana at Liverpool.

That doesn't work, does it?

He needs to be a son of a man.

He's retired, hasn't he?

Yeah, that's yeah, it could bring him out of retirement to just do this job.

Just do this.

Yeah, because I feel like at that stage of your career, if you're of that personality, Charlie, you've got two options: go back and be the overage player in the under-23s or go and become the loan manager.

Which sounds like a great job.

Just ringing up loan either saying, hey, doing, mate, you're right.

That's what Johnny Evans has just done at Man United.

He's taking

the loans manager role.

It's definitely the.

I mean,

he's been long since retired, but one of the guys who's what Dave was describing about playing like a with a legend game.

I mean, Per Murtesaka basically did that in an FA Cup final.

He barely hadn't played pretty much all season, came in, played centre-back in the middle of a three, aged, looked about 40, and didn't move, but like did a job on Costa and just talked everyone through it.

And obviously, he's actually like the academy manager at Arsenal, but he would have been so the guy, you know, that everyone looks up to and respects.

Great talker, great sort of manager of young people.

I think this is quite a wholesome development, actually, because it means you can do your badges at the same time,

earn yourself a reputation for being, you know, good at nurturing young talent.

I think it's positive development, this.

Is there an element to it of, because I think when like Man United signed Johnny Evans, it's like he wasn't signed as like the under-21's mentor player like Paul McShane was, but there was an element of like, we need a backup player and you know, we know him.

He used to play for us.

We'll sign him back again.

And then he obviously ended up playing way more than they probably anticipated so i think some of these players you kind of want that just that little two percent chance that yes they could end up in extremists of playing in a game if we really needed them to in a proper first team game and i i wondered um for arsenal whether carl jenkinson could be this

who's still playing at bromley he's 33.

oh wow okay yeah bit two competition winner i don't know how much i mean like because Arsenal used to do it, they would bring...

He's got a heft about him, does he?

Yeah, like, Perez would pop back, or they'd have, like, or Layman.

Do you remember Lehman came back and actually played a game against Blackpool?

Yeah, goalkeepers could do this, I think.

I don't mind a goalkeeper doing this, I have to say.

What a lovely discussion this was.

Okay.

Finally, here's Rob Dowie with some football mentality creeping into general life.

His story is as follows.

I was in Asda doing a small shop.

I picked up a basket on entry, but the items I needed were at the far end of the store.

Passing the fruit and veg first, I decided to go off list and put some peppers in my basket, ultimately to avoid walking several aisles with an empty basket.

I instantly felt more at home in the shop and in my head I likened it to an under-pressure goalkeeper getting an early touch or routine save, eating myself into the game and settling the nerves.

I mean there are two things here.

First of all the football analogy here Charlie I'm not massively on board with but I do I appreciate the fact that he sent it in and if that's how he felt then then I'm my heart is warmed.

But the more pertinent thing for me here is walking around a supermarket with an empty basket is a crap feeling.

You want to get something in there, don't you?

So you do want an early touch.

You do want that first tackle, just something.

But, Dave, if you go for something that's going to rattle around in the basket, that makes it even worse.

If you go for a single pepper, that's just going to bounce around inside the basket while you walk around.

Don't like it.

Yeah,

I think I would like a bit more too.

Yeah, because the feeling of having an empty basket wouldn't be a good one.

I think it's like, for me, it would be like playing in a proper 11-aside match without shin pads.

I would feel exposed.

I need something in there just to weigh me down a little bit.

You just feel like a weird kind of fraud walking around a supermarket with an empty basket.

It's like, what have I got this for?

And then you realise you didn't need one after all.

You could have carried it yourself.

Oh, dear.

Bag of pasta, I reckon, is a good first item.

Good ballast.

It's not going to roll around.

You know, and make it awkward.

But as Rob points out, like, the fruit and veg is the first thing you go past.

You can't go straight to the pasta section.

Bananas would do the job.

Just get some grapes.

You're always going to want grapes.

Yeah.

Punnet.

Punnett of strawberries.

Weird discussion, and that's how we're going to end things.

Thanks to you, Charlie Equil Share.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

And that's it for the midweek adjudication panel.

We'll be back on Tuesday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

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