Woke metrics, Erling Haaland's Pro Evo name & our niche England predictions

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I'm I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gas going on out of crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, he's there!

Brilliant!

Got it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd, and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eye without a shadow of a doubt getting him lit.

Oh, I say!

It's amazing!

He does it tame, and tame, and tame again.

Break up the music!

Charge a glass!

This nation is going to dance all night!

Woke units of on-pitch measurement.

Pro-Evo Erling Haaland on pointless.

Wilfred Zaha confronts some modern footballing discourse head-on.

Why Patrick Schick refuses to turn provider?

Our niche predictions for England versus Albania and Latvia.

The Leonor Messi of acting, imagining the joy of discovering football for the first time, treating your pants draw like a squad rebuild, the lack of competition for supermarket pizza merchants, and a glorious ice hockey clichés tribute.

Brought to your ears by Gohanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés.

I'm Adam Hurry and with me today, first of all, is Charlie Eccleshaire.

How you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Alongside you is Nick Miller.

How things?

Oh, very well.

Good to have you.

Charlie, Sama Binla, got in touch on Reddit.

He said, I was disappointed that Premier League Years enthusiast Charlie couldn't remember Kenny Dalgleash's Newcastle United being referred to by Georgie Thompson as Dalgleash's dad's army on Premier League Years.

Let's hear a clip of that.

Signing on at St.

James's Park, Stuart Pierce.

Dalgleash's dad's army, they called it, as Ian Rush and John Barnes were acquired.

I was saying on the the last episode, I knew there was a Premier League one, and this is perfect.

And it's even better the fact that it's not just in the moment calling it Dad's Army, but a year on or whenever this was filmed and recorded, to then retrospectively call it a Dad's Army is even better.

Also on Tuesday's episode, Nick, we were discussing whether the engine room in midfield relates to the players or the environment in which they're operating.

The consensus was that

it was the place, it was the area of midfield in which the players operate that is the engine room and they're just operating in the engine room but uh game of throw-ins writes in and says not often i disagree with all three of you but i'm pretty sure you were off on the engine room discourse surely the midfielders normally a two-man midfield are themselves the engine room of the team i think your listener was right in the first place nick can you sort this out for us yeah well i mean i i did actually think this as i was listening on um on tuesday you can call two players in midfield the midfield, can't you?

So why not they can be the engine room?

I mean, I'm I'm by now, Charlie I'm not averse to being corrected on this podcast but I couldn't believe how adamant we were that this was the case I'm glad I didn't go in harder that's all I'm saying it is one of those that slightly lost all meaning for me now though because we talked about it so much I now I can't really even remember no I did I do think I originally yeah as I said I thought it what I and I still kind of think that maybe it could be either but like you I think you do talk about in the engine room you know it's one of those but you want you want him in the engine room I can imagine that being said.

I don't know anymore.

But I don't know anymore.

I think you would say you want him in the engine room.

I don't think think you necessarily say you want him to be the engine room.

Right.

Okay.

To be part of the engine room.

I think that would sound weird.

I don't think you can have a one-man engine room or one-person engine room.

That's too much.

No,

since it's multiple, you know.

Yeah, not even in Golo Cante would be a one-man engine room.

No, it's all hands to the pump, isn't it?

And you need at least two pairs of hands for the pump.

Right.

But let's get on to

new matters, new territory.

Let's wipe the slate clean.

This first one came from Amir, who was listening to the Blood Red Liverpool podcast.

John Aldridge was the guest, and they were talking about the ongoing struggles of Darwin Nuniers.

And Aldridge, the game's gone for him in this respect.

You know, the easiest thing for a footballer is to work hard.

The hardest thing is to score goals, create goals, and play well.

The easiest thing is to go out there and for like 90 minutes or whatever,

run 10 miles or

kilometres or whatever they do this day and age.

Kilometers are newfangled, apparently.

This is a man who's played on the continent, Nick.

Woke nonsense.

Are kilometers woke, Charlie?

It's true that it is slightly odd that kilometres are always the go-to measurement when we see how far footballers have run

when miles would ordinarily outside of football, you know, be the go-to.

Looks more impressive, Nick, because, you know,

you get more kilometers for your buck, don't you?

Yeah, but I always kind of overcompensate with it.

It was like, what is it?

It's like fluctuating currency conversions what's that it's two to two dollars to the pound isn't it yeah no no actually it's not that anymore it's really expensive in america these days hang on what yeah you're spot on kilometers are dollars absolutely right um so in that respect i do sympathize with john oldridge this next one came from paul tuesday's episode of pointless on bbc one uh the contestants were presented with some pictures of celebrities born in the year 2000 along with their initials now it's not that this contestant gets this wrong it's just that he gets it wrong in such a completely pro-evo way could be a snag i don't know who anybody is there do you

know i know c's a footballer and i don't do football so i think it's elland harkson i'm gonna go okay was it elland huxon so we have elland huxon julia and mike went for elland huxon let's see if that is right for see

I'm afraid, no, you got the right initials.

That's great.

Always one of the lower key joys of pointless, Nick, is when Alexander Armstrong has to read back a quite obviously wrong answer back to the contestant, even he knows is wrong.

And he said it in quite a keysy way, which I quite liked as well.

Yeah, there's a sort of

very sort of faint whiff of passive aggression about it.

You've gone with Ellen Harkson.

Sure, yeah.

Interesting answer.

Interesting answer.

Let's see if that's correct.

The poise of Ellen Harks and Charlie is, as Paul points out, is very pro-evo.

It is just about the right amount of corruption of the name.

Yeah, I really enjoy when I see, i i'll often in the way that people have the footballers names and things i'll quite often do pro-evo player names and things when i'll see a name that looks like exactly like an eland harkson a slight bastardization of a person's name be that footballer be that a friend of mine absolutely i really like it ellen harkson that's a golfer's name isn't it ellen harkson i third or something

but oh okay so you're going for the american i thought so so he's on the american side of the of the rider cup scenario so i think so yeah okay so scandinavian heritage but yeah actually

Okay, all right, fair enough.

Now, this is the first time I'd ever seen a footballer confront this concept.

Never seen a footballer talk about it, really.

Wilfred Zaha, who is on loan at MLS side Charlotte FC from Galatasarai, which is an absurd like state to be in anyway, put up an Instagram story the other day, Nick, saying, I've got to make this clear, just because you haven't been fortunate to play for top clubs doesn't mean you're not a top player.

So please, I'm just a baller and always will be.

So don't put me in streets will never forget.

This is a player rejecting that he's a streets never forget player.

Now, I've got, I've got, I don't want to tackle whether Zaha is streets will never forget he isn't, but it's great to see footballers taking this head on.

Yeah, and you can, you can kind of see, you can definitely see why, because it is a sort of, yeah, you were, you were good, but ultimately you did nothing, didn't you?

So I'm glad that they're engaging with this, or this one specific player is engaging with it.

And in such a kind of, I don't know, I can't quite figure out the method he's gone with to do this.

I can't figure out if it's like a sort of LinkedIn post kind of pasted onto an Instagram story kind of thing.

The format is just incomprehensible.

It is weird.

And it does beg the question, like, what is who's right at the cut-off point?

And I think it's fair enough because there is something a bit, there's something very condescending about Streets Will Never Forget.

Definitely.

On that note, then, Charlie, I'd never conceived the idea before that players might be out there quite anxious about them being on the threshold of it.

I've gone to Charlotte.

Are people going to think, oh,

this feels like quite a Streets Will Never Forget sort of move.

But yeah, I mean, like, would Yannick Balassi, would he be, you know, Zaha's former teammate at Palace?

Would he be

in Brazil?

Will he never forget?

Yeah.

Wow.

I think it might even be on his second Brazilian club.

That's great.

I mean, that is Streets Will Never Forget.

I think he's on.

I think he is on that.

He passes that threshold.

I think so.

Zaha's certainly not.

He's Premier League elite.

There's no problem there.

Right.

over the last sort of couple of seasons or so, Nick, I think there's been a huge focus on the concept of goal involvements.

And we haven't found a more elegant way of describing it.

Mohamed Salah this season obviously become you know incredible case study for goal involvements.

His assists are taking almost as much of the limelight as his goals.

But Elden Hasich writes in, says what's the record most goals scored in a season without an assist?

Patrick Schick is taking the centre forward's sole job being to score goals literally.

He scored 25 goals this season without a single assist.

He doesn't give a shit about goal involvement.

Yeah, I really like this kind of thing.

It also just reminds me of, I don't know, did you ever

like either at Sunday League or at school or something, they ever play with someone who was like, look, I'm a striker.

My job is a striker.

I'm not doing anything else.

I remember one lad I played with refused to

make a run outside of what he defined his designated striker zone.

So he's like, look, you know,

between the width of the post.

Yeah, exactly.

It was that.

Yeah.

It was like, look, you're playing on the left.

That's that's your ball.

And it's like, Jesus crushed me.

But this is the kind of the ultimate extension of that, I suppose.

I mean, Cristiano Ronaldo had some seasons

towards the end at United.

You know, that in 07-08, where it went crazy, suddenly scored 31 goals.

I think he got like six or seven assists, which isn't bad, but it was sort of

a little bit.

It was, yeah, you're kind of like at that point, you know, there was a small part of your goal involvement.

And when he came back, you got 18 goals and three assists in this one sort of main season.

I instinctively thought of this, Nick.

I was going to describe it as kind of a throwback, Patrick Schick, just doing his job and not caring about assists.

But is that a particularly old-fashioned thing, like strikers not turning provider?

I feel like that's that's always been part of their job.

It's justn't a newfangled thing for them having to drop deep and get involved or even just, you know, flick on across.

Yeah, you got

the old-fashioned centre-forward who, you know, holds the ball up and all all that kind of thing.

So, yeah, it's not particularly newfangled.

And maybe John Aldridge would go absolutely mental at this quick idea.

I don't think the doing it is newfangled.

The caring about it and the sort of listing of it is, yeah.

Yeah, that being that part of their remit, like, you know, pointedly.

Did Gerd Muller get any assists?

Like, you know, where does the poacher assist

get drawn?

Philippe Owenzaghi, not a big assistman.

Yeah.

I wonder if it would have changed, though, how some players were viewed.

Someone like Alan Smith, who didn't, he wasn't prolific, was he?

But he probably did get a fair few assists because he was quite like a nod-down man, which might have then changed it because his goal involvements then would have been half decent.

And also, you know, of course, we're overlooking the fact that they used to be, you know, strike partnerships used to be the de facto situation.

So they would have picked up assists all over the place.

Sutton and Shearer all over again.

But yeah, Nick, he's the only player in the top 30 league goal scorers in Europe's big five leagues not to have an assist.

That's actually that makes him something of an anomaly.

Quite like it.

Do you think he wants to keep the run going?

Was it

how would you how would you do that?

I mean, we just you just wouldn't pass?

Don't do it.

Don't shoot!

Deliberately pass to your colleagues on the wrong foot, maybe?

I don't know.

I've dug deep into this, Charlie.

Controversially, Transfer Marked had him down as producing an assist in Leverkusen's 2-2 draw against Verda Bremen in October, but his cross was shinned into his own net by Felix Zagu.

So I'm not having that as an assist.

You can't assist an own goal, can you?

No, Opta don't count.

Right.

You don't get assists for own goals.

That's good.

Sometimes I think unfairly, but yeah, you don't.

Yeah, like spiritually, you've done the hard work, but yeah, you haven't created an own goal, have you?

He was also given an assist in the DFB Pocal semi-final against Fortuna Dusseldorf last season, Nick.

But that was a scuffed shot that just fell to Jeremy Frimpong.

So I'm not having that as an assist either.

This is getting into Andrew Postacogu territory here.

Assist being the most pointless.

Yeah, I completely agree.

He did, however, set up Victor Bonnyface against Dortmund in December 2023, Charlie, which is 473 days ago.

His assist drought.

Yeah.

I wonder if this is a thing.

I mean, presumably,

if there is discourse, which there must be around him and the team, then surely people have strong opinions on it.

Yeah, it should be a column in this.

The only nearest challenger that Eldin Hasich could find for this, Nick, was Benny McCarthy for Blackburn back in 2006-07.

18 goals, no assists.

And he strikes me as the sort of player who kind of of would be that sort of mold.

Yeah, between the sticks, a finisher, not necessarily known for his sort of channel running, necessarily, was he?

Yeah, and also in a comment at how Blackburn did in that season, but not a kind of team with a lot of other goal scorers in it, maybe.

Yeah, okay.

But yeah, I would love to know if anyone's going to beat Patrick Schick, who's on 25 goals, zero assists.

Speaking of continental strikers, the news emerged this week that Kevin Gamero has retired.

And

what better tribute to Kevin Gamero could there be than us throwing back to classic episode Pure Europa League 11?

So, up front, this is the fun bit and perhaps the most clear-cut part of our team of all.

First up, James Kevin Gamero.

Yes.

Neil Bates writes and says, part of that Sevilla team who won it 17 times in a row, then went on to win it with Atletico.

I also remember him doing well against English teams and therefore becoming a perennial target for your West Hams, your Newcastles, and your Evertons.

And I have to say, it is astonishing that he didn't play for Everton.

All of that really does put him in the sweet spot, doesn't it?

And I can't, I mean, he must have played in the Champions League, but I just can't picture it.

Do you know what Kevin Guerro looks like?

Only because I looked at his Wikipedia page in Rumor.

I refused to do it just so I could keep that going.

I don't want to ever know what Kevin Guevara looks like.

How many caps has he got?

He's French, right?

How many caps has he got?

I mean, I just know nothing about him beyond the context of him occasionally turning up, like, you know, when I'm checking your Opal E scores on a Thursday night.

He just, that's just where he exists in my mind he's 13 France caps I'm told I mean I mean that's not terrible they're not short of decent strikers France are they but you know clearly not good enough to uh earn a regular place or get any minutes at any tournament so right done and dusted Kelly Gamero saw it in right over to the England scene now Nick Dan Byrne fairly inevitably is on record as saying he thought his England call-up was a wind up his week just continues to give and I'm extending his week for as long as it needs to go is the perfect like category of player that A, he's old.

B, he hasn't from a humble background, footballing background as well.

But also, there hasn't been, I know that it's been a lot of, you know, there's no left backs in the available or whatever.

But there hasn't been enough of like a, I don't know whether it's clamour territory, but there hasn't been enough, there hasn't been enough discussion about him in the England team for it to be kind of inevitable or unexpected.

So it is, it's in the perfect thought, it was a wind-up territory, isn't it?

I love that caveat there, Charlie, that Nick gave of, you know, our potential dearth of options at left fag.

I love the idea that Dan Byrne might be weighing that up as he reads the text.

Going, wow,

we aren't producing the same numbers anymore.

He's also, his whole vibe is kind of outsider, unconventional.

So, yeah, this, this, this is perfectly on brand.

He said, when I got the message from the Eagle manager, I thought it was a wind-up.

I had to go away and check it was legit.

Dan Byrne, the 20th player to be called up since John Solarco in 1991 to claim he believed his called up was a wind-up.

Just great to see that tradition extending into a new manager's reign.

There's going to be a manager one day who bans it, bans all talk of it.

Because where's the self-belief?

It's going to be

sports.

It's like I talked to a sports psychologist about what it says about the players.

True.

I think it's a thing.

Definitely.

I'm interested.

I don't know if he talks about this before, but I'm interested in the verification process.

Yeah.

But I was just going to say, I had to go away and check it.

Yeah.

How's he doing that?

Does he, I mean, is it like, does he go to, I don't know, who else?

Who has his most trusted Newcastle teammate who definitely should be in the squad?

Yeah.

Anthony Gordon.

Yeah, Anthony Gordon, does he ask Nick Pope, is this really the right number?

Robbing the other.

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

I mean, first of all, you do, don't you, when you get like a spam from Royal Mail or whoever it is, you know, you check the sender, does the number look dodgy?

I mean, I wonder if he, you know, did he, did he have his number?

You know, because that would be your first thing, wouldn't it?

Then you would think it was a wind-up.

Phones are clever these days.

It comes up as a suspected spam if you get a call from a proper spam.

So, you know, you know, an extra layer of security for England call up.

A suspected England manager

singing the national anthem down the line oh that can't be him

yes but england are now preparing for their double header of world cup qualifiers against albania and latvia at wembley nick um let's deal with england albania first specifically england three albania nil how do we think it's going to go i think anthem watch will be a thing for about 15 seconds

You know, even though we know where we stand with it,

the camera will still be on Tuchel, not singing it.

Presumably Matterface, who will be the commentator will make some kind of wry reference about how he's dealing with the Anthem Gate.

Yeah, I'm still fully on board with his approach for it.

Dan Byrne's scoring on his England debut, Charlie, is too absurd.

I can't have it.

His fortnight can't get it.

What a fortnight.

I can't have it.

What a fortnight, he said.

No, I think it will be after initial excitement.

It will then be quite a slow start and it will reach a point after 15, 20 minutes of like, hasn't really got going yet, has it?

As they sort of reflect on the fact that nothing's happened.

Harry Kane penalty will be the first goal of the Thomas Tuchel reign, Nick, within the first half an hour or so, and Sam Matterface will say, lift off.

If this doesn't happen, that's it.

I don't know anything about football anymore.

Is it too low-key?

No, no, of course it isn't.

A little defensive mix-up between Levi Colwell and Jordan Pickford will cause some brief alarm.

The England correspondents having something to latch onto as a question marker for Thomas Tuchel.

I don't think we're quite at the stage of the sort of the Jordan Pickford Dean Henderson thing where

the camera would cut Henderson on the bench.

It's not quite Penny for his thoughts territory yet, is it?

No.

But it might, but it might be if

Henderson made a few ricks in the game, maybe.

I don't know.

Oh, he'll definitely mix up the goalkeepers over the course of the two games.

I mean,

they're qualified, so nobody's coming on at half-time, but I can see an unexpected start for Dean Henderson.

At half-time against Albania, Charlie, if, as you say, things start slightly slowly, what will Lee Dixon want to see from England?

I just wanted to move the ball a bit quicker.

That's all you want.

It's everything.

I mean, we have been like, yeah, we've been wanting England to move the ball quicker for basically my whole lifetime.

Yeah.

Probably before then as well.

Just keep doing it.

Move it a bit quicker.

A few days later, Nick will be England for Latvia-nil at Wembley.

Morgan Rodgers' first England goal, I think, is coming in these two games.

Is he starting?

Is this a kind of off-the-bench?

I think he'll start against Latvia.

Little cameo against the Albanians and then earns a star against Latvia.

And that goal, Charlie will earn him man of the match alone

and a humble interview after I can see all that I think you're right I think um and there'll be an injury scare won't there yeah who will hobble off causing alarm for their domestic manager I had Declan Rice for this I thought it might be maybe drew bellingham in the first game

he's perpetually almost injured though that's the thing

he'll he'll go off after about an hour of the first game it'll be nothing serious but he'll miss the set he'll go back to Madrid and miss the second game anyway okay so yeah two wins out of two Charlie but of course,

stir the test away.

What's the threshold for job done?

You know, 2-0 win or something like that.

Yeah, a couple of cliches.

But job done.

Or even so far, so good.

Yeah.

You know, after a couple of comfortable wins.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

Early days, but.

Ross FJ writes in, and he told me a few days ago, no mention on football clichés for a year.

So that's two in two for you now, Ross FJ.

He says, how long does an international manager have in regards to a honeymoon period?

And can you have an international manager bounce?

I don't think it exists in international football, does it, Charlie?

The bounce?

I think you can have it.

Really?

Yeah.

Why do you think not?

Just because there aren't so many games in a short space of time?

Yeah, I just think the whole thing is just so drawn out.

I mean, new managers can come in and have an impact straight away, but there's too much build-up.

You just, you don't come straight in and have a game is what I'm saying.

You can't really, it doesn't really have that tangible kind of, it's really raised the players in the last couple of days.

There's that, yeah.

I mean, but some do.

I mean, weren't um, it can occasionally happen teams change a manager mid-tournament, which obviously, you know, didn't, um, was it the Ivory Coast

won the most recent AFCON with a mid-management change?

That's true.

MS Faye.

Yeah,

talk about a new manager bounce.

Yeah, I can't argue with that.

That's absolutely sure.

As for the honeymoon period, Nick, I mean, England, apart from, say, Serbia away, I don't think England have a on-paper tough test in this calendar year.

So we could be looking at a good full year of honeymoon period for Thomas Tuchel, if we play our cards right.

He was already getting alters before he started the job.

Is he even going to get any honeymoon period?

Yeah, other matters could eat into his honeymoon period, of course.

Or is it just on-pitch matters, Charlie, that dictates your honeymoon period?

Because it's a big defeat that ends it, right?

Yeah.

Uninspiring performances, just generally?

Yeah, maybe.

I don't see it though.

I think England will be World Cup qualifying.

England will win 10 out of 10 or whatever it is.

It'll be fine.

Yeah, I think it's too inconsequential for that to really end.

Okay.

Final note on the international break.

Sky Sports News said that Christian Erickson Nick expects to leave Manchester United at the end of the season.

The Danish midfielder revealed nothing has been decided yet, but his contract expires in the summer.

Now, we told this to Scandinavian, presumably TV station TV2.

And am I imagining this?

Are all these particular types of semi-announcements always made when players are away on international duty?

Is it just like they're away and think, well, if I say this, nobody will know back home.

I'm just going to say it.

Exactly.

I think that's that.

There is a genuine thing that

players think I'm talking in Danish here.

So

there's no way this is going to get translated and be and be disseminated back to the country i play in so i really want this to be true i really want it to be true i think as well they are just a lot more relaxed and comfortable with people they know a bit better so they are more at ease and there's probably an extent to which they are a bit like more trust i can't be i can't be bothered to be like to just give them platitudes like yeah i can actually speak a bit more freely yeah it's got sort of bitching when you're away from i don't know from your family or work you can speak more freely i don't know um but yeah, okay, that could well be it.

Right, that brings us to the end of part one.

We'll be back very shortly.

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Oh, look at that!

That is wonderful!

Right, this episode is brought to you in association with NordVPN.

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It secures your connection, protecting your personal information and online activity, especially on public Wi-Fi.

A VPN can also make your phone or laptop appear as if it's in another country, which is great for accessing content while traveling.

I just realised I said laptop like laxative, Charlie, like Andy Campbell.

Anyway, Samuel Peterson got in touch.

Here is Graeme Lassow on Co-Comms for NBC in the 94th minute of Arsenal 1 Chelsea Neil the other day.

Gabrielle nods a harmless kin and Dewsbury Hall crossback to David Ryer, milks the applause of the Emirates, and Graeme Lasseau has had enough.

Here's Dewsbury Hall.

Are we moving into a period of football where every time a player does anything, they expect to get a standing ovation from the crowd?

I sincerely hope not.

Joe Spate there, there, I think, is on comms diplomatically batting this away, Charlie.

I was waiting for a co-commentator to crack about this.

Well, because it's not very becoming for a defender as well, that they should just get on with it.

It's becoming a little bit tenuous, some of these situations, though.

Like, I feel like the bar for G-ing up the crowd has been lowered in the last few weeks alone.

Well, certainly that is true.

And a friend of mine was messaging me about this.

Kind of, yeah, what's the threshold?

Yeah.

When can you be G-ing them up?

Like, does it depend on your status within the team?

Does it matter

the match state, the opponent, all of that?

Like, there are some rules.

There are sometimes you see it and you are a bit like,

is that the right to do that?

Um, someone asked Nick if we should do a g-ing up the crowd 11, like a generic one.

I'm all for that.

But the thing is, Graham Lasseau would be in the very top percentiles for this if he was playing now.

I'm really convinced that he would be a

prolific G-ing up of the crowder.

Yeah, and also he would be in the very specific scenario, the looking very pleased with himself after a neat header back to the goalkeeper kind of thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, yeah.

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Right, next up, this came from Daniel Lewis.

This is Ailey Barber on BBC final score duty last weekend for Manchester City versus Brighton, as Carlos Boliba puts a golden chance over the bar to win it for the visitors.

Unbelievable chance, and Carlos Boliba saw his name in absolute lights, but he blasted.

This is a great absoluting, Nick.

I really, really like it.

Absolutely sensational.

A superb addition to it.

I absolutely love that.

It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't matter.

It really enhances it, Charlie, as well.

Absolute lights.

Yeah, that's great.

You know, given the magnitude of the miss as well, it was more than presentable as well.

I think absolute lights really sums it up.

Yeah, all for absoluting.

We're yet to see a completely unacceptable absoluting on the podcast, and long may that continue.

Billy Backhouse writes in next, Nick, and says, My club Reading sit eighth in league one, two points adrift of the playoffs.

Recent BBC match reports describe us variously as playoff chasers, hopefuls, and contenders.

Are these synonyms, or are they different points along a scale of how realistic our playoff ambitions are?

So for extra context, yeah,

they are two points off Huddersfield who are sixth.

So they're in the mix.

But I think chasing chasing is fine.

Hopefuls?

I mean, you could be lower and be hopefuls, couldn't you?

Yeah,

I think they're in the perfect sweet spot for chasers.

Hopefuls, you're right.

I would.

So Leighton Orient are three points beneath them.

I think

that might be the kind of threshold for hopefuls.

They're not contenders, I don't think.

I think do you need to be in the playoff places to be contenders?

I would allow a little bit of a looser interpretation than that.

But hopeful, certainly, Charlie, has to be more than just mathematics, right?

Yeah, I think so.

But I also think chasers does imply a degree of momentum.

You know, I don't think you'd say it about a team who was in a really bad run of form and were seventh or eighth.

Yeah, Leighton Orient have lost four of the last five.

So you couldn't really call them playoff chasing Leighton Orient, could you?

Exactly.

I think they do need a bit of upward momentum to hit the chasers.

Only two wins in the last five for Reading themselves, Nick.

So whilst they're still chasing and presumably still hopeful, maybe their contenders label

is up for serious contention.

Yeah, that works.

It does.

Okay, Billy Backhouse, please be reassured.

Right, next up, Gifu Damio gets in touch on Blue Sky Charlie.

And he was watching highlights of Leicester versus Manchester United on MUTV.

And the commentator said the ball had been squirreled clear just before Carnatic doubled Manchester United's lead.

Crossfield ball finds Diogo DeLowe brilliantly.

DeLow attacking in the penalty area gets a right-footed shot away.

Falls to Rasmus Hoyland, who can't bring it under control.

Squirreled clear by Leicester, picked up by Noose Masrawi.

I've got a really vivid image of what squirreling clear would mean.

It's a little bit like when a fullback has to deal with a cross coming from the other side and they have to sort of smuggle it behind.

I think squirreling is a little bit like that.

There's an inelegance to it, but also quite tricky.

Yeah.

Like a little jab because they can't get a proper contact on it.

I don't think it goes particularly far in those sort of awkward situations.

And crucially, Nick, as well, on top of that, it can't be aimed at anybody.

Like it's just getting the ball away, squirreling.

Even if we were to allow it into the lexicon, squirreling has to be a fairly aimless pursuit, surely.

Yeah, and it can't be, you can't actually kick the ball very far.

You either have to,

you can't like no more than about five yards, I would have thought.

You can't squirrel a ball a long way up the the pitch, can you?

Squirrel it.

Squirrel it.

Anywhere will do.

Actually, on that point, I don't think anywhere does do for squirrels, though, Charlie.

They know exactly where they want to put things.

Like,

they're not just scattering stuff.

They're putting it either in their, what's the squirrel's home called?

Nest.

I don't know.

Oh, I don't know.

But yeah, I mean, for hibernation purposes, they know exactly where things have to go.

So they're less aimless than perhaps I'm giving them credit for.

A dre, apparently.

Is that right?

Oh, there you go.

Cool.

It's always something weird for them, isn't it?

I know.

I realise I'm stepping in and taking literally Dave to the extreme here, but the kind of peak of scrolling will be a player who just pops the ball on his cheek and runs away with it.

Yeah, and then, yeah, the new curl on, perhaps.

The squirrel dribbler.

Right.

Everyone has been lauding this new Netflix drama with praise.

I haven't seen any bad words said about it.

Adolescence on Netflix, which is causing something of a moral panic as well.

And Owen Cooper, who plays the

kid at the center of this storm in the story, has been dubbed the Lionel Messi of acting, Charlie.

And now, whenever you see a dubbing like this occur, you must always ask, who has dubbed him this?

And has it just snowballed out of nowhere?

Because it does feel like one that someone has just said in a throwaway podcast or something, and then that's it's been latched onto.

And do we know?

I mean,

who has dubbed him this?

The good news is, it's come from a solid source.

It's from his co-star, co-star Ashley Walters who is speaking exclusively to the Metro and at first when I heard this quote I thought it was just a throwaway line but then he's a generational talent man it's like

the the Lionel Messi of the of the acting game it's true it's like it's you watch him and you're like I don't I don't get how you're doing this like without hardly any life experience and like how are you finding these emotions and these pockets and these places and he's doing it all naturally, you know.

He's acting in the pockets.

Finding those little half spaces.

I love that.

So there's implying that not only is there kind of a precocious talent there, Charlie, but he's producing sort of nuanced little sort of elements in the pockets, which is what Messi would have been doing.

So maybe it works better than it does on Face Value.

This actor also doesn't really do anything for the first three minutes of a scene.

He just sort of like wanders around, just sort of scoping, but then he just suddenly engages.

It's incredible.

Yeah, what's not tracking back in acting terms?

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, fair play as well, because I would have thought his age might have meant that, you know, rather than Messi, whoever was describing might go for the kind of the youth element, you know, sort of prodigiously talented footballer, you know, the Wayne Rooney of the Lamin Yamal of actors.

Lemin Yamal.

Yeah, I was thinking that.

I just, I don't know if that would have the same kind of cutthroat.

I mean, if anything, you're probably going too niche with Yamal, actually, Nick, because I get the distinct sense from Ashie Walters, he's not a football man, just from the the pronunciation of Messi alone and that's fine if that's the name you're going for that's absolutely fine but now I'm definitely more inclined to watch it now I seem to be the only person who hasn't done it yet meanwhile speaking of Leonor Messi Nick after his latest effort for inter Miami over the head of Brad Guzan of Atlanta in MLS the other night of his 855 career goals 48 of them have now been dinks and he's holding steady at a rate of 5.6 percent the dinksman continues it was it was a lovely dink as well like real textbook dink brad gozan as well.

The perennial Guzan.

Yeah, someone tweeted the other day.

Does Brad Guzan just play for every MLS team or something?

He's in every clip I see.

Just a gun for hire.

Poor old Brad Guzan.

He's 40 now.

Fair play.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That is a fair play, but yeah, just seems to be falling over

after conceding a goal in every clip I watch.

But yeah.

Now, Newcastle, the celebratory fallout from their Carabao Cup win just continues.

Eddie Howe is going to be awarded the freedom of Newcastle.

And Charlie, I already can picture just how earnestly he's going to accept this honour.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Now look, it's a tremendous honour.

And it's...

For this city.

Yeah, you know, I'm not going to take it lightly.

I'm going to really sort of perform my duties in the way.

Not going to abuse it.

No, I'm not going to take the piss.

Yeah, this city is really taking me.

into its heart.

And

yeah, the honoree Freeman status is the highest honour the council can bestow on an eminent individual or group.

The names of all honorary freemen are carved into the walls of the banqueting hall in the civic centre.

This just gets more and more Eddie Howe the more I feel it.

Right, that brings us to the end of part two.

We'll be back very shortly.

Welcome back to Football Clichés.

Our next correspondence comes from Two Guy Phil Is, which is a fantastic name, Nick.

I'm sure you agree.

And he says, I'm a Finod supporter, and we were watching the Finod Intergame at a friend's house.

One of my friends was someone who recently got really into football, and he's only recently started a job archiving Dutch second year clubs' histories.

And what a job that is, by the way.

And didn't follow anything about it beforehand.

As many of these gatherings do, we just started talking a lot about football-related events of the past, like joking about Nigel de Jong's karate karate kick against Zabbi Alonso in the World Cup final.

It became increasingly clear that our friend had no idea what we were talking about and he flat out told us he didn't know anything about football pre-2021.

Incredulously the rest of us started asking about in our mind important and big football events and players of the past.

He had no clue who Eden Hazard was for example.

This turned us into trying to educate him for about some of our favourite football moments of the past that were essential in our minds.

For English football think Liverpool in Istanbul 2005, Manchester City's first title and an Aguero moment.

In the end, the best thing I could come up with was showing him Roberto Carlos's insane free kick for Brazil.

What would you show a hypothetically football mad adult who has no clue about anything in the past as essential historic viewing?

What would you go for?

I mean, it's like a time capsule dilemma, isn't it?

I think the Roberto Carlos thing is actually not bad because you kind of in that situation where you kind of, if you showed like the Aguero goal, you'd need then to explain all the context as to why it was so important.

And then, and then, I mean,

that's the evening gone before, while you kind of explain everything around it.

So, like, I don't know, Brazilian Ronaldo before he did his knee in, maybe, compilation, compilation of that, or, you know, Messi doing something brilliant.

I don't know.

You need something that looks brilliant.

It is kind of notable, but you don't need to do a lot of work to explain why it's brilliant.

Yeah, this is the crux of the matter, Charlie.

Do you just go with pure footballing aesthetics and just show them this is how beautiful the game can be and not worry them about, you know, the permutations of what was going on?

I mean, i just love this setup like i have this fancy of like one of my sons at some point getting really into football and being like daddy can you tell me everything that happened in football in the last 25 years i'm like well son sit down um you know i'll let me tell you a tale i mean obviously never gonna happen to having this scenario

oh my god yeah exactly i'm gonna be so wasted when they have no interest like my brother was saying recently actually he's got a friend of his their son's got really into football and so he has been asking my brother about something my brother's been like sending him regular kind of letters with like a different episode of football each time i think it'd be such a fun thing to be able to do yeah in this instance i mean you i'd be sort of overwhelmed as to i mean yeah i would sort of say to him like what where do you want to go is it is it what are you after here do you want the kind of magic moments are you partisan in any way do you want to kind of you know because you could just show them like i don't know the all the world cup final goals or something as just a little primer on you know just to quickly rattle you through and get you up to speed these are some of the most significant big goals and moments of the last few decades.

A goals video would be a great shout.

Just show them a goals compilation.

Goals, goals, goals.

Yeah, but maybe that's too much of a blanket hit of just pure football action without any context.

Not enough context, yeah.

Pound for pound, Nick.

I think I'd go for Michael Owens' goal to win it for England against Argentina in a friendly in Geneva in 2005.

I love that game.

Would you include Motti's commentary at this?

Absolutely, yes.

This is how football can be in a completely pointless city.

I've I've said before, I think that game, we mentioned Pro-Evo earlier, that game is the most like Pro-Evo-friendly game played in actual real life.

Everything about it is so bizarre.

Because it's played at a weird neutral venue, isn't it?

Where is it?

Switzerland or somewhere.

In Geneva, yeah.

Is in Geneva, like, you know, in the same way you're playing Pro Evo, you pick a random stadium.

The fact that...

like in that game, all the big attacking players just seem to deliver and are really good.

It's like weirdly competitive despite being a friendly.

It's just, it's such an odd game it really overperforms its XG of how good a football game should be there's no reason for that game to be good and yet exactly it's the best football game ever played on a similar note queen Elizabeth Barnard has written in and I this is a good one on the back of this she says my sweet boyfriend and I are currently watching Premier League years in a very bit part way 20 minutes a night he knows nothing about football and we're on episode 2011-12 season he doesn't know what's special about it I'm literally quivering with excitement for him to experience Aguero.

What a way to do someone to football.

Premier League years,

sort of chunk by chunk.

This is amazing.

I mean, this is like when I watched the Beckham documentary with my wife and it got to the Munich, it got to the Barcelona 99 bit.

And she was kind of like, do they win this game?

I was like, well, you know, wait and find out.

Oh, watch this bit.

Watch this bit.

Yeah, exactly.

I was kind of envious.

But I do fear for Elizabeth Barnard here as well.

Is this not a bit like when you introduce a friend or partner to a sitcom and yeah, everybody like, oh, this, this bit's really funny.

Like, you're going to love this.

kind of like

i'm not sure this is that good she's like yeah he'll be like i don't know i think the whole sort of you know i'd prefer the guy rolling thing leaves me cold

all right um right let's delve into football creeping into people's wider lives now nick uh opening tea says does anyone ever do a big pants shop and then a few years later when said pants are on their last legs realize you've got to make some tough decisions about new replacements and feel a bit like sir alex ferguson trying to create a new title-winning team but instead of football being moved on, it's pants.

And instead of a legendary football manager, I'm merely one of the leading pants wearers of his generation.

And it's a real strategy

to decide which pants, you know, have

done everything they can for you.

No, and clothes generally.

I had this thought only the other day because what I'll, and again, this is in a similar, I'll think of it like squad building, but you know, what often happens to me, you know, a t-shirt will get demoted from one I would wear in public to I'd wear this to sleep in or something.

So that's the the kind of phasing out period.

You've had a frank discussion with the t-shirts and you're not giving it as many minutes this season.

If you want to leave, you know, it's still great to have you around.

You'll be playing 20, 25 games, all competitions.

You're just not going to be my first choice anymore.

And then it's entirely up to them.

But then there will come a point at which you have to fully let them go.

And then they get demoted.

Even from there to you're just out, I'm afraid.

Some of the replies on Reddit to this post were gold, Nick.

People just getting the scenario, let alone the podcast.

Strange Branch says, you've got to know when to get rid and replace before they fall to bits.

Otherwise, there's a world of trouble.

CBren88 says, leave the pants before the pants leave you.

Yeah,

I have quite, there's a...

I don't know whether it's

something particular to the type of pants that I favor, but the telltale sign that they're going downhill, the kind of waistband at the back, so that the bits of the elastic stop sort of poking through.

Right.

So that's when you kind of...

The legs have gone.

The legs are gone.

Yeah, go.

Literally.

Tremendous.

Yeah, so that's the first sign that I thought, well, I need to keep an eye on this pair because that's going to be

causing some problems further on down the line.

But there's some nuance to this, Charlie.

It's a boon, says if you try and replace too many pairs of pants at once and the whole system falls apart.

Mark Am Scientist says you need to do it in smaller steps.

Get old pairs out and replace so you're not doing a complete rebuild.

Yeah, it's about evolution, isn't it?

What an incredible phrase to use for your pants draw, complete rebuild.

See, also, packing your suitcase for a weekend city break, I think is like picking an England squad for a major tournament.

I have to reason with the things I leave out.

Not this time.

Look, listen, I need harmony.

Yeah.

That's another bit of evolution.

It's always tough when a previous favourite is now no longer getting the nod for those

weekends away.

But at the same time, you think to yourself, how I've moved on.

Like, you know, the game is a good thing.

Yeah, you see first name on the team.

Yeah.

Frightening how quickly we move on.

Strength in depth.

Imagining a particularly flamboyant shirt that Adam's trashing a hotel room because he's not made the cut.

Wild card option.

Yeah.

Always room for that.

Right, next up, Diplo Penguin gets in touch, Charlie, and says, listening to the BBC Radio 5 live coverage of the League Cup final build-up, Isaac Hayden described Eddie Howe as being one of those managers whose door is always open and you could go and knock on it whenever you had an issue.

It got me thinking, what do managers actually do in their offices?

You typically picture a manager out on the training pitch doing the coaching part of the job.

But what does the rest of the manager's day look like?

What are they doing in there, sat by themselves, ready for a player player to just knock on the door and go in for a chat?

Surely they aren't just dealing with emails and teams' messages like the rest of us.

I mean, let's deal with the first issue though.

If a manager's door is always open, do you need to knock on it?

Or is it

courtesy?

Yeah.

But you can't be figuratively knocking on it, can you?

Like when it's getting the team, if the manager's door's figuratively always open, because they've already said you're allowed to go in and chat about it anyway.

You certainly can't be banging down their door as well.

Yeah, you can't be, yeah.

Some managers, you know, they do like to be visible.

They'll get around and they'll chat to, you know, like Pochettino was chatting to people and he'd be visible, whereas others do kind of hide themselves away and that can lead to issues sometimes.

If fictional football has taught us anything, Nick, it says that managers' offices are purely for them to stand by the big windows overseeing the training pitch as the sun comes in and wondering what the hell they're going to do with the rest of the season.

Like a sort of looming godlike presence for the team.

The thing that old former forest players always say about Brian Clough is you wouldn't, from Saturday to Thursday, you wouldn't see him and then he'd just kind of show up.

And the idea was that it would create a big impact.

But I would just be thinking, what the fuck is he doing for the rest of the time?

Is he kind of answering correspondence in his office or something?

I don't know how much admin they have to do, but yeah,

maybe they just need a place to go and decompress.

And I completely accept that.

Now, this isn't Footballers' Names in Things next.

But the very important Twitter account, Coronation Street Fans UK, has said Jack P.

Shepard, open brackets, David Platt, reveals his Coronation Street contract is up this year.

Could we be saying goodbye to a Weatherfield icon?

Just another chapter, Charlie, in soap sounding like football.

But if he is indeed off on a Bosman somewhere, it's got to be Holly Oaks, right?

That's the only career path available.

Going to be a villain in Holly Oaks.

Contractors up is great.

Not something you really think about.

Is this sort of

with that revelation?

Is he, like with Christian Erickson?

Is this a sort of come and sign me up please yeah curious to know what jackp shepherd's game is yeah i mean traditionally nick there are two options um there are the there's the turkish super league option which is hollyoaks or there's the mls option which is going off and having a really short-lived detective series in itv4 which is just named after the central character's surname and that's it and

they have some inner turmoil or some sort of special skill that means that they can solve crimes quicker than everybody else and they're they're at di level at least they get to wear their own clothes i think there's there's another option as well which is a little bit a little bit more niche but those kind of level of actors who then go to america and try and build a kind of career in hollywood and they it or it never works but occasionally you'll be watching something and you'll see someone and go hang on is that i know it's is it is it how did they get in rewind that pause that rewind it that's like lloyd kelly at juventus

definitely right absolutely right right um uh the best combined stat I think I've ever heard now, Charlie.

David O'Connell.

Just visiting my mother's care home and I heard a member of staff say that the residents have a combined age of over 8,000 years.

Fuck off.

Isn't that impressive?

I don't what's the point.

What's the comment?

What's the data?

Why would you tell them that?

But also, yeah, what point are you making?

Like, obviously they're old.

Like, that's sort of baked in.

Like, surely it needs an element of kind of surprise or like that it's not the thing you'd expect necessarily.

You want average age here, Nick.

Surely, just to show how long their longevity, they're keeping them alive.

Not that they're stockpiling them.

They're stockpiling the talent.

It's just so.

Thousand years.

I just can't see the function of telling someone that at all.

Oh, dear.

Similarly, let's return to our much-loved segment about talking about tenuous awards given to random things.

Robert Dunn says, I spotted this while sorting my tea out tonight.

Don't you hate it when the same team wins year in, year out?

It's

the co-op.

The co-op have won convenience pizza retailer of the year in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024.

This is like Bayern Munich.

Wow.

Absolute stranglehold on the convenience pizza industry.

Fair play.

The results speak for themselves, but I don't want to quibble this, but co-op pizzas are shit.

Are they?

Yeah,

the co-op's the only kind of supermarket on our high street, so we're sort of forced into it every now and then.

But they are rubbish.

Why are they winning it?

I would have thought it might be something like, maybe they're the only one entering it or something.

No one else cares.

I've just surprisingly strident opinion.

I expected to hear it.

But you tried telling this to the Papa Industry Awards because PAPA is the Pizza, Pasta, and Italian Food Association.

And they can't look past the co-op, I'm afraid.

But it's up for grabs in 2025 at least.

Now, I want to end with this.

Not the first time we've had some ice ice hockey cultural crossover with Football Cliches.

Ayan Patalinen says, I'm the Sheffield Steelers commentator for my sins on our live webcasts.

Part of the broadcast is used as the intro to the YouTube highlights package.

It's 20 to 30 seconds to preview the game, give it context, and cover the team news.

Inspired by Football League's Goals Roundup voiceovers, I'll sometimes theme it.

For the game on Saturday against the Guildford Flames, I dropped in some of the Football Cliches podcast's favourite lines.

It's retro weekend in Sheffield, and special guest Scott Allison is here.

What a player he was, by the way.

He knows a thing or two about winning trophies, and if the Steelers are going to pick up Silverware, come what April, they need to bet a last weekend's return of three points in this home double header and stay in and around the title fight.

Guilford may be in sixth place, but listen, fair play to today's opponents.

They've taken points off the Steelers twice in 2025.

Defence or forward for Kevin Tanzi?

Probably a little bit of both.

Rhys Kelly is the seventh D-man.

Finley Ulrich joins Cole Schooer on the fourth line.

Marco DiFilippo backs up Matt Greenfield with Mark Simpson and Brian Diddley missing out.

Wow.

Lovely professional cadence at the end of that, but a lovely sextet of references there, Charlie.

Yeah, that's great.

That's a great thing.

Always a great whistle-stop tour.

The listen fair play.

Always good to get that in.

The bit of both got a wonderful build-up, though, Nick.

I thought the bit of both was just on the brink of sounding too contrived, but the rest of it was very artfully done.

It was all kind of...

There was nothing like...

crowbarred in there.

There's nothing that anyone who has no idea about this would go, why is he talking like that?

That's really weird.

It all kind of sort of all makes a lot of sense.

It's just a real delicate balancing act between the glee of doing it, but imagining to seamlessly fit them into the actual cadence of talking about an ice hockey match that's about to happen.

I am Patalainen.

Hats off to you.

A listen fair play all day long.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

Thanks to you, Charlie Eccleshare.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Nick Miller.

Thank you.

And we'll be back on Tuesday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

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