Mowbray vs Brotherton, goalkeepers worth 12 points & Keith Andrews in the building

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I'm I'm sorry, you can sit there and look and play with all your silly machines as much as you like.

Is Gas going to have a crack?

He is, you know.

Oh, I think

brilliant.

But jeez!

He's round the goalkeeper.

He's done it!

Absolutely incredible!

He launched himself six feet into the crowd and Kung Fu kicked a supporter who was eye without a shadow of a doubt getting him lip.

Oh, save!

It's amazing!

He does it tame and tame and tame again.

Break up the music!

Charge a glass!

This nation is going to dance all night!

The commentators' names in 14th Century Castles saga deepens.

Match of the day's intro editors do the right thing.

Gigi Donnarumma gets the ultimate punditry seal of goalkeeping approval.

A mortifying footballers' names in things moment.

Scott Parker on rearguard actions.

Musical MLS commentary, Alan Shearer breaks rank on blind rankings, Keith Andrews and his building, big baseball men, and Richard Keys outdoing Roy Keene in the old Trefford soul-searching stakes.

Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts.

This is Football Clichés.

Hello everyone, and welcome to Football Cliches.

I'm Adam Hurry.

This is the adjudication panel.

And joining me is Charlie Eccleshare.

How are you doing?

Very well, thank you.

Alongside you is David Walker.

How are you?

I'm very good.

You were in Cardiff this weekend, I understand.

Well, some jolly, was it?

I was passing through Cardiff on the train.

I was in Swansea, actually, but did take the opportunity whilst in Cardiff on the Cardiff platform for 30 seconds to promote the upcoming live show.

I didn't realise how few tickets there were left, actually, to your dating.

I was a little bit-fisted promo from you, looking a little desperate, but no, no desperation at all.

It may well be sold out by now um not many tickets left at all um keen for some post-show pub suggestions from the cardiffians please if it's left up to me it will be a weatherspoons the one in bristol last year had its own whispering gallery dave so uh they're not always bad shout no they're often quite interesting buildings aren't they but um we've had two shouts i think in response to the to uh my request uh one is a weatherspoons and the other one is some sort of independent brew house.

So we'll see.

Yeah, our listenership is very brew house, isn't it?

If you think about it, yes, go to tickets.football clichés.com if you want to join us on tour in October in Brighton, Cardiff, Hackney Empire in London, Birmingham, Dublin, and Manchester.

Leeds and Glasgow sold out.

We've been discussing the live show and our little plan for it, and I'm very excited indeed.

Right, adjudication panel time.

You'll remember last week a listener was at a family fun day at Franningham Castle where one of the jousting knights, presumably a drama student, was Sir Guy of Mowbray.

We found that very entertaining.

We thought it might be a coincidence of some kind.

Josh Danker writes in, Dave, and says, I particularly enjoyed listening to the piece on Sir Guy of Mowbray, the knight from Framlingham Castle, and whether or not this was based on the commentator.

My mum used to work at English Heritage, and whilst playing this to her, she produced the Framlingham Castle Guidebook.

She confirmed that the Mowbray family did in fact own Framlingham Castle, although the name Guy is just the name of the performer.

What is most notable, however, is that the Mowbray family did in fact inherit Framlingham from none other than the Brotherton family in the late 14th century.

Is there some commentator merry-go-round at Framlingham?

A mind-blowing discovery and one to maybe revisit on the next pod.

Indeed.

Dave, this is great.

What?

How can that be true?

That's amazing.

It goes even further, Charlie.

George H.

also wrote in and said the high school I went to in Framlingham has houses named after the families who owned the castle.

So Mowbray versus Brotherton was, and I guess still is, a regular fixture in house football.

That's class.

With commentary and everything.

We need to let these guys know about this.

It's got a five-minute football focus feature written all over it.

100%, yeah.

Yeah, and they can do a half of commentary each on the

game.

Wow.

Aristocratic background of Guy Mowbray and Simon Brotherton.

The fact that we joked about Brotherton as well.

That was the name, yeah.

Yeah, always the go-to.

More feedback.

Fraser Thomas, Charlies, can clarify the birth date of the term Wags and save the bacon for the scriptwriters of Saipan, in which Roy Keene's wife bemoans the characterization.

President Thomas sent me a Telegraph article from 2002 in which England's wags, the wives and girlfriends of the World Cup players, returned to Britain after five days of bonding in Dubai.

They had a pre-World Cup camp, the WAGS, in 2002.

Yeah, this is one of those where you're like, you're proved wrong, but you're like, but did you definitely know this?

Because,

yeah, I don't know.

I'm not sure.

Did the writers know about this early Genesis for sure?

I don't know, but if they did, fair play.

They're off the hook.

That's the main thing.

Yeah.

I was just distracted by the byline for this Telegraph piece, Dave, by Topaz Amur.

What a name.

Yeah, listen, fair play.

That's a hell of a name.

I mean, the Wags were a little bit ahead of the curve there as well, getting over to Dubai in 2002.

Feels like that's

quite early for the current sort of Dubai era.

Pre-explosion, yeah.

Warm weather training.

Love it.

We didn't get this wrong, though.

As pointed out by the intrepid David Humphreys, this, to recap, was the match of the day intro this season.

Welcome to Match of the Dead.

But following last week's special report on the scandal of them using Clive Tilsley's ITV commentary for Wayne Rooney's goal against Arsenal in 2002, this was the Match of the Day intro this weekend.

Absolutely phenomenal.

Rudy on

Match of the Dead.

Quietly snipped it out, Dave.

It's gone.

Wow.

I'm not sure how I feel about it, though, actually.

How proud should we be?

Yeah.

We've made quite the impact there.

Are you happy now?

It's that sort of thing, isn't it?

I hope no one's got in trouble

off the back of this.

Obviously, I hope that, but I remain proud that we police this sort of thing.

It's important.

Charlie, no one seemed to share my enthusiasm for this, and I don't care about that because of the...

Yeah,

I'm surprised given May and Day's relative lack of enthusiasm.

You know, it wasn't like there was a big bandwagon, but...

No.

And they've not replaced it with another goal, though.

They just snipped it out, which is interesting.

But I mean, I want to know more about this.

We need match of the day insiders to come forward.

Because what's the process here?

How high did this go?

Yeah, I want a statement.

from the BYB.

Yeah, I wonder how high it even did go.

It might even be one of those things where whoever, you know, someone might have been like, oh, no, you know, this will barely make a ripple.

No one's going to notice this.

Tim Davey?

Naive.

That would have been.

I feel for Clive Tildsley in all this, to be honest.

How must Clive Tilsley feel?

Erased from history.

In a way, I know it's like it's a weird thing, and we were right to point it out, but I don't mind them having the ITV thing in there.

I think it's quite nice for them to subtly nod to those years where they didn't have the premiership era.

Exactly, yeah.

Not their nod to give, as far as I'm concerned.

Right, over to the weekend's action, Charlie.

I mean, astonishing misuse of this construction.

TNT Sports tweeted, Martin Zubamendi gets his brace.

A brilliant header by the Spaniard and Arsenal lead 3-0.

I mean, there are two things wrong with this.

Obviously,

he is not an owner of a brace.

You know, he's the most unlikely scorer of a brace.

And then, of course, there's no such thing as getting his brace anyway, is there?

Braces are not there to be got.

It's such a weird thing because I always look to try and understand where someone might be coming from with this kind of thing.

But there are so many different ways of saying this.

There's no, it's not like there's a space issue, it's not like you're avoiding repetition.

I mean, maybe there'd been a string of tweets before where there were things that they wanted to avoid, but yeah, it's very odd.

I mean, you could, I mean, there is a world in which a striker

has been desperately trying to get a second goal.

Maybe his first goal is from the penalty.

Oh, he's never scored a brace before, maybe.

Yes, first brace, finally.

And then he's, but yeah, it's just not something you would ever say.

Alexander Ward writes in Dave and says,

you can get your goal and you can get your hat-trick, but you can't get your brace.

I think that's a fair summary of the situation, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly.

Because when you get a brace, assuming there's enough time left in the game, you're on a hat-trick.

And if you end up with the brace, you've got the brace.

You've bagged the brace.

But it's not really anything to be celebrated in and of itself.

It's a means to an end.

Spot on.

It's a provisional state, the brace.

No one ever aims to score a brace.

I dream of scoring a brace in a World Cup final.

Maybe Zidan did.

I don't know.

This next one comes from Dave O'Leary, who is presumably listening to his old team Aston Villa against Everton on 5 Live.

Stephen Warnock on Co-Comms with no disrespect to passive prefixes.

Block from the kint loops onto the roof of the net behind for another corner.

Yeah, superb John McGinn.

Brilliant from Grealish initially, just to draw a couple of Aston players towards him to allow that space for Garner to get the shot in.

How does this happen?

But the thing about it, Charlie, as jarring as it all felt talking of aston defenders felt very sort of 18 1880s like newspaper report i wonder as well like i bet there'll be other listeners who like me had no idea until they heard of someone i remember someone i knew going to aston university and i didn't want to like reveal my ignorance but i was kind of like oh

right okay but like otherwise you just think like aston villa it's just like a thing in an event you don't you never would break it down in that way.

Yeah, very odd to hear.

It does sound ignorant, Dave, but everyone's got to go through that moment in their lives when they realize that, yes, indeed, Aston is in Birmingham.

Yeah,

it's weird how jarring that does sound, but it's also, I guess it's sort of surprising that that doesn't slip out more often here and there.

I don't think I've ever heard it ever before.

Yeah, we were talking about this on the pod, isn't it?

About how Aston are simply so disproportionately undefined by their prefix, more so than any other club.

It is mad.

But there you go.

Stephen Warnock doing his best to bring it into the equation.

Next up, this came from Trinidad Jazz, Gigi Donnerumma's impressive debut for Manchester City, as commented on by Danny Murphy in the most inevitable way.

It's a phenomenal save.

And exactly why they decided to bring him in, because he is more experienced than Trafford.

He's got more presence.

I think a brilliant goalkeeper can beat a difference, you know, eight, nine, ten points, even in a season.

Yeah.

It's the listing of the points.

Well, Charlie, you've got to commit to a number if you're doing this.

It's also, and I've spoken about this before, but it's the suggestion that this is like an original, you know, that is one of my biggest,

you know, for me, you know, this will sound crazy, but a good goalkeeper is worth so many, but it's like, yeah, that has been said a gazillion times before.

It has, Dave, but I put it to you that this is the most specific sounding,

you know, data-backed sounding claim that has never actually been backed up with data.

Like, it sounds like something that really has been researched, and especially to put a specific number on it as well.

I find it fascinating.

If you first came up with this, but also the fact that, you know, if you don't suggest that they'll win you a points tally that's a multiple of three,

you're putting some draws in there as well.

Why not?

That would be a really close to the point.

Which is totally legitimate.

Well, seven points a season, I reckon.

I mean,

it was definitely a Czech thing.

It was said about Czech.

Yeah.

I feel like it might have been said about Schmeichel as well.

I feel like that might have been the first for it to have been said of.

And then Czech...

I feel like more entered the mainstream.

At the end of that clip, you can hear Theo Walcott with a little, yeah.

He played with Petachek, of course, so he knows.

If anybody knows, he does.

He played with the post-12 points, Pettichek.

Yeah, he probably totted up the points that they won him while he was there.

Right, he's done it again, Excalibur.

Here is all-elite wrestling dynamite.

Punch to punch for sure.

Johnny Storm gets the shot away.

Come on, I would have hoped for a little bit more of a tune, please, Excalibur.

Dave, it's not a bad effort.

Slightly more melodic next time, please, Excalibur.

But yeah, fair play.

Keep going.

Good to know that this strand of niche cliches content is still going, Charlie.

Meanwhile, Ryan Mowen writes in and says, Watching a chess video and a football clichés reference comes up.

My brother told me I had to send this in.

Take the bishop.

If Queen takes, then White is threatening mate.

So let's castle.

And the plan is to complete development.

D6.

Take the night away.

Just the right amount of melody in there

to include it in the candidate.

That thing there is the perfect example of why it's so hard for me and us to accurately describe to someone who hasn't listened before what we do on this podcast.

I know.

I was trying to do it again at the weekend.

Someone was asking me, I was playing Five Aside on Friday night, and some of them went for a pint afterwards.

And some of the guys had sort of overheard that I did this podcast.

And I was trying to, it's quite an awkward thing to explain anyway.

I was trying to explain.

that.

I just can't do it.

I mean, how possibly could I say, well, you know, the thing we did the other day, actually, we listened to some guy playing chess, and the way that he said takes the night away.

The thing is, I don't want to lean into the too much into the weirdness and the in-jokes.

I want this to be a very accessible podcast.

But no, I think we should have a sprinkling of this sort of stuff.

But I refuse to keep explaining it every single time.

Go back and listen to the old episodes.

Find out yourself.

Time for footballers' names in things.

Actually, I want to start with a frankly humiliating story.

There was an interview by Adam Bate for Sky with the EFL character Steve Evans, who has lost six stone recently.

You know, just for health reasons, basically, wants to get himself fit and ready for work again.

And

interesting interview.

And then, tangentially, I was on my Peloton on Saturday morning, cycling away, and I glanced at the leaderboard.

for the the big climb that I was doing and up popped up popped a Steve Evans in his 50s from Huddersfield I thought I mean at first I thought, yeah, funny footballers named things, pretty runner-the-mills, very, very common name.

Then I looked at the profile picture and it looked a bit Steve Evans-y.

And I'm a novice Peloton user, Dave.

So basically, I thought I thought it would follow all the other sort of interface customs.

If you click on someone's profile photo, it enlarges it, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So then I can have a good look at it and say, wow, maybe that is Steve Evans.

That'd be cool.

And that's not what happens.

When you click on someone's photo, you high-five them.

I high-fived a bloke called Steve Evans just because because I thought he was Steve Evans.

It's like poking someone on Facebook.

Basically.

Back of the old days.

I undid the high-five, Charlie, as quickly as I'd done it.

So I don't know if he noticed it, but if there's Steve Evans from Huddersfield listening, I'm really sorry, mate.

I'm not trying anything on.

And did you get any closer by doing that to finding out if it was Steve Evans?

It definitely isn't him, obviously.

I think Steve Evans is older than 50, so I haven't actually double-checked the age.

But yeah, all roads suggest it is not him.

But yeah, a low point, low point of my existence.

Let's move swiftly on.

This came from PMD, a very unexpected footballer's name discussing nutrition and the immune system.

Something like a less hygienic environment or to microbes when we're younger trains our immune system to be better at dealing with allergies.

So that comes from wonderful and pioneering research by Gordon Strachan at St.

George's Hospital in South London.

We're not too far.

Love that.

I love the idea, Dave, of sort of Gordon Stacken dryly sort of addressing a bunch of students about nutrition and the immune system.

Yeah.

But he'd love that, wouldn't he?

Yeah.

Andy Brassel's voice in things there as well, by the way.

Yeah, so that was a nice little bonus for you.

Finally, this came from Jeff Stewart.

He says, I'm reading Hidden Prey by John Sanford, a very serious American detective novel.

And on page 148, I had a laugh-out loud moment.

The cop who'd followed Lucas in said, Hey, when I'm talking to you, Lucas pointed his finger at him and snarled, shut the fuck up.

Who's running this clown factory?

One of the men in plain clothes snapped.

I am.

Who the fuck are you?

Who the fuck are you?

John Terry, I'm the chief.

Of course he's the chief.

He's the chief.

Great stuff.

Don't know if John Sanford is a Chelsea fan, but we can find out.

Right next up, delighted to confirm that Scott Parker is back.

Today at times we had to survive.

We had to survive.

And today we had to dig and go to places that not many human beings sometimes go to.

What?

Only Scott Parker could describe almost getting a clean sheet home to Liverpool, like landing on the moon.

But it's even weird.

It's the phrasing is even weirder where people not often have to go to.

It's very strange.

Robert sent this in, Dave, and said a bit much for me.

And I have to say I'm agreed with this.

Yeah.

I mean, it's almost like they're navy seals.

Yeah, it's very on the front line kind of special operation.

Yeah.

Where few human beings have had to go.

I mean I guess that you know the lactic acid that must have running through them would have been you know

by some metrics it probably is true but yeah it's hugely overdramatic.

They were just booting it down the pitch at one point constantly.

It was brilliant to watch but not quite the limits of human endeavour to me.

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This came from Grayson Hoffman with some musical MLS commentary from Atlanta United versus Columbus Crew.

Austin in behind again here

it's Austin

into the Gazdark.

It's two

Charlie, love the vibrato here from Callum Williams on comms, but this is perfectly explicable.

It's musical intonation, it's very easily explained because it's one of those situations where a player could shoot, and it's almost like a pending situation, and then he passes the ball to somebody else, and then the situation moves on and it becomes even more tense.

So the intonation makes perfect sense.

Yeah, definitely.

The first one is in that anticipation of the big moment that doesn't quite arrive.

It's rare you hear the two-hander quite like that.

Yeah, so it's actually quite a a useful commentary device, Dave.

It almost lets the play flow while they commentate over the top of it.

Yeah, yeah.

It was nicely done.

It sounded a little bit like you, actually.

Really?

I think so.

Slightly, maybe slightly older, you, but you had a similar tone and pitch.

Yeah, also, also reminiscent of Chris Wise's commentary for Brato from a few weeks ago as well.

So it's obviously catching on.

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Welcome back to Football Cliches.

A reminder that you can sign up for Dreamland at dreamland.football clichés.com.

For your $5.99 a month, you'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes, plus two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive new show.

Episode seven is out in the wild.

We dissected the 2025 summer transfer window, the highlight of which, amongst all the chaos, was Charlie reimagining incremental transfer negotiations as sort of mundane phone calls, which I think was worth the entrance fee alone.

That was the worth the entrance fee alone moment for Dreamland.

For sure.

Only Charlie could do it as well.

It was fun.

It was sort of the sequel to the kind of imagined pundit going through every club.

Agreed.

It was superb.

Right.

Go to dreamland.football cliches.com to sign up.

Now,

this is superb.

Stick with this.

We were talking recently about football expertise being used in court cases and just how weird it is that you need football experts to explain various things.

This came from Automatic Peace on Reddit.

I was reminded of my own trip to a courtroom during my school days.

When I was, what, 15, 16, 17, a group of us were invited by a teacher during activities afternoon on a Thursday to go and observe a court case from the public gallery at the local court.

It was a case of possession with intent to supply, and the afternoon we were there, the prosecution were putting forward some evidence to the defence, which consisted of a piece of paper with some names and numbers written down.

They included surnames and a two-digit number.

I distinctly remember at the top of the list was Capaldi18, followed by a series of other surnames, all of which rang a bell for me.

The prosecution asserted that the names referred to the defendant's customers and the numbers referred to the quantity of extracurriculars that the customer was asking for.

As they were read out, I realised they were all Cardiff City footballers at the time.

Sure enough, the defendant's argument was that the sheet was his record of Cardiff players' free kick-taking rating on football manager.

The prosecution refuted the argument and called it absurd.

But I was raging in the gallery, knowing that the defendant was bang right, and also knowing that having scraps of paper with those sorts of details is exactly the sort of thing I was also doing at the time.

I left without being able to intervene and feeling like the greatest miscarriage of justice was about to be done.

I never found out the outcome of the case.

It may be that the Cardiff player surnames were indeed sophisticated code for the defendant's customers, but my conscience has never been cleared that I could have stepped in and averted injustice with my football manager knowledge that day.

Wow.

Fucking hell.

Surely Peter Whittingham should have been top of the list.

Back then, he was a set pieceman, wasn't he?

Definitely a set pieceman.

Yeah.

I didn't know Capaldian in his locker, to be honest, Charlie.

Wow, that is amazing.

That must have sat with him for years.

Surely we can find out what happened.

Need some names.

Need a case number or something.

Tell us what happened to this guy.

He's still fighting for justice all these years

and more of this sort of thing please right next up this came from carlos bell here is alan shearer being interviewed by ali mccoyst a riproaring interview it was too and finally getting something off his chest about the modern football content machine and the people that we work for are all looking for hits on social media i mean whether it's this crap of i don't know blind rating yes top ten or top five it's just done for so people go and watch on social media, and that's what they're interested in, is getting as many hits as possible.

Certainly changed from when we started.

Even funnier, Charlie, that he got he got the name of it slightly wrong, which I think just increases his disdain for the whole process.

But it's great to see players speaking out about this.

Yeah, is that the first sort of example of that?

Breaking ranks.

Yeah.

Interesting that he's talking to Ali McCoyst about it, though, because McCoyst, obviously, and he's a McCoyst is nodding along there, sort of in agreement with Alan Shearer, but McCoy's approach to doing these live rankings rankings when he's asked is quite different to the approach that Shearer takes.

How many blind rankings must they have done between them by now?

My God.

But I'm sort of semi-unsurprised that Shira has been the first to break rank here and so.

I can't be asked for this shit anymore.

And fair play to him.

Yeah, well, I mean, this feels like a bit of his wrestlers football personality coming out, doesn't it?

I feel like, you know, since he's let his hair down, figuratively speaking, on that show, I think he feels a bit more comfortable, you know, putting the boot in elsewhere.

Yeah, it's a good point, actually.

He's sort of very much leaning into the sort of slightly

curmudgeonly elder kind of dad personality, just gently raging at the model.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that's how you can act when the podcast Monday starts rolling in.

Let's put the feelers out, get him on cliches, and then I sort of semi-ironically make him blind rank things for an entire hour just out of sheer duty to a fellow Goalhanger podcast.

Would be good.

Rank Goalhanger Podcast.

Blind rank.

Yeah, that'll be worthwhile exercise these days.

Oh, God, I forgot

wrestling history.

Right, next up, Brentford manager Keith Andrews here with some exquisite head coach speak discussing Joan Wisser's departure to Newcastle.

I think up until the very last press conference before we played Sunderland, it was, yeah, it was nowhere near a move.

And that's pretty much where I was and wanted Johan to stay.

Didn't really want to lose that amount of goals out of the building.

But equally, I'm very understanding of the way this club works.

Goals out of the building.

That's amazing.

What an incredible use of the building.

This mythical building that they keep talking about.

But goals don't go out of the training ground, which is, of course, presumably the building that is being spoken about, Charlie.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, yeah, it needs to be more sort of intangible, squaddy thing, you know, like his infectious personality.

We don't want to lose that from the building or something.

But yeah, the goals, that's far more of a match day thing.

I feel really sorry, Dave, for these new head coaches who have to speak the lingo, like in the building.

Yeah.

This isn't the first time he's done an in the building, he did one in pre-season, yeah, when he was talking about the same thing.

He was talking about um, uh, Mbumo and Wisa before they'd left, yeah, he didn't want to lose them from the building, yeah, a bit more of a standard usage that, but yeah, good to know that he's he's right at the vanguard of it.

But do you know what?

I really like Keith Andrews, there's something really cool about him, he seems like an incredibly unruffleable man.

It's no, it's interesting, it's interesting you say that because I feel like he is absolutely on a collision course with a big teams manager to draw with them or something and upset them in some way at the G-Tech, and really, and there to be a bit of a spat and to really revel in it.

I feel like he's going to have a sort of an early Sam Allardyce moment of

a kind of fancy dan manager or team being upset and

even snubbing his handshake or something and him being left in the like, what, what did I do?

What did we do?

Sorry, we didn't roll over for you kind of role.

Like, he doesn't look like he's going to take shit, and I think he'll quite enjoy being the proportion.

I mean, wasn't he talking about chaos, you know, causing chaos before the Chelsea game?

Right.

Yeah, I think he'll enjoy that.

He does seem to have quite a lot about him.

And I think people, us included, were quite quick to just lump him in as to one of the reasons why Brentford would struggle this season, just because he's a sort of unknown quantity as a manager.

He's still going to be a shit manager.

He's funded, Andy.

He's still a shit lesson.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I'm just massively impressed by just how cool he is.

And new managers, Dave, often do kind of do this performative coolness.

You know, nothing bothers me, nothing phases me.

I've seen it all.

I'm old enough, I'm ugly enough, you know.

Also, he's genuinely better looking than I ever gave him credit for.

He's aged well, Keith Andrews.

There's a classiness to him.

He was dressed all in black against Chelsea as well, which is a classy look.

Good example of someone who wasn't a very glamorous player on the pitch, but when you remove him from the pitch, he's actually

quite sort of glamorous and stylish.

And yeah, he's got good hair.

He looks good.

Yeah, maybe it shouldn't be a surprise that human beings suddenly look better when you dress them in slightly tailored black clothing compared to baggy nylon from the 90s.

There you are.

This came from Ryan Gray.

He says, I was listening to the radio commentary of the Seattle Mariners versus the LA Angels the other day, and I was really surprised to hear the co-commentator Angie Mentnick dust off a well-worn football cliché to describe the infielder Logan Davidson after he managed to get to first base with a bunt.

That's going to be a bunt base it.

And now the Angels with runners at the corners and nobody out.

And we've seen him bunt a couple of times, and he's got pretty good touch for a big guy, and he just absolutely kills this ball down the third baseline.

Baseball wouldn't have been anywhere near the top of the list of sports I thought could summon a good touch for a big man, Charlie.

This is superb.

Yeah, I just wonder if there are other sports like where height is so expected, like in basketball or something, if you get it the other way around.

Yeah.

But yeah, that, yeah, I wouldn't have seen that coming.

What is a bunt, Dave?

A bunt is when.

So instead of swinging the bat and trying to hit a home run or whatever, you decide I'm not going to risk either swinging and missing or getting out or whatever.

So I'm just going to sort of hold the bat either end and just let the ball hit the bat so it just drops down right at your feet and then you run to the first base.

Something slightly pathetic about it, but the name is very sort of evocative of the action.

So you hear it in tennis as well.

It's less of an official thing.

Right.

But yeah, some player, you kind of bunt a backhand.

Like Cam Norrie's got quite a bunt of a backhand.

Could you bunt in football?

Could bunting ever be possible in football?

Could you bump one in, bunt one home?

And he's bunting it home.

Yeah, I'm trying to think what a bunt what that would look like in football.

It would be miles away from a prod or a bundle, surely, on the line, bunting it home.

Yeah, maybe.

The key thing about bunting is you're sort of killing the ball dead.

It's been thrown at you so fast and you're

not trying to hit it.

You're just letting it hit the bat so it dies.

I suppose.

You see finishes like that, though.

I mean, like in football, you know, when you like a really fizzed cross and you just kind of caress it with your instep, you kind of control it.

Take the sting off it.

I mean, like Yokarez's goal a bit on the weekend is it's not quite that, but he's you're trying not to swing, really.

If you swing, you might miss it or thrash at it.

You are just presenting your foot, and that's it.

Yeah, exactly.

You're just like, I'm just going to kind of cushion it, I guess.

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, I'm talking about this like I'm some sort of baseball expert.

I mean, I'm not at all, but I'm pretty sure that's that's the case.

I did have a brief spell deep into the first lockdown where I downloaded the baseball equivalent of FIFA and worked out how to bunt it in that.

That's basically what I'm basing my whole knowledge on.

Six out of ten confident that you know what a bub was.

Finally, for the adjudication panel, this came from Jon O'Baker.

He says, I think you'll enjoy this.

It's from an East Midlands-wide afternoon show on BBC Local Radio.

They play the goal every afternoon as part of a quiz, and it sounds like the producers finally had enough of this sound effect.

Which iconic 1968 film featured Steve McQueen in a famous car chase through San Francisco?

The answer was bullet.

It was indeed.

And if you got all three right,

you, my friend, are a hat-trick hero.

Should we go over the answers?

Yeah, I wonder what that sounds from.

Like,

what game is that sound from?

I don't know.

Do you know what?

I think it needs to be a bit better.

I don't know.

I think we need to re-evaluate the buzzers.

Yeah,

we'll assess it on Monday.

Okay.

Well, producer, I can tell you it was a goal from a Reading match in the mid-70s, so there you are.

But good to see some self-awareness creeping in about this sound effect, Dave.

Yeah, it could have been a bit tighter on the edit with the clip, I think, actually.

Oh, wow.

Okay, fair enough.

But, Charlie, do you know what?

Having heard this sound effect so many times, and we've always sort of pinpointed the

sound that comes up.

I don't know if this was a particularly high-quality version of that sound effect, but the first time I heard it in this clip, I realised he goes, Go!

If you listen to it carefully, he actually does shout!

Yeah, he does.

It's a really sort of looping goal, and then someone sort of nearby also just has a nice little laugh about it.

It's just fantastic.

So, yeah, we've solved the mystery even further, which is great.

Anyway, speaking of funny noises, it's time for keys and grey corner.

Right, a lovely little weekend for Keys in Grey.

Here is Richard Keyes on Manchester United.

Now, Charlie, on Super Sunday, after another Manchester United defeat,

it's becoming a bit of a broken record, the kind of analysis of a Manchester United defeat.

And I also think there are some slightly diminishing returns from Roy Keene.

It's starting to sound very samey.

It needs to be mixed up somehow.

Yeah, and I do think yesterday as well, well, the Ricky Hatton thing meant there was a kind of more somber mood, generally, wasn't there?

So they probably felt like this probably isn't the day for another Manchester United post-mortem.

Yeah, even so.

I felt that they were sort of going through the motions of what they can say about the state of Manchester United.

Keese, though, has some mileage left for this.

This is a mere 45 seconds from a five-minute soliloquy from the big man on the state of things at Old Trafford.

And here we are now, whereby I think you're looking at a continued period in the wilderness

because

they're nowhere near good enough.

Nowhere near.

You know, Jim Ratcliffe talked about the club going bust last Christmas and then from somewhere found 200 million that they've wasted again.

They've wasted it again.

There's one for you.

They need a goalkeeper.

The worst buying United's history, O'Nana.

And I say that because they let a world-class goalkeeper leave for nothing and then spent on O'Nana.

No coach has wasted more money than Dan Harvey.

But you need a goalkeeper.

Yeah.

Setty have gone and signed him.

You've signed the lad from Antwerp that we don't know anything about.

Nothing.

Not a thing.

Not a thing.

It pains me because

I don't see a way out of this issue for them.

That is right up there with the anti-grey clarifications of our time.

Nope.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing.

That is amazing.

I feel feel like he cares more about Man United than Roy Keene does, Dave Much.

Roy Keene was like, get your tackles in.

And Keesey's going straight for the sort of administration itself of Manchester United.

Yeah, Keese is a bit more bigger picture

than Keene.

Yeah.

Definitely.

But yeah, it's good to see there's some life left in the Manchester United discourse.

Next up, a tweet from Keesy, Charlie.

Please, Refcam, enough already.

What's the point?

What a bugbear for him.

Is this going to be his season thing?

Is this going to be the new Arteta's technical area?

He was unlikely to get on board with Refcam, wasn't he?

Why?

Of all the innovations.

How do you feel about it?

I don't really have a strong view on it.

I mean, it's sort of fine.

Sometimes it's quite cool.

Sometimes it's a bit like, yeah, I'm not sure that's adding loads.

That's not the best view.

Well, I mean, yeah, on that point, Dave, you know, you know, the broadcasting innovations this season are basically twofold.

Half-time interviews, which everyone agrees are genuinely pointless.

They're not offensively bad, but they are just complete waste of time.

But Refcam, this is a novel camera angle.

This is a camera angle we've never been privy to in any other era.

This is great.

I think it's inside the game.

I like it.

I sort of like the idea of it, and I think there are, you know, surely there will be moments where it does perform a very useful function in helping us see how difficult it was to make a decision.

But, you know, there's something about it for me, which I almost feel like it's too close.

And it's sort of spoiling the magic a little bit.

Really?

It looks a bit tinpot.

And it makes it look...

it sort of undermines it a bit.

They're thrusting arms when they're running away.

I want to be that close to the players.

Yeah, it sort of makes it look a little bit more mundane than I want it to be.

I know what you mean, but I think it's innovation.

When I see the camera is mounted on their chest before kickoff, Charlie, I'm excited.

Because there's potential there.

Something can happen.

Little buzz.

It's going to pay off.

Finally, this came from Joe Howarth.

He says, I don't know if you're aware.

But Keys and Gray keep calling Everton's new ground on be in the David Dickinson Stadium, and they're both giggling giggling like schoolgirls.

More like David Dickinson.

Yeah, I'm surprised that, because that feels like quite a derogatory, like, that's what they'd say about Old Trafford or a team they hate, or like a team that's in, you know, that's embarrassing themselves.

Yeah.

But I feel like, you know, they've got so much love and respect for

steeped in history.

Yeah, poor form.

I watched most of the broadcast on Saturday, but I didn't pick that bit out, and I couldn't record it anyway, but I wish I had.

That would be great.

Thanks to you, Charlie Equilishare.

Thank you.

Thanks to you, Dave Walker.

Thank you.

Thanks to everyone for listening.

We'll be back on Thursday.

See you then.

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

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