Arsenal's official title status, Idris Elba's prefix woe & the verb "to goal”

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Speaker 4 He's round the goalkeeper. He done it.

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Oh, save.

Speaker 4 It's amazing. He does it tame and tame and tame again.
Break up the music. Charge a glass.

Speaker 4 This nation is going to dance all night long.

Speaker 7 Charlie pulling the strings on Sunday supplement.

Speaker 8 The definitive classification of Arsenal's title chances right now.

Speaker 9 Troy Parrott officially passes the what a week he's had threshold.

Speaker 7 Thursday nights, Sky Sports Main Event. Thursday nights, Sky Sports Main Ervent.

Speaker 11 The football equivalent of some very specific NFL terminology.

Speaker 9 Daniel Farker and the most boring inevitable sacking of all time. And Idris Elber goes for a huge football club prefix gamble.
Brought to your ears by Goal Hanger Podcasts. This is Football Clichés.

Speaker 8 Hello everyone and welcome to Football Clichés.

Speaker 13 I'm Adam Hurry.

Speaker 15 This is the adjudication panel.

Speaker 16 Joining me first of all is Charlie Eccleshaire.

Speaker 17 How you doing? Very well, thank you.

Speaker 13 Alongside you, David Walker.

Speaker 18 how are things?

Speaker 19 Things are good.

Speaker 15 Charlie, on Sunday, you made your debut on Sunday's supplement.

Speaker 20 What a moment.

Speaker 15 It must feel like a real milestone in a journalistic career.

Speaker 17 A rite of passage, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 6 It was good fun.

Speaker 23 Enjoyed it. I thought you held your own.

Speaker 25 I thought you battered away some of the questions superbly.

Speaker 15 And then

Speaker 28 you started to take control of things.

Speaker 13 Martin Samuel phoning it in from down under about the cricket, and you presented him with this dilemma.

Speaker 30 Martin, do you think there'll be the kind of reflection that I think a lot of people are calling for?

Speaker 30 Or will it be more of the kind of digging in and saying, this is what we do, we're just going to keep doing it, we believe in it?

Speaker 32 Yeah, well,

Speaker 32 that's pretty much what's happened today. And you've got this other thing.
You've got this old

Speaker 19 Were you trying to trap him, Charlie?

Speaker 17 Certainly not consciously. And I actually think the options I've given are a little too binary for a bit of both.

Speaker 17 It certainly wasn't my intention. And I think, you know,

Speaker 17 his answer

Speaker 17 illustrates that.

Speaker 33 Yeah, you're right. It's one or the other there, isn't it?

Speaker 34 Really?

Speaker 33 But, you know,

Speaker 33 you can't fool a wisened old operator like Martin Samuel, can you? He didn't go for that.

Speaker 35 Half an hour in the Sky Studio, and he starts talking like a Sky Sportsman. It's superb.

Speaker 15 Dave, this came from John Keogh.

Speaker 39 It's the crowd sounds for Watford's goals as they came back from 2-0 down to win at Derby this weekend.

Speaker 8 And he noticed, I mean, it's something we've talked about, we've scooted around this issue before, but we've never focused on this particularly.

Speaker 8 Just the way that the crowd noises ascend for each of the goals as the comeback becomes more real.

Speaker 15 It's basically hope, then realisation, then disbelief.

Speaker 16 There's a lovely nuance between all those sounds.

Speaker 33 Yes, the particular type of goals as well lend themselves to this nice ascending order.

Speaker 33 Because the first one, we'd gone 2-0 down, we'd played quite well, but Derby have have scored a second from a set piece, and it's all looking a bit familiar.

Speaker 33 And then we kind of got a goal pretty much out of nowhere. It's like a cross from deep and a nice snap, snap finish from our striker.
So that's kind of, oh, hello. Maybe we're back in it here.

Speaker 33 Game on. Yeah.
Then the second was a penalty, but

Speaker 33 we don't really have like our penalty taker, KMB. He actually is quite a good penalty taker, but he's not the best player.
So there is like just a little bit of like, oh, God, I hope he scores this.

Speaker 33 It's not like Harry Kane stepping up. And then the third one was a couple of minutes after the penalty.
It's the same player, Kayembe, who's not the tallest, pops up from a corner and

Speaker 33 heads us in front. And they're all at the far end as well, which, again, sort of makes it, I think

Speaker 33 it makes it slightly different than if it was at your end, maybe.

Speaker 15 Let's hear the three sounds in a little tighter together.

Speaker 39 It was Thundercats-esque.

Speaker 39 The way it grows.

Speaker 17 I think

Speaker 17 it would be pretty hard to do, but it would be quite fun to try and guess what's just happened from just hearing the noise. What kind of is this exactly like that? Is this a getting one back?

Speaker 17 Is this an equalizer? Is this a winner? Is this a late winner?

Speaker 17 I remember actually in the first series of Dream Team, very ahead of its time, but there was a bit where they were running late for the game and they were sort of like, oh, they could hear noise.

Speaker 17 They were like, have we scored? And then the guys sort of explained, no, I don't think that's a goal noise. It's more of like a this kind of noise.
And it was very related to the broadband.

Speaker 43 I feel like the stream team got that subtle. Wow.

Speaker 6 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 17 Because that is a thing. You know, when you're like, if you are running late or if you're still having your halftime drink or whatever and you hear it or not, you're like, what's that?

Speaker 6 That's, that can't be a goal.

Speaker 17 Is that a good save?

Speaker 17 Maybe hitting the bar?

Speaker 36 Like, there's a real, there are these very subtle differences.

Speaker 33 Yeah. And you try and, I had this recently.
I left a game early that I was working at and we and we heard a goal.

Speaker 33 We were trying to work out whether it was for the home team or the away team, and it was really on the cusp.

Speaker 33 It was up at Middlesbrough, and it turned out to be a Middlesbrough goal, but it didn't quite feel like huge enough.

Speaker 33 Again, it's like you've got to sort of take into account distance, what part of the ground are you walking past when you're out inside, and that sort of thing.

Speaker 38 It can be tricky.

Speaker 33 We used to have it actually when I was a kid.

Speaker 33 My house where my mum still lives is a stone's throw from

Speaker 33 Vickerage Road, a big throw. But I can see the floodlights from my childhood bedroom.

Speaker 17 Does that mean you can't watch games on TV because it's ruined? Because you're slightly behind. And so you hear goals before

Speaker 17 they're shown.

Speaker 33 Not in the house. You're okay in the house.
But if you're in the garden. I can remember it loads of times when I was a kid and I didn't go to the matches and you would hear the shouts.

Speaker 33 And you try and work out what happened. That's a great noise to wash over your back garden.

Speaker 34 Love that.

Speaker 15 But yeah, a mountain to climb for Watford and they did it.

Speaker 13 But an uphill task also for the England cricket team.

Speaker 29 Our cricket clichés team may well be covering sincerely on episode two of cricket clichés.

Speaker 15 Episode one is out there, Dave.

Speaker 40 We did it.

Speaker 16 It's officially a thing.

Speaker 46 We can't go back now.

Speaker 33 No, and I think England's dismal performance over in Perth is probably a good thing for the cricket clichés pod. What better time for a bit of light relief and frivolity?

Speaker 29 Might soften the Aussie bashing as well, which lots of people didn't like in episode one as well.

Speaker 43 But all feedback is good.

Speaker 29 And speaking of feedback, if you go to cricket.football clichés.com, you can submit your questions, your observations, and indeed your audio-visual material for the podcast to get stuck into in episode two.

Speaker 29 All episodes of Cricket Clichos will be right here on the Football Clichés feed as well over the next six weeks. So enjoy that if you like your cricket.

Speaker 39 Right, adjudication panel time.

Speaker 29 Arsenal's title chances, Charlie, after they beat Spurs in the North London Derby, and other, some of some of the other results went their way as well.

Speaker 29 What's the official current classification of their title chances?

Speaker 17 Well, yeah, let's go through some of the options. I mean, I think like theirs to lose feels like...

Speaker 50 They got Chelsea next?

Speaker 17 Chelsea next, yeah. So, and if Chelsea win, it's three points, it would be theirs to lose if they beat Chelsea, yeah.
You don't think it's theirs to lose already, okay? Well, there's theirs to lose,

Speaker 34 right on the line, yeah.

Speaker 17 There's Champions Elect, which I think is, I think it's premature,

Speaker 17 yeah, yeah, it's not there yet, but but I have heard, I mean, there are some people, it's funny, I definitely detect a slight thing of

Speaker 17 because obviously Arsenal fans are so nervous and neurotic about it because they haven't won it in so long.

Speaker 17 I do think that's being slightly exploited by non-Arsenal people who are now saying like, well, they've won it. They'll win it.

Speaker 6 Of course they'll win it. They'll absolutely win it.

Speaker 17 There's no way they can't win it. Slightly knowing that I don't think they fully believe that.
And it's in a slight like Gary Neville's done this before of being like, but they've got to win it now.

Speaker 17 They have to, they can't not win it now. And

Speaker 6 there's a lot going on.

Speaker 33 But I don't know. I think when the likes of Neville and Carragher get behind or sort of give their backing to like a newspaper with an election.
It is like the sun going coming out for Labour or

Speaker 33 it's a bellwether result.

Speaker 17 It was never what won it.

Speaker 39 Yeah, Paddy Power

Speaker 51 stopped the betting for Arsenal winning the title.

Speaker 19 I think I concur with John Cross on this one, actually.

Speaker 53 Arsenal completely dominant, put themselves clear at the top. Six ahead of Chelsea, seven ahead of Man City.
They're really in the driving seat now.

Speaker 29 I think Cross has got this bang on, Dave.

Speaker 54 Arsenal are in the driving seat because, you know, it's not even December yet.

Speaker 16 It is still early, yeah.

Speaker 17 Yeah.

Speaker 54 It is early.

Speaker 29 And six points isn't a decisive lead, especially if you've got to play the team behind you pretty soon. And, you know, a lot of hurdles yet to jump, I would say.

Speaker 11 So driving seat, I do like box seat could work as well.

Speaker 33 Yeah, driving seat works, I think. You're right.
It did feel significant, though.

Speaker 33 Like, felt it. Points, maybe they're not there yet.
Maybe it's too early. But...
And I'm not doing the thing you've just said people are doing, Charlie.

Speaker 16 But it does kind of feels like this is going to happen, right?

Speaker 17 It does, but it is funny. I mean, like, and this must just be to do with like the volume of what's said and written about every game.
But it is only like 12 games.

Speaker 17 It does feel further in the way it's being talked about. Like 12 games is still really early, but because every game nowadays is so kind of seismic, it feels like we're further on than that.

Speaker 29 Yeah, Arsenal's position at the top of the table was enhanced by Manchester City losing at Newcastle.

Speaker 29 Fascinating image after the game, Charlie, of Pep Guardihuller confronting the camera.

Speaker 55 Yeah.

Speaker 21 I haven't read up about this.

Speaker 16 I don't know if he was asked about it after the game, but I mean, obviously, this is the most pet thing of all time.

Speaker 6 I can't even imagine what he was saying to him or why he was confronting him or what he was doing i hope it was feedback about his performance yeah exactly maybe it was one of those like you were so so good you were so good great anger

Speaker 17 wow his his way like when he did it to redmond which was admittedly after a win but that like incredibly earnest manic like i love what you did and he is i mean he is like screaming at this guy so it's it's possible he's doing that either earnestly or in that incredibly passive-aggressive way that he does.

Speaker 13 I suppose one explanation for it, David, could could be because these cameramen can be very intrusive after the game.

Speaker 15 It's fair to say. Perhaps he was just in his face a bit.
I didn't see it, so I didn't see any sort of camera angles after the game, but that might be an explanation.

Speaker 29 Sort of get away from me and my players, like do your job properly.

Speaker 33 Yeah, I mean, but that happens every game.

Speaker 33 And also, obviously,

Speaker 33 up and down the country. It's not the first time Guardiola's done this sort of stuff.
I was looking for footage of this. I couldn't find any footage anywhere.
There seems to be only stills of this.

Speaker 6 Well, he's beyond the camera, isn't he?

Speaker 58 So you can't see it.

Speaker 6 Cameraman's like, get out.

Speaker 59 I want to film you.

Speaker 37 Yeah, can you be angry, but just move across, just get in shot and be angry.

Speaker 6 That's fine.

Speaker 17 That would be amazing if he had done it mid-shot, like as they were cutting away to ads, and you just see Pep getting closer and closer to the camera.

Speaker 15 I mean, as Dave points out, Charlie, this is the sort of thing that managers have to get used to at the top level, just cameras being around them.

Speaker 54 I'm sure we've mentioned on this pod before that, you know, one of the minor unspoken stresses of being a Premier League manager, especially if it's your first game, is having a camera go 180 degrees around you in the dugout and you not making sure you don't look into the lens as it hits you in the middle.

Speaker 17 There must be times when it is incredibly annoying.

Speaker 17 There was a textbook earlier this year, Danielle Collins, who said to have told to a cameraman, like, basically, please F off, like, get out of my space. This is really weird and a bit creepy.

Speaker 17 But even as a player, there must be times when you're walking off after like a really gutting loss and you're just like, just please, like, just leave me alone.

Speaker 17 I really don't want you like right up in my grill.

Speaker 33 The thing about this as well is that Pep's, like, he's got his hand on the headphone, like big over-ear headphones that the cameraman's got on.

Speaker 33 He's sort of pulling the headphones off to try and get his, get right into his ear. Yeah.

Speaker 40 It's so obviously going to be turned into a meme, isn't it? And anyway, yeah, look forward to those.

Speaker 21 Right, moving on.

Speaker 15 On Reddit, someone pointed out that Troy Parrot's week has only got better because Dublin Zoo, Charlie, have named a parrot after the Irish striker.

Speaker 8 I mean,

Speaker 13 they ask on Reddit, is this meeting the threshold of what a week he's having?

Speaker 40 I think it is.

Speaker 44 You've got to have an off-pitch development, evidence.

Speaker 17 I'm so glad this has come up because I was going to say exactly this last week when there was a lot of what a week he's having and I think for whatever reason we moved on.

Speaker 17 But yeah, that was exactly my thought. It can't just be football stuff.
Like there has to be some additional thing. And

Speaker 17 yeah, so this just edges it past that threshold.

Speaker 15 Yeah, he was never going to get the freedom of Dublin just yet, Dave.

Speaker 36 So having a parrot named after him was, yeah, yeah, that sort of light-hearted story works.

Speaker 33 It's a bit unfair on Dan Byrne, though, isn't it? I mean, he hasn't got any animals that can be named after him easily.

Speaker 17 like Troy Parrott.

Speaker 23 Yeah maybe a giraffe.

Speaker 29 I don't know.

Speaker 29 Troy Parrott also scored for RZ in their 3-1 defeat to Heron Vane at the weekend.

Speaker 16 Should that count towards what a week he's having if he scored in a defeat Dave?

Speaker 33 No, it doesn't really help does it unless it was an amazing goal or something.

Speaker 17 It definitely takes him to when he scored the who else but or that man.

Speaker 17 But yeah, I don't think it's what a week he's having.

Speaker 29 RTE, the Irish broadcaster Charlie, were sort of running through the fortunes of Irish players across the continent.

Speaker 29 They said Irish striker Evan Ferguson finally got off the mark for Roma to send them top of Seria, while Troy Parrott continued his red-hot form as he goaled for AZ Alkamar and a 3-1 defeat at Harinvan.

Speaker 42 He goaled. Very odd that.

Speaker 17 I mean, it's so weird that I'm like, is this an Irish thing? Are we going to be told

Speaker 17 people do use this? Because I've never, ever seen that before.

Speaker 25 I checked with Barry, our most trusted Irish listener, and he confirmed that he's never heard this.

Speaker 15 He said it might be something that the kids say, but it doesn't sound like something that would become a youthful phrase.

Speaker 29 No.

Speaker 26 If anything, it sounds more old-fashioned. Yeah.

Speaker 17 Or some trying to pretend they're down with the kids. Yeah.

Speaker 29 Dave, I mean, it does sound awkward at first, but then you think, you know, if you think of it another way, this could easily have become an established footballing phrase over the years.

Speaker 15 Gold as a verb.

Speaker 28 I mean, it's not that I don't like it, it's just obviously it's strange, but I can totally imagine it having caught on, and it could be something that we say in a parallel universe.

Speaker 33 Some great goaling from you today.

Speaker 64 He's gold again.

Speaker 6 He's done it. Golden.
I mean,

Speaker 17 meddled became a thing, didn't it? Yeah. Late on, it sort of was adopted.

Speaker 37 I think it's even less of a stretch than that.

Speaker 35 So, yeah, all right, RTE, you're off the hook for now.

Speaker 16 Time for footballers' names in things.

Speaker 52 This first one came from Harry Chenery.

Speaker 20 It's from new child kidnap drama All Her Fault.

Speaker 22 And someone's scrolling through their phone contacts.

Speaker 24 And right in the middle is Massimo Luongo.

Speaker 15 And just for a further twist, Dave, Massimo Luongo was on the camera and electrical department of the production.

Speaker 15 So it's an in-joke in the production, but it also happens to be a football design engine thing.

Speaker 37 So twists and turns.

Speaker 59 Unless they've

Speaker 33 sort of really laying it on thick there, and they've made up a crew member, such as their love for Massimo Luongo, they've got him in twice.

Speaker 17 Well, you can see all the real guys doing this on the side. Oh, yeah, maybe.

Speaker 17 Maybe.

Speaker 40 Yeah, what an athletic article that would be, by the way.

Speaker 8 Next one comes from Jack.

Speaker 29 It's from ITV heist series Frauds, starring Saran Jones as Bert, as the Spanish police finally track her and her partner partner down.

Speaker 29 Roberta Mancini. Nice.

Speaker 15 I mean, it has to be, has to be deliberate.

Speaker 60 As with all these situations, Charlie, they could have chosen so many names that logic suggests that this has to be a nod to football.

Speaker 17 Yeah, and there's the subtitles there, don't they? Say blonde hair and five for eight. So they haven't gone the whole hog.
It's a kind of like funny little thing.

Speaker 17 But yes, yes, you would think so.

Speaker 29 I don't know if Saran Jones is from Manchester, even let alone being a Manchester City fan.

Speaker 6 Yeah, not sure actually. Is she Scouser?

Speaker 33 Don't know.

Speaker 33 But it's an easily feminisable name as well, isn't it?

Speaker 35 Yes.

Speaker 29 Yeah, she's from Oldham, Greater Manchester, Chatterton, specifically.

Speaker 37 So could be a city fan.

Speaker 29 Can't be bothered to research it any further.

Speaker 33 She's not written the series.

Speaker 57 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6 Even if she is. Yeah, no, exactly.

Speaker 40 Yeah, it shouldn't be her who decides anyway.

Speaker 8 This final one comes from Joe Stokes.

Speaker 15 It's from the Well There's Your Problem podcast, an episode about the 20th U.S.

Speaker 28 President, James Garfield.

Speaker 65 So Garfield doesn't accomplish very much in his first four months, right?

Speaker 66 He does some more civil service reform, but it's kind of minor. He nominates Stanley Matthews to the Supreme Court.

Speaker 29 There's loads of footballers' names and things in historical U.S. politics.
But Stanley Matthews is a new one.

Speaker 26 That's pretty good.

Speaker 15 That's strong. But this gives me an opportunity to thank everyone for the 850 messages we've received about the fourth US President being called James Madison.

Speaker 60 You don't need to send it anymore.

Speaker 59 Yeah, I also get those.

Speaker 17 And I don't think that's really in the spirit of it. Like, that's a significant person.
That's more like footballers, you know, it's the other way round.

Speaker 17 It's not like, well, it's, I mean, James Madison, that's a President of the United States. That's not some, like, random name popping up in a sitcom.

Speaker 43 I think they're equally famous, I would say.

Speaker 17 Oh, I don't know about that.

Speaker 20 It depends where you are.

Speaker 17 No,

Speaker 33 footballer James Madison is way more famous than the fourth U.S. president.
You go down a high street today with a microphone and say, who's James Morrison?

Speaker 6 Who is he?

Speaker 33 People are going to say he's the total midfielder.

Speaker 6 Yeah, but go to America

Speaker 17 and most Americans, the vast, vast majority of Americans are going to have heard of James Madison.

Speaker 17 The fourth president.

Speaker 17 And I don't think Madison's that big in the U.S., though he does have other parts of the world. Maybe he's got more name recognition.

Speaker 29 Yeah, we need to run somewhere sort of culturally equidistant between the two countries.

Speaker 35 Can't think of anywhere.

Speaker 33 Can we commission a poll?

Speaker 6 The Gallup poll.

Speaker 40 I can't get enthusiastic for this either.

Speaker 8 Over to the USL championship final now between FC Tulsa and the Pittsburgh Riverhounds live on CBS.

Speaker 15 And Riverhounds goalkeeper, the 6'5-inch Eric Dick, commands his penalty area in stoppage time to take it to extra time.

Speaker 22 Mike Watts on commentary.

Speaker 50 St. Clair offers.

Speaker 6 Hatter into the air. Lucas came for it.
Derek rising to the occasion.

Speaker 6 Off his line.

Speaker 67 Back into the box. Dick has it again.

Speaker 6 Big from Dick.

Speaker 24 For God's sake.

Speaker 6 For Dick's sake.

Speaker 17 Hard to resist, I suppose.

Speaker 37 Hard to resist, Charlie, but also massively satisfying to say, clearly.

Speaker 17 I guess it's like a free hit, plausible liability for the commentator. Like, I can get away with, you know, making all the innuendo I've ever wanted to, and no one can do anything about it.

Speaker 33 And you can't just lightly take the edge off it. Like when Robin Koch was playing for Leeds, you know, you could sort of go cock, you know, you can just kind of take the edge off.

Speaker 61 Commentators have had their time with that as well, I can confirm.

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Speaker 15 Welcome back to football clichés and the adjudication panel.

Speaker 13 Dreamland subscribers, we're recording episode 12 this week and there's no suspense at all. It's Charlie's wet dream.

Speaker 16 It's Premier League years.

Speaker 15 This was what Dreamland was made for, wasn't it, Charlie?

Speaker 17 Yeah, I mean, I will be in Dreamland. Very much looking forward to it.

Speaker 8 This is a classic example, Dave, of something we've talked about constantly over the space of six years.

Speaker 15 But

Speaker 15 I think it's useful for us to bring everything we've together that we've ever discussed on Premier League years and discuss it as a phenomenon.

Speaker 33 This idea in in part came about after I was telling you two about how I stumbled across Premier League years 2013-14 the other night and genuinely had the best time. I was glued to the screen.

Speaker 33 There was so much good stuff in there.

Speaker 15 It was great.

Speaker 29 We are going to spend a very good seven to eight minutes talking about the sweet spot of which Premier League episode you want to pop up on Sky at 2 a.m.

Speaker 60 when you get in.

Speaker 20 If that sounds interesting to you, you can sign up for Dreamland at dreamland.football clichés.com for $5.99 a month.

Speaker 29 You'll get ad-free listening of all of our episodes and two episodes a month of Dreamland, our exclusive show.

Speaker 29 Other things as well, including merch, you can go to merch.footballcliches.com and peruse the collection.

Speaker 15 Big ripples in the European football broadcasting landscape this week, Dave.

Speaker 29 UEFA have announced their new broadcasting partners for 2027 onwards.

Speaker 15 Paramount Plus are going to be the new TNT sport for the Champions League. They're going to get Champions League coverage on Wednesday's first pick.

Speaker 44 So Paramount Plus.

Speaker 8 I mean,

Speaker 40 in the past, I would have said, oh it's weird.

Speaker 50 Oh it's gonna be so weird Champions League on Paramount Plus.

Speaker 26 They're just gonna transplant the whole lot.

Speaker 16 Tildsley's gonna be on it.

Speaker 27 Champion will be over there.

Speaker 15 They'd have still pick the same people won't they?

Speaker 33 Yeah you'd expect so. I I think it is a bit of a significant end of an era.

Speaker 33 You know when we did our Dreamland Champions League episode we talked about how much BT Sports slash TNT have really owned the Champions League for the last 10 years or so.

Speaker 33 So then losing it does feel quite big news. But yeah, like we'll quickly get used to whatever the coverage ends up being like on Paramount Plus, I'm sure.

Speaker 19 I've enjoyed Champions League on TNT, Charlie, personally, so I'm not going to say I'm sad because I don't care, but I mean, but you know, it's been a good run.

Speaker 17 It's coincided with a really great Champions League period. I do think that.
Like, they've had a disproportionate number of mad games.

Speaker 15 Yeah, Paramount have got a lot to live up to, even though it's completely out of their control.

Speaker 29 Meanwhile, Dave, Sky Sports have secured the rights to the Europa League and the Conference League.

Speaker 64 That seems like a massive commitment.

Speaker 8 We're talking about 300 games a year in these competitions, the majority of which nobody's going to give a shit about.

Speaker 54 It's a bit mad.

Speaker 33 I mean, you fear for TNT, don't you?

Speaker 59 What have they got left?

Speaker 17 12.30 Saturday Premier League games.

Speaker 6 That's the whole thing.

Speaker 17 That's coming up for renewal as well. Wow.

Speaker 17 It's a weird one, isn't it? And a lot of listeners have commented on that. Sky and the Conference League, especially.
And even Sky and the Europa. I don't know.
It feels like a weird sort of combo.

Speaker 17 Sky having been such like the premium product and the Conference League being a bit of this fringe, slightly bantery thing that people pop up and be like, I love the Conference League. It's great.

Speaker 6 But I guess it's a very sketchy deal, though.

Speaker 29 It comes as a bundle, surely, Dave. If you do the Europa, you've got to get a conference as well.

Speaker 13 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 17 But even the Europa is not massively sky at it.

Speaker 33 No, but there is some, in the latter stages, there's some, there is bits of glamour to be had. But I mean, Charlie, you say it's weird for Sky plumbing the depths of the Conference League.

Speaker 33 You obviously haven't watched too many Virtu trophy games on

Speaker 6 Sky.

Speaker 33 They'll do it.

Speaker 10 I don't think he has.

Speaker 6 You're absolutely right.

Speaker 33 You must have watched one. Spurs are in it at some point, but they're under 21s.
I don't think I have. You leave that to JPB, did you?

Speaker 17 Yeah, no, JPB would have delegated it as well.

Speaker 6 Right. No way he's answering that.

Speaker 19 Let's move on. This came from Sean, and he says, quite the list of names reeled off by Scott Minto on Talk Sport the other day as he talks about Benjamin Sheshko.

Speaker 70 And then you've got Benjamin Shesko.

Speaker 71 We're still waiting for. I know he's shown glimpses, but I've said this to you before.

Speaker 70 I still have it in the back of my mind.

Speaker 71 And it's going to take a little bit to change my mind. The fact that I know he had a little bit of an injury in that Grinsby game, but he was told don't take the penalty.

Speaker 71 Alan Shearer, Michael Owen, Robbie Fowler, Gabby Agbonlahor.

Speaker 71 You're not telling me they wouldn't step up. I don't care what you're saying.
I'm going to take the penalty.

Speaker 62 Being incredibly generous to, I presume, his on-air talks book colleague, Gabriel Agbonlahor there, Dave.

Speaker 15 A very strange name to throw in.

Speaker 8 in that context aside.

Speaker 33 Yeah, not a noted penalty taker, was he? Indeed.

Speaker 25 Indeed, he wasn't.

Speaker 15 Because Charlie, I looked this up.

Speaker 23 Agbonlahor Bonoho only took one penalty in a game in his entire career.

Speaker 15 It was a Premier League International Cup game against Celtic.

Speaker 29 He was playing as an overage player for Aston Villa under 23s in November 2016.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 47 You'll remember that one.

Speaker 15 That penalty was saved.

Speaker 41 But then I checked, because obviously the context here is about penalty shootouts.

Speaker 54 So I checked to see if Villa had been in any penalty shootouts during Ag Bonoho's 13-year career at Villa Park.

Speaker 49 And they'd only been in one, which is mad, actually.

Speaker 15 In 13 years, Villa had one penalty shootout. It was a Carlin Cup fourth-round shootout away at Sunderland.

Speaker 25 Again, his penalty was saved.

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 46 It's a mad record.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 17 It's a funny one there for Minto because you can see exactly what he's doing. And you're like, nine times out of ten, that thing you'll get away with.

Speaker 17 Just name-check an attacking player if talking about, you know, the things with attackers, they want to, they'll miss chance, but they'll go again. Or, you know, they thrive on goals.

Speaker 17 They'll be disappointed if the team's when they haven't scored. Like all of those like vague things you can just chuck out.
But this you actually can quantify. And yeah, the numbers don't look good.

Speaker 33 To be fair, Minto's point stacks up, then, doesn't he? He's only had one penalty shootout. He only had the opportunity to do it once and he stepped up.

Speaker 40 Yeah, I suppose the point was that he did indeed step up.

Speaker 26 Right, this next one comes from Gareth Davis.

Speaker 15 It's Wigan manager Ryan Lowe showing his appreciation for their away support.

Speaker 19 Gaffer, the search for an away when it's finally over.

Speaker 33 You must be delighted. Yeah, no, listen, please to the group and please for our fans because they've been travelling in the drones for many months now.

Speaker 41 I sympathise with him thinking it's drones because the more I think about it, Charlie, what is a drove?

Speaker 42 Like, I mean,

Speaker 28 we stop to think about what a drove could be.

Speaker 14 I mean, how many people should be a drove, for example?

Speaker 45 Actually, let's answer that.

Speaker 17 It is a funny one to get rid of, especially as you're transporting a measurement of something for a mode of transport. So it's a kind of unwitting sort of error that could almost make sense.

Speaker 39 I love the idea of Wiggin fans traveling to a wake-up drones, Dave.

Speaker 6 Well, one day they're bringing over the game.

Speaker 33 Yeah, and those flying cars finally arrive.

Speaker 20 Yeah, but little did I know, Dave.

Speaker 29 I've been taking the word drove for granted all these years.

Speaker 15 It comes directly from the word drive or driven because it's a herd or flock of animals being driven in a body.

Speaker 15 So, yeah, it just became a noun in the end.

Speaker 47 The verb became a noun, and it's simply a drove of, so a drove, a drove of cattle and a drove of coming in droves to a football game.

Speaker 54 So they were fantastic.

Speaker 17 It's impressive as well, the Wiganard travelling in their droves, because weren't they always mocked for having a small away support? Do you remember that when they were in the Premier League?

Speaker 17 They'd often have kind of empty away stands.

Speaker 17 So fair play to the Wigan fans.

Speaker 37 Yeah, it's a relative term, I guess. I mean, it could actually be could be hundreds.

Speaker 17 It'd be the same number, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 29 Yeah. An inevitable story spilled out of Scotland's heroics in World Cup qualification against Denmark the other night.
Joe Whittaker pointed me in the direction of this.

Speaker 15 A BBC story about how the British Geological Survey recorded the equivalent to an extremely small earthquake after Kenny MacLean lobbed Denmark goalkeeper Caspar Schmeichel to secure a 4-2 win.

Speaker 29 So we've seen these stories before, Charlie, sort of seismic activity being recorded when big goals go in. Okay, fine, got to be done.

Speaker 25 But the detail this article goes into is actually quite astonishing.

Speaker 15 The BGS said the activity registered between magnitude minus one and zero on the Richter scale and produced the equivalent of 200 kilowatts of power, enough to power between 25 and 40 car batteries.

Speaker 31 Okay.

Speaker 15 It's also the same as blasting a football at about 900 meters per second or 2013 miles per hour.

Speaker 19 Bit more relevant, I guess.

Speaker 48 That is about 15 times faster than the fastest a ball has ever been struck.

Speaker 15 Thought to be about 131.2 miles per hour by the Brazilian defender Ronnie Heberson in the Sporting Club de Portugal's win over Naval in 2007.

Speaker 17 I want to know more about that. I mean, that sounds extraordinary.

Speaker 6 I mean, who is Ronnie Heberson?

Speaker 20 Weird kind of chain reaction of comparisons here, Dave.

Speaker 50 I mean, we've gone at least three steps too far in this piece, surely.

Speaker 33 So, Ronnie Heberson, yes, very interested to know about him.

Speaker 6 Like,

Speaker 33 do they measure the shot power of every shot that happens? Like, in, you know, like in tests and little bits.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I mean, this feels a little bit, I don't know, I'm instantly a little bit skeptical of it.

Speaker 17 It feels a bit Pele, some of Pele's goal records that this is, you know, that we can unequivocally say this is the fastest a ball has ever been struck.

Speaker 29 I have watched this goal before, and it is astonishing how hard he hits it.

Speaker 15 But what I'm pretty confident about, Dave, is that they're not...

Speaker 29 sort of measuring this with a with a radar gun or something. It's done very analogue.

Speaker 62 It's basically how far out was he?

Speaker 29 How long did it take to breach the goal from his foot?

Speaker 15 And then they've done some crude calculation.

Speaker 29 But to do it to a point two miles per hour is very suspect to me.

Speaker 19 But yeah, it is an astonishing goal. It's not a spectacularly great goal in the grand scheme of things.

Speaker 15 It's just the sheer power of it is ridiculous.

Speaker 33 And then to go to the next point, blasting a football at 2,000 miles per hour. Do we think the modern balls would be able to withstand such force?

Speaker 72 Would they sort of just come over the place?

Speaker 11 Mid-air, or would they explode?

Speaker 33 What's hitting them to be able to go that fast?

Speaker 62 I'd love to see a ball go into a net at 2013 miles per hour.

Speaker 6 Would it break the net?

Speaker 48 Summerby did it in 1998.

Speaker 17 I do also listen to Michael Cox tweeted or put on Blue Sky, which I liked. I thought he made a good point: if it's not even positive on the Richter scale, can we really be talking about it?

Speaker 17 You know, it doesn't feel quite right. You know, it needs to be on the Richter scale properly, I think, for us to really be talking about it.

Speaker 22 I don't know how the Richter scale works, but how it can be minus one, I have no idea.

Speaker 62 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 24 Shook the other way. I don't know.
Absolutely no idea.

Speaker 33 Rates of reforming.

Speaker 6 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 16 Back to Pangea we go.

Speaker 24 Right.

Speaker 21 Over to the NFL we go.

Speaker 52 And this conundrum spread its wings over the last week or so.

Speaker 29 Matthew tweeted, Does soccer have a cultural equivalent to American football's establishing the run?

Speaker 29 This was got hold of by NFL UK's Instagram page, and they sent it out as well.

Speaker 15 So I felt like a lot of people sort of tagged us in, Dave, saying, like, surely you've got to rule on this.

Speaker 29 What is the soccer equivalent of establishing the run?

Speaker 8 At first, we had to figure out what establishing the run means, and that was no easy task.

Speaker 15 Our resident expert said it's basically getting the offensive team's running game going as early as possible, keeping the defensive team pushed back, and ideally tiring them out over the course of a game.

Speaker 47 So this instantly suggests to me a kind of daishy and pin them in the corner, get the ball up there earlier and get them on the back foot kind of style of play, Dave?

Speaker 33 The problem is, and despite my recent trip to Madrid to watch the NFL, I'm no expert at all when it comes to the sort of finer points of the game. But there does,

Speaker 33 even with learned fans of NFL, there doesn't seem to be a unified sort of understanding as to what establishing the run is. People can kind of look at it in different ways.
I asked someone,

Speaker 33 my friend and listener, Tommy, who likened it to winning the midfield battle in football.

Speaker 62 Right.

Speaker 33 Making sure you get out there and exert your influence on the opponent and you don't fold.

Speaker 33 But then I've seen other explanations about it's about establishing the run is about doing one thing so that you can then take advantage of their sort of them being knackered later on. Right.

Speaker 33 So then you can start pinging the throwing the ball around later on because they'll be so focused and so focused and so tired from defending the running game that then you can start doing more expansive stuff.

Speaker 33 And I'm trying to think like what's the equivalent of that in football?

Speaker 17 Well there there are lots of ways into, I mean yeah it doesn't sound like there's an exact comparison, but I do like there are teams like that.

Speaker 17 If you think of like the great ticky-tacker teams or some of Peps teams who would exhaust the opposition by keeping the ball, that idea of like, you know, death by a thousand passes.

Speaker 17 And then once you've done that, once it gets, you know, you'll say like, oh, you know, 70 minutes, they haven't had the ball. They've just been, you know, chasing it.

Speaker 17 And then, you know, that's when mistakes happen, you know, tired minds, you've kind of worn them down. And then in Adam's example, I mean, yeah, because

Speaker 17 with the territory element, I do remember like Aladyce's Bolton at the Reebok.

Speaker 17 They would be incredibly good at playing it into, you know into good areas and then picking up the seconds and just keeping you pinned back in a very sort of almost like a rugby kind of territory way.

Speaker 17 And that was really difficult to deal with. And that would be kind of draining and exhausting in a different way over time.

Speaker 15 I mean it basically, you know, the separate argument it opens up, Dave, is

Speaker 29 passing in football kind of analogous in its cultural appreciation as passing is in American football?

Speaker 44 Or is running in American football the equivalent of passing in soccer?

Speaker 15 Which explains why, as you say, there's no consensus about this in the replies to the original tweet.

Speaker 29 Half of people are saying it's Brexit ball, it's getting it over the top, turning the defence and making them and pinning them back and making them think about that.

Speaker 21 And loads of other people are saying, no, it's keeping the ball and exhausting the opposition and making them chase it.

Speaker 26 So just two ways of looking at this, which I quite like.

Speaker 55 That's interesting.

Speaker 17 That kind of poles apart in footballing terms.

Speaker 29 Skinny jeans, flared jeans.

Speaker 61 In the NFL.

Speaker 19 Right, this is from a BBC report about Liverpool in the aftermath of their defeat to Nottingham Nottingham Forest at the weekend.

Speaker 19 It says, the cloak of invincibility that Liverpool carried last season has been replaced by a soft underbelly.

Speaker 21 A cloak of invincibility.

Speaker 59 That wouldn't work at all, Dave.

Speaker 33 What something of invincibility could you have?

Speaker 16 Aura of?

Speaker 17 Yeah, I was going to say, I think it would be like the sheen or the veneer of invincibility or something like that. I don't think it would be like, but a physical item is exactly what it is.

Speaker 6 I was about to say she.

Speaker 24 And I've got

Speaker 59 keysy flashbacks.

Speaker 45 I'm glad you didn't say that. But yeah, there is no such thing as a cloak of invincibility, which I don't know.

Speaker 56 It would just get in the way unless it was made of Kevlar then I suppose that would count as well

Speaker 29 elsewhere in the Premier League leads fail to defeat at home to Aston Villa on Sunday Charlie and I have to say I am already somehow really bored by both the sacking of Daniel Farker, which is inevitable, and all the coverage of it.

Speaker 29 It might be the most shoulder shrug managerial sacking in Premier League history.

Speaker 17 It's funny you say that. I was talking about this last week on Totally.

Speaker 17 I was like, and this is harsh on him, but it's like, it just feels like they've kind of been waiting for the point at which they can get rid of him. Like, we all knew this was coming.

Speaker 17 And Forrest and West Ham being crap, delayed it. But now they're obviously sorting themselves out.
So leads are where everyone sort of knew they would be.

Speaker 17 And there's going to be this inevitable sacking. That it was basically just a, like it really did feel like a question of when.
And here we are.

Speaker 33 So that game yesterday, which they went 1-0 up in, that's the sort of game that they needed to win in order for them to play their part in the scenario we've been discussing lately about if you had a high-effectual season with no managers getting sacked, you need leads to just like win those odd games to relieve the pressure.

Speaker 33 Then they can be crap again for a few weeks, but then they can win one, but they failed.

Speaker 54 There's no drama to this.

Speaker 28 He won't have been treated shabbily.

Speaker 49 He's not even that beleaguered.

Speaker 16 He's not like standing out in the rain as they lose 6-0. There's nothing of that.
It's just, can you just, yeah, see you later.

Speaker 58 Exactly.

Speaker 36 And he's just forgotten about by everybody.

Speaker 17 It's just been the slow, inevitable march towards us. Because if he had gone in the summer, then there could be the treated shabbily.

Speaker 17 But he's just got you promoted. Like, that feels harsh, even though everyone kind of knew it would have been not.
you know, not a mad decision.

Speaker 17 But yeah, this is just, we've given you a chance, kind of wasted everyone's time.

Speaker 25 See you later.

Speaker 40 He hasn't lost the dressing room.

Speaker 33 The players are just like, dunno whatever whatever we like which is quite hard isn't it up to you really yeah

Speaker 29 yeah but i'm even more bored actually by the idea of speculating who he might go and manage next i i suspect he's he's gonna have at least eight more cracks at the sort of championship premier league cycle dave i feel like he could easily go back to norwich i could see him at cheffer wednesday so vividly chef wedding mate come on chef wedded like chef chef or wednesday under new owners dave aiming for to to reconsolidate themselves in the championship, maybe even push for Premier League under their new American consortium or something like that.

Speaker 11 They realise they need someone who's done it before, got promotion.

Speaker 54 He gets them promoted and he gets sacked straight away because they go for someone like, I don't know, Mancini or something like that.

Speaker 6 That's a great shout.

Speaker 33 You could, yeah, they would need a new ownership for sure. I mean, I could see...
Birmingham could possibly go for him in the same vein.

Speaker 33 If they get rid of Chris Davies at some point, and not that they would at the moment, but just any ownership group looking out there and going, well, who's the guy that gets gets you promoted from the championship?

Speaker 15 And it is him, basically, isn't it, at the moment? I mean,

Speaker 28 I don't know if it's over-mythologised or not.

Speaker 8 I feel like getting promoted from the championship is a specialist job. It's being well established, Charlie.

Speaker 16 Maybe it is a thing.

Speaker 37 Maybe that is a sensible thing to do. He gets teams promoted from the championship.
Loads of managers have been characterised by that and not been good enough to manage in the Premier League.

Speaker 41 And it's because it's just a completely different job. So maybe that is a specialism, like being a set piece coach.
You're a promotion. coach.

Speaker 50 That's what you do.

Speaker 17 Just keep doing it and then move on.

Speaker 18 Yeah, fine with that. I'm alright with it.

Speaker 28 But yeah, I'm just incredibly bored by the whole concept of Daniel Fuarco.

Speaker 24 I feel it really intensely. I have to say, I don't think anyone's gonna be offended by this, which is really good, which is why I get to say it.

Speaker 33 But on that vein, it'd be good if he embraced that as well. So, like, at the end of the season, got your promotion.
Right, cheers, guys. Thanks very much.
Yeah,

Speaker 6 owns it. All the best.
Good luck. Yep.

Speaker 19 I'm job done, I think. Anything else you need? No.

Speaker 58 Do you want me to run over some recruitment? Nah, don't worry. It's all right.

Speaker 6 Don't worry about it, mate.

Speaker 41 Right.

Speaker 37 Let's stay in the championship then, because Charlton versus Southampton.

Speaker 23 Here is Saints in-house co-commentator Joe Tessam going in for a comparison that he wasn't really sure about and didn't really finish off either. And Saints have two goals in just over a minute.

Speaker 12 And the valley, lovely play again, Leo Cienza at the heart of it with a driving direct run down the middle of the park.

Speaker 31 Leo Cienzo just turns one player, turns another, runs the inside off him, just lay him to dust at him. It's like you're driving a porce against

Speaker 31 an old car.

Speaker 59 I suppose it is harder to think of older, rubbisher car brands than it is about supercars, I guess.

Speaker 17 What's so funny as well, and that's this is a classic example of someone who speaks absolutely perfect English, but any English, someone who's from England, would have the word banger, they would just chuck in the word banger, which is just not, it's not quite in his incredible English.

Speaker 17 But that's where you'd go. If you couldn't think of an actual brand, you'd just say an old banger.
Like we all kind of know that.

Speaker 17 And even though it's very antiquated language, you'd sort of get away with it. But old car is just amazing.

Speaker 39 You know, if this was Family Fortunes, Dave, what is the number one choice for the car brand here to go for against the Porsche?

Speaker 6 Is it

Speaker 59 Ford Fiesta?

Speaker 72 Maybe?

Speaker 6 Escort.

Speaker 39 They're like the Phil Neville's of cars.

Speaker 24 They're not Morris Minor.

Speaker 24 Morris Minor is spot on. I knew it was going to be.

Speaker 19 I was waiting for it to come up. I didn't even need to say it.

Speaker 24 Morris Minor.

Speaker 6 Well, remember that. I mean,

Speaker 17 not that long ago, I think Skoda would have popped up there, but they've done such an impressive rebrand that you wouldn't go with that anymore.

Speaker 50 I've really turned things around, Skoda.

Speaker 28 They were genuinely the playground draft. Have you really?

Speaker 6 Yeah, that's my card.

Speaker 17 And I could absolutely stand by it. It's great.

Speaker 6 But I remember growing up, it was an absolute gag car. It really was.

Speaker 17 Yeah.

Speaker 33 On Joe Tessim. And great accent there, by the way, as well.

Speaker 16 A man in a Norwegian who's been in England for years.

Speaker 33 I had a look at his career. And George Ellick, I should credit him.
He was the guy that pointed me in the direction of this.

Speaker 33 And he played in non-league for 12 years, like after he sort of wound up at Bournemouth, had four games according to Wikipedia at Eastleigh, and then had like well over 100 games for Totten and Ealing.

Speaker 33 And then played another four years, over 50 games for Hyde and Dibden.

Speaker 33 It's not often you see like non-league careers, like you often see players who play a couple of games here and there for small clubs and then think, wow, can I really be asked? Fair play.

Speaker 33 Racking up over 100 games for Totten and Ealing, whatever level they were at.

Speaker 40 Yeah, they're not even the biggest team in Totten, are they?

Speaker 15 AFC Totten are surely bigger than them.

Speaker 34 I hope I'm right on that one. But wow, yeah.

Speaker 15 Fair play to turning yourself into a non-league journeyman.

Speaker 29 It must be just great, though, Charlie. Just like taking yourself down a few notches and operating at that level.
It's like you going on totally.

Speaker 17 Him just absolutely bossing it.

Speaker 33 He would be like a Porsche playing against all the Morris Minors, presumably, in that team.

Speaker 17 With that pedigree, he must have been an early athletic interview, Joe Tessam.

Speaker 6 In fact, I'm pretty sure I remember that.

Speaker 17 He did, wasn't he? Yeah, he was. He's gone.

Speaker 47 Yeah, I don't mind that. Don't mind that.

Speaker 17 Yeah, non-league, former sort of cult hero at a Premier League club.

Speaker 6 Idea.

Speaker 64 He pays his subs.

Speaker 6 He watches the kit.

Speaker 64 He's just like, he's just one of the lads.

Speaker 25 And you wouldn't know.

Speaker 15 But yeah, he can tell.

Speaker 54 You can tell.

Speaker 16 Right, Idris Elba.

Speaker 19 Dave, football fan?

Speaker 6 I think so. You think so?

Speaker 33 Yeah, without any specific knowledge, I just can picture him. I'm sure I've seen him at a game or something at some point.

Speaker 15 You reckon he knows knows ball?

Speaker 25 Let's find out. Here he is interviewing Eberechi Eza for Sky Sports.

Speaker 73 Because you come with a lot of experience, you've been playing all your life.

Speaker 73 Mikel's team's a young team. There's lots of, you know what I mean, like teething things that were happening.
So I was really excited when you came. So at the time now, at Crystal,

Speaker 74 was it a good situation? How was you feeling about that?

Speaker 33 So been at Crystal Palace for five

Speaker 3 years?

Speaker 6 Wow. Wow.

Speaker 15 That's it really jumps out, doesn't it?

Speaker 45 That's poor prefixing.

Speaker 29 That really, really exposes you, doesn't it?

Speaker 17 It is, yeah, Chris.

Speaker 43 All the prefixes to choose. Oh, dear.

Speaker 21 Shame.

Speaker 26 Didn't go for Chris Powell.

Speaker 6 Exactly.

Speaker 10 That made me think of that as well. Poor old Idris Helper.

Speaker 15 Anyway, next up, this came from Armour, who was watching Philadelphia Union versus New York City FC in MLS. It's a fairly even contest as we reach the midpoint of the first half.

Speaker 31 Possession

Speaker 65 right down the middle to this point.

Speaker 6 As you alluded to, Pascal Jansen expected to have the yeoman's share of it in this game.

Speaker 16 There you go.

Speaker 54 So we've had lion's share, but we never knew what would be a more balanced, even share.

Speaker 49 And it says it's the yeoman's share.

Speaker 18 Is that a thing?

Speaker 50 Is that a term?

Speaker 15 I mean, this is the problem these days. You can put pretty much anything into Google, and it pretends to know that it exists, which is really frustrating to me.

Speaker 63 It claims it's derived, Dave, from yeoman's work, which means you've done most of the hard work.

Speaker 15 It's a bit like you producing this podcast and being on it.

Speaker 29 You've done the yeoman's work for this podcast.

Speaker 33 So

Speaker 44 you'd expect. Can I get that on record from you?

Speaker 33 I do the yeoman's share, do I?

Speaker 6 In the invoice?

Speaker 17 Absolutely. Yeoman.

Speaker 29 Yeah, so yeah. Lions are not an endangered species when it comes to dominating possession in football.
It's more about the yeoman.

Speaker 37 Medieval hard workers, basically.

Speaker 21 Not quite the peasants.

Speaker 44 They were just one rung above them, apparently. Okay.
So there you go.

Speaker 29 Fair play.

Speaker 52 Interesting.

Speaker 19 Right, a couple more things.

Speaker 29 Tom Woodhouse pointed me in the direction of the BBC match report for Fulham's win over Sunderland, and it contained the passage that read, Fulham have quietly gone about having a poor season, but their home record could be enough to avert a relegation battle.

Speaker 26 Can you quietly go about having a poor season, Charlie?

Speaker 17 I really like, this is a really good example of like you, I know exactly what they mean with this.

Speaker 17 Like, it has sort of been under-reported and not that noticed that they have sort of low-key been having really bad results. But just the language, that's just not something you quietly go about.

Speaker 17 It's like under the radar. Like, you just don't, even though it makes sense, I don't think you would talk about like, you know, they've been going under the radar.
They've been really bad.

Speaker 17 Like, that just would sound very odd, even though the meaning of it is, it kind of makes sense.

Speaker 8 You could be sleepwalking, Dave.

Speaker 6 Exactly, it's sleepwalking.

Speaker 64 Traditionally, isn't it?

Speaker 17 But that's it. That's exactly it.
Like, that's what exists for this.

Speaker 6 It's sleepwalking.

Speaker 17 It's not quietly going about having a porsey.

Speaker 33 But it's also, it's not even, it's not even a whisperer quietly, I don't think, is it?

Speaker 33 Because you might phrase it as like, listen, look, nobody's really talking about this, but Fulham are really bad this season. Yeah.
You'd have to sort of put a bit more emphasis on it, wouldn't you?

Speaker 52 I really want my Premier League Charlie to have a team who I couldn't even begin to tell you what their last six results were either way.

Speaker 15 And Fulham are that team for me.

Speaker 47 I would never have any clue whether in good form or bad form unless you directly tell me.

Speaker 29 And I want my Premier League to have at least one team like that right in the middle.

Speaker 17 Everton this season, a little bit have been that as well. Right.

Speaker 17 They're completely sort of mid of the road like been fine but yeah I mean but yeah for Fulham are often kind of that team because they're very rarely they're probably the team who over the last few years have been never in relegation trouble never and really in the hunt like you know they're vaguely in the hunt but never properly in the hunt for the European spot so they are kind of perfect for a quietly going about their bad business in this case.

Speaker 29 Yes and still to me Dave Fulham still right only just on the cusp of being Premier League furniture in the grand scheme of the last 35 years of the Premier League.

Speaker 16 I just feel like they're not quite quite there, despite the Europa League stuff, despite

Speaker 26 the baggage that goes with Fulham.

Speaker 33 Oh, what a great place to go and watch football and that sort of stuff.

Speaker 50 But I still don't think of them as a core member yet.

Speaker 63 And I feel like they just need

Speaker 6 to make more of a ripple.

Speaker 24 I don't know.

Speaker 42 Just be around even more. That's it.

Speaker 21 They've been around. They've been around long.

Speaker 6 I know. I know.
That's the one thing they created being is just being around.

Speaker 16 Around.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 44 Just yo-yoed in the middle.

Speaker 57 That is a good question, though.

Speaker 17 When people do their kind of like totally arbitrary, these are the 20 clubs you want in the Premier League. I wonder...

Speaker 63 Are Fulham in yours?

Speaker 17 Oh, I think they would be, but I'm just trying, like, there are clubs that sort of, you know, like Sheffield Wednesday for a lot of people, oh, you want them in the Premier League.

Speaker 6 Even though they haven't been in for ages, but they're still sort of in that conversation.

Speaker 17 Just like, you know. big ground, big history.

Speaker 37 Yeah, there's a bit of nostalgia that goes into this, sort of slightly blinkered.

Speaker 16 But anyway, this BBC article was later edited, Dave, to say Fulham are having a poor season.

Speaker 59 Someone they're sore sense at the BBC.

Speaker 13 There you go.

Speaker 33 There's nothing quite about it.

Speaker 29 Yeah.

Speaker 19 Right, I want to end on a For My Sins Corner, a rare late doors For My Sins Corner.

Speaker 52 This came from Rob Derbyshire, who was listening to our Goalhanger staple mates, We Have Ways of Making You Talk, and they're exploring the lives of submarinemen during World War II.

Speaker 19 So at some point during this clip, someone's going to utter the immortal words for my sins, and I want you to jump in when you think it's about to be uttered.

Speaker 75 A lot of them, you know, skin infections, absolutely rife because of the damp, because of the conditions. They had cockroaches on board, of course, because cockroaches are everywhere.

Speaker 75 So they used to sort of, you know, infect the skin because they bite the skin as well. I mean, it's absolutely atrocious.

Speaker 75 This kind of the idea of actually trying to tell that, I thought, wow, I've got to do that. Again, just

Speaker 75 a sort of last point on this. I was talking to my in-laws.
My mother-in-law is German for my sins.

Speaker 31 And we had a family lunch.

Speaker 75 I'd already started working.

Speaker 6 That's not for you to say.

Speaker 39 Charlie chucking in a completely speculative Richarlison from the halfway line for my sins there, which fair play.

Speaker 21 Worth a go, I would say.

Speaker 39 You had no right to score from there.

Speaker 6 But.

Speaker 17 No, I did. Yeah, because I was sort of waiting for him to maybe say that he'd had a disease or something at some point.
Right. And that he seemed to move on from there.

Speaker 59 I had scurvy for my sins.

Speaker 17 Initially, a part of me thought, is this going to be a sort of callback to the hamstring injuries and

Speaker 17 in military skirmishes that we discussed last week but you can't say you can't his mother-in-law could say that if she so wanted i don't think you say that about your own mother-in-law would it have been worse dave to say for her sins yeah i was just thinking that i think it is a bit worse to say that actually yeah you're taking the you're taking it on yourself there

Speaker 54 because it just becomes a mother-in-law joke not a being german joke which would be far more problematic i imagine but yeah okay well tantalizing battle that was uh a 0-0 draw we'll call that um thanks to you charlie eccleshair thank you thanks to you david Walker.

Speaker 18 Thank you.

Speaker 8 We'll be back on Thursday with the Football Clichés Quiz 22 and a special Christmas announcement.

Speaker 15 We'll see you then.

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