Premier League season preview: Leeds to Wolves: Football Weekly

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Hello, welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, part two of the Premier League predictions.

We've replaced a Lou and a JJB with a Wilson and a Bruin.

Can leads become a force again in the Premier League?

To do that, they have to stay in the Premier League.

Can Daniel Farker surprise even his owners and do it this time around?

Liverpool have recruited bigly and well, although the Community Shields second half might have the experts rethinking a second title in a row.

Could Man City win the title?

Pep is still Pep.

They've bought some more after going big in January, but have they fixed the defensive frailties that cost them last year?

What of Manchester United?

Big Sir Jim has given Ruben Amarim cash and he's brought in some fun players.

But how heavy will the shirt weigh on this lot?

Newcastle have not won the window, but they still have Eddie Howe.

Forest have been promoted to the Europa and have kept Morgan Gibbs White.

Blink twice, Morgan, if everything's okay.

Will Thomas Frank add more trophies after Ange opened the floodgates?

Brackett's note: we are recording before Spurs Hammond PSG on Wednesday night.

And how nervous should West Ham and Wolves fans be, not only for their seasons, but the fact that yet again, the alphabet has cost them and will have run out of time to do them justice?

This is the Guardian Football Weekly.

On this panel, Barry Glenn Denning again, welcome.

Hi, Max.

Joining us as well.

Jonathan Wilson, hello.

Morning, how are you doing?

I'm very well.

And John Bruin.

Hello.

So, yeah, the hot takes that you missed from yesterday, chaps, is that

Barry and Jordan both relegated Everton.

I don't know how you feel about that one.

New stadium, more misery is the vibe you're going for.

That's the vibe.

That was my most surprising thing.

Well, even deeper misery, I suppose, would be the way of putting it.

Thoughts, Wilson?

I mean,

obviously, I speak slightly with my Sonoma hat on here.

You're looking at teams who might be worse than Sonland this season.

I wouldn't have Everton top of that list, but they are on that list.

So there we are.

Sorry, Everton fans.

Let's begin this part with Leeds.

They have brought in a lot of players who I have never heard of, and hopefully some of you have.

They begin at home to Everton.

They go to Arsenal, Newcastle, Fulham, and Wolves in their opening game.

They won the championship last year.

John, you said in a recent podcast, you'd be happy to see leads back in the Premier League, existing in the Premier League.

You didn't necessarily say you want them to be successful.

I like the idea of a Yorkshire and Proud club.

I'm all for devolutions to the regions.

Funny enough, Leeds have this sort of diaspora of fans from right across the span

of Australia because of the Duke and Keel.

Yeah, yeah, and also from if you go from like almost like Lincoln across to West Yorkshire, they have this sort of

a certain type of fan.

But

obviously, the 1970s and

maybe the early 90s have given them that cachet.

And they're something of a fallen giant of English football.

And it's nice to see them back.

And, you know, this season,

it's going to be difficult again, I think.

It's because, I mean,

they don't have the Bielsa magician.

Daniel Farker is a good manager.

He's a great manager in the championship.

We know that.

And I think, as I've said before, there will be,

if leads struggle early doors, considering the fact that the owners considered replacing him at the end of the season i think you know farcer is going to be a manager under some pressure from the very start he knows that he knows the game and he'll accept it and he'll accept the challenge um i'd like to see him do well yeah i think we all hope that the promoted sides make a better fist of it than last season but i've sensed like it they might have more chance and specifically with leads how do you see them i know they finished level on points with burnley but they were certainly the better side to watch last season.

I think it's interesting what Burnley have done that that they sort of play the defensive football last season, they probably will have to play this season.

Leeds are much more traditional, we're better in the championship, we're going to attack them.

And I remember the game when Sunday played at Ellen Road, which would have been what the March time.

And Sundom were 1-0 up till 70-something a minute, ended up losing 3-1 because Leeds had Mena Solomon, Dan James, but then they could bring on Abatani and Willie Nanto.

No other team in the championship had that level of attacking quality.

But that sounds very different when you put it in the Premier League context.

So, you know, Daniel Farket is third crack at the Premier League.

I think Vicente before was his teams were quite good going forward, but not necessarily that good at the back.

And I think that could easily be the problem again.

They have a place Ilan Melier, which I think was necessary.

Whether Lucas Perry is a significant improvement or not, we'll find out.

Lucas Perry suckling.

Could he be that?

Oh, yeah.

How do you see leads sparing, Paz?

I think they'll struggle.

I think they'll be in a group of six or seven that will

relegated three will come out.

I do think they'll go back down, but I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they stayed up.

This guy, Anton Stack, they've brought in the defenses midfielder from Hoffenheim.

I've heard people raving about him.

I don't know much about him myself.

They've brought in Sean Longstaff from Newcastle, who's a decent player, but

he's getting on a bit, I think.

Is he?

Is he going to be a little bit more?

Don't tell me Sean Love.

27.

Okay.

I'm getting on a bit.

Who am I thinking?

He was born in 97.

He's 27.

Right.

Well, actually, one point to bring him up.

Yeah.

He's a perfectly decent midfielder, but I don't know if he'll start in that

side.

It'll probably be stack Ampidu in the heart of the Leeds first choice midfield.

There are question marks over Farke, obviously, but this is a different proposition, I think, to Norwich.

Carroll Road's quite a gentle environment.

Ellen Rhodes and barely.

They wouldn't say that, you know.

I mean, Carroll Road can get going, you know.

Not like Ellen Road, but yeah.

I've been to Carroll Road a few times.

Well, look, everyone is saying, you know, the Ellen Road factor is a big factor.

Yeah.

And I think.

No one's ever said the Carroll Road factor.

In any other world, I'd like to see them do well, but I want them to be worse than Sunderland.

Whether they are or not, is anyone's guess.

Do you have a player, a Japanese player, Tanaka,

who I'd really looking forward to seeing in the Premier League?

He was really good in the championship that season.

Declan Rice is a huge fan of his.

Right.

So that shows you that he says he said, I'm really looking forward to seeing play in the Premier League next season.

So watch out for him.

Okay, where have you got them, John?

17th.

17th, Barry?

18th.

Jonathan.

I haven't written numbers down, so 17th.

Okay.

Numbers feel like an important point.

Yeah, that's the thing.

I've just put them in order.

You literally have one job.

Okay, I had to.

I just thought I'd be reading out the table at the end.

I didn't realise I didn't.

I have to kind of.

Well, I have them 15th.

I'm trying to keep Leeds and Sunderland up.

I'm trying to do that.

Yeah.

I mean, I would say of the 20 teams in the league, Leeds are probably the one I know the least amount about.

They're very much good.

I mean, the bar there is high or low

uh well that is the kind of condescending comment i was expecting which is

predictable but entirely unfair i didn't want to put you there are 20 teams in the premier league i know a lot more about some of them than i know about others leads are the one i know least about i didn't want to get on the wrong side of you barry this early in this podcast will you accept my apologies Well, is it sincere?

It is sincere yes.

I don't think it is.

It is sincere.

Right, okay.

I'm a big fan of yours barry i spent too much time with you not to be at liverpool have obviously brought in a lot florian vertz you go a katike milos kirkis jeremy frimpong alexander isak not yet but you know yeah the rumours suggest he will get there obviously louis diaz gerald quonsha cleaven keller train alexander arnold have gone and of course they lost diogo jotta uh in that tragedy uh they begin at home to bournemouth on friday night they go to newcastle arsenal burnley and everton we've talked a lot about Liverpool already, Wilson.

Has what you saw at the Community Shield changed any of your thoughts on them?

Well slightly.

So I thought that I know I wrote a piece last

Saturday last Saturday night's website and now that there is no Sunday paper suggesting that the the level of change is not just that it brought in four players, five layers, spinning side of you count, it's the nature of the players they brought in, that that probably would take time to settle.

And even if that goes perfectly, it's a process that'll take four or five weeks, it could cost them four or five points and if it is a tight title race, that could be decisive.

You look at the squad, particularly if VSAC joins, it looks incredibly exciting, but they're changing shape.

They're going from more of sort of a 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 hybrid to a 4-2-3-1.

That puts more pressure on the two players at the back of midfield.

I'm not sure that that's going to be an easy process.

I know that on Sunday, Gravenberg wasn't there, McAllister wasn't fit enough to start.

The area is going to be under pressure.

You haven't even got your first two choice players there.

But that's why I think Van Dijk kept on getting dragged forward into that space where Gravenberg should be.

So that, I think, was was all quite predictable.

What I hadn't sort of appreciated was the issue that we're going to have getting the ball to Mohammed Salah, which I think is partly because Alexander Arnold was so good at that, that you sort of, not you took his passing for granted, but those sort of 30, 40 yard accurate passes that he would play, which would get the ball to Salah quickly, get Salah breaking, there's not really anybody there to do that now.

Frimpong is a totally different type of fullback.

He's always going to go on the outside.

That should suit Salah in that he wants to come infield, so that creates space, creates that channel for Finpong to go outside.

But you then have to balance that defensively.

And also,

Salah coming infield needs to center forward to get out of the way.

And Ekatike,

so

it was the worst of both worlds.

He got out of the way in the sense he spent a lot of his time over on the left, but he wasn't getting out of the way in the sense of dropping deep, creating the space for Salah.

So Salah was left very isolated.

So I don't think it's a massive issue, but it is an issue that

needs fixing.

And therefore, I've kind of slightly downgraded my estimation of him.

I was I was at the Community Shield.

I would echo much of what Jonathan says, but you have to trust Arna Slott.

When Liverpool appointed him, when Richard Hughes turned to him, they did so because they thought he was one of the best tacticians in the game.

He's obviously will have seen what's gone wrong in the Community Shield.

He seemed pretty unflustered by that.

But as Jonathan said, the title race may come down to small margins.

Now,

I watched Florian Vertz, and, you know, he's not a Rolls-Royce of a player, he's a Mercedes-S-Class.

You know, that's the

he is a brilliant player.

God, it was like, okay, this guy is special.

But there may be some sort of Juan Sebastian Veron vibes in there, you know, where he's so good.

And the fans are going to love him.

Remember how Liverpool fans were with Tiago and Cantaro?

Just like, oh, you know, this guy, you know, mesmeric, I think was the word that they used.

Oh, the way Thiago kicks the ball, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it didn't quite work, did it?

Because it didn't quite work with the way that Liverpool had become used to their team playing.

And if you put a player like that who is so,

by his nature, dominant, it may take time for the rest of the team to fit around him.

And Salah, in that game.

But that's not to say it would happen in every game.

Salah was isolated.

Now, Salah has been a player that's carried them for many years.

And also, Burt's being in a team, as Jonathan said, also meant Virgil Van Dijk, the other

totem of the team, is pulled into that position.

So there's a balance that needs to be struck there.

And I suppose it's a question of how long it takes for Slot to find the solution to that.

Barry, Liverpool.

I suppose the one thing to add is they look very light in central defence.

If anything happens, Canate

or Virgil, then I could see that being a problem.

Obviously, there's 20 days of the transfer window remaining, so that they may bring in someone.

Mark A has been talked about.

I think in pre-season they've had Andy Robertson do a shift in the heart of defence.

Gravenburg has played in the heart of defence.

Maybe Endo as well can do a job.

But I do think they are at the moment completely over-reliant on Canate and Van Dijk, which is fine as long as they're fit.

But if either of them suffered a

injury that was going to keep them out for a long period, I could see that being a problem.

But otherwise, I think they'll retain their title.

You have them first.

I have them third.

Wilson.

Third.

Bruis.

Second.

Second.

Okay, how exciting.

Okay, then Manchester City,

who've brought in Rinders from AC Milan, Ryan Ecknori is coming from Wolves, Ryan Cherky as well from Leon, James Trafford from Burnley, and Sver Naipan, a midfielder from Rosenberg.

They've obviously lost Kevin De Bruyne and Carl Walk.

A lot of experience in there.

They begin at Molyneux, then they play Spurs, Brighton, Man United, and Arsenal in their opening five games presume Barry the hunger will be back for City yeah I'd imagine so obviously every city preview has to be accompanied by the big charges asterisks I think much of their city this is it's kind of pep's third iteration of city isn't it with no debris now much will depend i suspect on whether phil foden has a good season or not he was weirdly bad last last season.

I thought he needs to step up.

I suspect the signings they've brought in, I suspect James Trafford will definitely challenge Ederson for the first choice goalkeeper position.

They've just got so many good players.

There's no real mega buck signing.

They're all around the 50-60 million mark, I think.

I think they will challenge for the title, but I don't think they'll win it.

I could also see them finishing maybe 9th or 10th.

I don't know.

Well, Johnny Lou had them sixth, Wilson, which surprised me.

But how do you and I think they will win the title this year?

I certainly have them top.

But how do you see them going?

And how do you see them changing from what went wrong last year?

The signings both in January and the summer reflect this.

I think they probably tried to get away with one year too many, with

too many players who were getting towards the end.

Rodri being injured obviously was the huge issue, and I think a lot depends on how well he comes back.

I mean, if Rodri is back at his imperious best, then absolutely no reason why they shouldn't win the title.

I think a lot depends as well on Guadiola.

That

he clearly found last season very difficult.

That interview he gave to GQ,

he sounded very tired.

He was talking about the break he was going to have when his contract's up in 2027.

Well, he didn't specifically say when his contract's up in 2027.

He said when he leaves City, but his contract is up in 2027.

So you assume he's looking at that as the end.

I'm never sure it's a great sign if you're embarking on quite a big job of rebuilding.

You're bringing in, what, sort of, is it nine new players this year,

and you're already thinking of a holiday you're going to have when you finished.

That doesn't sound like somebody who's got bags of energy,

but it may be this is a new challenge for him, and he is sort of energised by that.

It's almost a bit,

I don't know if you've read Stuart Lee's autobiography, but he talks about how he's doing this long tour in the southern hemisphere, in fact, and how he got bored and he would then liven up for himself by deliberately losing part of a room in New Zealand just for the fun of getting it back.

And I mean, I've lost many rooms, not quite so much.

Have you ever got one back?

But imagine how good that would be, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And Guadiola's in the rare position.

Most managers, when things start to go wrong, they just get sacked because he's got so much credit in the bank.

He's got this chance to rebuild.

And it may be that that does sort of give him this sort of renewed sense of purpose.

It does sort of

recharge him.

But he's been a manager for, well, at the top level for 16 of the last 17 years, and that is a long time for managers to be at the very top.

So it's very difficult to know whether he will be recharged or whether he won't be.

If he's recharged, yeah, they can win the title.

If not, then it could be a difficult season for them.

So it's interesting that they bought in those players in January who have had time to settle.

I think Marmous

is such a brilliant player.

And if him and Haaland can sort of find a way of working together, can they?

Did seem a bit of cross-purposes a bit last season, didn't they?

I mean, it's funny when you look at those

January signings.

i mean victor hayes has already gone to girona now that normally isn't a positive sign uh for city is it though he's very young i mean he's

city are the great

intangible of the season really because

previously city have signed players that you thought ready-made this guy will come in and be brilliant for them and we're buying players that we knew all about like Jack Grealish.

You know, Jack Grealish is one of the people that supported the club, like Kevin De Bruyne, like Kyle Walker.

So they're not particularly recognisable.

But the question is, as Jonathan says, it's in Pep.

And Pep's been pretty, well, public-facing this summer.

Big GQ interview, hanging around at the Oasis concert, you know, videoing himself singing into his iPhone at the concert.

I've never done that, but, you know, whatever.

Whatever likes you come to.

Somebody you choose to sing along to.

I think it was Don't Look Back in Anger, you know, which is the Manchester anthem.

So fair enough.

You know, because he,

to be fair to pep uh and

i don't know if you saw this tweet over the summer uh which was about how pep has

become part of manchester and you never saw that from alex ferguson which is nonsense because fergus there for still lives there

fergus one of fergie's best mates was a guy called foofu lamar

who uh was uh basically a drag artist right whose real name was frank got it yeah who in the gay village.

And so like, you can't get more invested in a city than hanging around there.

So there's this whole sort of because Manchester is about City V United, right?

Yeah, I mean, as you can tell by my own dribblings on the subject.

But when we're talking about greatness as a manager, why do we think Ferguson was a great manager?

It's the reinventions, isn't it?

It's the coming back again and again and again.

And if Pep does it this time, we're this group of players that we don't really know.

We don't really know what tactics he's going to adopt.

We don't know if he's because he's taught, hasn't he, about maybe it's about being more aggressive, maybe it's being like Bournemouth, maybe it's being like Newcastle.

If he does a tactical revolution with this group of players and wins the title, well, all hell, Pep.

I suppose defensively,

you know, you're right.

They aren't, they will not look like, you know, when you think of city, you just think you know all the players.

But yeah, it'd be interesting to see.

Well, Ayat Nouri, I think, is a...

is a really interesting signing because he I would never have picked him as a Guadalajar player.

Like the Wolves,

great to watch because he gets up and down.

He's kind of fun to watch as a neutral.

Is he really going to be able to sort of adapt himself to the discipline of a Guadala side?

That smells immediately to me of one of those signings that Pep has two looks at him and then does he get Grealished?

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

Or maybe even does he get Calvin Fittest?

Yeah, oh, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and the thing is, Pep is good at burning bridges with players.

It's like, not interested.

And you've got that there's a long list of those players.

I suppose we don't know at the time of recording, Savinio's still there.

And I suppose if he does go, they could bring in Rodrigo.

And you know, I mean, Rodrigo, wow, yeah, wow, guys.

Yeah.

But the Savinio, if he does go, you know, the City had this spell of, I don't know how long it would have been, say, seven, eight years, where they didn't get a transfer wrong.

They were brilliant at signing players.

That just seems to have gone slightly wrong.

In that last season under Chicago Givestein, obviously, Ugoviana's come in now.

These are Ugo Viana signings.

And it does just feel so.

I mean, the profile of the player seems younger, less proven, which is fine.

I mean, that's a logical way to do it in many ways.

A lot of clubs are doing that.

Ryan Cherky, I think, is a hugely exciting prospect.

Not quite guaranteed that he'll fit in straight away, but

he's definitely a player you would like to have at your club.

But I think there is a question mark now of the city's recruitment in a way they just hadn't been for a long time.

Have we done their positions?

No.

Barry.

Second.

Fourth.

Third.

Top.

That'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with Manchester United.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable paper pro.

We already know that remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category, digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable paper pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist barry although not like you

a proper football journalist man exactly too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out this paper tablet doesn't it'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Yes, please come to our live show on the 11th of September.

Playing the Troxy in London.

Wilson, you're part of the panel.

Yeah, very excited.

Along with Johnny Lou, Nikki Bandini, lots of cameos.

Fancy coming down, John.

Yeah, there you are.

John Bruin, coming down.

This is great getting everyone in.

Tickets can be purchased by heading to theguardian.com/slash football weekly live.

We're live streaming it across the world.

No excuses for any of you, lot,

to watch it at some point.

And

lots of videos, etc.

Plug in what we're going to be doing on our Instagram, Blue Sky, and TikToks.

Manchester United.

Sorry, did you not mean no excuse not to watch it?

What did I say?

No excuse to watch it.

Both are fine.

If If I find out any of you have watched it, I'll be very disappointed.

Manchester United then have bought in Brian and Bumo, Matthias Kunha, Benjamin Sesco.

They're interested in Berlabor.

Rashford has gone, Christian Erickson's gone.

They begin at home to Arsenal.

Then they go to Fulham, home to Burnley, away to City, home to Chelsea.

They came 15th last year.

Dwayne says, how many points will Manchester United win the league by?

Danny, can United fit in a title parade before the World Cup?

Come on then, John.

They've spent a lot of money.

How are you feeling?

Well, I'm surprised they've spent so much money.

That's the first thing to say.

The players that they've brought in are all good players, but they're not top-top players because that's not the market that Manchester United can exist in anymore.

You almost meant Fulmerce, top-top.

Yeah.

Top-top.

Top-top.

But

they can't.

Say Rodrigo, you mentioned before.

He's not going to sign for Manchester United.

But

they are still capable of picking off players from smaller clubs.

So, Mbuemo, watched a lot of Brentford, good player.

Can he make the step up?

Cunha.

Or the step down.

Well,

it's undeniable, yes.

I'm just getting used to it.

All right.

It's been 10 years, but it still hurts.

It still hurts.

But yeah, it's Eva.

It's been 12.

Whatever.

God.

But there was two years of hope, but, you know, there's 10 of misery.

Oh, I mean, they've even win trophies, and it's still miserable.

Oh, God, we're not supposed to do that again.

No, but

Kunya, brilliant play for Wolves.

Explosive.

So you've got this sort of idea that you're looking for like the new firebrand, the new Cantona.

Let's not give him that label already.

That's absolutely ludicrous.

Sesco,

it's funny, isn't it?

A play like that, that there's a lot, so many clubs link with him, Manchester United end up with him, and you already get the back channels, well, you know, he's

a lower a lot of clubs look to him, he's no good, and you know.

So

it is funny that they've just gone big Sejim spending has gone for broke, they've gone for gone for strikers.

They've just gone for it.

Gone for bit, as Lars made the point, they've gone for lots of players who just shoot from anywhere.

It's not fun.

But it's Showbiz.

It's Showbiz.

It's Manchester United.

Let's bring back Manchester United as an entertainment franchise rather than a black comedy.

It can be both.

And it is likely to be both.

The other aspect, of course, is that this red-hot manager that they signed

back in October, November last year,

almost, it appeared, gave up on the domestic season

and gave up on a lot of players.

He now has to work with those players that he's got at the moment.

He has had the summer to train them as he would like.

He's had the summer to fit them to this formation that for some reason he is utterly wedded to.

I think one of the

predictions for the season is that at one point he will not play that formation and he might just be a little bit better.

Or it's worse and he says I was right all along or whatever.

There'll be some variation there.

But my observation of Amerim over the summer is this.

I was away, I came back from holiday from my black metal weekend.

Got home, and just as I got there, they're showing the Premier League, you know, the week, the summer series, and I didn't catch any of the game, but I did see, they were like, oh, we're just waiting to speak to Reuben Amarim, and they cut to Ruben Amarim, face like thunder.

And they took a while to get Reuben Amarim on because he was obviously annoyed about it.

It was an own goal, wasn't it, in that game?

He was annoyed.

He also has already developed the curse of Manchester United.

He looks about 15 years older than when he took that job.

Remember when Jose Mourinho went from salt and pepper to white?

Yeah.

Happens to the best of the current.

Well, quite, yes.

But

it's.

Let's see

how the Manchester United pressers.

David Moyes turned up, you know, strawberry blonde.

Left of a very grey man.

So we'll have to see.

I didn't think you'd be that enthusiastic.

Barry, how do you see them?

It's one of the tougher ones to call.

I personally think Reuben Amerim will whip Manchester United into shape and make them a force again.

I could be wrong.

He could be the equivalent of the monorail guy off The Simpsons.

I mean, at least he has built a monorail in Lisbon.

That actually did happen.

He also left quite a good monorail sort of heritage in Lisbon as well.

I think the monorail guy and The Simpsons built one in Shelbyville as well, but

it wasn't a very good monorail.

Then there's the concern the players he has brought in, or United have brought in, are clearly good players.

But then Manchester United have brought in a lot of good players over the last 10 years who have suddenly stopped being

very bad players.

Will this happen again?

Only time will tell.

So I'm inclined to think...

I can't see them plumbing the depths of last season.

I just cannot see that happening as funny as it would be.

I think they'll be fine without pulling up too many trees.

Give us your thoughts, Wilson, and where you have them.

Barry says they've brought in very good players, but I'm not sure they have.

They've brought in players who might be very good.

Like Kunya is very tempestuous.

That could easily go.

It might be fine.

He might be a Cantonal, but it could go wrong.

And Burmo has only really had one season of being anywhere near as prolific as he was last season.

Brentford, I think, is a club where last season everything worked.

Every aspect of it was working together.

The squad was incredibly well crafted.

And I suspect you take any unit out of that, they might not be as effective elsewhere.

He might be fine, but there's a question.

Sheshko, big, he's quick,

doesn't finish one-on-one.

No, he's young, that might come.

So there's a doubt there.

And

is he any better?

Maybe he probably is better than Hoyland was when he turned up or Xerxe when he turned up and Xerxes, different type, completely different type of player.

But you saw the thing that those players couldn't do immediately is highlighted at United.

It's immediately exposed.

each of these three players.

The same thing could happen.

My other question is: how much were they paying for those packed lunches?

Because if this is a club that's on the brink of bankruptcy, as Jim Ratcliffe told us, and then they stop for packed lunches and suddenly they're going to spend 200 million quid on three forwards, that doesn't sound, you know,

I don't know.

If you go to Prot every day, you'll be skidding quickly.

Actually, a PrEP box is now 10 quid.

Yeah.

I had a Schwarma box yesterday.

It was good, but £10.

Well, they weren't giving them PrEP, were they?

She did it in their own kitchen.

And a green goddess juice, and that he just

madness.

There's so much sugar in them.

What are you doing?

Yeah.

That's what you needed, maybe.

I think the fact they don't have European football as well is

quite an important factor.

That is a big thing.

And I think

the one advantage they've had, or should have had, is they had all

the last two-thirds of last season for Amarim to look at the squad, assess it, start to put things in place.

But then you'd have hoped, with all that sort of preparation, as soon as the window opens in July, but it got in the four or five players they want, crucially got rid of the players they want to get rid of.

I mean, don't forget that Anthony's still there,

Sancho is still there, Malassi is still there, Garnacho's still there.

So four of the five players they want to get rid of are still there, taking their wages, draining resources.

I mean, sorry, that sounds like it's their fault.

It's not their fault.

It's that the United have created that situation.

And as long as they're there, it's obviously hampering what they can do elsewhere.

I don't think if you'd you'd looked at the squad last season, you'd necessarily have said that the front three was what needed the big change.

I mean, their best player over the last four or five years has been Brinathon Anange, and you would think he'd be one of those three.

Maybe the plans will play him deeper, but then you need somebody with an incredible engine to play alongside him.

Bugate really hasn't looked

like last season, he didn't look capable of doing that.

Made the big mistake against Everton in the summer series.

I mean, Balaba would seem that profile of the player who could do that, but he's still young, there's a lot of pressure put on him.

Where does Cobby Mainu fit?

It seems, you know, this great young Talent United have, but they've got a system that doesn't really work for him.

Amand Jallow looked really good in parts last season, but is he really a wing back?

It seems like

he's so short.

Oh, God, this is so miserable.

Oh, no.

He's so short, you sort of think,

you know,

if he's playing right wing back, it's the opposition.

All you do is move a ball down the other wing, pop it up to the back post, and then

Duncan Ferguson heads up.

Yeah, if you've dragged the back three across, then Jallow, what's Jallow going to do against a six foot four?

What would Jallow do in training and Sheshko?

Nothing.

Where are we putting United?

I have them seventh.

Eighth.

Sixth?

After all that?

Yeah, I was going to say.

Well, I think the lack of European football, that time, will help.

I'm so optimistic they're going to come fifth.

Fifth?

Wow.

So the predictions don't really fit with the discussion, but that's fine.

Newcastle then.

They've bought in Anthony Olanga.

They bought Aaron Ramsdale, uh, Malik Tow is uh on his way in from uh AC Milan.

They want Johan Wisser as well.

Uh, they've lost Lloyd Kelly, uh, who wasn't there anyway, I think last year.

Sean Longstaff and Callum Wilson have gone.

Uh, they go to Villa and then play Liverpool, Leeds, Wolves, and Bournemouth.

They came fifth last year.

Where we have two Sunderland fans on this panel.

David Ornstein tweeting this morning, Isaac adamant he will not play for Newcastle ever again, even if the window closes.

No wish to reintegrate.

God, they should have had him at that barbecue, Shouldn't they?

So presuming he goes then, John.

Yes.

How do we view this Newcastle season?

Johnny Lou had them third, saying, look, beyond the noise, they're still a very good team with a very good coach.

I don't doubt that it's a talented group, but it's a much lessened group without a player like Isaac.

We've got to suggest that that is the end for him.

They're just going to have to...

get that deal done and then buy in the players to replace him or rather flesh out the rest of the team.

Borrowed Aaron Ramsdale, didn't they?

On a loan.

Goalkeeper's been a problem for them, hasn't it?

Nick Pope, they've sort of lost trust in him and I suppose he doesn't play out.

Depends how you want to play, right?

Yes, yeah.

Do does Aaron Ramsdale play that well out?

Well, I mean that was the Rhea Ramsdale.

Yeah, that's what that was going to be.

He's centered than Nick Pope.

He's also a relegation specialist.

Yes, well, yeah, but you're into sort of Nigel Quasi territory, aren't you, with a goalkeeper?

But um, listen, Newcastle, it's almost like you can't talk about the football with them because it's like this soap opera has taken a different direction.

It's the realisation that maybe the Saudi ownership wasn't the golden ticket.

Maybe,

you know,

the diversification of Saudi Arabian interests maybe has Newcastle a little further down the priority list than

before.

It's

a situation that will amuse quite a lot of people because the way that the Saudis were open, were received with such open arms, though you have to have sympathy for Newcastle fans who felt that the Mike Ashley reign would not be repeated.

Eddie Howe is a manager who has done a great job for them.

This is a severe test of his ability to pull the club together.

You'd expect the public to be unified behind him.

They've got someone to hate.

That's Alexander Isak now, the guy that was their godhead last season.

It's going to be very, very difficult.

They're in the Champions League as well.

So in the reverse of Manchester United having a clear look at things, you know, being able to play week to week, they won't be able to play week to week.

I'd expect them to drop out of the top five.

We're going to have to see what dealings they can do.

The other thing is, compare the Saudis to the Abu Dhabi arrangement.

Abu Dhabi, when they went into Manchester City, got the setup behind the manager correct.

That's what's gone wrong

at Newcastle.

It's been a mess.

Paul Mitchell, sporting director, has left.

Amanda Stavey left the club, which people say has had a big effect.

It's been a mess behind, and you've had the recruitment policy not working.

You can have all the money in the world, as Manchester United have proved.

If you don't spend it properly on the right people running the club, then you've got problems.

And those are the problems Newcastle have got.

Yeah, I've got them down in 10th, Barry.

You?

I've them 11th.

The weird thing is, if a couple of days after the end of last season, you'd asked me, I'd have thought this is going to be a big summer of recruitment for them.

And they will definitely be

in the shake-up for the title next season.

And now, I think they'll do well to finish in the top half of the table.

I'm not going to pretend I haven't.

I've found this whole Isaac saga and them, this apparent reluctance of so many players to go near them hilarious.

I'm not going to pretend anything other than that, but yeah, there's just something weird going on there.

It's not, I don't think it's a North East thing, no, it's specifically a Newcastle thing.

I'm wondering, is there some big footballer group WhatsApp chat that they all know something we don't?

I'm only guessing, but

I think Newcastle, you know, it should be a very attractive proposition.

Yeah.

And we just won't touch them with a pole.

It's a great place to live and v we will visit it for Jonathan's wedding.

It's a fantastic place.

And I love Newcastle as a place.

I'd happily live there.

But footballers don't seem to want to go there to play for anyhow.

So where are you putting them?

I have them in eleventh.

Wilson.

Eighth.

Eighth.

And

and because Johnny had them third in the sense that we do get so carried away with transfer stories and it well I just think there there's been so much focus on Isak and Wisa and

they're very woefully short in other areas.

Like they need a couple of centre backs.

They need a yeah, Bottman isn't the fittest, you know.

I think there's a mood issue there as well that it and they should and I think that's what's so frustrating for them that

yeah, they win a domestic trophy for the first time in 70 years.

So back in the Champions League, this should have been all positivity.

And instead, there's this, you know,

their sort of iconic player wants to leave.

I think a couple of other players looking at that and thinking, yeah, well, if he wants to go, maybe I also want to go.

Their struggles to bring players in, I think, mean that

that tier of players just below Isak are thinking, well, is this place building or not?

And I think I've got sympathy with them there in the sense that Amanda Savie left for reasons of health, and that's very sad.

And she clearly performed a very useful function there in terms of being some kind of liaison.

And it appears that Paul, I mean, besides the briefings, it's very hard to know exactly what the truth is.

But it appears that Paul Mitchell took a much harder line with Isak than she would have done.

And maybe had she been able to remain, that situation could have been resolved.

They could have come to some kind of agreement.

Do us one more year and we'll let you go.

We'll put in a release clause or whatever.

Rather than this

really toxic standoff where it's very hard to see how he could come back now i know players have come back you know louis wanted to leave liverpool and came back and was it helped he was banned for seven first seven games that season so there was a natural sort of cooling off period but you know it it does happen but it's very hard to see it in in this circumstance also darren health the ceo is is yeah he's he's in terrible health and yeah that's a a tragic situation but that possibly means they haven't quite had the the leadership they might have had and then the fact that the complication that the Saudi piff I mean one of the things Paul Mitchell got frustrated with I think was things had to go through a whole series of committees he could never really take a decision it all took ages to get done and the less interested the Saudis become in Newcastle and they do seem to be refocusing on Saudi-based sport

then the further down that priority list they they slide so the issue is not really the quality of players in the squad.

Although I think Barry's right, there are a couple of areas where they obviously are short.

It's just this sense of, hang on, this has stopped moving forward.

And as soon as you lose that momentum, the better players are always looking, hang on, where can I get a better deal?

Where's the next place to go?

Have not recently been a regular Champions League qualifier means there's always that doubt.

And still,

it appears Benjamin Sheshko preferred the offering at Manchester United, which, assuming he's got a he didn't listen to our bit about Man United, though, to be fair.

But assuming he's got a cable channel in Leipzig, he must have seen United play.

But even then, that is a more.

I mean, maybe they offered more money.

I don't know.

If Isak Isak was only on 120 grand a week, maybe it is purely financial.

But anyway, United's package was, or Manchester United's package was more attractive than Newcastle United's package.

Lottie and Forrest brought in Dannon Doy from Bologna, forward and a winger.

Igor Jesus from Botofogo and Deja Cunho centre-back from Botafogo as well.

Alanga's gone to Newcastle, Danilo's gone, a couple of others have gone as well.

They begin at home to Brentford, they play Palace, West Ham, Arsenal, Burnley.

They finish seventh.

Jim says, as the headline in Wilson's recent article noted, analysing preseason friendlies is maddening, but right now it's all we have.

With that in mind, Forrest scoring one goal in seven games feels sub-optimal, don't you think?

They did massively overperform expectations.

Certainly, me and Barry's expectations.

We had them relegated.

They have to compete on multiple fronts.

They have kept hold of Morgan Gibbs White.

Elliot Anderson was perhaps England's stand-up player in the other 21 euros.

I know Harvey Elliott got player of the tournament.

How do we think they're going to go, Barry?

I'm not relegating them this season, but I do expect a massive drop-off from what they did achieve last season.

I think Alanga is a huge loss.

I don't think Chris Wood will score anywhere near 20 goals again.

Morgan Gibbs White appears to be being held there very much against his will, so I suspect he may not perform as well as he did last season.

They have had a clear-out of quite a lot of dead wood, I suppose you could call it.

Milenkovich and Murillo, if they can be as good again this season or as they were last season,

that would be a big feather in their cap.

But

I do expect just an overall drop-off, and I can't see them in trouble in the top half of the table.

But I'm not relegating.

Well, I've actually got them eight.

I've got them 14th.

Okay.

For much the same reasons as Barry said.

I think having to play in Europe will put a stress on that squad.

Chris Wood had the season of his life last season.

He may well get 10 or 12 or 15 this season, but it's not going to be as good as last season.

I'm not convinced that Dallon Doy is an upgrade on Alanga.

He might be.

I mean, he's played very well for Bologna, but whether he's exactly that sort of very direct,

sort of somebody who's very good in transition,

Alanga was perfect for that, and Dalon Doy may not be quite perfect for that.

So, yeah, I think there will be a drop-off.

And I just, I sort of sense around that club.

I mean, I'm saying this is some great wisdom only I've defined, but there is a volatility around that club.

Can you put your finger on where that comes from?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Okay, fine.

It tends to come from the top, these things.

But who knows?

Was this one of the questions we had to answer?

Who's going to be the first manager to go?

But Nuno, for no good reason, is pretty high on that list just because

it's not a good thing.

He likes sucking a manager.

Where have you got them, John?

I've got them 14th.

I think that European...

Well, being in the European routine will affect them as it has done so many teams over the years.

They haven't really strengthened

this striker, Igor Jesus,

that's using this.

Maranekis appears to have this hotline to Brazil, doesn't he?

You know, which they got Marilla.

What Forrest did so well with a couple of players is that they have,

whereas, say, smaller European clubs pick up

Brazilian players and then own them up, Notting Forest are going straight to the producer.

And that's to the original line of it, and, you know, picking up that talent.

Let's see how he goes.

Was it Brentford had a signer player called Igor last season, and he got injured.

Yeah, I'm hoping that that doesn't happen the same.

You know, we need a fit Eagle.

I want to see both fit Igors this season.

Brentford are going to need their ego.

They are going to need their Eagle.

Has there ever been a good Ego?

Igor Stepanovsky.

Eagle Tudor's a good player.

Eagle Steamatch?

Being the Premier League.

Eagle Steamatch was good in Derby.

Yeah, Fair and Office.

Best Eagle.

Best Eagle.

Yeah, there is a reason for me.

All right, that'll do for part two, part three.

Igor Biscan as well, says Producer Joel.

Yeah, of of course.

There's a plethora of Igor's.

Bishkan was better in the Champions League than he was in the...

Still, still a...

I mean, he was so good

against Juventus.

We're tight for time.

We can't go into the Igor Premier League history.

Part three, I'll begin with Sunderland.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

If you're a regular listener, you'll know that this month Football Weekly is being supported by TNT Sports.

In the ads, we've been talking about how TNT Sports is the destination for football's not normal moments, whether it's the Premier League, the UEFA Champions League, or the men's and women's FA Cup.

Every match day has the potential to deliver drama, fun, and excitement.

And as this is a prediction pod, we thought we'd ask the panel for a forecast of their not-normal moment of the season ahead.

Something that would never happen: Man United finishing 15th, Spurs finishing 17th, Big Sam coming back, Aston Villa signing Rashford and Ascentio in January.

So, yeah, something that would never happen, but actually might happen.

John, I'll start with you.

I've got a couple here.

Okay, yeah, I was watching Everton unveiling their new stadium, the Hill Dickinson.

It was a veterans game.

Everton v.

Roma.

I'll tell you who's the best player in the pitch.

Leighton Baines.

Oh, yeah.

I think Baines could still do a job for Everton.

So Baines back.

But Bain's back for Everton.

I'd like to see it.

I think he could grace the Hill Dickinson.

And another one,

I was sad to see that Juan Ma Lillo, Pep Guardiola's, you know, almost like his

comedy partner, his chorus line partner, has stepped away.

He's been replaced by Pepin Linders,

formerly Klops.

So that's an interesting swap, wife swap,

if you'd like.

But Pepin Linders is an ambitious guy.

I could see him taking a club job somewhere else.

We know there's been a bromance going on recently I know who the new assistant should be for Pap Neil Gallagher

no Neil Warner Camille Warner yes that's a great idea Barry what would be nice if we could get through an entire season

where Arsenal fans are not in any way upset by any referee and decision that goes against them at all over the course of 38 games.

They're perfectly satisfied.

There's no talk of conspiracies of any kind from on high, from Stockley Park or from the PGO MOL.

It's a pipe dream, but it could happen.

I'll say at no point in the season we'll get frustrated by the hand ball door.

Wilson.

I like John.

I've got a couple.

So I quite like

especially a big team who have a bad start of a season and in January they say, you know what, we haven't really been performing.

So we're going to lower the ticket prices to reward our fans for their loyalty.

Perfect.

The impossible.

Or, and this is even less likely, a journey from London to the northwest for a game to run smoothly.

Or, and this is perhaps

fair.

I think this is vaguely plausible.

And to be fair, this is somebody on Twitter that asks us a question, what stimulated the thought.

After Newcastle have got rid of Isak and they're desperately scrambling around on the last couple of days of the window for

forward, they re-sign Ivan Tony from Saudi Arabia.

That is interesting.

And you could see that happening.

Prodigal son returns, you know.

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Okay, then on to Sunderland.

They've brought in reams of footballers, including Granite Xhaka, Jacker, Simon La Dingra from Brighton as well.

They've lost Joe Bellingham, they've lost Tom Watson.

They begin at home to West Ham.

They've then played Burnley, Brentford Palace, and Aston Villa.

They won the playoffs in dramatic style.

Certainly, the playoffs semi-finals in dramatic style.

Chris says, How the Newcastle fan, how delighted are Barry and Jonathan knowing they've arrived in the Premier League?

The exact season Newcastle's wheels fall off, finishing above us, is surely on the cards.

I was speaking to Kevin Hatchard yesterday, European football expert Wilson.

He was saying a lot of the players that you bought in are quite physical.

It could be quite a

dirty big boot, hit-em-hard Sunderland.

Fine.

Yeah, no, no, I'm excited about it.

The best recent Sunderland was the Sam Anderdey Sunderland, and they didn't mind a tackle.

Yeah.

So, whatever it takes.

Yeah, if you'd asked me immediately after the final whistle on the day of the playoff final.

Through the tears, you were.

Through the tears, yeah.

I would have said,

I just say, well, I'm just going to enjoy the day because Lexi would be terrible.

But the signings have actually given me a little.

I hate this about football, it just gives you hope.

Just when you think, I can write off this season, it's fine.

The aim is actually to get you know, be the first team to get in single figures points, to set a record that will last the test of time, a record some have held twice previously.

But actually, I think the signings have been as good as you could realistically have expected.

There's a nice range of ages that they're still going for the young players to develop and sell on, but they have brought in some experience.

I mean, Granite Jack, I think, particularly looks a pretty smart signing.

I mean, how bad must Eric Ten Hag's first training session have been at Labour Kids?

That suddenly Granite Jacka discovers his lifelong ambition to live in Sunderland.

But anyway, I'm grateful that he has.

So it's going to be incredibly difficult for them, but

there's a chance.

I think the start is pretty kind.

I think the stats show that newly promoted teams, if they don't get eight points in the first five games, they don't stay up.

Well, starting at home to West Ham, then Burnley away, then Brentford at home.

There's a chance in all nine of us.

There's three points right there.

And then is it a palace away and a villa at home?

Yeah.

So that's 15 points the first five games.

They're nearly halfway there.

Barry.

Yeah,

I presumed that when they went up, they would go straight back down.

The number of players they brought in has astounded me.

Some of them look...

Look.

Working on the presumption that every player you bring in will be really good is quite a foolish one.

But if even a third of them work out that would still be really good.

I think the signing of Granachaka could be an absolute inspirational one.

Interestingly in 10,000 simulations of the imminent season run by the Optus supercomputer, Sunderland were the only team out of 20 who didn't win it once.

So up the aura supercomputer.

My sights are set like slightly lower than winning it.

I think Regis LeBris has something about him.

I really do.

He's very calm.

He's authoritative and very tactically flexible.

I won't mind if Sunderland gets relegated, but I certainly expect them to give a much better account of themselves than any of the three teams that came up last season.

I haven't 17th, John.

I haven't bottomed chaps, I'm afraid.

It's okay.

I'm not sure why I came to that conclusion.

Regis LeBrie, obviously a very talented coach, Though he does remind me of someone who could work on Master Chef, the Professionals.

Maybe it's just the name.

He sounds like a linebacker for the Buffalo Bills.

Yeah, or a game show host or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Granite Jacket, that's an interesting signing.

It feels to me that he's got the slot that should have been Jordan Henderson's.

Yeah.

And then Adingra,

really talented player.

I wonder why Brighton have let him go.

That's my.

there's rumours that he's not the most dedicated trainer, I think.

Yes, uh, and yeah, and when you consider that the managers he've worked with Brighton, you know, Deserby and uh Herzler, they like things their own way.

Let's see how Regis gets on with him.

You just sack him in the end zone and then have to

get him peeling potatoes in a corner like a comic ship.

Come on down.

And Sutherland's preseason's been dreadful as well.

Oh, has it?

They beat Augsburg and they beat South Shield as much as they beat anybody else.

There's a big, big, one, the big local derby, then.

Thorne Hill as well.

Got beat three north by Carno at the weekend.

Where have you got them?

20th.

Oh, you've got them.

Oh, realistic.

Oh, okay, Baz.

15th.

15th for you.

Okay, then.

Tottenham have brought you 17th.

I had them bought him, unfortunately.

Spurs have brought in Mohamed Kudas.

Matthias Tell and Kevin Danzo have signed permanently.

Luca Vuscovich are centre-back from Hadrick Split as well.

Jiao Polini has come in.

Human Son has left.

Hoiberg's left as well.

James Madison injured for most of the season.

They begin at home to Burnley, then they go to Man City, play Bournemouth, West Ham, and Brighton.

Uh, we are recording this before Tottenham's victory over PSG in the European Super Cup.

I had more enthusiasm for that until

their social media account was like, buy a Munich score, 2-0, buy a Munich score, 3-0, buy a Munich score, 4-0, and a pre-season friendly.

Uh, Thomas Frank, look, Spurs have ruined the lives of a lot of high-profile managers.

Can they ruin the life of a lower-profile one, Barry?

Probably.

Um, I have high hopes for Thomas Thomas Frank, I have to say, at Spurs.

He has a hard act to follow insofar as Ange Postagoglu won a trophy.

He doesn't have a hard act to follow insofar as Spurs lost more than half of the Premier League games last season, was it?

22 touches.

I think he is

around long enough and is smart enough not to be phased by this step up, you know, bigger stadium, more more demanding fan base.

Spurs had a big problem last season, I think more so than any other side.

They're just throwing away points from winning positions.

I think that won't happen this season.

I think they will be far more defensively solid under Frank.

I think they'll be better at set pieces.

I think I think they'll be absolutely fine.

I think he'll have them motoring up the table.

They won't be anywhere near the relegation.

The problem Frank has is that

his history shows he starts slowly at clubs.

It takes a while for players to

learn how to do what he wants them to do.

I think at Brentford he won one of the first 10 games, I think, is a stat.

And because he is, as you said, he's a lower profile manager, there is a danger that a section of Spurs fans who are already a bit, why are we getting blocked from Brentford?

Should he were better than that?

They see that and they immediately turn on him and it becomes a bit like Nuno and he's drummed out by October.

I think that that is a genuine risk.

I hope it doesn't happen because I think in time he will be good.

But already things are sort of ganging up on him, not getting Gibbs White when it looked like they got him.

I think Kulasevsky's

knee is still damaged.

Yeah.

They're exploring Eze and Savinio and El Canus.

They explore a lot of

no club better.

They're exploring transfer opportunities.

Yeah, it's funny.

I saw Daniel Levy did that interview with Gary Neville and talked about the money they've spent.

But then I actually looked at it and actually it was money they'd spent previously on players that were already coming in like Danso and tell

um listen I'm a huge admirer of Thomas Frank as I've said many times on this podcast I do fear for him I do think he has the wherewithal the constitution to deal with it at Brentford there were a lot of difficult times over those years he dealt with them all

when Barry says that they'll be better at set pieces I think they couldn't be any worse

under Ange Post

set pieces.

Thomas Frank will actually concentrate on set pieces and not dismiss them as some mere frippery, as dear old Ange did.

The thing is with Frank is that he is a pragmatic coach and he will play, he can play different styles.

I think.

And he changed how Brentford played.

Yes, because he played that very passing game.

Then he arrived as the sort of new Wimbledon in the Premier League.

And by the end of it, they were playing this really attacking football.

I think Tottenham fans will quite enjoy that if he plays that.

And he's innovative and he has the ability to improve players which is a big skill in managers and Tottenham need that.

They've got quite a lot of good young players coming in.

There's a lot of hope for the Japanese guy that's coming again.

I think they'll be fine with Frank if there's patience there.

Patience at Tottenham

in short supply over the years but also beyond Frank there's been a big shifting in the boardroom and the

sporting director and head of football and all that stuff.

It's a club in transition.

Funny enough, winning a trophy was supposed to be the achievement of a dream.

Well, football doesn't work like that, does it?

It's on to the next thing.

I have them fifth,

sixth, seventh, seventh.

All right.

West Ham, then.

We are running out of time.

Who could have foreseen this, West Ham and Wolves fans?

As is customary, we apologise.

I suspect West Ham Wolves fans won't be that upset we've run out of time.

I have them bottom.

Have you?

Yeah.

Right.

I'm not quite sure why, but I don't think it's going to be.

I mean, they've brought in Jean-Claire Todebo essentially.

They already have

already.

Elhad's Juf, not that one.

Left back from Slavic.

Region.

Carl Walker Peters and Callum Wilson.

Kudas has gone.

Zoom has gone.

Danny Ng's gone with Carl Antonio, of course.

Great news for Barry.

Lucas Fabianski's gone.

So

no problem.

You can't be sure.

They start at Sundland, then they play Chelsea Forest Spurs and Palace came 14th.

Does feel, Barry, like a tough season for Graham Potter this?

Yeah,

you look at the signings they brought in, not even remotely inspirational.

I think West Ham's most remarkable moment last season was the Nicholas Fulkrug rant after they failed to beat Southampton.

I think they beat Manchester United as well, and that's they're the only two things of note that West Ham that registered with me last season.

You did change managers and everything, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah.

But I mean, their form didn't change at all, did it?

There were 23 points from 20 games on Lopotegi and 20 points from 18 games on Greta Potter, so it just kept going at exactly the same rate.

It's a classic West Ham misery summer.

Again, we were talking to sporting directors.

One came in, he's gone.

The same guy that's been doing, pretty much running the shop for many years is doing it.

David Sullivan, there is disquiet amongst the fans.

Maybe West Ham fans wouldn't have it any other way, but

you do fear for them.

That game against Sunderland, six-pointer.

Isn't it?

Twelve-pointer.

I do think that the one ray of positivity is Lucas Paquetta, he's off the hook for that

gambling charge.

Hopes will once again be pinned on Jared Bowen.

Jared Bowen has twins who are over, just gone past two years old.

Jared Bowen's going to be very tired.

Do you know what?

On the same note, did you see James Madison, who has three kids, has twins and another kid?

And then they did an announcement saying, We're having twins again.

So I was like, obviously, you know, I'm really sad that he's injured because I love him as a player.

But I was worried about this season for him anyway in nine months' time.

Because you can't have twins and twins and not be able to do that.

Two sets of twins.

Two sets of twins.

I've never heard of that before.

Yeah.

So Bowen will be absolutely broken.

Yeah, Bowen's broken.

Bowen's going to be broken, man.

He's worked hard enough as it is.

But the thing is,

I was looking at myself.

I researched the age of Jared Bowen's twins in the course of this because there's so little else to work with.

Graham Potter was sold to us as this, oh, he's a genius, and he did an undeniably good job at Brighton, but I'm beginning to wonder, has he got?

Well, I think the West Ham fans are wondering because it's not a lack of charisma, it's just that he's just a normal guy, and that isn't how

that's not how football works, and it's not how it doesn't work at West Ham.

You're right, you know,

you need Harry.

You need Harry, you need Slavin,

you need someone that's got a bit of...

Yeah.

Where are we all putting them?

I have them 17th, 18th, 19th.

So three of us relegating West Ham.

I'm also relegating Wolves.

I have them 18th.

Jorgen Strand Larson has signed permanently.

Fair Lopez, John Arias, and David Moller Wolf have come in.

Cunha's gone.

Ryan Aitnori is gone.

Gonzalo Guedez has gone.

They begin against City, then they play Bournemouth, Everton, Newcastle, and Leeds.

Look, Vito Pereira Wilson did a brilliant job with them last year, and it looks like it's going to be tougher this season.

The thing that they can hang their hats on is him.

Under Garnil took eight points and 15 games, Under Vita Pereira, 34 points and 23 games.

It's a massive improvement.

That's you're almost trebling the points per game.

If he can sustain that, then you're talking about getting into Europe.

But I suspect they can't sustain that.

But he clearly is a very charismatic bloke.

He seems to be good at motivating not just the players, but the fan base.

Once he came in, once that first three or four weeks had passed, you didn't didn't really think Wolves were going to get relegated last season.

So, if they start well, I think they'll be comfortable and mid-table, but

they're one of those clubs who you could see falling off a wall.

Look at his CV.

Look how long he's lasted at his various clubs.

It's a long CV, isn't it?

It's a long CV.

There's a lot of clubs.

He's managed in Brazil, Portugal, Asia as well.

He's there for a good time, not a long time, I think.

And he likes his pints

after points, doesn't he?

Even when they were struggling to Gary O'Neill, I always thought there's a lot of talent in the squad that's sort of fairly latent.

Fair Lopez, that they brought in, quote from Vito Pereira, he has the magic we need.

So let's watch out for him.

They have a brilliant midfield, I think, in Andre and Xiao Gomez.

John Arias, they brought in, he lit up the Clerb World Cup.

Will he be able to carry that form on to the Premier League?

Time will tell.

I don't think they'll do as well as last season, but I don't.

I'm not relegating them either.

you have them 16th 13th

i have them 15th 15th i have them 18th um uh quickly let's have your top sevens barry your top seven please liverpool man city arsenal brighton chelsea spurs and your bottom three from the bottom burnley everton leads wilson uh top seven chelsea Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Villa, United, Tottenham.

Bottom three from bottom upwards, Sundon Burnley, West Ham.

Arsenal winners, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Manchester United, Villa, Tottenham.

Bottom three, Burnley, West Ham, Sunderland.

Right, and I have Man City winning the league, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Villa, Man United as my top seven, West Ham, bottom, Burnley, 19th, and Wolves, 18th.

Apologies to these three sides.

So you have Chelsea, you think will win the league?

I think they need to bring in a centre-back, but I trust their ability to buy players.

Yeah, I think you're watching the Club World Cup final.

They were so good, and that was such an obvious Maresca triumph.

I think last season, Mareska, Low Degree, oh, his football's boring.

But if they'd taken the lead in the first 15, 20 minutes of games, and you're being slightly boring protecting a 1-0 lead, I think fans are much more accepting of that.

And a lot of the problem last season was they just didn't take the chances.

I know a lot of Chelsea fans got quite upset with Nicholas Jackson.

They've clearly upgraded him, Jeff Pedro and Liam DeLappe, I think, are both upgrades.

and Nicholas Jackson I just feel really sorry for he's one of the people who's been chewed up by that that whole way of doing business he came in having played 16 games in La Liga and suddenly oh you're you know you're a you're a first choice centre forward for a Premier League club who expects to get in the Champions League and it's a ludicrous expectation to place on a young player he's never had a time to develop or a place to sort of

um he hasn't had the you know the right sort of curve of education.

So I still think there could be a player in there.

I think his movement was pretty good, just not that good at finishing.

Yes.

I'm being told we have two minutes to get out of the studio.

I don't know what's on next.

So, whatever thought you had, John, you can't have it.

And

that'll do.

Save it for the next part.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Wilson.

Cheers.

Thank you.

Thank you, John.

Thank you.

Thank you, Barry.

Thank you, Max.

Leave us a nice review on Apple or Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.

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And we'll be back next week.

But we'll weekly as produced by Joel Grove.

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This is The Guardian.