Celtic’s crisis grows and drama in the Carabao Cup – Football Weekly

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. It takes a lot for Fitbar to lead the pod, but Celtic have stumbled into a worse managerial appointment than Rangers managed with Russell Martin.

Four games is no time to judge anyone, but Wilfred Nancy is the first Celtic manager in history to lose his first four games. The first time a club have lost four in a row since 1978.

Where does that fit in the Venn diagram? Then to the Carabao, Lewis Miley puts Newcastle past Fulham in the last minute. Ray and Cherky shines again for City while Chelsea see off a spirited Cardiff.

There's a Premier League preview, Newcastle, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, and Villa Man United standout. There's the Guardian's top 100 footballers, some belated half and half scarf excitement.

Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glenn Dunning, welcome. Hi, Max.
Hello, Jordan Jarrett Boran. Morning, mate.
Welcome, Sam Dalling. Hello, Max.

And friend of the pod, host of the RGC podcast, Barcelona, Jim Burke, Celtic fan. Welcome, Jim.
How are you doing, Max? All right. Yeah.

You're speaking far too often these days. You really are.

Do you know what? I mean, okay, so Paul says Wilfred Nancy discuss. It's a fascinating story about sort of how he was appointed and

how they've and the timing of the appointment. And we have touched on it in previous pods.
But like I said, lost four in a row for the first time since 1978.

My first thought was a stat from before I was born. Mull of Kintyre by Wings was number one at this time, Jim.
You lost 2-1 to Dundee United last night, which was Dunder United's first time.

They'd beaten Celtic in 11 years, their first win in eight. So it's unlike the three previous defeats, which have been difficult games, I guess.
And Celtic were unlucky in this game, I guess.

I think that's a very kind synopsis. We didn't have a shot in target after the 13th minute, Max.

We started really well. With the first 10 minutes or so, we started really well, but then

it was more a case of Dundee United being bad than us being good.

And then at halftime, Jim Goodwin got Dundee United in, sort of a couple of tactical tweaks, and we never laid a glove on them for 45 minutes.

And I know, let's deal with the entitlement thing right away. Everybody's going to say, Celtic fans, you win everything, but what you all complaining about,

we expect better from the resources that we've got. It's as simple as that.

And to be outplayed by Dundee United for 45 minutes and not lay a glove on them for another 35 minutes, it's not really a win, Max.

I mean, Chris Sutton said, look, after that Midamiss, you might just wonder if it's not meant to be for Wilfred Nancy. Bottom line is it's more substandard players than the manager.

It all goes back to a poor summer. Celtic look like a third-place team at present.
Is that fair? I mean, it's not just him, right?

It's absolutely fair.

I think Barry wrote a really good piece about Celtic, and it just is the fact that this is all of their own doing.

You know, this isn't external forces working against Celtic. This is a lot of grown men shooting themselves in the foot.
Brendan was at his games, bringing him into conflict with the board.

Tisdale, the man from that

footballing hub of Exeter. No disrespect to Exeter, by the way, of course.
Well,

you can say that, Max. I'm going heavily on disrespect to Exeter.
In fact, there we go. I'm creating beef with Exeter.

Everything was just self-inflicted. That's the bottom line.
You know, we weren't a result of external forces. We have brought this upon ourselves.
And I can't see any.

I mean, the manager before the game, you know, said football management, it's trial and error.

Really?

Trial and error. You're getting paid whatever you're getting paid.
Football management isn't trial and error. Well, maybe he's right.
I mean, this is the thing.

Maybe I was thinking about this because he obviously he's fascinating. And the Venn diagram that he posted, which turned out to be a sort of accidental, just trying to change his profile pic.

But if you haven't seen it, it is like any Venn diagram and a great chance to talk about Venn diagrams that I don't think we've ever had since I started the pod.

Things you can control on one side, things that matter on the other, and a little shaded bit in the middle with, you know, what you should focus on.

And, you know, a bit like football being trial and error, like. Strip it back.
Maybe he's right. Maybe he's trying to say there's an existential point here that football doesn't matter.

That's what he's been brought to Celtic to do, to make this deeper than it is.

But I, but, you know, there is, it is fascinating that there is a real sort of Russell Martin vibe to the way he talks about the game.

Well, exactly. And the thing is, I say, Max, I've said this to you before, you start to sound very much like you're pitching for one of those high-performance type gigs, mate.

That was all a bit too, you know, who I mean. But that actually, that's the Russell Martin thing is not a bad

thing to bring up because

Celtic should have learned from looking across the city what happens when you bring in somebody who maybe hasn't operated at a level where the demands on them are so big.

It was clear to me after two games that Nolsi was out of his depth and nothing has happened since then to change. I mean,

after the game, we were close to winning.

Come on, boy.

You were, but he's on

facts. Well, he said after the game, I think I'm in a good direction with the players.
Today you saw we had a good performance. We are improving.
We are close to winning. Keep the faith.

Celtic fans aren't going to want to hear that after their fourth consecutive defeat, and they've just been beaten by Dundee United. I mean,

we've already spoken at length about the recruitment, the AGM we mentioned on Monday, where...

Celtic fans were condescended to and sneered at by the club hierarchy to within an inch of their lives. But

the thing is, Wilfrid Nancy coming in, he came in on the back of a very underwhelming run with Columbus crew. Before that, he was pretty underwhelming, I think, at Montreal and Impact.

Now, Paul Tisdale, who Jim mentioned, there, former head coach of Exeter City, I think Paul listens to this podcast, or he certainly used to.

But Paul, I like him he's that guy you know he wears he used to stand on the

cravat and the pork pie hat good guy I had some dealings with him just he got in touch once after something we'd said I think it was the pod not the radio show but um so he worked with Kwame Ampidou Ethan's father at Exeter

and Kwame worked with Wilfred Nancy

at uh Columbus crew and is now his number two at Celtic so people are putting two and two together, possibly getting five, but they're assuming that the link between Tisdale and Ampidou and Ampidou and Nancy is the reason Nancy rocked up at Celtic Park.

And we don't know for sure because Paul Tisdale doesn't speak publicly. But I suspect Paul probably isn't that popular at Celtic at the moment because he's in charge of recruitment.

And the recruitment, I think it's fair to say, has been pretty dismal since the summer. Yeah, I mean, I suppose the thing is,

Jim, like, it doesn't matter if you appoint somebody you know, if it's good and goes well, in the same way, it doesn't matter if your appointment is left field and it works, but if it doesn't work, it immediately becomes completely nonsensical, doesn't it?

It's exactly it. And, you know, the mood with the fans even before his appointment wasn't great.

There's a kind of narrative that it's the youth and the malcontents that are that are driving the complaints against the board and whatever. That's really not the case.

There's a much wider discomfort amongst the support, simply on the basis that we look at the resources we've got and we really shouldn't.

I mean, 10 months ago, we ran Bayern Munich really close in the Champions League. And in the space of 10 months, we're now being well beaten by a St.
Miram team.

and a Dundee United team in the space of three days. Now, at some point, somebody has to ask the question, why has that happened?

And the only logical explanation for me is you look at the board, and that includes all of the recruitment in terms of both players and management, and also the potential issues with Brendan as well.

It starts at the board, and it really should finish with the board. But at the same time, the fans at the moment, I mean, we're at our wits' end.

Jim, Peter Lawl, the chairman, he announced yesterday he's stepping down

because of the abuse he's been subjected to. And I think, to be fair, the Celtic fans could have behaved better at that AGM.

I don't think that's an unfair assessment. So it isn't entirely

Lawl and Desmond and Desmond's son's fault that that AGM was shut down so quickly. But will he be missed?

He must have done some good work over the years because Celtic were winning all around them.

He has always been a very divisive figure in the support. He has had periods where he has been very popular, but a lot of it he has been very unpopular simply because there's been various times where

we

maybe should have kicked on. Like the Bayer Munich situation is

one, and he has become a bit of a figurehead in some fans' eyes for the failure to do that. The AGM,

I suspect that Lowell saw the opportunity to draw what would have been a potentially very difficult

and the fans did give him the opportunity to draw that AGM to a close.

The booing and the pantomime booing and hissing when they walked in and holding up the red cards.

I didn't follow it live, I was working, and then when I saw it, I thought, oh, the fans, oh my goodness how stupid you shouldn't have given them the opportunity then I saw Ross Deadsman's comments and I thought well fair enough lads so yes there was a bit of blame attached to the fans Barry but I can't get away from the fact that the current board in its current situation is manifestly unfit for purpose yeah Peter Law said I believe that my 18 years as chief executive and three years as chairman at the club have shown my ability to meet and overcome challenges on many fronts but abuse and threats from some sources have increased and are now intolerable they've dismayed and alarmed my family at this stage of my life i don't need this i cannot accept this and so i leave the club i've loved all my life the motivations and aims of these detractors can be investigated by others i prefer to look back on my career at celtic with deep gratitude and satisfaction um

what happens now jim

we've got a blueprint what to do when a manager isn't fit for purchase and I think we have to go with that.

Truthfully, if they put me in charge of Celtic at nine o'clock this morning, it would be a strange move. I'll say that

you don't even follow the AGM live, call yourself a real fam.

I would say to the manager, Look, you're a square peg and a round hole, thank you, but off you go, and then just reinstall the

um reinstall the management team that was there before.

And I'm not Martin O'Neill's biggest fan, incidentally, I've got issues with Martin, but put Martin O'Neal, Sean Maloney, and Mark Fotheringham back in charge of first-team matters and see if we can rescue the season.

I mean, Martin O'Neill hasn't exactly been helpful because he rolled a grenade in on Monday when he went on talk sport and blithely announced that he'd have happily stayed there till the end of the season if he'd been asked.

But he wasn't asked. So, um, and a lot of Celtic fans think he should have been left in charge for the Harts, Roma, and St.
Mirren games. But then if you do that, it shows

you've no confidence in the guy you're appointing.

So they obviously have.

That might have been sensible with the benefit of hindsight. But it isn't exactly a vote of confidence in the new guy.
No. Sam, did you want to come in?

Oh, I was just going to say a similar thing about the O'Neill element doesn't help a new manager, right?

When you stick a club legend in as an interim and then say to someone that none of the fan base have heard of, right, this guy is going to follow the man who brought you so much success.

And yeah, he stuck his aura. I'm going to stick my aura.
And this is awful because it's that thing that all of us football fans, when we hear people talk about our club.

who have literally no real knowledge. They've cursorily read a headline or two and then they suddenly make like definitive statements.
I'm going to try and defend Nancy a little bit.

So I know I know very little about Celtic, although Dundee United versus Celtic at Canada's was one of the first ever games of football I went to because we used to go up to Scotland every year.

But he watched the highlights, right? Is it Kenny the centre forward, right? They should be two 3-0 up.

If that goal goes in, and we're talking about these such fine margins, right? This conversation isn't happening because they won at Dundee United. And of course, everything wouldn't be fine.

But I do have a degree of sympathy for him. I thought he interviewed quite well afterwards.
What else can he say? He's asked those questions.

He isn't going to come out and say, Yeah, actually, we were really rubbish. I probably should go.

And the very final question of about a nine-minute interview was: so, um, have you got I'm paraphrasing, but have you got renewed resolve, or do you think it's probably time to

walk away? And he's like, He's been, and he Nancy like visibly bristles at it, and he comes back, and rightly so. Like, what a silly question.

He's like, No, I've been here two weeks, um, and that's, I think, where the players are moving in my direction. So, he hasn't had a preseason.
Like he's come in, he's playing a new system.

As I say, I know not much about Celtic. Chris Sutton and everyone seems to be saying the recruitment is really bad.
They haven't got centre forwards.

I mean, it doesn't help Nancy Starlitz to play like one centre half, isn't it? With kind of two wing backs. It's almost amarin.
Like he's a three at the back, man. It just feels...

I know Celtic is a massive club and I understand the strength of feeling, but like it was their 15th loss of the year, of the calendar year, and I think they lost four in 2024.

So it does, there's a lot of things that suggest it isn't just this one man, which you have said.

The fact he couldn't tell the difference between Twitter and WhatsApp in terms of changing his profile picture is a little weird way.

Put that aside.

Yeah, I mean, Stuart Holden, the US international who played for Bolton for a while and is now back in the States, says that I genuinely feel for him.

A lot of factors at play, a really tough schedule of games. He's proven himself as an excellent coach in MLS, great at developing players.

But the European pressures that a club like Celtic demand winning from the off. I hope he gets more time to to get his fingerprints on the team, but unfortunately, I don't think he will.

He's been too naive in how quickly he thought he could implement his style of play and get wins for which he might pay the price. And I suppose that's the point, Jim, isn't it?

He has gone in and said, you know, Martin O'Neill plays a certain way, and I think we can play this way.

Yes.

And in those three fixtures, it's sort of mad.

Well, that's it. And to be fair, Barry mentioned a grenade.

He actually lodged two grenades, Barry, because he also said that

Nonce hadn't even asked him really about the players. There was a week and a 15-minute handover chat where it was just a probably a, where's the parking spot, blah, blah, blah.

Anywhere mice to eat in Glasgow, that kind of thing. And he didn't ask him about the players.
So Martin's got previous convictions for mischievousness.

And I think there's a bit of, I think he maybe saw to himself, I could be back in time for the Rangers game in January if I play my calves right here. All right then, Jim.
Well, I wish you the best.

I hope, you know, I don't know if you want to, it's nice for you to come on. It's nice to talk to you, but obviously, if it starts going well, we probably won't.
No, absolutely. And

I don't want to do in here for years, in fact.

Well, until Scotland beat Brazil, of course. Yeah, exactly.

Don't win, indeed.

Or lose to Haiti. It's one of the two, isn't it? Cheers, Mel.

All right. Cheers now.
Bye-bye. Jim Burke there, Barcelona from the RGC Celtic podcast.
And that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll do the Carabao Cup Cup quarterfinals.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So the Carabao Cup semi-final draw, Newcastle, Man City, Arsenal, Palace v.
Chelsea. Who's going to win the Carabao Cup, Jordan?

Oh, who's going to win the Carabao Cup? Oh,

I don't know.

I think you've got some really strong, strong teams left in there. I can put an argument forward for everybody.
Obviously, Arsenal Palace still have to play, so

they've got the most amount of games left to play. I think City look really good.
I think City are kind of getting into the groove.

I think City are purring, which is concerning for my team and everybody else.

If we start with the City win last night,

what's really scary about the City win is that they're now winning quite a few games in second gear.

They seem to be just not expeeding too much energy in getting wins in the league and in the league cup last night over the line. Beautiful goal from Shirky.
I think they'd have to be the favourites.

I do. I think Arsenal are wobbling.

That's for sure. Crystal Palace, I think it was a long shot.
Chelsea, who've got potentially Arsenal Palace in the next round.

I don't know if you could rule them out. They seem to have a really good cup record over the last few years.
But I think City are the

other team that I'd put the smart money on at the moment.

Yeah, I mean, that Cherky goal, Sam, he is one of, currently, right now, one of the most exciting players to watch based on, you know, that Rabona that I criticised in this finish.

But, God, he strikes that. It's like it's sped up, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it was beautiful.
The little touch, it was such a subtle, the movement to shift it from left to right. And then the time.

I mean, if we did one of those graphics where the time between like ball leaving foot and hitting the net, and it does take a little nick off the defender's head, but it's only about a yard away from the line there.

It's such a pure strike. Didn't please Pep, though.
Did you see? Pep afterwards said, Oh, yeah, close to the 18-yard box of the opponent. He is an exceptional player.
It was a fantastic goal.

So it's not necessary to be a journalist or a manager to realize he's a fantastic player.

Now, I love the fact that he has chucked journalists in with managers as if we are somehow great judges or footballers ahead of the general public.

But then his last line was, after that, he didn't play very well. So it's not enough just to score that absolute belter.
He's called him out in public.

But yeah, Man City looked really good, and he is a lovely little footballer. And to watch, it really was a super strike.

And also that touch, as he touched it, Michael Damscard just came in shot and went out of shot, didn't he? Just

there's he gone.

He's still running.

I mean, anything else from this than the City win? Take your eye, Baz. I mean, James Trafford

had another game, which was nice for him. Yeah, I mean, you gave a passing mention to a Brentford player there.
They also participated in this game. And

Keith Andrews is getting a bit of shade for leaving Jordan Henderson and Igor Thiago at home.

They weren't even on the bench. I don't think they were injured.
And

Brentford have Wolves on

Saturday, I think, or Sunday.

And they're actually staying up in Manchester. They were due to train at Manchester City's training ground this morning.

So people are saying, you know, this is a competition Brentford should be trying to win. So why are you leaving out your star striker and one of your most influential senior players?

But

we always hear this during cup games, league cup games, FA Cup games. Other squad members deserve to get a run out.
You mentioned James Trafford there.

He played, he kept a clean sheet. He made a few saves.
I thought Valdemarson in goal for Brentford as well, instead of Quevie and Kelleher, he played okay.

He was all right. Can't say I'd ever heard of him before.
Yeah, I don't really have anything much else to add. Trafford played, he didn't concede.
So, you know.

Yes, Sam. I know you've talked about James Trafford before.
No,

I'm not going to go on James Trafford. Brentford have history.
I remember being on this show this time last year, and they'd just played up at Newcastle in the Cup quarterfinal.

And we were very surprised that they'd left Buemo, and I think it was Norgard out. They basically left two of their most exciting and best attacking players out at that point.

So, they obviously don't prioritise this competition. I mean, is it worth talking about the potential red card? Keith Andrews was certain that Kushinov should have been sent off.

It was that tackle on Shadow. He's outside the box.
He is going through. It is a clear goal scoring opportunity.
I think

Brentford is staying up and they're training at City's Training Ground today.

So him and Guardioto was asked about it afterwards, and they're going to have coffee and discuss it, Guardioto and Andrews. But I think it's a very legitimate shout.

And had VAR been in place, I'm not sure Kushinoff stays on the pitch. And that could have changed it.
Oh, yeah, let's go to the game at St. James' Park then.
Newcastle Week for him 2-1.

A nice moment for Lewis Miley-Sam there in the last minute.

It looks like he's grown a foot in the last year. In my mind, he's tiny, but he's enormous.
He's just been solidly on the weights for a year.

They talked about in the last 18 months how the sort of boy's become a man. And he is still 19.
He was 17 when he first played.

I stood next to him in a lift at one of the European games earlier in the season. And while he is a big tall man, he still looks very much like a child.

But yet he has become Newcastle needed a local hero, right? After Sunday and they had a local hero at the start. There's been a bit of controversy about the song.

We come out to local hero and the players had decided, apparently, that they knew better than the fans and they wanted it a little bit earlier in the playlist.

They wanted something that would get them up for the game at St James' Park. So we haven't been coming out to Local Hero.
Yeah, it didn't land that well.

The fans weren't, I mean, all these fan consultations that you seem to have that are are just meaningless. No, no one asked Newcastle fans about that, but that was back.

So there was a local hero in its rightful place at the start, a local hero at the end. He has become, he's ahead of Joe Linton.
He's in Newcastle's best midfield three now.

He's played 65 odd games at 19.

There was a point, he made his 50th appearance for Newcastle earlier in the season, and he had to turn his, it was on his Twitter and he turned the comments off because he'd been getting so much social media abuse.

And we know what social media is like, but he is becoming ahead of Joe Linton. It's this Newcastle trying to develop someone who is a little bit better on the ball, isn't just a fighter in midfield.

He's got that little bit of quality, and he looks like he believes he should be there, which I think was the difference previously.

He's been someone who sort of gets the ball and then immediately just gives it to Sandra Tonali or Bruno Guimaraz because he's almost deferring to them.

Whereas now he has that little bit more confidence. He plays with his chest up.
He scored a couple of goals, scored with his head away at Labour Council last week, did so again this time.

He played it right back as well. And Howe said afterwards that basically he gave him a load of information on the morning of the game.
That's how often Newcastle are playing.

So he's clearly an intelligent footballer. And

at the moment, he is in a better stage in his career than Elliot Anderson was at a similar age. Like he's getting game time.
Howe has played him,

like eased him in pretty well. And is now probably in Newcastle's first choice 11, which I think is kudos for him.
And it's lovely, obviously.

And he's got a a younger brother too there was an older brother who played a little bit in the 21s he's now at Hartleypool and there's a younger brother so presumably the younger brother is it's going to be even better wow the next longstaffs Jordan just a quick point on both the managers Max I think I've heard in recent months talk from the Newcastle fan base about Eddie Howe having potentially you know reached his peak and maybe the cup win yes last season was was as good as it was going to get and they're not overly happy with his performance this season.

I don't agree. I think there's more to come from Eddie Howe.

I wouldn't be stunned if they did win this cup again this season, but I think that kind of is interesting, an interesting contrast to Marco Silva, who it looks to me is a manager that maybe has peaked with Fulham.

I don't know where Fulham can go. Their ceiling seems to be a European spot of which even that they're struggling to try and get into nothing.

Do you say peak in terms of

this is the best that he can do or the best that he can do at Fulham and he could do better somewhere else? Because he's often been in that.

He's sort of the last person in the conversation for Tottenham, for example. He's like, and also Marco Silver might get it, but he doesn't.

Yeah, no, I think what I mean, I think is he's peaked with what he can do with Fulham.

But I also don't know Fulham, and I say this knowing that Crystal Palace won a trophy last year, but I don't know if even Fulham, there's a higher ceiling for Fulham to be, do you know what I mean?

If they're not winning the League Cup, they're not going to finish above 7th or 8th. I don't know, A, how much further they can go, but yeah, I don't also know how much further he can go with them.

I just thought that was a nice contrast with a manager that I think actually could still do some more with their club, i.e. Eddie Howe.

Eddie Howe definitely seems to get more of a pass than other managers whose teams are struggling, I think.

Now, I do appreciate Sam mentioned that Lewis Miley had to play it right back last night.

At the moment, Newcastle have Lewis Hall, Dan Byrne, Kieran Trippier, Tino Livermento went off last night with what looked like it could be a bad knee injury.

Emile Crafts, Venn Bottman, all out injured. So that's a lot of defenders.

They played Chelsea at home, I think,

at the weekend. So I guess it's going to be Lewis Hall and Will Alex Murphy, the Irish kid, he came on last night.
He'll probably have to play it left back, will he?

So they're really down to the absolute bare bones in terms of defence. I mean, did Eddie Howe get any grief or much, if any, grief after the debacle on Sunday, Sam?

I know you wrote about the game and you weren't impressed with what you saw as a Newcastle fan. It's such a difficult one.
Eddie Howe, I've said it before, like

brilliant manager, done amazing things in Newcastle.

The worry is and the concern is, I'll answer your question directly. Yes.
Yes, he did.

Because, and I know you talked about the game, I didn't listen because, funnily enough, I have disengaged from that game completely.

I wrote my report while standing in a police cordon afterwards, and that is it. I don't need, I didn't need anyone to tell me how rubbish Newcastle United were that day.

I saw it for my eyes, for myself. I think he

did everything wrong. Say again.

Did you see the goal?

I saw the goal. I saw the goal.
It was the best header I've seen Nick Walter Mada

come up with in his time at Newcastle. I also, I parked in Sunderland City Centre.

So once I'd found a reasonable police officer to allow me out of the queue for the Metro, which I would have stood in for an hour and a half, I had to walk through Sunderland City Centre, listening to pubs full of Sunderland fans singing Nick Voltamada, He's One of Our Own.

That was

tough.

The thing, Sunday, Eddie Howe got everything wrong. And right, here's so, here's the thing, right?

This is Newcastle United fans do not think we have, there's no divine right to be in the top five, to be

a top club. But we're getting told by the CEO that Newcastle were aiming to be a number one club in the world.
Never going to happen. Unrealistic.

But that is what the club are openly saying, the ambition. So when you're measuring where Newcastle United are and what the team is doing, you have to go, well, that's what the club's trying to do.

Is it anywhere near getting them? And when you're going away, the away record is horrendous.

and when you're going away in the biggest game of the year and it is the biggest game of the year and i don't think the players appreciate that

and not even trying to score a goal for an hour or so anthony langer who

is

up there if not the worst pound for pound signing you castle have had it's a strange signing um

hadn't started a game for a while and suddenly starts that game. In the 94th minute, there was that fracker where everyone got booked and Sunderland did really well.

They got Newcastle to do exactly what they want to do. And everyone in the away is is going, oh, finally, you actually showed some fight.
You guys have realized we're in a derby game.

And in that away end, two and a half thousand in the away, and you take out the corporates, and I don't know, seven, eight hundred tickets, right?

What you've actually got, and this is not ranking fans in terms of importance or anything like that, saying people are better fans, but what you've got in that away end are the people who have followed Newcastle United and around the country.

Like, you need a lot of points to get that ticket. And there was a lot of,

we're a bit fed up with this from Eddie Howe. And if you just start to lose that group, forget about social media, if you lose the most loyal fan base, then you start to be in a bit of trouble.

And he hasn't, and it was an emotive reaction. But I still think there's a lot of people that shut down legitimate questions about

Newcastle's evolution from a side who are brilliant in one-off games, who are brilliant at playing on the break and beating the big teams. I'd almost expect us to beat Chelsea.

The thing about Sunday was it was so predictable. Newcastle fans knew we were going to get that performance.
Chelsea at home, big game, team coming at us, injury crisis, perfect.

We'll probably win that game. I think Lewis Hall will be back.
I think they were just protecting last night.

But what I've given is a very long answer to what is quite a complex question, but I agree with Barry. He does get a bit of a free pass.
Like a Premier League manager should always be under pressure.

And in my day job, if I'd have turned up for something with our basically the firm's most important client and performed that poorly, I would be under serious pressure after last Sunday.

So, um, it's a tricky one. I don't think he is under any pressure.
The club is too Eddie House-centric, actually. It's set up around him.

He has a lot of power at New Castle United Football Club, and I'm not saying they should get rid of him either. But how much credit, how long would you give someone? People, that this whole

oh, he's got enough credit to be given till the end of the season. Like, is that should that be a thing in football at elite sport?

I don't know, and that doesn't just apply to how it applies across the board.

Can I take back my answer, Max then? I'll take that back again.

I was going to say,

for the tape, Sam's day job, he's a hitman as well. So it is important that, you know, he does exactly as instructed by his bosses.

Chelsea, who Newcastle play at the weekend, they won 3-1 at Cardiff. Game played on Tuesday night.
And actually,

quite an interesting game, I thought, Barry. And Sonny and George on Tuesday said Cardiff would give a good account of themselves, and they did.

Yeah,

they were no doubt spurred on by a full house in the Cardiff City Stadium. I thought they played with, they didn't seem to be in any way overawed by the arrival of Chelsea.
They played with

ambition, confidence, ping the ball around nicely. And ultimately, they lost because their players aren't as good as Chelsea's players.
Chelsea are a much better team.

But they certainly didn't disgrace themselves, went behind

to a soft goal. Dylan Lawler, the Cardiff centre-back, gave it away very cheaply.

And Buenenate,

Chelsea just swarmed forward, and Buenenate fed the ball to Garnacho, scored. Then Cardiff equalized, brilliant David Turnbull header from a period,

how do we say this, G cross.

And then, yeah, Chelsea sort of ran away with it at the end. Garinacho and Pedro got two more, but I thought

Cardiff

were decent, and you know, they obviously have bigger fish to fry trying to get out of big league one,

but

they were all right. I mean, Chelsea had made a lot of changes.

Well, couldn't have made more. They had 11 changes from their last game, and the games sort of swung in their favour when they bought Jao Pedro and Garnacho on it at halftime.

Jordan, what do you make of the Maresca situation after what he said? I think he's a frustrated manager. I think he's a manager that wants to win the Premier League.

And I think he's realising that he's at a club with an ownership model. And I'm not saying anything that's not been said before here that

seemingly that isn't their number one priority. And I think he's a manager that wants more.

I think he may potentially be making those comments because in the January window coming up he wants to try and get in his bid for some money to kind of get some players in that could make him that could get them back in the title shakeup but i think he's a very frustrated manager that wants to do more but is seeing that actually he's in a he's at a club that he's going to find it very difficult to achieve his personal ambitions with the ambit in line with the ambitions of the club and i just think he's realized that now and he's just like you know what sod it i'm gonna put out these convoluted comments but i think i think we know what he's saying.

He's saying, I'm not happy, I'm not happy with what I got here. I want more, I need more.
I mean, if I can't get more, I think he's prepared to swing and be taken out.

God, I mean, they spent quite a lot. I know they're spent on young players, but you know, when you find a billion spent, you say, I want more.
So, at some point, it feels greedy, doesn't it? But

we'll see what happens. But, yeah, that's the early kickoff on Saturday.
We'll do the rest of the Premier League preview in part three.

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Well, it's part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Spurs Liverpool feels big, Sam, doesn't it?

Sort of, there is a sword of Damocles crisis claxon hanging over this one for one of those managers. And I think that manager is probably Thomas Frank.

Yeah, that I mean, I can't think quickly enough on my feet to continue the metaphor and say how close to the Thomas Frank's neck that sword is hanging. I mean, I am a hitman, after all, I should be.

I mean, the sword of Damocles is one of my most used tools.

Spurs fans don't like him.

He's not picking up results. He's in that Nuno zone already.
He's been in that Nuno zone for a while of supporters. A little bit like a manager we were talking about at the top of the show.

For whatever reason, they have decided that he is not their man and it is worrying. I mean, it's fun as an outsider to watch those kind of games.
It should be a lot of fun.

I don't think Slot's under real pressure at the moment. But yeah, Frank just...

That's the way football works, right? He'll probably get a result.

Will it change the opinion? I have people swayed back and forward, myself included, and we're very fickle.

Does a result change it probably not i i think spurs fans have already written him off from the ones i've spoken to they just want him to go which i think is sad because he seems like a nice man and is obviously a good manager but it could be a wrong place wrong time Possible.

I mean, that happens to Spurs a lot, I guess, Barry. But I think all it means is if you're in that position, you've just got to...

Do we, you know, if the tide is swinging against you, you need a result like this against somebody good. And Liverpool are sort of back on form a bit, aren't they?

I hate previewing the weekend games because you invariably end up looking like a chomp and you would imagine liverpool should win this fairly comfortably but there's every chance they won't and if spurs do win it then obviously that will buy frank time i i i i think the um spurs need this win more than liverpool i know having a had a poor season but uh Yeah, I think the Spurs fans that I know also, they're generally not having Frank.

And I think Frank needs a big win, as Sam said I think for Liverpool with most Salah having left now for Africon the attention now is going to be solely on slot because now okay now you've got that so-called big problem out the way let's see what team you play let's see if actually Salah was the problem I think the scrutiny on on slot now I think will be a lot a lot more so um I'm interested to see um what happens in this game for both of those particular narratives slot and whether he can you know get a get 11 together that's that looks coherent and strong, but also Thomas Frank.

If they lose at home to Liverpool, albeit they're the champions, I think we could be in that territory of you know, two games to go to save your job with Frank. I really thought it was going to work.

When they beat City, you know, when I won tuna at City early on, I was like, this is perfect. This is going to be so good.
And he's a great guy, and everyone loves him. You never know.
You never know.

Jordan, how are you feeling about the top of the table? Man City can go top with a win against West Ham before you go to

Everton and the 8pm

late kickoff. I think it's fair to say Manchester City will be top by the time we play a yard game because

all due respect to West Ham, I can't see anything happening there.

Yeah, Arsenal, this is a title race. It's never going to be easy.

You've got to expect bumps in the road.

People had said we won the league six weeks ago. Now we're going to bottle it.
Arsenal got to ride this out.

It's not going to be an easy game against Everton, although they do have, I think, Dewsbury Halls out injured with a hamstring. He's been playing quite well quite recently.

And a couple of key players that have gone to Afcon will definitely weaken Everton. It's a game I expect Arsenal to win because I think that

they need to kind of come through this Christmas programme with some form. And look,

the narrative will be if City go back top, oh, you know, Arsenal can't do it. Arsenal just got to just focus on themselves and just got to stand firm and make sure that they focus on what...

winning their games because they're a very, very good team. And I think this will be their season.
But it's going to be difficult. They've got to ride it up.
Sam?

Iliamanian Jay is a massive miss for Everton. Like I find at the risk of the wrath of Everton fans, they're a strange team.
They're a very moisian team.

Big centre-afts. Let's try and find some centre-afts to fill in at full back half the time as well.

And it's old school, 4-4-2. Give the ball to your two creative players and see what they can do.
And one of those, one half of that creativity isn't there.

And if Jupiter Hall has been brilliant for them, by the way, but yeah, I followed Njai for a while and he is just fun to watch.

And missing him, missing Idrissa Garnage and missing a centre forward it's not that they've got a centre forward away it's just that they haven't got one of any kind of note um so you you've got a back arsenal to go like this is this is it's all cliches isn't it but like if you don't if you can't go and win this game when you're under pressure with with all your attacking options and all that strength then you probably aren't going to end up winning the title but i think they will go there and and win like come quite comfortably or maybe i'm scarred because i watched nicassel beat everton quite comfortably but either side of that they've had some really good results.

But I find them weird. I just don't think they're very good.

As a team, I think they've got some good players and they rely on individual brilliance, which is quite an old school, almost a basketball methodology. So I think Arsenal have enough.

Yeah, I'm hoping one day they play Barry and Betto up front together in a classic big man, big man. That's the dream.

I mean, really, the perfect way for this season to finish is for Arsenal to come second and Aston Villa to pip them just for the amount of just for Jordan Jarrett Bryan's mentions.

Villa play Manchester United, Barry. I'm loath to ask you a question previewing a game, given your stance on it, but if you could cast your eye over Villa Manchester United, how do you see it? Well,

since Monday, Manchester United are now being hailed as the reincarnation of Brazil 1970

because they scraped a draw against Bournemouth at home out of foreign Bournemouth. So I can't see anything other than a United victory.

I just, of course, look, Villa are on this incredible winning streak. At some point, it will end.

Will it end against Manchester United at Phillip Park on Sunday?

Possibly, but I think this would be a Villa win.

Do you fear Villa, Jordan?

I've kind of got to say no, no, haven't I, for the narrative.

You can be well, we try and be honest on this podcast. That's what we're doing.
I really do. I know.

I fear Una Emre.

That's who I feel.

I think he's the reason, the sole reason, in my opinion, they've got any chance of going deep in this title race. Morgan Rogers is on fire right about now.

But I fear they will peter out just because of resources.

So I don't fear them as genuine title contenders, no. But I think, as Barry said, they're on this great run.
I think they'll beat Manchester United and insert themselves over the Christmas programme

as a threat. But no, I think ultimately it will come down to Manchester City and Arsenal.

Was it just me, or did anyone else have the urge to say the funk soul brother when Jordan said right about now there?

I really had to struggle to stop myself. Why? Why are you saying

it's Christmas? People would have really enjoyed it. Any other games excite anybody looking at them? What else we got? Bournemouth, Burnley, Leeds Palace, Wolves, Brentford, Brighton, Sunderland.
Yes.

I'm going to call Wolves winning their first game of the season this weekend. Do you think so? I think they're going to beat Brentford at Molyneux on Saturday at three o'clock.

And Molyneux will be, it'll be a happy Christmas for everyone at Molyneux. Well, a less miserable Christmas

for the good people at Molyneux.

So I'm calling a Wolves win. Yeah, so.

And there's a very, very good chance I look like a chump on Monday.

Doesn't like previewing, but loves calling Wolves hopefully. Why do you ask Barry about Sunderland?

This is not with an agenda, but I'm just interested to know because they're the team that are going to miss the most players for AFCON. I think there's six players going off.

And I'm not a fay enough with Sunderland to know how many of them are regular starters and things like that.

Is this quite a big test? Most of them are.

No, Siddiqui has been absolutely outstanding.

playing in the centre of midfield alongside Granite Jacka. He tends to get overlooked a bit because Granite Jacka is Granite Jack, obviously.
But Siddiqui, he's like a little

just a pocket dynamo, limitless amounts of energy. His absence, and to be clear, I have no objection to any of these Sunderland players going to represent their countries.

There's a very sneery attitude towards AFCON in the UK among quite a few Premier League fans.

They all go with my blessing. I wish them all the very best of luck, and I hope they all come back hail and hearty and fit.

So, Siddiqui leaves, say, gives Dan Neal an opportunity to come in. Dan Neal was instrumental in getting Sunderland promoted last season.

He's one of several players who were instrumental in getting them up. They haven't really got a look in this season because of all the new players they brought in.

So, one presumes he'll get a chance to show what he can do in the Premier League. And

I think that's great. Luke O'Neill's another one.
I think he's he's still serving that silly ban he got for getting a red card when he was Sundalo and were losing a match 3-0.

But he will come in at some point and show what he can do in the Premier League. And Sundland already have enough points

that even if they don't pick up a single one during AFCON, they'll still probably be okay.

But I'm looking forward to seeing how they get on with these championship players getting a chance to step up. I

Brighton Away on Saturday could be maybe an after-the-lord mayor's show

performance. And if they do get beaten, that's fine.
I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Before we go to any other business,

we should send our thoughts to the friends and family of Ethan McLeod, 21-year-old Macclesfield forward,

who died following a car accident. He was travelling home from a National League North match on Tuesday night.
He joined Macclesfield this summer after coming through the Wolves Academy.

He'd already made an impression on the club. Was described as an incredibly talented young player with an infectious personality.

And yeah, incredibly sad. And that news broke yesterday almost on the radio.

And somebody texted in to say, look, they, you know, they were at that game, had seen him warming up for that game, and just incredibly sad.

Elsewhere, PSG beat Fluminese in the Intercontinental Cup on penalties. Is this a game that completely passed you by, Barry? Yes.
Yes.

Is it? Did it pass you by? The first I heard of it is is when you mentioned it just now.

Anyone else?

Anyone else?

Last night I heard about it, but before last night, yeah, I didn't know it was a game that was. No, that's okay.
You got there.

It's a FIFA competition. So it's sort of interesting how long this will carry on.
I think still regarded highly in South America. I was talking to Tim Vickery about it the other day.

So Fluminese were in that final. But it feels like that may have run its course.
I think it was in the Middle East somewhere.

But now the Club World Cup is there. Hard to see how this carries on as well.
The Guardian's top 100 footballers is out.

Outrageous Pacho is only at 48 or something, despite getting in FIFA's men's World 11. I mean, I don't know about you, Barry.
I can't remember.

I did submit my 40, but I can't remember who I voted for. But hopefully

they make the top 40. Do you want my top 10? Yeah, yeah, go on.

So

my top 10 from one down, or should I go from 10 up? I'll just go one down. I'd Vetino and I'd go ten like Bruno Brooks.
No, oh he spoiled it now, but yeah, go from ten like Bruno Brooks.

It's not live, Max. We can

edit it. I don't like, no, no, no, I don't believe we should, but anyway, carry on.
Okay, number one, Vetina, number two, Haaland, uh, three, Yamal, four, Kane, five, Kharatskilia,

uh, six, Moise Kaisedo, seven, Usmana Dembele, eight, Juan Neves,

nine, Nuno Mendez, and ten, Cole Palmer. Okay, and 40, my number 40 was Lionel Messi, because I thought I can't leave him out.
So I put him in a 40.

Do you want my 10? At 10, Virgil Van Dyke. At 9, Fabian Ruiz.
At 8, Mo Salah. At 7, Jiao Neves.
At 6, Erling Harland. At 5, Harry Kane.
At 4, Rafinia. At 3, Laminia Mar.

At 2, Vitinia, at 1, Usman Dembele.

Are any of those outrageous? I sort of, you know, reading them going, have I made any big errors there? Well, it's your opinion. So,

you know, it's your opinion when

you're on your fifth email and you're four days late and you're even later than Romario. That's what I was told.
Even Romario's guys in, so get yours in.

So

the FIFA Men's World 11 came out, which was Donaruma, Hakimi, Pacho Van Dijk, Mendez, Palmer, Belling, and Vitinia, Pedri, Yamal, and Dembele.

So, you know, there we are.

If you like those kind of things.

On the subject of half and half scarves, producer Joel says, you know, there's been a groundswell of interest, not appreciated in their lifetime, like Van Gogh, he says.

He said he might organise a flash mob giveaway in King's Cross. Dan, is there a link to buy one of the scarves? Thanks.
Merry Christmas.

Michael, just listening back to the pod, Sunderland's Derby Joy, December 15th, while discussing the West Ham half and half band, Barry mentioned there were quite a few football weekly ones left in the Guardian Towers.

My questions questions are: Can I have one? How much do they cost? Where can I find one? I've looked on the Guardian shop, I can't find any. Surely they weren't that popular.
You've run out.

Thank you to Max Barry, all the guests, of course, everyone working behind the scenes for all the pods this year. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas.
Best wishes for the new year.

Kevin, a donation of what amount to Barry's Marathon Journeys needs to receive one of the 50,000 Football Weekly scarves.

I mean, you were in the office, Barry. You have seen the boxes of scarves that are there.

Yes, I think 50,000 is probably a bit of an exaggeration, but there's a couple of hundred, I'd say, quite a few boxes of them.

I have no idea how to,

if they can be bought, where they can be bought, and I certainly can't be arsed

stuffing them in envelopes myself,

even if I do get to trouser the cash.

I mean, one of my best mates sells merch outside gigs for a living, and I reckon even he'd struggle to offload these.

He could

sell

sand to Mohammed bin Salman, I'd say.

I'll finish with this from Andreas.

Dear Football Weekly, I'm excited to report that Max and Barry star in a piece of speculative fiction published by Issues in Science and Technology, a publication of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences in Washington, D.C.

Bonham Certain is a Christmas tale set in a not-too-distant future when an an American tech bro acquires a lower division football club and decides to dispense with human-a-human manager handing over the reins of the team to AI.

Without giving too many spoilers, I will share that Max and Barry dub what ensues as a robotic shithousery and listeners will be reassured to learn that even years from now, Barry is still giving Max a hard time for liking cold play.

I'm a long-time devoted listener of the pod.

I was so excited to pay tribute to Football Weekly in this story, which is especially fitting in this series that explores the impact of technology on society, given the one live show I've been able to attend was in the Museum of Science in London.

Happy Christmas to all. I'd appreciate you sharing the story with your listeners if you deem it appropriate.
Arsena Andreas has written it. I'll read you the website,

which is quite long. Here we go.
Nothing like reading out a full website, is there?

issues.org slash future tense fiction slash fiction hyphen bonham hyphen surtamen hyphen martinez slash forward slash no one will be able to access that no one on your jog is typing that down on your phone, on your smartphone as you're running.

Anyway,

go and find it. And thank you so much for putting us in fiction.
We appreciate it. And that'll do for today.
Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jordan.
Cheers, me. Thanks, Sam.

You're welcome. Thank you.
Thank you, Barry. Thanks, Max.
Football Weekly is produced by Asidus Great. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

This is the Guardian.