WFW: Berger’s brilliance denies France and Spain march on – Football Weekly

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.

Speaker 2 Hi, it's Paige DeSorbo from Giggly Squad.

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Speaker 25 When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game,

Speaker 26 Hi Guardian Football Weekly fans, it's Faye here.

Speaker 26 Now after we recorded today's pod reviewing Saturday's quarterfinals and previewing the two semifinals this week, some news broke that we have to address and so myself and Susie Rack have just jumped on to update you before you can then listen to the pod that we recorded this morning.

Speaker 26 So, the news concerns England defender Jess Carter, who's posted a message on social media addressing racist abuse she's suffered throughout the Euro 2025 tournament.

Speaker 26 You can read Susie's article on The Guardian, which has just gone up online for a bit more detail on this as well. Before we hear from Susie, this is Jess's Instagram post in full.

Speaker 26 A message to the fans. From the start of the tournament, I've experienced a lot of racial abuse.

Speaker 26 While I feel every fan is entitled to their opinion on performance and result, I don't agree or think it's okay to target someone's appearance or race.

Speaker 26 As a result of this, I'll be taking a step back from social media and leaving it to a team to deal with.

Speaker 26 As ever, I'm grateful for all the support from the genuine fans, but I'm taking this measure to protect myself in a bid to keep my focus on helping the team any way I can.

Speaker 26 Hopefully speaking out will make the people writing this abuse think twice so others won't have to deal with it.

Speaker 26 We've made some historic changes with this Lionesses squad that I'm so proud to be a part of and my hope is that by speaking out about this it will make another positive change for all.

Speaker 26 I'm now looking forward to focusing on putting all of my energy into helping my team, Jess Carter.

Speaker 26 The Lionesses have also put out a collective statement saying representing our country is the greatest honour.

Speaker 26 It's not right that while we're doing that, some of us are treated differently simply because of the colour of our skin. Until now, we've chosen to take the knee before matches.

Speaker 26 It's clear we and football need to find another way to tackle racism. We've agreed as a squad to remain standing before kickoff on Tuesday.

Speaker 26 They end it by saying those behind this online poison must be held accountable.

Speaker 26 Susie, you're in Zurich at the Lioness's Base Camp. Can you bring us up to speed with everything that's been going on there today?

Speaker 28 So I'm just out of a very powerful and moving press conference with Lucy Bronze, which focused primarily on the situation faced by Jess Carter in recent weeks during the tournament where she's faced a horrific level of racist abuse and Lucy was very, very powerful on it.

Speaker 28 She explained that they don't want to take the knee anymore in protest of racist abuse suffered by players because the message isn't as strong as it used to be.

Speaker 28 It's about putting out another statement to say that it's something that's still a problem and more needs to be done in society. What that is right now, I don't exactly know.

Speaker 28 It's something we want to work towards and this is a small step to try and make change.

Speaker 28 She was very emphatic in the support of the team and the FA towards Jess and any other players are suffering abuse in the tournament, which was incredibly, incredibly moving.

Speaker 28 And she also said they're very confident that the individuals involved will be brought to justice, that they work very closely with the police on incidents of racist abuse online, and they hope that they'll be targeted and stopped from from you know kind of continuing in the way that they are and yeah she also spoke generally about the responsibility of social media platforms and football to a clamp down on these incidences when they have the power to and also to you know kind of step up and uh campaign against racism more generally and uh you know it's not just a football issue it's a societal issue it's something that everyone needs to be mindful of and uh you know we shouldn't forget that get that it's there yeah So, it's an incredibly moving press conference, uh, hugely powerful.

Speaker 28 A lot of solidarity for Jess Carter from the playing group.

Speaker 28 They clearly written the statement together last night with a lot of emotion in the camp, and yeah, it's been really, really sort of wonderful to see that sort of level of solidarity among them and that support for one of their own as well.

Speaker 28 And then, you know, kind of taking a stand that will have huge ripples through hopefully the country and the world when

Speaker 28 the messages go out there and and when people read the statements and when they see them not take the knee against Italy because of it.

Speaker 28 Yeah, it's a huge amount of potential for them to push for change in the way that they have been on so many other issues in recent years.

Speaker 26 Thank you, Susie. You're right.
What we know about this Lioness's squad is they won't stop until this issue is addressed properly. Not just platitudes from social media platforms, real change.

Speaker 26 I'm sure we're going to be speaking more on this.

Speaker 26 What I can tell you is that the Football Association is working with authorities to track down those responsible, speaking to police and the platform involved.

Speaker 26 UEFA have condemned the abuse, and Carter's club, Gotham FC, has also responded in support of Jess, saying, We believe in a culture of mutual respect and remain committed to building a game and a community where everyone feels safe, respected, and celebrated.

Speaker 26 There is no place for racism in our sport.

Speaker 26 Look, there's so much more to discuss on this, which we will be doing on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Speaker 26 But for now, here is the pod that we recorded early on Sunday morning before this news broke.

Speaker 27 Hello, I'm Faker Others, and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Now, that is how you do a penalty shootout.
And Katrinberger take a bow.

Speaker 27 Germany says bon voyage to France, despite being down to 10 for the majority of their quarterfinal. Hair pulling, a red card, a missed penalty, goals ruled out, and then a shootout.

Speaker 27 The game had everything.

Speaker 27 The hosts are out as well. Spain saw off Switzerland, another match full of drama and so we have our four semi-finalists confirmed.

Speaker 27 We'll dissect all that, we'll preview the semis, plus we'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Speaker 27 What a panel we have today. Sizirak, how are you doing? I'm alive.
Are you all cheesed out yet? You're alive, which is good.

Speaker 28 Yeah, yeah. Cheesed out.

Speaker 28 I've cut down on the cheese. Like, you, you know, you reach cheese saturation point, and I think I'm there.

Speaker 28 I did buy some cheddar in the supermarket the other day, and the guy at the counter went, Oh,

Speaker 28 English cheese.

Speaker 28 And I was like, Yeah. And he was like, Do you think it's better than Swiss cheese? And I went, No,

Speaker 28 but it just melts really well on pasta.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 28 then hurriedly left, embarrassed and ashamed of my

Speaker 28 buying imported English cheese.

Speaker 27 I don't even want to know how much imported English cheese was in Switzerland.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 28 I didn't look, but we got charged £15.

Speaker 28 That's the rough conversion, for two bottles of tap water

Speaker 28 for the table in Mexican the other day, which seems to be pretty standard. That gives you the context.
Oh, I bought some Geyoza, you know, like just five pieces of Geyoza, £16.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 27 Wow. I did see a friend of the pod, Emma Sanders, say that she was charged almost £40 for four small beers the other day.

Speaker 27 Interesting.

Speaker 27 So Fdowney, back from Basel. What time did you roll in after that epic last night?

Speaker 1 I got home about three o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 1 And then when you're after a game like that, you're like constantly wired, so it takes a little bit of time to get to sleep.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 1 living on fumes at the moment, but loving life. And I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say that I don't actually like cheese that much.

Speaker 1 I like cheese on my pasta, but I probably don't really belong in Switzerland, do I, if that's the case?

Speaker 27 Maybe not, but neither do I because I can't eat cheese anymore. Goat's cheese, maybe.

Speaker 1 Oh, God.

Speaker 28 I'm doubting our friendships.

Speaker 27 I tell you what it reminds me of, actually, you coming in.

Speaker 27 You remember back in the day, probably more teenage years or early 20s, when you'd get in, you'd be that person rolling in, and you'd see the milkman.

Speaker 27 I mean, that is showing how old I am, to be fair, but you'd see the milkman, and you'd get in, and then you'd carry on your day as if you'd had eight hours' sleep because you were that young and able to do it.

Speaker 1 I am not that young or able to do it anymore.

Speaker 27 Well, you look fresh as a daisy to me, as does Tim Stillman. How are you?

Speaker 1 Not too bad.

Speaker 29 And I do like cheese

Speaker 29 for pretty much all shapes and sizes.

Speaker 27 Susie was literally just about to log off.

Speaker 1 Susie has left the chat.

Speaker 27 Right, listen. Before we start reviewing the last two quarterfinals, a couple of emails we've received at women's football weekly at theguardian.com.
If you want to send one in, please do.

Speaker 27 Thanks to Tamara, who did.

Speaker 27 Dear Susie, as an English-born Australian living in Vienna, I'm very grateful to The Guardian for high-quality international reporting, especially the coverage of women's football.

Speaker 27 I've really enjoyed hearing the various iconic Swiss products assigned to each team competing in the Euros that you keep mentioning on the pod.

Speaker 27 And although I subscribe to The Guardian, I can't seem to pick up the list or the pull-out anywhere online. Can you please help? Thanks, Tamara.

Speaker 27 Tamara, I have sent you the photos because there is no link to the pull-out because it is exactly that. It is a pull-out, but you can also go and look up all of the profiles of all the players online.

Speaker 27 That is there as well. And thank you for your lovely email.
We've got another one as well. Hi team, just tuned into the podcast at the start of the Euros.

Speaker 27 I want to thank you all for the great coverage and analysis.

Speaker 27 Currently listening after England's miraculous recovery against Sweden, I first watched the ladies' game when the World Cup in Canada was broadcast here in Ireland and I was hooked immediately.

Speaker 27 My predictions have been on point so far all tournament and it certainly has paid off opposing the Club World Cup. But I believe France go all the way and lift their maiden title.

Speaker 27 As cheese comparisons go, they're a Red Leicester, always found when needed most, reliable and consistently quality throughout.

Speaker 27 Keep up the good work, makes great listening in the truck week in, week out. New long-term listener secured.
Warm regards, Conor McGinty from North West Ireland.

Speaker 27 Connor, thank you for that brilliant email. That's it though, your predictions.
You are now officially a Guardian Women's Football Weekly pod fan because your predictions are as terrible as ours.

Speaker 27 France are out. The Red Leicester's gone moldy.
They've disappeared because the quarter-final stage concluded two fascinating encounters for very different reasons.

Speaker 27 And listen, you know, we try to go chronologically sometimes

Speaker 27 during this tournament, but we're not going to today because the drama that was served up last night was well worth us discussing first and foremost.

Speaker 27 Two heavyweights of the women's game in France and Germany. They always deliver.
And I tell you what, no different last night. Christian Vuchs, 10 player side, knocking out Leble

Speaker 27 from the competition. One hair pull, one red card, two disallowed goals, one normal time penalty scored, one missed, one truly world-class save, and a shootout for the ages.

Speaker 27 It finished one all after 120 minutes.

Speaker 27 Grace Gaioro's penalty was cancelled out by Schuker Nushkin, and Germany had been reduced to 10 on 13 minutes after VAR spotted Katrin Hendrick pulling on Griej from Bock's hair as she defended a ball in the box.

Speaker 27 A penalty shootout followed. Germany eventually won it 6-5, thanks in no small part to the heroics of Anne Catrin Berger.

Speaker 27 I don't even know where we start with this, really, Susie, but what did you make of it as an overall? And are you sick of penalties yet, or do you love the drama?

Speaker 28 Oh, it's great when you've got no skin in the game. Then I love penalties.

Speaker 28 And it was nice to see some actually good ones. But yeah, chaos, pure chaos, like brilliant to watch, brilliant fun.

Speaker 28 I think, you know, everyone sort of thought the second that Hendrik was sent off that you know it was going to be a little bit game over.

Speaker 28 And I think there was a little bit of a sigh of disappointment that, oh, the fantastic encounter we were we were hoping to watch would now be a foregone conclusion.

Speaker 28 But that Germany hold on was phenomenal. I mean, obviously, the red card was just mad.
Yeah, coming off the back of

Speaker 28 of Warmser's red card in the previous game, like just two moments of complete madness, like, just shouldn't be happening when you've got top athletes who, in theory, know the rules of the game, and uh, and um, yeah, know that VAR is watching as well.

Speaker 28 Feels like a really weird thing, but yeah, absolute thrilling chaos. But you can never write off Germany, right? Like, you can just never write them off.
And I think there was a little bit of a like

Speaker 28 they weren't hard done by, it was a completely fair red card. But I feel like they felt like they were being hard done by that.

Speaker 28 This is, you know, their backs to the wall tournament, they've lost their captain to injury, They've had red cards in two matches. Like, I think it created a little bit of a siege mentality.

Speaker 28 And then, you know, that really helped them get through that game. Who knows how they're going to do it against Spain? You would say that that would be a foregone conclusion too.

Speaker 28 But all bets are off at the moment with this Germany team.

Speaker 27 Yeah, it feels like that, doesn't it? What was it like in the press box, Soph?

Speaker 27 Because Hendrix's red card did change the game, and I think we all just immediately thought it was going to be France steamrollering for the rest of the 80 minutes.

Speaker 27 Firstly, what was she thinking if you can try and get inside the place

Speaker 27 mind and how did it change everything that kind of came after?

Speaker 1 Yeah it was a bit actually a bit weird in the press box because we don't have any screens so

Speaker 1 like there was a long pause before the VAR check was actually announced on the major the big screen in the stadium and no one had seen what had happened because we'd all been following the ball and this actually happened off the ball.

Speaker 1 Like they weren't anywhere near the ball had come into the box but Mbok and Hendrik weren't actually anywhere near near getting the ball.

Speaker 1 Um, so we all had to, like, peer over someone's very small uh iPad as we watched the replay to try to figure out what on earth was going on.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, when we all saw the hair pull, we were like, What on earth? I mean, Hendrik is 33 years old. This is her fifth or sixth major tournament.

Speaker 1 She's not a naive, you know, youngster who's come into the squad for the t first time and been taken away by the emotions of it all.

Speaker 1 It just really, really baffled me in terms of the decision making, especially like you don't do that anyway, but especially when VAR is in play, you just don't do that at all.

Speaker 1 And it's really interesting, I think, going down to 10, because I think everyone assumes it's

Speaker 1 the team that goes down to 10 that's at the disadvantage. And maybe more often than not it is.
But sometimes something about it happening that early just rips up a game plan for both sides.

Speaker 1 And suddenly, not only are Germany having to completely reconsider what they were doing, and maybe it suited them that they went back to a four at the back and just really dug in and sat deep.

Speaker 1 But France then had to really like deal with the kind of not just the

Speaker 1 chasing down of the German team, but kind of the mental side of it as well, knowing that they should be winning this game.

Speaker 1 And I think as soon as Nuskin's header went in, you could sort of see all of their shoulders just drop that little going, oh God, it's happening again.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I think it was a very, very interesting example of what can happen when someone is sent off that early.

Speaker 27 A lot of the German press had talked about Germany's defensive issues leading into the game, Tim. But, you know, exactly as Soph said, as soon as they were down to 10, they just didn't stop.

Speaker 27 And Christian Vuch, their manager, said, I can say for certain tonight was the best and hardest fought performance I've seen from the team since I've known them. How impressed were you with them?

Speaker 27 Bearing in mind all the criticism that they'd had leading into it, particularly because of that game against Sweden.

Speaker 29 Yeah, definitely. And obviously, they got another right back injury in this game with Linda going off early.
And there were rumours beforehand of whether it would be a back five as well.

Speaker 29 I think Soch makes a really good point there about sometimes it can really crystallise things for you going down to 10.

Speaker 29 And I think we'd seen Germany taken apart because they commit their fullbacks too high and they couldn't do that anymore.

Speaker 29 And they really had to kind of just concentrate on digging in and defending, which probably helped them because they are defensively weak.

Speaker 29 I think also though, what really helped Germany was that the thing, and I think we saw this in the other quarterfinal was Switzerland, the thing when you're really bedding in and trying to defend that you need is an outlet and to get a break and to carry some threat in the other direction.

Speaker 29 And the fact that they kind of dropped Schuller for Hoffman, that really, really helped them, I think, in this game state, having a hold-up player like that.

Speaker 29 But the threat that Julie Brandt and Clara Ball carry on the counter as well really, really helped them.

Speaker 29 And actually, someone called Blair Newman, who's a very good women's football analyst, at the time of the red card, he posted this on his Blue Sky account.

Speaker 29 To be fair, of all the teams to handle a defender being sent off, Germany are probably the best. They can keep the back four.

Speaker 29 Hoffman, a great relief valve, while Brandon Bull remain as they were, real threats on the counter. I think that's exactly what happened in this game.

Speaker 29 And I also think France are not suited to playing against a team like this because they really thrive on running into space.

Speaker 27 It does feel a little bit as if

Speaker 27 somebody's saying to Christian Vuc, no, no, no, no, no, we just don't like the tactics of bombing the fullbacks up every single time. So we're just gonna take them all out of the game.

Speaker 27 You've got none of them left to play.

Speaker 27 Kind of fast forwarding, Susie, to the shootout a little bit, which is doing a slight disservice, I think, to the rest of the game in many ways. But we'll get to how bitty it was in the end.

Speaker 27 But it was another topsy-turvy one, but all of the credit has to go to Anne Katrinberger.

Speaker 27 We gave a little bit of criticism to Jennefer Falk of Sweden the other day for stepping up to take that fifth penalty but Berger stepped up for it and you just knew she was going to score it.

Speaker 27 You know, she was brilliant in the penalty shootout even though. She didn't actually have that much to do.
Brilliant preparation with the water bottle.

Speaker 27 You know, it used to just be on the back of somebody's hand. Now it's like fully printed out and in colour wrapped around a water bottle.

Speaker 27 But she made nine saves before the penalties, particularly that incredible cat-like one that she scooped off of the line. How impressed were you with her performance?

Speaker 28 Yeah, incredible. She loves penalties.
She's made no secret of it through the years. She absolutely adores penalty shootouts.

Speaker 28 You know, stepping up to take one and then, you know, literally walking straight into the goal to go up against one takes a huge amount of confidence.

Speaker 28 And I must have watched the sort of David Seaman-esque save about 300 times. In fact, I've got it playing on a loop in a w separate window because I just love it so much.

Speaker 28 And I really enjoyed a tweet that said I'd say hang it in the Louvre, but French people might not might have something to say about that. I thought that was quite amusing.

Speaker 28 She's

Speaker 1 a remarkable

Speaker 28 goalkeeper with a remarkable amount of confidence, but also a remarkable human being, right?

Speaker 28 Like having gone through thyroid cancer twice to return to the pitch and then, you know, to kind of be still playing at the top, top level she is and a very worthy winner.

Speaker 28 Like, you know, if you were going to say there was, you know, someone more deserving on the pitch, you'd be hard pressed to find one. But yeah, I really enjoyed watching it in my little apartment.
And

Speaker 28 I really enjoyed the coverage.

Speaker 28 literally showing the water bottle with the different positions that of the goal that various penalty takers go to and then like literally kind of saying right this penalty taker she thinks goes top left and then goes top left and she saves it you know like just that that level of detail in the coverage was really really satisfying as well and you know a really like interesting way to look at it and to watch watch that shootout which was which was really really enjoyable on the uh British coverage Sam Matterface as Sombath steps up says oh on her water bottle it says top left and that's obviously where she tries to go but what really added to that as well is AKB usually has her hands behind her back until the run-up.

Speaker 29 But for this penalty, she put her hands out, which was a clear indication to me. And as Susie said, I thought that really added to the coverage.

Speaker 29 Like, okay, she's got her hands up, so she's preparing for a higher dive. And yeah, it was

Speaker 29 great kind of theatrics as well as great goalkeeping.

Speaker 27 Yeah, I actually thought that was really impressive from ITV. They'd clearly

Speaker 27 the cameraman had honed in on the bottle and then they'd just freeze framed it and took all of the notes from it to give to Sam and Lucy Ward in the commentary box.

Speaker 27 And you're right, it absolutely added to it.

Speaker 27 It was fantastic drama. And I have the hands behind the back, I always just love, I just think, particularly, and I've avoided any oasis

Speaker 27 kind of puns throughout this whole tournament, by the way, because I just won't go there. But it's so Liam Gallagher, isn't it, when she's standing there

Speaker 27 in the goal mouse. We really need to talk about France, though.
So in the last nine major tournaments, they've progressed past the quarterfinal stage just once.

Speaker 27 This was their 12th loss in 12 against Germany at a major tournament. And what do you think that is down to?

Speaker 27 Because we were all so convinced, weren't we, that actually this France side could go all the way. And we heard earlier on from Connor being convinced that that was his prediction.

Speaker 27 I'd actually said in the last pod that I thought it could be an England-France bookended final, which I'm now, you know, going back in my predictions hole and never coming out of again.

Speaker 27 But what is the problem with them?

Speaker 27 What do they need to do to to break the curse?

Speaker 1 To be honest, this is probably not the answer for a podcast, but at this point, I have absolutely no idea because as

Speaker 1 Susie wrote in her match report for the Spain-Switzerland game the other day, Spain-Spained, France definitely Franced yesterday. They have this just ability to absolutely,

Speaker 1 I don't know, destroy their hopes.

Speaker 27 Are they Francie?

Speaker 1 No, Francie. On paper, they have a team, a squad, and they always have done, worthy of winning a tournament.

Speaker 1 You know, when you look at the quarterfinals throughout the years, you look at the players that they've had in their kind of roster and you go, these teams should be winning trophies.

Speaker 1 And it kind of reminds me, there was a Dutch team, I think, the men's Dutch team, so of the 1970s, that were so, so good and they were they were brilliant but they never won a single trophy and they on paper they should have just like walked walked every single tournament but they just for some reason the men the mental side of the game for them just wasn't there and they just could not find a way through and i think this quarterfinal hex as it were for for france has got really like quite big at this point.

Speaker 1 You know, to only go through in one out of your last nine quarterfinals is absolutely shows a real problem, I think, that when they get to the stage of a major tournament, it probably does weigh really deep on them.

Speaker 1 That

Speaker 1 this is actually a real problem for us and it has been a problem throughout history. And I think it's going to take something considerable to break that.

Speaker 1 In terms of like what they can do, I mean, they've tried different managers, they've tried different players, they've tried being radical, they've dropped Wendy Renard.

Speaker 1 I think there will be an inquest into that after the tournament, you know, the way that that was done, you know, just a month before the start of the tournament, getting rid of Le Sommer and Dalia and Renard.

Speaker 1 Dalie has said that she would speak after France got knocked out of the tournament on what had happened. So I kind of anticipating, highly anticipating what's going to come out of that.

Speaker 1 There's going to be some tea, I think. But

Speaker 1 yeah, it's just a problem that you can't really name, I think, because, as I said, they've got the players that look brilliant against England at times, but they just fall apart in these moments, in these knockout stages of tournaments.

Speaker 27 I suppose it doesn't really help that Lauren Bonadi had turned around and said, yeah, we've not practiced penalties because I don't want them to put that pressure on them.

Speaker 1 No, why?

Speaker 27 That's just mad.

Speaker 1 What is it with managers? Like, honestly, Peter Goharson did the same. He didn't have a penalty session.

Speaker 1 I mean, the one thing you do when you get to knockout football is you practice your penalties because there is quite a high likelihood that you might get there.

Speaker 27 I just don't understand it.

Speaker 27 What's the phrase? Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

Speaker 27 Which I think sums up both Sweden and France who had been fantastic in this tournament and fail at penalties. But you know, Germany and England, thank you.

Speaker 27 50 fouls in the game, Tim. Five yellow cards, that early red one as well.

Speaker 27 I have to say, you know, Soph was there. The one thing that she says united the crowd was the disappointment with the referee.
How much do you think that that

Speaker 27 impacted the game?

Speaker 29 Yeah, a little bit. It played into Germany's hands, definitely.
And I think we're talking about Julie Brandt and some stats from her performance as well.

Speaker 29 She made six tackles, eight ball recoveries, but she won four fouls. And I think Germany were actually very good at doing that.

Speaker 29 They were very good at setting up that way, particularly with Hoffman up front. So I think Germany were quite good.

Speaker 29 It was quite a fussy referee and I think we saw that as well in the penalties as well, how fussy she was about the spotting up of the ball and I think that played into Germany's hands a little bit.

Speaker 29 They were able to break the game up quite well and it's true there probably should have been a few more yellow cards but they were quite kind of bitty fouls.

Speaker 29 I was quite amused as well when Anne Katrinberger went down in the last minute and those of us that watch women's football a lot will be very very familiar with with the with the emergency goalkeeper timeout which which Sam Matterface wasn't that familiar with and he kind of said oh there's a problem for Anne Katrinberger and Lucy Ward on CoComs was very much like I don't think there is

Speaker 27 I think she's okay yes

Speaker 27 right so Germany progress over to Bern on Friday night where a sea of red and white decked out Stadian Wankdorf the Swiss watching their side take on the world champions and despite a courageous effort just wasn't to to be for the hosts it finished Spain two

Speaker 27 Switzerland nil thanks to second half goals from Athenia del Castillo and Claudia Pina you were at the stadium in Bern Susie 25,000 fans marching from the city centre to support their team and they put in a real courageous performance what did you make of the game uh well first off i mean that atmosphere i was saying afterwards and maybe maybe i'm just being coloured by the fact that it's the most recent thing but um i think that's the best stadium atmosphere I've ever been in.

Speaker 28 Like, it was absolutely electric. Beyond just support for the team, that was what was got me.
I wrote it in the match report. Like, there were signs like this is just the beginning, and

Speaker 28 you know, women's football's here to stay, and things like that. It just felt like bigger than support for this Switzerland team.

Speaker 28 Like, in a way, you know, you go to Champions League finals, and the Barcelona fans are there to cheer for Barcelona, and the Arsenal fans are there to cheers for Arsenal.

Speaker 28 You go to, you know, the Euro final, and you know, everyone's there to support England and

Speaker 28 in 2022 and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 28 But this felt bigger, it felt like people going, you know, this is this is our moment, this is it, and like the fact that you know they stayed so long afterwards and all that kind of stuff was just brilliant.

Speaker 28 So, that was like incredible. In terms of the game itself, I thought they matched that energy on the pitch, like

Speaker 28 as much as you can against the world champions. The fact that they held on so long and you know, had such a battling, like defensive performance was

Speaker 28 just brilliant to watch and it was great because literally every well every sort of foul tackle um

Speaker 28 even pass was getting like huge cheer from the crowd and you know the crowd being the 12th man can be like so overrated a phrase but it really really felt like that was having an impact in this game.

Speaker 28 I mean obviously it was inevitable like given Spain's quality that they were going to find a way through at some point and that moment of magic from Bomati, the little like backwards back heel for the first goal to set up Del Castillo was like obviously sublime.

Speaker 28 It took that level, it took them elevating up a gear to break through that resilient Swiss back line. So yeah, like

Speaker 28 really enjoyable game to watch because the Swiss put on a show for their fans.

Speaker 28 They, you know, they knew that the expectations were low and they put on a show for their fans and the atmosphere was just incredible.

Speaker 27 Yeah, it really was. How crucial were Piers Sundhager's tactical changes for Switzerland's performance so?

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely crucial. She switched Iman Beniv to up front.

Speaker 1 Benev been playing right wing back most of the tournament and she is naturally a striker but she's got the pace to really stretch a back line and you could see that from minute one and especially when you've got a back line of Paredes and Alexandria who aren't typically the fastest defenders and do struggle when they have direct runners running at them.

Speaker 1 They look to exploit that with Sherton Leave sitting in behind.

Speaker 1 I think the problem for Switzerland was always going to be how much they could keep the game plan up.

Speaker 1 You know, they are inexperienced, they've got a young team, full of running, but at the end of the day, they haven't been in these situations before.

Speaker 1 And when you are without the ball, like you generally are without, you know, against Spain, it's incredibly, incredibly tiring on the legs. So she got the game plan, I think, spot on tactically.

Speaker 1 She tried to switch it up. There were a few of those notes going around in the final 15 minutes.
I think Leo Volti got two of them. I thought, by the way, I I thought Leo Volti was superb as well.

Speaker 1 She led by example in that midfield. She's like walking wounded.
She came into this tournament not at her fittest, I think, but she's managed to plow through.

Speaker 1 And I think the way that she dictated some of the midfield play when they did get the opportunity to break forward and also broke up some Spanish attacks led by example.

Speaker 1 And she kind of epitomises this Switzerland team. So

Speaker 1 I think, yeah,

Speaker 1 when they're looking at the game back, it won't be down to the game plan or anything or the

Speaker 1 kind of attribution of it. It will be down to the fact that they just didn't have the legs in the end.
And Spain have those quality players who can undo you in a moment.

Speaker 1 And when you're tired, especially, those moments of quality really matter.

Speaker 27 Switzerland's youngsters gained a lot of attention this tournament. But as Soph said, Susie, Leah Volte is the heart of the team, really.

Speaker 28 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 28 And the fact that they, you know, sort of had her switching between midfield and defence, like sitting back between the two centre-backs, but then uh shifting forward into that sort of more familiar defensive midfield position, getting forward as well.

Speaker 28 Like, she was just everywhere. I think it could be massively underestimated in a game like that, where you have barely any of the ball.

Speaker 28 How much running you have to do off the ball and how hard that is is, you know, can be a little bit underestimated, but she like, yeah, phenomenal. And as so said, like

Speaker 28 in and out of the Arsenal team at the towards sort of the second half of the season, like niggly problems, but also just you know, not necessarily always playing the best or preferred to you know, some of the other players in that team, but really pulled out the bag.

Speaker 28 And it's really quite moving to see her so emotional at the end of each game, like just looking at the crowds and soaking it all in

Speaker 28 because she's been such a like wonderful ambassador for the tournament. Her face is absolutely everywhere.
And she's really,

Speaker 28 really taken it on really humbly.

Speaker 28 And it's been really, really nice. Yeah.

Speaker 27 We need to talk about Spain, Tim.

Speaker 27 We're used to them looking free-flowing, you know, simple,

Speaker 27 effortless, but they look really infuriated a lot of this game. And probably the most frustrated, and gosh, that was the Doctor Evil kind of laugh, that was

Speaker 27 they looked very frustrated probably the more the most so that we've seen them in this tournament they had to show so much patience while you know obviously playing as they knew that they would be with a boisterous partisan crowd surrounding them but eventually the class kind of showed out and the magic came

Speaker 29 It really did. And obviously it's quite a unique thing to play the hosts in a knockout.

Speaker 29 You probably, even if Switzerland weren't the best team left in the tournament, I think that is significant playing the host team.

Speaker 29 But I think ultimately, I mean, first of all, obviously we had Mariana's penalty miss in the first half where she just kind of drags at it a bit.

Speaker 29 And I think if that had gone in, I think we'd have probably seen quite a different game. But really, with Spain, it's a little bit similar to England.

Speaker 29 Like, if it's just not going their way, who and what they can bring off the bench. Obviously, it's Athenia Del Castillo who scores the goal from the bench.
They can bring on Salma as well.

Speaker 29 And it's not just the quality of those players, but those players are very different. They provide a much more direct threat as well.

Speaker 29 So Spain actually have the tools to really switch things up as well, a bit like England do. And I think that's why Spain and England just look like the best teams in the tournament.

Speaker 29 They don't always look like in every phase of the game, the best team. Spain are probably closest to that.
But the players they can bring off the bench can really kind of demoralise you.

Speaker 29 And for Switzerland, I just think we're talking about Germany having those hold-up players. I think Switzerland done really well well this tournament.

Speaker 29 I think they've really missed Ramona Bachmann just as that little bit of experience in the forward line.

Speaker 29 They've got some wonderful young players, but they just didn't have an outlet and you did just feel that Spain were putting the squeeze on them.

Speaker 27 They are the Swiss Army knives, aren't they?

Speaker 27 I mean they're golden Toblerone, Spain and England, but they're actually the Swiss Army knives if we're using our mascot analogy that we've had on the pod during the tournament.

Speaker 27 Let's talk about the legacy for Switzerland though, though. So

Speaker 27 I mean the country really got behind their team. 25,000

Speaker 27 on that walk is incredible. How do they capitalise now on this moment? It's all well and good.
This three weeks has been wonderful and captured the nation, but now they need to build on it.

Speaker 27 How do they do that?

Speaker 1 It's going to be a tricky question to answer, but

Speaker 1 you kind of, when I was in the stadium on Friday, it was a really emotional occasion, I think, being there. Very, very special.

Speaker 1 And the way that you can see the Swiss fans embrace their team, there's a real bond now that's been forged between the players on the pitch and players as we said before who are generally quite young so those players are going to be playing for the next you know five to ten years and in a red and white shirt so they've made those like links with the fans right from

Speaker 1 for the for the future they've done their bit it's now up to the swiss fa to go away and do their bit and they need to make sure that they don't that they are very, very well prepared, that this isn't just a moment in time.

Speaker 1 They are not going to get this chance again. Switzerland, because they are the manner of a country that they are, they're small, they are a developing nation in terms of women's football.

Speaker 1 They aren't going to get a major tournament, I don't think, again, unless they combine with someone else because of where the women's game is going. So they really do have to use this moment.

Speaker 1 They have to have the infrastructure in place to allow young girls to play all over the country to play football from a young age, to give them

Speaker 1 access to facilities and give them investment. And

Speaker 1 I really hope they are prepared.

Speaker 1 We've seen, I know it's a very, very very different circumstance with england because england the investment the fa have put into women's football is like vastly like incomparable but i do think they prove that you can have a legacy from hosting a major tournament in terms of what happened in england and i really really hope the swiss fa are alive to that fact that they they need to really and then in terms of like the fans and supporters you know when the Swiss team next play at home, make sure you put them in a place that's accessible, that is big, that you could get, you know, 30,000 people, put them in Basel where there's, you know,

Speaker 1 there's a big stadia. You just need to make it keep, keep onto those hooks that really brought people into this tournament, because otherwise it's just going to be a wasted opportunity.

Speaker 29 It reminds me a little bit of Euro 2017, the Netherlands, but something the Netherlands did really well was started hosting open training sessions every time they played in the country.

Speaker 29 And I'd love to see Switzerland even do something like that just to keep the kind of links between the fans and the team.

Speaker 27 Yeah, it'd be really important, won't it? We'll keep an eye on that for sure. That's it for part one and part two.

Speaker 27 With the last four now decided, we're going to look ahead to the two semifinals coming up this week.

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Speaker 27 Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So the quarterfinals complete.
We have two massive semifinals to look forward to this week.

Speaker 27 We're left with the gold, the toblerone, the railway clock and aluminium foil. It is not a game of monopoly.

Speaker 27 A very interesting Swiss version of Monopoly. These are the mascots assigned to the last four.

Speaker 27 First up, let's look at the Lionesses who take on Italy in Geneva on Tuesday. Eight o'clock British summer time.

Speaker 27 That game starts. The dark horses against the reigning European champions.
How do you see this one going, Susie?

Speaker 28 Who knows?

Speaker 27 Like, I mean, like, does anyone have an answer this possible?

Speaker 28 No one can predict anything. Everything's out the window.
Like, I mean, I'm quite worried for England, to be honest.

Speaker 28 Like, you know, in theory, on paper, they should beat Italy comfortably, but they've played 120 minutes and penalties and picked up a lot of knocks in the Sweden game.

Speaker 28 You know, like, if Leah's not back, which Esme Morgan said yesterday, she's hopeful, they're sort of hopeful and confident that she will be. I'm not sure how true that is.

Speaker 28 I don't think England are going to give anything away before that game on her fitness, to be honest. And

Speaker 28 yeah, I fear for the extra day that Italy have had as well to rest and recover.

Speaker 28 So whilst, you know, on paper, it should be a straightforward win for England. I'm just not confident of anything or anyone anymore.
I've forgotten all rules of football. and yeah, who knows?

Speaker 27 Well, the rules of football are that we get our predictions wrong. So you need to

Speaker 27 vote tactically when we get to our Italy will win predictions.

Speaker 1 Well, well done.

Speaker 27 Well, Tom Gary on the pod the other day thinks that they left so much out there in their quarterfinal, Italy, in the celebrations and everything, that that was their race run, that it felt like they were celebrating winning the final.

Speaker 27 At least they've had longer to adjust, but that could, you know, come into it. It's the best showing that they've had since 1997.

Speaker 27 But actually, the last time these two sides met, SOF was in February 2024. So 18 months ago, it was a friendly, and England won it 5-1.
But it feels like very, very different times.

Speaker 27 How different are both these teams to then?

Speaker 1 I mean, I think they are very different in terms of both have gone on journeys.

Speaker 1 I think Italy's journey since the 2023 World Cup has been quite remarkable in terms of the way that they've rebuilt and regenerated a side that was arguably looking like it was going a bit backwards after the positivity of like 2019 and

Speaker 1 that. So I think it's

Speaker 1 Andreas Johnson's done really well coming in. He's really instilled a style of playing that they really like it really works with the kind of players that he has.

Speaker 1 And for England, I mean, my thing with England is that I am always very well aware that out of tournaments, they are an up and down team. And they always, always have been.

Speaker 1 like they they've never really performed consistently bar serena viefam's 33 game unbeaten streak which is i mean should be unheard of these days but is is generally unheard of england have been always been up and down through i've been into some like pre-tournament friendlies that have been truly dire and then they go and reach the semi-finals and this is england's sixth you know semi-final on the trot so i do think both teams well i think it's not a new experience for england so that will help them and so they will build on that friendly performance I think, and know how they broke Italy down and use that as an experience in the further experience of being in a semi-final.

Speaker 1 For Italy, it's totally new, and you do sometimes wonder whether the emotion of an occasion will get the better of them.

Speaker 1 But there's no doubting they're two very different sides from that moment in February 2024.

Speaker 27 Italy have impressed at times in this tournament, though, Tim. Where do you see their biggest threats and their weaknesses?

Speaker 29 Their biggest threat, I think they were really good at exposing Norway outwide.

Speaker 29 wide they really saw that that was a weakness in norway that does make me worry from an england perspective particularly cantore uh if she plays on the right for italy i think if anyone watching england at the moment you'd have to say defensively they look a lot weaker down their left side as well so cantore i think um very very kind of direct player i expect her to attack that space a lot the other thing i think italy might do as well because they can be quite a direct team i don't think anyone's challenged england in the air yet without millie Bright because it's not Leo Williamson's biggest strength.

Speaker 29 It's certainly not Jess Carter's biggest strength. I don't think anyone's really put that to the test yet and really put England under pressure aerially.

Speaker 29 So I do wonder if Italy will play Piamonte who played for Everton up front as just that big kind of target player, really kind of put herself about

Speaker 29 and particularly with Cantori on the right hand side putting crosses in. That's kind of how Italy scored both their goals against Norway as well.

Speaker 29 So I'd be wary of those wide areas, and I'd be interested to see if Italy really just try and challenge England there by being quite direct.

Speaker 27 Well, it did feel as if Sweden were trying to have the height advantage in that quarter-final, and that's why we saw Esme Morgan come on because, you know, it did make a difference having a little bit more height in the back line.

Speaker 27 But it's going to be really fascinating, Susie, to see what Serena Wiegman does because she's stuck with the same starting 11 for the last three matches, and they were very poor for 60 minutes against Sweden before they mounted that comeback.

Speaker 27 A lot of focus has been on Jess Carter, obviously exposed down the left-hand side in the France match in the opening game, switched into centre-back.

Speaker 27 We know what a brilliant player she is, but the pace perhaps against some of the younger players just isn't quite there.

Speaker 27 Do you see Serena Wiegman making any changes tactically, either to personnel or

Speaker 27 to both, swapping players out or just changing formation again?

Speaker 28 I think she should, but I don't think she will because once she's picked a starting eleven, she very much sticks to it through a tournament, sort of regardless of what's going on.

Speaker 28 I thought that Jess Carter would be dropped for the Sweden game. I thought she'd be dropped for the Netherlands game and she wasn't.

Speaker 28 And they've shifted her across the back line pretty much entirely through the tournament bar right back to try and make sure it works.

Speaker 28 You know, in the middle of the Sweden game, her and Leah switched so that Leah could start pinging some of the diagonals out to to Lucy Bronze on the right which Jess Carter just doesn't like that's not really her skill set

Speaker 28 so yeah personally I would but I don't think she will but I think we might see some enforced changes maybe if Leah's not back then that's a huge huge huge huge problem LJ was limping at the end you know could we see her perhaps drop down to the bench and maybe like Chloe Kelly start or someone like that or Beth Mead and then and then she maybe comes on in the game.

Speaker 28 I think if there are going to be any changes, it will be purely

Speaker 28 from a fitness and availability point of view over like any sort of tactical changes because she sticks. A back free would make sense as well, you know, to help deal with that threat.
Like, yeah,

Speaker 27 when they switched, it worked. And yes, she does need to twist, I feel, sometimes, um, Serena, but you know, she knows the team

Speaker 27 better than anybody.

Speaker 28 And then again, I was like clamouring clamouring for changes to come earlier in that sweden game going what the hell are they doing why have they wait like usually should they make changes at 60 minutes they made the first changes at 70 minutes but england were playing terribly like but what do i know they're going to win that match so you know like

Speaker 27 and listen all all the plaudits for the resilience that they showed i mean it would be a fantastic final of germany england just in terms of resilience and backs against the wall kind of tournament however would we be having this conversation And of course, this is football.

Speaker 27 This is, you know, it's happened.

Speaker 27 So I'm making this up. But

Speaker 27 if Sweden hadn't been so terrible at penalties, we'd be having a very, very different conversation, wouldn't we?

Speaker 27 Because I think all of us agree that England didn't necessarily deserve to to go through. I mean, obviously they did deserve to go through because they went through.

Speaker 27 But on the performance, it wasn't very good.

Speaker 28 Sweden bottled it about fifty times in one game.

Speaker 27 Exactly. I mean, it it's like no no no we don't want it.
You have it. No go on you go.
It was just like nobody wanted it

Speaker 27 it felt. But ultimately England got it and that is the mark of champions and why you know they're looking to go

Speaker 27 and defend their title and get to the final yet again. By the way I was about to mention that I thought Kiera Walsh potentially she looked like she was getting treatment towards the end as well.

Speaker 27 Of course Alex Greenwood had that nasty fall.

Speaker 27 We saw her then step up to take her penalty. Did that affect her? The strapping that Lucy Bronze had.
I mean, they are the walking wounded, it feels.

Speaker 27 We used the word bruising encounter on multiple occasions when we did the pod a couple of days ago.

Speaker 27 But I want to ask you about Cristiana Giarelli, Soph, because I know you're a massive fan of hers and I can see the smile on your face the minute I say her name.

Speaker 27 The Italian captain's going to make her 123rd appearance on Tuesday. I mean, she just is a leader, isn't she?

Speaker 1 Yeah, she is. She epitomises this Italian team.
And this is why I maybe disagree a little bit with Tim, because I don't think they're benching Christianity really for this game.

Speaker 1 I think there would be war on Andrea Sonson's hands if that happened. She is going to be playing that semi-final and you could just see it in her face after the court final, the emotion that it meant.

Speaker 1 She provides a real intelligence, I think, to this team that, while they have individual players, maybe isn't cohesive throughout the setup,

Speaker 1 where they have weaknesses.

Speaker 1 But I think the fact that a lot of them played together, I think the fact that, you know, Barbara Bonaz here and her have been on this journey together for 12 years, they've literally lived in each other's pockets in the national team and now Juventus.

Speaker 1 And the same with Sofia Cantore. I know she's just moved to America, but she's been at Juventus.

Speaker 1 Those relationships are built up at club level and they then replicate themselves on the national stage. And I think that's why they are being successful at the moment.

Speaker 1 Jarelli has an instinctive eye for goal. Her movement is so clever.

Speaker 1 The way that she just lost, I know Guru Wrighten isn't a natural left back, but the way that she just lost for that winner that just deft little movement away from her um just shows exactly what a kind of striker she is and then she can go with the spectacular as well as we saw against Portugal so she's got it all I think she will be very um

Speaker 1 up for this you know she's had a long career with this national team she's 35 it isn't given that she's going to make another

Speaker 1 like major tournament at this stage so if this is going to be her final hurrah as it were I mean she's already achieved so much by getting to the semi-finals but I I think she will be absolutely pumped up to get them one step further and go to a final.

Speaker 1 But I think you know, I am such a big fan of hers.

Speaker 1 I think she's such a natural striker and while on Tuesday I won't be her biggest fan, that's for sure, I think we can all appreciate what she's done for the sport and what she's done for Italian sport as well because, you know, we're in a press box in the game in Geneva for the quarter final.

Speaker 1 There's barely any Italian press there bar the ball crosses.

Speaker 1 There's so much to do in Italy and what this team have achieved on this stage at this point hopefully is going to start that change because they are so far behind in terms of the support and infrastructure of the nation behind them.

Speaker 1 So I think it's going to be a real, really impactful moment.

Speaker 27 I'm wondering what the fan base will be like actually, bearing in mind, you know, we're in Switzerland and the crowd inside the Stad de Genève is going to be heavily Italian, you would hope, Tim.

Speaker 27 Could that potentially play a part?

Speaker 29 Yeah, it could very well, particularly if Italy do kind of bunker in a little bit, like we saw Switzerland do. I'm not sure they'll go to that extent.

Speaker 29 They probably will have like a little bit of home advantage there. And obviously, this is just such a massive game for them as well.
And on the point of Jarelli and Bonansea as well,

Speaker 29 I kind of don't want to say feel sorry for them, but Italy just haven't been cohesive for so many years and now they are. And they feel like they're more than the sum of their parts.

Speaker 29 But perhaps at a point where Jarelli and Bonansea are kind of exiting their prime years, I almost feel sorry that this didn't happen sooner when they were kind of much more towards their prime.

Speaker 29 But they can definitely give England problems. We know that.

Speaker 29 But again, with England, I just think the amount of depth they have on the bench and even being able to bring on someone like Michelle Azumang, you know,

Speaker 29 and

Speaker 29 that's part of what makes England's mentality, I think. I don't think it's just mentality.
It's being able to bring on massive players with 20 minutes to go.

Speaker 27 Yeah, it's going to be a fascinating game Tuesday night for that one. And Germany-Spain is going to follow in Zurich the following day as the two top FIFA-ranked European teams come face to face.

Speaker 27 Spain will probably have been licking their lips watching Germany's quarterfinal go to extra time, Susie. They're going to feel it's there for the taking for them.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 28 Both Italy and Spain will be very, very delighted that the other teams

Speaker 28 played a day later than them and

Speaker 28 played 120 minutes plus penalties. I mean,

Speaker 28 in theory, foregone conclusion, but who knows? I'm fully expecting a Germany red card of some kind of escalating nature as well. Like, we've had handball, we've had a hair pull.

Speaker 28 I think it's got to be a leg break or a punch in the face, um, is like the next step.

Speaker 1 I hope not.

Speaker 28 And then anything is possible. But I think Germany have a lot to take from that

Speaker 28 quarter-final against France in this respect: in that, you know, they, when they were down to 10 players, you know, and basically had to relinquish a lot of control of the ball and you know, play on the counter, that's the type of game you need to play against Spain.

Speaker 28 So you need a perfect defensive performance, but you know, you can score against them and catch them on the break.

Speaker 28 So I think there's lessons to be taken from that France game that actually could really aid them in their task against Spain. So, you know, I'm not,

Speaker 28 I mean, you know, obviously they've got suspensions and things and injuries, but I'm just I'm not betting against them anymore at any point.

Speaker 27 Well, Christian Vuch's got some massive decisions to make. I mean, his squad is absolutely decimated.
So, Katrin Hendrik and Schuken Nushkin unavailable through suspension.

Speaker 27 Sarai Linda, his left back turn, right back, was forced off in the first half. Her replacement, Sophia Kleinhern, pulled up at the end of the match.

Speaker 27 What does he do against a team like Spain, who tend to control the ball and the tempo? So,

Speaker 27 is it all about playing on the counter?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it would have been great practice what they did against France, because it isn't in Brooks' nature to set up a team like that.

Speaker 1 And the fact that they did and managed to kind of rely on that kind of defensive solidity for so long will serve him well. I do want to go on a little rant here.

Speaker 1 I don't understand how I understand it's a short tournament, but I don't understand how getting an accumulation of yellow cards gets you the same suspension as getting a red card.

Speaker 1 It just boggles my mind. You know, I I really, really feel for Nuskin.

Speaker 1 She, you know, she had a really, really brilliant game apart from the penalty miss and that yellow card and she put everything into it. She scored the equaliser.
She was everywhere.

Speaker 1 She was running her socks off. And then that yellow card destroys her appearance in the semi-final and could be her last appearance in the tournament.

Speaker 1 And then you have someone like either Cardotto Bamza or, you know, Hendrik who gets straight red cards and they get the same punishment because it's just a one-game suspension.

Speaker 1 It just boggles my mind. So I just thought I'd mention that.

Speaker 27 No, I think that is a justified rant.

Speaker 1 But Christian Burke, he has problems on his hands, that's for sure. You know, with the injuries, Bamzer is back.
So that's a positive, I guess, at right back.

Speaker 1 You have a bit more cover. And I thought Francisca Kett really performed admirably.
She's 20 years old. She had like seven Bundesliga appearances this season.

Speaker 1 So she's really inexperienced, a phenomenal talent, but pretty inexperienced. And she came in against France and performed admirably, especially when the game plan changed so quickly.

Speaker 1 You know, she started as a wing back and then she had to push forward. So she had to adapt in that game a little bit.
So I think it or um

Speaker 1 yeah i think she will come she will probably stay at the left back if linda linda is not foot uh fit i think linda's foot had more taping on it than i've ever seen in my entire life watching football um so that didn't look particularly positive but i think um that game against france will give her the world of confidence if she is to come in against spain and start again but yeah

Speaker 1 he has definitely got a depth problem i think um he's going to have to rely on some of his older players you know dahlman only came on for the for the penalty shootout de Britz came on for the penalty shootout, missed a penalty, which is slightly awkward.

Speaker 1 But they're two experienced players that he can call in if they need, if he really needs to kind of cover that lack of depth at the moment.

Speaker 28 I need to express some pure anger as well at the lack of 26-player squads for this tournament. Like they increased it from 23 to 26 for the men's.

Speaker 28 Like, look at England's game against Sweden the other night. Like

Speaker 28 17 players were involved in that. Like, when we look at the state of Germany's squad at the moment, their lack of right-back cover now, like all of those various issues, like why? Why is it different?

Speaker 28 Like, it makes the tournament worse. It makes watching it worse because you're not getting the level of quality you would necessarily want on the pitch in each game.

Speaker 28 You're impacting player welfare because players are having to play when they're not necessarily 100%. And we know why, right?

Speaker 28 We know it's most likely about the cost of maybe the extra accommodation and the extra travel for players and the,

Speaker 28 you know, all those various things, the extra money that goes to clubs afterwards for their players having competed in the tournament.

Speaker 28 Like, the budget for the women's Euros is smaller, but I'm not being funny, put player welfare first. Like, they increased it to 26 for the men for a reason, and they've not done it for the women.

Speaker 27 So, this is a very, very rare occurrence for me. I will slightly defend UEFA only in terms of there are more teams in the men's game, they have a last 16, they play another game.

Speaker 1 Listen, I agree, I agree with you but for balance i think it's important to say that it might not just all be down to cost that might be part of it um additionally so i would agree with susie i think it's a financial decision about trying to host a tournament and keep the budget budget as tight as they possibly can and what you for have asked of these players you know over the last years you know this is the last of a back-to-back major tournament of five years since the pandemic or something.

Speaker 1 These players are non-stop. You know, they they had the Olympics last year, the World Cup the year before, the Euros the year before that.

Speaker 1 It's been an absolute bonker's schedule for a group of players who, by and large, have just turned professional or full-time in the last six, seven years.

Speaker 1 And their bodies are still starting to come back up to being full-time and, you know, living that kind of elite professional life.

Speaker 1 And you're asking, you've suddenly put all of this, you know, game time and pressure on top of it. So I think there are big questions to be asked of UEFA around player welfare, for sure.

Speaker 1 And certainly they could easily ease it by just adding three more players to a playing squad. It's really not that hard.

Speaker 27 Yeah, well, balance is important. And, you know, we don't know for a fact that that is their decision making.

Speaker 27 Just as an aside, by the way, we didn't even mention the fact when we were going through the Germany France game that Schuker Nushkin not only missed a penalty, she then stepped up to take a penalty in the shootout and scored it.

Speaker 27 I mean, that is impressive behaviour. And there's going to be, you know, lots of areas this game could be won and lost, Tim.
What do you think we need to be looking out for in this game?

Speaker 29 I think Germany have got the tools to hurt Spain, actually.

Speaker 29 I think, you know, Susie and Soph have both said that probably the France game was good practice for them and they are going to have to bunker in and they're not going to have to kind of bomb their fullbacks on.

Speaker 29 But I just think that kind of Hoffman-Brandt bull front three, particularly with how high Spain have their defensive line, I really can see in my mind's eye a kind of clarable ball through ball for Ulebrandt to run onto.

Speaker 29 And I do think Spain leaves those gaps.

Speaker 29 We perhaps didn't see it against Switzerland, but we did see them vulnerable in the group stage to counter-attacks because of how much they kind of they pincer you and push forward. So

Speaker 29 I wouldn't say I fancy Germany. I do fancy Spain to win this, but I think Germany will make it really hard for them.

Speaker 29 And unlike Switzerland, they're going to have that threat going in the other direction. So I think this will be quite a tight game, actually.

Speaker 27 Yeah, I agree with you completely. So Spain are looking for their first European trophy, whereas Germany are obviously season winners of the tournament.
They've won eight European Championship titles.

Speaker 27 First time as well for Spain, similar to Italy, Susie, that they've reached the semi-finals since 1997. Is that going to come into things at all?

Speaker 28 No, like for me, I think too much has been made of this. You know, it's been said a lot.
Oh, it's their first semi-final since 97.

Speaker 28 You know, oh, it's a a really hard task for them blah blah blah it's such a different team and the development of women's football in Spain and the women's national team has been rapid and so it's not like they're they're new kids on the block but they are very very very good news kids on the block to a certain extent like you know if if they were the team they are now

Speaker 28 like

Speaker 28 Last time out, they were unlucky not to get past England.

Speaker 1 The time before that,

Speaker 28 they weren't a big international team. Like that's the reality.
So, it's not like it's been a, you know, they've just been really rubbish for years. They've not been at that level.

Speaker 28 Like, they've just not, like, developmentally have not been at that level. So, I don't think it's going to be a big factor.

Speaker 28 You know, the world champions, because they've like, you know, everything is coming together for them. The talent pool has reached that point of development.

Speaker 28 The quality of players that Barcelona, in particular, are producing, is delivering for the national team.

Speaker 28 Like, so it's been said a lot, and you know, oh, it's the one they're missing, but they've not really been been in it until fairly recently. So, I think that the

Speaker 28 that it's not like a it's not like a millstone round their neck in the same way it could be for, say, a France, who have you know, sort of perennially underachieved.

Speaker 28 Spain haven't, they've achieved relative to you know where they were sort of at until they suddenly exploded onto the scene.

Speaker 28 So, yeah, I don't, I don't think it will be hugely detrimental to them at all.

Speaker 28 It's just one of those weird quirks of sort of like the uneven development of women's football and yes Spain uh it's you know same in same in terms of like say the Women's Champions League in Barcelona like they're relatively new kids on the bok but um they're very very very good now and that's the difference

Speaker 27 um okay so it comes to predictions who is nailing their colours to the mast who are the two finalists Tim

Speaker 29 I'm gonna say Spain versus England, which is, to be fair, what I and I think a lot of people probably thought at the outset of the tournament.

Speaker 29 I think they'll both be relatively close semi-finals. I don't think there are any guarantees, but I'll say Spain-England final, definitely.

Speaker 1 Soph, Spain, England.

Speaker 27 Susie?

Speaker 28 How tactical they'd be. Okay, Italy, Germany.

Speaker 27 Italy, Germany.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay.

Speaker 27 Do you want it to be England, Spain?

Speaker 28 No, I want it to be England, Germany, but it might probably be England, Spain. But I actually do think Italy could cause an upset.
I really do. Like, England are tired.
And I agree with Tim.

Speaker 28 I think the squad depth is significant for England and will probably make the difference in that game. But England have been really lucky.

Speaker 28 And I think that luck could run out at some point before the final, which would be this next game.

Speaker 27 Fascinating. Fascinating.
Right, the Women's Africa Cup of Nations is also into the semi-final stage.

Speaker 27 Hosts Morocco booked their place with a comfortable 3-1 victory over Mali in Rabat with striker Iptasam Giradi scoring twice, meaning they reached their second consecutive WAFCON semi-final and will face Ghana who knocked out Algeria on penalties.

Speaker 27 The game itself finished goalless after extra time but Cynthia Conlon was the hero for the Black Queens saving two penalties.

Speaker 27 And defending champion South Africa survived a scare against Senegal who had booked their place in the quarter-finals as one of the two best third-place teams.

Speaker 27 They took the Banyana-Banyana all the way to penalties after another goalless draw after extra time, but they won the shootout 4-1 and will face 11-time champions Nigeria, who had a more comfortable 5-0 demolition of Zambia.

Speaker 27 Both those semi-finals take place on Tuesday. So Nigeria against South Africa and Morocco against Ghana.
Some domestic news to wrap up for you as well.

Speaker 27 Newly promoted WSL side London City Lionesses have signed goalkeeper. Sophia Poor on a permanent transfer from Aston Villa.

Speaker 27 The 19-year-old spent the second half of last season, you you remember, on loan, helping them to promotion.

Speaker 27 Liverpool have completed the signing of Scotland midfielder Sam Kerr on a reported two-year deal. She made 14 appearances for the Reds last season on loan from Bayern Munich.

Speaker 27 And WSL2's side, Newcastle United, have signed Aoife Manion on a permanent deal. The Republic of Ireland defender was a free agent after leaving Manchester United in June.
Right.

Speaker 27 Hopefully, you lot have got a little bit of extra rest as we head into the semi-finals, two days before Italy and England kick off. Sophia, look after yourself, please.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I will do.
I'm going to go and just chill out.

Speaker 27 Good idea. Tim Stillman, enjoy your Sunday.

Speaker 29 My pleasure as always. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 27 Susie, find a different something to eat rather than cheese. What else can you have?

Speaker 28 Pretzels. I've eaten a lot of pretzels.

Speaker 27 Excellent. Okay, pretzel chats on Wednesday.
Fingers crossed for the lionesses.

Speaker 27 We'll be back on Wednesday to review that semi-final against Italy. Keep having your say.
Send in your questions via social media or email us at women's football weekly at theguardian.com.

Speaker 27 And as ever, a reminder to sign up for our bi-weekly women's football newsletter. All you need to do is search Moving the Goalposts.
Sign up.

Speaker 27 The Guardian Women's Football Weekly is produced by Sophie Downey and Silas Gray. Music composition was by Laura Iredale.
Our executive producer is Sal Ahmat.

Speaker 27 This is The Guardian.

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