Scotland in dreamland – Football Weekly

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Speaker 3 This is The Guardian.

Speaker 4 Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. He's done him, he's done him.

Speaker 4 Kenny McLean from the halfway line hit the proclaimers, Hamden goes wild, and Scotland are going to the World Cup for the first time in 28 years. This game sometimes takes you to another place.

Speaker 4 Kieran Tinney had already done the important bit a brilliant curling effort the scots still had four minutes to hold on and frankly the way they played there was no guarantee of them managing that but it doesn't matter the titan army will be there led by andy robertson and if the final moments didn't move you his post-match interview talking about diogo jotta will and we haven't even mentioned scott mctomonay's overhead kick elsewhere whales score seven brackets seven to give them a favourable playoff draw panama and curacao qualify we might have a minute for efl but we probably won't before writer singer broadcaster felix white of the maccabees tail enders amongst other things will come on to talk about his new book, Whatever Will Be, Will Be Its Brilliance.

Speaker 4 We'll answer your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 4 On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Speaker 5 Hi, Max.

Speaker 4 From Not the Top 20 Pod, Ali Maxwell. Hello.

Speaker 6 Hello.

Speaker 4 Sanny Ridgevadal, welcome.

Speaker 3 Hello.

Speaker 4 And I'm excited about this. Bastard Jim, Jim Burke.
Morning, my friends.

Speaker 7 It's all vibes today, Max.

Speaker 3 It's all vibes.

Speaker 3 Oh yeah,

Speaker 7 the Minor Analysis is just vibes.

Speaker 4 Oh, I mean, let me read a couple of messages we've got.

Speaker 4 David says, I genuinely cannot tell you, Max, I was nine when David Seaman saved Gary McAllister's penalty, 11 when Morocco thrashed us in Cincetienne, and then spent my entire teenage years and adult life dealing with failure, glorious failures and ignominious failures, decades of last-minute winners for the other team, playing well but losing, goal difference snatching victory from us, of watching world cups with jealousy of listening to barney ronay wondering if winning the world cup is even a good thing i'm 40 next year and on this night it all seemed worth it a beautiful joyous ridiculous mad brilliant game of football that a nation will never forget incredible goals what a campaign what a game so incredibly un-scottish god football what a game and scott says max i've never ever messaged but i have to i'm 32 i was five when Scotland last made it to a World Cup and that was the biggest relief of my life.

Speaker 4 I've watched this since the early 2000s. I was there at Hamden in 07 when Italy robbed us.
I can't stop crying. Every time I say we're going to the World Cup, I burst into tears again.

Speaker 4 Work tomorrow may be tough, but this is the best night of following Scotland. We're going to the fucking World Cup.
So, Scotland 4, Denmark 2.

Speaker 4 Where do we start, Jim? How are you?

Speaker 3 How are you?

Speaker 7 Well, mate, just to echo that first one:

Speaker 7 the last time you were in the World Cup for me was two marriages, two countries, and three cities ago.

Speaker 3 There's the bug pegs right there.

Speaker 7 Me, it's I never thought it was going to happen ever. And the thing is, the way we did the campaign, it was really quite a short campaign, you know, the way the fixtures were.

Speaker 7 We started well against Denmark and Belarus, and then we just kept getting worse,

Speaker 7 you know, because when we beat Greece 3-1, it was like a real robbery because we got outplayed for an hour.

Speaker 7 So, you know, I think I said to you earlier, there's a reason you don't ever hear the expression luck of the Scottish, right?

Speaker 7 We don't get that stuff. But last night,

Speaker 3 my

Speaker 7 God. The only thing is, I have to say, any great followers in Blue Sky,

Speaker 7 my account did get hacked.

Speaker 7 Somebody may have criticised Steve Clark.

Speaker 7 Someday, the person whoever hacked it did say Kenny fucking McLean at one point, right?

Speaker 7 And that was before the goal.

Speaker 7 Honestly, I was absolutely buzzing. Really, I ended up staying up to about one o'clock.
I was so

Speaker 7 I was just buzzing, absolutely buzzing.

Speaker 4 There's this, there's, that's this thing, you're right, when, when a game makes you so breathless, you can't sleep.

Speaker 4 But obviously, it was the daytime for me, and I was just consuming this content like the the bbc scotland tv commentary which is steve thompson with james mcfadden and mcfadden's like he's done him he's done him like when kenny mclean's shot uh the radio comms is alastair lamont and michael stewart is absolutely amazing it's just amazing and there is something barry about that kenny mclean strike there is a view from behind the goal where all his teammates are slowly realizing that they are definitely going to the world cup it is an amazing moment

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think it was Stephen Thompson who spotted Schmeichel off his line and shouted, shoot, shoot, he's done him, he's done him.

Speaker 5 And at this point, people watching the screen didn't realize just where Caspar Schmeichel was.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 MacLean, who I was less than complimentary about when he came on to replace Ben Ganondoke on the group chat as well, I apologise, Kenny. I think, I mean, I loved that game and

Speaker 5 I'm delighted for Scotland. And of the many highlights last night, I think one of my favorite was John McGinn's post-match interviews

Speaker 5 where he said that Kenny McLean takes a lot of criticism. Some of it isn't deserved.

Speaker 5 I just had a big laugh at that.

Speaker 5 Whether it was an intentional dig or a bit of fun or just he didn't quite realise what he was saying, I don't know.

Speaker 3 But what a goal that was.

Speaker 5 I mean, three of those goals last night, with apologies to Lauren Shanklin. They've got to be in the top four Scottish goals of all time.

Speaker 5 I suppose Archie Gemmel's... probably still number one, is he? But

Speaker 5 the other, the three that weren't Shanklin's were just brilliant goals. And

Speaker 5 I thought Scotland were going to blow it again even after Denmark had a man sent off and I was not in any way comfortable for them until Kenny McLean scored that brilliant brilliant goal I mean if he does nothing else again in his career and there's a very good chance he will do nothing else again in his career he will always have that just watch it on a loop for the rest of his life show the grandkids etc and so on fantastic i mean i was almost as chough last night for Scotland as I was when Troy Parrott scored that lately winner on Sunday.

Speaker 5 I was just delighted for them.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I was weeping in a cafe in Melbourne, just like when it went, I couldn't believe, I couldn't believe Tierneys went in.

Speaker 4 And then I couldn't believe there's a, when, when Kenny McClain hit that ball, Ali, there's this, I mean, of all the videos, there's, I think Copper90 tweeted out, that's where I saw it.

Speaker 4 And David Squires was texting me going, he was yelling at Kenny McClain to play Chay Adams in, which is the right pass.

Speaker 4 But there's one in this pub, this packed pub somewhere in Scotland, there's this one bloke going, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 suddenly it just erupts.

Speaker 4 It's just like, oh, it's just the timing is priceless.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, that's probably because Kenny McLean attempted to dribble past a defender, which I can't remember seeing him do in at least 10 years of playing championship football for Norwich.

Speaker 6 I certainly haven't seen him do anything like that.

Speaker 6 I mean, when I thought of top Scotland goals goals in my own memory as Baz was talking there, I thought James McFadden might get his second mention of the pod so far for that amazing goal in France.

Speaker 6 And I suppose I think back to 1998, which I think everyone has their favourite World Cup, don't they?

Speaker 6 And inevitably, it's either the first one that you remember when you fell in love with football, and 1998 was that for me.

Speaker 6 I had the VHS of all the goals from all the games, and the very first game was Brazil, Scotland. And

Speaker 6 so, you know, also with the surname Maxwell, there's a there's a lot of Scottish in my extended family and ancestry. So

Speaker 6 just echoing what everyone else has said, kind of couldn't quite believe the quality of the goals as it happened and just want to say that Kieran Tierney sent Scotland to the World Cup.

Speaker 6 I think it's worth saying that amidst all of this, it was Tierney's goal and what an unbelievable connection to get the curl on it, one of the reverse angles just shows how nicely it bent into the corner.

Speaker 6 Kieran Tierney's shot was the most important of all, really, and I'm really, really delighted for him.

Speaker 4 Yeah, because he's had a really tough time, hasn't he, recently?

Speaker 4 Oh yeah, a friend of mine, Fraser, he texted me.

Speaker 4 We watched Scotland's last game on our gap year, you'll be pleased to know, Barcelona.

Speaker 4 Very on brand, you know, on the east coast of Australia. And he was like, I can't believe it's been this long.
I've had to wait this long to see Scotland.

Speaker 4 He was one of those English guys who, when he talks to his parents, he goes totally Scottish. You know, that, you know,

Speaker 4 another moment, Sandy, we've got to talk about Andy Roberts. And afterwards, talking about Diogo Jott, he said, I've been in bits today.
I had my mate Diogo Jotta in my head all day.

Speaker 4 We spoke so much about the World Cup. We always discussed what it'd be like going to a World Cup.
I know he'll be somewhere smiling over me tonight. I couldn't get him out of my head today.

Speaker 4 I'm just so glad it's ended this way.

Speaker 9 And like, if you weren't weeping at just you know the delight of the celebration, that really was such such a moment i thought yeah that that was wonderful and in fact in fact all the players who came and had post-match interviews on the touchline were were excellent as well but yeah really touching moment i mean andy robertson in in the game i mean the thing that really stood out for me as far as playing was when he had loads of space he had about 10 yards of space on the left flank and it was 2-2 and just like hooked a ball out for a goal kick and you're just like what on earth are you doing out of all the players who've got their great delivery you that was just absolutely awful um and yeah i don't think he had a particularly great game but then you know especially as a you know i've got no scottish blood in in my ancestry as far as i know but um i suppose you inevitably think wider and then think about how he must be going getting on in in general and then all the liberal players as well and that's something we've touched on the pod before but yeah it it kind of gave an extra bit of context and the fact yeah he was in bits and he said he was he was keeping it from his teammates there as well like he's not only having to deal with you know,

Speaker 9 I think he was saying about how he dreamt about going to the World Cup with Diogo. Debo talks about it, right? He's kept all that from his teammates.
You know, he's one of the senior pros.

Speaker 3 He's had to bottle all that up.

Speaker 9 And you could see, yeah, he was so emotional. You could see him kind of welling up.
And yeah, fair play to him for being so honest.

Speaker 9 And in that moment, kind of having the presence of mind to articulate that. And I'm sure that would have resonated.

Speaker 9 you know, not just with Liverpool fans or with other of his teammates, but anyone kind of struggling with grief and how it kind of takes up a part of you, even when you're in your highest moments, lowest moments, it's always there.

Speaker 9 And I think what he said really will resonate with a lot of people. And fair play to him.
Yeah, thoroughly deserving of going through to the World Cup. Brilliant.

Speaker 4 And look, we're 12 minutes in,

Speaker 4 Jim, and we haven't mentioned a Scotsman scoring an overhead kick.

Speaker 3 Like an a brilliant one at that.

Speaker 7 The thing is, you were saying, Barry, about the Artsy Gamble goal. I've got issues with that goal because it was effectively a constellation goal in the overall scheme of things.

Speaker 7 And I was petrified that McTominay's goal was going to not mean anything because I think to be a truly great goal, it's got to mean something.

Speaker 7 So that was another aspect, but I didn't realize there was arguably going to be two better goals than that scored after it.

Speaker 7 But just one other thing that we've not touched on yet: John McGinn, he bought that red card, didn't he?

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 3 Wow.

Speaker 7 Have you banished this morning, right?

Speaker 7 Oh my God.

Speaker 7 I mean, at first it looked a stone wall, and then you looked at it again, you're like,

Speaker 7 wow.

Speaker 7 Wow,

Speaker 7 we absolutely got away. We won then.
But again, that was, for me, that was going to play into the narrative. Even when we get a fortunate red card,

Speaker 7 we still can't go over the line. And I just can't believe so many of these narratives went out the window, still buzzing.
No apology for it. Absolutely buzzing.

Speaker 4 And actually, Ali, that's true, isn't it?

Speaker 3 Because Denmark actually sort of got better with 10 men.

Speaker 4 And then even when Scotland scored, you were like, okay, Shanghai scored. This is done.
And then for Denmark to equalize again, you're like, you can't believe that.

Speaker 4 You're sitting there going, How have they balls this up? And like, objectively, Scotland were lousy.

Speaker 4 There was a moment when I know they score early, so then they're going to sit back, but it was like Denmark had 17 shots and Scotland won.

Speaker 4 They didn't really do anything apart from just score some brilliant goals.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Well, look, football is at its best when there is as much jeopardy on it as possible.

Speaker 6 And in order to get to these situations, you do need the qualifying campaigns, you need the international breaks that lead up to it.

Speaker 6 And, you know, obviously doing the England pod, I am pro-international football, pro-international breaks, where some others aren't.

Speaker 6 But I think if you're a real casual, general international break hater and you watch this and the Ireland game and anything else that comes and you don't appreciate that you need the build-up and you need the football to be played in order to enjoy these moments, which are better than anything league football can provide.

Speaker 6 I really believe that.

Speaker 6 Cup finals, European cup finals, you can rank those wherever you want, but when it comes to the international stage and these moments, and then you have the major tournaments on top, which of course can ramp up even higher.

Speaker 6 So I think that there's also a specific way that football looks, even at a very, very high level, when both teams have so much riding on it. And the nerves are so visible and tangible.

Speaker 6 And, you know, team shape and tactical systems broadly go out the window. And that's my favorite kind of football, and that's kind of what we saw here.

Speaker 6 And I think even, you know, the poor lad, was it Huhlmann whose sliced clearance set up

Speaker 3 the shot from Tierney?

Speaker 6 Clearly, to say that was a horror mistake would be wrong.

Speaker 6 Tierney still had to score from 25 yards, but I guarantee you, he and probably a lot of Danish people have been watching that on loop thinking, mate, you're a central midfielder.

Speaker 6 Why could you not just volley that ball away? And that kind of sums it all up, I think.

Speaker 4 No, you're absolutely right. I was really watching that, and I think he might have been the guy that gave it away to McLean as well.

Speaker 4 And you think, oh, poor bloke, because he's definitely kicked the ball better than that in his life than he did.

Speaker 3 I think that was just

Speaker 3 the scoffed

Speaker 5 clearance of a very tired man.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 5 But yeah, he'll not be feeling good about that today.

Speaker 11 So, Barry, what does this say about Steve Clark?

Speaker 4 You know, even in the WhatsApp group, there was so much stick for Steve playing, a classic Steve Clark, you know, park the bus. This is always going to happen.

Speaker 4 And yet, he's the first manager to take Scotland to a World Cup since 98.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and Steve's.

Speaker 4 And the first to take three tournaments as well.

Speaker 5 Third major tournament under him.

Speaker 5 It was remarkable to see how happy he was after the game.

Speaker 3 He's a...

Speaker 5 you know, in a nation of dour old men.

Speaker 3 He is the dour old man,

Speaker 5 dour old man other dour old men doff their caps to.

Speaker 5 And he was beside himself with delight. More or less told BBC Radio that he'd be going on the piss for the next three days.
And why not three months?

Speaker 5 Because I've got nothing to do for the next three months.

Speaker 5 He strikes me as a fellow who likes a pint. but um or a dram

Speaker 11 i i'm

Speaker 5 at some point it will be interesting to see, and it's far too early to mention this, I probably shouldn't even mention it, but I can see envisage a scenario where Scotland go to the World Cup playing unbelievably defensively in their group games and come home having lost all three of them or however many it is.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 5 he certainly

Speaker 5 I presume there's a case for him being Scotland's most successful ever manager, if he isn't outright their most successful ever manager and to get them to a World Cup after so long is a tremendous achievement even if at one point last night I was just shouting at the telly but he did make a very good call when

Speaker 5 that Danish player got sent off he immediately brought on two strikers and I went oh thank god

Speaker 9 he's done something proactive I just thought I'd go on the leading Danish tabloid newspaper BT just to see if John McGinn's got the the treatment Peter Crouch got in Trinidad and Tobago like he's a pariah over there

Speaker 9 but thankfully I can tell you that John McGinn has survived any criticism and it's all been aimed at Brian Reimer who's been described as confused and the defeat to Scotland embarrassing and Christian Erickson not pleased as well he was left on the bench and not used at all and has pointed you know asked Brian about why he was left there so McGinn you've got away with it then the Danish press are all they've all seen turned on Rehmer so it could have been Steve Clark and instead it's Reimer who's getting the abuse there from the Danish media.

Speaker 9 So there's one. There's a turn up for the books.

Speaker 4 Jim, I want to go back to just the greatest bits, the Tierney and the Maclean goal.

Speaker 4 You don't have to pick one, but I just want to know the feeling when Tierney's running up to strike that ball and it goes there.

Speaker 4 Because you said to me, if my neighbours didn't know I was Scottish, they do now. I like that.

Speaker 7 Well, the thing is, right,

Speaker 7 I changed my broadband right so I'm in Sky, so you get a little delay. It comes through streaming.
So I started off the game with no notifications.

Speaker 7 It went to 1-0 straight on with my live score, right?

Speaker 7 Because

Speaker 7 I just, my heart was going whatever. For some reason, I didn't get the notification ahead of time of the tierney goal.
Right. So I'm just sitting there watching it.

Speaker 7 I'm thinking, well, nothing's going to happen here.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 7 I got double bubble, if you like.

Speaker 7 And I just straight out the chair and I scream. And as I say,

Speaker 7 I think about five or six streets away, they would have heard me. You know, it was just amazing.

Speaker 7 And because it's gearing as well, being a Celtic fan, obviously, get an extra little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 7 But really, I didn't need any more. It was so.
And then the Kenny McLean goal, sweet baby Jesus of the orphans.

Speaker 3 I just

Speaker 7 got the notification for that.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 7 And I thought, well, that's.

Speaker 4 It's not from there.

Speaker 3 Exactly. I've got to think, well, it's got to go out there.
It's got to go. And then.

Speaker 7 And of course, Smichel, just that. I love that bit when a keeper gets lobbed.
Because he almost, it's like the Simpsons thing. If you free frame it, you can see the bit where his heart actually drags.

Speaker 7 You can see your face where he realises, shit,

Speaker 7 I am not getting this.

Speaker 7 And that's just another one of those little...

Speaker 7 There were just so

Speaker 7 many beautiful, beautiful, beautiful moments. And we don't, as Scotland fans, that's not something we often get to see.
And

Speaker 7 I enjoyed, well, in hindsight, I enjoyed every single minute of it.

Speaker 6 Imagine telling Jim from 1998 that there'd be a dystopian future where he could find out that Scotland had scored one minute before they'd actually scored.

Speaker 4 It's a very good point.

Speaker 4 Barry, you mentioned

Speaker 4 the other day on your voice note about

Speaker 4 how Ireland will be good for the World Cup. And, you know, it's always a a cliche about how good the Taiwan army are.
I mean, I remember being at Urunite 6, being at England, Scotland,

Speaker 4 standing next to them and sort of being in awe of how they had no inhibition, they could sing status quo at halftime where all the sort of po-faced England fans stood around not knowing what to do.

Speaker 4 But there is no doubt they will be a positive force, the Taiwan army, at this

Speaker 5 absolutely. And whatever cities are lucky enough to have them will love them because they're just an incredibly lovable, raucous, vibrant, likable bunch.

Speaker 4 Good for the proclaimers as well. I mean, I think, I don't know if they wrote Letter for America for this specifically, but you know, they'll do well out of that.

Speaker 4 I can't help think, does anyone else think, and maybe this is a controversial thing to think, but actually, Freed from Desire is brilliant. Like, like, it is, it is,

Speaker 11 well, but

Speaker 4 I mean, I remember it from like post-A-level's holiday to Turkey going, I don't think this is going to stand the test of time.

Speaker 4 But when the Ireland fans were doing it and when the Scotland fans were doing it and just the way it,

Speaker 4 obviously there are lots of good, you know, yesterday Kaboogie was great. That was, obviously it's brilliant.
But, I mean, I'm happy to be shouted down. I think it works, Ali.

Speaker 6 Well, yeah, I was in France in Euro 2016, and my mate is a Northern Irishman, and we went to two or three of their games together. So, I mean,

Speaker 6 those are some of the best moments I've ever had watching football and celebrating with football fans with the old Will Grigg. So yeah, at that stage, very unironically, I think it was magnificent.

Speaker 6 I've probably done a whole range of emotions towards that song at this point, summer of 2021, following England at the Euros. That was played after some of the big wins.

Speaker 6 And yeah, I think it's massively overdone. And I don't like it when a song is sort of squeezed every inch out of it as it is.
And I'd like to see something else come in to replace it.

Speaker 6 But I have had a number of moments of being 10 points deep when your team has just won a very significant football match and that comes on and you don't stand there and go, I wish they played something else.

Speaker 6 You just absolutely go for it.

Speaker 4 It trumps sweet Caroline for me. I mean, that's, you know,

Speaker 4 if we're fighting between, you know, what the DJ is going to play. Is there anyone else, Jim, before we let you go to just have a lie down that deserves a mention? I mean,

Speaker 4 like all the players do, of course, but is there anything that sticks in your mind?

Speaker 7 Other than, I think, Gilmour,

Speaker 7 you know, we weren't really, there's nobody really was out through injury. So that, that's our squad.
And I think you did say it, Barry, and you're right.

Speaker 7 I'm not going to the World Cup with any kind of confidence that we're going to do anything. But do you know what? It doesn't matter.
It means we're there.

Speaker 7 As I said earlier,

Speaker 7 my wife's daughter, she's 21 next December. The plan was to go to New York for her birthday.
I suggested tentatively last night that why don't we make the American trip in the summer?

Speaker 7 I got a look that suggested that's not happening. But the hook or the crook, I'm at least going to get to what I'm going to do my damnest to get to one of the games because at 62, let's be honest,

Speaker 7 the chances of me being around the next time we get to the World Cup are pretty bloody slim.

Speaker 3 Make sure you get full support, Jim.

Speaker 4 You don't want to be another wife on when the tournament starts.

Speaker 5 I'm looking forward to Jim's struggles with and getting to grips with dynamic pricing feats this time.

Speaker 4 Also, just

Speaker 4 well done, Jim.

Speaker 4 We'll let you have a lie down.

Speaker 9 Max, before you let Jim go, can we get an adjudication on the Travis Sinclair scale for the Metominae overhead kick?

Speaker 4 I had it about a seven, you know, because I think Barry made some good points in the WhatsApp group that it doesn't,

Speaker 4 you know, to fly into the top corner is the dream, but the connection is very good. You know, he does have to move himself acrobatically quickly.

Speaker 4 There are lots of positives with it, but you know, if it's not flying high into the net, it can never be above a seven, I would suggest.

Speaker 3 Fair, fair, yeah,

Speaker 4 okay. Uh, cheers, Jim.
Thanks for your time, mate.

Speaker 4 Cheers, guys.

Speaker 4 Barza Jim, Jim Burke, host of the RGC podcast, a Celtic podcast, which stands for Right Good.

Speaker 4 I'll let you fill in the rest, and we'll be back in just a second with an Ellis James voice note.

Speaker 4 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So, I don't know anyone else.
I switched off Wales at 4-1. I just sort of messaged Ellis saying, Look, can I have a voice note?

Speaker 4 And then I checked again, and it was 7, 7-1. And again, we all thought would be pretty tough.
Here is, before we get to the panel, here is Ellis James.

Speaker 12 Obviously, the headline score to Scotland, and very rare that

Speaker 12 a 7-1 win gets overshadowed by the exploits of another team.

Speaker 12 Congratulations to Scotland, obviously. I cannot stop watching Scotland Limbs videos.
People thinking they're going to film the final whistle and then filming

Speaker 12 gold from, you know,

Speaker 12 behind the halfway line. Anyway, Wales 7, North Macedonia 1.

Speaker 10 What a night, man.

Speaker 12 After Craig Bellamy's first game against Turkey, he said, Right, watch that, remember that, that's the worst we're going to play. That hasn't proven to be the case.

Speaker 12 And the thing with Bellamy, he's a very, very

Speaker 12 inspiring, engaging talker, the way he speaks about football. And if you run with it, and I have run with it, I find it quite motivating, right?

Speaker 12 But eventually, after some quite poor performances or after some,

Speaker 12 how shall I say, unorthodox selection decisions, you think to yourself, okay, what's really going on here?

Speaker 12 Everything he kind of promised. It all came true in one game.
Now, I was really worried about North Mastonia.

Speaker 12 I was in Liechtenstein on Saturday, and we were absolutely abject against, I think, literally the worst team in the world. And we have to weep after we ended up winning 1-0.

Speaker 12 And he played one holding mid against Belgium, and he plays two against Liechtenstein, who were a team made up of students. They both get booked.
So, without

Speaker 12 our first choice midfield against North Macedonia, who hadn't lost a game in the campaign, had only conceded three goals, taken points off Belgium.

Speaker 12 And you're like poor Josh Ian in midfield on his own, and you're worrying about when we played Armenia and Depend in qualification for Euro 2024.

Speaker 12 And we just got absolutely overran in midfield. I thought we're gonna, gonna, we're gonna get this could be bad.

Speaker 12 And he chooses, he goes for all-out attacks. We've got Dan James, Brendan Johnson, Harry Wilson, and David Brooks.
And we just purred from the first minute.

Speaker 12 I mean, Harry Wilson was exceptional, and Bale himself has said, you know, there is no other Gareth Bale.

Speaker 12 And so the responsibility for scoring goals is going to have to be spread across the team.

Speaker 12 He is the talisman, though, Wilson,

Speaker 12 when he's not fit, we really, really miss him. And for him to score a hat-trick, I mean, he was just fantastic.
But we haven't scored seven goals against anyone since before I was born.

Speaker 12 So that was against Malta in 1978. And,

Speaker 12 you know, it's the play-offs. We haven't qualified outright.
Play-offs are very, very difficult to negotiate.

Speaker 12 Obviously, we qualified for the last World Cup via the playoffs, beating Ukraine in the final, having beaten Austria in the semi. We failed to qualify for Euro 2024

Speaker 12 in the playoff route because we lost to Poland on penalties. So now it's being in pot two, which is what last night guaranteed as opposed to pot four, does make things easier.

Speaker 12 So we're either going to play Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, the Republic of Ireland in Cardiff, and that's huge for us because we do seem to find another gear when we're playing at the Cardiff City Stadium under the lights.

Speaker 12 I mean, the final is daunting. It could be Italy, it could be Denmark, Turkey, Ukraine, I mean, or one of the top four teams, Northern Ireland, North Macedonia, Romania, or Sweden.

Speaker 12 But then Ashley Williams, he said on the telly last night, he said, Who's going to fancy playing us after we've scored seven goals?

Speaker 12 Because I'm childish and nervous and superstitious. I read once that Donald Trump thinks that every human body has a sort of finite amount of heartbeats.

Speaker 12 And so that if you do exercise and you raise your heart rate, you're actually shortening your life because you're going to run out of heartbeats. I feel like that about Welsh goals.

Speaker 12 I feel like we've scored our goals now. We've had our seven and we're probably not going to score until 2028.
The one thing I would say is, I wish we could carry on.

Speaker 12 I wish we were playing next week and we could carry this momentum on

Speaker 12 because I've never seen anything like it. And I am on Cloud 9.

Speaker 4 Thank you, Ellis James. And I hadn't heard the finite heartbeats of Donald Trump, but I agree with you about using up your goals.
Never win 7-1 when you only need to win 2-1.

Speaker 4 But still, 7-1 all the same. And Ali, it was, I mean,

Speaker 4 Ellis has summed it up pretty well, but it was a great performance.

Speaker 6 They played unbelievably well, Wales. And

Speaker 6 this is really significant for them for a few reasons.

Speaker 6 But after what Ireland did the other night, which was clearly more dramatic, more memorable, and obviously what Scotland did last night, clearly more dramatic, more memorable, and secured them a spot of the World Cup rather than a slightly more beneficial draw in a play-off,

Speaker 6 Wales sort of end up, yeah, down the pecking order in terms of stories.

Speaker 6 But I think it is worth pointing out that this was their best performance by Miles under Craig Bellamy at a point where they really, really needed it against the North Macedonia side that had only conceded three goals in seven qualifying games, they scored seven against them.

Speaker 6 And a bit like with the Scotland goals, albeit in a different way, you're finding it hard to work out which is the best of the goals that that Wales scored because some of the passing and movement and speed in front of the ball, speed of passing into play, finishing was excellent.

Speaker 6 Brennan Johnson had his best game in a Wales shirt for a long time, has not necessarily been the superstar that that maybe fans would want him to be for them, but was brilliant and set up Brooks for the second goal, scored a rasper from 20 yards himself into the top corner for the third.

Speaker 6 The fourth goal was a beautiful team move that involved Johnson and Wilson and Dan James finishing it off.

Speaker 6 And then Harry Wilson who ends up with a hat-trick, two of them from the penalty spot and one of them a trademark Harry Wilson free kick.

Speaker 6 It's just a brilliant, brilliant night, I think.

Speaker 6 As you say, all Wales fans that I spoke to were expecting a KG affair because even the games against the minnows of the group, they've been like pulling teeth really.

Speaker 6 Bellamy made some pretty big calls here.

Speaker 6 Left out Sawber Thomas, who, albeit he's not as big a name as some of the attackers that started ahead of him, has been clearly Wales' best player under Bellamy in the last year or so.

Speaker 6 Kiefer Moore was injured for this one, and I worried that it was going to be one of those games where they were going to be against a deep block, slinging a lot of crosses in and without big Kiefer to head them in.

Speaker 6 But they didn't. They just took a different approach and sliced through North Macedonia.
So, yeah, big players stepping up when they needed to for Wales. And I think Bellamy as well justified with,

Speaker 6 he's been very clear that he's trying to raise the ceiling of the team and in his eyes that means playing in a different way in a much more attacking technical fluid attacking style which isn't necessarily what's defined the best Wales teams before and I think there's been some scepticism because frankly the results particularly in the last well in the last three months he hasn't had much to show for it he hasn't had much justification for what he's trying to do um and and he absolutely has that now so still work to do of course and it is a more favourable draw than it could have been but there's still some teams that they would probably prefer to avoid out of the four that they could be drawn against.

Speaker 6 I would put Albania at the top of the list for them to avoid, having seen them play England twice recently. They're a pretty strong team, and I think they can play Ireland as well, can't they?

Speaker 6 So that would be pretty lively.

Speaker 4 Italy, Denmark, Turkey, Ukraine will be at home to one of Romania, Sweden, North Macedonia, Northern Ireland, and then Poland, Wales, Czechoslovakia will be at home to Republic of Iran, Albania, Bosnia, or Kosovo.

Speaker 4 Austria went through automatically. They got a late equaliser at home to to Bosnia-Hersky event.
They haven't been to the World Cup since 1998.

Speaker 4 The glory days of Tony Polster. Was Polster still playing in 98?

Speaker 4 You know, still the only Austrian player that everyone knows apart from Marko Arnortovich. Northern Ireland beat Luxembourg 1-0.
First international goal for Spurs Jamie Donnelly.

Speaker 4 That was on Monday there in the playoffs, of course. Germany thrashed the Vaka 6-0.
Some of their goals were... absolutely brilliant by the way.
Netherlands put four past Lithuania.

Speaker 4 So that's sort of Europe done. We've got Paul Watson Watson on tomorrow to steer us through the big international headlines.

Speaker 4 But you did point out, Ali, you know, Curaçao will be the smallest ever side to qualify for a World Cup. They got a draw in Jamaica.

Speaker 4 And those scenes as well, if you've seen the full-time whistle, I just love watching just grown-ups get so invested in this thing. It's just amazing.
And it's a wonderful moment for them, isn't it?

Speaker 6 Yeah, absolutely incredible.

Speaker 6 Obviously, with the US and Mexico and Canada automatically qualifying as hosts, that kind of opened the door in the CONCACAF region and the expanded tournament, of course, as well.

Speaker 6 Just delighted for the Bakuna brothers who represent Curacao. And I've seen play a lot of football in the English football period, both of them based out in Turkey now, but

Speaker 6 they will be absolute heroes, glorified forever, as they should be.

Speaker 6 The previous smallest country to qualify for the tournament was Iceland, so Curacao now have that.

Speaker 6 And their manager, improbably, to me anyway, anyway, is Dick Advocat, who I did not realize was still managing at any level. And then Haiti as well.

Speaker 3 A drink managing a drink, isn't that?

Speaker 4 That is good, isn't it? A drink managing a drink to take them to the World Cup. That's really impressive.

Speaker 5 Well, as Barca Jim pointed out earlier,

Speaker 5 last night we had two drinks and a hat qualifying for the World Cup. Panama, Curacao, and Scotch.

Speaker 6 The sad news, if you like, is that he beat or they beat Steve McLaren's Jamaica, sending them into a playoff.

Speaker 6 It's fair to say the reaction in Jamaica has been pretty angry and Steve McLaren swiftly resigned. So we'll not be taking them into the playoffs nor to the World Cup if they get there.

Speaker 6 His quote was, leadership is a service. Tonight, I think the best thing I can do is stepping aside.
They will succeed in March. Thank you, Jamaica.
It's been an honour. One love to you all.

Speaker 6 That is a direct quote, as reported by Laurie Whitwell.

Speaker 6 And then lastly, the other big story, which i um i know you'll hear more about tomorrow but is um is yeah haiti who have qualified for the world cup it's not their first but they have qualified and they did so playing their home game as it was in curacao because they haven't played a home game in four years as the country is is under cartel rule um and they've got some amazing stories in that squad as well so uh yeah really what a few days it has been for uh international football and yeah could not have loved it anymore reno gattuso must be absolutely raging to see all these countries qualify after his tarade on Friday about the injustice of it all, everyone conspiring to keep Italy out

Speaker 8 by letting these riff-raff

Speaker 5 into the competition.

Speaker 4 Well, we will never complain about an international break again because it has been absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 4 As I said, Paul Watson on tomorrow to sort of flesh out those stories, and that'll do for part two. Felix White will join us in just a second.

Speaker 4 He's written a book called Whatever Whatever Will Be Will Be, and he'll tell us all about it in just a second.

Speaker 4 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's welcome Felix White of the Maccabees, Tail Enders, Books,

Speaker 4 amongst many other things. How are you, Felix? Very good.

Speaker 11 Very happy to be on Guardian Football Weekly, guys. I've been listening for years.

Speaker 11 I've been even accosting Barry and Pubs years ago in brixton so yeah i'm very flattered to be on the show thank you guys you're one of those what's barry like in real life people those

Speaker 11 as he told as he told the story has he told you that story have you told everyone that story i just saw him i was the other side of a bar in brixton and i saw a personality glowing from the other side of that said bar And then I was trying to work out what that charisma was.

Speaker 11 I was like, oh my god, it's Barry Glenn Denning.

Speaker 3 So I sort of shuffled over

Speaker 11 and

Speaker 11 I think we had two or three pints and we talked about Gaza

Speaker 11 and something else. We talked about, oh,

Speaker 11 Dean Winders. So you just done a Dean Windus documentary, Barry.
I think you've done this really good documentary.

Speaker 5 I would say documentary is pushing it a bit, but yes.

Speaker 3 Interview. Interview.

Speaker 5 But what happened was Felix asked me if I was Barry Glendening and we got chatting. And then just to be polite, I feigned interest in him.
And I said, oh, so what do you do?

Speaker 5 And he said, I'm a musician.

Speaker 3 And I went, oh, right. okay

Speaker 5 are you in a band or anything and he said yeah yeah I'm in a band and I said what would I have heard of this band and he went

Speaker 5 I'm in the Maccabees and I just sort of went oh right okay

Speaker 4 although to be fair Felix you know he did have a pint with Kylie Minogue and Michael Hutchins once and didn't know who they were either so you know

Speaker 3 so you're in pretty good company but

Speaker 4 talk about your book your book is called whatever will be will be

Speaker 4 it is, I think it's brilliant, Felix.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 4 Beautifully written. How would you describe it?

Speaker 3 What is it?

Speaker 11 Yeah, well, yeah, that's a good question, actually. It's something I didn't think about writing until last year when I was on tour, a little bit lost, felt like I needed somewhere to be.

Speaker 11 And I realised Penrith were playing down the road. And it turned out that it was the extra preliminary round of the FA Cup.

Speaker 11 And the thing that

Speaker 11 you might be aware of if you go and watch very lower league football or non-league football is sometimes when you're in the middle of nowhere, you cannot get Ubers or cars.

Speaker 11 So I couldn't get out of Penriff to the festival and I had an hour to do it to get to stage.

Speaker 11 And I ended up begging for a lift with the chairman of Penriff, Billy Williams, who got me in his car and got me to stage. And when I was in his car, I suddenly thought...

Speaker 11 This is the beginning of a road trip adventure and I'm at the very first round of the FA Cup.

Speaker 11 And it suddenly became sort of interesting to me that you could tell the entire story of English football in 15 rounds.

Speaker 11 It's something we saw, we all know it and we all do the trope quite often that the FA Cup, anyone can win it, blah, blah, blah. But actually

Speaker 11 there is something profound about the fact that the FA Cup starts somewhere like Penriff at Ends at Palace.

Speaker 11 So that ended up becoming the scope of the story and then finding trying to not almost not write about the football at all.

Speaker 11 There's the odd description of the odd goal, but it's more an articulation about the stories behind the places, what football means, why we love what we love, and trying to accurately describe what it's like going to watch football in all these places.

Speaker 4 I mean, there's so many moments in this book, there's a moment where you are, you know, you talk about football management games in a way that I feel totally seen.

Speaker 3 Really?

Speaker 4 You bond with this guy, Jake, over reading out the Wikipedia of a footballer and guessing who it is, and it's Linvoy Privus. And I'm like, oh my, this is literally sort of my existence on a page.

Speaker 3 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Oh my god, that's it. When I saw the list of clubs, I knew it was Linvoy Privus before it was revealed to be Linvoy Primus.

Speaker 11 But this is the thing, I think, with a certain type of person, as you well know, you don't need to know any...

Speaker 11 You could base an entire friendship for like 40 years on just saying things like Linvoy Primus. You might not even need to know that much about their life.

Speaker 11 So that became a realization with me and Jake that if we didn't have Linvoy Primus, I'm not sure we would have been such close friends.

Speaker 3 That sounds insane.

Speaker 11 But we used to, with the lights out in buses, we used to just name clubs and footballs. That's sort of become popularized since, hasn't it? Like again, there's even a podcast where you do that.

Speaker 11 But yeah, there's so many things like that. Football, play, play by mail, football manager.
Don't know if you guys remember.

Speaker 3 The play by mail is amazing.

Speaker 4 I have a vague recollection of play by mail, where literally you had people's phone numbers and you would just ring up.

Speaker 4 You were the manager of what part like this or did you ring up somebody, another human, and buy a footballer.

Speaker 3 Max, I was

Speaker 11 I was eight and I had access to the phone numbers of all these people across the country, assuming they managed Man United or Levski Sofia or whoever it is.

Speaker 11 And you could just randomly phone them up and have these very private conversations with grown men who tell me,

Speaker 11 in future, can you not refer to yourself as manager of Partic Fistle? Because my wife doesn't approve of the game. Say your work, colleague.

Speaker 11 So I have all these covert conversations with men of quadrant. And then again, that became a sort of articulation about how football does communicate something between a child and adult and reverse.

Speaker 11 And there was something quite sweet about that as well, which sort of it goes throughout the book.

Speaker 5 Felix, you didn't do the traditional thing of sticking with a winning team all the way to the final and following whoever beat them and so on and so on.

Speaker 5 You just picked a collection of random matches for each round. I thought you captured the essence of Dolich Hamlet beautifully, by the way.
I'm a reasonably regular visitor there.

Speaker 5 But was there a particular reason for that? Was it just a logistics thing?

Speaker 11 Yeah, no,

Speaker 11 I had the classic idea, Barry, that everyone does, but I'll follow the winner.

Speaker 11 But then when I did a few rounds and realised, oh, this is a book, and a publisher, I'll speak to a publisher, they were like, well, if you get Man City in the third round, then it's not going to be a very good book, is it?

Speaker 3 And I thought, oh.

Speaker 11 So

Speaker 11 at the risk, so it just became an exercise in picking, in like just finding the right stories in each round when you say Barry when you say I've got the essence of Dudge Hamlet do you do you mean that in because I was trying because I felt it's so easy with Dudge Hamlet to sort of write it off as a sort of fashionista thing and I tried to write that in a little bit but there was like almost because in that low league football there's like something

Speaker 11 amazing about football at that level where because the crowds aren't as big it's you're a bit more isolated to the actual experience of who's watching it and I think in lots of grounds at that space it become you realize, oh, it's a bit of a community center for people for like a place for people to go that don't have anywhere else to go, a sort of collection of people.

Speaker 11 I know Hamlet has become a bit sort of cooler than that, but it sort of has all the mergings of all that stuff together, doesn't it? Hamlet,

Speaker 5 yeah, I love it up there. It's like a 25-minute walk to Champion Hill for me.
Um,

Speaker 5 but it's it is quite a funny place because there's loads of um young couples with Tarquin is in tow in his

Speaker 3 exactly

Speaker 3 off-road buggy and

Speaker 6 there's the various sections but as you point out they have the big sign up everyone in our house is equal I think that's what it says but yeah it's it's a top place hi Felix I I've never been so sure that the almost every listener of Football Weekly will enjoy a book and specifically this one, having read it yesterday, hoovered it up no less on the train I think that I think the structure of it I was reflecting on why I was so desperate to whiz through it the the writing itself and the stories the the vulnerability is incredible

Speaker 6 but I think the structure of it really helps as well because I think a lot of people like me will be reading it kind of kind of knowing what happened to various teams involved in last year's FA Cup

Speaker 6 but but sort of can't quite remember and so you really want to get through it and get to the next chapter and get to the end of the current one.

Speaker 6 The way that you wrote about loving football as a child, the way that you wrote about loving football and what it means to you now as an adult is incredible and I know a lot of people listening will resonate with that.

Speaker 3 The championship manager stuff, as Max said, really could not have been more reflection of my Steve Clarence races clean.

Speaker 4 He rounds the keeper but somehow misses. You're like, what's going to happen?

Speaker 11 And it'd wait for 10 minutes, wouldn't it?

Speaker 6 Yeah, and but you know, but also, you know, my mum died when I was young and the way that you wrote about the specifics of childhood grief and its kind of long tail into adulthood, I think was just incredible.

Speaker 6 So it did kind of, yeah, knock the stuffing out of me, but in a good way.

Speaker 6 And to top it all off, written by a guy that my brother and I practically worship because the Maccabees have been our favourite band since 2007.

Speaker 4 Oh, man.

Speaker 6 Still are to this day, who we listen to every time we're in the car together, including over the weekend, whose farewell gig I went to, we went to, and the recent comeback as well at all points E.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, a lot,

Speaker 3 a lot of feelings. Nice to meet you.

Speaker 11 Nice to meet you too. I want to clip that all up and put it on the back of the paperback, actually, Ali, if that's all right.

Speaker 3 Everything you just said.

Speaker 11 That is so sweet. That's so lovely, man.
And yeah, especially just quickly about

Speaker 11 my mum though when I was young, that became a sort of exploration on why I support Fulham. And that was something that I really wasn't sure I was going to say in the book because I do genuinely have

Speaker 11 still quite a lot of shame and guilt that I supported Chelsea when I was about seven, eight, nine and I made a conscious decision having been told by football that the original sin, the only sin is that you cannot change clubs.

Speaker 11 Once you have a club you have a club but because my mum was from Palestine and my dad not really interested in football from the Isle of Wight, I hadn't been handed a football team but my mum and uncle were from Palestine and moved a lot around in the Middle East.

Speaker 11 And my uncle had decided because it

Speaker 11 realizing as we all sort of do, that football communicates more than most other things, this is who I am, this is where I belong, this is where I'm from. And he was desperate to be from a place.

Speaker 11 So he just decided, for no reason, like pinning a tail on a donkey type thing, that he supported wolves. Never been, he's from Palestine.

Speaker 11 And then my mum,

Speaker 11 because she

Speaker 11 had heard that her dad now lived in Bromley West, said that she supported West Brom because she thought they were the same

Speaker 3 thing.

Speaker 11 And like, even though, obviously, that's like really funny, it also spoke to their total displacement and not being from a place.

Speaker 11 So then it became interesting to me that when I was young, they hadn't handed me a club and my uncle took me to Chelsea and I felt like I sported Chelsea, but something didn't feel right.

Speaker 11 And I begged my dad to go somewhere. And when Fulham were in the bottom tier, he took me to Fulham just because I was begging him to go to a place.

Speaker 11 And he thought, oh, it's an inverted commas nice club and something about fulham football club and craven cottage when i went there

Speaker 11 i genuinely think the place spoke to me and it said this is a place that will hold your loss disappointment hurts this is a place that you can come and do your feeling and you will not be judged and it's going to be a sort of safe spot for you and then that has become really interesting to me decades later that my mum was seriously ill and she was about to die of having ms and i i would have moments moments when I would go to Fulham and I would be actually hoping that they'd lose.

Speaker 11 I wouldn't be telling anyone but I'd have this weird guilty thing that I would be like almost like an addict thinking God I hope we can see the last minute win a loser here sort of thing they score and then I'd realize after after time that Fulham was giving me a sort of very

Speaker 11 digestible version of the feeling that I was trying to process the feeling of loss that like funereal feeling or that kind of sense of everyone aligning with your insides.

Speaker 11 So it became, that became really interesting to me, but I chose Fulham because I needed it at that time.

Speaker 11 And I think more often than not, we get told that we get given clubs and lots of people do by families, but actually often people are choosing a club for a certain reason.

Speaker 11 And I think there's quite, there are subconscious reasons those clubs speak to you in different ways for things you're looking for as a child. And I genuinely think that's what Fulham gave me.

Speaker 5 Felix, you got in early to give your nephew, to lumber him with Fulham as well. Yes.
And there's a beautiful line in the book. So I think he must be eight now.

Speaker 5 But one of the games he went to last season was Fulham getting beaten by Palace in the quarterfinal of the Cup. And you gave your nephew Jet a Fulham jersey every year.
of his life.

Speaker 5 And you have a line in the book. You said, instead of giving Jet Fulham shirts, I should have just handed him a big box of sadness.

Speaker 3 Fantastic.

Speaker 11 Like a pre-packaged one. Just have it all now.

Speaker 11 Yeah, that was like...

Speaker 5 And then when they lost against Palace, that seemed to be young Jet's first real encounter with genuine

Speaker 5 crushing disappointment. And there'll be plenty more of that for him, I'm sure, in the years to come.

Speaker 11 Oh, yeah, there will be, yeah but that like when that happened he was really staring into the void and as you know because we got to beat 3-0 there was like about 10 minutes to really process the reality of what happened so just watching him watching him deal with for the first time the way football tells you something's going to happen in front of you that you are um going to feel very betrayed by but there's nothing you're going to be able to do to affect it you'll just have to sit there and watch it and how football does that again and again against you and the first time it happens to you as a child it's really like you're sort of looking around going like what is no one gonna I don't understand like no one's gonna change that for me type thing you can't believe that it's played out as it has but the thing with Jet was that became interesting to me is that because he doesn't have the reasons for choosing Fulham that I did and he's just been handed it he desperately wants Fulham to win so suddenly now I I find watching Fulham unbearable because I need Fulham to win for Jets Do you know what I mean like I need him to be happy so it made me feel a bit like oh this must be what it's like being a parent or almost witnessing your own wants.

Speaker 11 Because actually,

Speaker 11 that's what happens so often in relationships or whatever, especially people, you know, people that become islands a little bit, but don't necessarily commit to more domesticized situations or relationships because they say, oh, I don't want it.

Speaker 11 It's not,

Speaker 11 you know, there's X, Y, and Z is wrong with it. But actually, they probably want it so badly.

Speaker 11 So I started thinking about my want for Fulham to lose and thinking, actually, that was probably because it was unbearable to me to need them to win.

Speaker 11 If that's, I'm getting psychoanalytical now, but yeah, that's sort of all these trails the book takes.

Speaker 9 Felix, I haven't read the book yet, but just based on what you were saying there, did you, did you kind of let on what you were doing as you got through the rounds?

Speaker 9 Like, because you know, I do a lot of lower league and non-league stuff, and it's always a bit of a sell when I'm trying to, like, get something for Sky, for example, because you know, we're all Premier League, but then you go and you see so much heart and you see what a football club means and the belonging there, and then you get you get the red carpet, I get a little bit, you know, and you get to meet everyone really easily and stuff, and you meet all these crazy characters.

Speaker 9 Did you kind of go in completely blind and not tell anyone, or did you kind of go, hey guys, I'm gonna be here and I'm doing this?

Speaker 11 Do you know what? I had that experience this year when I went to Brackley because BBC had me at half-time to do something and that was amazing, like having the red carpet thing for that. But

Speaker 11 the whole purpose of the book was that I was trying to be almost synonymous. So I was trying to really just watch people and like tell what the experience was.

Speaker 11 So there's none of that like as the rounds went on it was tempting to be like, oh, so I'll see if I can get a press for X-Wise. But you want to sort of be in the mix and seeing it.

Speaker 11 So especially in those low, like a lot of those low league games, I'm almost...

Speaker 11 trying to like hide myself in a corner and just watch these sort of strange interactions that play out and people that don't know each other at the start of a game and then at 445 they've got this whole history of complex interactions between each other and or like dislike or liked whatever like the thing i always think about in penriff is there was this um in the second half of the game between penriff and pickering even though it's playing out the two dugouts just became obsessed um with who had possession of the spare ball so you'd have like so the assistant would be like holding the ball behind his back and then the other manager was sent his assistant to go and try and knock the ball out of that assistant's hand to get it back and they were having this sort of like scrabble for the ball.

Speaker 11 So, no, I didn't have the red carpet like you, Sanny. But maybe we can go to Lower League in the future.

Speaker 3 You can

Speaker 11 show me the smoked sand sandwiches.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I should say, by the way, that the red carpet in Lower League,

Speaker 9 there isn't even a carpet.

Speaker 11 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not red.

Speaker 9 The sponsor's lounge at best might be just the random porter cabin with a little like electric heater.

Speaker 4 Love it. I mean, you're also not a rock star, Sanny.
I hate to say it.

Speaker 3 That Sky Sports microphone, you know, great carpet, great responsibility. That's true.

Speaker 4 And actually, what is a, I mean, I don't know, like, you, if you feel lucky about this, but like for the FA Cup final to be what it was and to be Palace winning it.

Speaker 4 And you know, we started this pod with just talking about like half of us win tears.

Speaker 4 And I'm not even a Scotland, I'm not Scottish at all, but you know, I'm sitting in a cafe in Melbourne, like crying when Kenny McClain scored that. The same.

Speaker 4 I have watched, I've watched so many videos of that full-time whistle when Palace win.

Speaker 4 just to see what it means this whole generation this whole fan base who've never won anything before and just seeing the disbelief like I know them at the time and like when you write about it you're clearly just there going this is amazing I don't know if part of you're going go that is great for the book that city haven't you know man city haven't beat Liverpool too you know like yeah perfect for you right well yeah do you know what it was like it's so it's interesting because at the time I wasn't I was just so jealous

Speaker 11 but then when I reflected on it I was like oh that the book would have not been, like, it wouldn't have been a very good book if Man City had won it because the whole essence of the book is like searching for that magic.

Speaker 11 So if Palace hadn't have won that tournament, it would have been a very flat ending to the book.

Speaker 11 And like, honestly, that being inside with those Palace fans, that is the, it is the most supernatural thing I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 11 When I think back to it, you know, when you see old American videos of like gospel churches and people were just weeping or like wailing, shouting Jesus, and they're all in their own little private universes, but together like, you know, like all these exorcisms.

Speaker 11 Like when I think about it, it was like that, but in a very sort of southeast London way. People

Speaker 11 not knowing what, having a feeling that not only they had never had before in their lives, but their parents, their grandparents, et cetera, had never had before.

Speaker 11 And simultaneously not knowing what to do with it, but being completely overwhelmed

Speaker 11 with feeling. So yeah, that was that.
When I think about that, and it is a trope that gets used a lot, but it was, it did make you think, oh, football is religious.

Speaker 11 It genuinely was a religious experience where they were almost communicating with all the people that hadn't seen that.

Speaker 11 And especially because that Palestine was so good and they looked like, for some weird reason, I don't know because of the kits at the moment are sort of throwbacks in a way, but because of what they're wearing, they looked like the 1990 team to me.

Speaker 11 It looked like you were watching Ian Wright and Mark Bright a little bit. It's almost like, do you know what I mean? You could put a sketch over them and they looked, felt very similar.

Speaker 11 So there was all kinds of like synergies that that was, yes, yeah, beautiful day.

Speaker 4 I mean, I haven't forgiven that 1990 team for knocking Cambridge out of the quarterfinals unjustly. A Jeff Thomas miss hit.
Worse than his chip, worse than that chip that went, but it's okay.

Speaker 3 You know, was that on that run?

Speaker 11 Cambridge got a quarterfinals in that run. Because Cambridge were quite.

Speaker 3 Was that Deion Dublin? Cambridge.

Speaker 3 That Deion Dublin's Cambridge.

Speaker 4 Wow. It was.
Deion John Beck, Deion Dublin's Cambridge. You know, I've talked about that that enough, Felix.

Speaker 4 The listeners don't need this again.

Speaker 4 Hey, the book is called Whatever Will Be Will Be Wherever You Buy Your Books.

Speaker 4 But thank you so much, Felix.

Speaker 4 It's a great read, and I encourage everyone to go and buy it and read it. Thank you, Felix.

Speaker 11 Thank you. And just quickly to say, I love your show.
It's incredible. So I listen to it all the time without fail.
So yeah, nice one.

Speaker 4 Which one?

Speaker 3 Which one?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I normally did a preview. This is what you're listening right now.

Speaker 4 But you you can listen to all the other ones as well if you like, Felix. But that is great.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 4 It's nice to hear that. And that'll do for everyone as well.
So thank you, Felix. Thank you, Barry.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 4 Thank you, Ali.

Speaker 6 Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 Cheers, Sanny.

Speaker 9 Cheers. Thank you.

Speaker 4 Football Weekly is produced by Taya Papula. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.
We'll be back tomorrow.

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