Arsenal ensure north London is red after Forest fell Liverpool – Football Weekly

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Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. What a weekend for Arsenal.
First they sit back and watch Liverpool lose at home to Forest and Man City lose at Newcastle.

Speaker 1 And then in the most inevitable inevitable, Eberic Chiese, so close to signing for Spurs, goes and scores a hat-trick at the Emirates.

Speaker 1 The golf slash chasm slash something else big between Arsenal and Spurs was is enormous.

Speaker 1 It took a lovely pass to get it going, but after that, it really looked like a Premier League team swatting aside League One opposition in the Carabao Cup.

Speaker 1 And while the Liverpool crisis continues and Pep yells at a camera operator, Chelsea move up to second. Are they our best bet for title challenges?

Speaker 1 Morgan Rogers scores two for Villa to move them into the top four. Crystal Palace spoiled Rob Edwards' first game in the Wolves dugout.
Does Barry know which West Ham goalkeeper played a blinder?

Speaker 1 And it's incredibly wet in Brighton where Igor Tiago misses a late penalty. We'll do a bit on Ian Wright's comments on Jude Bellingham and on the World Cup draw.
Ireland could play Denmark again.

Speaker 1 How exciting.

Speaker 4 All that plus your questions.

Speaker 1 And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 1 On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Hello.
Hi, Max. Welcome, Jordan Jarrett Bryan.
Morning, mate. And from the Racing Post, Mark Langdon.
Hello. Hi, Max.
Let's start at the Emirates.

Speaker 1 We have Jordan, Arsenal, Mark Tottenham, me Tottenham, Barry Neutral.

Speaker 1 James says, was Ezek's phone call to Arteta before signing for Spurs the greatest phone call ever made in history? Did he call him or did Arteta call Eze? Either way, it was Jordan kind of inevitable.

Speaker 1 I mean, maybe he was never that close to signing for Spurs. He was always going to go to Arsenal.

Speaker 1 But the first hat-trick in a North London derby since Alan Sunderland in 1978, they've only been four, and this was probably his first real star performance for them.

Speaker 7 Well, it makes us Arsenal fans feel a lot better if we tell ourselves that he did have Tottenham on one line and Arsenal on the other line literally turned down Tottenham at the same time as agreeing to join us.

Speaker 7 And the Eze's song, which I'm sure Mark knows, about turning down Tottenham

Speaker 7 is a beautiful

Speaker 7 and at song. It was inevitable.
It did feel that way for sure. It's a brilliant hat-trick first of all, and it felt like his coming out moment of like, I'm an Arsenal player, finally.

Speaker 7 It felt like Declan Rice got the winner against United a couple of years ago late on. That felt like Declan Rice's, you're welcome to the club.

Speaker 7 And this definitely felt like Eberici Eberici Eze's moment of like, yeah, I finally arrived. Three really, really good goals.

Speaker 7 I'll let Mark dissect how bad Spurs were in a second. But from an Arsenal perspective,

Speaker 7 it was beautiful. And for him to be, I don't really think actually played amazingly well.
I think the three goals aside, I thought Eze was okay.

Speaker 7 I think he's played better in other games and not scored hat-tricks. But yeah,

Speaker 7 it was lovely that he got those goals, I think, for Arsenal to capitalize on the fact fact that

Speaker 7 our so-called rivals dropped points the day before and then to smash on your rivals in that way. It's made it a perfect weekend.

Speaker 1 And Barry, none of those goals are easy. Like, he takes them, his movement, his balance to create the space is just so clever.

Speaker 4 Yes, not easy, but very easy.

Speaker 4 He's so,

Speaker 4 he's so graceful. He's so nimble.
He's one of those footballers who looks... like he's playing at a different speed to everyone else

Speaker 4 as if things slow down for him while there's chaos around him. Now,

Speaker 4 I don't want to take anything away from his performance because it was superb, and he probably should have scored more than three goals. Interestingly, you say that.

Speaker 4 I was surprised when I heard how few hat-tricks have been scored in the North London Derby. And then I was thinking, surely Harry Kane must have scored one.

Speaker 4 Then I remembered who Harry Kane played for.

Speaker 4 But yeah, back to Eze,

Speaker 4 things seem to slow down around him. But he was afforded so much space in that little area around the edge of the box, just inside, just outside the front of the penalty area.

Speaker 4 The charity of Rodrigo Bentenker and Paulina,

Speaker 4 I don't know where they were. They just left this gaping hole for him to operate in.
He didn't smash any of those shots home. They were nice.
deft, precise touches and wonderful performance from him.

Speaker 4 Like you, I don't know how close he was to signing for Tottenham. I think they've more or less announced him, hadn't they, or they were about to, but

Speaker 4 Arsenal does look like where he belongs, although Crystal Palace fans may beg to differ.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, it is worth saying, Mark, that you know, had the situation been slightly different and he'd signed for Tottenham, I don't think that would have made the difference in that.

Speaker 4 No, no,

Speaker 3 he might have struggled with Vicario booting it sort of 20 20 meters above his head with every time he got the ball. Anyway, I mean, Arsenal in midfield just absolutely like dominated Tottenham.

Speaker 3 They've spent very well in that area, Zubamendi, Rice, because Rice can do what Paulinha can do in terms of winning the ball back, but then has got so much more about his game.

Speaker 3 Marino, who started off as that emergency centre-forward, I think he understands that role well now in terms of almost Havertz-esque, really in the way that he can drop off and link play.

Speaker 3 The two wide players caused Tottenham a lot of problems. You expect that from Saka, maybe not so much.

Speaker 3 Trossard, I mean, if I would have said sort of start of the season, like Trossard would not have been in my kind of best Arsenal 11 by a long way.

Speaker 3 And I think there were rumours that he could well have left the club in the summer. But, you know, his influence

Speaker 3 on the team in terms of scoring important goals and just being involved in big moments sort of seems to be there.

Speaker 3 And yeah, I mean, we might get on to Tottenham later if we have to, but Arsenal dominated and were well worthy of the margin of victory.

Speaker 7 Just before we go on to Spurs, because I'm going to enjoy that bit as well, I think Mark's right to flag Trossard.

Speaker 7 He's a player that I actually wasn't too upset hearing that he may be leaving in the summer. I think he's a moments player.

Speaker 7 I think he's a brilliant squad player, but I had doubts about whether he could be Arsenal's starting left winger in a team winning the Premier League. And he shut me up.

Speaker 7 I think he's been brilliant this season.

Speaker 7 I think Timba, I think if Timba can add quality crosses to his game, I think he could be in that conversation as one of the best right-backs in the world because defensively, you just can't beat him.

Speaker 7 He's so good. Marino was great as well.
Hinkapier came in. I don't think you even noticed him.
So Gabriel wasn't missed in any way at all.

Speaker 7 And I think it's actually a reflection on the quality of the league, if I'm to be honest, because some people say when there are other clubs that emerge in the top part of the table, that's the sign of a healthy league.

Speaker 7 I'm not so sure. I think the fact that Man City can't put a run together, the champions are 11th, if Spurs would have won yesterday, I think they could have gone third or fourth.

Speaker 7 So Tottenham are absolutely awful yesterday, but if they'd have won that game, they could have still been pretty high in the table.

Speaker 7 I'm not so sure that's a good thing for the league in terms of its overall quality.

Speaker 4 Arsenal fans won't care.

Speaker 7 They won the game. They may win the league.

Speaker 7 But I think that there's something about the fact that there's so many teams at the top that aren't particularly good that says something about the quality overall of this Premier League.

Speaker 1 I mean it's it's quite the if if Tommy was on this game.

Speaker 4 It's a big if it's it's a big if you asked if um Eze's phone call to Michael Arteta was the most important ever made and I've just been googling.

Speaker 4 President Nixon's phone call from the Oval Office to Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong in 1969 is widely credited with being the most important,

Speaker 4 followed by Alexander Graham Bell's first ever phone call to his assistant, Mr. Watson, come here.
I want to see you.

Speaker 4 So maybe it's top three.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Well, I mean, it could be, you know, Dave in Dagenham's call

Speaker 1 talk sport, you know, the Tottenham season tick holder. Dagenham's the wrong choice, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Scott says, as a Spurs fan, I'm pleased to see we're finally taking some of that home form into away games. It isn't just that they lost, Mark, and it isn't just that they lost heavily.

Speaker 1 But honestly, just, and I understand you know, Thomas Frank has looked at those squads and said, We're not as good as them, so we need to be tight and win second balls and set pieces, and blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 But just watching every time they get a free kick, just Vicario ushering everyone forward and going, I've seen Cambridge do this against Man United in the FA Cup, like that's sort of what I was watching.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, just in terms of sort of spicy phone calls, the one my dad sort of gave to me at half-time was

Speaker 3 kind of up there. Yeah, I mean, it was a cowardly way to try to play football.
And, you know, the players will have to take some flack, but I think that it does rest at the shoulders of the manager.

Speaker 3 You can't charge Barcelona ticket prices and then serve up Brentford football.

Speaker 3 He won't survive the season carrying on like that.

Speaker 3 It is on him to try to get the team to play in a more progressive manner. I mean, against PSG right at the start of the the season in the Super Cup, they played the same formation.

Speaker 3 It was a back five, and Kudos played closer to Richarlison. But there was intent when they actually got the ball to try to do something.
And that wasn't there in this match.

Speaker 3 Pick, what, seven defensive-minded players?

Speaker 3 You know, you look at that back five and you think, well, if you're going to play with a wing back, then Pedro Porro has to be one of those to try to sort of get the team up the pitch, the quality he's got with his crosses.

Speaker 3 And then, you you know ben tancore and paulinha as um a midfield two with five defenders i think is outrageous and there's no i mean it's no surprise that they can't progress the ball up the pitch when you're playing that defensively if you look at the fourth goal jed i think jed spence starts with a throwing in a pretty progressive position sort of halfway into the Arsenal half.

Speaker 3 It goes all the way back to Vicario, does one of those sort of silly little chips that he does with his left foot. Arsenal win the header and then it's about four on two or something like that.

Speaker 3 If you've got Romero and Van der Venn at the back, I think you have to trust them to be good enough. I mean, they are two very good defenders.

Speaker 3 Romero must be one of the best ball plan centre-backs in the Premier League. And to not try to use that, like I said at the top there, it's cowardly sort of way to play.
Like Thomas Frank,

Speaker 3 that performance at City was really exciting when they went there, were aggressive, played counter-attacking football. It's got progressively worse.

Speaker 3 And, you know, I would be less angry if I hadn't seen this sort of time and time again. But, I mean, they struggled like this against wolves at home.
And look how many points Wolves have got.

Speaker 3 So, was it any surprise that Arsenal away was pretty much the same story?

Speaker 4 We have in the past, and I think with some justification, although Arsenal fans disagree, or some do, that Michel Arteta approaches games, he's too cautious, too cowardly.

Speaker 4 But I was shocked by this from Thomas Frank because he clearly set out to not lose. But even though

Speaker 4 the first

Speaker 4 35 minutes were a bit of a non-event as a game, it never, ever looked like Spurs were not going to get beaten in this game. And

Speaker 4 yeah, it was

Speaker 4 just

Speaker 4 spineless. Yeah, I was...
shocked by the negative approach from Spurs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and look, we'd seen Sunderland take the game to Arsenal previously. I know like home and away is different.
It was their lowest XG since records began. 0.06.

Speaker 1 I'm sure that it was their lowest last time against Chelsea. I'm really interested.

Speaker 1 I don't know what you think, Jordan, that Mark said, you know, he won't survive the season, possibly, because you sort of think there is part of me that is like, it's only 12 games. He needs time.

Speaker 1 He's a notoriously slow starter. But like, we said in the preview pod, if he wins this game, that is so massive for him, right? But losing this game in this manner, the pressure is so on.

Speaker 1 They've got PSG away next.

Speaker 4 Looking forward to that one, Max. I bet.

Speaker 4 Like,

Speaker 1 the question is of how quick, how bad can it get? How quickly? Because Tottenham surely can't replace. I'm sort of surprised we're even having that conversation.

Speaker 7 Me too. But I'm hearing from some of my Spurs fans that they're not, you know, frank out.
But the conversation around, as Marcus said, how long he's got or how long he's got to turn this around

Speaker 7 is a conversation which is surprising to me.

Speaker 7 In our Guardian season preview i had spurs finishing third not because i rate spurs but because i rate him really highly and i thought that the the force of frank will outpower the the the spursiness of spurs but

Speaker 7 he's struggling he's struggling and i would be stunned if he didn't get the season i think if he can get some players back and he can he can um implement his way it might be a slow burn it might get worse before it gets better i would stick with him i think he's a brilliant manager given time and the right resources i think he can do a good job.

Speaker 7 But there is a conversation around whether that leap from your Brentfords, your Bournemouths, your Brightons to a topped club is that leap for most managers just to leap too far.

Speaker 7 I still have faith that he will turn it around, but it's not looking good.

Speaker 3 The underlying data, which Frank will be fully aware of given that he was at Brentford and he's referenced XG previously on expected goal difference, but Tottenham are bottom three with that.

Speaker 3 The only teams worse are West Ham and Burnley. So like this isn't like a one-off.
This has happened now for most of the season, I would say, nine or ten matches. And Nuno wasn't given that long and

Speaker 3 for the same kind of reasons. And while they're not new owners, it is like a new kind of leadership team right at the top of the club.

Speaker 3 And I don't think they will want to be associated with this type of football for too much longer.

Speaker 1 Sure, but what would you do, Mark? I mean,

Speaker 1 you're the season ticket holder here.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 I'd stick with Frank for now because I think

Speaker 3 you have to try something, don't you? Otherwise, you just end up jumping from manager to manager.

Speaker 3 But I would say if in the next sort of four to six weeks there aren't signs of improvement. And Solenki and Kulasevsky, when they return, will make a difference to that attack.

Speaker 3 But there's only so much you can do if the tactic is to just hoof the ball forward. And Richardson's goal was a delightful finish, but you know, it does

Speaker 3 come from like a tackle, which was about the best thing that Tottenham did all day.

Speaker 4 The one thing I'd say in Tottenham's favour is, and I'm clutching at straws here, I think, is the fact that they do have some really key players out injured.

Speaker 4 But I think the fact that those players were injured

Speaker 4 before the season started or very, very early in the season, I can't remember exactly when Madison did his news.

Speaker 1 Yeah, before preseason, wasn't it?

Speaker 4 Preseason.

Speaker 4 Is that it tends to be forgotten that they're injured. And,

Speaker 4 you know, they're huge losses, Kulasevsky and Madison and Solanke, not to a certain extent, I suppose. But people seem to have forgotten about them.

Speaker 4 So say, by comparison, last season when Arsenal had various players dropping like flies,

Speaker 4 we were constantly aware of these absences because we saw it happen. And

Speaker 4 I could be talking cobblers, but it crossed my mind.

Speaker 1 I think the interesting thing would be that these players are not used to playing these tactics. You know, these are sort of you know,

Speaker 1 kudos. And I suppose he plays West Ham, so maybe he is, but you know, like Javi Simmons, all these guys who are really good aren't used to playing that.

Speaker 1 And if they lose faith in the manager, because if you're not getting results, it's a bit like the conversation you've had about Jose and Conte before.

Speaker 1 That you just go, hang on, this is what we're doing. We're just waiting for Kevin Danso to jog up and hurl another one in the box.

Speaker 1 This isn't why, you know, I was the best player in my school/slash academy/slash country, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, we'll see.

Speaker 1 It does look like Arsenal in great position for the title. I mean, I think a lot of us had written Liverpool out of the title race before this game, but they lost 3-0 at home to Nottingham Forest.

Speaker 1 They've lost six games already this season. I have said it before, and it doesn't mean you can't analyse their games, but I...

Speaker 1 I'm just one voice, but I'm giving them a total pass for the whole season because of Diego Joshua's death.

Speaker 1 Other people are less sympathetic, but I think it is worth referencing every time we talk about them.

Speaker 1 But, Jordan, this was a brilliant win for Nottingham Forest, their biggest ever at Anfield. And for Sean Dice, you know, for a manager to come in and get a result like this is just enormous.

Speaker 4 And it should have been more.

Speaker 7 They had a legitimate goal, in my opinion, ruled out as well. It should have been worse.
I think Liverpool started the game really well.

Speaker 7 They had a period in the first like 30 minutes, I would say, where they looked, maybe less than that.

Speaker 7 They looked like they were, you know, back to back to themselves. They were moving the ball pretty well, I thought.
They were getting forward well. They looked okay.

Speaker 7 But it's just that thing of the minute you get a sucker punch at the other other end it kind of just deflates all confidence in what in what you've been trying to build towards and for that gave forest the confidence to be like actually we can we can win this they won there last year as well so they seem to uh in recent years like like playing at anfield but massive in for forest but i think from a liverpool perspective it's quite embarrassing and i think you framed the question correctly i think i actually had liverpool still in the title race i think arsenals win yesterday it liverpool are done now if they weren't done before they're they're definitely done now and their their battle now is to try and keep in the top four.

Speaker 7 And similarly, conversations around Frank's future at Spurs. I am starting to hear Liverpool fans talking about, actually, can Arnest Slott turn this around?

Speaker 7 And the idea that you've won a Premier League in your first year the previous season isn't seeming to hold much truck with Liverpool fans because they say the ones I'm speaking to, that was last year when Liverpool Football Club.

Speaker 7 You can't lose six out of 12 league games. That's half your game.
That just can't happen. And they're not seeing any signs that they believe he can turn it around.

Speaker 7 So that'll be a conversation I'm sure will develop in the next couple of couple of weeks if they continue to lose games. But from a Forest perspective, huge win.
They needed that.

Speaker 7 Diitzch needed that as well. And I think they'll kick on from here on in.

Speaker 1 I mean, how much grace Barry does winning in a Premier League give you? Surely it gives you a season, for goodness sake.

Speaker 4 I would think it should, but football fans and a lot of club owners are very, very impatient and intolerant of failure. I've no idea how the

Speaker 4 head guys at Fenway Sports Group are feeling about this. Probably not particularly happy.
I

Speaker 4 had written Liverpool's title, Chances Off, but I didn't see this coming out like a 3-0 hiding at home, which, as Jordan says, could have been worse.

Speaker 4 I did hear some Liverpool fans, just to touch on what you were saying about Diogo Jotta. I heard some Liverpool fans, I think

Speaker 4 can't remember, it was on TV anyway, but they were

Speaker 4 saying that they think Anfield should stop singing the Diogo Jotta song on the 20th minute, is it, of every home game, because they're starting to think it might be getting in the players' heads.

Speaker 4 This game, they were very dominant for the first 20 minutes, and then things went south for them. That could be a complete coincidence, but I just thought it was worth commenting on.

Speaker 4 But Virgil van Dyke spoke after the game about them losing battles, not winning second balls. There's too many senior players in that team just not performing.
Virgil being one of them.

Speaker 4 Ibrahima Canate, Mo Sala. The new signings haven't worked out yet, or most of them haven't.
So I don't, they won't win the title. It would take an absolute miracle for anyone to stop Arsenal, I think.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 what degree of failure is acceptable? I suppose is the question.

Speaker 1 Alexander Ruzek, the first Liverpool player in Premier League history to end on the losing side in each of his first four starts for the club. Six defeats in seven in the league for Arna Sotzman.

Speaker 4 I mean that is

Speaker 1 you forget they won their first five Mark. I mean it seems so long ago.
But what do you make of the Liverpool situation?

Speaker 3 I mean you mentioned Isak there. I mean he was terrible on Saturday.
Like doesn't feel like he fits into that team and I know that he missed pre-season

Speaker 3 but I mean we're coming up to nearly December now.

Speaker 3 Like the idea that he shouldn't be in rhythm. He just doesn't at the moment you know the early days but at the moment he just doesn't feel like he fits into that team really.

Speaker 3 I think the selection's a mess like if you think that they kind of end up with saboschlight right back graven burk at centre back like that sort of feels like a manager uh panicking um and and not quite knowing what he's doing or unsure of what he's trying to do all the signings really have been poor um you know wurtz didn't start i think kirkz has been very vulnerable um at left back and then salah is completely off his game there was one moment in the second half when like he went to cross the ball with the outside of his boot and he just went off the wrong part and just sort of flew in the opposite direction.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 he's been completely unsure of himself. That relationship with Trent Alexander Arnold was one of the reasons why Liverpool were so strong last season.
So

Speaker 3 I think his absence is being felt.

Speaker 3 Those that are questioning Slot, I think it's more about the case of like first season, was it mainly like Jürgen Klopp, what he was building towards, and he was kind of able to

Speaker 3 just add a bit, and now he's got to do it by himself. And yeah, it's not happening.
So, I think that's the reasons why. But on Forest, they were back to kind of being how they were under Nuno.

Speaker 3 Marillo, particularly at centre-back, was just outstanding. The whole game, the way he blocks everything.

Speaker 3 Yeah, really a defender.

Speaker 4 I enjoy watching.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Elliot Anderson as well made one brilliant block, didn't he?

Speaker 1 From McAllister. Just to date for your diary, then Tottenham, Liverpool, 20th of December, 5:30.
It'll be absolutely terrible. It'll be the worst

Speaker 1 anyone's ever seen. Look, you never know.
Liverpool could click, couldn't they, after Christmas? We shall see. That'll do for part one.
Part two will begin at St. James's Park.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 1 If you like cricket and you like podcasts and you have time in your hands because test matches aren't very long anymore, why not listen to the Guardian Ashes Weekly?

Speaker 1 Featuring an incredibly urbane and affable host. I I didn't write that.
I did write this. The latest episode with Jeff Lemon, Ali Martin, and Jim Wallace looks back at whatever that was in Perth.

Speaker 1 Search Guardian Ashes Weekly.

Speaker 4 I have to say, Max, I listened to your Ashes preview. I was out running and I had it on and

Speaker 4 I was... I try not to listen to podcasts that are going to make me laugh when I'm out running because it's not conducive.

Speaker 4 But I was chuckling away to myself at the positivity from the English contingent

Speaker 4 before a ball had been bowled or a coin tossed.

Speaker 1 Just for the record, Barry, you know, I do have a podcast which is intended to make you laugh, but I'm glad that the other one that isn't intended to make you laugh did make you laugh, but there we are.

Speaker 1 Let's go to St. James's Park.

Speaker 1 Newcastle 2, Manchester City 1. David says Manchester City are looking propitious, aren't they? I checked it.
It's the closest word to being the opposite of ominous.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, they lost to Newcastle just at the time when we thought this was the the time they were going to turn the screw.

Speaker 4 Well, didn't Pep say they were going to turn the screw? His big message on Friday was the season starts now. We've had our international breaks.
We were 11 games in.

Speaker 4 This is when the season starts. And

Speaker 4 well.

Speaker 1 Well, that camera operator took it in the ear, didn't he? I thought maybe he was saying, I said it started here. Or maybe he said, you are so, so, so, so good at your camera work.

Speaker 1 Anyway, it was a really good game, this mark. Lots of incredibly early sort of the misses got worse and worse, did they? Or maybe not? Because Harlan's miss was sort of bad for him.

Speaker 1 Barnes is amazing. And then Foden, you think, well, that's definitely going in the corner.
So you just thought no one will score in this game.

Speaker 3 Foden's, I think, was the worst of them.

Speaker 3 And if that goes in, maybe you have got a different game. I think you mentioned it there.
Just how, you know. just a really fun match to watch.

Speaker 3 Probably the game of the weekend, just in terms of the quality on show. Harvey Barnes' winning goal, I don't don't actually think there's been enough credit

Speaker 3 given to that one because it's not an easy skill, the way that he kind of

Speaker 1 flicks it in.

Speaker 4 I agree.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't be too harsh on Manchester City. Like, this is not going to be, I don't think, a city side that can go and win 12, 13 in a row.
I didn't think the performance was...

Speaker 3 was was that bad i think it you know suggests that they will i i think they'll be arsenal's closest challengers come the end of the season if foden scores or harlan scores them them chances then maybe you've got a different game.

Speaker 3 Like Newcastle away is a tough match. And you go back to August or September when Arsenal sort of won that game.
Feels like a sort of pivotal moment, maybe in Arsenal season.

Speaker 3 And yeah, I just think it's a really hard place to go. Newcastle, very aggressive in midfield and

Speaker 3 could have gone either way. And Newcastle won.
And I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 What a lovely review.

Speaker 1 I think also, Jordan, Mancidi should have had a penalty there. I mean, I don't like the AR.

Speaker 1 Then you sort of think, well, Fabian Scher has absolutely taken out Phil Foden.

Speaker 1 And I know there is something about if you kick the ball a long way, or if it's a shot or a perceived shot, that it's sort of less likely to be given than if he just takes a little touch.

Speaker 1 But it is a blatant, it's such an obvious foul. I just can't sort of, you're watching it going, how is that not, how are people not giving that the penalty?

Speaker 4 What's going on?

Speaker 7 It's a shocker. It's a shocker.
It's a blatant penalty. It's not even a debate.
It's a clear penalty. And you're right.
For For someone to see that and to not straight away be like, that's a penalty.

Speaker 7 It's not even debate. It's not like a contention one.
It's a clear penalty. For them to not get it is a shocker.

Speaker 7 I wonder if that was the reason why Pep Guardiola was so animated at the end of the match or if it was because he felt that the winning goal was offside. I couldn't quite work out why Guardiola was.

Speaker 1 I didn't felt, everyone seems to say he felt that Donaruma was fouled. for the second goal.
Okay. But I don't know.
I don't think he was.

Speaker 1 I thought Rob Green, as I mentioned today, sort of explained it quite well, going, I don't think he was.

Speaker 1 But I mean, Pep has, Pep is right to, if he was going to be angry, and I don't think it's the camera operator's fault, but if he, you know, like, that is a penalty, and that just changed that game, I guess.

Speaker 7 It is, and it probably does change the game as well. But I think there's a bigger issue with City that everyone was waxing lyrical about City after the Liverpool win.
City, you're back.

Speaker 7 Watch out, Arsenal, City, you're coming. And although it was a really good win in that Liverpool game, Liverpool could have had a couple of goals.

Speaker 7 I mean, they had a legitimate goal ruled out, I felt, and then a couple of other chances to score in that game.

Speaker 7 I don't think City, I'm just not having City. And what I mean by that is they'll win lots of games, but they're still very easy to create chances against.
They concede a lot of goals still.

Speaker 7 And, you know, it's been flagged before, but if Han doesn't score, they do seem to struggle to kind of get enough goals to kind of get maximum points from games. So

Speaker 7 as much as I think they were maybe unlucky, I agree with Mark. I thought City did

Speaker 7 play quite well in this match. I don't think they're as good as people were making them out to be.
And this defeat wasn't a massive surprise for me.

Speaker 7 Just quickly on Newcastle, I'm glad they won this game. One, because I'm an Arsenal fan, but also because

Speaker 7 there was talk starting around Eddie Howe and whether he had reached the ceiling with Newcastle. And I'm not quite sure he has yet.

Speaker 7 And I like him. So I'm really glad that he...

Speaker 7 he kind of dismissed those kind of naysayers about how well he could continue to do with Newcastle with a big win against against a team like Manchester City.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and Baz has mentioned it before, but you know, that's his first win against Pepper and I think

Speaker 1 19 attempts. I think the second time in two decades that Newcastle have beaten Man City.
So like lots of monkeys up, lots of backs there.

Speaker 1 Worth talking about Harvey Barnes for Scotland, Barry?

Speaker 4 Or not? Yeah, or not. Or not.
He don't have to. Doesn't sound like he wants to.

Speaker 4 I wasn't expecting that, if I'm honest. I'm aware that

Speaker 4 there is talk suggesting suggesting he could declare he's eligible for Scotland.

Speaker 4 He has an England cap, but it's from a friendly, so he could do a reverse rice and leave England and take up the saltyre.

Speaker 4 I didn't approve of Declan Rice doing it, so I probably shouldn't approve of Harvey Barnes doing it.

Speaker 4 But I think going from Ireland or Scotland to play for England is a completely different proposition from leaving England to go from play for Ireland or Scotland.

Speaker 4 If Scotland are willing to have him, yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It seems a bit you've just qualified.
Oh, now I'll come and help you out.

Speaker 4 You know, maybe if you'd been there from the start of the campaign.

Speaker 4 But yeah, it wouldn't sit right with me, I think. But assorted Scottish fans may emphatically disagree because he's a very good player.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I haven't checked his interviews sort of pre.

Speaker 1 them qualifying you know if like years ago he went i'm english and i'm you know he's got like the tattoo of stuart Pierce and Winston Churchill on his stomach.

Speaker 4 He doesn't spend his leisure time walking around Jesmond painting roundabouts.

Speaker 1 But when he was interviewed about it after Scotland qualified, he was just like, I haven't really thought about it.

Speaker 4 But, you know, it was a great win for the lads, you know? Like,

Speaker 4 fuck I do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Chelsea are second. They beat Burnley 2-0, six points behind Arsenal.
Are they our only hope?

Speaker 3 Obi-1.

Speaker 1 What do you think, Mark?

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 1 this looked like a game they were going to win. I think we've said a lot of time, quite difficult to analyse, but are they starting to take shape?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, the massive game, isn't there, on at the weekend?

Speaker 3 They beat Arsenal within three points. So you can't, you know, I don't think the title's done yet.
I sort of always disagree with those that kind of one week it's over and another week it's back on.

Speaker 3 Like we are, you know, there's still plenty of games to go. I think Chelsea probably tactically are one of the most flexible and interesting teams in in the league.
I think Mareska really thinks about

Speaker 3 what they do with and without the ball, probably in more detail or as much detail as anyone else in the Premier League. And they had a rough sort of first 15-20 minutes, didn't they, in this game?

Speaker 3 You wonder whether Burnley might catch them cold, but like there's so much width to the team with Neto and Gittens. They stretch teams, and then you know, it's long balls from Tosin over the top.

Speaker 3 And eventually, that proved dividends.

Speaker 3 Like, they did it without Kaisedo, and santos came in and played very well and they just have got i don't know if you heard this match they've got a lot of players and sort of the squad depth is is significant and that that that is going to going to sort of stand them in in good stead i think he maresca's coming up with like the makings of what his best team is um and one player would just shout out would be kucarrea who brings their team to life with the way that he's able to come into midfield and kind of do exactly what Maresca wants of him and you know he's influence on the Chelsea team from sort of nominally left back you know like you see it don't you in newspapers and websites he's like starting 11s now and like Kuguarea is like playing here on this left back position but he probably spends about five minutes of the entire 90 minutes playing in that position so I don't know if there's a there's a way that kind of us journalists need to um portray what sort of football line-ups are now because um oh no you can't you can't take away the could we have a moving gift could you have like a moving gift maybe a moving gift online to sort of show

Speaker 3 where they go as of the match.

Speaker 1 It depends who, right? If it's Paulina and Ben Tancur, it doesn't have to move at all, Michael.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 1 you can stay old school.

Speaker 4 I think the main talking point about Chelsea has to be Cole Palmer stubbing his toe. Oh, yes.

Speaker 4 And then the revelation from Enzo Maresca that he gets up in the middle of the night several times and to go to the toilet and constantly bangs his head, his legs, and everything.

Speaker 4 That really had me thinking.

Speaker 4 What is he doing? Does he live on a boat? It has to be that he either lives on a boat in very choppy waters. Obviously, he stays in a lot of hotels where maybe the rooms aren't

Speaker 4 as familiar to him as...

Speaker 1 He lives with the borrowers. That's his issue, isn't it? Is he living in a matchbox?

Speaker 7 Just quickly, I think Mark mentions the game on the weekend between the top two. Well, it could be the top two by the point of kickoff.

Speaker 7 I mean, I said I wasn't having city i'm definitely not having chelsea i think that they are getting better i think they're a good team but in terms of a genuine title challenger i know they're second the people will love this i don't take them seriously in that regard i think if arsenal can win that game without their best defender probably no strikers still away at chelsea i i think Arsenal can go to that Christmas period and Christmas program very, very confident or trying to start to pull away.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it sounds like if you're not having City or Chelsea, it sounds like you've given Arsenal, you know, you're not giving Arsenal the title, but you're not having anyone else.

Speaker 1 So, by default, there. Villa 1-2-1 at Leeds.

Speaker 1 Morgan Rogers, the first player, Villa player to score twice at Ellen Road in a Premier League game since Gareth Southgate in January 2000, the last time he took off the handbrake.

Speaker 1 I'm guessing you're right, so Gareth didn't score a free kick like that. He's a brilliant player, Morgan Rogers, isn't he, Barry?

Speaker 4 Yeah, he's fantastic. And that free kick, there were two goals in this game that I had to constantly rewind and watch again because I wasn't quite sure what had happened.

Speaker 4 The first one in this game, which was real goal of the season contender of that league's goal,

Speaker 4 somehow went in through a series of ricochets and

Speaker 4 woodwork and whatnot.

Speaker 4 And I think everyone seemed to be waiting for it to be disallowed for something or other, but it wasn't. And I don't think it should have been.

Speaker 4 But yeah, that was a real scruff bag of a goal. But the Rogers free kick was just

Speaker 4 superb because he didn't hit it at all hard. Joe Hart gave a very good breakdown of it on Match of the Day 2 last night.
And the technique just to leave the Leeds goalkeeper completely flat-footed.

Speaker 4 But the Leeds goalkeeper didn't really do anything wrong.

Speaker 4 He's just completely deceived by the manner in which Rogers

Speaker 4 stepped up to take this goal. I think...

Speaker 4 Villa have now, they won six out of their last seven in the Premier League, and they're winning these games with a striker who hasn't scored in any of those games, who's only scored one goal this season, Ollie Watkins.

Speaker 4 So very impressive from them and very impressive from Morgan Rodgers.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, leads were okay in this game, Mark, but you fear for them, you really do, I guess, if they don't win their games at Ellen Road.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think it's been like much of the season when it's been competitive. and just been moments really in both boxes that have let them down but if you look at like their next three matches

Speaker 3 Man City Chelsea and Liverpool and okay Liverpool not as strong as they were but that's not a pleasant sort of three fixtures from which you want to be starting to take any points so I think in terms of the fixture list they've had a comfortable enough start and the schedule does get sort of harder so

Speaker 3 I think they've played well but just haven't picked up enough points and like this was one of them games where they uh much like a sort of the Spurs game where they didn't deserve to lose necessarily but they did just due to the quality of Rodgers on this occasion.

Speaker 3 And Lee's just haven't got that in the final third. And, you know, it's looking quite dodgy for them, really.

Speaker 3 I hadn't considered them as being as sort of low down the table as what they are because they seem to be playing okay. And it's the other end with Villa.
I looked at the table last night.

Speaker 3 I couldn't believe they were full.

Speaker 3 The last time I looked, I thought they were about 17. So it's a crazy table at the moment.

Speaker 1 It is. Look, Morgan Rogers scored two.
Dude Bengham scored at the weekend as well to get a point for Real Madrid.

Speaker 1 You want to, obviously, you talk about those two because they are vying for the tension for England under Thomas Tuchel at the World Cup. Jordan, you wanted to talk about Dewe Bellingham.

Speaker 1 We haven't talked about it yet, actually. Ian Wright's comments that some people are not ready for, in his words, are not ready for a black superstar.

Speaker 1 This was after the kind of backlash after Bellingham kind of complained about being substituted. But I mean, we talked about it on that pod.

Speaker 1 He sort of just looked like a guy who was a bit frustrated, then walked off. Wrighty said, he goes out there, he performs, he does what he does.
It's too uppity for these people.

Speaker 1 They all love Mgolo Cante. He's a humble black man, gets on with what he's doing.

Speaker 1 But if you get a Paul Polbert or a Jude Bellingham and you get that kind of energy that does not sit well with people, someone like Jude frightens these people because of his capability and his inspiration he can give.

Speaker 1 If you're outspoken black and playing to that level and not caring, that frightens certain people. It's a tiring exercise to speak about.

Speaker 1 What did you make of what Wrighty said?

Speaker 7 I thought it was really appropriate that it came from, that education came from Ian Wright because Ian Wright was the Bellingham 20, 30 years ago. Coming from him, I just thought it was so great.

Speaker 7 Ian Wright is a massive part of the reason why I support Arsenal, right? Because Ian Wright, he looked like the black men that were in my life when I was young. right? My mother has a gold tooth.

Speaker 7 My father has a gold tooth. The black men in my life, many of them had a gold tooth.

Speaker 7 Ian Wright's from not far from where I'm from in South london he came into football with an exuberance and an energy when he scored goals there's the iconic bogle dance and those who have jamaican heritage will know the bogul dance that i'm referring to he did things that were disruptive to to the game he came in and he was seen as quite brash and i think for him to deliver this uh it was a speech on that podcast no one can deliver that better than him because he was that guy

Speaker 7 Ian Wright,

Speaker 7 he mentioned the Pogba and the Canter comparison, which I thought was perfect. I've also made that comparison for years.
In this country, we don't like people who are confident.

Speaker 7 We don't like people who are even arrogant. We like people who kind of know their role.

Speaker 7 And Kante, I don't think it was shade on Ngole Kante, but Kante as a black man is seen as the acceptable black man, humble, smiles, gets on with it, cracks on, no trouble, no drama, happy days.

Speaker 7 Whereas the Pogba or Bellingham, and there are other figures, I think, in popular culture and sport that I think that this country struggles with. They don't accept those.
Know your role.

Speaker 7 Get back in your box. Just kick a ball and crack on with it.
And it's something that all black people understand and identify with.

Speaker 7 And I think it's important also to note that I've heard this phrase: some sections of the media are pitching pushing this narrative. It's not.
It's one journalist and it's one paper doing it

Speaker 7 at this stage. And Ian Wright named the guy without naming him.
I won't name him, but we know we're talking about.

Speaker 7 And I think as black people hearing what Ian Wright said on that podcast, we all resonate because we all know that we're not fully accepted in this country and as the way we are we can't be our authentic and ourselves and if you are dude bellingham you are confident you are talented you've won la liga you've won the champions league you've won player of the year in germany at the age of 12 or wherever it was he comes with all these amazing things he's scoring bicycle kicks what at euros to save england from getting knocked out at two euros in the round of 16.

Speaker 7 all these things are great and people can't handle that it's a black man doing it. People often compare, oh yeah, but Beckham, but Gascoigne, oh, but Rooney.

Speaker 7 But the difference between those guys that got heat from the media and Bellingham, Max, is that those individuals did things that to some degree warranted a response. One of those players got...

Speaker 7 sent off for petulance at a World Cup.

Speaker 7 One of those players was shatting down the barrel of an ITV camera after a game, you know, berating the nation for the lack of support and was doing things off the field which were not particularly appropriate.

Speaker 7 One of those guys was going to major tournaments, you know, getting pissed up. Bellingham's done none of that.

Speaker 7 So you have to deduce from the writings of this particular journalist that there's an agenda, that there's an agenda against this particular individual. And Ian Wright's called it out.

Speaker 7 And I'm glad that he did because it's not acceptable. But as black people, we understand

Speaker 7 there's a way to be in this country.

Speaker 7 There's a wider discourse around what it means to be English in this country, what it means to be British in this country, and who's accepted and who's not, who's allowed to have a white voice and who's allowed to, you know, enjoy the merits and

Speaker 7 the great things about being in this country and who's not. And that might feel like it's going beyond football, but I think what's happening to Dewe Bellingham isn't about football.

Speaker 7 It's about the agenda that we feel some people have against black men in particular in this country. And it's not cool.

Speaker 1 Sure, that's so interesting. No, it's so interesting.
And I agree with you that. I mean, I love Righty and I think he's such a brilliant broadcaster.
I know him a tiny bit and he's a wonderful book.

Speaker 1 But when he talks, you definitely listen.

Speaker 1 and this isn't a kind of devil's advocate thing at all but what's important is you you need to be you know you as as part of the media we need to be able to criticize dude bellingham as the way as we would criticize anybody right because because i i don't think he's been brilliant for england yet he didn't score that amazing overhead kick so you need to have you need to be able to do that i suppose no one's saying you can't do that but that is an that is an interesting part of this discussion i guess or they're two or you see they're two separate things what what the irony is is that i think there's a genuine discussion discussion around whether Jude Bellingham should be in the England 11.

Speaker 7 I think there's a footballing discussion around that because I think for the brilliant player that he is

Speaker 7 I think that positionally he can be quite ill-disciplined.

Speaker 7 And in a system that Southgate and Nautukul have, I think it must be quite annoying if you're Bakaya Saka with the ball and Drew Bellingham is left back or you're Declan Rice looking to punch the ball into them into your number 10 and Drew Bellingham is, I don't know, you know, getting the ball from or behind you.

Speaker 7 I think at times the Euros, Euros, he was all over the place. And it's because he's so good.
He knows he can get the ball from. We've all been at school, right?

Speaker 7 With that guy at school that can get the ball from the keeper, beat four players and score a goal. That's Drew Bellingham.
But in a system, I'm not sure that that necessarily works.

Speaker 7 So there's a fair debate to be had around whether Drew Bellingham in this 11 actually is a net positive for England. But that in the writings of this journalist aren't coming through.

Speaker 7 What I'm reading is, oh,

Speaker 7 he's problematic. He's trouble.
He's not liked. It's like none of that stuff is being stood up.
It's not being stood up.

Speaker 7 And you can't deduce anything else other than you're picking on this particular person because you have an issue with this individual being so good, being so influential, being so confident, being himself and English.

Speaker 7 And that for me is, I think, the essence of what Ian Wright was saying. He said, he said to, he messaged you, Bellingham, and said, get ready.
And again, as black people, we know what he means.

Speaker 7 We know what's coming. We know what's coming.
As the media, though, I think we have to challenge that.

Speaker 7 This journalist is entitled. Sorry, my last point.
This journalist is entitled to his view. He's allowed to write what he wants.
That's fair enough.

Speaker 7 But I think we're allowed to call it out and recognize with history of Raheem Sterling, Ian Wright, Paul Pogba, other black players, there's something going on here that isn't football related.

Speaker 1 All right, that'll do for part two. Part three, we'll rattle through the rest of the Premier League games.

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Speaker 9 Hi folks, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

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Speaker 1 Welcome to Part 3 of the Guardian Football Weekly. Crystal Palace won 2-0 at Wolves, so no new manager bounce for Rob Edwards.
Jeremy Pino and Adam Wharton were both so good at this game, Mark.

Speaker 3 They were. Yeah, I knew you were going to mention Adam Wharton.
Max, he's just the way he zips the ball.

Speaker 1 It's the pass before the pass.

Speaker 1 Honestly, I'm pressing this big Adam Wharton button. He's so good.

Speaker 3 I was with a Crystal Palace fan last week, and I just questioned, and it wasn't my agenda to push, but

Speaker 3 the belief is that maybe lacks the athleticism to get around the pitch. Um, and that's maybe why, kind of, you know, Tuchel's not a massive fan, and why maybe he's still at Crystal Palace.

Speaker 3 Um, and then for one of the goals there, he does zip in and win the ball and show that he's capable of doing that. Um, he is a wonderful player, you know, Crystal Palace are lucky to have him.

Speaker 3 Um, and yeah, I mean, Pinot has come in, hasn't played every match, but I think he's looked dangerous when he when he has been on the pitch.

Speaker 3 And like, Crystal Palace, I think, are just legitimately a very good team. um and like they would be in this conversation i think for like top

Speaker 3 it might be top five i but the the problem will be just squad depth but their 11 when it's on the pitch um is just very very good and i did see rob edwards say that this was like a close game but i mean wolves have one shot on target in in the 90 minutes and it didn't look that close to me i didn't think yeah rob edwards says i know we've lost and everyone will be flattened by it but i've been here five or six days and i haven't got a magic wand and i did say this to you yesterday Barry but I wish he'd said but I do have a magic wand and then tried some magic

Speaker 4 I do have a magic wand I left it in Middlesbrough but it is being

Speaker 4 UPS down

Speaker 1 I should have it by the next game yeah I mean Wolves Eye if they get out of this it'll be absolutely extraordinary Bournemouth 2 West Ham 2 you know Bournemouth and Brighton the weather it's like horizontal rate looked so sad didn't it um it's worth saying Barry Callum Wilson those two finishes are absolute top level aren't they brilliant the way he chessed the ball down for both of them and sort of turned on a proverbial sixpence to to score really good goals from him i mean when west ham signed him i thought

Speaker 4 he's sort of in that bamford

Speaker 4 wilson calvert lewin zone of being quite good but not very good and fairly unreliable but he I think he's on performance-related pay at West Ham, so he certainly earned whatever he got for that performance.

Speaker 4 I hope he got plenty. Uh,

Speaker 4 I would, if I was a West Ham fan, I wouldn't really know what to make of this result. It's a good point away from home with Bournemouth, but they were a 2-0 up.

Speaker 4 They sat back,

Speaker 4 uh, very cautious approach in the second half, conceded to, and were ultimately very lucky not to lose. Because if it hadn't been for the heroics of Alphonse Fabianski,

Speaker 4 they would definitely have lost. And yeah, so I would say, having had a couple of days to think about it, West Ham fans are probably say good point.

Speaker 1 Jordan, Iraela wanted a penalty, wanted a red card for that Max Kuhlman handball. And I mean, I think he has a point.

Speaker 1 As a handball denier, myself, and not wanting any of his penalized, if you slide across the pitch and then just twat it with your hand, I think fair enough, that is a penalty and probably a red.

Speaker 7 I think so too. I think he's right in calling for that.
And again, I think the decision we referred to earlier in the runner pod, this was another really, really bad one. It's quite an obvious one.

Speaker 7 I don't understand how such obvious decisions are

Speaker 7 getting, they're getting them wrong.

Speaker 7 And the only thing I want to say about Ariolo on this one is that, and I've kind of got a bit of a manager theme, I've realised on this podcast here today, but he's in that, he's having a really difficult run of form, to be fair.

Speaker 7 But I think everybody rates him quite highly.

Speaker 7 But where does he go next because you look at the thomas frank and those are guys that have made that jump up do we think that areola is really really good at that level but if he was to go to a liverpool next year say or a chelsea that he would struggle i can't quite place i really rate him but i i don't know if it translates i know barry you're a fan of areola as well do you think he has it in him to at a top six club do well i very much think he's a spurs manager in waiting well that'll ruin him i

Speaker 4 I think he could whip them into shape. So I'd like, I mean, I'm a big Thomas Frank fan, but if Frank did

Speaker 4 get his cards, then I would like to see Ireola get that job just to see how it would break him.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 3 I think it is interesting that because I think like Manchester City, if Pat Guardiola decides enough enough, Irreola would be, I think, really suited to that Man City job just stylistically.

Speaker 3 But I think when you are a manager that's managed at that level, like if Man City draws against West Ham, it might be leading the podcast, and there's sort of 20 minutes going on about how Ireola's not up to the task of managing Manchester City and, you know, he's flawed what he's trying to do.

Speaker 3 And yet, because it's at Bournemouth, and I know they've got different resources, but every bad result, like, it's just forgotten about.

Speaker 3 Unless you support Bournemouth and kind of are really involved at kind of a local level, you just don't care and just move on.

Speaker 3 Whereas it's completely different when you're at a liverpool city and you drop any points it's it's always a disaster

Speaker 1 yeah i mean i like the fact that you think this podcast has the power to set the agenda as we do you know thomas frank be packing away his things already won't he um uh to the amex brian beat brentford 2-1 i think those two penalties are interesting barry in the eagle tiago

Speaker 1 when you do a stutter And then you send the keeper the wrong way, it looks really good.

Speaker 1 But if you do a stutter and then you just kick it to the keeper, you're just like, is your stutter, are you stuttering because you have a stutter?

Speaker 1 What's the stutter about here? If you understand the question.

Speaker 4 Are you saying Igor Tiago is a scat man? He stutters when he sings. Basically.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 I do know Keith Andrews afterwards was complaining about the amount of time it takes to take a penalty, you know, with all the faffing around. And maybe he has a point.

Speaker 4 But then isn't Keith Andrews the coach who recently decided to make multiple substitutions between the penalty being awarded to a rival team and that penalty being taken so you know

Speaker 4 either shit or get off the pot Keith I can't remember the game in question but I do remember Keith Andrews doing that and I think oh that was clever and I'm fairly certain it was him but

Speaker 4 look sometimes you miss penalties and that was a costly one it was yeah a wonderful goal from Danny Welbeck.

Speaker 1 The ball from Minter who is a really exciting player was great in the finish.

Speaker 4 Brilliant cross.

Speaker 1 Absolutely, absolutely perfect to get him on the plane.

Speaker 1 Finally Fulham won Sunderland 0. What do you make of this Baz?

Speaker 4 Very little. I saw it in its entirety.
Another

Speaker 4 just rain.

Speaker 4 That's my overriding.

Speaker 4 Rain, rain, rain. Miserable day beside the Thames.

Speaker 4 What a game that was very low on quality. Neither team was anywhere near their best.
And Fulham nicked it towards the end with another brilliant cross from Chuck Guisey.

Speaker 4 And Raul Jimenez was on hand to stab the ball home.

Speaker 4 Fulham probably deserved it.

Speaker 4 No complaints here.

Speaker 1 Before we wrap up, I did say we were going to talk about the World Cup draw.

Speaker 1 We haven't really given it a lot of time, but we said it before, Barry, but Ireland, we will obviously do it in the international break, and it'll be a big one. But Ireland could face Denmark.

Speaker 4 Well, I did say in the last pod that Ireland, you know, just there is a parallel universe where Ireland are just constantly playing Denmark. And then I checked.

Speaker 4 Ireland haven't played Denmark for six years.

Speaker 4 Maybe it wasn't the last time.

Speaker 1 Focused, Barry, was 30 years ago.

Speaker 4 It was around about between 2017-19 where they played each other twice a week, and all the games ended in draws. Ireland have a job of work to do in

Speaker 4 Czech Republic first before we could even think about

Speaker 4 playing Denmark or who is in North Macedonia?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 4 And we have previous with Macedonia as well.

Speaker 4 They've caused us pain in the past. So if we do see off the Czech Republic, we'll be playing one of two bogey teams.
But then when you're a team like Ireland, you tend to have a lot of bogey teams.

Speaker 1 Wales have to get past Bosnia-Herzegovina and then they will play the winners of Italy or Northern Ireland. So not an easy way to get to the World Cup.
Anyway, that is for March.

Speaker 1 We can worry about that later. And that'll do for today.
Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jordan.
Cheers, mate. Congratulations on the title.
Thank you, Mark. Thanks, Max.
Commiserations for everything.

Speaker 4 Thank you, Barry. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Keep on running. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove and Jesse Howard.
Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We'll be back on Wednesday.

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.

Speaker 9 Hi, folks, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

Speaker 9 You know, whether you are doing traditional Thanksgiving, a friend's giving, or something in between, Whole Foods Market has great everyday prices on all the things you need for Thanksgiving.

Speaker 9 No way antibiotics ever birds bring quality to your table at a great price. You can enjoy so many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market.

Speaker 9 And remember, Prime gives you shop online and delivery or pickup as you like.